January 3, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode of Open Seat, we delve into the inspiring journey of Ivelisse Auffant. Ivelisse shares her path from growing up in Puerto Rico to dedicating her life to the Adrian Dominican Sisters, her academic endeavors, and her extensive travel experiences around the globe. Her narrative also explores the challenges and transitions that led her to eventually leave the Adrian Dominican Sisters after 30 years, and her continued commitment to faith and community. If you listen carefully, you will hear Ivelisse express gratitude when each chapter of her life comes to a close. Through a heartfelt conversation with Katie Love, we learn about her reflections on suffering, gratitude, and the guiding presence of God in her life.
This is a podcast of Holy Family Parish, located in Adrian MI. We are a Catholic people, not a place, striving to Live Jesus through celebrating the sacraments and forming disciples in Adrian and beyond.
www.HolyFamilyAdrian.org
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YouTube: www.youtube.com/@holyfamilyadrian
Open Seat es un podcast Parroquia de la Sagrada Familia ubicada en Adrian, Michigan. Somos un pueblo católico, no un lugar, que se esfuerza por vivir a Jesús celebrando los sacramentos y formando discípulos en Adrian y más allá.
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Episode Transcript
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Ivelisse (00:00):
I have learned a lot about seeing how
people respond to faith.
My experience with thesisters, in growing up and
being taught by them, I alwayshad a gratefulness because I
thought, gosh, these people,they left their family they
left their culture, theyleft their friends so that
I could learn about Jesus.
(00:20):
I could learn about God.
Katie (00:22):
Welcome to Open Seat, the podcast where we
create a space for authenticconversations about faith,
unfiltered and unapologetic.
Here, we believe thatevery story matters.
Whether you're questioning,seeking, or steadfast in
your beliefs, you'll findsomething relatable in
these heartfelt discussions.
(00:43):
So grab your seat, getcomfortable, and let's
dive into today's storyhere at Open Seat.
So today in the Open seat, wehave the chief nun spy, also
known as Ivelisse Auffant.
Ivelisse (00:59):
Yes.
Katie (01:00):
Oh man, I've been practicing your
name, so this is good.
I first want to tell you thatyou were such a good sport
to have that conversationto launch Open Seat.
I mean, I'm not sure how manypeople know this, but you
were the voice behind theoriginal launch of Open Seat.
So thank you so much.
Ivelisse (01:18):
You're welcome.
It was a surprise for me.
It really was a surprise.
I didn't really know allthat it was going to entail,
but I'm glad I did it,and you found it helpful.
We did find it very helpful,and I think people enjoyed it.
Well, you know, I'vebeen thinking about my
life and how God has beenpresent since I was little.
Beginning with my baptism,my godparents are my maternal
(01:40):
grandfather and his wife Mygrandfather married three
times, but he was a realstraightforward guy Okay,
and he just was not a goodexperience But yet the woman
that he might last became mygodmother and she was just
a wonderful person In fact,she was the one that chose
my name So I owe it to her
Katie (02:01):
How did she choose your name?
Ivelisse (02:02):
My mother and her I understand that
they talked about itand so my godmother said
well, you know, the lastname is French Let me see
if I can find somethingthat is also French and
so that's how it happened
Katie (02:13):
You are not only French But you're from Puerto Rico
Ivelisse (02:18):
Oh, yes.
My mother's side is from Spain.
My great grandmother was,actually came from Spain and
married a Puerto Rican guy.
And my paternal side, theycame from France through
Corsica to, Guadeloupein the, minor Antilles.
huh.
And then they cameto Puerto Rico.
Three brothers came from,all the way from France
(02:40):
to Corsica to GuadeloupeAnd then two, moved over
to Puerto Rico and oneto Dominican Republic,
so I have relatives inthe Dominican Republic.
Katie (02:48):
Ah, okay.
Ivelisse (02:49):
And, they came because they were
engineers for the train.
At that time, SugarCane was really big.
It's still big, but notas big as it was then.
And so they wereengineers, and so they
came for that reason.
So that's how it started.
And, so here I am.
I love sweets.
And sugar cane is the best.
Katie (03:06):
Sugar cane is the best.
So from Puerto Rico, howdid you come to the U.
S.?
Ivelisse (03:13):
Oh, my.
My first trip to the UnitedStates was to New York
when I was seven years old.
So I took the firstplane right then.
And then, after Igraduated from high
school, I was able to go toUniversity of Puerto Rico.
had previously been educatedin Catholic schools.
We had Americansisters teach us.
In grade school, Ihad the sisters of St.
(03:34):
Joseph from Albany, New York.
huh.
And I was there forthe eight years.
And then for high school,I went to the Adrian
Dominican School that isin Santurce, Puerto Rico,
Academia Sagrado Corazón,the Academy of Sacred Heart.
Katie (03:46):
Sacred Heart, yeah.
Ivelisse (03:48):
And, so when I graduated, I went to,
the University of PuertoRico, and that was a
marvelous experience.
Because at the Universityof Puerto Rico, I learned
a lot about Puerto Ricothat I did not know.
And when I was in highschool, I chose that I
wanted to be a social worker.
And so, as a social worker, Iwanted to work with the poor.
(04:10):
And I'm giving youa long story here.
Katie (04:13):
I'm sure that people are willing to listen for hours.
This is not a problem.
Ivelisse (04:17):
Well, in order for me to find out if I could
work and do social work, Iwanted to experience the poor.
Because it, it was notthat my family was rich
or anything, we were not,we were low middle class.
But I wanted, I was, howwould I say, I grew up
in a parochial school,not parochial, they
were Catholic schools.
(04:38):
And so as such, Iwas not exposed to a
lot of poor people.
So I chose to, when Icame back, I decided that
I wanted to, I signed upfor the Legion of Mary.
When I was a juniorin high school.
Katie (04:53):
The legion of Mary.
Plot twist.
Ivelisse (04:57):
Wow.
So, I mean, thereason, the thing is.
Katie (05:01):
That is not what I saw coming.
Ivelisse (05:03):
Oh, it was really interesting because I only
joined the Legion of Mary soI could go to the Fanguito.
The Fanguito was theworst slum area in the
metropolitan area in SanJuan, Puerto Rico, okay?
So that was my in to getto know some of the people.
Katie (05:20):
This is not hard to believe you were
the chief nun spy now.
Some of this is justall making sense now.
Ivelisse (05:29):
So I loved it.
I loved the people.
And, I did everything thatthe legion asked me to do.
You know, say the rosaryand pray and, you know.
have a ministry.
Well, they didn't callit ministry then, but
you know, you have tohave an apostolate.
So, so that was myfirst experience.
And I thought, Oh,this is, I love this.
I really love this.
My parents didn't likeme going down there.
(05:50):
But I went with the nunsand the nuns didn't know
Spanish and we taughtthe Baltimore Catechism.
That's what we taught.
Katie (05:56):
huh.
huh.
Ivelisse (05:56):
So that was my first experience.
And then from then, whensummer came and we, you
know, as a junior and thenalso as a senior, I went
to, some friends of mine whoare still friends of mine.
They're wonderful people.
And, we went to, a PuertoRican order called the
Sisters of the Good Shepherd.
(06:17):
And they're not thesame as the Sisters of
the Good Shepherd herein the United States.
It's a local, canonical,religious congregation.
Like the Adrians.
Just in Puerto Rico.
Just in Puerto Rico.
Okay.
Just like theAdrians, a canonical
congregation.
Katie (06:29):
So you've done a little hopping.
Oh, yes.
Religious hopping.
Ivelisse (06:33):
I have.
And I have kept hopping.
[laughter].
So from there, I volunteeredto work with the pharmacist,
the one of the nunswas a pharmacist and I
work at the dispensaryand I loved it also.
I also loved it.
Anyway, so I went to theuniversity, finally I'm
going back to the university.
And then this friend ofmine, who is my bestest
(06:54):
friend from Puerto Rico.
Her name is Lucy.
She and another friend ofmine, who also was close,
we decided to make aretreat, a weekend retreat.
Oh my gosh.
I walk in there on a Fridaynight and I said, what
in the heck am I doinghere on a Friday night?
And I looked out the window.
the room is very bare, you know?
. And I look out the light andall the lights of the city.
What am I doing here?
(07:16):
Okay, well, so when I went,when I finished the retreat
on Sunday, that was Fridaynight when I finished
the retreat on Sunday.
The priest that led theretreat, who was a Jesuit, And
a well known Jesuit priest,said, well, what are you
going to do with your life?
Because part of theretreat, or the big part
of the retreat, was todiscern what you were
called to be in your life.
(07:38):
And so, you know, wereflected on the single life,
we reflected on religiouslife, and married life.
And so I decided it'sgoing to be religious life.
Katie (07:47):
Well, out of the Baltimore catechism, it's
the highest vocation.
Ivelisse (07:50):
Well, it's the perfect,
Katie (07:53):
yeah,
Ivelisse (07:53):
it's the perfect lifestyle,
Katie (07:54):
It sure is.
Ivelisse (07:55):
Supposedly.
So, so, you know, beingobsessive compulsive
that I am perfect justfit me really good.
Katie (08:04):
It would, you're right.
Ivelisse (08:07):
So I decided, after a little while, and of course
my parents were not veryhappy when I told them that
I wanted to be a, religious.
So they would notgive me permission.
I chose to, you know,I, I wanted to, I wrote
the prioress, right?
Yeah.
Katie (08:21):
Of which congregation now?
Ivelisse (08:23):
The Adrian Dominican Sisters.
Katie (08:24):
Okay, now we're going to a different one.
Okay.
Ivelisse (08:27):
No, that was just some experience
to get acquainted withthe poor and how to,
you Work with the poor.
Katie (08:32):
Right, right, right, right.
Ivelisse (08:34):
So then now I'm choosing to go to the
Adrian Dominican sisters.
And, I get on this plane.
I entered February 2nd comingfrom the tropics, Puerto Rico.
I had no idea
Katie (08:45):
presentation of the Lord, right?
Ivelisse (08:47):
Yes.
I had no idea where I was going.
I just knew he wasAdrian, Michigan, and they
were going to take me.
So some people, the nunsarranged for me to be taken
into Adrian from Detroit.
So, here I come on the 2ndof February to enter the
Adrian Dominican Sisters,and the group had already
entered in September.
(09:09):
I was late.
Oh, so I have areputation for being late.
Well, I was, so Iwas late to enter.
Katie (09:15):
So your crowd entered in September and you
came in February,
Ivelisse (09:18):
Right.
Because my parents didnot give me permission.
And I just thought thisdoesn't make sense.
How could I join areligious order without
the blessing of my parents?
Because blessing in PuertoRico is shared a lot.
You know, we bless peoplewhen we come into the house.
We bless people whenthey leave the house.
And I thought, itdoesn't make sense.
So I thought, well, I'll justwait, and I'm going to pray.
(09:40):
And I prayed, and oneday, I used to go to
Mass at the the CarmeliteCloister, from my home.
I could walk to it.
And I loved it.
It was really, it wasat six o'clock in the
morning, and I loved it.
Come back, we'requiet, you know.
And I come, and I have thisenvelope on the dining room
table, it's a letter from mydad giving me permission on
(10:01):
behalf of him and my mother.
And it was in November.
So then I wrote to Adrian,to the mother house, to
the prioress, and she said,we'll come in February.
So that's what happened.
Katie (10:13):
And when you arrived in Adrian, the booming
metropolis met you, right?
I mean,
Ivelisse (10:18):
well, anyway, it was.
Katie (10:20):
What year did you come?
Ivelisse (10:22):
1964.
Katie (10:24):
Yeah, so Adrian would have definitely had all that
it has to offer today andmore, I'm sure, at that point.
Ivelisse (10:30):
Well, you know what?
It didn't matter tome because I was in.
I could not, Ididn't know the city.
We didn't, I didn't go out.
Katie (10:38):
In all seriousness, though, wasn't the
motherhouse, prettydisconnected from
the actual community?
Ivelisse (10:44):
Mm hmm.
Oh, yes.
And, I mean, I justwent to the doctor.
I went to maybe get someshoes or something like that.
Right.
But it was, I was confinedto living at the mother house.
Katie (10:54):
To the hill.
Right.
The hill.
Ivelisse (10:56):
But anyway, and then we don't talk,
so it was hard to evenget to know the people.
Katie (10:59):
Oh, you mean once you entered, you couldn't talk.
Sacred silence.
Yep.
Ivelisse (11:03):
And the following day from my entrance, I went
to, to class at Siena Heights.
I went to a class.
Katie (11:08):
So you entered and the next
day you were in classesat Siena Heights.
Ivelisse (11:12):
My bachelor was going to be in
Spanish and English.
And so the first class Iattended at Siena Heights
was English literature.
Katie (11:19):
Spanish and English, but you're a
native Spanish speaker?
Okay.
Ivelisse (11:23):
Well, that was interesting.
That was interesting becausethey gave me, I went to
the Spanish class and theygave me this tape so that I
could record and practice.
Katie (11:30):
Well, 1964 was very different.
So let's just.
Ivelisse (11:34):
The book that we were reading, it was on
this, on the left was Englishon the right was Spanish.
And I was supposed topractice every day and
tape what I practice.
I did it for a little while.
But so then the congregationdecided to help me with
majoring in Spanish andmade arrangements for a
professor from the universityin Santo Domingo, Dominican
(11:55):
Republic, to teach Spanish.
And he taught three of usthat were majoring in Spanish.
Katie (12:00):
Oh.
Were any, were anybody elsewho was majoring in Spanish
a native Spanish speaker?
Ivelisse (12:06):
Actually, yes.
The three of us were.
The three of us were.
Katie (12:10):
The irony of this whole thing.
Ivelisse (12:12):
And it took place on two summers and
the classes were superb.
I mean, this wasa real professor.
Katie (12:18):
Oh, good.
Ivelisse (12:18):
So I majored in Spanish, I graduated,
didn't attend my graduation.
I haven't attended anygraduations except the high
school graduation because Iwas at a distance, you know.
Katie (12:27):
Well, how long were you in the congregation?
Ivelisse (12:30):
30 years.
Katie (12:31):
You're no longer in the congregation.
How long have you been out?
Ivelisse (12:35):
I was in for 30 years and I've
been out for 30 years.
Katie (12:39):
We're not going to do the math on your age.
That's just mean.
But
Ivelisse (12:42):
well, I was 19 when I entered.
Katie (12:44):
Yeah.
Ivelisse (12:45):
You know, so 20 years, I'm 80 now.
Katie (12:48):
Yes.
So you've been out almostas long as you were in.
But my question is like,after 30 years, What
makes you decide to leavewhat you've always known?
Ivelisse (13:01):
My experience as a religious, I was very happy.
I did not leave becauseI didn't like it
or it was too hard.
That was not the reason.
I left it because Ihad questions about
the institution.
I have been a member of theinstitution of the church
since I was baptized, Andso to belong to another
institution didn't maketoo much sense to me.
(13:23):
And there were a few PuertoRicans in the congregation,
although that doesn't,none of that stuff matters.
Ultimately, Katie, andpeople can believe it or not.
I know the truth is within me.
it was a choice of faith.
I only had one brother,my, he was my brother,
but also my best friend.
And he became ill withmultiple sclerosis, and I
(13:46):
saw how his life evolvedwith his condition.
And the congregationwas wonderful to me.
They let me come and visithim two or three times a
year for several years.
I will always be gratefulfor that because,
I just loved him.
He's one of the peoplein my life that He will
always be with me and I'mlooking forward to, to
embrace him at some pointin my life or my afterlife.
(14:08):
So anyway, I saw how helived his life and what
happened in his life andhow he lost everything.
He was married, had two sons.
He lost everything.
he ended up by not being ableto speak, not able to move,
not able to feed himself.
He depended foreverything in his life.
And, in the end.
I saw during those yearsthat he ended up in a
(14:29):
nursing home at some pointbecause taking care of him
was very difficult for hiswife with two children.
And so I even went to PuertoRico at that time and went
with her for that decision.
It was not easy, verydifficult, very painful.
but he was very brave andhe, he understood and he
was willing to do thatbecause he loved his wife.
(14:52):
He was the love of hislife and, the two sons,
he did that for them.
When he died, and evenduring the time that he
was in the nursing home,I met some of his friends
and, and what they did forhim and how they were with
him and how many people hetouched, even from a deathbed.
Remember I said I,I was always happy
(15:13):
in the congregation.
I had wonderful,beautiful experiences,
very powerful experiencesof the church itself.
But I thought, my brotherdidn't have any of that.
When he passed, I knewthat he was going to die.
I could tell.
I just saw him aweek before he died.
But being me, I had to goback to my job in Grand
(15:33):
Rapids at that time.
And so I left and justwithin one week I got a call.
I had not even emptiedmy suitcase yet because
I went right intowork when I came back.
And they called me andthey said he was probably
going to pass that day.
And I was able tospeak with him.
He couldn't talk, buthe could listen to me.
And I was able toto speak with him.
(15:56):
So I'm very grateful for that.
And so I justthought, God loves me.
And I want to growin God's love.
Why not?
I mean, if I have faith,I know that God will
take care of me and Godwill not abandon me.
So that has always beenpart of me and I have had
difficult situations, butI have also have some very
meaningful experiences.
(16:17):
When I said some of theexperiences have been, I
was able to visit Africaand get to know people that
had just been Catholic formaybe 35, 50 years, brand
new Christians in Africa.
And, that was powerful.
That was a powerfulexperience for me.
And I visited, four countries.
I was in the IvoryCoast, I was in Zambia,
(16:38):
Malawi, and Ghana.
I have learned a lotabout seeing how people
respond to faith.
My experience with thesisters, in growing up and
being taught by them, I alwayshad a, gratefulness because I
thought, gosh, these people,they left their family, they
left their culture, theyleft their friends so that
(17:00):
I could learn about Jesus.
I could learn about God.
So, that was always somethingthat, that I considered a
very special gift that I hadreceived from these people.
And one of the reasonsI wanted to be a nun
was because I wanted tonot have them do that.
But then I didn't end upworking in Puerto Rico.
So I worked elsewhere.
I worked in theDominican Republic.
I went to also the Bahamas,that we had sisters in the
(17:22):
Bahamas I worked with thesisters that were in the
Philippines at a distance, Andnow, why did I come to Adrian?
I mean, after all this year,after 30 years, I mean, I'm
out and I come back to Adrian.
Katie (17:32):
Yeah.
There's some ironyin this, right?
Like, I don't want to be a partof the community, but I am.
Ivelisse (17:39):
Well.
And what happened was Ilost one of my closest
friends through that.
I thought, well nowwhat, because this
person really helped megrow as a human person.
And she was not a nun,but she was a believer.
She was very much awareof God in her life.
And so I learned a lot fromher about, she's not a nun,
(18:02):
she's not, you know, but shehad a love for scripture.
And she got, she, she studiedtheology and then when she
did that, she didn't wantto be a pastor or a minister
in a church, so then shewent to study social work.
And that's how we met, becausewe were social workers.
Katie (18:16):
Okay.
Ivelisse (18:16):
after she passed, I thought, now where do I go?
So my first thought was,I'll return to Puerto Rico.
And it didn't seemlike I could do it
there, financially, Ijust couldn't do it.
So I came back.
I lived in Flushing for20 years and I lived there
for a year trying to figureout what to do with myself.
And two sisters foundme, two sisters found me.
(18:38):
And actually, it wasinteresting how I met
them because it was myfriend's brother who told
me he had a good friend.
So he said, my friendtold me that there's a
sister in Flushing and Ijoined Dominican sister
in Flushing and, thatthere are two of them.
He said, you can call them.
I said, well, I don't know them.
I really, the namesdidn't ring, you know?
(19:00):
So, so then on aThanksgiving of 2021.
Pat McGee calls me and shecalled me and she said,
you know, Theresa Mayran.
We'd like to inviteyou for Thanksgiving.
I said, oh, okay.
I still don't knowwho Pat McGee is.
So, so I said, oh,that would be nice.
That would be really nice.
Then there had been sometime passed and so I found
(19:21):
out that Pat McGee and Iwere in the same crowd.
Katie (19:24):
Ooh! But she had entered in
September, you in February.
Ivelisse (19:27):
Right.
So I didn't know herwell, but I remember.
her name.
Anyway, they kept saying,you know, what do you
think about Adrian?
And I thought, no.
Once there, I keep moving.
I don't move back.
You know, we're like,that's not true.
I have moved back.
Katie (19:44):
Yeah.
Ivelisse (19:44):
But you know what?
I know so many of the sistersand so many of the sisters
know me and they're wonderful.
They're very loving,they have received me,
they have welcomed me inthe community, you know,
in the broad community.
So I visit them on and off,and they're there for me
if I want to or need them.
(20:06):
And then I also rememberthat I had a wonderful
experience here at St.
Mary's.
Katie (20:11):
Right.
So
Ivelisse (20:13):
because I worked here.
Katie (20:14):
Yes.
So, Victor Solis.
Ivelisse (20:18):
Yes.
Katie (20:19):
Will talk about Sister Ivie all the time.
And I'm just like, no,I don't know who you're
talking about, Victor.
I'm not that old.
And, and reallythat's what it is.
But he talks about this.
Oh, Sister Ivie in meetings,you know, and then all of
a sudden Sister Ivie popsup and I'm like, wait,
but I don't think so.
And, then it's stillSister Ivie in his world.
(20:41):
But, yeah, you're not, no.
Ivelisse (20:44):
Well, you know, I never, during my whole life
growing up, my family and Idid not belong to a parish.
St.
Mary's was my firstexperience as a parish.
And then I worked hereas an Pastoral Associate
with three Oblates.
Katie (21:00):
And ironically, you're back here working,
in many capacities, as avolunteer, at Holy Family.
Ivelisse (21:09):
And actually, this place, this new
building, there used tobe a convent here, and
I used to live there.
Katie (21:17):
Oh, well, we could arrange so
you live here again.
Ivelisse (21:20):
The building that was destroyed.
I used to live there.
Katie (21:23):
we could arrange for you to live here again.
There's plenty of things to do.
Ivelisse (21:28):
Anyway, I am very happy.
And I know that I tellmy family that they may
not understand, because Ihave a very small family.
I have two nephews.
I have one cousin, one aunt,and that's about it as far
as family is concerned.
So they may notunderstand, but, I feel
like I have come home becauseI left my home for
(21:49):
another home and I'm back.
So that makes me feellike I have come around
full circle.
So I don't know how longI'll be here until the
Lord lets me know thatI need to be elsewhere.
I'm here, open ended.
And it might not be toolong because I'm 80 years
old, but for whatever lengthit is, it'll be my home.
(22:10):
And I love the people.
I really, I love, I thinkthe culture, the similarities
in culture has really,has helped me integrate.
Katie (22:18):
One thing that, I think is very interesting
is that you have had a lotof connections to help guide
you through your transition.
You have your family in PuertoRico, but then when you left
Adrian, you still kept incontact with some Adrian.
And when you left St.
Mary of Good Counsel,you still kept in contact
with people from St.
(22:38):
Mary of Good Counsel.
So connection has been a veryintegral part of your life.
So my question is, why?
Ivelisse (22:46):
And I think I may have told you one day,
if you become my friendand I become your friend,
you're my friend for life.
And so, you know, I havea chat group with my
high school graduates.
I'm in contact with them.
I don't participate a lot,but I know what's going on.
And that connectsme with Puerto Rico.
And they are a veryspecial group of
people, and we think so.
(23:08):
We're very
Katie (23:11):
Humility is not a virtue we're practicing.
Okay, got it.
Ivelisse (23:15):
Well, the people in my class are really special.
They really are.
It's unbelievable howChrist centered they are.
And that's somethingthat I share.
That is my connection.
I think I meet peoplethat are Christ
centered, they love God.
These people, they helpwith prayers and otherwise
continually in the chats,they share what, how they're
(23:37):
sharing and helping otherpeople that need prayers.
Whether it's illnesses orjob seeking or whatever,
they're there for them.
Katie (23:45):
Was that instrumental in your decision to leave
the congregation because yourbaptismal promise that was
made is, as a laywoman, nearlythe same as your community
in a religious community?
You take vows, right,but everything that's
instituted by the churchoccurs at baptism.
Ivelisse (24:06):
That's right.
To me, having beenbaptized was it.
And I think that religiouslife, or even now, my
single life, is an addition.
It's an addition to help yougrow in faith and community.
when I left, I was clear aboutnot wanting to get married
because I just thought ifI get married, I'm going
to be, which is not truebecause I have friends that
(24:28):
have a wonderful ministeriallife along with their
marriage life, you know?
But at that time, that's whatI thought, that I would just
concentrate on my family.
And I would be limited in howI can reach out to others.
And so this has freed me.
My life has freed meto relate to whoever.
I go down the street andI think, pay attention
(24:49):
because this personis, is another Jesus.
Katie (24:52):
There's freedom within not being called
to a specific vocation.
Ivelisse (24:57):
And I don't have a middle name either.
You know, so, butI am confirmed.
I think I have a simple life.
I don't have vows, butI live as if I did.
Katie (25:06):
I think the number one vow would
just be obedience, right?
Those others, I think,flow from obedience.
Ivelisse (25:14):
Exactly.
Katie (25:14):
The vow of poverty is like where you spend
your time and money.
And that is certainlywho's number one?
And that's all obedience is.
And so that's what I thinkis important is that we
remember that we've allhave that call to obedience
by virtue of baptism andstrengthened in confirmation.
Ivelisse (25:32):
And I love that.
When I made vows, Ithought, this is brilliant.
Because I have beenable to continue that.
It's God's will.
Where is God's will for me?
What is it thatGod wants me to do?
That I consider that aspart of decision making.
Katie (25:45):
You can't do a good discernment without
considering, right?
I think you can in terms ofwhat you want, but discernment
should be what God wantsand then how that
fits into my plan.
It's interesting thatthe institutions that
we talk about, they'realmost like silos.
And the better question is howdo they interact better than
(26:09):
just being individual silos.
Ivelisse (26:11):
To tell you the truth, I just don't see that
much difference between thesisters that I befriend now.
Even though I'm not part ofthe community, but I don't
know that much difference.
I mean we suffer, welaugh, we dance, we, we
go places, we have fun.
Different interests.
I just don't see thatthere's that much difference.
They see it fromtheir perspective.
(26:32):
They do see that there'sa difference, but I don't.
And so, that helps me tobe free relating to them.
Katie (26:40):
What difference do they see?
Ivelisse (26:42):
Well, I think it's their commitment to community.
Katie (26:46):
Although, I think you've proven commitment to
your community in terms ofyour people that you relate
to By coming back to Adrianand reuniting with some of
them and keeping your chatgroup going all of these
different things, there'sthe commitment to community.
It's just a different community.
It's not a structuredcommunity, but I think
(27:08):
it's your community.
And I think that there arestill vows taken within that.
If something happened,you would be right
there to do whatever youcould to assist them.
And that's essentiallywhat is called upon.
Ivelisse (27:19):
That's well-stated.
Katie (27:21):
Well, it's fascinating, right?
When you talk about differentvocations, I equally think
the vocation of singlehood isnot really spoken about well.
And one of the things youkept saying repeatedly
today, which I appreciateis the freedom to do what
God's calling you to do.
And sometimes there can beconstraints on that, whether
that be a religious communityor marriage and children.
(27:44):
And so you are free toliterally say, when you said,
I walked down the streetand say, okay, God, because
there's not a constrainton where your money can go
or your time and talent.
Ivelisse (27:55):
that is so very true.
There's a freedom connectedto God and how God manifests
God's presence through theHoly Spirit in our lives.
And so it's not that I don'tget lonely and it's not that
I don't sometimes I get sad.
I mean, it's not like I'mhappy go lucky the whole,
my whole life, everysingle day, but it's a life
that I'm following God.
(28:15):
It's Jesus.
I walk behind Jesus.
Jesus leads me where I go.
Katie (28:19):
It's that divine mercy thing, Jesus, I trust in you.
And for those momentswhen it's not a bed
of roses, let's say.
What gets you throughthose moments?
Ivelisse (28:30):
Well, gratefulness.
Gratefulness.
And I'm growing in that andI'm beginning to grow in
gratefulness, understandingthat, even in suffering,
there's a purpose tosuffering and something
that I can learn from it.
And if I focus ongratefulness, I may
learn what the sufferingis trying to teach me.
And so I find that as asource of growth within
(28:52):
me that sustains me andit just changes my whole
attitude to suffering.
I used to feel that,oh, and I have had this
terrible experience.
My mother died suddenly.
That was a terribleloss when it happened.
At that time I was blessedwith knowing that God allowed
it because it would have beenworse for her to stay alive.
(29:12):
She died of, she died suddenlyof a malignant brain tumor.
So, now looking back,I think, well, I was
grateful at the time, andI didn't even know that it
was called gratefulness.
So, we learn even fromthe difficulties and the
hardships, I can learn,and I have learned, and I
would continue to learn.
Not that it's going tobe easy when it happens,
(29:35):
it's never easy, but theword gratefulness has just
expanded my heart like.
Mmm.
Katie (29:42):
Well, and joy.
Joy is not happiness,but it's being able to
embrace what comes andstill be content with that.
I just want to thank youfor joining us today.
I know, you're the originalnun chief spy and we are
forever grateful for that one.
But, for really comingtoday and really sharing
(30:03):
your heart with us.
Ivelisse (30:05):
Thank you, Katie.
it's been a wonderfulexperience and I'm happy
that I can share this withthe other parishioners
that may be able to listento it and help me grow.
You know, we're together.
We're together on thisand we need each other.
Katie (30:18):
Forward Together.
That's the name ofthe discipleship
plan for the parish.
Forward Together.
Forward Together.
Amen.
Praise the Lord.
Once again, we thank youfor joining us today.
We hope that wherever youfind an open seat in your
life, you will invitesomeone to join you.
I have learned a lot about seeing how
people respond to faith.
My experience with thesisters, in growing up and
being taught by them, I alwayshad a gratefulness because I
thought, gosh, these people,they left their family they
left their culture, theyleft their friends so that
I could learn about Jesus.
(00:20):
I could learn about God.
Katie (00:22):
Welcome to Open Seat, the podcast where we
create a space for authenticconversations about faith,
unfiltered and unapologetic.
Here, we believe thatevery story matters.
Whether you're questioning,seeking, or steadfast in
your beliefs, you'll findsomething relatable in
these heartfelt discussions.
(00:43):
So grab your seat, getcomfortable, and let's
dive into today's storyhere at Open Seat.
So today in the Open seat, wehave the chief nun spy, also
known as Ivelisse Auffant.
Ivelisse (00:59):
Yes.
Katie (01:00):
Oh man, I've been practicing your
name, so this is good.
I first want to tell you thatyou were such a good sport
to have that conversationto launch Open Seat.
I mean, I'm not sure how manypeople know this, but you
were the voice behind theoriginal launch of Open Seat.
So thank you so much.
Ivelisse (01:18):
You're welcome.
It was a surprise for me.
It really was a surprise.
I didn't really know allthat it was going to entail,
but I'm glad I did it,and you found it helpful.
We did find it very helpful,and I think people enjoyed it.
Well, you know, I'vebeen thinking about my
life and how God has beenpresent since I was little.
Beginning with my baptism,my godparents are my maternal
(01:40):
grandfather and his wife Mygrandfather married three
times, but he was a realstraightforward guy Okay,
and he just was not a goodexperience But yet the woman
that he might last became mygodmother and she was just
a wonderful person In fact,she was the one that chose
my name So I owe it to her
Katie (02:01):
How did she choose your name?
Ivelisse (02:02):
My mother and her I understand that
they talked about itand so my godmother said
well, you know, the lastname is French Let me see
if I can find somethingthat is also French and
so that's how it happened
Katie (02:13):
You are not only French But you're from Puerto Rico
Ivelisse (02:18):
Oh, yes.
My mother's side is from Spain.
My great grandmother was,actually came from Spain and
married a Puerto Rican guy.
And my paternal side, theycame from France through
Corsica to, Guadeloupein the, minor Antilles.
huh.
And then they cameto Puerto Rico.
Three brothers came from,all the way from France
(02:40):
to Corsica to GuadeloupeAnd then two, moved over
to Puerto Rico and oneto Dominican Republic,
so I have relatives inthe Dominican Republic.
Katie (02:48):
Ah, okay.
Ivelisse (02:49):
And, they came because they were
engineers for the train.
At that time, SugarCane was really big.
It's still big, but notas big as it was then.
And so they wereengineers, and so they
came for that reason.
So that's how it started.
And, so here I am.
I love sweets.
And sugar cane is the best.
Katie (03:06):
Sugar cane is the best.
So from Puerto Rico, howdid you come to the U.
S.?
Ivelisse (03:13):
Oh, my.
My first trip to the UnitedStates was to New York
when I was seven years old.
So I took the firstplane right then.
And then, after Igraduated from high
school, I was able to go toUniversity of Puerto Rico.
had previously been educatedin Catholic schools.
We had Americansisters teach us.
In grade school, Ihad the sisters of St.
(03:34):
Joseph from Albany, New York.
huh.
And I was there forthe eight years.
And then for high school,I went to the Adrian
Dominican School that isin Santurce, Puerto Rico,
Academia Sagrado Corazón,the Academy of Sacred Heart.
Katie (03:46):
Sacred Heart, yeah.
Ivelisse (03:48):
And, so when I graduated, I went to,
the University of PuertoRico, and that was a
marvelous experience.
Because at the Universityof Puerto Rico, I learned
a lot about Puerto Ricothat I did not know.
And when I was in highschool, I chose that I
wanted to be a social worker.
And so, as a social worker, Iwanted to work with the poor.
(04:10):
And I'm giving youa long story here.
Katie (04:13):
I'm sure that people are willing to listen for hours.
This is not a problem.
Ivelisse (04:17):
Well, in order for me to find out if I could
work and do social work, Iwanted to experience the poor.
Because it, it was notthat my family was rich
or anything, we were not,we were low middle class.
But I wanted, I was, howwould I say, I grew up
in a parochial school,not parochial, they
were Catholic schools.
(04:38):
And so as such, Iwas not exposed to a
lot of poor people.
So I chose to, when Icame back, I decided that
I wanted to, I signed upfor the Legion of Mary.
When I was a juniorin high school.
Katie (04:53):
The legion of Mary.
Plot twist.
Ivelisse (04:57):
Wow.
So, I mean, thereason, the thing is.
Katie (05:01):
That is not what I saw coming.
Ivelisse (05:03):
Oh, it was really interesting because I only
joined the Legion of Mary soI could go to the Fanguito.
The Fanguito was theworst slum area in the
metropolitan area in SanJuan, Puerto Rico, okay?
So that was my in to getto know some of the people.
Katie (05:20):
This is not hard to believe you were
the chief nun spy now.
Some of this is justall making sense now.
Ivelisse (05:29):
So I loved it.
I loved the people.
And, I did everything thatthe legion asked me to do.
You know, say the rosaryand pray and, you know.
have a ministry.
Well, they didn't callit ministry then, but
you know, you have tohave an apostolate.
So, so that was myfirst experience.
And I thought, Oh,this is, I love this.
I really love this.
My parents didn't likeme going down there.
(05:50):
But I went with the nunsand the nuns didn't know
Spanish and we taughtthe Baltimore Catechism.
That's what we taught.
Katie (05:56):
huh.
huh.
Ivelisse (05:56):
So that was my first experience.
And then from then, whensummer came and we, you
know, as a junior and thenalso as a senior, I went
to, some friends of mine whoare still friends of mine.
They're wonderful people.
And, we went to, a PuertoRican order called the
Sisters of the Good Shepherd.
(06:17):
And they're not thesame as the Sisters of
the Good Shepherd herein the United States.
It's a local, canonical,religious congregation.
Like the Adrians.
Just in Puerto Rico.
Just in Puerto Rico.
Okay.
Just like theAdrians, a canonical
congregation.
Katie (06:29):
So you've done a little hopping.
Oh, yes.
Religious hopping.
Ivelisse (06:33):
I have.
And I have kept hopping.
[laughter].
So from there, I volunteeredto work with the pharmacist,
the one of the nunswas a pharmacist and I
work at the dispensaryand I loved it also.
I also loved it.
Anyway, so I went to theuniversity, finally I'm
going back to the university.
And then this friend ofmine, who is my bestest
(06:54):
friend from Puerto Rico.
Her name is Lucy.
She and another friend ofmine, who also was close,
we decided to make aretreat, a weekend retreat.
Oh my gosh.
I walk in there on a Fridaynight and I said, what
in the heck am I doinghere on a Friday night?
And I looked out the window.
the room is very bare, you know?
. And I look out the light andall the lights of the city.
What am I doing here?
(07:16):
Okay, well, so when I went,when I finished the retreat
on Sunday, that was Fridaynight when I finished
the retreat on Sunday.
The priest that led theretreat, who was a Jesuit, And
a well known Jesuit priest,said, well, what are you
going to do with your life?
Because part of theretreat, or the big part
of the retreat, was todiscern what you were
called to be in your life.
(07:38):
And so, you know, wereflected on the single life,
we reflected on religiouslife, and married life.
And so I decided it'sgoing to be religious life.
Katie (07:47):
Well, out of the Baltimore catechism, it's
the highest vocation.
Ivelisse (07:50):
Well, it's the perfect,
Katie (07:53):
yeah,
Ivelisse (07:53):
it's the perfect lifestyle,
Katie (07:54):
It sure is.
Ivelisse (07:55):
Supposedly.
So, so, you know, beingobsessive compulsive
that I am perfect justfit me really good.
Katie (08:04):
It would, you're right.
Ivelisse (08:07):
So I decided, after a little while, and of course
my parents were not veryhappy when I told them that
I wanted to be a, religious.
So they would notgive me permission.
I chose to, you know,I, I wanted to, I wrote
the prioress, right?
Yeah.
Katie (08:21):
Of which congregation now?
Ivelisse (08:23):
The Adrian Dominican Sisters.
Katie (08:24):
Okay, now we're going to a different one.
Okay.
Ivelisse (08:27):
No, that was just some experience
to get acquainted withthe poor and how to,
you Work with the poor.
Katie (08:32):
Right, right, right, right.
Ivelisse (08:34):
So then now I'm choosing to go to the
Adrian Dominican sisters.
And, I get on this plane.
I entered February 2nd comingfrom the tropics, Puerto Rico.
I had no idea
Katie (08:45):
presentation of the Lord, right?
Ivelisse (08:47):
Yes.
I had no idea where I was going.
I just knew he wasAdrian, Michigan, and they
were going to take me.
So some people, the nunsarranged for me to be taken
into Adrian from Detroit.
So, here I come on the 2ndof February to enter the
Adrian Dominican Sisters,and the group had already
entered in September.
(09:09):
I was late.
Oh, so I have areputation for being late.
Well, I was, so Iwas late to enter.
Katie (09:15):
So your crowd entered in September and you
came in February,
Ivelisse (09:18):
Right.
Because my parents didnot give me permission.
And I just thought thisdoesn't make sense.
How could I join areligious order without
the blessing of my parents?
Because blessing in PuertoRico is shared a lot.
You know, we bless peoplewhen we come into the house.
We bless people whenthey leave the house.
And I thought, itdoesn't make sense.
So I thought, well, I'll justwait, and I'm going to pray.
(09:40):
And I prayed, and oneday, I used to go to
Mass at the the CarmeliteCloister, from my home.
I could walk to it.
And I loved it.
It was really, it wasat six o'clock in the
morning, and I loved it.
Come back, we'requiet, you know.
And I come, and I have thisenvelope on the dining room
table, it's a letter from mydad giving me permission on
(10:01):
behalf of him and my mother.
And it was in November.
So then I wrote to Adrian,to the mother house, to
the prioress, and she said,we'll come in February.
So that's what happened.
Katie (10:13):
And when you arrived in Adrian, the booming
metropolis met you, right?
I mean,
Ivelisse (10:18):
well, anyway, it was.
Katie (10:20):
What year did you come?
Ivelisse (10:22):
1964.
Katie (10:24):
Yeah, so Adrian would have definitely had all that
it has to offer today andmore, I'm sure, at that point.
Ivelisse (10:30):
Well, you know what?
It didn't matter tome because I was in.
I could not, Ididn't know the city.
We didn't, I didn't go out.
Katie (10:38):
In all seriousness, though, wasn't the
motherhouse, prettydisconnected from
the actual community?
Ivelisse (10:44):
Mm hmm.
Oh, yes.
And, I mean, I justwent to the doctor.
I went to maybe get someshoes or something like that.
Right.
But it was, I was confinedto living at the mother house.
Katie (10:54):
To the hill.
Right.
The hill.
Ivelisse (10:56):
But anyway, and then we don't talk,
so it was hard to evenget to know the people.
Katie (10:59):
Oh, you mean once you entered, you couldn't talk.
Sacred silence.
Yep.
Ivelisse (11:03):
And the following day from my entrance, I went
to, to class at Siena Heights.
I went to a class.
Katie (11:08):
So you entered and the next
day you were in classesat Siena Heights.
Ivelisse (11:12):
My bachelor was going to be in
Spanish and English.
And so the first class Iattended at Siena Heights
was English literature.
Katie (11:19):
Spanish and English, but you're a
native Spanish speaker?
Okay.
Ivelisse (11:23):
Well, that was interesting.
That was interesting becausethey gave me, I went to
the Spanish class and theygave me this tape so that I
could record and practice.
Katie (11:30):
Well, 1964 was very different.
So let's just.
Ivelisse (11:34):
The book that we were reading, it was on
this, on the left was Englishon the right was Spanish.
And I was supposed topractice every day and
tape what I practice.
I did it for a little while.
But so then the congregationdecided to help me with
majoring in Spanish andmade arrangements for a
professor from the universityin Santo Domingo, Dominican
(11:55):
Republic, to teach Spanish.
And he taught three of usthat were majoring in Spanish.
Katie (12:00):
Oh.
Were any, were anybody elsewho was majoring in Spanish
a native Spanish speaker?
Ivelisse (12:06):
Actually, yes.
The three of us were.
The three of us were.
Katie (12:10):
The irony of this whole thing.
Ivelisse (12:12):
And it took place on two summers and
the classes were superb.
I mean, this wasa real professor.
Katie (12:18):
Oh, good.
Ivelisse (12:18):
So I majored in Spanish, I graduated,
didn't attend my graduation.
I haven't attended anygraduations except the high
school graduation because Iwas at a distance, you know.
Katie (12:27):
Well, how long were you in the congregation?
Ivelisse (12:30):
30 years.
Katie (12:31):
You're no longer in the congregation.
How long have you been out?
Ivelisse (12:35):
I was in for 30 years and I've
been out for 30 years.
Katie (12:39):
We're not going to do the math on your age.
That's just mean.
But
Ivelisse (12:42):
well, I was 19 when I entered.
Katie (12:44):
Yeah.
Ivelisse (12:45):
You know, so 20 years, I'm 80 now.
Katie (12:48):
Yes.
So you've been out almostas long as you were in.
But my question is like,after 30 years, What
makes you decide to leavewhat you've always known?
Ivelisse (13:01):
My experience as a religious, I was very happy.
I did not leave becauseI didn't like it
or it was too hard.
That was not the reason.
I left it because Ihad questions about
the institution.
I have been a member of theinstitution of the church
since I was baptized, Andso to belong to another
institution didn't maketoo much sense to me.
(13:23):
And there were a few PuertoRicans in the congregation,
although that doesn't,none of that stuff matters.
Ultimately, Katie, andpeople can believe it or not.
I know the truth is within me.
it was a choice of faith.
I only had one brother,my, he was my brother,
but also my best friend.
And he became ill withmultiple sclerosis, and I
(13:46):
saw how his life evolvedwith his condition.
And the congregationwas wonderful to me.
They let me come and visithim two or three times a
year for several years.
I will always be gratefulfor that because,
I just loved him.
He's one of the peoplein my life that He will
always be with me and I'mlooking forward to, to
embrace him at some pointin my life or my afterlife.
(14:08):
So anyway, I saw how helived his life and what
happened in his life andhow he lost everything.
He was married, had two sons.
He lost everything.
he ended up by not being ableto speak, not able to move,
not able to feed himself.
He depended foreverything in his life.
And, in the end.
I saw during those yearsthat he ended up in a
(14:29):
nursing home at some pointbecause taking care of him
was very difficult for hiswife with two children.
And so I even went to PuertoRico at that time and went
with her for that decision.
It was not easy, verydifficult, very painful.
but he was very brave andhe, he understood and he
was willing to do thatbecause he loved his wife.
(14:52):
He was the love of hislife and, the two sons,
he did that for them.
When he died, and evenduring the time that he
was in the nursing home,I met some of his friends
and, and what they did forhim and how they were with
him and how many people hetouched, even from a deathbed.
Remember I said I,I was always happy
(15:13):
in the congregation.
I had wonderful,beautiful experiences,
very powerful experiencesof the church itself.
But I thought, my brotherdidn't have any of that.
When he passed, I knewthat he was going to die.
I could tell.
I just saw him aweek before he died.
But being me, I had to goback to my job in Grand
(15:33):
Rapids at that time.
And so I left and justwithin one week I got a call.
I had not even emptiedmy suitcase yet because
I went right intowork when I came back.
And they called me andthey said he was probably
going to pass that day.
And I was able tospeak with him.
He couldn't talk, buthe could listen to me.
And I was able toto speak with him.
(15:56):
So I'm very grateful for that.
And so I justthought, God loves me.
And I want to growin God's love.
Why not?
I mean, if I have faith,I know that God will
take care of me and Godwill not abandon me.
So that has always beenpart of me and I have had
difficult situations, butI have also have some very
meaningful experiences.
(16:17):
When I said some of theexperiences have been, I
was able to visit Africaand get to know people that
had just been Catholic formaybe 35, 50 years, brand
new Christians in Africa.
And, that was powerful.
That was a powerfulexperience for me.
And I visited, four countries.
I was in the IvoryCoast, I was in Zambia,
(16:38):
Malawi, and Ghana.
I have learned a lotabout seeing how people
respond to faith.
My experience with thesisters, in growing up and
being taught by them, I alwayshad a, gratefulness because I
thought, gosh, these people,they left their family, they
left their culture, theyleft their friends so that
(17:00):
I could learn about Jesus.
I could learn about God.
So, that was always somethingthat, that I considered a
very special gift that I hadreceived from these people.
And one of the reasonsI wanted to be a nun
was because I wanted tonot have them do that.
But then I didn't end upworking in Puerto Rico.
So I worked elsewhere.
I worked in theDominican Republic.
I went to also the Bahamas,that we had sisters in the
(17:22):
Bahamas I worked with thesisters that were in the
Philippines at a distance, Andnow, why did I come to Adrian?
I mean, after all this year,after 30 years, I mean, I'm
out and I come back to Adrian.
Katie (17:32):
Yeah.
There's some ironyin this, right?
Like, I don't want to be a partof the community, but I am.
Ivelisse (17:39):
Well.
And what happened was Ilost one of my closest
friends through that.
I thought, well nowwhat, because this
person really helped megrow as a human person.
And she was not a nun,but she was a believer.
She was very much awareof God in her life.
And so I learned a lot fromher about, she's not a nun,
(18:02):
she's not, you know, but shehad a love for scripture.
And she got, she, she studiedtheology and then when she
did that, she didn't wantto be a pastor or a minister
in a church, so then shewent to study social work.
And that's how we met, becausewe were social workers.
Katie (18:16):
Okay.
Ivelisse (18:16):
after she passed, I thought, now where do I go?
So my first thought was,I'll return to Puerto Rico.
And it didn't seemlike I could do it
there, financially, Ijust couldn't do it.
So I came back.
I lived in Flushing for20 years and I lived there
for a year trying to figureout what to do with myself.
And two sisters foundme, two sisters found me.
(18:38):
And actually, it wasinteresting how I met
them because it was myfriend's brother who told
me he had a good friend.
So he said, my friendtold me that there's a
sister in Flushing and Ijoined Dominican sister
in Flushing and, thatthere are two of them.
He said, you can call them.
I said, well, I don't know them.
I really, the namesdidn't ring, you know?
(19:00):
So, so then on aThanksgiving of 2021.
Pat McGee calls me and shecalled me and she said,
you know, Theresa Mayran.
We'd like to inviteyou for Thanksgiving.
I said, oh, okay.
I still don't knowwho Pat McGee is.
So, so I said, oh,that would be nice.
That would be really nice.
Then there had been sometime passed and so I found
(19:21):
out that Pat McGee and Iwere in the same crowd.
Katie (19:24):
Ooh! But she had entered in
September, you in February.
Ivelisse (19:27):
Right.
So I didn't know herwell, but I remember.
her name.
Anyway, they kept saying,you know, what do you
think about Adrian?
And I thought, no.
Once there, I keep moving.
I don't move back.
You know, we're like,that's not true.
I have moved back.
Katie (19:44):
Yeah.
Ivelisse (19:44):
But you know what?
I know so many of the sistersand so many of the sisters
know me and they're wonderful.
They're very loving,they have received me,
they have welcomed me inthe community, you know,
in the broad community.
So I visit them on and off,and they're there for me
if I want to or need them.
(20:06):
And then I also rememberthat I had a wonderful
experience here at St.
Mary's.
Katie (20:11):
Right.
So
Ivelisse (20:13):
because I worked here.
Katie (20:14):
Yes.
So, Victor Solis.
Ivelisse (20:18):
Yes.
Katie (20:19):
Will talk about Sister Ivie all the time.
And I'm just like, no,I don't know who you're
talking about, Victor.
I'm not that old.
And, and reallythat's what it is.
But he talks about this.
Oh, Sister Ivie in meetings,you know, and then all of
a sudden Sister Ivie popsup and I'm like, wait,
but I don't think so.
And, then it's stillSister Ivie in his world.
(20:41):
But, yeah, you're not, no.
Ivelisse (20:44):
Well, you know, I never, during my whole life
growing up, my family and Idid not belong to a parish.
St.
Mary's was my firstexperience as a parish.
And then I worked hereas an Pastoral Associate
with three Oblates.
Katie (21:00):
And ironically, you're back here working,
in many capacities, as avolunteer, at Holy Family.
Ivelisse (21:09):
And actually, this place, this new
building, there used tobe a convent here, and
I used to live there.
Katie (21:17):
Oh, well, we could arrange so
you live here again.
Ivelisse (21:20):
The building that was destroyed.
I used to live there.
Katie (21:23):
we could arrange for you to live here again.
There's plenty of things to do.
Ivelisse (21:28):
Anyway, I am very happy.
And I know that I tellmy family that they may
not understand, because Ihave a very small family.
I have two nephews.
I have one cousin, one aunt,and that's about it as far
as family is concerned.
So they may notunderstand, but, I feel
like I have come home becauseI left my home for
(21:49):
another home and I'm back.
So that makes me feellike I have come around
full circle.
So I don't know how longI'll be here until the
Lord lets me know thatI need to be elsewhere.
I'm here, open ended.
And it might not be toolong because I'm 80 years
old, but for whatever lengthit is, it'll be my home.
(22:10):
And I love the people.
I really, I love, I thinkthe culture, the similarities
in culture has really,has helped me integrate.
Katie (22:18):
One thing that, I think is very interesting
is that you have had a lotof connections to help guide
you through your transition.
You have your family in PuertoRico, but then when you left
Adrian, you still kept incontact with some Adrian.
And when you left St.
Mary of Good Counsel,you still kept in contact
with people from St.
(22:38):
Mary of Good Counsel.
So connection has been a veryintegral part of your life.
So my question is, why?
Ivelisse (22:46):
And I think I may have told you one day,
if you become my friendand I become your friend,
you're my friend for life.
And so, you know, I havea chat group with my
high school graduates.
I'm in contact with them.
I don't participate a lot,but I know what's going on.
And that connectsme with Puerto Rico.
And they are a veryspecial group of
people, and we think so.
(23:08):
We're very
Katie (23:11):
Humility is not a virtue we're practicing.
Okay, got it.
Ivelisse (23:15):
Well, the people in my class are really special.
They really are.
It's unbelievable howChrist centered they are.
And that's somethingthat I share.
That is my connection.
I think I meet peoplethat are Christ
centered, they love God.
These people, they helpwith prayers and otherwise
continually in the chats,they share what, how they're
(23:37):
sharing and helping otherpeople that need prayers.
Whether it's illnesses orjob seeking or whatever,
they're there for them.
Katie (23:45):
Was that instrumental in your decision to leave
the congregation because yourbaptismal promise that was
made is, as a laywoman, nearlythe same as your community
in a religious community?
You take vows, right,but everything that's
instituted by the churchoccurs at baptism.
Ivelisse (24:06):
That's right.
To me, having beenbaptized was it.
And I think that religiouslife, or even now, my
single life, is an addition.
It's an addition to help yougrow in faith and community.
when I left, I was clear aboutnot wanting to get married
because I just thought ifI get married, I'm going
to be, which is not truebecause I have friends that
(24:28):
have a wonderful ministeriallife along with their
marriage life, you know?
But at that time, that's whatI thought, that I would just
concentrate on my family.
And I would be limited in howI can reach out to others.
And so this has freed me.
My life has freed meto relate to whoever.
I go down the street andI think, pay attention
(24:49):
because this personis, is another Jesus.
Katie (24:52):
There's freedom within not being called
to a specific vocation.
Ivelisse (24:57):
And I don't have a middle name either.
You know, so, butI am confirmed.
I think I have a simple life.
I don't have vows, butI live as if I did.
Katie (25:06):
I think the number one vow would
just be obedience, right?
Those others, I think,flow from obedience.
Ivelisse (25:14):
Exactly.
Katie (25:14):
The vow of poverty is like where you spend
your time and money.
And that is certainlywho's number one?
And that's all obedience is.
And so that's what I thinkis important is that we
remember that we've allhave that call to obedience
by virtue of baptism andstrengthened in confirmation.
Ivelisse (25:32):
And I love that.
When I made vows, Ithought, this is brilliant.
Because I have beenable to continue that.
It's God's will.
Where is God's will for me?
What is it thatGod wants me to do?
That I consider that aspart of decision making.
Katie (25:45):
You can't do a good discernment without
considering, right?
I think you can in terms ofwhat you want, but discernment
should be what God wantsand then how that
fits into my plan.
It's interesting thatthe institutions that
we talk about, they'realmost like silos.
And the better question is howdo they interact better than
(26:09):
just being individual silos.
Ivelisse (26:11):
To tell you the truth, I just don't see that
much difference between thesisters that I befriend now.
Even though I'm not part ofthe community, but I don't
know that much difference.
I mean we suffer, welaugh, we dance, we, we
go places, we have fun.
Different interests.
I just don't see thatthere's that much difference.
They see it fromtheir perspective.
(26:32):
They do see that there'sa difference, but I don't.
And so, that helps me tobe free relating to them.
Katie (26:40):
What difference do they see?
Ivelisse (26:42):
Well, I think it's their commitment to community.
Katie (26:46):
Although, I think you've proven commitment to
your community in terms ofyour people that you relate
to By coming back to Adrianand reuniting with some of
them and keeping your chatgroup going all of these
different things, there'sthe commitment to community.
It's just a different community.
It's not a structuredcommunity, but I think
(27:08):
it's your community.
And I think that there arestill vows taken within that.
If something happened,you would be right
there to do whatever youcould to assist them.
And that's essentiallywhat is called upon.
Ivelisse (27:19):
That's well-stated.
Katie (27:21):
Well, it's fascinating, right?
When you talk about differentvocations, I equally think
the vocation of singlehood isnot really spoken about well.
And one of the things youkept saying repeatedly
today, which I appreciateis the freedom to do what
God's calling you to do.
And sometimes there can beconstraints on that, whether
that be a religious communityor marriage and children.
(27:44):
And so you are free toliterally say, when you said,
I walked down the streetand say, okay, God, because
there's not a constrainton where your money can go
or your time and talent.
Ivelisse (27:55):
that is so very true.
There's a freedom connectedto God and how God manifests
God's presence through theHoly Spirit in our lives.
And so it's not that I don'tget lonely and it's not that
I don't sometimes I get sad.
I mean, it's not like I'mhappy go lucky the whole,
my whole life, everysingle day, but it's a life
that I'm following God.
(28:15):
It's Jesus.
I walk behind Jesus.
Jesus leads me where I go.
Katie (28:19):
It's that divine mercy thing, Jesus, I trust in you.
And for those momentswhen it's not a bed
of roses, let's say.
What gets you throughthose moments?
Ivelisse (28:30):
Well, gratefulness.
Gratefulness.
And I'm growing in that andI'm beginning to grow in
gratefulness, understandingthat, even in suffering,
there's a purpose tosuffering and something
that I can learn from it.
And if I focus ongratefulness, I may
learn what the sufferingis trying to teach me.
And so I find that as asource of growth within
(28:52):
me that sustains me andit just changes my whole
attitude to suffering.
I used to feel that,oh, and I have had this
terrible experience.
My mother died suddenly.
That was a terribleloss when it happened.
At that time I was blessedwith knowing that God allowed
it because it would have beenworse for her to stay alive.
(29:12):
She died of, she died suddenlyof a malignant brain tumor.
So, now looking back,I think, well, I was
grateful at the time, andI didn't even know that it
was called gratefulness.
So, we learn even fromthe difficulties and the
hardships, I can learn,and I have learned, and I
would continue to learn.
Not that it's going tobe easy when it happens,
(29:35):
it's never easy, but theword gratefulness has just
expanded my heart like.
Mmm.
Katie (29:42):
Well, and joy.
Joy is not happiness,but it's being able to
embrace what comes andstill be content with that.
I just want to thank youfor joining us today.
I know, you're the originalnun chief spy and we are
forever grateful for that one.
But, for really comingtoday and really sharing
(30:03):
your heart with us.
Ivelisse (30:05):
Thank you, Katie.
it's been a wonderfulexperience and I'm happy
that I can share this withthe other parishioners
that may be able to listento it and help me grow.
You know, we're together.
We're together on thisand we need each other.
Katie (30:18):
Forward Together.
That's the name ofthe discipleship
plan for the parish.
Forward Together.
Forward Together.
Amen.
Praise the Lord.
Once again, we thank youfor joining us today.
We hope that wherever youfind an open seat in your
life, you will invitesomeone to join you.
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