January 20, 2025 • 29 mins
Which would you rather live in: America or Europe?
In this episode, Mary Grace and Marco take a deeper dive into this question and share their own takeaways and experiences of living both in America and Europe - at different times of their lives - and how their current home, lifestyle and culture in America have all shaped and gradually changed the way they view the norms of Europe and Europeans.
(00:00) Intro & Episode Overview
(01:53) Question of the Hour
(02:49) Germany is Stuck in Its History
(06:47) Workplace Appreciation, Entrepreneurship
(08:20) Attitude Towards Debt, Jealousy Over Successful People
(10:23) Judgment and Superficiality
(13:00) Ease of Travel in Europe vs. America
(14:52) Home Ownership in America
(17:36) Charity and Giving Back
(20:25) What Europe Does Better
(22:13) Advice to Those Wanting to Live in Europe
(26:52) Verdict: Is it Better Living in Europe or America?
(28:02) Last Remarks
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, good morning, good afternoon, good evening.
(00:04):
Whenever you are listening or watching this, we are back with Marco once again.
Marco, would you like to say your welcome slash hello slash yay, I'm back?
Well, you just did it on behalf of me.
So hello.
Yes, we are very happy to have Marco back with us very soon.
I thought that this week would be interesting if we really dove deeper into girl.
(00:30):
Oh, we're doing it again.
It's happening again.
I thought it would be really interesting to dive deeper into what life in Germany slash
life in America is like for a European who has moved here to America, as well as in comparison,
my personal short lived experience living in Europe as an American and what it feels
(00:55):
like to live in America now that I'm back.
I just thought that this comparison dynamic would be quite fascinating.
So if you are European and you are thinking of moving to the US or if you are American
and you're considering moving to Europe because Europe seems so dreamy and idealistic and
(01:15):
blah, blah, blah, like I thought when I was traveling in the past, then I think this episode
is for you and we both believe that you will enjoy.
Let's go ahead and kick off this episode with some juicy questions.
Yeah, the juiciest, most fun questions imaginable.
(01:39):
Actually no, not really.
You're selling it way too, way too much.
That's what you would say.
I do hope you enjoy this episode and you take some new information or entertainment or both
away.
So here we go.
How has living in America changed your view of Germany and Europe?
And this is the burning million dollar question that I really, really, really think would
(02:05):
interest not only me, but anybody listening to us right now.
That's a very good question.
Everything here has changed, has definitely changed my view on Germany on a number of
subjects.
For one thing, this kind of unconditional social welfare is maybe not unique to Germany,
but there are very few places that have such an unconditional system and it's just very
(02:28):
inefficient and it doesn't incentivize hard work.
The really good people that are hardworking and that have ideas that maybe want to be
an entrepreneur or whatever, they will find themselves compared to America in a worse
environment.
Here in America, hard work pays off more than it does in Germany.
(02:48):
That's just a sad truth.
Also on a political spectrum, Germany is much more cognizant and afraid of its past than
other countries are.
Is that good or bad?
Well, kind of in between.
I think it's over the top in Germany where everything, and it goes in both political
(03:09):
directions, both right wing and left wing in Germany.
If anybody voices an idea or an opinion on something, then either people say, oh, this
is kind of like back in the thirties, we're steering towards a nationalist dictatorship
or in the other direction, oh, we're on the way to communism again or socialism in that
(03:32):
sense.
I don't see that here in the States.
America also has a very interesting history, but if somebody has an opinion on something,
nobody's going to go, oh my God, we're going to have another Confederacy.
We're going to reinstate slavery or something like that.
That's, I don't know, maybe it's a personal perception.
I'm not disregarding slavery in any way, shape or form, but the whole Nazi regime was definitely
(03:58):
much more recent in comparison to slavery.
I will say this despite Germany's past.
Outside Germany, people look much more positive at Germany than Germany looks at itself in
the sense that Germany is very well respected for its economy and for its products and its
(04:22):
innovations.
In Germany, national pride is not a thing in Germany and it's kind of sad.
Here, America, where not everything that America has done in the past was golden, there have
been questionable political decisions and questionable involvements in certain wars
(04:44):
and Americans don't care.
They still love America and they feel like, yes, we're the greatest nation on earth.
Germany with some things could do the same, could say, yeah, okay, yeah, we have a hard
past and things were horrible, but what we have done, especially post-war, what we have
accomplished is something to be proud of, also to show some national pride in.
(05:09):
And that's just not the case.
And I don't know why, because if I talk to other non-Germans, they don't understand why
that is.
They do understand, yes, there has been this dictatorship past, but that's no reason to
not be a little bit more positive, a little bit more proud to the Germany that exists
today.
(05:29):
Of the Germany that exists today.
Of the Germany that exists today.
So since you've lived here in the US, you basically have developed this view of Germany
as, oh, we are not patriotic enough because the US is...
Not patriotic at all.
Not enough, not at all.
At all.
Not at all.
Unless there's like a Euro cup or soccer world cup going on, then it's okay to show like
(05:51):
a national flag.
If you do that outside of an event like that, people are going to think like, oh, he's an
extremist, he's right wing and whatever.
Here on every block, there's at least one American flag.
Yeah, that is true.
And you sing the national anthem at any kind of event, even national event without some
(06:13):
international exposure.
I would get it if it were an international competition of some sort, but even within
the US, there is... every chance is just used to show American pride, to sing the national
anthem, to honor the military.
That's another point, by the way, the military in Germany is not honored in any way.
Again, not saying America is extremely good about it.
(06:35):
I think it's also a little bit too much, but in Germany, it's way too little.
So yeah, so my view on Germany has changed from an outside perspective.
Germany should be more confident about itself, much more than it is.
What about other things that have changed your view of Germany?
In the workplace, I feel that in America, if you're good at something, you're going
(06:58):
to get promoted faster than you would in Germany.
And why is that?
I don't know.
It's... there is this positivity and also, you know, this opportunity thing where people
feel like, oh yeah, that guy or girl has something special and really has some talent.
And yeah, it's just being promoted much faster and more generously.
(07:21):
Here you can also like the way people switch jobs here.
People are much more free when it comes to trying to get more fulfillment in their lives.
They can just try, you know, it's just trial and error.
People just do this today and then something else tomorrow.
Also entrepreneurship.
America is a country of entrepreneurship.
In America, if you have an idea, whatever it is, some business idea, and you go and
(07:45):
try and you fail, let's say you have a small company and you go bust.
That is okay here.
I mean, yes, it sucks and it's kind of sad, you know, but you just pick yourself up, dust
yourself off and try again.
And most people that have made it here or many of the big CEOs and whatever, they needed
three, four, five, six attempts to become successful.
(08:06):
In Germany, if you start a company and you fail, that is, you know, people will look
at you like you're a failure.
So yeah, a company, you know, being the head of a company that failed or also being in
debt like the whole relationship with money.
If you're in debt in Germany, that is, I mean, people basically can't sleep unless, I mean,
(08:31):
of course, unless you buy a house and most people will be in debt.
And I'm not saying again, I have to put this in perspective.
I'm not saying I fully endorse what's happening here because that's the other extreme.
That's also there's a lot of credit card debt here, ludicrous, ludicrous in its own respect.
But in Germany, it's people are so, so conservative about money that being, you know, being in
(08:52):
debt is the absolute worst thing.
Failing a company is the absolute worst thing.
Whereas here, people live their lives and people live in the moment and they spend.
It's also easier and totally normal to show off some, you know, wealth, even if it doesn't
matter if that wealth is real or if it's based on credit card debt.
But you know, you can, here in America, you can go out and buy a fancy house or buy a
(09:17):
fancy car or buy fan, whatever fancy stuff.
And on average, other people will look at you with admiration and will be like, oh,
you know, good for, you know, good for her, good for him.
Whereas in Germany, it's a bit of a culture of envy where it's like, oh, how did, how
could he afford that?
He must have robbed a bank.
So there is much more jealousy, much more envy in Germany, I must say.
(09:41):
Whereas here it's like anybody who has made it and who has become successful because of
the whole American dream thing is looked at with admiration.
And in Germany, that's not the case.
People, there are many wealthy people in Germany that basically try to try to keep a low profile
and be under the radar and not show off things because they don't want to be looked at as
(10:02):
showoffs and or maybe people think, oh, they, you know, they must, they must have some illegal
business going on.
Otherwise they couldn't afford this.
That's a very negative thing about Germany, I will say.
In America, America, it doesn't matter.
Hey, he bought a hundred thousand dollar car.
He can't afford it, but hey, good for him.
Yeah.
You know, Germany doesn't do that.
(10:23):
So and I like that here that people are more positive.
People mind their own business and I don't know about minding their own business.
People are pretty nosy here.
Yeah, they're nosy, but me, but yes and no, it's a, it's a different kind of nosy.
Maybe it's less judgmental.
I mean, people are judgmental here too, but I think it's different.
It's interesting that you mentioned this perspective of Americans being less judgmental because
(10:45):
when I was in Europe, I felt the opposite, but maybe it's just my personal experience.
For me, when I met Europeans, they appeared to be more open-minded.
They appeared to be more interested in the world.
They appear to be more interested in other things aside from just the one country they
(11:05):
live in, aside from America.
America is more, America is definitely more career centered and more revolving around
money and material stuff.
That is why when I was traveling and I was living in Europe, that was actually why I
really liked and admired Europe.
I liked that it was not all about money.
I liked that you could have a life and recognition outside of a career.
(11:28):
That was not what you were only made of.
So it does go both ways.
It does go both ways.
And that's true.
I mean, in certain areas, there's more cultural depths in Europe.
There's a whole lot more cultural depth in the United States.
I mean, I guess what we're kind of touching on is too, we're the same age.
I grew up in Germany and you grew up here.
(11:48):
And I think it's a very natural thing to cherry pick the positives and negatives.
And you always see the better on the other side.
And that goes both ways because you're always looking at something that you didn't have
or don't have.
Both places come with pros and cons.
Also Europe, you know, saying Europe is a little bit tricky too, because Europe is incredibly
(12:11):
diverse.
There's so many countries.
That's true.
Kind of what you mentioned earlier too, about people being more superficial here, but being
friendlier on a surface level or at least having a pleasant conversation.
That is something that I honestly do like too.
I mean, yes, I wish sometimes people were less superficial, but at the same time, your
(12:33):
interaction with people is still very pleasant and your day can just feel a little bit brighter
if you have a pleasant conversation.
Whereas in Europe, because of language barriers for me, especially, and going to different
countries, people are not really happy behind a counter or they do not want to see you.
They maybe say hello and that's it.
(12:54):
There's like no interest whatsoever.
It is very dry.
It's business.
It has to be fast, you know, get out basically.
What about with traveling though?
So one thing I really loved about living in Europe was I could travel so easily from country
to country through buses, trains, Ryanair flights, really cheap flights.
(13:15):
And here you can't really do that.
That was something in the past that I really, really appreciated and really liked.
And that was part of the reason why I wanted to live in Europe in the past was because
it was so easy or considerably so easy to travel and to go to different places for the
weekend.
Whereas here you need to fly across the country to go anywhere and we don't really have an
(13:38):
extensive train system.
We don't have buses.
I mean, we have buses, but not an extensive bus network.
So I think, yeah, like you said, I mean, we do cherry pick what we like the most, but
that is a huge thing actually in lifestyle.
Yes, it has a historic reason why that is the case in America.
For one thing, America or the U.S. we could extend this even to Canada.
(14:02):
Let's say North America.
North America is just this big continent and Europe is very, I mean, it's, it's, it's
it's many different countries.
There are more people.
There's less space here.
You have Europe.
Yeah.
In Europe, there's less space compared to how many people live there.
It's crowded for like a better term.
(14:23):
And in America, individual mobility, i.e. the car, people just get in their car and
drive.
That was brought forward by Henry Ford, who made the car accessible to the masses because
that became such a success.
Railroad was neglected.
And that's why America is set up the way it's set up.
(14:44):
Now there is a lot of catching up to do and they try to get more trains and more public
transit in place.
But yeah, it's, it's, it's hard.
Another thing that I will harp on in terms of America and something that I do appreciate
more that I live back here.
And of course, since you've been here, I really like the idea of being able to own a standalone
(15:08):
house.
Because I feel like...
In the United States.
I say, yes, in the United States.
Because in Europe, that is, that is one thing now that I look back on from my earlier twenties.
And that's something that I really didn't take into account.
Yes, you can have a standalone house in many parts of Europe.
And especially if you go further into the countryside, I guess, but it's much less commonplace.
(15:34):
You just don't see it as much.
That is just not part of the culture.
It's much more communal.
People live in apartment buildings.
Marco grew up in an apartment building.
Yeah.
Home ownership is a much bigger thing in the U.S. hands down.
And that is very exciting.
Just to be able to have a standalone house with a garden and a yard and space of your
(15:56):
own.
You can be as loud as you want in your house and nobody's really going to hear you.
That's I mean, that is just advantageous.
So I do love that about living here in the U.S. again, because when I was in Europe and
I was living out of Airbnbs, I was often too loud when I would teach English and my voice
carries very far.
(16:17):
Yes, you can say that again.
It carries very far.
And I would always have to worry about disturbing neighbors.
Whereas here in a standalone house, you could probably scream.
No one would hear you.
Like in Germany in apartment buildings, you know, you can't during like lunchtime between
like 12 and I don't know, one or whatever.
(16:37):
So you can't make any noise.
You can't.
This is Germany?
Germany.
Yeah, you can't.
What?
Yeah, yeah.
You can't.
You can't vacuum.
Or even also on Sundays, you're not supposed to make a lot of noise because that's like
the quiet day.
I was not aware of that.
Let's say, you know, you want to hang a picture and you have to drill a hole in the wall or
something like that.
You can't do that during certain times because you're upsetting the neighbors and it's not
(17:01):
very considerate.
It's not considerate.
And here you can't just do whatever it is you want.
It's your property.
If you want to paint your house pink, you can paint your house pink.
Depends if you live in like, what is it, like a HOA?
Homeowners Association, which has community guidelines you need to follow.
There are certain like uniformities and stuff.
But if you want to, let's say there's a little tree in your yard and you want to cut it down
(17:24):
with a chainsaw, then you do that.
Yeah.
You know, no permission needed.
And that I like too, that you can just, that you're in that regard more free than in other
parts of the world.
Another thing I want to touch on is, you know, with all the things that we mentioned about
how America is more, you know, where people are more responsible for themselves and more
(17:46):
where you could think, oh, okay, America, Americans are more self-centered.
I don't think that's the case because I tell you why, because in, you know, in Germany,
you would say, oh, you know, everything is kind of publicly funded.
People pay money into a big bucket for the greater good and everyone benefits, which
is true where here people are just looking at themselves.
(18:06):
They don't care about other people.
That is not true.
So what I have noticed here is, especially people that become successful financially,
there is an expectation here for those people who have made it to give back to the community.
Yes.
Charity.
That's such a big thing.
And people are, and even people that are not millionaires, even people that are doing okay,
(18:30):
still are much more willing and ready to make generous donations to whatever.
People here are still, are still very philanthropic.
Yeah.
Very generous, very generous and really care about people and try to support people and
say, Hey, you know, someone has talent.
Somebody wants to start a company, needs some support.
(18:51):
Hey, why don't I, why don't I get involved in his business and put some money down?
I get some shareholdership of the company.
So that is where people look after each other and, and, you know, trying to work on kind
of win-win situations.
And so, yeah, Americans are very caring, very caring, very generous.
(19:11):
And did you think that before you lived here?
No, before I came here and in the last couple of years, maybe 10 years through the internet,
I, you know, I learned about this crowdfunding thing when somebody on the internet said,
Hey, you know, I have this, go fund me, go fund, whatever it is.
Yeah.
The crowdfunding where people are just random, random people on the internet donate money
(19:32):
through like PayPal and whatever.
Yeah.
For something.
And from a German perspective, I could not, I could not fathom how tens of thousands of
dollars could be collected in a pretty short period of time.
Like are people insane?
Are people like some random guy on the internet, you know, put something out there?
(19:53):
Yeah, you know, I'm doing this and that I need some support and people just open their
wallet and give money.
Wow.
And now that is true.
I understand why that is and where that comes from.
That perspective has changed.
Yes.
I mean, even in school, we are taught from a young age to volunteer, to give back to
(20:13):
the community.
That is something that is instilled.
Part of the culture and that is something that I do really like about being here.
Are there things about Germany or about Europe that you think are better or that you really
miss?
Are these big enough things to where you would want to live in Germany again?
(20:34):
Not big enough things.
There are things that I do appreciate in Germany or Europe in general.
I do think the food or the quality of food is better and more healthy.
I agree.
I think in Germany and Europe and other parts of Europe.
Yeah, I do.
I do like driving in Germany.
Those are the things I think because people are better trained there.
I would say it's maybe a little bit safer to drive.
(20:57):
That is a complaint that Marco makes on a regular basis.
I'm very adamant about it.
Twenty dollar driver's license.
Yes, I know.
I get carried away.
I get carried away.
But it's true.
Now people are not good drivers here.
People are on average are not good drivers.
They don't signal.
But anyway.
But that's, you know, those are small things.
I do like, OK, I do like the PTO kind of policy in Germany that you that you have more work
(21:20):
life balance is a bigger priority in Germany.
I do like that.
The question is, OK, how much longer can Germany afford to keep that up with the global competition,
you know, with the Chinas of the world and the Indians of the world?
Well, let's let's see how that will evolve over the next 20, 30 years.
So yeah, there are small things that I like.
And of course, you know, you go back and especially having grown up there, I still have a very
(21:44):
good network of people, friends and family that that are still there.
So you have a very solid group of people.
So with that, with that, if I had if I chose to go back to Germany or in that case, we
would choose to go to Germany.
You know, we would be OK.
It's not like it's not like it would be the end of the world and it would be no, not.
(22:06):
I don't want to paint that picture.
It's still a very livable country that's worthwhile to to live in and to be in.
If there is any American listening to this and you have thought of moving to Europe and
or you are going to move to Europe, Marco, do you have any specific words of wisdom or
(22:28):
advice that you would give to any American or any person outside of Europe who is moving
to Europe and some pointers of what they should be aware of when it comes to living in Europe?
Well, I guess I guess for one thing, getting there and kind of building your environment
(22:48):
and building your setup, it's very bureaucratic.
So to get permits and to apply for certain things, it's a very bureaucratic system,
specifically Germany.
But I think the whole European Union has become very bureaucratic for an American, especially
when you going to continental Europe.
So excluding the UK and Ireland, depending on where you go, people might not or might
(23:11):
speak very little English.
So to really delving into the culture, you really have to make an effort to learn a foreign
language.
You cannot go, especially when you want to live there.
I mean, on vacation, that's all fine.
But if you want to if you want to live there, doesn't matter if you're going to to Spain
or to Germany or to, I don't know, Greece or something, make an effort to assimilate
(23:37):
and try to learn the language.
Maybe another thing you will run into differences just like I have when I came here, little
things that don't have to be good or bad, but just differences where you shouldn't harp
on where you just where you just should accept that they are different.
Because here I also like the first couple of months I was like, you know, that's so
weird.
Why do they do this?
(23:57):
Why do they do that?
Can you think of examples?
I mean, I think the banking system here with the checks and stuff that is that we still
have paper checks.
Yeah, the way Germany does it.
Banking system here is kind of odd.
But then in Germany, you know, you would come you would you would go over there and you
would find out that on a Sunday you cannot go shopping and you would think why?
(24:19):
Why is that?
So you have why?
So when you when you leave the US and come to Europe or probably any other country for
that matter, even I think I guess if you went to Asia or Africa or whatever, you would also
want to make differences, accept and embrace it and not question it and not challenge it
and not like, oh, you know, back in America, we do this.
Yeah, that's back in America.
(24:40):
That is not where you are.
That's not gonna, you know, make your life any better.
Because just because you say, you know, back home, we do this differently.
Nobody is going to care.
That's true.
Yeah.
Now I will say sometimes I am guilty of that too.
Sometimes I can't help it.
Sometimes I'm also like, you know, back in Germany, we're all guilty of that.
But you cannot have that get the best of you.
(25:02):
So you have to be open minded and accept and respect certain cultural traits and oddities.
But try it.
Yeah, that's that's very good advice.
It's very enriching for one's personality to see, you know, on a for a longer period
of time, a different environment, a different culture.
And it makes you learn also question things that are going on back home or also appreciate
(25:27):
things going on.
Things that you never thought about, things that you took for granted.
So I do think for anybody, honestly, I would encourage anybody.
And I think in the US for Americans, I think it's that the easiest way to accomplish that
is maybe to move to Europe for a semester during college, for example.
If you can pull it off financially and whatever, whatever requirements there are, absolutely
(25:51):
do it.
I really think that that's very insightful and very applicable advice.
Like Marco was just saying with the oddities that are different from your home country.
So for me, being American, one time I was in Serbia and Eastern Europe, for example,
and everything in my Airbnb broke.
I have a reel on this if you have seen it.
(26:15):
Everything broke.
The electricity was out for nearly two days.
I didn't have running water.
I couldn't communicate with anybody.
The neighbors didn't like me.
I was too loud because the walls were too thin.
I mean, so many things went wrong.
And that was one of those times when I was really appreciative of America.
So if things break, just be ready to deal with dilemmas and challenges because you will
(26:40):
have them.
You're not you're not hating Serbia.
Just to get that clear.
So I'm just saying specifically, I have not been.
I have not been to Serbia, but I'm pretty sure it's better than its reputation.
It really is.
So with all of that being said, you still would choose living here over Germany.
It's not America is not perfect, but you know, there are still are many reasons to come here.
(27:03):
I think for me, I believe that I would be happy in either place.
I would definitely not say no to living in Europe.
Yes, I'm more aware of what the ramifications are to live in Europe.
But I feel overall, I'm still torn.
I think overall for quality of life, the US does win.
(27:24):
I do think that and that's a hard thing for me to say.
I think that you it really depends on your environment.
Like happiness always comes down to the environment, the people that you have around you, just
the financial or the economic situation that you're in.
It can go both ways.
You can you can be poor, you can be rich, you can be lonely, you can be miserable, you
(27:49):
can be that in any place.
I would also think like I think we could be perfectly happy living in Europe, too.
There are just differences.
It's always a trade off.
If you look at things, you know, item per item kind of, it's always a trade off.
So that is the episode.
Do you have anything you'd like to say to close off?
(28:09):
Well, I've said enough already.
I have a knife you have.
Yeah, just everyone, you know, pursue your happiness no matter what place.
Just live your life as best you can.
We really thank you so much for sticking with us.
If you're still listening or watching at this point in time, if you have fallen asleep,
good night.
Oh, I hope you have not fallen asleep.
(28:32):
If you have any specific requests or if you'd like to mention any specific feedback, you
know how to reach me at this point.
If you've been listening for a while, send me a message on Instagram at Once Upon a Trip
dot PC or on my main account at Mary Grace Crawford.
We will both be back with you very soon.
Marco is going to Germany for two weeks, so it'll be at least two weeks without Marco.
(28:56):
But that's OK.
When he gets back, we will get right back on it.
He's dispensable.
You're not dispensable.
No, no, you're really not.
You're not either.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
I will see you next Tuesday.
We hope that you have a wonderful week ahead and see you soon.
Bye bye.
See you.
(29:16):
Está dessa nueva göster
Hello, good morning, good afternoon, good evening.
(00:04):
Whenever you are listening or watching this, we are back with Marco once again.
Marco, would you like to say your welcome slash hello slash yay, I'm back?
Well, you just did it on behalf of me.
So hello.
Yes, we are very happy to have Marco back with us very soon.
I thought that this week would be interesting if we really dove deeper into girl.
(00:30):
Oh, we're doing it again.
It's happening again.
I thought it would be really interesting to dive deeper into what life in Germany slash
life in America is like for a European who has moved here to America, as well as in comparison,
my personal short lived experience living in Europe as an American and what it feels
(00:55):
like to live in America now that I'm back.
I just thought that this comparison dynamic would be quite fascinating.
So if you are European and you are thinking of moving to the US or if you are American
and you're considering moving to Europe because Europe seems so dreamy and idealistic and
(01:15):
blah, blah, blah, like I thought when I was traveling in the past, then I think this episode
is for you and we both believe that you will enjoy.
Let's go ahead and kick off this episode with some juicy questions.
Yeah, the juiciest, most fun questions imaginable.
(01:39):
Actually no, not really.
You're selling it way too, way too much.
That's what you would say.
I do hope you enjoy this episode and you take some new information or entertainment or both
away.
So here we go.
How has living in America changed your view of Germany and Europe?
And this is the burning million dollar question that I really, really, really think would
(02:05):
interest not only me, but anybody listening to us right now.
That's a very good question.
Everything here has changed, has definitely changed my view on Germany on a number of
subjects.
For one thing, this kind of unconditional social welfare is maybe not unique to Germany,
but there are very few places that have such an unconditional system and it's just very
(02:28):
inefficient and it doesn't incentivize hard work.
The really good people that are hardworking and that have ideas that maybe want to be
an entrepreneur or whatever, they will find themselves compared to America in a worse
environment.
Here in America, hard work pays off more than it does in Germany.
(02:48):
That's just a sad truth.
Also on a political spectrum, Germany is much more cognizant and afraid of its past than
other countries are.
Is that good or bad?
Well, kind of in between.
I think it's over the top in Germany where everything, and it goes in both political
(03:09):
directions, both right wing and left wing in Germany.
If anybody voices an idea or an opinion on something, then either people say, oh, this
is kind of like back in the thirties, we're steering towards a nationalist dictatorship
or in the other direction, oh, we're on the way to communism again or socialism in that
(03:32):
sense.
I don't see that here in the States.
America also has a very interesting history, but if somebody has an opinion on something,
nobody's going to go, oh my God, we're going to have another Confederacy.
We're going to reinstate slavery or something like that.
That's, I don't know, maybe it's a personal perception.
I'm not disregarding slavery in any way, shape or form, but the whole Nazi regime was definitely
(03:58):
much more recent in comparison to slavery.
I will say this despite Germany's past.
Outside Germany, people look much more positive at Germany than Germany looks at itself in
the sense that Germany is very well respected for its economy and for its products and its
(04:22):
innovations.
In Germany, national pride is not a thing in Germany and it's kind of sad.
Here, America, where not everything that America has done in the past was golden, there have
been questionable political decisions and questionable involvements in certain wars
(04:44):
and Americans don't care.
They still love America and they feel like, yes, we're the greatest nation on earth.
Germany with some things could do the same, could say, yeah, okay, yeah, we have a hard
past and things were horrible, but what we have done, especially post-war, what we have
accomplished is something to be proud of, also to show some national pride in.
(05:09):
And that's just not the case.
And I don't know why, because if I talk to other non-Germans, they don't understand why
that is.
They do understand, yes, there has been this dictatorship past, but that's no reason to
not be a little bit more positive, a little bit more proud to the Germany that exists
today.
(05:29):
Of the Germany that exists today.
Of the Germany that exists today.
So since you've lived here in the US, you basically have developed this view of Germany
as, oh, we are not patriotic enough because the US is...
Not patriotic at all.
Not enough, not at all.
At all.
Not at all.
Unless there's like a Euro cup or soccer world cup going on, then it's okay to show like
(05:51):
a national flag.
If you do that outside of an event like that, people are going to think like, oh, he's an
extremist, he's right wing and whatever.
Here on every block, there's at least one American flag.
Yeah, that is true.
And you sing the national anthem at any kind of event, even national event without some
(06:13):
international exposure.
I would get it if it were an international competition of some sort, but even within
the US, there is... every chance is just used to show American pride, to sing the national
anthem, to honor the military.
That's another point, by the way, the military in Germany is not honored in any way.
Again, not saying America is extremely good about it.
(06:35):
I think it's also a little bit too much, but in Germany, it's way too little.
So yeah, so my view on Germany has changed from an outside perspective.
Germany should be more confident about itself, much more than it is.
What about other things that have changed your view of Germany?
In the workplace, I feel that in America, if you're good at something, you're going
(06:58):
to get promoted faster than you would in Germany.
And why is that?
I don't know.
It's... there is this positivity and also, you know, this opportunity thing where people
feel like, oh yeah, that guy or girl has something special and really has some talent.
And yeah, it's just being promoted much faster and more generously.
(07:21):
Here you can also like the way people switch jobs here.
People are much more free when it comes to trying to get more fulfillment in their lives.
They can just try, you know, it's just trial and error.
People just do this today and then something else tomorrow.
Also entrepreneurship.
America is a country of entrepreneurship.
In America, if you have an idea, whatever it is, some business idea, and you go and
(07:45):
try and you fail, let's say you have a small company and you go bust.
That is okay here.
I mean, yes, it sucks and it's kind of sad, you know, but you just pick yourself up, dust
yourself off and try again.
And most people that have made it here or many of the big CEOs and whatever, they needed
three, four, five, six attempts to become successful.
(08:06):
In Germany, if you start a company and you fail, that is, you know, people will look
at you like you're a failure.
So yeah, a company, you know, being the head of a company that failed or also being in
debt like the whole relationship with money.
If you're in debt in Germany, that is, I mean, people basically can't sleep unless, I mean,
(08:31):
of course, unless you buy a house and most people will be in debt.
And I'm not saying again, I have to put this in perspective.
I'm not saying I fully endorse what's happening here because that's the other extreme.
That's also there's a lot of credit card debt here, ludicrous, ludicrous in its own respect.
But in Germany, it's people are so, so conservative about money that being, you know, being in
(08:52):
debt is the absolute worst thing.
Failing a company is the absolute worst thing.
Whereas here, people live their lives and people live in the moment and they spend.
It's also easier and totally normal to show off some, you know, wealth, even if it doesn't
matter if that wealth is real or if it's based on credit card debt.
But you know, you can, here in America, you can go out and buy a fancy house or buy a
(09:17):
fancy car or buy fan, whatever fancy stuff.
And on average, other people will look at you with admiration and will be like, oh,
you know, good for, you know, good for her, good for him.
Whereas in Germany, it's a bit of a culture of envy where it's like, oh, how did, how
could he afford that?
He must have robbed a bank.
So there is much more jealousy, much more envy in Germany, I must say.
(09:41):
Whereas here it's like anybody who has made it and who has become successful because of
the whole American dream thing is looked at with admiration.
And in Germany, that's not the case.
People, there are many wealthy people in Germany that basically try to try to keep a low profile
and be under the radar and not show off things because they don't want to be looked at as
(10:02):
showoffs and or maybe people think, oh, they, you know, they must, they must have some illegal
business going on.
Otherwise they couldn't afford this.
That's a very negative thing about Germany, I will say.
In America, America, it doesn't matter.
Hey, he bought a hundred thousand dollar car.
He can't afford it, but hey, good for him.
Yeah.
You know, Germany doesn't do that.
(10:23):
So and I like that here that people are more positive.
People mind their own business and I don't know about minding their own business.
People are pretty nosy here.
Yeah, they're nosy, but me, but yes and no, it's a, it's a different kind of nosy.
Maybe it's less judgmental.
I mean, people are judgmental here too, but I think it's different.
It's interesting that you mentioned this perspective of Americans being less judgmental because
(10:45):
when I was in Europe, I felt the opposite, but maybe it's just my personal experience.
For me, when I met Europeans, they appeared to be more open-minded.
They appeared to be more interested in the world.
They appear to be more interested in other things aside from just the one country they
(11:05):
live in, aside from America.
America is more, America is definitely more career centered and more revolving around
money and material stuff.
That is why when I was traveling and I was living in Europe, that was actually why I
really liked and admired Europe.
I liked that it was not all about money.
I liked that you could have a life and recognition outside of a career.
(11:28):
That was not what you were only made of.
So it does go both ways.
It does go both ways.
And that's true.
I mean, in certain areas, there's more cultural depths in Europe.
There's a whole lot more cultural depth in the United States.
I mean, I guess what we're kind of touching on is too, we're the same age.
I grew up in Germany and you grew up here.
(11:48):
And I think it's a very natural thing to cherry pick the positives and negatives.
And you always see the better on the other side.
And that goes both ways because you're always looking at something that you didn't have
or don't have.
Both places come with pros and cons.
Also Europe, you know, saying Europe is a little bit tricky too, because Europe is incredibly
(12:11):
diverse.
There's so many countries.
That's true.
Kind of what you mentioned earlier too, about people being more superficial here, but being
friendlier on a surface level or at least having a pleasant conversation.
That is something that I honestly do like too.
I mean, yes, I wish sometimes people were less superficial, but at the same time, your
(12:33):
interaction with people is still very pleasant and your day can just feel a little bit brighter
if you have a pleasant conversation.
Whereas in Europe, because of language barriers for me, especially, and going to different
countries, people are not really happy behind a counter or they do not want to see you.
They maybe say hello and that's it.
(12:54):
There's like no interest whatsoever.
It is very dry.
It's business.
It has to be fast, you know, get out basically.
What about with traveling though?
So one thing I really loved about living in Europe was I could travel so easily from country
to country through buses, trains, Ryanair flights, really cheap flights.
(13:15):
And here you can't really do that.
That was something in the past that I really, really appreciated and really liked.
And that was part of the reason why I wanted to live in Europe in the past was because
it was so easy or considerably so easy to travel and to go to different places for the
weekend.
Whereas here you need to fly across the country to go anywhere and we don't really have an
(13:38):
extensive train system.
We don't have buses.
I mean, we have buses, but not an extensive bus network.
So I think, yeah, like you said, I mean, we do cherry pick what we like the most, but
that is a huge thing actually in lifestyle.
Yes, it has a historic reason why that is the case in America.
For one thing, America or the U.S. we could extend this even to Canada.
(14:02):
Let's say North America.
North America is just this big continent and Europe is very, I mean, it's, it's, it's
it's many different countries.
There are more people.
There's less space here.
You have Europe.
Yeah.
In Europe, there's less space compared to how many people live there.
It's crowded for like a better term.
(14:23):
And in America, individual mobility, i.e. the car, people just get in their car and
drive.
That was brought forward by Henry Ford, who made the car accessible to the masses because
that became such a success.
Railroad was neglected.
And that's why America is set up the way it's set up.
(14:44):
Now there is a lot of catching up to do and they try to get more trains and more public
transit in place.
But yeah, it's, it's, it's hard.
Another thing that I will harp on in terms of America and something that I do appreciate
more that I live back here.
And of course, since you've been here, I really like the idea of being able to own a standalone
(15:08):
house.
Because I feel like...
In the United States.
I say, yes, in the United States.
Because in Europe, that is, that is one thing now that I look back on from my earlier twenties.
And that's something that I really didn't take into account.
Yes, you can have a standalone house in many parts of Europe.
And especially if you go further into the countryside, I guess, but it's much less commonplace.
(15:34):
You just don't see it as much.
That is just not part of the culture.
It's much more communal.
People live in apartment buildings.
Marco grew up in an apartment building.
Yeah.
Home ownership is a much bigger thing in the U.S. hands down.
And that is very exciting.
Just to be able to have a standalone house with a garden and a yard and space of your
(15:56):
own.
You can be as loud as you want in your house and nobody's really going to hear you.
That's I mean, that is just advantageous.
So I do love that about living here in the U.S. again, because when I was in Europe and
I was living out of Airbnbs, I was often too loud when I would teach English and my voice
carries very far.
(16:17):
Yes, you can say that again.
It carries very far.
And I would always have to worry about disturbing neighbors.
Whereas here in a standalone house, you could probably scream.
No one would hear you.
Like in Germany in apartment buildings, you know, you can't during like lunchtime between
like 12 and I don't know, one or whatever.
(16:37):
So you can't make any noise.
You can't.
This is Germany?
Germany.
Yeah, you can't.
What?
Yeah, yeah.
You can't.
You can't vacuum.
Or even also on Sundays, you're not supposed to make a lot of noise because that's like
the quiet day.
I was not aware of that.
Let's say, you know, you want to hang a picture and you have to drill a hole in the wall or
something like that.
You can't do that during certain times because you're upsetting the neighbors and it's not
(17:01):
very considerate.
It's not considerate.
And here you can't just do whatever it is you want.
It's your property.
If you want to paint your house pink, you can paint your house pink.
Depends if you live in like, what is it, like a HOA?
Homeowners Association, which has community guidelines you need to follow.
There are certain like uniformities and stuff.
But if you want to, let's say there's a little tree in your yard and you want to cut it down
(17:24):
with a chainsaw, then you do that.
Yeah.
You know, no permission needed.
And that I like too, that you can just, that you're in that regard more free than in other
parts of the world.
Another thing I want to touch on is, you know, with all the things that we mentioned about
how America is more, you know, where people are more responsible for themselves and more
(17:46):
where you could think, oh, okay, America, Americans are more self-centered.
I don't think that's the case because I tell you why, because in, you know, in Germany,
you would say, oh, you know, everything is kind of publicly funded.
People pay money into a big bucket for the greater good and everyone benefits, which
is true where here people are just looking at themselves.
(18:06):
They don't care about other people.
That is not true.
So what I have noticed here is, especially people that become successful financially,
there is an expectation here for those people who have made it to give back to the community.
Yes.
Charity.
That's such a big thing.
And people are, and even people that are not millionaires, even people that are doing okay,
(18:30):
still are much more willing and ready to make generous donations to whatever.
People here are still, are still very philanthropic.
Yeah.
Very generous, very generous and really care about people and try to support people and
say, Hey, you know, someone has talent.
Somebody wants to start a company, needs some support.
(18:51):
Hey, why don't I, why don't I get involved in his business and put some money down?
I get some shareholdership of the company.
So that is where people look after each other and, and, you know, trying to work on kind
of win-win situations.
And so, yeah, Americans are very caring, very caring, very generous.
(19:11):
And did you think that before you lived here?
No, before I came here and in the last couple of years, maybe 10 years through the internet,
I, you know, I learned about this crowdfunding thing when somebody on the internet said,
Hey, you know, I have this, go fund me, go fund, whatever it is.
Yeah.
The crowdfunding where people are just random, random people on the internet donate money
(19:32):
through like PayPal and whatever.
Yeah.
For something.
And from a German perspective, I could not, I could not fathom how tens of thousands of
dollars could be collected in a pretty short period of time.
Like are people insane?
Are people like some random guy on the internet, you know, put something out there?
(19:53):
Yeah, you know, I'm doing this and that I need some support and people just open their
wallet and give money.
Wow.
And now that is true.
I understand why that is and where that comes from.
That perspective has changed.
Yes.
I mean, even in school, we are taught from a young age to volunteer, to give back to
(20:13):
the community.
That is something that is instilled.
Part of the culture and that is something that I do really like about being here.
Are there things about Germany or about Europe that you think are better or that you really
miss?
Are these big enough things to where you would want to live in Germany again?
(20:34):
Not big enough things.
There are things that I do appreciate in Germany or Europe in general.
I do think the food or the quality of food is better and more healthy.
I agree.
I think in Germany and Europe and other parts of Europe.
Yeah, I do.
I do like driving in Germany.
Those are the things I think because people are better trained there.
I would say it's maybe a little bit safer to drive.
(20:57):
That is a complaint that Marco makes on a regular basis.
I'm very adamant about it.
Twenty dollar driver's license.
Yes, I know.
I get carried away.
I get carried away.
But it's true.
Now people are not good drivers here.
People are on average are not good drivers.
They don't signal.
But anyway.
But that's, you know, those are small things.
I do like, OK, I do like the PTO kind of policy in Germany that you that you have more work
(21:20):
life balance is a bigger priority in Germany.
I do like that.
The question is, OK, how much longer can Germany afford to keep that up with the global competition,
you know, with the Chinas of the world and the Indians of the world?
Well, let's let's see how that will evolve over the next 20, 30 years.
So yeah, there are small things that I like.
And of course, you know, you go back and especially having grown up there, I still have a very
(21:44):
good network of people, friends and family that that are still there.
So you have a very solid group of people.
So with that, with that, if I had if I chose to go back to Germany or in that case, we
would choose to go to Germany.
You know, we would be OK.
It's not like it's not like it would be the end of the world and it would be no, not.
(22:06):
I don't want to paint that picture.
It's still a very livable country that's worthwhile to to live in and to be in.
If there is any American listening to this and you have thought of moving to Europe and
or you are going to move to Europe, Marco, do you have any specific words of wisdom or
(22:28):
advice that you would give to any American or any person outside of Europe who is moving
to Europe and some pointers of what they should be aware of when it comes to living in Europe?
Well, I guess I guess for one thing, getting there and kind of building your environment
(22:48):
and building your setup, it's very bureaucratic.
So to get permits and to apply for certain things, it's a very bureaucratic system,
specifically Germany.
But I think the whole European Union has become very bureaucratic for an American, especially
when you going to continental Europe.
So excluding the UK and Ireland, depending on where you go, people might not or might
(23:11):
speak very little English.
So to really delving into the culture, you really have to make an effort to learn a foreign
language.
You cannot go, especially when you want to live there.
I mean, on vacation, that's all fine.
But if you want to if you want to live there, doesn't matter if you're going to to Spain
or to Germany or to, I don't know, Greece or something, make an effort to assimilate
(23:37):
and try to learn the language.
Maybe another thing you will run into differences just like I have when I came here, little
things that don't have to be good or bad, but just differences where you shouldn't harp
on where you just where you just should accept that they are different.
Because here I also like the first couple of months I was like, you know, that's so
weird.
Why do they do this?
(23:57):
Why do they do that?
Can you think of examples?
I mean, I think the banking system here with the checks and stuff that is that we still
have paper checks.
Yeah, the way Germany does it.
Banking system here is kind of odd.
But then in Germany, you know, you would come you would you would go over there and you
would find out that on a Sunday you cannot go shopping and you would think why?
(24:19):
Why is that?
So you have why?
So when you when you leave the US and come to Europe or probably any other country for
that matter, even I think I guess if you went to Asia or Africa or whatever, you would also
want to make differences, accept and embrace it and not question it and not challenge it
and not like, oh, you know, back in America, we do this.
Yeah, that's back in America.
(24:40):
That is not where you are.
That's not gonna, you know, make your life any better.
Because just because you say, you know, back home, we do this differently.
Nobody is going to care.
That's true.
Yeah.
Now I will say sometimes I am guilty of that too.
Sometimes I can't help it.
Sometimes I'm also like, you know, back in Germany, we're all guilty of that.
But you cannot have that get the best of you.
(25:02):
So you have to be open minded and accept and respect certain cultural traits and oddities.
But try it.
Yeah, that's that's very good advice.
It's very enriching for one's personality to see, you know, on a for a longer period
of time, a different environment, a different culture.
And it makes you learn also question things that are going on back home or also appreciate
(25:27):
things going on.
Things that you never thought about, things that you took for granted.
So I do think for anybody, honestly, I would encourage anybody.
And I think in the US for Americans, I think it's that the easiest way to accomplish that
is maybe to move to Europe for a semester during college, for example.
If you can pull it off financially and whatever, whatever requirements there are, absolutely
(25:51):
do it.
I really think that that's very insightful and very applicable advice.
Like Marco was just saying with the oddities that are different from your home country.
So for me, being American, one time I was in Serbia and Eastern Europe, for example,
and everything in my Airbnb broke.
I have a reel on this if you have seen it.
(26:15):
Everything broke.
The electricity was out for nearly two days.
I didn't have running water.
I couldn't communicate with anybody.
The neighbors didn't like me.
I was too loud because the walls were too thin.
I mean, so many things went wrong.
And that was one of those times when I was really appreciative of America.
So if things break, just be ready to deal with dilemmas and challenges because you will
(26:40):
have them.
You're not you're not hating Serbia.
Just to get that clear.
So I'm just saying specifically, I have not been.
I have not been to Serbia, but I'm pretty sure it's better than its reputation.
It really is.
So with all of that being said, you still would choose living here over Germany.
It's not America is not perfect, but you know, there are still are many reasons to come here.
(27:03):
I think for me, I believe that I would be happy in either place.
I would definitely not say no to living in Europe.
Yes, I'm more aware of what the ramifications are to live in Europe.
But I feel overall, I'm still torn.
I think overall for quality of life, the US does win.
(27:24):
I do think that and that's a hard thing for me to say.
I think that you it really depends on your environment.
Like happiness always comes down to the environment, the people that you have around you, just
the financial or the economic situation that you're in.
It can go both ways.
You can you can be poor, you can be rich, you can be lonely, you can be miserable, you
(27:49):
can be that in any place.
I would also think like I think we could be perfectly happy living in Europe, too.
There are just differences.
It's always a trade off.
If you look at things, you know, item per item kind of, it's always a trade off.
So that is the episode.
Do you have anything you'd like to say to close off?
(28:09):
Well, I've said enough already.
I have a knife you have.
Yeah, just everyone, you know, pursue your happiness no matter what place.
Just live your life as best you can.
We really thank you so much for sticking with us.
If you're still listening or watching at this point in time, if you have fallen asleep,
good night.
Oh, I hope you have not fallen asleep.
(28:32):
If you have any specific requests or if you'd like to mention any specific feedback, you
know how to reach me at this point.
If you've been listening for a while, send me a message on Instagram at Once Upon a Trip
dot PC or on my main account at Mary Grace Crawford.
We will both be back with you very soon.
Marco is going to Germany for two weeks, so it'll be at least two weeks without Marco.
(28:56):
But that's OK.
When he gets back, we will get right back on it.
He's dispensable.
You're not dispensable.
No, no, you're really not.
You're not either.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
I will see you next Tuesday.
We hope that you have a wonderful week ahead and see you soon.
Bye bye.
See you.
(29:16):
Está dessa nueva göster
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!