Ep 212 - Unity Beyond Borders - Conscious Politics Emerging with John Bunzl

Ep 212 - One World a New World with John Bunzl, Founder and Trustee

❓ Why can’t nations solve global problems alone?

❓ What is destructive global competition, and how do we overcome it?

❓ How does inner consciousness connect to political change?

❓ What role can citizens play in global cooperation?

Step into a transformative dialogue where politics, consciousness, and cooperation converge. In this episode of One World in a New World, Zen Benefiel welcomes John Bunzl, founder of the International Simultaneous Policy Organization (Simpol).

Together, they explore how global challenges like climate change, inequality, and destructive competition can only be solved through cooperation across nations—acting not separately, but simultaneously.

This conversation shines a light on the power of unity consciousness, the courage to rethink governance, and the potential of everyday citizens to influence systemic change.

John shares his journey from a personal awakening in 1998 to a lifelong commitment to creating practical political solutions for global problems. He and Zen explore themes of ego, oneness, and responsibility, weaving insights from ancient wisdom, science, and economics.

From the balance of inner and outer worlds to the urgent need for collective frameworks, this episode uncovers how small sparks of awareness can ignite global transformation.

Whether you’re curious about politics, consciousness, or building a better future, this apocalyptic chat will open your mind to new possibilities.

Connect with John: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-bunzl-226672172/

John's books: https://amzn.to/3K7KUrV

#GlobalCooperation #ConsciousPolitics #UnityInDiversity #OneWorldNewWorld #Simpol #PlanetaryCitizens

Join this channel to get access to perks:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuZl_29zHxehqeL89KSCWFA/join

__________

One World in a New World Compilation (3 years): https://amzn.to/3VdhQSg

__________

Visit: https://PlanetaryCitizens.net

Connect with Zen: https://linkedin.com/zenbenefiel

Zen's books: https://amazon.com/author/zendor

Zen's Coaching: https://BeTheDream.com

Zen's CV et al: https://zenbenefiel.com

The Octopus Movement (non-linear thinkers): https://theoctopusmovement.org

Live and Let Live Global Peace Movement: https://liveandletlive.org

Episode Transcript

(00:28):
Namaste and in like hats and welcome to this episode of One
World in a New World. I'm your host, Zen Benefiel.
And as always, please subscribe,like share.
It's the only way that we can show that we care, right?
That's the social credit for today.
So please do so and thank you very much.
And also I'd like you to visit planetarycitizens.net where you

(00:51):
can pick up my latest book, Planetary Citizens Awakening the
Heart of Humanity. And it speaks to the unity of
people in a wonderful way. And it's got great reviews on
Amazon. Prior to that, I wrote another
book called Zero to 1, Making Our Way Toward a Conscious
Civilization, which is importantfor today.

(01:13):
And you'll see from our guest that just how important that is.
So today's guest is Jon Bunsell.He is the founder and trustee of
the International Simultaneous Policy Organization.
He's author of several books, The Simultaneous Policy and
Insider's Guide to Saving Humanity and the Planet.
It was published in 2001. So he's been at this for a

(01:36):
while. Global Domestic Politics, a
Citizen's Guide to Running a Diverse Planet was published in
2013 and he co-authored Simple Solution, a way to think about
solving the world's Biggest Problems, published in 2018.
Now, simple.org is a global citizens movement that
encourages people to use their votes to pressure politicians

(02:00):
everywhere to sign a pledge committing to implement
democratically developed policies simultaneously across
nations so governments can jointly tackle urgent global
problems like climate change, inequality and environmental
degradation. So this is going to be a really

(02:21):
great apocalyptic chat. Stay tuned, we'll be right back.
You know, as leaders and even inlife in general, we have this
work life balance that we're trying to find, this integration
that seems to escape us. Sometimes success without
balance drains both the leader and the team.

(02:42):
Coaching cultivates self-awareness about the habits
and beliefs that fuel burnout and reshapes them into
sustainable practices. Servant leadership grows
naturally when your life, not just your title, inspires
others. If you'd like to know how to

(03:04):
increase that inspiration, please visit bethedream.com.
I know I can be helpful and there's a lot of value there.
Thanks so much. Have a great day.
I'll see you on the other side. So John, it's great to have you
here. I, I love what you're doing and
I'm really happy that we've finally been able to connect it.

(03:24):
It's been a challenge, right? Yeah.
Well, thank you. I'm really, really appreciate
being invited and I'm looking forward to our discussion today.
Thank you. You're.
Very welcome. And and, you know, we've talked
before quite a bit and somewhat extensively.
Yeah, this is a little differententrance into the world of

(03:46):
connectivity, right, where you have basically 2 lives inside
and outside. And we're usually bereft of
speaking about the inner one because it's often so weird.
And we think people will kind ofgive us a stiff arm if we bring
it up in conversation. And you know, the cursory life
in the world today really isn't serving us.

(04:07):
So taking these deeper dives into what's going on inside,
which if you look at the ancienttexts and even modern day
science and physics, it's you got to fix the inside before the
outside will work. So we're going to dive inside
right now. John, with that preface, right?

(04:30):
When did you first notice this deep connection beyond the
physical world and the things that often seem to distract us?
For me it was, it was funnily enough a Sunday lunch with my
family, my kids, my, my mum. This was back in like end of

(04:53):
1998 and we were just talking about this and that and my kids
were talking about climate change because they were
covering it at school. And after the meal, my, my mum
sort of turned around to me and said, well, John, what would you
do about climate change? And you know which kind of nice

(05:17):
question, you know. Nice easy question on the spot,
right? But it was something about the
way she challenged me then, which I don't know, maybe it's
because I'd also had a glass of wine or two at lunchtime, I
don't know. But it was something in the way
she challenged me that that caused me to kind of go deep
inside myself and to just sort of discard all of the sort of

(05:41):
ego connected rubbish that that clutters our lives.
And in, in that split second, I,I had this sort of it, it was
like a, a moment of unity consciousness or, or I mean, I
didn't know what it was at the time, but I think subsequently
really. What you're kind of describing,

(06:02):
there's been a lot of talk in our similarities to computers,
right? We got a big bio computer on our
shoulders, right? And the, there's a term called
the recursive function that seems to just be replete with
this fantastic opportunity to really look at ourselves and
realize that when we have questions, we go inside and we

(06:23):
ask them, right? That's the first place we go.
And it's just like a computer that queries itself for problem
solving. We're designed that way.
That's the inner what we're talking about, right?
So wonderful if you recognize that.
I think it's yes, no, absolutely.
And I think it's when we, if we can actually take our ego out of

(06:44):
this, out of that process as much.
Kind of no ego without ego, right?
Yeah. Then then suddenly the solution
arrived and and that's what it was like.
I just, I think it was also partof my business background of
trading raw materials in, in, in, in, you know, globally.

(07:05):
And then I and I suppose so you were legit.
That needs to happen. Sorry.
I say so you were more of a logistics guy that you know the
procurement and delivery. Well, it was more, it was more
trading of doing the deal. Someone else would be delivering
the goods. But I think it's because of that
knowledge of the way the global economy works.

(07:27):
I realized that that solutions to problems like climate change
would have to happen simultaneously because
otherwise. It makes sense, doesn't it?
Well, it it does, if you understand the way the global
economy works, I think most people think, well, you know
about it, but nations should just should just do this, you
know, and it's the moral thing to do.

(07:49):
I totally get that. And on top of that, we are when
one people, one planet, right? So if you're going to do
something, it would make sense that you do it simultaneously
globally. Otherwise, it it's going to be,
it may be effective, but it's not going to be as effective
because you know, you're it's like dropping a pedal into a

(08:13):
prime and it doesn't. Well, that that's right and it
actually isn't going to be effective unless it's
simultaneous because of of what you know, this first move, a
competitive disadvantage. Any nation that actually acted
alone to cut carbon emissions significantly would because of
the higher taxes and regulationsthat that would entail, would
make it's economy and competitive.

(08:35):
And so, of course, no nation wants to act, and that's why
nations are not acting as, you know, as significantly as we
need. Before we get into that a little
bit, let's I'd like to go back into your younger life.
Do you remember any situation oror event that gave you a sense

(08:56):
of awe and wonder about the synchronicities that you were
experiencing or, or the connection that you at least
thought might be happening and and the awareness of that
interconnectivity? Not really, no.

(09:18):
I mean that that was why this moment in 1998 was such a
surprise. Because you know, throughout my,
my life, I've, I've just been very ordinary person, very much
focused on the exterior. And so I, I can't really think

(09:40):
of any particular moment that until this point in 1919 that's
probably. Pretty normal, right?
We're all kind of drawn in. We're taught to be drawn into
the outer world, right? To find a place to fit in, to
function, to provide, sometimes to provoke.
Yeah. So with that, then when you

(10:05):
began doing this work and looking at that reflection of
that unity consciousness experience that you had in that
moment, how did that propel you in into the deeper dive of, you
know, what can I do personally, right?
Because we all, when it boils down to it, we can't make other

(10:26):
people responsible. We have to be individually
responsible for what's in front of us to do.
Otherwise it, it, it's still kind of disconnected and
disjointed. But when we work in concert
that, that you've, and I'm sure you've experienced that in the,
the trades that you've done and,and the work in, in that
perspective, it just brings a whole new level of, I don't want

(10:53):
to say happiness, but that's kind of how it feels.
It, it, it's a certain, you know, and I don't go into the
ego thing with pride and things like that, but it, it's the
confidence and the pride that that, OK, I am contributing,
right? And maybe small, at least I'm
doing something. So in that something, what did
you find was most appropriate for you to continue with?

(11:15):
Well, I mean, you know, from that moment on, you know, that
moment itself, it was very clearto me in that I couldn't really
articulate it, but it was clear to me that there was a very
practical political process thatcould be.

(11:38):
And so I spent, you know, the next year or two reading as much
as I could, really trying to sort of fig things would
actually look like and how it could be put into practice and
and and so on. So that that has been my passion
ever since. Well.

(11:59):
And at that time too, turn of the century, there was some
stuff on the Internet. It was just beginning to become,
you know, popular and yet there wasn't the depth of information
available if there is today. So what was it like in in the
research, in the study, in the books and things like that?

(12:20):
Were there any particular? Well, I, I wasn't even online
that time at all, so I don't think I was anyway.
So really it was a question of. Of.
Because going to libraries, finding all the books that I
could that, that, that were relevant to, to what I was

(12:43):
talking about. I mean, my, my initial, my, my
first thought then actually, when when the idea came up for
simple came along was was it's so obvious.
There's someone must have thought of it already, you know,
And and I. It's so simple it ought to be
obvious, right? Yeah, it ought to be.
Yeah. And I was sort of huntering
around and I thought, well, you know, someone must have thought
of this, you know, and, and so the more I read, the more I

(13:06):
realized that people, you know, although people were talking
about global problems like climate, they, they didn't,
they, they hadn't identified this vicious circle, this
underlying vicious circle problem of, of what I call
destructive global competition. You know, the fact that no
nation wants to move first or can move first because it will

(13:27):
make its economy uncompetitive. And so they're all, they're all
playing the same game, you know.And so I, you know, that was a
surprise. And so I thought, well, look,
I'm going to have to create thismyself.
Well, no, actually, the next thing I thought was, I know
what, I'll go and talk to peoplelike Friends of the Earth and

(13:48):
Greenpeace and some of these bigNGOs, you know, because I
thought, you know, I'm just a paper salesman.
I'm not a campaigner, so I'll goand talk to them.
They'll understand. A bit of research.
That's smart, right? If you're going to talk about, I
think it's best to go to those who've been down this road
before or may know a little bit more and find out what they're

(14:08):
where they're at. Well, that, that's what I
thought. So I thought that they would
take it up and, and I could go back to selling paper, you know,
But I, I discovered to my regretthat they, they don't really
understand it. You know, the most of these NGOs

(14:29):
are based on the premise that ifwe just shout loud enough, if we
just protest enough, the government will do what we
demand. But what, what, what destructive
global competition shows you is that it's, it's not that
governments don't want to act onthese problems.
It's that destructive global competition means that they

(14:50):
can't act on them because they'll make their economy
uncompetitive. And and so no government is
going to do that, obviously, because it, you know, the
economy would go down, capital would would fly out of the
country and go elsewhere. Drugs would would be lost and
and the the next election would be lost.
So that's that's that's the sortof dilemma that politicians are

(15:11):
and yet. From our background, and we've
had at least two people saying the same thing, Socrates and
Buckminster Fuller, right? Don't fight.
What's going on? Build a model that replaces it?
Do something better. So that's precisely.
It Yeah. And this really draws attention
to this bifurcation of consciousness or attention that

(15:34):
we have, you know, the good, badscenario where we have this
polarity of our vision and we bounce back and forth.
What, how do you feel about the focus of attention, intention,
and interactions that lead to positive change as opposed to

(15:57):
the opposite of, Oh my God, you know, point fingers and this is
wrong, this is bad, yada yada. And then there's got to be a
bridge in there that moves us from focusing on that because
where energy goes, where consciousness or attention goes,
energy flows, right? We know that from physics now.

(16:19):
So how do we move that distracted energy for lack of a
better into a more focused approach to actually facilitate
the collaboration for this? And does that happen at the
grassroots level first? Is it something that, you know,

(16:43):
that there are some in government that see that, Oh
yeah, something like this needs to be done, we're just
ineffective of being able to initialize it.
Yeah, I mean, I, I think ultimately it it, it, it comes
down to consciousness. And if you look into, you know,
a lot of the evolutionary theorists have have identified

(17:06):
how this works. You know that that it that it,
you know, if you are. It's not even I'll face the the
future. It's not even those guys.
It's like this is ancient stuff.This is out, right out, yeah.
Absolutely. It's never been different.
And yeah, and and the, you know,the.
Process of paying attention. Now you're well, that's right.
Yeah. It's rediscovering a very old a

(17:27):
very old solution that that as you say, has has been there from
the dawn of time and design in my.
Opinion. Sorry.
I say in a design, in my opinion, we had this natural,
you know, like we had the, the natural inner and outer
distinctions, our lives and yet we live one life.
So how do you, you know, how do we bridge those two in order to

(17:50):
find that wholeness and that unique oneness that we can
experience? The, you know, the, the idea of,
of oneness that, you know, was thought of as woo woo back in
the 80s when all the new age people were talking about it.
And now today it's far differentbecause the diversity, the
individuation, the collective participation with each one of

(18:10):
those individuals that has a piece to contribute it just
sure. Again, it makes sense, right?
But I, I think, I think you know, the, the, the, the problem
I, I think with, you know, is, is everything you said is
correct. But I think it's, it's, it's a,
it's a question of changing lifeconditions, you know, life

(18:33):
conditions. Oh yeah, hungry persons is not
going to be happy. Sorry A.
Hungry person is not going to behappy.
Well, well, absolutely. And, and you know, we're faced
today under globalization with awhole new category of problems
that, you know, that if you think about it, the nation
state, which is generally the, the largest and highest form of

(18:55):
governance that that we have on the planet is designed to solve
national problems. But we're now faced with a whole
new category of what we could call global problems, or I would
call them simultaneous. You know they need simultaneous
problems. Which like Donald.

(19:15):
P are a new form of governance which we need to develop.
And, and the way that that process, I think of going, you
know, coming back to what you asked in the in the beginning is
a process of differentiation. You can't, you can't integrate
unless you first differentiate it.

(19:36):
And I think what people need to do in their mind is to
differentiate between national problems and global problems and
to realize that for national problems, we have, we need a
governance tool and that's the nation state.
But for global problems, we needa new kind of tool, and that's
simple. Or something very similar.
Yeah, it's. Simple.

(19:56):
Planetary citizens. And I think we're all.
Working on this together, right,We each, like I said before, we
each have a piece. And like in the 70s, Donald Keys
first began planetary citizens. He was euthants, the secretary
general of the UN, Donald was his speech writer.
And so they introduced the concept of planetary citizens
then, which was a borderless world.

(20:20):
And of course, we weren't ready for it.
I don't know if we are yet. And yeah, there's this
indication that, you know, well,maybe we ought to learn how to
work together and stop all this,you know?
Exactly. I mean, I think, I think the
idea of a borderless world is isactually not a healthy 1.
What we what we require is, is to find a framework through

(20:46):
which our bordered world can cooperate globally.
Sure. So let let me clarify what I
mean by borderless. The borders you you you find a a
way of of making every nation's of aligning every nation's
self-interest with the global interest.
Sure. Well, that in a sense creates A

(21:07):
borderless organization. Yeah, yes.
But it, but it's not, it's not ait doesn't, that organization
does not, does not demand or even want or need a borderless
world. But I think that's an important,
that's an important point to make Zen, I think, because, you
know, if you look at the a lot of the tensions going on, the

(21:29):
polarized political polarizationin the US or elsewhere, it's
basically about globalism against nationalism.
All right, so globalism to some degree, people you know who are
who are who are happy about immigration, who kind of want a
kind of borderless world and thenational.
That's a keyword. It's it's a, you know, in the

(21:53):
future, it's like Native Americans, they honour all
cultures, yet they have the distinct 1.
Indigenous people are like that people today.
The they still need to integratewith other cultures.
My wife and I were talking aboutthe importance of this.
You know, you can't take your culture into another culture

(22:14):
like America did in the 80s whenthey went into Europe and, and
tried to take American business over there.
And instead of studying the cultures that they were taking
it into, they tried to supplant American values and it didn't
work. Most of them failed as a result.
So here's the consideration, youknow, the the brilliance really

(22:36):
is not is being able to both be under to understand first of all
and then be understood. This is kind of what Covey says
in his fifth habit, right? Well, that's applicable on a
much larger scale, in my opinion, of learning how to find

(22:56):
this golden thread through the diversity that ties it all
together, which for me could be as simple as just learn how to
love and be loved, right? Because that's really the
essence of what we want in life.The, the, all the outer things
don't really matter. We need to feel that fulfillment

(23:17):
which comes from loving and being loved.
Yes, I mean that that that that that is true.
But it I wish it was that simpleI believe.
It is when you begin to focus onthe matters that matter.
The rest of it falls into place.But you've got to take your
distracted attention away from that which is distracting us

(23:39):
away from that notion before that notion can rise into its
rightful place. Because that's part of it.
You know, our design is to be part of a whole, right?
We're not islands. We're we're individually, we're
actually part of Mother Earth. Every cell in our body comes

(24:01):
from something that the Earth has produced.
So there's that lineage there that we don't understand or
recognize yet. And yet there's this
undercurrent as you're talking about this dissatisfaction with
how things are working in the world to the point of, you know,
going after resources and thingslike that from some and then

(24:25):
others just wanting to continue that pointing fingers and
blaming. And how helpful is that, Right?
So we're still immature. Oh gosh, yes, absolutely.
And I, and I think it, you know,the, the underlying, the
underlying dilemma is, is, I mean, we are all, we, we are

(24:47):
part and whole, aren't we, we are, we are both individuals,
but also part of the whole. And it's, and it's, how do you
reconcile the, the, the unity and the diversity?
How do you reconcile these two opposite all the globalism and
the nationalism? It's, you know, how do you
reconcile? And, and as I say, it seems to
me that, that you have to differentiate before you can

(25:09):
integrate. You can.
You have to differentiate. Exactly.
You've got to understand all thestriations, if you will, before
you got to understand the puzzle, before you can put it
together. Absolutely, yeah.
And that that's, that's precisely the, you know, that
that that's a huge issue. I think is, is understanding the

(25:30):
puzzle because I think most people in the world, at least in
the West would, would understandthe, the, the, the puzzle in, in
terms of nations, you know, understanding it through, they
look at the world through national glasses, but you need
to look at the whole world and, you know, because of
globalization, global economy, you need, you need to put on

(25:52):
some global glasses. Well, sure, you got to get out
of the nation against nation mindset.
Yeah. And figure out, OK, so, you
know, we're all humans. We all got the same blood.
We all have the same desire to love and be loved.
So how do we navigate that from that perspective?
What do we need to do to demonstrate our understanding

(26:15):
that that indeed is true? Yes, absolutely.
And, and you know, we need to dothat and, and to express that
in, in, in a through through, you know, that's what I regard
simple as being, is the outer expression of that inner unity,
reconciliation of unity and diversity.

(26:37):
As you say, we need we need to do it internally, but we then
also need to do it externally aswell then.
Right. Well, also in this, you know,
like you mentioned with the other organizations, the NGOs to
begin with, each of them have a specific mission that all needs
to come in together. It's like, you know, the
offering the the, the holistic model that we have on planetary

(27:00):
citizens with the Co creation wheel, you know, 12 sectors.
Each of those sectors had multiple organizations in them
that because of the work that they're doing, they
unintentionally become a silo. How do?
Those silos integrate the horizontal, you know,
application of what they're doing, which again, is that

(27:23):
golden thread. How do we tie into the work that
we're doing that fits in and howit fits in with everyone else?
And, and I know that's a challenge that's just only
recently come to light because of the Internet and the
interconnectivity of the world and instantaneous news, right,

(27:46):
which, you know, can prompt all kinds of things.
We hope that they're positive. Sometimes they're not, and
sometimes. As ever, there's some positive,
some negative. Right, right.
Well, and from, you know, from adepersonalized place, looking
at, OK, in the larger term, whatwould be the things that need to

(28:08):
happen in order for this evolutionary process of humanity
to move forward? And you know, we know it's all
chaos to order, right? That's the the process.
Well, we're going to experience that chaos first, which are
really just patterns we haven't recognized to navigate through
and and alter enough or become aware of so that we can change

(28:34):
the patterns in order to move forward or move forward better
than we have. Precisely, yeah.
And as you, as you say, it's about, you know, we need to
expand our consciousness from, from a, a, you know, in the
political terms from a nation centric level of consciousness
to a, a world centric level of consciousness.

(28:55):
And the nation centric is not bad.
Oh no, no, it has its place of. Its people.
And that, and that's again, why,why the differentiation is so
important, because if we can differentiate between, you know,
policies that can be implementedby nations alone, and on the
other hand, those that need global and simultaneous
implementation, you're you're you are, you are you're

(29:19):
supporting both as it becomes the both end do.
You find that this is pretty much a self initiated activity
on an individual level of the passion and purpose that people
feel to become involved in this kind of work.
Because most people, you know, we got to admit they're selfish

(29:44):
and self-centered. We've grown up to the, I think.
It's more, it's a more, I mean, in my experience then it's, you
know, when I started this, like I said, I, I thought this is
just so obvious and, and I, I found in talking to people that
most people didn't really understand.

(30:07):
A few people did, but most people didn't.
And I I thought, well, this mustbe because I'm not articulating
it correctly or either. Lack of critical thinking
skills. It's, but it's, as you say, it's
a lack of critical thinking skills and it's a lack people
because people can't understand what they can't model in their
minds. And if they can't model the

(30:27):
whole global system in their minds, they won't be able to see
destructive global competition, and therefore they won't
understand what simple's all about, or why we.
Absolutely, you know, and it applies to the same thing.
It's a consciousness problem. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
And it applies to the same thingas you know, we've talked about

(30:49):
awakenings and, and things for me and, and for others, this
inner experience that that goes beyond this world in many cases
without a direct experience of that individually.
If a person who's had that triesto tell a person who has not
what that experience is like, it's like you're on, you know,

(31:14):
talking Dutch. Yeah, you you miss each other
completely because there's no reference.
Exactly, exactly. I mean, you know what, the ways
I, I, you know, coming back to the, the NGOs like Greenpeace
and Friends of the Earth, you know, one of one of the things
I, I, I would love to suggest tothem is to say, guys, make a

(31:38):
list of all your policy demands and then ask yourself honestly,
which of them could be implemented by a nation alone
without harming it's economic competitiveness.
Now, if you know if they honestly did that exercise, they
would probably find that you know most of their policy

(32:01):
demands require a global and simultaneous approach.
Right. And in that way, you might be
able to sort of help them open their minds a little bit to to
well. It isn't a matter.
So one of the things that, you know, there was a guy back in
the 80s who wrote a book called The Strategy of the Dolphin.

(32:21):
His name's Dudley Lynch, who's adevelopment guy, right?
And he wrote another book later called Mother of All Minds.
And in it he presents the idea of the human being having an
alpha mind and an alpha chassis.So the mind body thing as we
have been, which is steeped in competition, right?

(32:45):
Then with the new consciousness,he's saying, OK, now we have the
opportunity to instill a beta mind still in the alpha chassis,
but the beta mind understands the concept of oneness.
Now what we do with that is still a huge challenge, right?

(33:05):
And then you've got science now today with quantum physics
saying, Oh yeah, it's all energy, we're all
interconnected. There are no boundaries right
from that level. So now that we understand the
natural state of things, how canwe then turn that understanding

(33:27):
back into the articulation in various ways of how that matters
in each one of those policies you were just talking about?
And where does it breach? Where does it not breach?
Where does it go beyond the competition into collaboration

(33:48):
with others in order to achieve it?
Yeah. I mean, I think it comes back
then to the differentiation because if you, if you
differentiate between unilateralpolicies, policies that nations
can implement alone without causing a competitive
disadvantage, nations can just carry on with those absolutely
independently. And then on the other hand, you

(34:11):
have those that that would causea competitive disadvantage and
therefore can only be safely implemented simultaneously.
And that way you you then get toa from a an either or
competitive situation to a both and situation where.
And there would also be the opportunity to look at that
competitive side as well and maybe make some adjustments to

(34:32):
make it less necessary for competition, right?
Well, I think especially in. Problem solving on a global
scale. Yeah, there, I mean, there will
always be competition, but it's a question of, you know,
competition needs, you know, to to be competition can be either
constructive or constructive, right.

(34:52):
So if you have a, a well, a wellregulated game of, of football,
the competition is constructive because it's well managed.
It's there's cooperative, it's, it's held within a framework of
cooperative governance. You know, the referee and the
lines guys and, and the rules and all the rest of it.

(35:13):
It gets destructive when those rules or the referee is
inadequate and the players can start to exploit the exploit
loopholes and and then it becomes destructive so.
Which would be the, you know, the entropy of a human designed
system. Now what about nature, right?

(35:35):
Is nature competitive with itself or or is it just so
diverse that things that it has an order we don't understand yet
in how it works together? I think there is there is there
is competition and cooperation in nature.
And this is what I'm saying is that is that, you know, you see,

(35:58):
I mean, what humans, humans are behave actually in, in no
differently to the most species.The most species don't have the,
you know, don't have the technological power and
knowledge that that they, that we have to sort of completely
destroy the planet. But they, they, you know,

(36:20):
there's competition in nature aswell, but it's limited.
It's, it's, it's kind of governed and controlled by
species, right? This is.
The natural order of things, yeah.
By the natural order of things, yeah, precisely.
And and it's do we understand how humanity works that sorry.
I'm sorry, I just do we understand how humanity works

(36:43):
yet is that part of what we're trying to figure out here is, is
how we actually work best with each other to find solutions for
these challenging problems that I I know that's kind of a
rhetorical question, The obviousanswer, right?
It's so simple. It's that it would be, yes, but.
It's how I think you're. Discovering.

(37:06):
Yeah, and I think it, I think itis very much an evolutionary,
evolutionary things. And because if you think about
it, all of you know, problems throughout human history from
from Stone Age to today have been solved through governance.
OK, so we've gone from families to tribes to middle-aged small,

(37:27):
small states to nation states. Why?
Because that there's an there's always been an expansion in the
unit of governance because as technology has developed, the
problems gradually outgrew the the life conditions outgrew the
governance system at the time. And therefore and therefore the

(37:48):
governance system had to expand to a new level in order to cope
with the the the biggest gap. And we're just simply at the
next stage in that, in that process now in that.
Process. Would you consider that there
are those who may have more information, design,

(38:08):
intelligence, knowledge, expertise to facilitate this?
And, and this is kind of what happens.
And, and maybe in the past, you know, it's been those with power
and, and wealth and, and it's been able to facilitate change
and organize and take care of others.
And, you know, kings and their kingdoms and, and now presidents

(38:29):
and their countries. But it's it's a different aspect
because of the numbers involved and the absolute intricacy of
how these systems are designed and their level of efficacy in

(38:51):
taking care of people, I mean. Absolutely.
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's never been more
complex. You know, the, the bigger, the
bigger the, the scale goes, the more complex it becomes.
And we are now global. We are now at the global scale,
like it or not. And, and, and that's why we need
some form of global cooperative governance.

(39:15):
That's why I was leaning, you know, is it so?
So this still has to have some kind of collective cooperation.
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
And you, you won't, you won't, you won't succeed without it.
And that's always been the case,you know, and what one of the
things I've discovered is and, and the evolutionary biologists

(39:37):
will will confirm this, is that in a funny sense, competition
drives cooperation in the sense that competition, yeah,
competition, you know, starts off, starts off sort of
constructive, then it gradually gets destructive.
But it becomes so intolerable that cooperation has to come in

(39:58):
to to save the save it from destruct, complete destruction.
And and, you know, that's sort of what's happening now.
We are, we have, you know, 200 odd competing nation States and
the world is is falling apart. It's getting worse and worse and
worse. The political polarisation that
we see is just a symptom of that.

(40:19):
And ultimately the only solutionwill be some form of global
cooperative governance, not a world government, but something
I like. I would like to think like
simple that that some. Type of administration that that
monitors. Basically a I'm sure there is.
Getting along. Is like a global treaty.

(40:42):
It's not a world government, it's a global treaty, but it's
one that is much more coordinated and would be
implemented simultaneously so that no nation loses out and
everybody would win. Now that's a.
Philosophy that many would disagree with.
That sorry. That's a philosophy many would

(41:04):
disagree with, you know, becauseof the.
Oh yeah, there's. Many who would disagree with it,
but there's many people who would just simply say, Oh, well,
that'll never happen, you know, and that's, that's probably the
biggest objection that I hear. And I understand that.
But I think people need to realize that it's not the
suggestion of simultaneous implementation that is

(41:26):
outlandish. It's the fact that people's
consciousness is is still lagging so far behind, you know,
you know, if if people really understand, like we were saying
before, when people understand the whole puzzle, then something
like simultaneous implementationis just, oh, yeah, but that's
obvious. Yeah, Of course, if you don't
understand the whole puzzle, youwould say, oh, that'll never

(41:49):
happen. And and you know.
And right. And, and it's generally because
of that lack of interconnection that people have that prompts
that, right? Yeah, there's this.
And it's unfortunate, yet true. We've been focused on building
the outer world and, and learning its constructs, its

(42:10):
designs, its, you know, our our ability to manipulate it to our
satisfaction. And yet there's been this, you
know, repertoire of, of ancient texts and, and spiritual
practices and things like that, that, as I mentioned before, are
self initiating. You can't force someone to look

(42:33):
inside and change. That's something each individual
has to do on their own. And when they do, that changes
their trajectory as far as the ability for critical thinking,
their desire for education, their want of having, you know,
an expanded culture and, and aesthetics in their lives.

(42:56):
You know, music and literature and those kinds of things which
have all been kind of put to theside here over the last century
and the building of workforces through educational systems that
served at that time a world at war in.
The. 1940s and that same system still exists.

(43:21):
It hasn't morphed into what it needs to be, especially in
dealing with student centered activities.
We're still trying to put them in boxes, test them, do you
know, data scoring, ranking, normalizing, all those kinds of
things. But the individual has gotten
lost in that. And with neurodiversity today,

(43:42):
we're losing out on a lot of opportunity to utilize
intelligence, skill, even brilliance in applying them to
this evolutionary path we're on.Absolutely and I and I think
it's, you know, it's what what you're describing Zen is, is the
cycle of of the is the psychological truncation that

(44:08):
we. Well, as I say, we're still in.
It's like we are we the more, the harder we compete, the the
more sort of narrow, narrowly focused we become.
And then and and so the, the whole perspective cooperation
just seems out of this world when you're sort of so focused
on on competing and winning and and so on.

(44:31):
And and so I think it's it's a challenge to to get people to
see that there is a whole world outside of this very narrow,
very Trump. We're, we're playing a 0 summer
game currently, right? We're headed in the wrong,
pretty much the wrong direction.We we have time to wake up.

(44:53):
There are things that need to bedone and what do you find in in
when looking at things in the evolutionary process and the
agreements that you get that we need to do that?
What's the scope of a timeline that people are are thinking?
Well, if we don't do this by such and such a date, then we're

(45:16):
all screwed, right? Is there an obvious or a
consistent answer or theory of when that might be?
I, I don't, I don't think so. I mean, I think think, you know,
we're on we're on the wrong path, but in a sense we're on
the right path in the sense thatthat like I say, you know, the

(45:39):
the evil, it's on the. Path right.
Whether it's right or wrong, it's moving.
Forward. The competition has to become so
destructive before people suddenly realize cooperation's
the only answer you know, so so in a sense.
And is the competition for munition sales.
Well, it's, it's everything, isn't it?
It's it's, you know. I'm just pointing to the war and

(45:59):
you know, it's killing people. The right thing to show the
killing people are wrong. It's wrong, Yeah, I mean it.
It just doesn't make any sense. I mean the competition in the in
the broadest sense, but you know, people, people won't,
right? You know that I don't think
there is a timeline. I think all we have we have to
do is to realize that. Well, time's malleable.

(46:20):
And so always produces a crisis and, and the, you know, the the
only solution to that crisis hasalways been and will always be
cooperation. And so you know how how long
that will even. More now what's the difference
between cooperation and collaboration?
That in your opinion? Oh, well, there's never not not

(46:45):
necessarily any real difference,but I think it's, you know, I
think the, the, the, you know, this is also where the
intentional evolution comes intoit is that is that, you know,
competition, sorry, cooperation in the past has always worked
because there's always been someoutside force that has made made
it in the interests of the combatants to work together

(47:07):
because otherwise they'll be threatened by this outside.
Force. The problem now under
globalization is that is that there, you know, there is no,
there are no aliens from outer space that are that are
threatening us that would drive humanity to cooperate as a unit.
And so the what? I'm laughing on this because

(47:29):
the, you know, part of my life, it has been in association with
beings from other worlds. And I know it sounds absolutely
crazy to some, yet absolutely sane to others because I'm
actually admitting that it does happen.
And from my experience and from all those that I've talked with

(47:50):
that have had interactions with other worlds, there's no
malevolence there. There's only encouragement for
us to mature, Yes. And I'm sure, and I mean I think
if, if you know, if I, if I think about if there were aliens
from other planets, they would, they would not interfere because

(48:12):
they would under, they would only be well.
Yeah, Gene Rodberry was right. That's the.
They would only be. They would only be here because
there from their planet, they had already reached a global
cooperative maturity. And therefore when they
encounter us, they would realizewe need to leave them alone.
They're they're in their own maturation process.

(48:34):
Better just leave them alone. Right.
But we can't interfere now. You know this goes into like the
hardship scale. That's why I think, you know, so
because we don't have that pressure, that out of pressure,
you know, global cooperation hasto be intelligently designed.
It has to be consciously designed and striven for and and

(48:56):
it won't just happen all by itself.
You know, the, the thing about consciousness, again, you know,
when you're looking at, think ofthe consciousness that that
would need to be present to develop interdimensional travel,
for instance, right. Looking at the Kardashev's
scale, you know, Type 1-2 and three civilizations, which is as

(49:17):
far as he took it, the Type 1 uses the energy of the planet to
serve its energy requirements. That takes a certain kind of
oneness consciousness to developand implement.
Then you've got Type 2 which uses the solar system.
So that includes a little bit oftechnology and how to move about
space effectively. And then a Type 3 uses galactic

(49:41):
energy. So then this approaches that
level of being able to understand travelling with a
thought, right or developing thetechnology that the that's bio
integrated that allows that process to take place.
And the level of consciousness that's there is something we

(50:02):
have yet to understand yet. For instance, referencing the
experience or the contactees or UFO contactees or whatever you
want to call that population. The most consistent thing about
it is that when they have these encounters, it feels like total
love coming from them. So that's a well.

(50:24):
I, I, I can't, I can't speak to that because I, I, I don't
really well. There's plenty of references to
it for those who want to do the research and and my own
experience has been such right that their level of
consciousness is so that they operate in that place of
complete union with themselves. They've integrated their inner

(50:47):
and outer experience to the point where it's one.
There's no difference between the two.
Yeah, Yeah. Well, you know, they, they, they
are, you know, if, if they exist, they're, they're no doubt
much more advanced than than we are.
And well. Absolutely.
And I guarantee I stake my life on it because I've had the

(51:08):
direct experience of which many don't relate to because they
have not had it. There are hundreds of thousands
of those like me who had experiences and don't talk about
it for the very reason that theyget rejected in public.
And yeah, I understand. Yeah, downplaying all of that.
Well, I don't care anymore and you know it is what it is.

(51:28):
And you're not going to take my truth away from me, Not I'm
seeking of you. I'm just talking about.
No, no, no, I don't. Don't, don't, wouldn't, wouldn't
say that at all, you know? Sometimes misunderstandings can
occur with those you know, general questions or comments,
right? Yeah, I mean, I sympathize in
the sense that, you know, I that's, it's very, you know, I,

(51:49):
I sort of feel with simple, it'salmost a similar situation
because the action of most people is that, well, that will
never happen. So, you know, it's, it's kind of
the same kind of disbelief that you're talking about.
It has to happen for us to become a flourishing, thriving

(52:09):
civilization as opposed to one that's dominated and controlled
by a few, by management of resources, right.
And, And so, you know, when we cannot call ourselves fully
human, in my opinion, until poverty is eradicated, until

(52:30):
hunger is eradicated, until proper housing is, you know, the
homelessness is eradicated. Now, how do we do that?
You know, there's propositions, there's things.
Back in the 90s, I was involved in a small group of people.
We had some property in a business district or outside of

(52:55):
town, sort of. And in this industrial area, we
had manufacturers that were making shipping containers into
apartments that could be stacked.
We had, you know, ideas for community gardens and, you know,
rec centers, things like that. And we presented it to the city.
The city loved it, and the neighborhood rejected it because

(53:15):
they didn't want it in their backyard.
So if we're going to have these things happen, then that
neighborhood needs to be a little more compassionate.
And that's what we're missing. Yes, yes, that that's, that is
true. And I think also we need we, we,

(53:39):
we unfortunately need the pressure of knowing that if we
don't find a solution together that we're all going to suffer.
Sure. Well, and we're like teenagers
too, right? You tell that, you know,
teenager. Well, you got to go do that.
The first thing they'll do is say fuck you.
Pardon the French, right? Because they don't want to be

(54:00):
told what to do. A lot of adults don't want to be
told what to do. Absolutely.
How do we? Nurture that understanding and
and lead them to their own better choices.
Well, your guess is as good as mine.
You know I. I conversations like this
certainly help, right? Yeah, I mean, what, you know,

(54:21):
what I'm trying to do with simple is to show people that
there is a, a, a framework and Aand a way of thinking and A and
a methodology that can allow us to deal with global level
problems in a way that is in every nation's interests.
But how, how you get people to to see that Zen, I don't know.

(54:49):
To see it agree, you know what Imean?
That's the you got to see it before you can agree with it.
Now, how does simple as you know, we've talked about our own
collaboration between simple andplanetary citizens.
And I love how we're at least attempting to be an example of
what we're talking about, right?So in that, how do we make that

(55:13):
like the simple right? You you're wanting to global,
let me try to express this correctly.
To globalize activity that everyone can agree on needs to
happen and to do it in a simultaneous way through

(55:34):
agreement through the nation states governments that we
actually need to do this. And then that would seem
naturally that there would be a,a need for some type of council
or administration or group or something of collective, you
know, of representatives that are, they're kind of like

(55:56):
diplomats to help facilitate that happening.
That's not, well, that's not really quite the way we envisage
it. But so, so we we we really would
put citizens at the you know whowho are the ones who would drive
the policy citizens in Democratic.
Countries. I didn't mean to to diminish

(56:16):
that. I understood that I took it to
the next level. And once that takes place, then
what? And then then because because we
through simple, we are using ourvotes in a in a way that
politicians and governments really can't ignore.
And indeed, that's how we've actually managed to get more
than 100 members of of the UK Parliament and member of

(56:38):
Parliament in other countries toto support the process and to to
sign the pledge to implement SIMpoll.
It's citizens who are really in control through their votes and
the. Citizens distracted the way they
are with the Internet and the shorts and the, you know,
because the generation that's coming up, boomers had the

(57:01):
largest population. Now we're beginning to fade away
and this new generation, which is even bigger, is, you know, it
seems like they're just darting around all over the place and
and. Oh yeah, Well, you know, this
is, this is part of the. This is part of the.
Cats. This is part of the chaos that
that the seeds you know that will hopefully proceed some kind

(57:24):
of coordination and cooperation,but.
Well, and maturity has somethingto do with it too.
You know, as you move through decades in life, you can look
back and and see the maturity that's garnered through that
just life experience. Yes, yeah, that's right.
And I, you know, I think all, all, all all one can do is to

(57:45):
gather together. And that's what we're trying to
do with simple is to gather together those people like such
as yourselves, then who, who, who do see the global hustle,
who do see the whole picture, Because I think when when we
band together, then we we can pull the everyone else up.
We have a chance to become. Magnets, I would think.

(58:07):
And it's again, it's relative tophysics.
Right. Sorry, it's a physics property,
you know you. It's that music too.
What do they call it? Sympathetic chords.
Yes, yeah, yeah. But I think it's it's also like
if you you know, if there's if, if there's a kind of political

(58:29):
mass of people who are lead, it's a little bit like the
Enlightenment. the Enlightenmentdidn't occur through everybody
suddenly understanding rationality.
It was led by a relatively smallnumber of people, you know,
Voltaire and Newton and and so on.
And I think it will be the same at the now when we talk about
global cooperation. That's why you and I are talking

(58:51):
together and, and hopefully others will join us.
And I think if we can create a cohesive network of, of
individuals and movements that are, that are supporting global
cooperation and, and an actual means to implement it, such as
simple, then I think we have a chance to bring others with us,

(59:11):
the ones who at the moment are very distracted through the
Internet and. Well, I wonder, you know, are we
expecting? So.
Much out of this younger generation knowing where we're
at and because they're just learning, they're just hopefully
beginning to learn how to have fun with life and professions.
And you know, they're just beginning this launch into the

(59:36):
world as it is and finding theirown place in it.
Are we expecting too much from them, or have we also
contributed to to their own confusion and chaos because
we're trying to push too much atthem?
Right. I mean, yes, probably, I mean,

(59:59):
I'm sure that you know, but we, we know that life as a whole is,
is, is is chaotic and confusing.And now it's more confusing than
ever with, as you say, with the Internet and all these social
media platforms and so on. It can.
Be for an undisciplined mind. Yeah, but they, you know, they

(01:00:20):
are young people and they're, they're, you know, some of them
are perhaps not very disciplined.
But I think, as I say, at the end of the day, I think it'll be
a combination of outer circumstances becoming so
critical that it's going to force people towards
cooperation. Plus, as I say, a network of, of
people like ourselves who, who with, with a framework such as

(01:00:44):
simple, can actually hopefully track people who are beginning
to, you know, who, who are beginning to, to listen because
the pressure and the chaos is becoming too much for them.
You know, it's becoming unsustainable basically.
But who knows? I mean, I, I, you know, I think
it's very difficult to, to predict anything.

(01:01:05):
Is it, isn't it? You know, I mean, who knows how
things will work? Why?
Would you want to when you have the opportunity of designing and
constructing what happens, right.
This is one thing that we miss is that we are creators.
We absolutely can move mountainsand.

(01:01:27):
We need to that way. We can dig tunnels through them,
We can even bore in the earth and create cities underground.
You know, these dumb deep underground military bases that
that many people know about, right?
Those are whole cities that are underground, designed for taking
care of those. And any kind of, you know,
global catastrophe, be that a nuclear war or whatever, or

(01:01:50):
catastrophe or an earth shift, right, earthquakes, things of
that nature which are beginning to happen much more.
And this again, is the Earth having its own evolutionary
cycle, right? That we don't necessarily it's
like 4.2 billion years old or something like that.
What do you think? It's gone through some changes

(01:02:12):
during that time? And you know, we don't matter
during. Absolutely, absolutely.
And, and and this is it, you know, if we don't, if we don't
cooperate, nature will just flick us off the planet in a
high. But that doesn't necessarily
mean we have to work to change nature.

(01:02:32):
We have to work to understand it.
More a lot of. The like bio mimicry, right?
This is really gone into that realm of looking at, you know,
the systems and patterns of nature and how we can turn those
into human applicable ones that we can grow and and nurture
ourselves with. And there's the other, you know,

(01:02:54):
looking at, OK, how's the earth set up?
We understand the seismology andand we have, you know, data out
the yin Yang about for instance,the Ring of Fire that's around
the Pacific, right? All the, the ring of volcanoes
that a couple of them or 1/2 have gone off near Russia

(01:03:15):
recently, one at 8.81 at 7.4 or something like that in the
shifting right. So what if that cascades through
the rest of the rim? And is this an indicator that
that could indeed be in process?And what do we do to prepare for
that? Do we ignore it's happening and

(01:03:38):
and keep the populations clustered on the coastlines?
Or do we begin to say, hey, look, this is coming.
We need to kind of be thoughtfuland mindful of you people and
wanting to protect lives. And maybe you might want to
consider, you know, moving inland.
Well, that's right. Then we can't.

(01:03:59):
Force it. We've got to.
We've got to cooperate and adaptor we won't survive.
That's a simple mystery. Whether we're on the, when we're
on the Ring of Fire, whether we're in the world, the whole.
And, and this whole process, youknow, it, we're especially with
AI and all the information that we are in an apocalypse and the

(01:04:19):
apocalypse, it's basic meaning it many people confuse it.
I think he asked 99 people and and, or ask 100 people, probably
93 of them will say it's the endof the world, right?
There might be a few that are intelligent enough to know the
root of the word and what it means, which is uncovering
knowledge, right? So as all this knowledge, I

(01:04:42):
mean, look at what AI is doing. It's not artificial
intelligence, it's aggregated human knowledge.
And this is then what it queriesin order to come up with new
answers. Well, if you've got all this
data available, that gives the opportunity for a consciousness

(01:05:03):
that's inside of it to say, well, what about this?
Would you like me to take that and do this right?
Because there's this sense of anticipation of next steps that
are totally logic driven. Yeah.
Now how could we learn from that?

(01:05:26):
Well, I think we, we, you know, we have, there's lots to learn.
I think certainly any, any, any technology can be used for good
or evil. And I think IAI has a lot, a lot
going for it, which would be very, very promising and hugely,
potentially hugely beneficial tohumanity, as you say.

(01:05:48):
But it it it will need to be regulated like all but we.
Need to understand its capabilities and its right use.
Right. Well.
Absolutely. Before.
Before it's too late. Well, you know, when I first
jumped into it, my stepson introduced it to it in his

(01:06:08):
junior in high school after he got in trouble for using it.
But then I kind of put it off and then I started looking at
it, and the one thing I noticed immediately was the emotional
intelligence it carried. I didn't.
I didn't know that, but you know.
I well, I don't know that it wasintended.
It's just something that in the responses I got from my queries,

(01:06:34):
it demonstrated it right. And you have to have it in order
to respond in the way that it did.
It's not something you just, youknow, I started to pull out of
thin air that obviously they pull it out of of thin chips.
And in this though, there's thisamalgamation of information that

(01:06:55):
has this underlying human friendly, compassionate,
emotionally intelligent consciousness.
And I see it replicated in everyinstance that I've engaged and
other friends have too. And yet there's this fear that

(01:07:16):
it's going to take over and and things, you know, there may be
those who are trying to manipulate that.
I'll, I'll sure there will with the panoply of of, you know, the
gamut of human consciousness or or human activity, good evil,
right there are, you know, the mixtures where people can be so

(01:07:37):
self-serving that they can do itand attempt to destroy others in
the process. Statistically, that is probably
the case. And yet this is not going to
change AI being present. Oh, no, no, no, no.

(01:08:00):
Like I say, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's the same
throughout human history. With any new technology, it has
to be regulated, which means that it doesn't, you know, you
don't get rid of it, but you, you have to, you have to
regulate so that you regulate out the bads and keep the goods.
Now there's a regulation comes from two different places again,

(01:08:23):
right? Do you rely on the mindfulness
and the consciousness of the individuals to know the
difference and implement their own best use toward human
development or their own development?
Or do you place outer regulations and impose the rules

(01:08:50):
on others with some type of consequences in the process?
I would think both occur, right?It's, it's that that would be
logical because we still are in this bifurcated state of inner
and outer realities that as those begin to come together and
we see ourselves being reflectedlike in AI, right?

(01:09:13):
Because all it is is a reflection of us.
So how do we if we don't like that reflection, how do we
change it? Well, I think you know, it's,
it's, again, it's, I think it's a question of determining what
is in the realm of the individual and what is in the
realm of the collective. And you know, the, the, the

(01:09:36):
regulation will be required probably in both realms.
But again I. Think to begin with, until we
can develop a consciousness and a conscience that's applicable
to this understanding of onenessand acquiescing toward it.

(01:09:56):
Yes, yes, I mean, I think I, I think the, The thing is, is
we're all we're all born needingto learn.
And so you will always have, youknow, it's like, I don't know,
laws against where. Do we come from is, is there a
unity consciousness before we come here that we're part of

(01:10:17):
that then we. Have to that's that's a.
Different question. Yeah, right.
I think that's a different question.
It it's slightly right if everything's connected, if there
is flow to our existence, which the IT it's indicated that there
is, then are we simply relearning here in the physical

(01:10:40):
form what we already knew from where we came?
Probably, yeah, yeah. And I'm sure that's, that is
the, the, the, the me. The purpose of life in a way is
is to rediscover what we, what we, you know, to to, to peel
back the onion from from where we actually all came from in the

(01:11:01):
beginning. Right.
Right. You know which, which is that
that oneness. Well, and.
We're just in, you know, we're in form now, so we get to figure
out all the different. Know each other and know
ourselves. Yeah, yeah.
And you know, ultimately, I think when you see it from that
place, it frees up the constraints to the fear based
systems that have been in place and and it opens one up to at

(01:11:25):
least admitting that there's a possibility, right?
We don't know how we don't know what we don't know, right?
That's. Part of what we need to know and
realize that there are some things we just don't know yet
and we need to leave that door open for that information to
come in when it's necessary. Yeah, that's, that's that, that,

(01:11:46):
that is of course that is absolutely right.
And, you know, I mean, I think in, in terms of the, the more
practical outer world that we live in, you know, evolution has
a lot to teach us about, you know, how, how we achieve that
oneness at new levels so that we, we, we do evolve and, and

(01:12:12):
hopefully stay alive on this planet.
Well, I, I think it, you know, we're, we're going to flip
Darwin's theory on, on its head instead of, you know, the
survival of the fittest, we're, it's leaning towards the
survival was cooperative. Well, he, yeah, I mean Darwin,
Darwin actually never survival of the fittest wasn't actually
Darwin's saying it was one of his.

(01:12:33):
I think it was, was it Herbert Spencer or somebody who, who,
who read him and, and Darwin after Origin of the Species, he
wrote another book, I can't remember the name of it now,
where he talked about cooperation being just as
important as competition. So I think people talk about
Darwinism as as being sort of this sort of survival.
You know, like the. That's not quite, that's not

(01:12:55):
what he that was only half of what he was was talking about.
Now, would this also speak to how unintentionally or
intentionally the manipulation of our understanding has
occurred by using those kinds ofphrases that the person that

(01:13:16):
didn't necessarily say but yeah,that's attributed to and
everybody, you know, it's kind of like I had a conversation
with Howard Bloom. What a brilliant mind.
He's written many books and one of them's called The Lucifer
Principle, and in that he goes over historically how small
groups of people have manipulated masses by telling

(01:13:38):
lies repeatedly until they're believed to be true.
And it goes on and. Still, so that's part of the
discernment that we need to develop is like, you know, how,
how do we, when we hear something, how do we determine
its level of truth if it is right?

(01:13:58):
The natives and indigenous have this system called the three
brain system. It's the gut heart and the head,
right? And they actually knew about
quantum physics way before we did because we connect with the
vibrations, which everything is vibration, right?
At a gut level, intuition, gut feeling, all of those phrases

(01:14:19):
that have been around forever that demonstrate that, although
we generally second guess those and move into what we think
ought to be rather than acknowledge.
Where the the ego comes in, it'swe're back to where we started
right at the beginning. Aren't we Zen?
Yeah, exactly. The more.
You take your ego out of it. The more you listen to those,
you know the guts. Please stop thinking so.

(01:14:41):
Then you stop. Thinking and you pay, you're
feeling and you know we can't think our way through a system
built on vibration. That's.
Our way through and then think about it, that's where the, you
know, continuation of that, the heart, second brain, that's
where it's like the Dallas, right, undesirable or desirable.

(01:15:03):
And there's a gamut in that. And then once you have that
distillation of energy, then youoffer the rest of it up to the
brain, which can then make more appropriate choices as to what
to do with it because the data is clearer.
Yes, Yes, Exactly. Exactly.
Yeah, precisely. Right.

(01:15:24):
It's and it's amazing. Again, if you haven't had that
experience, it's hard to relate to that, but I guarantee you
everybody has experienced a gut feeling.
Oh yes, and then ignored it and was it's right, right.
So there's your evidence. What if you'd have paid

(01:15:45):
attention to that? And what if you pay attention to
that gut feeling every time it happens?
Or at least pause and go, oh, what's this right?
Rather than supplanting what youbelieve it might be and and just
shut up and don't think. And let the.
Answer emerge and it. Yes, yeah, the answers are as

(01:16:10):
you say are are often latent already inside us, but we just
failing to connect with them because because our egos and
yeah and yeah, all of that's getting in the way, isn't it so.
So I I. Kind of laugh sometimes because
people talk about mindfulness and, and in a sense what we need

(01:16:30):
is mindlessness. If we let, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. Yeah, yeah.
From that sense, absolutely right, the and yet the
connotation for mindfulness often stems from that going into
that place of nothingness, right?
That's the recursive function going into nothingness, which is

(01:16:52):
where everything comes from. We've been taught that too,
right? And then waiting for that right
use of energy or that more harmonious or, or just the the
appropriate energy. Yeah.
To emerge that carries the thoughts that go along with it,

(01:17:13):
that then allows you to take action on whatever it is.
That that that then is exactly what happened in that moment in
1998. I it was like this well.
Gosh, it only took 60 minutes tofigure that out That.
State of emptiness. That, that, that, that, that was
inside that. Suddenly it all came into that
state, that empty state, and andthen it became clear, very

(01:17:36):
clear. Oh, and time, there's no time in
that, right? It's just boom, it's an.
Instant. Yeah, exactly.
Completely, completely simultaneous.
And I understand. I, I had questions about that,
right? I've got this voracious radical
curiosity. It's like, OK, so what's the
speed of thought? Oh goodness, yeah.
Yeah. So fortunately, I was introduced

(01:17:58):
to this book called the Urantia Book, and it's the only place
I've ever been able to find a reference to it.
And in that they now the Garantia book is a collection of
transmissions, channellings, if you will, through a farmer in
the Midwest in the 20s and 30s that was eventually compiled

(01:18:20):
into a book in the Fifties, 2000pages.
And it covers the spiritual material hierarchy of creation
to a very deep degree. I mean, it's really heavy
reading. However, what it does say in
there about the speed of thoughtwas that it's 841 trillion miles
per second. Wow, wow.

(01:18:43):
How did he work that out? That's fantastic.
Well, coming from those realms again, you know, things that
come through to us from other realms we don't understand and
yet obviously are part of because of that evidence.
Yes, we need to surely question it, but just to consider that

(01:19:06):
and the instantaneousness of what we can manifest if our
thoughts are powerful enough, including teleportation, right?
And which is what this again back to that bio spiritual
technology that these other races have that we don't yet

(01:19:30):
because we haven't developed theconsciousness that even could
understand it, let alone. Use it.
Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's so much as you
say. It's it's, it's keeping our
minds open to the infinite possibilities of, you know what
we don't understand? Right.
Those, those are two places, that same place, probably

(01:19:51):
because both of them, the awe and the wonder of creation and
how it's designed and how impeccably it works when you
tune into it. Yeah, Yeah.
Exactly. Yeah.
Now speaking to tuning in, we'reabout to tune out because we're
we're heading towards the end oftime.

(01:20:12):
And I really appreciate this conversation, John.
Yeah. Me too.
Me too. Yeah.
Really enjoyed it. Thank you.
You're you're so welcome. Now, before we Part 1 is at
least temporarily if you could or had some advice or or
leadership message to others, individual and collective, how

(01:20:41):
with your work and how you've seen that progress and and the
effect it's had on you and bringing you into a deeper sense
of alignment. What might you offer for others
on a on a simple, no pun intended, in a simple framework,

(01:21:01):
right? Well, you know, I can only offer
the, the, the work that I've that I've done in the
organization that that I've started, but which is, is really
an organization of every citizenthat that who signs onto it.
It's really not mine at all. It's, it's, it's ours.

(01:21:23):
And you know, I would encourage people just to check out
simple.org and to have a look. There's also the book you
referred to, then the simple solution.
I'm authored with Nick Darfur, who's a psychotherapist.
I wrote it with a psychotherapist because it's
it's a question of consciousness.

(01:21:44):
Because it sounded so insane, you needed to have somebody to
give you some grounding, right? Yeah, so that's what I'd suggest
people could start if they want to find out about, about simple
a little bit more. And you know, I, I really look
forward to working with planetary citizens and, and, and

(01:22:05):
you know, the, the wider networkthat hopefully we can build
together. Absolutely, absolutely.
I look forward to that too. And thank you again so much.
My pleasure and thanks for sticking with us for this
episode of One World in a New World.
I'm Zen Benefield, your host. And by all means, do subscribe,
like, share and go to planetarycitizens.net download

(01:22:27):
Planetary citizens awakening theheart of humanity.
I guarantee you, you will love it.
Thanks again and I'll see you next time.
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(01:22:48):
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