Indie Intermission Ep. 20- I blame the girl who is gone. (They Came in the Night)

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
Bye.

(00:05):
Welcome to Our Pod, and by thatI mean on Wednesdays we read.
I'm Hannah.

SPEAKER_01 (00:09):
I'm Laura.

SPEAKER_03 (00:10):
And we are two best friends who do a deep dive into
a new book series, one book at atime, except when we are on Indy
Mission, where we are coveringThe Game in the Night by Javi
Nové.
So before we get into this finalsection of sex and darkness...

(00:35):
Laura has hit her sex thresholdfor

SPEAKER_00 (00:38):
the next three years.
I've hit my threshold.
I might not be able to watchBridgerton next year when it
comes out.

SPEAKER_03 (00:45):
Laura's sex threshold is pretty low, guys,
and this one hit it.
But before we get into that,Laura, what are you reading,
watching, and or enjoying?

SPEAKER_00 (00:54):
So I recently read Strange Pictures by Uketsu.
Okay, so the cover is cool, butI had heard about this online.
People were just raving about itand how unique it was and
everything.
And I think a lot of theuniqueness is the mystery
surrounding the author, becausethe author is a YouTube

(01:15):
personality who does all sortsof weird horror videos, but
always appears with a mask andin a black bodysuit, and no one
knows who this person is.
And they'll sometimes appear ininterviews and stuff like that
in the mask and bodysuit likeI'm holding this up so you can
see even like the author photois that where it's just like a

(01:36):
person in a mask and bodysuitand so there's like a lot of
confusion surrounding the authorthemselves and I think that kind
of adds to the mystery of thebook where Strange Pictures is a
Japanese translation uh mysteryhorror, I guess.

(01:58):
I didn't think it was superhorrific.
I've read Stephen King that hasmore horror.
But I would also say that thiswould be a horror, just more
light horror.
But it's a collection of storiesabout pictures.
And as you're reading, you kindof figure out the connection of

(02:19):
the pictures to the charactersas you go along.
And I read it in a very shortperiod of time because it really
just draws you in.
It's not a big book.
It's maybe 200 and some pages,but it really draws you in and
you start to kind of get, it'sone of those things where it
feels like short stories, butnot quite.

(02:41):
And so I feel like once youstart reading one of them,
you're like, wait, I have tolearn more about what happened.
So it was very easy to justconsume the whole thing.
And I would recommend it.
I don't know if it's the as bigof a sensation as it has been
hyped up to be but I thought itwas good I did like it and I

(03:03):
also have to admit I aminterested in this author now
because it's just a little bitcreepy to me and I think that's
what draws most people into thiswhere they're like what's going
on with that author that's alittle different so yeah I kind
of get the sensation part of itand kind of not but it's I would

(03:23):
recommend the book if you'relooking for a little bit of
light horror and some kind ofclever storytelling.
Oh,

SPEAKER_03 (03:30):
good.

SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
I also have been reading for my book...
Well, I finished it.
For my book club, Persepolis,the Story of a Childhood by
Marjane Satrapi.
Apologies if I pronounce thename wrong.
And this is a graphic novelthat's a memoir about the...
life of the author growing up inIran and during a lot of the

(03:56):
Iranian revolution and her, theIslamic revolution and the
journey that she goes on as ayoung girl who moves away and
then comes back to the area thatshe grew up in.
And it was a really greatmemoir.
I really appreciated it a lot.

(04:17):
Our book club, discussed it andwe had some new members so we
didn't get like a ton ofdiscussion on the book itself
but I highly recommend it toother people because I took a
lot away from it and learnedsome things.
And at our book club, the leaderof the discussion, she passed
out some information about therevolution itself, just some

(04:38):
history on it and everything,because even though this was
about that time, it was verymuch like a memoir.
So you're getting the author'sexperience, being a young girl
and being like, well, I want tohave a Michael Jackson shirt and
I want Nikes.
For me, growing up in theMidwest, I didn't learn a lot of
things about this section ofworld history.

(05:00):
Because why would they want toshare that?
Because they don't want to makethe U.S.
look bad.
How dare they?
So obviously we have to, youknow, not talk about those
things in history books.
We just won't mention it.
But yeah, I think it was areally interesting book.
And I kind of appreciate...

(05:21):
authors who choose to tell theirstories via graphic novel
because it makes stories alittle more accessible,
especially when it's coveringsuch like heavy things of a
recent time.
I think that it's a reallyunique way to draw people in who
may not seek out informationabout that specific topic

(05:45):
because I know I probably wouldnot have thought to pick up a
memoir about a young girl duringthis time.

SPEAKER_03 (05:52):
Right.
Yeah, it's interesting how...
I feel like graphic novels arenever as hyped as they should be
because it is a very unique wayof telling a story.
And the artwork

SPEAKER_00 (06:06):
brings you in.

(06:27):
good medium to tell stories andthat we need to, especially like
with history, it's the perfectway to show some of these
things.
So yeah, I really appreciatedthat book and I was really glad
that they chose it for our bookclub.
I can't remember what the otherchoice was.
There was a couple of graphic orthere were a couple of graphic

(06:50):
novels that were available foroptions, but Persepolis was
chosen, and I'm really glad thatit was very, very good.
And then for watching, I watchedMickey 17.
Oh, how was that?
I loved it.
It was so quirky, and RobertPattinson...

(07:12):
He had the most adorable littleaccent in the movie, and I think
he just did a really great jobacting in his role as Mickey.
And it was just a really cutemovie, in my opinion.
And cute, quirky, doing someweird things.
I really liked it.
And I think...
People were a little too harshin their critiques of it.

(07:35):
I thought it had good reviews.
Did it?
Oh, I saw people online thatwere like, this isn't a very
good movie.
And I was like, oh, I thought itlooked good.
And so when I watched it, I wasjust like pleasantly surprised
because I had...
I think kind of low expectationsgoing into it, but Robert
Pattinson was so good and he wasso cute with his little voice.
And then there was cute littlealiens that I loved so much.

(07:58):
And it was just a delight.
I really enjoyed it.
78%

SPEAKER_03 (08:03):
on Rotten Tomatoes.
So I guess it was middlingreviews, but Hey, Laura liked

SPEAKER_00 (08:07):
it.
I saw some people online thatwere not the biggest fans, but
it was, i i don't know i reallyliked it i thought it was fun
and i kind of appreciate thingslike that that have that like
weird like quirkiness to them itkind of gave me vibes of like
jojo rabbit and stuff like thatyou know that are a little bit

(08:29):
different you know what i meanand a little bit folksy almost
even though this was like asci-fi thing it still almost had
like a folksy feel to it i don'tknow how to describe it

SPEAKER_03 (08:38):
Well, and like, I don't know.
I like it because at least it'soriginal.
Like there, there've been acouple.

SPEAKER_00 (08:43):
I mean, it's based on a book.

SPEAKER_03 (08:44):
well yeah but like that's still like original where
it's not like it's

SPEAKER_00 (08:48):
not a

SPEAKER_03 (08:49):
remake of like

SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
we're doing another Pride and Prejudice right like
it's just like an actual for thelove of God no

SPEAKER_03 (08:56):
like it's an actual movie about something that's
unique and different and like

SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
we're doing a live action Lion King 2 for the love
of God stop with the liveactions

SPEAKER_03 (09:07):
yeah I mean you can just change the ending of Lilo
and Stitch in a way that

SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
doesn't in a way that's really

SPEAKER_03 (09:14):
problematic Hawaiian people.
So like, yeah, I like that it'soriginal and like it's something
different.
So and Bong Joon-ho is amazing.
So like everything.
So

SPEAKER_00 (09:27):
I was also just kind of surprised because I guess I'm
not used to Robert Pattinsonplaying more of like a cutesy,
funny role.
He takes on kind of seriousroles usually, which I think
he's a pretty good actor.
People kind of think too much ofhim as being edward in twilight
and he actually is he's got someacting chops like we need to

(09:49):
give our boys credit becausehe's very good i

SPEAKER_03 (09:52):
think a lot of people actually think he's like
kind of prestigey i think peoplethink he's a little really full
of himself maybe that

SPEAKER_00 (09:58):
could be it

SPEAKER_03 (09:59):
like there's a weird thing where someone was talking
about it recently like our dayand age we don't like people who
are a little like who seem likethey want to be like big, you
know, like Timothee Chalamet isreally big right now, but he
even said like, I want to begreat.
I want to be the best.
I really don't like earnestnessin this day

SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
and age.
And the thing is too, I feellike we have created a culture
where everyone's supposed to beextremely modest, quote unquote,
supposed to be extremely modest.
And so when people are proud ofthemselves for doing something
or like acknowledge like, yeah,I did a really good job and that
it almost feels a little off.
Yes.
You know what I mean?

(10:39):
It's funny you mention thatbecause I was listening to Good
Hang, the podcast with AmyPoehler, or it's Amy Poehler's
podcast, and she had on DakotaJohnson.
And Dakota...
It was an interesting interviewbecause I don't really know that
much about Dakota Johnson.
And she was mentioning, like,Madame Webb and how she won the
Razzie for worst actress andeverything.
And you could tell she was alittle peeved about it.

(11:01):
And she was like, I don't knowwhat I was supposed to do at
that point because I had signedon for this movie and then a
bunch of stuff was changed and Iwas kind of stuck with it and
all this stuff.
And so you could tell she was alittle peeved by the reception
of it and everything and winningthe Razzie.
But then she also, you know, wastalking about her other work and
she mentioned...
I did a really good job and Ithought I did awesome and all

(11:24):
this stuff.
And I had that same reactionjust kind of being like, oh,
that's odd to just talk yourselfup like that.
Dakota Johnson.

SPEAKER_03 (11:32):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
But you know what?

SPEAKER_03 (11:35):
You should be

SPEAKER_00 (11:36):
proud

SPEAKER_03 (11:36):
of

SPEAKER_00 (11:36):
stuff that you do.

SPEAKER_03 (11:37):
right like and I think that that's kind of the
thing is I don't think thatthere's anything I think we kind
of like put actors on this weirdlike you have to be the happy
medium but also people

SPEAKER_00 (11:47):
and also to be like bastions of goodness you know
where it's like can never youknow take credit for anything
you always always have to becaring and putting all your
money into charity andeverything.

SPEAKER_03 (11:59):
Well, and like Dakota Johnson was raised in the
industry.
Like she is a Nepo baby.

SPEAKER_00 (12:04):
For sure.
Huge Nepo baby.
Like Antonio Banderas was herstepdad.

SPEAKER_03 (12:10):
Melanie Griffith was her mom.

SPEAKER_00 (12:11):
Her mom.
Don Johnson was her dad.
Like she's been around celebsforever.

SPEAKER_03 (12:16):
Forever.
And so I do think like, it's oneof those things where it's like,
okay, good for her.
I can honestly say that like, Idon't like to go to Johnson's
acting skills, but I'm also nother main like people who would
love her.
So I think that's also fine, butshe gets to be earnest and she
gets to like what she does.
And honestly, I'm not herbiggest fan for acting, but I do
think it's funny that she's anincredibly confrontational

(12:39):
person.
And it's very funny to see thatin a woman who is part of
Hollywood, who is supposed tobe, who's kind of like beige and
acting and laid back.
And if I know that she's a verycontroversial, person in real
life it's like

SPEAKER_00 (12:51):
here's the thing I kind of took away from the I
kind of took a few things awayfrom that interview that podcast
interview where she's actuallykind of funny like she's oh yeah
very sarcastic and I was notexpecting

SPEAKER_03 (13:05):
that she's the one who called out Ellen I think
I've talked

SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
that was hilarious that was very confrontational
but at the same time I thinkpeople think that that was
funnier than it was I think shewas very serious about it like
Ellen I was not invited.

SPEAKER_03 (13:18):
No, she said, Ellen, I invited you because you made
such a big deal about it thelast time.
Well, and I think I've talkedabout it on the podcast before.
She went on Jimmy Kimmel andtheir next door neighbors and
their other neighbor came up totalk to them and they're like,
hey, neighbor.
And she was like, did you callthe cops on my car that's in my
drive?
And Jimmy Kimmel was like, andit became very obvious, like,

(13:41):
that's what happened.
And she was like, well, theykeep annoying me because they
keep telling me that, like, Ihave my grandfather's antique
truck in my yard and they saidit's an eyesore and I'm like,
well, just look away.
It's in my yard.
So she's just...
kind of this person who's likei'm going to tell it like it is
and it's

SPEAKER_00 (13:59):
well she does too because you know amy does this
thing on her podcast where shetalks to people who are like
very close with the person she'sabout to interview and asks them
like if you were doing theinterview what questions would
you ask and so she had onanother actor who is good
friends with dakota johnson whois also on parks and rec um but
he was saying like you shouldask her like And he said this in

(14:25):
all earnestness, so I kind offelt a little bad when Dakota
had this response.
So he wanted to know, like, whatactors did she look up to
growing up?
Because she, you know, wasaround such famous people, you
know, like, it'd be such a,like, weird thing to be like oh
it was my mom and dad you knowthere's so many important actors

(14:48):
around her to kind of know likewhich ones did she admire well
Dakota when Amy asked her thatshe says is that seriously what
he said and Amy was like uh yeahand it's one of those deals
where it's like you can talkabout something beforehand and
like acknowledge like oh Ireally like this and then
somebody comes on and you'rementioning that thing and

(15:10):
they're like I hate that.
And then you kind of just shutdown for a minute where you're
like, hmm.
okay mm-hmm don't want tomention it and it was a little
bit awkward because before theygot Dakota on Amy had been
talking to this other actor andsaying like oh that's a great
question and when Dakota calledit out and was like did he

(15:30):
seriously ask that what a lamequestion to ask and I was a
little bit shocked and I thinkAmy was caught off guard too and
didn't really know what to sayand then kind of was just like
well you know like what but whowould you say and And it was
interesting to me that Dakotawould just like call it out and

(15:52):
be like, that's a lame questionto ask somebody like me who's
just around tons of celebrities,like come up with something a
little deeper.
And I was like, bold of her todo that, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 (16:03):
Yeah.
So I do think she's a veryconfrontational person, which is
like, it's interesting.
And I think that that's kind of,I think maybe like what people
miss out on when they're lookingat earnestness or looking at
someone who's likeconfrontational or in your face,
it's like, well, what is like,that's such a unique
perspective.
That's not something we seeoften.
So like, what can we learn fromthat?

(16:34):
When he was going on, he wantedto do like a thing where it's
all these screaming fans at him.
And then he's like, they're allscreaming.
He's at this press junket.
And then he just goes home andhe goes into a basement and
there are like fans in cages andhe just screams back at them.

(16:55):
Getting used to like getting allthose frustrations out.
And then he's like, and then Ileft and like Zac Efron walked
in.
It's like, that's so dark, butthat's very funny for someone
who grew up in that kind ofspotlight.

SPEAKER_00 (17:08):
It's also like you don't expect that kind of thing
from people like him.
You know what I mean?
I kind of like those type ofsituations where people surprise
me a little bit.
I don't want to be supersurprised.
I don't want to know really bad,dark details about people.
But things like that, I thinkthose kind of surprises are fun.

(17:28):
Right, exactly.
And honestly, that movie was agood surprise for me because I'm
not, like I said, not used tohim doing quirkier roles.
So it was fun.
And then I've also watched Loveon the Spectrum season three.
Oh, how's that going?

(17:48):
What a cute show.
What a cute show.
It's really adorable.
And it then led me into like theTalk to Me Sis podcast, which is
a couple of the mothers of someof the people who are on Love on
the Spectrum, the documentary.
And that has been interestingjust to kind of learn the

(18:08):
backstory of some of the peoplewho were on the show and like
what their journey was to get adiagnosis and, you know, like
receive services at school, whattheir schooling was like, et
cetera, et cetera.
So that, podcast has beeninteresting but the show itself
is just so cute and i reallylike that show i there's been a

(18:32):
lot of controversy about aparticular person who was on it
uh who's been on it since seasonone where in the first season
she very much did not understandlike how to start a relationship
she was very much wanting arelationship but I think she was
so like unaware of like how totell her feelings how to show

(18:55):
her feelings in order to move tolike the next step to like get a
second date or something thatimmediately on the first date
she kissed the guy and said thatshe loved him and this was
another person who was on thespectrum who was also you know
very much wanting a relationshipand so When she got home after
that first date, she was kind oflike talking with her family and

(19:17):
she's like, I think I made amistake.
I don't think I love him.
And so then she had to, youknow, break the news to this guy
like, I don't think I love you.
And he was very like upset andeverything.
And so then she was kind ofthroughout that time.
the rest of that season and intothe next season, more about like

(19:39):
taking it slow.
She kept mentioning taking itslow and everything.
But then she ended up being in arelationship with another guy
and she was then had decided,you know, she was ready to move
on to the next step.
She wanted to have a physicalrelationship.
And in season three, the onethat has most recently come out,
she was very open about wantingto have a physical relationship.

(20:03):
And I'm not going to lie, peoplehave kind of made her out to be
a villain online because sheended up breaking up with the
guy that she was with because hedid not want to pursue a
physical relationship untilafter marriage.
And you know what?
That's his right.
And she was respectful of that.
She was like, you know what?
She never pressured him oranything, but she broke up with

(20:26):
him.
And there was, I will say, therewas a thing that she...
They had had severalconfrontations about this topic
because she was like, you know,it's really important to me to
be physical with someone beforeI move further in the
relationship.
And I think that's a maturestance.
But she's very much involved inanimation.

(20:50):
She's a very talented animator.
And she teaches animation also.
And she had created for theiranniversary a short clip
where...
a couple of characters who werewe think her and the boyfriend
at the time were in bed underthe covers having sex and it

(21:12):
made the boyfriend veryuncomfortable and she so that I
think kind of was difficult fora lot of people who are viewing
the show to know like what'sgoing on here.
They felt she was kind ofpressuring him.
And I think a lot of it is wedon't understand the way that
things are edited for the show,especially in documentaries.

(21:34):
We're not getting the fullpicture.
We're just getting snippets ofpossibly months of
relationships.
Right.
But we don't know what'shappened in the year that we
haven't seen these people.
So it's difficult.
And I also think, too, you know,watching previous seasons, I

(21:54):
knew that there was some, Idon't want to say hardships, but
there were some barriers interms of knowing what was
appropriate to say and knowingwhen it was appropriate to do
certain things for this womanand for the person she was in a
relationship with.
So I think that trying tocommunicate where they both were

(22:16):
at was a struggle for the two ofthem but it was really
interesting to me the receptionthat she has been getting online
where a lot of people have kindof villainized her for breaking
up with her boyfriend becauseshe wanted to have a physical
relationship and she has sinceentered into a relationship with

(22:36):
someone else and it seems to begoing well from what they've
said on the podcast that I waslistening to so that's great but
I think the reception online isweird

SPEAKER_03 (22:46):
Do you think that there's like a weird because
we've talked about this before,especially with love on the
spectrum, this weirdinfantilization of people with
disabilities?
I do think that exists.
Expect them to like, well, youdo love them.
So why would a physicalrelationship matter?
And it's like, well, adultpeople have these types of
conflicts all the time and makethe decisions that they're

(23:07):
making.
And it's not vilified.
It's just two adults making adecision of what works for them.

SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
Correct.
Yeah, I agree.
I do think that that is a lot ofit where unfortunately people
who have any type ofneurodivergence or are
developmentally disabled areoften...

SPEAKER_03 (23:28):
I forgot if you said that they were developmentally
disabled or just neurodivergent,so apologies.
They

SPEAKER_00 (23:34):
have autism.
I don't believe that they're...
I think it's justneurodivergence as far as I
know.
But I was just throwing indevelopmentally disabled because
I know that that's also a groupof people who...
are often infantilized andshould not be because they are
adults.
But I think that is a lot of itwhere people want to just assume

(23:56):
that, and this is not me, likeobviously asexual people deserve
the right to exist andeverything, but I think it's
harmful to assume that peoplewho are neurodivergent or
developmentally disabled areasexual all the time.
Right.
I'm not saying that there aren'tasexual people who are disabled

(24:18):
or have neurodivergence, but...

SPEAKER_03 (24:21):
Yeah, I don't know.
People say, I love you too fastall the time.
People decide that they want aphysical relationship that isn't
up to the standards of others.
It's very weird to decide thatthat's a villainous standpoint
instead of that's just an adultperson that we're seeing
having...
unique view of the world make adecision that it's very similar

(24:42):
to many other people in theworld so

SPEAKER_00 (24:45):
yeah and i definitely feel like of all the
people who were on the show imean autism definitely is a
spectrum and i feel like thiswoman for sure to me was at one
end of the spectrum where sheseemed to she seems incredibly
successful and that herstruggles in my mind with her

(25:07):
neurodivergent seem very muchrelated to communication and
like kind of understandingappropriateness of things
because she seems highlyintelligent.
And that's not to say that otherpeople on the show are not
intelligent.
That's not what I'm saying.
But I think that when we'retalking about the way that
people on the show are viewed, Ithink there is a lot of

(25:30):
infantilizing that happens.
And these are adults.
I mean, these are people intheir 20s and 30s.
They want to have sex.
They want to have partners.
They want to get married andhave kids.
So, yeah.
But it's also one of thosethings, too, where the show is a
documentary, but at the sametime, we're getting a lot of,
like, cutesy music and stufflike that.

(25:52):
And I said at the beginning ofthis rant, like, this is a good
show.
Like, I really like it.
Yeah.
it also is a show where likeI've felt validated watching it
because, you know, I have asibling with a developmental
disability and it is at timeslike watching my own life,
seeing some of theseinteractions with these family

(26:14):
members and especially, youknow, seeing some of the sibling
interactions that has been likevery interesting to me because
I'm like, Yeah, I know exactlyhow they feel, some of the joy
that they get from their siblingand how the laughter at some of
the hilarious things that arementioned or what have you.

(26:35):
It very much feels like areflection of my own life at
times watching that show.
And I also appreciate at timeswhen the parents would share
stories of the often strugglesthat they had to go through in
their own relationships.
their relationship with eachother, just having a child who
had different needs.

(26:57):
And that is hard as someone whogrew up in a similar type of
household to have to contemplatethose things, knowing like, oh,
my parents went through a lot ofhard times that I didn't even
realize.
So I do think that show is verymuch worth watching just to, you
know, kind of open up doors likethat for people to recognize the

(27:21):
different things that are goingon in people's lives.
Hold on just a second.

SPEAKER_03 (27:28):
No, I think that that's a really good point.
And it's one of those, it's ayes and type of show.
Yes, this is giving a lot ofgood visibility.
And the

SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
awareness is important.

SPEAKER_03 (27:39):
Yes.
And people have to be able tocheck their own biases on what
they're coming into the showexpecting to see.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (27:47):
I know like just myself and like my own
experience, it's been a uniqueexperience.
thing to grow up and I even haveto check myself at times
interacting with my sibling likeknowing like my sibling is 30
years old and even though theyare very much into like things

(28:10):
that would be considered youngerthe same time They're 30 years
old.
They want to do things thatadults do because they're 30.
They don't want to be clumped inwith the kids all the time and
do all those types of things.
So it's something that I thinkwe have to look at individuals
and their specific needs andalso think about even people who

(28:35):
are not neurodivergent ordevelopmentally disabled have
unique needs to that we oftenoverlook.
Like I think about myself andI'm like, Laura, you love
Disney.
You love like I'll just sit downand watch a Disney movie.
Like I'll watch Elemental or Upor whatever just for fun.
And I love Star Wars and stufflike that.

(28:58):
Like I watch lots of things thatwould be associated with like
kids and no one's infantilizingme.
They're like, get out there andgo to work.
The amount

SPEAKER_03 (29:07):
of like kids And I think that that's fine.
Like, I'm right cool

SPEAKER_00 (29:25):
with that kind of stuff, just because I, I think.
Why can't we experience joy?
If certain things bring you joy,just go for it.
Especially if you're not

SPEAKER_03 (29:36):
taking it away from children.
Laura's not walking into aDisney store and throwing
children out of the way so shecan get an elemental start.
You're just enjoying somethingthat's meant to

SPEAKER_00 (29:46):
be enjoyed.
I went to Disney in the fallwith my sister-in-law and my
niece and nephew.
I was not like, excuse me, Ihave to go first.
You can't meet this character.
It's me first.
Exactly.
You're reasonable

SPEAKER_03 (30:05):
about it.
Don't be an idiot.

SPEAKER_00 (30:10):
But I think it's also, you know, when we're
talking about infantilizinggroups, recognize that, like
Hannah said, yes and.
We can look at a show andrecognize the importance of the
visibility that it brings andthe awareness, but also need to
look at the people involved andrecognize people are not a
monolith.
And also people in the show areadults.

(30:35):
So, Hannah, what have you beenreading, watching, and or
enjoying?
Well,

SPEAKER_03 (30:40):
for listeners on the pod and a small preview, we're
about to have Jordan Efueko onthe pod to talk about The Maid
and the Crocodile, which takesplace in her Raybearer universe,
but does not necessarily dealwith the same characters.
Raybearer is a duology.
So I've been listening to theaudiobooks of Raybearer and

(31:03):
Redemptor to kind of get caughtup because they I owned
Raybearer.
I really wanted to read thesebooks and I was like, well, I
bet I could fit all three in.
Like the first two aredefinitely...

SPEAKER_00 (31:12):
You and I are on the same track because I'm in the
middle of

SPEAKER_03 (31:15):
those two.
I'm loving it.
I just finished Redemptor todayand I freaking love these books.
Like these are so amazing.
Like everyone just go read thesebooks because they're so
important.
They're so fascinating.
There's such like a depth oftelling like...
So Jordan takes from WestAfrican cultures to build these

(31:38):
worlds.
They're just beautifullycreated.
Tarisai is one of my favoritemain characters I think I've
ever met.
So Tarisai is a young girl atthe beginning of the book.
She was born from a wish fromher mother, who she calls the
Lady.
And she was kind of createdto...

(32:01):
right the wrongs of her motheruh and she was told to kill the
crown prince of this world thatshe lives in and she gets sent
to this children's palace butTeresa has been like starved of
love and affection her entirelife because she was only built
to kill this person her momliterally calls her um oh I'm
blanking on what she calls herbut um uh like me of me pretty

(32:26):
much i forget what the specificlanguage is but she doesn't even
use her real name uh withtarisai and um tarisai's father
is like this being who um andthis is all at the beginning of
the book so i'm not ruining muchbut like he said in the
beginning of the book he madesure that he got to name her
because he didn't trust her momto give her like a proper name

(32:47):
that was her own And so you haveall of these like deep, deep
traumas.
And she starts, she starts likeloving this crown prince who is
trying to build this unity, likethis unit of people where he
could no longer die unless itcomes from one of these people.
So it has so much in it.
The second book is so amazing.

(33:09):
It deals with stuff like theseare YA books.
They're meant for like 15 to 17year olds, I would say.
Maybe 14 in the first bookbecause like a lot of these
types of books you can start alittle bit younger and then they
age

SPEAKER_00 (33:21):
I would say 14 is that like 8th grade I feel like
that's probably appropriateusually

SPEAKER_03 (33:27):
yeah like 13 14 I would say for the first book the
second book has some like deeperstuff but I still think 13 or 14
is perfect

SPEAKER_00 (33:33):
I'm not very far in the second book

SPEAKER_03 (33:35):
so but no spoilers for the second book because it
would spoil everything thathappens in the first book but I
will say one of the huge themesin this book that really speaks
to me personally is just likethe difference between guilt and
conviction of like your guiltand not being able to do enough

(33:55):
and be enough can sometimes holdyou back from doing the things
you need to do in the world andaccepting the things you can't
do.
So if like you're constantlythinking about I'm not doing
enough, I'm not enough, it canhold you back from attempting to
write things that you actuallycan have control over, the
things that you could possiblyhave an effective change for.

(34:16):
And the book made me cry becausethat's something like I've been
struggling with in the past yearis I think I've been holding
myself back from doing good tobe perfect and I don't think
that that is a good thing it'swhy I am in therapy again why I
am on anxiety meds but like it'sso important and like I love

(34:37):
that these books are meant forlike 13 to 16 year olds because
I think that that's reallyimportant for kids to hear at
this time in their lives whenlike they're in high school and
they're trying to make very bigdecisions in their life like I
wish I had like a book like thisbecause I was reading about
Sarah Dessen's Sad Girl thing.

SPEAKER_00 (34:58):
Or just like classics where you're

SPEAKER_03 (35:00):
like Jane Eyre.
Or this is like it looks atdifferent types of love and
different types like it's justthere's so much beauty in it.
I just started The Maid and theCrocodile so I can't wait to see
what changes from the previousbooks because I just love it
all.
I'm a huge fan.
Everyone go read these books andlisten when we have Jordan on

(35:22):
the pod to talk about the maidand the crocodile.
So I did specifically reach outto Laura on these and I was
like, Libro FM is having a deal.

SPEAKER_00 (35:32):
I'm so glad that we're able to get her on.
I have wanted to get her on fora long time.
And then Nomina Forno, we hadher on, which go check out
Nomina's books as well.
had also suggested like checkout jordan's books like you
would really like them if youlike mine so i'm so glad that
we're going to be getting theopportunity to interview her

SPEAKER_03 (35:52):
was right i believe nomina blue-eyed samurai and her
books big fans of both so uh soi'm listening to those i also
just read asunder by kirstenhall this was an arc i got off
neck alley it's been out for awhile i've been a little bit
behind on my arcs um this one isa very unique book Where people

(36:14):
get to like choose their owngods who they worship and the
gods kind of speak to them andgive them certain powers.
So like it follows Caris.
She's a death speaker who shelike.
made this deal with this god whowas like a three-phase hundred
wing unforgiving like entitywhere she can speak to the dead

(36:37):
for a certain contract so shecan make money off of it because
people hire her to figure outlike what happened with people
and all these things but shewill be sacrificed pretty soon
because her contract has beengoing on for quite a while and
she gets assigned to thisincident where all these people
washed up on a shore and she Sheaccidentally finds this secret

(36:59):
cave where they were doingcertain types of illegal
running.
And she runs into a man who isin danger of dying, except he
utilizes this type of magicalpower to keep him in the moment
before his death.
And she somehow binds him toherself in order to try to save
him for money.
And then he gets stuck in hershadow.

(37:21):
And it is a wild...
World building book.
I really like it.
It's really cool world building.
It's very unique and likeeverything that happens.
I will say that I enjoyed it.
I enjoyed it quite a bit, but Ithought that Kirsten Hall, the
author, did a little bit toomuch sometimes where there was

(37:42):
just so much going on that itwas hard to keep track of like.
It

SPEAKER_00 (37:46):
was like information overload.

SPEAKER_03 (37:48):
Yeah.
And like there were so manycharacters and like, so that's
the setting of it.
And it's such an effectivesetting.
But then we go like into thecity where she's living and we
meet this one character and thenwe have to go to another town
and then we have to go to herhometown for a while and then
we're back to the original townand then we're traveling.
through these under and likethere's so much scene setting

(38:08):
that i kind of wish we had hadlike more Like less like scenes
and more like flow for the booksbecause it's like only 427 pages
and it moves around a lot.
So there were certain timeswhere and I will admit this book
took me a while to read justbecause it was on my Kindle and
like so many other things aregoing on.

(38:30):
So like sometimes I got a littlebit lost in the details because
it was so like random and howmany different places.

UNKNOWN (38:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (38:38):
We moved around.
But overall, it was a reallyeffective story.
I liked some of the characters.
There is a character from herhometown who gets blessed by a
god.
Small spoiler.
And she has a moment where shelike...
has never left her hometown soshe has to go into these big
worlds and she's like been giventhis thing that's very important

(39:01):
in her town and then she goesinto these other spaces and
everyone kind of treats her likeshe's useless and it's like very
hard on her and i reallyappreciated that character
because i don't think it's onewe get to see very often like
with how vulnerable it made herlike i think a lot of times when
we see characters like thatthey're kind of just like Sure.

(39:50):
But it was...
Like this book was very good.
I enjoyed a lot of it.
I just wish there were likesmall changes made because then
I would have adored this book.
So that's another one I've beenreading.
And then for watching, Irecently rewatched Gone Girl.

SPEAKER_00 (40:05):
Oh, okay.
How was that?

SPEAKER_03 (40:07):
For double feature.
It's a long movie.
Like that movie is so long.
But I think

SPEAKER_00 (40:12):
I haven't watched it since I think I'm close to when
it came out.

SPEAKER_03 (40:16):
I watched it in theaters and I hadn't rewatched
it.
I've listened to a couplepodcasts in the interim because
Because a lot of people who lovemovies love Gone Girl.
I mean, it's a David Fincherfilm.
He did Zodiac and all thosetypes of things.
Lots of people love those.
I

SPEAKER_00 (40:31):
think Gone Girl also is one of those books that was
like, I kind of blame Gone Girlfor a lot of the thriller genre.
You do have

SPEAKER_03 (40:38):
a lot of resentment

SPEAKER_00 (40:39):
for Gone Girl.
Here's the thing.
I loved it when it came out.
That was one of the books that Iread in college.
And I credit that with like...
keeping me in reading, honestly,because I loved that one.
But I think that it was one ofthose things people were chasing
Gone Girl, like everyone wantedto be the next Gone Girl.

(40:59):
And so it's not Gone Girl'sfault.
It's not Gillian Flynn's fault.

SPEAKER_03 (41:04):
But it is something we blame Gone Girl for.

SPEAKER_00 (41:06):
But I will blame Gone Girl.
I won't blame Flynn, but I blameGone Girl.

SPEAKER_03 (41:11):
But you know what?
That girl doesn't care becauseshe gone.
The

SPEAKER_00 (41:14):
girl who is gone.

SPEAKER_03 (41:15):
It is the

SPEAKER_00 (41:17):
girl who is gone.
I

SPEAKER_03 (41:18):
do really, I think that movie is really good

SPEAKER_00 (41:28):
upon

SPEAKER_03 (41:35):
rewatch.
with like a risque college girlshe had the no offense to this
woman no hate to her she had thebiggest nipples I've ever seen a

(41:55):
woman have I remember I was sodistracted in the theaters where
I was like what's happening solike it brought me back to law
school days but it is a reallygood adaptation I think when I
originally saw it I was like sodisappointed that they like cut
out the one girl character wholike Amy convinced was like

(42:17):
convinced her to like wear wearher hair like her and did all
these things.
And then she was stalking her.
I always was like super mad thatthey got rid of that character
because that showed that likeshe was a devious person
overall.
But and so like putting myselfback in that headspace, I think
when I originally watched it waslike, this is not a faithful
adaptation.
And later in life, I'm like, no,it was really good.
It was really good.

(42:39):
So funny that Tyler Perry is inthat.

SPEAKER_00 (42:42):
I know.
But it

SPEAKER_03 (42:45):
was

SPEAKER_00 (42:45):
great.
The movie probably made a ton ofmoney because they probably used
like one of the Right.

SPEAKER_03 (42:52):
But it was just so well done.
I've learned so much about thatmovie, so re-watching it through
that lens was really intense.
And it's one of those where...
I think it's so good to watch itin 2025 because you're like,
yeah, Nick was such an assholeand kind of like he was
misogynist.
And I think when I originallyread the book, I didn't get that

(43:14):
flavor as much.
And then when I watched themovie originally, I kind of saw
it.
And now after listening topodcasts and kind of growing as
a person, I'm like, oh, no,

SPEAKER_00 (43:22):
he's terrible.
And the Ben Affleck role is justlike, eh.
Yeah.
I'm not a huge Ben Affleck fan.
I mean, me neither.

SPEAKER_03 (43:29):
That also kind

SPEAKER_00 (43:30):
of sours me.

SPEAKER_03 (43:32):
Yeah.
So I think like he definitely, Imean, he did a good job of
creating that character becausethat character is not great.
Yeah, it's really interesting torevisit that property.
So highly recommend.
It's a good movie.
It's a really good adaptation.
What was the other part of thedouble feature?
So the other one was Sleepingwith the Enemy with Julia

(43:58):
Roberts, which is a 1990s movie.
Oh my gosh, Laura.
It is one of the funniest moviesI've ever seen because it's
terrible.

SPEAKER_00 (44:06):
Is it trying to be funny or no?
No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 (44:09):
So this is a movie where Julia Roberts has a
husband who's abusive and so thebeginning of the movie is like
my wife can't swim and that ishow he does his line readings
because so much had to be ADRbecause they're like sitting by
the ocean but like he can't ADRto save his life um which is
where you're like trying to talkover what you said in the movie

(44:30):
uh later and so he's like he andhis wife go out on a boat and
she can't swim so she falls overthe side of the boat and you
find out that she has beentaking swimming lessons and she
fakes her own death um Um, Sheis really bad at faking her own
death because like she leaves somany crumbs.
Like it is a very 90s movie.

(44:52):
I would say it's like it fitinto the Gone Girl theory of
like faking your death and doingall these things.

SPEAKER_00 (45:00):
I was wondering how it tied in, but you cleared that

SPEAKER_03 (45:02):
up.
Yeah, but she runs away andimmediately her next door
neighbor is like this collegeprofessor and 90s movies are
wild because like you and I justtalked about like Gone Girl and
how like misogyny is likeunderlying.
Her love interest at one pointis like, your name isn't really
Sarah.
I know that your husband didsomething to you and I deserve

(45:22):
to know your real name.
And it was like, no, you don't.
You don't know this woman.

SPEAKER_00 (45:27):
Why do you need to know her real name so much?

SPEAKER_03 (45:29):
Why would that be a thing?
And he was like, mysister-in-law was like, you
know, upon rewatch, this man isa huge creep.
And I'm like, yeah, but he'ssupposed to be the love
interest.
There's also a four minutemontage of them just trying on
clothes in the drama departmentfor his college and dancing
around no reason random and theman who plays her husband is

(45:50):
like so old and he has the worstlike my wife is mine you know
like his line reading is insaneand like he they made him act a
lot with his face and he was notskilled enough to do that so it
was a very funny movie to watchI was dying at the beginning
because They have Julia Robertsdigging for clams.

(46:15):
And she like has this bucket.
And they obviously like had heron a soundstage with like a
green screen behind her.
Because they have these pelicansright behind her.
And Laura, they are like twofeet from her.
Where any person in a real worldsituation would be like, I don't
want these pelicans near me.
But she's just like digging forclams.

(46:35):
It's so funny.
It's weird.
So yeah, highly recommend thatmovie.
Everyone go watch it.
okay uh it's on hulu so it isfrom 1991 one of

SPEAKER_00 (46:47):
these movies was really great and the other one
hannah was like it's terribleand hilarious go watch it

SPEAKER_03 (46:53):
uh she at one point she is with a love interest and
she goes i just need a fewminutes to freshen up and she
takes a bath a bath that's a fewminutes She comes out with her
hair tried.
I'm like, she tried her hair.
That's rude.
it's so funny so the loveinterest is he's a drama

(47:18):
professor and so what her shethinks her husband's I'm ruining
so much of this movie but itmade me laugh so hard her
husband has like OCD so he likeneeds all the cans facing the
same way and he needs all thetowels

SPEAKER_00 (47:31):
so like stereotypical OCD

SPEAKER_03 (47:33):
same size and stuff like that so she's in the house
and she wonders if he's thereand like the first time she
opens the cabinets all the jarsare fine but the second time she
like opens them And they're allfacing it.
She's like, oh, no.
You change them within 10seconds.
And then she, like, tries to,like, at first, A, her
husband...

(47:53):
has sex with her to the shiningsoundtrack song like you know
the instrumental one which is socreepy so she like that's a red
flag in itself right so she putson the music and it's there and
she's like haha love interestedit as a joke she said she hated
that sound and then she seesthat the towels have all been
fixed and she's like oh no andshe goes downstairs the cans are

(48:14):
all facing forward and then shegoes to run out the door the
boot box has been moved in frontof the door and i was like could
you imagine because like in thereality of this film This man is
just running around the houselike fixing things and

SPEAKER_00 (48:27):
moving the box.
And I like made the joke whereit's like...
I love that that's a nightmarethat like someone going around
and organizing things is anightmare.
Like I would pay to have someonecome to my house and do this.

SPEAKER_03 (48:40):
But I made the joke where he's like, he's running
around being like, I heard youlike the theater now.

UNKNOWN (48:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (48:49):
So yeah, it was a

SPEAKER_03 (48:50):
very funny movie.
That poor man could not act withhis face and they made him do
that, which is just unfair.
So his wife could not swim.
So should we talk about anotherman who likes the theater and
drama?

SPEAKER_00 (49:06):
Lots of drama.

SPEAKER_03 (49:08):
Let's dive

SPEAKER_02 (49:09):
back

SPEAKER_03 (49:09):
in.
They came in the night.
I do like that this is called awhy choose paranormal romance,
which means there's just lots ofsex with lots of different
people.
So good for you.
Oh,

SPEAKER_01 (49:21):
it's

SPEAKER_03 (49:21):
called a

SPEAKER_01 (49:22):
what?

SPEAKER_03 (49:22):
It's called a why choose paranormal romance, which
is like you don't have to choosethe love interest.
You get all.
You get all of them.

SPEAKER_00 (49:30):
And we

SPEAKER_03 (49:30):
do.
We do.
We do.
I

SPEAKER_00 (49:33):
thought you said YA

SPEAKER_03 (49:35):
romance and I

SPEAKER_00 (49:37):
was like, what?
Excuse me?
I do.
do not think so.
As you take

SPEAKER_03 (49:42):
out the giant dildo.

SPEAKER_00 (49:44):
I'm just like, are you kidding me?
There's like mentions of knots.
I

SPEAKER_03 (49:49):
like that I went for a dildo and Laura's like, knots,
Hannah.
Last time we left, a man hadbeen martyred at poor Izzy's
hands.
And she is feeling really guiltyshe is feeling terribly guilty

(50:11):
in this section she feels guiltybecause like nin is trying to
come in and take care of her andnin's mom has just been signed
away to this horrible uh likeright-handed right-hand man to
octavius so she thinks ninblames her and she's like well
she should um and she's reallyjust feeling sorry for herself
saying she should have knownOctavius was this bad.

(50:33):
All these types of things.
A horrible situation.
She didn't know vampires existedthree months ago.
How would she know he was justthis evil?
Also,

SPEAKER_00 (50:43):
the timeline of this book.
We're in books with wildtimelines, honestly, because we
went from Legendborn to this andI'm like, how much time has
passed?

SPEAKER_03 (50:52):
Where are we at?
It could be five hours.
You just don't know.
I have no idea.
I'm

SPEAKER_00 (50:56):
like,

SPEAKER_03 (50:57):
are we still in the same week?
so sel comes in and they bothhave sel the vampire and they're
both sel there's too manysimilarities um and sel comes in
and he's like princess you needto train and be worth your while
and

SPEAKER_00 (51:13):
she's like i just took a shower

SPEAKER_03 (51:15):
and he's like i don't care and she's like okay i
guess and i was like i too wouldhate working out after a shower
that sounds like put

SPEAKER_00 (51:21):
your foot down you don't have to work out

SPEAKER_03 (51:25):
no one can force you to work out also she should be
like you have heard me showeryou decided to make the like
most inconvenient time

SPEAKER_00 (51:33):
he's always creepily listening outside her door so
right he probably

SPEAKER_03 (51:38):
has super hearing he should be able to hear it um but
anyway

SPEAKER_00 (51:42):
i do love how he calls her out on like she's like
i know how to defend myself he'slike No, you don't.
You suck at it.
Like, I

SPEAKER_03 (51:49):
kicked your ass so many times.
Vampires, you idiot.
Like, it's different.
So they go and they fight andshe is bad at it.
Yeah, quite bad.
But then Nin comes to get herand she's like, your parent is
like asking for you.
And Nin and Izzy have a heart toheart where, you know, Izzy

(52:11):
apologizes and Nin's like, Iknew what I was getting into.
I don't think you actually knewwhat you were getting into.
So like this was a decision youhave nothing to feel guilty

SPEAKER_00 (52:18):
about.
You missed the part though,doesn't she when she's like with
Sel doesn't she feed off of himat one point

SPEAKER_03 (52:25):
oh yeah because like there's been so much action and
she's so weak that he does haveher feed off of him so

SPEAKER_00 (52:35):
that she can get stronger

SPEAKER_03 (52:37):
and she does she always likes feeding off blood

SPEAKER_00 (52:42):
sorry I just had to mention that

SPEAKER_03 (52:45):
because Laura loves talking about vampires I

SPEAKER_00 (52:49):
love vampires That's

SPEAKER_03 (52:53):
me.
They also do a rundown of Izzy'slittle sexcapade with Darcy and
Tatum.
And, you know, they kind of justhead towards Zaziel and Zaziel
and Izzy have a heart whereshe's like, well, I didn't leave
because I didn't want to leavewithout you.

(53:13):
And Zaziel's like, well, youhave to get out.
You have to protect yourself orlike you have to get harder and
play the game.
and Zaziel points out that Izzyis descended from both sides
heaven and hell coexist kind oflike a perfect balance and she
can bring the world to its knees

SPEAKER_00 (53:35):
I do think it's also interesting too like there's a
point and maybe you said thisand I was too focused on like
remember the vampire feeding butsorry but Zaziel like says
something about Like her leavingand she mentions like she's not
going to leave without herparent.

(53:55):
And Zaziel's kind of shocked bythat.
Zaziel

SPEAKER_03 (54:00):
has been abused horribly so long that they just
like want to save Izzy no matterwhat.
And Izzy is like, no, you're myparent.
I love you and I want to makesure you're

SPEAKER_02 (54:09):
protected.

UNKNOWN (54:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (54:11):
Then we shift on over to maybe an hour, maybe
five days, who knows, where Ninand Izzy are getting ready for
dinner.
And this is where Izzy startstrying to find out more about
the cathedral so she can getblood from the fountain in

(54:31):
there.
What's his name?
Ja wants her to.
Oh, yeah.
It's

SPEAKER_00 (54:42):
like Electra.
What is it?
Oh, gosh.

SPEAKER_03 (54:45):
Raj or something?
I

SPEAKER_00 (54:46):
forget.
Raj.
Raj.
Yes, it's Raj.

SPEAKER_03 (54:49):
Because Raj asked her to in the last section.
We find out that Nin's notreally religious, but Octavius
is super duper religious, and heloves going to that fountain.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_00 (55:00):
and there's this fountain with this eternal being
that has this very special bloodthat ties them to...
Particularly Octavian.

SPEAKER_03 (55:09):
The internal being was definitely in that chapel
when she and Tatum were fucking.

SPEAKER_00 (55:16):
I mean, and doesn't say anything.

SPEAKER_03 (55:18):
Just sitting there, just

SPEAKER_00 (55:18):
like,

SPEAKER_03 (55:20):
none of my business.

SPEAKER_00 (55:21):
Okay.
Yep.
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (55:25):
Yep.
Okay.
Okay.
Yep.
Yep.
Okay.
No questions.
Got it.
Okay.
So, Like Izzy starts saying shehas some interest in finding out
more about that.
Nin did say that she's notreally allowed into certain
services because of her likeplace as a damn peer.

(55:46):
So that also plays into it.
Then they go down to dinner andIzzy starts falling in line with
her father and he makes herliterally bow before him with
her like face to the floor forhours.
I mean, he's just a toxic,disgusting.
He's a dick.
Like he's awful.
Yeah, he's terrible.
And so she does it.

(56:07):
She needs to play along.
Then he lets her up and says shehas to go feed.
And she feeds on this personnamed Sam, who's a thrall.
And so she feeds on her.
They have a little sexy sex.
And later she talks to Sam aboutlike.
being a thrall and we find outthat Sam is a sex worker she was

(56:30):
a sex worker before this and shesigned up for this because it
was a lot of money um and itcould pay off like her student
loans and things like that andshe was like well like I know
that money corrupts but like atleast with this I know how bad
it can get and you know I maynot remember it she also like
notes that sometimes her memoryis taken away from her when it
is really bad um and so um Izzyasks Sam if it's better if she

(56:55):
claims her because if she claimsher, no one else can touch her
as Octavius's daughter.
But she did mention that likesometimes you get money from
people if they like you.
And she's like, well, I can'tget you a diamond encrusted
costume for like sex play.
So I'm probably not the person.

(57:15):
I won't mark you for that.
So it's kind of like adiscussion of like actually
having consent and discussingwhat's best for the person.
I

SPEAKER_00 (57:22):
kind of like all of that actually.
And I thought it was interestingto just like– There's mentions
of like her blood and how ittastes different compared to
like the other beings.
We know I'm not like super bigon vampires.
However, this was interesting tome that like there's different
like kind of levels and feelingsand power that are associated

(57:44):
with like the different types offeedings.

SPEAKER_03 (57:46):
Which makes sense because really all she's been
feeding on are like vampires orNephilim.
So yeah.
It's going to taste different tojust have normal human blood.
I

SPEAKER_00 (57:56):
do like, though, that she is always very much
concerned about the well-beingof people in her surrounding
space.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (58:04):
Well, and then she has to go meet the eternal being
and get the blood from Zem.
And so she meets them.
They are...
horrifying they're like oldschool vampire it

SPEAKER_00 (58:21):
makes me think of like what we do in the shadows

SPEAKER_03 (58:27):
what's his name i can't remember i forget his name
but like oh he's the he's likefalling apart yeah he's not the
emperor but like the i forgetthe baron is the baron yes the
baron he's so funny i loved thatso much um

SPEAKER_00 (58:42):
this is what it makes me think of where it's
just like parts

SPEAKER_03 (58:45):
of them are falling off they have like a huge
flaccid dick and like it's justit's a whole thing and so my
husband just walked in and gaveme a very strange look um walk
back out we are in the middle ofsomething this is important um
but she takes some of the bloodin the fountain after uh jay

(59:08):
like feed it to her and shenotes that it's probably filled
with hallucinogenics because shehas this like out of body like
weird experience of burnout Andshe comes to and Octavian's
like, did you see it?
The end that awaits us?
And you're like, ooh, you're acreepy religious man, aren't
you?
Which

SPEAKER_00 (59:27):
this all very much makes sense to me with the
vampire thing because this isall, I feel like, very much tied
where vampires have this...
like connect deep connection tothe blood and their creator and
creation and everything so thiswas very on point for vampires

SPEAKER_03 (59:42):
well like she points out that like Octavian thinks
that they come from the fallenangels who were sent to like
help humans or something and itjust got like darkened and
things like that so becausethey're

SPEAKER_00 (59:53):
supposed to be like protectors of humans right

SPEAKER_03 (59:56):
yes and so she has a moment where she's like I just
want my father to be proud of meand he's like well welcome into
the fold no that i know you'lldo everything i want to do um
but we do find out that like ishe kind of buys into this
religious acts aspect like it'shard not to for her where she
feels like a little bit drawn toit with this eternal being

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:18):
she's kind of convinced honestly it's one of
those deals where it's like youstart looking into something and
you're like i'm in too deep

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:25):
she's like well it kind of makes sense even though
i'm just trying to get the bloodout for them um And so she is
just kind of doing her thing.
She's building up, working outat the gym, doing everything she
has to to make a connection withOctavius.
And...
Sorry.

UNKNOWN (01:00:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:45):
He also at one point she's like talking with him and
he's feeding her parent and hesays that they have had enough.
Oh, yeah.
This is sickening because like.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's really disgusting.
And so she like tries to standup for Zaziel and Zaziel has to
step in and be like, don'tworry.
I'm yours.
You control me.

(01:01:06):
It's OK.
And we find out that like it'sstill really hard for Izzy to do
this, but she is behind enemylines right now.
So.
She also starts talking to Salmore and figuring out that like
he's not into all of this asmuch as he seems to be.
He does have like some kind ofissues with the way like Dan
Pierce or.

(01:01:26):
treated but she gets her firstassignment to impress daddy and
it's killing a judge who'sholding up something for her or
for their clan he has like thishearing that he's been putting
like off and off and off and healso knows that it's a vampire
so he's hiding himself in afortress deep in the grim
heretics area so she has to hidein like hide a cell go to the

(01:01:52):
bunker and get in um we find outof course this man loves a good
sex worker so she's able to getin that way um she can enter as
a dampier because vampires dostill need to be invited in um
which is kind of hilarious i doi do always like when you still
have those rules like i thinkthat that's a very

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:11):
i mean we do get a lot of like classic vampire feel
here in this book i feel likeeven though there are a lot of

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:19):
new age, like

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:20):
new things happening.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:22):
Um, Well and she does find out that he does have
the grim heretics like being themuscle because there's a
security guard.
I do think it's funny thoughbecause all of those security
are there and she like walksdown this hall and she just
drops a welcome mat down becausethat could like have vampires
come in.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:37):
I was going to say that was a hilarious thing where
it's just like a welcome matcounts.
We don't need to.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:42):
It's implicit.
She drops it.
I'm like you think they would bewatching the video and be like
don't do that.
That invites vampires.
Right.
And she's like I thought thatwas hilarious.
I was like, what?
They're terrible at their jobs.
And we find out that they areterrible at their jobs.
We find out that they areterrible at their jobs.
because she just out buys theircontract with the grim heretic

(01:03:05):
she's like um would you kill himfor me and they're like no we're
not gonna kill him for you butwe will let you kill him because
you paid us more money and she'slike oh okay um deal so they
just walk out uh she calls himmr fuchsia his name uh i forget
his name he's not incredibly

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:23):
it's like anastasia but he goes by

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:27):
um He goes by Stassi.
And so they all head out thedoor and then it's just a
struggle between her and thejudge because she let him wait
too long after they dazed him.
And she ends up killing him bylike putting her hands through
his eyeballs and into his brain.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:42):
It's very much Game of Thrones.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:44):
And Sel comes

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:46):
in.
And she's very grossed out byit.
And she was like, I still haveeyeball on me.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:50):
Well, I think she vomits.
So like, yeah, it's veryharrowing.
So Sel comes in and he's like,go get some air.
I'll clean up.
And she goes and she gets morethan air.
This was shocking.
She gets a little bit ofbestiality.
Is it bestiality if it's awerewolf?
These are the questions I askedin this section.

(01:04:13):
I think

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:14):
we can say yes it is because there's pause.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:16):
If I had a nickel for every time a werewolf-like
being fucked a person in a bookthat I've read this year, I'd
have two nickels, which isn't alot, but it is weird that it's
happened twice.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:27):
I mean...
There's a lot of books likethis, I

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:30):
think.
So she and Raj definitely havesex when he's in a werewolf
form.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:37):
Lots of claws, lots of hair.
He is huge in many ways.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:42):
Huge.
It's very tight and all thosedifferent things.
But they finish.
He turns back into himself andhe's like, wow, that was really
good.
Then Sel comes up and he's

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:57):
like, oh, go ahead.
this is that it's just like sosudden i was just like not
expecting it where it was justlike she's like i just literally
think i need a moment i just ijust killed someone i just gotta
go and then all of a suddenshe's like boom sex and you're
like what

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:13):
you know when the adrenaline is pumping because
you realize you're alive laurathen it's still pumping in
different

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:19):
ways i think there'd be some questioning of it though
like

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:21):
what's happening how oh okay

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:24):
um

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:25):
But Sel comes upon them after, you know, other
things have come and theydefinitely know each other.
Like there are just indicationsthat they were definitely in
love at some point in time.
And so she leaves with Sel andwe find out that Raj is the

(01:05:45):
reason he's a vampire.
They were in love.
Like Raj started showing up athis door.
They started hanging out and heseemed to be like this dark,
tortured creature.
And then Octavius found outabout Sel and said that he had
to turn him...
Octavian.
Oh, Octavian.
Sorry.
I think I've been calling himOctavius.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:02):
And I just saw the name.
It's Ekaraj.
So it's Raj.
Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:06):
So...
Octavian gave Raj an ultimatumlike either he would kill his
entire family or he had to turnSel so Sel was turned to a
vampire

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:16):
which kind of explains some of the like more
meh feelings that Sel has abouthis situation

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:23):
yes and he also said like it was really frustrating
because once he was turned theywere different social structures
because Raj was a dampier so itwas looked down at the fact that
they had a relationship in thefirst place so it all just
became too complicated and Rajleft and made the heretics
afterwards so

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:37):
he

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:37):
Abandoned him.
But then he's also like, youhave to go shower.
You smell.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:44):
You smell like him.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:45):
It's so bad.
And so then he brings the headto Octavian to show that she did
it.
She made it all, you know.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:57):
you are my daughter i'm so proud of you he was

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:01):
so so proud um and so she keeps training especially
with

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:06):
the removal of the eyes he's like you did this
she's

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:10):
like it sounds like she's messy just like you um
It's just, yeah, a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:18):
This is where it's like a little bit of the like
sucking up to Octavian that isnecessary.
I get it.
It was just a little bit likebleh.
I don't like that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:28):
And so this is also where she starts questioning
self like, hey, you're just notquestioning a power structure
that benefits you.
That's really fucked up.
All these different things.
And she also gets invited toNin's family's dinner.
And they come in and Marius isthere trying to make a claim on
Willa because he's like it'sreally weird where he's like we

(01:07:50):
have to have sex right nowbecause I claim you and it's
just like you could have waitedtill later like technically she
had already agreed to this butbecause he's acting like this
Izzy steps in and she's likethese are my people I am
Octavian's daughter they arepart of my crew and you cannot
touch them anymore we also findout that she

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:11):
becomes a part of the law and then Doesn't Marius
claim...
nin

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:18):
then marius tries to claim nin at the time at that
moment he's like well i will ismine he doesn't claim nin quite
yet um that's in another chapterbut okay she says i claim willa
i claim her entire family i'moctavian's daughter that trumps
whatever claim you had and shealso points to she becomes a
lawyer in this book where she'slike all of her the vampire

(01:08:40):
rules are important and youcannot make progeny without the
person's like approval And Willahas not given that to you.
And so then they have dinner.
Awkward.
Yeah.
And then, you know, she gets togo to the sex club finally.

(01:09:03):
Because Octavian is bringing hisdaughter to a sex club.
Real normal stuff.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:08):
Yeah.
Seems like father-daughterthings.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:10):
To meet with, like, the siren and the alpha...
werewolf and the witches aboutthe Grimm clan and how they've
like been doing all this stuffand they need to be taken care
of.
And it's kind of just like apolitical thing where they're
discussing like how do we handleimports and exports because the

(01:09:31):
Grimm heretics have beenstealing everything.
And Octavian asks Izzy how shewould handle it.
And she's very diplomatic in heranswer being like, well, you
guys will do all of this.
And then they're like, well,what will you guys do?
And she's like, not for you tobe concerned with.
And it gives Octavian the like,oh, I can step in and rub a few
elbows with this.

(01:09:52):
So he's very impressed withthat.
And then he sends her off to.
have sex with Darcy and Tatumagain and during this time they
all agree that they are in arelationship but it is open
which is good because you knowwerewolf sex doesn't come around

(01:10:14):
all the time I mean it does hereyeah it does you are right but
yeah she feels very close tothem and it's going great and

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:27):
that was what also a very long chapter where there
was a lot of puppy stuff

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:33):
but I was like puppy

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:34):
okay

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:35):
they have a lot of nicknames for each other in
these books then she I'm not bigon nicknames I'm also not big on
nicknames I said once that Ithink someone calling someone
else daddy is the funniest thingyou could ever put during sexy
talk it makes me laugh everytime I read it I can't take it
seriously this chapter has puppyall over it and puppy um so then
we shift over to later in timewhere she's with the werewolves

(01:10:59):
as they're getting ready forlike a shipment to come in um oh
and in the last chapter she hadhad a mascara tube that she
dipped in blood and she gave itover oh yeah heretics um so yeah
that happened um we also findout in the section that like
Octavian stepped in during theAlpha's last fight and made

(01:11:21):
Serena the lead Alpha, and shewouldn't have gotten the
position without him, so he'spretty important to them.
Mm-hmm.
But during this like dock wherethey're watching the shipment
and she's with Tatum, theheretics pop back in and shoot
at her.
Oh, we also met a Fae in thebook.

(01:11:42):
I'm sorry.
So much stuff happened.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:44):
I was going to say there are Elfin people that are
mentioned.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:46):
there are Elfin Fae.
They're like the Unseelies andthey're like behind this barrier
that they can't get out.
So it's believed that Octaviankind of controls the gateway to
that So that's another thingthat's kind of up in the air.
But yeah, the Grimm hereticscome to the wharf because, of

(01:12:07):
course, they do.
And they kidnap her.
And she's just kind of like,Raj, what's going on?
And he's like, well, I needed tohave a division to come talk to
you.
And he starts telling her kindof what his plan is for
Octavian.
So Octavian cannot die.
Every time he dies, he's reused.

(01:12:28):
into the blood in the pool so bygiving her the by giving them
the blood they can kill off hislink to the pool and he cannot
be reborn again this is alsoprobably how zuriel and um zazel
um

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:46):
they had to use like part of her blood though right
to

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:50):
Oh yeah, he did have to get part of her blood to have
connection.
Because they

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:54):
couldn't obviously get Octavians because he is very
careful about not letting peoplefeed from him and stuff like
that because he's very paranoid.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:01):
Right.
And so he has to get blood fromher in order to kind of put this
through.
And this is when she tells Rajabout the catacombs and how he
can break in and take over.
He also kind of tells his sideof the story with Sal where he's
like, well, I fell in love withhim.
I was ready to run.
I wanted us all to run.
But he said no.
He couldn't leave his family andthey couldn't leave.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:22):
And he was like in a very dark space, too, at the
time when they met andeverything.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:27):
And he just really wanted to die at that time
because he was a dampier and hekind of knew that he was, he's
like the likelihood of everbeing turned into a vampire was
so low.
And like once Sel became avampire, it just became too
dangerous.
So like I had to leave and getout and it did inspire me to try
to fight against this.
And so he has a little bit of adifferent view than Sel does.

(01:13:52):
Yeah.
And, you know, they kind of justchit chat about

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:55):
that.
I actually liked Raja's story alittle better.
I mean,

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:58):
Raja's, it's more compelling because he's just
like, well, I know how much Selloved his family.
It's been years.
Because she's like, well, maybehe'll forgive you if you kind of
explain where you were comingfrom.
And he's like, no, it's beenyears.
It's too much water under thebridge.
I'm like, yeah, it's been years.
So you guys could probably talkabout it.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
And she...

(01:14:20):
He's like, we don't have enoughtime for sex.
And she's like, what a damnshame.
So...
She's still kind of just hangingout being a subterfuge, like
sneaky sneak.
She's building rapport with herfather, with the Exalted.

(01:14:41):
The Exalted is kind of like thisweird being who's like, someone
calls for you.
And then Sam comes running andshe says that Marius is trying
to take Nin.
He wants to claim

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:52):
her as his own.
This is where it was.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:54):
Okay.
Yes.
And he's trying to like forceNin pretty much.
He's trying to make her...
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

(01:15:15):
And so they race to get Nin outof the tower so that she can
regroup and take care of thiswhile Nin is away.
Because if Nin's there, it'sjust too much of a pressure
cooker.
There's too much of a chance ofMarius taking control over her
and doing all these things.
So Sel helps get them out andgets her to a safe house with

(01:15:36):
Raj.
And for some reason, Izzy islike, I have to stay the night
and have sex with Raj.
I can't possibly go back

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:46):
I just need to mention though isn't the place
called like the Flamingo likethe Flamingo

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:50):
No, they meet at the Flame and Go because that was
the sandwich shop that theyoriginally were at.
And then they go to wherever hisplace is.
The Flame and Go was the shop.
But the place they're stayingback to our college days, Laura,
was the White Ho.
Yes.
We used to have a bar called theWhite Ho and it got shut down

(01:16:14):
probably for just way too muchbacteria.
Yeah.
But anyways.
So she stays with him and theyhave a little smoochy smooch and
sexy time.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:26):
It's more than a smooch.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:28):
And she goes back the next day.
Marius, and oh, I think at thispoint, Sel...
At one point, Sel did give hercell phones because he trusts
her.
But one of them is from Octavianand it was monitored.
So he sent that one to Darcy'shouse and Tatum's house so that
it looked like she was gettingher get on with two people that

(01:16:51):
Octavian would have been finewith.

UNKNOWN (01:16:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:55):
But anyway, so she goes back and she kind of has a
showdown with Marius where she'sjust like, I am the daughter of
Octavian.
I am better than you.
You are beneath me and you arenot going to act this way.
And she kind of brings up allthe legal stuff.
She

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:12):
gets out all the contracts.
She gets out all the contracts

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:16):
and she's like, you are in violation of so many
vampire laws.
It's ridiculous.
And she does literally rip hisheart out and eat it so that he
um oh because he was also tryingto torture um was this where he
was torturing cell um

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:32):
um i want we

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:37):
i feel like this is i feel like he was torturing
cell um

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:41):
no i think you're right yeah uh

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:44):
oh yeah so they are torturing cell and she um eats
his heart and she takes cell asher mate um And so she gets back
to her room.
She helps him feed off of her.
And he's like, this is the bestblood I've ever tasted.
And they immediately have sex.

(01:18:04):
Always the whiplash of like,you're

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:06):
on the brink of death.
It's just so fast that it justlike shocks me, I think, as a
reader, where I was like, howdid we get here?

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:12):
He was drinking her blood and it was the best thing
he ever tasted.
Exactly.
But

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:17):
it's like

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:18):
one fluid motion straight into sex.
Well, and they have like theangriest, I mean, of course,
because because it's cell, butthey have like the angriest sex
where they're just destroyingeverything.
Yeah.
And he's just in it.
It's like, you two didn't likeeach other all that much.
This is our enemies to lovers.
This is the enemies to lovers.

(01:18:39):
It's a why choose romance.
But the next day, her fathercomes in with Zaziel.
And she's kind of just like,they've never come into my
apartment.
And obviously, like, I've beenhaving sex everywhere.
Everything is broken.
And, oh, but before.
Before that, she gets to talk toher aunt, Zuriel, for the first

(01:19:04):
time.
And she asks Zuriel to come backand be bait against Octavian to
get him to come out of thetowers so that the Grim Heretics
can take him down.
So it's a whole thing.
But the dad, that's whenOctavian comes in.
He's like, you killed Marius.
We have to get him funeralrights.
He's owed that.
I won't make a big deal aboutyou killing him because he was

(01:19:27):
kind of a rough hang.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:30):
He kind of sucked, but whatever.

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:32):
And I'll see you at the funeral.
And then we have a chaptercalled A Brief Ninterlude where
Nin is just being the politestperson ever in a safe house
where she's just helping peopletend bar.
Yeah.
But she gets these like potionswhere she's a little bit of a
sneaky sneak.
And she's like, I'll helpdeliver these.

(01:19:52):
And she takes it and there'slike a cloaking spell.
And she feels like there'ssomething going on with Raj that
he hasn't really beenforthcoming with Izzy about.
And she wants to get back to himor get back to Izzy so that she
can warn her.
And

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:07):
she's kind of like sharing some dates to like, oh,
this happened.
And then this happened.
You need to know about Mariushad this happen, blah, blah,
blah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:15):
Yes.
And well, Darcy comes in andDarcy's like, I've come to take
you back to the tower.
Marius is dead and everything'ssafe.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:22):
Oh, that's who it was.
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:23):
Raj almost tries to make Nin stay and like, we don't
know if it's safe.
I want Izzy to be here.
And Darcy's like, no, youweirdo.
Like, I'm taking her with me.
She's not going to be heldagainst her will.
And so Darcy takes her back andit's all coming to a swift
conclusion because we go toMaurice's funeral and everyone's

(01:20:45):
just like hanging out, doingtheir last funeral rites.
Not caring.
Not caring.
Yeah.
which

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:52):
made me wonder like how did this person become this
important and like no one caresabout them like

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:57):
because it's one of those things where it's like the
the heartless rise with uhoctavian so because he's
heartless he went really reallyhigh um And so she's like, oh,
Stacio, come pray with me.
And they're just sitting therepraying.
And all of a sudden, the grimheretics show up.
And they're like, the Aramorclan falls today.

(01:21:19):
We're going to murder everyone.
So it's really random because,hey, Zeril didn't need to show
up.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:28):
I was wondering that, too.
Like, what was the point of evenmentioning that?
But whatever.

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:31):
Be Zuru.
Because Zuru also comes into theroom like, you were supposed to
be bait outside.
What are you doing in here?
And they're just like fighting.
They're trying to get Izzy totake a potion and get as far
away as possible.
And all of this stuff is goingon.
And like Izzy's trying to getZaziel to leave.

(01:21:54):
It's a whole mess.
Everyone's fighting witheveryone.
The pack

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:58):
is on the way.
Izzy's trying really hard tolike protect people and at the
same time like

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:02):
watch out.
I know.
It's like Darcy's there, Tatum'sthere.
Like all the people she's hadsex with are all here and she
wants to protect them all.
But she's also not being superhelpful because the heretics are
just taking down every one shegets frustrated she's like
you're not supposed to take downlike the people who are just
bystanders like this is awfulyou can't do this and so she

(01:22:27):
ends up fighting with Octavianbecause of course she does and
he's like flying her here thereand everywhere it's like very
action-packed sequence where shestarts like almost And he ends
up killing her where you allthink she's dead.

(01:22:47):
And we shoot back into Nin's POVwhere she's like, oh, my gosh,
this is all over.
Like everything's going to burn.
And then her angel side startstaking over.
And she starts burning with likekind of like a phoenix rising
from the ashes.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:06):
very much so.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:07):
And she is pissed.
Yeah.
And it does say chapter 49vampire plus Nephilim equals
Phoenix question mark.
And she ends up killingOctavian.
And she is able to because theydid cut off his source to the
blood.
So he's now done.
And she sees like the fightingis still going on.
Her people are in danger.

(01:23:28):
And so she...
shuts it down she's just likenope I am in control and you get
to take over who you kill forand so

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:37):
she very much just like kind of uses the whole like
claiming situation to be likeI'm going to use your own rules.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:44):
Yep.
And she says, I claimeverything.
And the heretics are going toleave.
And during this, Tatum's auntdid try to kill her, but Tatum
took her out.
So Tatum is now leader of thewerewolves because you have to
have the leader of the heretics,leader of the werewolves, her
mate, and then Darcy.
And so she sits down and she'slike, well, we're all done.

(01:24:07):
And then all of a sudden...
There's a dragon.
The last line is like, Is that adragon?
Fucking dragon.
And that's the end of the book.
So, romp of a time.
This was a fun book.
I had a good time.
I really liked it, actually.

SPEAKER_00 (01:24:26):
I know I complained that there was a lot of sex.
I thought it was a really funbook.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:31):
This is probably one of the biggest romps of an indie
mission we've ever done, whereit's just like, this is a fun
time.
I'm having a good

SPEAKER_00 (01:24:37):
time.
Lots of action, lots of stuffhappening.
I don't know that there was asingle time when I was reading
this where I was not locked inBecause I was very much like,
ooh, what happens next?
Because you know how sometimesyou're reading stuff, even
things that have a lot ofaction, and you're just like,
okay, action, action, action,action, action.
I was very much interested theentire time.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:59):
I mean, this is a fun urban fantasy.
You and I have read so muchDresden Files where we're like,
why did we have that chapter?
What happened?
And this one was like, no,they're all fun.
I'm here for it.
It really was a fun book.
The world building, like the Faeand the Nephilim and the Dampyr,
I think it adds layers tosocieties we don't often see in
these types of books that arediscussed.

(01:25:20):
And

SPEAKER_00 (01:25:21):
oddly, for as fast paced as everything was, I do
feel like the author did abackstories and a little bit of
depth, which I think is hard todo when things are happening at
this fast of a pace.

SPEAKER_03 (01:25:36):
Yeah, I agree.
Like, I really like the Cellcharacter.
I think he was a fun time afteryou

SPEAKER_00 (01:25:43):
got over the, like...
Kind of spreading everybody outand giving us some backstory
here for everyone.

SPEAKER_03 (01:26:00):
Well, the characters we know the least about are like
Darcy and Tatum, but like theyare there to support.
And like it's because shedoesn't get access to them very
much.
Like there's a reason shedoesn't get to know them as much
as she would

SPEAKER_00 (01:26:12):
like to.
Isn't this the first book in aseries?
So we might in future novelshave more on them.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (01:26:18):
But like I do like Raj.
I like Raj.
I like Sal.
I like like this is a very queernovel.
Happy Pride Month, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 (01:26:25):
I mean, this is a really solid first book in a
series, though, honestly.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:26:30):
So I think there's so much good in this book.
I think it's a lot of fun.
For people who like paranormalromances, it's one of the better
ones I think I've read.
You're going to get a lot

SPEAKER_00 (01:26:41):
of fun.
This is really solid for peoplewho are big fans of this genre.
I think if you're not used to alot of romance or paranormal
romance or urban fantasy, thisprobably isn't for you.
And this is a very popular genreat the moment, paranormal
romance.
I think a lot of people wouldreally dig this one.

SPEAKER_03 (01:27:00):
I and a lot of women who read a lot of paranormal
like romantic stuff or men oranyone who wants whoever

SPEAKER_02 (01:27:06):
yeah

SPEAKER_03 (01:27:07):
whoever wants to read it they usually like a lot
of like sex scenes and funthings and I think like the
author did a good job of makingit different at each and every
time like you and I talked yeahthere's a lot we didn't go into
it but like they are differentthere's different types of
things um there's a lot of justdifferent play it so I think it
works as a novel it's

SPEAKER_00 (01:27:26):
another thing is too it's like there's different
types of relationships happeningit's not all the same thing.
Maybe that's what you're gettingat.
I wasn't sure if it was justspecific sex or if it was the
differences in relationships,but I do think that there's some
good up and down in terms ofwhat's happening in terms of

(01:27:48):
who's involved and what actuallyis happening in terms of the act
itself.

SPEAKER_03 (01:27:52):
Well, and in it, there's so much...
I think that a lot of people...
don't get to read a lot of likesex communication, but there's a
lot of like communication aboutsex on the page where it's like,
what are you comfortable with?
What do you want to do?
Like, what's your like

SPEAKER_00 (01:28:06):
thing?
It's a book that's sex positiveand at the same time, like very
aware of like consent andknowing like we have to, like
you're saying, to make partiesaware of like, oh, we're open or
what have you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:28:23):
Yep.
And it is fun to be back in likecrime syndicate land where it's
like, oh, we're just in a Vegas.
Like this is fun.
It's interesting.
I will

SPEAKER_00 (01:28:34):
say the other thing that I did appreciate too, like
even though this is very muchlike a lot of sexy time
happening, the author does agood job of redirecting back
into the story where it's notoverwhelming, where we get, and
the chapters are fairly short,but we do like, kind of move
from one thing to the next at agood pace, but at the same time,

(01:28:57):
it's not like you feel like, ohmy gosh, I need a break.
The author does a good job ofkind of shifting into the next
chapter to kind of give you abreather and then move you back
into something else.

SPEAKER_03 (01:29:11):
I agree and there's so many different even
relationships outside of likethe romantic partners with like
Zaziel having like a parent whoyou're not really sure where you
can meet and also understandingthat like you want to have a
connection with this parent butsomething's keeping you away
from each other like

SPEAKER_02 (01:29:27):
that

SPEAKER_03 (01:29:27):
is a hard relationship to build off of and
I think it's effectively donewith the time space we get with
Zaziel and a good look at likedifferent like an abusive
relationship.
Like Octavian is a veryeffective villain because he is
corrupt down to the bottom.
He is not going, he's like soawful that like, that's where it

(01:29:47):
gets into its deepest horrorelements is when he's on the
page and the things that hedoes, or he allows to happen
through character.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:54):
Yeah.
The elements that are morerealistic to our, our world are
the ones that are more horrific,honestly.
And I, I like all those thingstoo.

SPEAKER_03 (01:30:04):
Yeah.
And just like having Izzy be acharacter who had to do bad
things.
I think in a lot of these books,there's always like a way to get
around it.
But in this, it's like, no,she's going to be morally gray.
She's going to act.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:14):
And she very much sits with her guilt.
And in this book, too, which Ithink is also kind of a like
unique thing.

SPEAKER_03 (01:30:22):
I agree.
I think there's just so muchdepth to her.
I was a little bit shocked insome of the chapters where she's
like, well, am I a serial killernow?
And I was like, I don't know ifI'd consider you a serial
killer.
And I'm like, well, technicallyshe's right.
She's sitting with guilt.
It's realistic where in somefantasy novels, I think people
are like, well, I feel bad thatI killed that person, but it was
out of my control.
And she's very much like, no, Ilive in a world very similar to

(01:30:45):
the real world.
That's awful for me.
So it's very driven by reality.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:52):
I really like this book, though.
I think it's super solid and areally good entry into this
series and sets it up reallywell.

SPEAKER_03 (01:31:03):
Something like a final note.
It's really good because I feellike sometimes vampire novels
are still like a little bit toosqueaky clean for people where
it's like, well, vampires havebeen around forever.
We always say like they're quoteunquote depraved, but it's
always like they're depraved inthe way Angel is depraved.
It's like he murders a lot ofpeople off screen, you know, and
it's like, no, this is actuallygoing to show what that could

(01:31:26):
look like.
It's going to be like aboutpeople.
Issues of consent, it's going tobe about those types of things.
So I do think that that was veryeffectively done.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:31:36):
And also, like we mentioned earlier, good nods to
like classic vampire stories aswell.
Because you mentioned like nodsto Dracula.
So

SPEAKER_03 (01:31:45):
cool.
Yes, there were definitely nodsto Dracula and what we do in the
shadows.
We'll have to ask Javi aboutthat and more next week when we
are joined by the authorthemselves.
We can't wait to discussfurther.
So please join us next week.
And while you're waiting, pleaserate, review and subscribe.
That's a great way of pushingpeople over to the podcast or

(01:32:07):
follow us at OWWRpod on all thesocial platforms, mostly Blue
Sky and Instagram.
Uh, you can also check out someof our work at our pod.com, uh,
and email us at our pod atgmail.com or join us over on
discord.
If you want to chit chat, we'renot as active on there right
now, but, uh, if you want totalk to me about sleeping with
the enemy or gone girl, I'm herefor it.

(01:32:30):
So, uh, join us over on thereand we can just

SPEAKER_00 (01:32:33):
talk to me about Mickey 17.
Everyone come talk to me aboutthat adorable little alien baby.

SPEAKER_03 (01:32:37):
A better movie than sleeping with the enemy.
Uh, apparently I can't say, uh,watch it next week and then let
me know.
But yeah, join us next week aswe talk to the author for Indy
Mission.

SPEAKER_02 (01:32:49):
And thanks for listening today.

UNKNOWN (01:32:58):
Bye.

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.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Cold Case Files: Miami

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Indie Intermission Ep. 20- I blame the girl who is gone. (They Came in the Night)

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