Terry Currier - Music Retail

Prepare to be swept away by the vinyl revival as we sit down with Terry Currier, the maestro behind Music Millennium Record Store and the co-founder of National Record Store Day. Terry's tale is one for the books, spanning a remarkable 52 years of twists, turns, and tunes. This episode is a treasure trove of stories that will have you reminiscing about the crackle of a needle on vinyl and the unmistakable scent of a new album sleeve.

From the pangs of Napster's upheaval to the backstage whispers of music festivals, Terry unravels the fabric of an industry that's as vibrant as the records it presses. We weave through Terry's earliest encounters with music retail, his fervent support for independent stores amid digital disruption, and the moments that sculpted his career into the legacy it is today. You'll be privy to the infamous Garth Brooks CD controversy that sparked a media frenzy and hear personal anecdotes that showcase the power of live music, like Chris Isaac's extraordinary fan engagement.

As we reflect on the shifts and shimmies of the music world, you’ll discover the ingenious ways Music Millennium danced through the pandemic, and why vinyl remains the soul of soundwaves. The episode crescendos into a conversation filled with gratitude, illustrating the timeless power of music to unite and inspire. Tune in for an episode that pulls back the curtain on the music industry's evolution and celebrates the tunes that continue to unite generations.

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Episode Transcript

Terry (00:00):
Hi, this is Terry Greer and you're listening to One Hour
to Doors.

Jon (00:11):
This is One Hour to Doors, a podcast about the business and
soul of the festivals andevents industry.
I am your host, Jonn Stone.
Every episode of One Hour toDoors explores the people,
issues, insights and trendsimpacting the enterprise of
bringing people and communitiestogether in common cause.

(00:31):
Our guest today is TerryCurrier.
Terry is the owner of theiconic Music Millennium Record
Store in Portland, Oregon.
He co-founded National RecordStore Day in 2008 and coined the
now globally recognized phraseKeep Portland Weird, earning him
the title of the father ofPortland's Weird Movement.

(00:54):
Throughout his career in musicretail, Terry has provided
on-site music retail servicesfor concerts and festivals
throughout the region.
I'm looking forward to hearingabout his unique perspective on
this niche corner of ourindustry.
Welcome to the show, terry.
Terry, you truly have led acareer and a life in music.

(01:15):
You are credited with so manyaccomplishments founding the
Coalition of Independent MusicStores, the whole Garth Brooks
battle thing, your founding ofthe Oregon Music Hall of Fame.
But from my perspective, themost unique and important point
is that so many of youraccomplishments have been not
for yourself but for and onbehalf of the music community as

(01:39):
a whole.
You've never chosen, from whatI can tell, the easy path in
your career.
What's kept you motivated allthis time?

Terry (01:47):
The music and the people.
It's a great joy to come towork every day.
There's new music coming allthe time.
There's local artists bringingin their albums on consignment
that I get to listen to.
There's the new releases thatcome out every week.
You know it's being aroundpeople that are very passionate
about music.
It's really exciting.

(02:07):
Right now is one of the mostexciting times in my life
because there's so many peopleunder the age of 20 right now
that are excited about the musicand excited about physical
goods.
You know vinyl and CDs.
They're keeping the independentstores alive.
20 years ago we couldn't getany kids in our store.

Jon (02:29):
Really.
I mean, I've acted surprised,but I'm thinking about myself.
Yeah, at some point I stoppedgoing into music stores for a
while, as well.

Terry (02:38):
Well, when Napster came along, everything changed.
The younger generation inparticular goes oh, we don't
have to pay for music, we canuse that money for other things
in our life.
You know, we can buy, we can godown to the mall, we can see
movies, video games.
So it really changed the wholelandscape.

(02:58):
We weren't getting any newcustomers and our old customers
were either downsizing orpassing away.

Jon (03:06):
You know that very same phenomena was playing out now
that I think about it probablyat exactly the same time frame
that you're talking about with anumber of major music festivals
.
One in particular that I wasinvolved with was the
Bumbershoot Festival in SeattleIn the 90s, the late 90s.
The festival had been aroundfor 30 years and it had operated

(03:29):
in more or less the same formatall along in terms of being
multi-genre and which genresthose were and which stages
featured which genre, based onthe popularity and audience size
and whatnot.
By the time you get into theearly 2000s, the audience was
changing faster and moreseverely than it ever had since

(03:52):
the early 70s.
All of a sudden, what hadalways worked wasn't working
quite as well anymore.

Terry (04:00):
When downloading music happened, computers and phones
became a big part of people'slife and I really noticed in the
young people.
They were staying in theirhouse, they weren't going
anyplace.
They were texting their friendsand sending messages and
talking, but they weren't goinganywhere.
And what I see right now is alot of these kids that are

(04:23):
coming in to buy vinyl.
They're stopping to smell theroses.
They want real things.
They want to go experience.
You know, walking over to theirfriend's house I'll see four
15-year-old girls in the store,each buy a record and go to one
of their houses and they'll allsit in front of the turntable
and take turns playing theirrecords and they'll all listen

(04:45):
to that.
That wasn't going on in the2000s.

Jon (04:50):
Yeah, I'm actually.
I'm very pleasantly surprisedto hear you make those
observations.
You're talking about a youngergeneration kind of getting back
to I'm using air quotes rightnow the way things were.
I'm wondering if, from theirperspective, are they getting
back to what's important, or arethey moving forward and they're
just discovering the joy ofmusic for themselves?

Terry (05:12):
A lot of people say things jump a generation and I'm
seeing this generation.
It's been a generation gapbuilder.
I've seen parents in the storewith their kids shopping.
I've seen grandparents in thestore with their kids shopping.
I've seen grandparents in thestore with their kids shopping.
I've seen grandparents andparents all of a sudden become

(05:33):
cool to their kids because theyhave a turntable in the basement
or they have some records inthe basement.
Oh, can we listen to those?
And what's amazing right nowwhich didn't happen 20 years ago
when kids just went to listento downloaded music is this

(05:55):
generation.
They're coming in and buyingcontemporary things, but they're
also buying a lot of music from40 or 50 years ago.
And to put that in perspective,in the 1972, when I started
working in a record store, thatwould have been like me buying
records from the 20s and 30s andI bought a couple things from

(06:17):
that era because I was wantingto find out about everything,
but none of my friends werelistening to music from their
parents' generation or theirgrandparents' generations.

Jon (06:28):
What was the first album that you ever bought with your
own money?

Terry (06:33):
Well, I didn't grow up listening to the radio and I
didn't buy records.
When I was a kid, my first tworecords I bought at a White
Front store in Burien.
That was we're Only In It ForThe Money and Cruising With
Ruben and the Jets by FrankZappa and the Mothers of
Invention.
Wow, I played music and I wasgoing to go to college on music

(06:57):
scholarship so I played all thetime.
But a friend of mine says yougot to hear this record.
My older brother has.
He played Frank Zappa and I'mjust like my eyes are bulging
out.
I go, you can do this withmusic, because all the music I
was playing at school was prettystraightforward Playing
standards or jazz orcontemporary music in a very

(07:21):
straightforward manner.

Jon (07:24):
Yeah, that's a heck of a first album, the first album I
ever bought with my own money.
I was like probably 10 or 11years old and I don't think we
even had a record player at thetime.
But the next door neighbor washaving a yard sale and in the
yard sale there was a couple ofcrates of vinyl and I had some
change that I don't even think Ihad an allowance back then.

(07:44):
I just found some change overthe first eight or 10 years of
my life, you know, and for 15cents I bought an album just on
the cover alone.
Like the cover with art was sostriking, I was like, oh, I want
to have this.
It's just like I was buying art, basically, and it was Cream
Wheels of Fire.

Terry (08:04):
Oh, great album cover, by the way, Great album too.

Jon (08:08):
Totally Didn't even realize what I had until probably five,
six, seven years later when Istarted playing guitar.
That's when I realized like, ohwow, this is, this is an
important piece right here inmore ways than one.
You said, Burien, are you,where are you from originally?
You said, Burien, where are youfrom originally?

Terry (08:24):
I grew up in Seattle and when I was 16, my dad took a job
down.
He was a manufacturer's rep fora sporting goods company.
He had to do Washington, Oregonand Northern Cal.
So we moved into VancouverWashington area.
So he'd be close to an airportso he could fly to these other
places but he could also becentrally located for driving.

Jon (08:48):
Yeah, that makes sense.
What was your background priorto Music Millennium?

Terry (08:53):
Oh, my first job.
I was 15 years old, got a jobat the House of Values in
Seattle and the House of Valueswas a variety store, kind of
like a very small Fred Meyers.
I mean you could get some foodproducts, you could get
appliances, you could getsporting goods, you could get

(09:16):
records.
And then we moved down this wayand Pay Less Drugs had bought
House of Values and I went towork for Payless Drugs.
I went to apply for this job inthis new shopping center that
was being built at a recordstore and at the same time a
place called Value Mart wantedme to come over and be their

(09:38):
assistant warehouse manager.
And I came home one day and mymom said hey, those people
called.
I told them you weren'tinterested in the job.
And I go OK, because I told herI wasn't going to go take the
Value Mart job.
And then I realized the nextday I go, who called yesterday?
Oh, that record store down inJansen Beach.

(10:02):
And I go oh my.
So I got in my car, I drovedown there it was like 10 days
before they were opening and Iknocked on the back door and I
just go hey, I know you calledyesterday.
I'm interested in the job and Ikind of let them know that I
didn't grow up around recordedmusic and I didn't know a lot,

(10:25):
but I was very enthusiasticabout music.
I started talking about myfirst concert I saw the month
before, which was Leon Russelland the Shelter People.
The guy goes hey, you want tostart on Monday, and that's what
happened.
So for 52 years now I've beenworking in record stores 12

(10:46):
years with a company out ofSeattle that had the store in
Portland called DJ Sound City,and then in 84, I came over to
Music Millennium.
The original owner of MusicMillennium had had it from 69 to
79, and he sold it, and in 84,the middle ownership was going

(11:06):
to file bankruptcy and shut itdown.
He didn't want to see his babygo away, so he assumed like a
half a million dollars in debtand I went to work for him and
we spent the next three yearsdigging it out.

Jon (11:23):
So 84, like how did he get into so much debt in the first
place?
Do you have any idea?
Conditions for the music store,those were still pretty strong
years, weren't they?

Terry (11:32):
They were pretty strong at that time because you know
you had things like MichaelJackson mania, Duran Duran mania
.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there was alot of that going on.
But a lot of record stores,especially independent record
stores, started going awayaround 1980.
It became more of a business Inthe 70s.
You could have a record storeand business was going up at

(11:56):
such a fast pace.
You didn't have to knowanything about business and you
could still make money.
I see business and you couldstill make money.
There was people that wererunning the company not owning
the company, but running thecompany.
That had substance issues,things like that.
And the guys that bought thecompany.

(12:17):
They knew nothing about therecord industry and the original
owner, when he sold it to them,told him don't even try to
meddle in this.
Take this staff, let them runit and you're going to have a
good operation.
Within the first six months,every single employee was gone
because they started meddlingwith everything.

(12:38):
So that changed the dynamics ofthem having a successful
formula going forward.

Jon (12:45):
That's very interesting.
There's a saying that I offerup quite often to clients Good
cash flow can cover up a lot ofoperational problems.
Great cash flow will cover upvirtually all operational
problems, and life is greatuntil that second that cash flow

(13:05):
starts diminishing.
And then all of a sudden you'relooking at a whole lot of
problems that you didn't evenunderstand were there all along.

Terry (13:12):
Yeah, all the cracks come forward.

Jon (13:14):
How and when did you get started doing music retail at
festivals and concerts and such?

Terry (13:20):
When it came to Music Millennium we would sometimes
sell at shows for artists.
I seven months and ourpresident said, hey, we're going

(13:46):
to do a festival.
We thought it was going to bethe Cascade Blues Association
Festival but it turned out itwas his own festival and we were
just the volunteers to make thefestival happen.
But we got that first festivalgoing and then the following
year we decided to have a boothdown there to sell product for

(14:07):
the artists that were playingthe festival.
Our first festival was John LeeHooker and then a lot of local
artists.
Our second festival got alittle bit bigger and we became
the vendor for the festival.
And one of the great thingsabout being a vendor at a
festival for us is we would getin contact with all the artists

(14:30):
and if they had any product theywanted us to sell, we would
sell for them and if they didn't, we would bring the product in
and we would ask the artists ifthey would like to come over to
our booth and do a signing aftertheir performance.
That became a very popular partof the Portland Waterfront
Blues Festival.

(14:50):
People just automatically wouldcome over to our booth after an
artist set Is the artist goingto sign and you know we would
try to get all the artists tomake a stage announcement that
they're going to sign, but thatdidn't always happen, so people
just automatically startedflocking to our booth to see if

(15:12):
they were going to sign or not.
And that kind of interactionreally is a great fan experience
.
And that's the kind ofphilosophy I use in the record
store too.
I want people to come here.
It's not a place you just gobuy records and CDs.
It's a place that you can havean experience.
The PDX Jazz Festival.

(15:34):
They're now presenting it asthe Portland Jazz Festival.
They present it as PDX JazzPresents the Portland Jazz
Festival.
But that's been going on for 20years.
Borders Music was the musicvendor for that festival.
In the very beginning I keptgetting a call from the

(15:55):
executive artistic director forthe jazz festival to come serve
on their board, and at the timeI was on multiple boards the
Coalition of Independent MusicStores, cascade Blues
Association, and I just startedthe Oregon Music Hall of Fame.
I kept saying, no, I don't havetime to do this, I don't have

(16:18):
time to do this.
And he goes well, it's only acouple meetings a year and I go
okay, I'll do it.
So I got on the board and oneof the first things he said is
Porter's Music isn't going to beour vendor anymore.
You want to be the vendor and Igo sure.
The festival back then wasthree or four days.

(16:39):
The festival this year hadexpanded to 16 days, but it's
normally around 10 days,covering two weekends, and there
can be as many as 100 acts invarious different clubs around
the city.
It could be in the largervenues like the Schnitzer.

(17:01):
We had John Baptiste in theSchnitzer this year.
We had a small venue called theOld Church that had John
Patitucci.
We had artists in a NewmarkTheater that holds 900.
We had artists in RevolutionHall that hold 900.
And we used about four or fiveother venues.
We will pick one venue a nightto do a show because there's

(17:27):
going to be multiple shows goingon in the city at the same time
.
And again, much like the BluesFestival, we have our product
out in the lobby and we try toget the artists to come out to
the lobby and sign and talk tothe fans.
It's another great event.
I'm also the chairman of theprogramming committee for the

(17:51):
festival.
After three years being on theboard which was the board term I
decided I don't want to be onthis board, I want to be on just
the creative side and I stayedon the programming side.
I can remember my first meetinggoing to a board meeting and
there was like 15 people aroundthe table and I was like the

(18:13):
last person on the right-handside of the table and they went
down and they asked everybodywhat function do you want to
take care of on the board?
And I was scared because therewas the financial committee,
there was the developmentcommittee, there was this
committee and then there was theprogramming committee.

(18:35):
I figured by the time it gotaround the whole table there was
going to be so many people onthe programming committee they
weren't going to let me be on it.
But, much to my surprise, thesepeople wanted to be on the
finance committee, these peoplewanted to be on the development
committee and I got to be on theprogramming committee, which is
exactly what I love doing.

Jon (18:58):
Nice it was meant to be.
I'm a little surprised by thattoo.
I thought you were going to sayeverybody wanted to be on the
programming committee.

Terry (19:07):
I mean that's the best.
Yeah, that's the fun stuff.

Jon (19:13):
Talk for a moment, if you would, about the coalition of
independent music stores.

Terry (19:18):
In 1993, in January 1993, four of the major distribution
companies out of six.
They came up with policies thatstated if you sold used CDs in
your store they weren't going tosupport you with advertising or
marketing money.
I typed up a three-page letterthis was before computers were

(19:40):
being used by everybody and Imailed it to like 125 different
major label presidents, vicepresidents, distribution
presidents, as well as all thetrade publications that the
music industry had at the time.
I stated that it was unfair ofthem to set policies like this,

(20:01):
that it was our record storesand they shouldn't dictate what
we do in our record store.
And it hit a nerve with thetrade publications.
They all wrote articles aboutit.
Most of the major label peopledidn't get back to me.
They were like what, what, whatare you thinking?

(20:22):
But it became a little warbetween me and the record
industry.
Over the next six months manyother record retailers around
the united states, uh, they readthese articles in these trade
publications and they reachedout and goes we like what you
are doing there.
You took a stance and, uh,anything we can do to help, let

(20:45):
us know.
And then it got to be June,mark Cope, who worked for the
Album Network magazine.
He called me up and he goes.
Garth Brooks just had a pressconference and he said he didn't
want his new album sold instores that sold used CDs.
Now this was just several weeksafter Garth Brooks said he had

(21:07):
more money than his kids andtheir kids and their kids and
their kids could ever spend intheir lifetime.
But here he was saying I thinkif a CD gets sold a second time
we should get paid again.
So I immediately we had twostores at that time we pulled

(21:28):
all our Garth Brooks t-shirts,posters, cds, vhs tapes off the
shelf.
What we could write up to therecord label for return, we did
immediately.
We all did this in a matter of10 minutes and that was on a
Wednesday.
The next day I go, you know, I'mgoing to buy an ad in the

(21:50):
weekly paper next week and I'mgoing to invite the public to
come down to the store to bringall their Garth Brooks
merchandise with them and we'llhave a barbecue.
And I was going to set up abarbecue in the back parking lot
and we were going to grillthese things.
And I made a press release andsent it out to all the local

(22:12):
media Over the next five days,every media in town had either
called or came by to find outwhat are you trying to do here.
Then, when we did the actualbarbecue in the back parking lot
, all the TV stations were there.
A lot of the other local mediawas there on spot.

(22:33):
I would grill up like a VHStape, put it on a hoagie bun
with barbecue sauce and take abite out of it for the camera,
and it looked great.
What I had figured out is forsix months I'd been going back
and forth with the industry andwe hadn't made any progress on

(22:53):
this issue that if I took it tothe public we might have a shot,
because the public didn't knowanything about this at all.
I came up to my office thatnight.
I did a talk show in Seattleand when I got off, one of my
employees said you're gettingtoo popular, I'm going to have
to be your manager, and I go.
No, you're going on the roadwith me, and he goes.

(23:14):
What do you mean?
I go, we're going to set up atour and we're going to go to
record stores up and down I-5from Bellingham, washington all
the way to San Diego, and we'regoing to do these barbecues and
we're going to try to createawareness on this whole thing.
We made tour T-shirts that had aburning Garth Brooks CD in the

(23:37):
middle of it.
We got all the stores all linedup.
We had the tour dates on theback of our T-shirt.
We got magnetic signs for thevan that said barbecue for
retail freedom.
We were wearing chef hats andwe had aprons that said barbecue
for retail freedom.
Forbes magazine actually sent aphotographer to that initial

(24:00):
barbecue.
Then we went about writinganother press release and
sending it out to all the majormedia in the United States
Rolling Stone, the New YorkTimes, the Country Music Network
, mtv.
We got it to everybody that wewere going to do this tour and

(24:23):
people started calling andpeople started writing about
this thing and talking aboutthis thing.
I remember we were up inBellingham, cellophane Square, I
think it was.
You know the Country MusicNetwork called and they go what
are you doing?
What are you thinking?
You know this was blasphemy.

(24:43):
You know, just on and on and on, when we were in Berkeley on
that tour, we were on the fiveo'clock news and we went to the
San Francisco Giants game thatnight with our chef hats and our
aprons on and there was a wholelot of people in that place

(25:04):
that had saw us on the news thatnight and there was people
going hey, it's the barbecueguys.
Yay, yay.
We saw we were making someheadway A few weeks after the
tour got done.
It was great.
The last place we went wasRockaway in LA and Dave Alvin
from the Blasters came down tosee us.

(25:26):
You know we had a lot ofsupport from artists and fans
all along the way.
We had some great pictures.
We went because Garth Brookswas on Capitol Records.
We went and took all thesephotos with all our barbecue
gear on and our van in front ofthe Capitol Records Tower.
Wow, it was really great.

(25:48):
Through that.
The next year I go.
You know, what I discovered fromthis whole tour is that a lot
of record stores have things incommon.
They have problems, similarproblems, and they really have
no way to talk to other storesabout it, because local stores

(26:08):
didn't normally talk to theircompetitors and share ideas and
competitive information.
But if we started this group ofrecord stores that were all in
non-competitive cities, have astore in Rochester, new York,
and a store in Louisville cities, have a store in Rochester, new
York, and a store in Louisville, kentucky, and a store in
Austin.

(26:29):
Maybe people would share ideasto make the store stronger
Because, also at that time, thebig box retailers were going
into all the major cities in thecountry and they were using
music as a lost leader to bringpeople in to their stores to buy
other things and in most casesthey were selling under cost.

(26:52):
And a lot of independent recordstores were going away and I
felt that this could be a way tostrengthen these stores if we
give everybody best practices onhow to do this and how to do
that, ideas on how do you workwith the record companies.
Does anybody from the recordcompanies actually come into

(27:14):
your store or call you?
And there was great recordstores like Ear Ecstasy in
Louisville, kentucky Never heardfrom anybody in the record
industry at all because at thattime they really focused on
their top 10 retailers or theirtop 10 accounts, and at that

(27:35):
time it was people like TowerRecords, musicland places like
that.
So the smaller guys reallydidn't get that much attention
because they could cover a lotof ground by just dealing with
those top 10 accounts, not doany extra work.
And so we put the coalitiontogether.

(27:55):
We met in San Francisco to seeif we all had common ground to
work with and we started it upin 1995.
Out of that, two othercoalitions happened In 2007,.
The three coalitions gottogether and talked about

(28:15):
putting together a day, kind oflike what the comic book stores
do there's Comic Book Day calledit Record store day.
And we went to the majordistribution companies and go
hey, could you give us somecompelling content on vinyl for
this special day that we couldsell?
Could you make these things up?

(28:35):
And the first record store day,which was in 2008, there was
about 50 titles we hired anational press person who told
two stories.
One is a hey, there's still1,800 record stores in America.
Because most of the media hadpainted the picture that record

(28:57):
stores had gone away or weregoing away.
It kind of banged the drum that, yeah, there are record stores
out here and guess what?
They sell records, actual vinylrecords.
If you look on a graph.
Records and vinyl have justcontinually grown from that time

(29:17):
.
It was kind of like therenaissance of vinyl, because
vinyl had really gone away inthe late 80s.
It also gave these independentstores a voice in the industry.
Our coalition, we got prettyaggressive and we went to the
record companies and we go hey,we want to work your records, we

(29:40):
want to champion your records.
Can you give us some marketingmoney or advertising money and
we'll work your records at allthese stores?
And we would just go to themwith particular records that we
felt were really, really goodrecords.
Some of those early recordsthat we worked were like the
second Ben Harper record.

(30:01):
You know the record hadn't beenon the chart at all on his
first record and we startedworking that second record.
The first week it jumped up onthe Billboard Top 200.
The next week it went a littlefarther on the chart.
The third week it went a littlefarther and the fourth week I

(30:21):
think it got to almost 100.
By that point we started doingbands like Southern Culture on
the skids.
I can remember calling VerveRecords because I'd got a promo
in the mail for a John Schofieldalbum with Medesky, martin and
Wood.
The album was called A Go-Go.
This thing just blew me awayand I called Verve up and I go

(30:43):
hey, this record is amazing.
How about if we work this atthe coalition?
My partner that was helping merun the coalition was based in
Alabama and he gets a phone callfrom Verve and they go hey,
this is so great, we're going toget to work this record with
you.
And it was the first time hehad heard because I hadn't

(31:04):
talked to him about this record.
And he calls me up and goesCurrier, what are you thinking?
I like John Schofield, I knowyou like John Schofield, but are
our stores all going to be ableto sell this jazz record?
I go, don, let's get you a copyby tomorrow.
You listen to it.
He called me up the next dayand he goes ah, I see what

(31:27):
you're thinking and I talked tolike John Schofield a couple of
years ago at the Portland JazzFestival and he says that that
record and what we did for thatrecord took his career from
playing 200 and 300 seater clubsto playing 1000 to 2000 seat

(31:49):
clubs.
That was a game changer for him.
Same with Southern Culture onthe Skids you know they had been
, they'd had some independentrecords and they had a little
cult following and stuff.
That record became theirbiggest selling record by far
and it took them from playingyou know little tiny rooms to be

(32:09):
able to play you know1,000-seat rooms, 2,000-seat
rooms.
So anyway, I guess we could goback and say Garth Brooks is
responsible for the renaissanceof vinyl.
In 1989, we put a stage in ourstore for our 20th anniversary.
The goal was to have 20straight days of live music and

(32:32):
at that time I just contactedlocal artists and I ended up
with 40 straight days of livemusic.
I was going to rent a soundsystem, but in the ultimate end
I go why don't we buy a soundsystem?
And it'll always be here,because then we can do this once
in a while in the future.
Well, I'm a passionate musicfan.

(32:52):
I started getting on thetelephone and calling record
labels and management people andsince 1989, we've done over
four and a half thousand liveperformances in our store.
Wow, we've had people like RandyNewman, Soundgarden.
People like Randy Newman,Soundgarden, Steve Earle,

(33:14):
Lucinda Williams.
It's a pretty amazing thing.
It gives the fans anopportunity to come and have an
intimate performance with manyof these artists and it gives
the artists in many cases anopportunity to do something a
little bit different than theywould do at their show that
night.
Maybe they got a full band thatnight, but maybe they come and

(33:35):
do a stripped down thing in thestore.
But it's a really excitingthing.

Jon (33:40):
Excuse my naivete, but was that a relatively new concept
back at that time, late 80s, tohave a live performance on the
record store?

Terry (33:50):
It really was.
I was standing on the floorwith the then majority owner of
Music Millennium, Don McLeod,and we were just thinking about
what to do for the 20thanniversary and I go, why don't
we do 20 straight days of livemusic?
He goes where are you going todo it?
And I pointed up at a mezzaninehe goes well, that would make

(34:12):
sense.
Point it up at a mezzanine, hegoes well, that would make sense
.
And we're kind of known as thepioneers of live music in a
record store.
It happens on a regular basisat a number of record stores
across the United States EasyStreet in Seattle, fingerprints
in Long Beach, twist and Shoutin Denver.
I mean there are stores thatwent to the expense of putting

(34:36):
in stages and nice sound systemsand made it a really cool
experience for their customersand for the artists that come to
the store.

Jon (34:47):
I had a band from 92 through 97 that was pretty
popular in the Seattle Portlandarea and we were playing in
record stores all the time.
So it's fascinating to hearkind of the origin story of
where that all came from.

Terry (35:06):
I mean before that we had a few bands play in the aisle
and including a Seattle band,young, fresh Fellows, and it was
always fun.
But when we went to this kindof situation in the beginning,
we even put a piano up there onour mezzanine.
You know, when Randy Newman'ssitting there singing happy

(35:27):
birthday to the store on your20th birthday, you pinch
yourself and go.
Is this?

Jon (35:33):
real.
Oh, that's borderline surreal,something like that.
Yeah, you mentioned the YoungFresh Fellows and by association
it made me think of RichardPeterson.
You remember Richard Peterson?
Oh, Richard! I ran into himlast fall on the street in
Issaquah.
It was talk about surreal.
I hadn't seen him in likeprobably 20, 25 years and it was

(35:55):
Wow, is he still playing?
Yeah, he's still playing, andhe actually the last time I'd
seen him is he had just lost agig.
He had playing piano in thereception lounge of KOMO Channel
4, downtown and for whateverreason, he had lost that, but he
was still coming in and he wasupset.
He was angry that the gig hadstopped.

(36:18):
So he was still showing upevery day and trying to convince
them to start the gig back upand it wasn't looking great and
it was just, it wasn't.
You know, maybe I just caughthim on a bad day, but that was
the last I saw him.
But then I bumped into him andyou know, like all of us, he's
older now but he was just in ajovial mood.
He, you know, richard, thiswon't surprise you, but he

(36:41):
recognized me from just ahandful of brief interactions
over the years.
The first time I saw him he wasopening for I think it was Love
and Rockets at the ParamountTheater.
I think it was Richard openingfor the Fellows opening for Love
and Rockets, or something likethat.

Terry (36:56):
Oh my.

Jon (36:57):
He just captivated me with his act and so I bought an album
from him in the lobby after theshow and he autographed it.
I still have that, but heclaims to have remembered even
that interaction, which I don'tdoubt.
Wow, yeah, he says he's playing.
He doesn't have any paid gigsbut he plays every day and of
course he would always like toplay more, but it was just a

(37:20):
good, it just felt good, it wasgreat to see him.
So you're talking about thepower of getting the artist to
autograph after the gig.
The greatest example I've everseen of that is Chris Isaac, and
I've had the pleasure of I'veworked many, many, many Chris

(37:42):
Isaac shows over the years thatman knows how to sell merch like
no one else.
If there's 4,000 people at theshow, which there usually was,
at least half of those peoplewould line up after the show to
meet and greet and get a photoand get an autograph from Chris,
and it would take sometimes theautograph session would take
just as long as the show took.

(38:03):
I mean, those were always longnights getting out of there, but
it was okay because that guy,he would just move the product
like no one else in the business.

Terry (38:14):
And it's a great experience for the music fan,
for them to have the opportunityto meet an artist that they
really care about.
It leaves a lasting impression,yeah.

Jon (38:25):
The only other artist I can think of that compares was
Dashboard Confessional.
When they were first reallyhitting, I had them in a show at
what's now Wamuu Theater.
Oh yeah, I think we sold 10,000tickets, 9,000, 10,000, or
something like that.
And I remember loading in forthat.

(38:45):
And a truck driver came upafter lunch and he's like, hey,
can I get a fork to help?
I've got some merch I need tounload from my truck.
Yeah, sure.
So I jump on a fork and go tothe back of his truck and he's
got a couple of pallets ofT-shirts and records and stuff
on the back.
It's like, all right, grabthese, I'll take them.

(39:06):
Want me to take them over tothe merch stand?
Yeah, that'd be great.
He says.
And then come back, I've gotmore.
Okay, great.
So I took two full pallets overthere and to me that was like
that was a ton of merge.
Long story short, I kept comingback and he kept unloading
pallets.
It was an entire 48 footer fullof merge.
Wow, I kept trying to reasonwith him.

(39:26):
It's like, hey, guy, you know,we don't want to take all night
having to load this stuff backup at the end of the night.
And he's like, oh no, you don'tunderstand.
We're not going to loadanything back up.
I didn't believe him, but no, Ithink we put like a pallet and
a half back on the truck at theend of the night.

Terry (39:42):
Well, I know in the 70s and 80s there was many artists
that were touring around thecountry and they actually made
more money off their merch thanthey did actually getting paid
for their shows, made more moneyoff their merch than they did
actually getting paid for theirshows and it was a way of
supporting the band.
So it's a really importantfeature.

Jon (39:59):
Yeah, yeah.

Terry (39:59):
How has the digital age impacted on-site sales at
festivals and concerts and suchWell, when people started
getting into downloading musicand they accepted that as their
format of choice, physical goodsat the booth would drop some.

(40:31):
However, there was also thissense of ownership.
Many people that weren'tplaying CDs or weren't playing
vinyl would still buy somethingto get was important to the
artist.
And that's what I see with theyounger generation that's
getting into physical goods.
Now they use streaming to.
I mean, streaming is almostlike their radio station of
today.
They'll listen to streaming andif they like something well

(40:51):
enough, they'll come by thephysical piece, but streaming is
still part of their listeningexperience.
But they want ownership in theband that they do care about
Going forward.
Right now it looks good forphysical goods.
I mean, physical goods are only10% of the business in the

(41:13):
industry because streaming isreally 90% of the revenue.

Jon (41:18):
That's the current ratio.

Terry (41:19):
Yeah, but for independent stores, vinyl has been a big
survivor for them.
In 2008, the first record storeday happened.
If you look on a graph.
I mean at that time vinyl salesnationally on new vinyl was
less than you know, 25% of 1%.

(41:41):
It was very, very negligible.
But if you look on a graph,this thing has grown and grown
and grown and the interest justkeeps going up.
We'll find customers in thestore that got rid of their
record collection years ago,that are now rebuying their
record collection.
And then there's the kids whoare building their record

(42:05):
collection for the first timeand a lot of people say CDs are
going away.
But I'm also seeing a certainamount of younger people buying
CDs now too.
Cds are much cheaper than vinyl.
But a lot of 16-7 hero kids aregetting their cars for the
first time and they're getting aused car.

(42:26):
Oh sure, it has a CD player init.
We got to go get some things toput in this thing, some
accessories.
Yeah, they're thinking thesethings are pretty cool.

Jon (42:37):
In terms of your sales of physical goods.
What's the mix look likecurrently?
What percentage is vinyl albums?
What percentage is CDs, so onand so forth?

Terry (42:49):
Piece wise.
In our store we're stillselling.
About 40% of the pieces that wesell are CD and 60% are vinyl.
Dollar-wise it's a littledifferent because vinyl costs a
lot more.
On the unfortunate side, therecould be as many as 2,500 record
stores in America today wherein 2007, there was only 1,800,

(43:12):
that will sell some kind of newproduct in their store, but most
of those record stores are notselling CDs.
There's probably only like 500record stores in America that
are buying and selling new CDs.
There's a lot more that areprobably selling used CDs.
It's been a problem for theformat because a lot of the

(43:35):
major record companies they'relooking at CD sales are on the
decline and when they run out ofa title do they make it again.
So we're seeing titles that goaway.
But on a positive note, thereare certain CDs in our store,
like Fiona Apple.
This last year on CD Some ofher titles sold, you know, 50 to

(43:59):
75 copies each.
Wow.
We looked at Jeff Buckley'sGrace album.
We sold 102 copies in the last12 months on CD.
Granted, it's a cheaper priceCD you can get it for $8 or $9,
so it makes it something thatpeople can really afford.
I mean you're looking at thevinyl pricing these days of

(44:22):
being somewhere between $25, $30a piece, you can find three
budget CDs for that.
So some people are looking atbuying their music.
They can get more music if theygo the CD route.

Jon (44:37):
Absolutely Just out of curiosity.
What was the pandemic like forthe store?

Terry (44:44):
It was scary.
It was really awful in thebeginning.
I remember we were going tohave a meeting on the 16th of
March to talk about adjustingour staff because our business
didn't seem to be as strong asit had been the previous year.
That meeting became, we lookedat each other and goes what are

(45:07):
we going to do about this COVIDthing thing?
And when we walked out of themeeting an hour later, we had
decided that the next day wasgoing to be our last day to be
open to the public.
We were going to have tofurlough a bunch of our
employees and we were going togo to short hours and do mail,

(45:28):
order and customer pickup onlyorder and customer pickup only.
On that Wednesday, the 18th, Icalled most of all my suppliers
and I go I don't know what thefuture beholds, I don't know if
I'm going to be able to pay youon time.
I don't know what kind ofrevenue is going to be coming
through the door, because we'regoing to be closed, basically.

(45:50):
And I just want all you guys towork with us because we don't
know how long this thing isgoing to last and we want to be
around when it's over.
And luckily, a lot of thosecompanies did work with us.
We were able to do 30, 33percent of the business without

(46:12):
the store being open and we hada very short staff.
There was a lot of work foremployees, you know, because
they were taking telephone callsall day and then going out and
shopping for customers or theywere filling online orders.
We did that for about threemonths and then we opened up the
store to a limit of 10 peoplein the store at a time and we

(46:36):
have a 6,000 square foot store,so that's not very many people
in there, but everybody could bewell spaced from each other.
The next thing you know,because the you know the rain,
snow and sleet that happens inthe Northwest, we put in awnings
out front because there wasalways a line out front waiting
to get into the store.

(46:57):
We even had some privateshopping experiences.
We were open from like 10 to 6,but we would have some private
shopping experiences for peopleto come in at 9 o'clock in the
morning or at 6 o'clock at nightand just privately shop in the
store on their own.
Everybody was afraid of COVID.

(47:18):
Nobody knew exactly how bad itwas going to be.
We were seeing people dying onthe news so nobody wanted to get
it for sure.
When it came to November ofthat year we started opening
till nine again.
And then in December I lookedaround Portland.

(47:39):
There wasn't well.
Downtown Portland was a ghosttown because most of the
businesses the office buildingsand stuff they all vacated so
they quit coming to work inthose buildings.
So all the little businesseswere going out of business
because they didn't have anybodyto support them and we had a
lot of protests going on in ourcity because of the Rodney King

(48:03):
thing.
Nobody wanted to go downtown.
There wasn't anything open pastsix o'clock downtown.
So I decided the only placespeople are going to buy holiday
gifts would be CVS, walgreensand Fred Meyers.
And so I decided to stay openfrom 9 am in the morning until

(48:25):
11 o'clock at night, still notthinking that we would even come
close to doing the business wehad done in the past.
And we ended up surpassing theprevious December because once
people got in with their littleChristmas list, like I'm going
to get this for my brother andI'm going to get this for my dad

(48:46):
, they got in the store and goeswell, and I'm going to get this
for my sister and my mom too,because here I'm in a shopping
space and I might as well get itall done.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't knowwhen you're going to get the
next opportunity.

(49:07):
Yeah, a time when familiesbonded again and that's where we
saw a lot of that youngergeneration get into vinyl, and
we saw a lot of families comedown during COVID and shop
together.
That was pretty exciting.

Jon (49:26):
As time goes on and COVID slowly starts fading into the
rearview mirror.
One of the more fascinatingthings to me about that era,
from a business perspective, wasjust the totality of the
unknowns that we had to address.
You were speaking about tryingthis and like, okay, that's not
doing it, trying thatexperimentation, and I

(49:48):
experienced the same.
I think everybody experiencedthe same.
We don't understand what we'reup against.
We don't know how long it'sgoing to last, and the only
thing that we do know is thateverything that has come before
doesn't work anymore at themoment.
So what do we do?

Terry (50:06):
Yeah, I mean I was doing daily deals of the day and
posting them on Facebook andother social medias.
Daily deals of the day andposting them on Facebook and
other social medias we werecoming up with fun things that
would get customers involvedTrivia questions, different
things that people would come toour Facebook site and see fun
things to do.
We even made a Music Millenniummask.

(50:29):
I got little bottles of handcleaner.
You got an order to go.
We're going to throw somesanitizer in there with your
order.
Different things that just gotpeople's attention that hey,
we're here.
And one of the great things thatI saw happen is I went to the

(50:49):
customer base and I go you know,think about buying a Music
Millennium gift certificateright now, send it to a friend.
We could use the money now.
I saw a lot of people buy giftcertificates and do just that,
just to support the store.
Oh yeah, we had customers inthe area.
In the area we had a couple ofcustomers that bought $500 gift

(51:16):
certificates just because theywanted to make sure that we were
going to be there and weweren't going to go out of
business while COVID was goingon.

Jon (51:21):
Now not to get into the weeds, but in Washington state
the law says that you have tocarry unused gift card balances
on your balance sheet for Xamount of time, gift card
balances on your balance sheetfor X amount of time and then
after that, if it's still unused, you have to send that money to
the state.

Terry (51:39):
Well, we didn't used to know that, but when we found out
that we now send money to thestate so it's similar in Oregon
then yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, they have a thing calledpersonal property too, and even
uncashed checks that we wouldsend to an artist that had
product on consignment and youcan't track them down to find

(52:02):
out.
Hey, you know, you still havethat check.
Can we send you another check?
If you can't contact them, youhave to give that money to the
state and it just goes on publicrecord.

Jon (52:13):
This sounds awkward saying this, but if there is a silver
lining to that whole era, it wasa time of enormous creativity.

Terry (52:21):
Oh, there definitely was, and you know that's something
else we did in the store a fewtimes.
We had some artists come downand we did some streaming.
Curtis Algato had a brand newrecord coming out on Alligator
Records.
Since you couldn't have anybodydown the store, I brought him
down and I did an interview withhim on Street Date and in fact

(52:44):
that day the whole city wassnowed in and his manager calls
and goes I can't go get him.
I don't think we're going to beable to do this.
Well, I called him up and I go,curtis, I've got studded snow
tires on.
I'm coming to pick you up.
You're coming to the store andI'll take you home.

(53:05):
But people like those kind ofthings.
The fruit bats did that.
It was really fun and I saw alot of artists out there the
poor artists.
They couldn't play in venues.
They hadn't.
You know.
They lost their source ofrevenue and many artists went to
doing online shows from theirliving room and people would

(53:29):
make donations to their PayPalaccount.
People would make donations totheir PayPal account.
Some of them were really,really creative, but it also
gave these artists theopportunity because they didn't
have anything else on theirplate to create music in their
house, write record.
And you know, after COVID a lotof these projects came out.

Jon (53:52):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I read in an interview that youonce did you were talking about
physical albums versus digitaldownloads and streaming and all
that, and you made a commentthat stuck with me.
You said that you'd consideredthe vinyl album to be perfect
for listening to because it hada limit of about 20 minutes per

(54:15):
side, and you were comparingthat with the average attention
span of a human being and Ithought that's a really
important observation.
That's a really importantconnection that I'd never
thought about before, and I'vespent my entire career in music
and it just never really dawnedon me that way.

Terry (54:32):
When we went to the CD format, you know you could do up
to about 75 minutes of musicand people started making longer
albums.
A lot of those tracks that endedup on the cutting floor, that
never made it to vinyl, were nowmaking it on the album, which
diluted the listening experiencebecause some of them weren't

(54:54):
worthy enough to be on a greatrecord.
What happens when people listento CDs being 75 minutes long if
they're sitting in their livingroom, you know, when it gets
into that 20, 25 minute pointI'm going to go to the kitchen
get a beverage, or I've got togo to the restroom All these
different distractions come up.

(55:15):
So they lose that one-on-oneconnection with just sitting
there and just immersingthemselves in listening to that
music.
With vinyl, each side wasanywhere from 15 to 20 minutes
and you could listen to thatmuch and not be distracted.
And then when you got up, youcould either go to the restroom,

(55:38):
go to the kitchen, come backand then play the other side or
pick another side of a recordfrom another record in your
collection.

Jon (55:48):
In that same interview you made the assertion that the
resurgence and the popularity ofvinyl is somewhat analogous to
the rediscovery of music as anart form rather than just a
commodified entertainment piece.

Terry (56:01):
Well, there's a lot of great benefit to a 12 by 12
album cover.
I can remember immersing myselfinto record stores the first
year I worked in a record storebecause I wanted to make up for
lost time and find out about allthe music I didn't know.
And I shopped other recordstores too.
I shopped Music Millennium on aregular basis.

(56:23):
Our store, dj Sound City,closed at nine o'clock.
I could get to Millennium by9.15 and they stayed open to 10.
And I would go in and readalbum covers back to back.
I can't tell you how manyrecords I bought because I saw
this great album cover on thewall and it spoke to me and I

(56:46):
would grab the cover down andyou'd look at it.
You'd look at the back.
Sometimes you'd go, oh, look atthat guest artist.
Joe Walsh is on that.
I know him from the James Gang.
I think I'm going to try thatout.
Or this person had producedthis thing and you read all
those things.
When you sat down and listenedto the record, you held that

(57:10):
album cover in your lap and itwas kind of a whole experience.
And I looked at the vinyl albummore of an art piece when it
went to the 5x5 CD.
The artwork was so small thatit didn't have the impact that
it did.
When you saw a 12x12 jacket onthe wall it was.

(57:32):
Also the CD was encased inplastic, which kind of took away
that feel.
When you're sitting there with agreat album cover, you take the
record out of the sleeve andyou go to your turntable and you
got to be real careful with it.
You got to treat it well if youwant it to play good again in

(57:52):
the future.
You know you're taking greatcare with this.
This is all in a part of theexperience With a CD.
You know I saw people put theirCDs on and throw the case in
the back seat of their car.
They just didn't treat it inthe same fashion and I would sit
down with like a good CDreissue that had a good 12-page

(58:14):
booklet inside and start readingit.
And the typeset was so smallthat you know by page three or
four you're rubbing your eyesand you're sitting it down
because I'm not going to readthe rest of this right now.
But with a 12-by-12 album andanything that was included in
that, you did immerse yourselfin that.

Jon (58:37):
What kind of advice would you offer to young musicians who
are, you know, just gettingstarted in their career, or
maybe not so young musiciansthat are trying to refresh their
career In terms of the value ornot of getting their music
physical music placed in thephysical brick-and-mortar stores

(58:59):
, is it worth the effort andthen what's the best path to go
about doing that?

Terry (59:04):
It is worth the effort and most good independent stores
will take product in onconsignment so they don't have
to outlay any money in thebeginning.
But then that product's in thestore, it doesn't necessarily
mean it's going to sell A goodyoung artist.
They've got to put work intowhat they do.

(59:26):
They may be able to do some ofthat themselves.
They may be able to surroundthemselves with friends that can
help them out.
They need to enhance theircareer.
They can help them out.
They need to enhance theircareer.
They need to promote themselves.
They need to get their music infront of the local press.
Now a lot of record stores dohave live performances in the
store.

(59:47):
We do a lot of local artists inour store.
In fact we've hosted recordrelease parties for artists
because they wanted to do it atthe store or they weren't big
enough yet to where they couldget their foot in the door.
In a club.
A good local band with a goodteam of friends around them can

(01:00:08):
make things happen.
You know, from putting postersup, flyers out, getting the word
out the term was brought uplike 20, 30 years ago Street
team is really actually havingyour own little street team to
help you do everything you need.
Sometimes artists are justartists.
They're not promotional minded,they don't know what to do with

(01:00:33):
these things, but within theircommunity there's usually some
people that can do those things,and when an artist gets to a
certain level, well, they maychange those people.
They may need more servicesbecause they're getting bigger
and bigger and bigger, and theymay go out and hire people that

(01:00:53):
do that kind of stuff on aregular basis to help get their
music out to as many people asthey possibly can.

Jon (01:01:01):
I get asked a lot by artists who are just starting
out how to get more gigs andI've developed this patented
response that I tell them artistor entertainer, choose one, and
of course it's got to be a mixof that.
Neither are mutually exclusive,but the point is you have to

(01:01:23):
understand at all times who'spaying for what and the reality
of it, no matter what we like tothink as artists, the reality
of it is that 99% of the people,99% of the time when they are
purchasing an album or a concertticket, that money is coming
out of their entertainmentbudget.
You know, if the club is hiringyou for that Thursday night gig

(01:01:49):
, the cold hard truth is they'rehiring you in an attempt to
sell more beer.

Terry (01:01:56):
That's it.

Jon (01:01:57):
That's the reality.
That's the way that it works.
It's not about your music, andthere's no offense, there's no
nothing negative meant aboutthat, it's just it's.
Entertainment is a business,art is a practice.
If somebody would have justtold me those simple words when
I was 19, I probably would havebeen a lot more effective in my

(01:02:19):
live music career.

Terry (01:02:21):
Yeah, and it's changed a lot, say, from the 70s to now,
with clubs.
I used to see local bands thatcould play four nights a week in
the same club and the clubwould be happening every single
night.
Liquor laws changed and youknow how much alcohol could be

(01:02:42):
in your body changed and a lotof people said, well, I'm not
going out all the time.
Now there's a lot of clubs thatdon't want a band to play at
their club if they've played inthe marketplace in the last two
months, because they want tohave the largest crowd they
possibly can in that club.
And it goes back to what you'retalking about selling

(01:03:05):
concessions.

Jon (01:03:06):
Yeah, yeah, just understanding what your actual
role is in the economy of musicis, I think, one of the most
important things that youngartists can do.
I'm going to hit you up with afew seemingly random questions.
What is your favorite sound?

Terry (01:03:26):
My favorite sound?
Yeah Boy, that's an oddquestion, because I like so many
different kinds of sound, justlike I like so many different
kinds of music.
I'm not fixated with listeningto rock or soul or hip-hop or

(01:03:46):
whatever.
I like stuff from all genres ofmusic.
If it's good, I like it.
If it's good, I like it.
The first year I started buyingrecords, which was when I
worked in a record store, in 72,I bought 665 albums.
I got out of school at noon.
I could work a 40-hour a weekjob.

(01:04:07):
All my money went to music.
I was buying Waylon Jenningsrecords.
I bought an African witchcraftrecord.
I was buying hard rock, softrock, you name it.
If I heard it and it was good,I bought it.

Jon (01:04:25):
Did I hear you correctly, you said you bought 600 plus
albums in 72?

Terry (01:04:32):
Yeah, from September 72 to about September of 73.
Wow, I mean, I was a kid in acandy store.
I mean I bought records everysingle day.
It's when you make those wrongdecisions in your life it goes
well.
I'm skipping buying lunch todaybecause I can get a record

(01:04:53):
tonight.
I'm not going to date anymorebecause that costs me money.

Jon (01:05:04):
I'm not going to take a date to a show, because that's
going to cost me money.
I can get more records.
Priorities, man.

Terry (01:05:08):
Priorities.

Jon (01:05:09):
There is Just out of curiosity do you have like a
large record collection at homeor do you just use the store as
your record collection?

Terry (01:05:19):
No, I have a large record collection at home.
It's kind of unwieldy.
I don't have enough time totake care of it and I've never
downsized it.
So everything I've ever boughtis at home and there's not
enough room for it, is at homeand there's not enough room for
it.
So you know, I have a 20 by 20foot record room with three and

(01:05:40):
a half walls of vinyl from floorto ceiling on it, and then in
the middle of that room is abunch of U-Haul boxes that say A
, b, c, that have another fiveor 6,000 records, right Sitting
in the middle of the room.
I probably have around over25,000 records and probably

(01:06:05):
equally as many CDs.

Jon (01:06:07):
Congratulations.

Terry (01:06:10):
Oh no, I would like to downsize, but that's a tough
thing in itself.
I always said I'm not going toget rid of anything because
maybe I'll get hit by a Macktruck one day and I'll be laid
up for a while and I'll be ableto listen to everything I have,
yeah, and.
But now that I'm getting olderI'm going.
You know, I'm not going to makeit through all these records,

(01:06:33):
and maybe some of these recordsneed new homes.

Jon (01:06:36):
Yeah, you're going to have to start listening here pretty
soon.
Do you have a—I almost hesitateto ask this for fear that it
might freak you out but do youhave a Desert Island disc?
If you could only have onealbum?

Terry (01:06:49):
Oh, I actually do Really, In my favorite list of albums
of all time.
There are no greatest hitsalbums in there, but my Desert
Island disc is a greatest hitsalbum and it's Sly and the
Family Stones' greatest hits andI just find the energy and the

(01:07:12):
messages and everything aboutthat record just speaks to me in
a good way.
We used to have a secondlocation and we closed it down
in 2007 because the recordindustry at that point was at
its bottom and we needed to signa new lease agreement and the

(01:07:34):
rent in the area we went justkept going up and up and up and
I go no, I can't sign along-term lease because it could
drag down the whole company inthe ultimate end, and this was
before the vinyl renaissance, soit didn't look good.
And the last record we playedin the store was Dance to the

(01:07:58):
Music by Sly and the FamilyStone.

Jon (01:08:01):
Wow, that's a great story.
You walk into an ice creamstore and you're going to get an
ice cream cone with two scoops.
What are your two flavors?

Terry (01:08:11):
Well, as you know, I wear black and I wear black all the
time, so there would have to bea scoop of licorice, and I'm a
sucker for cookie dough, cookiedough, ice cream.
Whoever came up with thatconcept came up with a great
concept, that's just.
I remember growing up and mymom making cookies in the

(01:08:33):
kitchen and always going inthere to hey, can I have some of
that cookie dough?

Jon (01:08:40):
So a scoop of licorice, a scoop of cookie dough, which one
goes on top.

Terry (01:08:45):
Oh, that's a tough one.
It's important though, I thinkthe cookie dough goes on top,
and I think the black licoriceice cream is the last thing that
goes in your body.

Jon (01:08:56):
I'll support you in that decision.
You're the second person thisis a question I ask everybody on
the show and you're only thesecond person to bring up
licorice ice cream.

Terry (01:09:07):
Well, it's the same color as vinyl, so maybe there's
something in common there.

Jon (01:09:12):
You could be the first person to call out licorice was
actually on my very firstepisode, producer of the
Issaquah Salmon Days Festivaland licorice and she's
originally from Canada.
She said that licorice inCanada is a very popular ice
cream flavor, whereas down hereI find it's really polarizing.
Few people love it and theneverybody else shuns it for the

(01:09:36):
most part.

Terry (01:09:38):
No, you don't find licorice ice cream on the shelf
at the grocery stores down here.
You know you got to go to thoseunique little ice cream stands
to get that.

Jon (01:09:48):
Robin said that in Canada licorice is commonly swirled
with like an orange sherbet andit's called tiger tail.

Terry (01:09:56):
You know, I got to try that out.
I do like orange sherbet too,so maybe that's a new
combination.

Jon (01:10:03):
Apparently, that's what's going on up north.
Terry, I want to thank you formaking the time to sit down and
have a conversation this morning.

Terry (01:10:14):
Good talking to you, Jon All call, One Hour To Doors.