May 5, 2025 • 40 mins
Debra McNinch shares her journey from a small-town Kansas upbringing to founding Battle Cry Moms, a prayer movement supporting mothers of prodigal children that now includes over 1,200 participants worldwide.
• Growing up in a single-parent household in the 1970s and experiencing poverty shaped Deborah's perspective on family and faith
• The absence of a father figure created challenges in understanding God as Father and initially in her marriage relationship
• Her life changed dramatically when her oldest child came out as transgender, forcing her to navigate between rejection and affirmation
• Battle Cry Prayer Movement emerged from her personal struggle to find a balanced approach to loving her child while maintaining her faith convictions
• The five-step Battle Plan provides practical guidance: focusing on Scripture, worship, consistent prayer, declaring God's promises, and finding community
• Parents facing similar challenges are encouraged to find supportive communities rather than facing their struggles alone
• Photography, particularly of birds, serves as both a creative outlet and ministry opportunity for Deborah
If you're struggling with a prodigal child, remember Deborah's motto: "No one fights alone." Connect with her at debramcninch.com or find her book "Battle Cry: Love Goes to War" on her website or Amazon.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
welcome back to one-on-one with mr you.
Of course I'm your host, mr youin studio today.
Deborah mcninch, founder of thebattle cry prayer movement.
Deborah, how are you today?
One-on-one with Mr U?
Of course I'm your host, mr UIn studio today.
Debra McNinch, founder of theBattle Cry Prayer Movement.
Debra, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
I'm great.
How are you today?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Not too shabby.
It could be better, but it'sreally good though.
Glad to have you in the housetoday.
We had a fantasticpre-interview chat.
I'm really excited about ourviewers and listeners hearing a
lot more of your stories, solet's get into it.
As customary, all I know, ourguests always ask them about
their upbringing and childhood.
Give us a picture of where youcome from and what your life was
(00:53):
like back then, and then we'llfast forward to what it's like
now.
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yes, so I was born in a small town in South Central
Kansas, so I'm a little Midwestgirl.
Small town in South CentralKansas, so I'm a little Midwest
girl.
We're known for Burger Stationand Bluegrass in my town and I'm
super proud.
I spent my whole life trying toget out of that little town and
now that I'm older I'm kind ofspending the rest of it trying
to get back.
(01:17):
So it's funny how you kind ofmiss it.
I don't know there's times Ireally miss living in my little
hometown, but it was a greatupbringing.
I had a great life.
I don't know there's times Ireally miss living in my little
hometown, but it was a greatupbringing.
I had a great life.
I came from a single momhousehold.
I grew up in the 70s and 80sand it wasn't cool at that time
to be a single mom.
So my mom was a single mombefore it was the end thing to
(01:40):
do and so we were kind of poor.
We didn't have a lot of thingskind of poor kind of poor.
We didn't have a lot of thingsin this world.
But, um, you know, I knew Ididn't have a lot of things, but
I didn't.
At the same time, I knew that mymom loved me and I had
everything I needed, and so, um,you know, I had a great life I
(02:02):
I with just a good, solidfoundation.
My mama made sure we got onthat church bus and learned
about Jesus.
I couldn't have asked for abetter upbringing.
Overall, we all have things.
I didn't have a dad growing up.
I kind of missed that.
(02:23):
There were things I missedabout that.
There were always days atschool that was bring your
father to school day, and youknow, I didn't have those kinds
of days.
I didn't have grandparents.
They had all passed away beforeI was born, and so I really I
had a mother and a brother and asister, and that was pretty
much the extent of my family,and so I always dreamed of
having a big, extended family.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Okay, no, I like that .
One thing I want to ask youabout today, because I know that
anytime a parent isn't in ahousehold, of course you're
going to be an impact, but whatit feels like to me, could you
be my circle of influence?
But from where I sit, I rarelyever hear the daughter's side of
not having a father.
I hear the son's side all thetime.
I never hear the daughter'sside.
Tell me what you think theimpact was for you being a
(03:14):
daughter, not having a father inthe household.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Oh, it was huge and I still probably struggle today
with that not needing to beenough.
You know, I think a little girlwants a dad and wants that
protector and I didn't have thatand I had a very strong,
independent mom that you knowraised me to not need a man.
You know I joke about that alot.
You know she raised us toreally be strong and independent
(03:41):
and you know, if somethingneeded fixed, she fixed it and
so I grew up just kind of beingvery independent like that and
so that probably reallytransferred over to me getting
married in my twenties and Ithink there was probably a
struggle.
We've been married 33 years now,but probably the first, you
know, 10 years, if not more.
(04:02):
There was probably really astruggle with me allowing my
husband to be, you know, thehead, if not more.
There was probably really astruggle with me allowing my
husband to be, you know, thehead of the house as God
ordained, just because of myupbringing and always thinking
that I needed to always makesure that I was solid and strong
instead of letting him lead,because I never had that as a
role model growing up.
And then that also kind ofalways has transferred over to
(04:25):
my relationship with God.
Because, you know, some peoplecan think of God the father, and
it's such a beautiful imagerythat they have.
But I don't have that, becausein my world a father leaves and
leaves his family to be hungryand maybe without electricity
and without needs that you haveand no way to pay for things.
And you know, if the car breaksdown, maybe you're not going to
(04:48):
eat, and so you know thosetypes of things.
When I think of a father, Ithink of the hurt side of it,
and so sometimes it's reallyhard for me to think of a loving
father because I didn't haveone, and so I know that it still
affects me to this day.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I know that it still affects me to this day.
I wish I can take some time togo into that from my standpoint,
because I had the samesituation and I struggled to
understand the whole God, thefather concept in real terms
because you know, I had a fatherthat didn't want me around, so
that's like we're always in timeto get away from me.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah, it's really hard.
Yeah, it's hard To get awayfrom me.
Yeah, it's really hard.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, it is hard.
I want to kind of stay on thisa little bit, because one thing
you mentioned was about youallowing your husband to lead.
For those that may notunderstand that, maybe they
watch a lot of television andmovies and maybe they take the
excuse from the media Explain tothem in a way that you think I
mean dumb and down, but youthink you need to yeah, but
(05:50):
speak to what that means.
Will you still maintain yourstrength and your individuality,
but you still respect yourhusband in the office that he
stands in?
Break the dialogue if you don'tmind sharing a little bit about
that please.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Sure I would love to.
You know we have a Christianfamily in our home, and so we
try to do things as the Bibleorders it to do that.
And you know God has made thefamily a unit and he set before
us the standards and how we areto live.
And you know God is always thefirst, and then your husband,
(06:25):
and then your husband is the onethat takes care of your wife
and the family.
And you know we have made thatword submit in our culture like
a dirty ugly word to think it'sa negative thing, but really
it's a beautiful thing that youknow I submit my life to him to
be able to and let him lead me.
Now, what does that mean?
That doesn't mean he tells mewhat to do, because he knows
(06:47):
better than that, you know.
It doesn't mean that.
You know he's got me locked inthe closet somewhere, but you
know what it means is that wemake decisions together.
It means that we are a strongunit and we make decisions
together.
But he, as the leader of thehome, I know that he's praying
and asking the Lord to lead him,and so, therefore, I can rest
(07:09):
in the fact that God is going toanswer him and tell him what to
do for our family.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Right, it totally makes sense.
You told me during ourcommunity chat there were four
things that are your favoritethings in the whole world, and I
kind of called you out becausethere were four things in there
and one thing was missing thesame person you're talking about
right now, your husband.
He wasn't in your four favoritethings.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
So I had to call you out about that.
He is.
He's not in my.
My four favorite things arevery easy.
It's Jesus, coffee, you know,glitter and cupcakes, and so
your husband should have beeninside there somewhere and
cupcakes.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Your husband should have been inside there somewhere
.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I'll do five favorite things he's my favorite thing.
That's a given.
It's a given that he's myfavorite thing.
That's a given.
I saved that.
See how that went.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Hope he's not listening right now.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
He's not.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
That's not a true saying.
I love it though.
We talked yeah, we talked a lotabout a lot of things, and you
mentioned earlier about, youknow, being in poverty.
But so your mindset was prettygood because you you had, you
felt like you had what youneeded and you never made it
feel as though you didn't haveit.
But then we talked a little bitabout the the poverty mindset
(08:23):
in your adulthood, and I'd loveto get into that a little bit
more, because I think we talkeda little bit about the poverty
mindset in your adulthood andI'd love to get into that a
little bit more, because I thinkwe talked a little bit about
some hoarding and somestockpiling, kind of going on.
You're smiling and laughing now.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Exactly A little bit, or look behind me.
Yeah, you know, definitely,when you, when you grow up with
a lack, you know you makeyourself a promise or at least I
did that when I, you know, getto be an adult, I will never
blah, blah, blah then enter, youknow, whatever it is, you're
never going to do.
And you know, when you grow upwithout a lot of stuff, when you
(08:58):
are allowed to get stuff andyou have the money to get stuff,
it's easy to get stuff and havestuff.
And so, you know I like to justlike clothes.
I only had a handful of clothesgrowing up and so now, if you
would look in my closet, youknow I'm like, wow, I have way
too many clothes.
This is, you know, definitelythings I need to address.
And you know, I know we talkedabout even like things like if
(09:21):
my car breaks down.
Today, you know, I still panic.
I have money to fix my car.
Praise God, we have money.
If my car breaks down, I canfix the car.
But in my mind I still go backto that little girl that if my
mom's car broke down, you knowthat may mean that we're only
eating, you know, bread orwhatever.
(09:42):
You know, with sandwichesforever, and so she did what she
could and she did a great jobof always taking care of us, but
there just wasn't a lot ofextra stuff.
So that poverty mindset is hardto get rid of.
Because, therefore, I feel likeI should always have a cabinet
full of food just in case.
I should always keep threemonths worth of food just in
case.
You know, I should always keep,you know, three months worth of
(10:04):
food in my house just in case.
And that all stems back to nothaving stuff like that as a kid
and even like the fun stuff youknow, just junk food and whatnot
.
You know, nobody needs thatkind of stuff, but I didn't have
a lot of that growing up andyou know, now I still can't pass
like a display of ding-dongswithout being like I'm going to
(10:25):
need to buy a box, because thatwas like Ding-dongs.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
I never heard that in years.
I know Are we still doing that.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Well, you know, not very often, but once in a while
I still, like you know, I cravea good ding-dong, because
growing up, you know, we hadfood stamps and I only would get
those.
Like, we had a little WonderBread store so we could only go
get like the old ones.
We never got the new ones, youknow, but we could go get the
day old ones and eat those.
(10:54):
You know if, if mom got foodstamps or whatever, and so those
were just treat things for me,and so to this day they still
make me smile, because Iremember how much joy a
ding-dong would have brought meback when I was eight.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Oh yeah, I totally get that.
I thought they were extinct.
I haven't seen those in years.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
I know it.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
I go back in time.
I had Twinkies.
And then I go back in time, yes, I'm like, oh, my God Wow.
They're not good anymore.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Remember, they used to be wrapped in foil.
They had little foil.
No, they don't do that anymore.
It's not as good.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
You kind of thought?
They were really special andreally taking care of being full
right.
Yes, the joke was on us though,wasn't it?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yes, it was.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
But so, in regards to the whole stockpiling and
hoarding thing, I've seen itplayed out in very, very
negative, harmful ways.
But how does your husband andfamily deal with that mindset
and make that a two partquestion how did your husband
and family deal with thatmindset and how had that impact
how you raised the kiddos?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah.
So my husband would probablylaugh at me if he was sitting
here beside me and you wereasking him.
He'd be like, yeah, she's ahoarder.
No, he wouldn't say that, I'mjust kidding.
He would say, though, thatdefinitely he doesn't probably
agree with me on as much foodand things as I keep in the
house, because he's more of themindset, you know God's always
(12:20):
going to take care of us andit's all going to be good, and I
believe that to be fine.
But I also think God brings usto prepare, and so we probably
don't see eye to eye on on someof that stuff.
But I think he knows he grew upvery poor also, and so you know
he had a whole differentexperience, but he grew up very
poor as well, you know, and sowe.
(12:41):
It's funny because we've neverraised our kids.
You know some people that growup very poor and then end up
having a good living, end uplike spoiling their children and
giving them everything thatreally wasn't our, our case of
what we did, um, we made ourkids.
They worked, you know, from thetime they turned 14, they're
like it's time to get a job andwe taught them the value of
(13:03):
money and the value of hard workand they never.
They're like it's time to get ajob and we taught them the value
of money and the value of hardwork and they never.
They never got things likeother kids did.
You know they.
We never gave them new cars, wenever did this.
We never did that.
You know.
We tried to teach them that.
You know life is.
You know, if I give yousomething you know as as a
present or as as just somethingyou could use, that means that
(13:26):
I'm giving up or somebody elseis giving up something at the
same time, because there's onlyso much money, and so I want you
to understand what a sacrificeis this thing.
Whatever it is, is for you toget, and so it's always
something to be thankful and Ithink that's just how we raise
them was to be thankful and tonot need a lot of stuff.
And none of my children it'sreally funny because none of
(13:47):
them now they're all very simple, like minimalist.
They don't like a lot of stuff,they don't like, you know, a
bunch of knickknacks sittingaround and you know all of that
kind of stuff, and so definitelythey're probably kind of the
opposite of me and just want tobe able.
I think it's that generationtoo, though they want to be able
to just get in their car andand not have a house with things
(14:09):
.
They want to be able to goplaces and have experiences.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
All right, let's move on.
So over 1,200 moms from aroundthe world are a part of this.
What is Battle Cry Moms, andhow did it begin?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yes, and so Battle Cry Moms is an amazing group of
moms that come together to prayfor their prodigal children, and
it was founded about sevenyears ago.
My story started when my oldestchild called and said mom, I'm
transgender, and at the time Ididn't know what that meant.
(14:45):
Honestly, I really didn't evenknow what it meant and I really
didn't know how my life wasgoing to change and how my
family was going to changebecause of that announcement.
And so in the days and theweeks and the months that
followed that, you know, I hadto figure out my family has
changed and what am I going todo and what does my life look
(15:06):
like now?
What used to be a really close,tight-knit family now was going
to be at a place where theydidn't talk and nobody
communicated, and it reallybroke our family apart, didn't
talk and nobody communicated,and it really broke our family
apart.
And so I had to learn reallyquickly just how to survive, and
I always kind of like to saythat it felt like, you know, I
kind of had this Malibu Barbiedream house I had built on the
(15:30):
on the beach, and I was justsitting there watching the waves
, you know, ready for thegrandkids to roll in.
I didn't realize that there wassomething, this tsunami wave on
the horizon, getting ready tocome in and just knock my house
off its foundation.
And so when that wave came, Ihad to just decide is my house
built on the rock of JesusChrist or is it on shifting sand
(15:51):
?
And what does that look likenow?
And so am I going to be okay,am I going to go on, or is this
going to bury me?
And I had to decide that myrock is on Jesus and that, no
matter what is happening to meor my family, that he was still
in control, he was still on thethrone and that he was going to
somehow take all of this ashesof sadness and pain that we had
(16:15):
and make something beautiful outof it.
And that's what he has done.
I started about four years ago.
I started Battle Cry Moms, andit's a site for moms that have
prodigal children.
It doesn't matter what yourprodigal looks like.
Maybe they are an alcoholic, ormaybe they have just wandered
from the faith, maybe theysimply don't believe, maybe
(16:35):
they're LGBTQ.
Whatever the case is, there'sall kinds of different prodigals
.
We come together and we prayand believe that our kids are
going to come back into thesaving grace of Jesus Christ and
be delivered from whatever isholding them back, and they're
going to start a relationshipwith the Lord.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I love it.
I love it.
You talked a lot and this issomething that hopefully you're
still open to discuss it but inour pre-interview chat you
talked about the role of thechurch in this journey you've
been on with Battle Cry.
I personally, my wife and I,we've done together.
We've been in ministry fornearly 30 years now and we've
seen a lot of things that peoplenow in today's vernacular
(17:16):
called church hurt.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Tell us how the church helped you or hurt or
both in this particular journey.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah.
So at the very beginning Irealized that I was now loving
somebody that the church told meI was supposed to hate.
And so, as the days and theweeks and the months were
unfolding, I realized there weretwo doors in the church.
Door number one, over here,said you know that this is a sin
(17:49):
and that you should turn yourchild out.
You should not talk to them,you know they're going to hell
the whole thing, you know.
And so that was door number onethat was presented to me.
And door number two, over here,was more of an affirming stance
that said oh no, there'snothing wrong with what they're
doing, bring them in.
God loves everybody.
(18:10):
He doesn't care what they are,you know, just, let's just bring
them in and let them be whothey want to be.
And I found myself kind of goingbetween these two camps.
Going, you know, I don't knowif the theology of either camp
is correct and I don't think Ifit in either camp.
Because on door number one, ifwe honestly think that this is a
(18:33):
sin and these kids are going tohell and all of this nonsense,
then why are we not havingprayer meetings?
How come?
I had never been to a churchthat dedicated a whole service
to praying for prodigal children.
I had never seen it and Iwasn't hearing it.
And so why is the churchcondemning them to hell but not,
(18:53):
on their knees, praying themback?
You know, and so you know.
And then, over here, if we'regoing to affirm every single
thing that doesn't line up withthe word of God and just say,
well, that's how things are nowtimes have changed, then, you
know, I think we really need toask why did Jesus come and die?
Why did we need him?
If we're not going to callanything sin, you know.
(19:15):
And so I found myself reallyjust going.
I don't think either side isright, and you know there's
nothing I can do.
I can't hate my kid, I can'thate him enough to get him to
heaven, but at the same time Irefuse to love him straight to
hell, and so I knew I was goingto have to forge a path in the
middle that taught me how tolove my child right where he's
(19:36):
at, for who he is and as mychild, but love him in the truth
, never compromising on myvalues, never, ever
underestimating that God comesto deliver and heal people, and
never believing.
You know that there's notmiracles that could happen and
that he could come in and saveany of us.
He saved me from my sin.
(19:56):
I know he could save anybodyelse from theirs.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely yeah.
I wish we had time to get intomore of that particular
conversation.
I don't think we have time todo that, but I understand that
response and those two sides.
They both challenged him toaccept.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
What exactly?
is a battle plan, they bothchallenged him to accept what
exactly is a battle plan.
So I knew right away that Iprobably couldn't get up and
just be saying some kind ofwilly-nilly prayers Like, oh
dear Lord, save my kid today.
I knew that I was going to needthere was going to be good days
, I knew there was going to bebad days and I knew I was going
to need a plan written out towalk me through all the times.
And so God just gave me a verysimple five-step plan.
It's probably things people aredoing anyway, but I wrote them
out so I would have them and Icould use them every single day.
(20:51):
The first step is the word.
We all pick a verse.
Pick a verse, find a verse inthe Bible that talks about your
situation, talks about your,that speaks to you, that maybe
the Lord has given you or thatyou have found, and pray that
verse.
Pray that verse every singleday over your child.
I write that verse everywhere.
(21:11):
I put it in my phone.
When my child or children call,they all have a verse.
That verse rolls across thephone.
It rolls across the phone.
It rolls across the phonebefore I answer it, and so I put
that verse.
Wherever I can put it?
I put it on my bathroom mirror,I put it in my drawer, I put it
in my car when I'm sitting atthe stoplight, I can pull it out
and I can pray that verse.
And so find a verse that speaksto your child, pray it every
(21:35):
single day, never stop prayingit.
The second one is worship.
We worship in our group.
You know, the Lord is worthy ofour worship.
He is good and he is a holy Godand he is worthy to be
worshiped.
He's worthy to be worshiped inthe good times and the bad times
my circumstances, that doesn'tmatter because he is worthy to
be worshiped.
And so we worship in our group,and so we have a list group,
(21:57):
and so we we have a list ofsongs.
Find some songs, find two orthree worship songs that speak
to you and put those on whenthose bad days come and and they
will come.
I don't have all good days.
Last week was a really bad weekand I spent a lot of time
crying last week, to be honestwith you.
And so what did I do?
I went back to my battle planand I put on that worship music
(22:18):
that's to me.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Three prayer.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Make a list of things to pray.
We have a list in our group,just a good place to start.
Find 10 prayers, 10 things thatyou want to pray every day for
your child or your family, andwrite those down.
Pray them every single day.
Don't stop praying.
Four is declare God's promises.
Look up five or 10 promises inthe Bible.
(22:41):
The book is full of promises.
Just find the 10 that you like.
Start declaring those promisesevery single day.
Declare them aloud.
Don't let Satan get in yourhead.
Don't let him try to tell youthings aren't going to change,
because God's word is true andhis promises are true.
So start declaring thosepromises.
And the fifth step is very easyFind a community.
(23:02):
Join us at Battle, cry Moms,and if that's not the right
place for you, find two or threefriends that are going to come
along beside you and pray withyou and believe with you.
Get friends that will stand withyou, not ones that will talk
about it behind your back.
Find the ones that will say youknow what?
This is nothing that God can'tfix, and we're going to go
(23:23):
together before the throne andwe're going to lift up your
child until he comes back.
So that's just the easyfive-step battle plan.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I love it.
I love it.
We've got to find some peopleto find that whenever they are
in need of that five-step plan,you seem to have a friend right
now that's willing to stand byyou.
Here's a comment from HonestChristian Conversations.
Deborah's a powerhouse, lovelywoman in her heart for this
difficult topic.
I really enjoy chatting withher on my podcast too.
Battle Cry Moms is amazing.
You already have some friendsout here willing to support you.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Very good.
We love it.
We love everybody that wants topartner with us.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
One final question in regardsto that, and then we'll move on.
We're getting pretty close tothe end of our episode.
For today, one of the thingsthat I personally found we have
some challenges in our householdwith one of our daughters Not
exactly the same same, but to adegree similar and I think I
(24:22):
I've battled the biggest thingwas not that I I had a issue
with loving my daughter even inthe midst of the situation.
I think one thing you mentioned, which is consistency, not just
in prayer and worship.
I think that'd be consistent inthe love part too, because that
has me you're saying that Ilove this person the way Christ
(24:42):
loved me, or because Christloved me and Christ loves always
been consistent.
So it's like the struggle forme was showing that consistently
Right, and then no one.
How do you love somebody thatyou don't recognize?
How do you love somebody thatyou don't doesn't look the same
as the person that you don'trecognize?
How do you love somebody thatyou don't look the same as the
person that you started outloving?
They change drastically.
(25:03):
My wife tells me all the timethat I've changed and everything
.
She doesn't stop loving mebecause of that If I changed to
somebody else that was a polaropposite to what we started off
being.
That's different.
That could then make things alot difficult.
But how are you doing that part?
How are you being consistentlyloving?
(25:23):
Do you mind briefly answeringthat consistently loving in this
situation and not bringing yourown stuff into it and just
continuing to love withoutconditions, if that makes sense?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, for me I think it's definitely been.
The challenge has been that Iam changing, and I always joke
that my child was transgender,but I'm the one that's changing
and so had we not been walkingthrough this, I wouldn't know
the Lord like I know Him rightnow.
And so I definitely havechanged in my life the more I
(25:57):
grow closer to Him.
And so I ask Him all the time,the Lord, to blind me, and if it
takes to physically blind myeyes, then to do it, but to
blind me for the things I'mseeing on the outside and to
pray and believe for my childbecause of His heart.
I think it says in the Wordthat God doesn't look at the
(26:18):
outside, he looks of his heart.
You know.
I think it says, you know inthe word that you know God
doesn't look at the outside, helooks at the heart, and I I
believe that's one of thereasons, because the outside
could change the things we'regoing to do is we're going to
change, but his heart is thesame, you know, as it always was
, and I think as the church, thecapital C church, we have to do
a better job of trainingparents, and you know we have
these baby dedications and wepray Jeremiah 29, 11, and we
(26:42):
pretend, like you know,everybody's going to have this
hope and this amazing futurebecause that's what the word
says.
Well, yeah, that is what theword says, but we leave out the
part where you know Jeremiah wasin captivity for 70 years and
there might be some bad times inthere.
So we don't prepare parentsthat things may not be picture
Pinterest perfect, and so whenthese things happen, we don't
(27:04):
know where to go and where toturn because the church isn't
walking us through the hardthings in life, and so we have
to do better about training upparents to love, and it's a
daily battle.
There are days that I can lovestrongly with the things I see,
and there are days I am justlike you're kidding me.
If I could come over thereright now I would be grounding
(27:27):
you, but I love fiercely.
I always joke that I am still amama bear and that's never
going to change.
Things.
Know, things aren't what I wishthey were, but I love my child
and I will still come at you.
You know, if I, if I findsomebody that you know talking
about my kid, I'm going to comeat you, just like I would have
(27:49):
back, you know, when they werein high school.
And so I think we have to dobetter about closing our eyes
and not getting caught up on thethings we see and get caught up
on the things that are on theinside.
That's what we have to do,that's what I have to continue
to do in my life and I praythat's what others continue to
(28:09):
do as well.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I love that.
Just a few more questions.
I love that.
Thank you for sharing that.
I love the transparency, by theway.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
All right.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
So if you weren't doing battle, mom, we talked
about it a little bit in ourpre-interview chat.
I didn't even give you time toeven think about it.
I know it's a tough question.
If you weren't doing battle,mom, what's Debra doing?
Speaker 2 (28:29):
You know, I was a children's pastor for years and
I've been a preschool teacherand so I think I would probably
still be pastoring kids orteaching.
You know, I think that I wouldbe a crafter.
I kind of I'm real crafty, so Iwould.
I'm a little crafty.
(28:51):
I probably would be making it.
I know we talked aboutbeforehand how I love I'm just
like Jesus, only with moreglitter.
So I can be driving around andif I see some junk on the street
corner, you know people arethrowing that away Like I want
to grab it and I want totransform it and make something
beautiful out of it, just likeJesus does.
(29:11):
He doesn't throw us awaybecause we've got ugliness on
the outside.
He brings us in and makes usbeautiful, and I want to do that
with the junk that people throwaway.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
I love the idea.
My wife would probably lose itright now because she loved the
idea as well.
But that mentality can only goover so far.
You have to have an entiremansion to fill up all the
refurbishing projects that youwant to do.
You get why this is notfeasible, right?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, well, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
A mansion in heaven has a lot of furniture to redo.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Oh yeah, yeah, I hear you, though.
I hear you.
I love this.
You ended so many otherdifferent things and I know that
we're running out of time.
I just want to touch on it alittle bit your love for
photography.
One of the things and this issocial media for me, is not the
best place in the world.
If it wasn't for podcasts, Iprobably wouldn't be doing it,
probably at all.
(30:06):
To be fair, one of the things Iget a lot of joy at is when I
go on there and I find peoplewho share these beautiful
pictures, this scenic,especially when it's real.
It's not the AI generated with,like the real scenic.
Yes, it, it does.
It makes me want to travel,makes me want to go somewhere,
and it, just it does.
Photography.
This is obviously a passion ofyours.
(30:28):
How to get started and how areyou using it to kind of, uh,
yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
you know you know, I'll tell you how I I loved
photography when I was in highschool and, as we said before, I
grew up very poor, and so Idon't know how my mama did it,
but when I was a sophomore inhigh school, one day she
presented me with this littleNikon camera and I still have it
to this day.
I know and so I.
(30:54):
That's how I learned and Ideveloped my skill of
photography and I have to thankmy mama for that, because I
don't know how she ever saved upthe money to get it.
But she did and and I stillhave it and I love it, and so I
do photography.
I love to take pictures ofpeople.
I love all of that.
But the older I get, I'm reallygetting into birds.
(31:15):
I call myself the lazy backyardphotographer, cause there's
there comes an age.
Maybe you're not at that ageyet, but one day you hit this
age and all of a sudden you lookout the window and you're like
is that a?
Is that a Cardinal?
I mean, you start looking atbirds that you never would have
noticed before.
It's like all of a sudden, likeGod has like removed this, like
barrier on my eyes and he hasopened up that we have birds in
(31:38):
our backyard and so I enjoysitting out in our cabana and I
just like photographing thebirds.
We have a.
The last two summers we havehad a albino sparrow come to our
backyard.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
And.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I know I've gotten some pictures not too many great
pictures of it because it'svery elusive but I'm hoping he
comes back the third summer thisyear and I'm going to try to
get some good pictures of him.
And so I use it as a ministry.
I love to bless people again.
You know, I grew up without alot of stuff and so there wasn't
a lot of money to take picturesand have pictures, and I and my
(32:12):
older brother and sister weretwins and back they were born in
66.
And so, if you think about that, there weren't a lot of twins
even back then, especially likea boy and a girl, so all of
these photographers would takepictures of the twins.
And so we have all of theselike massive photos of my
brother and sister when we weregrowing up, because they were
the cutest little kids.
(32:33):
But then I came along and I waslike six weeks old before
anybody thought, you know, weshould probably get the camera
out and take a picture of her.
And so I think now that's why Ilike to take photos is because
I want people to have thosememories Maybe some of them that
I didn't have.
But I love photography, I loveold school photography with film
.
I love thinking about thepicture before you take it,
(32:55):
having to process it in yourhead instead of just you know,
pushing the button a thousandtimes and going to your computer
and editing it.
I like that one and done.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
I love that, all right.
One final question.
You know we talked a little bit.
We talked about I don't knowhow we got to a convo about
vaccines and food supplies.
I'm not sure how that evenhappened, but but we were
talking about coffee.
We were talking about coffeeand and and the coffee snobbery
that yes, I think I noticed that.
(33:26):
I think you may have noticed inme as well, but it's fine, uh,
but talk about healthy livingand sustainability and just
things that support smallbusinesses.
Share your heart real quickabout your feelings about that,
and I don't know if coffee playsa part in that at all, but any
coffee is fine by me.
I'm good with it, but go aheadyou know coffee plays a part in
(33:50):
everything.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
I think God has kind of brought all of this and
allowed us to walk through.
This is for me to start askingsome hard questions in life you
know, and I think that if youlook at what's going on with
society, all of a sudden we haveall of these diseases and we
have all of these children thatdon't know if they're boys or if
(34:13):
they're girls.
We didn't have this when I wasgrowing up, and so I think we
have to ask ourselves whatchanged, besides Satan and his
demons, which obviously isaffecting culture.
But I think it's fair and OK toask the hard questions about
what has changed, and I think weshould start looking at some of
the things, like our foodsupply and the chemicals that we
(34:35):
ingest.
My sister died of colon cancerabout 10 years ago before she
ever hit 50.
And you know, it was kind ofthen that I really started
asking myself, like where areall these chemicals coming in
our food and on my coffee thatI'm drinking?
And I want to make sure that Iam eating and ingesting and
(34:57):
doing the things that I can dowithout being totally crazy with
it.
But what can I do to adjust mylife to make sure I'm eating
pure and taking care of the bodythat God has given me?
And so I think that I do likeexpensive coffee.
That is one of my guiltypleasures in life.
I want some expensive coffee.
That is one of my guiltypleasures in life.
I want some good coffee.
I found a small friend one of mybattle cry moms is a coffee
(35:19):
roaster, and so I get coffeefrom her and I love it.
You know, I try to use skincareand soaps and things that don't
have chemicals in it, and, youknow, I think we should all
always ask about vaccines.
I think we should just beinformed, you should just be
informed.
You should just be informed andyou should just make your own
decisions on you know the thingsthat you're putting in your
(35:39):
body, and so that's kind of mythoughts.
On some of that.
I think God has given us abrain, and I think it's time to
use some of those brains andstart asking questions as to
what changed since I was a kidto where we are today.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
I love it.
I love it.
I wish I can go longer thanthat.
That coffee conversation soundsreal good right now.
Your website isbattlecrymomscom.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
If you're listening and viewing today, you can join
Debra and her team in prayingfor prodigals and for everything
else that they're lifting up inprayer.
It's good to have a community,and this sounds like it's a very
strong one.
I haven't heard anything aboutthe coffee community.
I don't know why I'm not a partof that.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Well, you need to start one of those.
Why are we not doing that?
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yes, I don't know I'm bringing that up right now, but
it's something to think aboutbecause I'm in need of a coffee
community.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yes, me too, me too.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
You already have one, so thank you very much on that
one.
I need one.
I mean I need to hook up, butthank you for jumping on here.
This was so much fun.
Thank you for sharing yourtransparent story.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
About what you're doing with Better Quiet, mom,
and how it was founded in yourday and just your life.
It's been a pleasure, deborah,thank you.
Yeah, any closing thoughts forour listeners and viewers that
are watching today.
I know there's a lot of uhthings that you're really good
at.
Obviously, I didn't even getinto your book.
I mean, they have time for it,but you know, you just read
different things.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
But any closing thoughts for our viewers and
listeners today you know, justknow that my motto is no one
fights alone, and so if you'reout there listening and you have
a prodigal child or you feellike you're all alone, you're
not.
That's a lie from the pit ofhell.
You're not alone.
There's other people goingthrough the same thing, and so
please reach out.
Reach out.
You can find me on my website,deborahmcnichcom.
(37:24):
Just go on there and send me amessage and I'll talk to you.
I'd be glad to just talk to youand just encourage you any way
I can, and you can get a copy ofmy book on there or on Amazon.
It's called battle cry.
Love goes to war, and it's justthe.
The wrestling is of my heartand what the Lord has taught me
in this season, so I hope itjust encourages people.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I love it.
I love it.
I love for you to drop that inthe comments on the episode.
On the YouTube, on the YouTubelink and that way on a YouTube
link.
That way people can find itwhenever they need to, where I
can get Battlefire Moms and thenthe book, our free book and, of
course, your personal websitetoo.
Thank you for doing this.
Thank you so much.
I'm sure we will stay in touch.
I need to be part of that copyhookup ASAP.
(38:06):
Thank you so much again foreverything you've done with this
and what you're doing for somany people around the country.
Thank you for doing this.
Thank you, god bless you.
Have a great day.
Thank you very much.
Have a great day everybody.
welcome back to one-on-one with mr you.
Of course I'm your host, mr youin studio today.
Deborah mcninch, founder of thebattle cry prayer movement.
Deborah, how are you today?
One-on-one with Mr U?
Of course I'm your host, mr UIn studio today.
Debra McNinch, founder of theBattle Cry Prayer Movement.
Debra, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
I'm great.
How are you today?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Not too shabby.
It could be better, but it'sreally good though.
Glad to have you in the housetoday.
We had a fantasticpre-interview chat.
I'm really excited about ourviewers and listeners hearing a
lot more of your stories, solet's get into it.
As customary, all I know, ourguests always ask them about
their upbringing and childhood.
Give us a picture of where youcome from and what your life was
(00:53):
like back then, and then we'llfast forward to what it's like
now.
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yes, so I was born in a small town in South Central
Kansas, so I'm a little Midwestgirl.
Small town in South CentralKansas, so I'm a little Midwest
girl.
We're known for Burger Stationand Bluegrass in my town and I'm
super proud.
I spent my whole life trying toget out of that little town and
now that I'm older I'm kind ofspending the rest of it trying
to get back.
(01:17):
So it's funny how you kind ofmiss it.
I don't know there's times Ireally miss living in my little
hometown, but it was a greatupbringing.
I had a great life.
I don't know there's times Ireally miss living in my little
hometown, but it was a greatupbringing.
I had a great life.
I came from a single momhousehold.
I grew up in the 70s and 80sand it wasn't cool at that time
to be a single mom.
So my mom was a single mombefore it was the end thing to
(01:40):
do and so we were kind of poor.
We didn't have a lot of thingskind of poor kind of poor.
We didn't have a lot of thingsin this world.
But, um, you know, I knew Ididn't have a lot of things, but
I didn't.
At the same time, I knew that mymom loved me and I had
everything I needed, and so, um,you know, I had a great life I
(02:02):
I with just a good, solidfoundation.
My mama made sure we got onthat church bus and learned
about Jesus.
I couldn't have asked for abetter upbringing.
Overall, we all have things.
I didn't have a dad growing up.
I kind of missed that.
(02:23):
There were things I missedabout that.
There were always days atschool that was bring your
father to school day, and youknow, I didn't have those kinds
of days.
I didn't have grandparents.
They had all passed away beforeI was born, and so I really I
had a mother and a brother and asister, and that was pretty
much the extent of my family,and so I always dreamed of
having a big, extended family.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Okay, no, I like that .
One thing I want to ask youabout today, because I know that
anytime a parent isn't in ahousehold, of course you're
going to be an impact, but whatit feels like to me, could you
be my circle of influence?
But from where I sit, I rarelyever hear the daughter's side of
not having a father.
I hear the son's side all thetime.
I never hear the daughter'sside.
Tell me what you think theimpact was for you being a
(03:14):
daughter, not having a father inthe household.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Oh, it was huge and I still probably struggle today
with that not needing to beenough.
You know, I think a little girlwants a dad and wants that
protector and I didn't have thatand I had a very strong,
independent mom that you knowraised me to not need a man.
You know I joke about that alot.
You know she raised us toreally be strong and independent
(03:41):
and you know, if somethingneeded fixed, she fixed it and
so I grew up just kind of beingvery independent like that and
so that probably reallytransferred over to me getting
married in my twenties and Ithink there was probably a
struggle.
We've been married 33 years now,but probably the first, you
know, 10 years, if not more.
(04:02):
There was probably really astruggle with me allowing my
husband to be, you know, thehead, if not more.
There was probably really astruggle with me allowing my
husband to be, you know, thehead of the house as God
ordained, just because of myupbringing and always thinking
that I needed to always makesure that I was solid and strong
instead of letting him lead,because I never had that as a
role model growing up.
And then that also kind ofalways has transferred over to
(04:25):
my relationship with God.
Because, you know, some peoplecan think of God the father, and
it's such a beautiful imagerythat they have.
But I don't have that, becausein my world a father leaves and
leaves his family to be hungryand maybe without electricity
and without needs that you haveand no way to pay for things.
And you know, if the car breaksdown, maybe you're not going to
(04:48):
eat, and so you know thosetypes of things.
When I think of a father, Ithink of the hurt side of it,
and so sometimes it's reallyhard for me to think of a loving
father because I didn't haveone, and so I know that it still
affects me to this day.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I know that it still affects me to this day.
I wish I can take some time togo into that from my standpoint,
because I had the samesituation and I struggled to
understand the whole God, thefather concept in real terms
because you know, I had a fatherthat didn't want me around, so
that's like we're always in timeto get away from me.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah, it's really hard.
Yeah, it's hard To get awayfrom me.
Yeah, it's really hard.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, it is hard.
I want to kind of stay on thisa little bit, because one thing
you mentioned was about youallowing your husband to lead.
For those that may notunderstand that, maybe they
watch a lot of television andmovies and maybe they take the
excuse from the media Explain tothem in a way that you think I
mean dumb and down, but youthink you need to yeah, but
(05:50):
speak to what that means.
Will you still maintain yourstrength and your individuality,
but you still respect yourhusband in the office that he
stands in?
Break the dialogue if you don'tmind sharing a little bit about
that please.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Sure I would love to.
You know we have a Christianfamily in our home, and so we
try to do things as the Bibleorders it to do that.
And you know God has made thefamily a unit and he set before
us the standards and how we areto live.
And you know God is always thefirst, and then your husband,
(06:25):
and then your husband is the onethat takes care of your wife
and the family.
And you know we have made thatword submit in our culture like
a dirty ugly word to think it'sa negative thing, but really
it's a beautiful thing that youknow I submit my life to him to
be able to and let him lead me.
Now, what does that mean?
That doesn't mean he tells mewhat to do, because he knows
(06:47):
better than that, you know.
It doesn't mean that.
You know he's got me locked inthe closet somewhere, but you
know what it means is that wemake decisions together.
It means that we are a strongunit and we make decisions
together.
But he, as the leader of thehome, I know that he's praying
and asking the Lord to lead him,and so, therefore, I can rest
(07:09):
in the fact that God is going toanswer him and tell him what to
do for our family.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Right, it totally makes sense.
You told me during ourcommunity chat there were four
things that are your favoritethings in the whole world, and I
kind of called you out becausethere were four things in there
and one thing was missing thesame person you're talking about
right now, your husband.
He wasn't in your four favoritethings.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
So I had to call you out about that.
He is.
He's not in my.
My four favorite things arevery easy.
It's Jesus, coffee, you know,glitter and cupcakes, and so
your husband should have beeninside there somewhere and
cupcakes.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Your husband should have been inside there somewhere
.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I'll do five favorite things he's my favorite thing.
That's a given.
It's a given that he's myfavorite thing.
That's a given.
I saved that.
See how that went.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Hope he's not listening right now.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
He's not.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
That's not a true saying.
I love it though.
We talked yeah, we talked a lotabout a lot of things, and you
mentioned earlier about, youknow, being in poverty.
But so your mindset was prettygood because you you had, you
felt like you had what youneeded and you never made it
feel as though you didn't haveit.
But then we talked a little bitabout the the poverty mindset
(08:23):
in your adulthood, and I'd loveto get into that a little bit
more, because I think we talkeda little bit about the poverty
mindset in your adulthood andI'd love to get into that a
little bit more, because I thinkwe talked a little bit about
some hoarding and somestockpiling, kind of going on.
You're smiling and laughing now.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Exactly A little bit, or look behind me.
Yeah, you know, definitely,when you, when you grow up with
a lack, you know you makeyourself a promise or at least I
did that when I, you know, getto be an adult, I will never
blah, blah, blah then enter, youknow, whatever it is, you're
never going to do.
And you know, when you grow upwithout a lot of stuff, when you
(08:58):
are allowed to get stuff andyou have the money to get stuff,
it's easy to get stuff and havestuff.
And so, you know I like to justlike clothes.
I only had a handful of clothesgrowing up and so now, if you
would look in my closet, youknow I'm like, wow, I have way
too many clothes.
This is, you know, definitelythings I need to address.
And you know, I know we talkedabout even like things like if
(09:21):
my car breaks down.
Today, you know, I still panic.
I have money to fix my car.
Praise God, we have money.
If my car breaks down, I canfix the car.
But in my mind I still go backto that little girl that if my
mom's car broke down, you knowthat may mean that we're only
eating, you know, bread orwhatever.
(09:42):
You know, with sandwichesforever, and so she did what she
could and she did a great jobof always taking care of us, but
there just wasn't a lot ofextra stuff.
So that poverty mindset is hardto get rid of.
Because, therefore, I feel likeI should always have a cabinet
full of food just in case.
I should always keep threemonths worth of food just in
case.
You know, I should always keep,you know, three months worth of
(10:04):
food in my house just in case.
And that all stems back to nothaving stuff like that as a kid
and even like the fun stuff youknow, just junk food and whatnot
.
You know, nobody needs thatkind of stuff, but I didn't have
a lot of that growing up andyou know, now I still can't pass
like a display of ding-dongswithout being like I'm going to
(10:25):
need to buy a box, because thatwas like Ding-dongs.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
I never heard that in years.
I know Are we still doing that.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Well, you know, not very often, but once in a while
I still, like you know, I cravea good ding-dong, because
growing up, you know, we hadfood stamps and I only would get
those.
Like, we had a little WonderBread store so we could only go
get like the old ones.
We never got the new ones, youknow, but we could go get the
day old ones and eat those.
(10:54):
You know if, if mom got foodstamps or whatever, and so those
were just treat things for me,and so to this day they still
make me smile, because Iremember how much joy a
ding-dong would have brought meback when I was eight.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Oh yeah, I totally get that.
I thought they were extinct.
I haven't seen those in years.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
I know it.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
I go back in time.
I had Twinkies.
And then I go back in time, yes, I'm like, oh, my God Wow.
They're not good anymore.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Remember, they used to be wrapped in foil.
They had little foil.
No, they don't do that anymore.
It's not as good.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
You kind of thought?
They were really special andreally taking care of being full
right.
Yes, the joke was on us though,wasn't it?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yes, it was.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
But so, in regards to the whole stockpiling and
hoarding thing, I've seen itplayed out in very, very
negative, harmful ways.
But how does your husband andfamily deal with that mindset
and make that a two partquestion how did your husband
and family deal with thatmindset and how had that impact
how you raised the kiddos?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah.
So my husband would probablylaugh at me if he was sitting
here beside me and you wereasking him.
He'd be like, yeah, she's ahoarder.
No, he wouldn't say that, I'mjust kidding.
He would say, though, thatdefinitely he doesn't probably
agree with me on as much foodand things as I keep in the
house, because he's more of themindset, you know God's always
(12:20):
going to take care of us andit's all going to be good, and I
believe that to be fine.
But I also think God brings usto prepare, and so we probably
don't see eye to eye on on someof that stuff.
But I think he knows he grew upvery poor also, and so you know
he had a whole differentexperience, but he grew up very
poor as well, you know, and sowe.
(12:41):
It's funny because we've neverraised our kids.
You know some people that growup very poor and then end up
having a good living, end uplike spoiling their children and
giving them everything thatreally wasn't our, our case of
what we did, um, we made ourkids.
They worked, you know, from thetime they turned 14, they're
like it's time to get a job andwe taught them the value of
(13:03):
money and the value of hard workand they never.
They're like it's time to get ajob and we taught them the value
of money and the value of hardwork and they never.
They never got things likeother kids did.
You know they.
We never gave them new cars, wenever did this.
We never did that.
You know.
We tried to teach them that.
You know life is.
You know, if I give yousomething you know as as a
present or as as just somethingyou could use, that means that
(13:26):
I'm giving up or somebody elseis giving up something at the
same time, because there's onlyso much money, and so I want you
to understand what a sacrificeis this thing.
Whatever it is, is for you toget, and so it's always
something to be thankful and Ithink that's just how we raise
them was to be thankful and tonot need a lot of stuff.
And none of my children it'sreally funny because none of
(13:47):
them now they're all very simple, like minimalist.
They don't like a lot of stuff,they don't like, you know, a
bunch of knickknacks sittingaround and you know all of that
kind of stuff, and so definitelythey're probably kind of the
opposite of me and just want tobe able.
I think it's that generationtoo, though they want to be able
to just get in their car andand not have a house with things
(14:09):
.
They want to be able to goplaces and have experiences.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
All right, let's move on.
So over 1,200 moms from aroundthe world are a part of this.
What is Battle Cry Moms, andhow did it begin?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yes, and so Battle Cry Moms is an amazing group of
moms that come together to prayfor their prodigal children, and
it was founded about sevenyears ago.
My story started when my oldestchild called and said mom, I'm
transgender, and at the time Ididn't know what that meant.
(14:45):
Honestly, I really didn't evenknow what it meant and I really
didn't know how my life wasgoing to change and how my
family was going to changebecause of that announcement.
And so in the days and theweeks and the months that
followed that, you know, I hadto figure out my family has
changed and what am I going todo and what does my life look
(15:06):
like now?
What used to be a really close,tight-knit family now was going
to be at a place where theydidn't talk and nobody
communicated, and it reallybroke our family apart, didn't
talk and nobody communicated,and it really broke our family
apart.
And so I had to learn reallyquickly just how to survive, and
I always kind of like to saythat it felt like, you know, I
kind of had this Malibu Barbiedream house I had built on the
(15:30):
on the beach, and I was justsitting there watching the waves
, you know, ready for thegrandkids to roll in.
I didn't realize that there wassomething, this tsunami wave on
the horizon, getting ready tocome in and just knock my house
off its foundation.
And so when that wave came, Ihad to just decide is my house
built on the rock of JesusChrist or is it on shifting sand
(15:51):
?
And what does that look likenow?
And so am I going to be okay,am I going to go on, or is this
going to bury me?
And I had to decide that myrock is on Jesus and that, no
matter what is happening to meor my family, that he was still
in control, he was still on thethrone and that he was going to
somehow take all of this ashesof sadness and pain that we had
(16:15):
and make something beautiful outof it.
And that's what he has done.
I started about four years ago.
I started Battle Cry Moms, andit's a site for moms that have
prodigal children.
It doesn't matter what yourprodigal looks like.
Maybe they are an alcoholic, ormaybe they have just wandered
from the faith, maybe theysimply don't believe, maybe
(16:35):
they're LGBTQ.
Whatever the case is, there'sall kinds of different prodigals
.
We come together and we prayand believe that our kids are
going to come back into thesaving grace of Jesus Christ and
be delivered from whatever isholding them back, and they're
going to start a relationshipwith the Lord.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I love it.
I love it.
You talked a lot and this issomething that hopefully you're
still open to discuss it but inour pre-interview chat you
talked about the role of thechurch in this journey you've
been on with Battle Cry.
I personally, my wife and I,we've done together.
We've been in ministry fornearly 30 years now and we've
seen a lot of things that peoplenow in today's vernacular
(17:16):
called church hurt.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Tell us how the church helped you or hurt or
both in this particular journey.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah.
So at the very beginning Irealized that I was now loving
somebody that the church told meI was supposed to hate.
And so, as the days and theweeks and the months were
unfolding, I realized there weretwo doors in the church.
Door number one, over here,said you know that this is a sin
(17:49):
and that you should turn yourchild out.
You should not talk to them,you know they're going to hell
the whole thing, you know.
And so that was door number onethat was presented to me.
And door number two, over here,was more of an affirming stance
that said oh no, there'snothing wrong with what they're
doing, bring them in.
God loves everybody.
(18:10):
He doesn't care what they are,you know, just, let's just bring
them in and let them be whothey want to be.
And I found myself kind of goingbetween these two camps.
Going, you know, I don't knowif the theology of either camp
is correct and I don't think Ifit in either camp.
Because on door number one, ifwe honestly think that this is a
(18:33):
sin and these kids are going tohell and all of this nonsense,
then why are we not havingprayer meetings?
How come?
I had never been to a churchthat dedicated a whole service
to praying for prodigal children.
I had never seen it and Iwasn't hearing it.
And so why is the churchcondemning them to hell but not,
(18:53):
on their knees, praying themback?
You know, and so you know.
And then, over here, if we'regoing to affirm every single
thing that doesn't line up withthe word of God and just say,
well, that's how things are nowtimes have changed, then, you
know, I think we really need toask why did Jesus come and die?
Why did we need him?
If we're not going to callanything sin, you know.
(19:15):
And so I found myself reallyjust going.
I don't think either side isright, and you know there's
nothing I can do.
I can't hate my kid, I can'thate him enough to get him to
heaven, but at the same time Irefuse to love him straight to
hell, and so I knew I was goingto have to forge a path in the
middle that taught me how tolove my child right where he's
(19:36):
at, for who he is and as mychild, but love him in the truth
, never compromising on myvalues, never, ever
underestimating that God comesto deliver and heal people, and
never believing.
You know that there's notmiracles that could happen and
that he could come in and saveany of us.
He saved me from my sin.
(19:56):
I know he could save anybodyelse from theirs.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely yeah.
I wish we had time to get intomore of that particular
conversation.
I don't think we have time todo that, but I understand that
response and those two sides.
They both challenged him toaccept.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
What exactly?
is a battle plan, they bothchallenged him to accept what
exactly is a battle plan.
So I knew right away that Iprobably couldn't get up and
just be saying some kind ofwilly-nilly prayers Like, oh
dear Lord, save my kid today.
I knew that I was going to needthere was going to be good days
, I knew there was going to bebad days and I knew I was going
to need a plan written out towalk me through all the times.
And so God just gave me a verysimple five-step plan.
It's probably things people aredoing anyway, but I wrote them
out so I would have them and Icould use them every single day.
(20:51):
The first step is the word.
We all pick a verse.
Pick a verse, find a verse inthe Bible that talks about your
situation, talks about your,that speaks to you, that maybe
the Lord has given you or thatyou have found, and pray that
verse.
Pray that verse every singleday over your child.
I write that verse everywhere.
(21:11):
I put it in my phone.
When my child or children call,they all have a verse.
That verse rolls across thephone.
It rolls across the phone.
It rolls across the phonebefore I answer it, and so I put
that verse.
Wherever I can put it?
I put it on my bathroom mirror,I put it in my drawer, I put it
in my car when I'm sitting atthe stoplight, I can pull it out
and I can pray that verse.
And so find a verse that speaksto your child, pray it every
(21:35):
single day, never stop prayingit.
The second one is worship.
We worship in our group.
You know, the Lord is worthy ofour worship.
He is good and he is a holy Godand he is worthy to be
worshiped.
He's worthy to be worshiped inthe good times and the bad times
my circumstances, that doesn'tmatter because he is worthy to
be worshiped.
And so we worship in our group,and so we have a list group,
(21:57):
and so we we have a list ofsongs.
Find some songs, find two orthree worship songs that speak
to you and put those on whenthose bad days come and and they
will come.
I don't have all good days.
Last week was a really bad weekand I spent a lot of time
crying last week, to be honestwith you.
And so what did I do?
I went back to my battle planand I put on that worship music
(22:18):
that's to me.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Three prayer.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Make a list of things to pray.
We have a list in our group,just a good place to start.
Find 10 prayers, 10 things thatyou want to pray every day for
your child or your family, andwrite those down.
Pray them every single day.
Don't stop praying.
Four is declare God's promises.
Look up five or 10 promises inthe Bible.
(22:41):
The book is full of promises.
Just find the 10 that you like.
Start declaring those promisesevery single day.
Declare them aloud.
Don't let Satan get in yourhead.
Don't let him try to tell youthings aren't going to change,
because God's word is true andhis promises are true.
So start declaring thosepromises.
And the fifth step is very easyFind a community.
(23:02):
Join us at Battle, cry Moms,and if that's not the right
place for you, find two or threefriends that are going to come
along beside you and pray withyou and believe with you.
Get friends that will stand withyou, not ones that will talk
about it behind your back.
Find the ones that will say youknow what?
This is nothing that God can'tfix, and we're going to go
(23:23):
together before the throne andwe're going to lift up your
child until he comes back.
So that's just the easyfive-step battle plan.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I love it.
I love it.
We've got to find some peopleto find that whenever they are
in need of that five-step plan,you seem to have a friend right
now that's willing to stand byyou.
Here's a comment from HonestChristian Conversations.
Deborah's a powerhouse, lovelywoman in her heart for this
difficult topic.
I really enjoy chatting withher on my podcast too.
Battle Cry Moms is amazing.
You already have some friendsout here willing to support you.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Very good.
We love it.
We love everybody that wants topartner with us.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
One final question in regardsto that, and then we'll move on.
We're getting pretty close tothe end of our episode.
For today, one of the thingsthat I personally found we have
some challenges in our householdwith one of our daughters Not
exactly the same same, but to adegree similar and I think I
(24:22):
I've battled the biggest thingwas not that I I had a issue
with loving my daughter even inthe midst of the situation.
I think one thing you mentioned, which is consistency, not just
in prayer and worship.
I think that'd be consistent inthe love part too, because that
has me you're saying that Ilove this person the way Christ
(24:42):
loved me, or because Christloved me and Christ loves always
been consistent.
So it's like the struggle forme was showing that consistently
Right, and then no one.
How do you love somebody thatyou don't recognize?
How do you love somebody thatyou don't doesn't look the same
as the person that you don'trecognize?
How do you love somebody thatyou don't look the same as the
person that you started outloving?
They change drastically.
(25:03):
My wife tells me all the timethat I've changed and everything
.
She doesn't stop loving mebecause of that If I changed to
somebody else that was a polaropposite to what we started off
being.
That's different.
That could then make things alot difficult.
But how are you doing that part?
How are you being consistentlyloving?
(25:23):
Do you mind briefly answeringthat consistently loving in this
situation and not bringing yourown stuff into it and just
continuing to love withoutconditions, if that makes sense?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, for me I think it's definitely been.
The challenge has been that Iam changing, and I always joke
that my child was transgender,but I'm the one that's changing
and so had we not been walkingthrough this, I wouldn't know
the Lord like I know Him rightnow.
And so I definitely havechanged in my life the more I
(25:57):
grow closer to Him.
And so I ask Him all the time,the Lord, to blind me, and if it
takes to physically blind myeyes, then to do it, but to
blind me for the things I'mseeing on the outside and to
pray and believe for my childbecause of His heart.
I think it says in the Wordthat God doesn't look at the
(26:18):
outside, he looks of his heart.
You know.
I think it says, you know inthe word that you know God
doesn't look at the outside, helooks at the heart, and I I
believe that's one of thereasons, because the outside
could change the things we'regoing to do is we're going to
change, but his heart is thesame, you know, as it always was
, and I think as the church, thecapital C church, we have to do
a better job of trainingparents, and you know we have
these baby dedications and wepray Jeremiah 29, 11, and we
(26:42):
pretend, like you know,everybody's going to have this
hope and this amazing futurebecause that's what the word
says.
Well, yeah, that is what theword says, but we leave out the
part where you know Jeremiah wasin captivity for 70 years and
there might be some bad times inthere.
So we don't prepare parentsthat things may not be picture
Pinterest perfect, and so whenthese things happen, we don't
(27:04):
know where to go and where toturn because the church isn't
walking us through the hardthings in life, and so we have
to do better about training upparents to love, and it's a
daily battle.
There are days that I can lovestrongly with the things I see,
and there are days I am justlike you're kidding me.
If I could come over thereright now I would be grounding
(27:27):
you, but I love fiercely.
I always joke that I am still amama bear and that's never
going to change.
Things.
Know, things aren't what I wishthey were, but I love my child
and I will still come at you.
You know, if I, if I findsomebody that you know talking
about my kid, I'm going to comeat you, just like I would have
(27:49):
back, you know, when they werein high school.
And so I think we have to dobetter about closing our eyes
and not getting caught up on thethings we see and get caught up
on the things that are on theinside.
That's what we have to do,that's what I have to continue
to do in my life and I praythat's what others continue to
(28:09):
do as well.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I love that.
Just a few more questions.
I love that.
Thank you for sharing that.
I love the transparency, by theway.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
All right.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
So if you weren't doing battle, mom, we talked
about it a little bit in ourpre-interview chat.
I didn't even give you time toeven think about it.
I know it's a tough question.
If you weren't doing battle,mom, what's Debra doing?
Speaker 2 (28:29):
You know, I was a children's pastor for years and
I've been a preschool teacherand so I think I would probably
still be pastoring kids orteaching.
You know, I think that I wouldbe a crafter.
I kind of I'm real crafty, so Iwould.
I'm a little crafty.
(28:51):
I probably would be making it.
I know we talked aboutbeforehand how I love I'm just
like Jesus, only with moreglitter.
So I can be driving around andif I see some junk on the street
corner, you know people arethrowing that away Like I want
to grab it and I want totransform it and make something
beautiful out of it, just likeJesus does.
(29:11):
He doesn't throw us awaybecause we've got ugliness on
the outside.
He brings us in and makes usbeautiful, and I want to do that
with the junk that people throwaway.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
I love the idea.
My wife would probably lose itright now because she loved the
idea as well.
But that mentality can only goover so far.
You have to have an entiremansion to fill up all the
refurbishing projects that youwant to do.
You get why this is notfeasible, right?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, well, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
A mansion in heaven has a lot of furniture to redo.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Oh yeah, yeah, I hear you, though.
I hear you.
I love this.
You ended so many otherdifferent things and I know that
we're running out of time.
I just want to touch on it alittle bit your love for
photography.
One of the things and this issocial media for me, is not the
best place in the world.
If it wasn't for podcasts, Iprobably wouldn't be doing it,
probably at all.
(30:06):
To be fair, one of the things Iget a lot of joy at is when I
go on there and I find peoplewho share these beautiful
pictures, this scenic,especially when it's real.
It's not the AI generated with,like the real scenic.
Yes, it, it does.
It makes me want to travel,makes me want to go somewhere,
and it, just it does.
Photography.
This is obviously a passion ofyours.
(30:28):
How to get started and how areyou using it to kind of, uh,
yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
you know you know, I'll tell you how I I loved
photography when I was in highschool and, as we said before, I
grew up very poor, and so Idon't know how my mama did it,
but when I was a sophomore inhigh school, one day she
presented me with this littleNikon camera and I still have it
to this day.
I know and so I.
(30:54):
That's how I learned and Ideveloped my skill of
photography and I have to thankmy mama for that, because I
don't know how she ever saved upthe money to get it.
But she did and and I stillhave it and I love it, and so I
do photography.
I love to take pictures ofpeople.
I love all of that.
But the older I get, I'm reallygetting into birds.
(31:15):
I call myself the lazy backyardphotographer, cause there's
there comes an age.
Maybe you're not at that ageyet, but one day you hit this
age and all of a sudden you lookout the window and you're like
is that a?
Is that a Cardinal?
I mean, you start looking atbirds that you never would have
noticed before.
It's like all of a sudden, likeGod has like removed this, like
barrier on my eyes and he hasopened up that we have birds in
(31:38):
our backyard and so I enjoysitting out in our cabana and I
just like photographing thebirds.
We have a.
The last two summers we havehad a albino sparrow come to our
backyard.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
And.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I know I've gotten some pictures not too many great
pictures of it because it'svery elusive but I'm hoping he
comes back the third summer thisyear and I'm going to try to
get some good pictures of him.
And so I use it as a ministry.
I love to bless people again.
You know, I grew up without alot of stuff and so there wasn't
a lot of money to take picturesand have pictures, and I and my
(32:12):
older brother and sister weretwins and back they were born in
66.
And so, if you think about that, there weren't a lot of twins
even back then, especially likea boy and a girl, so all of
these photographers would takepictures of the twins.
And so we have all of theselike massive photos of my
brother and sister when we weregrowing up, because they were
the cutest little kids.
(32:33):
But then I came along and I waslike six weeks old before
anybody thought, you know, weshould probably get the camera
out and take a picture of her.
And so I think now that's why Ilike to take photos is because
I want people to have thosememories Maybe some of them that
I didn't have.
But I love photography, I loveold school photography with film
.
I love thinking about thepicture before you take it,
(32:55):
having to process it in yourhead instead of just you know,
pushing the button a thousandtimes and going to your computer
and editing it.
I like that one and done.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
I love that, all right.
One final question.
You know we talked a little bit.
We talked about I don't knowhow we got to a convo about
vaccines and food supplies.
I'm not sure how that evenhappened, but but we were
talking about coffee.
We were talking about coffeeand and and the coffee snobbery
that yes, I think I noticed that.
(33:26):
I think you may have noticed inme as well, but it's fine, uh,
but talk about healthy livingand sustainability and just
things that support smallbusinesses.
Share your heart real quickabout your feelings about that,
and I don't know if coffee playsa part in that at all, but any
coffee is fine by me.
I'm good with it, but go aheadyou know coffee plays a part in
(33:50):
everything.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
I think God has kind of brought all of this and
allowed us to walk through.
This is for me to start askingsome hard questions in life you
know, and I think that if youlook at what's going on with
society, all of a sudden we haveall of these diseases and we
have all of these children thatdon't know if they're boys or if
(34:13):
they're girls.
We didn't have this when I wasgrowing up, and so I think we
have to ask ourselves whatchanged, besides Satan and his
demons, which obviously isaffecting culture.
But I think it's fair and OK toask the hard questions about
what has changed, and I think weshould start looking at some of
the things, like our foodsupply and the chemicals that we
(34:35):
ingest.
My sister died of colon cancerabout 10 years ago before she
ever hit 50.
And you know, it was kind ofthen that I really started
asking myself, like where areall these chemicals coming in
our food and on my coffee thatI'm drinking?
And I want to make sure that Iam eating and ingesting and
(34:57):
doing the things that I can dowithout being totally crazy with
it.
But what can I do to adjust mylife to make sure I'm eating
pure and taking care of the bodythat God has given me?
And so I think that I do likeexpensive coffee.
That is one of my guiltypleasures in life.
I want some expensive coffee.
That is one of my guiltypleasures in life.
I want some good coffee.
I found a small friend one of mybattle cry moms is a coffee
(35:19):
roaster, and so I get coffeefrom her and I love it.
You know, I try to use skincareand soaps and things that don't
have chemicals in it, and, youknow, I think we should all
always ask about vaccines.
I think we should just beinformed, you should just be
informed.
You should just be informed andyou should just make your own
decisions on you know the thingsthat you're putting in your
(35:39):
body, and so that's kind of mythoughts.
On some of that.
I think God has given us abrain, and I think it's time to
use some of those brains andstart asking questions as to
what changed since I was a kidto where we are today.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
I love it.
I love it.
I wish I can go longer thanthat.
That coffee conversation soundsreal good right now.
Your website isbattlecrymomscom.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
If you're listening and viewing today, you can join
Debra and her team in prayingfor prodigals and for everything
else that they're lifting up inprayer.
It's good to have a community,and this sounds like it's a very
strong one.
I haven't heard anything aboutthe coffee community.
I don't know why I'm not a partof that.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Well, you need to start one of those.
Why are we not doing that?
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yes, I don't know I'm bringing that up right now, but
it's something to think aboutbecause I'm in need of a coffee
community.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yes, me too, me too.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
You already have one, so thank you very much on that
one.
I need one.
I mean I need to hook up, butthank you for jumping on here.
This was so much fun.
Thank you for sharing yourtransparent story.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
About what you're doing with Better Quiet, mom,
and how it was founded in yourday and just your life.
It's been a pleasure, deborah,thank you.
Yeah, any closing thoughts forour listeners and viewers that
are watching today.
I know there's a lot of uhthings that you're really good
at.
Obviously, I didn't even getinto your book.
I mean, they have time for it,but you know, you just read
different things.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
But any closing thoughts for our viewers and
listeners today you know, justknow that my motto is no one
fights alone, and so if you'reout there listening and you have
a prodigal child or you feellike you're all alone, you're
not.
That's a lie from the pit ofhell.
You're not alone.
There's other people goingthrough the same thing, and so
please reach out.
Reach out.
You can find me on my website,deborahmcnichcom.
(37:24):
Just go on there and send me amessage and I'll talk to you.
I'd be glad to just talk to youand just encourage you any way
I can, and you can get a copy ofmy book on there or on Amazon.
It's called battle cry.
Love goes to war, and it's justthe.
The wrestling is of my heartand what the Lord has taught me
in this season, so I hope itjust encourages people.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I love it.
I love it.
I love for you to drop that inthe comments on the episode.
On the YouTube, on the YouTubelink and that way on a YouTube
link.
That way people can find itwhenever they need to, where I
can get Battlefire Moms and thenthe book, our free book and, of
course, your personal websitetoo.
Thank you for doing this.
Thank you so much.
I'm sure we will stay in touch.
I need to be part of that copyhookup ASAP.
(38:06):
Thank you so much again foreverything you've done with this
and what you're doing for somany people around the country.
Thank you for doing this.
Thank you, god bless you.
Have a great day.
Thank you very much.
Have a great day everybody.
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