October 18, 2024 • 54 mins
Have you ever felt trapped by societal expectations? Meet Dr. Seema Desai, one of the inspiring hosts of the "Happy and Human" podcast, who candidly shares her journey from a structured career in dentistry to embracing her true calling as a coach, podcast host where various topics with regard to mental heath are discussed , and author of the book "Connected: Discovering Your Inner Guides." "Connected:Discovering Your Inner Guides" is a powerful book that discusses enhancing relationships first from within and those outward. The book discusses emotions and how to embrace and navigate such emotions, and how can we build positivity from emotions that can cause us to feel stressed.
Seema's journey is not just about career transition but also a profound personal transformation. Seema discusses the lows of having postpartum depression and turning to Yoga. Unbeknownst, Yoga not only helped Seema during her lows, but also was the boost to helping Seema discover her real self that was awaiting for her embrace.
Are you ready for your transformation? Let Dr. Seema's Desai's story serve as your inspiration!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of On the Spectrum with Sonia, apodcast where we discuss autism
spectrum disorder, mentalhealth challenges and anyone
who's overcome any adversechallenges that can leave
everyone feeling inspired,connected and filled with hope.
Love, especially in a worldwhere we are constantly being
(00:26):
disconnected from one another inone way or another.
This is to bring connection,love, hope, inspiration and
togetherness.
And today we have a veryspecial guest, dr Seema Desai.
Seema has a podcast, happy andHuman, which is actually being
nominated for a listener'schoice for 2024 in the diversity
(00:48):
and inclusion podcast category.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
So, everyone.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I would strongly encourage you to tune in to her
podcast, happy and Human.
I was a guest on there and Iabsolutely love listening to her
episodes.
And here's the thing with it.
I know like they talk aboutlike talk about the South Asian
to support here, but anybodywho's even not South Asian can
relate to some of the stuff thatthey talk about.
(01:13):
But I absolutely loved it.
My favorite episode of all timewas when they talked about
going to a psychotherapist whowas Indian.
Believe me, I've been in thatsituation before.
So, but without further ado,let's please welcome Dr Seema
Desai.
Welcome here.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Oh my gosh, I'm so thrilled to be here, Sonia, I'm
such a huge fan and you knowyour episode of the Happy and
Human podcast was reallyincredible because you never
know, with social media, withpodcasting, it feels like you're
just screaming into the oceansometimes and you're wondering
like, is anyone hearing me?
But with your episode I had oneperson in particular reach out
(01:56):
and we've stayed in touch and itwas so humbling.
I think it made my year when Ithink about 2024 and
representing you know, people ofyour lived experience as a part
of who we are as a South Asiandiaspora and who we are as
(02:18):
valued contributing members ofsociety.
Oh my gosh, Just to make thisperson feel seen and heard.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
What a gift, and so I'm so thrilled to be able to be
on your show.
You know, I know you also livein Austin, correct?
And so, yes, and you are, youknow, and which is really an
interesting story that you haveand journey that you have,
because it's never so often wehear of people who went into
(02:58):
your line of work that you wentinto dentistry, dentistry and
now you are actually, you know,like you switched over in many
ways into another area of health, because dentistry let's not
forget that's health too andimportant, it's very important
for everyone you know, obviously, to keep up with that with
their dental work.
(03:18):
But you know you're alsotalking about, like, mental
health.
You're being a big advocate forthat.
So I kind of want you to sharewith us what was your journey
Like?
How did you get into dentistry?
When did you find out, like,more about your real self, your
real passion?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I mean, I'm going to try to be relatively brief
because I think everyone'sstories are so beautiful and
there's always so many nuances,but I think you know so many
were Indian.
Right, we have many nuances,but I think, um, you know so
many, we're Indian, right, wehave three choices doctor,
lawyer, engineer.
He picked law, medicine.
Um, you know, and I, honestly,it was, first of all, a lot of
(03:58):
the jobs that exist today didn'texist 20 years ago, right, like
social media manager, contentproducer, ai I can't even begin
to list, right.
So I feel like gosh, I feel oldsaying this, but back then
there were only so many thingsyou could do, right, and most of
(04:19):
it was pretty tangible.
Computers were a big thing, theinternet was a thing, but even
within that space, it's like,well, you're still an engineer,
you're still, you know, like itwas very concrete.
And so my perceived threeoptions I picked medicine and I
(04:40):
grew up around a bunch ofaunties and uncles that are
physicians and I just didn't.
It didn't resonate with me inmany ways because they were
working all the time Right, andit was like this badge of honor
to have your pager go off and oh, I'm on call and um, but yeah,
it was a very glamorous life,because I would hear them also
(05:01):
like say they went and boughttheir brand new Mercedes or they
went to Tiffany, or you know,and my parents are blue collar,
my dad is an auto mechanic.
He just retired from having hisown business in a very small
town in North Texas and so wedidn't have that abundance
(05:21):
growing up, the financialabundance growing up, and then I
would see all of the peoplearound us have like they would
take vacations, they would doall of these things, and so for
me it was just natural to belike well, why would I not want
that for myself?
I'll just go and be a doctor.
And you know, dentistry was agreat, um, I guess, way to split
(05:41):
the difference in that there'snot depending on what kind of
dentistry you do.
Generally speaking, there's nota lot of call, it's eight to
five.
What I thought dentistry waswas, you know, way different
than what it actually is.
And even though I shadoweddentists before deciding to go
to dental school and all ofthose things, you know to see
(06:04):
something and then to actuallyexperience it school and all of
those things um, you know, tosee something and then to
actually experience it that'stwo separate things.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
What did you have in your head that dentistry was
versus what you saw Like?
What was the difference?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Well, I was fortunate growing up to not have had any
cavities and, um, my teeth arenaturally straight, and so I
would go into the dentist and itwould be like, oh hi, and you
know, they would clean my teethand I would chat with the
hygienist and, um, and then Iwould leave.
Right, it's like I'll see youin six months and I'm thinking
like this is fun.
Um, and in my head I thoughtlike I loved dressing up, I
(06:42):
loved cute clothes.
I thought, oh, I can seepatients and look cute and you
know, see little kids and, andreally I love kids, and so just
the idea of helping them was wasreally special.
Um, and and so I?
What I thought was it was justvery coveted and I wasn't
(07:05):
actually thinking about what itmeant.
To be a procedural doctor isvery, very, very physically
taxing.
And when you're 20, whatsomething years old as most
people are, when they go intomedicine, you're kind of
invincible, right, like youthink you are invincible, you
(07:26):
don't have those aches and pains, but the more and more you kind
of spend your time physicallyfighting someone's tongue and
their lips and the strength oftheir head, like in this tiny
little space, it gets very, verytaxing on your back, your neck,
your shoulders.
A lot of colleagues have startedto retire quote unquote early
(07:49):
because they have a lot of nervepain and nerve damage and just
from not understanding how totake care of themselves.
This push, push, push mentalityright, it's a production-based
industry.
So the more you produce, themore money you make, and that's
just the truth of it.
The other way, the more youproduce, the more money you make
, and that's just the truth ofit.
(08:09):
The other way to look at it isthe more people you help.
So it just depends on whatintention you're taking behind
seeing the patients that you do.
But I just think that it wasway harder physically than I was
intending for it to be, wayharder.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I can only imagine.
You know, and I can definitelyrelate to the whole, the more
people you help, the more moneyyou produce, because that's how
mental health is.
You know, I'm a therapist nowand it's definitely you,
basically that eat what you kill.
Mentality, right, unfortunately.
That's how the jobs are andbecause mental health and in
(08:49):
many ways it's a good thing thatmental health is being brought
to the forefront, and I thinkthat that was one of the
blessings of COVID in some ways,even though as horrible as that
pandemic was, one of theblessings that came out of it is
that people startedacknowledging how important
mental health is.
But truth of the matter is nowit's come to a place where you
(09:10):
know what everyone's an armchairtherapist, the word you know.
Certain words are becoming usedlike buzzwords now, like the
weather, right, like and don'tget me wrong, I mean I do
believe that there arenarcissistic personality
disorders out there, but noweverything, you know just the
way that that word is beingthrown around narcissism, just
(09:30):
everything now.
And I feel like, becausethere's so much money in mental
health that people who are noteven professionals are taking
advantage at times.
And I know that this is areally controversial and hard
topic, hot topic at Press, butyou know, I just had to say it
because I feel like you knowthere are professionals who took
(09:51):
the time.
You know psychologists, mentalhealth counselors, school
therapists, school psychologists, neuropsychologists you know
what I mean Like all different,like clinical, like mental
health.
I'm just saying, like all thesepeople marriage counselors right
, they all went and did theirtime and went to school, you
know, and did the training and Ifeel like so many people are
(10:12):
now coming into the space andtrying to take advantage, not in
good ways.
You know, and I'm glad that youknow, at least you're upfront
and honest and one thing Iadmire about you is that at
least you're saying you knowwhat.
I am a dentist.
You know your podcast partner.
He says he is a lawyer, right.
So I mean, and you guys arevery honest about what you are
(10:34):
and you're not purporting to bethese armchair therapists, you
know, no, but we are certifiedcoaches Like we did still you
know, like we didn't, and I willbe the first to say I get very
maybe it's the medical side ofme, the liability side of like.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I'm very careful about broaching what is therapy,
because people's mental healthmatters, right, and so I want to
be very, very clear that youknow there's certain things I am
not qualified to do, that, um,you know there's certain things
I am not qualified to do, and,and you know so.
(11:09):
But but to your point, tony,like, anybody can be a coach, um
, and you can wake up tomorrowand say I'm going to be a coach
and nobody knows what that means.
Um, you know, nobody reallyunderstands, and I think that
there's a lot of violation ofwhat it means to get a coaching
session, to be a coach.
Um, you know, telling peoplewhat to do, giving them advice,
(11:32):
judging them that is notcoaching, it's not therapy,
right, those are safe spacesthat, unless you have the skills
and training to do, um, I feellike, of course, not everybody
that is um, not certified is a,is a bad coach, right, but but
(11:54):
there I do feel needs, there,there needs to be a little bit
more accountability in terms ofwhat you're calling yourself and
, to your point, being veryclear about how it is that you
help.
Right, because you help peoplein very, very different ways
than how I help.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Right and I feel like you know what and you're right,
so kind of going into this.
So how did you transition thenThen?
When did you start realizingthen that dentistry, you know,
kind of wasn't everything thatwas filling you up inside, like,
tell me about that journey, andwhat brought you to be a coach,
led you to coaching then?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, well, I think there's always.
It's kind of always like thestraw that broke the camel's
back, sort of thing.
Right, there's always theselittle microaggressions or micro
experiences that we may or maynot be conscious of, that suck
away our happiness.
Maybe we're just so hung up onthe title.
I know I was as much, as it onone hand pains me to say, but I
(12:54):
celebrate the growth, right, Iused to really be caught up in
the title, right, like I'm adoctor.
That's just how I grew up.
I was around people whobasically were like, well, if
you're a doctor, you have, andif you're not a doctor, you
don't, and and so, um, it's nottrue, of course, but that was
(13:16):
what I grew up with.
And so, um, you know, I thinkthere were a lot of times where
I felt I never asked thequestion duty on this time in
planet to to serve and make theworld better, that concept just
(13:53):
wasn't there.
And so I, you know, for a whileI was blaming, um, my
unhappiness on, oh well, it's,you know, the office that I'm at
.
Oh, it's the patients, oh, it'sthe office manager.
Oh, I know, it's because Ireally want to be a mom.
Right, that was another thingand I did want to be a mom.
(14:13):
But I just, I think that youknow, when you use something as
escapism, it doesn't always goas planned.
I think there are some negativerepercussions that come from
that as a result.
Nothing that you can'tnecessarily overcome, but
essentially I, you know, kind ofjust, I just didn't want to do
(14:36):
dentistry.
I didn't know what I would wantto do.
There was a lot of guilt aroundit.
There was a lot of you know, Ispent all this time and money,
and what does that mean?
If I'm not like I, my ego hadbecome so entwined in like I'm a
doctor, I'm something, I madesomething of myself.
So if I let that go now, whatam I?
Just somebody's wife, like it?
It was a hard time for my ego,for sure.
(15:01):
But essentially, when we had ourfirst child, I got hit in the
face with postpartum depression.
I didn't know that.
I was depressed.
I was really angry, reallyemotionally volatile.
I felt very isolated.
I was very sad.
I was in a very dark and lonelyplace.
(15:21):
I didn't have the tools that Ineeded to advocate for myself,
even with my husband, who Ichose to marry.
We we are, you know, like itwasn't one of those South Asian
situations where we didn'treally get along or that we
didn't love each other or wedidn't support each other.
No, I mean, I, I married mybest friend but he was just
(15:43):
drowning in his own, you know,like he had just finished
training, he had, um, he was hadhis boards coming up, he was in
his first quote unquote big boyjob and I was home alone with
this kid, you know, and, andthere were a lot of different
factors that led to, I think, mefeeling the way that I did and
I, it was easier for both of usto just sort of sweep it under
(16:05):
the rug and say, oh, I'm justtired, you know, it'll get
better once the kid gets older.
You know, um and I at the sametime found yoga, because when my
son was um, finally old enoughto go to Montessori school, we
put them in Montessori school,which was amazing because I got
(16:26):
to do the mom thing, but Ididn't feel guilty about leaving
him in, like it was a wonderfulspace.
He was learning, he was growing, you know, all of these
wonderful things that we justcouldn't provide at home, and so
I got the best of both worlds,but that, importantly, gave me
time to breathe and I startedtrying to take the yoga classes
(16:47):
while he was really little, likefive, six months old, and it
was just too hard, like I wouldfeel so guilty, not because I
didn't trust my husband to watchour son or anything, but I just
was breastfeeding exclusively,speeding exclusively.
I would have to like time myyoga class, just right.
You know all of these thingsand, um, the guilt is real, the
(17:09):
mom guilt is real, the pressureis real.
Um, even though it's not thechoices that I would have made
now, after having healed andafter having understood what it
means to take care of yourselfand why that's important, I
think I would have donedifferently.
But I, you know, I did the bestthat I could with what I had,
(17:29):
and I bring that up to say youknow, I was introduced to yoga
and that sort of what becamewhat was a?
Um, an escape for me or arelief for me?
I, I probably could have usedtherapy, but as South Asians, as
you know, we just don't resortto that at first.
(17:49):
And so yoga.
But yoga did the trick for me,it really saved my life and it
became a passion of mine andjust slowly, over time, I
started to see the differencebetween how I was feeling
physically, my mental state ofmind, the way I would see things
.
But the real big differencecame when I was feeling
physically my mental state ofmind, the way I would see things
.
But the real big differencecame when I was still very angry
, as a mother was still workingpart-time, I was quick to get
(18:16):
upset.
I had a lot of highexpectations.
Especially with children thatare so young, it's not
reasonable to have theexpectations that I had.
But I would just feel like youknow, this is not the kind of
mom I want to be.
And I finally got coaching formyself and it changed my life.
So, like it, I just.
(18:36):
Everything that I haveexperienced up until this point
is a direct result of medeciding to get help for myself
in the form of coaching.
Point is a direct result of medeciding to get help for myself
in the form of coaching andcontinuing my self-care with
yoga and things like that.
And so you know, long storyshort, I started to think
differently.
I started to understand how Iwas thinking.
It became more compassionateand empathetic.
(18:57):
I started to see my kids, myfamily, differently than how I
was seeing them.
I was viewing them with a lotof judgment and instead I
started viewing them with a lotof compassion and a lot of
curiosity and a lot of you know,just very different.
And my whole life changed.
Our whole family dynamicchanged when the pandemic hit.
(19:17):
Just before the pandemic hit, Idecided you know what life is
too short.
I don't want to continuepracticing dentistry.
I decided, you know what Lifeis too short.
I don't want to continuepracticing dentistry.
I think you can, it's fair tosay when you see a patient.
Right, there is a unspokencontractual trust.
That's there, right, they'reputting their wellbeing in your
(19:39):
hands.
And I just thought to myselfyou know what, if I'm not fully
in it, if I don't love beingthere, if I'm viewing this as
just another filling to you know, fill and get her done.
That's a violation of trust.
That is not okay.
And I cannot sleep at night.
(19:59):
And so, um, I was going to justpause till I figured out what I
wanted to do.
But then the pandemic hit and Icoaching school.
The opportunity to go tocoaching school landed in my lap
, and that was a greatinvestment.
Even if I never coached anotherperson a day in my life.
It had really changed how Icommunicated, how I thought, how
(20:20):
I saw things, you know, and onething led to another, and you
know, there came the book that Ipublished and the podcast and
all of these wonderful things,as a result of having to the
decision to pivot.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I want to just be the first to say that I am so proud
of you, you know, and from oneIndian American to another, okay
, and us being both firstgeneration, having walked
similar paths, because I feellike I was walking the yellow
brick road with you, because Ifelt like both the roads were
(20:57):
basically paved in front of us.
Our parents gave us the yellowbrick road and all we were
expected to do was put the redshoes on and walk and skip and
sing.
We're off to sing the see thewizard and be happy and joyful
that we have this path for us,that we were kind of, in many
ways, I think, psychologicallyI'm going to even say this
(21:19):
psychologically, course too,because you know what the way
that they would do this.
I don't know if this happenedto you or not, but before going
to law school, even when I wasan undergrad, my parents used to
come a lot to my campus to makesure I was studying, to make
sure I was following the yellowpath, that yellow brick road,
(21:41):
and then I was working in a lawoffice between the time, you
know.
So this was summer of, or thisstarted in 2005,.
Because I graduated December of04 from college, 2005, I
started working at this lawoffice and I did not end until I
started In summer of 2006,.
(22:04):
I quit that job because therewas this like online course
pre-online course that you couldtake to help you get in like
acclimated when you get into lawschool.
And I went to one of the worst.
I mean it's a very good school,don't get me wrong, but it was
one of my worst.
Second to what?
(22:25):
How I grew up, it was anotherworst chapter of my life and
when I look into that, I was nothappy there.
I was not feeling fulfilled,and I want to say that you know,
it's very brave to come out andsay that I'm not going to
follow this path anymore.
I'm going to take off the redshoes and I'm going to step off
(22:48):
the yellow brick road and gofind another road.
Right did that?
Because when I was living in NewYork, that's when things hit
for me.
That law is not my passion.
It was always to help others.
It was always, you know, to behonest, before I went into law,
I wanted to either be ajournalist or a therapist, and I
(23:11):
was always that type thatalways wanted to be on TV.
My dream job was like being ananchor like what you see on,
like the Today Show or to youknow, when I was growing up
there was, I used to lovewatching the journalists do
their work right and I waswatching those documentaries and
those you know specials andthings and I always knew I was
(23:34):
better at helping people.
I naturally was more of ahelper and the kind of like
listen, you know, give empathy,provide suggestions when
appropriate and self-disclosewhen appropriate.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
And so and I because I feel like even a certain
amount of self-disclosure youknow there are many therapists
who are against it.
I don't, I'm not against it.
I feel like sometimes it helpspeople connect with you more
because we connect at times,right.
So I mean, and so I just feellike, from one to another I just
want to say I'm proud of you.
I know it must not have beeneasy.
(24:08):
I know I was met withresistance when I was leaving
the legal field, lots ofresistance.
I can only imagine what thatmust've felt like for you to be,
you know, because it's not easyto change in general but to
also break cultural barrier likethat too.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah, I think, you know it's funny, people say that
it's like it's felt hard not toleave, like the, the.
I always knew that I didn't,like I didn't want to be there.
(24:47):
You know, I wanted, I wantedthe rainbow without the rain.
Basically, right, I wanted thetitle without having to do the
job, which that's not how theworld works.
And so of course, I was unhappyin, um, in, in, going to dental
school was really stressful.
I, like I just didn't care totalk about all the things you
(25:08):
know people would get reallyexcited about like, oh, this
procedure or that procedure, andI'm like it was my ego that was
getting the high right, like,oh, yeah, yeah, I did this, I
did this procedure, I did thesurgery, but it wasn't really
truly aligned.
And I just think back and Ireally don't know what it felt
(25:29):
like.
I think I just blocked it out.
I, when I say my ego wastalking like it was, there's a
lot of comparison of even myhusband's a physician, and so I
always felt like I had tomeasure up to him.
I always felt like I had toprove myself, um, and then he's
a guy, right, and he's like thishe's tall, he's got this big,
(25:53):
booming voice, he's got acommanding presence, and so I
always felt like I just had toprove myself.
And it was this constant likein my mind, this battle of like
I'm smart too, you need to seeit, you know.
And I think that that was whatwas really the hardest part was
(26:15):
letting go of what it meant tobe in that profession and not
have the answers.
I remember my son, um, rightbefore the pandemic, I, you know
, I'd taken my, my leave ofabsence from dentistry and he
would ask me at bedtime everysingle night.
He would be like well, mommy,what are you going to do if you
(26:37):
aren't?
Like, are you going to everpractice dentistry again?
Are you still a dentist, orwhat are you going to do?
Right, like, his littleeight-year-old mind just
couldn't understand.
Right, Like, what do you mean?
You don't?
Like I go up, I wake up and Igo to school.
I go to school.
That's what I do.
Like, what do you do when I?
You know.
And so it was a greatopportunity for him for me to
(26:59):
teach what it means to be, youknow, someone who chooses to
stay at home.
That it's, that is also a job.
You know all of those things.
But, yeah, I.
It's interesting that you bringup brave it.
Just it didn't feel brave, itfelt something else.
I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
You know, and everyone experiences it
differently.
And one thing that kept poppingup in my mind is, you know, in
the Bhagavad Gita there is thatphrase that says it's better to
do your own work perfectly thanto do somebody else's work
imperfectly.
Right, and I just kept thinkingof our stories and how, you
know, we both went intoprofessions.
We didn't feel in our heart,you know, we just wanted that
(27:43):
Because, like you, in many ways,you know, and how I grew up, I
can say, you know, I felt likegetting that law degree would
finally get me accepted andloved.
Okay, and that's not.
Oh, yes, and that's not the wayit works.
Because you know, you know, Iknow we grew up kind of
different, you know, and I, youknow, you know, I know we grew
up kind of different, you know,and I, you know, want to
(28:06):
acknowledge, you know, or youknow, this piece here.
But I did grow up in aphysician home here.
So both of my parents aredoctors, very well acclaimed my
parents, my mom, you know, sheactually studied in England,
which was unheard of for a woman, you know, in that generation
and my grandpa so my mom's dad,was a very forward progressive
man.
(28:26):
In that sense he was a wellabove his times, very smart.
You know he came out ofhomelessness twice, built
himself by the bootstraps typeof guy, right, and you know he.
So he sent my mom and all hersiblings to England, which was
unheard of.
And then when my mom gotmarried, my dad left and went
(28:50):
with her and then theyimmigrated to the States in the
late sixties when Kennedy openedthe door for immigrants to come
in.
Okay, so they lived in Bostonfirst and you know I saw like,
and then I also grew up in theMidwest because they moved to
Chicago in like the seventies.
We grew up in a suburb, youknow Northwest Indiana, outside
(29:10):
of Chicago, and I was justthinking, you know like I just
remember seeing how lionized myparents were, especially my dad,
you know being a man right Justhow lionized he was.
You know they were treated likethey were Hollywood celebs, or
Bollywood celebs in our case.
(29:32):
Right Like it's, just like.
You know it just very.
There was a lot that went intothat, developing that mentality
for me.
You know watching that from myparents and thinking, okay, well
, if I get a title, I willfinally be lionized too, I'll
finally get attention, I'llfinally be loved, I'll finally
be accepted.
(29:52):
But that's not how the worldworks.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
No, it's not, and I see it especially now with my
son in middle school.
He'll share things about hisfriends, or you know what
they're thinking, and and I tryto tell him you know, listen, it
doesn't matter.
Until you learn to be your ownbest friend, no amount of
(30:16):
friends will be enough.
You'll never have a friendthat's good enough You'll have.
You'll never have.
You know what you feel you want,because inside you're coming
from less right, you're comingfrom scarcity, and because of
the um, they've kind of both ofmy kids have kind of grown up in
this.
In a lot of the language thatthat coaches and therapists use
(30:39):
about you know self-worth andthings, and so it's not a new
concept for him, um, so he getsit and he sees it in other
people.
But but yeah, that was totallyit for us, right, we didn't have
that concept of what is it?
What do you mean Self-love?
What do you mean Compassion foryourself?
What do you mean being enoughfor yourself?
Um, that would have been tossedout the window, I think.
(31:01):
And I do want to say, though, Ithink, our parents it's so easy
for us to cast blame and belike they did this and they you
know, but I don't know what it'slike to immigrate from a
different country Not my culture, not my people, not my language
.
This was not 2024 where I couldhop on Amazon and order whatever
(31:25):
Indian you know ingredients.
I needed to arrive at my home.
I couldn't stream Bollywoodmovies wherever I was, like I
think there was.
There's a great deal moreacceptance compared to what was
of different cultures, differentfoods, and so they just didn't
(31:47):
know better.
I'm not in a place, necessarily, where I think I used to feel
like what the heck man, whywould you do that to somebody?
But when I consider it fromtheir viewpoint, that must have
been really, really, really hard.
And so you know what we stillachieved.
(32:08):
We still got what we needed.
We may not have gotten what wewanted, but we got what we
needed in order to then be thesource of healing for our own
selves.
Right, we chose to do the work.
I saw this quote.
I was at a retreat a few weeksago in California and, gosh,
this blew me away.
It said self-mastery is not theprivilege of the rich man, nor
(32:34):
the right of the poor man.
It is the choice of the wiseman, and I thought that that was
just really powerful, becausewe all have the power to choose.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
So beautifully said and also you know, going into
your point of just that wholeimmigration thing, let's not
forget about the trauma thatalso our parents grew up in with
the ruling of the British andonly getting independence in
1947 and being left, becausebasically when the British left
they're like okay, you figurethis out for yourself they were
(33:09):
left, all fighting like animals,basically for land.
For you know our own identity,sense of identity, power,
privilege, whatever right, likewe were left all fight right and
so, and you know to this day,you know my mom, you know when
(33:29):
she talks about partition shewould she will still start
crying.
You know, and you know, case inpoint, when I ran the New York
City half in 2022, I think itwas 2022.
Oh gosh, whatever year it was,the last time I ran the New York
City half, we went to an Indianrestaurant afterwards to
(33:54):
celebrate the race and it was atthe time I was just leaving a
toxic job, no-transcript.
(34:29):
And it's just so powerful andso real.
And you know, and I know thatthey did the best they they
could with what they had, and Ithink it's you made a very good
point that they were only doingwhat they knew how to do.
They didn't know, they onlywere, they were bringing in what
they knew.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Oh yeah, you know it's important for us to realize
, you know, we can't expectsomebody to give us what they
don't have exactly yeah, youknow, even growing up I would
hear about the partition and Iwould think like that's history
doesn't really apply to me and Idon't know what the universe is
trying to channel or help meunderstand, you know.
But I certainly have a verydifferent perspective now of how
(35:09):
, just how detrimental all ofthat was right.
Like we spent so much timeglamorizing.
Like we spent so much timeglamorizing like, oh, the queen
and the Western, you knowWestern clothes, western food,
what it means to have theAmerican dream, all of which you
know.
Yes, of course we're living itright.
(35:30):
I'm not going to take away fromthe countries that have offered
many opportunities for us asimmigrants, but, yeah, you don't
think about that.
You don't think about how,essentially, we had this
beautiful sandcastle and we hada beautiful educational system
and a beautiful you know, werethere shortcomings in society?
(35:52):
Absolutely Every society hasthat.
But we had something that was,you know, working, and then some
big bully comes and knocks itdown right and then continues to
knock it.
Then some big bully comes andknocks it down Right and then
continues to knock it down andknocks it down and knocks it
down and and then just says, allright, I'm done playing here,
I'm going to go home, and you'releft in the ruins of all the
sand and the muck and the youknow, expecting to be able to
(36:15):
build it back up when you don'thave the skills anymore to be
able to build.
You know that that glorifiedcivilization that existed before
the invasions from variouscountries and religions happened
.
That took thousands of years ofevolution to build and just
(36:37):
gotten in an instant right.
So it is hard to um to.
It's easy to forget howtraumatic that was, especially
for those who lived through it,and um had to flee overnight.
And I have friends, even tothis day, that you know are from
kashmir, and they're they're myage, they're they're our age,
(36:59):
sonia, and they, they, even,they have very, very visceral
reactions to the ideas of whatthey experienced in the 90s.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
So powerful, yes, and you know, and all of this helps
, I think, shape us to who weare.
You know, and in many ways youknow, we can kind of reframe our
way of thinking into you know,yes, our parents provided what
they were able to provide withwhat they had, but because of
(37:31):
how they were able to providewhat they had for us, it only
allowed us to provide forourselves a life we wanted,
exactly.
Yeah, so tell me a little bitnow.
You said you've written a bookand you, when you'd mentioned a
little bit about self-loveearlier and you know how you and
you talked about, like how thatwas tossed growing up, because
(37:55):
we never were taught from ourfamilies what self-love was, how
to have self-esteem, thatconcept of you should love
yourself, feel good aboutyourself, love who you are from
within.
That was never really justconcentrated on because it was
always about academics.
Uh, most often for people youknow, on the especially within
(38:16):
you know Indian culture than not, um, so how did you discover
self-love and self-esteem anddoing that work from within, and
what have you learned?
And then, why don't you tell usa little bit more about your
book?
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yeah Well, that's a great question because one has
directly to do with the otherright.
So, you know, I, when I firstgot coaching, is when I really
first started.
That was the first time I'dever heard the word self-love
and honestly, I'm still, yearslater, still discovering what
(38:58):
that looks and sounds and feelslike to me as I heal, it's
different right Every day.
Like to me, as I heal, it'sdifferent right Every day, um.
But you're so correct in thatwe never look inside and we're
always looking to, like you're.
We're hearing things like whydid you get a 96?
Like where are the other fourpoints?
You know where?
How, um, you know so-and-so gotinto their on the varsity
(39:23):
tennis team.
Like and they are going to bevaledictorian, like why can't
you?
You know X, y, z, or there's alot of pressure.
And so when you grow up in thisconcept of I'm not good enough,
or I'm good enough until thatcircumstance, I create that
circumstance and in thatcircumstance changes like the
(39:43):
weather, right, like nobodytells you that, that life
circumstances change.
It's obvious to me now, butwhen you're in the thick of it,
especially as a kid, you don'tunderstand that, um, or you
don't really understand whatthat means in terms of that.
So when I got coaching, I Isought out coaching for myself
(40:04):
because I was such an angry momand I just my mom was very angry
with me and I just didn't wantto continue that cycle.
It didn't feel good to be thekid in that relationship and I
didn't want my kids to feel theway that I used to feel, and so
(40:25):
that my coach was really thefirst one to introduce me to
this concept of self-love.
Um, now, he at that timeintroduced me to this concept of
um, he called them thesaboteurs and the sages.
Um, I think is what he calledthem, the sages, but it's
definitely the saboteurs, andessentially that can be traced
(40:50):
down to our own Vedic philosophy.
Right, we have the ahankara,the ego, and then the true self,
right, the highest, purest formof ourselves, which is light
and love and compassion and allof those wonderful, blissful
things.
And so when he started toexplain what, what the ego does
(41:14):
in a way of self-sabotage, um,that really cleared some stuff
up for me, right, it helped merecognize that I was, when I was
in my state of ego andunderstanding that that is what
actually, when we take actionfrom our ego and we think with
(41:36):
our ego.
And for those listeners who arenot clear on what that means,
it's very self-centered, right?
Like you, you fall to blaming,shaming, victimhood, all of
these things of I.
You know they're not listeningto me.
It's not fair.
They're not cooperating, nomatter what I do.
(41:56):
You know I can't, you know Ican't get them to do what I want
.
They don't listen, they don'tcooperate, I'm not getting what
I want.
This always happens to me.
Um, competition, comparison, allof those things are based in
ego and that's what creates thestress, right?
So, um, there's, conversely,the other side of the coin,
(42:17):
which is the, the self-love thatthe highest you know, your,
your atman, your brahman, yourrealized self, whatever you want
to call it, your inner knowing,your intuition, depending on
what belief system you come from.
And so just learning aboutthose two concepts as it
(42:38):
actually applies to me in reallife, understanding how that was
making me angry and that it wasa choice to be angry and that I
actually had other ways to lookat the situation, um, and not
get angry and actually feelconnection and understanding
(42:59):
instead of anger and punishment.
It was just life-changing andpunishment.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
it was just life-changing.
Life-changing Sure, you know,and it seems like it was a very
like educational yettransformational thing for you
to hear, to process, to developthose concepts between what is
thinking from ego versus thatelevated state where you can
look at things in a differentway.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Yeah, it was, it was huge.
And you, you know, again, it'seasy to paint the ego as bad or
wrong, but it's not, it's.
It's rooted as you know I mean,sonia, you're, you're the
expert here it's rooted inself-protection.
It's rooted inself-preservation right, it's
(43:51):
why we're alive today.
Is it kept?
Our ancestors, you know, we'reable to very quickly judge am I
safe or am I not safe?
Is this right or is this wrong?
Does this feel good or doesthis not?
I mean, the ones that didn'thave that capacity were eaten by
the lions or, you know, sweptaway in the river because they
went out swimming and didn'thave that sense of safety and
what.
You know where the risks wereappropriate to take and where
they weren't, and so I think wejust have generations of trauma.
(44:16):
Like you know, for us as SouthAsians there's colonial, you
know colonialism and thepartition and all of these other
things, as well as just howpatriarchal our culture can be.
Anyway, all that to say, Istarted learning about these
concepts and then the pandemichit and you know, I wanted, I
(44:43):
told the kids, I said okay,we're home together.
It'll be a lot of time where Ipotentially could get really
feel I didn't want to spend mywhole time get being angry,
right, or yelling or screamingor anything.
And so I said I know I'm goingto tell the kids, um, I'm going
to ask them to help be myaccountability partners, right?
(45:04):
So I gave them this structure,the language that was age
appropriate, um, to help themunderstand what it means to be
um.
In my book I call it the guardstate because it's protective,
right, it's not, it can sabotage, but it's not trying to
sabotage, it's trying to protect, right, like like a little
puppy dog trying to sabotage.
(45:26):
It's trying to protect, right,like like a little puppy dog.
Um, you know, when you think,oh, when you are having that
need to blame or shame or orfeel embarrassed, it's, it's
protective, and so I call it theguards.
So I gave him this language ofthe guards versus the guides, um
, you know, always knowing theright thing to do, that's best
for everybody, not just foryourself, and I totally thought
(45:49):
that it would just be for me.
It was selfish in that, notselfish, but it was self-serving
in that I needed to keep myselfin check, given that we were
all in this same house in thepandemic.
Well, kids are fantastic.
Their brains take things andthey internalize them and then
they make them work for themRight.
(46:09):
And so during the pandemic, wethat's what was really magical
was they had so much practicerecognizing when not only I was
in that guard state, but whendad was in guard state, when
they were in guard state witheach other and then with
themselves, and, um, you know,we would hear things like a
(46:30):
crash upstairs or, uh, you knowthe beginnings of a, of a
scuffle, and we would hear theother one go I see that your
guard is talking like let's takesome breaths together.
Or I know that really wasn'tabout me, but can we hug, like
can we try again?
Um, my kids were five and eightat the time.
(46:55):
They're not, you know, like thisis nothing that my kids are.
I think they're special becausethey're my kids, of course, but
, like, my point is there,there's nothing about them
that's different than anotherchild.
Like this is completelyaccessible.
And so I thought, wow,everybody deserves this.
And I think the universe justsort of heard that.
(47:16):
And I had a friend at the timewho had published a book
recently and I was thinking like, oh, that would be cool to do
one day.
And, lo and behold, I had apublishing house over in the UK
reach out and say we'd reallylove to do a book with you, um,
cause I had been active onsocial media and things like
that.
And so they basically were likeI pitched them this idea of
(47:39):
navigating emotion and, um,really it is self-love, right,
it is understanding yourself.
That allows you then to createbetter in life, right, it allows
you to surf those waves and notget knocked down by them, but
(47:59):
just sort of navigate them withease.
And so I um, it was very, veryfortunate.
The book came out in 2022 andthe illustrator, james Belans,
did a fantastic job, um,illustrating, and I always tell
people it's called connecteddiscovering your inner guides.
It's available on Amazon, um,but really it's.
It's for anyone um ages, I sayeight to 80, you could go
(48:24):
younger, depending on your kiddoUm, but I it's really meant to
be a resource.
It's really meant to be.
How do I stop feeling thestress?
How can I build connectioninstead?
Um, how can I find meaninginstead?
And?
And all of these concepts thatyou know they're?
They're not mine.
(48:44):
Obviously, I learned them frommy coach, but as I've grown in
my own spiritual path, these areall things that are in the Gita
, right.
The difference is just thelanguage and it's made it
accessible in a different way.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Absolutely Well.
I am very excited to read yourbook and I would encourage
everybody read your book and Iwould encourage everybody.
If you can get a copy fromamazoncom, go and do it.
You know, seema, this has beensuch an absolute pleasure to
discuss.
You know your story with youand learn about you, and if you
(49:20):
could give words of inspirationto people right now, what would
it be?
Speaker 2 (49:29):
So my passion is helping people tap into their
intuition so they can stressless and enjoy life while still
outperforming the past versionsof themselves.
That's it lights me up insideto be able to help people do
that, and one of my favoriteways to do it is to help people
(49:50):
realize the power of theirbreath and their bodies.
Um, so there's a lot of.
You know, I love teaching theyoga classes in a very different
way than you might see in ayoga studio, um, but I think one
thing I would, I would say topeople is spend some time
(50:11):
recognizing how your breath isshowing up, especially in
difficult moments, versus whenyou are in um, an easy, fun
conversation, right, like youand I are chatting here.
It's fun, it's stress-free, mybreathing is very regular, um,
it's very easeful and, um, youknow, if I were to just sit, I
(50:32):
could probably feel the fullexpansion of my breath.
But if you and I were in anargument or having a time, you
know, trying to challenge, thenyour breath changes.
Your breath typically canbecome shorter, can become
shallower, can become more rapid, or some people just slow down
their breath to where they holdtheir breath.
(50:52):
They're not breathing, and Ithink learning to understand the
power of your breath is socritically important, not just
for your problem solving andyour critical thinking, but
really from a health standpoint.
This is growing up in dentalschool or not growing up, but
(51:13):
going to dental school.
I remember dissecting out thevagus nerve and being told like
this regulates breathing, thisregulates heart rate, this helps
with digestion yeah, but whatdoes that mean?
What is the power that youreally have?
It's through your breath, byyour breath, working on your
breath, noticing your breath,lengthening your breath.
(51:35):
When you're feeling stressed,you're actually toning that
vagus nerve and allowing,instead of those stress
chemicals, all of the feel goodchemicals to actually take place
.
You're keeping your immunesystem more healthy and
regulated.
You're keeping your sleep cyclemore healthy and regulated,
your hunger cycle, your I meaneverything.
(51:55):
And so I think you know whenyou're up against a challenge.
Ask yourself how would I handlethis if I were at peace and you
can use your breath to getthere.
And I have some lovelyresources on breathwork for
beginners.
It's called Calm in the Chaos.
It's an online course that'svery quick and a great resource
(52:16):
for breathwork and guidedmeditations.
There's also some stuff onYouTube and you know it just the
breath, the body.
All of that really, really isthe key to me.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
Yes, and so thank you for sharing those resources,
those tips.
If people needed to find you orwanted to find you to learn
more about your coachingbusiness or connect with you,
where can people find you?
Speaker 2 (52:48):
So I'm very active on Instagram as well as LinkedIn.
So, sonia, we can just dropthose, I guess, in the show
notes, but Instagram is probablythe easiest.
It's at drsemasi, and then Ialso have my website, which is
drsemasicom, and, yeah,everything is there.
Everything's on there.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Okay, Well, thank you so so much for being here.
If you enjoyed this, pleaserate and subscribe to my podcast
on Spectrum with Sonia.
Also, please check out SEMA,the Size podcast, Happy and
Human.
It is a very good podcast aswell, and once again, they are
(53:36):
being nominated for a hearingchoice award for 2024 under the
diversity and inclusion.
So please definitely check outthat podcast and support that
one as well.
And that's a wrap for thisepisode.
Please rate and review.
Also.
You can find me on subscribe tomy website for my upcoming
(53:59):
memoir on Dropped in the Maze atsonyakrishnachandcom Once again
, sonyakrishnachandcom you couldsubscribe to my newsletter and
where you will be giveninformation about the book
release, and also I do send outinformational newsletters
(54:19):
through there.
So if you don't want to missout, please subscribe.
And that will be all for today.
Please stay tuned for moreepisodes with On the Spectrum
with Sonia.
Thank you.
Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of On the Spectrum with Sonia, apodcast where we discuss autism
spectrum disorder, mentalhealth challenges and anyone
who's overcome any adversechallenges that can leave
everyone feeling inspired,connected and filled with hope.
Love, especially in a worldwhere we are constantly being
(00:26):
disconnected from one another inone way or another.
This is to bring connection,love, hope, inspiration and
togetherness.
And today we have a veryspecial guest, dr Seema Desai.
Seema has a podcast, happy andHuman, which is actually being
nominated for a listener'schoice for 2024 in the diversity
(00:48):
and inclusion podcast category.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
So, everyone.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I would strongly encourage you to tune in to her
podcast, happy and Human.
I was a guest on there and Iabsolutely love listening to her
episodes.
And here's the thing with it.
I know like they talk aboutlike talk about the South Asian
to support here, but anybodywho's even not South Asian can
relate to some of the stuff thatthey talk about.
(01:13):
But I absolutely loved it.
My favorite episode of all timewas when they talked about
going to a psychotherapist whowas Indian.
Believe me, I've been in thatsituation before.
So, but without further ado,let's please welcome Dr Seema
Desai.
Welcome here.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Oh my gosh, I'm so thrilled to be here, Sonia, I'm
such a huge fan and you knowyour episode of the Happy and
Human podcast was reallyincredible because you never
know, with social media, withpodcasting, it feels like you're
just screaming into the oceansometimes and you're wondering
like, is anyone hearing me?
But with your episode I had oneperson in particular reach out
(01:56):
and we've stayed in touch and itwas so humbling.
I think it made my year when Ithink about 2024 and
representing you know, people ofyour lived experience as a part
of who we are as a South Asiandiaspora and who we are as
(02:18):
valued contributing members ofsociety.
Oh my gosh, Just to make thisperson feel seen and heard.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
What a gift, and so I'm so thrilled to be able to be
on your show.
You know, I know you also livein Austin, correct?
And so, yes, and you are, youknow, and which is really an
interesting story that you haveand journey that you have,
because it's never so often wehear of people who went into
(02:58):
your line of work that you wentinto dentistry, dentistry and
now you are actually, you know,like you switched over in many
ways into another area of health, because dentistry let's not
forget that's health too andimportant, it's very important
for everyone you know, obviously, to keep up with that with
their dental work.
(03:18):
But you know you're alsotalking about, like, mental
health.
You're being a big advocate forthat.
So I kind of want you to sharewith us what was your journey
Like?
How did you get into dentistry?
When did you find out, like,more about your real self, your
real passion?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I mean, I'm going to try to be relatively brief
because I think everyone'sstories are so beautiful and
there's always so many nuances,but I think you know so many
were Indian.
Right, we have many nuances,but I think, um, you know so
many, we're Indian, right, wehave three choices doctor,
lawyer, engineer.
He picked law, medicine.
Um, you know, and I, honestly,it was, first of all, a lot of
(03:58):
the jobs that exist today didn'texist 20 years ago, right, like
social media manager, contentproducer, ai I can't even begin
to list, right.
So I feel like gosh, I feel oldsaying this, but back then
there were only so many thingsyou could do, right, and most of
(04:19):
it was pretty tangible.
Computers were a big thing, theinternet was a thing, but even
within that space, it's like,well, you're still an engineer,
you're still, you know, like itwas very concrete.
And so my perceived threeoptions I picked medicine and I
(04:40):
grew up around a bunch ofaunties and uncles that are
physicians and I just didn't.
It didn't resonate with me inmany ways because they were
working all the time Right, andit was like this badge of honor
to have your pager go off and oh, I'm on call and um, but yeah,
it was a very glamorous life,because I would hear them also
(05:01):
like say they went and boughttheir brand new Mercedes or they
went to Tiffany, or you know,and my parents are blue collar,
my dad is an auto mechanic.
He just retired from having hisown business in a very small
town in North Texas and so wedidn't have that abundance
(05:21):
growing up, the financialabundance growing up, and then I
would see all of the peoplearound us have like they would
take vacations, they would doall of these things, and so for
me it was just natural to belike well, why would I not want
that for myself?
I'll just go and be a doctor.
And you know, dentistry was agreat, um, I guess, way to split
(05:41):
the difference in that there'snot depending on what kind of
dentistry you do.
Generally speaking, there's nota lot of call, it's eight to
five.
What I thought dentistry waswas, you know, way different
than what it actually is.
And even though I shadoweddentists before deciding to go
to dental school and all ofthose things, you know to see
(06:04):
something and then to actuallyexperience it school and all of
those things um, you know, tosee something and then to
actually experience it that'stwo separate things.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
What did you have in your head that dentistry was
versus what you saw Like?
What was the difference?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Well, I was fortunate growing up to not have had any
cavities and, um, my teeth arenaturally straight, and so I
would go into the dentist and itwould be like, oh hi, and you
know, they would clean my teethand I would chat with the
hygienist and, um, and then Iwould leave.
Right, it's like I'll see youin six months and I'm thinking
like this is fun.
Um, and in my head I thoughtlike I loved dressing up, I
(06:42):
loved cute clothes.
I thought, oh, I can seepatients and look cute and you
know, see little kids and, andreally I love kids, and so just
the idea of helping them was wasreally special.
Um, and and so I?
What I thought was it was justvery coveted and I wasn't
(07:05):
actually thinking about what itmeant.
To be a procedural doctor isvery, very, very physically
taxing.
And when you're 20, whatsomething years old as most
people are, when they go intomedicine, you're kind of
invincible, right, like youthink you are invincible, you
(07:26):
don't have those aches and pains, but the more and more you kind
of spend your time physicallyfighting someone's tongue and
their lips and the strength oftheir head, like in this tiny
little space, it gets very, verytaxing on your back, your neck,
your shoulders.
A lot of colleagues have startedto retire quote unquote early
(07:49):
because they have a lot of nervepain and nerve damage and just
from not understanding how totake care of themselves.
This push, push, push mentalityright, it's a production-based
industry.
So the more you produce, themore money you make, and that's
just the truth of it.
The other way, the more youproduce, the more money you make
, and that's just the truth ofit.
(08:09):
The other way to look at it isthe more people you help.
So it just depends on whatintention you're taking behind
seeing the patients that you do.
But I just think that it wasway harder physically than I was
intending for it to be, wayharder.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I can only imagine.
You know, and I can definitelyrelate to the whole, the more
people you help, the more moneyyou produce, because that's how
mental health is.
You know, I'm a therapist nowand it's definitely you,
basically that eat what you kill.
Mentality, right, unfortunately.
That's how the jobs are andbecause mental health and in
(08:49):
many ways it's a good thing thatmental health is being brought
to the forefront, and I thinkthat that was one of the
blessings of COVID in some ways,even though as horrible as that
pandemic was, one of theblessings that came out of it is
that people startedacknowledging how important
mental health is.
But truth of the matter is nowit's come to a place where you
(09:10):
know what everyone's an armchairtherapist, the word you know.
Certain words are becoming usedlike buzzwords now, like the
weather, right, like and don'tget me wrong, I mean I do
believe that there arenarcissistic personality
disorders out there, but noweverything, you know just the
way that that word is beingthrown around narcissism, just
(09:30):
everything now.
And I feel like, becausethere's so much money in mental
health that people who are noteven professionals are taking
advantage at times.
And I know that this is areally controversial and hard
topic, hot topic at Press, butyou know, I just had to say it
because I feel like you knowthere are professionals who took
(09:51):
the time.
You know psychologists, mentalhealth counselors, school
therapists, school psychologists, neuropsychologists you know
what I mean Like all different,like clinical, like mental
health.
I'm just saying, like all thesepeople marriage counselors right
, they all went and did theirtime and went to school, you
know, and did the training and Ifeel like so many people are
(10:12):
now coming into the space andtrying to take advantage, not in
good ways.
You know, and I'm glad that youknow, at least you're upfront
and honest and one thing Iadmire about you is that at
least you're saying you knowwhat.
I am a dentist.
You know your podcast partner.
He says he is a lawyer, right.
So I mean, and you guys arevery honest about what you are
(10:34):
and you're not purporting to bethese armchair therapists, you
know, no, but we are certifiedcoaches Like we did still you
know, like we didn't, and I willbe the first to say I get very
maybe it's the medical side ofme, the liability side of like.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I'm very careful about broaching what is therapy,
because people's mental healthmatters, right, and so I want to
be very, very clear that youknow there's certain things I am
not qualified to do, that, um,you know there's certain things
I am not qualified to do, and,and you know so.
(11:09):
But but to your point, tony,like, anybody can be a coach, um
, and you can wake up tomorrowand say I'm going to be a coach
and nobody knows what that means.
Um, you know, nobody reallyunderstands, and I think that
there's a lot of violation ofwhat it means to get a coaching
session, to be a coach.
Um, you know, telling peoplewhat to do, giving them advice,
(11:32):
judging them that is notcoaching, it's not therapy,
right, those are safe spacesthat, unless you have the skills
and training to do, um, I feellike, of course, not everybody
that is um, not certified is a,is a bad coach, right, but but
(11:54):
there I do feel needs, there,there needs to be a little bit
more accountability in terms ofwhat you're calling yourself and
, to your point, being veryclear about how it is that you
help.
Right, because you help peoplein very, very different ways
than how I help.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Right and I feel like you know what and you're right,
so kind of going into this.
So how did you transition thenThen?
When did you start realizingthen that dentistry, you know,
kind of wasn't everything thatwas filling you up inside, like,
tell me about that journey, andwhat brought you to be a coach,
led you to coaching then?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, well, I think there's always.
It's kind of always like thestraw that broke the camel's
back, sort of thing.
Right, there's always theselittle microaggressions or micro
experiences that we may or maynot be conscious of, that suck
away our happiness.
Maybe we're just so hung up onthe title.
I know I was as much, as it onone hand pains me to say, but I
(12:54):
celebrate the growth, right, Iused to really be caught up in
the title, right, like I'm adoctor.
That's just how I grew up.
I was around people whobasically were like, well, if
you're a doctor, you have, andif you're not a doctor, you
don't, and and so, um, it's nottrue, of course, but that was
(13:16):
what I grew up with.
And so, um, you know, I thinkthere were a lot of times where
I felt I never asked thequestion duty on this time in
planet to to serve and make theworld better, that concept just
(13:53):
wasn't there.
And so I, you know, for a whileI was blaming, um, my
unhappiness on, oh well, it's,you know, the office that I'm at
.
Oh, it's the patients, oh, it'sthe office manager.
Oh, I know, it's because Ireally want to be a mom.
Right, that was another thingand I did want to be a mom.
(14:13):
But I just, I think that youknow, when you use something as
escapism, it doesn't always goas planned.
I think there are some negativerepercussions that come from
that as a result.
Nothing that you can'tnecessarily overcome, but
essentially I, you know, kind ofjust, I just didn't want to do
(14:36):
dentistry.
I didn't know what I would wantto do.
There was a lot of guilt aroundit.
There was a lot of you know, Ispent all this time and money,
and what does that mean?
If I'm not like I, my ego hadbecome so entwined in like I'm a
doctor, I'm something, I madesomething of myself.
So if I let that go now, whatam I?
Just somebody's wife, like it?
It was a hard time for my ego,for sure.
(15:01):
But essentially, when we had ourfirst child, I got hit in the
face with postpartum depression.
I didn't know that.
I was depressed.
I was really angry, reallyemotionally volatile.
I felt very isolated.
I was very sad.
I was in a very dark and lonelyplace.
(15:21):
I didn't have the tools that Ineeded to advocate for myself,
even with my husband, who Ichose to marry.
We we are, you know, like itwasn't one of those South Asian
situations where we didn'treally get along or that we
didn't love each other or wedidn't support each other.
No, I mean, I, I married mybest friend but he was just
(15:43):
drowning in his own, you know,like he had just finished
training, he had, um, he was hadhis boards coming up, he was in
his first quote unquote big boyjob and I was home alone with
this kid, you know, and, andthere were a lot of different
factors that led to, I think, mefeeling the way that I did and
I, it was easier for both of usto just sort of sweep it under
(16:05):
the rug and say, oh, I'm justtired, you know, it'll get
better once the kid gets older.
You know, um and I at the sametime found yoga, because when my
son was um, finally old enoughto go to Montessori school, we
put them in Montessori school,which was amazing because I got
(16:26):
to do the mom thing, but Ididn't feel guilty about leaving
him in, like it was a wonderfulspace.
He was learning, he was growing, you know, all of these
wonderful things that we justcouldn't provide at home, and so
I got the best of both worlds,but that, importantly, gave me
time to breathe and I startedtrying to take the yoga classes
(16:47):
while he was really little, likefive, six months old, and it
was just too hard, like I wouldfeel so guilty, not because I
didn't trust my husband to watchour son or anything, but I just
was breastfeeding exclusively,speeding exclusively.
I would have to like time myyoga class, just right.
You know all of these thingsand, um, the guilt is real, the
(17:09):
mom guilt is real, the pressureis real.
Um, even though it's not thechoices that I would have made
now, after having healed andafter having understood what it
means to take care of yourselfand why that's important, I
think I would have donedifferently.
But I, you know, I did the bestthat I could with what I had,
(17:29):
and I bring that up to say youknow, I was introduced to yoga
and that sort of what becamewhat was a?
Um, an escape for me or arelief for me?
I, I probably could have usedtherapy, but as South Asians, as
you know, we just don't resortto that at first.
(17:49):
And so yoga.
But yoga did the trick for me,it really saved my life and it
became a passion of mine andjust slowly, over time, I
started to see the differencebetween how I was feeling
physically, my mental state ofmind, the way I would see things
.
But the real big differencecame when I was feeling
physically my mental state ofmind, the way I would see things
.
But the real big differencecame when I was still very angry
, as a mother was still workingpart-time, I was quick to get
(18:16):
upset.
I had a lot of highexpectations.
Especially with children thatare so young, it's not
reasonable to have theexpectations that I had.
But I would just feel like youknow, this is not the kind of
mom I want to be.
And I finally got coaching formyself and it changed my life.
So, like it, I just.
(18:36):
Everything that I haveexperienced up until this point
is a direct result of medeciding to get help for myself
in the form of coaching.
Point is a direct result of medeciding to get help for myself
in the form of coaching andcontinuing my self-care with
yoga and things like that.
And so you know, long storyshort, I started to think
differently.
I started to understand how Iwas thinking.
It became more compassionateand empathetic.
(18:57):
I started to see my kids, myfamily, differently than how I
was seeing them.
I was viewing them with a lotof judgment and instead I
started viewing them with a lotof compassion and a lot of
curiosity and a lot of you know,just very different.
And my whole life changed.
Our whole family dynamicchanged when the pandemic hit.
(19:17):
Just before the pandemic hit, Idecided you know what life is
too short.
I don't want to continuepracticing dentistry.
I decided, you know what Lifeis too short.
I don't want to continuepracticing dentistry.
I think you can, it's fair tosay when you see a patient.
Right, there is a unspokencontractual trust.
That's there, right, they'reputting their wellbeing in your
(19:39):
hands.
And I just thought to myselfyou know what, if I'm not fully
in it, if I don't love beingthere, if I'm viewing this as
just another filling to you know, fill and get her done.
That's a violation of trust.
That is not okay.
And I cannot sleep at night.
(19:59):
And so, um, I was going to justpause till I figured out what I
wanted to do.
But then the pandemic hit and Icoaching school.
The opportunity to go tocoaching school landed in my lap
, and that was a greatinvestment.
Even if I never coached anotherperson a day in my life.
It had really changed how Icommunicated, how I thought, how
(20:20):
I saw things, you know, and onething led to another, and you
know, there came the book that Ipublished and the podcast and
all of these wonderful things,as a result of having to the
decision to pivot.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I want to just be the first to say that I am so proud
of you, you know, and from oneIndian American to another, okay
, and us being both firstgeneration, having walked
similar paths, because I feellike I was walking the yellow
brick road with you, because Ifelt like both the roads were
(20:57):
basically paved in front of us.
Our parents gave us the yellowbrick road and all we were
expected to do was put the redshoes on and walk and skip and
sing.
We're off to sing the see thewizard and be happy and joyful
that we have this path for us,that we were kind of, in many
ways, I think, psychologicallyI'm going to even say this
(21:19):
psychologically, course too,because you know what the way
that they would do this.
I don't know if this happenedto you or not, but before going
to law school, even when I wasan undergrad, my parents used to
come a lot to my campus to makesure I was studying, to make
sure I was following the yellowpath, that yellow brick road,
(21:41):
and then I was working in a lawoffice between the time, you
know.
So this was summer of, or thisstarted in 2005,.
Because I graduated December of04 from college, 2005, I
started working at this lawoffice and I did not end until I
started In summer of 2006,.
(22:04):
I quit that job because therewas this like online course
pre-online course that you couldtake to help you get in like
acclimated when you get into lawschool.
And I went to one of the worst.
I mean it's a very good school,don't get me wrong, but it was
one of my worst.
Second to what?
(22:25):
How I grew up, it was anotherworst chapter of my life and
when I look into that, I was nothappy there.
I was not feeling fulfilled,and I want to say that you know,
it's very brave to come out andsay that I'm not going to
follow this path anymore.
I'm going to take off the redshoes and I'm going to step off
(22:48):
the yellow brick road and gofind another road.
Right did that?
Because when I was living in NewYork, that's when things hit
for me.
That law is not my passion.
It was always to help others.
It was always, you know, to behonest, before I went into law,
I wanted to either be ajournalist or a therapist, and I
(23:11):
was always that type thatalways wanted to be on TV.
My dream job was like being ananchor like what you see on,
like the Today Show or to youknow, when I was growing up
there was, I used to lovewatching the journalists do
their work right and I waswatching those documentaries and
those you know specials andthings and I always knew I was
(23:34):
better at helping people.
I naturally was more of ahelper and the kind of like
listen, you know, give empathy,provide suggestions when
appropriate and self-disclosewhen appropriate.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
And so and I because I feel like even a certain
amount of self-disclosure youknow there are many therapists
who are against it.
I don't, I'm not against it.
I feel like sometimes it helpspeople connect with you more
because we connect at times,right.
So I mean, and so I just feellike, from one to another I just
want to say I'm proud of you.
I know it must not have beeneasy.
(24:08):
I know I was met withresistance when I was leaving
the legal field, lots ofresistance.
I can only imagine what thatmust've felt like for you to be,
you know, because it's not easyto change in general but to
also break cultural barrier likethat too.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah, I think, you know it's funny, people say that
it's like it's felt hard not toleave, like the, the.
I always knew that I didn't,like I didn't want to be there.
(24:47):
You know, I wanted, I wantedthe rainbow without the rain.
Basically, right, I wanted thetitle without having to do the
job, which that's not how theworld works.
And so of course, I was unhappyin, um, in, in, going to dental
school was really stressful.
I, like I just didn't care totalk about all the things you
(25:08):
know people would get reallyexcited about like, oh, this
procedure or that procedure, andI'm like it was my ego that was
getting the high right, like,oh, yeah, yeah, I did this, I
did this procedure, I did thesurgery, but it wasn't really
truly aligned.
And I just think back and Ireally don't know what it felt
(25:29):
like.
I think I just blocked it out.
I, when I say my ego wastalking like it was, there's a
lot of comparison of even myhusband's a physician, and so I
always felt like I had tomeasure up to him.
I always felt like I had toprove myself, um, and then he's
a guy, right, and he's like thishe's tall, he's got this big,
(25:53):
booming voice, he's got acommanding presence, and so I
always felt like I just had toprove myself.
And it was this constant likein my mind, this battle of like
I'm smart too, you need to seeit, you know.
And I think that that was whatwas really the hardest part was
(26:15):
letting go of what it meant tobe in that profession and not
have the answers.
I remember my son, um, rightbefore the pandemic, I, you know
, I'd taken my, my leave ofabsence from dentistry and he
would ask me at bedtime everysingle night.
He would be like well, mommy,what are you going to do if you
(26:37):
aren't?
Like, are you going to everpractice dentistry again?
Are you still a dentist, orwhat are you going to do?
Right, like, his littleeight-year-old mind just
couldn't understand.
Right, Like, what do you mean?
You don't?
Like I go up, I wake up and Igo to school.
I go to school.
That's what I do.
Like, what do you do when I?
You know.
And so it was a greatopportunity for him for me to
(26:59):
teach what it means to be, youknow, someone who chooses to
stay at home.
That it's, that is also a job.
You know all of those things.
But, yeah, I.
It's interesting that you bringup brave it.
Just it didn't feel brave, itfelt something else.
I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
You know, and everyone experiences it
differently.
And one thing that kept poppingup in my mind is, you know, in
the Bhagavad Gita there is thatphrase that says it's better to
do your own work perfectly thanto do somebody else's work
imperfectly.
Right, and I just kept thinkingof our stories and how, you
know, we both went intoprofessions.
We didn't feel in our heart,you know, we just wanted that
(27:43):
Because, like you, in many ways,you know, and how I grew up, I
can say, you know, I felt likegetting that law degree would
finally get me accepted andloved.
Okay, and that's not.
Oh, yes, and that's not the wayit works.
Because you know, you know, Iknow we grew up kind of
different, you know, and I, youknow, you know, I know we grew
up kind of different, you know,and I, you know, want to
(28:06):
acknowledge, you know, or youknow, this piece here.
But I did grow up in aphysician home here.
So both of my parents aredoctors, very well acclaimed my
parents, my mom, you know, sheactually studied in England,
which was unheard of for a woman, you know, in that generation
and my grandpa so my mom's dad,was a very forward progressive
man.
(28:26):
In that sense he was a wellabove his times, very smart.
You know he came out ofhomelessness twice, built
himself by the bootstraps typeof guy, right, and you know he.
So he sent my mom and all hersiblings to England, which was
unheard of.
And then when my mom gotmarried, my dad left and went
(28:50):
with her and then theyimmigrated to the States in the
late sixties when Kennedy openedthe door for immigrants to come
in.
Okay, so they lived in Bostonfirst and you know I saw like,
and then I also grew up in theMidwest because they moved to
Chicago in like the seventies.
We grew up in a suburb, youknow Northwest Indiana, outside
(29:10):
of Chicago, and I was justthinking, you know like I just
remember seeing how lionized myparents were, especially my dad,
you know being a man right Justhow lionized he was.
You know they were treated likethey were Hollywood celebs, or
Bollywood celebs in our case.
(29:32):
Right Like it's, just like.
You know it just very.
There was a lot that went intothat, developing that mentality
for me.
You know watching that from myparents and thinking, okay, well
, if I get a title, I willfinally be lionized too, I'll
finally get attention, I'llfinally be loved, I'll finally
be accepted.
(29:52):
But that's not how the worldworks.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
No, it's not, and I see it especially now with my
son in middle school.
He'll share things about hisfriends, or you know what
they're thinking, and and I tryto tell him you know, listen, it
doesn't matter.
Until you learn to be your ownbest friend, no amount of
(30:16):
friends will be enough.
You'll never have a friendthat's good enough You'll have.
You'll never have.
You know what you feel you want,because inside you're coming
from less right, you're comingfrom scarcity, and because of
the um, they've kind of both ofmy kids have kind of grown up in
this.
In a lot of the language thatthat coaches and therapists use
(30:39):
about you know self-worth andthings, and so it's not a new
concept for him, um, so he getsit and he sees it in other
people.
But but yeah, that was totallyit for us, right, we didn't have
that concept of what is it?
What do you mean Self-love?
What do you mean Compassion foryourself?
What do you mean being enoughfor yourself?
Um, that would have been tossedout the window, I think.
(31:01):
And I do want to say, though, Ithink, our parents it's so easy
for us to cast blame and belike they did this and they you
know, but I don't know what it'slike to immigrate from a
different country Not my culture, not my people, not my language
.
This was not 2024 where I couldhop on Amazon and order whatever
(31:25):
Indian you know ingredients.
I needed to arrive at my home.
I couldn't stream Bollywoodmovies wherever I was, like I
think there was.
There's a great deal moreacceptance compared to what was
of different cultures, differentfoods, and so they just didn't
(31:47):
know better.
I'm not in a place, necessarily, where I think I used to feel
like what the heck man, whywould you do that to somebody?
But when I consider it fromtheir viewpoint, that must have
been really, really, really hard.
And so you know what we stillachieved.
(32:08):
We still got what we needed.
We may not have gotten what wewanted, but we got what we
needed in order to then be thesource of healing for our own
selves.
Right, we chose to do the work.
I saw this quote.
I was at a retreat a few weeksago in California and, gosh,
this blew me away.
It said self-mastery is not theprivilege of the rich man, nor
(32:34):
the right of the poor man.
It is the choice of the wiseman, and I thought that that was
just really powerful, becausewe all have the power to choose.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
So beautifully said and also you know, going into
your point of just that wholeimmigration thing, let's not
forget about the trauma thatalso our parents grew up in with
the ruling of the British andonly getting independence in
1947 and being left, becausebasically when the British left
they're like okay, you figurethis out for yourself they were
(33:09):
left, all fighting like animals,basically for land.
For you know our own identity,sense of identity, power,
privilege, whatever right, likewe were left all fight right and
so, and you know to this day,you know my mom, you know when
(33:29):
she talks about partition shewould she will still start
crying.
You know, and you know, case inpoint, when I ran the New York
City half in 2022, I think itwas 2022.
Oh gosh, whatever year it was,the last time I ran the New York
City half, we went to an Indianrestaurant afterwards to
(33:54):
celebrate the race and it was atthe time I was just leaving a
toxic job, no-transcript.
(34:29):
And it's just so powerful andso real.
And you know, and I know thatthey did the best they they
could with what they had, and Ithink it's you made a very good
point that they were only doingwhat they knew how to do.
They didn't know, they onlywere, they were bringing in what
they knew.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Oh yeah, you know it's important for us to realize
, you know, we can't expectsomebody to give us what they
don't have exactly yeah, youknow, even growing up I would
hear about the partition and Iwould think like that's history
doesn't really apply to me and Idon't know what the universe is
trying to channel or help meunderstand, you know.
But I certainly have a verydifferent perspective now of how
(35:09):
, just how detrimental all ofthat was right.
Like we spent so much timeglamorizing.
Like we spent so much timeglamorizing like, oh, the queen
and the Western, you knowWestern clothes, western food,
what it means to have theAmerican dream, all of which you
know.
Yes, of course we're living itright.
(35:30):
I'm not going to take away fromthe countries that have offered
many opportunities for us asimmigrants, but, yeah, you don't
think about that.
You don't think about how,essentially, we had this
beautiful sandcastle and we hada beautiful educational system
and a beautiful you know, werethere shortcomings in society?
(35:52):
Absolutely Every society hasthat.
But we had something that was,you know, working, and then some
big bully comes and knocks itdown right and then continues to
knock it.
Then some big bully comes andknocks it down Right and then
continues to knock it down andknocks it down and knocks it
down and and then just says, allright, I'm done playing here,
I'm going to go home, and you'releft in the ruins of all the
sand and the muck and the youknow, expecting to be able to
(36:15):
build it back up when you don'thave the skills anymore to be
able to build.
You know that that glorifiedcivilization that existed before
the invasions from variouscountries and religions happened
.
That took thousands of years ofevolution to build and just
(36:37):
gotten in an instant right.
So it is hard to um to.
It's easy to forget howtraumatic that was, especially
for those who lived through it,and um had to flee overnight.
And I have friends, even tothis day, that you know are from
kashmir, and they're they're myage, they're they're our age,
(36:59):
sonia, and they, they, even,they have very, very visceral
reactions to the ideas of whatthey experienced in the 90s.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
So powerful, yes, and you know, and all of this helps
, I think, shape us to who weare.
You know, and in many ways youknow, we can kind of reframe our
way of thinking into you know,yes, our parents provided what
they were able to provide withwhat they had, but because of
(37:31):
how they were able to providewhat they had for us, it only
allowed us to provide forourselves a life we wanted,
exactly.
Yeah, so tell me a little bitnow.
You said you've written a bookand you, when you'd mentioned a
little bit about self-loveearlier and you know how you and
you talked about, like how thatwas tossed growing up, because
(37:55):
we never were taught from ourfamilies what self-love was, how
to have self-esteem, thatconcept of you should love
yourself, feel good aboutyourself, love who you are from
within.
That was never really justconcentrated on because it was
always about academics.
Uh, most often for people youknow, on the especially within
(38:16):
you know Indian culture than not, um, so how did you discover
self-love and self-esteem anddoing that work from within, and
what have you learned?
And then, why don't you tell usa little bit more about your
book?
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yeah Well, that's a great question because one has
directly to do with the otherright.
So, you know, I, when I firstgot coaching, is when I really
first started.
That was the first time I'dever heard the word self-love
and honestly, I'm still, yearslater, still discovering what
(38:58):
that looks and sounds and feelslike to me as I heal, it's
different right Every day.
Like to me, as I heal, it'sdifferent right Every day, um.
But you're so correct in thatwe never look inside and we're
always looking to, like you're.
We're hearing things like whydid you get a 96?
Like where are the other fourpoints?
You know where?
How, um, you know so-and-so gotinto their on the varsity
(39:23):
tennis team.
Like and they are going to bevaledictorian, like why can't
you?
You know X, y, z, or there's alot of pressure.
And so when you grow up in thisconcept of I'm not good enough,
or I'm good enough until thatcircumstance, I create that
circumstance and in thatcircumstance changes like the
(39:43):
weather, right, like nobodytells you that, that life
circumstances change.
It's obvious to me now, butwhen you're in the thick of it,
especially as a kid, you don'tunderstand that, um, or you
don't really understand whatthat means in terms of that.
So when I got coaching, I Isought out coaching for myself
(40:04):
because I was such an angry momand I just my mom was very angry
with me and I just didn't wantto continue that cycle.
It didn't feel good to be thekid in that relationship and I
didn't want my kids to feel theway that I used to feel, and so
(40:25):
that my coach was really thefirst one to introduce me to
this concept of self-love.
Um, now, he at that timeintroduced me to this concept of
um, he called them thesaboteurs and the sages.
Um, I think is what he calledthem, the sages, but it's
definitely the saboteurs, andessentially that can be traced
(40:50):
down to our own Vedic philosophy.
Right, we have the ahankara,the ego, and then the true self,
right, the highest, purest formof ourselves, which is light
and love and compassion and allof those wonderful, blissful
things.
And so when he started toexplain what, what the ego does
(41:14):
in a way of self-sabotage, um,that really cleared some stuff
up for me, right, it helped merecognize that I was, when I was
in my state of ego andunderstanding that that is what
actually, when we take actionfrom our ego and we think with
(41:36):
our ego.
And for those listeners who arenot clear on what that means,
it's very self-centered, right?
Like you, you fall to blaming,shaming, victimhood, all of
these things of I.
You know they're not listeningto me.
It's not fair.
They're not cooperating, nomatter what I do.
(41:56):
You know I can't, you know Ican't get them to do what I want
.
They don't listen, they don'tcooperate, I'm not getting what
I want.
This always happens to me.
Um, competition, comparison, allof those things are based in
ego and that's what creates thestress, right?
So, um, there's, conversely,the other side of the coin,
(42:17):
which is the, the self-love thatthe highest you know, your,
your atman, your brahman, yourrealized self, whatever you want
to call it, your inner knowing,your intuition, depending on
what belief system you come from.
And so just learning aboutthose two concepts as it
(42:38):
actually applies to me in reallife, understanding how that was
making me angry and that it wasa choice to be angry and that I
actually had other ways to lookat the situation, um, and not
get angry and actually feelconnection and understanding
(42:59):
instead of anger and punishment.
It was just life-changing andpunishment.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
it was just life-changing.
Life-changing Sure, you know,and it seems like it was a very
like educational yettransformational thing for you
to hear, to process, to developthose concepts between what is
thinking from ego versus thatelevated state where you can
look at things in a differentway.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Yeah, it was, it was huge.
And you, you know, again, it'seasy to paint the ego as bad or
wrong, but it's not, it's.
It's rooted as you know I mean,sonia, you're, you're the
expert here it's rooted inself-protection.
It's rooted inself-preservation right, it's
(43:51):
why we're alive today.
Is it kept?
Our ancestors, you know, we'reable to very quickly judge am I
safe or am I not safe?
Is this right or is this wrong?
Does this feel good or doesthis not?
I mean, the ones that didn'thave that capacity were eaten by
the lions or, you know, sweptaway in the river because they
went out swimming and didn'thave that sense of safety and
what.
You know where the risks wereappropriate to take and where
they weren't, and so I think wejust have generations of trauma.
(44:16):
Like you know, for us as SouthAsians there's colonial, you
know colonialism and thepartition and all of these other
things, as well as just howpatriarchal our culture can be.
Anyway, all that to say, Istarted learning about these
concepts and then the pandemichit and you know, I wanted, I
(44:43):
told the kids, I said okay,we're home together.
It'll be a lot of time where Ipotentially could get really
feel I didn't want to spend mywhole time get being angry,
right, or yelling or screamingor anything.
And so I said I know I'm goingto tell the kids, um, I'm going
to ask them to help be myaccountability partners, right?
(45:04):
So I gave them this structure,the language that was age
appropriate, um, to help themunderstand what it means to be
um.
In my book I call it the guardstate because it's protective,
right, it's not, it can sabotage, but it's not trying to
sabotage, it's trying to protect, right, like like a little
puppy dog trying to sabotage.
(45:26):
It's trying to protect, right,like like a little puppy dog.
Um, you know, when you think,oh, when you are having that
need to blame or shame or orfeel embarrassed, it's, it's
protective, and so I call it theguards.
So I gave him this language ofthe guards versus the guides, um
, you know, always knowing theright thing to do, that's best
for everybody, not just foryourself, and I totally thought
(45:49):
that it would just be for me.
It was selfish in that, notselfish, but it was self-serving
in that I needed to keep myselfin check, given that we were
all in this same house in thepandemic.
Well, kids are fantastic.
Their brains take things andthey internalize them and then
they make them work for themRight.
(46:09):
And so during the pandemic, wethat's what was really magical
was they had so much practicerecognizing when not only I was
in that guard state, but whendad was in guard state, when
they were in guard state witheach other and then with
themselves, and, um, you know,we would hear things like a
(46:30):
crash upstairs or, uh, you knowthe beginnings of a, of a
scuffle, and we would hear theother one go I see that your
guard is talking like let's takesome breaths together.
Or I know that really wasn'tabout me, but can we hug, like
can we try again?
Um, my kids were five and eightat the time.
(46:55):
They're not, you know, like thisis nothing that my kids are.
I think they're special becausethey're my kids, of course, but
, like, my point is there,there's nothing about them
that's different than anotherchild.
Like this is completelyaccessible.
And so I thought, wow,everybody deserves this.
And I think the universe justsort of heard that.
(47:16):
And I had a friend at the timewho had published a book
recently and I was thinking like, oh, that would be cool to do
one day.
And, lo and behold, I had apublishing house over in the UK
reach out and say we'd reallylove to do a book with you, um,
cause I had been active onsocial media and things like
that.
And so they basically were likeI pitched them this idea of
(47:39):
navigating emotion and, um,really it is self-love, right,
it is understanding yourself.
That allows you then to createbetter in life, right, it allows
you to surf those waves and notget knocked down by them, but
(47:59):
just sort of navigate them withease.
And so I um, it was very, veryfortunate.
The book came out in 2022 andthe illustrator, james Belans,
did a fantastic job, um,illustrating, and I always tell
people it's called connecteddiscovering your inner guides.
It's available on Amazon, um,but really it's.
It's for anyone um ages, I sayeight to 80, you could go
(48:24):
younger, depending on your kiddoUm, but I it's really meant to
be a resource.
It's really meant to be.
How do I stop feeling thestress?
How can I build connectioninstead?
Um, how can I find meaninginstead?
And?
And all of these concepts thatyou know they're?
They're not mine.
(48:44):
Obviously, I learned them frommy coach, but as I've grown in
my own spiritual path, these areall things that are in the Gita
, right.
The difference is just thelanguage and it's made it
accessible in a different way.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Absolutely Well.
I am very excited to read yourbook and I would encourage
everybody read your book and Iwould encourage everybody.
If you can get a copy fromamazoncom, go and do it.
You know, seema, this has beensuch an absolute pleasure to
discuss.
You know your story with youand learn about you, and if you
(49:20):
could give words of inspirationto people right now, what would
it be?
Speaker 2 (49:29):
So my passion is helping people tap into their
intuition so they can stressless and enjoy life while still
outperforming the past versionsof themselves.
That's it lights me up insideto be able to help people do
that, and one of my favoriteways to do it is to help people
(49:50):
realize the power of theirbreath and their bodies.
Um, so there's a lot of.
You know, I love teaching theyoga classes in a very different
way than you might see in ayoga studio, um, but I think one
thing I would, I would say topeople is spend some time
(50:11):
recognizing how your breath isshowing up, especially in
difficult moments, versus whenyou are in um, an easy, fun
conversation, right, like youand I are chatting here.
It's fun, it's stress-free, mybreathing is very regular, um,
it's very easeful and, um, youknow, if I were to just sit, I
(50:32):
could probably feel the fullexpansion of my breath.
But if you and I were in anargument or having a time, you
know, trying to challenge, thenyour breath changes.
Your breath typically canbecome shorter, can become
shallower, can become more rapid, or some people just slow down
their breath to where they holdtheir breath.
(50:52):
They're not breathing, and Ithink learning to understand the
power of your breath is socritically important, not just
for your problem solving andyour critical thinking, but
really from a health standpoint.
This is growing up in dentalschool or not growing up, but
(51:13):
going to dental school.
I remember dissecting out thevagus nerve and being told like
this regulates breathing, thisregulates heart rate, this helps
with digestion yeah, but whatdoes that mean?
What is the power that youreally have?
It's through your breath, byyour breath, working on your
breath, noticing your breath,lengthening your breath.
(51:35):
When you're feeling stressed,you're actually toning that
vagus nerve and allowing,instead of those stress
chemicals, all of the feel goodchemicals to actually take place
.
You're keeping your immunesystem more healthy and
regulated.
You're keeping your sleep cyclemore healthy and regulated,
your hunger cycle, your I meaneverything.
(51:55):
And so I think you know whenyou're up against a challenge.
Ask yourself how would I handlethis if I were at peace and you
can use your breath to getthere.
And I have some lovelyresources on breathwork for
beginners.
It's called Calm in the Chaos.
It's an online course that'svery quick and a great resource
(52:16):
for breathwork and guidedmeditations.
There's also some stuff onYouTube and you know it just the
breath, the body.
All of that really, really isthe key to me.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
Yes, and so thank you for sharing those resources,
those tips.
If people needed to find you orwanted to find you to learn
more about your coachingbusiness or connect with you,
where can people find you?
Speaker 2 (52:48):
So I'm very active on Instagram as well as LinkedIn.
So, sonia, we can just dropthose, I guess, in the show
notes, but Instagram is probablythe easiest.
It's at drsemasi, and then Ialso have my website, which is
drsemasicom, and, yeah,everything is there.
Everything's on there.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Okay, Well, thank you so so much for being here.
If you enjoyed this, pleaserate and subscribe to my podcast
on Spectrum with Sonia.
Also, please check out SEMA,the Size podcast, Happy and
Human.
It is a very good podcast aswell, and once again, they are
(53:36):
being nominated for a hearingchoice award for 2024 under the
diversity and inclusion.
So please definitely check outthat podcast and support that
one as well.
And that's a wrap for thisepisode.
Please rate and review.
Also.
You can find me on subscribe tomy website for my upcoming
(53:59):
memoir on Dropped in the Maze atsonyakrishnachandcom Once again
, sonyakrishnachandcom you couldsubscribe to my newsletter and
where you will be giveninformation about the book
release, and also I do send outinformational newsletters
(54:19):
through there.
So if you don't want to missout, please subscribe.
And that will be all for today.
Please stay tuned for moreepisodes with On the Spectrum
with Sonia.
Thank you.
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