October 4, 2024 • 58 mins
Please give it up for Caralyn Dreyer, whom for the very first time, spoke out loud her journey of surviving the trauma of sexual assault. As anybody knows, being vulnerable is a courageous act in and of itself, but when we are speaking the trauma of being sexually assaulted, the amount of courage and vulnerability is at a whole new level. Caralyn, not only discusses what she had to overcome, but also touches upon other areas that make her story relatable on multiple levels.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello everyone and welcome to On the Spectrum with
Sonia, a podcast where wediscuss autism spectrum disorder
, mental health challenges andanybody who's overcome any
challenge that leaves with amessage of inspiration,
empowerment, hope and, at theend of the day, helps us feel
(00:24):
all connected in a world thatalways tries to disconnect us
from one another.
So today I have a very specialguest, carolyn Dreher.
A special note about Carolynthis is her very, very first
time ever sharing her story outloud.
(00:45):
She was featured on ForceMagazine at her article about
her unfortunate encounter withsexual assault and she is using
her trauma to leave others withinspiration, empowerment, hope,
(01:08):
love and feeling connected.
I will say when Carolyn saidSonia, I'm ready to share my
story out loud and I felt safecoming on your platform.
I can't tell you how many tearsof joy I shed and I want to
start crying right now because Iam so humbled by this.
(01:28):
And I understand Carolyn had achoice of many, many podcasts
she could have chosen for herfirst time.
And I want to say and I knowI'm probably sounding like a
flight attendant right now andthey say you'd have a choice of
many airlines you could haveflown.
So we thank you for flying suchand such airline.
I want to say, carolyn, thankyou so much for being here.
I understand you had a choiceof so many other podcasts, so
(01:51):
without further ado, let'splease welcome Carolyn Dreher.
Woo-hoo, carolyn, yes.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
That is like the best welcome ever.
That was awesome.
I'm going to need that on avideo so I can have that every
day when I wake up.
But thank you so much forhaving me.
I'm so excited and you are thesweetest I.
You literally were the first onmy list when I was like, okay,
I'm ready to speak out, and soit's such an honor to be
(02:23):
recording with you and I'm justso excited.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Well, thank you, I'm really excited to have you on
here and you know, as I saidearlier, this is your first time
coming out and saying it outloud.
Let me ask you why.
Now, Carolyn, what is bringingyou to this now?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Why now, carolyn?
What is bringing you to thisnow?
I think there really issomething to when you are in
your 40s.
I wouldn't call it like amidlife crisis per se, but I
mean you really start to liketake inventory, and I've been
wanting to share my story foryears.
I mean, I've come so close, butyou know, life happens or I got
scared or whatever, but I justI'm just at a point now where I,
(03:12):
if, if my story can help justone person, I can't sit over
here anymore and just keepsilent and keep it to myself
Like I want the pain andsuffering that I've been through
to have been for some kind ofpurpose.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
So, yes, yes, and I feel like we've all gone through
things and the best is when wecan use what we've been through
to help it, inspire and givehope and encouragement and help
people feel like they're lessalone.
And this is the energy I getfrom you, carolyn, because you
(03:49):
know, I feel like you know.
When I see you and I talk toyou, I feel like you are that
person that wants to providethat and give that love to
others, and when I look at you,I see just all love to others
and when I look at you I seejust all love.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I try, I try to be a big ball of love as much as
possible.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I don't know.
You got to ask my son.
I don't know if he'd agree withthat all the time.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
but I feel like we all have a choice to let those
hardships and obstacles weigh usdown and make us bitter or
resentful, or we can, like, digdeep and, you know, turn it into
love and hope and all that kindof stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So Absolutely, and you know.
Speaking of which you know, youknow.
You say you have a son.
Tell me a little bit about youand your upbringing and your
family.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Okay, absolutely so.
I grew up in a small town inMichigan.
I am one of four children.
I have an older sister, twoyounger brothers.
Interesting quick backstory.
I was adopted.
So that's how I ended up in apredominantly white small town.
(05:01):
I was adopted from Pennsylvaniawhen I was about a year old.
But another interesting part tothat is my older sister was
also adopted.
We are not biologically related.
My adoptive mom was adopted andthen two of her brothers, my
(05:22):
uncles, were also adopted.
So it was a rough experiencebut it was not in the fact of.
You know, there was otherpeople in not having that
biological link and you knowthat's like a whole other topic,
(05:49):
you know but, I struggled withthat a little bit.
So overall it was a decentchildhood.
Like I grew up kind of in theoutskirts.
So we, you know, we were alwaysplaying outside.
I was running around bare feeteating tomatoes out of my mom.
So we, you know, we were alwaysplaying outside.
I was running around bare feeteating tomatoes out of my mom's
garden.
You know that type of stuff.
(06:09):
But it was a little challengingfor me because of skin color.
Like I just mentioned, it was apredominantly white town so
more often than not I was theonly brown girl in class or the
only minority.
So looking back, I think that'skind of when the social anxiety
(06:31):
started to slowly develop,because I always felt like all
eyes were always on me because Istuck out.
I didn't I mean, how could younot notice me?
I would go to the store with mydad, who's white, and I would
wonder, like, what are thesepeople think of you know, a
white man with, you know, aminority child?
(06:54):
I'm sure other people thoughtnothing of it, but to me as a
child I was like I wonder ifthey'll think that he kidnapped
me, you know, because it wasjust.
I just couldn't understand howI fit into the rest of the world
.
So that was.
That was hard.
School was okay.
(07:15):
I got bullied a little bitbecause of the skin color.
I was called the N word.
One little girl was like yeah,you, you took your bath in mud
today, that's why your skin isBrown.
Um, I got, it was awful.
Now I had a nickname for hertoo.
So in all fairness, you know,but at the same token, you know,
(07:37):
kids say things cause theydon't understand.
But, um, that was rough.
I got teased, uh, cause my facedidn't like catch up to my
mouth.
So my lips were a little bitbigger.
So I got called blubber lips.
On the school bus it was rough,but not to the point where I
didn't want to go to school.
I just had anxiety, the anxietyof riding the bus.
(08:00):
And then Black History Month Iliterally felt like all the kids
were turning and looking at melike, oh, I wonder what she
thinks about, and I'm sure theyweren't thinking that.
But that's like how it felt.
So I think that was like theslow development of being
(08:20):
extremely self-conscious, beingextremely self-conscious, and
the rest of childhood was okay.
I had friends.
The bullying pretty muchstopped in elementary school,
middle school, how that is yourhormones and all that.
You're breaking up with thisboy and in a fight with this
(08:42):
group of friends, breaking upwith this boy and in a fight
with this group of friends.
But that was probably one ofthe first times that I was
struggling.
I tried to run away from home insixth grade.
I don't know where exactly Iwas planning on going.
I didn't really plan that far.
What I did is I hid in thebathroom instead of getting on
(09:06):
the school bus.
So I'm hiding in there untilthe buses pull off and then on
the intercom I hear CarolynDreyer, could you please come to
the office, right?
Because my mom had calledbecause I didn't make it home
from school.
So that plan kind of fellthrough.
So she came to school and she'slike where were you going to go
(09:29):
?
And I was like, oh, I was goingto go to my friend Mandy's
house.
I didn't have any long-termplans.
Clearly I was in sixth grade.
What was I going to go?
Get a job.
You know what I mean.
But that was the first, probably, experience in life where I
felt I had to run away you know,at that young of an age and I
(09:50):
know it had a lot to do withfeeling like I didn't fit in,
even though I had friends.
I just always felt like, arethey friends with me Because
their parents are like yep, youknow the little brown girl in
class, make sure you include hertoo.
Like I thought stuff like that.
Like are they genuinely myfriends or are they just being
nice to me because they'regetting a lecture before they
(10:11):
leave the house in the morning?
So I think at that age, just abunch of complex things were
slowly starting to develop.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Sure, Sure, and it's like you always felt, like you
were othered is what I'm hearingis like you always felt like,
even though you were in anenvironment, you weren't in an
environment right At the sametime it was like yes, and so it
makes a lot of sense then whyyou wanted to escape and get
away.
(10:41):
Because let's just also face itsixth grade, you're in middle
school.
By then, middle schoolers arejerks okay they really are.
You know, I am working withmiddle schoolers now in my
practice and I have clients whoare sixth, seventh and eighth
grade right now and the storiesthey would share, that it's just
(11:05):
, it's heartbreaking.
Sometimes I look at them and Iwant to like really cry for them
, because it's like just peoplethe way they treat, get treated
and the way that they what theyfeel they need to do in order to
fit in, and you know the waypeople will, you know, make
judgments on them.
It's like you know what I mean.
(11:26):
I remember having that, youknow, and I remember being there
myself in sixth grade and, ohmy gosh, it was brutal.
Middle school is a hellhole.
Let's just put it this way, andI'm sure this is your
experience from what you'resaying.
I'm sure that this is somethingyou can heavily relate to it's
a hell hole.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yes, like my poor teacher, I promise you, like
every other day it was either meor my friend Carol or Tara or
Laura.
One of us was in the hallwaywith her in tears.
Oh, like so-and-so is, you know, won't sit with me or they
won't talk.
I mean that poor teacher blessher heart.
Middle school bless your heart.
(12:08):
I mean you got to have a lot ofpatience and it's a tricky time
because you're slowly startingto develop into who you're
becoming, but yet you're notcapable of really understanding
what that all entails.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Right and at you know , and at that time too, I think
it's hard for people that agebecause you know I'm writing my
memoir where I talk about thebullying and the things I've
been through and you knowlessons and reflections back and
I think when you're that age,you know you don't understand.
It's like it's always easy toassume why does everybody hate
(12:45):
me?
Why is everybody rejecting me?
What's wrong with me?
Instead of being able to turnthat focus around and being like
well, what's going on withthese other people, right?
What's so sad in their lifethat they have to act this way
at school?
What's going on with thesebullies, right?
What's missing in their lifethat they have to go in and
(13:08):
bully another person?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yes.
So you grew up in a town inMichigan, small town, and you
felt very othered.
You were, you felt like, eventhough you had friends, you
weren't sure if these friendsare genuine.
How long did this feeling last?
Did it last all throughoutmiddle school?
(13:34):
Did it go, did it stop inmiddle school or did it follow
you through high school?
How long did this like?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
go on, for I think it probably got better in high
school.
No, I'm going to say it gotbetter, but I feel like in
hindsight I maybe like buried itor maybe I found some way to
put it into perspective to whereI could deal with it, cause I
feel like high school was decent.
I had friends, I was involvedin the marching band, so I was a
(14:03):
band band.
But I did have an experiencewhere a boyfriend I was with
broke up with me and I found outthrough my friend that it was
because of my skin color.
And so that was so rough.
But my mom, she's Korean, soshe had gone through a similar
(14:25):
experience in high school where,you know, boys weren't allowed
to date her becauserelationships with friends.
I was heavily involved inchurch so that definitely was
(14:50):
something that was helpful.
So eventually I started to betrusting.
But I think because I was in asmall town, I didn't really
understand that you can't trusteverybody and, to be fair, my
parents live in the town thatthey grew up in.
(15:14):
My mom lives in the house thatshe grew up in.
So, to be fair, I don't knowthat they would have been able
to prepare me any differently.
You know what I'm sayingBecause they're still in the
same place Now.
We travel.
We went to like different partsof the country growing up, so
it's not like we were shelteredthat much.
(15:34):
But I think not knowing thatyou can't trust everybody was
something that played amonumental role when I went on
to college.
That played a monumental rolewhen I went on to college, which
, by the way, was a huge likeawareness, if you want to say.
I was a good girl in high school.
I never had alcohol.
(15:55):
I didn't hang out with the kindof kids that party.
The worst I would do is comehome late from talking to my
boyfriend in the parking lotafter work.
So college that I mean for lackof a better term I could say I
went buck wild.
I don't know how else to termthat, because I'm on my own, I'm
(16:17):
living on campus.
Look, I couldn't wait to go tocollege.
In fifth grade we had anassignment to write to a college
we'd want to go to.
I wrote to Penn State because Iwanted to go to college.
In fifth grade, we had anassignment to write to a college
we'd want to go to.
I wrote to Penn State because Iwanted to go to school there,
because I was adopted fromPennsylvania.
So I think in my head I waslike maybe I'll find my
biological mom, whatever.
So I was ready to go to college.
(16:37):
You know, like in fifth grade,like I was ready to go.
So when I finally got there, Imean I can go to bed when I want
, I can eat French fries everyday.
I should go to class every day,but who's going to tell me that
I have to, really?
So I went crazy.
Well, okay, I don't want to sayit like that, but it was
(17:00):
exciting.
It was an exciting time I waslike there's more people who
look like me, let's get this,we're going to do awesome.
And that happened for a littlebit.
But slowly, you know, some ofthose same themes from childhood
started to resurface.
(17:21):
I was not necessarily acceptedby minorities, but predominantly
the African-American communitywhich, by the way, I am half
African-American, half Korean.
I don't think I mentioned thatearlier.
So that's by being biracial.
You know that's a whole otherbeast to conquer.
(17:43):
But you know you feel like youdon't fit in with Caucasian
people.
I don't feel like I fit in withAfrican-Americans.
Most people don't even knowwhat my ethnicity is, you know,
just based off of looking at me.
So, again starting to feelaccepted, but not so much.
(18:05):
And you know, looking back, Iprobably this whole time was not
able to accept myself you know,I think is the main crux of it
all.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
So let me ask you, yeah, yeah.
So let me ask you this.
So, like this idea ofself-acceptance you know a lot
of this.
We start learning self-esteemin childhood, right, and that's
you know.
It's like when kids are praisedfor things they do well, when
they're made to feel safe ifthey make mistakes and can feel
(18:37):
like, okay, well, I'll still beloved unconditionally, right.
We learned this in childhoodand a lot of this also gets
reinforced then as we grow olderand with peer socialization and
things like that, Right.
And so you know, going throughwhat you've been through, right,
what parts of you started todisown you?
(18:59):
Because it seems like goingthrough what you've been through
growing up thus far.
Because it seems like goingthrough what you've been through
growing up thus far and thennot feeling like you fit in and
wondering are people reallygenuine to you?
And then finally finding somestride in high school to some
extent and then getting brokenup for because the guy was a
racist, yeah, right, and allalong.
(19:28):
And then going to college andthen once again having some
remnant themes you made somefriends, but then at the same
time, you also felt like youdidn't belong anywhere, like you
couldn't fit in with theCaucasians, you couldn't fit in
with the African-Americans, youcouldn't fit in with different
groups.
Yeah, what parts of you startedto feel like you disowned you
at the, you know, starting whenyou were younger.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
You know I this is like, probably a strange like
example.
But so because I I have ethnichair, so I used to wear my hair
short, growing up like short,short.
Um, so in sixth grade we it wasschool picture time.
I, you know, I always thoughtmy hair looked normal.
(20:08):
When school pictures came back,somebody pointed out oh, look
at you, you have an afro.
For some reason I don't want tosay I was offended, but it hurt
my feelings that they said that.
I don't know why.
But it was from that moment onthat I started to look at myself
(20:29):
differently.
I started to look at myselfdifferently up until that point
it's so crazy Like I accepted,like I thought I looked good.
I mean, I'm sure I did lookgood in my school picture.
But when somebody sayssomething like that, it switches
the way you view yourself.
It really really does.
And that as as strange of anexample that might be, that's
(20:53):
stuck with me because then Istarted I looked and I was like,
oh, I guess I didn't fit in asmuch as I thought.
And from that point on I don'tknow if I ever really got that
confidence back.
And then in college I had asimilar experiences.
These girls I had befriended, Ibelieve.
(21:14):
Actually all of them wereAfrican-American.
So I told you I had never drankbefore college.
So the first time I drank I wasdrunk.
I mean they thought I wasfaking it for attention.
So they had like this littleintervention with me, right.
So, mind you, these are girls Ijust met.
(21:35):
Now in hindsight their heartswere in the right place,
absolutely, but at the time sothey're all sitting around like
yeah, we're very concerned.
You know, you're kind of wild.
You're hanging out with allthese different guys.
We just think you're fakingwhen you're drinking.
And I was like who are thesegirls?
(21:56):
They have a lot of audacity.
They don't even know me.
They would know I'm the leastfake person ever.
I can't hide anything.
My emotions are always on myface, like you'll never really
have to guess where you stand.
But I was like the nerve ofthese girls to help me out for
(22:21):
having a good time.
You know, in hindsight they werelooking out, but I think also
at that point it was the merefact of people pointing out
their perspective of me andbecause I wasn't confident
enough in myself, I believed it.
I was like, oh well, I guessyou know there's another group
of people I've disappointed andI don't measure up to, so you
(22:44):
know, f them and I slowlydistanced myself.
You know I really should havestayed closer from those girls
in hindsight, but you know, youlive and you learn and so I
think just, I never could justget over other people's
perceptions of me, otherpeople's definitions of me.
(23:06):
I was allowing myself to fitother people's narratives,
basically because I didn't.
I was like, well, I'm trying tobe myself but that's not
working.
So, okay, well, let me just bewhat the people want and, you
know, fit their little narrativeof some clueless girl who's
faking her personality.
So you know, if you can't beatthem, join them type of
(23:29):
mentality, very self-destructivein that instance, because they,
they really were looking outfor my best interests.
The delivery was catty andhorrible, but the intent, you
know they were.
I'm not saying had I listenedto them, my life would have
changed drastically.
But in hindsight, you know, Ishould have had a different
(23:52):
crowd of friends.
But you know, I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Basically, you know, here's the thing.
You know, you, you were stilltrying to figure it out for
yourself.
You know it seems like, and youknow, and when you grow up, you
know not feeling accepted andfeeling safe in the sense of you
know what I can be, who I am,and I know that you know I'll be
(24:18):
okay because of who I am.
If you don't grow up with thatsense of safety and security,
right, it's how how are yousupposed to know any different
when you start, when you'retrying to navigate the world,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Absolutely.
So now we will fast forward alittle bit.
So, you know, college continued.
I would maybe show up for classhere and there, whatever.
So fast forward to the lastsemester of freshman year, which
(24:54):
was springtime.
So it was April, easter weekendat least.
You know, in Michigan a lot ofpeople, you know schools have a
long weekend.
So this girl that I was friendswith we had been roommates at
some point, but anyway we weregoing to go to her hometown,
which was near the Detroit area.
(25:14):
I was supposed to go home thatweekend to visit my parents,
easter weekend, go have Easterdinner, go to church.
You know, I only actually lived30, 40 minutes from my parents'
house.
I actually didn't venture awayas far as I thought.
So anyway we went to go hangout with my friends' friends,
(25:38):
they all went to differentschools, they were going to be
having some party, so we'rehanging out.
It's Friday.
We were supposed to head to myparents' house that Friday night
but my friend's like no, no,let's stay for this party.
And I'm like yeah, okay.
So I called my dad and I waslike yeah, dad, we're going to
be heading that way.
(25:59):
I think, probably like Saturdayor maybe even Sunday morning,
when he's like well, are yousure?
Like I really think you guysshould, you know, come when you
said I was like no, dad, we'llbe fine, We'll see you.
Then it's a little cryptic whenI continue with this story, you
know, at that moment, had I notbeen so rebellious, you know,
(26:22):
who knows.
But so, anyway, we go to thishouse party.
Now, a lot of the stuff I'mgoing to tell you I was to the
best of my recollection, youknow, due to time, because this
was like 20, over 20 years ago,and then also based on the
circumstances which I'll explain, I don't remember a whole lot.
(26:43):
So we're at this party.
I do know there was a couple ofpeople there that went to our
same school and then the rest ofthe people went to another
college.
So there's drinking, there'smusic, just chatting, you know,
(27:04):
typical college house party.
At some point in the night I doremember my friends saying I'm
going to leave and drop myboyfriend off at home and I'm
like, okay, I mean okay,whatever.
I'm sure I was inebriated atthis point, so I'm not thinking
(27:24):
anything of it.
I obviously felt safe, you know, it's not like I was hiding in
a corner or anything.
So she leaves, whatever.
I remember you know there'sdancing, whatever.
The night obviously hadprogressed.
(27:57):
Recollection that I have iswaking up laying on a bed.
Now we my friend and I hadplanned on spending the night
there Cause it was like it waslike an actual house.
It was like a house, so therewas room for us to sleep there
or whatever.
So I don't know how I ended upin that room.
I don't know if I said I wastired, I'm going to go lay down.
I don't know that part All Iknow, is, I wake up on a bed.
(28:17):
I had a lot to drink, so whenI'm waking up it's not like your
typical wake up, is very foggyand you know, I don't know
what's going on.
When I start to come to alittle bit, I realize I don't
have any clothes on.
Oh, and then somehow I'malerted that somebody is having
(28:45):
intercourse with me.
So it really is one of thosevery common, typical freeze
responses.
The only response I had wastears just streaming down my
face.
I didn't because I didn't knowwhat was going on.
I didn't know what to do.
The next thing, I know there'smore than one person in there.
(29:11):
So I don't know how theseindividuals were alerted, but
they realized I was crying.
The next thing, I know, a lightswitches on and I hear oh shit,
and there was more than oneunclothed male in there.
(29:31):
I don't know the number, youknow.
I don't know how long or whatexactly went down, so they all
scatter out of the room.
My next memory is still with,probably in a few minutes of
that, sitting on the bed.
I don't remember if I wascrying or not.
(29:52):
Now a guy sat with me and I'mnot a hundred percent certain,
but I do believe it was somebodythat my friend and I knew from
our school that we were friendswith.
I tried to call my girlfriendand tell her, like you know,
come get me, whatever, but shedidn't pick up the phone.
(30:12):
So at some point I end upfalling asleep and I think this
individual sat with me until Idid Next thing I know I wake up.
You know it's daylight outside.
I don't remember if I calledher, but she was obviously
always coming back to pick me up.
I remember her picking me up.
I think she probably asked mewhat was wrong.
(30:33):
We went to some diner to eatbreakfast.
I could barely eat.
I told her what happened.
The only thing I remember hersaying is well, I hope you don't
think this is my fault, becauseI do remember I probably was
crying, I tried to call you andyou didn't pick up, and I think
(30:53):
then her response to that waswell, I hope you don't think
this is my fault.
So, we drive to my parents'house.
So so many things are going on.
The number one thing, if myparents find out about this, am
(31:14):
I going to have to move backhome Like I.
What am I going to?
What am I?
My instant thing, I think,oddly enough, was like my
freedom's going to be taken away.
I don't know, I think that waspart of it.
But we drove to my parents'house.
I sat through Easter dinner,did not shed a tear.
I had fingernail marks in myhand because I had to, you know,
(31:39):
put on a brave face.
My friend was there, you know,my younger brothers were there.
It was like a family dinner.
We made small talk.
I don't think we stayedterribly long.
So me and my friend finallywent back to campus.
I never breathed a word of itto my parents.
It was later that night.
(32:00):
I called another friend and shewas like you have to go to the
YWCA, you have to go get an examdone.
You have to go do this.
I didn't want to go, but I went.
I showered.
Unfortunately, I know you'renot supposed to do that, but I
do understand why survivors dothat.
Because you feel disgusting.
(32:20):
Sure, you just want to wash itoff and shoot.
I didn't even know what theheck I was washing off because I
didn't really know whathappened.
So we go to the YWCA.
I remember sitting in a room.
It was dimly lit.
They did a rape kit on me.
So I remember sitting in thiswaiting room and a lady comes in
(32:44):
.
I don't remember everythingthat she said, but she did let
me know that they found a condominside of me.
It was stuck inside of me.
I broke down in tears.
(33:05):
I think that was the moment whenit really hit me like the
magnitude of what happened.
You know, I and I don't evenremember actually too much of
what happened from that point on.
I do remember her saying well,we'd like you to come back for
counseling.
I did go for the initialcounseling session but I never
(33:29):
returned after that because Ijust wanted to put it behind me.
I was like my parents can'tfind out.
So if I report this to thepolice, I mean, how are my
parents not going to find outabout it?
Number one.
Number two you know the typicalvictim blaming, victim shaming
situation while she was drinking, victim blaming, victim shaming
(33:53):
situation while she wasdrinking.
She was a college party girl.
You know, she was flirty.
She was this, she was that.
I know how that stuff works, youknow, and I didn't want to be
re-traumatized and not only that, these individuals were
football players at a prettymajor university and again, I
(34:15):
know how that stuff plays outtoo.
I get, I have an understandingof the legal system and all that
, but it just I knew what it waslike, one of those like David
and Goliath type of things, andthat's why a lot of these not to
like break off the subject, buta lot of these, like the Harvey
(34:36):
Weinstein Diddy, a lot of thesecases are very triggering for
me.
Sure, I get, I get it.
I get.
Now nobody like bullied me intosilence, so we'll get that
(34:57):
clear.
Like, nobody threatened me,nobody did any of that, but I
knew little me is going to be upagainst these pedestal athletes
who are probably going to haveattorneys If it went that far.
You know I'm thinking long-termand I was like.
I'm not going to be on the standhaving some defense attorney
(35:19):
grill me about what happened tome.
So I decided to not report itto the police and I don't want
to say that was a mistake.
You only are capable of doingwhat you have the ability to do
at that time.
Now, had this happened when I'min my forties and I have life
(35:42):
lessons under my belt, perhapsI'd have made a different
decision.
But I just wanted to be donewith it Now, to just skip ahead
really quickly of like.
Years later, I was like youknow what I'm going to say
something.
I'm ready to report this.
The statute of limitations hadrun.
That's unfortunate, you know,like throwing them back during
(36:08):
class.
It wasn't like that.
It was definitely like analcohol dependence, certainly in
(36:30):
social situations.
Okay, so the drinking.
You know I was drinking everynight, going out to the clubs,
going to this party.
One night I drank so much,somebody nudged me and I was so
inebriated I fell over and wasknocked unconscious.
The paramedics show up.
(36:53):
They couldn't.
I almost died that night.
They told me we couldn't findyour heartbeat because now, mind
you, I'm four, 11.
I was probably like one, 10,one, 15 pounds at the time.
So I don't need to drink a lot.
Mind you, you know I'm a virginto the drinking scene, right,
oh, I wake up in the hospital.
(37:15):
I had alcohol poisoning.
I got a minor in possession soI had to go to court for that.
I had to call my friend's momoh, by the way, your daughter's
in jail because she bought mealcohol, because her you know,
my friend was older than me.
She was able to purchase it,but I was a minor.
So that was there, was thatsituation.
So I just started likespiraling, like self-destruction
(37:37):
, stopped going to class, gotput on academic probation.
My financial aid was injeopardy.
I skipped ahead a little bit.
But after freshman year I movedback home.
But I had wanted to go out.
(37:58):
One night.
My mom said, no way.
I was like oh, really, okay.
I called up my girl.
I was like girl, come get me.
I packed all my stuff, wrote mymom a note and dipped out.
I was gone.
I moved out at I was 19.
I was 19.
I moved out.
I had to go, you know.
So I was estranged from myfamily for a little bit.
(38:21):
I had the alcohol poisoning.
The sexual assault was justalways.
I mean, I would close my eyesevery night and see it, the
stuff I remember.
I would see it.
I would close my eyes.
I mean, even to this day Iremember exactly where that
house is.
I could tell you how to getthere, and it's just.
(38:43):
It was a really, really roughtime and I couldn't really talk
to friends about it because theysaw me as the party girl.
So it's like.
Is anybody even going to believeme?
Or are they going to say it wasmy fault?
Speaker 1 (39:01):
And it seemed like when you were trying to explain
it to the first time to thefriend at the diner the next day
, you know, she tried to make itabout herself.
With all due respect, she triedto make it about herself and be
like, well, I hope you don'tthink that this is my fault and
you know it's just, it's a very,you know, like a it's kind of a
(39:22):
very selfish way to respond tosomebody who's trying to tell
you what happened to them thenight before.
And you know, I think that youknow it's understandable why you
felt like you couldn't come outor talk to anybody because you
were met with such a blowbackthe first time.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
And at a time when you really needed it the most,
because it just happened to youmost because it just happened to
you.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah, exactly.
And so I spiraled so badly thatthere was one night I was
sitting on the top bunk in myfriend's dorm Cause.
I think it must've been likeyeah, it was summertime, so I
moved out.
I wasn't taking summer classes,so I wasn't living on campus
yet, so I was staying with myfriend on campus.
I was ready to kill myself.
I was like I cannot take thisanymore.
I cannot take it.
(40:15):
Like the the I, the darkness is.
It's like a.
It's like a indescribablefeeling, Like I just literally
felt the weight of the world wason my shoulders.
I wasn't really talking to myfamily.
I'm dealing with this sexualassault.
I can't really talk about that.
(40:35):
I almost died from alcoholpoisoning.
I didn't even wrap my headaround the fact that I could
have died from that, and sothere's just all these things.
And so I was like I was wasgonna take a bunch of pills.
I was like I just it's justlike a, it's just like a
desperation of like I have to,like you just want to get out of
(40:56):
your own skin yes, I canempathize with that feeling,
because I've been there beforetoo, where I was just like I
can't keep going on every day.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
I get it.
It's like you want to.
You just want the pain to endso badly and you don't see a way
out.
You don't see.
You know, this is the thing.
It's like you don't want to die, but you also don't see the way
out.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And that's why there are somany different layers to suicide
, because it's not always aboutit's just you.
You just want out of thissituation.
You just want to be free andlike not have to wake up with a
dark cloud over your head Likeevery day.
It's just, it's just in thebackground, that noise, and so I
(41:41):
just I'm writing this note tomy family and it was divine
intervention, I swear to you.
It was because I am writing thisnote and this memory pops in my
head.
I had spoken to my mom after Imoved out, I don't remember when
, but she shared with me that myyoungest brother cried, because
(42:03):
at this time I think mybrothers must have been in like
elementary, middle school,somewhere around that age, but
the youngest brother cried thatI had moved out.
And that touched me in such away because, remember, I was
telling you I never really feltlike this connection with my
family, think I kind of and youand I have spoken about this
(42:30):
like underestimating theimportance that you bring to
other people, and in that momentI was like, oh my gosh, like
that's right, I'm important tosomebody.
I've got to figure this out.
And then I started to thinkabout like.
And then I started to thinkabout like, thinking about my
parents, like after I'm gone youknow, like how could I, how
(42:52):
could I do that to them?
And you know they didn't knowall this stuff that was going on
.
So it would literally be likeone of those situations where,
well, we didn't know anythingwas wrong.
And you know that's anotherreason I'm speaking out is just
to encourage people Like you.
Just, you gotta let that stuffout.
You know, you gotta let it out.
(43:14):
So, excuse me, got a littlechoked up there, but you know,
it's just that it's such apalpable feeling of like WTF,
like what, like, what do I do?
Like what the hell do I do?
Like I'm clawing my way out andthen somebody dumped a bunch of
(43:35):
sand on you and you fall backand you're at the bottom again
and then you've got to claw.
It's just, and you know, andthen I'm sure I have like
anxiety and depression.
That was always in thebackground too.
So it's just so many thingsgoing on.
And I called a trusted friendwhich were few and far between
at that point, and he actuallyat the time worked at a juvenile
(44:01):
detention center, so he waseducated in like crisis
intervention and that type ofstuff.
So I actually called the rightperson, thank God.
But you know he talked me down,he came over.
But you know, I didn't never goto counseling after that and up
until maybe recently I didn'tshare that with anybody, you
(44:23):
know.
But here I am today because Ijust have to.
You know.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
But here I am today because I just have to I am
willing to put myself on blast,so to speak, and probably so to
hope, you know, hoping that thistouches at least just one
person who's been there and cansee that you can come out of it.
You know, and your story is sopowerful Even I got choked up
listening.
Your story is so powerful, itneeds to be told, and you're
such an inspiration and a bravelady, and you know, you know,
(45:04):
just sharing what you did andwhat you know, and sharing all
the things you've been through,all the trials, the tribulations
, what would you say is some ofthe lessons, now that you've
learned, that you would like toshare to help other people who
may find themselves in a similarsituation, or facing or just
(45:29):
dealing with the aftermath of ittoo.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Yeah, oh, man, I mean I think you know I was writing
I'm a note taker, so excuse meso I was writing some notes to
prepare for this and thesethemes that I came up with were
like acceptance andaccountability, and I think,
(45:54):
unfortunately, we have to acceptthe hurt and the trauma that
we've been through.
We have to accept that that'ssomething that has happened to
us.
We have to accept that that'ssomething that has happened to
us Now, with accepting that youdon't take that on as your
(46:17):
identity per se.
You accept that I've beenthrough these rough things and
I've got to find a way to getout of it.
And I'm a very private personand for many reasons it's been
very difficult for me tomaintain friendships.
I can formulate them prettywell, but the one thing that I
wish I would have donedifferently back then was to
(46:41):
reach out Like no man is anisland.
I hate little sayings like that, but it's like, so appropriate.
I mean you can't, you can't getthrough these things on your
own.
You just you can't do it.
You, I, I did for the most part.
I mean I've had goodrelationships here and there,
but go to therapy, go to asupport group, you know, talk to
(47:06):
a friend, talk to a familymember, but you can't get
through these things on your ownand it's going to take a really
long time to look at the worldas a trusting, safe place.
It really is, and I strugglewith that.
It really is and I strugglewith that today, at times not as
(47:30):
bad as I used to, but you haveto take the tiniest, tiniest
steps to be able to slowly formthose connections.
But it's going to be up to you.
You can have all the support inthe world and I don't know if
I'm contradicting myself, butit's a balance.
You have to do the work on yourown.
But the bad things that havehappened to me, what I am
(48:09):
accountable for, is where I go,moving forward, and I'm not
found the strength to I don'tknow, maybe look for places
(48:36):
where I could.
There were.
I don't want to say there werewarning signs, but, like I said,
I wasn't prepared for thesocial aspect of college, so
I'll put it that way I wasn'tprepared for the social aspect
of college, so I'll put it thatway I wasn't prepared for that.
I wish I would have had morelessons about.
You have to be careful.
(48:57):
You have to be aware of yoursurroundings.
You know, I feel like I just Iwasn't prepared.
So I guess for anybody I don'tknow, for someone that's in
college or you can relate tolike being tossed out into the
big sea from like a small littlepond.
You got to find the rightpeople.
(49:18):
You got to stay true toyourself.
You can't take on the way otherpeople define you or see you.
You can't take that on, youcan't do it.
But I guess that's and just know.
I mean it's going to take time,but you have to be patient with
yourself.
You have to be patient, you'regoing to have setbacks, but that
(49:40):
doesn't mean you're notprogressing.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Well, these are very, very golden pieces of advice
you've just given, orsuggestions or life lessons that
we all can learn from.
I think you know you're verybrave and you know you say that,
you know you've had a problemforming friendships.
I want you to know that I'myour friend.
You have a new friend in me,sonia Chand, new friend in me,
(50:06):
and you know I understand the,you know the friendship piece.
I can empathize a lot with yourstory, in many different ways
of course, with you know thewhole feeling, other feeling
like.
You know you just wanted thepain to end so badly so you went
to a bad place.
I get that.
You know I can empathize withthose things and I want you to
know that.
You know, even thoughexperiences may have been
(50:29):
different, you know I can relatea lot to what you said today in
this and you know your story isvery relatable and very
different and many differentlevels, and you're going to
touch a lot of people's heartswith this.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Sonia, you are amazing and you have a friend
for life in me for sure.
I mean, I would say, like thispast year I've made, like so
many, we have a lot of mutualconnections, um, but I know that
these connections are likegoing to be lifelong.
I appreciate this platform, Iappreciate you.
Like I shared with you beforethis, I have the worst speaking
(51:15):
anxiety.
Like I'm talking, you don'twant to shake my hand afterwards
because it's super slippery andsweaty in my heart.
I hope you don't hear that inthe background, but I just felt
so comfortable and safe to sharemy story and you just your aura
is just so like comforting.
(51:36):
It's so comforting.
Thank you, you're going to makeme cry.
Anybody who has the opportunityand you know, the privilege of
being on your show or just beingsomebody that you talk to is
just a very lucky person and Ijust I appreciate you so much
(51:58):
and you know you get it like hotoff the presses, girl, girl.
Like you have the exclusive ofCarolyn Dreyer and I couldn't be
more proud or excited to havebeen able to be on your show to
share my story.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
I can't wait to, you know, put this out there.
And you know, I mean you know,speaking of this, I'm so glad
that you are saying it out loud.
Actually, my friend who youfollow, vasavi Kumar yeah, we're
mentioning you, vasavi, on thisone too, and I'm going to tell
her this when I speak to her at11.
She has a book called Say itOut Loud and I really feel like
(52:37):
here I'll show it to you rightnow.
It's a very good book, okay,and if you can get a hold of it,
definitely do it, because youknow what it's helped me a lot
(52:57):
with just being more bold andjust putting myself out there
more.
And I guess the one thing Ilove about this, too, is
culturally, because we're bothfrom a similar cultural
background.
She has bipolar disorder, whichshe's been open about, so I'm
not like spilling dirty secretson here, you know, and she talks
about her mental health youknow what I mean as well and all
(53:19):
the stuff on here, you know.
And I know you follow her onInstagram, but this is one thing
.
If you could read this book, Ithink this will help you a lot.
And then I know that, you know,just follow her page, you know,
because she's always postingreally good tips and tricks.
So definitely, with that and Ithink that you know your story
(53:47):
I'm so glad that you're comingout, you're sharing yourself.
I think anybody who knows youand gets to meet you has no
choice but to love you, becauseyou're so like you, you have a
bright aura, right.
I feel like we all find eachother right In one way, shape or
form, because, you know, I'vealways had it in me where I was
able to get people who've nevershared anything out loud before
(54:08):
to share it with me.
I've always had it in me where Iwas able to get people who've
never shared anything out loudbefore to share it with me.
I've always had that piece ofme where people would come to me
and tell me their stuff, andyou know so.
And I've always dreamt of beinga podcaster.
Eventually and I did it, Iopened it up in late January I
always, you know, wanted to helpothers and I've always dreamt
of being an author and I'vespoken before, but I want to do
(54:32):
more author speaker.
So because you're on this,you're on the newsletter, you
get exclusive access.
It goes both ways.
Now you access.
But yes, you know, one dayreally hope this too for you,
carolyn.
I hope you write your book oneday.
Speaker 2 (54:50):
I, you know there's a lot of big things coming up in
the future.
So you know, I I want to spreadthe message of growth, like we
have to grow through our pain.
Like we can't experience thepain and just like toss it aside
, like we have to be in thetrenches of it.
(55:12):
And when you're growing throughthat pain, you know, slowly the
layers peel back and you canuse your voice and not have to
feel like you're silencedanymore.
So you know, a book might be inthe future.
You know I am a writer, sothere's definitely going to be
some stuff.
And you know this is just asmall portion of the story but
(55:36):
it is certainly like thecornerstone of a lot of things
that happened in my life and I'mso happy to be on this new
journey of speaking out andyou've just said the kindest
things to me and again, I'm justso appreciative.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Well, I appreciate you and you know I don't just
say kind things out justrandomly to anybody.
I speak what I mean, becauseI'm that type of person.
I don't do fake stuff at all.
Speaker 2 (56:08):
I really don't.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
If I don't like someone, I will show them.
I am my mother's daughterultimately, at the end of the
day, because my mom is like thatas much as she denies it when
she doesn't like someone.
Actually, I've been in roomsbefore where she doesn't like
someone.
Right, people were laughing onetime.
(56:31):
I was trying not to die and Ithink other people were trying
not to die.
But my mom will show you whatshe doesn't like you.
Yeah, I'm the same same.
Yeah, so it's like and I figuredyou know, because you're very
authentic and true to who youare.
I'm very, very authentic, trueto me and I don't do fake stuff.
So you know, I think that youknow, so I just want you to know
(56:56):
.
I'm so proud of you.
I want to thank you.
I once again acknowledge youhad many other platforms you
could have chosen from, but Iwant to thank you for choosing
On the Spectrum with Sonia.
I want to thank you for beinghere.
I want to thank you forchoosing On the Spectrum with
Sonia.
I want to thank you for beinghere.
I want to thank you for sharingyour story.
I want to thank you for givingus that exclusivity to Carolyn.
Speaker 2 (57:12):
Dreher.
Yes, and thank you so much forhaving me.
You guys can follow me onInstagram at Carolyn underscore
Dreher.
You can find me through Sonia'spage too.
Underscore dryer.
You can find me through Sonia'spage too, but that's where you
can stay up to date on what'sgoing to be up and coming.
(57:33):
So, thank you, sonia, Iappreciate you so much.
You're doing such amazingthings and I truly, truly, truly
, wish you like the most successand prosperity, and you're
truly an inspiration to me.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (57:51):
Thank you, carolyn.
And that wraps it up, folks,for this week's episode of On
the Spectrum with Sonia.
Once again, carolyn Dreher hereyou can find her on Instagram
on Carolyn underscore Jerry, youcould find her, um, and when
you go on her page, just be, uh,just be warned that you're
(58:12):
going to be just filled withlove and positivity on that page
.
Um, also, uh, please don'tforget to like and subscribe to
this podcast, leave a review andplease tune in for more
episodes.
Thank you.
Hello everyone and welcome to On the Spectrum with
Sonia, a podcast where wediscuss autism spectrum disorder
, mental health challenges andanybody who's overcome any
challenge that leaves with amessage of inspiration,
empowerment, hope and, at theend of the day, helps us feel
(00:24):
all connected in a world thatalways tries to disconnect us
from one another.
So today I have a very specialguest, carolyn Dreher.
A special note about Carolynthis is her very, very first
time ever sharing her story outloud.
(00:45):
She was featured on ForceMagazine at her article about
her unfortunate encounter withsexual assault and she is using
her trauma to leave others withinspiration, empowerment, hope,
(01:08):
love and feeling connected.
I will say when Carolyn saidSonia, I'm ready to share my
story out loud and I felt safecoming on your platform.
I can't tell you how many tearsof joy I shed and I want to
start crying right now because Iam so humbled by this.
(01:28):
And I understand Carolyn had achoice of many, many podcasts
she could have chosen for herfirst time.
And I want to say and I knowI'm probably sounding like a
flight attendant right now andthey say you'd have a choice of
many airlines you could haveflown.
So we thank you for flying suchand such airline.
I want to say, carolyn, thankyou so much for being here.
I understand you had a choiceof so many other podcasts, so
(01:51):
without further ado, let'splease welcome Carolyn Dreher.
Woo-hoo, carolyn, yes.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
That is like the best welcome ever.
That was awesome.
I'm going to need that on avideo so I can have that every
day when I wake up.
But thank you so much forhaving me.
I'm so excited and you are thesweetest I.
You literally were the first onmy list when I was like, okay,
I'm ready to speak out, and soit's such an honor to be
(02:23):
recording with you and I'm justso excited.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Well, thank you, I'm really excited to have you on
here and you know, as I saidearlier, this is your first time
coming out and saying it outloud.
Let me ask you why.
Now, Carolyn, what is bringingyou to this now?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Why now, carolyn?
What is bringing you to thisnow?
I think there really issomething to when you are in
your 40s.
I wouldn't call it like amidlife crisis per se, but I
mean you really start to liketake inventory, and I've been
wanting to share my story foryears.
I mean, I've come so close, butyou know, life happens or I got
scared or whatever, but I justI'm just at a point now where I,
(03:12):
if, if my story can help justone person, I can't sit over
here anymore and just keepsilent and keep it to myself
Like I want the pain andsuffering that I've been through
to have been for some kind ofpurpose.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
So, yes, yes, and I feel like we've all gone through
things and the best is when wecan use what we've been through
to help it, inspire and givehope and encouragement and help
people feel like they're lessalone.
And this is the energy I getfrom you, carolyn, because you
(03:49):
know, I feel like you know.
When I see you and I talk toyou, I feel like you are that
person that wants to providethat and give that love to
others, and when I look at you,I see just all love to others
and when I look at you I seejust all love.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I try, I try to be a big ball of love as much as
possible.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I don't know.
You got to ask my son.
I don't know if he'd agree withthat all the time.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
but I feel like we all have a choice to let those
hardships and obstacles weigh usdown and make us bitter or
resentful, or we can, like, digdeep and, you know, turn it into
love and hope and all that kindof stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So Absolutely, and you know.
Speaking of which you know, youknow.
You say you have a son.
Tell me a little bit about youand your upbringing and your
family.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Okay, absolutely so.
I grew up in a small town inMichigan.
I am one of four children.
I have an older sister, twoyounger brothers.
Interesting quick backstory.
I was adopted.
So that's how I ended up in apredominantly white small town.
(05:01):
I was adopted from Pennsylvaniawhen I was about a year old.
But another interesting part tothat is my older sister was
also adopted.
We are not biologically related.
My adoptive mom was adopted andthen two of her brothers, my
(05:22):
uncles, were also adopted.
So it was a rough experiencebut it was not in the fact of.
You know, there was otherpeople in not having that
biological link and you knowthat's like a whole other topic,
(05:49):
you know but, I struggled withthat a little bit.
So overall it was a decentchildhood.
Like I grew up kind of in theoutskirts.
So we, you know, we were alwaysplaying outside.
I was running around bare feeteating tomatoes out of my mom.
So we, you know, we were alwaysplaying outside.
I was running around bare feeteating tomatoes out of my mom's
garden.
You know that type of stuff.
(06:09):
But it was a little challengingfor me because of skin color.
Like I just mentioned, it was apredominantly white town so
more often than not I was theonly brown girl in class or the
only minority.
So looking back, I think that'skind of when the social anxiety
(06:31):
started to slowly develop,because I always felt like all
eyes were always on me because Istuck out.
I didn't I mean, how could younot notice me?
I would go to the store with mydad, who's white, and I would
wonder, like, what are thesepeople think of you know, a
white man with, you know, aminority child?
(06:54):
I'm sure other people thoughtnothing of it, but to me as a
child I was like I wonder ifthey'll think that he kidnapped
me, you know, because it wasjust.
I just couldn't understand howI fit into the rest of the world
.
So that was.
That was hard.
School was okay.
(07:15):
I got bullied a little bitbecause of the skin color.
I was called the N word.
One little girl was like yeah,you, you took your bath in mud
today, that's why your skin isBrown.
Um, I got, it was awful.
Now I had a nickname for hertoo.
So in all fairness, you know,but at the same token, you know,
(07:37):
kids say things cause theydon't understand.
But, um, that was rough.
I got teased, uh, cause my facedidn't like catch up to my
mouth.
So my lips were a little bitbigger.
So I got called blubber lips.
On the school bus it was rough,but not to the point where I
didn't want to go to school.
I just had anxiety, the anxietyof riding the bus.
(08:00):
And then Black History Month Iliterally felt like all the kids
were turning and looking at melike, oh, I wonder what she
thinks about, and I'm sure theyweren't thinking that.
But that's like how it felt.
So I think that was like theslow development of being
(08:20):
extremely self-conscious, beingextremely self-conscious, and
the rest of childhood was okay.
I had friends.
The bullying pretty muchstopped in elementary school,
middle school, how that is yourhormones and all that.
You're breaking up with thisboy and in a fight with this
(08:42):
group of friends, breaking upwith this boy and in a fight
with this group of friends.
But that was probably one ofthe first times that I was
struggling.
I tried to run away from home insixth grade.
I don't know where exactly Iwas planning on going.
I didn't really plan that far.
What I did is I hid in thebathroom instead of getting on
(09:06):
the school bus.
So I'm hiding in there untilthe buses pull off and then on
the intercom I hear CarolynDreyer, could you please come to
the office, right?
Because my mom had calledbecause I didn't make it home
from school.
So that plan kind of fellthrough.
So she came to school and she'slike where were you going to go
(09:29):
?
And I was like, oh, I was goingto go to my friend Mandy's
house.
I didn't have any long-termplans.
Clearly I was in sixth grade.
What was I going to go?
Get a job.
You know what I mean.
But that was the first, probably, experience in life where I
felt I had to run away you know,at that young of an age and I
(09:50):
know it had a lot to do withfeeling like I didn't fit in,
even though I had friends.
I just always felt like, arethey friends with me Because
their parents are like yep, youknow the little brown girl in
class, make sure you include hertoo.
Like I thought stuff like that.
Like are they genuinely myfriends or are they just being
nice to me because they'regetting a lecture before they
(10:11):
leave the house in the morning?
So I think at that age, just abunch of complex things were
slowly starting to develop.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Sure, Sure, and it's like you always felt, like you
were othered is what I'm hearingis like you always felt like,
even though you were in anenvironment, you weren't in an
environment right At the sametime it was like yes, and so it
makes a lot of sense then whyyou wanted to escape and get
away.
(10:41):
Because let's just also face itsixth grade, you're in middle
school.
By then, middle schoolers arejerks okay they really are.
You know, I am working withmiddle schoolers now in my
practice and I have clients whoare sixth, seventh and eighth
grade right now and the storiesthey would share, that it's just
(11:05):
, it's heartbreaking.
Sometimes I look at them and Iwant to like really cry for them
, because it's like just peoplethe way they treat, get treated
and the way that they what theyfeel they need to do in order to
fit in, and you know the waypeople will, you know, make
judgments on them.
It's like you know what I mean.
(11:26):
I remember having that, youknow, and I remember being there
myself in sixth grade and, ohmy gosh, it was brutal.
Middle school is a hellhole.
Let's just put it this way, andI'm sure this is your
experience from what you'resaying.
I'm sure that this is somethingyou can heavily relate to it's
a hell hole.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yes, like my poor teacher, I promise you, like
every other day it was either meor my friend Carol or Tara or
Laura.
One of us was in the hallwaywith her in tears.
Oh, like so-and-so is, you know, won't sit with me or they
won't talk.
I mean that poor teacher blessher heart.
Middle school bless your heart.
(12:08):
I mean you got to have a lot ofpatience and it's a tricky time
because you're slowly startingto develop into who you're
becoming, but yet you're notcapable of really understanding
what that all entails.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Right and at you know , and at that time too, I think
it's hard for people that agebecause you know I'm writing my
memoir where I talk about thebullying and the things I've
been through and you knowlessons and reflections back and
I think when you're that age,you know you don't understand.
It's like it's always easy toassume why does everybody hate
(12:45):
me?
Why is everybody rejecting me?
What's wrong with me?
Instead of being able to turnthat focus around and being like
well, what's going on withthese other people, right?
What's so sad in their lifethat they have to act this way
at school?
What's going on with thesebullies, right?
What's missing in their lifethat they have to go in and
(13:08):
bully another person?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yes.
So you grew up in a town inMichigan, small town, and you
felt very othered.
You were, you felt like, eventhough you had friends, you
weren't sure if these friendsare genuine.
How long did this feeling last?
Did it last all throughoutmiddle school?
(13:34):
Did it go, did it stop inmiddle school or did it follow
you through high school?
How long did this like?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
go on, for I think it probably got better in high
school.
No, I'm going to say it gotbetter, but I feel like in
hindsight I maybe like buried itor maybe I found some way to
put it into perspective to whereI could deal with it, cause I
feel like high school was decent.
I had friends, I was involvedin the marching band, so I was a
(14:03):
band band.
But I did have an experiencewhere a boyfriend I was with
broke up with me and I found outthrough my friend that it was
because of my skin color.
And so that was so rough.
But my mom, she's Korean, soshe had gone through a similar
(14:25):
experience in high school where,you know, boys weren't allowed
to date her becauserelationships with friends.
I was heavily involved inchurch so that definitely was
(14:50):
something that was helpful.
So eventually I started to betrusting.
But I think because I was in asmall town, I didn't really
understand that you can't trusteverybody and, to be fair, my
parents live in the town thatthey grew up in.
(15:14):
My mom lives in the house thatshe grew up in.
So, to be fair, I don't knowthat they would have been able
to prepare me any differently.
You know what I'm sayingBecause they're still in the
same place Now.
We travel.
We went to like different partsof the country growing up, so
it's not like we were shelteredthat much.
(15:34):
But I think not knowing thatyou can't trust everybody was
something that played amonumental role when I went on
to college.
That played a monumental rolewhen I went on to college, which
, by the way, was a huge likeawareness, if you want to say.
I was a good girl in high school.
I never had alcohol.
(15:55):
I didn't hang out with the kindof kids that party.
The worst I would do is comehome late from talking to my
boyfriend in the parking lotafter work.
So college that I mean for lackof a better term I could say I
went buck wild.
I don't know how else to termthat, because I'm on my own, I'm
(16:17):
living on campus.
Look, I couldn't wait to go tocollege.
In fifth grade we had anassignment to write to a college
we'd want to go to.
I wrote to Penn State because Iwanted to go to college.
In fifth grade, we had anassignment to write to a college
we'd want to go to.
I wrote to Penn State because Iwanted to go to school there,
because I was adopted fromPennsylvania.
So I think in my head I waslike maybe I'll find my
biological mom, whatever.
So I was ready to go to college.
(16:37):
You know, like in fifth grade,like I was ready to go.
So when I finally got there, Imean I can go to bed when I want
, I can eat French fries everyday.
I should go to class every day,but who's going to tell me that
I have to, really?
So I went crazy.
Well, okay, I don't want to sayit like that, but it was
(17:00):
exciting.
It was an exciting time I waslike there's more people who
look like me, let's get this,we're going to do awesome.
And that happened for a littlebit.
But slowly, you know, some ofthose same themes from childhood
started to resurface.
(17:21):
I was not necessarily acceptedby minorities, but predominantly
the African-American communitywhich, by the way, I am half
African-American, half Korean.
I don't think I mentioned thatearlier.
So that's by being biracial.
You know that's a whole otherbeast to conquer.
(17:43):
But you know you feel like youdon't fit in with Caucasian
people.
I don't feel like I fit in withAfrican-Americans.
Most people don't even knowwhat my ethnicity is, you know,
just based off of looking at me.
So, again starting to feelaccepted, but not so much.
(18:05):
And you know, looking back, Iprobably this whole time was not
able to accept myself you know,I think is the main crux of it
all.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
So let me ask you, yeah, yeah.
So let me ask you this.
So, like this idea ofself-acceptance you know a lot
of this.
We start learning self-esteemin childhood, right, and that's
you know.
It's like when kids are praisedfor things they do well, when
they're made to feel safe ifthey make mistakes and can feel
(18:37):
like, okay, well, I'll still beloved unconditionally, right.
We learned this in childhoodand a lot of this also gets
reinforced then as we grow olderand with peer socialization and
things like that, Right.
And so you know, going throughwhat you've been through, right,
what parts of you started todisown you?
(18:59):
Because it seems like goingthrough what you've been through
growing up thus far.
Because it seems like goingthrough what you've been through
growing up thus far and thennot feeling like you fit in and
wondering are people reallygenuine to you?
And then finally finding somestride in high school to some
extent and then getting brokenup for because the guy was a
racist, yeah, right, and allalong.
(19:28):
And then going to college andthen once again having some
remnant themes you made somefriends, but then at the same
time, you also felt like youdidn't belong anywhere, like you
couldn't fit in with theCaucasians, you couldn't fit in
with the African-Americans, youcouldn't fit in with different
groups.
Yeah, what parts of you startedto feel like you disowned you
at the, you know, starting whenyou were younger.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
You know I this is like, probably a strange like
example.
But so because I I have ethnichair, so I used to wear my hair
short, growing up like short,short.
Um, so in sixth grade we it wasschool picture time.
I, you know, I always thoughtmy hair looked normal.
(20:08):
When school pictures came back,somebody pointed out oh, look
at you, you have an afro.
For some reason I don't want tosay I was offended, but it hurt
my feelings that they said that.
I don't know why.
But it was from that moment onthat I started to look at myself
(20:29):
differently.
I started to look at myselfdifferently up until that point
it's so crazy Like I accepted,like I thought I looked good.
I mean, I'm sure I did lookgood in my school picture.
But when somebody sayssomething like that, it switches
the way you view yourself.
It really really does.
And that as as strange of anexample that might be, that's
(20:53):
stuck with me because then Istarted I looked and I was like,
oh, I guess I didn't fit in asmuch as I thought.
And from that point on I don'tknow if I ever really got that
confidence back.
And then in college I had asimilar experiences.
These girls I had befriended, Ibelieve.
(21:14):
Actually all of them wereAfrican-American.
So I told you I had never drankbefore college.
So the first time I drank I wasdrunk.
I mean they thought I wasfaking it for attention.
So they had like this littleintervention with me, right.
So, mind you, these are girls Ijust met.
(21:35):
Now in hindsight their heartswere in the right place,
absolutely, but at the time sothey're all sitting around like
yeah, we're very concerned.
You know, you're kind of wild.
You're hanging out with allthese different guys.
We just think you're fakingwhen you're drinking.
And I was like who are thesegirls?
(21:56):
They have a lot of audacity.
They don't even know me.
They would know I'm the leastfake person ever.
I can't hide anything.
My emotions are always on myface, like you'll never really
have to guess where you stand.
But I was like the nerve ofthese girls to help me out for
(22:21):
having a good time.
You know, in hindsight they werelooking out, but I think also
at that point it was the merefact of people pointing out
their perspective of me andbecause I wasn't confident
enough in myself, I believed it.
I was like, oh well, I guessyou know there's another group
of people I've disappointed andI don't measure up to, so you
(22:44):
know, f them and I slowlydistanced myself.
You know I really should havestayed closer from those girls
in hindsight, but you know, youlive and you learn and so I
think just, I never could justget over other people's
perceptions of me, otherpeople's definitions of me.
(23:06):
I was allowing myself to fitother people's narratives,
basically because I didn't.
I was like, well, I'm trying tobe myself but that's not
working.
So, okay, well, let me just bewhat the people want and, you
know, fit their little narrativeof some clueless girl who's
faking her personality.
So you know, if you can't beatthem, join them type of
(23:29):
mentality, very self-destructivein that instance, because they,
they really were looking outfor my best interests.
The delivery was catty andhorrible, but the intent, you
know they were.
I'm not saying had I listenedto them, my life would have
changed drastically.
But in hindsight, you know, Ishould have had a different
(23:52):
crowd of friends.
But you know, I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Basically, you know, here's the thing.
You know, you, you were stilltrying to figure it out for
yourself.
You know it seems like, and youknow, and when you grow up, you
know not feeling accepted andfeeling safe in the sense of you
know what I can be, who I am,and I know that you know I'll be
(24:18):
okay because of who I am.
If you don't grow up with thatsense of safety and security,
right, it's how how are yousupposed to know any different
when you start, when you'retrying to navigate the world,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Absolutely.
So now we will fast forward alittle bit.
So, you know, college continued.
I would maybe show up for classhere and there, whatever.
So fast forward to the lastsemester of freshman year, which
(24:54):
was springtime.
So it was April, easter weekendat least.
You know, in Michigan a lot ofpeople, you know schools have a
long weekend.
So this girl that I was friendswith we had been roommates at
some point, but anyway we weregoing to go to her hometown,
which was near the Detroit area.
(25:14):
I was supposed to go home thatweekend to visit my parents,
easter weekend, go have Easterdinner, go to church.
You know, I only actually lived30, 40 minutes from my parents'
house.
I actually didn't venture awayas far as I thought.
So anyway we went to go hangout with my friends' friends,
(25:38):
they all went to differentschools, they were going to be
having some party, so we'rehanging out.
It's Friday.
We were supposed to head to myparents' house that Friday night
but my friend's like no, no,let's stay for this party.
And I'm like yeah, okay.
So I called my dad and I waslike yeah, dad, we're going to
be heading that way.
(25:59):
I think, probably like Saturdayor maybe even Sunday morning,
when he's like well, are yousure?
Like I really think you guysshould, you know, come when you
said I was like no, dad, we'llbe fine, We'll see you.
Then it's a little cryptic whenI continue with this story, you
know, at that moment, had I notbeen so rebellious, you know,
(26:22):
who knows.
But so, anyway, we go to thishouse party.
Now, a lot of the stuff I'mgoing to tell you I was to the
best of my recollection, youknow, due to time, because this
was like 20, over 20 years ago,and then also based on the
circumstances which I'll explain, I don't remember a whole lot.
(26:43):
So we're at this party.
I do know there was a couple ofpeople there that went to our
same school and then the rest ofthe people went to another
college.
So there's drinking, there'smusic, just chatting, you know,
(27:04):
typical college house party.
At some point in the night I doremember my friends saying I'm
going to leave and drop myboyfriend off at home and I'm
like, okay, I mean okay,whatever.
I'm sure I was inebriated atthis point, so I'm not thinking
(27:24):
anything of it.
I obviously felt safe, you know, it's not like I was hiding in
a corner or anything.
So she leaves, whatever.
I remember you know there'sdancing, whatever.
The night obviously hadprogressed.
(27:57):
Recollection that I have iswaking up laying on a bed.
Now we my friend and I hadplanned on spending the night
there Cause it was like it waslike an actual house.
It was like a house, so therewas room for us to sleep there
or whatever.
So I don't know how I ended upin that room.
I don't know if I said I wastired, I'm going to go lay down.
I don't know that part All Iknow, is, I wake up on a bed.
(28:17):
I had a lot to drink, so whenI'm waking up it's not like your
typical wake up, is very foggyand you know, I don't know
what's going on.
When I start to come to alittle bit, I realize I don't
have any clothes on.
Oh, and then somehow I'malerted that somebody is having
(28:45):
intercourse with me.
So it really is one of thosevery common, typical freeze
responses.
The only response I had wastears just streaming down my
face.
I didn't because I didn't knowwhat was going on.
I didn't know what to do.
The next thing, I know there'smore than one person in there.
(29:11):
So I don't know how theseindividuals were alerted, but
they realized I was crying.
The next thing, I know, a lightswitches on and I hear oh shit,
and there was more than oneunclothed male in there.
(29:31):
I don't know the number, youknow.
I don't know how long or whatexactly went down, so they all
scatter out of the room.
My next memory is still with,probably in a few minutes of
that, sitting on the bed.
I don't remember if I wascrying or not.
(29:52):
Now a guy sat with me and I'mnot a hundred percent certain,
but I do believe it was somebodythat my friend and I knew from
our school that we were friendswith.
I tried to call my girlfriendand tell her, like you know,
come get me, whatever, but shedidn't pick up the phone.
(30:12):
So at some point I end upfalling asleep and I think this
individual sat with me until Idid Next thing I know I wake up.
You know it's daylight outside.
I don't remember if I calledher, but she was obviously
always coming back to pick me up.
I remember her picking me up.
I think she probably asked mewhat was wrong.
(30:33):
We went to some diner to eatbreakfast.
I could barely eat.
I told her what happened.
The only thing I remember hersaying is well, I hope you don't
think this is my fault, becauseI do remember I probably was
crying, I tried to call you andyou didn't pick up, and I think
(30:53):
then her response to that waswell, I hope you don't think
this is my fault.
So, we drive to my parents'house.
So so many things are going on.
The number one thing, if myparents find out about this, am
(31:14):
I going to have to move backhome Like I.
What am I going to?
What am I?
My instant thing, I think,oddly enough, was like my
freedom's going to be taken away.
I don't know, I think that waspart of it.
But we drove to my parents'house.
I sat through Easter dinner,did not shed a tear.
I had fingernail marks in myhand because I had to, you know,
(31:39):
put on a brave face.
My friend was there, you know,my younger brothers were there.
It was like a family dinner.
We made small talk.
I don't think we stayedterribly long.
So me and my friend finallywent back to campus.
I never breathed a word of itto my parents.
It was later that night.
(32:00):
I called another friend and shewas like you have to go to the
YWCA, you have to go get an examdone.
You have to go do this.
I didn't want to go, but I went.
I showered.
Unfortunately, I know you'renot supposed to do that, but I
do understand why survivors dothat.
Because you feel disgusting.
(32:20):
Sure, you just want to wash itoff and shoot.
I didn't even know what theheck I was washing off because I
didn't really know whathappened.
So we go to the YWCA.
I remember sitting in a room.
It was dimly lit.
They did a rape kit on me.
So I remember sitting in thiswaiting room and a lady comes in
(32:44):
.
I don't remember everythingthat she said, but she did let
me know that they found a condominside of me.
It was stuck inside of me.
I broke down in tears.
(33:05):
I think that was the moment whenit really hit me like the
magnitude of what happened.
You know, I and I don't evenremember actually too much of
what happened from that point on.
I do remember her saying well,we'd like you to come back for
counseling.
I did go for the initialcounseling session but I never
(33:29):
returned after that because Ijust wanted to put it behind me.
I was like my parents can'tfind out.
So if I report this to thepolice, I mean, how are my
parents not going to find outabout it?
Number one.
Number two you know the typicalvictim blaming, victim shaming
situation while she was drinking, victim blaming, victim shaming
(33:53):
situation while she wasdrinking.
She was a college party girl.
You know, she was flirty.
She was this, she was that.
I know how that stuff works, youknow, and I didn't want to be
re-traumatized and not only that, these individuals were
football players at a prettymajor university and again, I
(34:15):
know how that stuff plays outtoo.
I get, I have an understandingof the legal system and all that
, but it just I knew what it waslike, one of those like David
and Goliath type of things, andthat's why a lot of these not to
like break off the subject, buta lot of these, like the Harvey
(34:36):
Weinstein Diddy, a lot of thesecases are very triggering for
me.
Sure, I get, I get it.
I get.
Now nobody like bullied me intosilence, so we'll get that
(34:57):
clear.
Like, nobody threatened me,nobody did any of that, but I
knew little me is going to be upagainst these pedestal athletes
who are probably going to haveattorneys If it went that far.
You know I'm thinking long-termand I was like.
I'm not going to be on the standhaving some defense attorney
(35:19):
grill me about what happened tome.
So I decided to not report itto the police and I don't want
to say that was a mistake.
You only are capable of doingwhat you have the ability to do
at that time.
Now, had this happened when I'min my forties and I have life
(35:42):
lessons under my belt, perhapsI'd have made a different
decision.
But I just wanted to be donewith it Now, to just skip ahead
really quickly of like.
Years later, I was like youknow what I'm going to say
something.
I'm ready to report this.
The statute of limitations hadrun.
That's unfortunate, you know,like throwing them back during
(36:08):
class.
It wasn't like that.
It was definitely like analcohol dependence, certainly in
(36:30):
social situations.
Okay, so the drinking.
You know I was drinking everynight, going out to the clubs,
going to this party.
One night I drank so much,somebody nudged me and I was so
inebriated I fell over and wasknocked unconscious.
The paramedics show up.
(36:53):
They couldn't.
I almost died that night.
They told me we couldn't findyour heartbeat because now, mind
you, I'm four, 11.
I was probably like one, 10,one, 15 pounds at the time.
So I don't need to drink a lot.
Mind you, you know I'm a virginto the drinking scene, right,
oh, I wake up in the hospital.
(37:15):
I had alcohol poisoning.
I got a minor in possession soI had to go to court for that.
I had to call my friend's momoh, by the way, your daughter's
in jail because she bought mealcohol, because her you know,
my friend was older than me.
She was able to purchase it,but I was a minor.
So that was there, was thatsituation.
So I just started likespiraling, like self-destruction
(37:37):
, stopped going to class, gotput on academic probation.
My financial aid was injeopardy.
I skipped ahead a little bit.
But after freshman year I movedback home.
But I had wanted to go out.
(37:58):
One night.
My mom said, no way.
I was like oh, really, okay.
I called up my girl.
I was like girl, come get me.
I packed all my stuff, wrote mymom a note and dipped out.
I was gone.
I moved out at I was 19.
I was 19.
I moved out.
I had to go, you know.
So I was estranged from myfamily for a little bit.
(38:21):
I had the alcohol poisoning.
The sexual assault was justalways.
I mean, I would close my eyesevery night and see it, the
stuff I remember.
I would see it.
I would close my eyes.
I mean, even to this day Iremember exactly where that
house is.
I could tell you how to getthere, and it's just.
(38:43):
It was a really, really roughtime and I couldn't really talk
to friends about it because theysaw me as the party girl.
So it's like.
Is anybody even going to believeme?
Or are they going to say it wasmy fault?
Speaker 1 (39:01):
And it seemed like when you were trying to explain
it to the first time to thefriend at the diner the next day
, you know, she tried to make itabout herself.
With all due respect, she triedto make it about herself and be
like, well, I hope you don'tthink that this is my fault and
you know it's just, it's a very,you know, like a it's kind of a
(39:22):
very selfish way to respond tosomebody who's trying to tell
you what happened to them thenight before.
And you know, I think that youknow it's understandable why you
felt like you couldn't come outor talk to anybody because you
were met with such a blowbackthe first time.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
And at a time when you really needed it the most,
because it just happened to youmost because it just happened to
you.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah, exactly.
And so I spiraled so badly thatthere was one night I was
sitting on the top bunk in myfriend's dorm Cause.
I think it must've been likeyeah, it was summertime, so I
moved out.
I wasn't taking summer classes,so I wasn't living on campus
yet, so I was staying with myfriend on campus.
I was ready to kill myself.
I was like I cannot take thisanymore.
I cannot take it.
(40:15):
Like the the I, the darkness is.
It's like a.
It's like a indescribablefeeling, Like I just literally
felt the weight of the world wason my shoulders.
I wasn't really talking to myfamily.
I'm dealing with this sexualassault.
I can't really talk about that.
(40:35):
I almost died from alcoholpoisoning.
I didn't even wrap my headaround the fact that I could
have died from that, and sothere's just all these things.
And so I was like I was wasgonna take a bunch of pills.
I was like I just it's justlike a, it's just like a
desperation of like I have to,like you just want to get out of
(40:56):
your own skin yes, I canempathize with that feeling,
because I've been there beforetoo, where I was just like I
can't keep going on every day.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
I get it.
It's like you want to.
You just want the pain to endso badly and you don't see a way
out.
You don't see.
You know, this is the thing.
It's like you don't want to die, but you also don't see the way
out.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And that's why there are somany different layers to suicide
, because it's not always aboutit's just you.
You just want out of thissituation.
You just want to be free andlike not have to wake up with a
dark cloud over your head Likeevery day.
It's just, it's just in thebackground, that noise, and so I
(41:41):
just I'm writing this note tomy family and it was divine
intervention, I swear to you.
It was because I am writing thisnote and this memory pops in my
head.
I had spoken to my mom after Imoved out, I don't remember when
, but she shared with me that myyoungest brother cried, because
(42:03):
at this time I think mybrothers must have been in like
elementary, middle school,somewhere around that age, but
the youngest brother cried thatI had moved out.
And that touched me in such away because, remember, I was
telling you I never really feltlike this connection with my
family, think I kind of and youand I have spoken about this
(42:30):
like underestimating theimportance that you bring to
other people, and in that momentI was like, oh my gosh, like
that's right, I'm important tosomebody.
I've got to figure this out.
And then I started to thinkabout like.
And then I started to thinkabout like, thinking about my
parents, like after I'm gone youknow, like how could I, how
(42:52):
could I do that to them?
And you know they didn't knowall this stuff that was going on
.
So it would literally be likeone of those situations where,
well, we didn't know anythingwas wrong.
And you know that's anotherreason I'm speaking out is just
to encourage people Like you.
Just, you gotta let that stuffout.
You know, you gotta let it out.
(43:14):
So, excuse me, got a littlechoked up there, but you know,
it's just that it's such apalpable feeling of like WTF,
like what, like, what do I do?
Like what the hell do I do?
Like I'm clawing my way out andthen somebody dumped a bunch of
(43:35):
sand on you and you fall backand you're at the bottom again
and then you've got to claw.
It's just, and you know, andthen I'm sure I have like
anxiety and depression.
That was always in thebackground too.
So it's just so many thingsgoing on.
And I called a trusted friendwhich were few and far between
at that point, and he actuallyat the time worked at a juvenile
(44:01):
detention center, so he waseducated in like crisis
intervention and that type ofstuff.
So I actually called the rightperson, thank God.
But you know he talked me down,he came over.
But you know, I didn't never goto counseling after that and up
until maybe recently I didn'tshare that with anybody, you
(44:23):
know.
But here I am today because Ijust have to.
You know.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
But here I am today because I just have to I am
willing to put myself on blast,so to speak, and probably so to
hope, you know, hoping that thistouches at least just one
person who's been there and cansee that you can come out of it.
You know, and your story is sopowerful Even I got choked up
listening.
Your story is so powerful, itneeds to be told, and you're
such an inspiration and a bravelady, and you know, you know,
(45:04):
just sharing what you did andwhat you know, and sharing all
the things you've been through,all the trials, the tribulations
, what would you say is some ofthe lessons, now that you've
learned, that you would like toshare to help other people who
may find themselves in a similarsituation, or facing or just
(45:29):
dealing with the aftermath of ittoo.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Yeah, oh, man, I mean I think you know I was writing
I'm a note taker, so excuse meso I was writing some notes to
prepare for this and thesethemes that I came up with were
like acceptance andaccountability, and I think,
(45:54):
unfortunately, we have to acceptthe hurt and the trauma that
we've been through.
We have to accept that that'ssomething that has happened to
us.
We have to accept that that'ssomething that has happened to
us Now, with accepting that youdon't take that on as your
(46:17):
identity per se.
You accept that I've beenthrough these rough things and
I've got to find a way to getout of it.
And I'm a very private personand for many reasons it's been
very difficult for me tomaintain friendships.
I can formulate them prettywell, but the one thing that I
wish I would have donedifferently back then was to
(46:41):
reach out Like no man is anisland.
I hate little sayings like that, but it's like, so appropriate.
I mean you can't, you can't getthrough these things on your
own.
You just you can't do it.
You, I, I did for the most part.
I mean I've had goodrelationships here and there,
but go to therapy, go to asupport group, you know, talk to
(47:06):
a friend, talk to a familymember, but you can't get
through these things on your ownand it's going to take a really
long time to look at the worldas a trusting, safe place.
It really is, and I strugglewith that.
It really is and I strugglewith that today, at times not as
(47:30):
bad as I used to, but you haveto take the tiniest, tiniest
steps to be able to slowly formthose connections.
But it's going to be up to you.
You can have all the support inthe world and I don't know if
I'm contradicting myself, butit's a balance.
You have to do the work on yourown.
But the bad things that havehappened to me, what I am
(48:09):
accountable for, is where I go,moving forward, and I'm not
found the strength to I don'tknow, maybe look for places
(48:36):
where I could.
There were.
I don't want to say there werewarning signs, but, like I said,
I wasn't prepared for thesocial aspect of college, so
I'll put it that way I wasn'tprepared for the social aspect
of college, so I'll put it thatway I wasn't prepared for that.
I wish I would have had morelessons about.
You have to be careful.
(48:57):
You have to be aware of yoursurroundings.
You know, I feel like I just Iwasn't prepared.
So I guess for anybody I don'tknow, for someone that's in
college or you can relate tolike being tossed out into the
big sea from like a small littlepond.
You got to find the rightpeople.
(49:18):
You got to stay true toyourself.
You can't take on the way otherpeople define you or see you.
You can't take that on, youcan't do it.
But I guess that's and just know.
I mean it's going to take time,but you have to be patient with
yourself.
You have to be patient, you'regoing to have setbacks, but that
(49:40):
doesn't mean you're notprogressing.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Well, these are very, very golden pieces of advice
you've just given, orsuggestions or life lessons that
we all can learn from.
I think you know you're verybrave and you know you say that,
you know you've had a problemforming friendships.
I want you to know that I'myour friend.
You have a new friend in me,sonia Chand, new friend in me,
(50:06):
and you know I understand the,you know the friendship piece.
I can empathize a lot with yourstory, in many different ways
of course, with you know thewhole feeling, other feeling
like.
You know you just wanted thepain to end so badly so you went
to a bad place.
I get that.
You know I can empathize withthose things and I want you to
know that.
You know, even thoughexperiences may have been
(50:29):
different, you know I can relatea lot to what you said today in
this and you know your story isvery relatable and very
different and many differentlevels, and you're going to
touch a lot of people's heartswith this.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Sonia, you are amazing and you have a friend
for life in me for sure.
I mean, I would say, like thispast year I've made, like so
many, we have a lot of mutualconnections, um, but I know that
these connections are likegoing to be lifelong.
I appreciate this platform, Iappreciate you.
Like I shared with you beforethis, I have the worst speaking
(51:15):
anxiety.
Like I'm talking, you don'twant to shake my hand afterwards
because it's super slippery andsweaty in my heart.
I hope you don't hear that inthe background, but I just felt
so comfortable and safe to sharemy story and you just your aura
is just so like comforting.
(51:36):
It's so comforting.
Thank you, you're going to makeme cry.
Anybody who has the opportunityand you know, the privilege of
being on your show or just beingsomebody that you talk to is
just a very lucky person and Ijust I appreciate you so much
(51:58):
and you know you get it like hotoff the presses, girl, girl.
Like you have the exclusive ofCarolyn Dreyer and I couldn't be
more proud or excited to havebeen able to be on your show to
share my story.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
I can't wait to, you know, put this out there.
And you know, I mean you know,speaking of this, I'm so glad
that you are saying it out loud.
Actually, my friend who youfollow, vasavi Kumar yeah, we're
mentioning you, vasavi, on thisone too, and I'm going to tell
her this when I speak to her at11.
She has a book called Say itOut Loud and I really feel like
(52:37):
here I'll show it to you rightnow.
It's a very good book, okay,and if you can get a hold of it,
definitely do it, because youknow what it's helped me a lot
(52:57):
with just being more bold andjust putting myself out there
more.
And I guess the one thing Ilove about this, too, is
culturally, because we're bothfrom a similar cultural
background.
She has bipolar disorder, whichshe's been open about, so I'm
not like spilling dirty secretson here, you know, and she talks
about her mental health youknow what I mean as well and all
(53:19):
the stuff on here, you know.
And I know you follow her onInstagram, but this is one thing
.
If you could read this book, Ithink this will help you a lot.
And then I know that, you know,just follow her page, you know,
because she's always postingreally good tips and tricks.
So definitely, with that and Ithink that you know your story
(53:47):
I'm so glad that you're comingout, you're sharing yourself.
I think anybody who knows youand gets to meet you has no
choice but to love you, becauseyou're so like you, you have a
bright aura, right.
I feel like we all find eachother right In one way, shape or
form, because, you know, I'vealways had it in me where I was
able to get people who've nevershared anything out loud before
(54:08):
to share it with me.
I've always had it in me where Iwas able to get people who've
never shared anything out loudbefore to share it with me.
I've always had that piece ofme where people would come to me
and tell me their stuff, andyou know so.
And I've always dreamt of beinga podcaster.
Eventually and I did it, Iopened it up in late January I
always, you know, wanted to helpothers and I've always dreamt
of being an author and I'vespoken before, but I want to do
(54:32):
more author speaker.
So because you're on this,you're on the newsletter, you
get exclusive access.
It goes both ways.
Now you access.
But yes, you know, one dayreally hope this too for you,
carolyn.
I hope you write your book oneday.
Speaker 2 (54:50):
I, you know there's a lot of big things coming up in
the future.
So you know, I I want to spreadthe message of growth, like we
have to grow through our pain.
Like we can't experience thepain and just like toss it aside
, like we have to be in thetrenches of it.
(55:12):
And when you're growing throughthat pain, you know, slowly the
layers peel back and you canuse your voice and not have to
feel like you're silencedanymore.
So you know, a book might be inthe future.
You know I am a writer, sothere's definitely going to be
some stuff.
And you know this is just asmall portion of the story but
(55:36):
it is certainly like thecornerstone of a lot of things
that happened in my life and I'mso happy to be on this new
journey of speaking out andyou've just said the kindest
things to me and again, I'm justso appreciative.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Well, I appreciate you and you know I don't just
say kind things out justrandomly to anybody.
I speak what I mean, becauseI'm that type of person.
I don't do fake stuff at all.
Speaker 2 (56:08):
I really don't.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
If I don't like someone, I will show them.
I am my mother's daughterultimately, at the end of the
day, because my mom is like thatas much as she denies it when
she doesn't like someone.
Actually, I've been in roomsbefore where she doesn't like
someone.
Right, people were laughing onetime.
(56:31):
I was trying not to die and Ithink other people were trying
not to die.
But my mom will show you whatshe doesn't like you.
Yeah, I'm the same same.
Yeah, so it's like and I figuredyou know, because you're very
authentic and true to who youare.
I'm very, very authentic, trueto me and I don't do fake stuff.
So you know, I think that youknow, so I just want you to know
(56:56):
.
I'm so proud of you.
I want to thank you.
I once again acknowledge youhad many other platforms you
could have chosen from, but Iwant to thank you for choosing
On the Spectrum with Sonia.
I want to thank you for beinghere.
I want to thank you forchoosing On the Spectrum with
Sonia.
I want to thank you for beinghere.
I want to thank you for sharingyour story.
I want to thank you for givingus that exclusivity to Carolyn.
Speaker 2 (57:12):
Dreher.
Yes, and thank you so much forhaving me.
You guys can follow me onInstagram at Carolyn underscore
Dreher.
You can find me through Sonia'spage too.
Underscore dryer.
You can find me through Sonia'spage too, but that's where you
can stay up to date on what'sgoing to be up and coming.
(57:33):
So, thank you, sonia, Iappreciate you so much.
You're doing such amazingthings and I truly, truly, truly
, wish you like the most successand prosperity, and you're
truly an inspiration to me.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (57:51):
Thank you, carolyn.
And that wraps it up, folks,for this week's episode of On
the Spectrum with Sonia.
Once again, carolyn Dreher hereyou can find her on Instagram
on Carolyn underscore Jerry, youcould find her, um, and when
you go on her page, just be, uh,just be warned that you're
(58:12):
going to be just filled withlove and positivity on that page
.
Um, also, uh, please don'tforget to like and subscribe to
this podcast, leave a review andplease tune in for more
episodes.
Thank you.
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