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Relationships: Narcissistic Spouses, Friends, Co-workers, and Relatives: What keeps intelligent, capable people trapped in relationships with narcissists? Dana Diaz discovered the answer through her painful journey—a 25-year marriage to a man whose charm masked a pattern of manipulation, gaslighting, and ultimately, death threats.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome to One Good Thing Media, your official
podcast review channel.
We search the vast digitallandscape on a daily basis to
discover the best shows thatpodcasters have to offer.
Are you ready to discover newfavorites to add to your
playbook?
Stay tuned and listen to host.
Gerald.
Edition of One Good Thing Media.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Over the past 18 months, we have conducted
several compelling interviewsthat aired at a time when our
podcast was much smaller than itis today.
Because we don't want ourlisteners to miss these
fascinating conversations and toensure that they aren't
one-and-done airings, we'veremastered these interviews as
(01:18):
standalone episodes, which weare dropping twice a month.
This means that every otherepisode will be an interview for
the foreseeable future.
This week we are featuring aninterview with Dana Diaz, who
suffered a 25-year marriage to anarcissist that originally
aired in January 2024.
(01:40):
Today, dana is free, hasremarried, written three books,
achieved national attention forher work with displaced and
sometimes unhoused women, andwho is now freely sharing her
insights and knowledge about howto spot and avoid anyone with a
(02:00):
narcissistic personality and,if you're already involved, how
to break ties with that person.
Dana has an active social mediapresence as well as a website
that you should check out.
Links to all of her resourcesare included in the show notes
for this episode.
Fyi, we've already aired twoepisodes that feature amazing
(02:27):
interviews that we haveconducted over the past several
months.
If compelling interviews areyour jam, check out episode six
of our podcast, where we air aremastered version of our
conversation with Annie Temple,an erotic entrepreneur who
openly discusses her many rolesin the sex industry, and her
(02:49):
book Annie Temple's BusinessBible, which focuses on teaching
other erotic entrepreneurs howto stay safe, identify their
business brand and how to managetheir money.
And if you're interested inlearning about what it's like to
belong to a cult, or, morespecifically, the Institute of
(03:11):
Basic Life Principles, the samereligious organization that the
Duggar family espoused in the 19Kids and Counting reality TV
show, check out episode 8, whichfeatures our interview with
Amanda Briggs, who talks aboutwhat it was like growing up in
the IBLP and the repression shefaced as a female child and
(03:36):
young adult.
We're going to start ourinterview in just a moment.
Just a moment.
Did you know that you cansupport us by supporting who
Gives a Crap?
A company that really does givea crap?
We've been a loyal customer ofWGAC for five years.
(04:01):
They produce the greenesttoilet paper and paper towels on
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Fyi, I recommend the bambootoilet paper.
It's three-ply soft and,because bamboo is a grass,
(04:23):
you're helping to preserve ourforests.
Please give a crap by clickingon the sponsor's link in our
show notes and go even greener,starting today.
We have a very special guesttoday for our interview Dana S
Diaz.
Dana is a relationship expertwho once was married to, and
(04:45):
endured, a full-blown narcissist.
Hi, dana, how you doing?
Speaker 3 (04:52):
I'm doing well.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
My pleasure.
I have been looking forward tothis interview.
I know you've got some answersfor our listeners and, to tell
you the truth, answers for metoo.
You've met and have beeninvolved with quite a few people
in your life who werenarcissists, starting as a child
, a time in your life when youhad no control over who you were
(05:17):
living with.
Please tell our listeners alittle bit about your background
, who you are and why you're sointerested in this particular
subject.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Absolutely yes, I am.
I am a normal person likeeverybody else.
I'm a wife, I'm a mother.
I am now a cat mom because myson is 20 and bought his own
home, you know, just trying tomake it in this world like
everybody else.
I just have, unfortunately, hadlifelong experience with abuse,
(05:47):
primarily at the hands ofnarcissists, and so I'm using
that knowledge and thatexperience now, you know, to try
to make good of it and tohopefully allow other people to
learn from my mistakes and fromthe things that I learned along
the way, because certainly Ithink as victims, we think
(06:09):
things will never change andthat you know our circumstances
are so dire and how do we getstuck in them.
But sometimes you just have tolook at it from the outside, and
now that I am on the outside ofit, you know I can certainly
offer that perspective to thosethat are still in it.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
The term narcissist is bandied about so much these
days that I think it has becomea catch-all term for people that
behave badly.
For our purposes, can youplease define the term
narcissist?
I know you have a more accuratedescription.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's very complex, so I'm justgoing to keep it very simple
that a narcissist is somebodywho has to feel much more
important than they probablyreally are.
And again, that's a very, verybasic definition, because
there's various types ofnarcissists.
And now they say there's aspectrum, which I do agree with,
and I always say that Idescribe it as kind of like a
(07:12):
tumor, like you can have abenign tumor that's there, that
doesn't bother you, and theseare the narcissists that you see
on social media that are takingpictures of themselves all the
time and posting them, buthonestly, they really do look as
good as they think they do, soyou can't really hate them for
that.
But then on the other side, youhave those malignant tumors
(07:33):
that cause you problems.
They might even kill you, andthose are, unfortunately, the
narcissists that I have dealtwith in my life.
And these are the narcissiststhat comprise over 20% of our
prison population in the US andthey're very dangerous.
When you see domestic violenceor watch true crime shows like
48 Hours, these are, you know,more times than not, these are
(07:58):
the more extreme, thosemalignant narcissists.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
That's very interesting.
I haven't thought about it, atleast up until this point, quite
the way that you just describedit, and I absolutely had no
idea about the prison population.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah, it's all about control and power with them.
It makes them, it fulfillstheir ego.
They sort of exalt themselvesin being able to conquer others,
whether it's by committingtheir crimes or evading the law
or just even controlling andoverpowering another human being
.
It gives them that sense of,like I said, on a very basic
(08:40):
level, that sense of superiorityand importance that they don't
otherwise feel, Because reallyit stems from a deep-seated
insecurity.
They don't feel that level ofself-worth inside themselves, so
they seek it outwardly.
It's just that they do it invery dangerous ways and
obviously unhealthy ways.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I so agree, and sometimes you know when you're
around different couples and thehusband or the wife is
constantly belittling theirspouse, trying to send the
message of oh, you are so stupid.
One of the things that I know Iwant to learn from our
interview today, and I'm suremany of our listeners do as well
(09:25):
, and that is why is it thatsmart people, very smart people
oftentimes are in relationshipsthat are destructive and
negative and they put up with somuch they seem to even just put
on their blinders and actunaware of it.
(09:48):
How can you explain that?
It baffles me.
Obviously I wouldn't be asking.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Absolutely.
It's very complicated, I think,even just as individual beings
I mean, we all are raised adifferent way.
We all come from differentcircumstances, different
cultures.
You know there's so manyinfluences in how we think and
what you know, our moral compass.
But you hit on something reallyimportant and I know for myself
(10:19):
I made a very bad decision,obviously, in choosing the first
man that I married.
I made a very bad decision,obviously, in choosing the first
man that I married, whom Ispent 25 years way too long with
.
But it stemmed from exactly whatyou had said, because in my
childhood my mother married anabusive narcissist.
He was only abusive to mebecause I wasn't his biological
(10:40):
child, but the verbal abuse, theattacks almost every single day
and I'm talking from the time Iwas a little girl, four or five
years old.
He would tell me I shouldn'thave to pay for you to be
clothed and sheltered and fed.
You're not even my child.
And he did call me stupid and Iwas incompetent and he would
(11:03):
say nobody's ever gonna love you, you're not worth my time, I
mean.
And then the actions followed.
So, even though I knew betterand I was a tenacious little
thing, let me tell you I stoodup for myself because I knew
what he was doing was wrong andI could see the way other you
know friends of mine were beingtreated by their parents, that I
(11:25):
knew I was being mistreated,but see, my mother looked the
other way or my mother wouldexcuse or enable or just be very
tolerant of him.
Oh, that's just how he is, andmaybe if you didn't upset him so
the blame was always shiftedback to me that I was the
problem.
And when you hear that so often, even if you don't believe it,
(11:47):
at some point you do internalizeit, especially if you're a
child, and that carries with you, because most adults that are
in toxic romantic relationshipsas adults well, not even
romantic relationships, actually, I'll take that back.
You can have toxic friendshipsrelationships actually, I'll
take that back.
You can have toxic friendships.
You can have these, you knownarcissistic relationships at
(12:08):
work in your community and in somany aspects you tolerate it
because that's what you know,that's what you're familiar with
, because it happened in yourchildhood.
So oftentimes, more times thannot, I am finding that if you're
in a situation as an adult, youexperienced it as a child.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
So what you're saying , then, is no matter how smart
someone appears to be or howsuccessful they are, there isn't
necessarily a correlation withtheir internal esteem, correct,
Correct?
I'm curious whether or notnarcissists are attracted to you
(12:52):
or you're attracted to themonce you're wise to what they
are and what they can do.
How do you spot them before youget involved?
Because, let's face it, whenyou first meet them, they are so
charming.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Thank you for saying that, because that's the thing
I've said to so many people.
I think people think I marriedChucky and I'm like no, I mean I
saw the signs.
I mean talk about red flags.
They were waving right.
For I mean, literally the momentI met him he reminded my ex,
(13:33):
reminded me of my abusivestepfather.
So I mean I knew instinctivelyoh no, I know this type not
interested.
But you know, no, we are notattracted to.
You know men who run aroundwith butcher knives and
disheveled hair.
We don't think that's whatwe're getting into.
You know, even Ted Bundy, theserial killer, was handsome and
charming and women were drawn tohim and he went home every
night to the same woman and herlittle girl and the little girl
(13:56):
just absolutely adored him.
So these are people that theyare very selective about who
they prey upon.
Even in my circumstance inchildhood, I know that when my
mother and her husband had theirown child, eventually my
brother had a completelydifferent childhood experience
(14:17):
than I did, because he wastreated like any child would
want to be.
He was loved, encouraged,nurtured, supported.
It was just me, you know.
So I mean, they definitelytarget people, but things to
look out for, certainly what youhad said before.
If anybody demeans you, insultsyou, puts you down in any way,
(14:40):
I mean, obviously this isn't anice person, obviously if
they're going to do that to you.
But this is somebody who'sdefinitely trying to seek some
kind of like you said an outwardexpression or some kind of
superiority over you.
Because if they have todiminish you to feel better
(15:01):
about themselves, you probablydon't want to submit yourself to
any kind of relationship orfriendship like that the other
things to look out for.
If they're very arrogant oraloof, dismissive of your
achievements and we see this alot, especially in the workplace
or in friendships with jealousyJealousy is not an attractive
(15:23):
quality, but when somebody can'teven just say good job when you
have achieved something, it'sbecause they're jealous.
And when people are jealous,it's unfortunate that they will
try to take you down in some way.
Maybe they'll try to takecredit for your future
accomplice or try to again putyou in a situation where others
(15:44):
might think less of you ordiminish your success in some
way.
They're just trying to put youdown.
There's enough room in thisworld for everybody to achieve
whatever it is they're lookingfor, whether personally,
professionally or otherwise.
There is no need for that.
We can all rise to the top ofthe mountain.
We can all climb there.
(16:05):
There's no need to kick peopledown.
And those are the people youwant to look out for, because
they're only out for themselves.
They're never going to trulycare about you, no matter what
they say or do.
And again, these are parents,these are friends, these are
coworkers, these are maybe otherfamily members, these are your
romantic partners.
They could be your children,sadly, but you, just you know
(16:28):
you have to watch out foryourself and it's not a selfish
thing to do that.
It took me 45 years to figureout that it's okay to put
yourself first, it's okay tohave self-respect and to have
enough self-love to say you know, I deserve better than.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
It's really funny in life that once you realize that
you are with an abusive otherwhether it's a friend or a
spouse and you decide toseparate from that person,
oftentimes it's really hard toget rid of them.
It's like in some way you'refeeding them and when you cut
(17:12):
off the food supply they arevery upset about that.
It is a strange pattern thatseems to repeat itself.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
It is, and you know the reality of that.
I mean, I used to always jokethat.
I used to joke about a fewthings and call my ex a
cockroach because I justcouldn't get rid of him.
He just reappears constantly.
But you know what the reason isis because they're very
perceptive.
I mean, they know you, theyknow how to manipulate you, they
(17:44):
know what to say and what to doto get you to react in the way
that fulfills their ego.
So why should they have to goout and start over and learn
somebody else from scratch?
They already have you on theline and they know how to lure
you back.
Because the thing aboutnarcissists is that people think
(18:06):
it's all bad all the time.
I did not stay with myex-husband because it was that
horrible.
It was horrible more of thetime than not, but there were
good moments, there were nicethings that he did and nice
things that he would say becausehe could.
Like you said, they feel whenyou are kind of pulling away or
when you're onto them or whenyou're kind of doubting the
(18:29):
validity or the truth in whatthey're saying and doing and
what their motive is.
And you know you have all thesethings.
You're always questioningeverything.
Once you figure them out andthey sense that, so then they
again, they know you, so they'llsay and do whatever they have
to do to lure you back into thelair, you know, to get you back
(18:50):
on their side.
So you won't leave.
But if you do, if you dofinally wake up, they can also
sense that change In mysituation.
It was very odd because once Irealized that what was happening
and that I couldn't do itanymore, it was actually making
(19:11):
me physically ill.
I became autoimmune anddeveloped a lung disease because
of what doctors call thechronic stress of living in that
situation.
Yeah, it was bad, it was awful.
And when I finally just decidedthat I can't do this anymore, I
consulted with an attorneyprivately.
He had no idea about it, but hecould sense the change in me
(19:35):
and he.
I think there were many times inour relationship that I was
done, that was it, I was done, Iwas done, I was done, but then
I wasn't.
But this last time there was adifference, because I did
realize that self-respect andthat self-love.
I decided I was going to putmyself first.
(19:58):
And there's a differencebetween that and the being done,
that or the thinking you'rebeing done.
So he sensed that this was avery different change and I
think he knew it was really theend.
So he actually, while I was atwork and our son was at school,
he actually moved out.
(20:20):
He had to be the one to leaveme because he couldn't withstand
the insult and the offense tohis ego to have to tell people
that I had filed for divorce orthat I had left him.
So yeah, but it did me a favorand it was sad because I
remember coming home andnoticing things being gone and
(20:42):
then going to the bedroom andseeing his bed completely
stripped.
I mean, he didn't even leave apillow or a sheet.
He took everything and I shouldhave been crying, I should have
been devastated that after 25years, that was it.
But all I could think was thankgoodness.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Did you feel like this huge weight was suddenly
lifted off your shoulders?
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Huge and, honestly, I was preparing, I was trying to.
I had been shopping for placesfor my son and I to move to
because I didn't think I couldever get him out of that house.
So, yeah, it was the biggestblessing ever.
It certainly didn't end thereand unfortunately it's very
common.
(21:23):
I found out that I suffered theworst two cases of domestic
violence in our marriage afterthe actual divorce, and that is
very common.
Because they do want to hold on.
They don't want to let you go,but eventually, if they find
somebody else and realize thatthey have to move on, they will,
(21:44):
but they still hold on.
I mean, it's been.
This will be four years thisyear since our divorce and he
has had somebody living with himfor I want to say about three
years now, maybe a little lessthan that, but he has left me
alone for the most part.
But every now and then I'll geta text or an email which is so
(22:08):
insulting.
It offends me that he couldtreat his new well.
I guess I shouldn't besurprised because of the way he
treated me, but you know he'llsend me these messages saying
that it'll always be me and I'mthe only one and all this and
you know, I think, well, you had25 years to prove that and you
blew it.
But I mean how awful for thispoor woman that's living with
(22:31):
him, you know, with with herchildren, and that she probably
has no idea that he's goingbehind her back, just like he
had gone behind mine, you know,with other women, and that's how
they roll.
They always want to havesomebody on the hook because
they need to know that theyalways have that hook in you.
They can't ever let you go.
They're not never going torelease you.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
So when you're first with somebody and they are, Mr
Wonderful, at least to you Ihave found from experience that
the first cracks in who they areas a person seems to be
projected at other people.
Whether it's having fits intraffic or treating wait staff
(23:13):
badly, these little signs startcropping up.
Do you agree that these arewarning signs or am I off base?
Speaker 3 (23:23):
You are not off base at all.
I've been asked so many timeswhat point did you leave?
And when I look back, therewere so many.
I mean I would say we wereprobably a couple for three
weeks when he had his firstangry outburst and yes, he
(23:43):
actually purposely crashedvehicles multiple times, not
just once into trees orsomething.
I mean he damaged property.
He was oh, there was so much.
I mean he swung a crowbar at myhead.
That should have caused me tograb my kid and go.
So many things.
Yeah, there were so many timesI should have, but I stayed.
(24:08):
And why you want to talk aboutmaking dumb decisions when
you're a smart person and Ithink there's so many reasons
why people stay.
It sounds like gosh.
How could you stay in thatsituation?
But even in a normal marriagethat's falling apart.
If you think about it, it's notas easy.
(24:29):
You don't always have thefinancial ability to just walk
away.
Where are you going to go?
Where are you going to live?
Do you have children?
Something I don't talk about, orI haven't spoken about, is we
lived on a farm, so we also hadanimals that were cows, pigs,
chickens, that were dependent onus.
I had a bloodhound that hadepilepsy and she would have
(24:50):
sometimes a dozen grand malseizures every day.
I couldn't just go anywherewith her, I couldn't take her to
a shelter.
I wasn't going to put her downeither and make her suffer
because he was an indecent humanbeing, your kid.
Once my son came along, I feltlike I had to stay, keep the
family together.
You think you're doing thisnoble thing, sacrificing your
(25:13):
happiness so that your childrencan be in a home with both
parents, even though, lookingback, it would have probably
been better for us to leave andthat he wasn't exposed to all
that he was.
So I mean, I think everybodyhas those basic reasons and then
, when you're in a situationlike I was in and some people
are in much worse situations youare fearing for your life.
(25:36):
Because the last few years,part of my problem was that I'm
not sure how we got from point Ato point B, but he got to the
point where he was actuallytelling our neighbors that he
was planning to kill me and hewas sending me death threats,
death threats, and there weredefinitely even unspoken actions
that he enacted to make surethat I knew where my place was,
(26:01):
and so there was a fear.
I thought, okay, even if I dogo, am I going to be safe?
Or am I going to always belooking over my shoulder, which
you know I often did, even afterthings were over?
So there's a lot, there's a lotof reasons.
So I don't know if it's so muchthat we make bad decisions, but
I think we make decisions, whenwe're in those situations, based
(26:23):
on emotion versus intellect,because, you know, now I can
look at people in that situation.
They reach out to me and I'llsay but there's a shelter,
there's even, you know, somecommunities even have places
that will take your animals foryou and care for your animals
until you're back on your feet.
(26:43):
Nobody is going to let yourchildren go without your feet.
Nobody is going to let yourchildren go without a meal.
Nobody is going to let you gounclothed.
There are so many resources, nomatter where you are in this
world, that there are peoplethat will take care of you and
make sure to help you and makesure you're safe.
And had I maybe realized that,intellectually I would have left
(27:04):
much sooner with my son.
But I think when you're in thatsituation and again they lure
you, you have these momentswhere you're questioning is it
me?
Because why does everybody elsein the world think they're so
generous and charitable andfunny and charming and you're
the only one who sees thismonster?
And they, they do.
(27:26):
They gaslight you and make youreally doubt your person.
Your entire perception ofreality.
I mean and that's essentiallywhere I got is that I started
keeping a notebook just to makesure I knew what was what,
because I I, he was making mefeel like I was completely
denuded.
I mean, they love to call uscrazy.
(27:47):
If you're with a narcissist, Idon't care what relationship.
I think it's kind of funny thatthey just go to crazy and I'm
like okay, can you be morespecific?
Pick a disorder which mine hadme so convinced early on in our
relationship that I was bipolarthat I actually went to a
psychiatrist and came home withtwo medications for bipolar
(28:10):
disorder.
I took those medications for 17years and they numbed my
emotions, they numbed me, whichis another reason that I stayed
so long, because I just kind ofsubdued myself and dismissed my
own feelings.
Because it was me, I was theproblem, I wasn't seeing things
(28:31):
correctly, and it's unfortunatethat it took after the end of
that relationship, after thedivorce, I had a follow-up
appointment, like I did everyyear, with that psychiatrist and
he said I feel terrible.
But he says I didn't know youwere going through all that.
And he says now I see you, youwere just having normal
(28:51):
reactions to abuse, but you werestill enjoying those moments in
your life with your son or withfamily or whatever where you
could be joyous.
So it wasn't an up and down.
He's like be joyous, so itwasn't an up and down.
He's like you were just beingabused.
So I haven't been on thosemedications.
He retracted the bipolardiagnosis but it's so sad to
(29:13):
think that I allowed this.
Compared to me and it soundsterrible to say, but my ex was
not very well-educated and camefrom a very small town and just
he wasn't very bright all around.
But it's sad to think that Iallowed him to be the authority
on my medical and mental healthstatus and on my life in general
(29:37):
, when he really had noeducation or any way to back
that up with any kind ofvalidity.
So that's part of what I try toexplain to people that are in
these situations that I get thefear my life was on the line too
, and when you really think yourlife is at risk.
(29:59):
You will do things and saythings that you would never do
otherwise.
But at the same time, I hadthought for so long that he had
been holding me in our marriage,that he had been binding me
with these restrictions andholding me down, and I realized,
(30:19):
when I finally realized, whatwas going on.
I'm like you know what.
It was me.
It was me.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
That's good, because that gives you the power the
power to change things.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Exactly.
I thought he had thathypothetical collar and leash on
me, like I was a dog thatcouldn't go more than five feet
away.
Yet it was me.
I had become my mother, I wasenabling, excusing and
tolerating, and so when Ifinally decided I wasn't going
to do that anymore, thingschanged and again I do not
(30:51):
dismiss or disrespect anybody.
That's in a much more severesituation and I have heard some
where it might be safer to stayand I'm so sad for those people.
But more of the time than not,I feel like there's enough
reason, justifiable reason andenough ability to wake up and
(31:15):
get out in some way.
It does require planning.
It does require some kind ofgauging the mood and the
situation to make sure you cando it in the best way possible,
especially if there's childreninvolved.
But it's possible and it's somuch better on the other side.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
I agree and I'm going to be honest I admire you
because you went through a lotof tumultuous moments and those
types of things can keep you aprisoner.
And the final time that youdecide you're going to leave and
you leave, you have to know andbelieve in that decision, not
only from your mind but rightdown to your soul.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
That speaks to something you commented on
earlier in our conversationabout you know, when you do have
success.
And now, mind you, when I saysuccess, that's whatever success
means to somebody.
Most people relate that toaccomplishments or jobs or
whatever.
But I mean to me, none of that.
I don't care how much money youmake or what kind of car you
(32:21):
drive or whatever.
To me, success is where I am now, which is miraculously
healthier and amazingly happier,and I am remarried to a
longtime friend and I neverthought honestly, that I could
ever have a healthy romanticrelationship after everything
I've been through and cominginto it with triggers and the
(32:43):
PTSD and anxiety andhypervigilance and all of these
things that have basicallyallowed me to survive up to now.
But I am in a pretty healthymarriage.
He's very gentle and patientand understanding, mind you.
But I am actually surprised atmyself.
I feel that I have succeeded,actually surprised at myself.
(33:07):
I feel that I have succeeded.
Am I the richest person ever?
No.
Do I have some fancy job title?
No.
Do I have a Nobel Peace Prize?
No, but I am successful and Ican look at myself and feel that
way now, whereas five years agoeven I would not have even
entertained the idea that I wasworth or deserving of anything
(33:27):
of any such positive thing,because I had allowed that man
to diminish me to nothing.
I believed that I was thenothing that my stepfather
thought I was, that my motherthought I was and that my
ex-husband thought I was.
And now I realize, no, I'mactually okay.
I'm actually a much betterhuman being than they led me to
(33:48):
believe that I was.
And, yes, I am thriving because,now that I know my worth, it is
just opened so many more doorsto me and it has allowed me to
be choosier and recognize thepeople around me, because I
don't want to associate withpeople like that who are going
to bring me down.
I always say it's kind of likebeing a flower in a garden.
(34:10):
I don't want to be in dry soilthat starves me and makes me
droop, and no sunshine and it'salways dark.
I want to be in that nice,moist soil full of nutrients
that are making me grow andblossom and be colorful and, you
know, put my face up into thesunshine.
(34:31):
That's what we should all want,and I don't care who you are
and what your income level is oreducational level.
Everybody is deserving of abeautiful life, whatever that
means to you and whatever it is.
Everybody deserves that.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I also think it is a choice when it comes right down
to it.
Some circumstances are moredifficult than others, but at
the end of the day, you eitherchoose to leave and thrive or
stay and wither.
Before we close today, pleaselet our listeners know the
different programs that youoffer through your website and
(35:09):
other avenues.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Of course, and you know what, we're all in that
same boat together.
Just because I'm speaking andpeople tell me that I'm
inspiring them and motivating.
We all have our days.
I mean, none of us are perfectall the time.
We can take a few steps back.
We just got to sometimes getback up and wipe our knees off
(35:32):
and wipe the tears from our faceand keep moving forward.
But yeah, I would just suggestto people, if you go to my
website danasdiazcom, I do havea quiz on there to determine if
you're in an abusive situationwith a narcissist.
You can kind of get an ideafrom the yes and no questions
(35:52):
that are asked in that quiz whatkind of a relationship that
you're in.
I also have a blog on there,just some things that sometimes
come to mind that might resonatewith somebody, and I also have
my links for um to buy my firstbook, which is about my marriage
, um, and you can sign up on theemail there as well, because I
will have two more books comingout later this year.
(36:14):
One will be about my childhoodand that whole situation, and
then I will have the sequel tothe book that's out about my
marriage, where I talk moreabout where I am now and what
I've dealt with.
You know kind of the journey inhaving that more, that healthier
relationship that I neverthought I could have, and what
(36:35):
love looks like for somebodythat's come out of you know a
more traumatic life prior tothat.
So there's a lot of thingsthere.
Facebook and Instagram linksare on my website as well.
I post content every day thatmight be funny and make you
laugh or might give you sometips for self-care healing.
(36:56):
Sometimes it's just statisticsabout narcissism or abuse, but I
try to provide a little ofeverything, for there's so many
things that to think about inthis realm.
So I absolutely encourageeverybody to reach out and
follow me and see what I canprovide for you and definitely
(37:16):
message me if there's anythingyou have questions about.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Do you do remote consultations?
Speaker 3 (37:22):
I am going to be looking into that.
I am not doing that yet becauseI am in the process of
publishing the next two booksand that consumes a lot of my
time.
But once they are out laterthis year, that will be one of
the next steps for me, because Idefinitely think that there's a
lot of people, no matter whattheir trauma is, that just need
(37:43):
a little direction or just evensometimes need somebody to get
them, because you really don'tget this narcissist abuse thing
unless you've really beenthrough it.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
A lot of people have gone through it and not realized
they went through it becausethey weren't aware of the label
and personality type that you'reoutlined today.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Yeah, that is true too.
A lot of people do say that,but believe me there are things
that are very unique.
Yeah, because it doesn't seemreal, because I think that it's
that doubt again.
They really make you questionwhat your perception is.
You just think they're a jerkor that they're arrogant?
Arrogant or whatever it is.
(38:23):
And then you realize well, waita second, all these things have
happened and it's like they'reall downloaded with the same
software because they all do andsay the exact same things.
It's a little creepy.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Dana, thanks so much for joining us today and I truly
hope that in the future we haveanother interview for my show.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Thank you so much.
Yes, we'll definitely do thatand if any of the listeners have
any questions, definitely getthem to you, because I love
addressing people directly.
There's a lot to cover in thissubject.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
There is, and the right information can be so
life-changing.
That's it for this episode.
(39:21):
Thank you so much for beingwith us today.
I am so happy that you made itto the end of this interview,
because Dana S Diaz has suchwonderful information and advice
.
Next week we'll be returning toour regular programming and
guess what?
We're taking you on a road trip, so we'll see you then.
(39:43):
Please follow us if you haven'talready Hit the notification
button, so you'll be aware whenour next episode drops.
And in the meantime, alwaysremember you know we love you.
We'll talk soon.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
One Good Thing Media is brought to you by our host
and creator, Gerald Spear.
All things technical are byDavid Dodd and our announcer is
Robert Spear.
Our theme song is Force by HGST.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Thank, you Bye.
Welcome to One Good Thing Media, your official
podcast review channel.
We search the vast digitallandscape on a daily basis to
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Are you ready to discover newfavorites to add to your
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Stay tuned and listen to host.
Gerald.
Edition of One Good Thing Media.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Over the past 18 months, we have conducted
several compelling interviewsthat aired at a time when our
podcast was much smaller than itis today.
Because we don't want ourlisteners to miss these
fascinating conversations and toensure that they aren't
one-and-done airings, we'veremastered these interviews as
(01:18):
standalone episodes, which weare dropping twice a month.
This means that every otherepisode will be an interview for
the foreseeable future.
This week we are featuring aninterview with Dana Diaz, who
suffered a 25-year marriage to anarcissist that originally
aired in January 2024.
(01:40):
Today, dana is free, hasremarried, written three books,
achieved national attention forher work with displaced and
sometimes unhoused women, andwho is now freely sharing her
insights and knowledge about howto spot and avoid anyone with a
(02:00):
narcissistic personality and,if you're already involved, how
to break ties with that person.
Dana has an active social mediapresence as well as a website
that you should check out.
Links to all of her resourcesare included in the show notes
for this episode.
Fyi, we've already aired twoepisodes that feature amazing
(02:27):
interviews that we haveconducted over the past several
months.
If compelling interviews areyour jam, check out episode six
of our podcast, where we air aremastered version of our
conversation with Annie Temple,an erotic entrepreneur who
openly discusses her many rolesin the sex industry, and her
(02:49):
book Annie Temple's BusinessBible, which focuses on teaching
other erotic entrepreneurs howto stay safe, identify their
business brand and how to managetheir money.
And if you're interested inlearning about what it's like to
belong to a cult, or, morespecifically, the Institute of
(03:11):
Basic Life Principles, the samereligious organization that the
Duggar family espoused in the 19Kids and Counting reality TV
show, check out episode 8, whichfeatures our interview with
Amanda Briggs, who talks aboutwhat it was like growing up in
the IBLP and the repression shefaced as a female child and
(03:36):
young adult.
We're going to start ourinterview in just a moment.
Just a moment.
Did you know that you cansupport us by supporting who
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A company that really does givea crap?
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you're helping to preserve ourforests.
Please give a crap by clickingon the sponsor's link in our
show notes and go even greener,starting today.
We have a very special guesttoday for our interview Dana S
Diaz.
Dana is a relationship expertwho once was married to, and
(04:45):
endured, a full-blown narcissist.
Hi, dana, how you doing?
Speaker 3 (04:52):
I'm doing well.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
My pleasure.
I have been looking forward tothis interview.
I know you've got some answersfor our listeners and, to tell
you the truth, answers for metoo.
You've met and have beeninvolved with quite a few people
in your life who werenarcissists, starting as a child
, a time in your life when youhad no control over who you were
(05:17):
living with.
Please tell our listeners alittle bit about your background
, who you are and why you're sointerested in this particular
subject.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Absolutely yes, I am.
I am a normal person likeeverybody else.
I'm a wife, I'm a mother.
I am now a cat mom because myson is 20 and bought his own
home, you know, just trying tomake it in this world like
everybody else.
I just have, unfortunately, hadlifelong experience with abuse,
(05:47):
primarily at the hands ofnarcissists, and so I'm using
that knowledge and thatexperience now, you know, to try
to make good of it and tohopefully allow other people to
learn from my mistakes and fromthe things that I learned along
the way, because certainly Ithink as victims, we think
(06:09):
things will never change andthat you know our circumstances
are so dire and how do we getstuck in them.
But sometimes you just have tolook at it from the outside, and
now that I am on the outside ofit, you know I can certainly
offer that perspective to thosethat are still in it.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
The term narcissist is bandied about so much these
days that I think it has becomea catch-all term for people that
behave badly.
For our purposes, can youplease define the term
narcissist?
I know you have a more accuratedescription.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's very complex, so I'm justgoing to keep it very simple
that a narcissist is somebodywho has to feel much more
important than they probablyreally are.
And again, that's a very, verybasic definition, because
there's various types ofnarcissists.
And now they say there's aspectrum, which I do agree with,
and I always say that Idescribe it as kind of like a
(07:12):
tumor, like you can have abenign tumor that's there, that
doesn't bother you, and theseare the narcissists that you see
on social media that are takingpictures of themselves all the
time and posting them, buthonestly, they really do look as
good as they think they do, soyou can't really hate them for
that.
But then on the other side, youhave those malignant tumors
(07:33):
that cause you problems.
They might even kill you, andthose are, unfortunately, the
narcissists that I have dealtwith in my life.
And these are the narcissiststhat comprise over 20% of our
prison population in the US andthey're very dangerous.
When you see domestic violenceor watch true crime shows like
48 Hours, these are, you know,more times than not, these are
(07:58):
the more extreme, thosemalignant narcissists.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
That's very interesting.
I haven't thought about it, atleast up until this point, quite
the way that you just describedit, and I absolutely had no
idea about the prison population.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah, it's all about control and power with them.
It makes them, it fulfillstheir ego.
They sort of exalt themselvesin being able to conquer others,
whether it's by committingtheir crimes or evading the law
or just even controlling andoverpowering another human being
.
It gives them that sense of,like I said, on a very basic
(08:40):
level, that sense of superiorityand importance that they don't
otherwise feel, Because reallyit stems from a deep-seated
insecurity.
They don't feel that level ofself-worth inside themselves, so
they seek it outwardly.
It's just that they do it invery dangerous ways and
obviously unhealthy ways.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I so agree, and sometimes you know when you're
around different couples and thehusband or the wife is
constantly belittling theirspouse, trying to send the
message of oh, you are so stupid.
One of the things that I know Iwant to learn from our
interview today, and I'm suremany of our listeners do as well
(09:25):
, and that is why is it thatsmart people, very smart people
oftentimes are in relationshipsthat are destructive and
negative and they put up with somuch they seem to even just put
on their blinders and actunaware of it.
(09:48):
How can you explain that?
It baffles me.
Obviously I wouldn't be asking.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Absolutely.
It's very complicated, I think,even just as individual beings
I mean, we all are raised adifferent way.
We all come from differentcircumstances, different
cultures.
You know there's so manyinfluences in how we think and
what you know, our moral compass.
But you hit on something reallyimportant and I know for myself
(10:19):
I made a very bad decision,obviously, in choosing the first
man that I married.
I made a very bad decision,obviously, in choosing the first
man that I married, whom Ispent 25 years way too long with
.
But it stemmed from exactly whatyou had said, because in my
childhood my mother married anabusive narcissist.
He was only abusive to mebecause I wasn't his biological
(10:40):
child, but the verbal abuse, theattacks almost every single day
and I'm talking from the time Iwas a little girl, four or five
years old.
He would tell me I shouldn'thave to pay for you to be
clothed and sheltered and fed.
You're not even my child.
And he did call me stupid and Iwas incompetent and he would
(11:03):
say nobody's ever gonna love you, you're not worth my time, I
mean.
And then the actions followed.
So, even though I knew betterand I was a tenacious little
thing, let me tell you I stoodup for myself because I knew
what he was doing was wrong andI could see the way other you
know friends of mine were beingtreated by their parents, that I
(11:25):
knew I was being mistreated,but see, my mother looked the
other way or my mother wouldexcuse or enable or just be very
tolerant of him.
Oh, that's just how he is, andmaybe if you didn't upset him so
the blame was always shiftedback to me that I was the
problem.
And when you hear that so often, even if you don't believe it,
(11:47):
at some point you do internalizeit, especially if you're a
child, and that carries with you, because most adults that are
in toxic romantic relationshipsas adults well, not even
romantic relationships, actually, I'll take that back.
You can have toxic friendshipsrelationships actually, I'll
take that back.
You can have toxic friendships.
You can have these, you knownarcissistic relationships at
(12:08):
work in your community and in somany aspects you tolerate it
because that's what you know,that's what you're familiar with
, because it happened in yourchildhood.
So oftentimes, more times thannot, I am finding that if you're
in a situation as an adult, youexperienced it as a child.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
So what you're saying , then, is no matter how smart
someone appears to be or howsuccessful they are, there isn't
necessarily a correlation withtheir internal esteem, correct,
Correct?
I'm curious whether or notnarcissists are attracted to you
(12:52):
or you're attracted to themonce you're wise to what they
are and what they can do.
How do you spot them before youget involved?
Because, let's face it, whenyou first meet them, they are so
charming.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Thank you for saying that, because that's the thing
I've said to so many people.
I think people think I marriedChucky and I'm like no, I mean I
saw the signs.
I mean talk about red flags.
They were waving right.
For I mean, literally the momentI met him he reminded my ex,
(13:33):
reminded me of my abusivestepfather.
So I mean I knew instinctivelyoh no, I know this type not
interested.
But you know, no, we are notattracted to.
You know men who run aroundwith butcher knives and
disheveled hair.
We don't think that's whatwe're getting into.
You know, even Ted Bundy, theserial killer, was handsome and
charming and women were drawn tohim and he went home every
night to the same woman and herlittle girl and the little girl
(13:56):
just absolutely adored him.
So these are people that theyare very selective about who
they prey upon.
Even in my circumstance inchildhood, I know that when my
mother and her husband had theirown child, eventually my
brother had a completelydifferent childhood experience
(14:17):
than I did, because he wastreated like any child would
want to be.
He was loved, encouraged,nurtured, supported.
It was just me, you know.
So I mean, they definitelytarget people, but things to
look out for, certainly what youhad said before.
If anybody demeans you, insultsyou, puts you down in any way,
(14:40):
I mean, obviously this isn't anice person, obviously if
they're going to do that to you.
But this is somebody who'sdefinitely trying to seek some
kind of like you said an outwardexpression or some kind of
superiority over you.
Because if they have todiminish you to feel better
(15:01):
about themselves, you probablydon't want to submit yourself to
any kind of relationship orfriendship like that the other
things to look out for.
If they're very arrogant oraloof, dismissive of your
achievements and we see this alot, especially in the workplace
or in friendships with jealousyJealousy is not an attractive
(15:23):
quality, but when somebody can'teven just say good job when you
have achieved something, it'sbecause they're jealous.
And when people are jealous,it's unfortunate that they will
try to take you down in some way.
Maybe they'll try to takecredit for your future
accomplice or try to again putyou in a situation where others
(15:44):
might think less of you ordiminish your success in some
way.
They're just trying to put youdown.
There's enough room in thisworld for everybody to achieve
whatever it is they're lookingfor, whether personally,
professionally or otherwise.
There is no need for that.
We can all rise to the top ofthe mountain.
We can all climb there.
(16:05):
There's no need to kick peopledown.
And those are the people youwant to look out for, because
they're only out for themselves.
They're never going to trulycare about you, no matter what
they say or do.
And again, these are parents,these are friends, these are
coworkers, these are maybe otherfamily members, these are your
romantic partners.
They could be your children,sadly, but you, just you know
(16:28):
you have to watch out foryourself and it's not a selfish
thing to do that.
It took me 45 years to figureout that it's okay to put
yourself first, it's okay tohave self-respect and to have
enough self-love to say you know, I deserve better than.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
It's really funny in life that once you realize that
you are with an abusive otherwhether it's a friend or a
spouse and you decide toseparate from that person,
oftentimes it's really hard toget rid of them.
It's like in some way you'refeeding them and when you cut
(17:12):
off the food supply they arevery upset about that.
It is a strange pattern thatseems to repeat itself.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
It is, and you know the reality of that.
I mean, I used to always jokethat.
I used to joke about a fewthings and call my ex a
cockroach because I justcouldn't get rid of him.
He just reappears constantly.
But you know what the reason isis because they're very
perceptive.
I mean, they know you, theyknow how to manipulate you, they
(17:44):
know what to say and what to doto get you to react in the way
that fulfills their ego.
So why should they have to goout and start over and learn
somebody else from scratch?
They already have you on theline and they know how to lure
you back.
Because the thing aboutnarcissists is that people think
(18:06):
it's all bad all the time.
I did not stay with myex-husband because it was that
horrible.
It was horrible more of thetime than not, but there were
good moments, there were nicethings that he did and nice
things that he would say becausehe could.
Like you said, they feel whenyou are kind of pulling away or
when you're onto them or whenyou're kind of doubting the
(18:29):
validity or the truth in whatthey're saying and doing and
what their motive is.
And you know you have all thesethings.
You're always questioningeverything.
Once you figure them out andthey sense that, so then they
again, they know you, so they'llsay and do whatever they have
to do to lure you back into thelair, you know, to get you back
(18:50):
on their side.
So you won't leave.
But if you do, if you dofinally wake up, they can also
sense that change In mysituation.
It was very odd because once Irealized that what was happening
and that I couldn't do itanymore, it was actually making
(19:11):
me physically ill.
I became autoimmune anddeveloped a lung disease because
of what doctors call thechronic stress of living in that
situation.
Yeah, it was bad, it was awful.
And when I finally just decidedthat I can't do this anymore, I
consulted with an attorneyprivately.
He had no idea about it, but hecould sense the change in me
(19:35):
and he.
I think there were many times inour relationship that I was
done, that was it, I was done, Iwas done, I was done, but then
I wasn't.
But this last time there was adifference, because I did
realize that self-respect andthat self-love.
I decided I was going to putmyself first.
(19:58):
And there's a differencebetween that and the being done,
that or the thinking you'rebeing done.
So he sensed that this was avery different change and I
think he knew it was really theend.
So he actually, while I was atwork and our son was at school,
he actually moved out.
(20:20):
He had to be the one to leaveme because he couldn't withstand
the insult and the offense tohis ego to have to tell people
that I had filed for divorce orthat I had left him.
So yeah, but it did me a favorand it was sad because I
remember coming home andnoticing things being gone and
(20:42):
then going to the bedroom andseeing his bed completely
stripped.
I mean, he didn't even leave apillow or a sheet.
He took everything and I shouldhave been crying, I should have
been devastated that after 25years, that was it.
But all I could think was thankgoodness.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Did you feel like this huge weight was suddenly
lifted off your shoulders?
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Huge and, honestly, I was preparing, I was trying to.
I had been shopping for placesfor my son and I to move to
because I didn't think I couldever get him out of that house.
So, yeah, it was the biggestblessing ever.
It certainly didn't end thereand unfortunately it's very
common.
(21:23):
I found out that I suffered theworst two cases of domestic
violence in our marriage afterthe actual divorce, and that is
very common.
Because they do want to hold on.
They don't want to let you go,but eventually, if they find
somebody else and realize thatthey have to move on, they will,
(21:44):
but they still hold on.
I mean, it's been.
This will be four years thisyear since our divorce and he
has had somebody living with himfor I want to say about three
years now, maybe a little lessthan that, but he has left me
alone for the most part.
But every now and then I'll geta text or an email which is so
(22:08):
insulting.
It offends me that he couldtreat his new well.
I guess I shouldn't besurprised because of the way he
treated me, but you know he'llsend me these messages saying
that it'll always be me and I'mthe only one and all this and
you know, I think, well, you had25 years to prove that and you
blew it.
But I mean how awful for thispoor woman that's living with
(22:31):
him, you know, with with herchildren, and that she probably
has no idea that he's goingbehind her back, just like he
had gone behind mine, you know,with other women, and that's how
they roll.
They always want to havesomebody on the hook because
they need to know that theyalways have that hook in you.
They can't ever let you go.
They're not never going torelease you.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
So when you're first with somebody and they are, Mr
Wonderful, at least to you Ihave found from experience that
the first cracks in who they areas a person seems to be
projected at other people.
Whether it's having fits intraffic or treating wait staff
(23:13):
badly, these little signs startcropping up.
Do you agree that these arewarning signs or am I off base?
Speaker 3 (23:23):
You are not off base at all.
I've been asked so many timeswhat point did you leave?
And when I look back, therewere so many.
I mean I would say we wereprobably a couple for three
weeks when he had his firstangry outburst and yes, he
(23:43):
actually purposely crashedvehicles multiple times, not
just once into trees orsomething.
I mean he damaged property.
He was oh, there was so much.
I mean he swung a crowbar at myhead.
That should have caused me tograb my kid and go.
So many things.
Yeah, there were so many timesI should have, but I stayed.
(24:08):
And why you want to talk aboutmaking dumb decisions when
you're a smart person and Ithink there's so many reasons
why people stay.
It sounds like gosh.
How could you stay in thatsituation?
But even in a normal marriagethat's falling apart.
If you think about it, it's notas easy.
(24:29):
You don't always have thefinancial ability to just walk
away.
Where are you going to go?
Where are you going to live?
Do you have children?
Something I don't talk about, orI haven't spoken about, is we
lived on a farm, so we also hadanimals that were cows, pigs,
chickens, that were dependent onus.
I had a bloodhound that hadepilepsy and she would have
(24:50):
sometimes a dozen grand malseizures every day.
I couldn't just go anywherewith her, I couldn't take her to
a shelter.
I wasn't going to put her downeither and make her suffer
because he was an indecent humanbeing, your kid.
Once my son came along, I feltlike I had to stay, keep the
family together.
You think you're doing thisnoble thing, sacrificing your
(25:13):
happiness so that your childrencan be in a home with both
parents, even though, lookingback, it would have probably
been better for us to leave andthat he wasn't exposed to all
that he was.
So I mean, I think everybodyhas those basic reasons and then
, when you're in a situationlike I was in and some people
are in much worse situations youare fearing for your life.
(25:36):
Because the last few years,part of my problem was that I'm
not sure how we got from point Ato point B, but he got to the
point where he was actuallytelling our neighbors that he
was planning to kill me and hewas sending me death threats,
death threats, and there weredefinitely even unspoken actions
that he enacted to make surethat I knew where my place was,
(26:01):
and so there was a fear.
I thought, okay, even if I dogo, am I going to be safe?
Or am I going to always belooking over my shoulder, which
you know I often did, even afterthings were over?
So there's a lot, there's a lotof reasons.
So I don't know if it's so muchthat we make bad decisions, but
I think we make decisions, whenwe're in those situations, based
(26:23):
on emotion versus intellect,because, you know, now I can
look at people in that situation.
They reach out to me and I'llsay but there's a shelter,
there's even, you know, somecommunities even have places
that will take your animals foryou and care for your animals
until you're back on your feet.
(26:43):
Nobody is going to let yourchildren go without your feet.
Nobody is going to let yourchildren go without a meal.
Nobody is going to let you gounclothed.
There are so many resources, nomatter where you are in this
world, that there are peoplethat will take care of you and
make sure to help you and makesure you're safe.
And had I maybe realized that,intellectually I would have left
(27:04):
much sooner with my son.
But I think when you're in thatsituation and again they lure
you, you have these momentswhere you're questioning is it
me?
Because why does everybody elsein the world think they're so
generous and charitable andfunny and charming and you're
the only one who sees thismonster?
And they, they do.
(27:26):
They gaslight you and make youreally doubt your person.
Your entire perception ofreality.
I mean and that's essentiallywhere I got is that I started
keeping a notebook just to makesure I knew what was what,
because I I, he was making mefeel like I was completely
denuded.
I mean, they love to call uscrazy.
(27:47):
If you're with a narcissist, Idon't care what relationship.
I think it's kind of funny thatthey just go to crazy and I'm
like okay, can you be morespecific?
Pick a disorder which mine hadme so convinced early on in our
relationship that I was bipolarthat I actually went to a
psychiatrist and came home withtwo medications for bipolar
(28:10):
disorder.
I took those medications for 17years and they numbed my
emotions, they numbed me, whichis another reason that I stayed
so long, because I just kind ofsubdued myself and dismissed my
own feelings.
Because it was me, I was theproblem, I wasn't seeing things
(28:31):
correctly, and it's unfortunatethat it took after the end of
that relationship, after thedivorce, I had a follow-up
appointment, like I did everyyear, with that psychiatrist and
he said I feel terrible.
But he says I didn't know youwere going through all that.
And he says now I see you, youwere just having normal
(28:51):
reactions to abuse, but you werestill enjoying those moments in
your life with your son or withfamily or whatever where you
could be joyous.
So it wasn't an up and down.
He's like be joyous, so itwasn't an up and down.
He's like you were just beingabused.
So I haven't been on thosemedications.
He retracted the bipolardiagnosis but it's so sad to
(29:13):
think that I allowed this.
Compared to me and it soundsterrible to say, but my ex was
not very well-educated and camefrom a very small town and just
he wasn't very bright all around.
But it's sad to think that Iallowed him to be the authority
on my medical and mental healthstatus and on my life in general
(29:37):
, when he really had noeducation or any way to back
that up with any kind ofvalidity.
So that's part of what I try toexplain to people that are in
these situations that I get thefear my life was on the line too
, and when you really think yourlife is at risk.
(29:59):
You will do things and saythings that you would never do
otherwise.
But at the same time, I hadthought for so long that he had
been holding me in our marriage,that he had been binding me
with these restrictions andholding me down, and I realized,
(30:19):
when I finally realized, whatwas going on.
I'm like you know what.
It was me.
It was me.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
That's good, because that gives you the power the
power to change things.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Exactly.
I thought he had thathypothetical collar and leash on
me, like I was a dog thatcouldn't go more than five feet
away.
Yet it was me.
I had become my mother, I wasenabling, excusing and
tolerating, and so when Ifinally decided I wasn't going
to do that anymore, thingschanged and again I do not
(30:51):
dismiss or disrespect anybody.
That's in a much more severesituation and I have heard some
where it might be safer to stayand I'm so sad for those people.
But more of the time than not,I feel like there's enough
reason, justifiable reason andenough ability to wake up and
(31:15):
get out in some way.
It does require planning.
It does require some kind ofgauging the mood and the
situation to make sure you cando it in the best way possible,
especially if there's childreninvolved.
But it's possible and it's somuch better on the other side.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
I agree and I'm going to be honest I admire you
because you went through a lotof tumultuous moments and those
types of things can keep you aprisoner.
And the final time that youdecide you're going to leave and
you leave, you have to know andbelieve in that decision, not
only from your mind but rightdown to your soul.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
That speaks to something you commented on
earlier in our conversationabout you know, when you do have
success.
And now, mind you, when I saysuccess, that's whatever success
means to somebody.
Most people relate that toaccomplishments or jobs or
whatever.
But I mean to me, none of that.
I don't care how much money youmake or what kind of car you
(32:21):
drive or whatever.
To me, success is where I am now, which is miraculously
healthier and amazingly happier,and I am remarried to a
longtime friend and I neverthought honestly, that I could
ever have a healthy romanticrelationship after everything
I've been through and cominginto it with triggers and the
(32:43):
PTSD and anxiety andhypervigilance and all of these
things that have basicallyallowed me to survive up to now.
But I am in a pretty healthymarriage.
He's very gentle and patientand understanding, mind you.
But I am actually surprised atmyself.
I feel that I have succeeded,actually surprised at myself.
(33:07):
I feel that I have succeeded.
Am I the richest person ever?
No.
Do I have some fancy job title?
No.
Do I have a Nobel Peace Prize?
No, but I am successful and Ican look at myself and feel that
way now, whereas five years agoeven I would not have even
entertained the idea that I wasworth or deserving of anything
(33:27):
of any such positive thing,because I had allowed that man
to diminish me to nothing.
I believed that I was thenothing that my stepfather
thought I was, that my motherthought I was and that my
ex-husband thought I was.
And now I realize, no, I'mactually okay.
I'm actually a much betterhuman being than they led me to
(33:48):
believe that I was.
And, yes, I am thriving because,now that I know my worth, it is
just opened so many more doorsto me and it has allowed me to
be choosier and recognize thepeople around me, because I
don't want to associate withpeople like that who are going
to bring me down.
I always say it's kind of likebeing a flower in a garden.
(34:10):
I don't want to be in dry soilthat starves me and makes me
droop, and no sunshine and it'salways dark.
I want to be in that nice,moist soil full of nutrients
that are making me grow andblossom and be colorful and, you
know, put my face up into thesunshine.
(34:31):
That's what we should all want,and I don't care who you are
and what your income level is oreducational level.
Everybody is deserving of abeautiful life, whatever that
means to you and whatever it is.
Everybody deserves that.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I also think it is a choice when it comes right down
to it.
Some circumstances are moredifficult than others, but at
the end of the day, you eitherchoose to leave and thrive or
stay and wither.
Before we close today, pleaselet our listeners know the
different programs that youoffer through your website and
(35:09):
other avenues.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Of course, and you know what, we're all in that
same boat together.
Just because I'm speaking andpeople tell me that I'm
inspiring them and motivating.
We all have our days.
I mean, none of us are perfectall the time.
We can take a few steps back.
We just got to sometimes getback up and wipe our knees off
(35:32):
and wipe the tears from our faceand keep moving forward.
But yeah, I would just suggestto people, if you go to my
website danasdiazcom, I do havea quiz on there to determine if
you're in an abusive situationwith a narcissist.
You can kind of get an ideafrom the yes and no questions
(35:52):
that are asked in that quiz whatkind of a relationship that
you're in.
I also have a blog on there,just some things that sometimes
come to mind that might resonatewith somebody, and I also have
my links for um to buy my firstbook, which is about my marriage
, um, and you can sign up on theemail there as well, because I
will have two more books comingout later this year.
(36:14):
One will be about my childhoodand that whole situation, and
then I will have the sequel tothe book that's out about my
marriage, where I talk moreabout where I am now and what
I've dealt with.
You know kind of the journey inhaving that more, that healthier
relationship that I neverthought I could have, and what
(36:35):
love looks like for somebodythat's come out of you know a
more traumatic life prior tothat.
So there's a lot of thingsthere.
Facebook and Instagram linksare on my website as well.
I post content every day thatmight be funny and make you
laugh or might give you sometips for self-care healing.
(36:56):
Sometimes it's just statisticsabout narcissism or abuse, but I
try to provide a little ofeverything, for there's so many
things that to think about inthis realm.
So I absolutely encourageeverybody to reach out and
follow me and see what I canprovide for you and definitely
(37:16):
message me if there's anythingyou have questions about.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Do you do remote consultations?
Speaker 3 (37:22):
I am going to be looking into that.
I am not doing that yet becauseI am in the process of
publishing the next two booksand that consumes a lot of my
time.
But once they are out laterthis year, that will be one of
the next steps for me, because Idefinitely think that there's a
lot of people, no matter whattheir trauma is, that just need
(37:43):
a little direction or just evensometimes need somebody to get
them, because you really don'tget this narcissist abuse thing
unless you've really beenthrough it.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
A lot of people have gone through it and not realized
they went through it becausethey weren't aware of the label
and personality type that you'reoutlined today.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Yeah, that is true too.
A lot of people do say that,but believe me there are things
that are very unique.
Yeah, because it doesn't seemreal, because I think that it's
that doubt again.
They really make you questionwhat your perception is.
You just think they're a jerkor that they're arrogant?
Arrogant or whatever it is.
(38:23):
And then you realize well, waita second, all these things have
happened and it's like they'reall downloaded with the same
software because they all do andsay the exact same things.
It's a little creepy.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Dana, thanks so much for joining us today and I truly
hope that in the future we haveanother interview for my show.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Thank you so much.
Yes, we'll definitely do thatand if any of the listeners have
any questions, definitely getthem to you, because I love
addressing people directly.
There's a lot to cover in thissubject.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
There is, and the right information can be so
life-changing.
That's it for this episode.
(39:21):
Thank you so much for beingwith us today.
I am so happy that you made itto the end of this interview,
because Dana S Diaz has suchwonderful information and advice
.
Next week we'll be returning toour regular programming and
guess what?
We're taking you on a road trip, so we'll see you then.
(39:43):
Please follow us if you haven'talready Hit the notification
button, so you'll be aware whenour next episode drops.
And in the meantime, alwaysremember you know we love you.
We'll talk soon.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
One Good Thing Media is brought to you by our host
and creator, Gerald Spear.
All things technical are byDavid Dodd and our announcer is
Robert Spear.
Our theme song is Force by HGST.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Thank, you Bye.
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