September 25, 2024 • 38 mins
Ready to navigate the complexities of the transportation industry? Join us as we sit down with Matthew Berkshire, CEO of Flow Trans, who shares his extraordinary journey from being recruited by owner Charlie Johnson during his undergrad years to becoming the head of a major logistics company. Matthew recounts his rise through the ranks, emphasizing the importance of internal growth and belief in one’s potential. Together, we explore how possessing a clear understanding of your role within a broader organizational context and continuously honing your skills can be more fulfilling than simply chasing promotions or raises.
Curious about the economic forces reshaping the transportation market? Matthew and I examine the dramatic overscaling during the COVID-19 pandemic and the subsequent strive towards equilibrium. We discuss the influence of socio-political events, Federal Reserve actions, and regional market dynamics. Matthew also delves into Flow Trans' commitment to sustainability and their holistic approach to environmental practices, particularly in their Chicago operations. This portion of our conversation offers a comprehensive look into the challenges and opportunities brought about by these unprecedented times.
On the topic of personal and professional growth, we discuss the timeless wisdom found in Dale Carnegie’s "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and how it continues to shape our interactions. We also tackle the nuances of generational diversity in the workplace, the evolving perception of leadership, and the art of maximizing conference connections. Tune in for practical advice, market insights, and Matthew's unique perspective on leading a thriving logistics company.
Check out the Transportation Sales and Marketing Association (TMSA) website or engage with us on LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (00:01):
Hello everybody, welcome to On the
Move, a show where we sharetransportation sales and
marketing success stories.
I'm Jennifer Karps-Romain,executive Director at the
Transportation Marketing andSales Association, which is a
trade nonprofit educating andconnecting marketing and sales
professionals in the space.
Today on the show, I haveMatthew Berkshire, who is CEO at
(00:24):
Flowtrans.
Welcome on the show.
I have Matthew Berkshire, whois CEO at Flowtrans.
Welcome to the show, matthew.
Matthew Berkshire (00:28):
Jennifer, thank you so much for having me.
I'm really excited to be heretoday.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (00:33):
I'm happy to have you here and I
love getting to like we've knowneach other for a couple years,
but these are always funopportunities for me to get to
know people better and shareyour expertise, your knowledge
and all that great fun stuff forour audience as well.
So you've been at Flowtrans formore than 11 years and you're
(00:53):
in that CEO seat now, but itlooks like you actually came
into the company more on thepersonnel side of things before
kind of rising into thatposition.
So can you tell us a little bitabout your journey both at
Flowtrans and in the industry?
Matthew Berkshire (01:06):
Yeah, yeah, I did not get to Flow Trans or
trucking in the traditional way.
I had met our owner.
We're owned by a gentlemannamed Charlie Johnson, CJ
Johnson.
He owns a few differententities in the ecosystem and he
had actually tried to recruitme when I was an undergrad.
(01:30):
We share a social fraternity,although we went to different
schools.
I was on the national board andI was speaking, and I think I
was a junior and undergrad atthe time and I don't think that
I had met him before.
Uh, maybe we had met in passingand I walked into the, the
hotel bar, after speaking and heoffered me a job in a very like
(01:54):
crowded, crowded bar, which wasboth, uh, pretty on brand for
CJ, but very like, like reallythrew me for a loop for like a
week, like I I still like feelit as discussing it.
And so I was doing, I was in newengland and I was doing
graduate school and I hadchanged my linkedin profile to
(02:19):
like looking to get back intothe market.
I quickly realized I was.
I was in academia and Irealized I don't want to teach.
I had worked through undergrad,I wanted to go back in the
market and within a few hours Ihad an email which turned into a
phone call, which turned into aplane ticket in my email.
(02:39):
I came out to Chicago and hesaid hey, I'll let you kind of
design a job that you thinkworks for you.
I'll pay you within reason, butkind of what you want to do and
how much you want to make, kindof offer.
(03:01):
I joined, I think, in 2000 ortwo years.
We had an opening and I becamethe executive vice president.
Then we had another opening.
I became the interim CEO forabout eight months and I've been
the full CEO ever, ever sincethen, and so a lot of that is I
(03:26):
can't claim credit for.
It's, you know, charlie havinga vision and Charlie being able
to believe in people, which Ithink is the best thing that you
can have in a relationshipbetween co-workers, is a belief
as a belief.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (03:43):
Yeah, I think that's really important,
and also finding the ability torise in the company that you're
at too.
I think a lot of times when wetalk about recruitment,
retention and all those things,sometimes people leave just
because they don't understandhow they can stay, and so
creating those internalopportunities are really
(04:04):
important.
So glad that you've been ableto find success along the way at
Flowtrans.
Matthew Berkshire (04:14):
Yeah, I love how you phrase that that people
leave because they don'tunderstand how they can stay.
Yeah, that's a great way to putit.
And you know again, havingbelief in people that you work
with, and having people that youwork with have belief in you.
And it's not always, you know,necessarily a vertical move.
Sometimes it's an internal move, where this is how we can grow
(04:36):
you, this is how we can give younew skills, this is how we can
give you new responsibilities.
You know kind of having a pulseon what motivates people and
what's keeping them excited andwhat you can do to kind of up
the ante.
There is something that I thinkwe forget about sometimes.
A lot of times, we think it'sjust you know well, this person
needs a raise, they need anaward, they need a promotion,
(05:00):
and sometimes it's about youknow, how can we give them the
internal skills to go and findthose things, rather than just
you know, seeing the promotionas the solution?
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (05:14):
Yeah, I definitely.
I like to say that I think oneof the most important things is
for people to understand theirpiece of the puzzle, and that I
like stuck with that for areally long time and then, as I
grew in my leadership journey, Ialso realized that they need to
not just understand their pieceof the puzzle, but also how it
connects into the puzzle,because sometimes we move so
(05:35):
fast and things are changing andmergers and acquisitions happen
and there's personnel changesand all of the chaos that we
exist in, and so we'll be like,okay, this is your job and this
is what you're doing, and thenyou kind of like scamper away.
But they're like, okay, but likewho am I supposed to work with
and where's the overlap andwho's?
Who am I?
Am I in charge of people?
And like we forget thoseelements.
(05:56):
Or like, if you're developingnew capabilities, what, what is?
What are they doing with them,or are they?
And so that's something in myown leadership journey that I
really process is like it's notjust explaining what their role
is, but how does that fit in theoverall landscape today and
where can they grow tomorrow?
I think that's really important.
Matthew Berkshire (06:15):
Yeah, I think that that's really well put For
anybody watching that's not intransportation.
Business in itself is chaoticand can be crazy.
Trucking and logistics is morechaotic and maybe more dynamic
is the word I want to use thanany business I've ever seen,
(06:36):
I've ever consulted on, I'veever been a part of, and it
changes so rapidly and thatrapid change becomes the new
normal very quickly, and so Ithink understanding our
subjective context this is whatI do, this is my part, but that
absolutely how that plays intothe overall objective context of
(06:59):
the business is key in helpingpeople not only understand their
place and where they're at, butwhere they could go and how
important they are to the, tothe overall business.
I think when people get how,how much they mean to the
company it it, it's a gamechanger.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (07:20):
For sure , and it is, is it?
It is a very dynamic and a bitchaotic industry and we are here
rounding out Q3, rolling intothe end of the year.
I'm curious what you think iscoming up for the holiday season
and then what we can start toexpect in 2025.
Matthew Berkshire (07:39):
It.
Uh, it's, yeah I, I Just areally softball question to
answer.
You know I think crazy is anoverused phrase I'm just coming
off using that to describetransportation but the
post-COVID market in freight hasbeen really, really nuts, has
(08:04):
been really, really nuts, andwhat I consistently see is that
I don't think anybody trulyunderstands it, and every report
that I read is like things aregetting back to normal, things
are gonna peak next month, nextquarter, things are going up.
And then the reports that I reada couple months later well, it
didn't happen in Q2, but Q3 isgetting back, and so I think,
(08:29):
blessedly after these last threeor four years, we are actually
returning to a sense of normalcyand the market trends this year
have looked pretty close to2019.
And they're trending in waysthat are much more predictable
and easier to read, which keepsmy blood pressure a little more
(08:51):
in check than it's been.
What I'm seeing right now isthat spot market's up a couple
percentage points.
Intermodal is up a little,across the border to Canada is
up.
Across the border to Mexico isrelatively flat.
Truckload rates are kind ofstaying flat, up a few like
(09:15):
margins on a percentage point,and so I really think that kind
of the market has recovered.
What we don't talk about a lotis that during COVID we made so.
So many people dramaticallyoverscaled because the economy
boomed, the freight marketboomed and you had government,
(09:37):
an influx of government capital,and so, all of a sudden, the
number of trucks went up, thenumber of chassis went up, the
number of facilities and crossstocks, it all really went
through the roof, whereas wewere looking at truck purchases
going up about 2,000 nationwidefor a year for
(09:58):
over a decade and then whenCOVID hit it went up like five
times that in that first year,and so our demand, or our
capacity, has really outstrippedour demand and I think now,
over this past year, we'rereturning to a point of
equilibrium.
I don't think it's going to bethe huge boom that we'd all love
(10:23):
to see, but I think predictablywe're going to probably go up
5% over the next month and itshould be a good holiday season,
and then we know we bottomedout in May and it's been a kind
of a continuous push back up theladder.
I think that's going tocontinue really nicely.
(10:44):
We're in a weird time becausewe have some socio-political
events.
We have an election coming up,there's a lot of stuff that can
kind of affect the market, andso whichever way our election
goes, I probably see a 5% to 10%increase on the high end.
(11:05):
But I'm at the point where I'mnot staying up at night worrying
, and so that's nice.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (11:15):
For sure , and you just mentioned a whole
lot of stuff that can impactthe market, which I think is
really important to think about.
Yes, the increased um, likeequipment and things that
happened over cobit.
Also, we are in election year,so everyone just kind of waiting
to see what happened and andwhat does that all look like?
Are there any other activitiesor trends that you're seeing
(11:39):
that's really affecting themarket right now?
Matthew Berkshire (11:50):
I think that this year will look a little bit
more like 2019 than the pasttwo years have, because there
was such a ramp up in gettingstuff over and getting stuff
built that warehouses have beenfull for the last few years and
now, for the first time in a fewyears other than, you know,
(12:11):
stuff that's that's hyperseasonal we're seeing pretty
normal warehousing levels thatthere's space, we've had a lot
of new stuff built and so Ithink that warehousing will will
have an effect on on the market, uh, because now you will have
people needing to bring in stuffover this next month to gear up
(12:34):
and get get stores and andshelf stock for the holiday
season.
Uh, I think I, like everybodyelse in the world right now, is
watching the the Fed prettycarefully as a predictor, and it
seems like once a week I hearthat, like you know, janet
Yellen could go live withinminutes and rates are coming
(12:55):
down and people are gearing upand we see that that's having an
effect on the transportationmarket, but the stock market as
a whole, and we know that whenthat does happen, that'll affect
that market, which will, inturn, uh affect our market, and
I I think that I think with withgood basic waterfall theory.
(13:16):
Uh, we know that the biggestcarriers in the industry are are
on the forefront of that waveand they're already starting to
see some positive returns.
So I think those are the bigthings I think that are
affecting the external market.
I think the internal market isvery different based on region.
(13:40):
One of the trends that I'mseeing internally at a lot of
companies not just freight, butespecially freight is that there
was a dramatic overscalingduring COVID, because you had
all this influx of capital andso you had all these CEOs that
you know.
All of a sudden.
(14:00):
You know, my five-year plan wasto get three more trucks at a
smaller company.
Well, I get five trucks rightnow or or whatever, and so
people really hit the hit thescale button and, as as the
market's cooled, uh, we've seensome people leave the market,
and so that's created issues atsome companies.
(14:22):
It's also created opportunities.
If you were a company that wasconservative during this and
didn't really slam theaccelerator to the floor, now
there are lots of picks outthere from everybody, from sales
, c-suite level, entry level,broker workers.
(14:42):
There's a lot of peopleavailable that are skilled on
the market right now.
Jennifer Karpus-Roma (14:50):
Absolutely .
I think one of the other biggertrends that I'm seeing that
people are talking about is apush towards sustainability, and
I know at Flowtrans it's a partof its mission to partner with
environmentally ethicalcompanies.
You've partnered with theDepartment of Transportation
SmartWeave program, you usepaperless billing, you don't use
(15:11):
any single use plastic withinyour office and you have a
completely new fleet that is atthe head of the market in terms
of gas mileage.
I found this all on yourwebsite.
It's all very informative, butI thought it was really cool
because I think when we talkabout sustainability, people
might think about that in justone way, and so I really like
that.
You guys are taking a holisticapproach to that and I'm curious
(15:32):
like why is that a corecompetency at Flowtrans and how
did you kind of pick where tostart and then keep going?
Matthew Berkshire (15:41):
I wish that I could come and say you know,
hey, this is, this is like my,my moral crusade, and that you
know I'm a huge advocate forthis.
I think for us it made a lot ofsense.
Business wise, we're located inChicago.
If you read the Forbes report,there's a report that comes out
(16:03):
every year on kind ofenvironmental efficacy and
Chicago.
I was super surprised because Iwould think that it would be
like California, oregon, newMexico, places like that that
would be leading the push.
And Chicago ranks at the topfor, like green buildings, the
number of people that believethat, like, businesses should
(16:25):
have an environmental plan, thenumber of politicians that
believe that, you know,environmental efficacy should be
a core competency of businesses.
And so we looked at it and wefelt that, hey, you know, this
is really something that ourcity is pushing for.
And then, as the workforce isgenerationally shifting, one of
(16:49):
the things that has become veryobvious is that, probably with
my generation and with the nextgeneration, you have people that
are not coming into theworkforce thinking that, hey,
I'm going to come to this onecompany and I'm gonna stay here
forever and I'm gonna move upand I'm gonna retire here
(17:10):
someday.
You have people that are like,hey, I maybe I'll be here for a
couple years, maybe I'll be herefor a couple months, and you
have people that are looking fora bigger reason to come into
work.
Then, oh, I, you know, I madethe company money, I made the
owner money, I made theshareholders money and when we
(17:32):
thought about it, I, you knowthe I felt like the the great.
What's a better cause than kindof saving the planet?
Uh, you know, I've alwaysthought that the trucking and
transportation I I think it'sthe greatest business in the US.
I think it's criminal that it'snot talked about and that truck
(17:52):
drivers aren't talked about asheroes.
But since the frontier economy,and even before that, even in
the revolutionary economy,almost everything that people
owned has been brought there,whether it's on a ship, a wagon.
You know, over the last hundredyears it's really been on
(18:13):
trucks and that's never beenmore true than it is today.
And you know, amazon's doingsome crazy stuff in Chicago you
can get stuff delivered by likea drone.
It's pretty cutting edge andpretty crazy.
But when, when I first applied,one of the things that CJ
Johnson said was that until theyreally like, until Star Trek
(18:36):
gets in the picture and they canteleport stuff.
Somebody is gonna have to bringthat, that to you, whether it's
a shirt, your, your meal, youryour pens, a desk, a desk
whatever that all comes.
That all comes on trucks.
Sometimes it comes severaltimes on trucks.
Sometimes the ingredients andthe materials to make something
(18:58):
are brought on one truck, talkother materials on another, that
finished products coming on onetruck.
I mean trucks are really thebackbone of the economy and in
the US, with us beingcapitalists, the economy is the
backbone of the entire country,and so I think that just
(19:18):
trucking plays such a wonderfulrole.
It's natural to believe thatpeople are going to want a green
link in their supply chain.
It's natural to see that inChicago we have a lot of
businesses whether they'regovernment, for-profit,
not-for-profit, private andpublic that you know see
(19:40):
themselves as having a duty tothe world and a duty to the
environment.
And when I looked out on thelandscape, I didn't see a lot of
other carriers, a lot of otherplaces providing options for
people to move stuff in a waythat they'd be proud of.
(20:01):
A lot of people choose whatthey're purchasing based on you
know how it's made.
Is this made sustainably?
Is it sustainable fabric.
You know, seeing huge, hugemovements like stuff going from
like Regular fur to syntheticfur or goose down to synthetic
down.
People are very concerned andthey're showing that with their
(20:23):
wallet about sustainability,sustainability.
So it made a lot of naturalsense to us that people would
see the supply chain and howsomething got from, you know, a
forest to a factory, a factoryto a manufacturer, manufacturer
to a store.
That people would look at thatin the the same way that they're
looking at you know how is this?
(20:44):
sourced and all that other stuff, and so it's been good.
We believe in it, we're able toeducate our employees on it.
Part of orientation is talkingabout, you know, that green
factor and how can we can kindof differentiate ourselves from
the rest of the market and it'sbeen attractive to people.
(21:06):
You know, we, we have it'scommon in our interview process
that somebody will say well, youknow, I I thought I was going
to get out of this industry andthen I saw that.
Or, you know, I didn't thinkI'd ever come into this industry
, but you know.
But I'm seeing it not so muchas I'm poofing three pallets
(21:28):
from here to Tucson, I'm seeingit as, hey, I'm making the world
a little bit better, oneshipment at a time.
So it's been a nice thing forus to get into, although I
didn't start out, as you know, ahuge believer.
I'm a crusader for it now.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (21:49):
I think all that is really important.
I like to think that ifeverybody did a little bit of
something like so, muchimprovement can be made.
And I also think you have tostart small before you can grow
back.
So, like now, you guys have allof these different initiatives,
but it's not like you, on dayone, are able to push all of
that out.
And I also really liked whenyou're talking about the
(22:10):
conversations during interviews,because that is a huge piece of
what I'm seeing for thegenerations coming into the
workplace is that they do wantto align with companies and work
for companies that believe insomething and that it aligns to
like their core values in a waythat we may not have evaluated
the same way.
(22:30):
So I think that's incrediblyimportant when we're thinking
about stuff like that and bothwe should do it.
But also from a sales andmarketing perspective, how are
you publicizing that Like?
I intentionally read every pieceof what was on your website
because I was able to find thatin 30 seconds, because from a
marketing standpoint, that'samazing, because it's easy to
(22:54):
find.
You guys talk about it.
You talk about that it's a corecompetency and why it's
important to your business.
So, if I was whether I waswanting to partner with you on a
business standpoint or work foryou.
I can see what your values are,what you're actually doing.
You're not just saying, hey, wecare about sustainability here,
we're listing out how we'redoing that, from our trucks to
our office place, and so I justthought that was really powerful
(23:15):
, and so I think those arethings to think about too, that
it's not just doing them, butalso then, how are you promoting
them, how are you showing themso that people can learn about
what you're doing?
That's nice of you to say Thankyou, of course.
(23:36):
So I, of course, learned allabout the sustainability stuff,
but I was also looking at yourLinkedIn to hear, to see about
your history, and one of thethings that really stood out to
me about you yourself is thatyou're a pretty avid reader, and
you're highlighting a ton ofbooks on LinkedIn and what they
meant to you as a reader, whichis also really helpful for
everybody else who's like superbusy all the time and you're
like, no, thank you.
I do need to learn that lesson.
I will read that book thatMatthew told me too.
But if you had to pick one bookthis year that really left an
(23:58):
impact on you.
What would it be?
Matthew Berkshire (24:03):
So it's, I I'll give you a really obvious
one, which is almost always thebook I say Uh, and then I'll,
I'll give you a newer one.
I think the obvious one issomething that, uh, my, my mom
had me read when I wasgraduating in high school and
(24:26):
for years I, I, I was like thisis the stupidest book I've ever
read.
This is, this is like a creepybook, like I don't like this at
all.
And then I went to uh, I thinkit was a, it was one of your
guys meetings and the questioncame up of like what's, what's
the best thing you've read?
And I, you know one personstarted it off and then the next
(24:49):
person said, well, it's thisbook.
And I kind of rolled my eyes.
And then the next, like five orsix people said the same book.
And so I went back and I read itand you know that was that was
four or five years ago and I'veread that book once or twice
again every single year sincethen.
And that's that's.
(25:10):
That's Dale Carnegie's how toWin Friends and Influence People
, it's.
I really think that you couldprobably say that the the rest
of like business books that comeout are kind of the footnotes
to that of just how to treatpeople and how to make people
feel good and how to, how to begenuinely interested.
(25:32):
Uh, and people that are kind ofas times change, you know those
skills are and in some casesgoing by the wayside for the
general masses.
But I find that people that arereally successful and people
that kind of have magnetism thatdraw you in and make you want
to be around them, and want towork with you.
(25:55):
They really really have thoseskills and they're genuinely
interested.
Something that I read reallyrecently that I was a little
skeptical of because it was by astatistician who was also a
competitive poker player andgambler, and it's an entire book
(26:17):
written about when to take bigrisks and when to hold off on
taking big risks.
Big risks and when to hold offon taking big risks.
Uh, and as a consumer and areal devourer of like
information, I find that often Iam conservative and a little
slow in my decision making, uh,and so risk can sometimes be a
(26:40):
really scary proposition for me.
You know, I want to getbusiness, the business running
to where it's doing good in andout.
It might not be peaking all thetime, but we're steady, and so
taking those risks where there'sa high reward but also the
potential of a high risk can bescary, and this book really
(27:05):
changed the way of how I lookfor market indicators, but it
also changed a lot of myfeelings around taking risks.
Have you read anything goodrecently?
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (27:31):
So I'm not like I have, but I am
currently in like a long streamof murder mystery audio books.
Like just I recently likeredownloaded the Libby app where
you can like do all the audiobooks from the library and I'm
just like knocking them out.
And it to the point where I'mlike I feel like I need to stop,
because my dreams are startingto get kind of weird because
it's just like one murder afterthe other.
So cause I'll go in like shiftswhere I'm like, okay, I need to
(27:52):
like, not need to, but I liketo read the business books, be
really, really thoughtful, butthen sometimes I just need a
brain break so I go into theselike deep dives and things,
other things that have no valuebesides their demons.
Yeah, yeah.
So so I've been into that lately, but I was actually thinking
(28:12):
the other day like I shouldprobably toss in one of the
other things I know.
I started like the Atomic Habitbook that everybody talks about
too, because that's somethinglike I'm really really
self-motivated on many things,but the things that I'm not like
, how do I then push myselfforward there?
So that would be like probablymy personal goal to get that one
(28:35):
done because I've heard suchgreat things about it.
One of my favorites that I'veread over the past couple years
is called a new kind ofdiversity, and it talks kind of
about what we were talking about, about just like how different
generations are different andwhat they care about.
And one of the most the thingthat stuck with me is thinking
(28:55):
about kids coming out of collegetoday may have never had
another job before, like all ofthe life skills that you learned
like.
I worked at a donut shop foryears in high school and it was.
There was a lot of interestingcharacters that came in there.
I learned how to deal with likedifferent ethnicities,
different like, and it was likefour in the morning when I am
(29:19):
not my best self and justlearning how to still have great
customer support.
I worked by myself or withother people.
I also then had developedrelationships with people who
were older than me, that weren'tmy parents or my teachers, and
if you think about all of thatlife experience that you've got
(29:39):
from those type of jobs, a lotof people don't have it.
Their parents are like you needto focus on school.
This is what's important andthat's what they did.
And so when they're coming intothe workplace now, you may get
super irritated that they'relooking at TikTok when they
shouldn't be, but that justliterally may be like a hey,
this is inappropriate workbehavior, and let me explain to
you why.
Or like cognitive reasoningskills, because they didn't
(30:02):
learn those on their feetearlier in life.
You may have to like push themforward, but it doesn't
necessarily mean that they'relazy or won't do it.
They just haven't had thatexposure.
That was really powerful to me.
And then the other one was thatpeople coming in don't have an
innate trust of leadershipanymore.
Like when we entered theworkplace it was like the
(30:24):
president, the CEO yes, sir,like you were the man, but they
grew up in a time where everyinappropriate leader was blasted
across the news and that's whatthey see.
So for them, you have to earntheir trust, whether you're
their leader or not, and so,like to me.
Those are the two.
There was so much greatinformation, but like that,
really, those two things reallystuck with me.
Matthew Berkshire (30:46):
Yeah, yeah, I love the Charles Duhigg the
atomic habits, and he wrotesomething before that much more
dense and boring but has some ofthe good points.
A new kind of diversity is onmy list.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (31:01):
Awesome.
So we are edging pretty closeto the TMSA Executive Summit, so
before I let you go, I wantedto talk to you about it, because
it is a newer event for TMSA.
We launched it back in 2022,but you've actually attended
both 2022 and 2023, and we'llsee you again next month, and so
(31:21):
if people are like on the fencethinking about whether they
should come or not, I would loveto know your experience and
what you found of value in thatand what are some of the things
you learned and why do you keepcoming back?
Matthew Berkshire (31:32):
Yeah, I am excited to get to advocate for
this because I feel I owe a bitof debt to TMSA and I'll be very
honest that before I went toTMSA, I was not a firm believer
(31:55):
in marketing.
In business school I gravitatedvery heavily to all the lean
six stuff where everything canbe quantified you're talking
about down to like a millionthof a percentage and you know,
down to seconds.
And so for me it was, you know,like like very old man ish,
(32:17):
like hard work and numbers.
You know these are, we believein these things, and if, if you
can't put you know those thingsto it, then it doesn't exist.
And so I was always a littleskeptical of marketing.
You know, I think I took, Ithink I had, intro to marketing
(32:37):
under my belt and I think thatwas the only marketing course
that I took in business schoolmaybe entrepreneurial marketing,
which is like guerrillamarketing and stuff and so I was
very skeptical of you knowwhere it fit in, and CJ Johnson
(32:58):
thought this would be a goodconference and I really went
prepared to be like, well, thatdoesn't make sense.
I was ready, I was ready torefute things and, oh my God, it
changed how I thought aboutmarketing.
It changed how I employedmarketing within my company.
(33:21):
You know, now my marketingdirector is involved with sales,
my marketing director, uh, isinvolved with recruitment, which
is is kind of changing the waythat.
You know, it's changed a lot ofthings about how we recruit,
how we onboard, how we train uh.
(33:43):
It's it's just, it's how weonboard, how we train uh.
It's it's just it's.
It's been like a watershedmoment where we've gotten a lot
of great things from that.
On the other side, what I havefound with with a lot of
conferences in the industry, orthat it's either hyper specific
hey, this is, these are peoplethat ship strawberries in
(34:03):
california it's, it's superhyper specific or it's really
gigantic, like like freightwaves, events and those.
Those can be a littleoverwhelming and I found at tmsa
is that it's it that it's.
(34:24):
The executive summit is asmaller group and it's a more
intimate setting and theconnections that I've made at
TMSA events are wonderful andit's a great place for me to go
and meet other CEOs and then say, hey, can I run stuff by you?
This is what I'm trying.
(34:44):
What numbers are you seeinghere?
What are you using?
Who are you using for this?
How did you get that done?
It's been great for that, butit's also just been really great
for kind of my marketingre-education, I might say, and
then looking at current trendsof just what's happening in a
(35:04):
field of marketing in generalthat I might not necessarily
know a lot about.
So that would be my plug for it.
It is my favorite conferencethat I go to every year.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (35:20):
Well, that means so much to us here at
TMSA, because it is somethingthat we really care about.
And I actually just hadsomebody ask me, like how do you
pick the content?
And like, well, we have it inOctober on purpose, because
that's when people are thinkingabout what's coming next and the
trends, and so I'm always happyto hear the value that it's
providing, and so I appreciatethat, and so I appreciate that.
(35:42):
Okay, one last question for youbefore I officially let you go
and then see you in October 10ththrough 11th in Hoboken at the
Executive Summit.
But this is the question I askeverybody who comes on the show
If you could go back in time andadvise a younger Matthew
anything and it could bepersonally or professionally
when would you go back to andwhat would you tell him?
(36:03):
Or?
Matthew Berkshir (36:04):
professionally .
When would you go back to andwhat would you tell them?
Oh, that's a wow, what aquestion that is, I think,
business wise.
I would.
(36:26):
I would go back to when I, whenI first came to Flowtrans, and
I think the things that I wouldtell myself would be to keep a
big open ear, go everywhere youcan, listen to everyone that has
something to say to you, butalso focus on culture.
(36:48):
Define your culture, definewhat's going to make you
different and then hire based onthat, do your strategic plan
based on that.
Make sure that everythingaligns with that.
I think that Flow Trans has beenwonderful and some of those
lessons you know they wouldn'tbe as important if you didn't
(37:09):
learn them the hard way, but Ithink there are things that we
could have done just massivelymore expediently if we didn't
take, if we didn't take yearswhere you know well we need this
skill and so it doesn't matterwhat this person's like and it
(37:36):
doesn't matter if you know theyare really not a fit for our
team.
And you know well we don'treally understand what our
team's like because we haven't,you know, tried to learn about
them.
You know we haven't tried to.
You tried to take a holisticapproach to our people.
And so, yeah, I would tellmyself focus on the culture,
focus on the people, care aboutthe people and let that really
(37:58):
be your guiding decision foreverything that you do.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (38:04):
Awesome.
I think that's really greatadvice and I do think it's one
that people take a while tolearn, so hopefully people are
listening, that are maybeearlier in their careers and
taking that to heart now.
So well, thank you so much forbeing on the show.
I feel like we covered so manytopics and so a lot of things to
think about as we walk out.
But I am excited to see younext month in Hoboken and thank
(38:28):
you so much for coming on theshow.
Matthew Berkshire (38:30):
Thank you so much for having me and thank you
so much for what you guys dowith TMSA.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (38:36):
Again, it's a game changer.
Thank you so much.
Have a good one.
Hello everybody, welcome to On the
Move, a show where we sharetransportation sales and
marketing success stories.
I'm Jennifer Karps-Romain,executive Director at the
Transportation Marketing andSales Association, which is a
trade nonprofit educating andconnecting marketing and sales
professionals in the space.
Today on the show, I haveMatthew Berkshire, who is CEO at
(00:24):
Flowtrans.
Welcome on the show.
I have Matthew Berkshire, whois CEO at Flowtrans.
Welcome to the show, matthew.
Matthew Berkshire (00:28):
Jennifer, thank you so much for having me.
I'm really excited to be heretoday.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (00:33):
I'm happy to have you here and I
love getting to like we've knowneach other for a couple years,
but these are always funopportunities for me to get to
know people better and shareyour expertise, your knowledge
and all that great fun stuff forour audience as well.
So you've been at Flowtrans formore than 11 years and you're
(00:53):
in that CEO seat now, but itlooks like you actually came
into the company more on thepersonnel side of things before
kind of rising into thatposition.
So can you tell us a little bitabout your journey both at
Flowtrans and in the industry?
Matthew Berkshire (01:06):
Yeah, yeah, I did not get to Flow Trans or
trucking in the traditional way.
I had met our owner.
We're owned by a gentlemannamed Charlie Johnson, CJ
Johnson.
He owns a few differententities in the ecosystem and he
had actually tried to recruitme when I was an undergrad.
(01:30):
We share a social fraternity,although we went to different
schools.
I was on the national board andI was speaking, and I think I
was a junior and undergrad atthe time and I don't think that
I had met him before.
Uh, maybe we had met in passingand I walked into the, the
hotel bar, after speaking and heoffered me a job in a very like
(01:54):
crowded, crowded bar, which wasboth, uh, pretty on brand for
CJ, but very like, like reallythrew me for a loop for like a
week, like I I still like feelit as discussing it.
And so I was doing, I was in newengland and I was doing
graduate school and I hadchanged my linkedin profile to
(02:19):
like looking to get back intothe market.
I quickly realized I was.
I was in academia and Irealized I don't want to teach.
I had worked through undergrad,I wanted to go back in the
market and within a few hours Ihad an email which turned into a
phone call, which turned into aplane ticket in my email.
(02:39):
I came out to Chicago and hesaid hey, I'll let you kind of
design a job that you thinkworks for you.
I'll pay you within reason, butkind of what you want to do and
how much you want to make, kindof offer.
(03:01):
I joined, I think, in 2000 ortwo years.
We had an opening and I becamethe executive vice president.
Then we had another opening.
I became the interim CEO forabout eight months and I've been
the full CEO ever, ever sincethen, and so a lot of that is I
(03:26):
can't claim credit for.
It's, you know, charlie havinga vision and Charlie being able
to believe in people, which Ithink is the best thing that you
can have in a relationshipbetween co-workers, is a belief
as a belief.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (03:43):
Yeah, I think that's really important,
and also finding the ability torise in the company that you're
at too.
I think a lot of times when wetalk about recruitment,
retention and all those things,sometimes people leave just
because they don't understandhow they can stay, and so
creating those internalopportunities are really
(04:04):
important.
So glad that you've been ableto find success along the way at
Flowtrans.
Matthew Berkshire (04:14):
Yeah, I love how you phrase that that people
leave because they don'tunderstand how they can stay.
Yeah, that's a great way to putit.
And you know again, havingbelief in people that you work
with, and having people that youwork with have belief in you.
And it's not always, you know,necessarily a vertical move.
Sometimes it's an internal move, where this is how we can grow
(04:36):
you, this is how we can give younew skills, this is how we can
give you new responsibilities.
You know kind of having a pulseon what motivates people and
what's keeping them excited andwhat you can do to kind of up
the ante.
There is something that I thinkwe forget about sometimes.
A lot of times, we think it'sjust you know well, this person
needs a raise, they need anaward, they need a promotion,
(05:00):
and sometimes it's about youknow, how can we give them the
internal skills to go and findthose things, rather than just
you know, seeing the promotionas the solution?
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (05:14):
Yeah, I definitely.
I like to say that I think oneof the most important things is
for people to understand theirpiece of the puzzle, and that I
like stuck with that for areally long time and then, as I
grew in my leadership journey, Ialso realized that they need to
not just understand their pieceof the puzzle, but also how it
connects into the puzzle,because sometimes we move so
(05:35):
fast and things are changing andmergers and acquisitions happen
and there's personnel changesand all of the chaos that we
exist in, and so we'll be like,okay, this is your job and this
is what you're doing, and thenyou kind of like scamper away.
But they're like, okay, but likewho am I supposed to work with
and where's the overlap andwho's?
Who am I?
Am I in charge of people?
And like we forget thoseelements.
(05:56):
Or like, if you're developingnew capabilities, what, what is?
What are they doing with them,or are they?
And so that's something in myown leadership journey that I
really process is like it's notjust explaining what their role
is, but how does that fit in theoverall landscape today and
where can they grow tomorrow?
I think that's really important.
Matthew Berkshire (06:15):
Yeah, I think that that's really well put For
anybody watching that's not intransportation.
Business in itself is chaoticand can be crazy.
Trucking and logistics is morechaotic and maybe more dynamic
is the word I want to use thanany business I've ever seen,
(06:36):
I've ever consulted on, I'veever been a part of, and it
changes so rapidly and thatrapid change becomes the new
normal very quickly, and so Ithink understanding our
subjective context this is whatI do, this is my part, but that
absolutely how that plays intothe overall objective context of
(06:59):
the business is key in helpingpeople not only understand their
place and where they're at, butwhere they could go and how
important they are to the, tothe overall business.
I think when people get how,how much they mean to the
company it it, it's a gamechanger.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (07:20):
For sure , and it is, is it?
It is a very dynamic and a bitchaotic industry and we are here
rounding out Q3, rolling intothe end of the year.
I'm curious what you think iscoming up for the holiday season
and then what we can start toexpect in 2025.
Matthew Berkshire (07:39):
It.
Uh, it's, yeah I, I Just areally softball question to
answer.
You know I think crazy is anoverused phrase I'm just coming
off using that to describetransportation but the
post-COVID market in freight hasbeen really, really nuts, has
(08:04):
been really, really nuts, andwhat I consistently see is that
I don't think anybody trulyunderstands it, and every report
that I read is like things aregetting back to normal, things
are gonna peak next month, nextquarter, things are going up.
And then the reports that I reada couple months later well, it
didn't happen in Q2, but Q3 isgetting back, and so I think,
(08:29):
blessedly after these last threeor four years, we are actually
returning to a sense of normalcyand the market trends this year
have looked pretty close to2019.
And they're trending in waysthat are much more predictable
and easier to read, which keepsmy blood pressure a little more
(08:51):
in check than it's been.
What I'm seeing right now isthat spot market's up a couple
percentage points.
Intermodal is up a little,across the border to Canada is
up.
Across the border to Mexico isrelatively flat.
Truckload rates are kind ofstaying flat, up a few like
(09:15):
margins on a percentage point,and so I really think that kind
of the market has recovered.
What we don't talk about a lotis that during COVID we made so.
So many people dramaticallyoverscaled because the economy
boomed, the freight marketboomed and you had government,
(09:37):
an influx of government capital,and so, all of a sudden, the
number of trucks went up, thenumber of chassis went up, the
number of facilities and crossstocks, it all really went
through the roof, whereas wewere looking at truck purchases
going up about 2,000 nationwidefor a year for
(09:58):
over a decade and then whenCOVID hit it went up like five
times that in that first year,and so our demand, or our
capacity, has really outstrippedour demand and I think now,
over this past year, we'rereturning to a point of
equilibrium.
I don't think it's going to bethe huge boom that we'd all love
(10:23):
to see, but I think predictablywe're going to probably go up
5% over the next month and itshould be a good holiday season,
and then we know we bottomedout in May and it's been a kind
of a continuous push back up theladder.
I think that's going tocontinue really nicely.
(10:44):
We're in a weird time becausewe have some socio-political
events.
We have an election coming up,there's a lot of stuff that can
kind of affect the market, andso whichever way our election
goes, I probably see a 5% to 10%increase on the high end.
(11:05):
But I'm at the point where I'mnot staying up at night worrying
, and so that's nice.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (11:15):
For sure , and you just mentioned a whole
lot of stuff that can impactthe market, which I think is
really important to think about.
Yes, the increased um, likeequipment and things that
happened over cobit.
Also, we are in election year,so everyone just kind of waiting
to see what happened and andwhat does that all look like?
Are there any other activitiesor trends that you're seeing
(11:39):
that's really affecting themarket right now?
Matthew Berkshire (11:50):
I think that this year will look a little bit
more like 2019 than the pasttwo years have, because there
was such a ramp up in gettingstuff over and getting stuff
built that warehouses have beenfull for the last few years and
now, for the first time in a fewyears other than, you know,
(12:11):
stuff that's that's hyperseasonal we're seeing pretty
normal warehousing levels thatthere's space, we've had a lot
of new stuff built and so Ithink that warehousing will will
have an effect on on the market, uh, because now you will have
people needing to bring in stuffover this next month to gear up
(12:34):
and get get stores and andshelf stock for the holiday
season.
Uh, I think I, like everybodyelse in the world right now, is
watching the the Fed prettycarefully as a predictor, and it
seems like once a week I hearthat, like you know, janet
Yellen could go live withinminutes and rates are coming
(12:55):
down and people are gearing upand we see that that's having an
effect on the transportationmarket, but the stock market as
a whole, and we know that whenthat does happen, that'll affect
that market, which will, inturn, uh affect our market, and
I I think that I think with withgood basic waterfall theory.
(13:16):
Uh, we know that the biggestcarriers in the industry are are
on the forefront of that waveand they're already starting to
see some positive returns.
So I think those are the bigthings I think that are
affecting the external market.
I think the internal market isvery different based on region.
(13:40):
One of the trends that I'mseeing internally at a lot of
companies not just freight, butespecially freight is that there
was a dramatic overscalingduring COVID, because you had
all this influx of capital andso you had all these CEOs that
you know.
All of a sudden.
(14:00):
You know, my five-year plan wasto get three more trucks at a
smaller company.
Well, I get five trucks rightnow or or whatever, and so
people really hit the hit thescale button and, as as the
market's cooled, uh, we've seensome people leave the market,
and so that's created issues atsome companies.
(14:22):
It's also created opportunities.
If you were a company that wasconservative during this and
didn't really slam theaccelerator to the floor, now
there are lots of picks outthere from everybody, from sales
, c-suite level, entry level,broker workers.
(14:42):
There's a lot of peopleavailable that are skilled on
the market right now.
Jennifer Karpus-Roma (14:50):
Absolutely .
I think one of the other biggertrends that I'm seeing that
people are talking about is apush towards sustainability, and
I know at Flowtrans it's a partof its mission to partner with
environmentally ethicalcompanies.
You've partnered with theDepartment of Transportation
SmartWeave program, you usepaperless billing, you don't use
(15:11):
any single use plastic withinyour office and you have a
completely new fleet that is atthe head of the market in terms
of gas mileage.
I found this all on yourwebsite.
It's all very informative, butI thought it was really cool
because I think when we talkabout sustainability, people
might think about that in justone way, and so I really like
that.
You guys are taking a holisticapproach to that and I'm curious
(15:32):
like why is that a corecompetency at Flowtrans and how
did you kind of pick where tostart and then keep going?
Matthew Berkshire (15:41):
I wish that I could come and say you know,
hey, this is, this is like my,my moral crusade, and that you
know I'm a huge advocate forthis.
I think for us it made a lot ofsense.
Business wise, we're located inChicago.
If you read the Forbes report,there's a report that comes out
(16:03):
every year on kind ofenvironmental efficacy and
Chicago.
I was super surprised because Iwould think that it would be
like California, oregon, newMexico, places like that that
would be leading the push.
And Chicago ranks at the topfor, like green buildings, the
number of people that believethat, like, businesses should
(16:25):
have an environmental plan, thenumber of politicians that
believe that, you know,environmental efficacy should be
a core competency of businesses.
And so we looked at it and wefelt that, hey, you know, this
is really something that ourcity is pushing for.
And then, as the workforce isgenerationally shifting, one of
(16:49):
the things that has become veryobvious is that, probably with
my generation and with the nextgeneration, you have people that
are not coming into theworkforce thinking that, hey,
I'm going to come to this onecompany and I'm gonna stay here
forever and I'm gonna move upand I'm gonna retire here
(17:10):
someday.
You have people that are like,hey, I maybe I'll be here for a
couple years, maybe I'll be herefor a couple months, and you
have people that are looking fora bigger reason to come into
work.
Then, oh, I, you know, I madethe company money, I made the
owner money, I made theshareholders money and when we
(17:32):
thought about it, I, you knowthe I felt like the the great.
What's a better cause than kindof saving the planet?
Uh, you know, I've alwaysthought that the trucking and
transportation I I think it'sthe greatest business in the US.
I think it's criminal that it'snot talked about and that truck
(17:52):
drivers aren't talked about asheroes.
But since the frontier economy,and even before that, even in
the revolutionary economy,almost everything that people
owned has been brought there,whether it's on a ship, a wagon.
You know, over the last hundredyears it's really been on
(18:13):
trucks and that's never beenmore true than it is today.
And you know, amazon's doingsome crazy stuff in Chicago you
can get stuff delivered by likea drone.
It's pretty cutting edge andpretty crazy.
But when, when I first applied,one of the things that CJ
Johnson said was that until theyreally like, until Star Trek
(18:36):
gets in the picture and they canteleport stuff.
Somebody is gonna have to bringthat, that to you, whether it's
a shirt, your, your meal, youryour pens, a desk, a desk
whatever that all comes.
That all comes on trucks.
Sometimes it comes severaltimes on trucks.
Sometimes the ingredients andthe materials to make something
(18:58):
are brought on one truck, talkother materials on another, that
finished products coming on onetruck.
I mean trucks are really thebackbone of the economy and in
the US, with us beingcapitalists, the economy is the
backbone of the entire country,and so I think that just
(19:18):
trucking plays such a wonderfulrole.
It's natural to believe thatpeople are going to want a green
link in their supply chain.
It's natural to see that inChicago we have a lot of
businesses whether they'regovernment, for-profit,
not-for-profit, private andpublic that you know see
(19:40):
themselves as having a duty tothe world and a duty to the
environment.
And when I looked out on thelandscape, I didn't see a lot of
other carriers, a lot of otherplaces providing options for
people to move stuff in a waythat they'd be proud of.
(20:01):
A lot of people choose whatthey're purchasing based on you
know how it's made.
Is this made sustainably?
Is it sustainable fabric.
You know, seeing huge, hugemovements like stuff going from
like Regular fur to syntheticfur or goose down to synthetic
down.
People are very concerned andthey're showing that with their
(20:23):
wallet about sustainability,sustainability.
So it made a lot of naturalsense to us that people would
see the supply chain and howsomething got from, you know, a
forest to a factory, a factoryto a manufacturer, manufacturer
to a store.
That people would look at thatin the the same way that they're
looking at you know how is this?
(20:44):
sourced and all that other stuff, and so it's been good.
We believe in it, we're able toeducate our employees on it.
Part of orientation is talkingabout, you know, that green
factor and how can we can kindof differentiate ourselves from
the rest of the market and it'sbeen attractive to people.
(21:06):
You know, we, we have it'scommon in our interview process
that somebody will say well, youknow, I I thought I was going
to get out of this industry andthen I saw that.
Or, you know, I didn't thinkI'd ever come into this industry
, but you know.
But I'm seeing it not so muchas I'm poofing three pallets
(21:28):
from here to Tucson, I'm seeingit as, hey, I'm making the world
a little bit better, oneshipment at a time.
So it's been a nice thing forus to get into, although I
didn't start out, as you know, ahuge believer.
I'm a crusader for it now.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (21:49):
I think all that is really important.
I like to think that ifeverybody did a little bit of
something like so, muchimprovement can be made.
And I also think you have tostart small before you can grow
back.
So, like now, you guys have allof these different initiatives,
but it's not like you, on dayone, are able to push all of
that out.
And I also really liked whenyou're talking about the
(22:10):
conversations during interviews,because that is a huge piece of
what I'm seeing for thegenerations coming into the
workplace is that they do wantto align with companies and work
for companies that believe insomething and that it aligns to
like their core values in a waythat we may not have evaluated
the same way.
(22:30):
So I think that's incrediblyimportant when we're thinking
about stuff like that and bothwe should do it.
But also from a sales andmarketing perspective, how are
you publicizing that Like?
I intentionally read every pieceof what was on your website
because I was able to find thatin 30 seconds, because from a
marketing standpoint, that'samazing, because it's easy to
(22:54):
find.
You guys talk about it.
You talk about that it's a corecompetency and why it's
important to your business.
So, if I was whether I waswanting to partner with you on a
business standpoint or work foryou.
I can see what your values are,what you're actually doing.
You're not just saying, hey, wecare about sustainability here,
we're listing out how we'redoing that, from our trucks to
our office place, and so I justthought that was really powerful
(23:15):
, and so I think those arethings to think about too, that
it's not just doing them, butalso then, how are you promoting
them, how are you showing themso that people can learn about
what you're doing?
That's nice of you to say Thankyou, of course.
(23:36):
So I, of course, learned allabout the sustainability stuff,
but I was also looking at yourLinkedIn to hear, to see about
your history, and one of thethings that really stood out to
me about you yourself is thatyou're a pretty avid reader, and
you're highlighting a ton ofbooks on LinkedIn and what they
meant to you as a reader, whichis also really helpful for
everybody else who's like superbusy all the time and you're
like, no, thank you.
I do need to learn that lesson.
I will read that book thatMatthew told me too.
But if you had to pick one bookthis year that really left an
(23:58):
impact on you.
What would it be?
Matthew Berkshire (24:03):
So it's, I I'll give you a really obvious
one, which is almost always thebook I say Uh, and then I'll,
I'll give you a newer one.
I think the obvious one issomething that, uh, my, my mom
had me read when I wasgraduating in high school and
(24:26):
for years I, I, I was like thisis the stupidest book I've ever
read.
This is, this is like a creepybook, like I don't like this at
all.
And then I went to uh, I thinkit was a, it was one of your
guys meetings and the questioncame up of like what's, what's
the best thing you've read?
And I, you know one personstarted it off and then the next
(24:49):
person said, well, it's thisbook.
And I kind of rolled my eyes.
And then the next, like five orsix people said the same book.
And so I went back and I read itand you know that was that was
four or five years ago and I'veread that book once or twice
again every single year sincethen.
And that's that's.
(25:10):
That's Dale Carnegie's how toWin Friends and Influence People
, it's.
I really think that you couldprobably say that the the rest
of like business books that comeout are kind of the footnotes
to that of just how to treatpeople and how to make people
feel good and how to, how to begenuinely interested.
(25:32):
Uh, and people that are kind ofas times change, you know those
skills are and in some casesgoing by the wayside for the
general masses.
But I find that people that arereally successful and people
that kind of have magnetism thatdraw you in and make you want
to be around them, and want towork with you.
(25:55):
They really really have thoseskills and they're genuinely
interested.
Something that I read reallyrecently that I was a little
skeptical of because it was by astatistician who was also a
competitive poker player andgambler, and it's an entire book
(26:17):
written about when to take bigrisks and when to hold off on
taking big risks.
Big risks and when to hold offon taking big risks.
Uh, and as a consumer and areal devourer of like
information, I find that often Iam conservative and a little
slow in my decision making, uh,and so risk can sometimes be a
(26:40):
really scary proposition for me.
You know, I want to getbusiness, the business running
to where it's doing good in andout.
It might not be peaking all thetime, but we're steady, and so
taking those risks where there'sa high reward but also the
potential of a high risk can bescary, and this book really
(27:05):
changed the way of how I lookfor market indicators, but it
also changed a lot of myfeelings around taking risks.
Have you read anything goodrecently?
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (27:31):
So I'm not like I have, but I am
currently in like a long streamof murder mystery audio books.
Like just I recently likeredownloaded the Libby app where
you can like do all the audiobooks from the library and I'm
just like knocking them out.
And it to the point where I'mlike I feel like I need to stop,
because my dreams are startingto get kind of weird because
it's just like one murder afterthe other.
So cause I'll go in like shiftswhere I'm like, okay, I need to
(27:52):
like, not need to, but I liketo read the business books, be
really, really thoughtful, butthen sometimes I just need a
brain break so I go into theselike deep dives and things,
other things that have no valuebesides their demons.
Yeah, yeah.
So so I've been into that lately, but I was actually thinking
(28:12):
the other day like I shouldprobably toss in one of the
other things I know.
I started like the Atomic Habitbook that everybody talks about
too, because that's somethinglike I'm really really
self-motivated on many things,but the things that I'm not like
, how do I then push myselfforward there?
So that would be like probablymy personal goal to get that one
(28:35):
done because I've heard suchgreat things about it.
One of my favorites that I'veread over the past couple years
is called a new kind ofdiversity, and it talks kind of
about what we were talking about, about just like how different
generations are different andwhat they care about.
And one of the most the thingthat stuck with me is thinking
(28:55):
about kids coming out of collegetoday may have never had
another job before, like all ofthe life skills that you learned
like.
I worked at a donut shop foryears in high school and it was.
There was a lot of interestingcharacters that came in there.
I learned how to deal with likedifferent ethnicities,
different like, and it was likefour in the morning when I am
(29:19):
not my best self and justlearning how to still have great
customer support.
I worked by myself or withother people.
I also then had developedrelationships with people who
were older than me, that weren'tmy parents or my teachers, and
if you think about all of thatlife experience that you've got
(29:39):
from those type of jobs, a lotof people don't have it.
Their parents are like you needto focus on school.
This is what's important andthat's what they did.
And so when they're coming intothe workplace now, you may get
super irritated that they'relooking at TikTok when they
shouldn't be, but that justliterally may be like a hey,
this is inappropriate workbehavior, and let me explain to
you why.
Or like cognitive reasoningskills, because they didn't
(30:02):
learn those on their feetearlier in life.
You may have to like push themforward, but it doesn't
necessarily mean that they'relazy or won't do it.
They just haven't had thatexposure.
That was really powerful to me.
And then the other one was thatpeople coming in don't have an
innate trust of leadershipanymore.
Like when we entered theworkplace it was like the
(30:24):
president, the CEO yes, sir,like you were the man, but they
grew up in a time where everyinappropriate leader was blasted
across the news and that's whatthey see.
So for them, you have to earntheir trust, whether you're
their leader or not, and so,like to me.
Those are the two.
There was so much greatinformation, but like that,
really, those two things reallystuck with me.
Matthew Berkshire (30:46):
Yeah, yeah, I love the Charles Duhigg the
atomic habits, and he wrotesomething before that much more
dense and boring but has some ofthe good points.
A new kind of diversity is onmy list.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (31:01):
Awesome.
So we are edging pretty closeto the TMSA Executive Summit, so
before I let you go, I wantedto talk to you about it, because
it is a newer event for TMSA.
We launched it back in 2022,but you've actually attended
both 2022 and 2023, and we'llsee you again next month, and so
(31:21):
if people are like on the fencethinking about whether they
should come or not, I would loveto know your experience and
what you found of value in thatand what are some of the things
you learned and why do you keepcoming back?
Matthew Berkshire (31:32):
Yeah, I am excited to get to advocate for
this because I feel I owe a bitof debt to TMSA and I'll be very
honest that before I went toTMSA, I was not a firm believer
(31:55):
in marketing.
In business school I gravitatedvery heavily to all the lean
six stuff where everything canbe quantified you're talking
about down to like a millionthof a percentage and you know,
down to seconds.
And so for me it was, you know,like like very old man ish,
(32:17):
like hard work and numbers.
You know these are, we believein these things, and if, if you
can't put you know those thingsto it, then it doesn't exist.
And so I was always a littleskeptical of marketing.
You know, I think I took, Ithink I had, intro to marketing
(32:37):
under my belt and I think thatwas the only marketing course
that I took in business schoolmaybe entrepreneurial marketing,
which is like guerrillamarketing and stuff and so I was
very skeptical of you knowwhere it fit in, and CJ Johnson
(32:58):
thought this would be a goodconference and I really went
prepared to be like, well, thatdoesn't make sense.
I was ready, I was ready torefute things and, oh my God, it
changed how I thought aboutmarketing.
It changed how I employedmarketing within my company.
(33:21):
You know, now my marketingdirector is involved with sales,
my marketing director, uh, isinvolved with recruitment, which
is is kind of changing the waythat.
You know, it's changed a lot ofthings about how we recruit,
how we onboard, how we train uh.
(33:43):
It's it's just, it's how weonboard, how we train uh.
It's it's just it's.
It's been like a watershedmoment where we've gotten a lot
of great things from that.
On the other side, what I havefound with with a lot of
conferences in the industry, orthat it's either hyper specific
hey, this is, these are peoplethat ship strawberries in
(34:03):
california it's, it's superhyper specific or it's really
gigantic, like like freightwaves, events and those.
Those can be a littleoverwhelming and I found at tmsa
is that it's it that it's.
(34:24):
The executive summit is asmaller group and it's a more
intimate setting and theconnections that I've made at
TMSA events are wonderful andit's a great place for me to go
and meet other CEOs and then say, hey, can I run stuff by you?
This is what I'm trying.
(34:44):
What numbers are you seeinghere?
What are you using?
Who are you using for this?
How did you get that done?
It's been great for that, butit's also just been really great
for kind of my marketingre-education, I might say, and
then looking at current trendsof just what's happening in a
(35:04):
field of marketing in generalthat I might not necessarily
know a lot about.
So that would be my plug for it.
It is my favorite conferencethat I go to every year.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (35:20):
Well, that means so much to us here at
TMSA, because it is somethingthat we really care about.
And I actually just hadsomebody ask me, like how do you
pick the content?
And like, well, we have it inOctober on purpose, because
that's when people are thinkingabout what's coming next and the
trends, and so I'm always happyto hear the value that it's
providing, and so I appreciatethat, and so I appreciate that.
(35:42):
Okay, one last question for youbefore I officially let you go
and then see you in October 10ththrough 11th in Hoboken at the
Executive Summit.
But this is the question I askeverybody who comes on the show
If you could go back in time andadvise a younger Matthew
anything and it could bepersonally or professionally
when would you go back to andwhat would you tell him?
(36:03):
Or?
Matthew Berkshir (36:04):
professionally .
When would you go back to andwhat would you tell them?
Oh, that's a wow, what aquestion that is, I think,
business wise.
I would.
(36:26):
I would go back to when I, whenI first came to Flowtrans, and
I think the things that I wouldtell myself would be to keep a
big open ear, go everywhere youcan, listen to everyone that has
something to say to you, butalso focus on culture.
(36:48):
Define your culture, definewhat's going to make you
different and then hire based onthat, do your strategic plan
based on that.
Make sure that everythingaligns with that.
I think that Flow Trans has beenwonderful and some of those
lessons you know they wouldn'tbe as important if you didn't
(37:09):
learn them the hard way, but Ithink there are things that we
could have done just massivelymore expediently if we didn't
take, if we didn't take yearswhere you know well we need this
skill and so it doesn't matterwhat this person's like and it
(37:36):
doesn't matter if you know theyare really not a fit for our
team.
And you know well we don'treally understand what our
team's like because we haven't,you know, tried to learn about
them.
You know we haven't tried to.
You tried to take a holisticapproach to our people.
And so, yeah, I would tellmyself focus on the culture,
focus on the people, care aboutthe people and let that really
(37:58):
be your guiding decision foreverything that you do.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (38:04):
Awesome.
I think that's really greatadvice and I do think it's one
that people take a while tolearn, so hopefully people are
listening, that are maybeearlier in their careers and
taking that to heart now.
So well, thank you so much forbeing on the show.
I feel like we covered so manytopics and so a lot of things to
think about as we walk out.
But I am excited to see younext month in Hoboken and thank
(38:28):
you so much for coming on theshow.
Matthew Berkshire (38:30):
Thank you so much for having me and thank you
so much for what you guys dowith TMSA.
Jennifer Karpus-Romain (38:36):
Again, it's a game changer.
Thank you so much.
Have a good one.
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