The Brotherhood Blueprint: 10 Critical Changes

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
you've reached the internet's home for all things
masonry.
Join on the level podcast as weplumb the depths of our ancient
craft and try to unlock themysteries, dispel the fallacies
and utilize the teachings offreemasonry to unlock the
greatness within each of us.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
I have you now, let's go.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Hi, ladies, children.

(01:03):
Thank you, children.
That was nice.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
I saw the post on the level page, see, that's what
you get for giving me access tothe Facebook page Because you
have another profile picture.
I was gonna throw up, not throwup, but we're live streaming,
by the way.
Yeah, we are live streaming.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Jasmine Gerbic.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Jasmine Gerbicic is that how you pronounce that?
The man, the myth, the legend.
He is my favorite bosnian.
Yeah, so jasmine is um,jasmine's got fire in his blood
and I absolutely love it becausewe're so similar in how we view
a lot of things.
Um, it's just that he's gotlike the muscular density to be
a little more aggressive aboutit um yes and I don't have that

(01:45):
yet.
I'm working on it.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
I'm working on it you've got the attitude and I, I
would argue the attitude can gofurther than the muscles I've,
I've got the attitude, um yeah,but you know, jasmine's just
just stacked.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
He's a savage.
We got worse for ryan on here,um you know on the live chat.
So from what lodge?
Lakelandland Lodge 91.
All three of you are fromLakeland Lodge.
Yep yep, so Lakeland Lodgerepresent.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Wow, how many people do we have here?
I don't know if you know thisyet about Matt, but you're going
to want to, like, put a lock onyour charter.
He has a habit of havingcharters, yes, so you want to
keep yours far from him, pleaseplease bring her to lodges.
Oh my goodness spend my timeand money on them and they will

(02:31):
be pulled away forever exactly,exactly so.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Uh, chris, I'm sure we're going to get into it at
some point, but the the fans aredying to know.
Uh, you had a trial yesterday,so could, could you give us a
30,000 foot view?
What are the results?
What are we?

Speaker 1 (02:46):
thinking.
I would say my advice to you isdon't get into a Masonic trial.
If you can avoid it, don't getinto one.
That would be my advice.
It doesn't end well for anybodyand yeah, I see why.
There was a lot of interestingthings that happened in the
trial.
The end result was my trialcommittee found me guilty and

(03:10):
they gave me the penalty ofwritten reprimand.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
My goodness, you got a reprimand when others have
been expelled.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yes, Well, we'll see.
We'll see.
That was what the trialcommittee has given me.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Right.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
And everyone was celebrating that as a win.
We'll see.
That's all I got.
I'm still a Mason today, and Ididn't think I would be so it's
a good day for me.
I'm almost as happy as you are,although probably not.
You seem extremely happy today.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
I'm extremely happy today, although probably not,
you seem extremely happy today.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
I'm extremely happy today.
Oh, I'm very happy today.
I've never seen you this happy.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
It's a disturbing thing.
Give me a little time today,when justice is doled out,
especially whenever you've hadpeople and this has nothing to
do with Freemasonry, by the waybut whenever you have people who
have spoken out against you soadamantly and vehemently against
you, and then all of a suddensome big scandal of theirs come
out.
Oh, it's so good and I'm likeif you'd have listened to me two

(04:11):
years ago, we wouldn't have hadthis problem, my guy so for the
record you're.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
You're not talking about anything that happened in
masonry.
There's nothing masonicwhatsoever, because you said it
right after my trial and I justwant to be clear.
No, you're talking about yourown stuff, separate from my
stuff.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
I am talking.
So here's what I've learned andhere's what I don't like.
So I'm a big fan of justice.
So whenever justice is doledout, it's like, oh, it's so
sweet when it happens because Itry so hard and I know a lot of
us do but I try so hard to bestraight edge, to be upright in
all my interactions with man andmasons.

(04:49):
I mean it's I really try mybest to be an honest person and
I realized a liar would say thatexact same thing.
They would.
But, and they do, you know, I Itry my best to be, you know
again, up front with everybody,and even still like I'll take
the back seat on something ifit's what's good for the whole,
uh, as my archetype woulddictate.
You know, we had that, we hadthat uh episode a few weeks ago,

(05:09):
so our last week.
So, but when something happensand justice comes out and
justice is served, oh it's abeautiful thing for me it is.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
It's such a beautiful thing to see justice happening
oh, it's delicious I do want tosay I, although I can't really
give any specifics about my, Ido want to say that my
co-counsels that in the trialroom with me were most worthful.
Glenn bishop and right versewill joke to ladies oh and um, I
lost my wallet, like I wastelling you before we started

(05:40):
recording right.
I was literally destitute anddesperate and Glenn not only
helped me in my trial, he droveme to the airport personally.
He gave up lunch with a lot ofpeople that wanted to have lunch
with him, because he wanted tomake sure I got on that plane.
He stopped to get cash so thatI could eat, because he knew I

(06:04):
hadn't eaten in an entire daybecause I had no money.
So he gave me cash.
He drove me to the airport.
Glenn Bishop is a hero.
What a good man, right mygoodness, personally, he took me
right up to the door and madesure I walked in.
He followed up with me to makesure I went to TSA.
Okay, because that was a wholefiasco.
So Glenn Bishop is the man.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Man alive, shout out to most worshiping.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
Glenn.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Bishop, good man, good man, good Mason.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Now, today, the topic of the podcast is the top 10
things you need to fix beforebringing New Brothers into your
lives.
Yes, because everyone thinksthe problem is we need more
members.
Right, we need more members, weneed more members.
And you'll hear some people saywe need active members or we

(06:53):
need, like, good members.
Um, I'm, what we want to talkabout today is, let's roll it
back a little.
We, we do all need members inone way, shape or form right,
but realistically like, in orderto keep those guys and to not
tarnish the fraternity'sreputation to people that come
into the fraternity.
What?

(07:13):
What are the top 10 things youcan do to prepare your, your
lodge and yourself to receivethose new nations?

Speaker 2 (07:19):
don't let dummies through the west gate.
It's super simple.
It's so, so easy.
So I've said this on thepodcast before and he just put
it in the live chat as well.
But Worshipful Jasmine has aphrase and I love this phrase.
I absolutely love it.
We were doing an investigationon two NPD brothers and the
thing that came out of some ofthose conversations is

(07:41):
Worshipful Jasmine goes we don'tneed more members of the lodge,
we have plenty of those.
We have over 200 members atLakeland 91, but we need our
masons.
This lodge is headed in aparticular direction, and this
particular direction is that weare building the lodge.
We need people that are working.
Worshipful Ryan, he's in thechat as well.
Worshipful Ryan came out andsaid look, many hands make for

(08:03):
light work.
We don't need more mason.
We don't need more ringknockers.
That is not what we need.
What we need are masons, and Ifull-heartedly agree with that.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
That bears the question what is a mason?
Ooh, what is a mason?
I think we could probably do awhole podcast on what is a mason
.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
We probably could.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
You know, a lot of Masons probably can't even agree
on a definition of that, whichis crazy.
Crazy to think about that.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
So I would argue, and I agree with you.
We could probably do a wholeepisode on this, but I would
argue a person who is a Mason isone who actively implements the
teachings.
If you actively implement theteachings, you're not sitting on
the sidelines, you're not juststanding up being a disruptor.
If you're actively implementingthe teachings of masonry and
you're using all of your workingtools, then that's going to

(08:59):
compel you and I'm the same wayin church as well.
If you are a follower of Christ, it is going to compel you to
do certain things.
If you are a Mason who isimplementing the teachings of
Masonry, it's going to compelyou to do certain things.
If you do not do those things,you didn't implement the
teachings properly, right?

Speaker 1 (09:17):
I used to say that a lot about toxic masculinity.
There's no such thing as toxicmasculinity.
If it's toxic, it's notmasculine.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yep, that is a statement.
I will die on that hill, yeahyeah, there's no such thing as
toxic masculinity, but there issuch a thing as the absence of
masculinity, and that's whereyou see problems.
Isn't that the opposite of thatfemininity?
No, I wouldn't say femininityis the opposite of masculinity.

(09:47):
But if you but havingmasculinity or masculine nature,
um, you know, being uh, what'sthe word I'm looking for?
Uh, being more, um mature inhow you handle, you know
conflict and how you handlesituations.
Uh, yeah, sorry, like as a manbeing more mature, yeah being a
little more stoic, being able toimplement those things that, in

(10:08):
my opinion, would be thepresence of masculinity.
If you don't have thosefeatures, then a male failed you
somewhere along in your life.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
We do have a comment from Jasmine A mason.
Definition of a mason is thatto to him it's at least trying
his best, being active in lodge,making grounds for future
masons to have an active lodge.
I agree, I can get on boardwith that, I agree.
The key thing there for me is,um, what really differentiates

(10:38):
us, at the end of the day, fromthe profane man is that we are
actively trying to do better.
But a lot of masons have thesame issues that the profane
world has.
A lot of them, do you know theydo.
But what makes us different iswe tolerate because we have to
assume that they're trying to dobetter, and that makes things a

(10:59):
little more unbearable, likeyou can put up with it, because
you know they just struggle,they just fell down, but you
know they're trying to do better.
Yeah, and I think when we treateach other that way, it makes
our interactions a little easier.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Well, and again, that's if they are implementing
those teachings and lessons.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
So that's because otherwise you're just protein.
You just right.
You just got a name because youpaid your dues right you're
not're not a real Mason.
Otherwise, if you're a mino,you're a Mason in name always.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, you're a mino, you're a mino.
Yeah, that's better.
Yeah, you're a mino, you're amino yeah.
So, either way, yeah, so ifyou're going to go into Masonry
and you have the intention ofI'm just going to be the same
insufferable prick that I'vealways been, don't go into
masonry, you know, if you, ifyou're going to do that, you're
going to get to go into anysocial circle, I don't care what

(11:48):
it is.
It could be one of the critterclubs, it could be a church, it
could be, I don't care what itis.
But if your thought processgoing into it as a man is, oh,
I'm just going to go into thisand I'm going to achieve, you
know, being able to wear a ring.
You know that the greenlanterns ring here.
Yeah, if you're my power uhyeah yeah I'm gonna.
I'm gonna put a sticker on mycar, I'm gonna get the license

(12:09):
plate, like all those things.
You're not a mason, bro.
I'm sorry, I hate to say it,but you're not.
I mean being a mason, um, that,yeah.
So what would you call describea card carrying member is the
question that jasmine just cameup with your members are called
ring knockers.
So ring knockers are the typesof masons that they aren't being
active in the lodge, theyaren't working on themselves,

(12:30):
they're not trying to chip awayat the edges to be of better use
.
They are people that want todisplay the square and compasses
and that's all they want.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Let me tell you I have brought hundreds of men
into this fraternity over theyears.
Yeah, maybe one of the fewthings I'm good at in life is
actually advertising andbringing men in, and everyone I
personally signed for andbrought in I made sure to
explain to them that we areworking men in Freemasonry and

(13:02):
the work we do is improvingourselves, and that is hard work
to do.
You will be sweating your assoff in the quarry if you're
working hard as a Mason.
Amen.
It's not easy work to try tochange yourself for the better.
Yep, a lot of pain for you.
It's all for you, because youhave reflexes.

(13:22):
You have defenses.
You built up in your lifereactionary defenses to things
that you have to change and youhave to admit there's something
wrong with you which issomething nobody wants to do.
Nobody wants to see their ownflaws and you know identify
issues.
You have because you spent yourwhole life trying to make
yourself believe everyone elsehas the problem it's not you.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
So I, I have a.
I have a different take on thisand um, I've told my wife this
before, um, and she's like matt,you realize how ungodly
arrogant that sounds right.
And I'm like, yes, I do, um,but it's me, so what else do you
expect?
Uh, so one of the things that Ilove is I love being proved
wrong.
I, I love it, I absolutely loveit, because I'm just now one

(14:05):
step closer to being that guyyou can't correct.
I'm just one step closer, right.
So it's proven that I'm wrong insomething and I cannot speak
confidently on it.
And here's the thing Itypically don't speak on
something unless I'm veryconfident on it.
I might get a couple of thedata points wrong.
So when we went over the fourthturning, like, I messed up a
couple of the.
I messed up president's name,um, whenever we went over the,

(14:28):
the christian uh, the top 10things that christians have
issues with I messed up um,something the jews, uh, the jews
call god adonai, um, instead of, you know, yahweh.
So a lot of different names.
Yeah, they had so manydifferent names.
So, either way, it's like fine,if you going to find something
wrong with me, or find somethingwrong that I did good.
Please correct me, because nowI'm just one step closer to

(14:49):
being that grumpy old guy youcan't say anything to.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
And, to be honest with you, like it's like
anything else, the more youpractice that, the better you
get at it.
It gets easier and easier tosay, oh, I was wrong, my bad,
and move on.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, oh I was oh, I was wrong, my bad, and move on.
Yeah, oh, I was wrong.
Oh, thank you for telling methat.
I'm actually really gratefulfor that.
Move on, yeah.
And then, of course, myfavorite thing is especially
whenever we're going over ritual.
If somebody's like, no mad,it's actually this.
And I'm like, actually it's not, because I'm really good at
junior deacon.
Um, it's actually this.
Oh, I'm sorry, I told you thewrong information.
Yeah, yeah, you did.

(15:22):
And there are so many things.
And, brothers, look, here's mythought process on this.
I'm going to let Chris speakfor himself, but if one of these
data points offends you, youmight want to consider that one
a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, exactly that's exactly what we just talked
about.
If you get offended by any oneof these 10 things, you haven't
learned the lessons of masonry.
You shouldn't be mad at us.
You should be looking atyourself.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Because again, it does sound arrogant.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
I just said it and it does sound arrogant, doesn't it
?

Speaker 2 (15:53):
It does, it does.
But, chris, what is it that wehave said time and time again on
this podcast is we're supposedto be chiseling away at all of
these.
Be chiseling away at all ofthese, I, if you're, if you're
upset, um, we're worshipful ride.
Just narrowing it down to only10 is impressive, I agree um
well, if you're impressed, justhold we can.

(16:16):
We're gonna keep impressingyeah, uh, either that or we're
gonna keep really uhdisappointing you all.
Uh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
You should know better.
We are always disappointing.
You Keep coming back, so you'regoing for punishment.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah and again.
Brothers, I want to be clear onthis Whenever we go over these
10 points, if you get offendedby one of these points, I'm just
going to go ahead and give theboomer of apology of I'm sorry
that you're offended.
I love it, I'm a master at it.
So, having said that, the thingis, whenever we have situations

(16:51):
in Lodge, specifically amongstBrother Masons, if we have some
sort of a conflict, so, let'ssay, one of these data points
here today offend you, thisconversation should be able to
be had with guard fully loweredBecause, at the end of the day,
we're all Masons and we're nottrying trying to cause damage to
each other, we're not trying tobe jerks to one another.
We're trying to help sharpeneach other.
We're trying to chisel away atthat stone, so that way we are

(17:11):
of a better fit.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
um so, again, that's hard to do, that's that's
another thing that's hard to dois we oh I'm, I'm just gonna say
it, and he typed it we build,build each other up.
That's right.
You know, it's easy to givesomebody a compliment.
What's hard to do, if youreally care about somebody, is
to tell them you think they justmade a mistake.
Tell them you think they mightbe about to make a mistake.

(17:36):
That's hard to do.
People don't want to makesomeone mad.
They don't want to come off asan argumentative guy.
They don't want to be a jerk.
But you know, if you reallycare about someone, that's how
you help build them up.
You tell them they're making amistake, you give them wise
counsel, you whisper in theirear and give them good guidance
and hopefully they won't makethe mistake.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, yeah.
And again, I mean and it alsogoes back to how you handle the
conversation we covered this onthe last podcast, where you've
got to have some of theseconversations slow and easy,
because if you end up speedingup the conversation, given who
your audience is, if you speedup the conversation to a point
they're going to miss something,it's going to turn into
confusion and then it's going totranslate directly into anger.

(18:19):
So it's best to have theseconversations slow, quiet, calm,
relaxed, relaxed again.
Whenever I get in a conflictwith anybody, my eyebrows don't
even change direction.
The most animated I ever get ison these podcasts.
You'll see me get animated,especially today.
Uh, you're gonna see me getanimated.
Um, you're having a good day.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
I'm having a great day oh, that's such a good day
uh, let's do this 10 things youneed to fix before bringing
brothers into the lodge.
All right, the first thing, thefirst thing that you've got to
fix, is your lodge politics.
Now, I don't know if you have aproblem with this in your lodge

(18:59):
.
If you don't, you will.
If you don't think you will,you have it's.
It's been a problem, it's goingto be a problem as different
people joined, people worktogether.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
A lot of politics is going to be an issue, well, well
, let's let's define lodgepolitics, because it could be
defined as okay, we're talkingrepublican democrat, we're
talking clicks, as if we wouldin high school.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
What are we talking about whenever we say lodge
politics, lots politics meansthe inability for people to act
like masons in a group set.
Anytime that you're not actinglike masons in a group set, you
have let lodge politics enterthe lodge.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
I love it.
So this could be, if I'mhearing you right, this could be
something as simple as hey, wehave an idea that we want to do
and somebody stands up from thecorner and says we tried that 20
years ago.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
It didn't work so it's politics, yeah, that's
lodge politics now you gotta beaware of the politics of your
lot.
Oh so there's a group of peoplethat are gonna just shoot down
every idea because it's alreadybeen tried and like how do I
politically now have to dealwith that group of people?

Speaker 2 (19:59):
you mean it could be something as simple as just
increasing lodge dues.
Is that what you're talkingabout?

Speaker 1 (20:05):
That is definitely going to bring out some heat.
You will never see as many mencome to a lodge meeting as the
meeting where you're going toraise the dues.
They will all come to lodge forthat one.
I've been there in two lodgeswhen they raised the dues and
those are the most contentiousmeetings I have ever been in.
So lodge politics is notnecessarily a bad thing, because

(20:26):
you do have different kinds ofpeople we talked about before
turning right.
Yeah, different communicationstyles.
So there is always going to bedisagreements, different
viewpoints.
That's not bad.
But in how you communicate witheach other, that is the
politics of the watch.
So politics doesn't mean it's adirty word or something bad.

(20:47):
But you need to fix your Lodgepolitics because if they are bad
and you bring a new Mason intoit, that is the quickest way for
them.
Because understand this, whenyou bring a new Mason into the
Lodge, that is the wholethree-masonry to that person for
an extended amount of time.
They have to go through theircatechisms, their three degrees,
at least six months.

(21:08):
We've talked about this andafter they become a master Mason
they're probably not going toget highly involved in the rest
of your district right away.
They're going to be that patchof dirt.
That building is all they knowabout Freemasonry, so you need
to be real careful about whatyou're teaching them masonry is.
And if your politics are bad,meaning you have cliques of

(21:29):
people that don't like eachother, or if your officers
segregate themselves fromeverybody else at dinner and sit
together apart from everybodyelse these are all examples of
the way politics can go wrong ina lot, and it's our opinion
that the first thing you need tofix is those.
If you look seriously, lookaround, think about it and

(21:52):
identify if you have issues withbad and large politics, and if
you do, you need to sit in astate of meeting and have a
conversation as a group todetermine what you can do to fix
that together as brothers, sojust for kicks and giggles.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
Let's kind of unpackage that a little bit,
because I've obviously seenlodge politics at the particular
lodge level.
You know, with Turkey Creek.
I've seen a little bit over atLakeland 91.
It was a big ordeal but itreally wasn't that serious.
But how does that look at aparticular lodge level to have
that conversation?
Because obviously in the lodgepeople are going to get heated.

(22:28):
You're probably going to havesome guy that stands up and he's
going to get a little tooemotional.
Um, you've been the master of alodge, I have not.
So unpackage that for us alittle bit, yeah I'll give you a
great example.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
It starts at the top 100.
This cannot start at the bottom.
It it must start at the top.
So the master is the one thatneeds to drive the change.
Okay, as the master of thelodge from my limited experience
at that, I had a.
I'll tell you an example.
I had requested if there wereanything we could do with our
neighbor lodge that we have afairly bad relationship with.

(23:02):
It's not good, and we're onlylike a mile and a half apart, so
that's not good.
It's ridiculous.
Kind of bad history.
You spent years and years right, so this isn't something I'm
going to fix in my year, sure.
So I thought we could take astep, let's do something
together.
And my lot voted to dosomething with that lot.
And the day that that thinghappened, it was me and like two

(23:25):
or three other people thatshowed up and I was so committed
to this that they wanted tomake it a regular weekly thing
or a monthly thing.
And I said, yeah, let's do it.
And every time it happened, oneless person from my lot would
show up.
It just kept dwindling, but itwas so important to me I kept

(23:46):
showing up and you know theywere getting upset at me for my
lodge not showing up.
I'm kind of upset at my lodge.
So I had a stated meeting andthe education for the meeting
was if we as a lodge commit todo something, we need to do it
or don't commit to it.
It's that simple.

(24:06):
Yeah, if you're in lodge thatnight and you raised your hand
because you wanted to dosomething, that means you need
to go do that thing.
You can't commit the lodge tosomething and then not
participate in it.
Come on, man.
And so I admitted like, look, Iwanted this to happen really bad
, and I should have let it go,and I see that we weren't
committed to it.
But we need to have aconversation as a lot about what

(24:28):
we commit ourselves to.
Let's not just vote for thingsbecause it sounds good.
Let's think about if I raise myhand, can I make it that day?
Will I be free that day?
And if I'm not, I shouldn'traise my hand.
Yeah Right, that's kind of tome how I like to deal with a lot
of politics Put it out in theopen, don't put the blame, don't
start pointing the finger.

(24:49):
Obviously, this is our problem,this is something we got to
talk about together, and whenyou put it in that kind of a
framework, it's a little biteasier to address things without
.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
So you just brought up a really good point and we've
talked about it in our officerschat.
So you just brought up a reallygood point and we've talked
about it in our officers chatand, Ryan, you've already heard
this before.
But so we were talking abouthow that it needs to be a lodge
thing.
It can't be a singularindividual thing.
So, for example, we went andvisited another lodge.
Our entire officer line wentand visited another lodge.
Their ritual and opening andclosing was so bad it was

(25:22):
terrible.
I don't think anybody got it.
You know, got their role 100%correct.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Who was the one?
Just name the people.
I'm not going to do that at all.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
No.
So either way, yeah, so we gothere, we see it.
It was just absolutely terrible.
And so I had mentioned to Ryan.
I said, hey, what if we were toinvite that lodge to our
training nights, specificallythis one guy who really kind of
botched his role?
And then of course I'm seeingritual happen throughout the

(25:53):
rest of it and I'm like, hey,guys, maybe we should invite the
entire lodge and not just thatone guy.
That wasn't me being ugly orbeing mean or anything like that
, but you know, whenever we seean issue in a lodge or you know
even more broad spectrum, 30,000foot view and you see something
bad happen in masonry, what'stypically said is it's that
whole lodge, not that one person, it's that whole lodge has this

(26:15):
issue, or masonry as a wholehas this issue.
We never really whittle it downto the one individual person
that has the issue.
It's representative of thecraft as a whole.
So I totally agree with whatyou said is this has to be a we
thing, it has to be an us thing,it's not a me thing, it's a
craft at whole thing.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
So I'll give you one piece of advice that did work
for me and it might work for you.
We were using electronic trustreports, so if you use one of
those, you have a list of emailsfor all of your members.
We said a google doc.
It was a google form and it wasa questionnaire about what is
the reason you don't come towatch oh, I bet you got like

(26:59):
maybe 10 percent of them youidentify.
That is a negative thought aboutfreemasonry in your head.
Like we ask those kind ofquestions to every member of our
lodge, we made it anonymous sowe don't know who said what the
thing is.
If you just rely on theofficers, you have a very
limited history of the lodge,very limited experience in the

(27:20):
lodge in most cases.
But when you put it out toeverybody now these might be
members that have been there inyour lodge for 40, 50 years.
You're going to get someinteresting answers.
You know you've got to take somehelp with a grain of salt, but
when you start to see patterns,this is a clear identifier that
you have some issues with yourlodge that you need to get
addressed.

(27:40):
So that's one way that workedfor me.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
It identified things that we need to fix.
So Jasmine just commented andyeah, brothers, definitely if
you're a past master or you'resomeone who is a master of a
lodge and you have some stuff toadd to the conversation here,
put them in the chat.
We're happy to read them.
So Jasmine just sent back orsent in.
Let me share what I found.
I am a very good listener andthrough the years I heard the

(28:06):
same issues over and over againwe don't do anything together as
a lodge, we don't go anywhere,we don't do charities.
We did all those things andthen yet the same people were
present None of those that werecomplaining.
So, for context, what he'stalking about is about lodge
visits and I could be wrong onthis.
I um is is about lodge visitsand and I I could be wrong on

(28:27):
this I'm still relatively new touh lakeland lodge 91, but I'm
like jasmine, I just listen topeople.
You know everybody tells unclematt everything.
So we have, uh, some of theguys who were wanting to see
things done.
Actually, this happenedrecently in a meeting where one
of the uh brothers, who a pastmaster, who really doesn't do a
tremendous amount even though heis very knowledgeable and he's
very effective, he doesn'treally do a whole heck of a lot.

(28:49):
And so he stood up and saidwell, what if we had the lodge
pay for this thing to be done?
And jasmine was, I mean, upright behind him and he said
good, I hope you contribute yourown money to that and that way
it doesn't come out of the lodgecoffers.
Um, something I agree about,because in lodges across the
state and across the country I'msure you're going to have those
that are doing financiallyincredibly well, like a friend

(29:11):
of ours in another state.
His lodge has a larger bankrollthan what their grand lodge
does, and that's an awesomefeature to have, and that's just
that's an awesome feature tohave.
But you have the opposite, Iwould argue, is the more, the
more present situation or themore reality for other lodges
that their bank account isn'tdoing that well and so they

(29:34):
still have the WorshipfulMaster's meal you know, for
whenever he's installed theystill have that come out of the
lodge.
Any sort of lodge upgrades oranything like that, it still
comes out of the lodge.
But yet whenever you talk aboutlodge, you know dues increase
to try to make up for some ofthat financial deficit.
Everybody comes out of thewoodwork and says, no, yeah, of
course you know it's like okay,guys, you need to pick a lane

(29:55):
here.
Either, you know, because youdon't have unlimited funds in a
lodge, we need to find a way togain more money, and it's either
going to be by fundraising,which we do, uh, or it's going
to be by lodge due increases, um.
So those are going to kind ofbe the the.
The big sticking points thatyou're going to see is, again,
everybody's going to come out ofthe woodwork, but yeah, um we
hope that helps with the firstone.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
You got to fix your life politics.
You know what we're talkingabout.
Yeah, take the effort to try toidentify what you don't know.
Try to fix what you can.
At least try to take some stepsto making it better before you
bring in new people Right?
Number two and I know you'llagree with me on this one you
got to fix the lodge building.

(30:36):
Yes, you don't want to bringpeople into a building that
smells like butt and toenails.
Okay, there shouldn't be moldon the ceiling and in the walls,
Like.
I understand that not a lot oflodges have a lot of money.

(30:56):
I understand that.
So you might not be able to geta new roof or a remodel done on
your kitchen.
I get that.
But you can clean it up right.
You can make it smell nice.
You can put a fresh coat ofpaint on things.
You can pay some attention toyour life Building.
Keep it clean outside.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Make it seem like you really care about this building
and, honestly, some of thethings are so simple and I
realize we're dealing with somegenerational differences here.
So whenever we're talking aboutupgrading the lodge, it could
be something as simple as lights.
It could be something as simpleas okay, we need to clean the
carpet in our lodge room.
That's one thing that we'retalking about doing.
Next is cleaning our carpet.
I've got something that canclean carpet.

(31:35):
That's going to be a Saturdayworth of work and some fans.
That's about it.
You know so-.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
There are very cheap, almost free things you can do
to fix up your lodge withoutmoney and all it takes is your
attention and your focus.
Right, you guys need to sit andtalk about what can we get done
before we start bringingmembers in to make our lodge
better.
And, of course, maybe you havean awesome lodge and it needs no
work and congratulations.

(32:00):
If that's the case, just don'tlisten to us.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
This is meant for everybody else, the 99% that are
in a lodge that has somethingthat needs work done to it,
which even still, we even talkedabout that over at Turkey Creek
and I know I bring up TurkeyCreek a lot, but it's my home.
I mean, you know now, of course, lakeland 91 is my home, those
are my boys, but you know, thatwas the place that I was raised.
And one of the things that gotme about Turkey Creek this drove

(32:23):
me nuts, oh, it drove me crazyIs there were people that will
leave in their own personalclothes at the lodge.
You have a closet at home, useit.
You don't need to leave yourpersonal clothes at the lodge.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Or there's this, or if they're doing that like
identify a space for that.
That's like you know everybody.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
No, keep your nasty, ratty clothes at home.
You disgusting filthy animals.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
See why launch charters get pulled.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
You see but honestly, I mean, we had that over at
Turkey Creek where it's like youknow, we had Plant City, york
right there we had, and they hadall their stuff.
We had an Eastern Star thereand they had all their stuff.
So it's like we had to get ridof a lot of the junk that they
weren't using and I'm like getrid of it.
It's okay to part with a fewthings.
It's okay yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Lodge cleanup days go far.
Do it once a quarter at least.
Yeah, you know, make breakfastfor the guys that show up to do
lodge cleanup, like give them areason to be there, take photos,
let the people love to be, toget a little phrase.
They come and put them online.
Everybody's working hard in thelodge.
Tag them.
Be like hey, these are all thebrothers that showed up to help
today.
Yeah, it costs nothing.

(33:32):
Really, the only currency wehave to trade in our fraternity
is Pat on the Back, so youshould use it more often.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Well, time, I mean.
You hear people that are highperformers.
They talk about how theircurrency at some point in their
life is time.
I could be spending my timewith my family.
I could be spending my time inmy usual vocation personal money

(34:02):
into name it, upgrading thelights.
Okay, so we have like thisgiant, like gosh, it's probably
like almost a four foot by fourfoot Ashlar, uh, that's right.
Whenever you walk in the frontdoor at Lakeland Lodge, uh, but
up around it, uh, there's,there's lights that are up there
, or there are lights that areup there that are all starting
to go out and they flicker andall kinds of stuff.
It's like, okay, if I take athousand dollars, my personal

(34:23):
money, and I put it in just anupgrade in the lights, one, I,
I'm the type of person that Idon't need any praise for that.
Right, I know that I did that.
I know that I did somethinggood.
That's all I really care about.
I'm moving the entireorganization forward.
That's what I want.
But it goes a long way.
Just the word Thank you.
The word thank you goes a heckof a long way, especially like

(34:44):
that recognition that you weretalking about.
We, as men, we need shockinglylittle.
I don't need somebody to sitthere and sing my praises every
time we're at Lodge, but asimple thank you goes a long way
.
Just acknowledging that thatburden was handled and taken
care of and carried by somebodyNailed it.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
So fix your Lodge politics, fix lodge building.
Be seen, basically not for you.
Number three, and this is animportant one, your lodge needs
to have a five-year plan.
Could?

Speaker 2 (35:15):
I argue for an eight-year plan A minimum of
five-year plan.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
There's some problems with this because in
Freemasonry things change fast.
People leave in the middle ofthe year, hurricanes come and
destroy things.
Lawsuits can happen to yourlodge if someone falls.
There are things you can't planfor that are going to derail
your plan, but you're guaranteedto fail if you don't have a

(35:42):
plan.
So make a minimum five-year plan.
And I'm not talking about theofficers.
Sit in a room over pizza andmake a plan for the next five
years of your lodge.
I'm talking about pull yourentire lodge, ask them to show
up to open meetings.
You need to get the buy-in ofyour lodge on the direction that
you're going to go in.

(36:03):
And what's important for you tofix over the next five years and
here's another argument thatyou're going to get with the
five-year plan is well, I'mgoing to be master of my lodge
and I want it to be my year.
I want to focus on things thatare important to me.
You have no business being themaster of a lodge.
If you think that wayPersonally, that's how I feel

(36:24):
it's not your year.
You're the master of the lodge.
If you think that way,personally, that's how I feel
it's not your year.
You're the master of the lodgefor the year, but it's not your
year.
It's the lodge's year.
You just happen to be presidingover it.
So you know so many people thatI've worked with as officers in
the line spend so much timeplanning for the things they're
going to do in their year.

(36:44):
You should be doing thosethings while you're junior
deacon, when you're the seniordeacon, when you're the junior
ward, get them done.
Help that master, get it done,because when it's your year, you
should just be sitting therechilling and doing whatever the
launch wants to be done thatyear.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
I'm going to slightly disagree, yeah let's do it.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Here we go and doing whatever the launch wants to be
done that year.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
I'm going to slightly disagree and this may be a
point of ignorance on my part,to be fair, because I have not
been a worshipful master.
So let me give you some context.
The context being is and we'vetalked about it here on the show
before is that whenever Ijoined Lakeland 91, before I
ever joined Lakeland 91,actually I hadn't even filled
out a petition yet I was talkingto Jasmine about the line, the

(37:28):
line over at Lakeland, and oneof the things that he mentioned
is that the entire line has theexact same mentality and whoever
is sitting in the East isactively setting things up for
whoever the next year is and thesubsequent years.
One of the things that I reallyliked about what that Jasmine
had said and Ryan's of the samementality is that, oh, whenever

(37:50):
the junior deacon gets to theeast, it'll be in this position,
or whenever the senior deacongets here, it'll be in this
place.
So I'm of the opinion that yourjob as worshipful master isn't
necessarily to sit back and justrelax.
You should be delegating thingsyou know and setting things up
for all right.
What does the senior wardenwant in his year?

(38:12):
What can I do in order to getit to where it's easier for him
to do those things, or what'sthe junior warden want two years
from now?
What is the junior warden goingto want to do in his year?
And so that way we can set itup, so that way it's an easier
process for him to get that done.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
So here's my counter to your argument Do it.
If the junior deacon hassomething he wants done in his
year, why?
Why can't it be done right now?
Why does it need to be done in?

Speaker 2 (38:37):
his year.
So the only thing that I couldsee that would stop the junior
deacon from doing that Is one,if you don't have enough buy-in
From the craft, or two, if youdon't have the funding for it.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
Both things that you can fix, from the junior eating
chair, how you stand up in openlodge and you make the case of
the craft, why it's important toget it done.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
And you, you call for a vote to do it.
So so for, for example, one ofthe things that I hope to start
talking about probably in thenext couple of months I'm going
to start talking to Lakelandabout it is the grand lodge
reimbursement program.
We do pretty decent with ourrecruitment right now.
You know, of course, as I'vetold you before, we make them

(39:18):
come to a certain amount ofmeals and come and speak to us
and get to know us a little bitbefore we ever hand you a
petition, and that does a lot ofgood of weeding out.
That does a lot of good ofweeding out the people who
aren't very serious about it.
That does a lot of good atweeding out the people who
aren't very serious about it.
You know I'm not saying thatevery lodge should do that, but
the Grand Lodge ReimbursementProgram is going to be something
that's going to be aninteresting conversation because

(39:38):
we've never done it before.
Lakeland really hasn't had aneed to do it before.
So could we?
Yeah, we absolutely could.
I could stand up from the west,from the junior deacon chair,
and say, hey, the way, I thinkwe should absolutely do this
thing.
The grand lodge reimbursementprogram.
Here's a quick, quickpresentation on it, um, but it's
going to be the hiccup of thebuy-in from the rest of the
craft, especially those olderbrothers who don't understand

(40:00):
the way that internetadvertising works.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Yeah, um you know, no lodge in the state should be
using any kind of a marketingprogram or bringing in members
until you address some of theseproblems.
Uh, because all you're doing ishurting the reputation of the
fraternity of those guys youbring into your problems.
So, um, I have a lot to sayabout bringing in members
because I've done it for so long, but I'm not going to because

(40:24):
we're focused on what you got todo before you start bringing
members into your lives, right?
So here's a good one, and I'monly bringing this up because
I've seen it in multiple lodgesthat started bringing members a
little too early I think it, Ithink we got this issue okay.
consider how you're going toidentify and treat visitors to

(40:45):
your life, because it might havebeen a while it might have been
a while, um before you startedreceiving them.
So one of the things thatbecame an issue and actually got
me angry when I was master is II personally like to do my
interviews and things with newmasons on the weekend, not

(41:06):
during, because I'm too busy tosit with them.
I can't.
As an officer, no matter whatchair I was in, I never had two
minutes to eat.
I was always running around,doing stuff makes sense.
There's no way I could sitthere and talk to somebody, so I
would often ask for somebodyelse to help me.
If somebody came on a statedmeeting night, it sounds like
you have a better way ofhandling than we did, but when

(41:27):
they would come to the statedmeetings, nobody would know who
they were and they would largelybe left alone, because most
guys, when they go to themeetings, that's the only time
they get with their buddies andtheir friends and they want to
catch up and tell jokes and bewith their friends, and so
naturally, as humans, that'swhat we gravitate to is spending
time with the people we know welike to feel part of a group

(41:57):
and you know those new peopleget left alone sometimes, and so
when this was happening morethan once, I actually told the
craft we need to figure out afix, because this cannot be how
we operate.
We cannot let a man sit byhimself when there's so many of
us here.
So what the craft decided to dowas buy colored plates.
If a new guy was here, he atehis dinner with a green plate,

(42:17):
and we all agreed if we see aman in that lodge with a green
plate, you will go say hello tohim and shake his hand before
the meeting starts.
I like that.
So there are easy and I didn'tcome up with that right.
It was an issue that came upand it made me mad, so we
brought it up to the craft andthey decided on a solution and
they implemented that solutionthat worked.

(42:39):
I like that a lot.
Those are things you don'tthink about before you start
bringing guys in, but those areissues that will come up.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
So what I'm hearing is that you need your most
extroverted and talkative personin order to go just hang out
with that guy.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
It sounds like this was Jasmine.
Jasmine said appoint someone tospend time with that candidate
for the night, and I thinkthat's probably what most people
do, and it's probably a goodidea for one person to be
responsible for making sure thathe's not alone.
For me, it was a group thing,like we needed to all be in on
this.
I needed to make sure we all weeveryone complains about not

(43:18):
having members.
So when they come, you need totreat them like a brother.
You need to make them feelwelcome and this is their home.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
This is what could be their home.
So what do you?
What do you name that?
I mean?
Is it it like the steward ofsocializing?
Is it the talkative Tyler?
We need some names for this.
That's what we need.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
We did have a welcome committee and there were three
people who were in charge ofwelcoming everyone that came
into the lobby Everyone, whetherthey were a member or not a
member Because we felt like thewhole vibe of a meeting gets set
the minute you walk in.
You know it's like cheers.
When the guys walked intocheers and they're all over, go,
no, all right.

(43:55):
It's like, oh wow, this is myplace, these are my people.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
You already are in a good mood.
I'm not trying to say that youjust dated yourself with that
reference, but I appreciate it.
You know what I'm talking about.
I know what you're talkingabout yeah yeah, good yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
I mean it's important when somebody walks in, that
somebody's there to make themfeel welcome and like they're
wanted.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
So we've had a couple of guys come in for dinners
recently.
One of the things that Inoticed some of the brothers
doing and I actually did it withone of the guys who came in I
took the guy around and juststarted showing him stuff.
I was like, hey, becausehanging on the walls at our
lodge, obviously we have all thepast masters up on the wall.
Uh, we've got george washingtonup by the door, uh, by the west

(44:37):
door.
Um, so you, we've got a wholelot of historical things that
are laid out around our lodgethat you could just literally
take 15, 20 minutes and walkthem around the lodge and give
them the history not only ofmasonry, but you can give them
the history of your particularlodge, which I think would
really do well, of course, tellthem how active you are in the

(44:59):
community.
But yeah, to Jasmine's pointand to your point, making them
feel welcomed.
Nobody wants to go to a lodgeor go to a church or anywhere,
and just feel like they're theoutcast right.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Um, it's already nerve-wracking enough to walk
into a place like a freemasonlodge when you don't know what's
going on, and heard theirsecrets and you know, and then
they all act different.
It's like, no, you wantsomething.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
You want to feel like , oh, these are good people, I
like these people like I feelgood about being here I felt
like they like me, we we had Ithink it was our first meeting
of the year, so it was Ryan'sfirst meeting in the East.
We had gosh, probably 30, 35brothers in lodge that night and
it was great.
I mean, you walked in and wehad a couple people from Turkey

(45:46):
Creek who showed up as well andit was their first time at that
lodge.
Dude, there were guys playingchess in the front area, in the
lobby.
People were just sitting aroundtalking, you know, just chewing
the fat and you know, talkingabout how their days and weeks
have gone and what they're doingin their lodge and all this
other stuff.
That's the kind of environmentyou want to be in.
I mean, you're joining afraternity, so you want to feel

(46:06):
like this is a welcoming groupof men, so that way I can become
part of this group andhopefully that camaraderie
remains there.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
But definitely consider how you're going to
treat these people, becauseevery lodge is different.
Your lodge likes to have themcome to multiple dinners.
I think you said Yep, for us,we like to personally interview
them for an hour with nodistractions, and be able to ask
them questions and let them askus questions.
We call the uh, we call them anorientation and we had an

(46:35):
agenda for what we were.
They needed to understand thehistory of Freemasonry and the
history of our lodge and wherewe're trying to go and, uh, what
they can expect if they were tocome here.
And we would also like to talkabout the other lodges around us
that they might want to checkout, because every lodge has a
different culture all right.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Number five plan ahead for support, catechism,
mentoring, recruit some pastmasters for this.
I have a particular stickingpoint with this um because one
thing I will say positive aboutlakeland 91, again, I'm going to
sing their praises for a longtime.
They have that support systemin it.

(47:16):
I mean it is there, it is readyto go, they've got all the
people for the roles and they'rereally good at what they do.
I mean the whole reason I foundout that you don't cross in
front of between the altar andthe east, the whole reason.
I learned that was fromwatching this podcast on the
level.
Whenever you guys yeah, when youguys did an episode on lodge
etiquette, I was like, oh crap.
Well, as a fellow craft, I nowknow that I'm not supposed to

(47:38):
cross in lodge, I'm not supposedto cross between the altar and
the east.
I had no clue.
And then, of course, wheneverwe went to another lodge, there
were some I don't know if theywere EA or fellow crafts, but
you know he went to go walkthere and I stopped him and I
was like, hey, buddy, like no,you don't, you don't walk in
front of, in front of the East,like that.

(47:59):
He's like, why not.
I said it's bad etiquette, youknow.
So we didn't have that supportsystem in place.
Then fast forward and now we dohave that support system in
place and I absolutely love it.
The only argument that I wouldgive to the catechism aspect and
I think we've talked about itbefore is if you have one
brother who's teaching youcatechism the entire time, you
only have exposure to that onebrother.
I would make an argument thatyour catechism instructor needs

(48:23):
to be different brothers foreach degree so that way the
candidate and then the brotherthey're initiated has more
exposure to people in the craftand has that one-on-one time.
So if you're not getting thatand if you could have multiple
people do your catechismtraining, it lightens the burden
on the catechism instructor andalso gives that brother more

(48:43):
exposure to more people withinthe craft.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
Well, I think that's a good idea.
We are in a jurisdiction thatin our rules in the state of
florida it says that you shouldhave the same catechism
instructor and the same mentorfor the candidate through all
three degrees and that they mustbe different people.
So your catechism guy can't beyour mentor.
Um, and I know that otherlodges are doing that.

(49:08):
There's one in my district thatliterally has a board and they
have an EA catechism guy and afellow craft catechism guy and
they have colored dots for whothe jamming is with and they
track it.
So hey, rules are made to bebroken, right?
I'm not advocating for breakingthe rules.
I would never do that.
However, if you're in ajurisdiction that says you

(49:31):
should do it a certain way, becareful to try to do it that way
or change it.
You know even better, change it, make it better, like, submit
legislation to make it the wayyou think it should be and let
the brothers vote on it, andthen that's how you can change
the entire jurisdiction for thebetter.
We we flashed up some commentswhile you were talking from I'm
sorry, I'm not bad I didn't seeyou're good they were.

(49:51):
They were, uh, from members onthe live stream.
We just were joined by duane,who is the past master sauce.
Hey brother, yeah, so we gotsome celebrities now all right,
not that, uh, patrick wasn'tpatrick.
Uh, I'm not sure who patrick is, but he said a lot of lodges
are struggling with dad businessinstructors because a lot of
lodges are struggling Withcataclysm instructors because A

(50:11):
lot of brothers aren'tencouraged to teach After
they're made a master of mason.
They're pushed to appendantbodies.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Here's a very good point.
Yeah, this is why, matt, whenhe said Number five, he said
Think about recruiting thosepast masters.
Oh, this is Patrick Tessier,past minister of Worms Lodge
number 36.
All right, yeah, patrick's goodbrother Out of Apopka, my
brother.
Welcome.
Yeah, the reason that we'resaying you might want to recruit

(50:43):
the past masters is becausethere's two reasons.
One, they have the knowledgeand the history to pass that on
to somebody.
And two, they want to be askedto do something.
They want to feel needed andimportant.
And these jobs the catechisminstructors and the mentors are

(51:04):
critically important to thelodge functions and future.
So it's a perfect fit for apast master.
If you have any that you canreach out to.
This is a way to get theminvolved.
This is a way to ask them tohelp their lodge again and it's
a way for them to stay connectedto the future of the lodge.
As they bring these brothers in, they have a vested interest in

(51:24):
seeing them go through theofficer life and being their
mentors throughout, and so Ithink the past masters is the
first place to go If you'regoing to start recruiting for
these things Now.
The other argument is put themto work right away.
Put them to work when theybecome a master mason.
Give them a job, give mesomething to do.
And so you know I don'tpersonally feel like the job the

(51:46):
new master mason should bedoing is mentoring new master
masons Personally, job that anew master mason should be doing
is mentoring new master masons.
Personally, I don't believethat there's too much other
stuff around the lodge that theycould be doing.
Uh, uh, if you have no otherchoice, you got to do what you
got to do, man, you got to domake it work for you.
But we were advocating to go tothose past masters first.
Personally, if you can't, it'sreally easy to just ignore a

(52:08):
request in the trestle board.
It's real hard, when somebodycalls you up and asks for help,
to say no.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
And, honestly, you gave me some phenomenal advice
that actually paid off reallywell and I saw very good
dividends off of your advice.
So your advice was is thatwhenever I became, I want those
dividends.
Man, you're going to get a cutof a lodge that no longer exists
, so so, either way, what youradvice was is yeah, go ahead and

(52:40):
start getting into catechismtraining, because what that's
going to do is it's now going tobuild your guys.
Those guys are going to feellike they're loyal to you.
So if you want to see the lodgeculture change, all the new
people you bring in, just havethem around those positive
influences.
So let's say you do have atroublemaker in the Lodge, I
probably wouldn't assign them tocatechism training.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
No, or a Lodge mentor program.
Like we said, the new MasterMason's world is so small it's
that Lodge and it's theircatechism instructor, the mentor
.
That's their whole world forlike six months probably, and
those you know.
What I was told is if you signfor somebody to join the lodge,
if you're a top line signer, youshould be prepared to be that

(53:22):
brother's mentor through thethree degrees and that's the
best mentor is the guy thatbrought you in.
In my opinion, that should bethe first place you go to when
you're looking for a new mentor.
You sign this petition, you'regoing to be his mentor.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Well, and even still, let's talk about this from a,
because we're all men here, butlet's talk about this from a
little bit of an emotionalaspect.
The emotional aspect is is, ifI am a brand new brother Now,
not all men are this way Okay,so I'm not.
I'm not speaking in totalitieshere, um, but what I would

(53:56):
recommend is you need to givethat master Mason time to fall
in love with the craft.
You've got to give them thattime.
Now I jumped into the deep endof the pool.
I'm not recommending thateverybody do that, um.
You know we've talked about ithere before on the show that my
history and my career as amaster Mason right now has been
packed so with some of the stuffthat I've been through, it's

(54:19):
like no, it's.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
It's been pretty interesting and he's been in a
life when the charter was pulledin the meeting and I was in a
trial trial.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
Yeah, I was a testimony in a trial not for you
.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
You were there as a witness yeah so.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
So keep in mind, brothers, especially you new
master masons or you fellowcrafts or ea and you're
listening to this, my masoniccareer is not going to mirror a
lot of people's masonic careers.
I don't know how I got here, um, but I am so.
So, having said that, you needto give that brother time to
fall in love with the craft andthe teachings and to build that
camaraderie and build thoserelationships with those people

(54:54):
that are in your lodge, because,at the end of the day, for
example, ryan Ryan's here in thelive chat.
Ryan is one of those guys.
If he were to call me right nowand say, matt, I'm broke down
on the side of the road, I needyou to come get me, bro, I'm
there, let's do it.
Or Jasmine were to call me andsay, hey, I need help with XYZ
thing, you've got it, I'm there.
I know that I have a certainamount of loyalty to those
people.

(55:14):
You've got to give the youngmaster mason time in order for
him to build that.
Because, at the end of the day,if you take a brand new person,
if you take a brand newChristian, you take a brand new
politician, you take a brand newmaster mason and you just heat
everything down upon them.
Oh, you're here now.
Great, this means you can doall these things.
You're going to run that personoff.
He's going to get burnt outvery quickly.
You've got to give them time tobuild up an affinity for the

(55:37):
craft before you start puttingthings on them 100 percent duane
.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
Uh, past master's thoughts said say it live for
those in the back.
Spend a good solid year plusgetting your foundation, if not,
you'll not gain anything.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
Yeah, and even still some of it has to be that they
have to, they have to learn, uh,the words for ritual.
You know, I, I did a crashstudy on junior deacon.
Whenever I became junior deacon, I was told as a fellow craft
that I was going to be thejunior deacon the next year.
Um, so, yeah, so, and I toldyou, it's like after we would
get done with fellow craftcatechism, I would, I would be

(56:13):
practicing for junior deacon,you know.
So that's how fast it happened.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
I'm in our desperation that we rush our new
guys through everything becauseyou need them.
We're desperate for help.
So you go from being a fellowcraft to being told you're going
to be the junior deacon,meaning you skip two years of
chairs already.
They're telling you this asyour fellow craft to being told
you're going to be the juniordean, meaning you've skipped two
years of chairs already.
They're telling you this asyour fellow craft.
That is a sign of trouble and alot.
You need to be able to ideallyallow those guys to acclimate.

(56:43):
Because what happens is it's avery structured thing going
through your catechism, right,you have regular meetings, you
meet the same people, you knowwhat's going to happen.
You're going to do some work,you're going to be proud, you're
going to be happy, you're goingto be upset when you fail, but
you're going to be learning in avery structured way, and then
it all goes away one day.
Hey, you're a master mason nowGood luck.

(57:04):
And what do you do like?
You start getting hit bypendant bodies.
You go to these stated meetingswhere it's not at all what you
thought it was going to be.
You're learning this reallycool old english stuff that's so
esoteric.
Every day, every week or often,you're practicing and
memorizing and now you'resitting in a room where people
aren't acting masonically,potentially, or they're arguing

(57:27):
about, like the fish, and you'relike what?
This is it, this is what I didall that work for it's a huge
culture shock.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
Which, by the way, brothers, we need to have a
conversation.
Fish fries are not the answerto everything.
I'm sorry, but they aren't.
We've got to come up withsomething else.
I'm sorry, but the fish frieshad their day.
They were great in the 70s and80s.
Sorry, but the fish fries hadtheir day.
They were great in the 70s and80s.
It's time You're talking 40years later.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
It's time.
Patrick just gave an example.
He said he was I think he'stalking about himself raised
November 19th.
Installed junior deaconDecember 27th, four years to the
east and two years secretary.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Yeah, and he put up a really great point of not all
brothers can do this and weshould afford them the time to
enjoy and learn from the craftthe.
I think where my journey as amaster Mason has been a little
bit of an anomaly is just howstubborn I am.
I'm very stubborn, I'm veryhardheaded.
Uh, this shouldn't surpriseanybody who knows me personally,
but because I knew thisorganization was in a place

(58:34):
where it absolutely needs heavyhitters, it needs workers, it
needs people that are going toput in the time and effort, I
wasn't opposed to that.
So I did a lot of my learningof the craft while I was also
working in the craft.
Again, my journey should notmirror everybody's journey.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Nobody's journey should be exactly the same.
Yeah, what so we're?

Speaker 2 (58:59):
we're gonna burn through a couple here because
short on time, but say numbersix.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
This is an easy one.
Make sure you have an updatedand solid mentoring plan.
It is required by the GrandLodge of Florida and I believe
other jurisdictions also havecertain requirements that their
new members get educated.
In the state of Florida you'resupposed to stand up at their
degree and their mentor issupposed to say for the record
for the secretary that thisbrother was mentored according

(59:22):
to the Grand Lodge guidebookswhatever guidebooks he went over
with them.
So it's in the minutes of themeeting the night that they get
their degree.
I know a lot of lodges aren'tdoing this.
The mentoring plan in mostjurisdictions is set by grand
lodge.
It gives you the guidelinesthat you need to cover.
Be honest with you, I've doneit.
You can do it in very shortamount of time.

(59:44):
You have a lot of time leftover with these people where you
have a lot more freedom to givethem mentoring.
And it should cover lodgeetiquette.
They should be learning thatfrom their mentor, not from a
podcast.
Their mentor should be teachingthem.
When you stand up to talk, youwait to be acknowledged, right?

(01:00:05):
Some important things that yousee nobody pays attention to in
a lodge.
Let's educate them from thestart, so they know how it works
.
How many times have you seenyour brother stand up and just
start talking?
But so many times right.
Or somebody sitting startstalking while somebody standing
is talking.
All right, if I'm being honest,that that's annoying.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
That is super annoying.
It's like I'm trying to hearwhat's going on and meanwhile
we've got this line of guys thatare sitting in the north and
they're all just chatterboxes,and it's like guys come on Like
I'm trying to hear what's goingon and you guys are over there
talking because why you don'thave your hearing aids turned up
, so, and then it just getslouder and louder and louder and
it's like come on.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Patrick is making the point that mentoring and the
Lodge system of mentoring aretwo totally different things.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Oh, let's dive into that, Cause I'm actually not
familiar with that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
So um, the lodge system, the grand lodge system
of mentoring, is actuallyspecific books that you're
supposed to cover with them andit has multiple choice quizzes
so you can see if they learnanything from the education that
grand lodge wants them to have.
But I believe what Patrick'ssaying is that true mentoring

(01:01:12):
isn't that it's havingconversations about where are
you at in your life, like whatdo you hope to get out of this?
Let me help you learn.
The ins and outs of this iswhere they really need help.
I think that, based on knowingyou now as a guy, you can help
in this way.
The lodge could use your help,like that's what a real mentor
is, whereas the lot grandma'ssystem of mentoring by that

(01:01:35):
mentor is just going over whatgrandma just said we have to or
let's let's even dive into it alittle bit further, cause
hearing you say that, let's sayyou have a brother who has a
real bad issue with controllinghis anger.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
You know, that's one of the things that we learned
about.
First is circumscribing yourpassions, or keeping your
passions within due bound, soit's like all right if you've
got a problem with your anger.
That's where you need to applythe hammer the most.
You've got to chisel away atthat and really work at that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Dwayne Marshall says.
I get grumpy every time I saythis, but we rush brothers to
the degrees because they canregurgitate words from one
degree to the next with no realunderstanding.
We are cheating them of a goodMasonic experience.
That's true, and we used tocall that raising empty masons.
Oh, because they could repeatsome words.
They got the degree and theywent on to the next one, but

(01:02:26):
they were empty.
They didn't even know what itwas to be an inner apprentice
yet because they didn't get realmentoring.
You know, and you don't want toraise empty masons.
In my spiritual system it tooka year and a day between degrees
so the ritual learning cansettle in and I had a better
understanding.
Slowing it down is reallyimportant and you know what?
It's really hard.
Um, uh, matt's generation orbelow.

(01:02:49):
When they come into your lodgethey don't want to go slow, they
want to go fast.
They're so used to consuming somuch information so fast that
that's just how they live theirlives and it's a kind of culture
shock for them to see how slow.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Masonry moves, yeah, and honestly, worshipful Patrick
just commented.
One thing I always tell EAs isthat just because you chip off a
part of your rough ashlardoesn't mean it can't reappear.
So the working tools should bea part of our everyday lives.
One thousand percent.
Yes.
Oh, my goodness, I cannot tellyou how many masons I've seen
where it's like.

(01:03:24):
I've talked about it beforehere on the podcast where it
like.
I've seen situations happen inlodge where none of our working
tools were being used.
In that conversation, Iwholeheartedly agree with that
statement of look, you have toconstantly be reapplying these
lessons and chipping away.
So, for example and I've talkedabout it here I have a

(01:03:46):
three-year-old daughter.
When you have a kid, thedynamics around your house
change and so, yeah, our temperis going to get a little more
shortened because you'restressed out or you're not
sleeping as much, or whateverthe case might be.
Yes, that's absolutely going tohappen.
I need to revisit that lessonnow on being able to keep my
passions within due bounds,because, no matter how
frustrated I may get, it's notgoing to be good for anybody or

(01:04:07):
anything if I just pop off.
That's not going to be good foranybody or anything if I just
pop off.
That's not going to helpanybody.
It's not going to do good foranyone or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
So those tools are everywhere in your lodge when
you go on the lot.
Most lodges have themeverywhere on the walls.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
They should be speaking to you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Yeah, so listen.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
And, honestly, my dad gave me a gift as a young man
and not like a tangible gift andthese are the best kinds of
it's wisdom and the wisdom thathe gave me, and he was so pissed
off at me one day.
So I work at the familybusiness and I came in one day
and something had happened athome and I came here to work and
I was just ticked and so I wasmiserable to be around all day.

(01:04:47):
My dad looked at me with astraight face and he said, son,
and I said, yes, sir, he goes.
I'm going to go ahead and giveyou some advice.
When you come in here and youpunch that time clock, you
didn't have a bad day at home.
Nothing happened, absolutelynothing happened.
He goes.
Whenever you come here and youpunch that time clock, your last
name isn't even stone anymore.
He goes you are just anotheremployee here at this business

(01:05:08):
and what that?
What I took from that is I havethis ability, and I'm not saying
it's a good one, but it is anability of if I have something
that is bothering me or a topic,that topic stays in that box
and it goes on a shelf until Ipull that box back down, running
through my head at all times.
Yeah, am I planning things?
Am I thinking through things?

(01:05:29):
Sure, but if I'm mad atsomebody at work, I do not take
that home to my wife and kid.
If I'm mad at somebody here atwork or if I've had a bad
interaction with my wife and kid, you know and I'm just stressed
out because you know, let'sface it, life gets in the way
I'm not going to take that tolodge and just be insufferable
to the brothers at the lodge.
No, they didn't do anything athome.
It was my kid talking to meabout Spider-Man for the fifth

(01:05:50):
time today.
That's what got me right.
Yeah, I'm kidding, by the way,spider-man with your kid, always
with Spider-Man, but either way, no, so I have the ability to
be able to put everything in itscategory in its box, and I only
address it whenever I pull thatbox down.
We've got to be the same thingat lodge.
Whenever you walk through thatdoor at lodge and you're in your
lobby, or you walk through thatwest door in order to get into

(01:06:11):
the lodge room, check your bs atthe door.
That was the phrase my dad said.
He goes, son, check yourbullshit at the door.
Because?
So, because at the end of theday, it's not the brother's
fault that you've had a bad dayat work.
It's not the brother's faultthat you've got stresses bad day
at work.
It's not the brother's faultthat you've got stresses at home
.
It's not their fault.

(01:06:31):
Yeah, you can talk throughthose things.
I mean we've had situations atour lodge where we stayed after
the lodge for an hour, two hours, just talking about what's
happening personal in our lives,and that's okay, there's room
for that.
But I'm not going to bring thatcontention into the lodge room.
That is wrong with me as a manand a Mason wrong with me as a
man and a mason?

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
It's tough, it's hard to do, but the more you do it,
the better you get at it.
And if you don't even try,you're never going to improve.
So get busy being a mason.
Agreed Number seven.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
This is an easy one.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Get the craft ready for new blood.
Okay, it's important to talkabout the fact that you're going
to be actively bringing in newmembers, because new members
bring new ideas and the lastthing you want is for new ideas
to get shut down.
Worshipful.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
Chris, did you just say the word new in my
fraternity?
How dare you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
Hi, yeah, nothing new .
Nothing new can ever happen inthe lot, nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
We have to do.
We have to do everything thesame way we did it in 1963.
That was a good year.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
I mean, really, dude, you need to talk about.
Hey look, people are going tobe coming in here.
They're new.
They might have ideas thatwe've already done.
Let's be sensitive to that.
They don't know.
Okay, it's encouraging newideas.
This is supposed to be like uh,you ever?
I don't know if you ever doneimprov or anything, but it's it.
It's yes, and that's a greatidea and we have tried it before

(01:07:59):
.
But what if we did this likelet's make it a yes in
environment for the new guys.
Let's not shut them down, let'snot say no, let's not say it's
a dumb idea.
Maybe let's educate them on thepast?
Sure, but let's talk aboutthings we could try differently,
like make it a positiveexperience for them.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
So I run everything through what I call a SWOT
analysis.
That's strengths, weaknesses,opportunities and threats.
So let's say we have GrandLodge reimbursement program, or
let's say we have updating thelodge whatever the case may be,
anything that's brought in frontof us or anything that's
brought in front of me in life,you know whoever decided they
wanted to bring up lodgefundraising right.

(01:08:37):
So, for example, one of thethings that we're having right
now is we're doing a charityfundraiser with the local
baseball team, the strengthsbeing is that it's going to, you
know, it's going to bring inmore money to the lodge, the
weaknesses being that we're notgoing to have a whole lot of
people sign up for it.
The opportunities are that wecan teach more people about
masonry and that we're not theseweird people that have an

(01:08:57):
obsession with goats I'm sorry,but we aren't and the threats
being who are we going to get todo the work that's ultimately
going to be?
The threat is all right, weneed to have more people do
these things, okay good, goodfeedback.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
Number eight we already talked about, so this
one we can just rough fast makea plan to identify the roles for
the process of bringing in newmembers um that looks like the
worshipful master standing upfrom the east and saying get to
work, son, yeah, or thesecretary.
Yeah or the secretary like the,the roles, who.

(01:09:32):
Who is going to call thesepeople?
Who's going to meet with thesepeople?
Who's going to be responsiblefor these different things, like
?
Figure it out before you startbringing the people in and
brothers.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
Honestly, it can't be the same three to five people
every single time.
I'm sorry, but we need to havemore people who are working, who
are putting in the effort.
If you've got an investigationcommittee, it can't be the same
three guys over and over again.
We've got to have people whoare willing to stand up and do a
little bit of work.
If you're one of those sidelinepeople, one of the easiest
things you can do isinvestigations.
It's one of the easiest thingsyou can do Investigations,

(01:10:05):
interviews, whatever the casemight be.
It's super simple.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
I'm a marketing guy, so I always told everybody in my
line, whether they were aboveor below me, everyone wants to
be part of the winning team.
So when there's a perceptionthat you're winning, you're
going to get all kinds of peoplethat want to help out.
It's really hard when peoplehave the perception that you're
just starting something out orit's not working.
Nobody's going to help you,right?

(01:10:29):
Nobody.
So you need to put forth theimage that you're winning.
This is great.
We got a new guy last week.
Everybody Get him excited aboutit, feel like you're winning,
and that's how you get people tovolunteer.
You make them feel like they'regoing to be part of the winning
team, and they will.
They will join, yeah team andthey will.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
They will join.
Yeah, momentum is the thingthat fixes problems, and I think
what part of that is a big partof what you just said is is
creating a lodge vision in fiveyears and this goes back to what
you said earlier.
One of your earlier points isin five years.
Here's where it's going to beall right, we need as many
people as we can so that way wecan achieve whatever that goal
is now and that that might evenlook like.
You've got, I don't know, fiveor six brothers that they are

(01:11:14):
just your heavy hitters man.
They, they are your guys, butyou got to get other brothers
involved.
So, creating that very clearvision, being very clear and
transparent about the vision, uh, transparency cures a lot of
ailments, um so, uh, that wouldbe my argument.
Yeah, yeah, that goes a longway.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
So, so, that would be my argument.
Currency, yeah yeah, that goesa long way.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
So that would be my argument is creating that lodge
vision.
Hey, here's where it's going tobe.
In five, who can we plug intowhat role?

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
Number nine use Facebook to generate leads.
Sorry that you don't.
You're not on Facebook.
I'm sorry that you don'tunderstand Facebook, but there
are people there.
People that need Masonry intheir life are there.
They just don't know we exist.
They don't even know that it'sa thing anymore.
This generation may never evenhave heard of Freemason.

(01:12:06):
It's to that point now haveheard of Freemason.
It's to that point now, and soyou know we can put the message
out there that resonates withthis generation of people.
I'm not talking about the baldones.
Their generation of people.
These are people that havegrown up in a very sterilized
world.
They don't live.

(01:12:26):
I'm not talking about you baldones.
I'm talking about the generationof people have grown up where
they're getting curated livesonline of people, only the best
moments, only the best lookingpictures of the ones that are
online right, um, it's not reallife and these people are
desperate for real in theirlives, and that's what

(01:12:47):
freemasonry is supposed to beabout real connecting.
What is it in my heart that'simportant to me, like how do I
grow as a person?
They need and want that bad,and we have it.
We have what they need.
They just need to know about it.
So I'm sorry, the shriners atthe parade aren't cutting it for
this generation.
They think it's silly, theydon't understand what it's about

(01:13:08):
, right?
So you gotta you meet peoplewhere they're at, and right now
that's where the world is.
They live online, so we need tobe where they are.
You fish, you fish where thefish are Not where you like to
go, but where the fish are,wearing a fishing shirt.
Actually, that's just what Ilike to say.

(01:13:28):
Get used to the fact that inthe future, it's only going to
become more internet heavy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
Yeah, I was over at I'll go ahead and name drop this
one.
I was over at Brandon Lodge andone of the things they talked
about is they had an event atBrandon Lodge and they sent an
invite out to all the newschannels, all the local news
affiliates, and nobody showed upfrom the local news affiliates
Society, and I hate saying thissociety doesn't care about

(01:13:56):
Freemasonry anymore, unless it'sthe bad stuff about Freemasonry
.
That's the only thing they careabout is they want to tear down
something that is good, that ishonorable.
That's what they want to do.
So maybe, instead of invitingyour local news affiliate to a
special event that you're having, maybe you go live.
You go live on Facebook,instagram, tiktok, whatever it

(01:14:18):
is, because you're going to getmore viewers that are actually
interested in whatever you'resaying, rather than just hearing
about it on the 10 o'clock news.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
I joined the fraternity because I saw a
random documentary aboutfreemasonry and it wasn't the
mysteries of freemasonryunlocked, it wasn't that.
It was a documentary about likereal people right, it was like
guys and their individual livesand like what they've gotten out
of freemasonry and I'm like,whoa, this is what I need in my

(01:14:48):
life.
I need to learn how to haverelationships with other dudes
and like I need to be better atdocumentary.
It was exactly where I was atthe time and it was giving me
the message.
I needed time to get me to walkinto a lodge and, like you said
, kids are on their phone and ifyou live stream, they're going
to see it, friends are going tosee it and they're going to see

(01:15:09):
like wow, are going to see it.
And, uh, they're going to seelike wow, they're having fun.
Wow, this looks normal.
Like well, this kind of onepart of this.
Everyone wants to be part ofthe winning team.

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
It looks like they're having I don't want to miss
that and honestly and I hatesaying it like this, but you're
in advertising and marketing, soyou know exactly what I'm going
to be, what I'm going to sayyou're not putting out your
dirty laundry on social media.
No, instead, you're doing likea 10 second clip with, like
happy music behind it.
And you know, oh, look at thesecool things that we're doing.
That's what you're putting outthere for advertising.

(01:15:38):
But you know, this problem isnot exclusive to lodges.
Some of the most successfulpreachers I have ever seen they
put out these little TikTok andInstagram reels of you know 30
seconds of their message, youknow, and they take their
hardest hitting point in themessage and they put that as
that is their TikTok or theirreel in order to bring more
people in to hear the entiremessage.

(01:15:59):
We can copy that very easily,very, very easily.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
Yeah, I mean you got to know how to work a phone or
log in Facebook to do that.
But you know we can teach youthose things, yeah.
So, lastly, number 10, we needto, there needs to be some
structure to this Schedulemeetings, hold orientations and,
most importantly, close thedeal.

(01:16:24):
So when I say close the deal,you need to ask them are you
interested in joining thefraternity or would you like a
petition?
They don't know to ask you this.
Generally people don't know andthey expect you to take charge
of leading the process and asbasins, we feel uncomfortable

(01:16:45):
asking that question.
So this is why we're sharing it.
You are going to have to ask ifthey want to join.
Yeah, they don't know that theyneed to ask.
Yeah, that it's better if theyask.
They just don't know.
And so at some point you'regoing to have to ask them if
they're interested in joining,if they would like a petition.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
Well, and if I'm not mistaken and correct me if I'm
wrong here, but I think we'rethe only organization that puts
that entire burden on thecandidate, right, right?
Because even if you considerfrom, like a Christianity
perspective, it's like you know,no, we still ask.
You know, hey, would you liketo be baptized or would you like
to join our church?
You know that is still asked bythe people in the institution,

(01:17:27):
versus with candidates, you know, there's this stigma that, oh,
no, you can't ask someone ifthey want to become a Mason.
No, you kind of can you know,and it's written into our law.
It's written into our law nowthat you can ask them.
But you're also dealing withthe generation chris, that there
was a generation of masons thatthey would not allow anybody to

(01:17:49):
join unless they asked threetimes.
Right, they had to ask threetimes.
I totally disagree with that.
It's like no, if I'm alreadytold no once, then all right,
the answer is no and that's allthere is to it.
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
I don't think I would've done well with that
either.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
No, I would've.

Speaker 1 (01:18:04):
I don't want anything that sucks.

Speaker 2 (01:18:06):
Yeah, it's like what do you mean?
The answer's no.
You had me come to six dinnersand get to know all these people
.
For me to ask and then be toldno, that's ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
You're talking about the 40s and 50s, like it was a
very different time, right?
But the elders.
It's swollen and they don'tneed members, so they're being
very picky at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
Right, the thing is, the elders in our craft right
now experienced that, andbecause they experienced that as
young Masons, no, that is nowthe standard.
No, it is no longer thestandard.
Times change.
I'm sorry, but we don't usefull paper ads in the Sunday

(01:18:48):
Times anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
We do advertising campaigns, or we don't do
billboards anymore.
We do advertising campaigns, sothe world's different.
If you become a committeemanfor public relations and
publicity today, the Grand Lodgeof Florida is going to send you
a little pamphlet about how tomake sure you get in the
newspaper and on your localradio.
That's what they think weshould be doing.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
They're way behind the times.

Speaker 2 (01:19:09):
Do you want to know something very interesting,
since you talked about radio?
I have a truck that I've nowowned this truck for going on
two years.
I have never once in that truckturned on an FM station, not
one time.
I literally everything.
There's no conservative talk onfm, why would you be there?
Well, even am, I don't care I,I just I don't listen to radio

(01:19:30):
anymore.
You don't listen to am either.
No, I don't listen to am or fmradio.
All I listen to is spotifyplaylists and podcasts.
That's it, yeah, and that'sthat.
That's the generation of masonthat you going to have to deal
with.
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
Exactly, and you know , I think that this is one of
the things, the biggest changesI've seen in society.
This is unrelated, totally, butwe've talked about this.
When I was growing up, therewas like four channels and every
one of those four channels atnight told the same news stories
.
So when you went out into theday the next day, we all shared

(01:20:03):
the same ecosystem.
We were all hearing the samenews.
We were all on the same page.
And today, like you said,you're listening to spotify all
day.
Other people are listening toaudiobooks or podcasts.
People are getting their newsnot from television,
professional journalism.
Usually it's from social mediaor podcasters or influencers.

(01:20:27):
That's where they're gettingtheir news.
Or, you know, like, Bill Maherhas a kind of news-related show,
or the Daily Show is kind of anews-related comedy, but their
news, like this is where peopleget news today.
So when you walk out of yourhouse, your neighbors, you have
no idea what information they'regetting, where they're getting
the information from, what theybelieve about the world that's

(01:20:48):
happening today.
It could be completely differentthan you which, which, and, and
that's a big shift in societyoh, it's on the same page to
we're all living in differentworlds.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
It is a huge, huge shift, and you know what.
To even bring up a point morelocal to you and I you and I get
our news from two verydifferent locations and we've
talked about this a couple oftimes and it's so funny.
My wife stopped me the otherday.
She was like hey, I have aquestion for you.
And I was like yeah, what's up.
She's like does Chris hate you?
And I was like what do you mean?

(01:21:19):
Does Chris hate me?
Like no, like we're brothers,we're good, like you know we're
like.
We could literally be goingback and forth at each other on
Facebook and then also textingeach other something totally
different.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
Oh, absolutely, it's almost every time.

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
Which is hilarious, but that actually accentuates
your point that you and I findour news at two very different
locations, and so we view theworld from two very different
perspectives, and that's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
It is totally okay that we have those viewpoints
and I think that politics inparticular is automatically
assumed that you're yelling whenyou're talking.

Speaker 2 (01:21:52):
Especially in writing .
Well, it's that, and it's alsothat it's a binary.
So it's a binary.
It is either you're with me oragainst me.
No, chris finds his informationfrom one source, I find my
information from another source,and then we talk about it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
Always, when you bring a point, you have a link
and I try to do the same.
And if I don't have time to doresearch and provide you with
that in the debate, I'll justtell you I'm too busy to have
this debate right now.
But I haven't come back to this.

Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
Yeah, debate.
I'll just tell you I'm too busyto have this debate right now,
but I haven't even come back tothis.
I saw that last week, we bothlike to be informed.

Speaker 1 (01:22:27):
I want to get information outside of my bowl
Again.

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
I don't have to be right at these things, because
if I'm proven wrong on something, I'm only one step closer to
being that grumpy old man thatsays get off my lawn.

Speaker 1 (01:22:38):
I know everything.

Speaker 2 (01:22:39):
I am so close.

Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
So that's it, guys.
Schedule meetings for us.
We would do it on a Sunday.
It was like an exorcism.
We had an old priest and ayoung priest.
We had two guys with verydifferent perspectives that
would talk to a new candidatefor an hour.
We had an agenda.
We would go over the history ofFreemasonry, the history of

(01:23:06):
Freemasonry, the history of ourlodge, what it's like to be a
Freemason today.
Then we'd turn it to them andwhat do you do for a living?
What is your background?
What brought you here today?
What do you expect to get outof Freemasonry?
And we'd have that back andforth and we would end it with a
tour of the lodge room.
And every time you have anhour-long conversation about the
history of Freemasonry,freemasonry today and we brought
them into the lodge room.
You could feel how awestruckthey were, and that's from a guy

(01:23:28):
who had a pink lodge.
It still worked.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
You got to keep in mind who your audience is.
I cannot accentuate this enough.
You got to keep in mind whoyour audience is us enough.
You got to keep in mind whoyour audience is.
If you're dealing with apotential candidate or you're
dealing with an EA or you'redealing with a fellow craft,
specifically that candidate andthat EA, they are drinking
through a fire hose.
Okay, you cannot just throw awhole bunch of stuff at them and
expect for it to stick.
First thing, it's not going to.

(01:23:52):
You've got to revisit some ofthose lessons like lodge
etiquette, like, okay, what'sthe person who sits in the South
called?
That's the junior warden, right.
Or who's the person who sitsover there by the senior warden?
That's not the junior deacon,it's your marshal, right.
There's just little things youknow in our ritual that so many
people just don't have.
We had some brothers thatvisited from a lodge up North I
think it was like Zephyr Hillsor Dade City or something like

(01:24:14):
that.
They visited and had no idea,and so it was like no guys like
you know, hey, here's exactlyhow you do it.
And I had to literally gothrough and re-show them the
Dugard and signs for all threedegrees and saying no, this is
how you do it right.
This is all the position foryour hands in the EA degree, the
position for your hands in thefellow craft.
You know our positioning ofhands and how we do things all

(01:24:38):
have meaning.
Every single thing we do havemeaning.
So do it right and then revisitthat with them multiple times.
That way it sticks that isanother thing.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
That is an outward way that you can show you care
about your fraternity.
Do guard and sign done.
Yeah, when you watch peopleballot and you're like, wait,
was that guy just swatting in afly or did he do that, did he do
like, what did he just do?
Yeah, you know, sometimes it'slike wow, do you even care?
Like this is a way you can showthat you care.

(01:25:09):
You can do that properly.
Even if it's such a simplething as saluting around the
time of I'm not giving awayritual stuff, you know what I'm
talking about.
Do it properly, slowly, justfine.
It shows people that you careabout the fraternities.

Speaker 2 (01:25:30):
Here's your difference in the two my first
time in a ballot.
Of course I did the salute andI did it wrong, just because I
didn't know.
I had absolutely no idea.
Fast forward, we're at LakenLodge and we had a night where
we had to go through five votes.
That was a long night, hadthose nights.
It was such a long night.

(01:25:53):
So we ended up having to gothrough like five or six ballots
in one night.
So again, it was a long, longmeeting.
One of the newer Master Masonsat our lodge he had just been
raised in December.
He didn't know.
You know there was a lot ofthings that he didn't know about
balloting.
That's the first time he'd everseen it.
So I kid you not.
I think we were on the secondballot.
I saw him mess up the first oneand the visitors that we had

(01:26:15):
they, you know, all scoffed atit.
So I pulled that brother asideand I said hey, brother, here's
how you're supposed to do it andhere's why you're doing it.
So again, and that was justwhile the rest of the line was
up there balloting, I justpulled him to the side during
lodge.
Hey, here's what you do andhere's why you're doing it.
He got it.
He never messed it up againNice.

Speaker 1 (01:26:45):
So again, it's your job, go talk to him, go help him
out um, and not in acondescending way.
And, hey brother, would youlike some?
Would you like some tips orsome help with that?

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
uh, I know you did a little difference there's
actually, there's an old um, uhacapella song.
Uh, so actually there's an oldacapella song, so it's.
It's.
They're a religious singinggroup and it's all the good
things that nobody did and it's.
You know, well, I'm too busy.
So I tell everybody well, thework's got to get done by
somebody, you know.
So that's, that's kind of thewhole mindset.
And again, that's a group fromthe eighties.

(01:27:16):
We're not facing anything new.
These group from the 80s, we'renot facing anything new.
These are all the same things,over and over again, that these
institutions have seen fordecades.
So, okay, be the change youwant to see in the lodge.

Speaker 1 (01:27:26):
I love it Does anybody on our live stream have
anything they'd like to shareabout.
Outside of these 10 things youneed to do to prepare your lodge
before you bring in members.

Speaker 2 (01:27:37):
I'm seeing we still have four in the live stream, so
we'll give them a second towrite out if they want to.
Jasmine just said not a lot.
So again, be the change youwant to see in the lodge.
Don't be ashamed to throw acouple of dollars of your own
money into something that needsto get done around the lodge.
If you have jewels and apronsthat need to be updated, that's
going to cost.
If they order it from officialMasonic stores, I mean that's

(01:27:59):
going to be a $500 to $800ordeal.
Or you can take $20, $30, $40,$50 and just kind of throw at it
over time and still be able toupdate your stuff.
If you want a catechisminstructor or a lodge mentor, be
that guy, especially if you'rea past master.
I mean it can't be all on theyoung guys.
At the end of the day, we needthe wisdom of that older

(01:28:22):
generation of past masters inorder to be able to pass that
along to the younger generationof Masons.
I do have something I'll share.

Speaker 1 (01:28:31):
You know, masonry is not just inside the lodge room.
Masonry is for your life, yourlife, and uh, I, like, have
always thought of it in that therules we have that are so
specific for the lodge are liketraining wheels for a child
learning how to ride it.
But we need to be taught how todo this stuff properly.

(01:28:52):
And so if you're going to treatyour brother with a proper
decorum inside a lodge room, ina conversation or even a heated
debate, there's no reason youcan't do that with your coworker
at your job too.
There's no reason that youcan't do it with somebody who
has a different politicalopinion than you online.

(01:29:14):
You need to take those trainingwheels off and go out into the
world and be an SA Mason,because the only way most people
are ever going to experienceFreemasonry is one-on-one with a
Freemason in the wild, and thatmeans you represent the entire
preaching fraternity to thatperson.
And the way you conductyourself, the way they see you

(01:29:37):
when no one else is looking, howyou act, what you do for people
, how you sacrifice, how youreceive criticism All of that
stuff to them is oh, how doFreemasons do this?
How does a Freemason act?
You literally are Freemasoningthose people in the world.
And so why don't you be a goodrepresentative of the fraternity
if you love it?

Speaker 2 (01:29:58):
And that also includes if you have the square
encompasses on the back of yourvehicle.
Don't be cutting off people intraffic, don't pull a mask on
out and threaten them to get outyour way, or yeah, I mean it's
so.
Actually a funny story aboutthat is um, I was driving
through I think it was inatlanta I see, uh, there's a um
I think it was an f-150 orsomething like that and you know
he was being nice to everybodyin traffic and everything.

(01:30:20):
So I pulled up in front of himso he could see the square
encompasses on the back of mytruck and I saw his past master
logo on the back of his.
So it's like I just rolled downthe window, waved at him, he
and I sat there and like playedtag back and forth Like we were
like creating openings intraffic and everything for each
other.
So that was just kind of theday.
If that guy would have had apast master symbol on the back
of his truck and then he'sacting like a jerk, or if I've

(01:30:41):
got the square encompasses onthe back of my truck and I'm
driving like a jerk, that'sgoing to reflect poorly on
masonry.
So, to your point, you're 100correct.
And even still, there was a, aguy at my church and I've talked
about him here on the podcastbefore.
He's actually a member of, uh,corinthian lodge um, which is
like probably 30 minutes fromhere.
So it was so cool.
The reason why I asked you arewhere's 30 minutes from here?

(01:31:03):
Yeah Well, the 30 minutes fromcentral Florida.
It's in Polk County.
So, yeah, we got the festivalgoing right now.
So I'm seeing like all thetraffic and everything like
outside my office window.
Right yeah, strawberry festival, I love it.
So, but either way, there was areason why there's a brother at

(01:31:25):
my church that I asked himspecifically if he knew anything
about the Masons and then hegave me the grip and it's like
he just carried himselfdifferently.
And so I picked up on that and Iwas like hey, um, what's your
opinion on the Masons?
And that's whenever he shook myhand and I was like it's fine.
Yeah, so which, even still, I'mactually really looking forward
to going back to that churchnow.
Now I can go back to thatchurch.
That's a whole other topic fora different scenario, but yeah

(01:31:47):
me in the wild.

Speaker 1 (01:31:48):
I was my landlord team to talk about a problem
with the lease, the building Iwas leasing for work, yeah, and
he shook my hand and it was justtoo close.
I was like, huh, that's verysimilar to like a Freemason
handshake and he showed me hisring.
I was like, oh shit, he's amember of So-and-So Lodge and

(01:32:11):
I'm like that's my lodge, likehe was a member of my lodge.

Speaker 2 (01:32:14):
And then why have I never seen you before?

Speaker 1 (01:32:16):
Let me tell you I had a great relationship with him
after that.
So here's the thing why are youtreating your brother special?
We're all members of the samehuman fraternity, right?
We have the same almightyparents, we agree, and we're
supposed to aid support andprotect each other.

Speaker 2 (01:32:34):
And again, all these conversations that you guys are
going to have in your lodge.
You should be able to havethese conversations with guard
fully lowered.
You shouldn't be in a defensivemindset if you're going into
talking about a topic at lodgeand if you're one of those
brothers that you feel yourselfgetting emotionally compromised
in that conversation, disengage.

Speaker 1 (01:32:53):
Yeah, cool as that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:55):
It's so easy just to take a step back.
All right, brothers, I'm donefor now.
I may jump in later, but that'sokay.
That is totally okay.
That is a person who is showingrestraint and self-control and
I respect that a lot more Me too.

Speaker 1 (01:33:08):
That means you're being a Mason, and that's what
we are all trying to do.
Dang right, that's awesome,this fraternity With that.
We appreciate you guys hangingout so long with us.
I hope you got something out ofthis for your watch.
If you did make sure you tellme how awesome you are, if you
didn't make sure you tell Matthow much you hate us yeah,

(01:33:28):
definitely tell me.

Speaker 2 (01:33:29):
my email is Chris on the level podcastcom no, you
didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:33:35):
No, you didn't.
You can catch us on any socialmedia platform, leave a public
comment or privately message us.
Yeah, it is Chris on the levelpodcast.
No, we don't, we'll see.
You can catch us on any socialmedia platform leave a public
comment or privately message us.
Yeah, it is Chris.
On the Level Podcast.
No, we don't.
We'll see you next time.
For now, on the Level Podcastis out.

Speaker 2 (01:33:49):
Out you.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Brotherhood Blueprint: 10 Critical Changes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

The Brotherhood Blueprint: 10 Critical Changes

Crime Junkie