Ep 214 - Bio-Brains & Beyond - Neural Intelligence with Dr. Ewelina Kurtys

Ep 214 - One World in a New World with Dr. Ewelina KurtysHow can living neurons redefine the future of AI and energy consumption?What does neuroscience teach us about our capacity to navigate rapid technological change?Step into the mind of a scientist blazing trails in the frontier of bio-inspired computing. In this illuminating episode of One World in a New World, Zen Benefiel sits down with Dr. Ewelina Kurtys, a neuroscientist and strategic advisor working at the fascinating crossroads of living neural networks and artificial intelligence. From humble beginnings in Poland to the cutting edge of neurotechnology, Dr. Kurtys shares her deeply human story of curiosity, courage, and cognitive exploration.Discover how passion, process, and perspective shape our collective future—and how her work with living neurons might just change the energy game in AI. This is more than science—it’s a look into how we evolve together.✨ Join the conversation. Explore the future. Awaken the present.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share.Download Planetary Citizens: Awakening the Heart of Humanity at https://PlanetaryCitizens.netConnect with Ewelina: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ewelinakurtys/#Neuroscience #BioComputing #AIRevolution #PlanetaryCitizens #OneWorldNewWorld #ConsciousTech #EwelinaKurtys #ZenBenefielJoin this channel to get access to perks:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuZl_29zHxehqeL89KSCWFA/join__________One World in a New World Compilation (3 years): https://amzn.to/3VdhQSg__________Visit: https://PlanetaryCitizens.netConnect with Zen: https://linkedin.com/zenbenefielZen's books: https://amazon.com/author/zendorZen's Coaching: https://BeTheDream.com Zen's CV et al: https://zenbenefiel.comThe Octopus Movement (non-linear thinkers): https://theoctopusmovement.org Live and Let Live Global Peace Movement: https://liveandletlive.org

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Explore the thoughtless sphere Embark on a life changing
journey of self discovery. Embrace harmony with self, with
others, with Earth, one world ina new world.
Zen Benefiel skillfully ignites conversations, guiding guests to
reveal personal journeys and perspectives.

(00:20):
Listeners are inspired to seek knowledge and find wisdom in
their own lives. Join this transformative journey
as we navigate the depth of human Namaste and in LA Ketch.
And welcome to this episode of One World in a new world.
I'm your host, Zen Benefiel. And as always, please do like,

(00:42):
subscribe, share profusely. It benefits everyone.
And I invite you to visit planetarycitizens.net where you
can download my book called Planetary Citizens Awakening the
Heart of Humanity. It's an exposition of where we
are, how we can be and where we can go.

(01:03):
That really makes sense. So appreciate the visit.
Now this week's guest is Doctor Yulina Curtis.
She's into bio inspired computing, right, Neuroscience.
She's a strategic advisor for advancing neurocomputers.
One of the things that I really enjoyed about her is she says
what we're computing and organoid intelligence is

(01:25):
emerging is a an emerging research field at the
intersection of electrophysiology and artificial
intelligence. The recent rise in wetware
computing and consequently artificial biological neural
networks comes at a time when artificial neural networks are

(01:47):
more sophisticated than ever. So we're going to have a great
conversation. She's got a PhD in neuroscience.
She's got a post doc from King'sCollege, Master of Science and
Biotechnology and pharmacy. This is just going to be an
amazing conversation. So we'll be right back.
Don't go away. You know, in personal and

(02:07):
professional transformation and transcendence, actually there's
all kinds of elements that are involved, components, if you
will, that are within yourself that you can bring out into the
environment that you're in and display a whole different
attitude, aptitude, altitude, and success in whatever it is

(02:29):
that you're after. And I can help you do that.
Elena, it is so great to have you here.
Thank you for joining us. Thank you so much.
Now you're kind of aware from a previous conversation that of
the nature of these conversations.
So I know that, you know, we're bereft of the inner and outer

(02:53):
bridges in a lot of cases, and we have these inner experiences
that drive our outer lives in a lot of cases with some sense of
purpose in the world. Now, as you were growing up when
you were younger, were there anykinds of experiences that you
had that kind of gave you an idea that there is a more

(03:14):
interconnectedness than most of us realize?
As far as I remember when I was a child, I always dreamed about
being a scientist. And I grew up in a small village
in Poland, in northwest of Poland.
So I always had a lot of contactwith nature.
So I think nature gives you thismaybe this feeling that

(03:36):
everything is connected, that weare connected with the weather,
with the with all the, you know,with all the plants around and
animals. So I think maybe that gives you
kind of like sense of continuity.
But I have to say that I always was more in the books and I
always dreamed about actually understanding how the word

(03:58):
works. So I was most always mostly
fascinated by the scientific part on how to understand
things, but with scientific method would.
You say that you understood it on a spiritual basis, which is
unthinking, not knowing, just knowing, right, not having to
think things through. And so then you had the quest

(04:22):
for OK, how does science back this up?
No, actually I think that spiritual understanding comes
with experience when you get older.
I think as a child, at least forme, I didn't understand
anything, I think. True, true.
I'm not saying you did, but it made you curious, right?
That's what led you to try to understand the science behind

(04:44):
that initial feeling that you had.
Maybe you were aware of it, maybe you weren't.
I just. I don't remember.
I just remember that always all the questions around the nature,
why things happen that were always the most fascinating.
I think it just comes to us whatwhat interests us, so we never
know why. Absolutely, Absolutely.

(05:06):
Yeah. It, it's a, it's a nature thing,
right? We all have particular designs,
right? And, and as you've gotten into
things that later on in life youunderstand the design function.
And if there is a natural order to things, then maybe we are
part of that as well because we are connected to nature.

(05:27):
Everything in nature comes from the earth.
Everything inside of us comes from the earth too, but we don't
really correlate that right? Everything that we consume comes
from the Earth. Yes, it's true all the matter is
going around, Yes. Yeah, yeah.

(05:48):
So in in when you were younger and, and the you had this, you
know, the experiences in nature.Can you recall a time that you
know, just really left you with a in a feeling of elation of how
connected things were and the awe and the wonder that you had
in that moment? I think that these things come,

(06:09):
I still have to say it comes later when you are adult because
I, I have impression that as a child you see individual things.
At least that was my experience that you can see the details.
And actually the same happened in your education that when I
was young, I, I could focus on the details.
And when you actually get older,you have more experience then

(06:30):
actually you start to see thingsmore in the high level.
So that at least from the children, from the child, I
didn't understand absolutely anything, how things were
connected. And I remember I was always
curious about this. I wanted to know everything
about anyone and just to understand people choices and
why things happen. But.

(06:51):
Radical curiosity, huh? Yes, but I think it comes later.
Later you have some idea about the world and well.
I think it depends on, on the childhood, on the child, on the
individual and, and you know, aswe have an example of the
population spread through the bell curve, right, You've got
those outliers on either side that are also part of that

(07:15):
statistical display or array, ifyou will.
Yes. Be that as it may, you know, and
I say that I'm I'm on the other end.
I had that as a kid and I didn'tI just felt like everything was
connected. It was natural and and maybe it
was from being orphaned and adopted where I had this larger
perspective of connectivity, right, rather than separation

(07:40):
from that. Can't explain it, just did.
And then later on his Life, OK, what are the finer details and
how can I share what I find out with others so that they can be
better equipped, which is what you're doing too now.
Now, in this evolution, when didyou first begin to see that

(08:03):
there was a direction that you wanted to head in looking at our
Physiology, how it works and what can be done with that on a
larger scale? I think I just followed my
instincts always and again, I don't know why.
It just happens that somethings interest you or they're not.

(08:26):
And I always like the biomedicaltopics.
So when I was choosing some subjects, I don't know, in high
school in Poland you can choose the direction if you are more in
humanities or mathematics or maybe biology.
So I just was more in the biology direction.
So don't know why. Did you have to right?
This is all. Here's another perfect point you

(08:49):
just edified. We don't have to know.
All we have to do is sense. We can't think our way through a
system built on vibration. We have to sense our way through
it, and this comes through our intuition.
Yes, I think there is a mixture of reasoning and intuition.
You are right. Yes, and I always follow this

(09:11):
biomedical direction. Also, when I choose the
university and when I choose thestudies, I I actually took part
in many projects in different fields because I was always
interested. Yeah, you were all over Europe
in your post doc studies, right?Yes, but I realized that the
most interesting part is the human brain.
So that's why I decided to focuson this, my biggest effort.

(09:35):
So that what? Do you find fascinating about
the human brain since you brought that up?
I don't know. I just say when I look at the
human body and I think what could I study?
I think brain is the most interesting because it explains
somehow our behavior and how we learn and also how we control
ourselves and how we reason. So I don't know, it was just

(09:57):
some more interesting than cardiology, for example, or any
other body. It's just a, it's just a
feeling. I got a very good advice
actually, when I was looking fora PhD project, someone advised
me actually to this just to think what could be the most
interesting. Because at the end when you work
actually on the project, it doesn't matter so much the topic
because it's much more importantwhich kind of people you work

(10:20):
on. When you do biomedical research,
it doesn't matter so much if it's brain or many other stuff,
but on the high level, brain is the most interesting.
So, so I chose that direction and I don't regret because
actually later when I left academia, this brain studies led
me also to work on artificial intelligence because AI is also

(10:44):
is also kind of in some way inspired by a human brain.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
So you took off your academic hat and put on the
Entrepreneurial 1. Yes.
What was that experience like tobe able to see something that
you felt like, OK, I think I cando this, and then put your

(11:08):
attention, intention and interactions toward that?
I think it's just more trial anderror.
So you don't maybe I don't know.I when I was thinking.
Failing forward. Yes, I think it's just more
action. So especially when you leave
academia, when you start to workin the real world, it's much
more action than thinking. So you just do stuff.

(11:30):
And then and I think by trial and error and some networking, I
was searching for my way, for myway so of doing things so.
Looking back at that, I I would like to present another query.
Do you see the bread crumbs thatwere placed in front of you to

(11:51):
lead you now to the place that you're at?
Yeah, I know it's hard to see when you're in process.
And this is part of the discovery of how to engage flow
in our lives. And we don't often see that in
process until afterwards when welook back and go, oh, I see that
now. Right.
So what do you see from that in your own journey?

(12:16):
I think it's just that people perceive the life in the
different way. So how I see this is just I try
different things and you know, Ieither like it or not.
So I think for me it's more, more important just to try and
this trial and error because youcannot really, you cannot really
know whether you like something or not until you try this.

(12:39):
So I would say it was more trialand error and a lot of
networking. And at least at the moment when
I transitioned from academia to industry, I was in London.
So that was really perfect placebecause I had the chance to meet
a lot of people who inspired me.Sure, but it's mostly a trial
error I would say. So that inspiration, though,
this is where I want to go because I think it's relevant

(13:01):
and I, I think it, it your life really is an example of that.
The inspiration through that network and, and looking at what
we were talking about earlier from, you know, vibrational
standpoint, we know physics has proven that it's all vibration,
right? And so the harmonics from that,

(13:21):
the life paths, the direction, the people that come into our
lives to nudge us along that way.
It's still up to us to make the choices and experiment with
those things. However, when we are putting our
attention, intention, and interaction toward at least a

(13:42):
larger goal of exploration in the field, right, then the
others that are able to help us along the way appear to us along
the way. Whether we recognize the
significance of that interactionfrom a larger perspective or
not, it's still the direct experience of it, right?

(14:03):
So you still have to dive in andcheck it out and explore and,
and you don't always think aboutthose things in process.
But from a additional perspective, there's a bridge,
right? There's a bridge of inner and
outer activity that's taking place from the intention that
you put forth and the answer from the outer world to support

(14:25):
it. Yes you are.
It's true. You have to create your
opportunities, otherwise nothinghappens for sure.
Very true. Now the brain, body, mind
relationship, have you gone intothose areas to, to look, you
know, because the, the electrophysiology is one thing,

(14:49):
right. But you know, there's A, and
there's a, a number of experts, I guess around the world that
are saying, you know, the, the mind is much more than the
brain, that it's non local in a lot of things.
Now, do you find that there are any correlations between that

(15:10):
and the emerging biological neural networks that you're
creating? Yes, I actually of course, this
is philosophical topics. So I of course, I leave the
verdict to philosophers, but I definitely.
Philosophy, you know, it used tobe called science.
Science used to be called philosophy.
So here we are, bridging again. Yes.

(15:34):
But yes, I definitely think that, you know, mind is more
just than brain and cells. So what we try to do in the lab,
we try to build a final spark because that's what I wanted to
discuss. At Final Spark, we try to use
the building blocks of the brainwhich are leaving neurons to

(15:56):
build a computer. So very efficient, living
computer efficient because we know that neurons are 1,000,000
times more energy efficient thandigital hardware.
But of course, it's not trying to recreate humans.
Sometimes they are funny pictures of our work on social
media because people have imagination and but we don't try

(16:19):
to build a human brain or we don't try to recreate
Frankenstein or as some people say, it's more just a using
it's. Anthropic, right?
It's life friendly. And, and I, it seems to me that
from what I've experienced in all the different arrays of AI
platforms, they're all anthropic, they're all human
friendly, they're all emotionally intelligent.

(16:43):
And I know that it seems for some that, Oh no, you know, they
can't have emotions and things like that.
Well, you know, we talked about science and equations and being
able to program and understand and, you know, go into the
depths of that those algorithms to produce the reflections in a

(17:03):
human like way, because it's humans that have put it in it,
right? It, it's more of a aggregated
human consciousness as opposed to an artificial one because of
all the information that's been input to the networks.
Do you see the the the bridge between the biological neural

(17:24):
networks and the artificial neural networks providing kind
of a a new way to experience reality where there's a better
understanding of the quantum field or the dimensional
expressions like with quantum computing had a lot of questions

(17:48):
in that. No, actually we are much more
down to earth honestly and we just try to build the computer
which is very energy efficient, but we don't want to make a
difference for the end user. So as today you use artificial
intelligence, you for example, use ChatGPT, which cost a lot of
energy because it's very digital.

(18:10):
LLMS are very energy consuming. But we would like to be able to
provide the same experience for the user.
Of course, there are, you know, people who try to study
different stuff on on the neurons, but we try to program
them only. So we would like to sorry.
There's there's two different sources of power that computers

(18:33):
operate on on electricity, whichwe produce where the neural
network may not. No, a neural network is using
well currently actually we also send them electrical signals.
So it's kind of maybe not. Well, you can say it's the same,
but it cost much less. So it's more paiso currents

(18:53):
rather than full force. No, we send them current on the
electrodes. So this is basically the flow of
electrons, which is actually thesame kind of which happens on
the logic gates, but OK, it's just the same energy.
And how we do this. So we have living cells in vitro

(19:13):
in the dish and we put them on the electrodes because we would
like to be able to send them electrical signals and also to
measure the response. So of course, the programming of
living computers will be totallydifferent than programming on of
digital computers because neurons are processing
information via chemical or electrical signals.

(19:38):
So it works differently and it'svery energy efficient.
So that's what we try to do. But at the end, the end user
shouldn't see the difference because it's just the processor
which will change. And the difference will be in
the price of using different models, different AI models,
because it will be so much cheaper to use them because they

(20:01):
will use less energy. And more environmentally
friendly, too. Yes, absolutely.
So that will be more environmentenvironmentally friendly,
absolutely. Because today actually it's
increasing problem that AI is using exponentially growing
amount of energy. So, so there is a lot of effort

(20:23):
in scientific community. People are thinking how to
improve hardware, how to improvesoftware, what to do to make AI
to use less energy. And our solution is actually
very extreme because that will be just one million time less
energy. That's a huge difference.
So that hopefully I will be moreaccessible because, OK, today is

(20:46):
not a problem, but we can expectthat in 10 years and maybe even
in five years this I can become a little bit too expensive
because it needs so much energy to run.
Well, it's interesting how the development of the brain cells
in vitro, right? These are actual human brain

(21:08):
cells, right, that have been replicated.
This alone is a huge advance in science, and I understand that
it has been going on for a few years.
Yet there's this question of OK,now how do these neural networks

(21:29):
tie into us? Is there a, I would think that
then of course my mind's kind ofout there.
Is there a bleed over from one to the other?
Is there because of the biochemical activity, right,
which we are? Is there a a potential for, I

(21:53):
call it bleed over for some kindof integration, whether we know
it or not with these networks that could possibly take us to
even more discoveries? I'm not sure what do you mean by
this build over. OK, so the so you've got

(22:14):
biocomputers, right, that are artificially generated brain
cells, right? They're not artificial brain
cells, they're actual human brain cells, right, That operate
on a biochemical energy source. Yes.
We do the same. Our brains, our Physiology

(22:36):
operates the same way. So with these two operating the
same way, is it possible that atsome point they will have at
least a partial symbiosis? Symbiosis with what?

(22:59):
Each other. You mean neurons between each
other? Right.
So you got, it's like quantum entanglement, right?
You've got the brain cells in, in an artificial environment.
You got the brain cells in a natural environment, but which
is really artificial and which is natural if we, you know, are
experiencing reality, it's all natural, right?

(23:23):
How do, And maybe this is a question that that's just not
ready to be answered yet. And I get that.
It would just, to me, it makes sense in that possibility that
there is a potential integrationof those two.
And it may, you know, we're already talking about the brain

(23:44):
mind or the brain machine interaction and their implants
and all kinds of things like that.
I'm, I'm going to step above that to where there is an energy
exchange. And this is talked about in a
lot of the studies on consciousness and, and quantum

(24:05):
fields and things of that nature.
Eventually it, it would seem these are going to come
together. It's a question of how do you
see that potential from your perspective?
I have to say that I have no idea about quantum physics
because that's really far away from my expertise.

(24:27):
I can only say that, you know, no matter if we use living
neurons or silicon chips, I think our neurons are definitely
interacting all the time with AI, with technology, and it's
kind of becomes extension of us.That's actually what I heard
from philosophers. That's interesting that we as a

(24:48):
humans, they we also also changebecause by using smartphones we
are not the same people as we were without.
So I would say that we always have interaction between our
neurons and the technology. And if there will be biological
brain or other computer, it doesn't really matter because we

(25:09):
always interact with the technology.
So it's changing us in and as I said, actually we want, we have
this dream that we don't want tomake a difference for the end
user. So you will just use AI as you
would use any other, you know, if it's on silicone or on living
neurons and that doesn't matter.But we want to change the cost

(25:32):
of AI so. So we can think better for less
cost. Yes, absolutely.
And that's very important because we use more and more AI
and the models are more and morecomplicated.
So that means more energy is used.
So it's very important to think how to how to minimize, how to
lower this energy usage. Sure.

(25:52):
Well, and that just makes sense because we've grown this through
the industrial age and now the technology age, this consumerist
society, right? And we've just made some poor
choices along the way. So now we're trying to figure
out, OK, how can we reverse these things, become more

(26:16):
economically friendly as well asenvironmentally friendly, kind
of switching the the agenda fromprofit over people and planet to
people and planet over profit, which is what I hear the
direction. I hear you going now in this
direction. What do you think the the

(26:37):
future, what would you like to see in the future of the work
that you do when you first began, I guess 2 parts of the
question, when you first began, where did it?
Where did you hope it would takeyou?
And now that you're further on the journey, where do you see it
going? So when I become begin, what did

(27:02):
become a begin started started to work with final spark or
started neuroscience? When you first began your
direction in in bioscience and and what you dreamt perhaps that
you could do with it. So actually, I think when I

(27:22):
started in science, I enjoy doing science, and that was just
actually for the sake of doing science.
That was just a pleasure. And I know some people want to
be scientists because they want to find a cure for a cancer.
That was not me. I just enjoy doing science, just
enjoy the process. And actually it's always like

(27:42):
that in every project, which I do.
I just enjoy the process and I do it because I I like it.
And you know, I think in the long term projects is may be
good to think that way because it it, it takes very long time
to get any results. So it's better you like it well.
Any time that I totally agree with you, you know, and you, you

(28:02):
hit on another key point. Everything is a process.
Yes. Everything you know, whether
it's dreams come true or, or whatever, you know, I had a 28
year dream come true from when Ifirst did my my first show in
1990, hoping that I would be worthy of an interview with one

(28:23):
of my icons, Jeffrey Mischlev and and Bill Moyers.
And in 28 years later it happens.
So that was all the process thatI went through with all the
different nooks and crannies andspirals and tumbles and falling
forward and failing forward and all those kinds of things in
this process that you've enjoyed.

(28:44):
Do you find that in that processthere is a certain sense of flow
that's beyond anything that you experience outside of that
process? I don't know actually, I never
had such a a consideration, but I definitely have a flow because

(29:04):
many times when I work I actually forget the time
passing. Right, that's exactly what I'm
talking about. You know Mikhail?
I definitely have the flow open.Right, Mihaili Shiksen Mihail,
he said, wrote a book called TheFlow, The Psychology of Optimal
Experience and when. You actually I have this book.
I haven't read it yet, but it's on.

(29:24):
My, oh you, you ought to. It's phenomenal.
Too bad he's gone now. What he does express, though, is
the time disappears. He he talks about a like a jazz
quartet that's jamming, right. I can relate to that 'cause I'm
I'm a drummer and I love to playimprov.
And so when you get into those conversations with other

(29:46):
musicians, time just disappears,ego disappears.
You just become one with your instrument 1st and then one with
the rest of the group. And it's so interesting to
experience that I think I would surmise a guess that in the

(30:08):
processes that you are in with Co workers, there's that same
sense. Yes.
I think it's always when you like something and when you are
on the right level, when it's not too difficult, not too hard
and you know, and you have to like it.
Right. Well, there's the challenge
there of always being totally present and available, right?

(30:33):
Yes. That's a place that how do you
get there? How did you find that
recognition or self-awareness and to be able to repeat the
process? I think that when you follow
what you really like to do and you don't do things which you

(30:56):
don't like to do, then you get this.
You just have to. I know it sounds a bit cliche,
but you just have to. You do what you love and the
money you'll follow, is the old phrase.
No, no, no, no, no. But I wanted to say that if you
enjoy what you do, then you get the flow.
So you have to well. It's the same thing and based on
money in in the world is being asign of success and and of

(31:19):
accomplishment, but it's not really all about that.
It's the experience that we havethat edifies ourselves and
others in that collaborative process.
Yes, absolutely. How does that filter out or do
you think it can filter out intothe world around you or us or

(31:45):
others, You know, because we've got this hyper focused
environment that then has its own momentum.
Well, how does that momentum ripple out into the outer world?
And one of those examples, of course, would be the advancement
of your entrepreneurial endeavour.

(32:08):
How else might that that's on a more of a demonstrably physical,
you know, people, places and things level.
Where do you think that might goon a philosophical level and and
how the thoughts and the understanding of process begins
to ripple through society? Do you think that's possible?

(32:30):
I have no idea. I'm not sure I understood what
you mean. From the point of consciousness,
let me see if I can reframe the question.
So from the the understanding consciousness being non local,
right? And that we're tapped into it
and that like a butterfly, our thoughts affect it.

(32:51):
So do you see the possibility asthis greater focus on in
attention, attention, intention and interactions will ripple
through the environment around you and have the subtle changes
that move us all to a new level?Maybe even a greater, or I don't

(33:18):
want to say greater, but a new living awareness of how
interconnected things can be. To be honest, I have no clue,
but I'm sure that your internal attitude is affecting the
environment for sure. Maybe I would say this a bit
simple. OK, you said the same thing.
Right. But I am definitely and actually
that's proven also in the brain science, because, you know,

(33:41):
there's a lot of research about this as some psychology
actually, because psychology is maybe more focusing on behavior.
But definitely, yes, our our attitudes will are affecting how
we interact with the environment.
Definitely. There are many, many things to
prove. Absolutely.
And whatever perspective we havedetermines our perception.

(34:03):
Oh, yes, absolutely. Because brain is filtering
information because we are neverable actually to process
everything what comes to our to us.
So we always filter And then if depending and this filter
depends on how you think. So for example, if you want to
see only negative things, you will see that.
So there is a lot of also matterof interpretation.

(34:24):
But yeah, absolutely, that's important, the filtering, yes,
how you, which things you chooseto see and what you choose what
you want to see do. You see, this is really one
would it seems in the greater social milieu that this kind of
awareness isn't all that presentyet.

(34:48):
Would you agree? Well, I think it's just matter
of education union, you know, where like for example,
knowledge about psychology is improving over the last, you
know, 50 or 100 years. And I think in the past, people
just didn't know this. But I have impression that the,
you know, we just collectively learn more.

(35:09):
So I'm sure that maybe in 50 years, more people know about
psychology than today. So I personally believe that
education is spreading and everynew generation knows more.
Absolutely. You know, and we've got, to my
understanding, 5 basic relationships that education
need to cover, needs to cover body, mind, spirit, planet,

(35:34):
cosmos. Those are all relationships that
we have. Yes, we should learn about
everything, definitely. Why do you think we're not?
Well, I don't know. I think it depends on the
education system and depends howwe search for information.
I wasn't necessarily looking forblame, that this was something
that just OK. We we, we need to understand

(35:56):
where things are first without pointing fingers, right?
You can't get anywhere if you'repointing fingers because you're
always going to be right. It just doesn't work.
How do we embrace? How do we hug this new living
awareness and help it to emerge?I don't know.

(36:19):
If you did, what might it look like?
OK, so I know you're a scientist, but I know you got a
tremendous imagination as well. What might it look like if this
would be happening if those educational relationships began
to filter through and and kids actually got the early education

(36:44):
that they need instead of the programming that we've been
offering? Well, I think it's very
idealistic. I think it's not possible.
I think the society will always be like that, that there will be
most people following the mainstream and there will be
few, you know, people who will look outside.
So I, I, I I think this. When I hear not not possible, I

(37:04):
always want to counter that withwhat if it was, what would it
look like? This is all how you believe.
I don't know. Like everyone would be more like
us. I don't know.
I don't know. Would it be like us or would
they be more like them? Right, If if we have this
intrinsic natural being, right? Like you found your bread crumbs

(37:30):
through life because you had an intuition that this was the
direction you wanted to go and you followed that.
So what if we were to shift our ways of educating our youth to
do just that? You know, I found this is one of
the things that in my wife Luba is it was raised in Leningrad in

(37:55):
the USSR. She left there in 1989, right
before Russia dissolved or the USSR devolved, dissolved into
Russia. Their training was as we've been
getting to know each other earlyon, we, I'm an educator.
I taught high school for a number of years and was raised

(38:16):
by an educator. So I'm really curious as to how
we educate ourselves. And I saw in in our school
system how the exact opposite ofwhat we're talking about was
happening. You know, read, study, memorize,
regurgitate, score. That's it, right?
That's what everything's based on.
It's not based on learning. How do you learn?

(38:36):
How can we support that learning?
So in Russia or in the USSR, they would basically do an
assessment on the kids and, and maybe some were special, maybe
some weren't. And she obviously had a step up
at 5 years old. They gave, they analyzed her
skill set and said, OK, you can either go into piano or

(39:00):
gymnastics. And, you know, she was old
enough then to realize that if I'll go into gymnastics, my
body's going to not not work after I'm 20.
So she chose piano and was trained at one of the world's
premier music colleges at the Sorensky College.
Now, the way that they structuretheir upbringing and educational

(39:24):
system is they put them in, theyassess, they find the passion,
they send them down that strand,and they support it the entire
weight with the rest of a robusteducation as well.
And so at the end, they come outfar more adept and able to
perform at whatever level than we are in America.

(39:48):
And I find that, you know, I'd written to the model school
after I taught school for a while.
I wrote a business plan for one of my degrees, and that was
focused on holistic education. Which are those five
relationships I spoke of? And it seemed like the Russians
were already there. It's just not out in the open.
So maybe that's part of why we have issues with them is, you

(40:11):
know, we're envious. However, that doesn't matter.
How can we apply this collectiveinformation and nurture our
world into a place where it can be?
Because we've got all the tools,we've got the resources, we've
got the networks. How do you see that taking

(40:34):
place? Or do you see that taking place
in the work that you're doing 'cause I would think you're at
the forefront of that because ofhow AI is potentially
integrating all these systems now?
Well, I think that with the development of AI, we actually
see more decentralization of education.

(40:54):
People will likely more learn from the Internet, which is
already happening. And there are good and bad
things about this. But yes, I think it will be that
the education will change totally.
Like in 50 years you it will be totally different because we can
already see now universities, traditional universities are

(41:14):
becoming less important. And maybe it's more important to
learn the latest skills from theInternet because technology is
progressing also so fast. But I mean, especially if you're
on the science and technology, then actually the progress is so
quick that you learn from the papers which are recently
published and not from the textbooks.

(41:35):
So I would say that a lot of education will go will go to the
Internet. And also because the world is
changing, so we don't have any more jobs for life and we might
change the job totally few timesin your life.
That also means we have to learnsomething and then most likely

(41:56):
from the Internet will be the cheapest and the most easy.
So I see that I. Mean, however, that that
presents another problem, right?Like in America there there's
all kinds of discussions about we don't have any skilled labor,
right to build the things and towork on the infrastructure that

(42:16):
is in dire straits here that, you know that's old, it needs
refurbishing. So how do we counter that?
Do we how would AI counter that?Would they be able to teach the
skills or could a person learn the skills to be a blue collar

(42:39):
worker too? Or would that be something that
still is confined to trade schools?
I don't know. I'm just I'm asking a question
as to what you think that might look like.
Blue collar is physical job or intellectual, I forgot.
Blue collar is physical. Physical.
Oh yeah, no, well, that's actually no.

(42:59):
AI is much more dominant in intellectual work.
And I think there are a lot of practical things, especially
manual, which of course robots are very have hard time.
It's actually very difficult to make robots interact effectively
with the world. Physical world it's much easier
with the data and the abstract things so no no, I, I think that

(43:24):
when it comes to physical work I, I don't see this I think it's
much more about intellectual training where I place a role
and physical will take still a long time because we first have
to create robots which can actually do any job and there
are a lot of things we still cannot do even like cleaning

(43:44):
house or making coffee in your kitchen is deep for a robot I'm.
Talking on the much larger scale, you know, I one of my
hats was facilitating partneringworkshops for building road
bridge construction projects. These are multi $1,000,000.
You know, railways, waterways, bridges, roadways, those kind of

(44:08):
workers. Yes.
No, I think the physical job I wouldn't see and maybe I haven't
seen everything, but I don't imagine that I will be helpful,
at least not today for physical stuff, although this, yeah, but
no, no, no, I wouldn't say no. I don't see any.
Yeah, 'cause most of that is physical hands on, right?

(44:28):
You've got to experience it withmaybe there still is a way for
AI to say, OK, yeah, here's the process.
You know, here's step 123 and and now you got to go out and
apply this, which is kind of what we do in the classroom,
right? We hopefully learn information
and then go out into the real world and apply what we just
learned. Yes, everything.

(44:49):
What you have to remember in your head, I can teach you, yes.
But if there is any movement or,I don't know, moving physical
stuff in the real environment, then it's difficult.
But you're not. Ready for the robots yet?
I don't think, although that would eliminate a lot of safety
factors because a lot of these projects are dangerous and

(45:09):
people lose their lives for safety issues, you know, that
could have been averted. And that's part of what the the
partnering workshops are about is making sure the safety's
first and you know what you're going to do when issues take
place now. Yes, absolutely.
How do you see this amalgamationof technology and brain science

(45:33):
and and philosophy affecting youand those around you?
Is it? What's it done to cause you to
think differently? Well, I think technology is
changing our life because a lot of our work is automated.

(45:53):
And also as we said before, we can learn quicker.
You know, with the Internet, we are very connected.
You can talk with anyone from everywhere if they're if you are
both connected to the Internet. So I think that AI is changing
our life a lot, and then nobody really knows how next five years

(46:14):
will look like. Oh yeah, the last five, the way
things have changed, you know the I have a 91 year old
mother-in-law, the things that granted she's not aware now
she's got frontal lobe dementia.However, I can imagine those
that are in their 90s now that all the changes that they've had

(46:37):
experienced and the rapid, especially lately, the rapid
succession of those changes, howdo we deal with that?
Because the world right now, we've just went through COVID,
we had a restructuring of the workforce.
Now we've got AI that's further challenging the workforce.

(46:59):
What do you see as the potentialgood that will come out of this?
I think that every change is giving new opportunities.
I actually can recommend highly the book of Nasim Taleb which is
called Anti Fragile and this book is actually showing a

(47:20):
philosophical concept about the IT can be about people or
organizations. What was the?
Name of the author again? Anti Fragile.
Nasim Taleb I I can give you thelink and this actually shows you
some kind of like idea what to do to be anti fragile, which
means that changing environment is actually beneficial for you,

(47:43):
not harmful. That's the thing that's
consistent, right? This change.
Yes, yes, of course. And I think in the new work
which we have now, yes, absolutely everything is
changing and for some people it can be advantage, for some
people be disadvantage. So it depends, sorry.
So depends on your, let's say, how you prepare yourself.

(48:08):
Do you have a sense that it's learning to live in paradox?
Why paradox? Because there are things that we
desire, things we don't desire, and they're happening in the
world simultaneously. And to focus attention on either
end of the spectrum causes us tolose focus in whatever we're

(48:32):
doing. So the, the ability to live in
that paradox may also be part ofof what this new living
awareness, if you will, that we're going into as a result of
the change and the change of course being constant.
It's we've been taught to be afraid of the unknown.

(48:54):
Now we're learning to embrace it.
Yes, I think, I think we're alsoeducation and science gives you
this attitude of not being afraid of the change, right?
Yeah, period. It's like the the thing period
is fear itself. You know how what do we want to
generate? I heard a long time ago it's

(49:16):
false evidence appearing real. So looking at it from that
perspective, it's a door, right?How do we open that door and,
you know, essentially get off the planet like this where I'm
sitting here, I'm sitting on themoon or it looks like it, right?
So how do we go to the moon and look at Earth and say, oh, what

(49:39):
can we do? We see it as a completely
different way. I had a conversation with Doctor
Edgar Mitchell, who's the 6th man on the moon.
And his revelation of that because of that experience
brought him back here. And he started the Noetic
Institute for Noetic Sciences, which was about studying
consciousness, how we see things, how we work.

(50:04):
In that perspective, do you think we can step back from the
visceral experience enough to make better choices as to how to
have our experience? Yes, definitely.
I don't remember who said this, that healthy, you know, like

(50:27):
sane person is able to stop and think and reflect.
I think some famous writer said this that there.
There's a pause button. Stop and reflect.
And it's very important sometimes to just stop and
reflect, yes. Well, it truncates all the not
all aggressive actions, right? The anger, resentment, it, the

(50:48):
misunderstandings, because a lotof times we hear something from
another and like you and I, right we, we have a language
barrier. English is not your first
language and Polish is certainlynot mine.
And yet we're able to have this relatively cogent conversation

(51:09):
now when we're in challenging environments, even speaking the
same language, we're triggered by certain words and phrases
based on our past experience. That pause button we were just
talking about allows us to be inthe moment without the past
experience, or at least to acknowledge that it's there, but

(51:32):
not be controlled by it in any kind of reactionary way.
Do you see that in the world of science, in those you deal with?
Do you see that as a regular behavior, or do you find that
there's still some misunderstandings in the

(51:54):
terminology? Or are you so consistent in your
terminology that you understand each other to that level where
it's just all flow? Well, I think technical language
is usually minimum mini minimal,so that's actually makes
everything easier. And then the.
You just don't talk much, right?No, we're just not using not

(52:15):
necessary words. And it's usually very technical.
But in the emerging fields, whenyou have some new topics, there
is always some kind of inconsistency.
When you have something new, there is always more than one
name. But I think it's a normal thing,
like actually for bio computing,what we do final spark, because
we build computers from living neurons and we call this bio
computing. But you can also see wetware

(52:38):
computing. You can see also organoid
intelligence. So there are many ways because
it's not yet established field, but I think it's normal.
But most of the time I would sayactually the communication
between the researchers is amazing.
I've been always working in, in international environment and
it's amazing, like no matter where you come from, but

(53:00):
scientists understand each otherquite well because we speak the
same language. And also it's very technical.
So it's not, you know, it's, it's very easy actually.
That's always surprising how, how easy it is to communicate
even if someone is totally different culture or anything.
But we are very similar. Well, you've done the the work.

(53:20):
It would seem that you've done the work to understand the
platform that you're operating in first of all.
Yes. Everyone of you, and it's the
same platform because it's science.
Yes, absolutely. And it's, it's really, it's
amazing, yes, but it's, it's easy to communicate with other
scientists. In that ease of communication,

(53:43):
it's another weird question. You know we got 70,000 thoughts
a day, right? According to the Neuro geeks is
do you find that those thoughts actually lessen with the extreme
focus that you have and the few words that you use as a result,
or is your mind still super active in that process?

(54:06):
No, I think most of the researchers have active mind and
they think fast. That's what I've seen.
And they are not always focused.Actually, when you are, you
know, when you are a researcher,it's funny because you usually
have a lot of freedom. You know, like it's different
than office job when everyone iswatching you, whether you work

(54:26):
or not from 9:00 to 5:00. But in at universities, you
usually get a lot of freedom. It's just your project.
You have to make it work. Actually, I've seen people are
often not focused because nobodyactually teaches you when you're
at academia to be efficient, because efficiency is a problem
of industry. You have to cut the cost.

(54:47):
So you have employees, you have to make sure they really work.
But in academia is different. You can.
Academic is more experimental too, right?
So yeah, but it's also normal thing that you read newspaper
during working hours. Nobody would be surprised with
that because it's your problem if later you have to stay
longer. But actually it's very often
when you're a scientist you're not very organized.

(55:07):
So actually I think I learned tobe organized when I started to
work into this thing. I started to have agenda, and
it's totally different now. I have calendar, I have
everything on time. But when I was in academia, I
never had agenda. I never had stuff like that so.
Sure, sure, sure. Yeah.
But we are not efficient, I can tell you and.

(55:28):
Well, you have to be, you know, whenever you're in the process
of creating your dreams in orderfor them to come through,
there's structure, there's process beyond the fine details
that you know, you think are there.
You know, when you launch into aa entrepreneurial endeavour,

(55:50):
there are so many different, youknow, Tom Campbell would call
them virtual realities. So many direct links that you
have with a specific thing that are multitudes of those specific
things that you have to be awareof and organize in a fashion so
that everything works. Yes, that's a tremendously

(56:14):
disciplined mind. But definitely have more focus
in industry, absolutely, and more focus and discipline.
And that affects the rest of your life too, right?
Because what we do anywhere, we do everywhere.
Yeah, but you work differently than you have fun.
Oh, sure. Well, I'm talking about patterns

(56:36):
that, you know, the internal patterns that we have and the
way we behave. We do the same things
everywhere, no matter the environment we're in, because
that's just how we're built. You know, they used to say, you
know, leave work at work and, you know, home at home.
Well, you're one person. How the heck can you do that,
right? Actually I work from home, so
you know for me everything is now connected.

(57:00):
Yes, yes, you like connected. And there there's the bridge.
Right? Perfect.
Another perfect example of how things have changed.
Yes, absolutely. And become more holistic, right?
We we bringing these experiencesinto a better environment

(57:21):
because we're we feel more nurtured by it.
I think it would you agree with that?
You mean what the holistic approach?
Yeah, we're more nurtured in in comfortable, supportive, non
destructive environments or having to, you know, change

(57:45):
ourselves from the office to home.
Yes, I think it depends on the people, but for me working from
home is perfect. I love to work on my own
schedule, but I know it actuallyfrom talking to friends that not
everyone actually likes to work from home because some people
feel motivated when they go to the office, although I don't
know many of them. Well, we all are unique and we

(58:07):
have our different presence. You know this one of the things
about the DISC assessments you're probably familiar with
for. Oh yes.
Personality styles, you know, yes, it's.
I'm a direct direct part. Oh, you're you're AD OK.
Absolutely. Yes.
Do you remember what your your overall?

(58:28):
Yes. What was your natural?
Oh I don't remember but I remember I was D, but the rest I
don't remember so. They reveal a natural and
adaptive. Yes, yes, yes, actually it's
funny because at that, but it was different time maybe you
know, but I was mixture of Dior and some other stuff like

(58:48):
inspire this one who likes to talk a lot.
There is another part maybe inspiring, I don't remember,
maybe something like that. And I remember that actually at
that time I was like a behavior like the disk, but naturally I
was a mixture. Makes sense for your
personality. It actually is better because

(59:10):
you are. Maybe you can be a bit nicer if
you are a little bit the other one.
Well, they. Don't actually they, you know,
they, they straightforward give me the facts.
I don't care about anything else.
Yeah, but that's not done. Yes.
So actually it's good to combinethis with some other.
Sure, sure. The same way my Natural was
promoting Persuader and my Adaptive was Conductor.

(59:35):
OK, OK. So Heidi, right, with the
mixture of of being able to workwith people, right, having more
empathy with them. My point about the disks,
though, was that a lot of times they're used for communication
and problem solving preferences,right, to determine what those

(59:58):
are. Cause a lot of times, you know,
we, we know ourselves a little bit and how we prefer being
dealt with. But to be asked straightforward,
you know, what's your preferences?
How do you communicate You know what's your problem solving
preferences? How and with the disk.
Then you can understand the person's challenges and meet

(01:00:18):
them where they are as opposed to trying to meet them where you
are. But I think it's very difficult,
I think. You.
Know I know because I did some sales training at that time and
they yeah yeah it was about the reading older people disk and
trying to adjust I think it for me it's impossible but you know

(01:00:41):
I never I got. Built.
For it again, right? I happened to be built for it.
I, I was a distributor for Target Training International,
which is one of the first peopleto introduce discs.
And this was 25 years ago. So that kind of understanding,

(01:01:01):
though, led me to realize that we're all unique.
We all have different things. Hitting that pause button that
you mentioned earlier to be ableto fully be present, ask
questions and attempt to understand the other first
because what you say to them hasto be in their language or the

(01:01:23):
way that they're thinking, otherwise you're not going to
connect. Yes, and actually there is more
recent book about the problem which is called.
It's very nice book. It's called called Surrounded by
Idiots and this is also about this actually because it
explains why we think. Surrounded by idiots.
Right. Yeah, No, no, because it
explains why you might think that other people are stupid

(01:01:45):
because they are so different. Because people.
Because they don't think we do. They are sometimes so different
that you wonder if they are sane, but it's just different
personalities so you have to getused to.
That right and, and this is how,you know, unbeknownst we think
and, and we get this, I think from our childhood too.
We think that others are just like us.

(01:02:07):
Yes, they got a body, 2 arms, 2 legs, right?
Yes, they're not Everybody is unique.
So what does that teach us? We need to take a pause and
figure out who they are, which will actually let us know about
more about who we are too. Yes, absolutely.

(01:02:28):
In the development of the next phase that you are proceeding
into and and that other scientists like you no doubt and
and others that are in processing and processes and and
developing new things. What kind of success or or what

(01:02:49):
kind of advice or guidance can you offer towards someone that
may be finding a little frustration or concern about
their direction? I think if you are not happy
with your direction then you have to change it for sure.
Otherwise, it's a waste of time and I think it's good to try and

(01:03:14):
not to be afraid because it's like someone once said, it's
like you go to the restaurant and you order food and if you
don't like it, it's not a problem.
You can order another one. So in the same life, if you
don't like something and then you can always change it.
But also of course, because somepeople will say they have no
choice, it's also important to live in such a way that you have

(01:03:35):
choice actually, because when you make a decision, it's always
good to think if you stay in thecorner or do you, you have
flexibility later. So I think every time you do
something is good to, let's say,care about this, that you have
freedom of movement. Otherwise you have no choice,
and that's a problem. So I think it's good to to to

(01:03:58):
try to live in such a way that you always have choice and if
things don't work, you can always try another thing.
It's much. Not about being easy, though you
still got some hard lessons to learn sometimes if you're.
Absolutely. Which is, you know, that's
another aspect of this. But yeah, I would agree with you
that change if if things aren't working, if you recognize that,

(01:04:20):
oh, I need to grow through this,that's a different story, yes.
As opposed to, you know, I'm just not feeling my direction
here. That's a different perspective
as well. Absolutely.
But it's also important not to put yourself in the corner so

(01:04:41):
that you can always have a choice.
That's very important, right? Otherwise, if you don't have
choice, then you just have to accept whatever you know so.
Well, sometimes it's good to acquiesce, you know, excuse me,
because there's that other element, that non local moment,

(01:05:04):
the element that we were talkingabout earlier, right?
There's a direction, there's a resonance, there's a field that
really only wants the best for us because that's how it's
designed. Even Tom Gamble says with all
his physics and science and equations, and you know, he says
there's this consciousness system and it's direction is

(01:05:29):
toward lower, lower entropy. Well, and then he says, and that
means it's towards love. That is a phenomenal thing for a
mathematician, a scientist to say that here's this leap from a
consciousness system based on these parameters to, oh, it's

(01:05:52):
geared towards love. And I've said for years that
really what we want, our core desire is to love and be loved.
We don't bring that into the workplace or our lives as much
as possible because, as you said, there's a lot of changes

(01:06:12):
taking place and and a lot of times those changes will elicit
a sense of anxiety instead of anticipation.
How do you handle that in your world?
I don't know. I think anxiety is a
psychological problem and there are actually today some tools

(01:06:34):
how to deal with this. Sure.
So yeah, I think science have a lot of solutions for anxiety.
Do you have anxious movements? Also that hard work is the best
solution for anxiety, you know? Absolutely.
Well, it you're not thinking, then you're doing right.
You're active in it. Because one is, you know, you
did everything what you could, and another thing is that if you

(01:06:58):
work hard then you have less things to worry about and to be
anxious. Sure.
The best if. There was something.
Is gets get down to some work? Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, sometimes I use the the
word wisdom in two different spellings.
VISDOM and WISDU, MB. Yes.

(01:07:24):
So the dumb part of it is when we don't know something and we
simply need to acquiesce to the moment with the curiosity of how
we can perform in it to our bestin this.
We're coming up on close of our time, but I really appreciate

(01:07:48):
this conversation. It's been wonderful and I hope
it's inspired you as well in thefuture that we're creating
together, not just you and I, but collectively.
What would you see as an indicator that things are coming

(01:08:11):
together at a more organized andhigher functional level?
Well, I think that the generallywhen you look at the history of
humanity, I have impression at least my feeling is that the
quality of our life is increasing and at least I

(01:08:32):
wouldn't like to live in the past.
I prefer present and I think generally I'm on the positive
side and I see the positive things.
Actually, I read a book about this, I don't remember the
title, but it was a book actually about the statistic
that we usually think that things are getting worse, but
actually the heart statistic is showing the opposite.

(01:08:53):
I think it was fact fullness or something like that.
I can leave give you the link here.
But yeah, although some people like to say that oh, everything
is going to the worst, but actually that's not true.
Because when you compare, you know, like 50 or 100 years ago,
only the richest people didn't have this quality which everyone
has today of life. So I generally see that

(01:09:14):
everything is going in a good direction that at least how I
see this. And yeah, and I think the best
indicator, as you said, is the quality of life.
You can see around what we have today.
What can we do? You know, you don't feel pain
anymore when you go to the dentist.
This is very basic stuff where you go to the pharmacy is full
of solutions for every, every pain you might have.

(01:09:38):
So I, I generally think that this is good indicator the
quality of life for people that is getting better.
But yes, that's. I would agree.
And. In appreciation of those who are
still a bit afraid of change that the anxiety and the things
that are that come up from that.But the overall view is that

(01:10:02):
things are getting better. We're we are more connected now.
How are we going to integrate ourselves beyond the national
borders and learn how to get along and establish a peaceful
world that supports itself? You know, where we've got these
outlying areas and populations that are either starving or

(01:10:27):
living in squalor or, you know, just not having good lives right
now? Some of the indigenous tribes
are still happy with what they're doing, and they're
totally fine. They don't want to change.
We should leave them alone instead of trying to provide
them everything that we think they need.
They're not asking for it. Why do you want to give it to us

(01:10:48):
like a teenager, right? That you're trying to give
wisdom to that isn't even askingthe questions yet.
It just goes right over their head.
And yet with this capacity that we have, the distribution
systems that are in place, just not managed well.

(01:11:09):
Do you see that potential shifting with the use of AI and
the way it moves beyond any boundaries to connect people?
Actually, I would say that this connectivity and AI is rather

(01:11:31):
leading to everyone wanting the same because we see, you know,
like you have Instagram now you can compare life like people
different between different countries.
So actually I think that technology leads to this, that
everyone wants the same. So what I hear you saying is
don't fear it. Be cautious, maybe, but embrace

(01:11:54):
it, no? No, it's just that you don't
have. Yeah, it's more difficult to be
content with less, as you said that some people maybe don't
know, don't want more. But actually, because we can
compare our lives, you know, dueto the social media, I think
everyone wants the same, or at least more and more people want
the same. We all want to love and be

(01:12:15):
loved, right? Yes, and also do we?
Make it that simple. Does that sound too?
I mean, often times it's like, well, that just sounds too woo
woo, right? And yet that's really our core
desire in life. We want to love and be loved.
That that's an expression, that's a feeling, that's a sense
that we have that's beyond anything.

(01:12:37):
Well, actually psychology has when you say about the
difference between people, you know, different people want the
different things and there are some basic things which love is
important, but some people want also respect or safety.
These are also very strong things.
So actually we are not all the same, but I think also that.

(01:12:59):
Well, it wasn't saying that loveis the same for everyone again
back like with the disc, right? We all have our preferences in
the way we receive and give. It's when those find
compatibility with others that'sit, that it's really important.

(01:13:20):
Yes, absolutely. Elena, this has just been an
amazing conversation. Is there anything else that came
up while we were chatting that? My assistant come.
She jumped on my desk. My little assistant.

(01:13:41):
I'm sorry. No, I have nothing.
No, don't be sorry. I think that's a wonderful
blessing that he's. Very sweet assistant yes he's
always simply my mood so of course the last message I have
is that if anyone is interested should check our website
financepark.com if they want to know about the future of
artificial intelligence, and thank you very much for this
nice discussion and and that's it thank you so much wow you're.

(01:14:05):
Very welcome. Thank you, Elena and Namaste and
in LA Ketch and thanks for sticking with us for this
episode of One World in a New World.
And do please like, subscribe, share, visit
planetarycitizens.net and download the book.
I know you'll enjoy it. It explains things that that we
can see as far as our future is concerned and how we can all

(01:14:27):
work together better. Again, I'm Zen Benefiel, your
host. Thanks for showing up.
I'll see you next time. The.