November 18, 2025 • 23 mins
Leaving the checklist for grace.
“My work is done here,” Jesus told Kristen Hale as she hobbled to the altar at the Mormon temple’s healing service. Jesus would gently lead her out of Mormonism and heal her–-body, mind and Spirit.
In part 1, learn how Kristen grew up in a devout Mormon home, with a strict bishop father and the heavy weight of performance based love. Listen as she explains some tenets of Mormonism. See how Kristen’s zeal for Mormonism even brought her to witness to Christian friends. Glimpses of Mormonism’s incongruity began to reveal themselves after a devastating death in the family with a cold response.
Kristen’s Recommended Resources:
From Mormon to God: The Story of a Mormon Girl Turned to God's Grace
Kirsten’s website, FromMormontoGod
Helpful definitions of Mormon terms vs. Christian terms
Kristen’s book on POTS, Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome
Kristen’s Children’s books on talking to friends who are different:
Ex-Mormon Christians Facebook group
Truth in Love, how to witness to Mormons
Sean McDowell Podcast on Mormonism
Let us know what you thought of the show!
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Announcer (00:02):
Welcome to One80.
Transforming testimonies fromnext door to across the globe.
Be amazed at how God works tobring people to himself.
Share today's One80 with afriend.
It might be the best news theyhear today.
Kristen Hale (00:29):
No verse in the words that I had was giving me
any help or any truth.
And I remember one morning myhusband switched the Book of
Mormon for a Bible.
Like, kind of like here, trythis.
And those words were speakingto me.
Margaret Ereneta (00:53):
My work is done here, Jesus told Kristen
Hale as she hobbled to thealtar, walker afoot.
And her work was also done.
The never-ending cycle ofworking to please a distant God.
She would flee Mormonism andfind healing, body, mind, and
spirit.
This is your host, MargaretEreneta.
(01:16):
Welcome to Kristen's One80,part one.
Kristen Hale (01:23):
So I was born and raised in Mormonism, and my dad
was actually bishop of theMormon church for five years
while I was growing up andentering my teenage years.
It was all that I ever knew.
So the rule keeping and thedietary restrictions and the
modest clothing, it was all thisis how you worship God, is the
(01:45):
outward appearance.
I loved doing what was right.
I loved choosing the right.
That was what I was taughtwould give me happiness and
celestial glory.
It was all about the afterlifegrowing up.
And if you do this, then youwill get this.
It was very reward system.
I grew up in a family of nine.
(02:07):
My dad being the bishop, hecalled me to be the organist of
the ward.
They call that the geographicallocation of where we lived.
That is the church that youwould go to or the time that you
would be scheduled to go tochurch.
And they would call that award.
Middle school, high school, youwould find Mormon cliques, they
(02:27):
would call it.
So there would be just a groupof Mormons, and you were to be a
part of that clique to makesure you were following and
choosing the right.
And if there was somebody out ofline, if one of your friends
started cussing or drinking, youwould be expected to leave and
make sure you were stayingaround the right crowd.
So very cult tick in thechurch, but also outward.
(02:50):
So if you're going to school,you make sure that you're
involving yourself aroundMormons.
You don't date anybody who isnot Mormon.
Growing up, it was very strict.
Margaret Ereneta (03:03):
Next, Kristen describes baptism by proxy.
Listen in.
Kristen Hale (03:09):
So you're born in the ceiling and you are to
follow all the ordinances andthe rituals, which is when
you're eight, you are baptized.
When you're 12, if you're aman, you become a deacon where
you'll pass the sacrament duringchurch.
So it's very age-related.
When you're 14, you serve atthe temple and you do baptisms
(03:31):
for the dead, which issupposedly a high honor.
You have to keep yourselfworthy, worthy being Mormon
rules, following the dietaryrestrictions, no coffee, no tea,
no strong drinks, and thenwearing modest clothing.
And you have a temple interviewwith your bishop, which mine at
the time was my own dad.
(03:51):
So he would take us um into theguest room of our house.
I grew up in a lot of money.
Our house was large, thelargest on the block, three
stories, massive.
I can't explain it.
Huge mansion.
And many of the Mormons youwill recognize have mansions or
(04:12):
large, large buildings.
There's a lot of money in theMormon church.
They're actually business-wisesitting on 80 billion in stocks.
So there's a large reason whythe elders or the prophet today
is not going to divulge thathe's speaking these lies because
it's more of a business than itis anything else.
(04:33):
And I do believe in my heartthat they know these things.
Obviously, we didn't know thatgrowing up.
So I just follow my dad,whatever he says, and you
prepare yourself to be worthy orpure in the eyes of Mormonism
to receive a temple recommend.
And they call that the highestcalling that you could do in
(04:55):
Mormon religion is baptizing anddoing works for the dead.
These are people who havealready passed on, and you are
to go to the temple and baptizein their name.
So they'll take you into thefont, the baptismal font in the
basement of the temple whenyou're 14, because you're not
allowed to the top until youbecome marriage worthy.
(05:18):
So we go in this font in thebasement and we are baptized for
dead people.
When there's a lot of us andthere's a large line, there
would be 14 names, and theywould say the name they'd say in
the Father, Son, Holy Spirit,very mixed between Bible, and
then they would dunk you all theway in, and then they would do
(05:38):
the same ritual for the nextname, dunk you in.
And this was supposed to be ahigh honor.
I laugh now because I'm out ofit.
Thank you, Jesus.
But but when you're in it, youthink that you're doing the
greatest work for God, thatthat's what He's having you do
is spend time helping the dead.
So what I was taught was thatthese people beyond the veil,
(06:00):
because they believe there'sstill a veil, beyond the veil
would be able to acceptMormonism in heaven.
And if they accept it, thenthey also get to go to the
celestial kingdom.
So you, as proxy, are theirsavior.
When you go there, you would begreeted by all of these people
that you got to do the work forand that they got to receive
Beyond the Veil because theydidn't have the chance, or that
(06:23):
they rejected Mormonism on earthlife.
This is all the belief that Iwas brainwashed in growing up.
Margaret Ereneta (06:32):
Kristen goes on to share a lot of other
Mormon teachings.
And if you want to see thetruth and compare Christianity
and Mormonism, check out ourshow notes.
I encourage you to do afterlistening to the show.
Kristen Hale (06:47):
Yes.
So we're also taught thatthere's a premortal existence.
That means that Mormons believethat you're there with God and
that he sends you down andyou're a spirit child.
They use the Bible verse that Iknew you before you were in
your mother's womb to confirmthat what they believe is that
(07:08):
yes, we were there with himinstead of just in the mind of
God, that he knew us.
So they believe that God sendsyou down to the earth life.
And then after you die, you goto either spirit paradise or
spirit prison.
That is if you acceptedMormonism or not.
If you are in prison, thepeople in spirit paradise can
(07:29):
come down and missionary andteach the people in spirit
prison what Mormonism is.
And if they accept it, they cango to spirit paradise too,
before the final judgment.
And when there's a finaljudgment, you are placed either
in the highest kingdom, which iscelestial glory, or there is
terrestrial glory, which is thesecond one.
(07:50):
And then the third one istelestral.
So it goes celestial,terrestrial, telestial, and then
they call hell outer darkness.
So based on your works and howpure you were, and how you
conform to the Mormon rules,that is which heaven you would
go to.
Now, the celestial kingdom, thetop heaven has three degrees of
(08:13):
glory within the celestial.
You reach the top when you getmarried in the Mormon temple.
That's when you reach the top.
You fulfilled every ordinance,you got baptized, you got
confirmed, a member of theChurch of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints.
And then you are married intothe temple, which is to them the
highest degree because nowyou're sealed.
(08:35):
That's also what you do in thetemple for the dead.
After you get married andsealed in the temple, you then
marry and seal other couples inthe temple.
And they call that the greatestwork you can do on earth
because they believe you have tobe married to receive the
highest honor and the highestglory of heaven, to become a God
(08:57):
yourself.
Margaret Ereneta (08:59):
Yes, you heard that right.
She said to become a godyourself.
That is the goal in Mormonism.
Kristen Hale (09:07):
So every Mormon will say exaltation is better
than salvation.
They say exaltation is thehighest you can achieve because
you get to become a god yourselfand create worlds yourself with
your spouse who you're sealedto.
And I remember being taughtthis and thinking, what bug
would I take out?
Because now I'm supposed to bea god when I'm older and this is
(09:29):
what I'm preparing for.
And they'll say, Yeah,salvation, Jesus made a way for
salvation, but exaltation iswhat we achieve to become a God
yourself.
That's the goal, to be marriedand to procreate in heaven.
The afterlife is also to makeyour own babies.
So you're going to become yourGod, your own God with your
(09:52):
spouse, the, I guess, mother Godand the father God, and have
spiritual babies yourself.
And they believe that there'sworlds without number.
That's in their scripture in thePearl of Great Price, the book
of Moses.
And so they believe there'sother gods on other worlds, and
that they've gone to their ownheaven, become a God, created
(10:14):
their own world, and that is howit's the one eternal realm that
there's multiple worlds, andthis is what you will do
someday, too.
So the Pearl of Great Price hubsthe book of Abraham, the book
of Moses, and so it's likeanother hub.
They have what's called a quad.
So they have the Bible at thebottom, then they have the Book
(10:34):
of Mormon, then they have theDoctrine and Covenants, and then
they have the Pearl of GreatPrice.
So there are four books in one.
They'll never just buy a Bible,they'll buy what's called the
quad.
And it has all of these books.
Margaret Ereneta (10:48):
Next, Kristen talks about that works based
mentality and what it's like tolive under the weight of that
kind of theology.
Kristen Hale (10:57):
The worksbased mentality is that you're never
enough, you've never arrived.
There's always a destination,there's always a goal.
You can always progress, youcan always be better.
And that is what Mormonism is,is you have to become better in
all aspects.
It was never a I'm proud of youmoment.
I don't believe I was ever toldthat growing up.
(11:18):
I'm proud of you, because thatwould mean I've reached, I'm
good enough.
The grace was missing growingup.
The grace of you don't have tobe this.
There's someone bigger than youwho already is this.
And through that love, you growin that grace.
There was no grace in thegrowth in Mormonism.
(11:38):
It was always look at the nextperson next to you, compare
yourself to other people, andbecome perfect and more perfect.
And it was a very outwardappearance show, and because
it's we want to be seen so thatothers come to our light, or you
want to come to our light.
We're happy over here.
We're really good at what we do.
(12:00):
We have a lot of money.
And so it kind of reminds me oflike a light bulb.
And the bugs will go to thelight bulb, but the light's not
good for them.
And they'll actually die ifthey get too close because of
the heat.
And so what looks like light isnot truly light.
And um, Satan himself disguiseshimself as the angel of light,
(12:23):
and that's where Mormons aretrapped.
Church that looks good.
But when it comes down to it,when you get sick, I remember
the first time I got sick andcouldn't make it to a Mormon
church.
You are to go every week.
That's just what is expected.
There's no room for error,there's no room for sickness,
there's no room for mistakes.
It's a very independentreligion.
(12:45):
You get there by yourself,nobody's gonna help you.
Get back up, keep going, getback up, keep going.
Like I ran track in middleschool and in high school, and
there was a time where I triedto run the hurdles and I had
flat feet.
Half of the family has veryflat feet.
And here I am trying to runhurdles where you're supposed to
be able to jump and have avertical.
(13:06):
And I tripped over the secondhurdle at a meet, and I was
bleeding on my hands and on myknees.
And I got up and kept going andfinished.
And apparently I still beatsomebody.
And that was a story my dadloved to tell everybody is even
though she fell, even though shewas bleeding, she kept going.
(13:26):
She kept going, and she evenbeat somebody else.
Like that was his proud dadmoment.
And I just remember after thatmeet, actually, my grandpa was
there too.
And he was the one who lookedat my hands and was like, Are
you okay?
Do we need to get you aband-aid?
Do we need to rinse that bloodoff of you?
But my dad was like, wow, andjust raving.
(13:48):
And so it was it's like ifyou're missing the care point,
you're missing, you're missingthat mark where it's not about
performance.
It's not about the outward,it's about the heart, it's about
the love.
And we can't overlook whatsomeone's going through.
But in Mormonism, you dobecause you got to keep moving,
(14:08):
you got to keep getting to thenext level in a sense.
Margaret Ereneta (14:13):
We're coming up on a really sad circumstance
where Kristen realizes somethingis wrong with this religion.
Kristen Hale (14:21):
There was an instance where my my aunt, for
instance, she has 13 kids.
You have a lot of kids in theMormon religion because they
tell you that it's a commandmentto multiply and replenish the
earth, as said in Genesis, butobviously God blessed them to
multiply.
It wasn't, I command you to dothis in the sense that Mormons
would take it, how far theywould take it.
(14:42):
But there was a time that oneof my cousins was coming into
town and it was in the winter,and their car slipped on black
ice and rolled six times.
And that is where one of mycousins passed away.
And I was 14 years old at thetime, and they came in just like
(15:03):
zombies, like no hope, no hopein them.
But they were coming for theirniece's baptism.
So the baptism was the nextmorning, and during the baptism,
they put on a happy face, eventhough their sister just died
the night before.
They came in about 3 a.m.
in the morning, and the baptismwas at 9 a.m.
(15:24):
So barely got any sleep.
And we went to the baptism andthey decided not to tell their
niece because they wanted theirniece to have a good baptism.
So instead of telling theirniece that their aunt had
passed, it was hush hush.
And I remember looking around,like, what am I doing in this
church?
Putting on a happy face andpretending to this little child
(15:49):
who's eight years old, who'sgetting baptized, that her aunt
just didn't pass away in a caraccident hours before.
And I remember asking mycousins, are you not going to
tell her about Emily?
Emily was her name.
And that was just some of myquestionings.
Um, none of them were largeenough for me to leave the
church altogether, but they weredefinite discernments where I
(16:12):
was like, I don't know aboutthis.
This doesn't feel right.
This isn't, this isn't thestandard.
This isn't the standard.
Those were times where I was alittle confused about what I was
in.
And then everybody was in forit.
It was like, yeah.
So everyone smile.
Don't tell her, like they satus down.
(16:32):
Don't tell her about Emily.
And I remember we all went in aline after she got baptized and
hugged her.
And I was just like, oh, like Iwanted to tell her so bad
because I don't think ignoranceis the key.
I think truth is.
And allow her to go throughthose feelings by herself.
You know, don't hide the truth,don't be ignorant to the truth.
(16:53):
You know, maybe we'll postponeher baptism.
You know, this is a very realthing that happened.
Our cousin just died.
It's a big deal.
She's 17.
I was 14.
So yeah, it was a very gruesomenight that just left me
confused.
Margaret Ereneta (17:09):
So a Mormon typically has a lot of turning
points, a lot of glimmers ofhope before actually leaving the
church.
And so Kristen is no exceptionto that.
But here's some of them thatstarted unfolding for her.
Kristen Hale (17:26):
Yes, I have two of them, and they could be short.
So these two I wrote about inmy book.
Um, my first experience withChristianity was I had a friend
at high school, and she wasLutheran, I believe, but she was
Bible-based, and she invited meto one of her services.
You don't invite a Mormon toyour services.
(17:47):
Mormons don't go to otherchurches.
We only invite people to ourchurches because we're told that
ours is the only true church inthe world, the only true one,
because that's what JosephSmith, that's the words that he
used when he says that herestored the true church on the
earth because apparently therewas this huge apostasy.
That is what their belief is,is that the church left the face
(18:10):
of the earth and that God usedJoseph Smith to restore it.
And that's what they call therestoration of the gospel.
And obviously, we knowbiblically that the gates of
Hades will not prevail againstthe church, Peter the rock.
And that is what Jesus said.
So we have two very differingdoctrines there.
But I went, I got permission togo to this friend's church as
(18:35):
long as she came to our churchafter and heard me speak,
because I was speaking that day.
I don't know if I'm sure my dadhad something to do with that
being the same day because he'sthe bishop.
He calls Who Speaks that day.
So I go to her church and wewent into this dark room, and
people are worshiping, andthere's a guitar and there's
(18:59):
drums, and I'm thinking like,this is not the true church.
So there's it's already redflags are going all over me.
And I heard something like, Iwill be up there someday.
I heard, you know, somesomething, something said,
you're gonna be up there.
And it made my heart go reallyfast.
(19:20):
And I had to leave the room.
And I went to the bathroom andI was just like almost like
hyperventilating, like, what onearth?
And I I came back in and I toldlike my friend, like, I want to
leave.
I think it's time to leave.
So obviously I was beingconvicted in some way.
And that was one of the firstexperiences I ever had with
Christianity, was from thisfriend.
(19:42):
Obviously, she came to ourchurch afterwards.
I did my very best.
Obviously, I used all of theMormon doctrine and trying to
get my friend to get intoMormonism.
So funny now that I'm out.
But she was not moved by myspeech.
And when I came down, I waslike, Did the Holy Spirit
convict you to Mormonism?
(20:04):
And she just was like, You dida good job.
Like, as if it was someperformance.
And I was like, What?
Like, I was just so taken back.
Like, I just did my very bestwork.
I used everything I had everbeen taught, and you're not,
you're not moved.
So that was one experience thatreally, really bothered me.
And then as I grew older, Iwent to college.
(20:26):
I went to Utah State Universityfirst on a piano degree
scholarship.
While I was there on campus,there was a preacher, and he had
a big poster board that said,Mormons are going to hell.
And hell was in red letters andit was large.
I remember walking past becausethe cafe is close.
I walked past it and I waslike, it was the first time I'd
(20:49):
ever heard anybody saying that.
We're the best.
We're taught, we're the best.
We have the best standards,we're the most worthy.
How would we be going to thisplace of hell?
So I came over to the groupthat was there and just started
listening.
And this man's just talking andhe knows the Book of Mormon and
(21:09):
he knows the Bible and he'sjust talking.
And I tried to put in a fewwords because I was like, wait,
you didn't read the Book ofMormon because we're just told
to say what we're taught.
I brought in, you know, butfaith without works is dead
because we're taught all thesethings.
So I'm just repeating what I'mtaught.
And he was able to kind ofunravel a few things in me.
(21:29):
But I left because I was like,nope, I've been taught to stay
away from preachers like this.
I've been taught if they'rebeing paid that it's not their
true heart.
Because no Mormons are paid forwhat they do.
It's all volunteer work.
The only people that are paidare the apostles and the
prophet.
They get a six-figure salary.
But no bishop of the Mormonchurch, state president, they
(21:50):
don't get paid.
Everything is voluntary.
So if you see a preacher beingpaid, then you're like, oh,
they're being paid to do this.
Obviously, people need money tolive.
But that's what Mormons willsay as an excuse to not listen.
So I called my parents and Isaid, This man is saying that
Mormons are going to hell.
What's going on?
(22:10):
And my dad just shut it downreal quick.
And he said, Don't listen toanybody like that.
So I did.
In my mind, I'm like, oh, okay,that's anti-Mormon.
That's anti-Mormon literature.
They're trying to lead you tohell.
So stay away.
We're taught in that cult tonot look at anything, any books
(22:30):
that are against Mormonism, anytruth, really.
I mean, people are trying toget you out of Mormonism because
they want you to know thetruth.
But if you're in Mormonism,it's nope, that's bad.
Everything that's against us isbad.
So you learn that.
Margaret Ereneta (22:50):
Thanks for listening.
Check in next week as we finishKristen's One80.
Hear how she becomes paralyzed,fighting for her life and
looking for answers outside ofMormonism.
It's filled with so much hope.
And Jesus.
Don't miss it.
Join our email list if younever want to miss a One80.
That link is in our show notes.
Announcer (23:23):
One80 is brought to you by One Way Ministries.
Exalt Christ, advance hisgospel.
Welcome to One80.
Transforming testimonies fromnext door to across the globe.
Be amazed at how God works tobring people to himself.
Share today's One80 with afriend.
It might be the best news theyhear today.
Kristen Hale (00:29):
No verse in the words that I had was giving me
any help or any truth.
And I remember one morning myhusband switched the Book of
Mormon for a Bible.
Like, kind of like here, trythis.
And those words were speakingto me.
Margaret Ereneta (00:53):
My work is done here, Jesus told Kristen
Hale as she hobbled to thealtar, walker afoot.
And her work was also done.
The never-ending cycle ofworking to please a distant God.
She would flee Mormonism andfind healing, body, mind, and
spirit.
This is your host, MargaretEreneta.
(01:16):
Welcome to Kristen's One80,part one.
Kristen Hale (01:23):
So I was born and raised in Mormonism, and my dad
was actually bishop of theMormon church for five years
while I was growing up andentering my teenage years.
It was all that I ever knew.
So the rule keeping and thedietary restrictions and the
modest clothing, it was all thisis how you worship God, is the
(01:45):
outward appearance.
I loved doing what was right.
I loved choosing the right.
That was what I was taughtwould give me happiness and
celestial glory.
It was all about the afterlifegrowing up.
And if you do this, then youwill get this.
It was very reward system.
I grew up in a family of nine.
(02:07):
My dad being the bishop, hecalled me to be the organist of
the ward.
They call that the geographicallocation of where we lived.
That is the church that youwould go to or the time that you
would be scheduled to go tochurch.
And they would call that award.
Middle school, high school, youwould find Mormon cliques, they
(02:27):
would call it.
So there would be just a groupof Mormons, and you were to be a
part of that clique to makesure you were following and
choosing the right.
And if there was somebody out ofline, if one of your friends
started cussing or drinking, youwould be expected to leave and
make sure you were stayingaround the right crowd.
So very cult tick in thechurch, but also outward.
(02:50):
So if you're going to school,you make sure that you're
involving yourself aroundMormons.
You don't date anybody who isnot Mormon.
Growing up, it was very strict.
Margaret Ereneta (03:03):
Next, Kristen describes baptism by proxy.
Listen in.
Kristen Hale (03:09):
So you're born in the ceiling and you are to
follow all the ordinances andthe rituals, which is when
you're eight, you are baptized.
When you're 12, if you're aman, you become a deacon where
you'll pass the sacrament duringchurch.
So it's very age-related.
When you're 14, you serve atthe temple and you do baptisms
(03:31):
for the dead, which issupposedly a high honor.
You have to keep yourselfworthy, worthy being Mormon
rules, following the dietaryrestrictions, no coffee, no tea,
no strong drinks, and thenwearing modest clothing.
And you have a temple interviewwith your bishop, which mine at
the time was my own dad.
(03:51):
So he would take us um into theguest room of our house.
I grew up in a lot of money.
Our house was large, thelargest on the block, three
stories, massive.
I can't explain it.
Huge mansion.
And many of the Mormons youwill recognize have mansions or
(04:12):
large, large buildings.
There's a lot of money in theMormon church.
They're actually business-wisesitting on 80 billion in stocks.
So there's a large reason whythe elders or the prophet today
is not going to divulge thathe's speaking these lies because
it's more of a business than itis anything else.
(04:33):
And I do believe in my heartthat they know these things.
Obviously, we didn't know thatgrowing up.
So I just follow my dad,whatever he says, and you
prepare yourself to be worthy orpure in the eyes of Mormonism
to receive a temple recommend.
And they call that the highestcalling that you could do in
(04:55):
Mormon religion is baptizing anddoing works for the dead.
These are people who havealready passed on, and you are
to go to the temple and baptizein their name.
So they'll take you into thefont, the baptismal font in the
basement of the temple whenyou're 14, because you're not
allowed to the top until youbecome marriage worthy.
(05:18):
So we go in this font in thebasement and we are baptized for
dead people.
When there's a lot of us andthere's a large line, there
would be 14 names, and theywould say the name they'd say in
the Father, Son, Holy Spirit,very mixed between Bible, and
then they would dunk you all theway in, and then they would do
(05:38):
the same ritual for the nextname, dunk you in.
And this was supposed to be ahigh honor.
I laugh now because I'm out ofit.
Thank you, Jesus.
But but when you're in it, youthink that you're doing the
greatest work for God, thatthat's what He's having you do
is spend time helping the dead.
So what I was taught was thatthese people beyond the veil,
(06:00):
because they believe there'sstill a veil, beyond the veil
would be able to acceptMormonism in heaven.
And if they accept it, thenthey also get to go to the
celestial kingdom.
So you, as proxy, are theirsavior.
When you go there, you would begreeted by all of these people
that you got to do the work forand that they got to receive
Beyond the Veil because theydidn't have the chance, or that
(06:23):
they rejected Mormonism on earthlife.
This is all the belief that Iwas brainwashed in growing up.
Margaret Ereneta (06:32):
Kristen goes on to share a lot of other
Mormon teachings.
And if you want to see thetruth and compare Christianity
and Mormonism, check out ourshow notes.
I encourage you to do afterlistening to the show.
Kristen Hale (06:47):
Yes.
So we're also taught thatthere's a premortal existence.
That means that Mormons believethat you're there with God and
that he sends you down andyou're a spirit child.
They use the Bible verse that Iknew you before you were in
your mother's womb to confirmthat what they believe is that
(07:08):
yes, we were there with himinstead of just in the mind of
God, that he knew us.
So they believe that God sendsyou down to the earth life.
And then after you die, you goto either spirit paradise or
spirit prison.
That is if you acceptedMormonism or not.
If you are in prison, thepeople in spirit paradise can
(07:29):
come down and missionary andteach the people in spirit
prison what Mormonism is.
And if they accept it, they cango to spirit paradise too,
before the final judgment.
And when there's a finaljudgment, you are placed either
in the highest kingdom, which iscelestial glory, or there is
terrestrial glory, which is thesecond one.
(07:50):
And then the third one istelestral.
So it goes celestial,terrestrial, telestial, and then
they call hell outer darkness.
So based on your works and howpure you were, and how you
conform to the Mormon rules,that is which heaven you would
go to.
Now, the celestial kingdom, thetop heaven has three degrees of
(08:13):
glory within the celestial.
You reach the top when you getmarried in the Mormon temple.
That's when you reach the top.
You fulfilled every ordinance,you got baptized, you got
confirmed, a member of theChurch of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints.
And then you are married intothe temple, which is to them the
highest degree because nowyou're sealed.
(08:35):
That's also what you do in thetemple for the dead.
After you get married andsealed in the temple, you then
marry and seal other couples inthe temple.
And they call that the greatestwork you can do on earth
because they believe you have tobe married to receive the
highest honor and the highestglory of heaven, to become a God
(08:57):
yourself.
Margaret Ereneta (08:59):
Yes, you heard that right.
She said to become a godyourself.
That is the goal in Mormonism.
Kristen Hale (09:07):
So every Mormon will say exaltation is better
than salvation.
They say exaltation is thehighest you can achieve because
you get to become a god yourselfand create worlds yourself with
your spouse who you're sealedto.
And I remember being taughtthis and thinking, what bug
would I take out?
Because now I'm supposed to bea god when I'm older and this is
(09:29):
what I'm preparing for.
And they'll say, Yeah,salvation, Jesus made a way for
salvation, but exaltation iswhat we achieve to become a God
yourself.
That's the goal, to be marriedand to procreate in heaven.
The afterlife is also to makeyour own babies.
So you're going to become yourGod, your own God with your
(09:52):
spouse, the, I guess, mother Godand the father God, and have
spiritual babies yourself.
And they believe that there'sworlds without number.
That's in their scripture in thePearl of Great Price, the book
of Moses.
And so they believe there'sother gods on other worlds, and
that they've gone to their ownheaven, become a God, created
(10:14):
their own world, and that is howit's the one eternal realm that
there's multiple worlds, andthis is what you will do
someday, too.
So the Pearl of Great Price hubsthe book of Abraham, the book
of Moses, and so it's likeanother hub.
They have what's called a quad.
So they have the Bible at thebottom, then they have the Book
(10:34):
of Mormon, then they have theDoctrine and Covenants, and then
they have the Pearl of GreatPrice.
So there are four books in one.
They'll never just buy a Bible,they'll buy what's called the
quad.
And it has all of these books.
Margaret Ereneta (10:48):
Next, Kristen talks about that works based
mentality and what it's like tolive under the weight of that
kind of theology.
Kristen Hale (10:57):
The worksbased mentality is that you're never
enough, you've never arrived.
There's always a destination,there's always a goal.
You can always progress, youcan always be better.
And that is what Mormonism is,is you have to become better in
all aspects.
It was never a I'm proud of youmoment.
I don't believe I was ever toldthat growing up.
(11:18):
I'm proud of you, because thatwould mean I've reached, I'm
good enough.
The grace was missing growingup.
The grace of you don't have tobe this.
There's someone bigger than youwho already is this.
And through that love, you growin that grace.
There was no grace in thegrowth in Mormonism.
(11:38):
It was always look at the nextperson next to you, compare
yourself to other people, andbecome perfect and more perfect.
And it was a very outwardappearance show, and because
it's we want to be seen so thatothers come to our light, or you
want to come to our light.
We're happy over here.
We're really good at what we do.
(12:00):
We have a lot of money.
And so it kind of reminds me oflike a light bulb.
And the bugs will go to thelight bulb, but the light's not
good for them.
And they'll actually die ifthey get too close because of
the heat.
And so what looks like light isnot truly light.
And um, Satan himself disguiseshimself as the angel of light,
(12:23):
and that's where Mormons aretrapped.
Church that looks good.
But when it comes down to it,when you get sick, I remember
the first time I got sick andcouldn't make it to a Mormon
church.
You are to go every week.
That's just what is expected.
There's no room for error,there's no room for sickness,
there's no room for mistakes.
It's a very independentreligion.
(12:45):
You get there by yourself,nobody's gonna help you.
Get back up, keep going, getback up, keep going.
Like I ran track in middleschool and in high school, and
there was a time where I triedto run the hurdles and I had
flat feet.
Half of the family has veryflat feet.
And here I am trying to runhurdles where you're supposed to
be able to jump and have avertical.
(13:06):
And I tripped over the secondhurdle at a meet, and I was
bleeding on my hands and on myknees.
And I got up and kept going andfinished.
And apparently I still beatsomebody.
And that was a story my dadloved to tell everybody is even
though she fell, even though shewas bleeding, she kept going.
(13:26):
She kept going, and she evenbeat somebody else.
Like that was his proud dadmoment.
And I just remember after thatmeet, actually, my grandpa was
there too.
And he was the one who lookedat my hands and was like, Are
you okay?
Do we need to get you aband-aid?
Do we need to rinse that bloodoff of you?
But my dad was like, wow, andjust raving.
(13:48):
And so it was it's like ifyou're missing the care point,
you're missing, you're missingthat mark where it's not about
performance.
It's not about the outward,it's about the heart, it's about
the love.
And we can't overlook whatsomeone's going through.
But in Mormonism, you dobecause you got to keep moving,
(14:08):
you got to keep getting to thenext level in a sense.
Margaret Ereneta (14:13):
We're coming up on a really sad circumstance
where Kristen realizes somethingis wrong with this religion.
Kristen Hale (14:21):
There was an instance where my my aunt, for
instance, she has 13 kids.
You have a lot of kids in theMormon religion because they
tell you that it's a commandmentto multiply and replenish the
earth, as said in Genesis, butobviously God blessed them to
multiply.
It wasn't, I command you to dothis in the sense that Mormons
would take it, how far theywould take it.
(14:42):
But there was a time that oneof my cousins was coming into
town and it was in the winter,and their car slipped on black
ice and rolled six times.
And that is where one of mycousins passed away.
And I was 14 years old at thetime, and they came in just like
(15:03):
zombies, like no hope, no hopein them.
But they were coming for theirniece's baptism.
So the baptism was the nextmorning, and during the baptism,
they put on a happy face, eventhough their sister just died
the night before.
They came in about 3 a.m.
in the morning, and the baptismwas at 9 a.m.
(15:24):
So barely got any sleep.
And we went to the baptism andthey decided not to tell their
niece because they wanted theirniece to have a good baptism.
So instead of telling theirniece that their aunt had
passed, it was hush hush.
And I remember looking around,like, what am I doing in this
church?
Putting on a happy face andpretending to this little child
(15:49):
who's eight years old, who'sgetting baptized, that her aunt
just didn't pass away in a caraccident hours before.
And I remember asking mycousins, are you not going to
tell her about Emily?
Emily was her name.
And that was just some of myquestionings.
Um, none of them were largeenough for me to leave the
church altogether, but they weredefinite discernments where I
(16:12):
was like, I don't know aboutthis.
This doesn't feel right.
This isn't, this isn't thestandard.
This isn't the standard.
Those were times where I was alittle confused about what I was
in.
And then everybody was in forit.
It was like, yeah.
So everyone smile.
Don't tell her, like they satus down.
(16:32):
Don't tell her about Emily.
And I remember we all went in aline after she got baptized and
hugged her.
And I was just like, oh, like Iwanted to tell her so bad
because I don't think ignoranceis the key.
I think truth is.
And allow her to go throughthose feelings by herself.
You know, don't hide the truth,don't be ignorant to the truth.
(16:53):
You know, maybe we'll postponeher baptism.
You know, this is a very realthing that happened.
Our cousin just died.
It's a big deal.
She's 17.
I was 14.
So yeah, it was a very gruesomenight that just left me
confused.
Margaret Ereneta (17:09):
So a Mormon typically has a lot of turning
points, a lot of glimmers ofhope before actually leaving the
church.
And so Kristen is no exceptionto that.
But here's some of them thatstarted unfolding for her.
Kristen Hale (17:26):
Yes, I have two of them, and they could be short.
So these two I wrote about inmy book.
Um, my first experience withChristianity was I had a friend
at high school, and she wasLutheran, I believe, but she was
Bible-based, and she invited meto one of her services.
You don't invite a Mormon toyour services.
(17:47):
Mormons don't go to otherchurches.
We only invite people to ourchurches because we're told that
ours is the only true church inthe world, the only true one,
because that's what JosephSmith, that's the words that he
used when he says that herestored the true church on the
earth because apparently therewas this huge apostasy.
That is what their belief is,is that the church left the face
(18:10):
of the earth and that God usedJoseph Smith to restore it.
And that's what they call therestoration of the gospel.
And obviously, we knowbiblically that the gates of
Hades will not prevail againstthe church, Peter the rock.
And that is what Jesus said.
So we have two very differingdoctrines there.
But I went, I got permission togo to this friend's church as
(18:35):
long as she came to our churchafter and heard me speak,
because I was speaking that day.
I don't know if I'm sure my dadhad something to do with that
being the same day because he'sthe bishop.
He calls Who Speaks that day.
So I go to her church and wewent into this dark room, and
people are worshiping, andthere's a guitar and there's
(18:59):
drums, and I'm thinking like,this is not the true church.
So there's it's already redflags are going all over me.
And I heard something like, Iwill be up there someday.
I heard, you know, somesomething, something said,
you're gonna be up there.
And it made my heart go reallyfast.
(19:20):
And I had to leave the room.
And I went to the bathroom andI was just like almost like
hyperventilating, like, what onearth?
And I I came back in and I toldlike my friend, like, I want to
leave.
I think it's time to leave.
So obviously I was beingconvicted in some way.
And that was one of the firstexperiences I ever had with
Christianity, was from thisfriend.
(19:42):
Obviously, she came to ourchurch afterwards.
I did my very best.
Obviously, I used all of theMormon doctrine and trying to
get my friend to get intoMormonism.
So funny now that I'm out.
But she was not moved by myspeech.
And when I came down, I waslike, Did the Holy Spirit
convict you to Mormonism?
(20:04):
And she just was like, You dida good job.
Like, as if it was someperformance.
And I was like, What?
Like, I was just so taken back.
Like, I just did my very bestwork.
I used everything I had everbeen taught, and you're not,
you're not moved.
So that was one experience thatreally, really bothered me.
And then as I grew older, Iwent to college.
(20:26):
I went to Utah State Universityfirst on a piano degree
scholarship.
While I was there on campus,there was a preacher, and he had
a big poster board that said,Mormons are going to hell.
And hell was in red letters andit was large.
I remember walking past becausethe cafe is close.
I walked past it and I waslike, it was the first time I'd
(20:49):
ever heard anybody saying that.
We're the best.
We're taught, we're the best.
We have the best standards,we're the most worthy.
How would we be going to thisplace of hell?
So I came over to the groupthat was there and just started
listening.
And this man's just talking andhe knows the Book of Mormon and
(21:09):
he knows the Bible and he'sjust talking.
And I tried to put in a fewwords because I was like, wait,
you didn't read the Book ofMormon because we're just told
to say what we're taught.
I brought in, you know, butfaith without works is dead
because we're taught all thesethings.
So I'm just repeating what I'mtaught.
And he was able to kind ofunravel a few things in me.
(21:29):
But I left because I was like,nope, I've been taught to stay
away from preachers like this.
I've been taught if they'rebeing paid that it's not their
true heart.
Because no Mormons are paid forwhat they do.
It's all volunteer work.
The only people that are paidare the apostles and the
prophet.
They get a six-figure salary.
But no bishop of the Mormonchurch, state president, they
(21:50):
don't get paid.
Everything is voluntary.
So if you see a preacher beingpaid, then you're like, oh,
they're being paid to do this.
Obviously, people need money tolive.
But that's what Mormons willsay as an excuse to not listen.
So I called my parents and Isaid, This man is saying that
Mormons are going to hell.
What's going on?
(22:10):
And my dad just shut it downreal quick.
And he said, Don't listen toanybody like that.
So I did.
In my mind, I'm like, oh, okay,that's anti-Mormon.
That's anti-Mormon literature.
They're trying to lead you tohell.
So stay away.
We're taught in that cult tonot look at anything, any books
(22:30):
that are against Mormonism, anytruth, really.
I mean, people are trying toget you out of Mormonism because
they want you to know thetruth.
But if you're in Mormonism,it's nope, that's bad.
Everything that's against us isbad.
So you learn that.
Margaret Ereneta (22:50):
Thanks for listening.
Check in next week as we finishKristen's One80.
Hear how she becomes paralyzed,fighting for her life and
looking for answers outside ofMormonism.
It's filled with so much hope.
And Jesus.
Don't miss it.
Join our email list if younever want to miss a One80.
That link is in our show notes.
Announcer (23:23):
One80 is brought to you by One Way Ministries.
Exalt Christ, advance hisgospel.
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