6:3 - Camp One Clap 2024: Day 3
For notes and details about the episode, check out the website here:
https://www.oneclapspeechanddebate.com/post/camp-one-clap-2-episode-3-balance-resilience-and-advocacy-with-breanna-wollman-2024-nsda-stude
Join us at Camp One Clap as we welcome back South Dakota Speech and Debate star Breanna Wollman, who shares her journey from a nervous freshman to a triple threat champion in Original Oratory, Domestic Extemporaneous Speaking, and Lincoln-Douglas Debate. Breanna opens up about her fascination with the horror film "The Conjuring" and assesses her survival skills in a hypothetical apocalypse scenario, emphasizing the critical role of communication.
Balancing competitive pressure with personal enjoyment is no easy feat, especially for seniors in high school. In this episode, we reflect on the valuable lessons learned in Breanna's speech and debate journey, emphasizing the importance of remembering why you started and finding joy in the process. Breanna shares her insights on navigating leadership and performance expectations, the significance of grace from coaches and peers, and how a focus on fun can lead to surprising success. Finally, we explore the transformative power of speech and debate as tools for activism and personal growth. Don't miss it!
If you’d like to join the discussion here at One Clap Speech and Debate, shoot me an email at lylewiley@gmail.com or reach out here on the website.
You could also contact me on social media:
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TikTok: @oneclapspeechanddebate
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UCyvpV56859lLA-X-EvHVYUg
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lyle Wiley (00:09):
Hey campers, it's another lovely day here at the
Clapocalypse Camp One.
Clap Two on the One Clap Speechand Debate podcast is back and
today we'll have a visit fromSouth Dakota superstar and NSDA
student of the year finalist,brianna Woolman.
I'm your camp director and hostof the One Clap Speech and
Debate podcast, lyle Wiley.
I hope everyone is ready toface any horrors that might
(00:30):
stand in their way and sharetheir voices with confidence and
joy this season.
Quick reminder check the OneClap socials for today's social
media challenge.
It's been a lot of fun to seefolks out there engaging and I
hope you keep it up.
Let's learn a little bit moreabout our guest on today's show,
(00:53):
who's back for Camp One Clap.
After being a counselor on thepodcast last year, brianna
Wollman is a speech and debatepowerhouse acting as a triple
threat in the events OriginalOratory, domestic Extemporaneous
Speaking and Lincoln-DouglasDebate.
Brianna competed on the SouthDakota circuit for Aberdeen
Central High School.
She's a two-time originaloratory state champion, as well
as the Lincoln-Douglas statechamp this year.
Aside from being her school'sfirst four-year qualifier at
(01:15):
nationals and ranking fifthnationally in NSDA points, she
was a student of the yearfinalist this season.
This fall, brianna will be afreshman at the University of
Minnesota Twin Cities, studyingpolitical science, with
aspirations to serve on CapitolHill one day.
All right, well, we better jumpright into my interview with
speech and debate superstarBrianna Woolman.
(01:36):
So welcome back to Camp OneClap, brianna Woolman.
It's so great to have you backon the podcast after another
dominant year in speech anddebate for you.
Breanna Wollman (01:46):
Well, thank you for having me.
I'm really excited to be back.
Lyle Wiley (01:50):
Yeah, you've stumbled upon the Clapocalypse
this year here at.
Camp One, clap Two, but we'reso glad you're here, maybe you
can help us out.
I want to set the tone for ourtheme this year by maybe opening
up about fear a little bit.
What's your favorite scarystory?
Give me like a movie, book,spoken story okay.
Breanna Wollman (02:11):
Um, I'm not gonna lie, I especially with
like scary movies.
I can't watch too many of thembecause when I was younger, like
I was really like unnecessarilyafraid of ghosts so and it like
sticks around sometimes too.
But, um, the best like scarymovie I've ever watched, just
because it made me think a lot,was probably like the original
(02:33):
Conjuring movie.
Um, I think like the wholeseries is good, but like the
film quality too.
It's I'm not like a huge likefilm nerd, but like the quality
of that movie and then just likethe actual storyline that was
derived from it's just, it'sjust like a really crazy movie.
It just makes you think a lotabout the existence of the
supernatural.
(02:54):
So it's not like necessarily myfavorite because it's like oh,
it's fun to watch, but it's.
There's just a lot behind itthat I appreciate about the
movie, even if it probably gaveme nightmares the first time I
watched it yeah, yeah, that's a.
Lyle Wiley (03:09):
That's a spooky one yeah, one of the things I do
appreciate about the horrorgenre is that you get to explore
spiritual stuff and religiousstuff and a lot of like
interesting themes.
It's kind of hard to explore inother genres.
But yeah, you have to do it atthe expense of, like, uh, stuff
that's scary and extremenightmare fuel.
So maybe I don't know- yeahit's a good one.
(03:32):
so, speaking of the apocalypse,um, if there was like an actual
apocalypse, like a we're likewandering around in a
post-apocalyptic wasteland, um,like something out of a
dystopian novel On a scale ofone to 10, how likely are you to
survive?
Breanna Wollman (03:47):
I really wish I could say that this number is
higher, but it's probably not.
I used to love the show theWalking Dead, but if there's
anything that would be told meis that I genuinely would not
have what it takes to survive.
I'm sure that being in thatcircumstance it hardens you and
because you have to like changewhat it means to live and like
(04:10):
the things you have to sacrificeis whatever, but I like the
thing, the sacrifices you haveto make.
They're a lot and I just I havean extremely weak gut, like the
percent of zombies I thinkwould probably take me out.
So I'm going to go a solidthree or four.
(04:31):
I don't have much faith inmyself, but I know I'm hopefully
never in that situation where Ihave to survive an apocalypse.
Lyle Wiley (04:40):
So yeah, no kidding, Right Like, yeah, I don't.
I don't think that I would bethe most useful uh, do you have,
do you have?
Any like skills that you'dbring to the table, like any you
know?
Breanna Wollman (04:53):
uh, I don't know skills that would be useful
well, um, if there's anythingthe walking dead told showed me,
is that communication, even ina post-apocalyptic world, is
really important when you'redealing with, like other groups
that you come in, um face toface with.
So I think I would be able tolike um communicate.
(05:15):
You know my speech and debateskills, but, uh, that's about it
.
Um, not much for, not much of ahunter.
Um, I probably would have areally hard time at first, like
doing what it takes to survivein terms of killing like zombies
or something Apocalyptic world.
But yeah, I don't know, I cancommunicate, that's about it.
Lyle Wiley (05:40):
Yeah, yeah, well, hey, listen, they're going to
need communicators, so I thinkthat's a valid skill.
But yeah, no, I think I willfind probably interviewing,
speech and debate folks thatmany of us may not feel
comfortable with our skill levelin the apocalypse.
But we'll find out, maybe we'llfind some people.
(06:01):
So, oh my gosh, what anincredible year for you.
It's your senior year this year, right, brianna?
And so you went out on thenational stage as a finalist for
the NSDA student of the year.
Like, wow, what an honor.
Tell us about that experienceat Nats.
What was that like?
How'd you find out about your,you know, being announced as a
(06:21):
finalist?
Like, what was that like?
Breanna Wollman (06:26):
Oh, well, well, thank you first of all, but, uh
, the experience was great.
I think that the people thatwork for the nsda the primary
person that I worked with hername was, uh, annie, and she is
like just incredible at her job.
Like I told her that to herface, it's um sometimes getting
people that are like naturallycomforting, especially in
positions where they're workingwith, especially like terrified
(06:50):
and nervous people like all thestudent of the year finalists
were walking into.
That interview is reallyimportant and Annie, she, she
just did a fantastic job but umit it was um a really cool
experience and it kind of set upthe tone for the rest of the
week and the nerves a little bit.
Lyle Wiley (07:10):
On.
Breanna Wollman (07:10):
Sunday before all competition, like when
people were checking into theexpo.
So we did our interviews.
They also did some filming,things like making the hype
video for the student of theyear finalists, the hype video
for the student of the yearfinalist and, um, unfortunately
I am not immune to nsdapropaganda.
(07:30):
Get me a good hype video.
I will be a million times moreexcited to be there than I
originally was.
Um, hype videos, just they.
They have that effect on me.
Um, but that was seeing yourface on like a screen and play
on a video played in front of somany people.
It's, it's just insane.
(07:51):
But also meeting the otherfinalists was really cool.
Um, the person who won studentof the year um, medium.
He is from south dakota like wehad two finalists this year
from south dakota.
He is incredibly and it wasjust really cool being able to
watch him tell so much hate intheir hearts for Des Moines,
(08:12):
iowa, but coming from theMidwest.
That drive was extremely short.
(08:33):
We drove to Louisville, wedrove to Phoenix.
This drive we did it in half ofa day, so that was awesome and
they had so many great foodoptions.
We ate Korean barbecue I.
They had so many great foodoptions, like we ate Korean
barbecue, I door dashed Indianfood we ate at, like this
Chinese place or I think it wasThai actually, but it it was
(08:53):
fantastic Like there was so much.
Like I understand, like thecritiques about Iowa not having
as much culture as other places,I think in terms of
affordability, which issomething a lot of school or the
nsda should consider, whenchoosing a national site was
really like it's.
It was a huge pro.
(09:14):
That can't be ignored.
Inclusion that's.
Lyle Wiley (09:17):
That's was great yeah, I was similarly like
disenchanted with the idea ofgoing to des moines, iowa for
two years in a row, but alsolikewise pretty impressed with
the experience.
Like I thought, they did apretty nice job, and Des Moines
was was surprisingly prettypretty great place to hang out
(09:37):
with a bunch of amazing students.
Breanna Wollman (09:40):
And driving in Des Moines is so easy too.
Like I, I would have feltcomfortable driving the van.
I'm not going to lie.
Lyle Wiley (09:47):
That's a big deal, though right For us as less
urban folks like, going to aplace like Des Moines was way
less intimidating.
Yeah, so I'm glad you had agreat Nats experience and it was
just the cap of another reallygreat season for you.
What were some of yourhighlights and some of the
(10:08):
memories that you're going totreasure from your entire high
school speech and debateexperience?
Breanna Wollman (10:14):
So I think that something that is.
It's really unfortunate thatcompetitors like lose sight of a
lot and I've definitely alsolost sight of this so many times
in so many differenttournaments this year and like
before this year but we get sofocused on like feeling the
pressure to do well, likeespecially, um, like the feeling
(10:35):
I feel like it's kind ofinevitable, like disappointing
like your, your younger peers asan upperclassman or your
coaches, and you just like losesight of what's important in
this activity and it's havingfun.
Um, in the tournaments.
Before I could remember like Ihave like incredible issues with
(10:57):
stress and that's one of thethings that defined this year,
especially the beginning halffor me, unfortunately, because I
let it control the way I felttoo much, but I've had like
really bad stress, ulcers fromspeech and debate, and that's
not something I'm proud ofadmitting.
But going through this year Iwas able to like give my get a
(11:20):
tiny bit better at gettingmyself breaks when necessary.
So I know you mentioned thehighlights, but we're getting to
a happy point.
I promise is that thehighlights for me this year were
the tournaments that I was ableto remember that I do this
activity because I like it andnot because it makes me
incredibly stressed out, andeven if I don't perform the way
(11:43):
I want to, that I'm notdisappointing people around me
and it seems like it's it's amental highlight.
But, um, those are just asimportant than like accolades
and stuff because at the end ofthe day, like your senior year,
there's so much pressure, likeinternally and externally on a
high note, to be a student that,um, coaches and competitors and
(12:08):
like an entire state uh, willremember for years to come.
But at the end of the day,sometimes you, you just have to
do all you can do in an activity, try your best, um, be kind to
other people, and if that willeven impact, then then so be it.
That's awesome.
But sometimes I, especially thisyear, got lost and the reason I
(12:33):
do this activity and refindingthat was probably a huge
highlight.
It's not a specific event, itwas something that happened over
a long period of time withshort growth, but.
But I feel that going intocollege this year I can remember
to pull that in.
But I also just had so much funwith my friends at tournaments.
(12:54):
This year I was able toconvince one of my best friends,
who never did speech and debatein her entire life to come and
do oratory for our team.
So she came and traveled withus.
Literally most of my closestfriends were there at
tournaments and it was soawesome going from around that I
feel like I stuttered too muchwhen I was giving my exam speech
(13:16):
or phrased my question wrong,reciting it and things like that
.
And just go back and see theirfaces and laugh and remember the
reason why I'm there forconnection that's uh, that's
like really mature and, um,awesome stuff to share with us.
Lyle Wiley (13:35):
That is like hard to learn, like really hard to
learn.
I think it's, I think our.
I mean I don't want to get toodeep here, but the there's some
cultural issues with us sort ofseeing worth in people based on
what they produce instead of whothey are.
Breanna Wollman (13:51):
And I think in our activity, more than any
activity, we need to keep tryingto communicate that to people,
that their worth is not based onhow well they do do, especially
in an activity in comparison tolike a lot of athletics, where
it's a whole team, it's likepeople pitted against another or
quote-unquote pitted againstanother, like individual person,
(14:14):
and it's.
It is really hard balancingthat because especially um and
it was the case for me and, I'massuming, a lot of other
competitors, but you don'trealize that until you genuinely
like hit the bottom, feelinglike extremely exhausted and
stressed out and like notenjoying um, what you used to
(14:37):
love so much, because you madeit something way bigger and
angrier than it was.
Like debate.
Debate is serious, it can I.
I love this activity.
Lyle Wiley (14:48):
It was like the devotion of my high school
experience, but at the end ofthe day it is just an activity
and remembering that is crucialyeah, I mean we're all pretty
competitive, um, but I think, ifyou let that overtake what it
is like, which is an activitythat's meant to to help students
(15:10):
give a give the give anopportunity to say what they
care about and and talk aboutthings that are important and
use their voice.
It's like if the competitionbecomes front and center, I
think things can get pretty hardfor people, especially seniors.
I think you really are puttinga.
This is good for coaches tounderstand, like it's something
I've learned over coaching that,like the senior year is a tough
(15:32):
year for people withexpectations put on them after
they've had success.
Um and there.
So they have leadershipexpectations, they have
performance expectations.
Um, you kind of start to assume, as a coach, that certain
competitors are going to be ableto produce certain results I
think, it's pretty dangerousyeah, it really is.
Breanna Wollman (15:50):
Those expectations can like take the
spark out of a competitor soquickly because, um, maybe their
goals for a season change andif those goals aren't reflective
of, like exactly like you said,success they've had in the past
, it can be really challengingfor someone to actually go after
what they want instead of theexpectations like put upon them,
(16:12):
not not only by coaches.
Sometimes it's like I mentionedearlier it's it's younger
classmates and peers that canlook at a competitor and look up
to them because of theirsuccess in an event and it can
just like don't know, it's notnecessarily like disorienting,
but it's just kind of it'sdefinitely interesting.
(16:33):
But we all need to like affordother individuals some grace,
like some space to make thisactivity what they want to.
Lyle Wiley (16:44):
Absolutely.
Did you have a pretty likestressful year in general too,
as a senior?
I mean, did you take somecollege level courses and make
some big decisions about yourfuture and all that kind of?
Breanna Wollman (16:54):
stuff I am.
Neither of my parents went tocollege, neither of them went to
high school, for that matter.
So managing the collegeenvironment this year on top of
senior debate season andeverything else I was working on
at school, like from communityservice projects to being the
(17:14):
president of Future BusinessLeaders of America at my school,
it was so, so, so much and asmuch as I have like so many
fantastic memories, like on topof the really difficult things I
did this year with courseworkand extracurriculars and stuff,
um, I, as much as I sometimesthink about I, want to redo this
(17:36):
year.
I don't.
I had an amazing setup withsupport system from my coaches
and, like I mentioned, myfriends and me still have my
best high school memories thisyear.
But it's so much to go throughemotionally and I said it's over
, but at the same time, I'mexcited to move on and work on
(18:01):
something else and I'mexperiencing something that's.
Lyle Wiley (18:04):
That's exciting, did you?
Do you think?
I mean, a lot of this is, I'msure, stuff that you've learned
about yourself for the in theactivity this year, but is there
is there anything else likeunique that you learned about
the activity or yourself thisseason?
Breanna Wollman (18:17):
This just I.
It's so crazy.
As soon as you start likeprioritizing having fun, that um
everything you do, like youstart competing better.
And that's not necessarilyanything like crazy or entirely
unique, like I feel, like yousay it out loud and it's common
(18:38):
sense, but um, for me in pastyears it's been like if I'm not
100% serious, like focused ongetting this done, I'm gonna
compete poorly.
And then this year when I thetournaments that I decided I was
going to go in and have funwere the ones I competed the
best in, like, oh my gosh, inJanuary this year I was, um, we
(19:02):
had a competition that was likean hour away from my town, so we
didn't stay the night there.
We drove there, came back onFriday night and then Saturday
night drove there again after weall slept in our homes and my
car car it ran out of gas on thedrive to the school in the
morning, um, so I made ourentire bus like an hour late to
(19:25):
this tournament.
My coach had to come because myparents were out of town.
My coach had to come get gas,fill up my car.
Um, help me while I sat outsidein the frigid january Dakota
colds at 530 in the morning itwas absolutely terrible and by
the time my car had gotten gasgot off the side of the road.
I was like I don't want to goto this tournament.
(19:48):
I was so tired because I didn'tgo to bed until like 1am the
night before, so I was runningoff of like three and a half
hours of sleep.
It was terrible, but I was sosleep deprived and I was like,
if this tournament goes bad, Idon't even care, I'm just gonna
have to try to have fun.
Because I'm feeling miserableright now.
And I ended up winning thewhole tournament in LD that day,
(20:12):
somehow by the grace of Celsiusafter Celsius, and that day
felt so weird because I can justremember in the morning like
wishing that my coach would dropme from LD and I could just go
home and sleep after this wholething happened.
But he didn't do that.
And I'm sure if I would haveasked him he would have, but I
(20:35):
was not about to do that as asenior with only so many LD
tournaments left.
Um, but it's.
It's perspective is huge, aswhat that story uh shares.
But um, yeah, that wasdefinitely something.
That's.
That goes to show.
The thing I learned this seasonis that having fun should
(20:55):
probably be your biggestpriority and can help you,
especially with success.
State was another thing whereperspective was really important
because I an extent on friday I?
I crash and burned in all of myrounds.
I?
Um.
The only tournament I did notmake finals, and except in this
(21:17):
year, was state, because it wasa scheduling issue where um, we,
the South Dakota activitiesassociation, has a very cut and
dry on the schedule you couldhave um, depending on the
entries that you have in anevent.
So one of my judges was late inmy oratory round.
Um, though I was first speaker,got out there as soon as I can.
(21:40):
I lost 12 minutes of extempprep time that the schedule
could not be changed to get itback, and that first round I
gave a bad speech because thelast loss of time, like it,
freaked me out.
It affected all of my otherextemp rounds freaked me out.
It affected all of my otherstem rounds and I I did.
(22:01):
I went back in my hotel room assoon as breaks came out and I
cried so hard because oratorythis year as much as I love
oratory, it was not my strongsuit.
Um, the least expected thingthat I that came out of this
tournament was winning oratory,because it had not been the year
I'd hoped.
In fact, the expectation thisyear was I really wanted to NLD
(22:22):
and Xtemp seemed what was mostrealistic for that.
So it was just another exampleof getting out of your head and
remembering the real reasonyou're there, things like that.
Because, again, as I mentionedearlier, the tournaments that I
remembered what was important tome using my voice, having fun,
(22:44):
communicating with others it wasthose are the tournaments I did
best in.
And I know I've said that somany times, but it's something
that it took me so long torealize, and if there's anything
I can afford to othercompetitors this year, even
especially if they're going intotheir senior year, is that you
will do better for yourselfmentally, physically, in school
(23:05):
and competition when youremember that you were a human
being, you were allowed to makemistakes first and go in this
activity grateful that you canbe there.
Lyle Wiley (23:15):
that's yeah I love that.
That's so important.
Absolutely agree, and yeah,like again, just congratulations
on an amazing year.
I want to change things up fora second and have a ghostly
spooky interlude.
Okay, you mentioned earlierthat when you were younger you
were, you were afraid of ghosts,uh, so maybe you maybe I will
(23:39):
see if you've changed your views.
Do you believe in ghosts and inthe paranormal like why?
Or?
Breanna Wollman (23:44):
why, not um, so this kind of ties back with the
conjuring movie too, because amovie like that, based on true
events, even if it's not like acomplete, 100 accurate
reflection of what happened itwas one of those things where,
as I like I mentioned inelementary school, I was
terrified it's not like acomplete, 100% accurate
reflection of what happened.
(24:05):
It was one of those thingswhere, as I mentioned in
elementary school, I wasterrified of ghosts.
That fear kind of dimmed downuntil I watched the Conjuring
movie and then I was like, oh mygod, maybe the ghosts are real.
So right now I'd probably sayI'm leaning more to.
The ghosts are real in theparanormal it's.
Conversations like this aredifficult and not so not
difficult at the same time.
(24:25):
It really depends on how it'sframed.
But it is like the existence ofexactly like you said, with
like faith and religion.
It ties into it sointerestingly, like faith and
religion, it ties into it sointerestingly.
And, um, I'm not necessarilylike someone who like it's it's
(24:45):
I'm just having word soup rightnow um, but I believe in ghosts.
It's honestly would not havethe time to explain like every
instance or like why I thinkghosts are real, but it's just
something that I like to feel Idon't know that's.
Lyle Wiley (25:01):
That is legit.
It's a very difficult thing totry to.
Breanna Wollman (25:03):
It's very personal and I don't know
complicated like no reason atall, because, well, there is a
reason, by ghosts, like a lot oftimes they're framed as like
halloween things and it's likeanimated things.
Then you're like, oh my God,but these could be real and I
don't know.
Lyle Wiley (25:24):
All right.
Well, let's shift away from theghosts for now.
Yeah, that's a good choice, Ithink, moving to like.
I want to talk about likeactivism and speech and debate
as a tool for leading to change.
So how does speech and debate,like, create opportunities for
leading to change?
So how does speech and debatecreate opportunities for
students to become agents ofchange in their local spaces and
then in the larger, morenational space?
Breanna Wollman (25:46):
I think this question ties really great back
into being a student of the yearfinalist, because that is the
entire idea, like honoringstudents that took the skills
that they learned from speechand debate and generated change
in their community.
I think with the skills thatspeech and debate teaches
students, there comes a hugeresponsibility to not let those
(26:10):
skills go to waste.
Navigating how you put that touse in your life is going to be
different for everybody.
Negligating how you put that touse in your life is going to be
different for everybody.
But I think if there is anissue that you are passionate
about and you have time, noteven resources you can develop
and find resources later, butfirst the time you can find
(26:30):
other like-minded issues thatcare about that issue.
Aside from speech and debate, myhigh school experience was
defined by this project, orprimarily defined by this
project.
I started with some of myfriends called Project Red where
, like the entirety of my juniorand senior year, we worked on
trying to eliminate periodpoverty on the local state and
(26:55):
in my school, like those levels,and it was entirely because of
speech and debate, the speakingskills, that we gained the
writing skills, like we assistedin writing the first ever bill
in the South Dakota legislaturethat would have ended the pink
tax and dealing with those kindsof things, especially again
when you have the time.
(27:15):
It's so important becausespeech and debate made you a
communicator for a reason, andsure it's great being able to
express in a debate roundsomething, but if you are not
taking those speaking skills andyour ability to persuade others
and applying them in other ways, then I think you're cutting
(27:39):
yourself short as a competitoras well, because the way you
become a well-roundedcommunicator is being able to
talk and obviously talk, but tobe able to communicate not only
in a debate round, but also howto have hard conversations
outside of rounds where your winloss is not defined by a ballot
(28:02):
but instead how you like anopportunity to advance on an
issue.
That sounds super complicatedbecause I didn't explain it the
most beautifully, especiallywith the debate thing.
But there were multiple timeswith the project where something
(28:22):
felt like a loss, but in thelong term it was definitely a
win, and debate cuts things veryblack and white with what is a
win and what is a loss in termsof rankings, but dealing with
things that are like perceivedlosses the ability to persevere,
especially in that realm.
It just makes you a betterrounded person and like someone
(28:48):
who can empathize with otherpeople and you don't think that
things like that tie intocompetition, but it 110 does,
because being genuine and um,it's not something, it is some.
You can very clearly tell whensomeone cares.
I believe we're talking aboutplatform events a little bit
later, but being able to sharestories like that about how you
(29:10):
cared about an issue and you'vetried to tackle an issue in
whatever way you could, I thinkit really can sell a story even
more, because you can make otherpeople care about an issue
where you can then use yourplatform speech and debate to
advocate for.
So it's very like felt kind ofround in my explanation, but in
(29:31):
the end you have aresponsibility, um being a
communicator, to do something um, no matter like how small it is
, um, and it doesn't always haveto be like volunteering in the
way that we think it is.
It's like a Salvation Army, forexample, but helping younger
classmates on your team or inyour school, assisting the
(29:56):
person that doesn't feel likethey have a community in your
school or other areas like thethird places you know, like out
in public or maybe, if you'rereligious at a church, it's
again like being a well-roundedperson outside of the round
makes you a better competitor aswell.
That that was also just a lotof talking, but I think I I hit
(30:19):
all the um the boxes on what Iwanted to get out of that with
that answer.
Lyle Wiley (30:25):
So just like some great stuff in there, but just a
follow up question or thoughtDo you experience with your
peers and other students thatyou know that are involved in
speech debate or, just like highschool age students, sort of a
fatalistic kind of mentalityabout the their impact on what's
happening in the world?
(30:46):
Um, like, uh, uh, a fear thatthat that they can't impact
change.
Breanna Wollman (30:53):
Yeah, um, and that's it's definitely.
What is a roadblock for mostpeople is because, especially
with larger issues that impact alot of individuals, you don't
think there's anything that youcan do.
But, like I, I assure you thatisn't true.
Um, you don't have to start anentire project or dedicate like
(31:13):
every extra hour.
You have to something to makean impact.
Um, and that definitely is whatcreates barriers for change
being generated on so manydifferent issues.
But it starts even as simple ifyou do have like an hour or two
um aiding your time where youcan see it needed in your
community.
Um, a lot of people this isthis is phasing a little bit
(31:38):
away but especially, I watched alot of like college admission
videos this year and a lot ofthe advice people were like
talking about is, if you have apassion project, like you're
guaranteed to get into a collegeand a lot of people in the
comments being like, oh my gosh.
I never started like a wholenon-profit that created like a
(31:58):
cure to a terrible disease, likeI'm not gonna get anything like
, all I have is, um, normalvolunteer hours.
And that seems so ridiculous tome because, first of all, the
people that framed collegeadmissions like that, that's not
what they should have done.
That's not like.
Starting a non-profit is notsomething that's accessible to
everybody.
Different people have differentresources in different time,
(32:21):
whatever but you still likechanged something.
Even if you like didn't developsomething from the scratch, you
can still aid into somethingthat already exists.
Like I mentioned earlier,salvation armies or something
that is national, and every caseI've seen require assistance
(32:42):
and just helping their missiongo forward.
You're still creating a lot ofchange, even if it's not
something that you cannecessarily like, feel feel
isn't necessarily the right word, but it's.
That ripple effect still existsbecause you took the time out
of your day to help like smallthings can have a big impact in
(33:06):
the long term yeah, yeah, I andI do.
Lyle Wiley (33:10):
I think that, even if students want to approach
advocacy in a larger way,there's opportunity for that in
ways that I don't know, thatthat a lot of students know
exist.
And yeah, I mean, I think yourstory and what you've done is a
pretty good example of that,like starting at a local level
and and like thinking about itat a larger level.
(33:30):
I mean, that's, it's kind ofhow things operate in the adult
world as well.
Breanna Wollman (33:36):
So so yeah.
Lyle Wiley (33:39):
I mean, this is like important to me, because I even
see this with fellow educatorsand fellow adults, just like
this sort of you know like well,we can't.
Breanna Wollman (33:47):
We can't do anything about how things are,
like they just are the way thatthey are and we just need to
like passively, kind of likedeal, and yeah, I think that's a
very dangerous way to slideinto oblivion into oblivion and
(34:07):
um with with the idea of likeit's not necessarily, it's not
learned helplessness at all,that's the wrong phrase for it,
but the like, the idea ofperceived helplessness.
It's really damaging.
Um, because people get so stuckwhen they think that they
aren't create, they don't havethe capacity to create any
change, no matter how big orsmall that change is.
Lyle Wiley (34:26):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
What's next for you?
What's next for Brianna?
What are you going to do?
Breanna Wollman (34:34):
Well, I will be at the University of Minnesota
Twin Cities.
So, right in Minneapolis, goGophers and I'll be studying
political science.
I'm thinking a double major incommunications as well.
But if there's anything thatdebate showed me these past four
years is that politics issomething that I can talk
(34:56):
anyone's ear off and aconversation that sometimes
right now, is extremelydifficult to have.
But that doesn't mean it's anyless important, and especially
in this political climate, likethere is so much need for people
educated in government to getinto government.
So, with campaigns, all thingslike that, in communication,
(35:19):
it's, if you're in speech anddebate, you know how important
communication is when.
That's why I thought it waslike a hand-in-hand thing.
Um, I'm so excited for my nextfour years there in the twin
cities.
I, coming from a town with like30 000 people, which it's it's
decently sized, is going to be asignificant change where my new
(35:41):
school has its very own zipcode.
Opportunities and getting outof my comfort zone is something
that was really important to me,um, when choosing where to go
and what is next for me.
So I'm hoping I can work onsome internships, um, in dc and
in the minneapolis area, at thecapitol in st Paul.
(36:02):
Also, right now I am possiblyworking on getting a coaching
job, so that's cool.
It's difficult to navigate withmanaging like, as I mentioned
earlier, being a first-genstudent the first year at a
college.
Managing like what I canrealistically commit myself to
(36:23):
because I don't want tooverburden myself like I have in
the past.
But short term, um, u of M, Iam about 99% sure, law schools
after that, but we're stillworking out the details.
I'm trying to, um, makedecisions as they come and bring
(36:43):
to live in the moment here too.
Lyle Wiley (36:46):
Oh yeah, absolutely I mean that sounds like a great
plan, but if it changes, itchanges and that's okay.
Well, that's exciting.
Congratulations and good luckto you in the next steps.
Thank, you yeah of course I wasthinking it'd be fun to close
out interviews by talking aboutthe visceral fear of speech and
(37:08):
debate.
For like many people,especially maybe non speech and
debate folks, Just in general,the general public has got this
terrifying like horrible feelingabout public speaking.
Breanna Wollman (37:20):
So why is?
Lyle Wiley (37:22):
speech and debate worth the terror, the fear.
Breanna Wollman (37:25):
Because, as I've touched on a lot of the
same things this interview,because they're true in so many
ways and it's learning how to bean advocate for things you care
about, but also because beingsomeone who can have a
conversation with another humanbeing or addressing a group of
(37:45):
people will assist you in likeevery single aspect of your life
.
It's something that was alwayssold to us like especially why
to join debate is because youwere always going to have to
talk with other people and beingable to be good at it will get
you so far.
Um, and whether it is in likethe classroom setting, giving a
(38:07):
presentation, or um at your job,at the interview, or um
presenting a proposal, all thesedifferent things like those are
like very like vague exampleslike you apply them in your own
life, but being a good speakerhas always helped me more than
any other skill that I havelearned from any other activity.
(38:29):
Communication, I feel like, isthe buzzword of the session, but
it's huge and so widelyapplicable that I have received
in my high school experience.
It is 100% because I couldconvey my message in a
sophisticated and persuasive waybecause of speech and debate
(38:51):
and being able to show yourselfin like the things that you care
about and like who you are in aconversational tone, even if it
is just a conversation, notjust publicly speaking to other
people.
You being confident in thewords that you were saying is so
, so, so important.
(39:11):
We learn this in debate rounds,where sometimes we can be a
little bit maybe clueless abouta topic, or you hit a response
that you don't necessarily, orhit a topic or a point that we
don't necessarily know that well.
But sometimes we know theconfidence 100, even if your
judge um doesn't entirely knowthe issue either.
(39:33):
If you were selling somethingconfidently, they're more likely
to believe it, and the same isoutside the world.
So being able to speak pretty,it assists in so many different
ways.
A smell is the confidence thatcomes from public speaking.
So that was another answer.
I feel like it was so manydifferent words and what you
(40:04):
were saying will get so manymore people on board in the
future when you need to convincepeople to do something, or when
you're just trying to sellyourself, like for college, for
scholarship, for um, aninternship and any kind of
opportunity or fellowship for um, any kind of schooling, jobs,
all these things that's.
People will like hear thethings you're saying, but it
(40:25):
really depends on how you'resaying thank you so much to
brianna for joining us here atcamp one clap.
Lyle Wiley (40:32):
It was an absolute joy to chat with and learn from
her.
What's new at camp tomorrow?
Well, izzy garcia is back andhe'll be sharing episode one of
izzy's activists guide to theclapocalypse.
You're not going to want tomiss that.
Remember social mediachallenges are live for every
day of camp this August, so getinvolved and we'll see you
tomorrow, campers.
Oh, and if you want to avoidzombies, just go to their least
(40:55):
favorite room.
You know the living room ForCamp One Clap.
This is Camp Director Wileysigning off.
Hey campers, it's another lovely day here at the
Clapocalypse Camp One.
Clap Two on the One Clap Speechand Debate podcast is back and
today we'll have a visit fromSouth Dakota superstar and NSDA
student of the year finalist,brianna Woolman.
I'm your camp director and hostof the One Clap Speech and
Debate podcast, lyle Wiley.
I hope everyone is ready toface any horrors that might
(00:30):
stand in their way and sharetheir voices with confidence and
joy this season.
Quick reminder check the OneClap socials for today's social
media challenge.
It's been a lot of fun to seefolks out there engaging and I
hope you keep it up.
Let's learn a little bit moreabout our guest on today's show,
(00:53):
who's back for Camp One Clap.
After being a counselor on thepodcast last year, brianna
Wollman is a speech and debatepowerhouse acting as a triple
threat in the events OriginalOratory, domestic Extemporaneous
Speaking and Lincoln-DouglasDebate.
Brianna competed on the SouthDakota circuit for Aberdeen
Central High School.
She's a two-time originaloratory state champion, as well
as the Lincoln-Douglas statechamp this year.
Aside from being her school'sfirst four-year qualifier at
(01:15):
nationals and ranking fifthnationally in NSDA points, she
was a student of the yearfinalist this season.
This fall, brianna will be afreshman at the University of
Minnesota Twin Cities, studyingpolitical science, with
aspirations to serve on CapitolHill one day.
All right, well, we better jumpright into my interview with
speech and debate superstarBrianna Woolman.
(01:36):
So welcome back to Camp OneClap, brianna Woolman.
It's so great to have you backon the podcast after another
dominant year in speech anddebate for you.
Breanna Wollman (01:46):
Well, thank you for having me.
I'm really excited to be back.
Lyle Wiley (01:50):
Yeah, you've stumbled upon the Clapocalypse
this year here at.
Camp One, clap Two, but we'reso glad you're here, maybe you
can help us out.
I want to set the tone for ourtheme this year by maybe opening
up about fear a little bit.
What's your favorite scarystory?
Give me like a movie, book,spoken story okay.
Breanna Wollman (02:11):
Um, I'm not gonna lie, I especially with
like scary movies.
I can't watch too many of thembecause when I was younger, like
I was really like unnecessarilyafraid of ghosts so and it like
sticks around sometimes too.
But, um, the best like scarymovie I've ever watched, just
because it made me think a lot,was probably like the original
(02:33):
Conjuring movie.
Um, I think like the wholeseries is good, but like the
film quality too.
It's I'm not like a huge likefilm nerd, but like the quality
of that movie and then just likethe actual storyline that was
derived from it's just, it'sjust like a really crazy movie.
It just makes you think a lotabout the existence of the
supernatural.
(02:54):
So it's not like necessarily myfavorite because it's like oh,
it's fun to watch, but it's.
There's just a lot behind itthat I appreciate about the
movie, even if it probably gaveme nightmares the first time I
watched it yeah, yeah, that's a.
Lyle Wiley (03:09):
That's a spooky one yeah, one of the things I do
appreciate about the horrorgenre is that you get to explore
spiritual stuff and religiousstuff and a lot of like
interesting themes.
It's kind of hard to explore inother genres.
But yeah, you have to do it atthe expense of, like, uh, stuff
that's scary and extremenightmare fuel.
So maybe I don't know- yeahit's a good one.
(03:32):
so, speaking of the apocalypse,um, if there was like an actual
apocalypse, like a we're likewandering around in a
post-apocalyptic wasteland, um,like something out of a
dystopian novel On a scale ofone to 10, how likely are you to
survive?
Breanna Wollman (03:47):
I really wish I could say that this number is
higher, but it's probably not.
I used to love the show theWalking Dead, but if there's
anything that would be told meis that I genuinely would not
have what it takes to survive.
I'm sure that being in thatcircumstance it hardens you and
because you have to like changewhat it means to live and like
(04:10):
the things you have to sacrificeis whatever, but I like the
thing, the sacrifices you haveto make.
They're a lot and I just I havean extremely weak gut, like the
percent of zombies I thinkwould probably take me out.
So I'm going to go a solidthree or four.
(04:31):
I don't have much faith inmyself, but I know I'm hopefully
never in that situation where Ihave to survive an apocalypse.
Lyle Wiley (04:40):
So yeah, no kidding, Right Like, yeah, I don't.
I don't think that I would bethe most useful uh, do you have,
do you have?
Any like skills that you'dbring to the table, like any you
know?
Breanna Wollman (04:53):
uh, I don't know skills that would be useful
well, um, if there's anythingthe walking dead told showed me,
is that communication, even ina post-apocalyptic world, is
really important when you'redealing with, like other groups
that you come in, um face toface with.
So I think I would be able tolike um communicate.
(05:15):
You know my speech and debateskills, but, uh, that's about it
.
Um, not much for, not much of ahunter.
Um, I probably would have areally hard time at first, like
doing what it takes to survivein terms of killing like zombies
or something Apocalyptic world.
But yeah, I don't know, I cancommunicate, that's about it.
Lyle Wiley (05:40):
Yeah, yeah, well, hey, listen, they're going to
need communicators, so I thinkthat's a valid skill.
But yeah, no, I think I willfind probably interviewing,
speech and debate folks thatmany of us may not feel
comfortable with our skill levelin the apocalypse.
But we'll find out, maybe we'llfind some people.
(06:01):
So, oh my gosh, what anincredible year for you.
It's your senior year this year, right, brianna?
And so you went out on thenational stage as a finalist for
the NSDA student of the year.
Like, wow, what an honor.
Tell us about that experienceat Nats.
What was that like?
How'd you find out about your,you know, being announced as a
(06:21):
finalist?
Like, what was that like?
Breanna Wollman (06:26):
Oh, well, well, thank you first of all, but, uh
, the experience was great.
I think that the people thatwork for the nsda the primary
person that I worked with hername was, uh, annie, and she is
like just incredible at her job.
Like I told her that to herface, it's um sometimes getting
people that are like naturallycomforting, especially in
positions where they're workingwith, especially like terrified
(06:50):
and nervous people like all thestudent of the year finalists
were walking into.
That interview is reallyimportant and Annie, she, she
just did a fantastic job but umit it was um a really cool
experience and it kind of set upthe tone for the rest of the
week and the nerves a little bit.
Lyle Wiley (07:10):
On.
Breanna Wollman (07:10):
Sunday before all competition, like when
people were checking into theexpo.
So we did our interviews.
They also did some filming,things like making the hype
video for the student of theyear finalists, the hype video
for the student of the yearfinalist and, um, unfortunately
I am not immune to nsdapropaganda.
(07:30):
Get me a good hype video.
I will be a million times moreexcited to be there than I
originally was.
Um, hype videos, just they.
They have that effect on me.
Um, but that was seeing yourface on like a screen and play
on a video played in front of somany people.
It's, it's just insane.
(07:51):
But also meeting the otherfinalists was really cool.
Um, the person who won studentof the year um, medium.
He is from south dakota like wehad two finalists this year
from south dakota.
He is incredibly and it wasjust really cool being able to
watch him tell so much hate intheir hearts for Des Moines,
(08:12):
iowa, but coming from theMidwest.
That drive was extremely short.
(08:33):
We drove to Louisville, wedrove to Phoenix.
This drive we did it in half ofa day, so that was awesome and
they had so many great foodoptions.
We ate Korean barbecue I.
They had so many great foodoptions, like we ate Korean
barbecue, I door dashed Indianfood we ate at, like this
Chinese place or I think it wasThai actually, but it it was
(08:53):
fantastic Like there was so much.
Like I understand, like thecritiques about Iowa not having
as much culture as other places,I think in terms of
affordability, which issomething a lot of school or the
nsda should consider, whenchoosing a national site was
really like it's.
It was a huge pro.
(09:14):
That can't be ignored.
Inclusion that's.
Lyle Wiley (09:17):
That's was great yeah, I was similarly like
disenchanted with the idea ofgoing to des moines, iowa for
two years in a row, but alsolikewise pretty impressed with
the experience.
Like I thought, they did apretty nice job, and Des Moines
was was surprisingly prettypretty great place to hang out
(09:37):
with a bunch of amazing students.
Breanna Wollman (09:40):
And driving in Des Moines is so easy too.
Like I, I would have feltcomfortable driving the van.
I'm not going to lie.
Lyle Wiley (09:47):
That's a big deal, though right For us as less
urban folks like, going to aplace like Des Moines was way
less intimidating.
Yeah, so I'm glad you had agreat Nats experience and it was
just the cap of another reallygreat season for you.
What were some of yourhighlights and some of the
(10:08):
memories that you're going totreasure from your entire high
school speech and debateexperience?
Breanna Wollman (10:14):
So I think that something that is.
It's really unfortunate thatcompetitors like lose sight of a
lot and I've definitely alsolost sight of this so many times
in so many differenttournaments this year and like
before this year but we get sofocused on like feeling the
pressure to do well, likeespecially, um, like the feeling
(10:35):
I feel like it's kind ofinevitable, like disappointing
like your, your younger peers asan upperclassman or your
coaches, and you just like losesight of what's important in
this activity and it's havingfun.
Um, in the tournaments.
Before I could remember like Ihave like incredible issues with
(10:57):
stress and that's one of thethings that defined this year,
especially the beginning halffor me, unfortunately, because I
let it control the way I felttoo much, but I've had like
really bad stress, ulcers fromspeech and debate, and that's
not something I'm proud ofadmitting.
But going through this year Iwas able to like give my get a
(11:20):
tiny bit better at gettingmyself breaks when necessary.
So I know you mentioned thehighlights, but we're getting to
a happy point.
I promise is that thehighlights for me this year were
the tournaments that I was ableto remember that I do this
activity because I like it andnot because it makes me
incredibly stressed out, andeven if I don't perform the way
(11:43):
I want to, that I'm notdisappointing people around me
and it seems like it's it's amental highlight.
But, um, those are just asimportant than like accolades
and stuff because at the end ofthe day, like your senior year,
there's so much pressure, likeinternally and externally on a
high note, to be a student that,um, coaches and competitors and
(12:08):
like an entire state uh, willremember for years to come.
But at the end of the day,sometimes you, you just have to
do all you can do in an activity, try your best, um, be kind to
other people, and if that willeven impact, then then so be it.
That's awesome.
But sometimes I, especially thisyear, got lost and the reason I
(12:33):
do this activity and refindingthat was probably a huge
highlight.
It's not a specific event, itwas something that happened over
a long period of time withshort growth, but.
But I feel that going intocollege this year I can remember
to pull that in.
But I also just had so much funwith my friends at tournaments.
(12:54):
This year I was able toconvince one of my best friends,
who never did speech and debatein her entire life to come and
do oratory for our team.
So she came and traveled withus.
Literally most of my closestfriends were there at
tournaments and it was soawesome going from around that I
feel like I stuttered too muchwhen I was giving my exam speech
(13:16):
or phrased my question wrong,reciting it and things like that
.
And just go back and see theirfaces and laugh and remember the
reason why I'm there forconnection that's uh, that's
like really mature and, um,awesome stuff to share with us.
Lyle Wiley (13:35):
That is like hard to learn, like really hard to
learn.
I think it's, I think our.
I mean I don't want to get toodeep here, but the there's some
cultural issues with us sort ofseeing worth in people based on
what they produce instead of whothey are.
Breanna Wollman (13:51):
And I think in our activity, more than any
activity, we need to keep tryingto communicate that to people,
that their worth is not based onhow well they do do, especially
in an activity in comparison tolike a lot of athletics, where
it's a whole team, it's likepeople pitted against another or
quote-unquote pitted againstanother, like individual person,
(14:14):
and it's.
It is really hard balancingthat because especially um and
it was the case for me and, I'massuming, a lot of other
competitors, but you don'trealize that until you genuinely
like hit the bottom, feelinglike extremely exhausted and
stressed out and like notenjoying um, what you used to
(14:37):
love so much, because you madeit something way bigger and
angrier than it was.
Like debate.
Debate is serious, it can I.
I love this activity.
Lyle Wiley (14:48):
It was like the devotion of my high school
experience, but at the end ofthe day it is just an activity
and remembering that is crucialyeah, I mean we're all pretty
competitive, um, but I think, ifyou let that overtake what it
is like, which is an activitythat's meant to to help students
(15:10):
give a give the give anopportunity to say what they
care about and and talk aboutthings that are important and
use their voice.
It's like if the competitionbecomes front and center, I
think things can get pretty hardfor people, especially seniors.
I think you really are puttinga.
This is good for coaches tounderstand, like it's something
I've learned over coaching that,like the senior year is a tough
(15:32):
year for people withexpectations put on them after
they've had success.
Um and there.
So they have leadershipexpectations, they have
performance expectations.
Um, you kind of start to assume, as a coach, that certain
competitors are going to be ableto produce certain results I
think, it's pretty dangerousyeah, it really is.
Breanna Wollman (15:50):
Those expectations can like take the
spark out of a competitor soquickly because, um, maybe their
goals for a season change andif those goals aren't reflective
of, like exactly like you said,success they've had in the past
, it can be really challengingfor someone to actually go after
what they want instead of theexpectations like put upon them,
(16:12):
not not only by coaches.
Sometimes it's like I mentionedearlier it's it's younger
classmates and peers that canlook at a competitor and look up
to them because of theirsuccess in an event and it can
just like don't know, it's notnecessarily like disorienting,
but it's just kind of it'sdefinitely interesting.
(16:33):
But we all need to like affordother individuals some grace,
like some space to make thisactivity what they want to.
Lyle Wiley (16:44):
Absolutely.
Did you have a pretty likestressful year in general too,
as a senior?
I mean, did you take somecollege level courses and make
some big decisions about yourfuture and all that kind of?
Breanna Wollman (16:54):
stuff I am.
Neither of my parents went tocollege, neither of them went to
high school, for that matter.
So managing the collegeenvironment this year on top of
senior debate season andeverything else I was working on
at school, like from communityservice projects to being the
(17:14):
president of Future BusinessLeaders of America at my school,
it was so, so, so much and asmuch as I have like so many
fantastic memories, like on topof the really difficult things I
did this year with courseworkand extracurriculars and stuff,
um, I, as much as I sometimesthink about I, want to redo this
(17:36):
year.
I don't.
I had an amazing setup withsupport system from my coaches
and, like I mentioned, myfriends and me still have my
best high school memories thisyear.
But it's so much to go throughemotionally and I said it's over
, but at the same time, I'mexcited to move on and work on
(18:01):
something else and I'mexperiencing something that's.
Lyle Wiley (18:04):
That's exciting, did you?
Do you think?
I mean, a lot of this is, I'msure, stuff that you've learned
about yourself for the in theactivity this year, but is there
is there anything else likeunique that you learned about
the activity or yourself thisseason?
Breanna Wollman (18:17):
This just I.
It's so crazy.
As soon as you start likeprioritizing having fun, that um
everything you do, like youstart competing better.
And that's not necessarilyanything like crazy or entirely
unique, like I feel, like yousay it out loud and it's common
(18:38):
sense, but um, for me in pastyears it's been like if I'm not
100% serious, like focused ongetting this done, I'm gonna
compete poorly.
And then this year when I thetournaments that I decided I was
going to go in and have funwere the ones I competed the
best in, like, oh my gosh, inJanuary this year I was, um, we
(19:02):
had a competition that was likean hour away from my town, so we
didn't stay the night there.
We drove there, came back onFriday night and then Saturday
night drove there again after weall slept in our homes and my
car car it ran out of gas on thedrive to the school in the
morning, um, so I made ourentire bus like an hour late to
(19:25):
this tournament.
My coach had to come because myparents were out of town.
My coach had to come get gas,fill up my car.
Um, help me while I sat outsidein the frigid january Dakota
colds at 530 in the morning itwas absolutely terrible and by
the time my car had gotten gasgot off the side of the road.
I was like I don't want to goto this tournament.
(19:48):
I was so tired because I didn'tgo to bed until like 1am the
night before, so I was runningoff of like three and a half
hours of sleep.
It was terrible, but I was sosleep deprived and I was like,
if this tournament goes bad, Idon't even care, I'm just gonna
have to try to have fun.
Because I'm feeling miserableright now.
And I ended up winning thewhole tournament in LD that day,
(20:12):
somehow by the grace of Celsiusafter Celsius, and that day
felt so weird because I can justremember in the morning like
wishing that my coach would dropme from LD and I could just go
home and sleep after this wholething happened.
But he didn't do that.
And I'm sure if I would haveasked him he would have, but I
(20:35):
was not about to do that as asenior with only so many LD
tournaments left.
Um, but it's.
It's perspective is huge, aswhat that story uh shares.
But um, yeah, that wasdefinitely something.
That's.
That goes to show.
The thing I learned this seasonis that having fun should
(20:55):
probably be your biggestpriority and can help you,
especially with success.
State was another thing whereperspective was really important
because I an extent on friday I?
I crash and burned in all of myrounds.
I?
Um.
The only tournament I did notmake finals, and except in this
(21:17):
year, was state, because it wasa scheduling issue where um, we,
the South Dakota activitiesassociation, has a very cut and
dry on the schedule you couldhave um, depending on the
entries that you have in anevent.
So one of my judges was late inmy oratory round.
Um, though I was first speaker,got out there as soon as I can.
(21:40):
I lost 12 minutes of extempprep time that the schedule
could not be changed to get itback, and that first round I
gave a bad speech because thelast loss of time, like it,
freaked me out.
It affected all of my otherextemp rounds freaked me out.
It affected all of my otherstem rounds and I I did.
(22:01):
I went back in my hotel room assoon as breaks came out and I
cried so hard because oratorythis year as much as I love
oratory, it was not my strongsuit.
Um, the least expected thingthat I that came out of this
tournament was winning oratory,because it had not been the year
I'd hoped.
In fact, the expectation thisyear was I really wanted to NLD
(22:22):
and Xtemp seemed what was mostrealistic for that.
So it was just another exampleof getting out of your head and
remembering the real reasonyou're there, things like that.
Because, again, as I mentionedearlier, the tournaments that I
remembered what was important tome using my voice, having fun,
(22:44):
communicating with others it wasthose are the tournaments I did
best in.
And I know I've said that somany times, but it's something
that it took me so long torealize, and if there's anything
I can afford to othercompetitors this year, even
especially if they're going intotheir senior year, is that you
will do better for yourselfmentally, physically, in school
(23:05):
and competition when youremember that you were a human
being, you were allowed to makemistakes first and go in this
activity grateful that you canbe there.
Lyle Wiley (23:15):
that's yeah I love that.
That's so important.
Absolutely agree, and yeah,like again, just congratulations
on an amazing year.
I want to change things up fora second and have a ghostly
spooky interlude.
Okay, you mentioned earlierthat when you were younger you
were, you were afraid of ghosts,uh, so maybe you maybe I will
(23:39):
see if you've changed your views.
Do you believe in ghosts and inthe paranormal like why?
Or?
Breanna Wollman (23:44):
why, not um, so this kind of ties back with the
conjuring movie too, because amovie like that, based on true
events, even if it's not like acomplete, 100 accurate
reflection of what happened itwas one of those things where,
as I like I mentioned inelementary school, I was
terrified it's not like acomplete, 100% accurate
reflection of what happened.
(24:05):
It was one of those thingswhere, as I mentioned in
elementary school, I wasterrified of ghosts.
That fear kind of dimmed downuntil I watched the Conjuring
movie and then I was like, oh mygod, maybe the ghosts are real.
So right now I'd probably sayI'm leaning more to.
The ghosts are real in theparanormal it's.
Conversations like this aredifficult and not so not
difficult at the same time.
(24:25):
It really depends on how it'sframed.
But it is like the existence ofexactly like you said, with
like faith and religion.
It ties into it sointerestingly, like faith and
religion, it ties into it sointerestingly.
And, um, I'm not necessarilylike someone who like it's it's
(24:45):
I'm just having word soup rightnow um, but I believe in ghosts.
It's honestly would not havethe time to explain like every
instance or like why I thinkghosts are real, but it's just
something that I like to feel Idon't know that's.
Lyle Wiley (25:01):
That is legit.
It's a very difficult thing totry to.
Breanna Wollman (25:03):
It's very personal and I don't know
complicated like no reason atall, because, well, there is a
reason, by ghosts, like a lot oftimes they're framed as like
halloween things and it's likeanimated things.
Then you're like, oh my God,but these could be real and I
don't know.
Lyle Wiley (25:24):
All right.
Well, let's shift away from theghosts for now.
Yeah, that's a good choice, Ithink, moving to like.
I want to talk about likeactivism and speech and debate
as a tool for leading to change.
So how does speech and debate,like, create opportunities for
leading to change?
So how does speech and debatecreate opportunities for
students to become agents ofchange in their local spaces and
then in the larger, morenational space?
Breanna Wollman (25:46):
I think this question ties really great back
into being a student of the yearfinalist, because that is the
entire idea, like honoringstudents that took the skills
that they learned from speechand debate and generated change
in their community.
I think with the skills thatspeech and debate teaches
students, there comes a hugeresponsibility to not let those
(26:10):
skills go to waste.
Navigating how you put that touse in your life is going to be
different for everybody.
Negligating how you put that touse in your life is going to be
different for everybody.
But I think if there is anissue that you are passionate
about and you have time, noteven resources you can develop
and find resources later, butfirst the time you can find
(26:30):
other like-minded issues thatcare about that issue.
Aside from speech and debate, myhigh school experience was
defined by this project, orprimarily defined by this
project.
I started with some of myfriends called Project Red where
, like the entirety of my juniorand senior year, we worked on
trying to eliminate periodpoverty on the local state and
(26:55):
in my school, like those levels,and it was entirely because of
speech and debate, the speakingskills, that we gained the
writing skills, like we assistedin writing the first ever bill
in the South Dakota legislaturethat would have ended the pink
tax and dealing with those kindsof things, especially again
when you have the time.
(27:15):
It's so important becausespeech and debate made you a
communicator for a reason, andsure it's great being able to
express in a debate roundsomething, but if you are not
taking those speaking skills andyour ability to persuade others
and applying them in other ways, then I think you're cutting
(27:39):
yourself short as a competitoras well, because the way you
become a well-roundedcommunicator is being able to
talk and obviously talk, but tobe able to communicate not only
in a debate round, but also howto have hard conversations
outside of rounds where your winloss is not defined by a ballot
(28:02):
but instead how you like anopportunity to advance on an
issue.
That sounds super complicatedbecause I didn't explain it the
most beautifully, especiallywith the debate thing.
But there were multiple timeswith the project where something
(28:22):
felt like a loss, but in thelong term it was definitely a
win, and debate cuts things veryblack and white with what is a
win and what is a loss in termsof rankings, but dealing with
things that are like perceivedlosses the ability to persevere,
especially in that realm.
It just makes you a betterrounded person and like someone
(28:48):
who can empathize with otherpeople and you don't think that
things like that tie intocompetition, but it 110 does,
because being genuine and um,it's not something, it is some.
You can very clearly tell whensomeone cares.
I believe we're talking aboutplatform events a little bit
later, but being able to sharestories like that about how you
(29:10):
cared about an issue and you'vetried to tackle an issue in
whatever way you could, I thinkit really can sell a story even
more, because you can make otherpeople care about an issue
where you can then use yourplatform speech and debate to
advocate for.
So it's very like felt kind ofround in my explanation, but in
(29:31):
the end you have aresponsibility, um being a
communicator, to do something um, no matter like how small it is
, um, and it doesn't always haveto be like volunteering in the
way that we think it is.
It's like a Salvation Army, forexample, but helping younger
classmates on your team or inyour school, assisting the
(29:56):
person that doesn't feel likethey have a community in your
school or other areas like thethird places you know, like out
in public or maybe, if you'rereligious at a church, it's
again like being a well-roundedperson outside of the round
makes you a better competitor aswell.
That that was also just a lotof talking, but I think I I hit
(30:19):
all the um the boxes on what Iwanted to get out of that with
that answer.
Lyle Wiley (30:25):
So just like some great stuff in there, but just a
follow up question or thoughtDo you experience with your
peers and other students thatyou know that are involved in
speech debate or, just like highschool age students, sort of a
fatalistic kind of mentalityabout the their impact on what's
happening in the world?
(30:46):
Um, like, uh, uh, a fear thatthat that they can't impact
change.
Breanna Wollman (30:53):
Yeah, um, and that's it's definitely.
What is a roadblock for mostpeople is because, especially
with larger issues that impact alot of individuals, you don't
think there's anything that youcan do.
But, like I, I assure you thatisn't true.
Um, you don't have to start anentire project or dedicate like
(31:13):
every extra hour.
You have to something to makean impact.
Um, and that definitely is whatcreates barriers for change
being generated on so manydifferent issues.
But it starts even as simple ifyou do have like an hour or two
um aiding your time where youcan see it needed in your
community.
Um, a lot of people this isthis is phasing a little bit
(31:38):
away but especially, I watched alot of like college admission
videos this year and a lot ofthe advice people were like
talking about is, if you have apassion project, like you're
guaranteed to get into a collegeand a lot of people in the
comments being like, oh my gosh.
I never started like a wholenon-profit that created like a
(31:58):
cure to a terrible disease, likeI'm not gonna get anything like
, all I have is, um, normalvolunteer hours.
And that seems so ridiculous tome because, first of all, the
people that framed collegeadmissions like that, that's not
what they should have done.
That's not like.
Starting a non-profit is notsomething that's accessible to
everybody.
Different people have differentresources in different time,
(32:21):
whatever but you still likechanged something.
Even if you like didn't developsomething from the scratch, you
can still aid into somethingthat already exists.
Like I mentioned earlier,salvation armies or something
that is national, and every caseI've seen require assistance
(32:42):
and just helping their missiongo forward.
You're still creating a lot ofchange, even if it's not
something that you cannecessarily like, feel feel
isn't necessarily the right word, but it's.
That ripple effect still existsbecause you took the time out
of your day to help like smallthings can have a big impact in
(33:06):
the long term yeah, yeah, I andI do.
Lyle Wiley (33:10):
I think that, even if students want to approach
advocacy in a larger way,there's opportunity for that in
ways that I don't know, thatthat a lot of students know
exist.
And yeah, I mean, I think yourstory and what you've done is a
pretty good example of that,like starting at a local level
and and like thinking about itat a larger level.
(33:30):
I mean, that's, it's kind ofhow things operate in the adult
world as well.
Breanna Wollman (33:36):
So so yeah.
Lyle Wiley (33:39):
I mean, this is like important to me, because I even
see this with fellow educatorsand fellow adults, just like
this sort of you know like well,we can't.
Breanna Wollman (33:47):
We can't do anything about how things are,
like they just are the way thatthey are and we just need to
like passively, kind of likedeal, and yeah, I think that's a
very dangerous way to slideinto oblivion into oblivion and
(34:07):
um with with the idea of likeit's not necessarily, it's not
learned helplessness at all,that's the wrong phrase for it,
but the like, the idea ofperceived helplessness.
It's really damaging.
Um, because people get so stuckwhen they think that they
aren't create, they don't havethe capacity to create any
change, no matter how big orsmall that change is.
Lyle Wiley (34:26):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
What's next for you?
What's next for Brianna?
What are you going to do?
Breanna Wollman (34:34):
Well, I will be at the University of Minnesota
Twin Cities.
So, right in Minneapolis, goGophers and I'll be studying
political science.
I'm thinking a double major incommunications as well.
But if there's anything thatdebate showed me these past four
years is that politics issomething that I can talk
(34:56):
anyone's ear off and aconversation that sometimes
right now, is extremelydifficult to have.
But that doesn't mean it's anyless important, and especially
in this political climate, likethere is so much need for people
educated in government to getinto government.
So, with campaigns, all thingslike that, in communication,
(35:19):
it's, if you're in speech anddebate, you know how important
communication is when.
That's why I thought it waslike a hand-in-hand thing.
Um, I'm so excited for my nextfour years there in the twin
cities.
I, coming from a town with like30 000 people, which it's it's
decently sized, is going to be asignificant change where my new
(35:41):
school has its very own zipcode.
Opportunities and getting outof my comfort zone is something
that was really important to me,um, when choosing where to go
and what is next for me.
So I'm hoping I can work onsome internships, um, in dc and
in the minneapolis area, at thecapitol in st Paul.
(36:02):
Also, right now I am possiblyworking on getting a coaching
job, so that's cool.
It's difficult to navigate withmanaging like, as I mentioned
earlier, being a first-genstudent the first year at a
college.
Managing like what I canrealistically commit myself to
(36:23):
because I don't want tooverburden myself like I have in
the past.
But short term, um, u of M, Iam about 99% sure, law schools
after that, but we're stillworking out the details.
I'm trying to, um, makedecisions as they come and bring
(36:43):
to live in the moment here too.
Lyle Wiley (36:46):
Oh yeah, absolutely I mean that sounds like a great
plan, but if it changes, itchanges and that's okay.
Well, that's exciting.
Congratulations and good luckto you in the next steps.
Thank, you yeah of course I wasthinking it'd be fun to close
out interviews by talking aboutthe visceral fear of speech and
(37:08):
debate.
For like many people,especially maybe non speech and
debate folks, Just in general,the general public has got this
terrifying like horrible feelingabout public speaking.
Breanna Wollman (37:20):
So why is?
Lyle Wiley (37:22):
speech and debate worth the terror, the fear.
Breanna Wollman (37:25):
Because, as I've touched on a lot of the
same things this interview,because they're true in so many
ways and it's learning how to bean advocate for things you care
about, but also because beingsomeone who can have a
conversation with another humanbeing or addressing a group of
(37:45):
people will assist you in likeevery single aspect of your life
.
It's something that was alwayssold to us like especially why
to join debate is because youwere always going to have to
talk with other people and beingable to be good at it will get
you so far.
Um, and whether it is in likethe classroom setting, giving a
(38:07):
presentation, or um at your job,at the interview, or um
presenting a proposal, all thesedifferent things like those are
like very like vague exampleslike you apply them in your own
life, but being a good speakerhas always helped me more than
any other skill that I havelearned from any other activity.
(38:29):
Communication, I feel like, isthe buzzword of the session, but
it's huge and so widelyapplicable that I have received
in my high school experience.
It is 100% because I couldconvey my message in a
sophisticated and persuasive waybecause of speech and debate
(38:51):
and being able to show yourselfin like the things that you care
about and like who you are in aconversational tone, even if it
is just a conversation, notjust publicly speaking to other
people.
You being confident in thewords that you were saying is so
, so, so important.
(39:11):
We learn this in debate rounds,where sometimes we can be a
little bit maybe clueless abouta topic, or you hit a response
that you don't necessarily, orhit a topic or a point that we
don't necessarily know that well.
But sometimes we know theconfidence 100, even if your
judge um doesn't entirely knowthe issue either.
(39:33):
If you were selling somethingconfidently, they're more likely
to believe it, and the same isoutside the world.
So being able to speak pretty,it assists in so many different
ways.
A smell is the confidence thatcomes from public speaking.
So that was another answer.
I feel like it was so manydifferent words and what you
(40:04):
were saying will get so manymore people on board in the
future when you need to convincepeople to do something, or when
you're just trying to sellyourself, like for college, for
scholarship, for um, aninternship and any kind of
opportunity or fellowship for um, any kind of schooling, jobs,
all these things that's.
People will like hear thethings you're saying, but it
(40:25):
really depends on how you'resaying thank you so much to
brianna for joining us here atcamp one clap.
Lyle Wiley (40:32):
It was an absolute joy to chat with and learn from
her.
What's new at camp tomorrow?
Well, izzy garcia is back andhe'll be sharing episode one of
izzy's activists guide to theclapocalypse.
You're not going to want tomiss that.
Remember social mediachallenges are live for every
day of camp this August, so getinvolved and we'll see you
tomorrow, campers.
Oh, and if you want to avoidzombies, just go to their least
(40:55):
favorite room.
You know the living room ForCamp One Clap.
This is Camp Director Wileysigning off.
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