April 22, 2025 • 26 mins
Sam Mitchell shares his journey of being diagnosed with autism at age four and transforming his experiences into a platform for advocacy through podcasting and motivational speaking. Sam turned his pain into purpose by giving back and helping others.
• Diagnosed with classic autism symptoms including repetitive behaviors, restricted interests, and sensory sensitivities
• Found understanding at age six through a book that explained his autism, helping him make sense of social exclusion
• Struggled with peer relationships throughout school, experiencing exclusion rather than direct bullying
• Made breakthrough at sixteen when he stopped people-pleasing and found acceptance among fellow "outcasts"
• Turned his special interest in professional wrestling into podcast opportunities, interviewing wrestling stars
• Created "Autism Rocks and Rolls" podcast to amplify autistic voices and experiences
• Developed into a motivational speaker speaking on big stages.
You can connect with Sam through his website at AutismRocksAndRolls.com where there's a contact information page.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode of On
the Spectrum with Sonia podcast, where we discuss autism
spectrum, mental healthchallenges and anybody who's
overcome any adversity.
That will leave our audiencefeeling inspired, hopeful,
connected and filled with loveand support, especially in a
(00:26):
world that tries to disconnectus on a daily.
As many of you may know by now,april is International Autism
Awareness and Acceptance Month,and what many people don't think
about is what it is like to bediagnosed on the autism spectrum
(00:48):
, what it's like to have a kid,perhaps, who may be on the
autism spectrum, because a lotof people, when they're young
and carefree, right Like theydon't.
They're not thinking about oh,you know, do I have to be?
You know, am I different fromeveryone else?
Or, you know, if I have afamily, will my kid be different
(01:11):
from everyone else?
Everybody has their ownexpectations of life and what it
needs to look like, but justimagine being a child and you
know feeling different, havingparents be concerned about you
because they noticed somethingwas different about you that was
different from other peers ofthat kid's age.
(01:34):
Today, to discuss experiences ofbeing on the autism spectrum,
we have Sam Mitchell, who wasdiagnosed at age four.
He has a podcast, autism Rocksand Rolls, and he's worked with
nonprofit organizations to helpgive back to families of kids on
(01:57):
the autism spectrum.
He has used his diagnosis alsoas a way to become a
motivational speaker for many,many different audiences.
He's spoken in front ofbusiness leaders.
He's spoken in front of variousdifferent audiences to engage
(02:19):
in different perspectives.
He's also had very prominentpeople on his own podcast
because of just how inspiringSam is.
So please, without further ado,sam, please, thank you.
Thank you so much for beinghere today and welcome to the
show.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well, thank you for having me.
It's good to be here, Bob.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Love this, all right.
So, sam, tell us a little bitnow.
You said you had been diagnosedwhen you were four.
Well, sam, tell us a little bitnow.
You said you had been diagnosedwhen you were four.
Why don't you give us a littlebit of a perspective of what was
going on at four years old thatled your parents to get?
That led us, your parents, tobe like OK, let's go get him
evaluated, let's see what'sgoing on here.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
As far as I know, just showing the classic
textbook symptoms.
I had repetitive behaviors.
I did restricted interest andwas mainly professional
wrestling and I wouldn't stoptalking about it for the life of
me.
But those were some of thebehaviors I showed.
I think also too, I would havemeltdowns if something was too
loud at the time span.
Now loud noises don't bother meas much as they once upon a
(03:20):
time did so what kind of loudwould do you remember like
standing out to you?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
that would be really bothersome.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Thunder.
I think thunder and lightningwas one of them.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Right, those are loud Sure, and so thunder lightning.
What else do you remember?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
That's all I can remember.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Okay, so you got diagnosed at four.
You said your parents took youto a school psychologist,
correct?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Well, I think the parents.
Well, my mother taught at thesame school I did and also had
suspicious I was on the autismspectrum.
So what they did, from what Iunderstand, is they got a school
psychologist to diagnose me.
The school psychologist didtest on me, put me, observed me
(04:13):
in the classroom, andunfortunately I cannot remember
those tests, what they were.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
And when did you start realizing then that you
were on the spectrum?
Because at four I can onlyimagine that must have been a
difficult age to really kind ofunderstand.
Wait a minute, I'm on theautism spectrum.
So when did it kind of hit foryou that, okay, I'm on the
autism spectrum?
And how did it make you feelwhen you finally understood what
it meant to be on the spectrum?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Because it was at six years old and I pretty much
understood it through a book.
I was read a book calledUnderstanding Sam, and that was
when my life made much moresense, because I knew why I was
getting excluded.
I knew why no one else wastalking about professional
wrestling.
I think there was a legitreason why I was getting
excluded.
I knew why no one else wastalking about professional
wrestling.
I think there was a legitreason why I'm doing this.
(05:08):
I'm not trying to use autism asan excuse.
It's just that there's part ofautism, part of autism, parts of
autism that is going to happen.
We're going to have meltdownssome days as a young child and
then we're going to haverestriction inches.
That's how our brain is wired.
(05:29):
We can't help that.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
And what was it like for you then when you finally
understood that you're on thespectrum?
You read this book, you know.
Then you started making senseof everything in your life book,
you know.
Then you started making senseof everything in your life.
How do you feel like itimpacted you then when you went
and were around your peers whenyou were in school.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
It pretty much affected me because I didn't
like school when it came to thestudents because of how I would
interact.
It just didn't make sense tothem.
I wasn't bullied, I was atpoints.
I was mainly excluded and sadlyyou can't send a kid to the
office for exclusion becausethey didn't know how to take me.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
How did people used to react to you when you would
go and talk to them or try to bearound them Like how did people
respond?
Did anybody ever kind of giveyou any blowback, any kind of
like get away from us kind ofthing?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
it was get away from us mainly.
I got big eyes once, I think itwas in eighth grade.
The same year my mother was ateacher.
I said something that I thoughtfit.
I didn't see this, but as Iturned my back she looked at her
friend and she gave her bigeyes, like the bug eyes, like
what the heck was that all about?
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Hmm, so were you able to make any friends in school
growing up?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Not growing up.
When I grew up, let's put itthat way At the age of 16 16 I
decided that I was going to stoppeople pleasing if you didn't
like me.
The door was right there.
Okay, and that worked out sowell because at 16 years old, I
finally made some friends.
That wasn't the friend I hadsince kindergarten how did you
(07:23):
get into then?
now, like you're themotivational speaking and um
starting your podcast, you knowhow did you take what you have
and you know, use it to giveback the way I give back is I
(07:46):
try to help other people whohave been in my shoes because I
don't want anyone to go throughwhat I went through.
It can be really torturous onthe brain what is the one thing?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
you're afraid of people going through that?
You went through that.
You really just want to protectpeople from at all costs, if
you can they want to socialize,but just don't know how to.
Or they are trying to makefriends but they see, oh, it's
going down the pothole andthat's one of the biggest
challenges of being on theautism spectrum is somebody
(08:21):
who's on the spectrum herself.
I get it in that.
You know it is very difficultto make friends when you're on
the autism spectrum, and it'svery difficult to keep friends
too, and it's hard to be aroundpeople a lot of times too for
long periods of time.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
You know it really is .
It is really hard to deal withpeople.
It can be exhausting becauseit's an overlap of how to deal
with these social cues thatpeople do and people don't
understand.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
that is so exhausting all day, right, being in crowds
that can also get overwhelming,even though, don't get me wrong
, I'll still do things socially.
(09:15):
Like you know, I'll go toconferences, we'll go to
concerts every now and again,right, you do those things Right
.
I run races.
I'm very much a big runner, soI run races, but like it's
different to you know, but it's.
It's different, I guess, whenyou have an activity versus like
just social, when you're justkind of forced to be, you know,
on on cue in some ways, right,and you don't have like a script
(09:38):
or anything in front of you,and just when you're around
people for periods, long, long,long periods of time, it's like,
okay, well, what do you talkabout after a while?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Right, Right, yeah.
After a while it's like oh,this is so social awkwardness,
it's so uncomfortable.
I don't know what else to doother than just leave and be
disrespectful, which issomething I don't want to do.
I mean, as odd as it is, it isdisrespectful to just be like
bye-bye and walk out.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Did you ever feel drained when you were in school?
Because you were around peopleall day.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Oh yeah, probably I would say, senior year, when I
was about to graduate, is when.
That's why, after I would eatlunch, I would literally sit in
a what would you say, what wasit called?
Kind of by a wall toward thebathroom.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Wasn't in the bathroom, trust me, the bathroom
smelled there, but it wastoward the bathroom and I would
literally sit there and be on myphone to get away from people
and so the friends that youended up making when you were 16
, how did you, how are you ableto kind of crack that code from
(10:54):
having, from not being able tosocialize well when you were
younger to then younger than 16,to then turning 16 and being
able to make some friends?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Well, I came to the conclusion that if this change
didn't work, I would have saidokay, and I probably would have
been mad at a lot of people, butI would still have people on my
back because I still had twopeople at the time span versus
zero.
And I met some people wherethey've had zero.
(11:26):
They don't know what it's liketo have a friend.
Well, I'll be the guy to showthem that.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
So how did you make friends then?
How were you able to connect tothose two people and what
worked for you?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
What really worked for me was I think there's a lot
of people out there who are noton the spectrum but are just
outcasts to the world.
I fit in with the outcasts andthe world more than the poster
boys for success, because theydon't judge, they didn't care if
(12:05):
your social skills sucked theydidn't care if your social
skills sucked.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So when you, just when you were talking about
outcasts, what particularly areyou like?
Describing what traits like,what are things that made them
outcasts?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
well, I hate to use this term, but there's no other
way to describe it emos peoplewho are just different from the
high school jock to use thisterm, but there's no other way
to describe it emos people whoare just different from the high
school jock and you felt likethose people were a lot more
compassionate to you becausethey could understand that
correct.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
You know what you went through.
You know that is one thing.
I was an outcast.
That's why, like my book calledit's called dropped in a maze
my life on the spectrum fromoutcast to outstanding.
I was one of those outcastpeople with no friends.
So it's very interesting we'rehaving this conversation,
because I was one of those whodidn't know what it was like to
have a friend growing up, reallyso until unless it was like
(13:06):
family friends.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
You know what I mean, like parent involvement or
something you know, but you knowwhat I mean right, I was lucky
to have that in the family andthen, luckily, I was having to
make it, but that was before thejudgment started.
Because, let's be honest, whenyou're in kindergarten you don't
care, you're happy about theworld and you're just like oh
person, friends.
But then when you get older youstart seeing these social cues.
(13:29):
So I'm lucky to make to a madeone before the people identities
started to get revealed whatgrade were you in when you
noticed more identities startedto get revealed?
Sophomore year.
That was when I made friends.
That's when I saw people.
(13:50):
Actually, there are some outthere who don't mind being
around you.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Mm-hmm.
So what was it like for youthen, when you finally were able
to make friends?
How did that feel for you to beable to crack that code a
little bit?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
um, it felt pretty good.
It felt pretty good that peopleunderstood what I was worth of,
and it also felt good tounderstand what other people are
worth of.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And I finally found a group which, when at five years
old, it was unimaginable anddid your interest in wrestling
still remain or did it kind ofstart to change over?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
oh, it still is.
I'm still interested in it.
I'm'm going to try to watchWrestleMania next weekend, but I
got a friend who's interestedin wrestling.
That's half the time is ourconversations.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Have you ever taken a class before in like grappling
and mixed MMA?
Have you ever done any of those?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
No, it's not really wrestling.
Wrestling it's more of theprofessional wrestling.
Yeah, I tried once with ourschool, but the wrestling team
faded out.
I think it came to theconclusion we couldn't afford it
.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Oh, okay, gotcha, and did you have a favorite
wrestler?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Still have a favorite wrestler.
I got to meet him, mick Foley.
I had the privilege of meetinghim I think I was on another
wrestling podcast and theyhelped me make a boyhood dream
come true.
But I met several others.
I've had Jake the Snake on theshow, I've had Kane on the show,
I've had Buff Bagwell on theshow, I've had Victoria on the
show, I've had Al Snow on theshow and I've also had RVD on
(15:41):
the show.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Oh, wow.
So you had a whole lot ofpeople from there on your show.
Yep, I have.
That's so great.
How did you?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
come across that opportunity to meet them.
Well, it depends on what you'retalking about.
Half of them was so.
Al Snow there's differentstories.
In particular, al Snow wasliterally through a wrestling
event in Bloomington.
There was a local wrestlingevent.
He was going to be a guest.
Rvd was just a simple Facebookmessenger.
Kane was literally asking hisscheduling people.
(16:16):
I had to do a little bit ofphone calls on that one, but
then ones that, like Buff,bagwell and Victoria, I will go
to a wrestling convention calledthe Squared Circle Expo.
They're going to be actually intown in a couple of weeks.
So wrestling convention, andwhat I've done is I literally
asked those two to be on theshow and they agreed.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Oh, that's awesome.
Good for you.
So tell us a little bit moreabout your show.
You have a podcast Autismpodcast, autism roles.
When did that start?
Um, what motivated you to startthat?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
well, it started after I joined my high school's
media clone.
I fell, loved it so much in2016 no, I'm sorry, 2018 that's
why I started to go to some ofour school's podcasts called
thundercast.
But then I loved it so much Istarted deciding not wait till
college to expand my mediaskills and start my own podcast.
And that was when Autism, rocksand Rolls was born.
But it grew really quicklybecause 20 turned to 40, 40
(17:13):
turned to 100, 100 turned to 200.
A couple of people who helpedme out decided to enhance my um,
enhance my thank you, enhancemy podcast by having a
(17:35):
non-profit, having a board doingevents and any answers.
Where I'm from, I also domotivational speaking services,
but that was through Oklahoma.
That was my first big speakinggig and then everything else was
through the nonprofit.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Okay, and so you fell in love with podcasting.
When your high school had theirpodcast and you fell in love
with that idea.
You made one into your own.
You have people help you alongthe way to build it up.
Um, do you uh, do any live uhshows for your podcast?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
well, not until recently I had I started.
I started this new seriescalled the autism rocks worlds
podcast hijack series.
That's where guests come on theshow.
They literally hijack the showby telling their story and what
having autism means to them orwhat services they offer.
Okay, it was an idea, because Irealized I needed more content.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
That and that's where the idea came from okay and um,
so it sounds like you reallydid something, remarkable,
though you know it's like youreally used your voice to give
back through your podcasting.
Now I kind of want to ask too,what about the motivational
speaking?
How did you get more into doingthat?
(18:55):
Because you've spoken in frontof impressive audiences such as,
like, business leaders, such asall sorts of different, various
kinds of people from allvarious kinds of backgrounds.
So I want to know, like, howdid you get into that?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
You repeat the question.
My headphones died on me and itswitched on technology.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Oh, ok, no, no worries.
I wanted to know, like, how didyou like switched into, get
into motivational speaking?
How did you switch and get intomotivational speaking?
Because you've spoken in frontof very impressive audiences and
all the diverse audiences,you've spoken in front of
leaders before.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I wanted to know how did you get into that aspect?
The way I got into that aspectwas I literally got invited to
the speaking game and I sawthere was success down the path.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
So I was like, oh okay, there's actually some hope
in here and so how do you enjoyit though being, you know,
public speaking?
How are you enjoying you knowbeing on speaking?
How are you enjoying you knowbeing on stages, speaking on
stages?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
I enjoy it pretty good.
I think there's no nervousness.
I just get a little nervouswith the time because I'm afraid
I'm not going to get all myinformation in.
But it's something I signed upfor.
Not much I can really do aboutit.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
What topics do you tend to discuss when you are
speaking?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Well, I tend to speak on autism.
Sometimes it depends on whatthe conference is.
One time I spoke about my story, because that's what they
wanted.
One was about podcasting andwhat it means to me.
One was about technology andhow it can help those with
autism.
I have my own views on it, butI had to focus on the positive
(20:49):
side.
One was a work conference onwhy you should hire people with
autism.
Actually, not one, a couple ofthose were.
But then I've also done vendorsfor shows.
I was a vendor once upon a timefor a resource fair up in
Huntingburg, indiana.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Okay, that sounds really, I mean.
So that's very impressive.
It seems like you really are.
You've used you know, yourdiagnosis of being on the
spectrum to really give back, toget to give a voice to others,
to speak for others who may notbe able to speak up at at the
time.
You know there are things thatyou are doing.
(21:24):
That's you know.
You're putting remarkable workinto the world and I want to
just say thank you for all youare doing for those in the
community and thank you forpromoting the awareness and for
spreading your knowledge and foradvocating for inclusion.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Not a problem.
I appreciate it for inclusion,not a problem I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
What is one piece of inspiration you want to leave
the audience with today?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Well, I think it's not just a piece of information,
it's a merge of wisdom.
If the world could be nice andnot act so stupid, I think we'd
get along so much better.
Don't you think stupid?
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I think we get along so much better, don't you think?
I, yeah, if the world wasn'twasn't so stupid, we would get
along better.
Yeah, I can get, I can, I canget behind that.
Yeah, 100, 100, because you,what is the dumbest thing you've
ever heard about?
What is the most ignorant thing, rather you've ever heard
someone say about autism oh,about autism.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Okay, that we're, that we can't do anything.
Yet there's still people outthere who have done millions of
things.
How can we, how can we not dosomething if there's someone on
the spectrum who's literally oneamerica's got talent?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
right.
So somebody told you that,being on the spectrum, that you
couldn't do anything.
Oh, I hear it all the time frompeople, the the one I that
really gets me is you don't lookautistic.
I get that one a lot, or Idon't look autistic.
I get that one a lot or I don'tsee it.
And I think you know,especially if you're a woman on
(23:07):
the spectrum right, women get it, you know like that a lot,
where they're told most oftenthan not that they don't look
autistic.
I know for sure like well, Ican speak for my experience at
least, being a woman on thespectrum you know you don't look
autistic, I don't see it.
I mean, but that's notsomething you see, it's
(23:27):
neurological, it's not.
There's no look to autism,right?
Have you ever been told thosethings too?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I haven't told those things.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
You have.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
It's just like.
I mean, what do they expect usto look like?
Do you know?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
No, from what I've heard, there's some facial
features, but you got to lookreal in-depth from them to see
if they're autistic or not.
But what are those features?
I don't know.
I just saw that pop up on aYouTube video one day.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Well, I actually was in a conference online and
because I'm a therapist, so wehave to do our continuing ed for
our license and I was doingthis autism certification course
and one of the speakers wastalking about different facial
features, different muscle toneand stuff like that.
But the thing is you really,like you said, going to your
point, you'd have to look at itwith a microscope.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Right, give me a second.
Okay, all right, so yeah.
(25:03):
With that being said, you knowI want to thank you so?
Speaker 1 (25:05):
much for being on here today.
Of course, anytime, bub, thankyou.
Keep inspiring, keep puttingout the good work.
I'm so proud of you and allwhat you're doing.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I appreciate it.
Thank you for having me on.
You can find me on yourfavorite media platforms.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
I'm not a hard guy to find what is the best way
people can reach out right.
What is the best way people canreach out to you?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
um.
The best people can reach outto me is the website.
I have a contact informationpage on there okay, what is the
website?
Autism rocks and rollscom okay,thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Thank you well today.
This was all for today'sepisode of on the Spectrum with
Sonia.
If you enjoy this content,please rate, review and
subscribe and share with yourfamily and friends.
And thank you for joining in,and please tune back in for more
episodes.
(25:57):
Thank you.
Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode of On
the Spectrum with Sonia podcast, where we discuss autism
spectrum, mental healthchallenges and anybody who's
overcome any adversity.
That will leave our audiencefeeling inspired, hopeful,
connected and filled with loveand support, especially in a
(00:26):
world that tries to disconnectus on a daily.
As many of you may know by now,april is International Autism
Awareness and Acceptance Month,and what many people don't think
about is what it is like to bediagnosed on the autism spectrum
(00:48):
, what it's like to have a kid,perhaps, who may be on the
autism spectrum, because a lotof people, when they're young
and carefree, right Like theydon't.
They're not thinking about oh,you know, do I have to be?
You know, am I different fromeveryone else?
Or, you know, if I have afamily, will my kid be different
(01:11):
from everyone else?
Everybody has their ownexpectations of life and what it
needs to look like, but justimagine being a child and you
know feeling different, havingparents be concerned about you
because they noticed somethingwas different about you that was
different from other peers ofthat kid's age.
(01:34):
Today, to discuss experiences ofbeing on the autism spectrum,
we have Sam Mitchell, who wasdiagnosed at age four.
He has a podcast, autism Rocksand Rolls, and he's worked with
nonprofit organizations to helpgive back to families of kids on
(01:57):
the autism spectrum.
He has used his diagnosis alsoas a way to become a
motivational speaker for many,many different audiences.
He's spoken in front ofbusiness leaders.
He's spoken in front of variousdifferent audiences to engage
(02:19):
in different perspectives.
He's also had very prominentpeople on his own podcast
because of just how inspiringSam is.
So please, without further ado,sam, please, thank you.
Thank you so much for beinghere today and welcome to the
show.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well, thank you for having me.
It's good to be here, Bob.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Love this, all right.
So, sam, tell us a little bitnow.
You said you had been diagnosedwhen you were four.
Well, sam, tell us a little bitnow.
You said you had been diagnosedwhen you were four.
Why don't you give us a littlebit of a perspective of what was
going on at four years old thatled your parents to get?
That led us, your parents, tobe like OK, let's go get him
evaluated, let's see what'sgoing on here.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
As far as I know, just showing the classic
textbook symptoms.
I had repetitive behaviors.
I did restricted interest andwas mainly professional
wrestling and I wouldn't stoptalking about it for the life of
me.
But those were some of thebehaviors I showed.
I think also too, I would havemeltdowns if something was too
loud at the time span.
Now loud noises don't bother meas much as they once upon a
(03:20):
time did so what kind of loudwould do you remember like
standing out to you?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
that would be really bothersome.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Thunder.
I think thunder and lightningwas one of them.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Right, those are loud Sure, and so thunder lightning.
What else do you remember?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
That's all I can remember.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Okay, so you got diagnosed at four.
You said your parents took youto a school psychologist,
correct?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Well, I think the parents.
Well, my mother taught at thesame school I did and also had
suspicious I was on the autismspectrum.
So what they did, from what Iunderstand, is they got a school
psychologist to diagnose me.
The school psychologist didtest on me, put me, observed me
(04:13):
in the classroom, andunfortunately I cannot remember
those tests, what they were.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
And when did you start realizing then that you
were on the spectrum?
Because at four I can onlyimagine that must have been a
difficult age to really kind ofunderstand.
Wait a minute, I'm on theautism spectrum.
So when did it kind of hit foryou that, okay, I'm on the
autism spectrum?
And how did it make you feelwhen you finally understood what
it meant to be on the spectrum?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Because it was at six years old and I pretty much
understood it through a book.
I was read a book calledUnderstanding Sam, and that was
when my life made much moresense, because I knew why I was
getting excluded.
I knew why no one else wastalking about professional
wrestling.
I think there was a legitreason why I was getting
excluded.
I knew why no one else wastalking about professional
wrestling.
I think there was a legitreason why I'm doing this.
(05:08):
I'm not trying to use autism asan excuse.
It's just that there's part ofautism, part of autism, parts of
autism that is going to happen.
We're going to have meltdownssome days as a young child and
then we're going to haverestriction inches.
That's how our brain is wired.
(05:29):
We can't help that.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
And what was it like for you then when you finally
understood that you're on thespectrum?
You read this book, you know.
Then you started making senseof everything in your life book,
you know.
Then you started making senseof everything in your life.
How do you feel like itimpacted you then when you went
and were around your peers whenyou were in school.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
It pretty much affected me because I didn't
like school when it came to thestudents because of how I would
interact.
It just didn't make sense tothem.
I wasn't bullied, I was atpoints.
I was mainly excluded and sadlyyou can't send a kid to the
office for exclusion becausethey didn't know how to take me.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
How did people used to react to you when you would
go and talk to them or try to bearound them Like how did people
respond?
Did anybody ever kind of giveyou any blowback, any kind of
like get away from us kind ofthing?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
it was get away from us mainly.
I got big eyes once, I think itwas in eighth grade.
The same year my mother was ateacher.
I said something that I thoughtfit.
I didn't see this, but as Iturned my back she looked at her
friend and she gave her bigeyes, like the bug eyes, like
what the heck was that all about?
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Hmm, so were you able to make any friends in school
growing up?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Not growing up.
When I grew up, let's put itthat way At the age of 16 16 I
decided that I was going to stoppeople pleasing if you didn't
like me.
The door was right there.
Okay, and that worked out sowell because at 16 years old, I
finally made some friends.
That wasn't the friend I hadsince kindergarten how did you
(07:23):
get into then?
now, like you're themotivational speaking and um
starting your podcast, you knowhow did you take what you have
and you know, use it to giveback the way I give back is I
(07:46):
try to help other people whohave been in my shoes because I
don't want anyone to go throughwhat I went through.
It can be really torturous onthe brain what is the one thing?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
you're afraid of people going through that?
You went through that.
You really just want to protectpeople from at all costs, if
you can they want to socialize,but just don't know how to.
Or they are trying to makefriends but they see, oh, it's
going down the pothole andthat's one of the biggest
challenges of being on theautism spectrum is somebody
(08:21):
who's on the spectrum herself.
I get it in that.
You know it is very difficultto make friends when you're on
the autism spectrum, and it'svery difficult to keep friends
too, and it's hard to be aroundpeople a lot of times too for
long periods of time.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
You know it really is .
It is really hard to deal withpeople.
It can be exhausting becauseit's an overlap of how to deal
with these social cues thatpeople do and people don't
understand.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
that is so exhausting all day, right, being in crowds
that can also get overwhelming,even though, don't get me wrong
, I'll still do things socially.
(09:15):
Like you know, I'll go toconferences, we'll go to
concerts every now and again,right, you do those things Right
.
I run races.
I'm very much a big runner, soI run races, but like it's
different to you know, but it's.
It's different, I guess, whenyou have an activity versus like
just social, when you're justkind of forced to be, you know,
on on cue in some ways, right,and you don't have like a script
(09:38):
or anything in front of you,and just when you're around
people for periods, long, long,long periods of time, it's like,
okay, well, what do you talkabout after a while?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Right, Right, yeah.
After a while it's like oh,this is so social awkwardness,
it's so uncomfortable.
I don't know what else to doother than just leave and be
disrespectful, which issomething I don't want to do.
I mean, as odd as it is, it isdisrespectful to just be like
bye-bye and walk out.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Did you ever feel drained when you were in school?
Because you were around peopleall day.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Oh yeah, probably I would say, senior year, when I
was about to graduate, is when.
That's why, after I would eatlunch, I would literally sit in
a what would you say, what wasit called?
Kind of by a wall toward thebathroom.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Wasn't in the bathroom, trust me, the bathroom
smelled there, but it wastoward the bathroom and I would
literally sit there and be on myphone to get away from people
and so the friends that youended up making when you were 16
, how did you, how are you ableto kind of crack that code from
(10:54):
having, from not being able tosocialize well when you were
younger to then younger than 16,to then turning 16 and being
able to make some friends?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Well, I came to the conclusion that if this change
didn't work, I would have saidokay, and I probably would have
been mad at a lot of people, butI would still have people on my
back because I still had twopeople at the time span versus
zero.
And I met some people wherethey've had zero.
(11:26):
They don't know what it's liketo have a friend.
Well, I'll be the guy to showthem that.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
So how did you make friends then?
How were you able to connect tothose two people and what
worked for you?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
What really worked for me was I think there's a lot
of people out there who are noton the spectrum but are just
outcasts to the world.
I fit in with the outcasts andthe world more than the poster
boys for success, because theydon't judge, they didn't care if
(12:05):
your social skills sucked theydidn't care if your social
skills sucked.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So when you, just when you were talking about
outcasts, what particularly areyou like?
Describing what traits like,what are things that made them
outcasts?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
well, I hate to use this term, but there's no other
way to describe it emos peoplewho are just different from the
high school jock to use thisterm, but there's no other way
to describe it emos people whoare just different from the high
school jock and you felt likethose people were a lot more
compassionate to you becausethey could understand that
correct.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
You know what you went through.
You know that is one thing.
I was an outcast.
That's why, like my book calledit's called dropped in a maze
my life on the spectrum fromoutcast to outstanding.
I was one of those outcastpeople with no friends.
So it's very interesting we'rehaving this conversation,
because I was one of those whodidn't know what it was like to
have a friend growing up, reallyso until unless it was like
(13:06):
family friends.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
You know what I mean, like parent involvement or
something you know, but you knowwhat I mean right, I was lucky
to have that in the family andthen, luckily, I was having to
make it, but that was before thejudgment started.
Because, let's be honest, whenyou're in kindergarten you don't
care, you're happy about theworld and you're just like oh
person, friends.
But then when you get older youstart seeing these social cues.
(13:29):
So I'm lucky to make to a madeone before the people identities
started to get revealed whatgrade were you in when you
noticed more identities startedto get revealed?
Sophomore year.
That was when I made friends.
That's when I saw people.
(13:50):
Actually, there are some outthere who don't mind being
around you.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Mm-hmm.
So what was it like for youthen, when you finally were able
to make friends?
How did that feel for you to beable to crack that code a
little bit?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
um, it felt pretty good.
It felt pretty good that peopleunderstood what I was worth of,
and it also felt good tounderstand what other people are
worth of.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And I finally found a group which, when at five years
old, it was unimaginable anddid your interest in wrestling
still remain or did it kind ofstart to change over?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
oh, it still is.
I'm still interested in it.
I'm'm going to try to watchWrestleMania next weekend, but I
got a friend who's interestedin wrestling.
That's half the time is ourconversations.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Have you ever taken a class before in like grappling
and mixed MMA?
Have you ever done any of those?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
No, it's not really wrestling.
Wrestling it's more of theprofessional wrestling.
Yeah, I tried once with ourschool, but the wrestling team
faded out.
I think it came to theconclusion we couldn't afford it
.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Oh, okay, gotcha, and did you have a favorite
wrestler?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Still have a favorite wrestler.
I got to meet him, mick Foley.
I had the privilege of meetinghim I think I was on another
wrestling podcast and theyhelped me make a boyhood dream
come true.
But I met several others.
I've had Jake the Snake on theshow, I've had Kane on the show,
I've had Buff Bagwell on theshow, I've had Victoria on the
show, I've had Al Snow on theshow and I've also had RVD on
(15:41):
the show.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Oh, wow.
So you had a whole lot ofpeople from there on your show.
Yep, I have.
That's so great.
How did you?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
come across that opportunity to meet them.
Well, it depends on what you'retalking about.
Half of them was so.
Al Snow there's differentstories.
In particular, al Snow wasliterally through a wrestling
event in Bloomington.
There was a local wrestlingevent.
He was going to be a guest.
Rvd was just a simple Facebookmessenger.
Kane was literally asking hisscheduling people.
(16:16):
I had to do a little bit ofphone calls on that one, but
then ones that, like Buff,bagwell and Victoria, I will go
to a wrestling convention calledthe Squared Circle Expo.
They're going to be actually intown in a couple of weeks.
So wrestling convention, andwhat I've done is I literally
asked those two to be on theshow and they agreed.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Oh, that's awesome.
Good for you.
So tell us a little bit moreabout your show.
You have a podcast Autismpodcast, autism roles.
When did that start?
Um, what motivated you to startthat?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
well, it started after I joined my high school's
media clone.
I fell, loved it so much in2016 no, I'm sorry, 2018 that's
why I started to go to some ofour school's podcasts called
thundercast.
But then I loved it so much Istarted deciding not wait till
college to expand my mediaskills and start my own podcast.
And that was when Autism, rocksand Rolls was born.
But it grew really quicklybecause 20 turned to 40, 40
(17:13):
turned to 100, 100 turned to 200.
A couple of people who helpedme out decided to enhance my um,
enhance my thank you, enhancemy podcast by having a
(17:35):
non-profit, having a board doingevents and any answers.
Where I'm from, I also domotivational speaking services,
but that was through Oklahoma.
That was my first big speakinggig and then everything else was
through the nonprofit.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Okay, and so you fell in love with podcasting.
When your high school had theirpodcast and you fell in love
with that idea.
You made one into your own.
You have people help you alongthe way to build it up.
Um, do you uh, do any live uhshows for your podcast?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
well, not until recently I had I started.
I started this new seriescalled the autism rocks worlds
podcast hijack series.
That's where guests come on theshow.
They literally hijack the showby telling their story and what
having autism means to them orwhat services they offer.
Okay, it was an idea, because Irealized I needed more content.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
That and that's where the idea came from okay and um,
so it sounds like you reallydid something, remarkable,
though you know it's like youreally used your voice to give
back through your podcasting.
Now I kind of want to ask too,what about the motivational
speaking?
How did you get more into doingthat?
(18:55):
Because you've spoken in frontof impressive audiences such as,
like, business leaders, such asall sorts of different, various
kinds of people from allvarious kinds of backgrounds.
So I want to know, like, howdid you get into that?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
You repeat the question.
My headphones died on me and itswitched on technology.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Oh, ok, no, no worries.
I wanted to know, like, how didyou like switched into, get
into motivational speaking?
How did you switch and get intomotivational speaking?
Because you've spoken in frontof very impressive audiences and
all the diverse audiences,you've spoken in front of
leaders before.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I wanted to know how did you get into that aspect?
The way I got into that aspectwas I literally got invited to
the speaking game and I sawthere was success down the path.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
So I was like, oh okay, there's actually some hope
in here and so how do you enjoyit though being, you know,
public speaking?
How are you enjoying you knowbeing on speaking?
How are you enjoying you knowbeing on stages, speaking on
stages?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
I enjoy it pretty good.
I think there's no nervousness.
I just get a little nervouswith the time because I'm afraid
I'm not going to get all myinformation in.
But it's something I signed upfor.
Not much I can really do aboutit.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
What topics do you tend to discuss when you are
speaking?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Well, I tend to speak on autism.
Sometimes it depends on whatthe conference is.
One time I spoke about my story, because that's what they
wanted.
One was about podcasting andwhat it means to me.
One was about technology andhow it can help those with
autism.
I have my own views on it, butI had to focus on the positive
(20:49):
side.
One was a work conference onwhy you should hire people with
autism.
Actually, not one, a couple ofthose were.
But then I've also done vendorsfor shows.
I was a vendor once upon a timefor a resource fair up in
Huntingburg, indiana.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Okay, that sounds really, I mean.
So that's very impressive.
It seems like you really are.
You've used you know, yourdiagnosis of being on the
spectrum to really give back, toget to give a voice to others,
to speak for others who may notbe able to speak up at at the
time.
You know there are things thatyou are doing.
(21:24):
That's you know.
You're putting remarkable workinto the world and I want to
just say thank you for all youare doing for those in the
community and thank you forpromoting the awareness and for
spreading your knowledge and foradvocating for inclusion.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Not a problem.
I appreciate it for inclusion,not a problem I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
What is one piece of inspiration you want to leave
the audience with today?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Well, I think it's not just a piece of information,
it's a merge of wisdom.
If the world could be nice andnot act so stupid, I think we'd
get along so much better.
Don't you think stupid?
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I think we get along so much better, don't you think?
I, yeah, if the world wasn'twasn't so stupid, we would get
along better.
Yeah, I can get, I can, I canget behind that.
Yeah, 100, 100, because you,what is the dumbest thing you've
ever heard about?
What is the most ignorant thing, rather you've ever heard
someone say about autism oh,about autism.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Okay, that we're, that we can't do anything.
Yet there's still people outthere who have done millions of
things.
How can we, how can we not dosomething if there's someone on
the spectrum who's literally oneamerica's got talent?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
right.
So somebody told you that,being on the spectrum, that you
couldn't do anything.
Oh, I hear it all the time frompeople, the the one I that
really gets me is you don't lookautistic.
I get that one a lot, or Idon't look autistic.
I get that one a lot or I don'tsee it.
And I think you know,especially if you're a woman on
(23:07):
the spectrum right, women get it, you know like that a lot,
where they're told most oftenthan not that they don't look
autistic.
I know for sure like well, Ican speak for my experience at
least, being a woman on thespectrum you know you don't look
autistic, I don't see it.
I mean, but that's notsomething you see, it's
(23:27):
neurological, it's not.
There's no look to autism,right?
Have you ever been told thosethings too?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I haven't told those things.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
You have.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
It's just like.
I mean, what do they expect usto look like?
Do you know?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
No, from what I've heard, there's some facial
features, but you got to lookreal in-depth from them to see
if they're autistic or not.
But what are those features?
I don't know.
I just saw that pop up on aYouTube video one day.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Well, I actually was in a conference online and
because I'm a therapist, so wehave to do our continuing ed for
our license and I was doingthis autism certification course
and one of the speakers wastalking about different facial
features, different muscle toneand stuff like that.
But the thing is you really,like you said, going to your
point, you'd have to look at itwith a microscope.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Right, give me a second.
Okay, all right, so yeah.
(25:03):
With that being said, you knowI want to thank you so?
Speaker 1 (25:05):
much for being on here today.
Of course, anytime, bub, thankyou.
Keep inspiring, keep puttingout the good work.
I'm so proud of you and allwhat you're doing.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I appreciate it.
Thank you for having me on.
You can find me on yourfavorite media platforms.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
I'm not a hard guy to find what is the best way
people can reach out right.
What is the best way people canreach out to you?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
um.
The best people can reach outto me is the website.
I have a contact informationpage on there okay, what is the
website?
Autism rocks and rollscom okay,thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Thank you well today.
This was all for today'sepisode of on the Spectrum with
Sonia.
If you enjoy this content,please rate, review and
subscribe and share with yourfamily and friends.
And thank you for joining in,and please tune back in for more
episodes.
(25:57):
Thank you.
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