November 12, 2025 • 35 mins
TMSA’s On the Move Podcast – Feat. Shan Wu, Co-Founder & CEO at breadd.ai
In this episode, Shan Wu, Co-Founder & CEO of breadd.ai, shares why he believes freight is one of the hardest and most misunderstood sales industries, and what needs to change for teams to succeed. Shan breaks down the biggest mistakes he sees in freight sales today, the real role AI should play, and what he learned after attending his first TMSA Executive Summit. A tactical and honest conversation for anyone trying to sell smarter in logistics.
Check out the Transportation Sales and Marketing Association (TMSA) website or engage with us on LinkedIn.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (00:22):
Hello, everyone, and welcome to On the Move, a show
where we share transportationsales and marketing success
stories.
I am Jennifer Cocus Romain,Executive Director of the
Transportation Marketing andSales Association, which is a
trade nonprofit educating andconnecting marketing and sales
professionals in the space.
And today on the show, I haveSean Wu, who is the co-founder
(00:44):
of Bread AI, and so excited tohave you on the show.
How are you doing today?
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
I'm doing great.
How are you, Jen?
And how do you do great as well?
SPEAKER_02 (00:53):
And excited to have you talk to you about all things
sales, automation, bread.
Excited about it.
So can you tell us about BreadAI, what it is, and how you guys
started to get it going?
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Sounds good.
So Bread AI, uh, it's aprospecting tool specialized for
three brokers and carriers.
Uh, how it started was actuallyuh it's a long time coming.
So I've been a sales rep all mycareer.
My first job was a telephoneracer.
So that means, Jen, I'll becalling you and say, we want to
(01:28):
give me 200 bucks, I'll give youback nothing.
Right?
So I started by selling nothing.
Then I started selling paymentservices, software consulting,
uh, and and other bankingservices.
Um, and I had the fortune, orsome we'll call misfortune, of
also selling freight for twomonths when I started getting
into this business.
(01:48):
And that's when I realizedselling freight is harder than
selling nothing.
It's so hard.
It is right.
So so that sort of like sparkedmy curiosity to think, how can
we make it easier?
Right.
And then and then on the otherhand, uh, just like everyone I
know, I'm also poisoned bysocial media.
So there was this one night whenI was dome scrolling through my
(02:11):
phone when I was not having agood day, uh, and before I know
it, like two, three hourspassed, right?
I'm just like scrolling anddoing nothing.
And then it hits me.
It's so easy to be, you know, uhcontrolled by the algorithm to
scroll, but why can't we makethe algorithms work for us and
(02:32):
make us sell sell thingsbrandlessly easy, live
scrolling?
So those two things combinedbecame bread.
We are building a tool thatmakes it so easy to self-freight
that it's like scrolling on yourphone.
So that's what it is all about.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
I love that.
And when you guys started, wasthat its original intention, or
were you trying to solve likeoperational problems, or how did
kind of it evolve from what youstarted and what you thought
bread would be to what it istoday?
SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
Yeah, we started this company now, it's almost
two years, two more years ago.
The first problem we're tryingto tackle was operational.
Um, uh, you know, this these arelow-building, you know, carrier
communication and whatnot.
And honestly, part of the reasonwas because that was the easy
pie to trying to go after.
(03:20):
Um, it's it's a uh more standardprocess and the and the
technology that the roadmap isvery clear of how to use AI to
do that.
But honestly, we broughtsomething to the market.
We have customers paying usthousands of bucks a month, uh
doing it.
But but the overall demand andand the feedback from the from
the you know broke brokeragesand carriers were yeah, it's
(03:43):
nice, it works, but I don'treally care because honestly,
you're automating the ops for myrep.
So now I'm just paying them thesame bucks, doing less work.
You can call me back when youcan help me sell.
So really it's it's coming fromum literally the customers
asking us, help me sell, andI'll pay you some bucks.
And we started to uh go intothat business.
SPEAKER_02 (04:04):
Well, I think that makes sense as an evolution,
taking something like, okay, wethought this would be really
useful, and it could be, but howdo we do sales more effectively?
And how do we create the tool tohelp sales be more effective?
So I know you said that you soldfreight for a time and you were
like, This is hard.
What a challenge, which I thinkso many people in this industry
can feel.
(04:25):
Was there a specific moment whenyou started this process and
started building bread that youwere like, yeah, no, freight
sales needs a shift, it needs tochange, or was it like your
experience building up over timeand then realizing what you
could actually build to help?
SPEAKER_00 (04:40):
Yeah, I think there are probably two moments where I
had an aha moment.
Uh, the first moment was when Iread Kara Brown's book, uh, The
Revenue Engine.
Matter of fact, you know, thisis not a prop.
I'm standing on top of mybookshelf, but I I have it with
me.
I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (04:59):
Somebody else, I was on a call yesterday, pulled that
out and showed that to me too.
I have mine.
It's actually, I have a massivebook sitting behind me and other
things.
Um, so I'm not gonna pull it outbecause it will unravel, but I
also have it in my nearvicinity.
SPEAKER_00 (05:14):
And and and it was it was a aha moment to me
because of two things.
Number one, the theory spoketrue to me.
Uh, and even honestly, in in away, it it's not it's not news
to me, uh, but just uh told in avery clear way, because I've
(05:35):
been selling tech and SaaS forfor a few years now.
And so I think Kira done areally great job system, you
know, making a comparison systemof how to do it uh for the for
the industry.
But the aha moment was when thenI go talk to all these sales
leaders, air brokerages andcarriers, and I ask them, ask
(05:56):
them about the concept of ICPtargeting, you know,
specializing, uh, and and andall these um um good practices.
No one ever argues with me aboutnot to do it, but no one also
ever does anything about it.
Um so I think that's the momentwhen I realize um people would
(06:20):
like to sell better and sell ina in a more effective way, but
they do struggle to do so, andand they probably need a way to
make it happen.
And and my my belief is theyhave enough tools and data and
all these you know wonderful,complex power power tools
sitting out there.
But what they don't have is aneasy enough way to piece
(06:44):
everything together.
Because honestly, like salesreps are not data analysts,
they're not they're not paid todo the job, it's not part of the
job description, jobrequirement, and they're not
trained to do so.
So they need something that's soeasy, that's like a toy, and
that inspired me to be like, allright, I think that's something
we can do here.
SPEAKER_02 (07:02):
Yeah.
And can you explain then howBritt AI actually works for the
sales rep when they're trying toutilize a platform?
SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
Absolutely.
Um, I think to talk about how itworks, I'll just start with uh
what goal is trying to achieve,right?
Um, because overall um it's aprospecting to and there's many
out there, right?
But I think how we are differentis I don't just want to find you
any shipper or the same shipperor the top shippers, which I
(07:30):
believe everybody calls, right?
And and then complain, man, I'mthe 10th person call that day.
Um so so I want to find you theright shipper, niche shipper,
um, sort of like under the radarshippers, right?
And and so how Brett works isthree steps.
Number one, I'll take an ICP oran ideal customer uh profile
(07:54):
from you.
You just need to give me oneexample of somebody you moved
free for last week, or you wantto move right from next week,
right?
And then we translate that intoa profile.
Um, and and that sort of takesthe seven dimensions of what I
think matters to moving freight.
Uh, and then you just wake up toa list of 10 or 20 uh specific
(08:16):
targets that's in your niche.
You know, it's fully researched,you know about their spam
facilities, contact decisionmakers, and there's a number to
call.
So that's that's what we do foryou.
SPEAKER_02 (08:27):
Very cool.
And when you look at the waymost brokers and carriers are
selling today, what do you thinkis the biggest mistake that
they're making?
SPEAKER_00 (08:35):
Yeah, I I think the mistake is there are two
mistakes.
Uh, number one is thinking thatspraying and praying still
works.
Uh it doesn't.
It does not, no.
Um, but the second mistake isthen go to the other extreme, I
think, and and and and thinkthat you have to hyper
(08:55):
personalize and target everysingle account, right?
And then lose the volume.
And that doesn't work neither,because that doesn't scale.
Because at the end of the day,and and that's why I think you
know it's easy for us to talkabout what does not work.
The hard part is what worksbecause it's it's kind of like
people are stuck in uh, youknow, between a hard and a rock,
rock and a hard place, becauseum it is a number scam at the
(09:18):
end of the day.
You need the numbers and themath to work, it's just that you
need a balance between highvolume but the conversion need
to make sense as well, right?
So I think the mistake islooking only to pull one of
these levers and not the other.
SPEAKER_02 (09:36):
And so that makes sense, and that's something that
like they should really stopdoing.
Like, stop thinking that you canjust spray the same thing.
And I would say, even with that,like one mistake I see a lot is
when they talk about how theycan do everything.
Like, oh, like because I canmess in this email, I can do
everything, but your customer oryour prospect doesn't care if
(09:57):
you can do everything, they wantto you to be able to do what
they need you to do.
So that's what I think like yourprospecting cool, like putting
it because then at least ifyou're not spraying everything
with the same thing, you can atleast categorize it and segment
it.
So, you know, cold shipping orlike whatever it looks like, you
can put it into buckets and thenat least semi-personalize it for
(10:20):
that particular capability.
SPEAKER_00 (10:22):
I think I think that's so true.
One thing I start justencouraging our user to do is to
say you can be a specialistwithout, but how do I put it?
Um, I I think one of the mosttrending parts of you know uh
sales strategy in Freight is umI sp I speak to so many brokers
(10:44):
and I ask them about what isyour uh ideal, ideal customer
profile, right?
Where do you specialize?
And the number one answer I getfrom anybody is you know,
anything goes, I can I can moveeverything, which is true
because you can find capacityanywhere, right?
But on the flip side, what I'mtrying to tell them is yes, you
can do everything, and you canspecialize in everything.
(11:09):
And the key is when you aretelling and when you're
communicating to a prospect, itdoesn't fly anymore to say, I
have a truck in your areabecause there are millions of
trucks across the state andyou're one of millions.
It's a different thing to say,uh Jenny, you mentioned you know
coaching, right?
You know, I I encourage them togo even a step further to say um
(11:31):
uh cabbage is in season rightnow, even in the winter, right?
These are winter greens.
Uh I have been a cabbagespecialized, you know,
temp-controlled uh commoditymover, right?
And I came across your farm, uh,I do this well and I can do it
for you.
You can specialize in cabbagethis week, right?
(11:52):
With this list of clients andyou can still specialize in
Flatpad to the next list ofclients.
The key is you have tospecialize to your prospect
every single time.
SPEAKER_02 (12:03):
And I think it's it's smart to also think about
what you do specialize inbecause especially in this
market, yes, everybody wants toget the loads, they want to be
able to move the freight, butyou need to be able to move it
successfully when you win ittoo.
That is true.
And I feel like thinking aboutthose ICPs, thinking, like I
like how you said it like, oh,we can specialize in cabbage
(12:25):
this week and flatbed next week,because we can do all that, and
we're gonna target our prospectsbased on these lists.
But I see two people potentiallystepping out of their ICP just
to get the business, but thatcan backfire on you because if
you don't execute it well, yeah,then you're ruining your brand
reputation too, and they're notgonna want to come back to you.
(12:48):
And so thinking about that,that's why I like the capability
to like semi-personalize it inwhat you can actually execute
on.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
Absolutely, because there are some battles that you
should be losing and youshouldn't fight those.
SPEAKER_02 (13:01):
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
So, like really understandingyour your business, what you
want to go after.
I always encourage marketingteams too to like check in on
your sales teams and in youraccount managers.
What is your capability rightnow?
What are you putting out therein your marketing messaging?
Because if your capacity doesn'tmatch, but you're trying to like
push out there, that's not greateither.
So I know we talked about likequite a few things, but is there
(13:24):
anyone else that like as aleader of a like freight sales
team right now, what are thethings that we should stop doing
and what we should be be doinginstead?
SPEAKER_00 (13:33):
Yeah.
Oh, so many thanks.
Um, stop everything.
Stop everything.
I I think the I think the toptwo things I think people should
stop is number one, stop callingany shipper, right?
I think we spoke about a littlebit, uh, but but specifically
stop calling the same top 100shippers that everyone else
(13:54):
calls, right?
I'm seeing this a lot and I hearso much complaint about oh, you
know, it's such a competitivemarket.
People uh people think I'mspamming them because they take
10 calls a day.
That happens because you'recalling the same people.
SPEAKER_02 (14:07):
Yeah, because you are.
You kind of are spamming.
SPEAKER_00 (14:09):
Because you are, because you are.
But but if I dig a little bit,you know, underneath of why this
is happening, this is not byintention, you know, uh, this is
by design of the tools you use,right?
I think most prospecting tools,uh be it Apollo Zoomingful or
others, um, they are they tendto be a large database resold to
(14:33):
everybody.
As a result, it's a searchengine and it's ranked, right?
Um, but the the search criteriais not specific enough.
So if everybody search food andbeverage businesses, even
package food businesses, thereare thousands of packaged food
businesses, right?
So are you going to the 1000thpage of the search result to
(14:55):
call those people?
You are not.
And if you're not, you'recalling the same first three
pages of shippers, and that iswhy you feel like it's so
saturated.
But but in effect, it's aboutdiscovering, it's almost like in
the stock market, there's alpha,right?
You have to go where otherpeople don't go.
You have to do that the same waywhen it comes to shippers, too.
So stop calling the sameshippers and start calling some
(15:17):
of these honor-the-railershippers.
That's number one.
Um, I have a number two too,because there's a lot of things
people should stop.
Awesome, great.
Number two is as a sales leaderspecifically, stop making your
reps think.
Well, I know it might be, Idon't know whether it's
controversial or not, right?
(15:38):
But but what I'm trying to getto is uh two uh two two things.
Number one, it is the salesleader's job to not only think,
come up with a strategy, butmake it exit uh make it
executionable, right?
Right, make make it such thatthe rep can actually follow and
(15:58):
do it.
It's not really a good strategywhen you say, hey, this is a
good idea, go try it.
How?
I don't know, figure it out,right?
So number one is it's it's thatthat's part of the job.
But number two, it's because thereps do not have the luxury, as
you and I, you know, sittinghere today, thinking about
thinking about strategy, right?
(16:20):
Because they are in thetrenches, they just got a bounce
last hour, right?
And they're trying to just coverthat load.
Nobody's got time to think aboutit, right?
Just like pilots rely onchecklist manuals to fly
airplanes, right?
It's not because you're notsmart, it's not because you're
not capable, it's because inthese high stress situations,
(16:42):
the only way to ensure you'refollowing the right strategy,
the right way to go about thingsis something so foolproof,
right, that you cannot miss it.
So I think an important part forsales leader is really think
about coming up with a strategyis step one, right?
But step two, have you served iton the plate?
(17:03):
Have you made it so clear and sosimple to follow that reps have
no excuse or no reason to say, Idon't know how to do it.
So those are the things I wish.
SPEAKER_02 (17:13):
Yeah, no, I think that's really smart.
I mean, the of course, you wantyour sales reps to be able to
understand, think through theplan, but build the strategy,
show them how to do it.
I do think, like, even when wetalk about like training of your
team, it's always people talkabout onboarding, but they don't
talk about continued training.
And so the market shifts, themarket change, like you said,
(17:34):
who knew cabbage would be a hotcommodity right now.
So, but like those are the typesof tips that can be helpful to
give your team and continue totrain them.
So it's more than just, oh, it'syour first three months as
you're onboarding.
This is how you this is how yousell freight, but like the
continued plan, the continuedstrategy, why why you're ebbing
and flowing, why you're movingthese things now, giving those
to your reps when they walk inthe door so they're able to just
(17:58):
execute and sell, I think isreally a solid advice.
SPEAKER_00 (18:01):
Yes, because Jen, what you just described is kind
of how software company and techcompanies sell, right?
Uh, you know, when I read Kara'sbook, it's all about you can
sell free, like you're sellingtech, because if you want that
growth rate, right, that's themodel.
But then the the enablementbehind that, you have a whole
(18:22):
data team, first of all, right?
Finding all these data, right?
Somebody's full-time job is toresearch and be like, what's the
seasonality of commoditiesmoving in your state?
That's a job.
Then there's a second job of youknow, uh creating the marketing
message around that, and thenthere's the SDR job to get
folding the door, and thenthere's the AE job to close it,
(18:43):
and then there's a full sort oflike uh support success job to
service it.
In the freight world, usuallyall of those five, six jobs are
one person.
So, how do you expect them to,you know, either they do one of
those five jobs, right?
Or they do a very you knowcrappy version of a little bit
of each, right?
(19:03):
So if you want them to succeed,you gotta staff them, right?
Either with a human resource orsometimes what I hope to do is
create a tool that kind of likedo the other five jobs, right?
In a simple way.
SPEAKER_02 (19:15):
Absolutely.
I'm glad that we kind of talkedabout the the tech enablement
and and because that reallysegues in into my next rounds of
questions, because there is somuch hype around AI and
logistics right now and all ofthe tools, but the tools also
need to be assessed in theirtheir value and understand what
(19:35):
they're actually giving you andwhat they can't actually give
you, and how we utilize ourhumans to do what they can do.
So, where do you see companieskind of getting the AI and
logistics and sales enablementright?
And then where are they gettingit wrong?
SPEAKER_00 (19:52):
I I think when they get it wrong is similar to a
little bit of what we talkedabout, which is they think if I
just get these tools, and by theway, AI is like the new trend or
the new phase of this tech wave,but there's nothing new under
the sun.
This happened when it was calledbig data, when it was called you
(20:14):
know mark tech, when it wascalled something else, right?
But the but the same sort offailure mode um that that that
is happening is um companieswill look at an exciting tech
tool, uh AI or not, and it'samazing promises.
They'll even give it a try andthen be like, okay, I can see
this going on, and they will buyit, and then they'll put it on
(20:38):
the desk of the rep and be like,here you go, and now you should
be making me double the money,right?
Um, what's missing is is numberone, the connection of the
strategy, right?
So to your point, um, making therep understand they don't have
to think in the trenches, right?
But before they go in, just thestart of the day, start of the
(20:58):
month, start of the quarterlyplanning, helping understand why
you are getting this tool andwhat is it doing in our
strategy.
A tool is a means to an end,right?
And it's there to serve acohesive strategy, which is
there's no replacement for.
Number one, do that.
Number two, uh, it's then toyour point, continuous training
(21:19):
uh and making sure that it's notjust like they now have login
and they you know sign on thepage once uh and and then that's
that's training, right?
Make sure that they get support,whether internal or from the
vendor, right, to actually um uhknow how to use the tool and and
and you should be monitoring arethey actually using the tool,
(21:41):
right?
Because there's so much so manytimes where people waste money
by the tool that just sit thereon the shelf, right?
Whereas it actually could bevaluable and useful if you if
there they are investment inimplementing it and making sure
people are on board.
SPEAKER_02 (21:55):
Absolutely.
Um, yes, I think so.
I used to work in software, andthat was always like people were
like, oh, what how what's thebest?
So I was in like Sierra Sorry,what's the best one?
Well, the answer is what is thebest for you and what you need
and what your team needs to besuccessful, and they're like,
but no, what is the best oneagain?
(22:17):
What does your team need?
Ask them, hey, what is ourcurrent tool not do for you that
you would like it to do?
Um, and then you go from therebecause then there's there's
always like, okay, do we need awhole new system or can we do an
add-on or some type ofintegration that's going to help
do that thing?
And so I feel like understandingthat, and then also the biggest
(22:38):
thing is um, like, what are yougetting for your your price
point?
Because all like almost everysoftware has tiers, and make
sure that you're not distractedwith all the pretty bells and
whistles on that top tier thatyou're not paying for, because
you need to make you need tomake sure.
So I do think that, like, yes,like like you said, hey, AI
might be the trendy new wordtoday, but every trend new tech
(22:59):
word that came before it was thesame.
Hey, yeah, see what itscapabilities are, see if it
actually enables your team to bemore successful and at a price
point you can afford.
That's a really good startingpoint.
SPEAKER_00 (23:12):
Yeah, you go.
SPEAKER_02 (23:13):
Um and I do think though, like when AI is being
used properly, it can unlockcapabilities that freight
salespeople didn't have before.
What are what do you think someof those pieces are when people
are actually utilizing the toolsin the best way?
SPEAKER_00 (23:30):
I'll talk about uh two sort of uh AI specific
successes I I've seen.
Uh one uh related to sales andwhat we do, and the other is not
even what we do, but just solidwork.
Uh so so what works in sales nowis in the so we spoke about this
dynamic of spray and pray don'twork, but hyper personalizing
(23:54):
every single account doesn'tscale neither, right?
So if you need both volume andconversion, it's almost like you
have to make a choice.
AI, when used to write, andthat's how we do it, can help
you have both and have it allspecifically.
Um because AI is, I mean,there's so much under the word
(24:19):
AI, right?
But specifically in the case ofhow we use it, because you could
use AI to come comprehend and umattack, index, and understand
different companies anddifferent shippers of what they
do, and break it down to a verygranular level beyond the
typical search engine filter offood and beverage, right?
(24:41):
For example, um, under food andbeverage, there's you know,
produce packaged food andothers.
Under produce, there's you know,winter greens and others, and
under winter green, there'scabbage, right?
So uh the typical uh prospectingtool won't go that deep and
allow you to specialize, butbecause uh we are using AI to
kind of read what they do andeverything, we can.
(25:02):
And as a result, you're gettinga specialized list of that
commodity, which then helps youspray within this very you know
targeted niche, right?
But uh you are not doinghomework one by one, you're
doing homework once and thenapplying to many in a high
conversion rate.
So that's one thing I I've seenor worked uh in sales in
(25:27):
marketing, and this is actuallysomething I learned at the TMSA
conference just uh two weeksago.
Um, and and because marketing isactually I'm new to marketing,
you know.
I believe yeah, I have to behonest, I'm learning, you know.
Thank you.
That's why I signed up.
Uh I I've been a self-rep all mylife, right?
(25:49):
So my my you know go-to thinkingis sell, sell, sell, call it,
right?
Have a conversation and andclose right now, A B C, right?
Um it really opens my my my sortof eyes uh when I start talking
to the marketing teams, right?
Not just uh marketing teams umuh um uh selling freight, but
(26:11):
also even the marketingconsultant uh at the MSA.
And and what I learned is numberone, not everybody is ready to
buy uh at all the time.
So sometimes the conversation,if you go to somebody who is not
thinking about you, not tryingto buy, and you'll be like, hey,
we need to close right now, theythey just think you're pushy or
aggressive and annoying becausethat's the truth, right?
(26:33):
So there's a different thingsabout how do you you know
nurture them, how do you bringawareness and all that.
In the past, the answer is aquote unquote personalized
campaign, right?
Where we say, hello, bracketfirst name, uh I am from right
(26:54):
XYZ.
I uh you know, I sometimes, youknow, bracket your industry and
whatnot, right?
So that's a type ofpersonalization, which I think
when I get an email myself aswell.
I can see it's a little bitscripted, right?
And it connect connects less.
One thing I learned at the TMSAuh uh conference two weeks ago
was some folks are now using ARto do a per recipient level full
(27:22):
personalization, right?
So what they do is they don'tsay, hey, chat GPT, go crazy, uh
say anything, right?
They would teach ChatGPT likehow you would mentoring a you
know sales rep or a marketingrep, and be like, our strategic
goal is this, and these are thecore messages we want, right?
(27:45):
These are the data points aboutthis specific company, whether
it's their location, uh, thisperson's sort of uh LinkedIn
post and personal activity,company news and whatnot.
And now use all of this, createa different message for every
single person.
(28:06):
So that that blew my mind.
And and later on I checked witha couple of my tech friends who
tried it actually, and they'retelling me it's higher
conversion, right?
You go from probably you know uhtwo percent uh uh sort of
conversion from code uhmarketing campaign to to five,
uh which is it's doubling,right?
And that's that's that'spowerful.
SPEAKER_02 (28:27):
Well, I'm glad that you came to TMSA and you were
able to learn things, which isjust I think um, so you were at
the executive summit, and thatthat whole event is designed for
leaders in the space to cometogether, and then Elevate is
designed for everybody to cometogether, but we actually will
be kind of taking a track-basedmodel next year.
So um really excited to diveinto that more.
(28:51):
But I do think that one of myfavorite things when I came to
TMSA, so before I led TMSA, Iwas a member, and it's exactly
that, but I was the opposite.
So I was on the marketing sideand I was like, where are the
salespeople?
Tell me what I can do toactually enable my sales team
and what is actually helpful forthem and how can we do this more
(29:11):
effectively together?
And I don't want to sound stupidto my sales team.
So, like, what can I do to soundsmart?
And so I I loved that about TMSAbecause you could find people
who are in your similar job roleand you can commiserate and
learn and do that, but you canalso find people that are on the
other parts, or if you'regrowing in your career, you can
find a leader or whatever.
(29:32):
So um I am curious.
So, like that was your firstkind of experience.
Like, I know we touched base, wewere hoping that you were able
to come, and so glad that wewere able to make that work.
You joined as a partner member,which we're so thankful for you
to be in the organization.
What role do you thinkassociations like TMSA play in
helping sales and marketingteams evolve over time?
SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
Um I I think I think it is what we spoke about.
Which is it's actuallyeducation, right?
Um I've I've uh without namingany names, I've been involved
with a couple of differentassociations, right?
Which I think everybody'sintention is to educate, right?
But often association can evolveinto a vendor marketplace.
(30:20):
Uh and that is dangerous becauseI think the the transaction, the
sales, you know, I'm a vendor.
Of course, I would love to sellto more folks, right?
Hey, everybody at TMSAlistening, please buy me.
But I think that comes after theeducation.
People need to um, everything wespoke about today, picking the
right tool, making sure it'suseful, uh, uh not just try
(30:42):
something and then churn in acouple months.
All of that, it's such awonderful opportunity to be an
association uh for people uh onthe vendor side to share real,
tangible, successful stories ofhow things are working without
making any asks and demands,right?
Uh and and then and then youknow see what it leads to,
(31:04):
right?
And on the other hand, um uhde-emphasize the transaction uh
nature of it and just start withjust real human connection.
Like then I met you, uh and itwas pretty fun, right?
And then made other uh folks uhat the conference who now I'm
still in touch, and some of weeven went for dinner, right?
Like after that, after thetackle, which is tasty, but but
(31:27):
uh but we we went so so I Ithink that the role um
associations can play it'sexactly that.
Number one, forms a you knowgenuine uh uh human bond, but
number two, then just put smartpeople in the same room, make
them exchange notes, they'lllearn a lot more than the most
fancy sort of uh bigpresentation ever.
SPEAKER_02 (31:50):
Yeah, I I like that you said that, like especially
from the vendor perspective,like that is something that we
are very always cognizant and offrom like the TMSA leadership
side, because we don't we loveour partner members, we want to
continue to diversify ourpartner members, like you're
coming in as a new prospectingtool for sales.
(32:12):
That's something that we reallyhaven't had in the mix before,
um, in that way.
And so we want to diversify thepotential partner network, but
also bring in people who areintentional about the education
and wanting to learn themselvesbecause that's something like
when I sat in like our strategybuilding for next year, I'm like
our best partners are the oneswho are coming to TMSA to learn
(32:33):
also, and to then potentiallyshare thought leadership and
then at the end potentially getROI and make business deals.
The ones that come in hot andjust like try to like hard sell
everybody, people don't likelove that.
And I like that's I remembertelling you before you became a
partner, I'm like, where do youland on this?
Because this this will besuccessful for you if you
(32:53):
believe in the education first.
It might not be if you just wantto like hard sell everybody, and
that's been part of like mysales pitches when I have bring
partner members in because wewant people to feel like they're
part of the community thatthey're not being sold to all
the time, and then yes, havepotential solutions that can
make their lives easier too.
So I think that that'sespecially coming to your first
(33:15):
show.
I love that that was was yourtakeaway from it.
SPEAKER_00 (33:17):
So yeah, that was a fun time.
I'm glad I went awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (33:20):
So I have one last question for you before you
leave, and it's something I askeverybody who comes on the show.
And if that's if you could goback in time and advise a
younger version of yourselfanything, either personally or
professionally, what would yougo back to and what would you
say?
SPEAKER_00 (33:35):
It depends on how old am I going back, but well,
that's it.
You get to pick your age.
I would say um, just no, I I Iactually don't know if I have an
answer.
Um tricky because I you know, Ihear this question right in the
podcast, it's always the lastquestion.
(33:55):
Um I actually don't have anyadvice for the younger me
because I think all of theimportant ones I've heard it at
the right time from the rightfolks.
Um, I'm pretty lucky and andfeel um fortunate and and happy
about uh my life.
There's been ups and downs.
There's been I mean there's beenups and downs and downs and
(34:17):
downs and downs and some ups.
But um I think each one of thosedowns were uh just where you
know when ish sort of thing.
So so I appreciated it.
And yeah, no advice.
SPEAKER_02 (34:31):
Then I think the lesson there is to take every
moment that you're given andlearn from it and grow from it
and not be afraid to moveforward and move on from it.
So good advice.
There you go.
So perfect.
Thank you so much for um comingon the show.
So good to meet you in person afew weeks ago, and um such great
(34:52):
advice.
So thank you so much.
Have a good one.
SPEAKER_00 (34:53):
Thank you, Jay.
It's been a pleasure.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to On the Move, a show
where we share transportationsales and marketing success
stories.
I am Jennifer Cocus Romain,Executive Director of the
Transportation Marketing andSales Association, which is a
trade nonprofit educating andconnecting marketing and sales
professionals in the space.
And today on the show, I haveSean Wu, who is the co-founder
(00:44):
of Bread AI, and so excited tohave you on the show.
How are you doing today?
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
I'm doing great.
How are you, Jen?
And how do you do great as well?
SPEAKER_02 (00:53):
And excited to have you talk to you about all things
sales, automation, bread.
Excited about it.
So can you tell us about BreadAI, what it is, and how you guys
started to get it going?
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Sounds good.
So Bread AI, uh, it's aprospecting tool specialized for
three brokers and carriers.
Uh, how it started was actuallyuh it's a long time coming.
So I've been a sales rep all mycareer.
My first job was a telephoneracer.
So that means, Jen, I'll becalling you and say, we want to
(01:28):
give me 200 bucks, I'll give youback nothing.
Right?
So I started by selling nothing.
Then I started selling paymentservices, software consulting,
uh, and and other bankingservices.
Um, and I had the fortune, orsome we'll call misfortune, of
also selling freight for twomonths when I started getting
into this business.
(01:48):
And that's when I realizedselling freight is harder than
selling nothing.
It's so hard.
It is right.
So so that sort of like sparkedmy curiosity to think, how can
we make it easier?
Right.
And then and then on the otherhand, uh, just like everyone I
know, I'm also poisoned bysocial media.
So there was this one night whenI was dome scrolling through my
(02:11):
phone when I was not having agood day, uh, and before I know
it, like two, three hourspassed, right?
I'm just like scrolling anddoing nothing.
And then it hits me.
It's so easy to be, you know, uhcontrolled by the algorithm to
scroll, but why can't we makethe algorithms work for us and
(02:32):
make us sell sell thingsbrandlessly easy, live
scrolling?
So those two things combinedbecame bread.
We are building a tool thatmakes it so easy to self-freight
that it's like scrolling on yourphone.
So that's what it is all about.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
I love that.
And when you guys started, wasthat its original intention, or
were you trying to solve likeoperational problems, or how did
kind of it evolve from what youstarted and what you thought
bread would be to what it istoday?
SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
Yeah, we started this company now, it's almost
two years, two more years ago.
The first problem we're tryingto tackle was operational.
Um, uh, you know, this these arelow-building, you know, carrier
communication and whatnot.
And honestly, part of the reasonwas because that was the easy
pie to trying to go after.
(03:20):
Um, it's it's a uh more standardprocess and the and the
technology that the roadmap isvery clear of how to use AI to
do that.
But honestly, we broughtsomething to the market.
We have customers paying usthousands of bucks a month, uh
doing it.
But but the overall demand andand the feedback from the from
the you know broke brokeragesand carriers were yeah, it's
(03:43):
nice, it works, but I don'treally care because honestly,
you're automating the ops for myrep.
So now I'm just paying them thesame bucks, doing less work.
You can call me back when youcan help me sell.
So really it's it's coming fromum literally the customers
asking us, help me sell, andI'll pay you some bucks.
And we started to uh go intothat business.
SPEAKER_02 (04:04):
Well, I think that makes sense as an evolution,
taking something like, okay, wethought this would be really
useful, and it could be, but howdo we do sales more effectively?
And how do we create the tool tohelp sales be more effective?
So I know you said that you soldfreight for a time and you were
like, This is hard.
What a challenge, which I thinkso many people in this industry
can feel.
(04:25):
Was there a specific moment whenyou started this process and
started building bread that youwere like, yeah, no, freight
sales needs a shift, it needs tochange, or was it like your
experience building up over timeand then realizing what you
could actually build to help?
SPEAKER_00 (04:40):
Yeah, I think there are probably two moments where I
had an aha moment.
Uh, the first moment was when Iread Kara Brown's book, uh, The
Revenue Engine.
Matter of fact, you know, thisis not a prop.
I'm standing on top of mybookshelf, but I I have it with
me.
I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (04:59):
Somebody else, I was on a call yesterday, pulled that
out and showed that to me too.
I have mine.
It's actually, I have a massivebook sitting behind me and other
things.
Um, so I'm not gonna pull it outbecause it will unravel, but I
also have it in my nearvicinity.
SPEAKER_00 (05:14):
And and and it was it was a aha moment to me
because of two things.
Number one, the theory spoketrue to me.
Uh, and even honestly, in in away, it it's not it's not news
to me, uh, but just uh told in avery clear way, because I've
(05:35):
been selling tech and SaaS forfor a few years now.
And so I think Kira done areally great job system, you
know, making a comparison systemof how to do it uh for the for
the industry.
But the aha moment was when thenI go talk to all these sales
leaders, air brokerages andcarriers, and I ask them, ask
(05:56):
them about the concept of ICPtargeting, you know,
specializing, uh, and and andall these um um good practices.
No one ever argues with me aboutnot to do it, but no one also
ever does anything about it.
Um so I think that's the momentwhen I realize um people would
(06:20):
like to sell better and sell ina in a more effective way, but
they do struggle to do so, andand they probably need a way to
make it happen.
And and my my belief is theyhave enough tools and data and
all these you know wonderful,complex power power tools
sitting out there.
But what they don't have is aneasy enough way to piece
(06:44):
everything together.
Because honestly, like salesreps are not data analysts,
they're not they're not paid todo the job, it's not part of the
job description, jobrequirement, and they're not
trained to do so.
So they need something that's soeasy, that's like a toy, and
that inspired me to be like, allright, I think that's something
we can do here.
SPEAKER_02 (07:02):
Yeah.
And can you explain then howBritt AI actually works for the
sales rep when they're trying toutilize a platform?
SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
Absolutely.
Um, I think to talk about how itworks, I'll just start with uh
what goal is trying to achieve,right?
Um, because overall um it's aprospecting to and there's many
out there, right?
But I think how we are differentis I don't just want to find you
any shipper or the same shipperor the top shippers, which I
(07:30):
believe everybody calls, right?
And and then complain, man, I'mthe 10th person call that day.
Um so so I want to find you theright shipper, niche shipper,
um, sort of like under the radarshippers, right?
And and so how Brett works isthree steps.
Number one, I'll take an ICP oran ideal customer uh profile
(07:54):
from you.
You just need to give me oneexample of somebody you moved
free for last week, or you wantto move right from next week,
right?
And then we translate that intoa profile.
Um, and and that sort of takesthe seven dimensions of what I
think matters to moving freight.
Uh, and then you just wake up toa list of 10 or 20 uh specific
(08:16):
targets that's in your niche.
You know, it's fully researched,you know about their spam
facilities, contact decisionmakers, and there's a number to
call.
So that's that's what we do foryou.
SPEAKER_02 (08:27):
Very cool.
And when you look at the waymost brokers and carriers are
selling today, what do you thinkis the biggest mistake that
they're making?
SPEAKER_00 (08:35):
Yeah, I I think the mistake is there are two
mistakes.
Uh, number one is thinking thatspraying and praying still
works.
Uh it doesn't.
It does not, no.
Um, but the second mistake isthen go to the other extreme, I
think, and and and and thinkthat you have to hyper
(08:55):
personalize and target everysingle account, right?
And then lose the volume.
And that doesn't work neither,because that doesn't scale.
Because at the end of the day,and and that's why I think you
know it's easy for us to talkabout what does not work.
The hard part is what worksbecause it's it's kind of like
people are stuck in uh, youknow, between a hard and a rock,
rock and a hard place, becauseum it is a number scam at the
(09:18):
end of the day.
You need the numbers and themath to work, it's just that you
need a balance between highvolume but the conversion need
to make sense as well, right?
So I think the mistake islooking only to pull one of
these levers and not the other.
SPEAKER_02 (09:36):
And so that makes sense, and that's something that
like they should really stopdoing.
Like, stop thinking that you canjust spray the same thing.
And I would say, even with that,like one mistake I see a lot is
when they talk about how theycan do everything.
Like, oh, like because I canmess in this email, I can do
everything, but your customer oryour prospect doesn't care if
(09:57):
you can do everything, they wantto you to be able to do what
they need you to do.
So that's what I think like yourprospecting cool, like putting
it because then at least ifyou're not spraying everything
with the same thing, you can atleast categorize it and segment
it.
So, you know, cold shipping orlike whatever it looks like, you
can put it into buckets and thenat least semi-personalize it for
(10:20):
that particular capability.
SPEAKER_00 (10:22):
I think I think that's so true.
One thing I start justencouraging our user to do is to
say you can be a specialistwithout, but how do I put it?
Um, I I think one of the mosttrending parts of you know uh
sales strategy in Freight is umI sp I speak to so many brokers
(10:44):
and I ask them about what isyour uh ideal, ideal customer
profile, right?
Where do you specialize?
And the number one answer I getfrom anybody is you know,
anything goes, I can I can moveeverything, which is true
because you can find capacityanywhere, right?
But on the flip side, what I'mtrying to tell them is yes, you
can do everything, and you canspecialize in everything.
(11:09):
And the key is when you aretelling and when you're
communicating to a prospect, itdoesn't fly anymore to say, I
have a truck in your areabecause there are millions of
trucks across the state andyou're one of millions.
It's a different thing to say,uh Jenny, you mentioned you know
coaching, right?
You know, I I encourage them togo even a step further to say um
(11:31):
uh cabbage is in season rightnow, even in the winter, right?
These are winter greens.
Uh I have been a cabbagespecialized, you know,
temp-controlled uh commoditymover, right?
And I came across your farm, uh,I do this well and I can do it
for you.
You can specialize in cabbagethis week, right?
(11:52):
With this list of clients andyou can still specialize in
Flatpad to the next list ofclients.
The key is you have tospecialize to your prospect
every single time.
SPEAKER_02 (12:03):
And I think it's it's smart to also think about
what you do specialize inbecause especially in this
market, yes, everybody wants toget the loads, they want to be
able to move the freight, butyou need to be able to move it
successfully when you win ittoo.
That is true.
And I feel like thinking aboutthose ICPs, thinking, like I
like how you said it like, oh,we can specialize in cabbage
(12:25):
this week and flatbed next week,because we can do all that, and
we're gonna target our prospectsbased on these lists.
But I see two people potentiallystepping out of their ICP just
to get the business, but thatcan backfire on you because if
you don't execute it well, yeah,then you're ruining your brand
reputation too, and they're notgonna want to come back to you.
(12:48):
And so thinking about that,that's why I like the capability
to like semi-personalize it inwhat you can actually execute
on.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
Absolutely, because there are some battles that you
should be losing and youshouldn't fight those.
SPEAKER_02 (13:01):
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
So, like really understandingyour your business, what you
want to go after.
I always encourage marketingteams too to like check in on
your sales teams and in youraccount managers.
What is your capability rightnow?
What are you putting out therein your marketing messaging?
Because if your capacity doesn'tmatch, but you're trying to like
push out there, that's not greateither.
So I know we talked about likequite a few things, but is there
(13:24):
anyone else that like as aleader of a like freight sales
team right now, what are thethings that we should stop doing
and what we should be be doinginstead?
SPEAKER_00 (13:33):
Yeah.
Oh, so many thanks.
Um, stop everything.
Stop everything.
I I think the I think the toptwo things I think people should
stop is number one, stop callingany shipper, right?
I think we spoke about a littlebit, uh, but but specifically
stop calling the same top 100shippers that everyone else
(13:54):
calls, right?
I'm seeing this a lot and I hearso much complaint about oh, you
know, it's such a competitivemarket.
People uh people think I'mspamming them because they take
10 calls a day.
That happens because you'recalling the same people.
SPEAKER_02 (14:07):
Yeah, because you are.
You kind of are spamming.
SPEAKER_00 (14:09):
Because you are, because you are.
But but if I dig a little bit,you know, underneath of why this
is happening, this is not byintention, you know, uh, this is
by design of the tools you use,right?
I think most prospecting tools,uh be it Apollo Zoomingful or
others, um, they are they tendto be a large database resold to
(14:33):
everybody.
As a result, it's a searchengine and it's ranked, right?
Um, but the the search criteriais not specific enough.
So if everybody search food andbeverage businesses, even
package food businesses, thereare thousands of packaged food
businesses, right?
So are you going to the 1000thpage of the search result to
(14:55):
call those people?
You are not.
And if you're not, you'recalling the same first three
pages of shippers, and that iswhy you feel like it's so
saturated.
But but in effect, it's aboutdiscovering, it's almost like in
the stock market, there's alpha,right?
You have to go where otherpeople don't go.
You have to do that the same waywhen it comes to shippers, too.
So stop calling the sameshippers and start calling some
(15:17):
of these honor-the-railershippers.
That's number one.
Um, I have a number two too,because there's a lot of things
people should stop.
Awesome, great.
Number two is as a sales leaderspecifically, stop making your
reps think.
Well, I know it might be, Idon't know whether it's
controversial or not, right?
(15:38):
But but what I'm trying to getto is uh two uh two two things.
Number one, it is the salesleader's job to not only think,
come up with a strategy, butmake it exit uh make it
executionable, right?
Right, make make it such thatthe rep can actually follow and
(15:58):
do it.
It's not really a good strategywhen you say, hey, this is a
good idea, go try it.
How?
I don't know, figure it out,right?
So number one is it's it's thatthat's part of the job.
But number two, it's because thereps do not have the luxury, as
you and I, you know, sittinghere today, thinking about
thinking about strategy, right?
(16:20):
Because they are in thetrenches, they just got a bounce
last hour, right?
And they're trying to just coverthat load.
Nobody's got time to think aboutit, right?
Just like pilots rely onchecklist manuals to fly
airplanes, right?
It's not because you're notsmart, it's not because you're
not capable, it's because inthese high stress situations,
(16:42):
the only way to ensure you'refollowing the right strategy,
the right way to go about thingsis something so foolproof,
right, that you cannot miss it.
So I think an important part forsales leader is really think
about coming up with a strategyis step one, right?
But step two, have you served iton the plate?
(17:03):
Have you made it so clear and sosimple to follow that reps have
no excuse or no reason to say, Idon't know how to do it.
So those are the things I wish.
SPEAKER_02 (17:13):
Yeah, no, I think that's really smart.
I mean, the of course, you wantyour sales reps to be able to
understand, think through theplan, but build the strategy,
show them how to do it.
I do think, like, even when wetalk about like training of your
team, it's always people talkabout onboarding, but they don't
talk about continued training.
And so the market shifts, themarket change, like you said,
(17:34):
who knew cabbage would be a hotcommodity right now.
So, but like those are the typesof tips that can be helpful to
give your team and continue totrain them.
So it's more than just, oh, it'syour first three months as
you're onboarding.
This is how you this is how yousell freight, but like the
continued plan, the continuedstrategy, why why you're ebbing
and flowing, why you're movingthese things now, giving those
to your reps when they walk inthe door so they're able to just
(17:58):
execute and sell, I think isreally a solid advice.
SPEAKER_00 (18:01):
Yes, because Jen, what you just described is kind
of how software company and techcompanies sell, right?
Uh, you know, when I read Kara'sbook, it's all about you can
sell free, like you're sellingtech, because if you want that
growth rate, right, that's themodel.
But then the the enablementbehind that, you have a whole
(18:22):
data team, first of all, right?
Finding all these data, right?
Somebody's full-time job is toresearch and be like, what's the
seasonality of commoditiesmoving in your state?
That's a job.
Then there's a second job of youknow, uh creating the marketing
message around that, and thenthere's the SDR job to get
folding the door, and thenthere's the AE job to close it,
(18:43):
and then there's a full sort oflike uh support success job to
service it.
In the freight world, usuallyall of those five, six jobs are
one person.
So, how do you expect them to,you know, either they do one of
those five jobs, right?
Or they do a very you knowcrappy version of a little bit
of each, right?
(19:03):
So if you want them to succeed,you gotta staff them, right?
Either with a human resource orsometimes what I hope to do is
create a tool that kind of likedo the other five jobs, right?
In a simple way.
SPEAKER_02 (19:15):
Absolutely.
I'm glad that we kind of talkedabout the the tech enablement
and and because that reallysegues in into my next rounds of
questions, because there is somuch hype around AI and
logistics right now and all ofthe tools, but the tools also
need to be assessed in theirtheir value and understand what
(19:35):
they're actually giving you andwhat they can't actually give
you, and how we utilize ourhumans to do what they can do.
So, where do you see companieskind of getting the AI and
logistics and sales enablementright?
And then where are they gettingit wrong?
SPEAKER_00 (19:52):
I I think when they get it wrong is similar to a
little bit of what we talkedabout, which is they think if I
just get these tools, and by theway, AI is like the new trend or
the new phase of this tech wave,but there's nothing new under
the sun.
This happened when it was calledbig data, when it was called you
(20:14):
know mark tech, when it wascalled something else, right?
But the but the same sort offailure mode um that that that
is happening is um companieswill look at an exciting tech
tool, uh AI or not, and it'samazing promises.
They'll even give it a try andthen be like, okay, I can see
this going on, and they will buyit, and then they'll put it on
(20:38):
the desk of the rep and be like,here you go, and now you should
be making me double the money,right?
Um, what's missing is is numberone, the connection of the
strategy, right?
So to your point, um, making therep understand they don't have
to think in the trenches, right?
But before they go in, just thestart of the day, start of the
(20:58):
month, start of the quarterlyplanning, helping understand why
you are getting this tool andwhat is it doing in our
strategy.
A tool is a means to an end,right?
And it's there to serve acohesive strategy, which is
there's no replacement for.
Number one, do that.
Number two, uh, it's then toyour point, continuous training
(21:19):
uh and making sure that it's notjust like they now have login
and they you know sign on thepage once uh and and then that's
that's training, right?
Make sure that they get support,whether internal or from the
vendor, right, to actually um uhknow how to use the tool and and
and you should be monitoring arethey actually using the tool,
(21:41):
right?
Because there's so much so manytimes where people waste money
by the tool that just sit thereon the shelf, right?
Whereas it actually could bevaluable and useful if you if
there they are investment inimplementing it and making sure
people are on board.
SPEAKER_02 (21:55):
Absolutely.
Um, yes, I think so.
I used to work in software, andthat was always like people were
like, oh, what how what's thebest?
So I was in like Sierra Sorry,what's the best one?
Well, the answer is what is thebest for you and what you need
and what your team needs to besuccessful, and they're like,
but no, what is the best oneagain?
(22:17):
What does your team need?
Ask them, hey, what is ourcurrent tool not do for you that
you would like it to do?
Um, and then you go from therebecause then there's there's
always like, okay, do we need awhole new system or can we do an
add-on or some type ofintegration that's going to help
do that thing?
And so I feel like understandingthat, and then also the biggest
(22:38):
thing is um, like, what are yougetting for your your price
point?
Because all like almost everysoftware has tiers, and make
sure that you're not distractedwith all the pretty bells and
whistles on that top tier thatyou're not paying for, because
you need to make you need tomake sure.
So I do think that, like, yes,like like you said, hey, AI
might be the trendy new wordtoday, but every trend new tech
(22:59):
word that came before it was thesame.
Hey, yeah, see what itscapabilities are, see if it
actually enables your team to bemore successful and at a price
point you can afford.
That's a really good startingpoint.
SPEAKER_00 (23:12):
Yeah, you go.
SPEAKER_02 (23:13):
Um and I do think though, like when AI is being
used properly, it can unlockcapabilities that freight
salespeople didn't have before.
What are what do you think someof those pieces are when people
are actually utilizing the toolsin the best way?
SPEAKER_00 (23:30):
I'll talk about uh two sort of uh AI specific
successes I I've seen.
Uh one uh related to sales andwhat we do, and the other is not
even what we do, but just solidwork.
Uh so so what works in sales nowis in the so we spoke about this
dynamic of spray and pray don'twork, but hyper personalizing
(23:54):
every single account doesn'tscale neither, right?
So if you need both volume andconversion, it's almost like you
have to make a choice.
AI, when used to write, andthat's how we do it, can help
you have both and have it allspecifically.
Um because AI is, I mean,there's so much under the word
(24:19):
AI, right?
But specifically in the case ofhow we use it, because you could
use AI to come comprehend and umattack, index, and understand
different companies anddifferent shippers of what they
do, and break it down to a verygranular level beyond the
typical search engine filter offood and beverage, right?
(24:41):
For example, um, under food andbeverage, there's you know,
produce packaged food andothers.
Under produce, there's you know,winter greens and others, and
under winter green, there'scabbage, right?
So uh the typical uh prospectingtool won't go that deep and
allow you to specialize, butbecause uh we are using AI to
kind of read what they do andeverything, we can.
(25:02):
And as a result, you're gettinga specialized list of that
commodity, which then helps youspray within this very you know
targeted niche, right?
But uh you are not doinghomework one by one, you're
doing homework once and thenapplying to many in a high
conversion rate.
So that's one thing I I've seenor worked uh in sales in
(25:27):
marketing, and this is actuallysomething I learned at the TMSA
conference just uh two weeksago.
Um, and and because marketing isactually I'm new to marketing,
you know.
I believe yeah, I have to behonest, I'm learning, you know.
Thank you.
That's why I signed up.
Uh I I've been a self-rep all mylife, right?
(25:49):
So my my you know go-to thinkingis sell, sell, sell, call it,
right?
Have a conversation and andclose right now, A B C, right?
Um it really opens my my my sortof eyes uh when I start talking
to the marketing teams, right?
Not just uh marketing teams umuh um uh selling freight, but
(26:11):
also even the marketingconsultant uh at the MSA.
And and what I learned is numberone, not everybody is ready to
buy uh at all the time.
So sometimes the conversation,if you go to somebody who is not
thinking about you, not tryingto buy, and you'll be like, hey,
we need to close right now, theythey just think you're pushy or
aggressive and annoying becausethat's the truth, right?
(26:33):
So there's a different thingsabout how do you you know
nurture them, how do you bringawareness and all that.
In the past, the answer is aquote unquote personalized
campaign, right?
Where we say, hello, bracketfirst name, uh I am from right
(26:54):
XYZ.
I uh you know, I sometimes, youknow, bracket your industry and
whatnot, right?
So that's a type ofpersonalization, which I think
when I get an email myself aswell.
I can see it's a little bitscripted, right?
And it connect connects less.
One thing I learned at the TMSAuh uh conference two weeks ago
was some folks are now using ARto do a per recipient level full
(27:22):
personalization, right?
So what they do is they don'tsay, hey, chat GPT, go crazy, uh
say anything, right?
They would teach ChatGPT likehow you would mentoring a you
know sales rep or a marketingrep, and be like, our strategic
goal is this, and these are thecore messages we want, right?
(27:45):
These are the data points aboutthis specific company, whether
it's their location, uh, thisperson's sort of uh LinkedIn
post and personal activity,company news and whatnot.
And now use all of this, createa different message for every
single person.
(28:06):
So that that blew my mind.
And and later on I checked witha couple of my tech friends who
tried it actually, and they'retelling me it's higher
conversion, right?
You go from probably you know uhtwo percent uh uh sort of
conversion from code uhmarketing campaign to to five,
uh which is it's doubling,right?
And that's that's that'spowerful.
SPEAKER_02 (28:27):
Well, I'm glad that you came to TMSA and you were
able to learn things, which isjust I think um, so you were at
the executive summit, and thatthat whole event is designed for
leaders in the space to cometogether, and then Elevate is
designed for everybody to cometogether, but we actually will
be kind of taking a track-basedmodel next year.
So um really excited to diveinto that more.
(28:51):
But I do think that one of myfavorite things when I came to
TMSA, so before I led TMSA, Iwas a member, and it's exactly
that, but I was the opposite.
So I was on the marketing sideand I was like, where are the
salespeople?
Tell me what I can do toactually enable my sales team
and what is actually helpful forthem and how can we do this more
(29:11):
effectively together?
And I don't want to sound stupidto my sales team.
So, like, what can I do to soundsmart?
And so I I loved that about TMSAbecause you could find people
who are in your similar job roleand you can commiserate and
learn and do that, but you canalso find people that are on the
other parts, or if you'regrowing in your career, you can
find a leader or whatever.
(29:32):
So um I am curious.
So, like that was your firstkind of experience.
Like, I know we touched base, wewere hoping that you were able
to come, and so glad that wewere able to make that work.
You joined as a partner member,which we're so thankful for you
to be in the organization.
What role do you thinkassociations like TMSA play in
helping sales and marketingteams evolve over time?
SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
Um I I think I think it is what we spoke about.
Which is it's actuallyeducation, right?
Um I've I've uh without namingany names, I've been involved
with a couple of differentassociations, right?
Which I think everybody'sintention is to educate, right?
But often association can evolveinto a vendor marketplace.
(30:20):
Uh and that is dangerous becauseI think the the transaction, the
sales, you know, I'm a vendor.
Of course, I would love to sellto more folks, right?
Hey, everybody at TMSAlistening, please buy me.
But I think that comes after theeducation.
People need to um, everything wespoke about today, picking the
right tool, making sure it'suseful, uh, uh not just try
(30:42):
something and then churn in acouple months.
All of that, it's such awonderful opportunity to be an
association uh for people uh onthe vendor side to share real,
tangible, successful stories ofhow things are working without
making any asks and demands,right?
Uh and and then and then youknow see what it leads to,
(31:04):
right?
And on the other hand, um uhde-emphasize the transaction uh
nature of it and just start withjust real human connection.
Like then I met you, uh and itwas pretty fun, right?
And then made other uh folks uhat the conference who now I'm
still in touch, and some of weeven went for dinner, right?
Like after that, after thetackle, which is tasty, but but
(31:27):
uh but we we went so so I Ithink that the role um
associations can play it'sexactly that.
Number one, forms a you knowgenuine uh uh human bond, but
number two, then just put smartpeople in the same room, make
them exchange notes, they'lllearn a lot more than the most
fancy sort of uh bigpresentation ever.
SPEAKER_02 (31:50):
Yeah, I I like that you said that, like especially
from the vendor perspective,like that is something that we
are very always cognizant and offrom like the TMSA leadership
side, because we don't we loveour partner members, we want to
continue to diversify ourpartner members, like you're
coming in as a new prospectingtool for sales.
(32:12):
That's something that we reallyhaven't had in the mix before,
um, in that way.
And so we want to diversify thepotential partner network, but
also bring in people who areintentional about the education
and wanting to learn themselvesbecause that's something like
when I sat in like our strategybuilding for next year, I'm like
our best partners are the oneswho are coming to TMSA to learn
(32:33):
also, and to then potentiallyshare thought leadership and
then at the end potentially getROI and make business deals.
The ones that come in hot andjust like try to like hard sell
everybody, people don't likelove that.
And I like that's I remembertelling you before you became a
partner, I'm like, where do youland on this?
Because this this will besuccessful for you if you
(32:53):
believe in the education first.
It might not be if you just wantto like hard sell everybody, and
that's been part of like mysales pitches when I have bring
partner members in because wewant people to feel like they're
part of the community thatthey're not being sold to all
the time, and then yes, havepotential solutions that can
make their lives easier too.
So I think that that'sespecially coming to your first
(33:15):
show.
I love that that was was yourtakeaway from it.
SPEAKER_00 (33:17):
So yeah, that was a fun time.
I'm glad I went awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (33:20):
So I have one last question for you before you
leave, and it's something I askeverybody who comes on the show.
And if that's if you could goback in time and advise a
younger version of yourselfanything, either personally or
professionally, what would yougo back to and what would you
say?
SPEAKER_00 (33:35):
It depends on how old am I going back, but well,
that's it.
You get to pick your age.
I would say um, just no, I I Iactually don't know if I have an
answer.
Um tricky because I you know, Ihear this question right in the
podcast, it's always the lastquestion.
(33:55):
Um I actually don't have anyadvice for the younger me
because I think all of theimportant ones I've heard it at
the right time from the rightfolks.
Um, I'm pretty lucky and andfeel um fortunate and and happy
about uh my life.
There's been ups and downs.
There's been I mean there's beenups and downs and downs and
(34:17):
downs and downs and some ups.
But um I think each one of thosedowns were uh just where you
know when ish sort of thing.
So so I appreciated it.
And yeah, no advice.
SPEAKER_02 (34:31):
Then I think the lesson there is to take every
moment that you're given andlearn from it and grow from it
and not be afraid to moveforward and move on from it.
So good advice.
There you go.
So perfect.
Thank you so much for um comingon the show.
So good to meet you in person afew weeks ago, and um such great
(34:52):
advice.
So thank you so much.
Have a good one.
SPEAKER_00 (34:53):
Thank you, Jay.
It's been a pleasure.
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