July 23, 2025 • 33 mins
A brilliant mathematician's journey from atheism to faith might seem unlikely, but Douglas L.'s story reveals how science itself led him to believe in God. As he puts it: "The truth will set you free."
Douglas grew up as a self-described nerd who loved mathematics for its reliability—"You add two plus two, you always get four. You can count on two plus two. You can't count on people sometimes." This love for certainty and logic led him to MIT, where he excelled in theoretical mathematics. Life took an unexpected turn when he became a lawyer and eventually created the NFL's first 401k plan, managing benefit plans worth billions that support players through injuries, disabilities, and retirement.
But beneath these professional accomplishments lies a fascinating spiritual journey. Douglas reveals how scientific evidence, rather than undermining his atheism, actually demolished it. The turning point began when his wife wanted their son baptized. Though initially reluctant, Douglas noticed something in the church community that he wanted. Being an MIT graduate, he approached faith intellectually, examining scientific evidence—and was overwhelmed by what he found.
The most compelling evidence? The incredible complexity of DNA, which Douglas describes as "advanced digital code" far more sophisticated than anything humans have created. "Bill Gates said DNA is like computer code, only far more advanced than anything we've ever built," he notes. The mathematical probability of such intricate code arising by chance is virtually impossible, challenging the foundation of atheistic beliefs about life's origins.
Douglas's passion for sharing this evidence led him to write books including "Counting to God" and his latest, "The God Proofs"—a graphic novel aimed at younger readers. His mission stems from personal experience: "I wanted to spare people from what I had been through—so many years of thinking that life was meaningless."
Whether discussing the ENCODE project that revealed multiple layers of information in human DNA or addressing why bad things happen to good people, Douglas approaches life's biggest questions with both scientific rigor and compassionate wisdom. His unique perspective demolishes the false dichotomy between faith and science, showing how honest scientific inquiry can lead to profound spiritual insight.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome back to one on one with Mr you.
Of course, I am your host, mrYu, in studio with us today.
Douglas L.
He's an author, lawyer,mathematician, author of many
books, including the Proofs ofGod.
How are you Doug Good to haveyou in the house, man.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm delighted to be here Doing great Good day.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Same here.
Man, thanks for having me.
We had some incredible times inour pre-interview chat.
It was insightful, to say theleast.
I'm excited about our listenersand viewers getting to hear
some of your story and whatyou've experienced.
So we'll try to make these 30minutes count or so.
So excited about this, man.
But I want to kind of start offlike we always do with all of
our guests.
I always ask them I think it'san easy question, but sometimes
(00:59):
there's layers to it.
Tell us about your upbringingand your childhood.
Where's Doug from?
What got you from there to here?
Tell us about your upbringingand childhood.
Where's Doug from?
What got you?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
from there to here.
Great, I'm from Connecticut,grew up in a Christian family
and but I was just the nerdiestkid you could imagine.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
You know, I always thought if you looked up the
definition of the word in theword nerd in the dictionary.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
You know they have my picture there.
I mean, I was a loner, um, uh,and really into science and
mathematics.
I just love math, you know.
You know you add two plus two,you always get four.
You could count on two plus two.
You can't count on peoplesometimes.
So, uh, when I was, I reallydevoured books on science and I
(01:49):
remember I think it was a highschool book that suggested life
could have started in some dirtypond, you know, eons ago.
And when I read that I thought,well, it's in a high school book
, right, it's got to be true.
And it started me to turn awayfrom God.
So I began to think that thisGod stuff was nonsense.
(02:12):
You know, it's just for stupidpeople, ignorant people.
The smart money was on.
You know, atheism and science,we'll talk about what that means
.
So I became an atheist at thattime.
And when my son was born, mywife wanted to get him baptized
and I said, yes, dear, I didn'twant that fight.
So we went to church and I feltthose people had something.
(02:35):
You know something.
I wanted something a lot morevaluable than money or prestige,
whatever you want to call that.
So but I told myself you know,doug, you're an MIT grad, you
got to think this through, let'snot get swept up in some
emotion, you know.
And so I started looking intothe evidence for God on a
(03:01):
scientific basis, and what Ifound is overwhelmed me.
And now that I'm retired frommy career as a lawyer, I'm
having so much fun trying tojust spread the word, because
people know a lot of these factsbut they just don't think about
it.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
That makes a lot of sense.
Man, I love the fact thatyou're on this journey.
I'm not against that.
People think that, oh, most ofthe time this is a cult
mentality.
So, hint, hint, if you knowsomething about what I'm about
to say, it might be in asituation like that.
But you know, asking questionsand questioning God and
(03:41):
questioning the Word.
God doesn't have a problem withthat.
I'm not speaking for God.
He doesn't have a problem withyou questioning why he wants you
to do things or why you're in aplace in your life that you're
on.
He doesn't have a problem withthat.
It's not the question asking asan issue.
So you're doing that and you'reliving your life out that way.
(04:01):
I think I understood from youthat you were obviously a former
atheist and you spent 30 years,or you spent more than that,
trying to reconcile God, scienceand the things that go into
both.
I respect your journey but,number one, if I hadn't said
that already, I really respectthe journey.
You're still asking questions,you're still seeking, you're
(04:21):
still getting information andevidence, and you found a lot of
empirical evidence to supportyour beliefs.
Tell me what, why you think theidea of science appeals to
certain people.
If you know what I mean, why doyou think that's so appealing?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
That's a great question, I know, not sure I
have a great answer to, but alot of people think science is
contrary to god.
You know, I mean that's.
I think it's the most dangerousmyth of our uh, of our current
age and uh, and the reason theythink that is because there's a
lot of people in universitieswith scientists, call themselves
(04:59):
scientists, who will tell youthey don't believe in god.
You know, you'll hear I believein science, which is nonsense.
Since when does science orreligion?
Science is just figuring thingsout.
That's all.
It is Experiments.
You do experiments, you look atit, you try to reason it, you
try to.
You know, a famous guy, richardFeynman, once said if it
(05:22):
disagrees with experiment, it'swrong.
That's the definition ofscience.
Okay, science isn't some sortof religion.
You don't worship science.
It's a process, and the process, what I found, will get you to
believe that the universe wascreated and designed and that
life was created and designed.
(05:43):
And isn't that what the Bibletells us about God?
I mean, that's, it's not.
It tells us a lot more thanthat, but that's pretty good
starting point, and this rightout of science.
So you know, I, a lot of people, just don't want to believe in
a God.
I get it, they can do what theywant, you know.
But uh, it's not true thatscience is contrary to God,
(06:03):
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I mean it's not true that science is contrary to God
Absolutely.
I mean it's actually literallydefined as the study of
something observed.
It's like we believe in so manythings that we can't see.
So I'm amazed that areas likefaith in God are on the
exemption list.
We don't believe in gravity,because we know if you jump off
(06:26):
a building, gravity is going toplay a part and it's going to be
a law.
It's a law you can't see, butall of us can see the impact
once you hit that ground.
So it's amazing to me that wekind of feel so easy to pick and
choose what invisible laws wewant to believe in and which
ones we don't.
It's very, very strange.
I love that you have such adesire for science and math.
(06:47):
I wonder if you watched theshow Big Bang Theory at all.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Oh, I love that show.
I love that show.
You know Sheldon's got thismodel of the DNA atom.
You seen that I actually boughtthat to put it in my office.
At one time we moved houses.
My wife made me get rid of it.
I donated it.
But that DNA model, man, that'sthe coolest.
(07:12):
I love the Big Bang TheoryGreat show.
So much fun you can have withscience.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I loved it for a lot of different reasons.
I won't spend too much time onit, but I did really enjoy the
show.
I had to stop watching for someother reasons, that things were
being kind of put into the showthat I didn't really feel great
about, probably because that'swhat I did, but I loved it
because it was like people whowere like really, really smart
but they were like dumb asbricks.
(07:42):
I'm like, wow, it's such aweird dichotomy.
But when you talk about lovingscience and math, it reminds me
of some of my nerddom, which I'mtotally cool with owning.
I wasn't a theoreticalphysicist like they are, but I
was really into things likescience and math and stuff.
What drew you to become alawyer?
It feels like they're connected, but they're not.
(08:02):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, what made you decide tobe a lawyer?
What made you decide to be aprofessional?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well, you know, it comes a time in your life where
you want to eat and, being atheoretical mathematician, you
know your parents are notfeeding you.
You've got to find your own waysomehow.
So you know, I call it thelobster factor.
I make a joke out of it.
I like to eat lobster andlobster costs a little bit of
money.
And I went to law school to makea living.
(08:28):
I went to math graduate schoolfor three years and I kind of
fell into that because this isjust the truth.
Take it however you want totake it.
But it was really easy, foreasy for me, okay, and I'm kind
of basically, at heart, I stillhave to fight with my laziness.
(08:48):
So it was really easy for me.
I was very good at math.
I cruised through mit, graduatedearly, straight a's in every
math course and, uh, but thenyou know, I was in law school.
What are you really going to dofor a living?
What are you going to do whenyou grow up?
And some of my law school oneof my law school friends, one of
(09:10):
my math graduate school friendshad gone to law school and said
, hey, it's not that hard.
So I figured, hey, I could dothat, and so I went to law
school.
I had to look up every otherword in the dictionary to get
started, because I alwaysskipped, slept right through my
humanities classes at MIT.
You know, I mean I just wantmath, but it's really worked out
(09:31):
super because, if you do, I'vemostly done pensions and
benefits.
You know technical governmentrules and logic gets you a long
way.
Clearness of thought, clearnessof expressing an argument.
And so, yeah, I took a turnmaybe a wrong turn became a
(09:53):
lawyer no lawyer, joe, but youknow it's really helped my
journey, because I think in mybooks I can bring a clarity of
writing that I wouldn't have ifI hadn't been a lawyer.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
I want to get into that.
I want to talk a little bitabout some of the work you did
with the corporations andpensions and stuff.
I really want to get into thata little bit.
But in being a lawyer I kind ofimagine that it provides you
with a certain set of skills, aspecific set of skills to kind
of help you in yourunderstanding and your research,
even your conversations withother people about God.
(10:27):
Tell me how you sort of twothings interconnect them.
If they did.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Well, one of the things you learn in law school
is how to write effectively.
Cut out a lot of the extrabaggage words.
Another thing you learn is whenyou're trying to persuade
somebody of something, hit themwith your best shot, okay.
Or if you got two or three bestshots, hit them with that first
.
Don't give them a list of 25things you know.
(10:55):
Hit them with your best shot,and that's what I've tried to do
in my books.
It's uh, so it's not directlyrelated, but but it's.
It's useful skills, you know,just being able, plus life
experience.
What's important, what's not?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
no, that's absolutely great, is it?
Do you find it helpful to be aspeaker as well?
Having been a lawyer and havinglearned how to articulate
points and kind of speaking infront of people, have you found
it to be helpful as a publicspeaker?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
I.
I find it to be helpful.
Yeah, I mean I don't do a lotof public speaking a few times a
year, but I'm fine with it andsometimes I enjoy it.
You know I like to tell jokes,get the audience going.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
That's like you're totally into it.
Okay, I love this.
All right, so you became aprominent attorney.
We kind of talked about that alittle bit and I found it really
, really interesting.
I asked you about it in ourpre-interview and asked if you
were okay with us talking aboutit a little bit.
But you talked about how youmade the first 401k plan in
professional sports.
I thought that was astoundingto me, not only because I'm a
(12:04):
big, uh sports fan, but alsobecause I, the people who are in
my usual sports circles allthey care about is their team
and how their team does, and youdon't really think about the
player, the player's family.
They get hurt on the field.
Are they covered?
Do they have any guarantees inplace?
If they get injured late in theyear, in the contract year,
(12:27):
what happens to them?
So all the things I care about,but you may not speak to all
those things, but tell me aboutyour experiences making that
first 401k plan.
How'd it come about?
How'd you get the awesomeassignment to do that?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
You know it had to be the hand of God, because who
would have thought that a nerdyguy like me with absolutely no
athletic talent would be for 30years the head lawyer for all
the benefit plans of the NFL?
Wow, they had a technicalproblem that I was right on top
of the union, did negotiatingwith the league in the early
(13:01):
1990s and once I solved that, tospeed up the story, basically
Gene Upshaw, hall of Famer, putme in as the head benefit lawyer
, firing two other law firms.
So uh and uh, and it's been aride.
I could.
You know I'm into stories, uh,but I've seen the underside of
(13:27):
the nfl.
You say the guys get hurt, theguys who get carried off the
field.
But I did draft a 401k plan forthe players, the first one I did
.
Other created other novel playplans.
We have a plan for guys withhead injuries.
We have all sorts of disabilitybenefits that are.
Now we're paying out $35million a month.
(13:49):
Oh my, now, now we have, wehave.
I say we.
It's not my money, but I helpedset it up so I take partial
pride in it, forgive me.
Yeah, we have $14 billion inassets that has to be spent on
players through pensions and allthese savings plans and other
(14:13):
things I've set up.
So you know, they have shortcareers, so giving them a good
benefits package is very, veryimportant, and the union helped
on that so, and managementrealized it was important too.
It ended up being a jointeffort.
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
So so that you know so that allowed me to afford
lobster dinners occasionally,occasionally, I'm sure more than
you want to say.
Though I also want to say I'mpersuaded by Congress to kind of
help out with creating bigchanges in employee benefit laws
(14:55):
.
That's not like pioneer stuff,man.
Are you catching the magnitude?
I mean, this is amazing.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, I got the law changed a few times.
You know, one of the clients Iworked on was a big union
Western Conference of Teamsterstruck drivers on the West.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Oh, my goodness OK.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Three hundred thousand plus employees.
And this is back in the 80s andthere are a lot.
That time said you couldn'tdivide up a pension on divorce
and but the California courtswere doing it, so the union was
always in.
It was a mess and I got thehelp to get the federal law
changed.
(15:39):
So oh my goodness yeah, I wrotethe statute of.
You know what happens topensions and divorce.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Anyhow, yeah, I want to go into the union department
like I don't keep the trainmoving.
I mean, I'm into it because mymother she's been a longtime
union worker when she wasworking full time and she was
like she relied on them to haveher back in every way, shape and
(16:09):
form as it pertains to her andthe establishment she worked for
.
I'm like, do you have anyinsights into that time, without
devoting anything confidentialor anything, just kind of just
giving the insights about thetime involved with the union,
because there's always so manythings that were going on.
He said when you say Teamsters,I'm thinking about stuff from
(16:30):
gangster movies.
I'm just being honest about it.
When I hear Teamsters, whatcomes to mind is Al Capone and
the Untouchables.
That's what I think aboutimmediately, but your view of it
might be different.
But you know your time with theunions.
Did you see anything there thatyou say you know, wow, this is,
I'm involved with this orthere's an opportunity here for
(16:50):
something, anything like that,that you think might be valuable
to?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
share.
I will say that the unionpeople at the NFL have been
fantastic, as has the managementof the NFL, but I've been
involved with a couple of highprofile unions, or started to
get involved, and I couldn'twait to run for the door.
Ok, just just put it that way.
There's some people you do notwant to work with because you
(17:14):
can tell they don't want to playthe game by the door.
Okay, just just put it that way.
There's some people you do notwant to work with because you
can tell they don't want to playthe game by the rules and I'm
not going to help anybodyviolate federal law.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Fair, and where and where you should.
I love this.
I love this.
I love this.
We talked a lot about yourfaith as well, and I mean half
of them were just silenced inthere indulging in the Big Bang
Theory stuff, because that wasjust fun for me.
I love the show and I don'thave many friends who watch it,
(17:42):
so I'm like, ok, I got one now.
Thanks, doug.
Where do you see the biggestconflict in science and religion
?
Where do you see the biggestconflict there?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I don't see any conflict.
Okay, fair enough.
I think science supports belieftotally.
I think there's a lot ofnonsense in the name of science
that's thrown out there, but thetruth is amazing.
You know, the truth will setyou free, brother.
It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Without question.
Yeah is amazing.
The truth will set you free,brother.
That's amazing.
I think you have in your backpocket a single scientific fact
that you say destroys the ideaof atheism.
You've been in atheism for along time, so if anybody can
talk about it, you can.
I definitely trust your opinion.
What's that single scientificfact that you can?
So I definitely trust youropinion.
What's that single scientificfact that you can share that
(18:35):
kills the uh, the idea, theargument of atheists that may be
watching listening today?
Sure, uh.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
So let's look at life and human beings.
Okay, so the atheists will say,well, life got started by
accident.
And then there's this phonyconcept they call evolution.
You know the word evolutionjust means change over time.
But the idea is, somehow thingsare already always getting
better.
And well, let's look at life.
(19:07):
So here's the fact Life runs onadvanced digital code.
Let me break that down a littlebit for you.
Okay, digital code is just codewith units of information.
You and I are talking overfantastic digital code, all of
which was designed by a mind.
These programs that we use tocommunicate didn't pop up by
(19:28):
accident.
You know, every kind of writingin the world is digital code.
All life runs digital code.
People know that.
You know it's called DNA.
It's a code with four specialgroups of atoms that our bodies
read and process.
So all life has this code.
(19:51):
Now, you know, and it's gotten.
It's more amazing than that evenbecause for the code to work,
you got to have machines thatcan read the code.
You got to have machines thatcan copy the code.
You got to have life's 3Dprinters.
They're called ribosomes, youknow.
(20:12):
So you know.
You hear it's in your genes.
Well, gene is just a section ofyour code that prints out a
part called a protein.
So where does all thistechnology come from?
And people want to say, well,it came by chance.
No, I'm sorry, no way.
I don't want to bore you withnumbers, but I'm not bored.
(20:35):
The chances of getting a modestsection of code, like 150
letters, to make any sort ofsense is less than picking a
grain of sand out of the entireuniverse.
I mean the numbers and that's.
You need so much and you haveto start with all of this.
Anybody who really processesthat has got to realize that
(20:58):
life was designed and you know,and it and this idea that we're
evolving in some positive sensenonsense.
You know, every generationhuman beings have about 100
errors in the code Out of 3.2billion and the code's pretty
fantastic, and so we're actuallygoing downhill.
(21:22):
But let me go further on mycode if I could, because there's
something that came out justbefore I published my first book
, counting to God, and I justblew me away.
Ok, so there was a project of400 top scientists around the
world called the ENCODE project,to figure out what's in human
(21:42):
DNA.
How does human DNA work?
Ok, right, we all want to know.
And well, they sure didn't findeverything, but here's some of
the things they found.
They found that almost all ofour 3.2 billion letters of code
is functional.
It's doing something.
We don't always know what itdoes, because it's advanced.
I mean, bill Gates said DNA islike computer code and only far
(22:06):
four more advanced than anythingwe've ever built.
Dna.
Bill Gates knows somethingabout code.
I would think OK, you're notjust talking ordinary code.
This project of 400 scientistssaid the code has at least two
layers of information and theycame up with little facts, like
you and I.
So code within code.
Ok, don't tell me it happenedby chance.
(22:26):
I mean, get real.
We have 4 million switches inour code that turn systems on
and off.
So this fantastic code tellsyour body when you need a new
part.
It tells the 3D printers in ourbody how to print the part,
(22:53):
tells the other machines in thebody how to put the parts
together.
It tells how you run the wholesystem.
And anybody really thinks thatthrough?
How can you be an atheist?
You know none of the top darkbiological scientists in the
world today.
They all know Darwin's theorydoesn't work.
(23:13):
I mean, mathematically, all thesimulations go downhill, but
they keep thinking they're goingto find this one little trick
that saves it.
You know, did you ever go downone of these rabbit holes on the
internet where you know youjust keep listening and we got
this one little trick for you?
Well, I mean, that's the stateof Darwinian evolution today.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Oh gosh, that's not a good thing either way.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
So anyhow, get me started about code and see what
you unleash.
I mean, I just go on, that's OK.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
I'm glad you unleashed it.
Like I said, the nerd in me isis clapping his hands and
rejoicing.
Like I said, the nerd in me isclapping his hands and rejoicing
, so I'm good with it.
Just a few more questionsbefore we cut out of here.
I'd love for you to share thedriving factor for your books.
I know when I wrote my firstbook, there was a singular thing
that kind of drove me to getthrough it, even though I was
tired sometimes Sometimes when Iwork out right, I had to get
(24:04):
this done.
That one thing was pushing me.
I had to get this done.
It was that one thing waspushing me.
I had to get this completed.
Did you have a driving forcelike that for why you wrote,
especially your first book?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, it took me 10 years to do that first book.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
And.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I had a lot of those no, a lot of those things, a lot
of sadness, but I felt I had towrite it.
I felt God wanted me to writeit and I wanted to spare people
from what I had been through ofso many years of thinking that
life was meaningless Wow, and mybooks aren't big sellers.
(24:36):
But I've had people come up tome with tears in their eyes
thanking me for writing them andthat's all I need.
So and I, and that's why youknow my new book, the God Proofs
, is a graphic novel for theyounger audience, because, man,
we got to get these kids beforethey get into these classrooms
(24:58):
with atheist professors andlisten to nonsense.
But that's what drives metrying to help.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Well, that's.
That means so much.
I respect you so much more, man, just by hearing that.
That's what drives me trying tohelp.
Well, that means so much.
I respect you so much more, man, just by hearing that.
I love that.
I love that.
All right, last couple ofquestions and then I'll let you
get back to the rest of your day.
Again, thank you for being here.
This has been great for us tohear a little bit of your story,
man.
You have a rich life, so I'mglad to do the time to share it
with us today.
How, how would you speak tosomebody who blames God for the
(25:26):
bad things that happens in theirlife but credits themselves for
the good things that happen intheir life?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, yeah, it's.
Why do bad things happen togood people?
Sure, you know.
The answer to that iscomplicated the we live in a
fallen world is the answer, andit goes back to the Garden of
Eden, which was a real place,and our disobedience is a human
(25:57):
race against God.
We've messed things up.
The Bible says Jesus is goingto come and set it straight.
Now I'm getting beyond sciencehere, but I think your question
invites me to go beyond science.
And so the Bible says you willsuffer, but it says your time on
earth is short compared to yourtime in eternity.
(26:19):
So and we could all, if we allgot together and followed the 10
commandments and treated eachother with respect and kindness,
what a wonderful world thiswould be really.
So, you know, I mean, we messourselves up more than anybody
else, and I think a lot of ithas to do with thinking life is
(26:42):
meaningless, that it's all about, you know, money or whether
your team wins the football game.
You know there's a lot more toit than that.
So it's hard.
Suffering is hard.
I've suffered, I'm sure you'vesuffered, we've all suffered,
but the Bible tells us there'smore.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I love that man.
Thank you for sharing that.
That's a fantastic answeractually.
All right, our final questionasks is for all of our guests.
A lot of times there's somepauses and some hems and haws
and they struggle with it alittle bit.
Even though they know about itin advance, they still struggle
with it because it's really atough question.
But I call them our CMVquestions career, mission and
(27:23):
vocation.
So all of your prior work isoff of the table no
mathematicians, no masters intheoretical math, no magna cum
laude from law school, you'renot a lawyer, you're not talking
to Congress, you're not making401ks and pension plans and
you're not writing books.
What is Douglas most likely tobe doing career-wise,
(27:45):
mission-wise?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
or vocation-wise?
Excuse me, what are you mostlikely to be doing?
Career-wise, mission-wise orvocation-wise?
Excuse me, what are you mostlikely to be doing?
I think I'd most likely bewalking on the beach collecting
shells.
Seriously, I mean, I've alwaysbeen a dreamer.
I just love the beach, thesound of the ocean, you know.
Take all that away.
I got no career.
I'm just going to hang out atthe.
I can't surf, but I can hangout on the beach.
(28:10):
One of my fantasy jobs, I'lltell you my fantasy job, which I
never accomplished, was to havea little ice cream push cart on
the beach and go around andsell ice cream.
Wow, really, I thought thatwould be the perfect job, but I
never got it.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
You know, your mother would have had your head if you
gave her that ice cream.
I would have put an ice creampush cart on the beach.
She would have walked me awayforever.
You may never get out of thathouse.
Yeah, oh, my goodness, that'sfunny though, doug man.
Thank you so much.
This has been a fantasticconversation.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
How good as that's funny, though, but doug man,
thank you so much.
It's been a fantasticconversation.
Uh, how can people find you andyour work and your books and
everything.
How can they find you?
Sure, uh, go to my website thetitle of my first book, counting
to godcom, and it's got my blogpost.
Uh, it's got my books up there.
Uh, you, it's a link, I think,to when I lectured at MIT, some
of my other lectures, and if you, if you go to my blog, it's got
(29:16):
a way for people to contact me.
So I invite everybody to checkout Counting to God dot com.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I love it.
Counting to God.
Godcom, you can find Doug'sworks and his blog.
You can reach out to him.
I'm sure he has a great desireto have conversations with you
guys about God and about faithand where science fits in or
doesn't.
So I'm excited about being hereto share this with you today
and for every aspect of thisconversation.
(29:46):
Doug, I want to give you thefloor for the next 60 seconds or
so.
Say what you want to the people.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I just want to say we've only scratched the surface
, literally here in the sciencefor God.
There's no scientificexplanation for why anything
exists.
All right, everybody realizesyou can't get the universe we
(30:17):
see today based on the presentlaws of physics.
Every, every scientist, everytop scientist almost, will
realize that the laws of physicsare designed for life to exist.
People have this fantasy.
Well, maybe there's otheruniverses with other laws.
That's a pure fantasy.
That's not even a scientificidea.
I mean, it's imagination.
You can always come up withimagination to deny God If you
(30:38):
get into.
I'm reading a book by aneurosurgeon of the mind being
separate from the body.
We are not just our brains, arenot just meat computers.
We have a mind in time andspace that is not within our
brain.
And there's so much out there.
(30:59):
I just invite people to exploreon their own, you know, because
it can change your life.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Oh, I love this man.
Thank you again for jumping inhere and being a part of this
conversation, man.
It's been enlightening, to saythe least.
Hopefully our paths will crossagain when you have a new book
coming out or if you want topromote your second book when
it's ready to roll.
So either way, man, I'm excitedabout this conversation.
Thanks for your time here.
Definitely appreciate this way.
Man, I'm excited about thisconversation.
Thank you for your time here.
Definitely appreciate this.
And for you guys watching andlistening CountingToGodcom, you
(31:30):
can find Doug and his work.
So, if you happen to askquestions and share some of his
stories with you guys that youdidn't share with us and show
you how to find his work, hisbooks and his blogs and
everything.
So thank you again, doug, forbeing a part of this
conversation.
It's been fun, always goodtalking to you.
Same here, sir.
So, douglas and Mr U, we areout of here.
Have a great day.
Thanks again for watching.
Welcome back to one on one with Mr you.
Of course, I am your host, mrYu, in studio with us today.
Douglas L.
He's an author, lawyer,mathematician, author of many
books, including the Proofs ofGod.
How are you Doug Good to haveyou in the house, man.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm delighted to be here Doing great Good day.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Same here.
Man, thanks for having me.
We had some incredible times inour pre-interview chat.
It was insightful, to say theleast.
I'm excited about our listenersand viewers getting to hear
some of your story and whatyou've experienced.
So we'll try to make these 30minutes count or so.
So excited about this, man.
But I want to kind of start offlike we always do with all of
our guests.
I always ask them I think it'san easy question, but sometimes
(00:59):
there's layers to it.
Tell us about your upbringingand your childhood.
Where's Doug from?
What got you from there to here?
Tell us about your upbringingand childhood.
Where's Doug from?
What got you?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
from there to here.
Great, I'm from Connecticut,grew up in a Christian family
and but I was just the nerdiestkid you could imagine.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
You know, I always thought if you looked up the
definition of the word in theword nerd in the dictionary.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
You know they have my picture there.
I mean, I was a loner, um, uh,and really into science and
mathematics.
I just love math, you know.
You know you add two plus two,you always get four.
You could count on two plus two.
You can't count on peoplesometimes.
So, uh, when I was, I reallydevoured books on science and I
(01:49):
remember I think it was a highschool book that suggested life
could have started in some dirtypond, you know, eons ago.
And when I read that I thought,well, it's in a high school book
, right, it's got to be true.
And it started me to turn awayfrom God.
So I began to think that thisGod stuff was nonsense.
(02:12):
You know, it's just for stupidpeople, ignorant people.
The smart money was on.
You know, atheism and science,we'll talk about what that means
.
So I became an atheist at thattime.
And when my son was born, mywife wanted to get him baptized
and I said, yes, dear, I didn'twant that fight.
So we went to church and I feltthose people had something.
(02:35):
You know something.
I wanted something a lot morevaluable than money or prestige,
whatever you want to call that.
So but I told myself you know,doug, you're an MIT grad, you
got to think this through, let'snot get swept up in some
emotion, you know.
And so I started looking intothe evidence for God on a
(03:01):
scientific basis, and what Ifound is overwhelmed me.
And now that I'm retired frommy career as a lawyer, I'm
having so much fun trying tojust spread the word, because
people know a lot of these factsbut they just don't think about
it.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
That makes a lot of sense.
Man, I love the fact thatyou're on this journey.
I'm not against that.
People think that, oh, most ofthe time this is a cult
mentality.
So, hint, hint, if you knowsomething about what I'm about
to say, it might be in asituation like that.
But you know, asking questionsand questioning God and
(03:41):
questioning the Word.
God doesn't have a problem withthat.
I'm not speaking for God.
He doesn't have a problem withyou questioning why he wants you
to do things or why you're in aplace in your life that you're
on.
He doesn't have a problem withthat.
It's not the question asking asan issue.
So you're doing that and you'reliving your life out that way.
(04:01):
I think I understood from youthat you were obviously a former
atheist and you spent 30 years,or you spent more than that,
trying to reconcile God, scienceand the things that go into
both.
I respect your journey but,number one, if I hadn't said
that already, I really respectthe journey.
You're still asking questions,you're still seeking, you're
(04:21):
still getting information andevidence, and you found a lot of
empirical evidence to supportyour beliefs.
Tell me what, why you think theidea of science appeals to
certain people.
If you know what I mean, why doyou think that's so appealing?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
That's a great question, I know, not sure I
have a great answer to, but alot of people think science is
contrary to god.
You know, I mean that's.
I think it's the most dangerousmyth of our uh, of our current
age and uh, and the reason theythink that is because there's a
lot of people in universitieswith scientists, call themselves
(04:59):
scientists, who will tell youthey don't believe in god.
You know, you'll hear I believein science, which is nonsense.
Since when does science orreligion?
Science is just figuring thingsout.
That's all.
It is Experiments.
You do experiments, you look atit, you try to reason it, you
try to.
You know, a famous guy, richardFeynman, once said if it
(05:22):
disagrees with experiment, it'swrong.
That's the definition ofscience.
Okay, science isn't some sortof religion.
You don't worship science.
It's a process, and the process, what I found, will get you to
believe that the universe wascreated and designed and that
life was created and designed.
(05:43):
And isn't that what the Bibletells us about God?
I mean, that's, it's not.
It tells us a lot more thanthat, but that's pretty good
starting point, and this rightout of science.
So you know, I, a lot of people, just don't want to believe in
a God.
I get it, they can do what theywant, you know.
But uh, it's not true thatscience is contrary to God,
(06:03):
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I mean it's not true that science is contrary to God
Absolutely.
I mean it's actually literallydefined as the study of
something observed.
It's like we believe in so manythings that we can't see.
So I'm amazed that areas likefaith in God are on the
exemption list.
We don't believe in gravity,because we know if you jump off
(06:26):
a building, gravity is going toplay a part and it's going to be
a law.
It's a law you can't see, butall of us can see the impact
once you hit that ground.
So it's amazing to me that wekind of feel so easy to pick and
choose what invisible laws wewant to believe in and which
ones we don't.
It's very, very strange.
I love that you have such adesire for science and math.
(06:47):
I wonder if you watched theshow Big Bang Theory at all.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Oh, I love that show.
I love that show.
You know Sheldon's got thismodel of the DNA atom.
You seen that I actually boughtthat to put it in my office.
At one time we moved houses.
My wife made me get rid of it.
I donated it.
But that DNA model, man, that'sthe coolest.
(07:12):
I love the Big Bang TheoryGreat show.
So much fun you can have withscience.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I loved it for a lot of different reasons.
I won't spend too much time onit, but I did really enjoy the
show.
I had to stop watching for someother reasons, that things were
being kind of put into the showthat I didn't really feel great
about, probably because that'swhat I did, but I loved it
because it was like people whowere like really, really smart
but they were like dumb asbricks.
(07:42):
I'm like, wow, it's such aweird dichotomy.
But when you talk about lovingscience and math, it reminds me
of some of my nerddom, which I'mtotally cool with owning.
I wasn't a theoreticalphysicist like they are, but I
was really into things likescience and math and stuff.
What drew you to become alawyer?
It feels like they're connected, but they're not.
(08:02):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, what made you decide tobe a lawyer?
What made you decide to be aprofessional?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well, you know, it comes a time in your life where
you want to eat and, being atheoretical mathematician, you
know your parents are notfeeding you.
You've got to find your own waysomehow.
So you know, I call it thelobster factor.
I make a joke out of it.
I like to eat lobster andlobster costs a little bit of
money.
And I went to law school to makea living.
(08:28):
I went to math graduate schoolfor three years and I kind of
fell into that because this isjust the truth.
Take it however you want totake it.
But it was really easy, foreasy for me, okay, and I'm kind
of basically, at heart, I stillhave to fight with my laziness.
(08:48):
So it was really easy for me.
I was very good at math.
I cruised through mit, graduatedearly, straight a's in every
math course and, uh, but thenyou know, I was in law school.
What are you really going to dofor a living?
What are you going to do whenyou grow up?
And some of my law school oneof my law school friends, one of
(09:10):
my math graduate school friendshad gone to law school and said
, hey, it's not that hard.
So I figured, hey, I could dothat, and so I went to law
school.
I had to look up every otherword in the dictionary to get
started, because I alwaysskipped, slept right through my
humanities classes at MIT.
You know, I mean I just wantmath, but it's really worked out
(09:31):
super because, if you do, I'vemostly done pensions and
benefits.
You know technical governmentrules and logic gets you a long
way.
Clearness of thought, clearnessof expressing an argument.
And so, yeah, I took a turnmaybe a wrong turn became a
(09:53):
lawyer no lawyer, joe, but youknow it's really helped my
journey, because I think in mybooks I can bring a clarity of
writing that I wouldn't have ifI hadn't been a lawyer.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
I want to get into that.
I want to talk a little bitabout some of the work you did
with the corporations andpensions and stuff.
I really want to get into thata little bit.
But in being a lawyer I kind ofimagine that it provides you
with a certain set of skills, aspecific set of skills to kind
of help you in yourunderstanding and your research,
even your conversations withother people about God.
(10:27):
Tell me how you sort of twothings interconnect them.
If they did.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Well, one of the things you learn in law school
is how to write effectively.
Cut out a lot of the extrabaggage words.
Another thing you learn is whenyou're trying to persuade
somebody of something, hit themwith your best shot, okay.
Or if you got two or three bestshots, hit them with that first
.
Don't give them a list of 25things you know.
(10:55):
Hit them with your best shot,and that's what I've tried to do
in my books.
It's uh, so it's not directlyrelated, but but it's.
It's useful skills, you know,just being able, plus life
experience.
What's important, what's not?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
no, that's absolutely great, is it?
Do you find it helpful to be aspeaker as well?
Having been a lawyer and havinglearned how to articulate
points and kind of speaking infront of people, have you found
it to be helpful as a publicspeaker?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
I.
I find it to be helpful.
Yeah, I mean I don't do a lotof public speaking a few times a
year, but I'm fine with it andsometimes I enjoy it.
You know I like to tell jokes,get the audience going.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
That's like you're totally into it.
Okay, I love this.
All right, so you became aprominent attorney.
We kind of talked about that alittle bit and I found it really
, really interesting.
I asked you about it in ourpre-interview and asked if you
were okay with us talking aboutit a little bit.
But you talked about how youmade the first 401k plan in
professional sports.
I thought that was astoundingto me, not only because I'm a
(12:04):
big, uh sports fan, but alsobecause I, the people who are in
my usual sports circles allthey care about is their team
and how their team does, and youdon't really think about the
player, the player's family.
They get hurt on the field.
Are they covered?
Do they have any guarantees inplace?
If they get injured late in theyear, in the contract year,
(12:27):
what happens to them?
So all the things I care about,but you may not speak to all
those things, but tell me aboutyour experiences making that
first 401k plan.
How'd it come about?
How'd you get the awesomeassignment to do that?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
You know it had to be the hand of God, because who
would have thought that a nerdyguy like me with absolutely no
athletic talent would be for 30years the head lawyer for all
the benefit plans of the NFL?
Wow, they had a technicalproblem that I was right on top
of the union, did negotiatingwith the league in the early
(13:01):
1990s and once I solved that, tospeed up the story, basically
Gene Upshaw, hall of Famer, putme in as the head benefit lawyer
, firing two other law firms.
So uh and uh, and it's been aride.
I could.
You know I'm into stories, uh,but I've seen the underside of
(13:27):
the nfl.
You say the guys get hurt, theguys who get carried off the
field.
But I did draft a 401k plan forthe players, the first one I did
.
Other created other novel playplans.
We have a plan for guys withhead injuries.
We have all sorts of disabilitybenefits that are.
Now we're paying out $35million a month.
(13:49):
Oh my, now, now we have, wehave.
I say we.
It's not my money, but I helpedset it up so I take partial
pride in it, forgive me.
Yeah, we have $14 billion inassets that has to be spent on
players through pensions and allthese savings plans and other
(14:13):
things I've set up.
So you know, they have shortcareers, so giving them a good
benefits package is very, veryimportant, and the union helped
on that so, and managementrealized it was important too.
It ended up being a jointeffort.
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
So so that you know so that allowed me to afford
lobster dinners occasionally,occasionally, I'm sure more than
you want to say.
Though I also want to say I'mpersuaded by Congress to kind of
help out with creating bigchanges in employee benefit laws
(14:55):
.
That's not like pioneer stuff,man.
Are you catching the magnitude?
I mean, this is amazing.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, I got the law changed a few times.
You know, one of the clients Iworked on was a big union
Western Conference of Teamsterstruck drivers on the West.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Oh, my goodness OK.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Three hundred thousand plus employees.
And this is back in the 80s andthere are a lot.
That time said you couldn'tdivide up a pension on divorce
and but the California courtswere doing it, so the union was
always in.
It was a mess and I got thehelp to get the federal law
changed.
(15:39):
So oh my goodness yeah, I wrotethe statute of.
You know what happens topensions and divorce.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Anyhow, yeah, I want to go into the union department
like I don't keep the trainmoving.
I mean, I'm into it because mymother she's been a longtime
union worker when she wasworking full time and she was
like she relied on them to haveher back in every way, shape and
(16:09):
form as it pertains to her andthe establishment she worked for
.
I'm like, do you have anyinsights into that time, without
devoting anything confidentialor anything, just kind of just
giving the insights about thetime involved with the union,
because there's always so manythings that were going on.
He said when you say Teamsters,I'm thinking about stuff from
(16:30):
gangster movies.
I'm just being honest about it.
When I hear Teamsters, whatcomes to mind is Al Capone and
the Untouchables.
That's what I think aboutimmediately, but your view of it
might be different.
But you know your time with theunions.
Did you see anything there thatyou say you know, wow, this is,
I'm involved with this orthere's an opportunity here for
(16:50):
something, anything like that,that you think might be valuable
to?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
share.
I will say that the unionpeople at the NFL have been
fantastic, as has the managementof the NFL, but I've been
involved with a couple of highprofile unions, or started to
get involved, and I couldn'twait to run for the door.
Ok, just just put it that way.
There's some people you do notwant to work with because you
(17:14):
can tell they don't want to playthe game by the door.
Okay, just just put it that way.
There's some people you do notwant to work with because you
can tell they don't want to playthe game by the rules and I'm
not going to help anybodyviolate federal law.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Fair, and where and where you should.
I love this.
I love this.
I love this.
We talked a lot about yourfaith as well, and I mean half
of them were just silenced inthere indulging in the Big Bang
Theory stuff, because that wasjust fun for me.
I love the show and I don'thave many friends who watch it,
(17:42):
so I'm like, ok, I got one now.
Thanks, doug.
Where do you see the biggestconflict in science and religion
?
Where do you see the biggestconflict there?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I don't see any conflict.
Okay, fair enough.
I think science supports belieftotally.
I think there's a lot ofnonsense in the name of science
that's thrown out there, but thetruth is amazing.
You know, the truth will setyou free, brother.
It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Without question.
Yeah is amazing.
The truth will set you free,brother.
That's amazing.
I think you have in your backpocket a single scientific fact
that you say destroys the ideaof atheism.
You've been in atheism for along time, so if anybody can
talk about it, you can.
I definitely trust your opinion.
What's that single scientificfact that you can?
So I definitely trust youropinion.
What's that single scientificfact that you can share that
(18:35):
kills the uh, the idea, theargument of atheists that may be
watching listening today?
Sure, uh.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
So let's look at life and human beings.
Okay, so the atheists will say,well, life got started by
accident.
And then there's this phonyconcept they call evolution.
You know the word evolutionjust means change over time.
But the idea is, somehow thingsare already always getting
better.
And well, let's look at life.
(19:07):
So here's the fact Life runs onadvanced digital code.
Let me break that down a littlebit for you.
Okay, digital code is just codewith units of information.
You and I are talking overfantastic digital code, all of
which was designed by a mind.
These programs that we use tocommunicate didn't pop up by
(19:28):
accident.
You know, every kind of writingin the world is digital code.
All life runs digital code.
People know that.
You know it's called DNA.
It's a code with four specialgroups of atoms that our bodies
read and process.
So all life has this code.
(19:51):
Now, you know, and it's gotten.
It's more amazing than that evenbecause for the code to work,
you got to have machines thatcan read the code.
You got to have machines thatcan copy the code.
You got to have life's 3Dprinters.
They're called ribosomes, youknow.
(20:12):
So you know.
You hear it's in your genes.
Well, gene is just a section ofyour code that prints out a
part called a protein.
So where does all thistechnology come from?
And people want to say, well,it came by chance.
No, I'm sorry, no way.
I don't want to bore you withnumbers, but I'm not bored.
(20:35):
The chances of getting a modestsection of code, like 150
letters, to make any sort ofsense is less than picking a
grain of sand out of the entireuniverse.
I mean the numbers and that's.
You need so much and you haveto start with all of this.
Anybody who really processesthat has got to realize that
(20:58):
life was designed and you know,and it and this idea that we're
evolving in some positive sensenonsense.
You know, every generationhuman beings have about 100
errors in the code Out of 3.2billion and the code's pretty
fantastic, and so we're actuallygoing downhill.
(21:22):
But let me go further on mycode if I could, because there's
something that came out justbefore I published my first book
, counting to God, and I justblew me away.
Ok, so there was a project of400 top scientists around the
world called the ENCODE project,to figure out what's in human
(21:42):
DNA.
How does human DNA work?
Ok, right, we all want to know.
And well, they sure didn't findeverything, but here's some of
the things they found.
They found that almost all ofour 3.2 billion letters of code
is functional.
It's doing something.
We don't always know what itdoes, because it's advanced.
I mean, bill Gates said DNA islike computer code and only far
(22:06):
four more advanced than anythingwe've ever built.
Dna.
Bill Gates knows somethingabout code.
I would think OK, you're notjust talking ordinary code.
This project of 400 scientistssaid the code has at least two
layers of information and theycame up with little facts, like
you and I.
So code within code.
Ok, don't tell me it happenedby chance.
(22:26):
I mean, get real.
We have 4 million switches inour code that turn systems on
and off.
So this fantastic code tellsyour body when you need a new
part.
It tells the 3D printers in ourbody how to print the part,
(22:53):
tells the other machines in thebody how to put the parts
together.
It tells how you run the wholesystem.
And anybody really thinks thatthrough?
How can you be an atheist?
You know none of the top darkbiological scientists in the
world today.
They all know Darwin's theorydoesn't work.
(23:13):
I mean, mathematically, all thesimulations go downhill, but
they keep thinking they're goingto find this one little trick
that saves it.
You know, did you ever go downone of these rabbit holes on the
internet where you know youjust keep listening and we got
this one little trick for you?
Well, I mean, that's the stateof Darwinian evolution today.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Oh gosh, that's not a good thing either way.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
So anyhow, get me started about code and see what
you unleash.
I mean, I just go on, that's OK.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
I'm glad you unleashed it.
Like I said, the nerd in me isis clapping his hands and
rejoicing.
Like I said, the nerd in me isclapping his hands and rejoicing
, so I'm good with it.
Just a few more questionsbefore we cut out of here.
I'd love for you to share thedriving factor for your books.
I know when I wrote my firstbook, there was a singular thing
that kind of drove me to getthrough it, even though I was
tired sometimes Sometimes when Iwork out right, I had to get
(24:04):
this done.
That one thing was pushing me.
I had to get this done.
It was that one thing waspushing me.
I had to get this completed.
Did you have a driving forcelike that for why you wrote,
especially your first book?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, it took me 10 years to do that first book.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
And.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I had a lot of those no, a lot of those things, a lot
of sadness, but I felt I had towrite it.
I felt God wanted me to writeit and I wanted to spare people
from what I had been through ofso many years of thinking that
life was meaningless Wow, and mybooks aren't big sellers.
(24:36):
But I've had people come up tome with tears in their eyes
thanking me for writing them andthat's all I need.
So and I, and that's why youknow my new book, the God Proofs
, is a graphic novel for theyounger audience, because, man,
we got to get these kids beforethey get into these classrooms
(24:58):
with atheist professors andlisten to nonsense.
But that's what drives metrying to help.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Well, that's.
That means so much.
I respect you so much more, man, just by hearing that.
That's what drives me trying tohelp.
Well, that means so much.
I respect you so much more, man, just by hearing that.
I love that.
I love that.
All right, last couple ofquestions and then I'll let you
get back to the rest of your day.
Again, thank you for being here.
This has been great for us tohear a little bit of your story,
man.
You have a rich life, so I'mglad to do the time to share it
with us today.
How, how would you speak tosomebody who blames God for the
(25:26):
bad things that happens in theirlife but credits themselves for
the good things that happen intheir life?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, yeah, it's.
Why do bad things happen togood people?
Sure, you know.
The answer to that iscomplicated the we live in a
fallen world is the answer, andit goes back to the Garden of
Eden, which was a real place,and our disobedience is a human
(25:57):
race against God.
We've messed things up.
The Bible says Jesus is goingto come and set it straight.
Now I'm getting beyond sciencehere, but I think your question
invites me to go beyond science.
And so the Bible says you willsuffer, but it says your time on
earth is short compared to yourtime in eternity.
(26:19):
So and we could all, if we allgot together and followed the 10
commandments and treated eachother with respect and kindness,
what a wonderful world thiswould be really.
So, you know, I mean, we messourselves up more than anybody
else, and I think a lot of ithas to do with thinking life is
(26:42):
meaningless, that it's all about, you know, money or whether
your team wins the football game.
You know there's a lot more toit than that.
So it's hard.
Suffering is hard.
I've suffered, I'm sure you'vesuffered, we've all suffered,
but the Bible tells us there'smore.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I love that man.
Thank you for sharing that.
That's a fantastic answeractually.
All right, our final questionasks is for all of our guests.
A lot of times there's somepauses and some hems and haws
and they struggle with it alittle bit.
Even though they know about itin advance, they still struggle
with it because it's really atough question.
But I call them our CMVquestions career, mission and
(27:23):
vocation.
So all of your prior work isoff of the table no
mathematicians, no masters intheoretical math, no magna cum
laude from law school, you'renot a lawyer, you're not talking
to Congress, you're not making401ks and pension plans and
you're not writing books.
What is Douglas most likely tobe doing career-wise,
(27:45):
mission-wise?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
or vocation-wise?
Excuse me, what are you mostlikely to be doing?
Career-wise, mission-wise orvocation-wise?
Excuse me, what are you mostlikely to be doing?
I think I'd most likely bewalking on the beach collecting
shells.
Seriously, I mean, I've alwaysbeen a dreamer.
I just love the beach, thesound of the ocean, you know.
Take all that away.
I got no career.
I'm just going to hang out atthe.
I can't surf, but I can hangout on the beach.
(28:10):
One of my fantasy jobs, I'lltell you my fantasy job, which I
never accomplished, was to havea little ice cream push cart on
the beach and go around andsell ice cream.
Wow, really, I thought thatwould be the perfect job, but I
never got it.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
You know, your mother would have had your head if you
gave her that ice cream.
I would have put an ice creampush cart on the beach.
She would have walked me awayforever.
You may never get out of thathouse.
Yeah, oh, my goodness, that'sfunny though, doug man.
Thank you so much.
This has been a fantasticconversation.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
How good as that's funny, though, but doug man,
thank you so much.
It's been a fantasticconversation.
Uh, how can people find you andyour work and your books and
everything.
How can they find you?
Sure, uh, go to my website thetitle of my first book, counting
to godcom, and it's got my blogpost.
Uh, it's got my books up there.
Uh, you, it's a link, I think,to when I lectured at MIT, some
of my other lectures, and if you, if you go to my blog, it's got
(29:16):
a way for people to contact me.
So I invite everybody to checkout Counting to God dot com.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I love it.
Counting to God.
Godcom, you can find Doug'sworks and his blog.
You can reach out to him.
I'm sure he has a great desireto have conversations with you
guys about God and about faithand where science fits in or
doesn't.
So I'm excited about being hereto share this with you today
and for every aspect of thisconversation.
(29:46):
Doug, I want to give you thefloor for the next 60 seconds or
so.
Say what you want to the people.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I just want to say we've only scratched the surface
, literally here in the sciencefor God.
There's no scientificexplanation for why anything
exists.
All right, everybody realizesyou can't get the universe we
(30:17):
see today based on the presentlaws of physics.
Every, every scientist, everytop scientist almost, will
realize that the laws of physicsare designed for life to exist.
People have this fantasy.
Well, maybe there's otheruniverses with other laws.
That's a pure fantasy.
That's not even a scientificidea.
I mean, it's imagination.
You can always come up withimagination to deny God If you
(30:38):
get into.
I'm reading a book by aneurosurgeon of the mind being
separate from the body.
We are not just our brains, arenot just meat computers.
We have a mind in time andspace that is not within our
brain.
And there's so much out there.
(30:59):
I just invite people to exploreon their own, you know, because
it can change your life.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Oh, I love this man.
Thank you again for jumping inhere and being a part of this
conversation, man.
It's been enlightening, to saythe least.
Hopefully our paths will crossagain when you have a new book
coming out or if you want topromote your second book when
it's ready to roll.
So either way, man, I'm excitedabout this conversation.
Thanks for your time here.
Definitely appreciate this way.
Man, I'm excited about thisconversation.
Thank you for your time here.
Definitely appreciate this.
And for you guys watching andlistening CountingToGodcom, you
(31:30):
can find Doug and his work.
So, if you happen to askquestions and share some of his
stories with you guys that youdidn't share with us and show
you how to find his work, hisbooks and his blogs and
everything.
So thank you again, doug, forbeing a part of this
conversation.
It's been fun, always goodtalking to you.
Same here, sir.
So, douglas and Mr U, we areout of here.
Have a great day.
Thanks again for watching.
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