June 17, 2025 • 34 mins
What if neurodivergence isn't just something to be accommodated, but a powerful gift that can transform leadership? Rita Ramakrishnan, a person with Autism Spectrum and ADHD, found strengths behind her diagnosis, and she used it to excel in executive leadership.
Amongst the strengths Rita found was her remarkable hunger for knowledge that stemmed with her voracious appetite of curiosity. Rita, unlike others who would make assumptions based off what they feel other people are thinking or feeling through social cues, doesn't make such assumptions and is not shy about asking others the questions she feels need to be asked. Rita is giving back to others, especially women who are neurodivergent by helping them succeed in the workplace by providing them the tools needed to set them up for success.
Currently pursuing a master's degree focused on neurodivergent leadership at the University of Pennsylvania, Rita represents the vanguard of a movement that's transforming how we think about cognitive diversity in the workplace. Connect with her at www.iksana.com to discover how embracing neurodivergence as a gift might unlock possibilities you never imagined.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of On the Spectrum with Soniapodcast, a podcast where we
discuss autism, mental healthchallenges and highlight
inspirational stories of anybodywho's overcome any adversity
and can leave our audiencefeeling encouraged, can leave
(00:29):
our audience feeling encouragedand inspired, hopeful and loved
and, most importantly, feel moreconnected in a world that
continuously tries to keep usdisconnected With us.
Today we have a very specialguest, rita Ramakrishnan.
She is based out of New YorkCity and Toronto.
She goes back and forth betweenthe two and she has a specialty
(00:50):
in helping neurodivergent women, especially be in their keep in
leadership positions.
She herself is diagnosed withADHD and autism spectrum and
she's here to share her storyabout her journey to diagnosis
(01:11):
and how she used her diagnosisas a way to help give back to
others and help other women,especially who are
neurodivergent.
So, without further ado, let'splease welcome Rita to the show.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Rita, thank you so much for having me.
It's a real honor to be hereWell thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Thank you, it's an honor for me to have you here
today.
So, rita, tell us a little bitabout your journey, about your.
You know just like what was itlike for you to kind of hone in
on you know, just like what wasit like for you to kind of hone
in on, you know neurodivergence,and what was, what's your
relationship to it.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I think you know my story is probably not too
dissimilar for a lot of,particularly women right now in
these days.
I was diagnosed with ADHD whenI was in university and it was
one of those diagnoses that onceit was labeled, once we had a
name for it, it sort ofretroactively made everything
make sense, right.
So all of those parts, all ofthose conversations with
(02:16):
teachers.
She's always distracted.
Is she bored in my class Likethis, feels disrespectful, all
of these little sort of things,behaviors that were associated
with either laziness orinattention or boredom or
whatnot.
They had a place right.
There's a rationality and Ithink the most important part is
(02:38):
it was a recognition that Iwasn't alone and that there were
options to me.
So that was sort of my firstexploration.
I came from a fairlyconservative Indian household,
so it's not something that wasnecessarily discussed or
explored that much within thecontext of my family, but as I
started educating myself, Istarted being able to educate my
family as well along the way.
(02:59):
So, hey, these are things thatyou don't understand about me.
This is a way for you tounderstand this about me.
Hey, these are things that youdon't understand about me.
This is a way for you tounderstand this about me.
And in doing so, I also builttaxonomy to educate the people
around me at work, my friends,things like that.
And then several years later Iwould actually just say quite a
bit later, more recently in thepast several years I was also
diagnosed as being on thespectrum.
(03:19):
So very sort of similar momentin time where I was working with
a psychiatrist and we were sortof talking about some of the
challenges that I was having inthe workplace, at home in
general, some of my patterns ofbehavior, and she said, you know
, wait, wait, wait, like let'sactually talk a little bit about
this because there are somesimilarities here to other cases
(03:41):
.
But you know, the diagnosticcriteria for what we assume as
autism or autism spectrumdisorder is constantly expanding
and we know more about it nowthan we did before and actually
a lot of these things areconsistent with that diagnostic
criteria.
So let's talk a little bitabout it.
Now, the thing about ASD is, youknow, in pathologizing there's
not a lot of treatment options.
It's not like you can take apill and solve the challenges
(04:03):
that are coming before you.
But again, it's a great way,it's a great label, to start
understanding what this means,the community that you're part
of, and actually start toconnect the dots on what this
could mean for you.
And because there are otherpeople that are having similar
challenges, it gives you acommunity in which to co-create
(04:24):
solutions together and toevaluate what's working for
other people and not.
So that's what really kickedoff my journey was my own
diagnoses, but as an executivecoach, as someone that was
working, you know, in the peopleleadership space, for me it was
also about acknowledging, youknow, the challenges.
I made it up to the executivetier and I felt like I had to
work, you know, five to 10 timesharder in some cases to succeed
(04:46):
at that level, and I knew thatwasn't just my story and so that
sort of sparked my interest inshifting my coaching intent and
focusing more on this hiddengeneration of women, of leaders
who are getting diagnosed now,and helping them not just make
sense of what this means forthem but find ways to harness
their strengths, the gifts thatcome with your neurodivergence,
while also addressing thechallenges.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
And you've done a really good job of really honing
into that piece of you knowtaking what you've been through
and how you know allowing it toalso to give back and help other
women.
But I just want to go back andkind of backtrack a little bit
here.
So you were diagnosed when youwere in college with ADHD and
(05:31):
you grew up in a family wherethis stuff was not talked about
much.
Let me ask you this, thoughlike when before you got the
autism diagnosis as well, whenyou were growing up, did you
notice that you felt maybedifferent from everybody else?
What was it like for you goingto school?
Did you notice that you feltmaybe different from everybody
else?
What was it like for you goingto school?
Where did you grow up?
And tell me a little bit, whatwas that like for you to grow up
(05:51):
and be in school and what wasit like with friends and
relationships and peers,teachers what was that like for
you?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
It was challenging.
It was really hard.
I grew up always feeling alittle bit like an outsider,
like a square peg in a roundhole, and I wasn't necessarily
sure about what that was relatedto.
So my story is a little bitdifferent.
I was born in Zambia.
My parents moved around a bit.
I was born in Zambia, moved toHong Kong when I was like one,
one and a half, and then stayedwhen I was I don't know nine,
(06:22):
and then we moved to Canada andthat's where I did the majority
of my schooling.
And so in each of these placesI kind of felt like an outsider,
but I wondered whether it wassomething related to my culture.
Do I just not understand theculture in which I'm seated or
situated right now?
Well, that didn't feel right.
Sisters were doing just fine.
You know there were reactionspeople would have to various
(06:45):
situations and stimuli and Ididn't necessarily have the same
reactions.
I didn't cry when everyonethought you needed to cry.
I didn't react or processinformation necessarily in the
same ways.
I wasn't paying attention tothe same things.
When we think aboutneurodivergence and it's
something that I study now aspart of my master's program but
at a fundamental core it's theway in which you're processing
(07:06):
inputs right.
So inputs are coming in.
As a neurodivergent person, theinputs that I'm paying
attention to and sourcing are alittle bit different.
The way I process those thingsare a little bit different and
the outputs are going to look alittle bit different, and I
think that's true for a lot offolks.
So I think for me I always felta little bit like an outsider,
and that was true in Hong Kong.
(07:26):
When we moved to Canada, Iwondered whether I was just too
Asian, like maybe I grew up inAsia and some of these cultural
norms are just things that Idon't understand.
And so you know, like many kids, many neurodivergent kids and
many neurodivergent girls inparticular I became the queen of
masking and mirroring.
So I would see what the populargirls would do and I would
emulate those behaviors.
I would see the conversationsor the conversational styles,
(07:49):
watched a lot of TV, I read alot of books and I would like
pull things that seemed to besuccessful for other people, and
that's how I sort of crafted acharacter that seemed to fit in,
and that was the way I couldmake friends, that was the way I
could integrate within acommunity, but it always felt
really false and inauthentic.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
What was it like for you when you were doing all the
masking?
You know like you were able toemulate behaviors and
conversations.
You were able to pull thingsfrom whether you were observing
people, whether it's fromlearning it through TV or books,
from whether you are observingpeople, whether it's from
learning it through TV or books.
What was?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
it like for you to mask, and how did people respond
to you when you were masking?
Well, it's, you know, it's oneof those things where is
validation right?
So when people are respondingpositively to that, you're like,
okay, this is who I need to be.
Then this is, you know, this isa character that I'm putting on
.
You become a little actress,and this is a character that I'm
putting on.
You become a little actress andthis is a character that I'm
putting on and this is who Ineed to be in this situation in
(08:52):
order to succeed or even justsurvive, right, children need
community.
Children need friends.
Right, you need to socialize.
That's part of your development.
And so I became a littlechameleon, and I think the
hardest part was sort ofisolating what my identity was
within that context and tryingto figure out who I am in
relation to all of these things.
And I don't know that I fullywas able to articulate that to
(09:14):
myself until I was in university, until I graduated university
and until I moved towardsadulthood, where I started able
to start separating.
Well, this is me, masking andmirroring, and this is me at my
core, and I will say it'sexhausting, right, like
neurodivergent people andneurodivergent women and
children.
They're tired, they're tired.
There's a reason that anxietydisorders and depression are so
(09:37):
common, right?
70% of folks who areneurodivergent experience some
type of anxiety disorder duringthe course of their life.
Neurodivergent folks are 30 to50% more likely to experience
depressive episodes thanneurotypical folks.
So there's a.
It all sort of takes a toll onyour body and on your mind, but
you kind of figure it out as asurvival instinct.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Hmm, right, and that you know, that definitely has.
You know it definitely takes atoll, you know, when you're
trying very hard to assimilateand you're trying hard to fit in
, and you're trying hard to beaccepted and understood, because
nobody, at the end of the day,nobody, wants to be alone.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
you know wants to be alone, you know, and into
adulthood too, like when wethink these are patterns that
continue into adulthood.
Right, when we think aboutneurodivergent women in the
workplace.
You're still trying to findthat community.
You're still trying to findyour tribe.
You're trying to succeed andoftentimes you're having to pull
together these personas thatothers you know through practice
(10:42):
.
You know others are going torespond to, and that's how you
succeed, right Is by putting onthis mask, by putting on this
little actress self and sayingthis is the version of me that
you're going to respond to.
This is how I'm going to getthe work done.
It will exhaust me, it'll be alittle bit harder, but we'll
make progress together.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Right, right, exactly , and you know what I feel like
it's different when you knowlike in a workplace right, you
know, I don't know, I felt, I'vealways felt like in a workplace
it's easier to mask because youare already assigned to a
specific task and you alreadyknow beforehand what the
expectations are.
Right, because it's not so free, flowing, right.
(11:19):
Whereas when you're aroundother people right, and you're
trying to be around, like, let'ssay, you have a lot of people
having different kinds ofconversations going on, you know
just figuring out how to keepit going, how to end it, um, you
know figuring where do I belongin social circles?
Right, and things like that.
I think that you know it's somuch easier to actually, when
(11:41):
you're in the workplace, be, youknow it's easier to mask.
In that sense it is and itisn't.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
And I would say, and in the leadership team level,
when you are a leader, you're ina position where you have to
mask and mirror, but you alsohave to make the decisions, and
those decisions impact theentire company.
And you have to predict howfolks are going to respond to
these decisions, and you canmake hyper-rational decisions
right.
You can make the things.
You can make the decisions thatare right for the business, the
(12:09):
stakeholders.
You can take the informationthat's coming to you from the
market and drive your businessforward.
But in terms of responding towhat is that going to mean for
my employees, what is that goingto mean for the larger context
of the organization or future,and how do I contextualize this
in a way that's going to makesense for folks?
That's a challenge, so it kindof follows you.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
It does.
And I mean, yeah, I mean I canalso say, like, even in the
mental health field and this issomething people don't talk
about enough, because I'm atherapist and I'll say this I've
worked in companies and jobswhere it's very much run like a
firm, in the sense of you knowmaking sure you're billing a lot
of hours, a certain amount ofclient hours.
(12:53):
You needed to meet clients youneeded to retain.
It was that expectation.
And the thing is, when you'reneurodivergent whether you're on
the autism spectrum, adhd,whatever you have right Well, I
know I can speak for're on theautism spectrum, adhd, whatever
you have right Well, I know Ican speak for being on the
spectrum.
You know you're not going to befor everyone.
And the thing is it's veryunique in what kind of clients
(13:14):
will come to you and stay withyou versus what will leave.
And there were some places thatdid not respond well to that at
all.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, and it's something that a lot of my
clients so I primarily I'm anexecutive coach, I primarily
work with neurodivergent leadersand executives and there is
this sense of okay, well, thisis how the business has always
operated and therefore I mustoperate in this way and these
are the clients I must targetand these are the ways of
working that I must fit into,without acknowledging that if
you make some slight adjustmentsto the ways of working, you can
(13:51):
actually deliver more value.
To the ways of working, you canactually deliver more value,
you can be more present, you canget to answers faster, you can
support your clients differentlyor better.
So it is a really big challengetrying to fit in with
organizational norms that havealways been taken for granted
without question.
And now you're going toquestion it and say what are
(14:13):
some small changes?
That's the goal.
Right Is what are some smallchanges I can make, either to my
day, to my routines or to ourcollective ways of working, so
that we're all at our best,including?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
myself positions, and I know you said that before you
had to work a lot harder thananybody, than everybody else.
So, like what drew you to thekind of job that you have right
now and like what led you there.
What was your journey like toget here?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah.
So I would say the lastcorporate role I had before I
started my own business, I wasthe chief people officer of a
technology company, so I ran HR.
Before that I had, yeah,leadership positions at various
tech companies.
I was a management consultant,the chief people officer of a
technology company, so I ran HR.
Before that.
I had leadership positions atvarious tech companies.
I was a management consultant,working at large firms for
several years.
And I will say there are uniquegifts and strengths that come
with my neurodivergence and Iknow that, one of which is my
(15:08):
information processing speed.
Another is pattern recognition.
I can look at large, disparatesets of data or facts that seem
unconnected and I can find theconnections and make it work and
sort of come up with theassertions that other people may
not see.
So you know, sort of harnessingthose gifts are how I made it
up.
It was through the quality ofwork, I will say, the
interactions with other peopleand the politics.
(15:30):
Like navigating organizationalpolitics has never been my sweet
spot.
It's been definitely a weaknessand certainly has hampered me,
and those are the areas whereI've had to work significantly
harder right and that's whereI've been reliant on really
strong mentors and relationshipsand the organization where I've
had to go and say like I don'tknow what I'm doing wrong here
or help me understand how Ipissed this person off by doing
(15:51):
this.
I thought I was doing my job,and so finding that sort of
network internally in theorganizations to help translate
right you sometimes need atranslation service.
But while there are thosechallenges and navigating those
challenges, I would sayharnessing my own gifts to be
able to drive value for theorganizations, for the teams
that I was in, is what helped memove upwards and outwards the
(16:14):
service orientation right.
Something that has always been afocus of mine is like how can I
serve and how can I give backto the people around me?
You know I'm generally prettyaware of motivations.
So, like understanding themotivations of those around me,
or I will also say like emotionsare not something I necessarily
take for granted and inpersonal situations I have to
(16:35):
lead with curiosity.
I have to because I can't makeassumptions and trust that those
assumptions are correct.
So operating from that place ofcuriosity, asking more
questions, has also been able togive me more data that other
people may make assumptionsabout and, again, take for
granted and act upon.
This gives me sort of that raw,unfiltered feeling.
It also means that the peoplearound me feel like they're
(16:56):
heard and that they're seen, andso that's a gift that comes
with the neurodivergence as well.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
And absolutely you know, like they say, that you
know, the more that you askquestions and the more that you
show that you're interestedright, the more that you
yourself can become interesting.
Actually, I heard this quotesomewhere that if you want to be
interesting, be interestedright, and I feel like um, I
(17:25):
think that was.
If I'm not mistaken, I thinkthat was a Dale Carnegie quote.
I'm not mistaken Um but um, butI feel like that's kind of
where you know the, you knowthis is where that power comes
into and this is what I thinkyou know.
It seems like you know, eventhough things are difficult, you
(17:45):
really found those gifts andyour curiosity and that your
hunger for knowledge and yourway that you interpret data
right, and the fact that youhave that hunger for knowledge
that helps you gain all thatdata that you're able to then
use to give back and help othersand make decisions that are
going to build everybody right Ithink that's just such a
(18:10):
powerful thing that you know youhave and that's, you know, one
of the things that makes you bewho you are and so good at your
job.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Thank you for saying that, but I think that's the
work right.
In a world in which oftentimesthe way we talk about
neurodivergences as a disabilityand something to be
accommodated in workplaces andin social situations, I think
there's a huge opportunity toshift the way we think and shift
the taxonomy and shift thelanguage.
It's not something to betolerated and I think if we take
(18:41):
a strengths-based approach tohow we navigate neurodivergence,
both at the individual leveland at an organizational level,
and say that there are uniquegifts that come with this.
So how might we unlock thosegifts?
How might we create space forneurodivergent individuals to
operate their strengths in a waythat's most natural to them, so
that it benefits them asindividuals, the organizations
(19:03):
that they support and thecommunities that they live in,
and then you know, then you canstart to have a conversation
around.
Okay, as we're harnessing thesegifts, there are obviously some
challenges.
We all have challenges, rightit's not just neurodivergence.
So how do we couch those, orwhat are the small tools or
strategies we can put into place, either as an again,
individuals or communities tosupport that?
But taking that strengths-basedapproach and changing the way
(19:26):
in which we discuss this, Ithink, gives us a greater
opportunity to support cognitivediversity in all of its forms
as we continue to learn more andmore about this work.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
No, absolutely, and you're right.
I mean, it's one of thosethings that I think.
Here's the thing it takespeople understanding number one,
that people who areneurodivergent have their own
talents and strengths and areable to perform the essential
functions of a job, but in adifferent way, Right, and it
(19:59):
takes people, you know, withopen minds, open hearts, right.
And also it takes, that, youknow, self-belief.
You know that all of us and I,you know I could speak for
myself on this one here.
I'm not going to, I don't wantto speak for everybody else, but
, you know, for me, in order topush through, I had to have a
(20:23):
crazy amount of self-belief that, hey, I can go out here and do
this.
You know, I can perform thistask, I can perform this job,
I'm good at this, Right.
And I had to, like, really learnto use my, even though things
are challenging, I had to usesome of that as also a
superpower, because it allowedme, right To then, you know,
(20:47):
become, you know, like a better,uh, like a podcast host.
It became like an author, youknow, therapist, right, All this
stuff.
This is what allowed me.
It's because of my autism, it'sbecause I have it right, Like
you know and I started, you knowand you know.
So it kind of goes into likekind of what you're saying is,
(21:09):
you know, changing that approachabout how we look at
neurodivergence and using thatas more of a strength based
approach?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, exactly Like what are.
You know, if you treat this asa gift, as a blessing, what
possibilities are created underthat lens?
What possibilities can youcreate for yourself and for
people become diagnosed?
Because we know that that'shappening every day.
(21:42):
More and more folks who flewunder the radar are getting
these diagnoses and trying tofigure out what it means for
them, that they realize that itis a gift and there's so much
good that comes from it andthere's so much good that can
continue to come from it andhelp them live fulfilling lives.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
In your experience now, like you said, like you, of
course, were able tocompartmentalize right being in
the workplace, being indifferent social settings, you
know how you had to maybeportray yourself or come across
for others in order toaccomplish certain things,
whether it be to get through thesocial interactions, whether it
(22:18):
be to get through the workday,get job done right.
What were you able to learnabout yourself authentically in
the process?
I mean, apart from you knowyou're very good at you know you
have a very good hunger forknowledge.
You're very good at taking dataand interpreting data.
You know from what you gather,from being interested in others,
(22:42):
to make decisions that are verywholesome.
What else have you learnedabout who?
You were there?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
are.
Yeah, I think I'm a lot moreempathetic than I've given
myself credit for in the yearspast.
I'm not the person that hears asad story and immediately
starts crying.
I'm not the person that goesinto a scary situation and
immediately starts panicking.
You know, one of the thingsthat comes from my
neurodivergence is the abilityto compartmentalize, pause and
delay an emotional reaction.
It's just something thatnaturally happens for many of us
(23:13):
.
Either our body shut down or wedelay it.
And you know, friends and familyhave always sort of joked about
my level of empathy.
But I will actually say whatI've noticed is because I'm not
responding with emotions, I'mactually able to see and notice
subtle cues.
So in a social situation, I canstart to see if someone's body
(23:34):
language is telling me thatthey're uncomfortable.
I can start to get curiousabout that.
I can go and check in on thatperson and advocate for that
person as necessary.
Sorry, we cut out for a second,did you still hear me?
Yeah, something challenging.
(24:02):
I can just hold that space forthem without coloring that
experience, with my own thoughts, my own feelings, my own
emotions, my own experiences.
And I think there's a uniquelevel of empathy and being able
to honor that space withoutresponding with my own personal
emotions.
That is actually truly valuable, and it's one of the things
that helps me in my role as apeople leader right In
supporting employees andsupporting the people around me.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
How do you deal with your overwhelm?
Because you know I'm justwondering, like you know it to
be in a leadership positionwhere you're dealing with people
all day.
You know I can only imagine itcan get taxing, especially
because it's a lot of work andenergy that you're putting in,
not only you know, just ingeneral in the work sense and
(24:49):
fulfilling obligations, duties,responsibilities, but also the
additional stuff that you takeinto account that many people
who may not be neurodivergentparticularly, may understand or
appreciate fully right thatlevel.
(25:09):
So how do you handle like yourdaily and how do you manage it?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, and here's the work.
Right, this is the work that Ido with myself, this is the work
that I do with my clients, butit's I'd say there's like a
couple of key strategies.
One is what I call the MVR, sothat's the minimum viable
routine.
So I have a list of things thatI've sort of made and that is
at a minimum.
No matter what every single daywhether I'm overwhelmed, sad,
(25:43):
overstimulated, not these arethe things that must get done,
and that's things like walkingmy dog and feeding him and
things like that.
So, as part of your MVR,identify things that can be
automated and taken care of foryou so that it's not impacted by
dysregulation or waves.
And then so I have automaticfeeders and things like that as
well.
So the MVR is sort ofsacrosanct.
The second component isself-awareness and
(26:04):
self-regulation, and so that isdoing a lot of somatic work and
seeking to understand what itlooks like when I'm dysregulated
, so whether it's due to sensoryoverwhelm or, you know, that
tends to be one of my biggesttriggers is sensory overwhelm or
too much happening all at once.
And I went to a conference nottoo long ago in Vegas, and that
(26:24):
is, you know, you have to gothrough the slot machines to get
to the actual conference and goto the sessions as sensory
overwhelm all the time.
So getting really in touch withyour body and knowing that, hey
, I'm approaching dysregulation,like my hands are starting to
shake, I can start to feel thatsort of tension in my chest, my
voice is starting to quiver.
So I know what this feels likefor me and I can understand the
(26:45):
physical triggers, becausesometimes mentally, logically,
you won't necessarily know.
You're moving to that space andthen coming up with your
strategies and they lookdifferent for everyone.
For me, I have a one and a twominute meditation practice.
So being able to step away forexactly 120 seconds, close my
eyes, engage in my practice,re-regulate my system, get my
(27:05):
heart rate down and then open myeyes and get back to it, that's
something I know.
If I'm sort of beyond a certainthreshold, I actually need to
exit that situation.
So coming up with those cuesagain and just letting folks
know hey, I actually need aminute, if you'll excuse me,
step outside, go for a walk, doI need do what I need to do?
Come back.
I also know like folks who areon the spectrum will notice
(27:26):
energy dips throughout the day.
So specific moments in timethroughout the day where you
start to feel that overwhelmcreep in.
For me that's typically around3 PM.
I always have this thing acrossmy calendar.
It's called TTFR.
It's tea time for Rita Um at 3PM.
Right around there almost everyday, I actually disappear for a
moment.
I have my own cup of herbal tea.
I have my own ritual in terms ofhow I decompress and then I can
(27:48):
come back to the world umunderstanding things that work
for you.
So, like vigorous exercise acertain number of times a week,
um has been shown to beextraordinarily helpful, not
just for folks who are on thespectrum, but especially for
folks who have ADHD.
Especially for folks who haveADHD, it's a really great
regulating mechanism, and soblock those times off, and
knowing when I get the most outof my workout might be in the
(28:09):
middle of the day blocking thosethings off.
So I would say know yourself,get really curious about
yourself and get to knowyourself really well.
Who are you in your bestmoments and who are you when
you're dysregulated.
How will you know when you'redysregulated, what are the
strategies, automations, tools,techniques that you can start to
employ and bake into yourcalendar and bake into your
(28:30):
routines so that it's automatic.
I'm starting to feel this.
This is a strategy I go towards.
This is how I navigate that.
This is how I check in, this ishow I resolve and move forward
check in.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
This is how I resolve and move forward and that's a
very important advice that you'dgive just now to really know
yourself when you aredysregulated, when you're at
your best moments, because it'sso true that you know what there
are things that people need todo, and know themselves well
enough to understand what theyneed to give themselves the
self-care that they need.
You know, and I definitely canrelate to you know, being
overwhelmed, especially likedon't get me wrong, I enjoy
(29:07):
going to conferences and all,but it can be very overwhelming.
And I remember when I went toactually I went to a conference
in February.
I had my book launch there and,honestly, by the time the whole
conference is over, I honestlyfelt burnt out.
I took a week off work.
I remember this and because Ispoke at the conference, I
(29:30):
launched the book there as welland and don't get me wrong, I
loved it Very good conference,but man, it felt like a social
hangover big time after theconference was over and it was
just overall, just like a verybig, like I needed that week to
just decompress, regroupeverything.
(29:52):
And so I get it.
You know it can be veryoverwhelming.
You know any event, big socialevents can get overwhelming too,
and it's like you know and Iknow for me.
You know like I I run a lot.
I run with autism speaks forthe marathon.
So I'll be in New York inNovember doing that, and then
you know I know like runninghelps me.
(30:13):
And, um, rocking, actually I doalso keep some fidgets with me,
and just sitting and rockingback and forth does the trick
for me.
I love to rock, I really do andfidget, and I have clients that
I work with who also love tofidget, and sometimes we'll just
fidget together in session andit's a lot of fun actually that
(30:35):
way and also it's a great way ofus connecting that way too.
So it's like you know.
But I really just do definitelyappreciate that advice that you
gave about really just knowingwho you are.
And you know, you know whatyour strengths are, you know
yourself well enough, you knowwhat you need every day, and so
(31:01):
you're and I heard you sayearlier now you are getting your
master's correct.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah, I'm doing a master's right now at the
University of Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Oh, excellent.
And what are you?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
getting your master's in.
It's an organizational dynamics, but my focus area is very much
in leadership and specificallyneurodivergent leadership.
Oh, excellent.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Excellent, specifically neurodivergent
leadership.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Oh, excellent, excellent, and Rita if people
wanted to come and find you.
Where can people reach out toyou at?
Yeah, so my business iswwwiksanacom.
(31:46):
I offer executive andleadership coaching for
neurodivergent leaders andcertainly some work working with
organizations and HR teams todrive more inclusive cultures,
but you can also just find me onLinkedIn and reach out anytime.
I love working with thiscommunity.
I love partnering with thiscommunity and meeting others
within it.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Excellent.
Well, it was really a pleasureto have you on here and thank
you for sharing your story.
Thank you for doing all thatyou do to give back, to help
other women and, you know,especially those with
neurodivergence Because reallywe need each other.
We really do, you know, andit's collectiveness that's going
(32:20):
to help us, not division, andso I really appreciate all that
you're doing for the community,all that you are, you know, all
that you've, you know you'rejust about all your passion,
everything to help and give back, and so I, from the bottom of
(32:41):
my heart, I thank you so muchfor all that.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Thank you, I really appreciate you having me on and,
um, I really enjoyed thisdiscussion.
Well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Thank you, I enjoyed it very much as well.
And that, my folks, is a wrapfor this episode of on the
spectrum with Sonia.
Remember, if you enjoy thiscontent, please review,
subscribe and share with yourfamily, with your friends.
(33:11):
Also, if you haven't already,my book dropped in a maze is
available on all major from allmajor retailers, book
distributors.
Also, as promised, I promisedyou I was going to read reviews
(33:31):
if you left a review.
So today's review that I'mgoing to read is from Nancy
Spano.
It says Sonia is a beacon forall that fall under her
footsteps, incredible author andfantastic book.
Thank you very much, nancy, forthat review.
Dropped in a maze, remember, ifyou purchase it, remember, and
(33:52):
you write a review, it'll beread on this podcast out loud.
Apart from that, just keeptuning in.
I'm going to keep sharing, keepsubscribing, reviewing, rating
and I will be coming with youwith more amazing episodes.
(34:13):
So take care.
Thank you so much, everyone andhave a amazing day.
Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of On the Spectrum with Soniapodcast, a podcast where we
discuss autism, mental healthchallenges and highlight
inspirational stories of anybodywho's overcome any adversity
and can leave our audiencefeeling encouraged, can leave
(00:29):
our audience feeling encouragedand inspired, hopeful and loved
and, most importantly, feel moreconnected in a world that
continuously tries to keep usdisconnected With us.
Today we have a very specialguest, rita Ramakrishnan.
She is based out of New YorkCity and Toronto.
She goes back and forth betweenthe two and she has a specialty
(00:50):
in helping neurodivergent women, especially be in their keep in
leadership positions.
She herself is diagnosed withADHD and autism spectrum and
she's here to share her storyabout her journey to diagnosis
(01:11):
and how she used her diagnosisas a way to help give back to
others and help other women,especially who are
neurodivergent.
So, without further ado, let'splease welcome Rita to the show.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Rita, thank you so much for having me.
It's a real honor to be hereWell thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Thank you, it's an honor for me to have you here
today.
So, rita, tell us a little bitabout your journey, about your.
You know just like what was itlike for you to kind of hone in
on you know, just like what wasit like for you to kind of hone
in on, you know neurodivergence,and what was, what's your
relationship to it.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I think you know my story is probably not too
dissimilar for a lot of,particularly women right now in
these days.
I was diagnosed with ADHD whenI was in university and it was
one of those diagnoses that onceit was labeled, once we had a
name for it, it sort ofretroactively made everything
make sense, right.
So all of those parts, all ofthose conversations with
(02:16):
teachers.
She's always distracted.
Is she bored in my class Likethis, feels disrespectful, all
of these little sort of things,behaviors that were associated
with either laziness orinattention or boredom or
whatnot.
They had a place right.
There's a rationality and Ithink the most important part is
(02:38):
it was a recognition that Iwasn't alone and that there were
options to me.
So that was sort of my firstexploration.
I came from a fairlyconservative Indian household,
so it's not something that wasnecessarily discussed or
explored that much within thecontext of my family, but as I
started educating myself, Istarted being able to educate my
family as well along the way.
(02:59):
So, hey, these are things thatyou don't understand about me.
This is a way for you tounderstand this about me.
Hey, these are things that youdon't understand about me.
This is a way for you tounderstand this about me.
And in doing so, I also builttaxonomy to educate the people
around me at work, my friends,things like that.
And then several years later Iwould actually just say quite a
bit later, more recently in thepast several years I was also
diagnosed as being on thespectrum.
(03:19):
So very sort of similar momentin time where I was working with
a psychiatrist and we were sortof talking about some of the
challenges that I was having inthe workplace, at home in
general, some of my patterns ofbehavior, and she said, you know
, wait, wait, wait, like let'sactually talk a little bit about
this because there are somesimilarities here to other cases
(03:41):
.
But you know, the diagnosticcriteria for what we assume as
autism or autism spectrumdisorder is constantly expanding
and we know more about it nowthan we did before and actually
a lot of these things areconsistent with that diagnostic
criteria.
So let's talk a little bitabout it.
Now, the thing about ASD is, youknow, in pathologizing there's
not a lot of treatment options.
It's not like you can take apill and solve the challenges
(04:03):
that are coming before you.
But again, it's a great way,it's a great label, to start
understanding what this means,the community that you're part
of, and actually start toconnect the dots on what this
could mean for you.
And because there are otherpeople that are having similar
challenges, it gives you acommunity in which to co-create
(04:24):
solutions together and toevaluate what's working for
other people and not.
So that's what really kickedoff my journey was my own
diagnoses, but as an executivecoach, as someone that was
working, you know, in the peopleleadership space, for me it was
also about acknowledging, youknow, the challenges.
I made it up to the executivetier and I felt like I had to
work, you know, five to 10 timesharder in some cases to succeed
(04:46):
at that level, and I knew thatwasn't just my story and so that
sort of sparked my interest inshifting my coaching intent and
focusing more on this hiddengeneration of women, of leaders
who are getting diagnosed now,and helping them not just make
sense of what this means forthem but find ways to harness
their strengths, the gifts thatcome with your neurodivergence,
while also addressing thechallenges.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
And you've done a really good job of really honing
into that piece of you knowtaking what you've been through
and how you know allowing it toalso to give back and help other
women.
But I just want to go back andkind of backtrack a little bit
here.
So you were diagnosed when youwere in college with ADHD and
(05:31):
you grew up in a family wherethis stuff was not talked about
much.
Let me ask you this, thoughlike when before you got the
autism diagnosis as well, whenyou were growing up, did you
notice that you felt maybedifferent from everybody else?
What was it like for you goingto school?
Did you notice that you feltmaybe different from everybody
else?
What was it like for you goingto school?
Where did you grow up?
And tell me a little bit, whatwas that like for you to grow up
(05:51):
and be in school and what wasit like with friends and
relationships and peers,teachers what was that like for
you?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
It was challenging.
It was really hard.
I grew up always feeling alittle bit like an outsider,
like a square peg in a roundhole, and I wasn't necessarily
sure about what that was relatedto.
So my story is a little bitdifferent.
I was born in Zambia.
My parents moved around a bit.
I was born in Zambia, moved toHong Kong when I was like one,
one and a half, and then stayedwhen I was I don't know nine,
(06:22):
and then we moved to Canada andthat's where I did the majority
of my schooling.
And so in each of these placesI kind of felt like an outsider,
but I wondered whether it wassomething related to my culture.
Do I just not understand theculture in which I'm seated or
situated right now?
Well, that didn't feel right.
Sisters were doing just fine.
You know there were reactionspeople would have to various
(06:45):
situations and stimuli and Ididn't necessarily have the same
reactions.
I didn't cry when everyonethought you needed to cry.
I didn't react or processinformation necessarily in the
same ways.
I wasn't paying attention tothe same things.
When we think aboutneurodivergence and it's
something that I study now aspart of my master's program but
at a fundamental core it's theway in which you're processing
(07:06):
inputs right.
So inputs are coming in.
As a neurodivergent person, theinputs that I'm paying
attention to and sourcing are alittle bit different.
The way I process those thingsare a little bit different and
the outputs are going to look alittle bit different, and I
think that's true for a lot offolks.
So I think for me I always felta little bit like an outsider,
and that was true in Hong Kong.
(07:26):
When we moved to Canada, Iwondered whether I was just too
Asian, like maybe I grew up inAsia and some of these cultural
norms are just things that Idon't understand.
And so you know, like many kids, many neurodivergent kids and
many neurodivergent girls inparticular I became the queen of
masking and mirroring.
So I would see what the populargirls would do and I would
emulate those behaviors.
I would see the conversationsor the conversational styles,
(07:49):
watched a lot of TV, I read alot of books and I would like
pull things that seemed to besuccessful for other people, and
that's how I sort of crafted acharacter that seemed to fit in,
and that was the way I couldmake friends, that was the way I
could integrate within acommunity, but it always felt
really false and inauthentic.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
What was it like for you when you were doing all the
masking?
You know like you were able toemulate behaviors and
conversations.
You were able to pull thingsfrom whether you were observing
people, whether it's fromlearning it through TV or books,
from whether you are observingpeople, whether it's from
learning it through TV or books.
What was?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
it like for you to mask, and how did people respond
to you when you were masking?
Well, it's, you know, it's oneof those things where is
validation right?
So when people are respondingpositively to that, you're like,
okay, this is who I need to be.
Then this is, you know, this isa character that I'm putting on
.
You become a little actress,and this is a character that I'm
putting on.
You become a little actress andthis is a character that I'm
putting on and this is who Ineed to be in this situation in
(08:52):
order to succeed or even justsurvive, right, children need
community.
Children need friends.
Right, you need to socialize.
That's part of your development.
And so I became a littlechameleon, and I think the
hardest part was sort ofisolating what my identity was
within that context and tryingto figure out who I am in
relation to all of these things.
And I don't know that I fullywas able to articulate that to
(09:14):
myself until I was in university, until I graduated university
and until I moved towardsadulthood, where I started able
to start separating.
Well, this is me, masking andmirroring, and this is me at my
core, and I will say it'sexhausting, right, like
neurodivergent people andneurodivergent women and
children.
They're tired, they're tired.
There's a reason that anxietydisorders and depression are so
(09:37):
common, right?
70% of folks who areneurodivergent experience some
type of anxiety disorder duringthe course of their life.
Neurodivergent folks are 30 to50% more likely to experience
depressive episodes thanneurotypical folks.
So there's a.
It all sort of takes a toll onyour body and on your mind, but
you kind of figure it out as asurvival instinct.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Hmm, right, and that you know, that definitely has.
You know it definitely takes atoll, you know, when you're
trying very hard to assimilateand you're trying hard to fit in
, and you're trying hard to beaccepted and understood, because
nobody, at the end of the day,nobody, wants to be alone.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
you know wants to be alone, you know, and into
adulthood too, like when wethink these are patterns that
continue into adulthood.
Right, when we think aboutneurodivergent women in the
workplace.
You're still trying to findthat community.
You're still trying to findyour tribe.
You're trying to succeed andoftentimes you're having to pull
together these personas thatothers you know through practice
(10:42):
.
You know others are going torespond to, and that's how you
succeed, right Is by putting onthis mask, by putting on this
little actress self and sayingthis is the version of me that
you're going to respond to.
This is how I'm going to getthe work done.
It will exhaust me, it'll be alittle bit harder, but we'll
make progress together.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Right, right, exactly , and you know what I feel like
it's different when you knowlike in a workplace right, you
know, I don't know, I felt, I'vealways felt like in a workplace
it's easier to mask because youare already assigned to a
specific task and you alreadyknow beforehand what the
expectations are.
Right, because it's not so free, flowing, right.
(11:19):
Whereas when you're aroundother people right, and you're
trying to be around, like, let'ssay, you have a lot of people
having different kinds ofconversations going on, you know
just figuring out how to keepit going, how to end it, um, you
know figuring where do I belongin social circles?
Right, and things like that.
I think that you know it's somuch easier to actually, when
(11:41):
you're in the workplace, be, youknow it's easier to mask.
In that sense it is and itisn't.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
And I would say, and in the leadership team level,
when you are a leader, you're ina position where you have to
mask and mirror, but you alsohave to make the decisions, and
those decisions impact theentire company.
And you have to predict howfolks are going to respond to
these decisions, and you canmake hyper-rational decisions
right.
You can make the things.
You can make the decisions thatare right for the business, the
(12:09):
stakeholders.
You can take the informationthat's coming to you from the
market and drive your businessforward.
But in terms of responding towhat is that going to mean for
my employees, what is that goingto mean for the larger context
of the organization or future,and how do I contextualize this
in a way that's going to makesense for folks?
That's a challenge, so it kindof follows you.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
It does.
And I mean, yeah, I mean I canalso say, like, even in the
mental health field and this issomething people don't talk
about enough, because I'm atherapist and I'll say this I've
worked in companies and jobswhere it's very much run like a
firm, in the sense of you knowmaking sure you're billing a lot
of hours, a certain amount ofclient hours.
(12:53):
You needed to meet clients youneeded to retain.
It was that expectation.
And the thing is, when you'reneurodivergent whether you're on
the autism spectrum, adhd,whatever you have right Well, I
know I can speak for're on theautism spectrum, adhd, whatever
you have right Well, I know Ican speak for being on the
spectrum.
You know you're not going to befor everyone.
And the thing is it's veryunique in what kind of clients
(13:14):
will come to you and stay withyou versus what will leave.
And there were some places thatdid not respond well to that at
all.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, and it's something that a lot of my
clients so I primarily I'm anexecutive coach, I primarily
work with neurodivergent leadersand executives and there is
this sense of okay, well, thisis how the business has always
operated and therefore I mustoperate in this way and these
are the clients I must targetand these are the ways of
working that I must fit into,without acknowledging that if
you make some slight adjustmentsto the ways of working, you can
(13:51):
actually deliver more value.
To the ways of working, you canactually deliver more value,
you can be more present, you canget to answers faster, you can
support your clients differentlyor better.
So it is a really big challengetrying to fit in with
organizational norms that havealways been taken for granted
without question.
And now you're going toquestion it and say what are
(14:13):
some small changes?
That's the goal.
Right Is what are some smallchanges I can make, either to my
day, to my routines or to ourcollective ways of working, so
that we're all at our best,including?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
myself positions, and I know you said that before you
had to work a lot harder thananybody, than everybody else.
So, like what drew you to thekind of job that you have right
now and like what led you there.
What was your journey like toget here?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah.
So I would say the lastcorporate role I had before I
started my own business, I wasthe chief people officer of a
technology company, so I ran HR.
Before that I had, yeah,leadership positions at various
tech companies.
I was a management consultant,the chief people officer of a
technology company, so I ran HR.
Before that.
I had leadership positions atvarious tech companies.
I was a management consultant,working at large firms for
several years.
And I will say there are uniquegifts and strengths that come
with my neurodivergence and Iknow that, one of which is my
(15:08):
information processing speed.
Another is pattern recognition.
I can look at large, disparatesets of data or facts that seem
unconnected and I can find theconnections and make it work and
sort of come up with theassertions that other people may
not see.
So you know, sort of harnessingthose gifts are how I made it
up.
It was through the quality ofwork, I will say, the
interactions with other peopleand the politics.
(15:30):
Like navigating organizationalpolitics has never been my sweet
spot.
It's been definitely a weaknessand certainly has hampered me,
and those are the areas whereI've had to work significantly
harder right and that's whereI've been reliant on really
strong mentors and relationshipsand the organization where I've
had to go and say like I don'tknow what I'm doing wrong here
or help me understand how Ipissed this person off by doing
(15:51):
this.
I thought I was doing my job,and so finding that sort of
network internally in theorganizations to help translate
right you sometimes need atranslation service.
But while there are thosechallenges and navigating those
challenges, I would sayharnessing my own gifts to be
able to drive value for theorganizations, for the teams
that I was in, is what helped memove upwards and outwards the
(16:14):
service orientation right.
Something that has always been afocus of mine is like how can I
serve and how can I give backto the people around me?
You know I'm generally prettyaware of motivations.
So, like understanding themotivations of those around me,
or I will also say like emotionsare not something I necessarily
take for granted and inpersonal situations I have to
(16:35):
lead with curiosity.
I have to because I can't makeassumptions and trust that those
assumptions are correct.
So operating from that place ofcuriosity, asking more
questions, has also been able togive me more data that other
people may make assumptionsabout and, again, take for
granted and act upon.
This gives me sort of that raw,unfiltered feeling.
It also means that the peoplearound me feel like they're
(16:56):
heard and that they're seen, andso that's a gift that comes
with the neurodivergence as well.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
And absolutely you know, like they say, that you
know, the more that you askquestions and the more that you
show that you're interestedright, the more that you
yourself can become interesting.
Actually, I heard this quotesomewhere that if you want to be
interesting, be interestedright, and I feel like um, I
(17:25):
think that was.
If I'm not mistaken, I thinkthat was a Dale Carnegie quote.
I'm not mistaken Um but um, butI feel like that's kind of
where you know the, you knowthis is where that power comes
into and this is what I thinkyou know.
It seems like you know, eventhough things are difficult, you
(17:45):
really found those gifts andyour curiosity and that your
hunger for knowledge and yourway that you interpret data
right, and the fact that youhave that hunger for knowledge
that helps you gain all thatdata that you're able to then
use to give back and help othersand make decisions that are
going to build everybody right Ithink that's just such a
(18:10):
powerful thing that you know youhave and that's, you know, one
of the things that makes you bewho you are and so good at your
job.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Thank you for saying that, but I think that's the
work right.
In a world in which oftentimesthe way we talk about
neurodivergences as a disabilityand something to be
accommodated in workplaces andin social situations, I think
there's a huge opportunity toshift the way we think and shift
the taxonomy and shift thelanguage.
It's not something to betolerated and I think if we take
(18:41):
a strengths-based approach tohow we navigate neurodivergence,
both at the individual leveland at an organizational level,
and say that there are uniquegifts that come with this.
So how might we unlock thosegifts?
How might we create space forneurodivergent individuals to
operate their strengths in a waythat's most natural to them, so
that it benefits them asindividuals, the organizations
(19:03):
that they support and thecommunities that they live in,
and then you know, then you canstart to have a conversation
around.
Okay, as we're harnessing thesegifts, there are obviously some
challenges.
We all have challenges, rightit's not just neurodivergence.
So how do we couch those, orwhat are the small tools or
strategies we can put into place, either as an again,
individuals or communities tosupport that?
But taking that strengths-basedapproach and changing the way
(19:26):
in which we discuss this, Ithink, gives us a greater
opportunity to support cognitivediversity in all of its forms
as we continue to learn more andmore about this work.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
No, absolutely, and you're right.
I mean, it's one of thosethings that I think.
Here's the thing it takespeople understanding number one,
that people who areneurodivergent have their own
talents and strengths and areable to perform the essential
functions of a job, but in adifferent way, Right, and it
(19:59):
takes people, you know, withopen minds, open hearts, right.
And also it takes, that, youknow, self-belief.
You know that all of us and I,you know I could speak for
myself on this one here.
I'm not going to, I don't wantto speak for everybody else, but
, you know, for me, in order topush through, I had to have a
(20:23):
crazy amount of self-belief that, hey, I can go out here and do
this.
You know, I can perform thistask, I can perform this job,
I'm good at this, Right.
And I had to, like, really learnto use my, even though things
are challenging, I had to usesome of that as also a
superpower, because it allowedme, right To then, you know,
(20:47):
become, you know, like a better,uh, like a podcast host.
It became like an author, youknow, therapist, right, All this
stuff.
This is what allowed me.
It's because of my autism, it'sbecause I have it right, Like
you know and I started, you knowand you know.
So it kind of goes into likekind of what you're saying is,
(21:09):
you know, changing that approachabout how we look at
neurodivergence and using thatas more of a strength based
approach?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, exactly Like what are.
You know, if you treat this asa gift, as a blessing, what
possibilities are created underthat lens?
What possibilities can youcreate for yourself and for
people become diagnosed?
Because we know that that'shappening every day.
(21:42):
More and more folks who flewunder the radar are getting
these diagnoses and trying tofigure out what it means for
them, that they realize that itis a gift and there's so much
good that comes from it andthere's so much good that can
continue to come from it andhelp them live fulfilling lives.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
In your experience now, like you said, like you, of
course, were able tocompartmentalize right being in
the workplace, being indifferent social settings, you
know how you had to maybeportray yourself or come across
for others in order toaccomplish certain things,
whether it be to get through thesocial interactions, whether it
(22:18):
be to get through the workday,get job done right.
What were you able to learnabout yourself authentically in
the process?
I mean, apart from you knowyou're very good at you know you
have a very good hunger forknowledge.
You're very good at taking dataand interpreting data.
You know from what you gather,from being interested in others,
(22:42):
to make decisions that are verywholesome.
What else have you learnedabout who?
You were there?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
are.
Yeah, I think I'm a lot moreempathetic than I've given
myself credit for in the yearspast.
I'm not the person that hears asad story and immediately
starts crying.
I'm not the person that goesinto a scary situation and
immediately starts panicking.
You know, one of the thingsthat comes from my
neurodivergence is the abilityto compartmentalize, pause and
delay an emotional reaction.
It's just something thatnaturally happens for many of us
(23:13):
.
Either our body shut down or wedelay it.
And you know, friends and familyhave always sort of joked about
my level of empathy.
But I will actually say whatI've noticed is because I'm not
responding with emotions, I'mactually able to see and notice
subtle cues.
So in a social situation, I canstart to see if someone's body
(23:34):
language is telling me thatthey're uncomfortable.
I can start to get curiousabout that.
I can go and check in on thatperson and advocate for that
person as necessary.
Sorry, we cut out for a second,did you still hear me?
Yeah, something challenging.
(24:02):
I can just hold that space forthem without coloring that
experience, with my own thoughts, my own feelings, my own
emotions, my own experiences.
And I think there's a uniquelevel of empathy and being able
to honor that space withoutresponding with my own personal
emotions.
That is actually truly valuable, and it's one of the things
that helps me in my role as apeople leader right In
supporting employees andsupporting the people around me.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
How do you deal with your overwhelm?
Because you know I'm justwondering, like you know it to
be in a leadership positionwhere you're dealing with people
all day.
You know I can only imagine itcan get taxing, especially
because it's a lot of work andenergy that you're putting in,
not only you know, just ingeneral in the work sense and
(24:49):
fulfilling obligations, duties,responsibilities, but also the
additional stuff that you takeinto account that many people
who may not be neurodivergentparticularly, may understand or
appreciate fully right thatlevel.
(25:09):
So how do you handle like yourdaily and how do you manage it?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, and here's the work.
Right, this is the work that Ido with myself, this is the work
that I do with my clients, butit's I'd say there's like a
couple of key strategies.
One is what I call the MVR, sothat's the minimum viable
routine.
So I have a list of things thatI've sort of made and that is
at a minimum.
No matter what every single daywhether I'm overwhelmed, sad,
(25:43):
overstimulated, not these arethe things that must get done,
and that's things like walkingmy dog and feeding him and
things like that.
So, as part of your MVR,identify things that can be
automated and taken care of foryou so that it's not impacted by
dysregulation or waves.
And then so I have automaticfeeders and things like that as
well.
So the MVR is sort ofsacrosanct.
The second component isself-awareness and
(26:04):
self-regulation, and so that isdoing a lot of somatic work and
seeking to understand what itlooks like when I'm dysregulated
, so whether it's due to sensoryoverwhelm or, you know, that
tends to be one of my biggesttriggers is sensory overwhelm or
too much happening all at once.
And I went to a conference nottoo long ago in Vegas, and that
(26:24):
is, you know, you have to gothrough the slot machines to get
to the actual conference and goto the sessions as sensory
overwhelm all the time.
So getting really in touch withyour body and knowing that, hey
, I'm approaching dysregulation,like my hands are starting to
shake, I can start to feel thatsort of tension in my chest, my
voice is starting to quiver.
So I know what this feels likefor me and I can understand the
(26:45):
physical triggers, becausesometimes mentally, logically,
you won't necessarily know.
You're moving to that space andthen coming up with your
strategies and they lookdifferent for everyone.
For me, I have a one and a twominute meditation practice.
So being able to step away forexactly 120 seconds, close my
eyes, engage in my practice,re-regulate my system, get my
(27:05):
heart rate down and then open myeyes and get back to it, that's
something I know.
If I'm sort of beyond a certainthreshold, I actually need to
exit that situation.
So coming up with those cuesagain and just letting folks
know hey, I actually need aminute, if you'll excuse me,
step outside, go for a walk, doI need do what I need to do?
Come back.
I also know like folks who areon the spectrum will notice
(27:26):
energy dips throughout the day.
So specific moments in timethroughout the day where you
start to feel that overwhelmcreep in.
For me that's typically around3 PM.
I always have this thing acrossmy calendar.
It's called TTFR.
It's tea time for Rita Um at 3PM.
Right around there almost everyday, I actually disappear for a
moment.
I have my own cup of herbal tea.
I have my own ritual in terms ofhow I decompress and then I can
(27:48):
come back to the world umunderstanding things that work
for you.
So, like vigorous exercise acertain number of times a week,
um has been shown to beextraordinarily helpful, not
just for folks who are on thespectrum, but especially for
folks who have ADHD.
Especially for folks who haveADHD, it's a really great
regulating mechanism, and soblock those times off, and
knowing when I get the most outof my workout might be in the
(28:09):
middle of the day blocking thosethings off.
So I would say know yourself,get really curious about
yourself and get to knowyourself really well.
Who are you in your bestmoments and who are you when
you're dysregulated.
How will you know when you'redysregulated, what are the
strategies, automations, tools,techniques that you can start to
employ and bake into yourcalendar and bake into your
(28:30):
routines so that it's automatic.
I'm starting to feel this.
This is a strategy I go towards.
This is how I navigate that.
This is how I check in, this ishow I resolve and move forward
check in.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
This is how I resolve and move forward and that's a
very important advice that you'dgive just now to really know
yourself when you aredysregulated, when you're at
your best moments, because it'sso true that you know what there
are things that people need todo, and know themselves well
enough to understand what theyneed to give themselves the
self-care that they need.
You know, and I definitely canrelate to you know, being
overwhelmed, especially likedon't get me wrong, I enjoy
(29:07):
going to conferences and all,but it can be very overwhelming.
And I remember when I went toactually I went to a conference
in February.
I had my book launch there and,honestly, by the time the whole
conference is over, I honestlyfelt burnt out.
I took a week off work.
I remember this and because Ispoke at the conference, I
(29:30):
launched the book there as welland and don't get me wrong, I
loved it Very good conference,but man, it felt like a social
hangover big time after theconference was over and it was
just overall, just like a verybig, like I needed that week to
just decompress, regroupeverything.
(29:52):
And so I get it.
You know it can be veryoverwhelming.
You know any event, big socialevents can get overwhelming too,
and it's like you know and Iknow for me.
You know like I I run a lot.
I run with autism speaks forthe marathon.
So I'll be in New York inNovember doing that, and then
you know I know like runninghelps me.
(30:13):
And, um, rocking, actually I doalso keep some fidgets with me,
and just sitting and rockingback and forth does the trick
for me.
I love to rock, I really do andfidget, and I have clients that
I work with who also love tofidget, and sometimes we'll just
fidget together in session andit's a lot of fun actually that
(30:35):
way and also it's a great way ofus connecting that way too.
So it's like you know.
But I really just do definitelyappreciate that advice that you
gave about really just knowingwho you are.
And you know, you know whatyour strengths are, you know
yourself well enough, you knowwhat you need every day, and so
(31:01):
you're and I heard you sayearlier now you are getting your
master's correct.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah, I'm doing a master's right now at the
University of Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Oh, excellent.
And what are you?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
getting your master's in.
It's an organizational dynamics, but my focus area is very much
in leadership and specificallyneurodivergent leadership.
Oh, excellent.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Excellent, specifically neurodivergent
leadership.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Oh, excellent, excellent, and Rita if people
wanted to come and find you.
Where can people reach out toyou at?
Yeah, so my business iswwwiksanacom.
(31:46):
I offer executive andleadership coaching for
neurodivergent leaders andcertainly some work working with
organizations and HR teams todrive more inclusive cultures,
but you can also just find me onLinkedIn and reach out anytime.
I love working with thiscommunity.
I love partnering with thiscommunity and meeting others
within it.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Excellent.
Well, it was really a pleasureto have you on here and thank
you for sharing your story.
Thank you for doing all thatyou do to give back, to help
other women and, you know,especially those with
neurodivergence Because reallywe need each other.
We really do, you know, andit's collectiveness that's going
(32:20):
to help us, not division, andso I really appreciate all that
you're doing for the community,all that you are, you know, all
that you've, you know you'rejust about all your passion,
everything to help and give back, and so I, from the bottom of
(32:41):
my heart, I thank you so muchfor all that.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Thank you, I really appreciate you having me on and,
um, I really enjoyed thisdiscussion.
Well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Thank you, I enjoyed it very much as well.
And that, my folks, is a wrapfor this episode of on the
spectrum with Sonia.
Remember, if you enjoy thiscontent, please review,
subscribe and share with yourfamily, with your friends.
(33:11):
Also, if you haven't already,my book dropped in a maze is
available on all major from allmajor retailers, book
distributors.
Also, as promised, I promisedyou I was going to read reviews
(33:31):
if you left a review.
So today's review that I'mgoing to read is from Nancy
Spano.
It says Sonia is a beacon forall that fall under her
footsteps, incredible author andfantastic book.
Thank you very much, nancy, forthat review.
Dropped in a maze, remember, ifyou purchase it, remember, and
(33:52):
you write a review, it'll beread on this podcast out loud.
Apart from that, just keeptuning in.
I'm going to keep sharing, keepsubscribing, reviewing, rating
and I will be coming with youwith more amazing episodes.
(34:13):
So take care.
Thank you so much, everyone andhave a amazing day.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.