Top 10 Reasons Christians Dislike Freemasonry

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
All we have to decide is what to do with the time of
the Skeletons.
You've reached the Internet'shome for all things masonry.
Join On the Level Podcast as weplumb the depths of our ancient
craft and try to unlock themysteries, dispel the fallacies
and utilize the teachings ofFreemasonry to unlock the

(00:25):
greatness within each of us.
I have you now.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Let's go, yeah, get it.
Welcome back, I love it.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
I love it Please.
I love it, I love it, Please,please, hold your applause.
Seriously, not for us guys.
We're not worthy.
We're not worthy.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Buddy, how are you?

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Man, I'm good, good, Good to be back, good to be back
.
I saw some other people thoughtit was good that we were back.
So, hey, hey, people didn'tforget about us.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, either that or like.
Who are these guys?
This is phenomenal.
Just a Freemasonry Another one.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yes, yes, we were one of the OGs actually.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
I don't know.
I feel like there's a lot ofpodcasts out there these days
and people talk a lot aboutFreemasonry.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
They do, which is going to lead into what we're
talking about today.
Unfortunately for you, me andand all the other brothers that
we have out there, the ones thatget the most views are
typically the ones that are likethey're worshiping space aliens
and it's like, come on, guys,Like come on, let's talk about
masonry what it is, what itisn't, let's get into it.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
I think that's Scientology that worships space
aliens.
I think it's anybody who has adestination with Kool-Aid in
their future.
I mean, what even you knowthese days?
Space aliens?
It's like there's a whole lotof religion being put into the
alien stuff these days.
Yeah, I don't know if you'refollowing.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
If I'm being honest with you, like whenever it comes
to conspiracy stuff, like I'mshoulder deep into conspiracy
stuff, like, so you're probablygoing to hear me throw off some
stuff today where it's like Matt, what on earth are you on?
And I just want to be clearit's February, I'm doing a sober
month, so these are all clearthoughts that I have or that I
have on Freemasonry andconspiracy theories.

(02:30):
Just stuff I've read.
Not stuff I believe, but stuffI've read.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
Well, you being active in your church, you got a
lot of people that came up toyou and said things like oh, you
know this right.
You know that they were tryingto prove to you how bad the
fraternity is, so that's why weare creating this episode, which
is top 10 conspiracy theoriesabout Freemasonry that come from
the Christian church.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
And, for the record, when Chris and I started talking
about this idea, I sent him alist of almost 20 that I just
rattled off off the top of myhead.
So yeah, there's all kinds ofstuff that you know.
Christians do have authenticissues with Freemasonry, which I
get it, I understand it.
There are some things that arethat are cause for concern,
especially given the fact thatwe are an organization with

(03:17):
secrets.
Christians typically don't likethe fact that we are an
organization with secrets.
Um, but every organization hassecrets.
I mean, show me the innerworkings of your checkbook, you
know.
Show me exactly your P&Lstatement for your household.
That is proprietary information.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Can I walk into the Vatican vaults and just see
everything I want for myself?
I want to so bad.
Are there secrets?

Speaker 2 (03:38):
there that I'm not allowed to see.
I think if Tom Hanks andNicolas Cage could get together
and just waltz right into and dolike a mashup between the Da
Vinci Code and National Treasurelet's have that Like that's
what I want, where they justbust open the doors and do it.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
I could definitely go for that, yeah.
But I don't think Freemasonryis very coy about the fact that
the secrets they keep aretraditional secrets.
It's modes of recognition.
It's like secret words todenote which degree you're in,
like, yeah, it's not likethey're keeping a secret from
mankind, it's not like they'rekeeping secret knowledge from

(04:15):
people.
Um, so there's obviously, andto some degree I think, masonry.
Masonry capitalizes on that,because it's one of the reasons.
I've talked to thousands of menabout joining Freemasonry and
I'd say 80% of the time one ofthe reasons they want to join is
to find out the truth forthemselves, because they've been
hearing all this stuff outthere.

(04:37):
So that mystery kind of drawspeople to the fraternity.
So I think, you know, ifMasonry came out and told the
secrets, we probably would neverget any new members because
they'd be like what?

Speaker 2 (04:47):
that was it yeah that's it, yeah, and even still,
I think the the most I'm noteven going to say compelling,
but it was actually a good pointand I had a decent rebuttal to
it is they were like well, ifthere's all these good teachings
in masonry, why don't you makethem available to the public?
I mean, everybody needs to knowabout all this and I'm like no,
because we don't want everybodyin masonry.
I'm sorry, but there arecertain people outside of the

(05:09):
fraternity that should never bein the fraternity.
They're troublemakers, or thereare people currently in the
fraternity that should not bepart of the fraternity, and I
think that's a fair statement.
I will not expand on that, as myMasonic trials coming up in a
couple of weeks.
I'm not even talking aboutanything other than a couple of

(05:29):
local people that I know whereit's like local, get some better
choices local people or localpeople, local people, yeah, and,
by the way, if I sound weird,brothers, I apologize.
Currently in the state ofFlorida, the trees are all
fornicating and it has nowinfected my nose.
And also it's the end ofstrawberry season and I'm in the
winter strawberry capital ofthe world, so as those

(05:49):
strawberries begin to die in thefields, it just makes the whole
area smell interesting.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
I mean, that's pretty , you know, I'm sure when
they're out it's a beautifulsight to see all those
strawberries.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Oh, it's awesome, it's awesome.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Chocolate, cover those suckers and I join you
Gross.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Really.
All right, yeah, terrible.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
So my question to you is do we go from like 10 to 1,
like a countdown of the top 10things?
I actually number them where 1are the easy ones to deal with
and then they get more difficultas you go down.
So we'll start with the easiestand wind up at the most
difficult, right?

Speaker 2 (06:27):
yeah, so I mean, but I like the way that I probably
should have renumbered them um,or redone them the way you said,
because then everyone's on pinsand needles for number one, but
now you got to be on pins andneedles for number 10.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Number 10 yeah, we'll just opposite these numbers.
So numbers starting at number.
The most common things thatyou're probably going to hear
that if you're a Freemason aboutFreemasonry is Freemasonry has
its own path to salvation.
Yeah, you do hear that a lot,that it's going to take the
place of church in your life andallegedly Freemasons have their

(07:02):
own Bible that takes out thefirst commandment.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, the first commandment being that thou
shalt have no other gods beforeme.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
So, um, a lot of people have your Masonic Bible,
no doubt, and I'm sure you'vechecked it for yourself, right?
I've got four of them, Okay.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, I've got four Masonic Bibles.
Uh, one is from, oh man, it'sfrom like the 1940s, but it's
some friends of ours that hergrandfather was a Mason and
she's like, hey, I've got no usefor this, Do you want this?
And I'm like, yes, I want that.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, so, and of course I.
Of course I go to the OldTestament and I check the 10

(07:38):
commandments and, hey, is thisaltered in any way, shape or
form?
And the short answer is no.
Every.
I've checked Bibles on altars.
I've checked Bibles that wekeep tucked in the altars
because we always have a backupfor some odd reason.
I've checked every MasonicBible that I can get my hands on
and immediately go to the TenCommandments.
And okay, what is the first onethat's there People?

(07:59):
The Masonic Bible or theFreemason Bible?
That's, there is a standardKing James Bible, which is not
my favorite translation of theBible, by the way, but it is a
standard King James Bible.
It's not even the Trump Bible.
Some would say it's the bestBible.
I wouldn't say that personally,but some would say it was the
best.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Everyone says it's the best.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
Everyone says it's the best.
You pay $100 for a Bible.
People say it's the best.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
But no, it's just a standard King James Bible.
That's all it is.
I mean, it's not standard inthe sense that there are some
pictures added to it, right,like we have some George
Washington's photos in there, Ithink King Solomon's pictured in
there, so maybe it's in thebeginning, right.
They talk a little bit about,like, how Freemasonry relates to
it a little bit, but thenyou've got essentially the same
bible everyone else has dude.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
My daughter has a bible where daniel and the
lion's den.
The lion has a smile on itsface.
Let that sink in for as long asyou need well, here's the other
thing.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
Um, they probably feel outsiders probably feel
like we're coveting our Bibleabove another Bible, um, and we
can explain that very easily.
So when you become a masterMason which for an average
person takes in the in theUnited States, at least in the
jurisdiction of Florida, aboutsix months on average to work

(09:20):
your way through the threedegrees Sure, if you're in
England it might be three yearsor seven years, but here it's
about six months and it's a longjourney.
You're doing a lot of work andat the end of your Master Mason
degree you are presented withyour personal Masonic Bible and
inside that Bible are yourdegree dates and the signatures
of everybody that was there theday that you were made a Master

(09:43):
Mason.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
So it is kind of a keepsake and a memorabilia item
for you personally and your partin the fraternity.
So I don't know how you guysdid it down in sarasota, but at
my lodge we only got our bible,the working tools and our apron
after we did our master masongive back, do y'all?
Guys do the same thing, or isit right whenever you're raised?

Speaker 1 (10:05):
We award the Bible the same day of their Master
Mason degree.
After the lecture Okay.
Because it's given to everyoneregardless.
Not everyone's required to do agive back for their Master
Mason degree.
So obviously, if you don't doyour give back, you should still
get your Bible.
What you won't get is yourapron.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
So that's obviously a whole separate presentation.
For once you do get your MasterMason proficiency, but we like
to give it out that day.
They actually get their duescard that day.
A lot of lodges don't have thatprepared and ready, but we have
a great secretary process inour lodge so they have it all
ready for them.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
They're handed their dues for that, they're handed
their card, they're handed theirbible.
They get it all on the samenight.
I didn't get my dues card untilprobably I think it was like a
month and a half after, becauseI I was raised on december 9th
of 23 and I think it was injanuary I went over to lakeland
lodge and one of the brothersover there, I mean, was flipped
out that I didn't have a duescard.
And yet I was trying to attenda meeting there and he's like
why don't you have your duescard?
And I'm like, bro, like theyhaven't been sent out yet.

(11:11):
And so I had him look up on theGrand Lodge website.
I had already been installed asjunior deacon at this point and
so I had him look up on theGrand L deacon and he's like
well, do you have your id on you?
Of course I have my id.
So like, check it.
And finally the secretarycalled us back and he's like
yeah, I just haven't gottenaround to sending out the dues

(11:32):
cards yet.
So there you go even still atlakeland lodge.
Here we are in february.
I still don't have my dues cardfor lakeland lodge, but I've
got amity, so hopefully thatworks out.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, Amity should work in the state of Florida
Should.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
You have some of the brothers that do not like Amity
at all.
They want you to have theraised seal dues card and
they're like no, I'm notaccepting that crap.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
And I'm like come on, guys, I take it they were over
the age of 60.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yes, so either way back to the point of Freemasonry
having its own path tosalvation.
If you're listening to this andyou are not a Freemason, or as
we like to call you, they'reprofane.
Please don't take offense to it.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
But it sounds bad.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
I know it's the profane.
If you're listening to this andyou're not a Mason and you are
staunchly against Freemasonry, Iwant to go ahead and put this
point to bed.
Freemasonry does not have itsown path to salvation, while it
is an organization that hasmultiple different religions and
faiths in it.
On the petition that you fillout and you can go to any Grand

(12:34):
Lodge website anywhere in thecountry and you can download
their petition and it asks youflat out if you have your
religious stance solved, figuredout for your own there is no
path to salvation in Freemasonry.
Now we do talk about that.
There is a place that we areheaded to, that we are traveling
to, and that is the allegoryfor heaven.

(12:54):
So for me, being a Christian,that for me is talking about
heaven and it's talking aboutthe kingdom of God.
So, but for some of our Muslimbrothers, that could be talking
about their iteration of that,or Jews, or whatever the case
might be, you have to have yourreligion figured out and
Freemasonry is a supplement tohelp with your faith and
practice.

(13:15):
It's a supplement to help makeyou a better man.
It is not the final end all beall of.
Oh, we have our own path tosalvation?
We don't.
It does not exist of.
Oh, we have our own path tosalvation.
We don't.
It does not exist.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Right.
So I think one thing you saidI'll correct or add to it.
You said we have multiplereligions as part of Freemasonry
.
But not really.
I guess they're not part ofFreemasonry.
I guess they're accepted by thefraternity.
That's fair, there's no realreligion as part of our
fraternity at all.

(13:45):
Um, you know, we religionsrepresented.
I should probably yeah, Iprobably should have worded that
better but honestly, you know,if you look at any lodge in the
united states, the only religionyou're gonna see represented is
probably christianity.
Yeah, I don't think you couldreally say any other religion
maybe.
No, you could see, like, othercultures, but not other

(14:06):
religions.
I think Christianity is theonly one directly represented,
because every lodge, at least inthe state of Florida and I
believe in the entire UnitedStates, does have at least a
depiction of the two saints' jobon their wall.
Yep, so you're going to findthose Christian symbols in every
freemason lodge in the state.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, and even, and even still.
I mean, I had a conversation.
Uh, you know, we have a muslimbrother over at uh, over at
lakeland.
I again, I love this guy, umand so he and I were having a
conversation about the threeabrahamic faiths.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong,but wasn't it?
This was long before I everjoined masonry.
But wasn't there a push throughthe Grand Lodge to only have
the three Abrahamic faiths aspart of Freemasonry here in the

(14:50):
state of Florida?

Speaker 1 (14:51):
We had a Grandmaster try to pass some legislation for
that, yeah, but the brotherswouldn't allow it.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
So it got voted down by the craft.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
I think Pete Holmes.
There's a comedian named PeteHolmes.
I love Pete Holmes.
There's a comedian named PeteHolmes.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
I love Pete Holmes.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Oh, he's great.
He talked about it at one pointin a standup special.
He goes God is the name that weput as a blanket over the
mysteries of the universe, andit's like I'm not entirely mad
about that.
That's a good agnostic stanceof I don't know how to quantify
whatever that entity is, butthere's something there Right.
And that's just the first step.
Whatever that entity is, butthere's something there Right.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
And that's just the first step.
Yeah, I mean, I know it'stalking about religion gets
hairy, but I have really read alot about a lot of different
religions and also about history.
So as you study history and thehistory of religions you start
to see commonalities appearing,you know, appearing through time
, and I know people don't wantto accept that or talk about

(15:52):
that.
Their religion came fromsomething else.
Everyone thinks their religionis the only thing that's ever
existed.
Unfortunately, if you look athumanity, it's not true.
We have a huge smorgasbord ofreligions that you find some
common elements of in most ofthem throughout time, definitely
in the major ones that havestuck around through the ages

(16:14):
and the fraternity, I think,kind of celebrates that.
A lot of our degrees teachmoral lessons and many of the
characters in our degrees arecharacters from the Old
Testament that are kind ofplucked out and fleshed out.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
That's fair to say.
I mean, we probably don't takefrom Christian figures or Muslim
figures or any of the others.
So I guess that probably leadsto one of the later bullet
points we're going to talk about, which is the Jewish faith
being preferred.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
But I would say, it's not there.
At the end of the day, like Isaid, it's you know the Bible,
the fact that we have a Bible.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
it celebrates the fact that, as Masons, we all
believe and in Florida we makethe Christian Bible the one
that's preferred.
If you go into any lodge inFlorida, it's actually required
that a Christian Bible be openand placed on our altar in the
center of the lodge.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
So it kind of pokes a hole in the hole.
Masons want to replaceChristianity.
We couldn't function without itin Florida.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Well, and again, I think what a lot of Christians
and again I'm speaking as aChristian like I want to be
clear about this, I'm speakingof this from a Christian
perspective is what someChristians seem to have an issue
with is that Freemasonry is notexclusively a Christian
organization.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Right that is their whole big ordeal Right and it's
never going to be, and I knowI've seen people get actually
upset about it in varioussettings in the fraternity yeah,
mostly when someone says aprayer.
I was the president of MasterMason Association and that is
basically where all theprincipal officers from all the

(17:57):
lodges in one district cometogether for a once a month
meeting to talk about what'sgoing on.
And we do in Freemasonry,always pray before anything that
we do and usually at the end ofeverything we do.
So I asked a random person tosay a prayer beforehand and they
said a christian prayer andsaid on jesus name, I pray amen.
And everyone said amen, youknow, or the way we say it, and

(18:20):
things went on.
However, I had multiple peoplecome up to me and say they were
offended that I allowed that tohappen because they were Jewish
or Muslim people who felt thatthat wasn't right in Freemasonry
.
So I see why Christians wouldget upset about the fact that
you don't pray to Jesusspecifically, because that is a

(18:41):
uniquely Christian thing, right.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Jesus being the one you pray to Right.
But here's the counter that Iwould give to that.
Knowing the scriptures, the waythat I do is Jesus.
Whenever he said the Lord'sPrayer, jesus was not praying to
himself, he was praying to God.
So there is nothing wrong as aChristian or a Freemason to pray
to God.
That is perfectly acceptable inthe Christian faith.

(19:04):
And if you are a Christian or aFreemason to pray to God, that
is perfectly acceptable in theChristian faith.
And if you are a Christian thatsays, oh no, we're only
supposed to pray to Christ, Iwould counter you with this no
one goes to the Father, butthrough me You're going to the
Father.
You're speaking to the Fatherin the Christian faith through
the name of Jesus.
You're not speaking directly toJesus.

(19:24):
You're using Jesus as a vehicleto speak to God.
There's nothing wrong in theChristian faith with praying to
God, and I think that'sperfectly acceptable.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
There you go, and I think this is why Freemasonry
has publicly been around forover 300 years and it lives in a
lot of different lands, thatthat religions change depending
on the land that you're in.
But the one thing no one reallygets upset about is god.

(19:55):
Right, we all kind of agree togod being the one that we can
all agree.
I may not be the same one inour minds, but that's okay.
It doesn't have to be the sameone, because in Freemasonry it's
a very individual personaljourney.
So when you say a prayer, it'sto your God when you pray, when
you say a prayer.

(20:16):
So Matt and I could be sayingthe same prayer and at the end
or in the beginning, when wementioned God, be thinking of a
different religion.
But it works because God is avery general thing and in
Freemasonry they try to make iteven more general by calling God
by names like the architect ofthe universe or the great

(20:36):
architect or the grand architector the supreme architect of the
universe.
And again, I don't know whogets offended by this.
I guess you're not using the,the language they like.
That's not the language mychurch likes or my mosque likes,
not how we do it, but that'snot what we're doing here.
We're not replacing the churchor the mosque, or you know, it's

(20:57):
a supplement, that's all it isand we have to refer to our
creator as something, and sothey're trying to go as general
as they can here.
We can all agree that whoeverwe're praying to created the
universe.
Right?
No one's going to get offendedby that idea.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
And obviously he was phenomenal at geometry because
he set everything in time andit's existed.
For if you're one of theliteral deists from Genesis,
it's the Bible is anywhere, orthe earth is anywhere from six
to 8,000 years old, or if youbelieve carbon dating, it's
billions of years old and allthe sun, moon and stars all

(21:32):
follow the same path, Right?
Whoever, whatever created thiswas phenomenal at their job.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Right and Freemasonry really celebrates that in a way
that I don't even know thatpeople think about often enough
in their church, which is thebeauty of it all.
In our lectures, especially thefellow craft lecture, we talk
about astronomy and how this iswhere you really see the
strength and the beauty of yourcreator, when you look to the

(22:00):
heavens, plus geometry, like youyou said, because it's a
repeating pattern that isconsistent.
Um, I saw, I saw ricky jar jarvase.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
I think he's an atheist guy um, he's so pompous,
it annoys me, but his roast ofthe grammys a couple years ago.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
He said yes, man, so good you could take any religion
and erase it from history andit probably won't ever come back
the same way that it was.
But you can erase all ofscience and math from history
and it will come back exactlythe same way it was, because
those things are just true,they're repeatable, they're

(22:37):
verifiable, they're observable.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
I don't know if I would put science in that, and
the reason why I say that is youknow, whenever some person gets
up on tv and they said trustthe science, um, we all know who
I'm talking about.
Science changes that's thewhole purpose of science is to
disprove a thing and to prove anew thing science is always the
best idea of what we have aboutsomething at any given moment

(23:02):
yeah, so.
So I don't know if you could saythat science or even
mathematics would come back theexact same way, because, okay,
who's to say someone's usingmetric instead of empirical?
Um, or you know who's to saythat, uh, you know that gravity
is going to have a different,you know a a different thing to
go with it.
But, either way, science isconstantly changing.
I don't think it would evercome back exactly the same way.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah, hopefully it would come back better.
So what I've noticed is, asthis UAP and all this crazy
stuff is becoming more and moreprevalent in the conversation,
at least in America, you see alot of scientists that are
acting like their science is areligion.
It's like no, that's not what Ibelieve, believe, that's not

(23:48):
what I think.
So you can't think that.
And it's like hold on a secondnow.
Science is supposed to be opento new ideas.
You can't say anything issettled in science, uh, or you,
you know you could rely on itbecause you tested it and
repeated it.
But when you get newinformation, you have to find a
way to account for that in yourworldview as a scientist, I
would think.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
But you hear a lot of scientists say that's
ridiculous, that's silly, youknow, whatever, and either way
back to the prayer thing.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
So, and then we'll move on from this data point.
But some of the people have anissue the fact that we end a
prayer with so mode it be and wedon't end it with the word amen
.
So allow me to read to you whatthe translation of the word
amen is.
Amen is a word of Hebrew origincommonly used in religious

(24:39):
contexts across variouslanguages and cultures.
Its primary translation fromHebrew is so be it or truly so
mode it be is Gothic Latin forlet it be or so be it, which is
the same thing.
It's the same thing.
It's the exact same thing.
It's just using a differentlanguage.
It's like we're saying Godinstead of Dios.

(24:59):
It's the same thing.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
It's a little bit silly One of those things that
somebody who has an issue withthat just isn't thinking that
deeply about anything.
Probably.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Honestly, it's my biggest frustration whenever I
talk to some of these types,because they are all arrogance
and little to no knowledge.
You know, for example, we'vetalked on here before about, you
know, the young man in my youngadult class that had tattoos,
and some of the older members ofour church had an issue with
him having tattoos because ofthe book of Leviticus.

(25:33):
And I'm like, bro, if you'regoing to combat them, stay in
the book of Leviticus, becausethe rest of Leviticus says that
you're not supposed to eatunclean animals.
So no shellfish, no pork, noneof this stuff.
When's the last time you hadshrimp or lobster?
And then, of course that it'sstone your local gay people and
drag them outside the city gatesbefore the sun sets.

(25:54):
It's like stay in the book ofLeviticus.
Either all of it applies ornone of it applies.
Pick a lane.
I don't care which one you pick.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
I agree with that 100% and I asked a friend of
mine who's Jewish about thatspecifically, because I know a
lot of Jewish friends who arevery careful about what they eat
because it is written that wayin the Old Testament.
But the more Reform I thinkthey're called, they have a
Reform Jewish branch and he said, no, we've realized that the

(26:22):
intent of that was becausepeople were getting sick eating
that stuff.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yes, but we now know that Pig is a very disgusting
animal.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
You can cook it and it helps you not get sick and
therefore we don't follow thatanymore because we have ways to
prevent the issue they werehaving from happening to us,
which is a very real like.
I appreciate that outlook onthings.
Yeah, I get that it's aslippery slope of changing
things.
I get that you don't want tolike change your belief system

(26:52):
or it might turn into somethingelse, but I think you know and
that, like, don't eat thisbecause God said so.
Well, okay, but he was tryingto help you at the time and now
we have fire and we know how tocook it.
We know how to cook pork at acertain temperature to kill the
things in it, as well asshellfish 165 degrees for those

(27:13):
scoring at home, unless you'regoing to work, but over a long
cook, and then that's wheneveryou wrap, because you've now hit
the stall.
You're welcome wow, I don't knowabout shellfish.
You probably don't cookshellfish, do you?
I don't.
I don't eat shellfish anyway ohdude, yeah I'll.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
I'll throw lobster on a grill in a heartbeat.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Oh my gosh, it's so lobster yeah, yeah, yeah, but I
hear I think of like the oystersand the nasty things people eat
no, no, so I'll do.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
I'll do scallops, shrimp and lobster, those, those
are my shellfish.
So every year we we go to thekeys for mini season, um, and so
we've been doing that eversince I was a kid, so yeah, so
come July, early August, you'llsee me I'll have like scratches
all up and down my arms andeverything.
It's from their antennas, soall their horns face forward as
like a weapon of offense.

(27:56):
So it's like you know they'llsit there and they'll just
scratch me all to kingdom come.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
And I'm just like doesn't change my day, you're
delicious, I don't care.
Well, there we go.
I hope that we've answeredsufficiently the idea that
Freemasonry has its own path tosalvation.
It doesn't.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
It only took us 35 minutes to answer one question.
How long do you have today, sir?

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Here we go, we could do this.
We could do this.
Number nine, the god or godsthat Freemasonry worships, the
great architect of the universe,are things that they fear or
think is evil.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yeah, and they pull this from.
I can't say the name, accordingto our obligation, but what
they say is that there is anentity that is a combination of
Jesus, baal and Osiris, and sothat is the God that Freemasons

(28:53):
worship, and that's not evenremotely close.
So whenever we refer to God andFreemasons, if you have a
Muslim standing to your rightand you have a Jew standing to
your left and we pray to thegreat architect of the universe,
in my mind I'm picturing God ofthe Old Testament, yahweh.
Whenever you have a Muslimbrother standing next to you,

(29:14):
he's praying to Allah.
Whenever you have a Jewishbrother standing next to you on
the other side, he's alsopraying to the God of the Old
Testament.
So, yahweh, so again it.
Freemasonry is an individualjourney.
There's no cut dry standardprocedure of, oh no, we're all
praying to this one entitythat's not found in either one
of our holy books.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
That's a minute.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
That's our god yeah, yeah, oh gosh, we're going to
get into that too.
No, um, yeah no, it's notbaphomet, not, you know, lucifer
or Beelzebub.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
I mean the Anunnaki?

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah, it's the Anunnaki and it's not the lizard
people.
It's not lizard people.
We're not praying to lizardpeople, okay.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
The thing about this is they don't tell you who God
is.
Like we said in the beginning,you should know that before you
come to this fraternity andwhoever you said is the God that
you worship, is okay with thefraternity.
They're not going to try tochange your mind or say you're

(30:15):
wrong or what about this or whatabout that?
It's never going to come up.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
And back to that point, that specific point that
you just brought up.
If Christians have an issuewith Freemasonry not being an
exclusive Christian organization, you better not be a member of
Costco or Sam's Club or yourlocal gym or your local golf
club.
If an organization has to be100%, exclusively Christian for
you to be a part of thatorganization, you can't go

(30:42):
anywhere.
You can't even go to Publix tobuy groceries, because you're
going to get atheists in there.
You're going to get Muslims andJews in there.
Of course the Jews aren't goingto hit the pork section, but
that's beside the point.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
I mean, if you just look around inside your own
church, you'll probably see somepeople that are questionable if
they really believe enough tobe considered the same religion
as you.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
Well, and still, what is a church?
A church?
Christ said I did not come forthe healthy, I came for the sick
right.
A church is a place for sickpeople who are trying to become
better.
What is masonry?
It is good men trying to becomebetter.
That's all it is.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
That's right.
I mean, at the end of the day,that's all it is.
There are ceremonies, I agree,but every religion has its own
ceremony.
Every fraternity has its ownceremony.
You join a fraternity incollege, you're going to have a

(31:37):
ceremony attached to it.
This isn't uncommon, it's notout of the ordinary.
And it's not out of theordinary.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
And even if you look at certain ceremonies within the
church, whether it be theLutheran Church, the Catholic
Church, baptist Pentecostal, theones that handle snakes I don't
know what those ones are, butthey all have their own ritual
or ceremony or whatever titleyou want to give it.
That is not exclusively foundin the scriptures.
That is something that thechurch fathers early on of that

(32:02):
specific denomination.
They're the ones that createdthat and instituted that.
So they've just moved forwardwith because it's tradition.
Now, this is the way that wemove forward.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
And how many branches of Christianity are there today
?
Too many.
Do you even know that?

Speaker 2 (32:17):
No, I do not know that.
So I've been a part of aLutheran church, a Baptist
church there are more than45,000 denominations of
Christianity Doesn't spreadCause, even in the, even in the,
the denomination that I comefrom, the church of Christ,
there's multiple branches withinthat and you have certain
churches of Christ.
That and this is how petty itgets in the church of Christ,
and I'm sorry my COC-ers, uh,but we are petty.

(32:38):
Um, they're very legalistic andso it's like if that church of
Christ down the road has akitchen, well, paul said that
you know, do you not havekitchens at home to eat food at
home?
So that church down the roadthat has a kitchen is now anti
church of Christ because it hasa kitchen?
No, dummy, it's that they havea kitchen.
And Paul was talking aboutgetting full and drunk on the

(32:58):
Lord's Supper.
Read it in context, my guy.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
That's beyond my understanding text.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
My guy I.
That's beyond my understanding.
Uh, I could.
If you want to get intodenominations, I will wreck the
rest of this podcast aboutdenominations.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
There are a lot of them, though we can agree
there's a lot and here's thething.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
If you even want to consider it from an aspect of
spiritual warfare, the bestthing that the enemy of
christians, satan, the bestthing that satan came up with,
was denominations.
You mean to tell me that we cansplit and disagree on something
petty and stupid and neverspeak to these people again.
It's like no wonder the world'sdevolving into chaos is because
believing people are notstanding up and saying there is

(33:37):
a better way to conduct yourselfthan this madness that you're
doing.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
I will um.
I'll go a step further run itand say that, uh, as somebody
who was in a situation where Iwas an atheist at one point in
my life my son had an accidentthat changed my perspective on
things I struggled to get intochurch.
Um, every time I went I feltlike I'd get further from the

(34:03):
relationship I was trying tocreate with my creator.
Um, it was not good and uh,freemius and re has really
helped do that in a way that Ididn't get when I went to church
, and I think it's because it'snot so dogmatic, like like it
depends on which church you goto, which rules they have and

(34:24):
you know who's good and who'sbad and all that stuff, whereas
you can go into any fraternallodge of Freemasonry and they
follow the same rules.
No one's going to, no one willcare if I'm one denomination of
Christian or another or I don'tknow what to call myself.
No one's going to care or judgeme as long as I'm trying to be
better as a man.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yes, and, by the way, so on our last podcast we got a
comment on how we shouldn't betalking about politics within
Freemasonry.
Do you realize how manycomments we're going to get just
on covering these topics righthere?

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Oh, it's going to be a lot.
We shouldn't be talking aboutreligion.
It's like guys, we can talkabout religion.
We're not in a tiled meeting,like you know.
We can discuss it.
That's something we'verepeatedly um dealt with, and
our philosophy has always beenif you struggle to talk about
those things, you haven'tlearned your early lessons in
masonry yet, so you need to goback and check yourself.

(35:17):
Uh, clearly, we're not allowedto talk about this stuff in an
open lodge, a tiled lodge rather, which, which I totally get.
Why would would you?
You're trying to do business,you got a small amount of time.
Why would you be talking aboutthis?
Stuff Doesn't make sense.
However, freemasons are notprohibited from talking about
anything, unless you live in thestate of Florida, and then

(35:38):
maybe you won't be allowed totalk about certain things.
But we're not supposed to beprohibited from talking.
We're supposed to explore, askquestions together and learn
together from our differentexperiences.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
And for what it's worth for the section that you
edited out.
I agree with you.
So future you like in a coupleof days whenever you're editing
this, just know, Thank you, I'mwith you bro.
From both this me and future me.
Yeah, exactly, okay.
So number eight Freemasonry andSatan worship.
Are Satanists allowed?

(36:11):
So one of the big things thatkeeps getting thrown around in
the social media circles andeven the preaching circles, like
there's a preacher out of Ithink I think it's out of Nevada
or something like that he wearsan amoeba blazer whenever he
preaches.
He did like a 14 or 15 partstudy on Freemasonry and he's
like, oh, they exclusivelyworship Satan.
So, yeah, exclusively worshipSatan.

(36:33):
Now my thing is and I'll betransparent about this I studied
Freemasonry for almost 15 years.
Before I ever approached theWest Gate, before I ever filled
out a petition, I studied thefire out of it.
Before I ever filled out apetition, I studied the fire out
of it and I realized that a lotof the stuff that comes out
about Freemasonry is typicallyconspiracy theories.
It's people that were kickedout of the fraternity, people
that were looking to make aquick buck, people that felt
like they were wronged by thefraternity, whatever the case

(36:55):
might be, and so it kind of ledme into it.
So I'd be lying if I said thatat least 20% of me, that at
least 20% of me whenever Ijoined Masonry.
A good 20% of me was trying tosee is there anything nefarious
here?
Because if there is somethingnefarious and something as bad
as everybody says that it is,yeah, I'm going to blow the top
off this thing, you know, andactually expose something as

(37:16):
evil as this, especially as adevout Christian being.
In Freemasonry, and especiallyhaving gone down the York Rite,
I haven't found that at all, noteven a little bit.
If anything, it's actuallystrengthened and emboldened my
belief in Christianity to thepoint where I'm not just
following doctrine talkingpoints anymore, I'm not just
following tradition anymore.
I'm actually reading andstudying esoteric Christianity.

(37:39):
I'm studying the church fathers, and it's actually led me to a
much deeper understanding of myfaith, using the same tenets out
of Freemasonry that we talkabout.
It's also made my interactionsbetter, being able to keep my
passions under control.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Maybe it's a human thing we tend to lose the forest
for the trees.
You know, if you focus on themessage and the meaning more
than the legalistic side ofanything, you're going to be a
happier person, probably be abetter person.
So are we satan worshipers?
No, that one's easy.
Yeah and it's never mentioned inany of his forums that I'm

(38:15):
aware of, nor are we led to doanything.
You know the the worst I'veseen in the fraternity are the
people that caught up in thebureaucracy of it.
That's the worst I've seenpersonally and that's not part
of the fraternity.
That's a human problem.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
There's another data point we're going to get to.
It's number two on this list isthat Lucifer is mentioned in
some Masonic writings, but notin the in the aspect of what you
would think.
So more to come.
Stick to the end of the videoto see that data point.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
All right, that one was an easy one.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah, easy.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
Number seven.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Blood oaths.
So it is no secret whatsoeverand I've come to tackle this a
few different ways it is nosecret whatsoever that in the
entered apprentice degree thefellow craft and the master
mason there is an obligationthat you take and there is a
penalty for violating saidobligation.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
It has to do with a physical nature of oh, so is
that what they mean by bloodoaths?

Speaker 2 (39:15):
That's what I thought it meant Blood oaths is your
hand and like drip blood orsomething, and yeah that you
know they'll hang you by yourears and, you know, tickle your
feet with a feather until youcan't stand it anymore, and then
you confess to sin.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
No, we do take an obligation which is similar to
an oath, I guess.
No, it's not.
It can't be the same thing,Right.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
They refer to the obligation as a blood oath is
that if I do not fulfill this,then penalty will come upon me.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Fair enough.
So I mean, when I bought myhome I had to sign a paper that
said if I didn't make thepayments, they would take my
house, like I made an oath topay.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
So the counter to that would be is that, yeah, but
they're not going to, you know,physically harm you in any way.
You're just going to behomeless.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Sure, sure.
First, I'd like to know howthey know about that, because
that's one of the secrets ofFreemasonry are the obligations
right and the penalties.
It's because there's nothingsecret about Freemasonry anymore
.
Everything is out there,everything oath because we do

(40:29):
say there is a penalty toviolating the oath.
I have seen people violatetheir oath and the penalty is
certainly not what it was saidto be in the oath.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
No, they just get kicked out of the fraternity,
that's the penalty.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Your penalty is either suspension, expulsion or
reprimand.
Those are the penalties.
Right and reprimand doesn'tmean 18 lashes with a barbed
flange on your back.
It means hey, don't do thatagain.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Which is weird, because normally I pay extra for
that.
No, so, so even still, they,they, they harp on the fact that
there is a oath or anobligation within Freemasonry
and there is.
And so, again, I've come totackle this a handful of
different ways.
It depends on how far you wantto follow the logical argument.
Okay, so the logical argumentis well, you shouldn't do, you

(41:15):
shouldn't swear by anything inheaven or by your own head, or
you know, jesus talks about that.
Let your yes be yes and your nobe no, right, which is
perfectly fine.
I'm totally on board with that.
Have you ever signed to getyour license renewed?
Were you swear or affirm theinformation that you put on
there is true?
Or have you ever been sworn infor testimony at a planning or
commission hearing where youraise your right hand?

(41:37):
Do you swear or affirm thetestimony you're about to give
is the truth, whole truth andnothing but the truth.
Or I'll even take it a stepfurther have you ever been to a
marriage ceremony?
Yeah, a marriage ceremony saysforsaking all others until death
.
Do us part.
That is technically a bloodoath right and even still,
marriage ceremony or marriagevows are not found in the

(41:57):
scriptures at all.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
That is something that has been made up, that is,
you know, it's people that aretaking things way out of context
and exaggerating them.
Yes, is what that is Because,like you said, there are a lot
of oaths that are taken and Idon't think the one that we take
is any like we talked about.
The only penalty you're goingto get for breaking the oath
that you take, and in the worstcases, you can be expelled from
the fraternity.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Well and historically , you can't find any example of
a person being murdered in theway that Freemasons talk about
the penalty for violating ouroaths.
You can't find that anywhere atall.
But to kind of allude to afuture episode we're going to do
about, born in blood from johnrobinson, is the blood oaths and
the, those obligations that youtake and the oaths that you

(42:42):
swear is more tradition basedthan it is anything.
So rewind the clock back to the1300s whenever the knights,
templars, are being hunted downby the catholic church.
They had to be super selectiveon who they allowed into their
ranks.
Now, some would argue thatTemplars and Freemasons merged
at that point, which I'm in thatcamp of.
I believe they merged at thatpoint Because even if you look
at our mosaic floor, you look atthe symbol in the back of the

(43:04):
room that has the dot, thecircle and the two lines on the
outside.
If you look at all of that,that's all Templar symbology, or
it could be taken as Templarsymbology, and so they had to be
super particular about that ofa person being murdered in the
way that, uh, the obligationslay out exactly.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
There's one story which we talked about once on

(43:40):
this podcast of uh, a guy whodisappeared and there was
masonry was kind of publiclyinvolved in it.
So there was an accusation thatthey killed the guy, but that
was never proven.
I think it's just a story well,you know what it was.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Chris is because the person went in there and they
gave the sign and everything tothe judge and the judge just let
him go, man, if it only workedthat way.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
I would uh, I'd be suing everybody in winnie, yeah
if only it worked that way.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
If only it worked that way.
If only it worked that way inMasonic trials.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
We are halfway there.
Number five the pentagram.
So people say that inFreemasonry we use the pentagram
a lot.
You'll find it in the ScottishRite in some of the imagery that
they use.
I think particularly youmentioned the Eastern Star uses

(44:34):
it as one of their main symbols.
So I I got this light readingbook called the unlocking the
hidden keys of solomon.
So I heard about that book yeahyeah, solomon is a big part of
the masonic traditions.
He's a.
He's a character that appearsoften and is somewhat revered in
the fraternity, but he's alsoin every other major religion,
which is where they got it fromhis character, and he's widely

(44:57):
regarded as the greatest andwisest king who ever lived.
Right, you have the story inthe Bible of all the two women
and he's like oh, I cut the babyin half because he wanted to
see who really loved that child.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
I mean, how wise could you be with like 300 wives
and 700 concubines?
You don't have the time in theday, my guy, you're running a
kingdom.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
He, uh, he was a busy guy at Solomon but, um, in
reading the book, there is somuch symbolism that I think
Christians would view as satanic.
It was shocking to me.
Um, you really can't do any ofthe things that he's saying you
should do without usingpentacles and pentagrams, and so

(45:38):
I don't know at what point thepentagram became such a negative
thing or associated with Satanworship.
I guess Satan worshipersgenerally try to use reverse
imagery, so an upside down crossand upside down star David,
maybe, maybe that's how it gotthere.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
I'm glad you hit on that.
So the upside down cross is isone thing that people talk about
, where they're like oh, that'ssatanic, okay.
So I will remind everybody whois a Christian listening to this
, who has an issue withFreemasonry I'm not talking
about the brothers, I'm talkingabout the people that have an

(46:15):
issue with Freemasonry and someof the symbolism.
Whenever you see an upside downcross, that is not satanic.
That is the cross of St Peter.
If you remember your scriptures, peter was going, was said to
be crucified, and he said I amnot worthy to be sacrificed or
so sorry to be crucified in thesame manner as our Lord and the
Romans that were at the time.
They were like, bet, we got you.
So they crucified him upsidedown so that way it would not be

(46:37):
in the same manner as Christ.
So a lot of this stuff whereit's like oh no, that's satanic
imagery.
No, it's not.
You need to learn history alittle bit better.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
And the Eastern Star is such a good organization.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
It's hard to believe that.
It'd be hard for me to believethat they're worshiping satan.
Still, the five points of thestar.
If I'm not mistaken, it'salluding to five women found in
the old testament right, rightyeah like I'm not.
I'm not an eastern star person,I just I don't have the time for
it.
But that's one thing that,whenever we're setting it up and
I'm asking, I'm like hey, bythe way, you know what?
What are you know, all thesesymbols?
Are all these symbols andeverything?
Because there's like a sheathof weed, a chalice, all this

(47:14):
other stuff, and I'm like whatare all these things?
And they're like oh, it'srepresenting five women that are
found in the Old Testament,that were pivotal women in the
Old Testament, and Solomon.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
I think Christians view Solomon as a good guy right
In their religion.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Yeah, I don't know anybody that speaks ill of him.
If you're going to speak illabout Solomon, then you got to
speak ill about David, and then,of course, christ comes from
the line of David Right, theline of the tribe of Judah.
So if you're going to speak illabout that, you're speaking ill
about the line of Christ, andat that point you're treading on
dangerous territory.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
I just wanted to make sure, because if you've ever
looked at the seal of Solomon,apparently there is a pentagram
as part of the seal.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Ooh, now I want to look that up.
Stand by, ladies and gentlemen.
There's a star with five or sixpoints.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
Oh, that's just the Jewish star.
Yeah, and because?
Why?
Because he was Jewish.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
We need to get Jonathan Green back on this
podcast, where he starts talkingabout alchemy with the symbol.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Oh yeah, Alchemy was very important in Solomon's time
.
I don't see how Solomon was aSatanist when he used the
pentagram and his seal.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
No, I mean there's an argument to be made.
That you know.
So God told Solomon in the OldTestament where he said hey,
don't marry women from a foreignland because they'll pull you
astray.
And they did.
He married women from a foreignland.
They pulled him astray.
They'll pull you astray, andthey did.
He married women from a foreignland, they pulled him astray.
He ended up building uh altarsto bale ashtoreth and malik in
the high places.
So he built them in high, uh,you know highlight like up in

(48:41):
the mountains and everythingwhich was a point of like
respect and everything.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
So that's just how it was done.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Yeah, for him being so wise, he did some dumb stuff.
He really did um.
But at the end of the day, Idon't think all the symbolism of
freemasonry is what somechristians think that it is.
Um, you know, it's just.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
You need to learn history a little bit better yeah
, I mean we have symbols like acoffin and a skull and
crossbones and, of course,because it's related, people
assume you're worshiping thatidea of death.
That's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
A cross is a symbol of death.
In itself.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
it's a symbol of death.
Like Jesus died on it, itliterally was the vehicle of his
death.
So here, how can you notcomprehend that it doesn't mean
you're worshiping death.
He is a symbol that is part ofdeath.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Here was my first telltale sign that there are
some fanatics within thechristian religion.
So my family used to put on ahalloween party.
Uh, every year when I sayhalloween party, chris, these
were legendary halloween partieswe would take our barn.
Uh, we had like a, like a fouror five thousand square foot,
like a metal barn that we wouldconvert that into a haunted

(49:51):
house, so it would, and like wewould connect two barns together
.
So we have like the wood barnwhere the company started at,
and then we had the metal barnthat was for storage.
We'd empty all of it out,create the, the everything I
mean.
At one point one guy gave us hisold vehicle, his old truck that
he had.
He was like, oh, I'm just goingto get rid of this old truck,
do you guys want it?
We're like, yeah, we absolutelywant it.
We flipped it in the ditch onthe way to our house and we're

(50:13):
stopping people.
Like we had a cop car set upand everything.
We were stopping people andwe're like, hey, do you know
this person?
Can you get out and identifythis person and the person under
the sheet?
Would you know, jump out andscare them.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Funniest things ever.
But I remember there was a ladyin the church who had an issue
with us throwing a Halloweenparty, because everything to do
with Halloween is satanic, andwe sat there and we thought
about it for a little bitActually, my mom was the one who
rebutted her on this and she'slike well, what about a skeleton
?
You have a skeleton inside yourbody.
Does that mean that you'resatanic?
Well, no.

(50:46):
What about bats?
What about pumpkins?
Well, what about all?
And she well, what aboutpumpkins?
Well, what about all?
And she started just listing iton and on and on because we
didn't have, like you know,demons and everything flying
around.
No, it was just like we had aguy in a jason mask with a
chainsaw that we took the bladeoff of, like that's, that's what
we had going on yeah, my wifegrew up in a very conservative
family and they did notcelebrate halloween.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
Her family doesn't believe that.
They think that Halloween isworshiping Satan or something.
I guess is what they think.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
It's fine if you want to think that and you want to
apply those standards to yourown house, but if you have like
my daughter, you know, like thispast year for Halloween we
dressed up as my wife was Moana,I was Maui, so I had like this
big inflatable costume.
I think I sent you a picture ofit.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
You did, I've had like this big inflatable costume
.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
I think I sent you a picture of it, you did.
I've got like this biginflatable costume with a wig
because I'm bald and I have tohave one of those.
So, by the way, how do youpeople do it with hair?
Disgusting, I was sweating alldown the back of my neck, gross,
anyways, thank you.
And so my daughter was hey, heythe Chicken, and so it's like
all right, we went around andjust asked people for candy.
You know, it was great, it wasa great time.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
There you go, Pentagram.
It's not evil innately and it'scertainly not worshipped in an
evil way in Freemasonry.
The pentagram isn't even partof any of the three degrees that
are part of proper masonry.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
No degrees that are part of proper masonry.
No, and even still, if you readthe florida digest, the florida
digest states that the easternstar is not an appendant body of
masonry.
Even though we do a lot ofstuff together, um, it is not an
official, organized appendantbody of free masonry.
And that's something I foundjust this past week researching
something in the digest.
That was point six that we had.
It wasn't number five, that waspoint six that we had.

(52:31):
It wasn't number five, that wasnumber six, that was six.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right.
Number five Freemasonry being aJewish and or Jesuit order.
And there are certain rabbisthat have gone out and talked
about how Freemasonry at the topis all Jewish and that it is a
Jewish and or Jesuit order.
Now we need to clarify thedifference between Jewish and
Jesuit, jesuit being a branch ofthe Catholic Church, jewish

(52:53):
being other.
We all know what the Jewishculture and belief is.
So, chris, what are yourthoughts on that, on Freemasonry
being Jewish and or Jesuit?

Speaker 1 (53:01):
I don't know where it's coming from.
You know, I think that thethree degrees revolves around
characters out of the OldTestament and it's possible that
people feel like that meanswe're preferring the Jewish
faith over the others.
But the way I looked at it, andstill do, is all of the three
major religions agree on the OldTestament.
I understand taking charactersfrom that one and using that in

(53:24):
your rituals because you're notgoing to offend any of the major
religions.
They all agree with thosecharacters.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Well, and even still the disagreement between the
three abrahamic faiths, andy'all guys heard me say it
earlier what I mean by the threeabrahamic faiths is islam,
judaism and christianity.
The disagreement between thethree of them is the blessing of
abraham.
You know, did it go to ishmael,which was abraham's firstborn
male son, or did it go to isaac,which is the one that he had
with sar?
So that's kind of where thatsplit happens.

(53:52):
And even still, if you go tothe tomb of Abraham that's found
in, I couldn't even tell youwhat country it's in.
I'm sure I can't pronounce it,but there's actually a, a, a
divide where if you want to godown the Muslim path, then you
can go down the Muslim path.
They view Abraham as theirforefather and they believe
Ishmael got the birthright.
And then if you go down the Jewor the Christian path, then it

(54:14):
goes through the path of Isaac.
It's a great conversation tohave.
It's a great historical studyand that's why some Muslims that
I've researched they view Jewsand Christians as cousins.
Not all Muslims are exactly thesame and that it's death to the
infidel.
Not all of them believe that.
There are some that still viewit as a peaceful religion, that

(54:36):
no christians are our cousins.
And even still, in the quran,it mentions jesus as a prophet,
uh, as a prophet of god.
So, um, again, some somecultural understanding, some
more understanding on religion,um, I think would squash that
pretty easily hebron inpalestine is where his grave is,
by the way, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
People were screaming it and I wanted to give them
some relief.
It's definitely not a Jewishfaith-based organization.
You could say there are a lotof Jewish people at the top of
the fraternity.
How would I know that?
I don't ask who's Jewish andwho's Christian in the
fraternity, so I don't reallyhave a way that I could say
that's true or false.
So if I, as somebody who hasbeen part of this fraternity

(55:18):
actively for the last six years,don't know their faith, how the
heck do you?
Great question how do you knowwho's at the top of our
fraternity?
I call a little bit of BS onthat one no-transcript.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
a Jesuit order we have to bow down to the Catholic
Church.
No, If any Jew or Jesuit orCatholic Church or anybody were
to walk in and tell me to bowdown to them, I'm probably going
to throw hands.
I'm just throwing it out there.
It's just not going to happen.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
All right.
Number four four stories ofabuse, drugs, other nefarious
things that freemasons get into.
Um, you know, of course there'sa, there's a video circulating
of a guy who was a musician, uh,and he was going to go through
an initiation process wherethere was a humiliation ritual
and, um, you know, people wantedto physically abuse him.

(56:32):
There's also stories out ofother countries.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Is that the guy that said you have to get peed on or
something?

Speaker 2 (56:38):
No, no, no, that's a different guy that we'll get
into later, but yeah, so I mean,there's all kinds of these
stories that whenever you getinto Freemasonry that you have
to go through some sort of aritual, that you have to go
through a humiliation ritual,that you have to sacrifice your
kids to the fraternity you knowand let people have their way.
I'm just going to go ahead andthrow this out there and I'm
going to make it as simple ashumanly possible.
If there were ever anyallegations at my lodge because

(57:02):
I go to a lodge that's in thegreat county of Polk County
headed up by Sheriff Grady Judd,who's the best sheriff in the
country I'm going to throw thatout there, he's the best sheriff
.
I'm throwing down the gauntlet,Chris Dang.
If that were to happen and abrother were to come into the
lodge, even in a tiled meeting,and say guys, I just want to go
ahead, I have these desires andI did X, Y, Z thing to a kid or

(57:25):
to a woman, or whatever the casemight be.
That guy would fall off of acurb before the authorities were
ever called uh, and and byfault, yeah, by fall off a curb.
Everybody knows exactly whatI'm talking about.
This guy would just get curbstomped I doubt he'd have any
teeth left and then it would becalling the police and saying

(57:45):
hey, by the way, he justadmitted all of this to us, uh,
and I don't know how he ended upin that situation that he's in,
but you're probably going toneed a full body cast.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Yes, we don't like child molesters.
None of us, no one I've evermet in the fraternity likes
child molesters.
In fact, you cannot become aMason if you are a child
molester and if you're accusedof child molestation you're
probably going to be suspendedand if you're convicted of it,
kicked out of the fraternity,because we don't tolerate it.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
Now, that's the legal side of it.
The legal side of it is thatyou're going to be kicked out.
And also, yeah, actually here'ssomething I read in the digest,
chris, because I wasresearching some stuff this past
week.
But why would you beresearching?

Speaker 1 (58:26):
stuff in the digest.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
Well, I'm certainly not interpreting anything out of
the digest.
I got warned about that.
But what I yeah, what I wasreading in the digest is that
the Grand Lodge can investigatea situation.
So let's say a brother were tocome in and he were to confess
to crimes Right, doesn't matterwhat the ability to file charges
.
And then there has to be aninvestigation by grand lodge,

(58:54):
right?
Grand lodge will then determineif there should be civil
charges filed against that guy,right?
So freemasonry is very stricton.
If you break civil law, notonly are we going to kick you
out of the fraternity, but we'regoing to turn over all evidence
to the proper authorities.
That way, actual civilpunishment can be doled out upon
you.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Makes sense right?
Yeah, I mean to me, but I'm aMason.
So to those that aren't MasonsI would say you don't have to
worry about that being certainlynot an institutional problem.
I'm not going to say there'speople that don't have problems
that we don't know about,because I'm sure there are, but
it's not an institutionalproblem.
There are certain places wherepeople are trusted with children

(59:36):
.
They molest those children andit's found out that they do
molest children.
They are not prosecuted.
They are moved to another placewhere they can go talk to
different children.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
Are you talking about the Catholic Church or the Boy
Scouts?
I didn't name them.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
But yeah, it happens a lot in the catholic church or
has in the past been a majorproblem and that's an
institutional problem, and thatis not the case in freemasonry.
Where are the reports in themedia of the freemasons
molesting kids or, uh, doingdrugs or having group rape
parties or?

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
whatever there was one out of I'll have to find the
lady's name and send it to youbut there was one out of, I
think, britain, uh, out of theuk, uh, where this lady went off
and she talked about all thisstuff that happened to her and
happened to like her sibling,and they put on a play to
reenact the whole thing.
But whenever it gotinvestigated, nothing was ever

(01:00:31):
found about that other than thisis the musings of, like, an
eight year old kid.
Uh, you know, but either way,nothing was ever found of that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
What was the accusation?

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
The accusation was is that, um, in the lodge, during
a tiled meeting, they were, theywere performing horrendous acts
on children, um, you know, andthat there was a ritualistic
murder and, of course, all thestuff we're always blamed of
doing.
I'm sorry, but I've never seena ritualistic murder like still
to this day.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
No, I haven't either.
It's offensive that anyonewould even accuse us of doing
something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
It's all day long, but at least have something to
back it up.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Yeah, that's ridiculous, this one's just
ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
You can call me all kinds of things, you can tell me
that I have fantastic hair, butif the facts don't support it,
they don't support it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
I like your.
Yeah, I like your hair thischrome dome like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Can you see the reflection off this thing right
now?

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
it's shiny.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
It is a perfectly shined cue ball.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
That's what it is it's almost like you have a halo
.
It has an angelic glow comingoff you.
I love it oh all right numberthree.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
So number three is one that's constantly brought up
and, chris, it's a picture Isent you last year.
There is a picture that isfloating around and I can share
my screen.
If you'd like me to, I couldpull it up and share my screen
probably should.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Okay, all right, I was kind of shocked when you
sent this to me because I hadnever seen the picture before.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
I never heard of this story that people were telling
about us before, but it didcause me to have to research it,
and it was pretty fascinating,okay, so I'm going to share my
screen for those who arewatching on video, and this is
going to be from your favoritewebsite, x so.
So this is the picture thatwe're talking about.

(01:02:12):
So, for those who are listeningon audio, what you're seeing is
you're seeing, uh, freemasonswho are lined up holding swords.
They're all in tuxedos, or atleast in black dress.
You can tell that the apronsare from another country.
They are not from, uh, here inthe united states, so they
appear to be somewhere, um, likeI said, another country.
So I'm thinking af and am uh,with the light blue that's

(01:02:32):
around it, um, plus over thejacket, yeah so and and what you
have is you have a older manappears to be in his late
sixties who is walking, a youngboy, um, probably to be about 10
or less, and the young boy iswearing a veil over his face.
And so, uh, the caption of thepicture says Freemasons dress

(01:02:57):
little boys to brides for aMasonic wedding ceremony.
This horrific photo was takenfrom have no idea how to
pronounce that Masonic Lodgenumber 762 in Brazil.
So, chris and I actually didthe research on this, and so
here's what we found out on this.
Chris, do you want to tell thestory, or should I?

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Well, I have a bad memory, but what I remember of
this story is that this iscoming from a ceremony.
I think it was started infrench lodges, if I recall um,
and it's very common for masonryto sponsor orphanages and um
schools for children, especiallyimpoverished children.
And to this day we have a lotof organizations.

(01:03:37):
Your your shirt there, you'rewearing a grotto shirt and the
grotto.
Their primary fundraising isfor children that can't afford
dental care.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
Yeah, miles for special smiles.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
There you go and the Shriners, obviously the
Children's Hospital.
We're very dedicated toprotecting children, to lifting
children up and giving them thesupport they need, whether they
have parents or not, and so thisceremony in particular was I
believe these were orphans or Icould be wrong, but I believe

(01:04:10):
they're orphans and the ceremonyis.
The ants are present at theceremony.
If you show the other, I showedyou like eight or a few other
pictures from this exactceremony and the aunt is there
as well as his family.
This is a ceremony where thelodge is essentially taking this
kid under their wing and sayinghe's going to be under our

(01:04:31):
protection.
And that white veil he's notallowed to wear a white apron
because he's not a Mason, right?
But the white certainlysymbolizes their desire to keep
his purity intact.
And that picture and that storythey made up.
That this is an officialceremony to make a kid a man's

(01:04:52):
bride is pretty offensive.
I don't know how to think anyMason that sees that would want
to say who the hell said that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
I'd love to meet him in person.
I actually heard anotherexplanation for this.
I think it's not in opposition,but in addition to what you
said.
Yeah, and so that there is incertain parts of the world.
Of course we don't do it here inthe United States because it's
just kind of like a quietunderstanding, like a quiet
understanding, but uh, actuallyit's in our obligation now that
I'm sitting here thinking aboutit, but that this young man or

(01:05:21):
any of the young people that arein that line following behind
him, are actually the kids ofother masons and so the the
purpose of this ceremony is isthat, should that father die,
whoever the the father of thisyoung man is, should that father
die, the lodge will then takethat young man under their wing
and raise him as one of theirown, and so they'll teach the

(01:05:42):
lessons, they'll make sure thathe's taken care of financially,
that he gets all the teachingsthat he needs from an older male
, because, let's face it, I mean, as men, we need lessons from
older males.
We need to have some of thewisdom to be imparted upon us.
If you keep wisdom to yourself,you're cheating the next
generation.
So this was in addition to whatyou said.

(01:06:06):
As far as them being orphans, Ithink I read a different
explanation of this ceremony,that this is stating should this
boy's father die, we've got him, and that father now knows that
.
He knows that this young manwill be taken care of in the
case of his death.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
So yeah, then that's essentially the same meaning.
Yeah, Whether the parents arethere or not, is that the child
is under the protection of thelodge now?

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Which, honestly, is a beautiful thing if you sit
there and think about it.
Now, in our obligation we talkabout, you know, master masons,
their widows and orphans thatwe're going to take care of them
.
In our obligation, you know,master masons, their widows and
orphans, that we're going totake care of them.
Uh, in our obligation, um so,but to put kind of an
exclamation point on that, onthat, what we, what we oblige
ourselves to, or what weobligate ourselves to, uh,
that's a beautiful thing.
I mean the fact that we'resaying that, yeah, we are going

(01:06:51):
to take care of the nextgeneration, to make sure they
have everything they have.
And I've talked about it beforehere on the podcast.
My job as a father is to givemy kids the highest springboard
possible so that way they canreach the stars if they want to
yeah doing that for ones you'renot blood related to, that is a
beautiful thing yeah, because ittakes a community to raise a
child.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
At least in the old times that's how we thought.
And uh, I know we've gottenaway from that more in western
culture in modern times.
But I think, um, there'ssomething beautiful in, like you
said, caring about kids thataren't yours.
We've gotten away from thatmore in Western culture and
modern times.
But I think there there'ssomething beautiful in, like you
said, caring about kids thataren't yours.
Yeah, because it's the rightthing to do because they realize
how many and you're willing to,you know, provide help.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
Yeah, do you realize how many times I've had a kid
run up to me, like in a Lowe'sor a grocery store, and like,
just like, latch onto me and Ihave no idea who this kid is?
So I'm looking down like it'snot me, like you know, but but
either way, just the kid.
The kid lost his mother, youknow.
So it's okay, let's find yourmom you know, or let's find your
dad or your grandma or whoeveryou're here with.
But, um, yeah, the the factpeople want to take something,

(01:07:54):
especially with, like, the veilover the head.
I could see where it would beweird, but that being a a badge
of purity and innocence.
That's why brides wear veilsthey're supposed to at least but
of course, in the date of onlyfans, you're not going to find
that no so I'm convinced that 90of women should not wear white
to their wedding.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
If you know, you know so well, I can guarantee you
that's not a wedding ceremony um, that guy's not going to be
marrying a child.
That's fake news.
100 all the way all right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
Number two we are working our way down the list.
Number two we actually have ashow map this time this is
happening.
Number two albert pike and hismention of lucifer in both
morals and dogma and somethingelse he is credited as saying.
Now, chris, you've read moralsand dogma, you've been through

(01:08:43):
the Scottish right, so if youcould shine some light upon the
name Lightbringer, if you will.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
Well, that's what Lucifer translates to is
Lightbringer, and the referenceI believe in morals and dogma is
to the Morning Star.
Um, I believe in morals anddogma is to the morning star,
which is the first light of theday.
Um is brought from the morningstar and the name of that star
is Lucifer, because it literallymeans morning star or light

(01:09:10):
bringer.
So you know, the fact that hementions that and and morals and
dogma, by the way, is a veryin-depth look at all the major
religions of the world, by theway, is a very in-depth look at
all the major religions of theworld.
And so the fact that Lucifer'smentioned it in one line of all
that mess that he wrote andtaking so far out of context to
mean that it's satanic, oh, it'sinsane, it's pretty crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
Well, keep in mind Albert Pike.
Wasn't he fluent in Latin?

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
Yes, yes, he was a very intelligent man.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
He was fluent in multiple, multiple languages, if
I remember right yeah, I'm notsurprised.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
Um now, you know the bible pretty well.
You were raised and you havebeen active as a christian.
How many times is luciferactually mentioned by name
lucifer in the bible?
So this is something that camelater.
Don't believe that that AlbertPike was intending to say that
you should worship Lucifer.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
By the way, in the King James Version of the Bible
it is mentioned one time.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
The name.
Lucifer is mentioned.

Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
The name Lucifer is mentioned one time.
That would be Isaiah 14, 12.
Fun fact about the book Isaiahout of all the scriptures,
whenever they found the bookIsaiah in the I believe it was
the Dead Sea Scrolls.
That was the only book in theBible that was word-for-word
perfect.
It was absolutely perfect, sothey had the translation of
Isaiah.
that made it throughout all theyears, all the generations, and

(01:10:27):
then they found the Dead SeaScrolls and Dead Sea Scrolls or
Copper Scrolls, one of the two.
But they found these oldscrolls that were in like a vase
, like a pottery vase in a cave.
And so, and they opened it up,and the book of Isaiah was the
only one that was word for word,perfect.
But Isaiah 14 states how artthou fallen from heaven, oh
Lucifer, son of the morning, howart thou cut down to the ground

(01:10:50):
which didst weaken the nations?
So that's the only time theword Lucifer Now I can look it
up on and see what the othertranslations have um for the
word lucifer, um, some uh.
In other translations thispassage might use different
terms, like morning star or daystar, but at the end of the day
the later christianinterpretations have associated

(01:11:10):
it with satan or the devil.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
Yeah, but originally most cultures would have a
reference to lucifer, would havemeant the first light of the
day, or the light bringer, orthe morning star.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Now the famous quote that everybody quotes To you
this is allegedly Albert Pike.
To you, sovereign GrandInspectors General, 33rd Degree,
masons.
We say this that you may repeatit to the brethren of the 32nd,
31st and 30th degrees theMasonic religion should be, by
all of us, initiates of the highdegrees maintained in the

(01:11:45):
purity of the Luciferiandoctrine.
Now, chris pop quiz, do youknow where that comes from?
No, we did a podcast on it thatnever aired.
That is the taxal hoax.
So this quote is attributed toAlbert Pike, which was overheard
by Diana Vaughn Right and thenreported by Leo Taxel.

(01:12:07):
Okay, let's unpackage this alittle bit.
One, diana Vaughn was never areal person.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
No.
And how would a woman begetting access to fraternal
secret rituals?

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
Because she was like his assistant or mistress, or
plucked his ear hairs, I don'tknow what she did for him, but
either way.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
So so let's unpackage this and we're going to release
the podcast on the taxal hoax,or yeah, let's do it even redo
the taxal hoax, because that wasan interesting conversation you
mean, while you're sober thismonth, just knock it in real
quick before we okay, yep whileyou're sober this month.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Just knock it in real quick.
Yep, okay, yep, while I'm soberthis month.
So either way, basically withthe TLDR for you boomers, that's
the too long, didn't readversion.
The Taxel hoax is that was avery long drum, roll my gosh.
So, either way, what the LeoTaxel hoax was is you have this
gentleman named Leo Taxel nothis real name, by the way who

(01:13:01):
was a Freemason, and I don'teven think he was a Master Mason
, I think he was an EA.
I think he got initiated, but hedidn't even give back his
Senate Apprentice.
So he was an EA that was partof the French Freethinkers
Society, and so he goes off andhe's writing all this stuff
about the Catholic church I mean, he is just dog in the Catholic
church, like you wouldn'tbelieve all of a sudden has a

(01:13:23):
change of heart.
Jesus has spoken upon me.
And so he ends up writing stuffagainst Freemasonry and he
comes up and he plays this 12year prank on the Catholic
church, where they pay for him,they pay for all of his workings
, they, you know he talks aboutall kinds of things.
The Palladian order was a bigthing that they had a frog that

(01:13:46):
spit fire, and so that was theirdirect communication to speak
to Satan.
And so what ends up happeningis there's a bishop in the town
that he came from.
Was it North or South Carolina?
North or South Carolina, Icouldn't tell you.
It's one of the Carolinas, buteither way, there's this
Catholic bishop that he ends upwriting to the Vatican and he's
like hey, I've been in the lodgethat he's talking about, where
they have this frog that speaksto the devil, and it's not there

(01:14:09):
.
So fast forward.
What ends up happening is LeoTaxel creates this whole mythos
of Freemasonry.
And again, it's all fake whenDiana Vaughn is the central
character that plays from thisand that's where this quote came
from.
It came from Diana Vaughn, nota real person, who heard it from

(01:14:29):
Albert Pike she was neveraround him and then written by
Leo Taxel, not his real name.
So it's this whole entirefabrication.
Jimmy Akin on YouTube does awhole hour and a half breakdown
of the taxel hoax and he's adevout catholic and he flat out
is like no, this is just false.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
And he, he, did tell the truths in the end yeah,
where they auctioned off atypewriter he did publicly say
hey, I made all this up yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
and then guess what?
As soon as he got done withthat, he went right back to
dogging the Catholic Church.
So he played a 12-year prankthat we're still suffering for
today.
So this quote of, if you everhear it, that Masonry or the
Masonic religion is a Luciferiandoctrine and that's the
authority of Albert Pike, youknow Albert Pike was a central
authority in Freemasonry.

(01:15:17):
First off, Albert Pike'sopinion in Freemasonry doesn't
hold any more weight than minedoes or Chris's does or
anybody's does.
No he is just a person that isin Freemasonry.
He is not somebody that oh,they are official teachings that
we have to teach and all this.
No, he's just a dude inFreemasonry.
And then, secondly, he neversaid this.
This is completely fabricated.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
Yeah, and then, secondly, he never said this.
This was completely fabricated.
Yeah, so there you go.
Another one that's super easyto verify, isn't true?

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
that doesn't stop the people from saying it they're
just not educated.

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
We gotta alleviate their ignorance.
For them, number one.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
We made it to the end and we have extras if you have
time.
But we have extras if you havetime.
But we have number one, otherorders that are not Masonic but
yet they use Masonic symbolism.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
Yeah, this is a big problem and it really does
confuse the public.
I think about our fraternity.
So I know that it's all BS,especially the Illuminati,
because after my installation Iput all the pictures online.
I have a photo of it.
I don't know if I've shown itto you.
The Illuminati did arecruitment post where they're

(01:16:29):
like join and get rich andwhatever, and the photo they
used was from my installation.
So it's me and Tim Verdunshaking hands, nice.
And I sent it to Tim and I'mlike dude, we're in the
Illuminati.
He's like that needs to betaken down.
He was so mad.
I'm like no, it's funny becausenow we have proof that all
they're doing is grabbingMasonic photos and using them to

(01:16:51):
try to like, make money and getsome, get membership or
whatever for their organization.

Speaker 2 (01:16:56):
It is funny, but could I at least get the
bankroll that they allegedlyhave?

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
Yeah, supposedly you can get rich in the Illuminati
right, yeah, that's what I'mscreaming.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
Let's do that.
Meanwhile I'm getting poorerbecause I'm pouring my own
personal money into the lodge,but yeah, so I mean, you have
all kinds of things Like youhave.
You know, they always bring upthe Paladin Order, or they
always bring up 99th degreemasons and all this other stuff.
So I want to be clear in sayingthis in standard masonry,
standard recognized masonry,there are 32 degrees that you

(01:17:25):
could achieve right off the bat.
Ok, you got the first threedegrees of masonry, which, by
the way, once you get to thatthird degree of master mason,
you are as high up as a masoncan go.
Yeah, we don't want any otherdegrees as any better than the
master mason.
Right, if you, if you gothrough the scottish rite and
you get all the way up to the32nd degree, that does not mean
that you are higher than one.

(01:17:46):
That is a third degree mastermason.
You are all equals, you're allon the level as the pun goes.
So, right, that is it.
And then you can get a 33rddegree bestowed upon you.
Okay, that is a a uh, it's byrecommendation only so you can
get a 33rd degree bestowed uponyou.
Okay, that is a.
It's by recommendation only, soyou can get a 33rd degree
bestowed upon you.
But I think there's only like4,000 33rd degrees across the

(01:18:06):
entire world.
There's only a couple hundredhere in the United States.
Now, we know one we've had himon the podcast before, yes, but
there aren't many that are herein the United States.
So whenever you get into theseonline debates with people, they
always say the same thing Well,you're not high up enough.
Well, unless you're a 33rddegree Mason.
It's like, bro, you have nochance of ever meeting a 33rd
degree Mason because they're allold, they stay off the Internet

(01:18:29):
and they don't get into debateswith you.
Silly people.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
It's true, the 33rd degree is an honorary degree
that the Scottish right confersor prefers on someone for a
lifetime of work, so you don'tget that when you're 20 or 30.
That's something that really isprobably going to be generally
people that are much older.

(01:18:53):
And you know, that's the onlydegree I haven't gotten in the
fraternity, other than some ofthe.
You know I wasn't a member of'tgotten in the fraternity other
than some of the.
Uh, you know I wasn't a memberof dmla so I didn't get some of
those degrees and you're notgonna get it with what's coming
up in march what's that?
your trial, my guy oh, my trial,right, how could I forget?
Uh, yes, very looking forwardto that too soon.

(01:19:16):
I I bought my plane ticket.
Sad part about that is mybirthday is on the 28th, so I
literally got to spend mybirthday flying down there for
this trial, which is not makingme happy, but whatever, yeah,
you know, I think people mightnot be aware of the golden dawn.

(01:19:37):
Might not be aware of thegolden dawn.
Um, uh, you might not be awareof andrew levay, who made the,
uh, the satanic church.
Is it andrew or anton antonlevay?
Sorry, yeah, I assume it'sandrew and anton is short of
that, but no anton levay, that'sa weird dude.
He basically started like the uh, the opposite of christianity.

(01:19:58):
Right, it's like the Church ofSatan or whatever.
I don't know what he called it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
Yeah, it's called the Church of Satan.
But whenever you actually getinto occultism because I've
studied occultism pretty heavilyWhenever you get into it, the
forward facing of that thatAnton LaVve did it was basically
.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
Yeah, it was basically just counterculture.
I mean, that's basically all itwas is he was trying to get a
rise out of people.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
Right there's nothing serious about it at the end of
the day, what lave was?
He was a psychopath.
This guy was a psychopath thatused masonic symbolism to create
something called sex magic.
Okay, so like this guy was justbasically coming up with new
ways to get laid and say, oh no,you can have sex with me and
speak with Satan, and it's likewell that's.

Speaker 1 (01:20:43):
It's actually part of a whole bunch of esoteric
traditions that go way back thesex part, because which is?

Speaker 2 (01:20:52):
fine, but we're not first century Sparta.
No, like you're not dealingwith the oracles of Delphi.
You get some chick hopped up onwhatever drug.
They have her hopped up on andthen all the deformed priests
have sex with her.
That's not what we're doing.

Speaker 1 (01:21:06):
No, we don't even have women to have sex with in
our fraternity.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
Oh, dudes, which is weird.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
I guess we have those goats.
That's why we have the goats.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
I don't know the goats.
Oh, that's why we have thegoats.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
The goats, oh God, yeah.
No, there are otherorganizations that use Masonic
symbols for their benefit, butthey are not Masonic and the
general public wouldn't know thedifference.
In fact, some Masons sadlycan't tell the difference, which
is really sad.
But it's not just them the KluKlux Klan created by Masons.

(01:21:38):
A lot of their ritual work isMasonic in nature.
It's a fact.
Um then, I don't think they uselike Masonic imagery as much,
but I definitely think they usea lot of the structure Um.
And then you've got like the um.
Uh, what's the church in Utah?

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
Um, Latter-day Saints .
Latter-day Saints, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
Yeah, what are they called Mormons?
Mormons, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:22:02):
They actually have the squaring compass on their
pajamas.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
The Mormons were founded by Masons, yeah, so you
do a little research on that.
It's pretty fascinating.
So there is a lot of Masonicimagery in that particular faith
because they started by peoplethat were Masons.

Speaker 2 (01:22:17):
Well, it even goes further than that and I'm pretty
sure we'll get into it wheneverwe cover Born in Blood, but
even the pirates in theCaribbean in the you know 15,
1600s, you know, and of courseall of us know, the story of
like Blackbeard and Not Jack theRipper, no gosh I can't
remember this guy's name, I'llhave to go back and play
Assassin's Creed for it, but buteither way, yeah.

(01:22:40):
So a lot of their symbolism, youknow, like the skull, the Jolly
Roger the Jolly Roger is askull and crossbones yeah, so a
lot of their and even still,like pirates are very educated.
They spoke multiple languages.
They were very educatedwhenever it came to battle
tactics.
That's why they were assuccessful as they were and they
were, and they were directlygoing against the crown.
So whenever you look at whatthey did, a lot of what they did

(01:23:01):
used Masonic symbolism.

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
They had the Pirate's Code right, yeah, the.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
Pirate's Code.
Yeah, and even still, theirinitiation and their rituals and
everything were very similar toMason's.
And even still, I believe it'sthe charge, if I'm not mistaken,
that says that as a mastermason, you are now a friend to
pirates and corsairs really soyeah, there's a.
Well, you would know you're agold carrion member.
I don't remember those words,but could be oh, hold on, now I

(01:23:29):
gotta look it up, I'll learn myold head, but yeah, I mean born
in blood, that's I.

Speaker 1 (01:23:35):
I can't wait to get into that because it does talk
about how the Templars had amassive naval fleet that
disappeared and there is alogical track of thought that
could take you from theTemplars' naval fleet to
generations later, these guysliving in the Caribbean with
that fleet, living under asimilar code, that are not fans

(01:23:58):
of the crown.

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
So it may not be in ours because it looks like it's
out of the UK.

Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
Yeah, I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
Master Mason is informed that he becomes a
brother to pirates and corsairsand it's an English ritual.
That's awesome.
The next time I'm out on a boatand I get hopped up by some
pirate who's going to walk overand be like wait, I'm a friend,
I'm a friend, I'm a friendFriendly.
You see Right here, yeah,friendly.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
Fair enough.
There you go.
Those are the top 10 thingsthat you're going to hear about
Freemasonry.
If you talk to, I guess,predominantly Christians who
don't like Freemasonry and theydon't know why, there you go.
It's because they heard thosekinds of things about our
fraternity.

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
Yeah, and of course, we have another one that we're
probably going to end upcovering, and it's the
conspiracy theories ofFreemasonry outside of the
church.
So these are the things thatChristians have against
Freemasonry, and so now you havesome tools to either be able to
research it on your own, whichI would highly encourage you to
do Use a little bit of logic andreason, study some history, and
a lot of these things can bevery easily combated.

(01:25:03):
So the two types of people thatI have found in the church that
, whenever you talk aboutFreemasons, is typically the
older people that are in thechurch, and when I say older
people, I'm talking likeseventies and eighties Whenever
you talk to them and you say hey, what are your thoughts on
Freemasonry?
The older gentleman that I'mspeaking about.
I asked him at one point Ithink it was right after I had
gotten raised.
I said hey, what are yourthoughts on Freemasons here in
the church?
He was an elder at my church.
I said what are your thoughts?

(01:25:23):
He said I don't know much aboutthem.
I've never joined theFreemasons, but I know they're a
very respected and respectableorganization.
Great, that's what we shouldaim to be, but you have this new
movement that's really startingto gain traction of.
Oh no, freemasons are evil, andhere's why they're evil.
No, we're not evil.
You know the fact that we havewe're a society with secrets.

(01:25:45):
It doesn't necessarily meanthat we're evil, that we don't
have to blow the lid off andexpose everything you know.
But at the end of the dayyou're going to get those two
very different dichotomies.
And then it was funny me.
And then it was funny.
I asked another guy at mychurch, another brother at my
church, and I said, hey, um, sowhat are your thoughts on
freemasons?
And he stuck out his hand toshake my hand and then he gave

(01:26:05):
me the grip and I was like he'sa freemason too that's so rare
to happen out in the wild it's.

Speaker 1 (01:26:15):
It is kind of like oh yeah, and and even still.

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
So, you're going to hear people talk about, as
you're combating, some of thisstuff and I'm speaking to our
brothers out there.
You're going to hear about,well, the 99th degree mason and
all this other stuff.
That's complete hot garbage.
Uh, that is typically found inthe prince hall um affiliation.
I'm not going to say all princehalls, but it's in some of the
prince halls.
For example, here in the stateof Florida, I think we have like
seven or eight differentbranches of Prince Hall.

Speaker 1 (01:26:40):
So it's like every time they have a disagreement.

Speaker 2 (01:26:44):
They just create a new Prince Hall Grand Lodge here
in the state of Florida.
But you have some that you'vegot to pay, like $15,000, and
you'll get the 99th degreebestowed upon you.
And, of course, if you stack 10guys in a room, you just made
150K in a weekend just by givingthem a piece of paper that you
printed off with Microsoft Wordand clip it Right.

Speaker 1 (01:27:03):
Yeah, I'm.
I'm always shocked when I hearhow much they pay for their dues
and their degrees.

Speaker 2 (01:27:09):
It's insane.

Speaker 1 (01:27:10):
But I guess it makes sense.
They take it more seriously,probably, than we do.

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
I don't know if it's a, they take it more serious.
So there's two metrics ofprotecting that.
So one could be the dues.
But if I got to pay $3,000,$4,000, $5,000 for my yearly
dues, I'm not going to be aMason.
My budget can't sustain thatright now, so I'm not going to
do it.
If I got to pay $15,000 for adegree.
I'm not going to do it.

(01:27:35):
I believe the onus should be onthe brothers of the lodge.
But the brothers of the lodgeshould be protecting the
Westgate At least that's myopinion of it.
So yeah, you can have like anRRR lodge.
The dues are $152 a year, butyou got to come to six meals.
Before you ever are given apetition, you have to come to at
least six meals and we're veryparticular on who we allow in

(01:27:56):
there.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
You make them come to six meals first.

Speaker 2 (01:27:59):
That's our lodge, so that's not anything that's found
in formal digest.
But yeah, we make them come tosix meals.
Now we meet two times a month,so, yeah, you come to six meals.
We get to know.
You get to know if you're agood person or not, what your
intentions are.
We'll sit down and talk withyou throughout the meals, or

(01:28:22):
we'll sit and talk in thelibrary or whatnot.
But yeah, so it's six meals atour lodge and then we'll give
you a petition if we think thatyou're worthy and well qualified
.

Speaker 1 (01:28:27):
Wow, that's what three months they got to stick
around.

Speaker 2 (01:28:33):
Yeah, and, honestly, lakeland has a pretty high
recruitment number, so peopleseem to respect that, which I
like it.
They didn't do that with me.
I mean with me, I think I'd-.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
Well, you were already Mason.
Yeah, you were already Mason,so it's different.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
No, no, no, I'm talking about whenever I joined
at Turkey Creek.

Speaker 1 (01:28:50):
Well, here we are, matt.
We've given the We've got anagenda.
We went through an agenda.
We got an agenda.
We went through an agenda.
It took us about 45 minuteslonger than we probably needed
to.
Nah, but we have more.
We have more we want to do.
I think we should definitelytake a look at our we're going
to look at our previousrecordings and see, now that we

(01:29:11):
don't care anymore what we mightput out, we might rerecord some
stuff, because Matt's sober nowCould be a whole different vibe
.
So you're going to be hearingabout the Taxo Hoax, for sure
coming up.
We have a whole bunch of othercontent planned.
We have other top 10 thingslike this that we want to go
through.
We're not slowing down, we'respeeding up.

(01:29:32):
So if you have any ideas fortopics or things you want to
hear about, things you like ordon't like about the show, email
Matt and he will deal with it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:41):
My email is chris at onthelevelpodcastcom.

Speaker 1 (01:29:44):
You slum of a biscuit .
That is correct.
You can email me at chris atonthelevelpodcastcom.

Speaker 2 (01:29:51):
If I'm being honest with you, I'm super excited for
Born in Blood.
I'm going to do an old schoolbook report on Born in Blood and
the other one.
I'm going to do an old schoolbook report On Born in Blood and
the other one I'm super excitedfor, but you're going to have
to read the book before we do.
It Is GenerationalCommunication.
Generational Communication InFreemasonry the Fourth Turning.

Speaker 1 (01:30:09):
I want to dive into that so hard it hurts.
I will read that.
I will.
I'll be happy to.
I'm going to go get it todayand I can probably read it in a
couple of weeks.
We'll get caught up and we'llput that out, because it sounds
like that's something that couldhelp a lot of lodges that have
intergenerational peopleattending.

Speaker 2 (01:30:27):
Well, it especially can help with not giving too
much away.
You have and I'm just speakinggenerationally, generationally,
from an archetype perspective,right, and you can trace this
back over 400 years the boomerarchetype and the millennial
archetype are destined to dothis.
I mean, they are destined forit, and so I.

(01:30:49):
You see that currently, inFreemasonry, you see it in the
lodge, you see it at it, doesn'tmatter what level of
Freemasonry you want to talkabout, you see that, you see it
in churches, you see it inpolitics.
So I'm really excited for that,because it'll teach the younger
brothers how to communicatewith that boomer that you're
talking to, or that Gen Xer thatyou're talking to, and vice

(01:31:10):
versa, for that boomer, it'sgoing to teach you how to talk
to the younger generation in alanguage they can understand,
right, because at the end of theday, we don't all talk the same
.
You know, if I were to betalking to you, you know, or if
I were to be talking to, uh, say, a boomer and I want to
reference, reference a certainitem or a certain uh thing, I
would say the term necking, andeveryone knows what necking is.

(01:31:33):
Your generation probably knowsit as parking the car, knows it
as parking the car.
My generation knows it asmaking out.
So the vernacular and how wespeak changes over time, and so
that's going to show you how tocommunicate with those people,
not only from a verbiageperspective, but it's going to
show you how to communicate themfrom a personality perspective,
because you have that boomergeneration which is highly

(01:31:54):
emotional, and they are.
You have the Gen Xers which aremore laissez faire, like, okay,
you know, whatever happenshappens.
But you have the gen xers whichare more laissez-faire, like
okay, you know, whatever happenshappens.
But you have the millennialsthat are very headstrong and say
, all right, let's burn thismother to the ground and
recreate it the way that itshould be.
I think you see that in societyright now.
I think you see that in thelodge right now, um, so so yeah,
let's definitely dive into thatone, because I think it's

(01:32:15):
really going to benefit a lot ofbrothers.

Speaker 1 (01:32:16):
Yeah, really helpful.
And eventually we're going tohave to put your lodge saving
plan up that you had created.
Well, maybe just add that tothe Facebook page.
Yeah, that's content for people.

Speaker 2 (01:32:28):
Yeah, let me take some names out of it.
That way we don't put somebrothers on blast.

Speaker 1 (01:32:34):
Redact it.
Redact it and we'll put it onthe website too.
We need to get people using ourwebsite more, so I think you're
going to find on our websiteI'll put up the marketing
reimbursement plan that I hadoriginally created for the state
of Florida.
I think we want to make itavailable to everybody in every
jurisdiction, so we'll put itout there to try to help you

(01:32:54):
guys and other helpful things.
We'll have a whole section onthe website for helpful tips for
Freemasons.
Yeah, exciting times.
Thank you so much for takingthe time on your Sunday to
record my brother.
Absolutely Always good to spendsome time with you.
Yeah, man, looking forward tohaving a drink again, but a

(01:33:14):
couple more weeks, a couple moreweeks, we'll get there, alright
.

Speaker 2 (01:33:16):
On the Limit Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:33:17):
We'll get there All right On the Limp Podcast.
We are out, out, out, out Out.

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