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Interview! Ready to challenge your assumptions about sex work and gain business insights from an unexpected source? Erotic Masseuse Annie Temple opens up about her 20-year journey through the adult entertainment industry in this eye-opening conversation with host Jeryl Spear, where she challenges stereotypes and reveals the business side of sex work. From her first night as an exotic dancer in Vancouver to becoming a business author helping others in the industry, Annie's story is one of resilience, entrepreneurship, and finding community.
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Listen now and discover how Annie Temple transformed stigma into empowerment through professionalism, strategy, and pride in her chosen career.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
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Speaker 1 (00:59):
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Hi, lovelies, welcome to Season3, Episode 6 of One Good Thing
Media.
This week, we're reaching backinto our archives, to a time
when we were new to the podcastgame and shared our show with a
(01:23):
much smaller well, to be honest,tea-tiny audience.
This week, we are playing aninterview with Annie Temple, who
opens up her career in the sexwork industry, the many
different hats she has wornduring her working career and
how she's turned her job into abona fide business.
Annie is also an activist, amother, a wife and a business
(01:48):
author who is teaching other sexworkers how to treat their
livelihood as a business,including identifying and
marketing their personal brand,safety tips and, equally
important, how to better managetheir money.
And through it all, she givesus a revealing look at her brand
of services, the organizationsthat focus on different types of
(02:11):
sex work and the connectivitysex workers have with each other
on a national and global basis.
Ready for a few confirmationsand a lot of surprises, let's
dive into Annie's world.
The interview that you are aboutto hear dropped on April 4th
2024.
(02:32):
It is part of a show that wecalled Scandalous Sexcapades.
You should check out the entireepisode, by the way.
It's a great one.
It's a great one.
As promised, I am here withAnnie Temple.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Hi Annie, Hi Daryl, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Annie wrote a book and she calls it Annie Temple's
Business Bible.
If you don't mind, I want toread you about the author.
It's very short, but I love theway it's written and I'm
assuming you wrote it correct.
Yes, Okay you're a good writer.
So this is about Annie Temple'sBusiness Bible and a little bit
(03:14):
about Annie.
With 20 plus years in andaround the adult entertainment
industry, annie Temple has doneit all.
She started as a stripper in1997 and she left adult
entertainment and returned to ittime and time again.
Her exploits include stripping,nude modeling, being a content
(03:36):
creator and more.
Annie is a tree-hugging loverof all things natural and also a
gun-owning gardener.
She is passionate about writingand bringing pleasure, erotic
power and prosperity to herreaders.
Bravo, annie, I love that,thank you.
(03:58):
So why don't you tell me alittle bit about your background
?
I understand that you've hadseveral adventures in your life
as far as careers go, and wewant to hear all about you.
Okay, sure.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I grew up quite poor and my family were kind of like
outcasts in my community.
My father's side of the familyhad a reputation, so I would
actually have friends thatweren't allowed to sleep over at
my house or come over to myhouse after school and that kind
of thing.
And my mom was very stable andmy dad even though, yeah, his
(04:36):
family had a bit of a roughreputation he was also just
wonderful person when he wasaround.
So it always made me feel very,I don't know, outraged maybe or
defensive of my family whenpeople judge them without
knowing them.
So from a young age I had a bitof a defiant attitude and
(04:57):
desire to stand up for thecauses that I believed in.
So that that kind of was mybackground.
And then when I, when I got outof high school, my mom really
wanted me to go to college.
She she saw me as someone whocould really make something of
myself and had a lot of hope forme.
(05:19):
So I went to college and I tookI didn't know what I wanted to
take, so I took general artscourses, but I was particularly
interested in women's studies.
Interestingly enough, it taughtme was that sex industry and
(05:50):
sex industry workers are part ofthe problem in our society that
they they play into apatriarchal society and
perpetuate abuse towards womenand that kind of thing so I
actually, yeah, I'd actuallybelieved that and was even
raised to believe that in someways by a very feminist mother,
although we never reallydiscussed that directly.
(06:11):
So when I moved to the big cityof Vancouver BC I live in Canada
when I moved to the big city ofVancouver BC, I quickly found
out how hard it was to get byfinancially on my own as a young
woman.
I was 22 years old, going on 23.
And just after my 23rd birthdayI decided to try exotic dancing
(06:38):
.
I'd been desperately lookingfor other work, but I wasn't
getting hired at any jobs thatcould offer me an income, a
livable wage basically.
Yes, exactly.
So I was paying my rent but Iwas finding it very difficult to
eat and I would steal some ofmy food and it was a very
(06:59):
desperate time for me.
I was very depressed and it wasjust a very difficult time.
But I'm the kind of person thatI'm impulsive and also I don't
settle.
If I don't like how somethingis in my life, I'll do something
to change it.
So the idea to become an exoticdancer came from a girlfriend
(07:22):
of mine who was already dancingand she had had suggested maybe
I do it part time just tosupplement my retail income,
because I was working forminimum wage at the time in
retail and this was 1997.
So it was like seven dollars anhour, and so she had suggested
that and she'd given me phonenumbers to reach out to if I
(07:43):
decided to do it.
But when I decided to call anagent to look into becoming an
exotic dancer, I didn't tell myfriend, I didn't tell anyone.
I just showed up at the agentor phoned the agent and then was
invited into the office thesame day and I went into the
office and he told me what Iwould need to do to start
(08:04):
dancing and I was able toactually start stripping that
evening at the Marble Arch.
It's a very well-known stripclub that's in Vancouver.
That isn't there anymore, butit used to be just one of the
most hopping places in town.
It was really really fun, funplace and I went down there that
(08:26):
night my very, very first nightdancing.
I was doing what was called VIPdancing, where I'd walk around
and I would offer a one songdance on a little stage for $15
to the customer and he would beable to sit right at the stage
and talk to me.
And it was.
It was like a full, a fullstrip down to nothing.
(08:49):
But it was not the distancewhere you're up way up high on a
stage.
It was kind of like a uniquething at that time for the
customers get up, close andpersonal.
So that was what I did thatnight.
I sold a number of dances myvery first night and made more
(09:09):
in three hours that night than Ihad than I made in two weeks at
my retail.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yes.
So I needless to say, I quit myjob the next morning my regular
job and I started dancing.
That became my full-time thingand I really, really loved it.
But my mother really didn'tlove it, so there was some
friction there, but it ended upbeing something that I continued
(09:39):
to do on and off over thecourse of my life, because I
went on to go back to university, have babies.
I tried a bunch of differentother square jobs over the years
.
I was a marketing manager for anon-profit that helped foster
kids.
I was also a marketing managerfor a motorcycle dealership.
(09:59):
Those were two positions Ireally enjoyed, and I worked in
transition houses and frontlinesupport.
So I have I have actually a lotof different experience in what
we call square jobs.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Yeah, but but I kept returning to the adult
entertainment industry because Iloved entertaining and because
the money was good and thescheduling.
Scheduling was flexible and youhave the opportunity, like you
were talking about earlier, towork for yourself and express
yourself freely.
It's a very I mean performing.
(10:35):
You get to come up with yourown music, your own theme,
design your costume.
It's so fun Like it's a verycreative work environment too,
because all of your co workersand colleagues are also people
who are creating their own showsand love performing.
So it's, it's.
It was an awesome job.
(10:55):
I loved it.
I loved it.
How long did you do that?
I did that on and off for, letme think, 1997 till about 2010.
So I guess that's 13 years.
But I continued to work in thestrip clubs.
Later I became a strip clubmassage goddess I called myself
a massage goddess because I feltlike I was too old to be called
(11:17):
a massage girl and and thenlater on, went on to do
in-person intimacy work, doingsensual massages.
So through all throughout allof that, I also had to deal with
health issues that I wentthrough over the years and a
very like rapidly changing body.
(11:40):
So my body changed so much justhaving babies.
Then it changed a lot when Ihad my large intestine, 75% of
my large intestine removed, andthen just last year in September
I actually had the rest of mylarge intestine removed and sex
industry with a rapidly changingbody and it's been very
(12:08):
interesting, to say the least.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Honestly, it sounds like you're able to overcome
whatever comes your way.
So how old were you when youfinally found your community,
where you felt like you belong,that you weren't being judged
and that sincerely part of?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
It didn't happen until I was in the exotic dance
industry.
That was really the first timeI started to feel like I
belonged to a community.
I think we all have a longingto belong to a community, and
that's why people go to churchand people join clubs and people
join gangs, and so when youfind a group of people that
accept you the way you are andthat can relate to you and
(12:46):
understand you, then that reallycreates bonds that other people
can't understand.
And I think that happens toowith people who, like, end up on
the streets.
You know, the street peoplebecome their family, and so it's
harder to get out of thatsituation, because that's where
your community, the people youlove yeah, so that's that's for
(13:09):
sure too.
Like, I started a website in2000, which was 2001-ish.
It was for exotic dancers andit was to bring us all together
onto one platform so that wecould share information, and
part of that goal, for me aswell, was to encourage them to
(13:30):
embrace their work and notinternalize the oppression that
was all around us.
Because I had done that, I hadfelt ashamed of being a dancer
and also felt some I don't knowwhat contempt towards my
customers, because I felt likethat was how I was supposed to
think.
I thought that I was should beashamed of myself and my job and
(13:53):
my work, and I also thought Ishould be disgusted by my
customers.
And when I was able torecognize that most of these
ideas around the sex industryfeminist ideas around the sex
industry come from people who'venever worked in the industry or
, if they did, they actuallywere sexually exploited and had
(14:15):
terrible experiences.
And you know, I differentiatebetween a sex worker and someone
who is sexually exploited.
It's not the same thing.
The difference is huge.
It's called consent, and so whenpeople who have been sexually
exploited try to speak on behalfof sex workers or read a
message that we're all exploited, that they're doing us a
(14:38):
disservice because the majorityof us actually want to do the
work.
That's why we do it.
We choose that work.
It is a situation of adults,consenting adults, you know so.
So that was some a huge kind ofrevelation for me, when I
realized that these were justtheories, they weren't facts,
(14:59):
and that I could feel empoweredby my work and that I could love
my customers and I could beempowered by it and embrace it
and not feel ashamed of what Iwas doing so.
That was such an amazingliberating feeling that I wanted
to give that to other dancersand make sure that they all knew
that we can actually be happywith who we are and what we do
(15:22):
and not have to feel bad aboutourselves.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Got it when we were talking in our pre-interview.
You mentioned that you hadjoined organizations sex worker
organizations, I might add and Ihave to be honest, I had no
idea that erotic entrepreneursor entertainers had
organizations.
Can you explain that to usplease?
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yes, for sure, you know.
It's so funny because the vastmajority of society wouldn't
have any reason to know that thesex worker community is
actually massive and it isglobally connected.
We have multiple organizationsthat work for the health and
(16:05):
safety of sex workers.
We have them in every singlecountry.
We have them across eachcountry, so we're connected.
For instance, in Canada, we'reconnected with every province
across Canada, and then we'realso connected with all of the
sex worker organizations thatare in the United States and
India and everywhere UK, likeyou name it.
(16:29):
We're all connected.
But even before the internet,they were holding huge
conferences for sex workers.
It's fascinating and mostpeople don't know.
But yeah, we've been doing thiswork probably for as long as sex
work has been around, which isthe oldest profession.
Some provide in-personfrontline support work.
(16:49):
So there are organizations thathelp people on the street, for
instance, who work on the streetas sex workers.
Some of them provide resourcesfor people who want to get out
of the industry.
Some of them are more aboutactivism.
Like, we've had multiplecharter challenges in Canada and
(17:09):
we even had all of the sex worklaws struck down, but then
another government came in andreplaced them with worse laws.
So this has been an ongoingfight, an ongoing struggle to
try and get the health andsafety and the labor rights that
we deserve.
Because they don't listen to usand silence us most of the
(17:30):
politicians.
There's so much politicalpressure, and because sex is
such a taboo subject and peopledon't even like to talk about it
, we just keep being pushed intothe margins.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I have to tell you that as I read your book, I was
really surprised at thecommonalities not only between
your industry and the beautyindustry, but also really any
independent service industry.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
When I was exotic dancing, I was quite young and I
only really saw it as a job.
I hadn't really considered mysex industry work as my career
at that time, and that's why Iwent in and out of it, in and
out of it, but when I returnedto it in my 40s I decided that
this is it.
I'm not going to leave againLike I want to make this my
(18:21):
business and I want to do it theright way, and so I reached out
to a lot of people I know whodo that kind of work and I got
some advice.
But I did.
I really just wanted a book ofhow other sex workers started
and ran their businesses andwhat worked for them, and so,
about five years into running myown massage business, I felt
(18:46):
that I was in a position that Icould actually write that book,
and so I put it together chapterby chapter, and then I thought
what's missing and I added a fewthings that I thought were
missing, and my favorite chapteris the one on on the mindset
money.
Mindset, manifest money.
But yeah, so it's.
It's really about wanting toempower sex workers to consider
(19:11):
their work a business, treat itlike a business and make good
money and enjoy their work.
So it's about, of course, beingsafe and screening customers
and that kind of thing andhaving a safety plan and all of
that.
But it's also about how can Iposition myself as a
(19:32):
businesswoman to maximize myincome for the target audience
that I want to reach.
If you're a sex worker and youread a marketing book, it might
be a little more difficult toidentify how you can apply it to
your own work.
So, having been in the industryof being a marketing manager
and then now being a sex worker,I thought that was an
(19:54):
opportunity to put it into wordsthat would reflect how you
could apply it specifically tothe sex industry.
That's fascinating because youhave to be safe.
You know a lot of people try tofocus on how unsafe it is to be
a sex worker and be meetingclients one on one.
But realtors do it,hairstylists do it.
(20:17):
Lots of people are doing thatand, yeah, it can be dangerous
if you're not careful and if youdon't screen people.
So yeah.
So there's lots of advice inthe business Bible for working
safely alone.
So for me, because I'm adisabled mother, I have certain
limitations and that is part ofhow I determine my brand.
(20:38):
So my limitations are thingslike I wouldn't want to be a sex
worker who goes on trips withclients.
I don't want to have overnightswith clients.
I I like to have no longer thanthree hours at the most with
one client, because I find thatI get too tired and exhausted.
So those are some of theconsiderations.
(21:00):
My workspace is in an olderbuilding with no elevator, so
people who are in wheelchairs orpeople who struggle with stairs
they are not going to be mytarget audience, and I also
prefer to work during the dayand avoid seeing clients who
might be partaking in substances, alcohol or drugs.
So I look for clients who areavailable during the day.
(21:26):
They either run their ownbusiness or they're managers or
owners of their companies, andthey can get away during the day
to get a massage companies andthey can get away during the day
to get a massage.
So when I took everything intoconsideration, I did my SWOT
analysis, which is I identifiedmy strengths, my weaknesses, my
opportunities and my threats,and then I determined, based on
(21:50):
that, who would be my niche, mybest target client, and for me
that would be a middle to ahigher, higher end of the middle
class men who own or run theirown companies and have, you know
, flexibility in their schedule.
They're looking for anenvironment that's clean and a
(22:14):
service provider who'sprofessional, and they basically
look at their, theirinteractions with sex workers as
part of their health.
You know just their manner,like like they, they see sex
workers like they go to see amassage therapist or they go to
get, you know, a pedicure orwhatever, like it's just to meet
(22:40):
their needs in a professionalway and it doesn't have to
interfere with their life in anyway or cause any problems.
And so those, those are my, myfavorites.
I like those guys and so I'mgoing to expect those guys to
send me a polite message whenthey want a book, to be
completely willing to send me apicture of their face if I ask
for it, which I do, yeah, I doit.
(23:02):
I do it for two reasons One,because I feel safer if the
client feels comfortable sendingme their face photo and so that
I can share it with one personwho, when I see that client for
the first time, person who, whenI see that client for the first
time, if anything was to happento me, then that client's face
picture would be given tosomeone who could give it to the
(23:23):
police or whatever, but I'venever had a violent experience
myself personally.
So I and I think a large partof that reason is because I'm
very picky like I won't evenrespond to someone unless they
they come across in a kind waythrough their, their messages
and they're extremely respectful.
(23:43):
If they try to negotiate withme or push my boundaries in a
text message before I've evenever met them, then I just stop
engaging and I don't take themas a client.
So there are so many differentways that you can figure out who
your niche is based on, whatyou're willing to do, what your
(24:04):
gifts are.
For instance, like there are somany different kinds of sex
workers.
There's dominatrixes, there'sadult film entertainers, there's
content creators, like onOnlyFans, there's so many
different kinds, right?
So you need to choose what,what is the industry that you
want to do and what kind ofclient do you want to attract,
(24:24):
and then you have to build yourown business around that.
So for me, my, my place wasalways meticulously clean.
I have high quality, unscentedproducts, and you know you just
get a very perfect.
I'm on time, always on time.
There's mood, music, there'satmosphere.
It's just a beautiful, calming,professional experience.
(24:48):
And so, then, the next thingwhich I wanted to teach through
the book was, once you figureout who you want to attract,
every time you get a really goodclient, you give them the
absolute best service youpossibly can and remind them
that you would like them to keepcoming back, and then build
(25:08):
your regulars.
Then you have a stable ofregulars who you know are safe
to see, and then they keepcoming, and that's how you build
your business In all serviceindustries and probably other
corporate jobs as well, butwe're focusing on service
industries.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
How do you balance your work life with your home
life?
I mean, you're a mother, you'rea wife, you're a writer, you're
an activist.
You have so many things goingon.
How do you juggle all of this?
Speaker 3 (25:38):
I mean when I'm going through my health struggles,
and they're really hard.
There isn't a lot of balance,to be honest.
But what I have found, and whyI prefer the adult entertainment
industry and why I've returnedto it over and over again, is
because it does give me moreflexibility, Because I can make
(25:58):
the same in a few hours that Iwould make in a week at another
job.
More time and energy to spendwith my family, to actually, you
know, put my children in afterschool activities things that I
wasn't able to do before andjust, you know, be able to be
(26:20):
present and be there for thepeople that I love.
That that's so meaningful forme.
And another thing is it allowsme to write, which I love
writing.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
I have one more question for you and it's an
important one, because everybody, but especially creatives,
eventually will have burnout andit is paralyzing and
unproductive and frustrating andall of those things.
You mentioned in your book thatburnout is also a challenge for
sex workers and you gave someadvice and I think really it is
(26:51):
universal advice.
Could you please tell ourlisteners how you deal with
burnout and to not dread goingto work?
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Sure.
So for me, burnout is, it's thedevil, and it comes very easily
, especially for, you know,people with disabilities or
health challenges like I have.
So I have to be very carefulabout where I put my energy.
Some of the things that I do isI just completely ignore people
(27:22):
that I get a bad feeling off of, or that don't message me in a
way that I would like them tomessage me, because I don't want
to waste my time and energy onpeople that are probably not
going to be a good client.
As soon as I start noticingthat I don't want to see any
clients or that I'm dreading anappointment or anything like
(27:44):
that, then I know I'm exhausted.
It's emotional labor when youwork in the adult entertainment
industry, because you'reconstantly trying to provide an
experience that an emotionalexperience for the other person.
So so you have to be so youknow careful of everything you
(28:07):
say and do, how you respond, howyou react to everything they
say and do.
And, depending on the person,it can be very exhausting
emotionally.
And so that can happen reallyeasily if you're burnt out, if
you've been working too much, ifyour health isn't at its best
or for whatever reason, ifyou're just feeling like you
(28:27):
just hate your job.
That's when you know thatyou're burnt out and the best
thing at that time, of course,is to take a break.
But sometimes, for financialreasons, people aren't able to
take a break.
So in those situations, I would, you know, encourage you to
reach out to your favoriteclients that don't drain your
energy and just say hi and seeif they'd be interested in
(28:49):
booking an appointment, and doit very respectfully and kindly,
with no expectations, or onlytake clients that you know don't
drain you and just say you'rebusy to the rest of them.
You know there's so manydifferent ways to manage burnout
, but really the best if you canis to get away and, honestly,
(29:12):
to have like holidays holidaysaway from work all weekend.
I think that that's the bestthing to do.
I think the best thing is toreally take actual holidays and
take time away from work tospend with people you love.
And I love how Grant Cardoneputs it.
He says don't don be obsessedwith your work and the things
(29:33):
that make you money and thethings that excite you and your
creativity.
Be obsessed with your spouse,be obsessed with your children,
be obsessed with the people thatyou care about and the causes
that you care about, and it'snot just balance, it's actually
you want to have success in allthe areas of your life, not just
balance.
You know so when you do need totake time off because you're
(29:56):
burning out, definitely investin yourself and invest in those
relationships and and use thatas an excuse to spend time doing
other things that you know feedyou and make you feel good.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Annie Temple's book, which is Annie Temple's Business
Bible, is available on Amazon,but you can also order it
through her website,AnnieTemplecom.
She also has another book outwhich I have just ordered, and
it is called Healing inStilettos a Memoir.
(30:31):
So that should be really good.
I'm going to dive into it verysoon, and that's another wrap
(30:58):
for One Good Thing Media.
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(31:21):
Until then, you know we loveyou.
Bye loves, Bye loves.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
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If you're under 18 years old or you're in the
company of children or sensitiveadults, please click out now.
Hi, lovelies, welcome to Season3, Episode 6 of One Good Thing
Media.
This week, we're reaching backinto our archives, to a time
when we were new to the podcastgame and shared our show with a
(01:23):
much smaller well, to be honest,tea-tiny audience.
This week, we are playing aninterview with Annie Temple, who
opens up her career in the sexwork industry, the many
different hats she has wornduring her working career and
how she's turned her job into abona fide business.
Annie is also an activist, amother, a wife and a business
(01:48):
author who is teaching other sexworkers how to treat their
livelihood as a business,including identifying and
marketing their personal brand,safety tips and, equally
important, how to better managetheir money.
And through it all, she givesus a revealing look at her brand
of services, the organizationsthat focus on different types of
(02:11):
sex work and the connectivitysex workers have with each other
on a national and global basis.
Ready for a few confirmationsand a lot of surprises, let's
dive into Annie's world.
The interview that you are aboutto hear dropped on April 4th
2024.
(02:32):
It is part of a show that wecalled Scandalous Sexcapades.
You should check out the entireepisode, by the way.
It's a great one.
It's a great one.
As promised, I am here withAnnie Temple.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Hi Annie, Hi Daryl, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Annie wrote a book and she calls it Annie Temple's
Business Bible.
If you don't mind, I want toread you about the author.
It's very short, but I love theway it's written and I'm
assuming you wrote it correct.
Yes, Okay you're a good writer.
So this is about Annie Temple'sBusiness Bible and a little bit
(03:14):
about Annie.
With 20 plus years in andaround the adult entertainment
industry, annie Temple has doneit all.
She started as a stripper in1997 and she left adult
entertainment and returned to ittime and time again.
Her exploits include stripping,nude modeling, being a content
(03:36):
creator and more.
Annie is a tree-hugging loverof all things natural and also a
gun-owning gardener.
She is passionate about writingand bringing pleasure, erotic
power and prosperity to herreaders.
Bravo, annie, I love that,thank you.
(03:58):
So why don't you tell me alittle bit about your background
?
I understand that you've hadseveral adventures in your life
as far as careers go, and wewant to hear all about you.
Okay, sure.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I grew up quite poor and my family were kind of like
outcasts in my community.
My father's side of the familyhad a reputation, so I would
actually have friends thatweren't allowed to sleep over at
my house or come over to myhouse after school and that kind
of thing.
And my mom was very stable andmy dad even though, yeah, his
(04:36):
family had a bit of a roughreputation he was also just
wonderful person when he wasaround.
So it always made me feel very,I don't know, outraged maybe or
defensive of my family whenpeople judge them without
knowing them.
So from a young age I had a bitof a defiant attitude and
(04:57):
desire to stand up for thecauses that I believed in.
So that that kind of was mybackground.
And then when I, when I got outof high school, my mom really
wanted me to go to college.
She she saw me as someone whocould really make something of
myself and had a lot of hope forme.
(05:19):
So I went to college and I tookI didn't know what I wanted to
take, so I took general artscourses, but I was particularly
interested in women's studies.
Interestingly enough, it taughtme was that sex industry and
(05:50):
sex industry workers are part ofthe problem in our society that
they they play into apatriarchal society and
perpetuate abuse towards womenand that kind of thing so I
actually, yeah, I'd actuallybelieved that and was even
raised to believe that in someways by a very feminist mother,
although we never reallydiscussed that directly.
(06:11):
So when I moved to the big cityof Vancouver BC I live in Canada
when I moved to the big city ofVancouver BC, I quickly found
out how hard it was to get byfinancially on my own as a young
woman.
I was 22 years old, going on 23.
And just after my 23rd birthdayI decided to try exotic dancing
(06:38):
.
I'd been desperately lookingfor other work, but I wasn't
getting hired at any jobs thatcould offer me an income, a
livable wage basically.
Yes, exactly.
So I was paying my rent but Iwas finding it very difficult to
eat and I would steal some ofmy food and it was a very
(06:59):
desperate time for me.
I was very depressed and it wasjust a very difficult time.
But I'm the kind of person thatI'm impulsive and also I don't
settle.
If I don't like how somethingis in my life, I'll do something
to change it.
So the idea to become an exoticdancer came from a girlfriend
(07:22):
of mine who was already dancingand she had had suggested maybe
I do it part time just tosupplement my retail income,
because I was working forminimum wage at the time in
retail and this was 1997.
So it was like seven dollars anhour, and so she had suggested
that and she'd given me phonenumbers to reach out to if I
(07:43):
decided to do it.
But when I decided to call anagent to look into becoming an
exotic dancer, I didn't tell myfriend, I didn't tell anyone.
I just showed up at the agentor phoned the agent and then was
invited into the office thesame day and I went into the
office and he told me what Iwould need to do to start
(08:04):
dancing and I was able toactually start stripping that
evening at the Marble Arch.
It's a very well-known stripclub that's in Vancouver.
That isn't there anymore, butit used to be just one of the
most hopping places in town.
It was really really fun, funplace and I went down there that
(08:26):
night my very, very first nightdancing.
I was doing what was called VIPdancing, where I'd walk around
and I would offer a one songdance on a little stage for $15
to the customer and he would beable to sit right at the stage
and talk to me.
And it was.
It was like a full, a fullstrip down to nothing.
(08:49):
But it was not the distancewhere you're up way up high on a
stage.
It was kind of like a uniquething at that time for the
customers get up, close andpersonal.
So that was what I did thatnight.
I sold a number of dances myvery first night and made more
(09:09):
in three hours that night than Ihad than I made in two weeks at
my retail.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yes.
So I needless to say, I quit myjob the next morning my regular
job and I started dancing.
That became my full-time thingand I really, really loved it.
But my mother really didn'tlove it, so there was some
friction there, but it ended upbeing something that I continued
(09:39):
to do on and off over thecourse of my life, because I
went on to go back to university, have babies.
I tried a bunch of differentother square jobs over the years
.
I was a marketing manager for anon-profit that helped foster
kids.
I was also a marketing managerfor a motorcycle dealership.
(09:59):
Those were two positions Ireally enjoyed, and I worked in
transition houses and frontlinesupport.
So I have I have actually a lotof different experience in what
we call square jobs.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Yeah, but but I kept returning to the adult
entertainment industry because Iloved entertaining and because
the money was good and thescheduling.
Scheduling was flexible and youhave the opportunity, like you
were talking about earlier, towork for yourself and express
yourself freely.
It's a very I mean performing.
(10:35):
You get to come up with yourown music, your own theme,
design your costume.
It's so fun Like it's a verycreative work environment too,
because all of your co workersand colleagues are also people
who are creating their own showsand love performing.
So it's, it's.
It was an awesome job.
(10:55):
I loved it.
I loved it.
How long did you do that?
I did that on and off for, letme think, 1997 till about 2010.
So I guess that's 13 years.
But I continued to work in thestrip clubs.
Later I became a strip clubmassage goddess I called myself
a massage goddess because I feltlike I was too old to be called
(11:17):
a massage girl and and thenlater on, went on to do
in-person intimacy work, doingsensual massages.
So through all throughout allof that, I also had to deal with
health issues that I wentthrough over the years and a
very like rapidly changing body.
(11:40):
So my body changed so much justhaving babies.
Then it changed a lot when Ihad my large intestine, 75% of
my large intestine removed, andthen just last year in September
I actually had the rest of mylarge intestine removed and sex
industry with a rapidly changingbody and it's been very
(12:08):
interesting, to say the least.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Honestly, it sounds like you're able to overcome
whatever comes your way.
So how old were you when youfinally found your community,
where you felt like you belong,that you weren't being judged
and that sincerely part of?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
It didn't happen until I was in the exotic dance
industry.
That was really the first timeI started to feel like I
belonged to a community.
I think we all have a longingto belong to a community, and
that's why people go to churchand people join clubs and people
join gangs, and so when youfind a group of people that
accept you the way you are andthat can relate to you and
(12:46):
understand you, then that reallycreates bonds that other people
can't understand.
And I think that happens toowith people who, like, end up on
the streets.
You know, the street peoplebecome their family, and so it's
harder to get out of thatsituation, because that's where
your community, the people youlove yeah, so that's that's for
(13:09):
sure too.
Like, I started a website in2000, which was 2001-ish.
It was for exotic dancers andit was to bring us all together
onto one platform so that wecould share information, and
part of that goal, for me aswell, was to encourage them to
(13:30):
embrace their work and notinternalize the oppression that
was all around us.
Because I had done that, I hadfelt ashamed of being a dancer
and also felt some I don't knowwhat contempt towards my
customers, because I felt likethat was how I was supposed to
think.
I thought that I was should beashamed of myself and my job and
(13:53):
my work, and I also thought Ishould be disgusted by my
customers.
And when I was able torecognize that most of these
ideas around the sex industryfeminist ideas around the sex
industry come from people who'venever worked in the industry or
, if they did, they actuallywere sexually exploited and had
(14:15):
terrible experiences.
And you know, I differentiatebetween a sex worker and someone
who is sexually exploited.
It's not the same thing.
The difference is huge.
It's called consent, and so whenpeople who have been sexually
exploited try to speak on behalfof sex workers or read a
message that we're all exploited, that they're doing us a
(14:38):
disservice because the majorityof us actually want to do the
work.
That's why we do it.
We choose that work.
It is a situation of adults,consenting adults, you know so.
So that was some a huge kind ofrevelation for me, when I
realized that these were justtheories, they weren't facts,
(14:59):
and that I could feel empoweredby my work and that I could love
my customers and I could beempowered by it and embrace it
and not feel ashamed of what Iwas doing so.
That was such an amazingliberating feeling that I wanted
to give that to other dancersand make sure that they all knew
that we can actually be happywith who we are and what we do
(15:22):
and not have to feel bad aboutourselves.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Got it when we were talking in our pre-interview.
You mentioned that you hadjoined organizations sex worker
organizations, I might add and Ihave to be honest, I had no
idea that erotic entrepreneursor entertainers had
organizations.
Can you explain that to usplease?
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yes, for sure, you know.
It's so funny because the vastmajority of society wouldn't
have any reason to know that thesex worker community is
actually massive and it isglobally connected.
We have multiple organizationsthat work for the health and
(16:05):
safety of sex workers.
We have them in every singlecountry.
We have them across eachcountry, so we're connected.
For instance, in Canada, we'reconnected with every province
across Canada, and then we'realso connected with all of the
sex worker organizations thatare in the United States and
India and everywhere UK, likeyou name it.
(16:29):
We're all connected.
But even before the internet,they were holding huge
conferences for sex workers.
It's fascinating and mostpeople don't know.
But yeah, we've been doing thiswork probably for as long as sex
work has been around, which isthe oldest profession.
Some provide in-personfrontline support work.
(16:49):
So there are organizations thathelp people on the street, for
instance, who work on the streetas sex workers.
Some of them provide resourcesfor people who want to get out
of the industry.
Some of them are more aboutactivism.
Like, we've had multiplecharter challenges in Canada and
(17:09):
we even had all of the sex worklaws struck down, but then
another government came in andreplaced them with worse laws.
So this has been an ongoingfight, an ongoing struggle to
try and get the health andsafety and the labor rights that
we deserve.
Because they don't listen to usand silence us most of the
(17:30):
politicians.
There's so much politicalpressure, and because sex is
such a taboo subject and peopledon't even like to talk about it
, we just keep being pushed intothe margins.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I have to tell you that as I read your book, I was
really surprised at thecommonalities not only between
your industry and the beautyindustry, but also really any
independent service industry.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
When I was exotic dancing, I was quite young and I
only really saw it as a job.
I hadn't really considered mysex industry work as my career
at that time, and that's why Iwent in and out of it, in and
out of it, but when I returnedto it in my 40s I decided that
this is it.
I'm not going to leave againLike I want to make this my
(18:21):
business and I want to do it theright way, and so I reached out
to a lot of people I know whodo that kind of work and I got
some advice.
But I did.
I really just wanted a book ofhow other sex workers started
and ran their businesses andwhat worked for them, and so,
about five years into running myown massage business, I felt
(18:46):
that I was in a position that Icould actually write that book,
and so I put it together chapterby chapter, and then I thought
what's missing and I added a fewthings that I thought were
missing, and my favorite chapteris the one on on the mindset
money.
Mindset, manifest money.
But yeah, so it's.
It's really about wanting toempower sex workers to consider
(19:11):
their work a business, treat itlike a business and make good
money and enjoy their work.
So it's about, of course, beingsafe and screening customers
and that kind of thing andhaving a safety plan and all of
that.
But it's also about how can Iposition myself as a
(19:32):
businesswoman to maximize myincome for the target audience
that I want to reach.
If you're a sex worker and youread a marketing book, it might
be a little more difficult toidentify how you can apply it to
your own work.
So, having been in the industryof being a marketing manager
and then now being a sex worker,I thought that was an
(19:54):
opportunity to put it into wordsthat would reflect how you
could apply it specifically tothe sex industry.
That's fascinating because youhave to be safe.
You know a lot of people try tofocus on how unsafe it is to be
a sex worker and be meetingclients one on one.
But realtors do it,hairstylists do it.
(20:17):
Lots of people are doing thatand, yeah, it can be dangerous
if you're not careful and if youdon't screen people.
So yeah.
So there's lots of advice inthe business Bible for working
safely alone.
So for me, because I'm adisabled mother, I have certain
limitations and that is part ofhow I determine my brand.
(20:38):
So my limitations are thingslike I wouldn't want to be a sex
worker who goes on trips withclients.
I don't want to have overnightswith clients.
I I like to have no longer thanthree hours at the most with
one client, because I find thatI get too tired and exhausted.
So those are some of theconsiderations.
(21:00):
My workspace is in an olderbuilding with no elevator, so
people who are in wheelchairs orpeople who struggle with stairs
they are not going to be mytarget audience, and I also
prefer to work during the dayand avoid seeing clients who
might be partaking in substances, alcohol or drugs.
So I look for clients who areavailable during the day.
(21:26):
They either run their ownbusiness or they're managers or
owners of their companies, andthey can get away during the day
to get a massage companies andthey can get away during the day
to get a massage.
So when I took everything intoconsideration, I did my SWOT
analysis, which is I identifiedmy strengths, my weaknesses, my
opportunities and my threats,and then I determined, based on
(21:50):
that, who would be my niche, mybest target client, and for me
that would be a middle to ahigher, higher end of the middle
class men who own or run theirown companies and have, you know
, flexibility in their schedule.
They're looking for anenvironment that's clean and a
(22:14):
service provider who'sprofessional, and they basically
look at their, theirinteractions with sex workers as
part of their health.
You know just their manner,like like they, they see sex
workers like they go to see amassage therapist or they go to
get, you know, a pedicure orwhatever, like it's just to meet
(22:40):
their needs in a professionalway and it doesn't have to
interfere with their life in anyway or cause any problems.
And so those, those are my, myfavorites.
I like those guys and so I'mgoing to expect those guys to
send me a polite message whenthey want a book, to be
completely willing to send me apicture of their face if I ask
for it, which I do, yeah, I doit.
(23:02):
I do it for two reasons One,because I feel safer if the
client feels comfortable sendingme their face photo and so that
I can share it with one personwho, when I see that client for
the first time, person who, whenI see that client for the first
time, if anything was to happento me, then that client's face
picture would be given tosomeone who could give it to the
(23:23):
police or whatever, but I'venever had a violent experience
myself personally.
So I and I think a large partof that reason is because I'm
very picky like I won't evenrespond to someone unless they
they come across in a kind waythrough their, their messages
and they're extremely respectful.
(23:43):
If they try to negotiate withme or push my boundaries in a
text message before I've evenever met them, then I just stop
engaging and I don't take themas a client.
So there are so many differentways that you can figure out who
your niche is based on, whatyou're willing to do, what your
(24:04):
gifts are.
For instance, like there are somany different kinds of sex
workers.
There's dominatrixes, there'sadult film entertainers, there's
content creators, like onOnlyFans, there's so many
different kinds, right?
So you need to choose what,what is the industry that you
want to do and what kind ofclient do you want to attract,
(24:24):
and then you have to build yourown business around that.
So for me, my, my place wasalways meticulously clean.
I have high quality, unscentedproducts, and you know you just
get a very perfect.
I'm on time, always on time.
There's mood, music, there'satmosphere.
It's just a beautiful, calming,professional experience.
(24:48):
And so, then, the next thingwhich I wanted to teach through
the book was, once you figureout who you want to attract,
every time you get a really goodclient, you give them the
absolute best service youpossibly can and remind them
that you would like them to keepcoming back, and then build
(25:08):
your regulars.
Then you have a stable ofregulars who you know are safe
to see, and then they keepcoming, and that's how you build
your business In all serviceindustries and probably other
corporate jobs as well, butwe're focusing on service
industries.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
How do you balance your work life with your home
life?
I mean, you're a mother, you'rea wife, you're a writer, you're
an activist.
You have so many things goingon.
How do you juggle all of this?
Speaker 3 (25:38):
I mean when I'm going through my health struggles,
and they're really hard.
There isn't a lot of balance,to be honest.
But what I have found, and whyI prefer the adult entertainment
industry and why I've returnedto it over and over again, is
because it does give me moreflexibility, Because I can make
(25:58):
the same in a few hours that Iwould make in a week at another
job.
More time and energy to spendwith my family, to actually, you
know, put my children in afterschool activities things that I
wasn't able to do before andjust, you know, be able to be
(26:20):
present and be there for thepeople that I love.
That that's so meaningful forme.
And another thing is it allowsme to write, which I love
writing.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
I have one more question for you and it's an
important one, because everybody, but especially creatives,
eventually will have burnout andit is paralyzing and
unproductive and frustrating andall of those things.
You mentioned in your book thatburnout is also a challenge for
sex workers and you gave someadvice and I think really it is
(26:51):
universal advice.
Could you please tell ourlisteners how you deal with
burnout and to not dread goingto work?
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Sure.
So for me, burnout is, it's thedevil, and it comes very easily
, especially for, you know,people with disabilities or
health challenges like I have.
So I have to be very carefulabout where I put my energy.
Some of the things that I do isI just completely ignore people
(27:22):
that I get a bad feeling off of, or that don't message me in a
way that I would like them tomessage me, because I don't want
to waste my time and energy onpeople that are probably not
going to be a good client.
As soon as I start noticingthat I don't want to see any
clients or that I'm dreading anappointment or anything like
(27:44):
that, then I know I'm exhausted.
It's emotional labor when youwork in the adult entertainment
industry, because you'reconstantly trying to provide an
experience that an emotionalexperience for the other person.
So so you have to be so youknow careful of everything you
(28:07):
say and do, how you respond, howyou react to everything they
say and do.
And, depending on the person,it can be very exhausting
emotionally.
And so that can happen reallyeasily if you're burnt out, if
you've been working too much, ifyour health isn't at its best
or for whatever reason, ifyou're just feeling like you
(28:27):
just hate your job.
That's when you know thatyou're burnt out and the best
thing at that time, of course,is to take a break.
But sometimes, for financialreasons, people aren't able to
take a break.
So in those situations, I would, you know, encourage you to
reach out to your favoriteclients that don't drain your
energy and just say hi and seeif they'd be interested in
(28:49):
booking an appointment, and doit very respectfully and kindly,
with no expectations, or onlytake clients that you know don't
drain you and just say you'rebusy to the rest of them.
You know there's so manydifferent ways to manage burnout
, but really the best if you canis to get away and, honestly,
(29:12):
to have like holidays holidaysaway from work all weekend.
I think that that's the bestthing to do.
I think the best thing is toreally take actual holidays and
take time away from work tospend with people you love.
And I love how Grant Cardoneputs it.
He says don't don be obsessedwith your work and the things
(29:33):
that make you money and thethings that excite you and your
creativity.
Be obsessed with your spouse,be obsessed with your children,
be obsessed with the people thatyou care about and the causes
that you care about, and it'snot just balance, it's actually
you want to have success in allthe areas of your life, not just
balance.
You know so when you do need totake time off because you're
(29:56):
burning out, definitely investin yourself and invest in those
relationships and and use thatas an excuse to spend time doing
other things that you know feedyou and make you feel good.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Annie Temple's book, which is Annie Temple's Business
Bible, is available on Amazon,but you can also order it
through her website,AnnieTemplecom.
She also has another book outwhich I have just ordered, and
it is called Healing inStilettos a Memoir.
(30:31):
So that should be really good.
I'm going to dive into it verysoon, and that's another wrap
(30:58):
for One Good Thing Media.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
If you haven't already, pleasegive us a follow, hit the
notification button and, if yourheart is so moved, leave us a
five rating.
It's an easy thing for you todo and it means the world to us.
We'll return next week with ourregular programming.
(31:21):
Until then, you know we loveyou.
Bye loves, Bye loves.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
One Good Thing Media is brought to you by our host
and creator, gerald Spear.
All things technical are byDavid Dodd and our announcer is
Robert Spear.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Our theme song is Force by HGST.
Thank you,
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