February 7, 2025 • 26 mins
This week on Open Seat, Mike Towler shares his inspiring journey of finding the love of his life unexpectedly, discovering a new career in dentistry, and embracing a deep connection with the Catholic Faith. Mike and his wife, Jodi, serve in the Marriage Ministry at Holy Family Parish, guiding engaged couples in meaningful conversations about faith as they prepare for marriage. Mike also reflects on the importance of living a sacramental life—putting God first in marriage, raising children in the faith, and nurturing a love for the Eucharist, Mass, and Reconciliation.
This is a podcast of Holy Family Parish, located in Adrian MI. We are a Catholic people, not a place, striving to Live Jesus through celebrating the sacraments and forming disciples in Adrian and beyond.
www.HolyFamilyAdrian.org
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Facebook: Facebook.com/adrianCatholic
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@holyfamilyadrian
Open Seat es un podcast Parroquia de la Sagrada Familia ubicada en Adrian, Michigan. Somos un pueblo católico, no un lugar, que se esfuerza por vivir a Jesús celebrando los sacramentos y formando discípulos en Adrian y más allá.
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Mike (00:00):
She is definitely the strength.
behind everything I do.
She's been, is a wonderful wife,has been and is
a wonderful mother.
She has a masters in social workBut she gave that up
to raise our children.
and so that was, that's howimportant the family was to
her and she's done a great job.
Plus, I'm her long term socialwork project so she's still
working on her thesis there.
Katie (00:21):
Welcome to Open Seat, the podcast where we
create a space for authenticconversations about faith,
unfiltered and unapologetic.
Here, we believe thatevery story matters.
Whether you're questioning,seeking, or steadfast in
your beliefs, you'll findsomething relatable in
these heartfelt discussions.
(00:42):
So grab your seat, getcomfortable, and let's dive
into today's story here atOpen Seat.
Well, welcome to the Open Seattoday, Mr. Dr. Michael Towler.
Which name do youprefer to go by with?
Mike (01:00):
Mike, is fine.
Katie (01:01):
So, Mike, why don't you tell us a
little bit about yourself?
Okay.
I'm one of two childrenin my family
and, I guess my story that I'dlike to share would probably
start with where Iwent after high school.
in high school, confidencewas not a problem for me.
I was overly confident,more than I should be.
And I was the king ofmy little small world and
(01:23):
just thought I had allthe answers.
Andso, life started to humble me
when my father passed awaywhen I was 19, college became
quite difficult, and I givecredit to my mom for Raising
us Catholic, but like a lotof kids, I fell away from the
church when I was younger.
And, I just was searchingfor answers.
And so, you know, I alwaysbelieve God just wants the
(01:45):
window cracked.
If we're open to anythingthat He wants to give us.
He will always find a way in.
And so, when I was in college,I wasn't really going to mass.
wasn't practicing the faith butI did pray every night,
and so that was thelittle window that God was
looking for.
Mike (02:01):
I just knew that He existed, I just didn't have
the connection thatI would have liked.
And so I juststarted to think about where I
wanted to gowith my life, and, having
a family was reallyimportant to me, and I just
made a decision thatI wasn't going to date
anymore, just to date,I was going to date to
try to hopefully find myfuture wife.
Little did I know my futurewife was going through the
(02:23):
same thing.
She was tired of dating justto date, and so she started
praying as well and we're bothindividually praying about
who we wanted to find.
And,
Katie (02:32):
Did you pray, like, any novenas or anything?
Any specific?
Mike (02:35):
I really didn't know to do that at the time.
I just would read the Bible.
I left out reading the Bible.
I'd read the Bible and pray.
Just start talking.
Open seat with God.
Katie (02:46):
Yeah.
Mike (02:47):
In any, in any event, I was getting ready to graduate
with my engineeringdegree from U of M and
I was at a party witha friend and she was just
we were talking aboutwhere we wanted to go
in life and somehow wegot in the subject of the
kind of woman I washoping to meet and she said,
I have a friend justlike that someone she
went to high school with.
And this friend of oursneeded help moving, as a lot of
(03:08):
college kids do.
So I was at her house helpingher move, and my beautiful
wife walked in the roomand my jaw just dropped, and
I just, I just knew, it wasliterally, there was no
doubt, I think she's a veryattractive woman, but it
was more her smile,and she's just, it was just, I
just, she had this piece abouther and I just, I
just knew she wasthe one, and I went from
(03:30):
being very skeptical,like I don't want to,
date anybody toI'm madly in love
with this woman,which was kind of scary.
Within two weeks, I wanted topropose to
her and the engineer inme said, that's
insane, you don't do that.
So I held out and waited sixweeks, I was really proud of
myself.
We were engaged fora year, so we got to
know each other, butthere was some nervousness
(03:50):
in my family, like,what are you doing?
You don't know this person.
But we hadboth been praying intensely.
And the conversationswe had for the year we
were engaged wasall about how we wanted
to raise kids, what we wantedout of life, what
our faith meant to us.
And when the two of us just grewin faith together.
And so, we are goingto be celebrating this
coming year our 30thanniversary.
Katie (04:12):
Aww, congratulations.
Saint Jodi.
Mike (04:15):
Well, she loves when you call her that.
Katie (04:17):
I know, but really.
Mike (04:21):
She is definitely the strength.
behind everything I do.
She's been, is a wonderfulwife, has been and is
a wonderful mother.
She hasa masters in social work and she
really enjoyed what shewas doing.
But she gave that upto raise our children.
and so that was, that's howimportant the family was to
her and she's done a great job.
Plus, I'm her long term socialwork project so she's still
(04:42):
working on her thesis there.
Katie (04:44):
And, That does happen, you know.
Mike (04:46):
But where, this is going, we've
always, we've grown in faithtogether, my wife has been a big
inspiration for mein terms of, she was
not Catholic to begin,she converted, became Catholic,
and I learned a lot moreabout her faith from
her and her journey, andwe just, we put God first
in our marriage, she'llbe the first to tell
(05:07):
you that, He never gets in theway because we both do that, But
if I were ever tosay like, I don't feel
like going to church,I'm tired, she wouldn't
say, oh, you know,you should get a break today.
She'd say, no, get your butt up.
You gotta go to church
Katie (05:19):
Well, there is one thing that I
remember recently youhad a spill on a bike.
And so, We're both in theactivity center watching
Mass, and you're like, oh,I just have to walk around
for Mass today.
It's so uncomfortable to sit.
I envisioned she probably waslike that day, get up, go.
You were lucky youonly ended up with a
couple bruises, Mike.
Yeah.
Mike (05:38):
But We, we've always had a wonderful marriage
people say marriageis work and, and it's
true, but I don't meanthat in a negative connotation.
It's a work in thatyou have to invest your
time effort, love intoit which we've both done.
I mean, I'm selfish youprobably more than most
people, but I don'tspend a lot of time thinking
about what I need.
I think I try tothink about what she
(05:59):
needs because I knowshe's always looking out for
me and what I need as well.
Which is really a peacefulplace to be.
Our marriage justgets stronger as time, goes on.
we're very proudof our three children
that we've raised.
our youngest just leftfor college, so we're
in this weirdempty nester phase.
And I've heard a lotof people struggle because
the kids move out andthey're like, Who are you?
(06:19):
Getting to knoweach other again.
And for us, it's just,I mean, we miss our kids, but
we're loving it.
It's like we're dating again.
So, We've had ups and downs inour marriage, that
we've always gottenthrough together.
one was about17 years into my career.
the 2008 crisis happenedand engineering and
(06:41):
automotive was lookinglike it might not exist anymore.
and so I just started thinkingand praying, like, what
am I going to do going forward?
And, part of me thoughtI'd just kind of weather
out the storm, see what happens.
And then I juststarted thinking more about
just changing careers.
I was praying aboutit, of course.
And at this point, I'mdefinitely saying novenas.
I'm a huge fan of not only ofMass, but Going to adoration
(07:05):
and I'm really bad atsitting still I just would tell
myself even anygo for five minutes
and I would just sit there.
And then five minutes turn intoten and then ten turned into
twenty andI just would like Stare at the
tabernacle
Katie (07:16):
at the
Mike (07:16):
Eucharist and just Monstrance and just ask God what
do you want me to do?
It was, it wasn't what I want.
I would just always ask.
What do you want?
What do you want?
And I guess I didn't feel like Igot hit over the head
with an answer, butyou just find yourself
gravitating to a certain path.
And so I was getting my teethcleaned one day, talking to my
dentist about what I wanted todo and he said,
(07:39):
what do you like?
I said, I don't know.
I like working with my hands.
I like using my brain.
I like working with people,And he said, well, you
ought to be a dentist.
And I kind of laughed and Ithought about it and I said,
you know, maybe I should.
I was at work, it was a Friday.
And I went online and I knewnothing about dentistry, and
I just googled dental schools.
I didn't know where they were.
I found out there was twoin Michigan.
And then I found out that Uof M had an open house once a
(08:01):
year, and it was the next day.
Katie (08:03):
Oh!
Mike (08:04):
I said, okay, well this is something I should
probably go take a look at.
So I get home that night,and told my wife, you know, I
think I want to be adentist and she was like
immediately supportive,she just, she didn't worry
about not having a paycheckor how we're going to make it.
She said, we'll make it.
we'll get through it.
So I wentthere the next day and I'm
standing in the back of theroom and I'm talking to
this lady next to me about myage and she says, which one
(08:26):
of these are your kid?
And I said, well, I'm the kid.
I'm thinkingabout going to dental school.
And she said,Oh, and she started
talking to me andasking about me.
And I didn't know who she was.
So, I'm just beinghonest with her about
my life and whatI'm trying hoping
to do And she'slooked at me, she
said you should apply.
Well, she was the directorof admissions, which I
didn't know.
Katie (08:43):
Ah!
Mike (08:44):
So, I Think she remembered that conversation
because she knew that Iwas being genuine.
So
Katie (08:50):
And about how old were you when you switched?
Mike (08:52):
I Started dental school at 39. so probably 38
when I I was at that meeting.
And, so I entered, Kidsimmediately called me.
pops, made fun of me,that was always fun.
I remember the firsttest I took, a
kid turned around and hesaid, are you going
to get your abacus out for
Katie (09:08):
[Laughter] You're like, no, but I rode the
dinosaur here, right?
It
Mike (09:14):
a little intimidating at first because, Part
that I left off is howmuch preparation had to go into
getting ready for dental school.
I knew nothingabout the process.
There's a test that youhave to take.
I had to study like mad fortwo and a half months,
I mean literally nonstop to even pass it.
I ended up doing quite wellthrough a lot of prayer our
kids were going to SpiritusSanctus in Ann Arbor,
(09:34):
the Dominican Sisters of Mary,And I had all those
sisters praying.
I mean, there wasprayer everywhere.
I was not shy about askingfor prayers,
Katie (09:41):
And were you working still at
the same time as going toschool?
Mike (09:44):
So basically my day then was I would
go to work and thingswere slow 'cause the
way the automotive industry was.
and My boss basically said,if you get your work
done, you know, study.
I would study wheneverI could at work.
I'd get home, have dinner withthe kids, pour a pot of coffee.
I'd study till I couldn'tStay awake anymore, usually
well past midnight.
Did this for twoand a half months.
(10:05):
They said youshould take a couple
practice tests.
I probably took 20.
I mean, I just figuredrepetition.
I had to do organicchemistry on this test,
which I hadn't had in 17 years.
Through the grace of God,I actually, that was my best
score on the test.
And my lowest score wassomething I was really good at.
So I think that was God humblingme.
But, That all worked out.
So I got into dentalschool and at first it
(10:25):
was very intimidatingbecause these kids
were like, the best of thebest in terms of smartness,
and they were just comingout of college.
and so, dental school startswith very academic,
very biochemistry driven, and Ijust was like
treading water justtrying to get good grades.
It was so hard.
and then usuallyabout halfway through
dental school, you get intothe clinical part where it's all
(10:46):
about effort and that's whenPops showed them a
thing about working, Iactually, that was the part
where I really took offand finally, got
my confidence upand I practiced in Metro
Detroit, because that'swhere we were living at
the time.
And I was looking allover the state to buy a
practice.
We were trying tostay in the area just
for our kids, forcontinuity, we had a lot
of friends there.
Katie (11:07):
Are you from that area?
that area?
Mike (11:08):
So I'm actually from Ann Arbor.
Yeah.
And, Jodi's from the Lansingarea She's a Spartan, converted
Wolverine her Master'sdegree, so.
Katie (11:18):
Well, thank goodness somebody was
saved through this process.
Mike (11:21):
I root for Michigan State every game but one, so
I think that's pretty good.
I was lookingfor practices all over the state
And we actually almost boughta practice in Holland, Michigan.
And that's where I wassupposed to end up.
I mean, it waslike, literally the rug
was pulled out at the lastminute and that's a story
for another podcast,a long podcast.
But, this broker I wasworking with said, I
(11:43):
just got this listing.
This is a great practice.
You've got to check this out.
Do you know where Adrian is?
Actually, I do.
Becausewhen I played football in Ann
Arbor, we wonthe state championship and
we almost didn't make itbecause of this difficult,
good team in Adrianthat we played.
And that was a long time ago.
So I had been hereonce or twice.
I'd been to the lakesaround here.
(12:05):
So let's give it a try.
And, I really like being here.
I liked it right away.
It was a littleadjustment for the family being
more rural.
but Jody loves it here.
We love it here.
My oldest daughter wentto Lenawee Christian.
she met her husband there.
They got marriedthree years ago.
So, God worksin mysterious ways.
So She found her husbandhere and my son
(12:26):
had a great experiencethere as well.
you never know wherelife's going to take
you, but ourplan is to make this our home.
and Wehave no plans to go anywhere.
Katie (12:33):
Yeah, I, I think, anytime you switch
paths, it doesn't matterif it's a career, or a
place of livingit's all chaos for a
while, right?
And So, have things kindof settled down a little?
Mike (12:45):
I'm glad you led me there.
St. Jodi is, uh,she just said, we're
going to make this work.
unfortunately when she got hermaster's degree in social
work, you could justpractice right away.
And then, by the time Iwas going to dental school,
they had all these newrequirements where you
had to get licensingand basically all
this, these hours she wouldhave to work to even be able
to practice, even though shecould have done that when she
(13:07):
graduated.
So we decided that wasn'ta good path to go.
She opened up a daycareout of her house, which was,
I don't know how she did it.
She did it every day.
She would raise our kids.
She wouldbring kids into the daycare,
and whenever I would get down ordiscouraged about the
challenges I was dealingwith with school,
she would always lift me up.
I can't emphasizeenough the strength and
(13:28):
calmness thatshe brought, and she would
probably tell you she wasyelling at the
kids all the time,but she wasn't.
She was a greatsource of strength
for our family.
Mike Towler (13:36):
family.
Katie (13:37):
So do do you pray for eachother?
Mike (13:41):
Absolutely.
We Pray for each other.
We pray together every night.
I love reading.
Most of what I read is about ourfaith, I don't read as
much as I'd like, butwhen I do, I want to
read about our faith.
And I like to learn, butI always remind myself
to keep it simple.
It's all about the sacraments,you know, going to
reconciliation, going toMass, great book that I
love, the Lamb's Supperwith Scott Hahn about
(14:03):
the Mass is literally heaventouching down on earth.
I mean, there's no timewhere we can receive God
more than at Mass.
And, I just think as Catholicsif we could just keep it simple
and frequent the sacramentsand, practice love, God is love.
Of course, I try to be love.
I don't always succeed.
I had a,what should be an obvious
revelation only a fewyears ago, I was
(14:23):
just thinking aboutmy relationship with God and
how I sin when I don't want to.
And Ijust started comparing that
to my relationship with my wife,who I've always loved
and never wanted to hurt.
And I just, it just dawned onme, like, I think we
often think God is so lovingand forgiving, I
can do these things.
and He'll get over it.
He'll forgive me.
But then I thoughtmy wife is very loving and very
(14:43):
forgiving what if I wenthome every day and
did bad things toher disrespected her, And
knowing that she wouldput up with it And
love me and forgive me.
Why would I do that?
I wouldn't sowhy would things be
any different with Godever since that
obvious thing kind ofEnded up on my heart.
I've just always thought aboutthat whenever
temptation arises to justremember that.
Katie (15:04):
That's a really deep revelation
and I think that notmany people would put
that correlation together
Mike (15:10):
Well, it's the grace of god.
It really is.
Katie (15:13):
Is that the kind of wisdom you
share in marriage prep?
Because I know you two areleading that ministry.
Mike (15:19):
So it was something that Deacon Len
was glad to have us takeover, and it was almost
like, here you go, good luck.
No, he was helpful.
it was a littleintimidating for us at first,
but we've, wehave great couples that
go on through the program.
They teach you with the trainingthat you're more a facilitator.
Your goal is toget the couple talking.
And as we always say,we're not here to judge.
We're not here really togive advice.
(15:41):
We might say some things.
The goal here is we bringthings up and the two of you,
you should even belooking at each other
and just talking and we're justfacilitating the conversation.
So, that took a lotof weight off for us
because we thoughtwe were supposed to come in and
give all this expert advice.
Katie (15:55):
Save all these marriages,
Mike (15:56):
But we've had great couples and I feel Jodi
does a great job andI think I'm doing pretty well.
But we do try to give someadvice from time to time
just about putting God firstand then putting your marriage
second and then puttingyour children third, which
surprises a lot of people.
This doesn't meanthat one party in
this gets neglected.
If you put Godfirst, that drives
(16:17):
the marriage and keeps it ontrack.
And then if the marriageis good, it keeps how you raise
your kids on track.
kids are, they're manipulators,you tell one kid, no,
they're going to go to theother parent.
Well, what do you think?
And so, you know, justhaving a common understanding
of how we want to raiseour kids, the message
that we give them, sharingour faith together.
We both of coursealways go to Mass
(16:37):
unless we're sickand the kids know that
if you're living in thishouse, you're going to go to
Mass.
And so it's, that'sbeen, a struggle at times, but
they go and I knowit's planting seeds
because it planted seedsfor me too when I fell
away from the church.
Katie (16:50):
Were you instrumental in your wife
converting to Catholicism?
Mike (16:54):
So I fell away from the church and I
wasn't going to Mass anymore.
And then I think because weprayed so
much and we were very muchinto bringing God into our
marriage, but we didn'tknow how to do that.
And so we started going todifferent churches because Jodi
was, she had gone to a fewchurches, but
different Protestant churches.
And so we went to someof those, went to the
(17:14):
Catholic church and thenunfortunately, the
Catholic church, wewent just to look at it
from a secular perspective.
It wasn't very interesting.
And so we were talkingabout that and I made that
comment too.
That was kind of boring,frankly, but I just
said somethingthat is so obvious.
I'm embarrassed to even say it.
Like something's missing.
I didn't know what it was.
And I just realized it's theEucharist and so I
(17:37):
told Jodi what theEucharist meant
to me and to Catholics.
And it was somethingthat I think she found
on her own,whether or not she wanted
to do it because I was Catholic,I don't know, but I
wasn't really practicing.
So I think it was somethingthat she just found on
her own through prayerand, it was revealed to her.
And then she entered RCIA andthat was right around the time
(17:57):
our daughter was born.
So it was
Katie (17:59):
25 years ago.
So it was after you got married?
Mike (18:02):
After we got married, Yep.
We love our faith.
And life is good.
good
Katie (18:06):
Am I correct that your daughter's husband
has now converted?
Mike (18:10):
Yes, he did.
Yeah.
And I would say thesame thing with him.
That was somethingour daughter, our kids all have
different strengthsand different gifts.
That was a gift ourdaughter always had,
is she always loved our faith.
She's had that ever since shewas a little girl.
And when he asked for herhand, which I thought that was
really, nice of him to do.
I didn't want to lecture,but that is one thing I
(18:30):
brought up, is do you plan toraise your kids Catholic?
I didn't ask if hewas going to convert,
because that's nota requirement, but
of course we doask that if you marry,
that you raise your kidsCatholic he said, absolutely.
So I think he foundthat through himself.
He's a very prayerful,smart guy, maybe
you'll have him on, hecan tell his story, but yeah.
Katie (18:48):
I think though that's the struggle,
sometimes, because even inin baptism,
you say, I'll raise my childCatholic, but what does
that mean?
How do you do that, know?
And so, if you have people fromdifferent belief systems
that can be really tricky tonavigate.
Mike (19:03):
Right, absolutely.
Katie (19:04):
So that's why I wondered like at what
point jodi converted.
Cause when you weretalking about, you had
these conversations duringengagement period
where you were talkingabout how you want
your kids to be raisedand stuff.
I just wondered ifthat ever came up where
it was a conflict.
Mike (19:19):
I don't think it did and that would be on me because
the Catholic faith wasn'tthat important to
me at the time.
We both wanted a relationshipwith Jesus, for sure.
And we wanted to bring Godinto our marriage.
And we recognized right awaythat God brought us together.
It was just,it was literally like a
lightning bolt when I met her.
I just knew.
And so we gave God that credit,but we were still
(19:40):
finding our way.
So I would just encourageanyone that's either
considering the Catholicfaith, or which, denomination
in general they wereinterested in or someone
that is alreadyCatholic that maybe feels
like their faith is alittle dry, my advice
to people is focus onthe Eucharist.
That's what makes ourCatholic faith
unique and just learn aboutit, learn about how it's
talked about it in the Biblebecause it's very important
(20:02):
to Protestants, toall of us, but
Protestants especially,John chapter 6, the book of
RevelationThat's the Lamb's Supper talks
all about how the whole bookof Revelation is
basically about the Eucharist.
It's incredible theinsights that Scott had.
It's an old book nowBut it's a great book.
to read about that.
I just read it about a week ago,because I'd recommended
(20:22):
it someone said, Ishould read this again.
But just focusing onkeeping it simple,
focusing on theEucharist, focusing
on going to Mass, evenif you're not Catholic
yet, just to go to the Mass.
A lot of non Catholics havebeen inspired just
by attending mass and seeinghow scriptural it
is devotion to the Eucharist.
Katie (20:40):
Right.
It is very scriptural,which I think most people
don't have an understanding of.
Mike (20:44):
And reconciliation, it's not
always easy.
it's very humbling to goAnd see a priest that you know
socially and youknow at Mass, okay,
now I got to tell youall my dirty laundry.
But you could go somewhere else.
I mean, you don't have togo to the parish that you go to
Mass to, but it'svery cleansing to
receive The Sacrament ofReconciliation, and they
(21:05):
receive the Eucharist.
it's grace, it's power, it'sstrength.
Katie (21:09):
One of the things for Reconciliation that I always
find reallypowerful for our parish
is on Good Friday, FatherMike does confessions for
like five and ahalf hours or something.
And I think nowFather Bob is helping
him, maybe even Father Tomthis year But, it is, it's
incredibly humbling to see theamount of people who are
going to confession on that day.
(21:29):
And just to knowthat all the mercy
that God is showing isbeing poured out in that place.
Mike (21:34):
You hit the nail on the head, I think,
people often think,why do I need to
confess to a priest?
Why can't I justconfess to God in private?
But this was God's design andI think it was his design
because he wanted us tohear audibly your
sins are forgiven.
And wanted usto get guidance from someone.
that has been ordainedAnd given the seal to give
(21:54):
God's grace and mercy.
So he works through the priest.
I mean, that's what a priestwould tell you and that's
certainly how it works.
And I I've been toconfessions from many
priests, and some of theconfessions I've felt We're more
helpful than others, butI've never left thinking
that was not helpful.
Katie (22:10):
Man, I just wasted my time, and that guy
knows so much about me.
I think also one of thekey things of confession
is the fact that we say theAct of Contrition which is I
screwed up and I will try notto do it again I can speak
for myself, if Iwere just confessing
in my bedroom wellit would be like,
okay, God, here, X, y, Z,I screwed up see ya.
There would never be thatpublic accountability
(22:32):
of I will not do this again.
So, I always find thatsuper powerful about
confession, too.
you are actually saying,yeah, I'm actively
working on fixingit, instead of it just being
like, oh,no big deal.
Mike (22:45):
There's something a little more
formal, like, okay, I'vegot to actually tell someone
this, I can't just sweepthis, under the rug and a
quick, you know, prayer to God.
It's like putting it onthe table, really dealing with
it.
Katie (22:55):
So if you could tell your younger
self one good, solid piece ofadvice from all that you've
shared today, which is a lot,and I'm grateful for that.
What piece of advicewould you give
your younger self?
Mike (23:06):
If I could go back in time to my high school self,
I would walk up to myselfsmack myself on the head and
say, you don't know anything.
But in allseriousness, again, God
brought me back, But I couldhave not found my way back.
And so I think I wouldjust encourage
myself to keep the door open.
And that's what I wouldsay to anybody
that is either strugglingwith faith in general or
(23:28):
just not sure aboutthe existence of God.
Just pray.
this world makes no sensewithout God.
I don't know how youcan even, make sense of the way
things are withoutrecognizing God as a creator.
And so C. S. Lewis said, I'mgoing to paraphrase a quote.
There's somethingin effect of God's either
of no importance or ofinfinite importance.
(23:48):
He can't be in the middle.
And so just pondering that,just, does God exist?
And if he does, I shouldbe giving him everything that
I can.
And he wants us tobe happy, you know,
being a faithfulCatholic does not mean,
Suffering all the time and,feeling like you're,
worthless all the time.
From the greatestto the least, we all screw up.
(24:08):
And so we have to be joyfuland live our lives joyfully,
but also be mindful thatwe have a tendency to sin.
And the devil is very clever.
And that's that's where thepower of the sacraments come in.
It's the grace that wereceive to fight evil.
and that's the otherthing is that
I'll be honest about the factthat there's a fight between
(24:28):
good and evil and and yousay that and younger people,
might blow that off, thinkit's a funny comment.
I know my kids have laughed whenI said that but There's good and
evil fighting all thetime and so it's the decisions
that you make andit's so easy to make
the wrong decision.
if you don't have some focus onheaven and Jesus,
It's more comfortableto live in sin.
even though I believe it makesyou less happy, as far as making
(24:51):
daily decisions, it'smore comfortable to just seek
pleasure and try to minimizepain.
Katie (24:57):
And I'm assuming you're recommending
everyone read, The Lamb's Supperby Scott Hahn.
Mike (25:01):
It's a great book.
There's a lot ofbooks that I like reading.
I love C. S. Lewis.
Katie (25:06):
Screw tape letters.
Mike (25:07):
He has wonderful books.
Mere christianity.
different books appealto different people.
So I like something that's,a little deeper, I guess if
you, I don't know.
For me, reading abook like, Matthew Kelly's
a popular author, and he writesgreat
things, but he's a little moreemotional, and so that
appeals to some people.
I don't, that's not my go to.
I go to people thatI think are a little
(25:28):
more, logical and researchbased, but I recognize
that not everyonewould, would want to do that
Katie (25:33):
Yeah, well, I just want to
thank you so much forbeing with us today, Dr. Towler.
Mike (25:37):
Mike will suffice, thank you.
Katie (25:39):
I mean, We could call you what
Randy did, Mrs.
and Mrs. Towler.
Mike (25:44):
Yeah, we got a nice thank you note
from Randy that said,Dear Mrs. and Mrs. Towler,
that was fun.
And then Jodi said, I shouldsend a picture of this to Katie.
I said, you gotta do itright now.
it She did, and of course, youran with that I,
Katie (25:56):
Randy is just Randy and so uh, his podcast episode
not too long ago.
and he did a greatjob explaining himself.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday, and you had a lot
of wisdom on marriage andfamily and I hope that you
continue to share that.
Mike (26:11):
Thank you.
Katie (26:13):
Once again, we thank you for joining us today.
We hope that wherever youfind an open seat in your
life, you will invitesomeone to join you.
She is definitely the strength.
behind everything I do.
She's been, is a wonderful wife,has been and is
a wonderful mother.
She has a masters in social workBut she gave that up
to raise our children.
and so that was, that's howimportant the family was to
her and she's done a great job.
Plus, I'm her long term socialwork project so she's still
working on her thesis there.
Katie (00:21):
Welcome to Open Seat, the podcast where we
create a space for authenticconversations about faith,
unfiltered and unapologetic.
Here, we believe thatevery story matters.
Whether you're questioning,seeking, or steadfast in
your beliefs, you'll findsomething relatable in
these heartfelt discussions.
(00:42):
So grab your seat, getcomfortable, and let's dive
into today's story here atOpen Seat.
Well, welcome to the Open Seattoday, Mr. Dr. Michael Towler.
Which name do youprefer to go by with?
Mike (01:00):
Mike, is fine.
Katie (01:01):
So, Mike, why don't you tell us a
little bit about yourself?
Okay.
I'm one of two childrenin my family
and, I guess my story that I'dlike to share would probably
start with where Iwent after high school.
in high school, confidencewas not a problem for me.
I was overly confident,more than I should be.
And I was the king ofmy little small world and
(01:23):
just thought I had allthe answers.
Andso, life started to humble me
when my father passed awaywhen I was 19, college became
quite difficult, and I givecredit to my mom for Raising
us Catholic, but like a lotof kids, I fell away from the
church when I was younger.
And, I just was searchingfor answers.
And so, you know, I alwaysbelieve God just wants the
(01:45):
window cracked.
If we're open to anythingthat He wants to give us.
He will always find a way in.
And so, when I was in college,I wasn't really going to mass.
wasn't practicing the faith butI did pray every night,
and so that was thelittle window that God was
looking for.
Mike (02:01):
I just knew that He existed, I just didn't have
the connection thatI would have liked.
And so I juststarted to think about where I
wanted to gowith my life, and, having
a family was reallyimportant to me, and I just
made a decision thatI wasn't going to date
anymore, just to date,I was going to date to
try to hopefully find myfuture wife.
Little did I know my futurewife was going through the
(02:23):
same thing.
She was tired of dating justto date, and so she started
praying as well and we're bothindividually praying about
who we wanted to find.
And,
Katie (02:32):
Did you pray, like, any novenas or anything?
Any specific?
Mike (02:35):
I really didn't know to do that at the time.
I just would read the Bible.
I left out reading the Bible.
I'd read the Bible and pray.
Just start talking.
Open seat with God.
Katie (02:46):
Yeah.
Mike (02:47):
In any, in any event, I was getting ready to graduate
with my engineeringdegree from U of M and
I was at a party witha friend and she was just
we were talking aboutwhere we wanted to go
in life and somehow wegot in the subject of the
kind of woman I washoping to meet and she said,
I have a friend justlike that someone she
went to high school with.
And this friend of oursneeded help moving, as a lot of
(03:08):
college kids do.
So I was at her house helpingher move, and my beautiful
wife walked in the roomand my jaw just dropped, and
I just, I just knew, it wasliterally, there was no
doubt, I think she's a veryattractive woman, but it
was more her smile,and she's just, it was just, I
just, she had this piece abouther and I just, I
just knew she wasthe one, and I went from
(03:30):
being very skeptical,like I don't want to,
date anybody toI'm madly in love
with this woman,which was kind of scary.
Within two weeks, I wanted topropose to
her and the engineer inme said, that's
insane, you don't do that.
So I held out and waited sixweeks, I was really proud of
myself.
We were engaged fora year, so we got to
know each other, butthere was some nervousness
(03:50):
in my family, like,what are you doing?
You don't know this person.
But we hadboth been praying intensely.
And the conversationswe had for the year we
were engaged wasall about how we wanted
to raise kids, what we wantedout of life, what
our faith meant to us.
And when the two of us just grewin faith together.
And so, we are goingto be celebrating this
coming year our 30thanniversary.
Katie (04:12):
Aww, congratulations.
Saint Jodi.
Mike (04:15):
Well, she loves when you call her that.
Katie (04:17):
I know, but really.
Mike (04:21):
She is definitely the strength.
behind everything I do.
She's been, is a wonderfulwife, has been and is
a wonderful mother.
She hasa masters in social work and she
really enjoyed what shewas doing.
But she gave that upto raise our children.
and so that was, that's howimportant the family was to
her and she's done a great job.
Plus, I'm her long term socialwork project so she's still
(04:42):
working on her thesis there.
Katie (04:44):
And, That does happen, you know.
Mike (04:46):
But where, this is going, we've
always, we've grown in faithtogether, my wife has been a big
inspiration for mein terms of, she was
not Catholic to begin,she converted, became Catholic,
and I learned a lot moreabout her faith from
her and her journey, andwe just, we put God first
in our marriage, she'llbe the first to tell
(05:07):
you that, He never gets in theway because we both do that, But
if I were ever tosay like, I don't feel
like going to church,I'm tired, she wouldn't
say, oh, you know,you should get a break today.
She'd say, no, get your butt up.
You gotta go to church
Katie (05:19):
Well, there is one thing that I
remember recently youhad a spill on a bike.
And so, We're both in theactivity center watching
Mass, and you're like, oh,I just have to walk around
for Mass today.
It's so uncomfortable to sit.
I envisioned she probably waslike that day, get up, go.
You were lucky youonly ended up with a
couple bruises, Mike.
Yeah.
Mike (05:38):
But We, we've always had a wonderful marriage
people say marriageis work and, and it's
true, but I don't meanthat in a negative connotation.
It's a work in thatyou have to invest your
time effort, love intoit which we've both done.
I mean, I'm selfish youprobably more than most
people, but I don'tspend a lot of time thinking
about what I need.
I think I try tothink about what she
(05:59):
needs because I knowshe's always looking out for
me and what I need as well.
Which is really a peacefulplace to be.
Our marriage justgets stronger as time, goes on.
we're very proudof our three children
that we've raised.
our youngest just leftfor college, so we're
in this weirdempty nester phase.
And I've heard a lotof people struggle because
the kids move out andthey're like, Who are you?
(06:19):
Getting to knoweach other again.
And for us, it's just,I mean, we miss our kids, but
we're loving it.
It's like we're dating again.
So, We've had ups and downs inour marriage, that
we've always gottenthrough together.
one was about17 years into my career.
the 2008 crisis happenedand engineering and
(06:41):
automotive was lookinglike it might not exist anymore.
and so I just started thinkingand praying, like, what
am I going to do going forward?
And, part of me thoughtI'd just kind of weather
out the storm, see what happens.
And then I juststarted thinking more about
just changing careers.
I was praying aboutit, of course.
And at this point, I'mdefinitely saying novenas.
I'm a huge fan of not only ofMass, but Going to adoration
(07:05):
and I'm really bad atsitting still I just would tell
myself even anygo for five minutes
and I would just sit there.
And then five minutes turn intoten and then ten turned into
twenty andI just would like Stare at the
tabernacle
Katie (07:16):
at the
Mike (07:16):
Eucharist and just Monstrance and just ask God what
do you want me to do?
It was, it wasn't what I want.
I would just always ask.
What do you want?
What do you want?
And I guess I didn't feel like Igot hit over the head
with an answer, butyou just find yourself
gravitating to a certain path.
And so I was getting my teethcleaned one day, talking to my
dentist about what I wanted todo and he said,
(07:39):
what do you like?
I said, I don't know.
I like working with my hands.
I like using my brain.
I like working with people,And he said, well, you
ought to be a dentist.
And I kind of laughed and Ithought about it and I said,
you know, maybe I should.
I was at work, it was a Friday.
And I went online and I knewnothing about dentistry, and
I just googled dental schools.
I didn't know where they were.
I found out there was twoin Michigan.
And then I found out that Uof M had an open house once a
(08:01):
year, and it was the next day.
Katie (08:03):
Oh!
Mike (08:04):
I said, okay, well this is something I should
probably go take a look at.
So I get home that night,and told my wife, you know, I
think I want to be adentist and she was like
immediately supportive,she just, she didn't worry
about not having a paycheckor how we're going to make it.
She said, we'll make it.
we'll get through it.
So I wentthere the next day and I'm
standing in the back of theroom and I'm talking to
this lady next to me about myage and she says, which one
(08:26):
of these are your kid?
And I said, well, I'm the kid.
I'm thinkingabout going to dental school.
And she said,Oh, and she started
talking to me andasking about me.
And I didn't know who she was.
So, I'm just beinghonest with her about
my life and whatI'm trying hoping
to do And she'slooked at me, she
said you should apply.
Well, she was the directorof admissions, which I
didn't know.
Katie (08:43):
Ah!
Mike (08:44):
So, I Think she remembered that conversation
because she knew that Iwas being genuine.
So
Katie (08:50):
And about how old were you when you switched?
Mike (08:52):
I Started dental school at 39. so probably 38
when I I was at that meeting.
And, so I entered, Kidsimmediately called me.
pops, made fun of me,that was always fun.
I remember the firsttest I took, a
kid turned around and hesaid, are you going
to get your abacus out for
Katie (09:08):
[Laughter] You're like, no, but I rode the
dinosaur here, right?
It
Mike (09:14):
a little intimidating at first because, Part
that I left off is howmuch preparation had to go into
getting ready for dental school.
I knew nothingabout the process.
There's a test that youhave to take.
I had to study like mad fortwo and a half months,
I mean literally nonstop to even pass it.
I ended up doing quite wellthrough a lot of prayer our
kids were going to SpiritusSanctus in Ann Arbor,
(09:34):
the Dominican Sisters of Mary,And I had all those
sisters praying.
I mean, there wasprayer everywhere.
I was not shy about askingfor prayers,
Katie (09:41):
And were you working still at
the same time as going toschool?
Mike (09:44):
So basically my day then was I would
go to work and thingswere slow 'cause the
way the automotive industry was.
and My boss basically said,if you get your work
done, you know, study.
I would study wheneverI could at work.
I'd get home, have dinner withthe kids, pour a pot of coffee.
I'd study till I couldn'tStay awake anymore, usually
well past midnight.
Did this for twoand a half months.
(10:05):
They said youshould take a couple
practice tests.
I probably took 20.
I mean, I just figuredrepetition.
I had to do organicchemistry on this test,
which I hadn't had in 17 years.
Through the grace of God,I actually, that was my best
score on the test.
And my lowest score wassomething I was really good at.
So I think that was God humblingme.
But, That all worked out.
So I got into dentalschool and at first it
(10:25):
was very intimidatingbecause these kids
were like, the best of thebest in terms of smartness,
and they were just comingout of college.
and so, dental school startswith very academic,
very biochemistry driven, and Ijust was like
treading water justtrying to get good grades.
It was so hard.
and then usuallyabout halfway through
dental school, you get intothe clinical part where it's all
(10:46):
about effort and that's whenPops showed them a
thing about working, Iactually, that was the part
where I really took offand finally, got
my confidence upand I practiced in Metro
Detroit, because that'swhere we were living at
the time.
And I was looking allover the state to buy a
practice.
We were trying tostay in the area just
for our kids, forcontinuity, we had a lot
of friends there.
Katie (11:07):
Are you from that area?
that area?
Mike (11:08):
So I'm actually from Ann Arbor.
Yeah.
And, Jodi's from the Lansingarea She's a Spartan, converted
Wolverine her Master'sdegree, so.
Katie (11:18):
Well, thank goodness somebody was
saved through this process.
Mike (11:21):
I root for Michigan State every game but one, so
I think that's pretty good.
I was lookingfor practices all over the state
And we actually almost boughta practice in Holland, Michigan.
And that's where I wassupposed to end up.
I mean, it waslike, literally the rug
was pulled out at the lastminute and that's a story
for another podcast,a long podcast.
But, this broker I wasworking with said, I
(11:43):
just got this listing.
This is a great practice.
You've got to check this out.
Do you know where Adrian is?
Actually, I do.
Becausewhen I played football in Ann
Arbor, we wonthe state championship and
we almost didn't make itbecause of this difficult,
good team in Adrianthat we played.
And that was a long time ago.
So I had been hereonce or twice.
I'd been to the lakesaround here.
(12:05):
So let's give it a try.
And, I really like being here.
I liked it right away.
It was a littleadjustment for the family being
more rural.
but Jody loves it here.
We love it here.
My oldest daughter wentto Lenawee Christian.
she met her husband there.
They got marriedthree years ago.
So, God worksin mysterious ways.
So She found her husbandhere and my son
(12:26):
had a great experiencethere as well.
you never know wherelife's going to take
you, but ourplan is to make this our home.
and Wehave no plans to go anywhere.
Katie (12:33):
Yeah, I, I think, anytime you switch
paths, it doesn't matterif it's a career, or a
place of livingit's all chaos for a
while, right?
And So, have things kindof settled down a little?
Mike (12:45):
I'm glad you led me there.
St. Jodi is, uh,she just said, we're
going to make this work.
unfortunately when she got hermaster's degree in social
work, you could justpractice right away.
And then, by the time Iwas going to dental school,
they had all these newrequirements where you
had to get licensingand basically all
this, these hours she wouldhave to work to even be able
to practice, even though shecould have done that when she
(13:07):
graduated.
So we decided that wasn'ta good path to go.
She opened up a daycareout of her house, which was,
I don't know how she did it.
She did it every day.
She would raise our kids.
She wouldbring kids into the daycare,
and whenever I would get down ordiscouraged about the
challenges I was dealingwith with school,
she would always lift me up.
I can't emphasizeenough the strength and
(13:28):
calmness thatshe brought, and she would
probably tell you she wasyelling at the
kids all the time,but she wasn't.
She was a greatsource of strength
for our family.
Mike Towler (13:36):
family.
Katie (13:37):
So do do you pray for eachother?
Mike (13:41):
Absolutely.
We Pray for each other.
We pray together every night.
I love reading.
Most of what I read is about ourfaith, I don't read as
much as I'd like, butwhen I do, I want to
read about our faith.
And I like to learn, butI always remind myself
to keep it simple.
It's all about the sacraments,you know, going to
reconciliation, going toMass, great book that I
love, the Lamb's Supperwith Scott Hahn about
(14:03):
the Mass is literally heaventouching down on earth.
I mean, there's no timewhere we can receive God
more than at Mass.
And, I just think as Catholicsif we could just keep it simple
and frequent the sacramentsand, practice love, God is love.
Of course, I try to be love.
I don't always succeed.
I had a,what should be an obvious
revelation only a fewyears ago, I was
(14:23):
just thinking aboutmy relationship with God and
how I sin when I don't want to.
And Ijust started comparing that
to my relationship with my wife,who I've always loved
and never wanted to hurt.
And I just, it just dawned onme, like, I think we
often think God is so lovingand forgiving, I
can do these things.
and He'll get over it.
He'll forgive me.
But then I thoughtmy wife is very loving and very
(14:43):
forgiving what if I wenthome every day and
did bad things toher disrespected her, And
knowing that she wouldput up with it And
love me and forgive me.
Why would I do that?
I wouldn't sowhy would things be
any different with Godever since that
obvious thing kind ofEnded up on my heart.
I've just always thought aboutthat whenever
temptation arises to justremember that.
Katie (15:04):
That's a really deep revelation
and I think that notmany people would put
that correlation together
Mike (15:10):
Well, it's the grace of god.
It really is.
Katie (15:13):
Is that the kind of wisdom you
share in marriage prep?
Because I know you two areleading that ministry.
Mike (15:19):
So it was something that Deacon Len
was glad to have us takeover, and it was almost
like, here you go, good luck.
No, he was helpful.
it was a littleintimidating for us at first,
but we've, wehave great couples that
go on through the program.
They teach you with the trainingthat you're more a facilitator.
Your goal is toget the couple talking.
And as we always say,we're not here to judge.
We're not here really togive advice.
(15:41):
We might say some things.
The goal here is we bringthings up and the two of you,
you should even belooking at each other
and just talking and we're justfacilitating the conversation.
So, that took a lotof weight off for us
because we thoughtwe were supposed to come in and
give all this expert advice.
Katie (15:55):
Save all these marriages,
Mike (15:56):
But we've had great couples and I feel Jodi
does a great job andI think I'm doing pretty well.
But we do try to give someadvice from time to time
just about putting God firstand then putting your marriage
second and then puttingyour children third, which
surprises a lot of people.
This doesn't meanthat one party in
this gets neglected.
If you put Godfirst, that drives
(16:17):
the marriage and keeps it ontrack.
And then if the marriageis good, it keeps how you raise
your kids on track.
kids are, they're manipulators,you tell one kid, no,
they're going to go to theother parent.
Well, what do you think?
And so, you know, justhaving a common understanding
of how we want to raiseour kids, the message
that we give them, sharingour faith together.
We both of coursealways go to Mass
(16:37):
unless we're sickand the kids know that
if you're living in thishouse, you're going to go to
Mass.
And so it's, that'sbeen, a struggle at times, but
they go and I knowit's planting seeds
because it planted seedsfor me too when I fell
away from the church.
Katie (16:50):
Were you instrumental in your wife
converting to Catholicism?
Mike (16:54):
So I fell away from the church and I
wasn't going to Mass anymore.
And then I think because weprayed so
much and we were very muchinto bringing God into our
marriage, but we didn'tknow how to do that.
And so we started going todifferent churches because Jodi
was, she had gone to a fewchurches, but
different Protestant churches.
And so we went to someof those, went to the
(17:14):
Catholic church and thenunfortunately, the
Catholic church, wewent just to look at it
from a secular perspective.
It wasn't very interesting.
And so we were talkingabout that and I made that
comment too.
That was kind of boring,frankly, but I just
said somethingthat is so obvious.
I'm embarrassed to even say it.
Like something's missing.
I didn't know what it was.
And I just realized it's theEucharist and so I
(17:37):
told Jodi what theEucharist meant
to me and to Catholics.
And it was somethingthat I think she found
on her own,whether or not she wanted
to do it because I was Catholic,I don't know, but I
wasn't really practicing.
So I think it was somethingthat she just found on
her own through prayerand, it was revealed to her.
And then she entered RCIA andthat was right around the time
(17:57):
our daughter was born.
So it was
Katie (17:59):
25 years ago.
So it was after you got married?
Mike (18:02):
After we got married, Yep.
We love our faith.
And life is good.
good
Katie (18:06):
Am I correct that your daughter's husband
has now converted?
Mike (18:10):
Yes, he did.
Yeah.
And I would say thesame thing with him.
That was somethingour daughter, our kids all have
different strengthsand different gifts.
That was a gift ourdaughter always had,
is she always loved our faith.
She's had that ever since shewas a little girl.
And when he asked for herhand, which I thought that was
really, nice of him to do.
I didn't want to lecture,but that is one thing I
(18:30):
brought up, is do you plan toraise your kids Catholic?
I didn't ask if hewas going to convert,
because that's nota requirement, but
of course we doask that if you marry,
that you raise your kidsCatholic he said, absolutely.
So I think he foundthat through himself.
He's a very prayerful,smart guy, maybe
you'll have him on, hecan tell his story, but yeah.
Katie (18:48):
I think though that's the struggle,
sometimes, because even inin baptism,
you say, I'll raise my childCatholic, but what does
that mean?
How do you do that, know?
And so, if you have people fromdifferent belief systems
that can be really tricky tonavigate.
Mike (19:03):
Right, absolutely.
Katie (19:04):
So that's why I wondered like at what
point jodi converted.
Cause when you weretalking about, you had
these conversations duringengagement period
where you were talkingabout how you want
your kids to be raisedand stuff.
I just wondered ifthat ever came up where
it was a conflict.
Mike (19:19):
I don't think it did and that would be on me because
the Catholic faith wasn'tthat important to
me at the time.
We both wanted a relationshipwith Jesus, for sure.
And we wanted to bring Godinto our marriage.
And we recognized right awaythat God brought us together.
It was just,it was literally like a
lightning bolt when I met her.
I just knew.
And so we gave God that credit,but we were still
(19:40):
finding our way.
So I would just encourageanyone that's either
considering the Catholicfaith, or which, denomination
in general they wereinterested in or someone
that is alreadyCatholic that maybe feels
like their faith is alittle dry, my advice
to people is focus onthe Eucharist.
That's what makes ourCatholic faith
unique and just learn aboutit, learn about how it's
talked about it in the Biblebecause it's very important
(20:02):
to Protestants, toall of us, but
Protestants especially,John chapter 6, the book of
RevelationThat's the Lamb's Supper talks
all about how the whole bookof Revelation is
basically about the Eucharist.
It's incredible theinsights that Scott had.
It's an old book nowBut it's a great book.
to read about that.
I just read it about a week ago,because I'd recommended
(20:22):
it someone said, Ishould read this again.
But just focusing onkeeping it simple,
focusing on theEucharist, focusing
on going to Mass, evenif you're not Catholic
yet, just to go to the Mass.
A lot of non Catholics havebeen inspired just
by attending mass and seeinghow scriptural it
is devotion to the Eucharist.
Katie (20:40):
Right.
It is very scriptural,which I think most people
don't have an understanding of.
Mike (20:44):
And reconciliation, it's not
always easy.
it's very humbling to goAnd see a priest that you know
socially and youknow at Mass, okay,
now I got to tell youall my dirty laundry.
But you could go somewhere else.
I mean, you don't have togo to the parish that you go to
Mass to, but it'svery cleansing to
receive The Sacrament ofReconciliation, and they
(21:05):
receive the Eucharist.
it's grace, it's power, it'sstrength.
Katie (21:09):
One of the things for Reconciliation that I always
find reallypowerful for our parish
is on Good Friday, FatherMike does confessions for
like five and ahalf hours or something.
And I think nowFather Bob is helping
him, maybe even Father Tomthis year But, it is, it's
incredibly humbling to see theamount of people who are
going to confession on that day.
(21:29):
And just to knowthat all the mercy
that God is showing isbeing poured out in that place.
Mike (21:34):
You hit the nail on the head, I think,
people often think,why do I need to
confess to a priest?
Why can't I justconfess to God in private?
But this was God's design andI think it was his design
because he wanted us tohear audibly your
sins are forgiven.
And wanted usto get guidance from someone.
that has been ordainedAnd given the seal to give
(21:54):
God's grace and mercy.
So he works through the priest.
I mean, that's what a priestwould tell you and that's
certainly how it works.
And I I've been toconfessions from many
priests, and some of theconfessions I've felt We're more
helpful than others, butI've never left thinking
that was not helpful.
Katie (22:10):
Man, I just wasted my time, and that guy
knows so much about me.
I think also one of thekey things of confession
is the fact that we say theAct of Contrition which is I
screwed up and I will try notto do it again I can speak
for myself, if Iwere just confessing
in my bedroom wellit would be like,
okay, God, here, X, y, Z,I screwed up see ya.
There would never be thatpublic accountability
(22:32):
of I will not do this again.
So, I always find thatsuper powerful about
confession, too.
you are actually saying,yeah, I'm actively
working on fixingit, instead of it just being
like, oh,no big deal.
Mike (22:45):
There's something a little more
formal, like, okay, I'vegot to actually tell someone
this, I can't just sweepthis, under the rug and a
quick, you know, prayer to God.
It's like putting it onthe table, really dealing with
it.
Katie (22:55):
So if you could tell your younger
self one good, solid piece ofadvice from all that you've
shared today, which is a lot,and I'm grateful for that.
What piece of advicewould you give
your younger self?
Mike (23:06):
If I could go back in time to my high school self,
I would walk up to myselfsmack myself on the head and
say, you don't know anything.
But in allseriousness, again, God
brought me back, But I couldhave not found my way back.
And so I think I wouldjust encourage
myself to keep the door open.
And that's what I wouldsay to anybody
that is either strugglingwith faith in general or
(23:28):
just not sure aboutthe existence of God.
Just pray.
this world makes no sensewithout God.
I don't know how youcan even, make sense of the way
things are withoutrecognizing God as a creator.
And so C. S. Lewis said, I'mgoing to paraphrase a quote.
There's somethingin effect of God's either
of no importance or ofinfinite importance.
(23:48):
He can't be in the middle.
And so just pondering that,just, does God exist?
And if he does, I shouldbe giving him everything that
I can.
And he wants us tobe happy, you know,
being a faithfulCatholic does not mean,
Suffering all the time and,feeling like you're,
worthless all the time.
From the greatestto the least, we all screw up.
(24:08):
And so we have to be joyfuland live our lives joyfully,
but also be mindful thatwe have a tendency to sin.
And the devil is very clever.
And that's that's where thepower of the sacraments come in.
It's the grace that wereceive to fight evil.
and that's the otherthing is that
I'll be honest about the factthat there's a fight between
(24:28):
good and evil and and yousay that and younger people,
might blow that off, thinkit's a funny comment.
I know my kids have laughed whenI said that but There's good and
evil fighting all thetime and so it's the decisions
that you make andit's so easy to make
the wrong decision.
if you don't have some focus onheaven and Jesus,
It's more comfortableto live in sin.
even though I believe it makesyou less happy, as far as making
(24:51):
daily decisions, it'smore comfortable to just seek
pleasure and try to minimizepain.
Katie (24:57):
And I'm assuming you're recommending
everyone read, The Lamb's Supperby Scott Hahn.
Mike (25:01):
It's a great book.
There's a lot ofbooks that I like reading.
I love C. S. Lewis.
Katie (25:06):
Screw tape letters.
Mike (25:07):
He has wonderful books.
Mere christianity.
different books appealto different people.
So I like something that's,a little deeper, I guess if
you, I don't know.
For me, reading abook like, Matthew Kelly's
a popular author, and he writesgreat
things, but he's a little moreemotional, and so that
appeals to some people.
I don't, that's not my go to.
I go to people thatI think are a little
(25:28):
more, logical and researchbased, but I recognize
that not everyonewould, would want to do that
Katie (25:33):
Yeah, well, I just want to
thank you so much forbeing with us today, Dr. Towler.
Mike (25:37):
Mike will suffice, thank you.
Katie (25:39):
I mean, We could call you what
Randy did, Mrs.
and Mrs. Towler.
Mike (25:44):
Yeah, we got a nice thank you note
from Randy that said,Dear Mrs. and Mrs. Towler,
that was fun.
And then Jodi said, I shouldsend a picture of this to Katie.
I said, you gotta do itright now.
it She did, and of course, youran with that I,
Katie (25:56):
Randy is just Randy and so uh, his podcast episode
not too long ago.
and he did a greatjob explaining himself.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday, and you had a lot
of wisdom on marriage andfamily and I hope that you
continue to share that.
Mike (26:11):
Thank you.
Katie (26:13):
Once again, we thank you for joining us today.
We hope that wherever youfind an open seat in your
life, you will invitesomeone to join you.
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