August 13, 2024 • 17 mins
6:12 - Camp One Clap 2024: Day 12
For notes and details about the episode, check out the website here:
https://www.oneclapspeechanddebate.com/post/camp-one-clap-2-episode-12-jay-m-roccaforte-on-embracing-fear-growth-and-poetic-resilience
In this episode at Camp One Clap, we welcome the insightful Jay M. Roccaforte, a seasoned competitor and coach, who shares his understanding of fear as a pathway to growth. Drawing parallels with cultural practices like Halloween and using poetic reflections and personal anecdotes, Jay illustrates how fear and desire are intertwined, pushing us closer to our goals and enriching our lives. Get ready for an inspiring discussion that will empower you to embrace fear and embark on your own personal transformation.
If you’d like to join the discussion here at One Clap Speech and Debate, shoot me an email at lylewiley@gmail.com or reach out here on the website.
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YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UCyvpV56859lLA-X-EvHVYUg
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lyle Wiley (00:09):
well, hey, campers, it's a beautiful day.
12 here at camp one clap, whichmeans we've survived a dozen
fab days in the clapocalypse.
Today, speech royalty jmroccaforte is here with part one
of his two part series.
I'm your camp director and hostof the One Clap Speech and
Debate podcast, Lyle Wiley.
Hopefully this year at campwe're helping coaches and
(00:31):
competitors acknowledge theirfears and anxieties and embrace
their authentic voices for thecoming speech and debate season.
A quick reminder check the OneClap socials for today's social
media challenge.
I promise sometimes they don'thave anything to do with Nicolas
Cage.
With us today is superstarspeacher and friend of the
podcast, Jay Roccaforte.
(00:51):
Jm Roccaforte has becomecomfortable calling himself an
artist and a poet.
Throughout six years offorensics competition, Jay
became a four-time nationalchampion and international
champion as of 2023.
After taking a year off fromschool focusing on mental health
and volunteer coaching for hishigh school team, Jay will
(01:13):
return to competition with theWestern Kentucky University
forensics team, pursuing hisbachelor's in art education.
Jay is here at the Clapocalypseto acknowledge the terror
inherent in performance andexamine how we can conquer those
fears.
And it's time for Jay's firstepisode here at Camp.
Jay M. Roccaforte (01:45):
Hello One Clap listeners.
My name is JM Roccaforte and Idon't know if you can tell, but
I'm a bit on edge at the moment.
See, my spidey sense istingling, my amygdala is in
overdrive and I'm simultaneouslyfighting and flighting.
(02:07):
The day this segment releases,I will be in Kentucky, 16 hours
from home, working on my speechpieces for the coming season.
This probably isn't a big dealfor plenty of people, but here's
my first little piece of adviceto you Don't minimize fears you
(02:27):
can feel it can be a form ofavoidance, and the moment you
can actually know your fear forwhat it is, you can face it and
begin to overcome it.
I've competed and coached inspeech and debate for a total of
seven years now.
I still have so much I want toaccomplish and I still get so
(02:54):
anxious.
I am getting better and, ifyou'd like, I invite you on this
rickety bridge with me.
I promise we'll reach the otherside safely.
Here's the plan.
First, we will discuss thenature of fear and our cultural
practices that posture fear as ahuman truth.
(03:15):
Then we'll look at the anxietyof public speaking specifically
and how one will inevitably faceand conquer their fears
competing in a speech and debateenvironment Until, finally,
I'll share a horror story or twoof my own and explain how my
soul was reborn through fear,like Bruce Wayne and his bats.
(03:42):
Bruce Wayne and his bats, forstarters.
Think about the changingseasons as the lush heat of
spring and summer fades with thecold wind, it's natural to feel
some anxieties regarding thecoming winter.
But does one ignore this fear?
Continue wearing tank tops andshort shorts?
(04:05):
No, you are forced to take thisstruggle head on to change with
the leaves, which brings me tomy favorite season autumn, or
fall, if you're a fake fan.
It's no coincidence that, amonga vast array of cultures, this
time of year typically bringswith it cultural practices meant
(04:27):
to honor and celebrate the deadDia de los Muertos in Mexico,
samhain in Ireland, pitru Pakshain India.
America, we have Halloween,which I love, but key themes of
the holiday are often masked bythe more commercialized facets
(04:51):
Buying Walmart costumes andobtaining what should be illegal
quantities of almond joys.
Still, at a deeper level,halloween, lets us embrace the
dead.
Deeper level.
Halloween, lets us embrace thedead, the unknown, the fear that
is taboo under most othercircumstances, and I would like
(05:12):
to posture these practices asnot merely a celebration, but as
a necessary confrontation thatarises with the anxieties of the
past and the dread of thefuture.
Here we are in the present, thenow, and the power of the
creative voice is infinitelyaccessible to anyone who feels
(05:34):
moved to sing, to scream.
If you are instead consumed byfear, this voice becomes
petrified, unrehearsed andstarves.
In this way, I fully believethat speech and debate is life
(05:55):
or death, a use it or lose itsituation, A habitual practice
to fulfill a lifetime, tocommunicate, to perform Is To
live and to relive.
(06:15):
I once read that every poem thathas ever been written is a
misinterpretation of itself.
Right?
So if all of this feelsexcessively poetic, good, I am
hopelessly abstract, and yet Ihope the illusory words ignite
(06:37):
some curiosity in you.
He wrestles with the life cycleof a poet, the journey of
(07:00):
influencing and being influencedby the people we meet, each of
us a poet in every sense of theterm.
Person I meet with a morethoughtful and appreciative gaze
.
I'm no longer terrified ofmiscommunication and with more
and more exposure to thefailures of language, I fall
deeper in love with thisdisaster we get to witness and
(07:23):
contribute to.
Simply put, we are all wingingit.
Simply put, we are all wingingit.
And high school speech anddebate is only the starting line
.
At least it felt like that forme.
I was so afraid, but far moreafraid of never trying.
(07:45):
In Soren Kierkegaard's Fear andTrembling he writes of an old
proverb with insights into ourworld of spirit Only the man
that works gets the bread.
He elaborates that only he whowas in anguish finds repose.
Only he who descends into theunderworld rescues the beloved.
(08:08):
Only he who draws the knifegets Isaac.
We can't possibly hope tounpack all of that, especially
that last line.
But his basic argument is thatfear naturally postures us in
proximity to our goals and itshould be viewed as a tool In
(08:30):
this way.
Fear and desire are two sides ofthe same coin, a classic
yin-yang where nothing should betaken personally.
You simply want what you wantand fear what you fear.
And like a balancing scale, asyou take on more of life's
pleasures and pains, youunderstand what you value and
(08:52):
prioritize most.
In addition to those anxietiesand obstacles that stand between
you and that perfect ideal, you.
Most of the time there is arisk and reward attached to
whatever fear holds us, and thatfear becomes unhealthy the
moment you forget that balance.
(09:15):
Let's say that you want toperform the most amazing duo the
world has ever seen, but you'rescared the partner you work
with won't be as passionateabout the piece as you are, and
maybe you're scared they'll getlazy as the year continues and
maybe they'll end up lovingmarching band more than speech.
Maybe they'll stop coming totournaments and you'll have to
(09:37):
perform your duo alone.
Maybe everyone will laugh atyou as you stand there for 10
minutes straight, bawling youreyes out and taking sixth place,
disqualified because your tearsare considered props Deep
breath.
This may seem like a sillyexaggeration, but with each of
(09:59):
those maybes, you suppose theanxiety in your brain can take
you further and further into animaginary torture chamber of
your own design.
All of those things are awful,but I also just made them up
just now.
None of these things have everhappened to you, and even if
(10:19):
they did, it's possible that youwould never experience those
things back to back as easily aswe just imagined them,
back-to-back as easily as wejust imagined them.
You are strong and resilient,and as embarrassing and cringy a
speech and debate can besometimes, no one has ever died
(10:39):
from public speaking.
My anxiety actually caused meto google, if that's true, and
apparently the ninth USpresident died of pneumonia
after giving a two hour outdoorspeech in winter without a coat
or hat, which, luckily for us,doesn't count.
You know, and even if death inthis activity is unlikely,
(11:07):
sometimes it can still feel likeyou will die.
Sometimes you might feel likeyou want to die, and this is
where I tell you my deepest,darkest tales of humiliation and
rejection.
So turn the lights off andgather real close.
(11:29):
It's about to go down.
Okay, nsda Nationals 2019 inDallas, texas.
I didn't break past quarters inhumor and all that's left is my
(11:49):
poetry supplemental.
I remember on the way to thattournament, my coach told me
that we could like work on theintro.
I wanted to change it becauseI've been doing it as like a 10
minute version all year, cut itdown to five minutes for
nationals and I just wanted anew, fresh intro.
And I was so focused on humorthat like I had something
written but like I wasn'tworried about getting it
memorized until you know, Iactually had to go to the round,
(12:10):
like the next morning, so I wasjust reading it nonstop,
nonstop going through it.
I was like I got this, I gotthis.
Poor sophomore Jaden did notgot this.
I show up to that first round,there's like barely anybody in
the room.
It's just like one woman who'sjudging and like one other
competitor.
That other competitor like goesfirst, leaves the room.
(12:32):
Another person shows up.
I'm pretty sure that I'm likesecond or third speaker and so,
after she calls me, I go upthere, I do my teaser, which is
like clean fire, and then Iclose my book.
I look up and then I close mybook.
(13:05):
I look up and, oh my god, Ifreeze the worst I've ever
frozen on stage.
I don't even remember what thefirst word of my intro is.
I'm pretty sure the wordmonster was somewhere in there.
Like, obviously I don't rememberthat, but I'm just like looking
at this judge, the one othercompetitor in the rounds, like
nodding at me, like please, like, like he must've felt so bad
for me, like just, you can getthrough this, you got this.
Um, I actually ended up askingif I could like sit down and go
again later.
This woman felt so bad for me.
(13:25):
She was like oh my, like yes,of course, of course.
And this woman felt so bad forme.
She was like, oh my, like yes,of course, of course.
And so I sit back down.
I'm like, oh my God, that wasso awful and I didn't even like
get through it.
I have to perform again.
So she finally like lets theother person go, calls me up
again.
I run through the teaser dudeit's, it's perfect.
Again, clean.
I close my book and I'm notgoing to freeze up like I did
(13:49):
last time.
Okay, I didn't get the introthat I typed, but I definitely
fumbled through some basic ideaof what I was trying to get at.
But no, it was not good.
I took last place in that roundand that was only the first
round.
I still had one other beforethe next round of breaks.
But I remember after that roundgoing up to some friends and
(14:11):
just like bawling my eyes out,and so like the second round
went like somewhat better.
I still took last place, but atleast like there were more
people in the room and they werekind of like nodding along,
hyping me up, even though, likeI was a disaster getting through
this intro.
Like none of those werecomplete sentences, like my
(14:34):
intro is just one long run onsentence, like the way I'm
describing it to you right now.
I thought it'd be funny to tellthat story off script and just
kind of improvise it and likethe way that I'm actually like
fumbling right now through thestory expresses how I felt in
that moment.
But even after going likethrough that, I came back
(14:55):
stronger the next year.
You know, that round humbled mefor sure, but I don't let that
experience define my ability orwho I am as a person.
In fact, like after that, Ihonestly don't let my success
define me much either.
After doing this activity forso long and coaching the
(15:18):
students I used to compete withtoo, I have a much clearer view
of the horizon when it comes tothis activity.
This whole thing is a journeythat will last as long as you do
.
The thrill of winning onlylasts so long before you start
to wonder what's next.
Life goes on and I am trying sohard to keep up with myself.
(15:44):
But yeah, I hope these wordshave encouraged you to do the
same.
I hope these words haveencouraged you to do the same.
I'm pretty exhausted, but inthe next segment I have a much
more structured plan.
I'm going to take all theseconcepts I've laid out for you
and apply them to my all-timefavorite musical, hadestown.
(16:07):
So if that sounds at allappealing to you or if you
thought that I was weird in thisepisode.
Just know I'm going to be somuch worse in that next one.
It'll be analytical andobnoxious and I cannot wait to
see you there.
For now, you have all of mylove Till death.
(16:29):
Do us part.
You have all of my love Tilldeath.
Do us part.
Lyle Wiley (16:33):
Thank you so much to Jay for his honesty,
vulnerability and helpful advice.
Jay will be back next week withmore wit and wisdom for us.
What's going on at theClapocalypse tomorrow?
Well, natalia Kopak is here totalk about how trying new events
can be a great experience, andshe'll talk about her powerful
article that was published byEquality and Forensics earlier
(16:54):
this year.
Remember to check the socialmedia challenges on our socials
every day and we'll see youtomorrow.
Campers, oh, don't forget ifyou have a vampire over for a
meal and you're trying todistract them from meat and
blood and whatnot.
A tip for you their favoritefruit, it's nectarine For Camp
One, clap.
This is Camp Director Wileysigning off.
well, hey, campers, it's a beautiful day.
12 here at camp one clap, whichmeans we've survived a dozen
fab days in the clapocalypse.
Today, speech royalty jmroccaforte is here with part one
of his two part series.
I'm your camp director and hostof the One Clap Speech and
Debate podcast, Lyle Wiley.
Hopefully this year at campwe're helping coaches and
(00:31):
competitors acknowledge theirfears and anxieties and embrace
their authentic voices for thecoming speech and debate season.
A quick reminder check the OneClap socials for today's social
media challenge.
I promise sometimes they don'thave anything to do with Nicolas
Cage.
With us today is superstarspeacher and friend of the
podcast, Jay Roccaforte.
(00:51):
Jm Roccaforte has becomecomfortable calling himself an
artist and a poet.
Throughout six years offorensics competition, Jay
became a four-time nationalchampion and international
champion as of 2023.
After taking a year off fromschool focusing on mental health
and volunteer coaching for hishigh school team, Jay will
(01:13):
return to competition with theWestern Kentucky University
forensics team, pursuing hisbachelor's in art education.
Jay is here at the Clapocalypseto acknowledge the terror
inherent in performance andexamine how we can conquer those
fears.
And it's time for Jay's firstepisode here at Camp.
Jay M. Roccaforte (01:45):
Hello One Clap listeners.
My name is JM Roccaforte and Idon't know if you can tell, but
I'm a bit on edge at the moment.
See, my spidey sense istingling, my amygdala is in
overdrive and I'm simultaneouslyfighting and flighting.
(02:07):
The day this segment releases,I will be in Kentucky, 16 hours
from home, working on my speechpieces for the coming season.
This probably isn't a big dealfor plenty of people, but here's
my first little piece of adviceto you Don't minimize fears you
(02:27):
can feel it can be a form ofavoidance, and the moment you
can actually know your fear forwhat it is, you can face it and
begin to overcome it.
I've competed and coached inspeech and debate for a total of
seven years now.
I still have so much I want toaccomplish and I still get so
(02:54):
anxious.
I am getting better and, ifyou'd like, I invite you on this
rickety bridge with me.
I promise we'll reach the otherside safely.
Here's the plan.
First, we will discuss thenature of fear and our cultural
practices that posture fear as ahuman truth.
(03:15):
Then we'll look at the anxietyof public speaking specifically
and how one will inevitably faceand conquer their fears
competing in a speech and debateenvironment Until, finally,
I'll share a horror story or twoof my own and explain how my
soul was reborn through fear,like Bruce Wayne and his bats.
(03:42):
Bruce Wayne and his bats, forstarters.
Think about the changingseasons as the lush heat of
spring and summer fades with thecold wind, it's natural to feel
some anxieties regarding thecoming winter.
But does one ignore this fear?
Continue wearing tank tops andshort shorts?
(04:05):
No, you are forced to take thisstruggle head on to change with
the leaves, which brings me tomy favorite season autumn, or
fall, if you're a fake fan.
It's no coincidence that, amonga vast array of cultures, this
time of year typically bringswith it cultural practices meant
(04:27):
to honor and celebrate the deadDia de los Muertos in Mexico,
samhain in Ireland, pitru Pakshain India.
America, we have Halloween,which I love, but key themes of
the holiday are often masked bythe more commercialized facets
(04:51):
Buying Walmart costumes andobtaining what should be illegal
quantities of almond joys.
Still, at a deeper level,halloween, lets us embrace the
dead.
Deeper level.
Halloween, lets us embrace thedead, the unknown, the fear that
is taboo under most othercircumstances, and I would like
(05:12):
to posture these practices asnot merely a celebration, but as
a necessary confrontation thatarises with the anxieties of the
past and the dread of thefuture.
Here we are in the present, thenow, and the power of the
creative voice is infinitelyaccessible to anyone who feels
(05:34):
moved to sing, to scream.
If you are instead consumed byfear, this voice becomes
petrified, unrehearsed andstarves.
In this way, I fully believethat speech and debate is life
(05:55):
or death, a use it or lose itsituation, A habitual practice
to fulfill a lifetime, tocommunicate, to perform Is To
live and to relive.
(06:15):
I once read that every poem thathas ever been written is a
misinterpretation of itself.
Right?
So if all of this feelsexcessively poetic, good, I am
hopelessly abstract, and yet Ihope the illusory words ignite
(06:37):
some curiosity in you.
He wrestles with the life cycleof a poet, the journey of
(07:00):
influencing and being influencedby the people we meet, each of
us a poet in every sense of theterm.
Person I meet with a morethoughtful and appreciative gaze
.
I'm no longer terrified ofmiscommunication and with more
and more exposure to thefailures of language, I fall
deeper in love with thisdisaster we get to witness and
(07:23):
contribute to.
Simply put, we are all wingingit.
Simply put, we are all wingingit.
And high school speech anddebate is only the starting line
.
At least it felt like that forme.
I was so afraid, but far moreafraid of never trying.
(07:45):
In Soren Kierkegaard's Fear andTrembling he writes of an old
proverb with insights into ourworld of spirit Only the man
that works gets the bread.
He elaborates that only he whowas in anguish finds repose.
Only he who descends into theunderworld rescues the beloved.
(08:08):
Only he who draws the knifegets Isaac.
We can't possibly hope tounpack all of that, especially
that last line.
But his basic argument is thatfear naturally postures us in
proximity to our goals and itshould be viewed as a tool In
(08:30):
this way.
Fear and desire are two sides ofthe same coin, a classic
yin-yang where nothing should betaken personally.
You simply want what you wantand fear what you fear.
And like a balancing scale, asyou take on more of life's
pleasures and pains, youunderstand what you value and
(08:52):
prioritize most.
In addition to those anxietiesand obstacles that stand between
you and that perfect ideal, you.
Most of the time there is arisk and reward attached to
whatever fear holds us, and thatfear becomes unhealthy the
moment you forget that balance.
(09:15):
Let's say that you want toperform the most amazing duo the
world has ever seen, but you'rescared the partner you work
with won't be as passionateabout the piece as you are, and
maybe you're scared they'll getlazy as the year continues and
maybe they'll end up lovingmarching band more than speech.
Maybe they'll stop coming totournaments and you'll have to
(09:37):
perform your duo alone.
Maybe everyone will laugh atyou as you stand there for 10
minutes straight, bawling youreyes out and taking sixth place,
disqualified because your tearsare considered props Deep
breath.
This may seem like a sillyexaggeration, but with each of
(09:59):
those maybes, you suppose theanxiety in your brain can take
you further and further into animaginary torture chamber of
your own design.
All of those things are awful,but I also just made them up
just now.
None of these things have everhappened to you, and even if
(10:19):
they did, it's possible that youwould never experience those
things back to back as easily aswe just imagined them,
back-to-back as easily as wejust imagined them.
You are strong and resilient,and as embarrassing and cringy a
speech and debate can besometimes, no one has ever died
(10:39):
from public speaking.
My anxiety actually caused meto google, if that's true, and
apparently the ninth USpresident died of pneumonia
after giving a two hour outdoorspeech in winter without a coat
or hat, which, luckily for us,doesn't count.
You know, and even if death inthis activity is unlikely,
(11:07):
sometimes it can still feel likeyou will die.
Sometimes you might feel likeyou want to die, and this is
where I tell you my deepest,darkest tales of humiliation and
rejection.
So turn the lights off andgather real close.
(11:29):
It's about to go down.
Okay, nsda Nationals 2019 inDallas, texas.
I didn't break past quarters inhumor and all that's left is my
(11:49):
poetry supplemental.
I remember on the way to thattournament, my coach told me
that we could like work on theintro.
I wanted to change it becauseI've been doing it as like a 10
minute version all year, cut itdown to five minutes for
nationals and I just wanted anew, fresh intro.
And I was so focused on humorthat like I had something
written but like I wasn'tworried about getting it
memorized until you know, Iactually had to go to the round,
(12:10):
like the next morning, so I wasjust reading it nonstop,
nonstop going through it.
I was like I got this, I gotthis.
Poor sophomore Jaden did notgot this.
I show up to that first round,there's like barely anybody in
the room.
It's just like one woman who'sjudging and like one other
competitor.
That other competitor like goesfirst, leaves the room.
(12:32):
Another person shows up.
I'm pretty sure that I'm likesecond or third speaker and so,
after she calls me, I go upthere, I do my teaser, which is
like clean fire, and then Iclose my book.
I look up and then I close mybook.
(13:05):
I look up and, oh my god, Ifreeze the worst I've ever
frozen on stage.
I don't even remember what thefirst word of my intro is.
I'm pretty sure the wordmonster was somewhere in there.
Like, obviously I don't rememberthat, but I'm just like looking
at this judge, the one othercompetitor in the rounds, like
nodding at me, like please, like, like he must've felt so bad
for me, like just, you can getthrough this, you got this.
Um, I actually ended up askingif I could like sit down and go
again later.
This woman felt so bad for me.
(13:25):
She was like oh my, like yes,of course, of course.
And this woman felt so bad forme.
She was like, oh my, like yes,of course, of course.
And so I sit back down.
I'm like, oh my God, that wasso awful and I didn't even like
get through it.
I have to perform again.
So she finally like lets theother person go, calls me up
again.
I run through the teaser dudeit's, it's perfect.
Again, clean.
I close my book and I'm notgoing to freeze up like I did
(13:49):
last time.
Okay, I didn't get the introthat I typed, but I definitely
fumbled through some basic ideaof what I was trying to get at.
But no, it was not good.
I took last place in that roundand that was only the first
round.
I still had one other beforethe next round of breaks.
But I remember after that roundgoing up to some friends and
(14:11):
just like bawling my eyes out,and so like the second round
went like somewhat better.
I still took last place, but atleast like there were more
people in the room and they werekind of like nodding along,
hyping me up, even though, likeI was a disaster getting through
this intro.
Like none of those werecomplete sentences, like my
(14:34):
intro is just one long run onsentence, like the way I'm
describing it to you right now.
I thought it'd be funny to tellthat story off script and just
kind of improvise it and likethe way that I'm actually like
fumbling right now through thestory expresses how I felt in
that moment.
But even after going likethrough that, I came back
(14:55):
stronger the next year.
You know, that round humbled mefor sure, but I don't let that
experience define my ability orwho I am as a person.
In fact, like after that, Ihonestly don't let my success
define me much either.
After doing this activity forso long and coaching the
(15:18):
students I used to compete withtoo, I have a much clearer view
of the horizon when it comes tothis activity.
This whole thing is a journeythat will last as long as you do
.
The thrill of winning onlylasts so long before you start
to wonder what's next.
Life goes on and I am trying sohard to keep up with myself.
(15:44):
But yeah, I hope these wordshave encouraged you to do the
same.
I hope these words haveencouraged you to do the same.
I'm pretty exhausted, but inthe next segment I have a much
more structured plan.
I'm going to take all theseconcepts I've laid out for you
and apply them to my all-timefavorite musical, hadestown.
(16:07):
So if that sounds at allappealing to you or if you
thought that I was weird in thisepisode.
Just know I'm going to be somuch worse in that next one.
It'll be analytical andobnoxious and I cannot wait to
see you there.
For now, you have all of mylove Till death.
(16:29):
Do us part.
You have all of my love Tilldeath.
Do us part.
Lyle Wiley (16:33):
Thank you so much to Jay for his honesty,
vulnerability and helpful advice.
Jay will be back next week withmore wit and wisdom for us.
What's going on at theClapocalypse tomorrow?
Well, natalia Kopak is here totalk about how trying new events
can be a great experience, andshe'll talk about her powerful
article that was published byEquality and Forensics earlier
(16:54):
this year.
Remember to check the socialmedia challenges on our socials
every day and we'll see youtomorrow.
Campers, oh, don't forget ifyou have a vampire over for a
meal and you're trying todistract them from meat and
blood and whatnot.
A tip for you their favoritefruit, it's nectarine For Camp
One, clap.
This is Camp Director Wileysigning off.
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