Ep 208 The Curiosity Compass: Questioning Everything with Heart

Ep 208 One World in a New World with Matt Hampton🧩 What if your search for truth wasn’t about finding answers—but asking better questions?In this deeply reflective and often humorous episode of One World in a New World, Zen Benefiel speaks with Matt Hampton, tech entrepreneur, podcaster, and relentless questioner.

Known for his natural curiosity, sharp mind, and willingness to dance on the edge of belief and skepticism, Matt brings his full self to a conversation that spans inner exploration, quantum computing, spiritual questioning, and the challenge of facing what we don’t know.

This isn’t just about tech or talk—it’s about how to hold curiosity and humility in a world that demands certainty.

💡 Can we live in the question without rushing to answers?

💡 What does radical curiosity unlock in leadership, life, and love?

💡 How do we engage honestly with our inner questions—and each other?

🎧 Join us in this refreshingly honest conversation about belief, inquiry, and the joy of not knowing it all.

Connect with Matt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/the-matt-hampton/

Matt's Podcast: https://irreverenthealth.com/

#MattHampton #OneWorldPodcast #RadicalCuriosity #QuestionEverything #LeadershipWithHeart #TransformationalDialogue #ExploringBeliefs #zenbenefiel #apocalypticchats

Join this channel to get access to perks:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuZl_29zHxehqeL89KSCWFA/join

_______

Assisting in harmony among people and planet: https://planetarycitizens.net

Connect with Zen: https://linkedin.com/zenbenefiel

Zen's books: https://amazon.com/author/zendor

Zen's Coaching: https://BeTheDream.com

Zen's CV et al: https://zenbenefiel.com

The Octopus Movement (non-linear thinkers): https://theoctopusmovement.org

Live and Let Live Global Peace Movement: https://liveandletlive.org

Activation Products: https://bit.ly/btdactivation

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Explore the thoughtless sphere. Embark on a life changing
journey of self discovery. Embrace harmony with self, with
others, with Earth, one world ina new world.
Zen Benefield skillfully ignitesconversations, guiding guests to
reveal personal journeys and perspectives.

(00:25):
Listeners are inspired to seek knowledge and find wisdom in
their own lives. Join this transformative journey
as we navigate the depth of human experience.
Namaste and in La Ketch and welcome to this episode of One
World in a new World. I'm your host, Zen Benefiel, and
as always, please do like, subscribe and share, make some

(00:49):
comments. Those are invaluable and they
work for everyone. So please do so and by all
means, stop by Planetary citizens.net and pick up a copy
of my latest book. It's called Awakening, Excuse
me, Planetary citizens, Awakening the Heart and
Humanity. And I know you'll love it.

(01:10):
It's getting some great reviews on Amazon.
So get your free copy. And if you have an opportunity,
please offer a review as well. So this week's guest is Matt
Hampton. Now Matt's got a really
interesting life in in his tech world and explorations and gosh,

(01:30):
he's been he connects cool tech and cool people and he's been
doing so for almost 3 decades now.
He is founder and CEO of of multiple organizations, Envoy
design solutions architect. He's a founder of head shop,
he's a chief technology officer,light writer.

(01:53):
He's a chief technology author at Mart dot ARC and game for
good as well. And so he's also a new business
director for Studio LLC. So I know this is going to be an
interesting jaunt into the life of the Matt Hampton, and we'll
be right back. So don't go away.
Do you ever feel like you're in your 40 days and nights in the

(02:14):
desert? Well, many do.
There's too much frustration, pain and suffering in the world
today. And I help people through that
to find joy and happiness in their lives, to create action
plans and find a way to achieve their goals.
I've done that with many, if my reputation online is anything
like I show up in person. You've got a great score here.

(02:38):
So Matt, it's just so great to have you here.
I know we've been dancing aroundeach other for a while on
LinkedIn. I really love what you've been
doing and the fact that you're continuing to do so.
So thanks for being with us and I'm looking forward to sharing
this great conversation. Yeah, thanks.
Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
So as you know, you know, we we're doing a little prelim and,

(03:00):
and our objective with these conversations are to illustrate
how we are bereft of having the inner conversations and bringing
those out to where we can share and find some navigable truths
in that that we can share and build upon in life.
And most of us really withhold that from others because, you

(03:22):
know, sometimes our experiences and our lives are kind of weird
or we think they are and we don't want to share those
because we think that other people might think we're a bit
weird or different and, and shy away from us accordingly.
Now, how did you find your firstinkling that, you know, there's
this merging of a inner and outer world for yourself?

(03:44):
Was it, you know, did it happen as a, a child or did it advance
and, and kind of build upon itself throughout your life?
You know, that's an interesting question.
I, I and one I hadn't asked before talking to you because to
me, I guess the, the right way to say this is there's always

(04:05):
been a layer that I couldn't putmy finger on between me and the
things I saw. Like, you know, and it's just
like this. I don't know the best way to put
it, but like, remember the, you know, obviously the famous
Matrix movie, right, With a bluepill, red pill scene, right?

(04:26):
Yeah, I do remember very distinctly seeing that movie for
the first time and just having this sort of like blissful
epiphany, like aha moment where I'm like, that's what I'm
missing. Like there's a blue pill out
there or a red pill out there rather that I just don't know

(04:47):
where it's at, you know, like, Idon't know, obviously this
movie, I can't jump into there, but that's where I, you know,
like I kind of, I wanted so desperately somebody to just
hand me the red pill. And and like, you know,
obviously this this whole red pill blue pill thing has become
the subject of Internet memes and all kinds of other stuff.
So clearly I'm not the only one out there that had this sort of

(05:10):
latch on to this. But, you know, even, you know, I
don't know how long ago that movie came out.
It's been a minute now, but but ever since then, I've just sort
of used that as sort of a barometer of saying like, well,
you know what? Like there is something else out
there. I don't know what it is.
I can't put my finger on it. And just like Neo in that movie,

(05:30):
it's like, you know, there was just this thing eating away at
me that I, you know. And it's from the inside too.
From the. It's only from the inside.
Yeah. There's nothing externally
guiding that, right? Yeah, I met people.
I mean, look, I, I have two art degrees, went to art school.
So all those that lifestyle, youknow, and that kind of

(05:52):
personality that draws into art school environments and that
kind of creative Petri dish, if you will, like I have a pretty.
Open mind and it's and it comes from an inspired place within
you too. Artist, musicians, all, all
these arts and culture, you knowthat we've diminished over the
years because, you know, we're trying to meet state standards
in school now. Yeah.

(06:12):
And and it's not really giving our youth the opportunity to
become self critical, self examining, let alone socialize
in ways that are beneficial. Sure, each other.
Well, I think what when I was going through this like for
myself, like I, I where I was going with that, I think was,

(06:35):
you know, I, I have a pretty open mind.
So when somebody says I can see your aura or something like
this, right? I'm like, OK and believe it
sometimes, don't believe it other times, but overall, I'm
willing to listen, right? Like I'm not.
I might judge you intensely as soon as we're no longer in
company, but like I, I, I, I'm not.

(06:55):
I'm I'm an honest comment. Yeah, that's, that's really
honest. And and yet you know it in that
I, I do too, right. And yet there's this next layer
of curiosity. Well, what if, you know, what do
they see? What might it mean to them if
they're seeing a part of me thatI can't see?

(07:17):
What might I learn from their perspective or reflection of
that that could benefit me? Well, we have to be open and,
and somewhat transparent, right?Because nothing's hidden to
those who can see. And yet we're, we're offense
like, oh, that too. That's too much for me, right?
And, and I don't want to know. And, and they're all wacky and

(07:38):
weird. And, and I think this is human
nature. We do this because have enough
direct experience of that other aspect of life to really
understand and be able to navigate it with efficacy.
Yeah. And I think it's one of those

(07:59):
things that sort of I, I've always, first of all, around the
judgement thing. I think it's funny because
people like, oh, I don't judge. I'm like, OK, so then you're a
liar. Like that's incorrect.
Like, I mean, everybody judges, right?
Like you don't, you know, And tosort of like, if you're not
lying to me on purpose, you're lying to yourself by accident,

(08:19):
right. And, and I don't really
understand how people can do that because like, if I'm doing
something stupid, right, I mightfight you on it because I don't
want to be called out on my bullshit, but I definitely know
I'm doing something stupid, right?
Like, I mean, there's no question mark, right?
I'm not like, you know, but like, you know, when somebody
says to me, hey, I see auras andI like your aura today.

(08:43):
You know, you can take this a couple ways, right?
And most people will be like, this person's crazy, right?
And that that that's a very common reaction.
Absolutely. Then there's the other reaction,
which is, Oh my God, I love it. I wish I could see it.
And they're like gushing and like overflowing with like, you
know, that's. The other end of the.
Spectrum. Yeah, that's the other end of
the spectrum. And I'm sort of like always I I,

(09:04):
I've called myself the 50 yard line kid for as long as I can
remember because almost everything I do, I try to take
this like middle of the field sort of way of thinking about
it. Like this person says they can
see auras, so they see somethingthat they are interpreting as an
aura, which is either one of twothings.

(09:25):
They're either lying to get attention, which we have to just
assume that that's not a universal thing, right?
Or they're seeing you. And I think we agree on, on what
Orange is, right? Just take a more benign thing,
right? We, we, we say that's orange.
We could point to something that's orange, right?
Like this cup that I have in front of me like this, we we

(09:48):
might agree is orange, but if myfather who's colorblind might
not agree with that's orange. But even he whatever he does
see, he knows that this is what other people call orange.
So even though he doesn't necessarily see it because he
understands that it is not what he sees because of his color
blindness, he can still say this, whether green, purple,

(10:11):
whatever he's actually saying. Now that's where self
examination comes in and the peeling back of the layers of
who we are, what we know about ourselves, how we are.
And you know, we often go through life without those kinds
of questions of others. You know, how do you see me?
What, what do you sense from me?Am I feeling like I'm authentic?

(10:32):
Am I trustworthy and am I able to fit this notion that you have
so that we can have an intelligent conversation without
going to either end of those spectrums and, and just get real
and raw and, and just explore, right?
How often are we able to do thatwith any kind of relative ease?

(10:54):
You know, and, and I think that's one of those things that
sort of, you know, going back tothe aura thing, right?
Like if your first example was somebody saying, I see auras and
you had that experience and you left that conversation with
whatever you left with, right? The next time somebody says, oh,
I can speak to spirits, right? So now this is sort of an
evolution of, of things, right? It's like another thing that's

(11:15):
potentially untrue, potentially misinterpreted, potentially,
potentially, potentially right. Right.
But I in my view, and it's sort of it opens the metaphorical
door just a little bit more thanit was open before, right?
So if you are of the mindset that I happen to be of and you
say, OK, I don't need to believethis person.

(11:37):
I can in fact think they're batshit crazy, but I'm going to
listen. And to your earlier point, let
me peel back what it is they areseeing.
How do I interpret what they're seeing?
Because maybe not all of what they're saying is bullshit.
Maybe. Maybe there's like a piece of it
that's sort of a little bit overthe edge.
Or maybe they don't understand. Or maybe they what's?

(11:59):
Going on inside of them, yet there's this compelling prompt
from within them to share this. And you know, having your
background mine as well. We're aware of the various
layers of reality that are present.
Like you were talking about the perception and, and perspective
that your dad had with the colorblindness, right?

(12:21):
That's a different layer that others don't have that he has to
learn how to integrate well froma perspective of consciousness
in, in the consciousness studiesand quantum physics now and, and
these kinds of things that looking at the electromagnetic
spectrum and the various layers that is has and the frequencies

(12:42):
within each. There's also some theories of
everything that says, you know, we're as humans, we're able to
access nine other dimensions. Right.
Yeah. Then there's another
experiential process that that was with.
What was it? Edward close and Vernon Neppy

(13:03):
presented this Theory of Everything paper called the
Triadic Dimensional Distinction Vortical Paradigm well.
I'll say that 5. Times, that was, yeah, exactly.
TDPTDPP is what they're abbreviating for.
Then there's another now that was in 2010 that they published
it. Back in the 50s, there was a guy

(13:23):
named William Swigard that developed a process called Multi
Plane Awareness. That was actually a facilitated
process. We have a facilitator and an
experiencer and the experiencer is taken through 9 planes of
consciousness and and in order to integrate their body on each

(13:44):
of those planes and then be ableto see out through it and learn
what they can in that brief timeand then bring it back.
So these kinds of corollary, youknow, data acts if you will 1
experiential, 1 purely theory and yet the 2 are really saying

(14:04):
the same kind of thing. So if we've got that ability,
how do we interpret that as human beings when we're open to
this non linear, non local spacethat few understand, let alone
can be able to articulate, rightas to where this information is
coming from, why it's there, youknow, the prompting that began

(14:27):
it to begin with, you know, and maybe it's as simple as just the
desire to love and be loved and to be in that space.
How does that relate in in your discovery process?
So it's funny, a couple years ago we started a podcast, which
was just supposed to be for fun in COVID.
It's turned into, I think we just you and I are going to

(14:49):
actually have a different conversation on that show.
But that's episode like 150 something now, right?
And the interesting part about that is that that blue pill, red
pill sort of angst that I felt back in the day, right, has
found an outlet through this medium because I get to talk to

(15:10):
people about all kinds of weird stuff, right?
Like, and it's great. But here's where it's here's
here's where it starts to get like, I find myself having to
keep going up levels to see wider in order to understand
something I had just seen right and and right.
You just have to keep going up, keep ascending until you can see

(15:31):
the edges, right? And one of those great examples
is like, again, not to beat thisaura thing to death, but when
you follow that line. Well, there's a certain amount
of consistency that needs to be followed through, right?
Yeah, but but follow that for 25.
Yeah, totally. But follow that for 30 years,
right. I have these conversations for
30 years. So I have 30 years of one step
further. That door keeps opening for 30

(15:52):
years, a little bit at a time. A little bit at a time, right?
I can relate. Yeah, now, you know, I most
recently had breakfast with somesome kind of esoteric friends
not so long ago. And we got into a very
interesting conversation about soul families and the Akashic
Records and how, you know, like this whole idea of accessing

(16:13):
this sort of universal intelligence, if you will, or
universal spirituality, if you, you know, if you said a
different way, but, but, and that you just keep going back
into it, right? Like, so you just keep going
back into the matrix, right? Like, so it's not, you know, you
know, your, your your wife, yourfriends, your family, your kids,
what whoever you know, your neighbor, your janitor, like

(16:34):
whoever. These are people that you
probably in this line of thinking are interacting with
that a more, you know, cosmic level, right?
Like you're not well. Your discussions are different
as a as proof of that. Correct, right.
But here's the funny part though.
It's like, yeah, here's the funny part though.
Like I think that that is equally possible that that's all

(16:57):
complete horseshit, like right? Like so it's complete it.
And that's where it gets interesting because now let's
talk about Venn diagrams for a second, right?
If you Venn diagram, a soul family or the concept of the
Acacia records with a quantum computer that I'm fairly, you
know, versed in nowadays becauseof the quantum computer company,

(17:19):
you'll notice that like that entropy that comes out of a
quantum computer is cosmic in scale, right?
It it is not anything that we know of on this planet, right?
You can I I can have a quantum computer dish out a number
quadrillions of you know, like digits long and it'll never

(17:39):
really right. Like I mean it's literally
pulling. There was the one that just
recently they did a a computation that would have
taken. Yeah, that was.
Google age and no. 4 septillion years.
Yeah, yeah, the the universe is only like 14.
Now here's the interesting thingto it and speaking computers
that there's a a term that's used in quantum computing and

(18:02):
and the recursive function. Right.
Right. So what's your understanding of
that? Well, I, this isn't really like
about the science of a quantum computer.
And I think that's kind of diving more into that.
I think what I'm I'm well, I. Think it's reflective of both
of. The reason I'm asking this

(18:22):
question is because you know recursive function is the system
that queries itself for problem.Solving.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, but that's the, that's
the. What are we?
What are we? I see where you're going with
this. OK, sorry, I didn't.
I didn't see where you're going yet.
OK, so I I hope I opened that door a little bit further.
It's the same way you have just validated that you're constantly

(18:44):
going back in, you're dissolvinginto self, you're going, OK,
this could be bullshit, it couldbe true, you know, don't know.
Let's figure it out, right? Find some way to query that
restore maybe not restores or restores the connection right?
Because the betas right 15,000 years ago, said paraphrased.

(19:07):
We're all divine threads Incarnate, connected to Source,
capable of God consciousness. Well, what's that mean?
Yeah. Well, I mean again.
So now here's this Venn diagram that I was talking about.
Yeah, yeah. Now, now what you're talking
about right there. Could we call that an Akashic
download? Probably.
Like, you know, like, I mean, weall.
Kinds of terms, could we? Call it.

(19:29):
Experiencing and reflecting. Correct.
Could we call it a connection toour soul family?
Probably. I mean, we can call this
anything we've talked about already because but here's the
point, I guess. And This is why I was drawing a
differentiation between the physical, you know, reality of a
a recursive function, which which explains the mechanism of

(19:52):
action by which the computer will come to a conclusion, you
know, versus that it's possible even at all, right?
Like, so I get when I took out of the Google Willow thing,
right? 4 septillion years, you know, is
obviously a ridiculous amount oftime, right?
Several 100 orders, thousand orders of magnitude over the

(20:14):
time the universe has been in existence, right.
Like, I mean, it's, you know, it's.
Supposedly. Supposedly.
Whatever. Yeah, again, another one of
those. Again, Can you believe?
It yeah, exactly right, right. But but here's what I did, which
by the way, you want to talk to get we can get real weird about
this some other time. But but that that same math
formula technically also proves that multiple dimensions exist.

(20:35):
So the multiverse actually has amathematical foundation now
through that experiment. Which you know, and Steven
brought that out with M theory some time ago.
But he so here's the difference though, like there's the and
here's where we're going, right?It all kind of loops back on
each other, right when you have function right, correct, right.
Well, yes, I guess you're right.But if a guy says, Hey, I got

(21:00):
this idea right? And and here's the idea.
It's one thing. And then he that person might be
able to get a bunch of people onboard with believing it.
Like they might even start a religion around it.
They can cults have been startedon less, you know what I mean?
Like, but there's a whole different thing when we actually
have a, a computer that comes out with a math formula that
supports that right now, we've taken that to a completely

(21:23):
different level of reality rightnow.
It's gone from like, well, I gotthis kind of Batty idea that
might be right, but it sounds good.
And I'm an, I'm a real orator. So I'm going to be able to say
it in an articulate, convincing way.
And maybe I get a bunch of people to follow me around and,
and whatnot. But math is a different thing
altogether, right? Because math now gives us a

(21:44):
foundation to say, oh. Well, I don't need to follow.
I don't need to fill out. I just have to look down.
Yeah, just here's the math. And I hate to, to reduce
everything to that, but, you know, I was a Catholic school
person K through 12. And my running joke, which I did
not invent, but I think it's funny nonetheless, is if 18
years of Catholic school won't beat Catholicism out of you,

(22:05):
nothing will, right. Like it's, you know, and, and
I'm not shitting on Catholics. What I am saying though, is my
experience in that construct wasnot favorable.
Not because I was like molested by a priest or anything like
that, but. It just didn't make me I, I, I

(22:27):
think that with that I, I totally get it.
I grew up with a bunch of Catholic kids.
We had a Catholic school in townas well as the regular middle
school, and then we all came together in high school.
What I've found, probably similar to you, is that these
systems are set up for dominanceand control of populations as
opposed to the Enlightenment of it.

(22:48):
And they're all pretty much thisway, except those who remained
independent and just said, hey, you might want to take a look at
this. Yeah, but that that wasn't
wildly popular in the 80s when Iwas in Catholic school, right.
Like I mean it was basically. Wildly popular for millennia.

(23:08):
It's yeah, well, I mean, I get to the point where we start to.
Question things, right? But it's so so when I, when I
looked at that, I said, you knowwhat?
This is interesting that no one's paying attention to.
It would seem the more I learn in school, the more I could draw
a line that says religion has always explained stuff we can't

(23:28):
explain. And as we can explain more, the
purview of religion shrinks. And and that's not my opinion.
That's just, well, you could look back.
I mean, at one point in our history, recorded history, by
the way, this which means, you know, not that long ago, we
blamed eclipses on angry gods. We bring blamed drought on angry

(23:51):
gods. Like we must have done something
wrong. Grab the the all the first born
males and let's slaughter them on this pyramid because that'll
make our crops grow. Like this isn't hyperbole.
This happened, right? Like this is right.
So when you look at the world through that sort of lens, you
say, OK, and maybe it's because of where we where I was born,

(24:13):
but I, I say to myself, I'm like, how at any point could
this ever have made sense to anyhuman who's thinking at all?
And yet the very one in particular, you know, the the
Bible says seek the mysteries ofGod.
Well, what you know, what does that mean?
Right? We're trying to explain, we're
trying to understand Now we're looking at, OK, the the 666, you

(24:35):
know, what used to be the sign of the devil?
And now we're understanding it'scarbon atom, and it's really the
number of man, because we all are.
But see, that's another one of those.
Science and spirit, science and religion, right?
Have to begin to say the same thing.
Otherwise none are truly valid, right?
They just give us more questionsand and a deeper dive into the

(24:57):
potential of reality as we experience it.
And I think that the bigger problem that when you, if you're
going to ever try to marry science and religion in any way,
shape or form right there, thereisn't really a common
denominator there because if, well, first of all, if there
were, how many millions I would.Offer there is, and it's the

(25:18):
recursive function. It's the constant inquiry of
what's inside of us, the same way that computers do.
But that sits outside of a traditional religious construct,
so I'm not saying yeah, yeah. Yes and no.
Because even in those religious concepts, we're taught to go
into the closet and pray, right?Right.

(25:40):
But that's not that. That's, yeah, you know what I'm
saying? Like that's not problem solving
unless look, you know what it is.
And, and again, this is where I,this is where I have to put the
asterisk on everything I'm saying here.
There's no such thing as always or never, right?
So I don't. Yeah, absolutely.
You know, and I think absolutely.
There's no. Yeah, right.
Yeah. The only, I think absolute is
that there's no absolute, right.Like I mean there's there's

(26:01):
always an exception to the rule,right.
And we're. Always evolving to greater
understanding of the intricaciesof how energy manifests itself
in and through US. Sure.
Well here's here's where I was going with the asterisk comment.
Right when I was a kid going to confession, you'd go into

(26:22):
confessional and you'd say blessme Father, for I have sinned.
It's been six months, five yearssince whatever it is since
badass confession. This almost invariably ends with
say 5 Hail Marys and our father and we're going to call it a
day, right? And when you're a kid,
especially a kid in Catholic school, prayer is essentially A

(26:45):
checklist item. It's a function, right?
You, you're actually, you sit down, you, you usually are
kneeling. You got your hands in some kind
of position and you're, you're just reciting words, right?
Like, I don't know a single kid,nor was I one of these kids who
actually understood the gravitasof those words or the deeper
meaning of them or inspected them in any way.

(27:06):
They simply were memorizing thisstuff and repeating it back at
on command. And to your earlier point,
religion. By and large, all of them were
not meant to enlighten. They were meant to unenlighten
or keep prevent from enlightening.
Because if the masses knew what the elite knew.
Right. Be a very different story.
And the Thais would no longer support the land acquisitions.

(27:30):
Right, so here's where it gets weird, though.
If you all if you talk to a monk, prayer is a very different
thing altogether. Now we're talking about inward
meditation. We're talking about trying to
touch the cosmos. You're talking about an actually
a much different version of prayer.
Here's a perfect example. As a kid, I was an orphan at

(27:50):
birth, adopted early, and at 4 1/2, my parents brought my
adopted sister home. I didn't know anything about
being adopted to that point. I totally loved was not, you
know, I felt like these are my parents, right?
Didn't do any better. So I I had been attending Sunday
school because they were churchgoers.
United Methodist. Mom sang in the choir.

(28:12):
Dad sometimes did too. And yet after they told me
because they felt like, OK, it'stime because they just brought
my sister home, there was no pregnancy involved.
It was just right. Right, so just magically here
you are. Yeah, Dork did not drop her off.
And so I had no real Yeah, I hadthe the question, OK, well, why?

(28:34):
Who are my biologicals? I didn't put it in that term.
But who are my real mother and father?
And you know, maybe someday I'llknow what I did have as a
resident or resolute question after that was if I have a
father and mother in heaven, canI talk to them?

(28:56):
Right. I really put that to the test.
And I didn't realize how innocent, naive and deep that
was until I don't know. A few weeks, a month later, I'm
standing on the landing of our stairway.
I'm I got my elbows in the window sill channel through the
window and all of a sudden I hear and this is in the evening,

(29:21):
Mom was watching TVI could hear the TV.
All of a sudden I hear this deepmale voice say simply, hey, you.
And it was so deep, so resounding, so through and
through me that I rather than engage it, I spun around and I

(29:42):
asked my mother if she could hear it.
And of course she said don't. I couldn't hear it, my voice.
And she's now I must have been apeeking Tom.
Well, I realized at that point that it wasn't right.
It was deep. That voice came in me right.
It wasn't something I heard. Sure.

(30:02):
So what do you do with that, right?
As a kid, do you develop that? Do you ignore it?
Do you, you know, just sit with it for a while?
What I did was Dad worked nights, mom would be in the
kitchen. So I'd be in the living room
with the lights on and the curtains open.
I'd look out the living room window and out into the

(30:26):
darkness, right, Because you can't see out.
And I would project that voice out, hoping for a return.
And it was my, I don't know, maybe another three weeks, a
month, something like that. I finally found a place where I
shut up, right? Because as a kid, you might
just, even as adults, right? We don't shut up.

(30:49):
We don't just pause and be quiet.
So in that pausing and being quiet for a moment, the voice
returned. And so I learned early how to
still myself query and listen. And that alone has set me apart
throughout my life. Because most people can't do

(31:09):
that. And they see it as like you're
the asterisk, right? More often than not, there's
disbelief. So how do how do we navigate
that? Because it's obvious if it's
true for me. And you know, there's all kinds
of literature and things of others who have similar types of

(31:31):
things. If that's as real as it is, then
how does this allow us to bridgethat science and and religion or
science and spirituality world because of our ability to test
and confirm collectively, right?This is part of why we're
talking right now to having bringing those inner

(31:52):
conversations out and having a compare contrast, reflect.
Let's see where the similaritiesare, see where the differences
are, what we can't agree on, what still is questionable, and
and what questions we might ask to find more compatibility or
corroboration. So it's been my experience that

(32:14):
when you ask that question, whatyou often find are versions of
this story. I want freedom of religion for
my kids. And you get up on a soapbox and
you're fighting like hell for, for, you know, freedom of
religion. And then somebody says, great,
we're going to put a Satanic church in there because that's a

(32:35):
religion. It's recognized internationally
and, and, and that's valid. And they say, whoa, whoa, whoa,
no, no, no, that's crazy. My religion is totally normal,
but Satanism is fucking nuts, right?
And I, I'm using sort of 1/3 rail type of comparison to just
to point out the, the sort of thing that I think most people

(32:56):
end up finding themselves in where they're like, my thing is
normal and my thing is valid. And, and here's a couple other
things that I think are not so valid, even though to a
dispassionate third party they are identical, right?
Like, and, and so, so when you ask that question and many

(33:17):
others like it, I think what you, what I think our biggest
problem is, is that, that we, wefind ourselves at that
inflection point very quickly. Most of the time, at least I do.
And I, like I told you, I have alot of these weird
conversations. I know you do as well.
So I'm, maybe you have the same experience, but there's a lot of
people that are like, Oh, well, you know, I can hear this inner

(33:38):
voice just to pick on you for a second, right?
Because I and I and I've done all this work to find out what's
happening and how to deal with it.
But your aura looking thing thatsounds a little nuts like.
So I, I, you know what I mean? Like you, you know, and it and,
and to a third party person like, well, is it because you
know what else that voice could be schizophrenia.

(34:00):
Like there's a bunch of things that could.
Be OK, so here's another reflection, another layer, and I
don't mind it. And I'm not picking on you at
all, I'm just using. You no, but people for me I had
that experience right when it first I had an awakening in
college that I talked my parentsabout.
They took me to the psychiatristafter three visits he said

(34:21):
you're not crazy, you've had a spiritual awakening.
My advice is don't talk to people about it.
Well the following year I got still in college I did some
crazy stupid shit and ended up at a frat house got beat up
ended up in the ER and my parents decided to commit me.
And so that psychiatrist I same story you know I'm trying to

(34:43):
talk to him to try and discover what's going on in me.
I got labeled manic depressive paranoid schizophrenic and put
on 2000 micrograms of Thorazine there.
Then having an intelligent conversation to explore I got
diagnosed from a book right labeled and drug.

(35:06):
Well, how effective is that? Truly?
It didn't change my experience. It still hasn't, right?
I had to figure out, OK, I I gotto lie to these guys so that I
can get out of here. Sure.
I got to keep my mouth shut. I was warned, right?
And now I already. Have the blueprint for this?
Shut the fuck up. Yeah, right.

(35:29):
Yeah, totally, 100% you. Know having that I have great
empathy for those who have have been in my shoes.
Yeah. And and you know, we have a
different version of this conversation in my tech, in my
development company a lot, yeah,around AI, right and it and the
conversation usually goes something like this.

(35:49):
I am AI don't know a lawyer, right?
And you are a, you know, I don'tknow copywriter, right?
And we're in a conversation, right?
And the lawyer will say the copywriter.
Oh man, AI must be rough on your, your industry, right?
Because, you know, it could write so much better than
people, blah, blah, blah. And the copywriter is like,

(36:11):
yeah, I've lost all this work, but you know that nothing can
replace a human blah, blah. And they go through this whole
thing and then they say, well, you must be scared too because
you're a lawyer. I mean, it's even easier to
replace you and that. And then the lawyers like, no,
no, no, here. And here's 5 totally unpacked
assumption ways of why the AI isnot going to take his job out.

(36:31):
You know, and they get into thissort of.
And I watch this happen all every day.
Every day. Well, it's natural.
I mean, you know, people we wantto be sort of want to use
productive, we want to be a value.
Sure, but that's very. Intrinsic to us that we think
that we can offer, that nobody else can.

(36:53):
You, you know, you ever read that book The Subtle Art of Not
Giving a Fuck? No, but it sounds like a great.
Title It is an awesome book. First of all, if you have not
read it, I, I, I would put this at the top of your to read list.
It's a it's a great book. It's a short read, but the gist
of it is basically like, you know, there's a, a point in the
book where he's sitting on a Cliff over the safety rails.

(37:14):
It's 100 foot dropped. He's going to die if if a grain
of sand is off, his foot slips, he's off the thing.
No, no lights out. There's no chances, right?
And he's just dangling his feet over the side and reflecting on
that potential reality. And he's looking around.
He's like, you know, I'm past the guardrail, so no one's going
to even see me if I fall down here.

(37:35):
I might, I mean, it might be days before I'm found or, or you
know, and guess what? And guess what?
No one's going to care. Nothing's going to happen.
The world's not even going to blink.
And. Your hand in the bucket, right?
Yeah, when I yeah, when I, when I read that, I was like, you
know, it's funny. This is, this is humanity's

(37:57):
biggest misconception, right? And This is why this book
touched me in the way it did. We are not special in any way,
shape or form. Right.
We really aren't even really smart people.
Albert Einstein. Yeah, he did.
He did a lot. He was special in the sense that
he was, you know, very intelligent.
He had some great insights that led to crazy things.

(38:22):
But when he died, the world keptgoing.
Like it didn't. It didn't even stop.
Like, you know what I mean? Like.
Yeah. And his work?
Built upon. So here here's one thing that
seems to be true in that in the natural order of things, there
are those who have, I don't wantto say special built in design,

(38:43):
that information that they're tobring forth, right?
However it is, they're built that way.
It comes through them. They give it to society.
Society then goes, oh, thank you.
Or boy, that's fucked up and right and builds upon that in in
the ways that we do over time. So this kind of goes back into

(39:03):
that like Irvin Maslow says, right, we're all just energy and
we have design. We have what he calls the higher
self and the betas say, you know, that divine thread to
source. There's still this operational

(39:24):
capacity that we have if we're cancel the if when we are astute
enough to recognize the possibility of it and at least
be open to exploring it without too much rhetorical bullshit.
Right, but that's where I was going with the comment, right?

(39:45):
Two people talking to each otherabout why they are special in an
AI context and, and, and tellingthe other person that they're,
you know, that they are not special and that AI is going to
take them over. Those people are locked in a
conversation that clearly illustrates one and only one
thing. But they are.
Yeah, they are not. What about the unity?

(40:06):
They are not thinking about the global context here.
They're thinking about a very local context, right?
Like they're. And at that, they're not even
thinking about it metacognitively correctly.
Right. Like it's not.
No, it's all the ego. Yeah, it's, it's ego led and
it's, it also is what I've sort of come to sort of clumsily

(40:28):
describe this as because I stillhaven't found words for it.
But it it it indicates to me, it's a tip of the hat to me that
you are not in a space that would even want to explore a
deeper meaning to your existencehere at all, which isn't
intrinsically bad. You don't have to do that, but I

(40:50):
can't imagine a life without that because you know.
It's so enriching. It's, it's enriching and it also
gives you a, a pathway to bring that special thing that you do
have to the surface, right? Like if you buy into the fact
that everybody has a, a reason. And I had a coach one time who

(41:13):
put it kind of funny actually, he said at the moment before
your father ejaculated into yourmother and you chose to take
human form, why did you choose to do so?
Like that was word for word whatthe question was.
And I was just gobsmacked when he I was like, what?
What kind of fucked? Up question of all questions.

(41:34):
Yeah, I'm like, what kind of fucked up question is this?
But almost immediately I'm like,well, that's actually like I had
something I hadn't thought aboutbefore, right?
Because and to the untrained, I think, or to the unobservant, I
think that the the depth of thatquestion isn't even immediately
accessible, right? Because yes, you understand

(41:56):
ejaculation, you understand the correlation of pregnancy and
that part's pretty straightforward.
But like to correlate that with the decision to take human form
like that, we don't think of that part at all, right?
Like if you if you imagine you actively taking authorship and

(42:18):
ownership of the idea to come tothis plane of existence at all,
that could really fuck you up a little bit.
But if you if you live through that which and you do the work,
you know, what comes out on the other side is an examination of
like, you know what? Forget about like the
specificity of this question. Let's look at this in a, in a

(42:41):
blurry, like squint kind of way,right?
Why is this question being asked?
Well, it's being asked to say, like, why would I be here at all
if I had to put my finger on it?And if you don't know that
question and, or if you haven't asked that question or, or worse
yet, if you haven't examined it at any point, then every day

(43:04):
that you wake up, you're kind ofjust bumping into walls, right?
Like, what, what are you doing? Like there's no guidance,
there's no North Star. And, and some people, and I've
had this argument with more people than I can count, but
like they say, Oh, you know whatmy purpose here is to have a kid
or have kids and be a provider and, and blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, right? And I'm like, well, that could

(43:26):
be one of the things you were put here to do.
But like procreation feels like just one of many things, right?
Like, what are you going to procreate for?
How does, how does the simple act of procreation help
anything? Like, right, I mean, I can put
my penis into 1000 women and andhave 1000 children out there,

(43:47):
but that doesn't make doesn't fulfill anything.
Now if I had 20 children and I taught them all how to be good
human beings, now we're talking about a different conversation,
right? Like.
You know, you just remind me of there's a series of books that
Guy Ballard wrote back in the 20s of his experiences with an

(44:08):
ascended master and others. And one of the things that they
brought out was the an entity personage, however you want to
call it, known as Sanat Kamara, who is supposedly A planetary
logos. We will go into that just as I
want to mention it briefly now. In order for him to gain that

(44:31):
office, which was part of the universe administration, right,
on a planetary scale, he had to Incarnate 1000 times
simultaneously and then bring those back into that singular
consciousness that he was in order to pick up everything that

(44:52):
was necessary in order to be an effective planetary Logos,
right? So this takes what you're just
saying to a whole different level.
And yet is it possible? Perhaps we don't know yet.
And yet we are at a point now that we've evolved globally,

(45:12):
technologically, scientifically,knowledge basically that we can
begin to ask these questions andhave a little more understanding
of what the answers might be based on others who've
discovered certain things that we've then been able to.
However our live stream has encountered, it has and it's

(45:36):
given us this new layer of potential inquiry and
understanding or at least openness to right.
And yet with this, there's like with the recursive function,
right, there's this dissolving into self.
Well, what is what's that mean? Nothingness, right?

(45:59):
Like, you know, nobody means shit, right.
So from that place of nothingness, then, as we re
emerge with an intent to find purpose to fulfill in some way,
if possible or not, depending. And you know, COVID was I think
that set us up. I mean, you look at the history

(46:21):
of civilization and, and the events that took place in order
to get us to question deeper. Sure, right now we've gotten the
this global obsession on self hygiene and sequestration that
gave us that opportunity to sit back and go, oh, what the fuck
over. And, and can you know, why am I

(46:44):
here? Who am I?
What do I believe in? What am I willing to risk in
order to prove that belief? Well, Maslow had it right, I
think, you know, like we had to get through the bottom rungs of
that triangle prior to getting to the parts where we could
actually even ask this question.To your point right now, it's
like we had to, we had to ascenda certain part.
But you know how many people asked this question in the
1300s? None.

(47:06):
Like nobody. And if they did?
They were staked. Yeah, right.
Yeah, You know, like right. So, so I, you know, I think
there is, but that goes back. I mean, now we're dovetailing
back, right? And that's that's where I think
that if you look broad enough, you understand that all of this
stuff is connected, right? And I think that you can't look

(47:27):
broad enough unless you for you've been forced to ascend
high enough to see that far wideright the only way.
Happens through some kind of traumatic event in our lives.
It does, or it could be in my, in my case, now I'm knocking on
wood because I'm I'd like to avoid any kind of traumatic
event if I could at all avoid it.
But for me it was less about trauma and it was more about

(47:48):
just an unrelenting curiosity about like what's making this
human being say this shit like, you know what I mean?
Like well. The radical curiosity of the one
to dig deeper and find, you know, find the answers.
And the first time I heard the terms soul family, I was like,
what the actual fuck does that mean?
Right? Like, and I just remember being
like, Oh my God, who is this lunatic, right?

(48:09):
But then when you start looking at it, you're like, OK, well,
let's just suspend disbelief fora moment and just assume that
that could be true. What else?
Could that's what's key, That statement you just made, Suspend
your belief for a moment. Just for a moment, right?
And, and listen, we, we talked to a woman on on the show, Betty

(48:32):
Gardiano, who who had died. She was a meth add old
prostitute living in Las Vegas and, and, and just it was ugly,
ugly, ugly, right? Nothing good can happen.
And her parents, you know, you can listen to the show, but her
parents and she's got books out,but her parents committed
suicide on an opiate, an intentional opioid overdose and

(48:54):
left a note saying take care of each other to her sister and
her. It was a really just fucked up
story altogether, right? But here's the thing, What
happened, right? She she went into this limbo of
life and death in this intransigence between these two
sort of existence points. And all this weird shit
happened, right? She's like, you know, I'm in

(49:15):
this room and somebody said the only thing that matters is, is
universal love. That's why you know this person
and she talked to somebody, by the way, who had killed a bunch
of people and died and had the exact same experience, right?
So, and, and if and if we dug into this, we had the president
of the Bob Copez on the president of the International

(49:37):
Near Death Experience Organization and he came.
On IANS. IANS.
I think yeah, there is an. Acronym Yeah, I spoke at their
annual conference in in Denver in 20.
You know Bob then Copez, He's from Amsterdam.
I think he is he's. I am familiar with him, I don't
know him personally. No, well, he was on the show and

(49:57):
he was telling us he's like, look, if you go around the
world, you know, it doesn't matter people, these super pious
people, mass murderers. It doesn't it, it, it doesn't
seem to have a bearing on what the experience is, right?
And you know, and it's beyond. This planet, like you were just
saying, you know, the the optimal experience and maybe an
answer to why we're here is to simply to love and be loved.

(50:20):
We've gone from that formless consciousness that's only got
limited perception or perspectives.
Maybe it's a much larger perspective because it is
formless. And now we're here figuring out,
OK, how do we reflect what we'rewhere we came from with into
where we are? And you know what else those

(50:42):
stories all have in common? They all said they all had a
conversation with a energetic being that they cannot it's
describe that said you have to go back and they're and they
fight it like they say, no, fuckthat, I'm not going back.
This is way better. Like what?
Why would I go back? You know, and and the answer
seems to be recursively. Well, you're not done yet.

(51:05):
And like then that that leads you to a question like, well,
what does that mean? Right?
Like, let's suspend disbelief for a second.
Let's say this is real. What?
What does that even mean? You're not done yet.
It means back to the ejaculationcomment is that you had to have
had a raison d'etre to be here in the 1st place.
And if you have yet to discover it, if you have yet to

(51:27):
acknowledge it or embrace it or research it or whatever, and
you're not quite done Now in a lot of these cases, as you, it
seems like you would know as well, those people come back and
become sort of other people, right?
They they change. Yeah, they change.
There's a obvious change in their behavior and I had similar
thing in college. So I I got to the point where I

(51:50):
was just distraught in between first and second quarter.
I was in a pre Med program didn't and I realized it's not
quite for me. I could do it academically, it
just didn't feel like it was part of where I need to go.
So in that distraught place, I hit my knees and I prayed and I
said, Father, I want to know what truth is and I'm willing to
die for it if necessary. Now that was an 18 year old's

(52:14):
prayer, right? And So what happened a couple,
what, three days later? I think that was a Saturday
night, Tuesday afternoon, came back from class, did the
obligatory bong hit and album side meditation.
The 1975. Right.
Sure. Yeah.
Yeah, and any honor storm and weall did it and yet it shouldn't
have had this kind of effect. I'm listening to Journey's first
album and in the middle, in between the vocals and the vamp

(52:38):
on In the Morning Day, this voice I've been familiar with
since my 5 year old times, right?
Asked me by name if I'm willing to die for what I believe in.
What do you do with that? So immediately my first thought
was Christ consciousness. That just seemed to be it,

(52:58):
right? It felt a little empty.
I say felt because that's where I sense things.
So I gave that up and I thought,OK, what could be cosmic
consciousness? Yes, because it's helpful.
Sure. Next thing I know, there's a
rocket ship taken off that Neil Shawn does a guitar riff sound

(53:20):
like a rocket ship taken off. I get a tug from my solar
plexus. I pop out a body, turn to look
at my body laying across my bed,turn back to look where I'm
going, and before I can get turned around, I'm engulfed by
white light and it has this amazing sensation to it.
And so I start analyzing. I felt individuated and yet part

(53:40):
of a collective of interesting. Right.
God, if you will, right, my limited understanding of it.
And so in that space, I began toanalyze and I came up with, OK,
it's iridescent, it's high pitched, it's effervescent.
And then I realized I was thinking because I wasn't right.

(54:02):
I didn't think that I was thinking.
When I became aware, I was like,oh, I'm thinking, I can't be
dead. Woo Hoo.
Wow, is there more? And then with that question,
there was a movement, slight, but I felt it.
And I'm now in an indigo background with Points of Light
surrounding me. I know the Points of Light are
points of consciousness intuitively don't know if

(54:24):
they're in body or not because Iknow I'm not, but I have the
sense that they are. And then the voice picks back up
and basically delivers my mission, you know, that I'm
supposed to work with these in my lifetime, that things are
going to happen, that they, you know, have faith and trust that
everything will be there at it'sa point in time, just to simply
trust and allow. And then I feel this rush and

(54:45):
I'm back in my body, taking a gulp of air, immediately being
aware that we're all cosmic consciousness condensed into
form, just unaware. Now, as an 18 year old, what do
you do with that? I would chalk it up to just too
much weed, but you know, who knows?
You're like, if I if I was an 18year old, that is, you know what

(55:07):
I mean? Like.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and, yeah, that was, you
know, I had this radical curiosity.
What did my roommate put in thatfucking bong hit man.
How do I hit? Where am I at?
What's my purpose? Right?
Because there was longing insideof me that was there from the
beginning that I didn't realize,right?

(55:27):
It was just this compelling, a natural desire to know truth and
to live it, whatever it is. Yeah, and and I think that
that's where it gets gets hard, right, Because, you know, you
know, when you when you take what what Betty was saying on
the show, she, you know, you say, you know, how could this
man who killed don't quote me onthis, but I think it's like 12

(55:50):
people or so. He killed more than a couple
people, right? It was like he was a bad guy.
Like, you know, how does this guy who's.
On our level, he was a bad guy. On a yet another level, maybe
that was in perfect order. Well, and So what what Rabbit
actually said as well, actually,I think to your point is the
thing he was here to do was thatso that everybody affected by

(56:14):
that could go through the journey they were supposed to go
through. And when you start reframing it
like that, the world starts to make a lot less sense because
now all of a sudden you're like,well, wait a minute, hold on a
second, right 'cause we think ofa A.
From a linear framework, we're. We're not.
Well, I think it's 'cause we all, whether we want to be or

(56:35):
not, intrinsically bound to thisJudeo Catholic, you know?
Sure. More anytime loss of life takes
place, we see it as a detriment.Well, that, again, that's
intrinsically steeped in this Judeo-christian sort of like
moral lattice work that was handed down.

(56:56):
He's like, oh OK, that life's over, just wait till the next
one. Well, exactly right.
So these aren't, but now they don't take murder lightly
anywhere that I'm aware of. But so I don't think that's
condone anywhere. But at the same time you're
right like. Those are still judgments.
Those are still judgments, right?
And so like when you start to say, OK, well, wait a minute,
how about my unpacked assumptions?
Well, my unpacked assumptions was that if you kill somebody,

(57:17):
fuck off like you're, you know, like you're, you're, you're
useless. And I think that that's largely
probably going to be my vantage point from this for, for as long
as I live because I, I just don't think people should be
running around killing people indiscriminately.
But but here's the thing. If you look at it through this
philosophical. Yeah, you have countries that do
that. Yeah, correct.

(57:39):
But if you look at this philosophically and only
philosophically and you and you say, OK, well, what happens if
that is true, right. What happens if this person,
prior to his father ejaculating and his mother decided to take
human form so that the families of 12 people at some point are
going to be set on a path that they need to be on in order to

(57:59):
fulfill their raison d'etre? For me and.
We don't have speaking to that point.
We have very limited. We only see less than 1% of the
visual light spectrum. Yeah, well, exactly.
Of the electromagnetic spectrum,so.
We joke about that on the show all the time.
We're like, and how did we get stuck with this one?
There's so many cooler ones out there, how come this is the only

(58:20):
one we can see? And with that, you know, we
understand there's more and we can't see it.
So how is it so difficult that we can't extrapolate that to the
possibility of other things are possible beyond what we think we
know? Because we get tied up in this

(58:41):
narrative that was usually spoonfed to us by parents, religious
factors, you know, professional factors like I mean.
You know, all with good intentions, sure.
But I mean, if you ever read anything by Daniel Kahneman, I
mean, he he, which I'm fascinated by this guy.
I mean, you won a Nobel Prize for this.
It's so groundbreaking. But the the 50 something types

(59:02):
of human biases, right? Like if you start to pull that
apart, man, every conversation you've ever had starts to make a
lot more sense, right? You know, you're like, oh shit,
All right, well, that's that. Yeah.
And it just, you know, there's Aand as you evidenced, I believe
there's a subtle movement of howyou look at things and you're

(59:25):
that perspective shift can eventually be huge.
Because, yeah, somebody years ago introduced me to that
Chinese proverb, like, good news, bad news.
Who can say? Like, are you familiar with
this? Like where you know.
Yeah. And and like one of the.
I don't need to go through the whole thing, but one of them was
basically like, you know, the the Chinese army is coming to

(59:47):
this village to round up every oldest son to go off to war.
And they don't know this, but the oldest son in this case runs
out and breaks his leg with a horse type thing.
And everyone comes back. They're like, Oh my God, that's
such bad news. And then like the next day they
come and they say every able bodied man has to come.
We're in a war and everybody wasbasically going to die and this

(01:00:08):
guy couldn't go because he has abroken leg.
Now all of a sudden it's like, well fuck, thank God that
happened because otherwise I'd be going to get staked out in a
battlefield somewhere and. Let me ask you a question.
I guess we're we've had a wonderful lengthy conversation
so far. When you ask questions
internally, who answers? You know, I don't know the

(01:00:29):
answer to that. I mean, I it's from my
perception, it's my voice, but often times it's, it's saying
things that I don't know that I would have said.
So it is a hard question to answer because you know, on one
side I could look at it is me allowing space to access a

(01:00:50):
higher, you know, frequency of answers.
Or like you know, Ergon, Laszlo says.
It's your higher self. You ask the question, you shut
up. If you can shut up long enough,
you might get the answer. Yeah, on the other side.
It, it, it is, it is something else speaking through me, right?
Like, and and I, I don't mean that in sort of such a woo woo

(01:01:11):
way, but like I feel like there is one of the reasons why I, I
always love some of these stories and they resonate with
me more. Like the Akashic records is
something that sticks with me more profoundly than other
things. And why is that?
Because metaphorically, visually, we can, we can look at
the, the construct of this Akashic records and, and like,
let's say you just view that as like this layer of knowledge

(01:01:34):
that sits like a rain cloud overthe, the, over us all.
And, and some people can grow their arm long enough to just
reach up and grab something and pull it down, right?
Some people can't. Some people don't even see that
as, as a cloud. And I feel like that's what I
mean when speaking through me when I say, you know what?
I think there's parts of me thatis able to reach up and grab

(01:01:55):
that stuff when I need it. It has to be intentional.
It has to be honest. Meaning like I have to be
looking for an answer in a way that's meaningful, right?
I can't just be. I have to suspend whatever
beliefs you have. And you have to be completely
void of of assumptions, right? And that's what.
Is the dissolution in with the recursive function.

(01:02:16):
What you just shared is a perfect example of what the
Vedas said, right? Where divine threads Incarnate,
connected to source, higher self, whatever you.
Want and connected to source is a very common word, the
phrasing. Apable of God consciousness.
So what's that mean? It means that that divine thread

(01:02:40):
has infinite intelligence available to you specifically
when you ask questions. Sure.
And there's a, a mortal way of, of doing that, which I do with
clients sometime the seven question game, right?

(01:03:00):
You could ask the same question 7 times and, and the first
couple and you just keep going deeper and deeper.
And everybody without exception that I've ever brought into this
exercise, 100% of the people getto like layer 3 or 4 and they
just basically hit a wall. I mean, I'll get them through,
I'll push them as deep as like 5or 6, but I don't know.

(01:03:23):
I can't the only a few people. But not only do they hit a wall,
they get angry. Well, they get, they get
confronted. You feel confronted and and so
then you know they're like. Yeah, their their fight or
flight kicks in. Yeah, like they start getting
real, real edgy, right. Because like, you could just say
like, you know, like, and it's funny because you could do it
with something completely benign, right?

(01:03:43):
You could just be like, you know, hey, what, what do you do
for a living? I'm a web designer.
OK, why? So there, now we're on question
2. It's like, well, I don't know, I
like technology and you know, like, blah, blah.
I was like, all right. And that question three, well,
what makes you like technology? You know, I and like, now it
starts to get harder. Even at question three, you're
like, huh, wait, hold on a second.
Wait. I, I've never asked that

(01:04:04):
question before. I no one ever told me I had to
know these layers. And then you start to then to
this person paying attention by question 3 or 4, you should
immediately recognize all of theholes in your assumptions, all
of the things that you have not unpacked, all of the problems

(01:04:25):
with the way you're thinking, all of the issues with your
metacognition. Soup to nuts should start to
become immediately obvious rightaround.
Now here's where the soap 70,000thoughts a day, according to the
neuroscientist. Right?
Yeah, I've heard that. Too.
I think I'm way over that, but. Depending on, you know, how

(01:04:45):
quiet you can be right, in those70,000 thoughts because of where
you just took people, most of those thoughts are going to be
self deprecating because of the people's like, I don't know
this, I don't know why, why, why, you know?
And then they start beating up on themselves, right?
And we do that incessantly internally, instead of embracing

(01:05:12):
what we don't know, recognizing that we don't know what we don't
know, and being OK with that, and then just asking better
questions to unpack what we can know.
Yeah, even that seven exercise, that seven question exercise, if
the, if the Proctor doesn't understand how to ask good
questions, you could RIP through7 questions that are like at the

(01:05:34):
idiot level and not really dive in there.
I mean, you know, but but if youreally know how to work that
equation, like you can get people real deep into thought,
almost hypnotic into thought. If if the person's willing to
play ball and when they come outof that, they're always like,
you know what, that's weird. I've never done that before.
But like for people who did it, I don't want to say right.

(01:05:57):
But people that like really leaned into the process, they
come out of it like the almost like cleansed, like a little
refresher. It's almost like they took a
long nap. They're like, Oh my.
Well, you go into those depths of truth and reality for the
individual that they've never explored yet, which brings about
greater resonance in their totalbeing because you've now just

(01:06:17):
exposed that. You have helped them to expose
it to themselves. Yeah, we had a therapist on the
show 1 time that does a reset protocol.
And when he does that, he goes, listen, at the end of this, I
just want you to understand the end of this could mean you're
getting a divorce. It could mean you're moving to

(01:06:39):
to Anchorage. Like he's like, there's a bunch
of things that could come out ofthis because we're going to open
up a can of worms that you have never opened up before.
And and he says that not to be sort of mystical, but he says
that to be like candid, Hey, listen, we're going to go on a
journey that you've never been on before.
And it it might sting. Like I just need you to be

(01:07:02):
prepared. Like, Are you ready to your
point, Are you ready to die for what you believe in?
Well, Are you ready to get a divorce for what I'm about to
tell you? Are you ready to move because
you find out that New Jersey isn't where you should be
living? Like I, you know what I mean?
Like it's it's. And what it's funny too, how
when you're willing to let go ofeverything, and this goes back

(01:07:23):
to, you know, if you should whatbe willing to give up your life
for my sake, you shall have it. I think this is what that enters
in, right? That ability to just let go and
not be attached to anything. And this is where we recognize
all the fetters of the ego and all the different, you know,
psychic chords that we have to what we believe our lives should

(01:07:47):
be like. Right, right, sure.
But you know what's funny? This is where I'm that 50 yard
line kid again, right. I say to myself, I'm like, you
know what? I love that I do.
I'd love to just like reset the playing board, go back to 0
unattached from everything. But I said, but you know what?
We just talked about this. You know who had a good idea?
Maslow, his, his hierarchy tellsus that like we need shelter, we

(01:08:12):
need food, we need water, right.Well, if I have a house and a
bank account with some money in it and so that I'm not, you
know, like freaking out all the time and A and a four O 1K and
there's food in the cabinet and and I can go to the grocery
store in my car because I have acar.
Like I don't necessarily think Ishould or have to give up all of

(01:08:33):
these things just to sort of reconnect.
Like these are the things in fact, that let me the allow me
the luxury of exploring these things.
And that's where we are as a human race right now.
We have all of those accoutrements that allow us to
experience, at least in the West, Africa.
Yeah, it's certainly not a universal thing.

(01:08:53):
But it's not a ubiquitous thing yet.
Well, the future is here. It's just not evenly
distributed. Yeah, right.
You know, it's like. It does give us the ability to
see more because we aren't so trying to, we feel safe and

(01:09:14):
secure right to some degree. So, so all of those things have
been taken care of and and we can self actualize or self
realize depending or both simultaneously as the case may
be. And in that sense, it's almost
like we flip Maslow's hierarchy.And once we have those things,

(01:09:34):
it's like, you know, the inverted pyramid as above, so
below, right. So when we start from that place
of seeking self actualization now because we can afford to do
so. Yeah.
Then it it takes off in a different direction.
And often times, from my perspective, those who have

(01:09:55):
ascended to that level become servant leaders in some way,
shape or form. And I think a lot of those near
death people end up in sort of those positions a lot where
they're like, look, I'm here to sort of really lean into my
purpose and that's going to meanleading in some capacity.
And and I think that is a commonobservation of that group.

(01:10:18):
If we could just all get along. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the
day, it really does come down tothat, right?
Like I'm not an adversarial people.
I have a funny sticker on my laptop.
I was like, it's like, I'm a little bit of peace and love
with, I'm a lot of peace and love with a little bit of go
fuck yourself, right? Like, and I, I feel like, you
know, and I feel like that's, I don't like to be confrontational

(01:10:38):
and I, I don't like to, to, to really be angry.
And if I could have this kind ofconversation every day, but I'm
also like, Hey, look, if you're not willing to just be able to
suspend whatever is causing thisaggression from your side, then
I, you know, I don't know what to tell you.

(01:11:00):
I, we can't have a civil conversation because like you're
not willing to, right? And I'm, I will never be the one
that leads that, but I'm certainly the one to lead the
exit if I have to, you know whatI mean?
Because at this point, I'm like,yeah, listen, I don't ask much
from you, but I just want you tonot be a Dick so that we could
have a conversation. We don't have to agree, you
know, like we don't we, we don'thave to agree at all, right?

(01:11:21):
But. We do have to be.
Curious, right? Like Ted Lasso, that line be
judge, be curious, not judgmental.
One of the best lines in TV history, I think, right?
And the story he's telling as he's doing it is even better.
It's like just one of those scenes of of TV history that
just it's mad. It's all the good things TV
could be. Is that scene right?

(01:11:42):
And it's it's like you should, Ishould want to tattoo that on my
forehead, right? Like, if we were all just
curious instead of judgmental, like none of these problems
would exist, right? We would all want to hear the.
Yeah, we want to hear the story.What does my aura look like?
You tell me like you know so. Anyway, fascinating and so

(01:12:03):
worthwhile to explore. Yeah, cool.
Well, it's fun conversation. It's hard to.
And, and hopefully it'll be shared profusely.
Yeah. Love it.
We get to that place that this has been absolutely awesome.
I appreciate your time and your openness, your, your own

(01:12:24):
transparency and, and the willingness to look at yourself
and others and, and just kind ofsay, you know, I don't know what
I don't know, but here's what I think you know from my
experience, which is really our experience is what gives us this
notion of truth. Yeah, it's all we got in the
end, right? I mean, we don't, we don't know
which is the right orange. It's just what I call orange.

(01:12:47):
That's it. Yeah, but we do know that we're
here, that we desire to be who we are in a loving way and to
have that reciprocated by those around us and the rest of the
world. It's it's the achievement of
that that we're trying to figureout how to bridge those in and

(01:13:08):
out of worlds. Yeah, and I'll stop thinking
about this, I guess, when they lay me in the ground.
And then even then, maybe not, Idon't know.
Maybe I doubt that you'll stop thinking about it because, as I
found out that, you know, we just because we're dead doesn't
mean we can't think. Yeah, we're just in a different.
World, we're just in a differentplace.

(01:13:28):
Yeah, totally. Yeah, exactly.
Cool. Again, I I surely appreciate
your time and and it's been a pleasure.
Awesome, great having you or great having me.
Thank you so much. Looking forward to that.
Experience. It's been great having me too.
And I'm another you and you are another me.
So I thank you again. And to our audience again,

(01:13:51):
please like, subscribe, share, make comments.
It's what helps us all. If you enjoyed this
conversation, let us know. And by all means, stop by
Planetary citizens.net and pick up Planetary Citizens Awakening
the Heart of Humanity. It states a lot of these things
very simply so that we can all have a global view of the

(01:14:15):
progress that we're making as humanity together.
So thank you very much and Namaste and in LA catch.
I'll see you next time.