July 15, 2023 • 24 mins
In this bonus episode, Sam Bailey performs a character analysis on Wesley Snipes from the 1995 Classic Waiting to Exhale. His character makes us root for him and question him simultaneously . What would you do if you were in this situation? When should one use the L word? What constitutes "emotional cheating." Join in as Once I Knew a Girl keeps the conversation going.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hello, welcome back to Once I Knew a Girl, a podcast
that explores...
navigating the complexities ofrelationships.
(00:36):
Putting some insight, alsosharing some experiences, some
of it's first person, secondperson, some of it's facts, some
of it's fiction, but I intend togive a subjective point of view
on what I believe are some ofthe challenges as well as
concerns as well as And thatwill bring you up to speed on
(01:05):
where we are.
And it is my hope and myintention to Each week, drop an
episode for you to check out,for you to discuss, for you to
share.
Now, if you check out the pastfew episodes, the first one was
about just how to navigate thecomplexities of relationships.
The second one was about once Iknew a girl who was hiding
(01:26):
something.
And then the last episode abouthigh maintenance.
So somebody saying, what is thisnext one about?
Well, I'm going to take a hugedetour.
A huge detour.
And sometimes you got to go withthe flow.
You got to let it happen.
And I like discussing concepts.
And sometimes when we see thingsin Hollywood, we see things in
(01:47):
movies, we say, well, if thathappened in real life, I would
do A, B and C and D.
Like we got a lot of Mondaymorning quarterbacks out there,
right?
It's easy to say what yourquarterback would do on Monday
morning, but you're not the one.
out there who has to deal withsix foot six, 275 pounds of
(02:08):
defensive end coming at you witharms extended, seven foot
wingspan and guys in the backready to intercept you and take
it the other way to the house.
So many things going on in yourmind.
So it's easy to say what youwould and would not do if you
were in that person's position,which the fact of the matter is,
is you aren't.
(02:30):
Because sometimes we don't knowwhat we would do until we're
actually placed in thatposition.
Well, I think I can irritatepeople at times because though I
am a very principled person, Ihave my thoughts, I have my
morals, I have my values,standards, all that.
I tend to stay open inconversation.
It bothers people, especiallypeople who have fixed thoughts
(02:53):
and say, this is just the waythat it goes.
Life has taught me otherwise,that there are things that are
just rarely black and white.
And even when you think they'reblack and white, they can shift
on you.
They can alternate and adjust.
There's a movie called Waitingto Exhale came out in the 90s.
I wish I had the correct date.
It might have been 92, 94.
(03:13):
My fact checkers will figure itout and get the exact date.
But this movie was about fourAfrican-American women.
I think it was Lila Rashan,Angela Bassett.
I forgot the other two in themovie.
I got their names.
See, I got to come more preparedto this.
But in the movie, I do knowAngela Bassett and Wesley
(03:35):
Snipes.
It's a scene in the movie.
Long story short.
Angela Bassett was divorced,went through a divorce in the
movie.
Her husband cheated on her andthey pointed it out and make
sure, you know, that it was witha white woman, which was a
double whammy for her.
And there's a scene after thedivorce court where her husband
(03:57):
kind of got over on her a littlebit.
She's at a bar and WesleySnipes.
This is not the Wesley Snipesfrom Blade or the Wesley Snipes
from Demolition Man orsomething.
Wesley Snipes from Art of War orThe Expendables.
This was smooth Wesley Snipes,you know, not New Jack City
Wesley Snipes.
He kind of slid up to the table.
(04:17):
They were smoking.
They were talking.
They were drinking.
And Wesley opens up aconversation.
And if you watch it on thesurface, you would think that
Wesley was hitting on her.
He was very smooth with his toneand he commenting on her
appearance, which most peopleinterpret today as hitting on.
Now, let me stop right here andsay, you can't really comment on
another person's appearancenowadays without it being
(04:39):
interpreted as you're trying tohit on me.
You can say, hey, you look nice.
Well, what does that mean?
Everything nowadays always hasto mean something more.
What happened to the days whereyou could say, hey, you look
nice in that dress or that fitsyou or that color matches your
skin tone or whatever you wantto say, but it's hard to do that
now because just the wayeverybody I'll say love is love.
(05:01):
Love doesn't need sex to belove.
And that's what we're dealingwith now.
Everybody thinks that feelingsautomatically lead into
something physical, which is nottrue.
Just like sex doesn't need loveto be sex.
People can have sex all the timewithout having love.
(05:23):
And you can love somebodywithout having sex.
Anyway, so as this scene isgoing on, Classic scene I've
seen a lot of times before, butI was having an argument with
someone, which I love to do.
I love intelligent debate.
And you can form your ownopinion on what you think in the
scene.
You got to go back and watch iton Wait and Exhale.
And Wesley slid up to Angela andthey begin to talk and converse.
(05:46):
And he was saying all thesethings and she began to tell him
that she was going throughdivorce almost a ways if to
counter him to say like, hey,stop hitting on me.
You know, I'm going throughdivorce.
And Wesley had to check her.
He was like, no, no, it's notthat.
I understand your trauma.
And some people argue at thispoint, were they trauma bonded?
(06:08):
You know, were they being bondedover their trauma, which that's
really a fragile way to start arelationship.
But he said, no, I have a wife.
She's dying.
And he tried to relate to her.
He said, I have a wife that'sdying and my wife is sick and
it's hard for me to watch her gothrough what she's going
(06:29):
through.
It's hard for me to watch herstruggle this way.
And she has cancer and she'sdying.
And they begin to talk.
And have conversation.
I love her deeply.
I've never loved a woman the wayI love her.
And you could almost see AngelaBassett's face drop as if to
say, oh, I thought this guy wascoming on to me.
But in Angela's defense, I couldsee how she might have
(06:51):
interpreted that way because ofhow the actual conversation
began.
And so it goes on.
And I guess they.
have a scene and they talk abouta lot of different things.
And then there's a scene wherethey end up at one of them's
hotel room.
I guess they were at a hotel.
He talked to, told her about howhe was a civil rights attorney
(07:13):
and they talked and, So theywere like, what are you going to
do tonight?
I remember when I first saw thisyears ago, I didn't understand
it as a teenager.
But the natural assumption isthey're about to go in there and
get it on.
Could have been a beautifulmoment.
Maybe she needed something fromhim.
He needed something from her.
Probably people do it all thetime.
(07:33):
They go their separate ways.
We'll never see this personagain.
So we'll just proceed fromthere.
And it just happens, right?
She seems like at this point,Angela's kind of suggesting what
should they do.
(07:53):
And Wesley begins talking abouthis wife again.
And he said, whatever we do, andthis is a quote from the movie,
just make it beautiful.
And then next thing you know,they close the door.
They go to another scene.
Then they cut back into thatsame scene again.
(08:13):
a little bit later.
And what we find is that whenthey cut back into the next
scene, again, they're fullyclothed in the bed, laying down,
cuddling all night long.
They slept in, in their clothes.
Now I didn't realize this when Iwas younger, but they were
spooning the entire night.
That's a strike.
(08:34):
I give you that, you know, youknow, they were cuddling, you
know, how they've been laying adifferent way, but, but she
needed to be held.
Maybe he needed to hold.
He talked about how his wifewasn't able to do things and
that had affected him.
So the argument that I'm makingtoday is, is that possible?
(08:56):
I mean, when we saw that yearsago when we were young, all of
the ladies were cheering forWesley.
He talked about his wife, andsome of you may not even know
how to feel about that.
I think the average person istorn because you're like, wow,
Wesley– talked about his wife.
He didn't play any games.
He said he would never leave hiswife.
He's there for his wife.
(09:16):
He loves his wife.
Well, then a lot of women say,well, why would you be sharing
these thoughts with anotherwoman?
Well, I think it's all abouttiming.
Maybe in another space and time,Wesley wouldn't.
We don't know what Wesley had todeal with.
We don't know how lonely he'sbeen.
We His wife died slowly, hasaffected him.
(09:37):
He was up front.
He wasn't playing games.
He wasn't using his sickness totry to take advantage of Angela.
Maybe it was just a moment.
I think a lot of women areguilty of that.
The same thing they accuse menof doing, of believing that
there's always some illintention.
You can't put a blanketstatement over any group of all
(09:59):
men are dogs.
No, just maybe the ones you'vebeen dealing with are all women
are like this.
No, just the ones that you areassociated with.
And so for that night, they mayhave had ill intentions because
it did look like that.
Angela expected for there to besomething to pop off.
And in this instance, Turn ofevents.
We would always think, well,it's the man that wants that.
(10:21):
Right.
But it was really Angela andWesley walked away from it and
she walked away from it as well.
You can see there was nopressure there.
But I think that that womenwould say that a man is or when
a man is emotionally involved oremotionally crosses the line.
(10:43):
with Angela or with the womanthat he's cheating.
Everybody has differentdefinitions of cheating.
Some people, you can't look atanother man or woman and you're
cheating.
Some people, if you havefeelings for them, you're
cheating.
For other people, it actuallyinvolves intercourse.
I think there's different levelsfor it.
You know, look up what it means.
It means different things todifferent people.
(11:03):
Now, when this story really getsinteresting is at the end of the
movie, she receives a letterfrom him and he begins to say
Bernadette or whatever name wasin the movie.
He was like, you know, I reallyfeel embarrassed saying this,
but I believe I fell in lovewith you one night.
And one night I fell in lovewith you.
And this is where it starts toconfuse us.
(11:25):
And the love I feel for you hasnothing to do with what I feel
for my wife.
And that makes women everywheremad.
How can he love his wife andthen catch feelings for her?
Bernadette, isn't that howeverything begins, right?
That even shouldn't be.
(11:46):
You catch feelings.
It's what you do with thosefeelings.
I think what gets a lot ofpeople in trouble is they want
to be in denial that they'veeven caught feelings.
And I mean, you got to applaudWesley in that case.
He was open.
He was honest.
He wasn't playing games.
And he just told her, I fell foryou.
But it's a weird dynamic, right?
(12:07):
You know, I wish I could talkback to people right now and
have you talk to me and hearwhat you say.
It's a weird dynamic to findyourself in a place where you're
saying, I feel for anotherperson, yet I'm not supposed to
feel for another person.
Because sometimes it's just thewrong time.
I got a chapter coming up,episode coming up, called Right
(12:28):
Girl, Wrong Time.
The right girl, oh, I seeeverything that...
I would want in a woman, butit's just the wrong time.
The timings don't match up.
It's not in our cards right now.
And he never said, I'm going toleave my wife.
He never said, as soon as shedies, I'm going to come be with
you.
He just said, that's exactly howI felt.
(12:50):
Maybe he fell in love with theinnocence.
Maybe he fell in love becausefinally, you know, it wasn't
about sex.
I think sometimes sex distortsthings because you can think
that you're in love withsomebody and you're not.
Because again, love is not abandage to cover a wound.
Just because you're in love withsomebody doesn't mean you have
to be in a relationship withthem.
(13:12):
And I'm talking aboutrelationship, even friendships
are relationships.
I'm talking about romantically.
What does that mean?
We don't know how to handleemotions.
We don't know how to handlefeelings.
We don't know how to processthem.
Matter of fact, we don't evenwrite letters anymore.
As I saw her reading thatletter, I was like, wow,
everybody sends an email or textor text or chats, but we don't,
(13:35):
it's something about pinning agood old fashioned letter and
dating it.
This is what I'm feeling.
And this is where I'm at.
And it's funny how we applaud aman for expressing how he feels,
but then we speak down upon himsaying it to a woman when he is
(14:08):
married.
Somebody says, Sam, what are youthinking?
I ain't saying nothing.
I'm just talking.
So don't try to interpret whatI'm thinking or what I'm keeping
the conversation open.
It's really not a conversation,but I know you're talking back
to me.
I know you're thinking at least,what would you do if you were
Wesley fellas?
What would you do?
(14:28):
And would you You fell in lovewith a woman one night and
probably maybe you could arguemaybe it wasn't love.
Maybe you just interpreted it aslove.
I heard a quote one time thatsays being listened to and being
in love are so closely relatedthat it's hard to tell the
difference.
Sometimes if you're listening tosomeone, they may fall for you
(14:49):
because they don't have anybodyto listen to them.
And maybe that could have beenit.
Maybe not.
she was engaged in what he hadto say because he was engaged
with what she had to say.
And maybe they found acommonality in that.
Maybe they bonded over theirbrokenness.
Maybe she gave him hope.
(15:11):
And that's what he said.
If I never see you again, ifthis letter never finds you, I
want you to know that you havechanged me.
What, what a What a climax.
You changed me.
That's what I wanted you toknow.
You changed me.
Love liberates, as Maya Angelousays.
Love says I love you, whetheryou're in China or Asia or
(15:34):
Europe.
Love doesn't know how to fail.
Love brings hope and optimismand encouragement.
Maybe it's the wording.
There's a difference betweensaying I love you, Bernadette,
and I am in love with you.
He said, I fell in love withyou.
And that made all the ladies gocrazy.
And he was smooth and he wastalking good, but don't express
(15:56):
his feelings, especially being amarried man.
Don't express your feelings.
And I guess, I don't know.
I guess that That's one of thosethings easier said than done.
Somebody said, well, Sam, whatwould you say?
What's your experience?
I'm not telling you.
No, I think things arecomplicated.
(16:18):
I think we in maturity at timeshave had to walk away from
situations and things that weredifficult.
There's head knowledge and thenthere's heart knowledge.
There's some things that youknow in your head and your heart
will tell you different.
But ignoring your head andlistening to your heart can get
(16:40):
you in trouble as well.
Some people don't.
Some people say, forget what Iknow.
Forget what the consequenceswill be.
I'll go on and follow my heart.
Sometimes it's successful.
Sometimes it's not.
But he says, you changed me.
And that's the bottom of theline.
And I like how The movie left ithanging, right?
(17:01):
I like movies that the guydoesn't always get the girl.
There's not a happy ending.
We don't know how it worked outbecause the cliffhanger leaves
us with suspense, leaves us tohave conversations like these.
What do you think is going tohappen?
Well, my assumption is just sayhis wife passes and at some
(17:21):
point in time, he reaches backout to the familiar, back to
somebody who in one nightimpacted his life in such a way.
that he said he fell in love.
And that's another conversation.
What is the difference betweenbeing in love and falling in
love?
Because again, semantics is bigwith most of us.
(17:42):
It's how we define things.
What's your definition?
What's your definition ofemotionally involved?
What's your definition ofinappropriate line being
crossed?
What's your definition ofcelebrating a man who praises
you His love for his wife yettells another lady that he loves
(18:02):
her while saying that the lovehe feels for her is nothing like
the love he feels for his wife.
Now, some of you would have beenmad because you would have said,
forget that.
You can't love me and your wife.
He didn't say he loves the same.
It's like, I don't love my wifethe same way I love my mom.
(18:22):
Those are different ways.
I don't love my daughters thesame way I love my mom.
take shapes in different formsand different levels and
different types, right?
So we know that there aredifferent types of love and it's
not a one size fits all.
So we would also have to knowwhat he meant by love.
(18:42):
Maybe he meant somethingdifferent.
We're always so quick to jump todefinitions and we're always so
quick to try to box in thingsthat That can't be boxed in.
You can't box in love.
I'm sorry.
I know we tried.
And then, too, we got to becareful not to project our
experiences on everybody else.
(19:03):
There are some people who havebeen hurt by relationships, by
situations.
And so they can't and won't saylove.
Won't say love because sayinglove is...
is to say hurt.
But let me tell you something.
If you've ever been in love, youcannot ever have really truly
been in love withoutexperiencing hurt.
(19:24):
Love, it hurt.
kind of join together because Ihave to love you so much that
you can hurt me at times.
But I'm okay with that.
It may not be intentional, but Iknow if you were to die or if
you were to walk out of my lifeor leave me or abandon me, it
would hurt.
That's how you know.
That's the difference betweencaring and being indifferent.
(19:46):
I tell my couples all the time,if you see your spouse being
indifferent, then you need to beBecause the fact that I'm still
emoting is the fact that I'mstill getting emotional about
what you're saying and what youare doing.
That lets or should let you knowthat I care a little bit.
But when I get to the pointwhere I don't say nothing, I
(20:06):
don't respond.
I can look at you, go the otherway, not act any act any
different than than any otherperson.
Then I know there is a problem.
The Wesley Snipes story.
Syndrome.
Maybe I ought to call it that.
Can I coin a phrase?
(20:27):
The Wesley Snipes Syndrome iscan you love two people, two
women, fellas, or ladies, twomen, and love them, but yet love
them differently?
Can you?
The answer to some may be yes.
(20:47):
The answer to some may be no.
But I think the key componentis, If you do, should you say it
out loud?
Everybody can't handle that.
Now, as I was watching Angelaread the letter, she seemed to
be feeling it and sensing it.
But everybody couldn't handlethat because there were some
women who would make Wesley dosomething.
(21:08):
What are you going to do?
Are you going to leave her?
Are you going to be with me?
Or are you going to receive itas it is?
This is beautiful.
This took a lot of courage.
This took a lot of thoughts.
Tell me more about what you meanin love.
I want to talk about this, but Iget it.
You could have took advantage ofme that night.
You didn't.
We stayed up and talked allnight.
You were there for me in thismoment.
(21:29):
And for that, I love you.
Where we go from here, I don'tknow.
But I do know that you havechanged me.
You have impacted my life.
You've impacted my life.
And maybe again, we tend to viewthe world differently.
Through our own experiences andwe tend to view the world
through what we want it to besometimes rather than the lens
(21:55):
of what we want it to be versuswhat it actually is.
So that's left for you all todebate.
You can throw that out therewith somebody else.
Ask them, you know, and I'mtelling you, the ladies were
screaming for Wesley and allwhen he said he he loved his
wife and he would never leaveher.
But then they didn't know how tofeel about the letter.
(22:16):
You know, I didn't know how tofeel about the spooning, but.
You know what?
It makes for great cinema and itmakes for even better
conversation.
So I had to interject thisspecial episode within here and
I'm going to do it often astopics come to me and things
come to my memory.
And, you know, as you go backand start certain stuff you used
(22:37):
to look at when you were 15, 16,17, 18, 19, it hits differently
when you're in your 40s orespecially in your 50s.
You may be listening to me todayand you may be finding that Your
situations aren't like youthought they would be.
They aren't as black and white.
They aren't as clear cut.
That's why I have anotherpodcast you can check out on all
(22:57):
the podcast platforms called TheGray, where I talk about gray
matters and things that are inthe gray.
Well, I want to thank y'all forstopping in on today.
Whatever day this is, whetherit's Saturday, Sunday, Monday,
Tuesday, whatever day you'relistening and keep on hanging in
there and keep on keeping theconversations open.
(23:18):
And navigating relationships isa very challenging thing, but
it's something that we all haveto do.
If you've not come out of arelationship, you're in one or
you're going into one.
It's so important that weunderstand that we are as men
and women different, but we canfind some ground in the middle
to meet.
So If you can, please subscribeto this podcast.
(23:40):
We're on Apple.
I'm on Apple Podcast.
I'm on Spotify, iHeart Music,Audible, Amazon, anywhere where
you can find podcasts, you canfind it.
Also, I'm going to post thislink on my social media and you
can check it out.
And each week we will try todrop a new episode, tell
(24:02):
somebody else about it, share itwith your friends, listen and
join in.
And I hope to at some point,create an avenue where we can
generate feedback and have somelive shows that we do.
And I really, really lookforward to doing that as well,
especially through YouTube andother avenues.
Well, it's been a pleasure.
(24:24):
It's been fun.
Love stirring up some emotion,stirring up some thought.
My objective and aim is not toget you to greet, but to get you
to think.
I appreciate you joining andwe'll see you Right here next
time on Once I Knew a Girl.
Hello, welcome back to Once I Knew a Girl, a podcast
that explores...
navigating the complexities ofrelationships.
(00:36):
Putting some insight, alsosharing some experiences, some
of it's first person, secondperson, some of it's facts, some
of it's fiction, but I intend togive a subjective point of view
on what I believe are some ofthe challenges as well as
concerns as well as And thatwill bring you up to speed on
(01:05):
where we are.
And it is my hope and myintention to Each week, drop an
episode for you to check out,for you to discuss, for you to
share.
Now, if you check out the pastfew episodes, the first one was
about just how to navigate thecomplexities of relationships.
The second one was about once Iknew a girl who was hiding
(01:26):
something.
And then the last episode abouthigh maintenance.
So somebody saying, what is thisnext one about?
Well, I'm going to take a hugedetour.
A huge detour.
And sometimes you got to go withthe flow.
You got to let it happen.
And I like discussing concepts.
And sometimes when we see thingsin Hollywood, we see things in
(01:47):
movies, we say, well, if thathappened in real life, I would
do A, B and C and D.
Like we got a lot of Mondaymorning quarterbacks out there,
right?
It's easy to say what yourquarterback would do on Monday
morning, but you're not the one.
out there who has to deal withsix foot six, 275 pounds of
(02:08):
defensive end coming at you witharms extended, seven foot
wingspan and guys in the backready to intercept you and take
it the other way to the house.
So many things going on in yourmind.
So it's easy to say what youwould and would not do if you
were in that person's position,which the fact of the matter is,
is you aren't.
(02:30):
Because sometimes we don't knowwhat we would do until we're
actually placed in thatposition.
Well, I think I can irritatepeople at times because though I
am a very principled person, Ihave my thoughts, I have my
morals, I have my values,standards, all that.
I tend to stay open inconversation.
It bothers people, especiallypeople who have fixed thoughts
(02:53):
and say, this is just the waythat it goes.
Life has taught me otherwise,that there are things that are
just rarely black and white.
And even when you think they'reblack and white, they can shift
on you.
They can alternate and adjust.
There's a movie called Waitingto Exhale came out in the 90s.
I wish I had the correct date.
It might have been 92, 94.
(03:13):
My fact checkers will figure itout and get the exact date.
But this movie was about fourAfrican-American women.
I think it was Lila Rashan,Angela Bassett.
I forgot the other two in themovie.
I got their names.
See, I got to come more preparedto this.
But in the movie, I do knowAngela Bassett and Wesley
(03:35):
Snipes.
It's a scene in the movie.
Long story short.
Angela Bassett was divorced,went through a divorce in the
movie.
Her husband cheated on her andthey pointed it out and make
sure, you know, that it was witha white woman, which was a
double whammy for her.
And there's a scene after thedivorce court where her husband
(03:57):
kind of got over on her a littlebit.
She's at a bar and WesleySnipes.
This is not the Wesley Snipesfrom Blade or the Wesley Snipes
from Demolition Man orsomething.
Wesley Snipes from Art of War orThe Expendables.
This was smooth Wesley Snipes,you know, not New Jack City
Wesley Snipes.
He kind of slid up to the table.
(04:17):
They were smoking.
They were talking.
They were drinking.
And Wesley opens up aconversation.
And if you watch it on thesurface, you would think that
Wesley was hitting on her.
He was very smooth with his toneand he commenting on her
appearance, which most peopleinterpret today as hitting on.
Now, let me stop right here andsay, you can't really comment on
another person's appearancenowadays without it being
(04:39):
interpreted as you're trying tohit on me.
You can say, hey, you look nice.
Well, what does that mean?
Everything nowadays always hasto mean something more.
What happened to the days whereyou could say, hey, you look
nice in that dress or that fitsyou or that color matches your
skin tone or whatever you wantto say, but it's hard to do that
now because just the wayeverybody I'll say love is love.
(05:01):
Love doesn't need sex to belove.
And that's what we're dealingwith now.
Everybody thinks that feelingsautomatically lead into
something physical, which is nottrue.
Just like sex doesn't need loveto be sex.
People can have sex all the timewithout having love.
(05:23):
And you can love somebodywithout having sex.
Anyway, so as this scene isgoing on, Classic scene I've
seen a lot of times before, butI was having an argument with
someone, which I love to do.
I love intelligent debate.
And you can form your ownopinion on what you think in the
scene.
You got to go back and watch iton Wait and Exhale.
And Wesley slid up to Angela andthey begin to talk and converse.
(05:46):
And he was saying all thesethings and she began to tell him
that she was going throughdivorce almost a ways if to
counter him to say like, hey,stop hitting on me.
You know, I'm going throughdivorce.
And Wesley had to check her.
He was like, no, no, it's notthat.
I understand your trauma.
And some people argue at thispoint, were they trauma bonded?
(06:08):
You know, were they being bondedover their trauma, which that's
really a fragile way to start arelationship.
But he said, no, I have a wife.
She's dying.
And he tried to relate to her.
He said, I have a wife that'sdying and my wife is sick and
it's hard for me to watch her gothrough what she's going
(06:29):
through.
It's hard for me to watch herstruggle this way.
And she has cancer and she'sdying.
And they begin to talk.
And have conversation.
I love her deeply.
I've never loved a woman the wayI love her.
And you could almost see AngelaBassett's face drop as if to
say, oh, I thought this guy wascoming on to me.
But in Angela's defense, I couldsee how she might have
(06:51):
interpreted that way because ofhow the actual conversation
began.
And so it goes on.
And I guess they.
have a scene and they talk abouta lot of different things.
And then there's a scene wherethey end up at one of them's
hotel room.
I guess they were at a hotel.
He talked to, told her about howhe was a civil rights attorney
(07:13):
and they talked and, So theywere like, what are you going to
do tonight?
I remember when I first saw thisyears ago, I didn't understand
it as a teenager.
But the natural assumption isthey're about to go in there and
get it on.
Could have been a beautifulmoment.
Maybe she needed something fromhim.
He needed something from her.
Probably people do it all thetime.
(07:33):
They go their separate ways.
We'll never see this personagain.
So we'll just proceed fromthere.
And it just happens, right?
She seems like at this point,Angela's kind of suggesting what
should they do.
(07:53):
And Wesley begins talking abouthis wife again.
And he said, whatever we do, andthis is a quote from the movie,
just make it beautiful.
And then next thing you know,they close the door.
They go to another scene.
Then they cut back into thatsame scene again.
(08:13):
a little bit later.
And what we find is that whenthey cut back into the next
scene, again, they're fullyclothed in the bed, laying down,
cuddling all night long.
They slept in, in their clothes.
Now I didn't realize this when Iwas younger, but they were
spooning the entire night.
That's a strike.
(08:34):
I give you that, you know, youknow, they were cuddling, you
know, how they've been laying adifferent way, but, but she
needed to be held.
Maybe he needed to hold.
He talked about how his wifewasn't able to do things and
that had affected him.
So the argument that I'm makingtoday is, is that possible?
(08:56):
I mean, when we saw that yearsago when we were young, all of
the ladies were cheering forWesley.
He talked about his wife, andsome of you may not even know
how to feel about that.
I think the average person istorn because you're like, wow,
Wesley– talked about his wife.
He didn't play any games.
He said he would never leave hiswife.
He's there for his wife.
(09:16):
He loves his wife.
Well, then a lot of women say,well, why would you be sharing
these thoughts with anotherwoman?
Well, I think it's all abouttiming.
Maybe in another space and time,Wesley wouldn't.
We don't know what Wesley had todeal with.
We don't know how lonely he'sbeen.
We His wife died slowly, hasaffected him.
(09:37):
He was up front.
He wasn't playing games.
He wasn't using his sickness totry to take advantage of Angela.
Maybe it was just a moment.
I think a lot of women areguilty of that.
The same thing they accuse menof doing, of believing that
there's always some illintention.
You can't put a blanketstatement over any group of all
(09:59):
men are dogs.
No, just maybe the ones you'vebeen dealing with are all women
are like this.
No, just the ones that you areassociated with.
And so for that night, they mayhave had ill intentions because
it did look like that.
Angela expected for there to besomething to pop off.
And in this instance, Turn ofevents.
We would always think, well,it's the man that wants that.
(10:21):
Right.
But it was really Angela andWesley walked away from it and
she walked away from it as well.
You can see there was nopressure there.
But I think that that womenwould say that a man is or when
a man is emotionally involved oremotionally crosses the line.
(10:43):
with Angela or with the womanthat he's cheating.
Everybody has differentdefinitions of cheating.
Some people, you can't look atanother man or woman and you're
cheating.
Some people, if you havefeelings for them, you're
cheating.
For other people, it actuallyinvolves intercourse.
I think there's different levelsfor it.
You know, look up what it means.
It means different things todifferent people.
(11:03):
Now, when this story really getsinteresting is at the end of the
movie, she receives a letterfrom him and he begins to say
Bernadette or whatever name wasin the movie.
He was like, you know, I reallyfeel embarrassed saying this,
but I believe I fell in lovewith you one night.
And one night I fell in lovewith you.
And this is where it starts toconfuse us.
(11:25):
And the love I feel for you hasnothing to do with what I feel
for my wife.
And that makes women everywheremad.
How can he love his wife andthen catch feelings for her?
Bernadette, isn't that howeverything begins, right?
That even shouldn't be.
(11:46):
You catch feelings.
It's what you do with thosefeelings.
I think what gets a lot ofpeople in trouble is they want
to be in denial that they'veeven caught feelings.
And I mean, you got to applaudWesley in that case.
He was open.
He was honest.
He wasn't playing games.
And he just told her, I fell foryou.
But it's a weird dynamic, right?
(12:07):
You know, I wish I could talkback to people right now and
have you talk to me and hearwhat you say.
It's a weird dynamic to findyourself in a place where you're
saying, I feel for anotherperson, yet I'm not supposed to
feel for another person.
Because sometimes it's just thewrong time.
I got a chapter coming up,episode coming up, called Right
(12:28):
Girl, Wrong Time.
The right girl, oh, I seeeverything that...
I would want in a woman, butit's just the wrong time.
The timings don't match up.
It's not in our cards right now.
And he never said, I'm going toleave my wife.
He never said, as soon as shedies, I'm going to come be with
you.
He just said, that's exactly howI felt.
(12:50):
Maybe he fell in love with theinnocence.
Maybe he fell in love becausefinally, you know, it wasn't
about sex.
I think sometimes sex distortsthings because you can think
that you're in love withsomebody and you're not.
Because again, love is not abandage to cover a wound.
Just because you're in love withsomebody doesn't mean you have
to be in a relationship withthem.
(13:12):
And I'm talking aboutrelationship, even friendships
are relationships.
I'm talking about romantically.
What does that mean?
We don't know how to handleemotions.
We don't know how to handlefeelings.
We don't know how to processthem.
Matter of fact, we don't evenwrite letters anymore.
As I saw her reading thatletter, I was like, wow,
everybody sends an email or textor text or chats, but we don't,
(13:35):
it's something about pinning agood old fashioned letter and
dating it.
This is what I'm feeling.
And this is where I'm at.
And it's funny how we applaud aman for expressing how he feels,
but then we speak down upon himsaying it to a woman when he is
(14:08):
married.
Somebody says, Sam, what are youthinking?
I ain't saying nothing.
I'm just talking.
So don't try to interpret whatI'm thinking or what I'm keeping
the conversation open.
It's really not a conversation,but I know you're talking back
to me.
I know you're thinking at least,what would you do if you were
Wesley fellas?
What would you do?
(14:28):
And would you You fell in lovewith a woman one night and
probably maybe you could arguemaybe it wasn't love.
Maybe you just interpreted it aslove.
I heard a quote one time thatsays being listened to and being
in love are so closely relatedthat it's hard to tell the
difference.
Sometimes if you're listening tosomeone, they may fall for you
(14:49):
because they don't have anybodyto listen to them.
And maybe that could have beenit.
Maybe not.
she was engaged in what he hadto say because he was engaged
with what she had to say.
And maybe they found acommonality in that.
Maybe they bonded over theirbrokenness.
Maybe she gave him hope.
(15:11):
And that's what he said.
If I never see you again, ifthis letter never finds you, I
want you to know that you havechanged me.
What, what a What a climax.
You changed me.
That's what I wanted you toknow.
You changed me.
Love liberates, as Maya Angelousays.
Love says I love you, whetheryou're in China or Asia or
(15:34):
Europe.
Love doesn't know how to fail.
Love brings hope and optimismand encouragement.
Maybe it's the wording.
There's a difference betweensaying I love you, Bernadette,
and I am in love with you.
He said, I fell in love withyou.
And that made all the ladies gocrazy.
And he was smooth and he wastalking good, but don't express
(15:56):
his feelings, especially being amarried man.
Don't express your feelings.
And I guess, I don't know.
I guess that That's one of thosethings easier said than done.
Somebody said, well, Sam, whatwould you say?
What's your experience?
I'm not telling you.
No, I think things arecomplicated.
(16:18):
I think we in maturity at timeshave had to walk away from
situations and things that weredifficult.
There's head knowledge and thenthere's heart knowledge.
There's some things that youknow in your head and your heart
will tell you different.
But ignoring your head andlistening to your heart can get
(16:40):
you in trouble as well.
Some people don't.
Some people say, forget what Iknow.
Forget what the consequenceswill be.
I'll go on and follow my heart.
Sometimes it's successful.
Sometimes it's not.
But he says, you changed me.
And that's the bottom of theline.
And I like how The movie left ithanging, right?
(17:01):
I like movies that the guydoesn't always get the girl.
There's not a happy ending.
We don't know how it worked outbecause the cliffhanger leaves
us with suspense, leaves us tohave conversations like these.
What do you think is going tohappen?
Well, my assumption is just sayhis wife passes and at some
(17:21):
point in time, he reaches backout to the familiar, back to
somebody who in one nightimpacted his life in such a way.
that he said he fell in love.
And that's another conversation.
What is the difference betweenbeing in love and falling in
love?
Because again, semantics is bigwith most of us.
(17:42):
It's how we define things.
What's your definition?
What's your definition ofemotionally involved?
What's your definition ofinappropriate line being
crossed?
What's your definition ofcelebrating a man who praises
you His love for his wife yettells another lady that he loves
(18:02):
her while saying that the lovehe feels for her is nothing like
the love he feels for his wife.
Now, some of you would have beenmad because you would have said,
forget that.
You can't love me and your wife.
He didn't say he loves the same.
It's like, I don't love my wifethe same way I love my mom.
(18:22):
Those are different ways.
I don't love my daughters thesame way I love my mom.
take shapes in different formsand different levels and
different types, right?
So we know that there aredifferent types of love and it's
not a one size fits all.
So we would also have to knowwhat he meant by love.
(18:42):
Maybe he meant somethingdifferent.
We're always so quick to jump todefinitions and we're always so
quick to try to box in thingsthat That can't be boxed in.
You can't box in love.
I'm sorry.
I know we tried.
And then, too, we got to becareful not to project our
experiences on everybody else.
(19:03):
There are some people who havebeen hurt by relationships, by
situations.
And so they can't and won't saylove.
Won't say love because sayinglove is...
is to say hurt.
But let me tell you something.
If you've ever been in love, youcannot ever have really truly
been in love withoutexperiencing hurt.
(19:24):
Love, it hurt.
kind of join together because Ihave to love you so much that
you can hurt me at times.
But I'm okay with that.
It may not be intentional, but Iknow if you were to die or if
you were to walk out of my lifeor leave me or abandon me, it
would hurt.
That's how you know.
That's the difference betweencaring and being indifferent.
(19:46):
I tell my couples all the time,if you see your spouse being
indifferent, then you need to beBecause the fact that I'm still
emoting is the fact that I'mstill getting emotional about
what you're saying and what youare doing.
That lets or should let you knowthat I care a little bit.
But when I get to the pointwhere I don't say nothing, I
(20:06):
don't respond.
I can look at you, go the otherway, not act any act any
different than than any otherperson.
Then I know there is a problem.
The Wesley Snipes story.
Syndrome.
Maybe I ought to call it that.
Can I coin a phrase?
(20:27):
The Wesley Snipes Syndrome iscan you love two people, two
women, fellas, or ladies, twomen, and love them, but yet love
them differently?
Can you?
The answer to some may be yes.
(20:47):
The answer to some may be no.
But I think the key componentis, If you do, should you say it
out loud?
Everybody can't handle that.
Now, as I was watching Angelaread the letter, she seemed to
be feeling it and sensing it.
But everybody couldn't handlethat because there were some
women who would make Wesley dosomething.
(21:08):
What are you going to do?
Are you going to leave her?
Are you going to be with me?
Or are you going to receive itas it is?
This is beautiful.
This took a lot of courage.
This took a lot of thoughts.
Tell me more about what you meanin love.
I want to talk about this, but Iget it.
You could have took advantage ofme that night.
You didn't.
We stayed up and talked allnight.
You were there for me in thismoment.
(21:29):
And for that, I love you.
Where we go from here, I don'tknow.
But I do know that you havechanged me.
You have impacted my life.
You've impacted my life.
And maybe again, we tend to viewthe world differently.
Through our own experiences andwe tend to view the world
through what we want it to besometimes rather than the lens
(21:55):
of what we want it to be versuswhat it actually is.
So that's left for you all todebate.
You can throw that out therewith somebody else.
Ask them, you know, and I'mtelling you, the ladies were
screaming for Wesley and allwhen he said he he loved his
wife and he would never leaveher.
But then they didn't know how tofeel about the letter.
(22:16):
You know, I didn't know how tofeel about the spooning, but.
You know what?
It makes for great cinema and itmakes for even better
conversation.
So I had to interject thisspecial episode within here and
I'm going to do it often astopics come to me and things
come to my memory.
And, you know, as you go backand start certain stuff you used
(22:37):
to look at when you were 15, 16,17, 18, 19, it hits differently
when you're in your 40s orespecially in your 50s.
You may be listening to me todayand you may be finding that Your
situations aren't like youthought they would be.
They aren't as black and white.
They aren't as clear cut.
That's why I have anotherpodcast you can check out on all
(22:57):
the podcast platforms called TheGray, where I talk about gray
matters and things that are inthe gray.
Well, I want to thank y'all forstopping in on today.
Whatever day this is, whetherit's Saturday, Sunday, Monday,
Tuesday, whatever day you'relistening and keep on hanging in
there and keep on keeping theconversations open.
(23:18):
And navigating relationships isa very challenging thing, but
it's something that we all haveto do.
If you've not come out of arelationship, you're in one or
you're going into one.
It's so important that weunderstand that we are as men
and women different, but we canfind some ground in the middle
to meet.
So If you can, please subscribeto this podcast.
(23:40):
We're on Apple.
I'm on Apple Podcast.
I'm on Spotify, iHeart Music,Audible, Amazon, anywhere where
you can find podcasts, you canfind it.
Also, I'm going to post thislink on my social media and you
can check it out.
And each week we will try todrop a new episode, tell
(24:02):
somebody else about it, share itwith your friends, listen and
join in.
And I hope to at some point,create an avenue where we can
generate feedback and have somelive shows that we do.
And I really, really lookforward to doing that as well,
especially through YouTube andother avenues.
Well, it's been a pleasure.
(24:24):
It's been fun.
Love stirring up some emotion,stirring up some thought.
My objective and aim is not toget you to greet, but to get you
to think.
I appreciate you joining andwe'll see you Right here next
time on Once I Knew a Girl.
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