March 18, 2025 • 51 mins
Reesa Morala is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in California. Reesa is the owner of Embrace Renewal Therapy & Wellness Collective and host of The Real Family Eats. She is dedicated to being a parenting ally, helping parents create thriving families by prioritizing their relationship. Both ventures aimed with the goal of helping parents feel less alone in the hard and supporting their success as a family.
In this conversation, we discuss the importance of prioritizing relationships in parenting, the impact of generational trauma, and the necessity of self-identity and self-love in nurturing healthy family dynamics. We explore the significance of inner child work, reparenting, and the role of compassion in breaking the cycle of trauma. Reesa shares insights on navigating change in long-term relationships and the importance of repair conversations in fostering emotional safety.
Some Takeaways of this Episode:
-Prioritizing your relationship is essential for thriving families.
-Having desires and needs is not selfish; it's necessary for healthy relationships.
-Vulnerability in relationships fosters deeper connections.
-Breaking the cycle of trauma requires conscious effort and self-awareness.
Connect with Reesa: https://linktr.ee/EmbraceRenewalTherapy
Connect with Cilia: https://selfexpressedbabe.com/
Watch this episode on Youtube: https://youtu.be/o3wqBluXTKg
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Openly Spoken, the podcast to help you show up, speak out, and be seen in healthy
(00:18):
relationships.
On this show, we talk about self-love, sexuality, relationship tips, including ending the cycle
of toxic relationships, and healing and thriving after heartbreak.
Hi, I'm your host Cilia and I'm a certified sex, love, and relationship coach helping
ambitious women with a history of toxic relationships feel deeply connected in healthy love.
(00:43):
These are such important topics that every woman deserves, so if you could leave this
show a rating and a review on Apple podcasts or Spotify to help more women find this, it
would mean the absolute world to me.
Thank you so much for being here today.
Now let's dive into the show.
(01:14):
Reesa Morala is a licensed marriage and family therapist in California.
Reesa is the owner of Embrace Renewal Therapy and Wellness Collective and host of The Real
Family Eats.
She is dedicated to being a parenting ally, helping parents create thriving families by
prioritizing their relationships.
Both ventures are aimed with the goal of helping parents feel less alone in hard stuff and
(01:37):
supporting their success as a family.
Thank you so much for being on Openly Spoken today, Risa.
I'm excited to have you here.
Yes, thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
I'm very excited to talk about preventing the passing on of generational trauma.
I know that part of your work is just this really, I would say it's kind of like a perspective
(02:03):
shift for parents to focus on the health of their relationship and putting their marriage
or partnership first before their kids.
Where would you like to start with that?
Gosh, you're absolutely right.
That is definitely a shift, I think, for many parents, whether again, it's something that
(02:25):
they saw generationally.
You talked about how do you navigate some of that, some of what you've seen and what's
seeped in that way, and then creating your new life and what you want it to look like.
So many times I think parents go into it because there is just naturally, I think, just pressure.
(02:46):
You've got this life that's being entrusted into your hands.
It's no longer just your life, it's somebody else.
And so I think instinctually people go, well, I need to spend all my time and focus here
and making sure that this life is fruitful and thriving.
And they often forget about themselves, their own identity gets lost.
(03:07):
And especially if they do have a parent partner, that relationship just really goes to the
back burner.
And it is such a shift.
And then many times the parents come to me and I kind of tell them this, they look at
me like I have 10 heads.
Like what do you mean?
Because it is such a foreign concept to kind of say, it's okay.
In fact, it's very much needed for us to be able to actually create the thriving kids
(03:33):
that we want to have, to have a really strong, solid foundation for them to launch off of.
And that really starts in my opinion, in my experience with us individually and then with
our relationship and that partnership.
Yeah.
I think it's so needed as well because there's just as a relationship coach, I don't have
(03:56):
kids first of all.
So I'm kind of like, how do I navigate this topic from the perspective of someone who
does not have kids?
But as a relationship coach, I feel like I do see that there's just a lack of skill in
being deeply connected in relationships.
And I feel like that might be learned in childhood from witnessing our parents not being connected
(04:22):
with each other because they're putting all the focus on us.
And I'm remembering back when I used to work in a daycare, like almost 10 years ago, and
one of the moms there, she gave me advice.
She's like, let me give you some advice for whenever you decide to become a parent.
And she was like, don't put your kids first, put your marriage first because that will
(04:45):
benefit your kids.
She was like, do not put your kids first.
Please whatever you do, don't do that.
Yeah.
What's really interesting is on my own podcast, I actually interviewed someone who came on
to talk about her journey with empty nesting and her kids leaving the nest, if you will,
and going off and flourishing and having their own lives.
(05:05):
And she said that for her was a real moment where these children left her home and she
was left with just her partner and whatever relationship they had created over the last
however many years.
And that was it.
That's what they were left with.
And so at that point, oftentimes if it's being neglected for those 18 plus years, it probably
(05:29):
isn't super comfortable to now be left with this person who has essentially become a stranger
or a roommate in your house.
And to try to then cultivate something after this however many years of just space and
distance emotionally, mentally from this person, even though physically you're in the same
(05:49):
house, that there's something that could really be missing when we're missing that emotional
component and that connectedness and just this is a partner.
This is a friend, my best friend in fact.
And sometimes that can be when we get in that habit of putting it on the back burner.
It's just when we wake up and we finally have that air because the kids have gone and they
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don't necessarily need us in that same way, that's all you have left.
And it can be incredible growing pains when you wake up and you realize, my goodness,
I have to now pick up the pieces and try to make sense of it all.
Yeah.
So if someone is listening that is in that situation where the kids are off in college
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and they're just, they don't have, maybe it's like a woman who doesn't have their children's
schedule taking up her whole day.
And now it's just her and her husband and she's kind of like, wait, I don't know this
man.
What would you say to her or where would you have her start?
Yeah.
I think the first question I would want to know is does she even know who she is at that
(07:02):
point as well?
Because you mentioned-
Very important question.
Yeah.
It taking up her whole life.
And that's a very real thing that again, sometimes we don't even know who we are.
And if we don't know who we are, that makes it 10 times more difficult to then communicate
it to the partner about what we want, what our needs are, what our desires are.
And so that would be my first question is, do you know who you are?
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And if not, I think really starting there and figuring out who are you, because likely
the person that you are after all those years, again, 18 plus years is probably not the same
person that started dating or got married if they got married to this partner.
And so it's really kind of figuring out what makes you tick and what brings you joy and
(07:49):
what just like really gets the passion and the butterflies going for you.
It may have changed, it likely has changed.
And so then once we have a little bit more understanding of what our needs are, again,
what our desires are.
And I want to make sure to mention having desires is so, so normal.
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Sometimes I feel like as a society, we kind of get in this idea that having desires or
having needs is a very selfish thing.
And in fact, it's such the opposite, like we convince ourselves that it's not needed,
but it makes it that much harder to be in a relationship when you don't let those things
in.
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Because they're there and if we're just like covering it up, then they come out as
resentments or just feeling unfulfilled.
And so really normalizing one that it's absolutely okay and very much needed to get in tune with
what our desires are and what our deepest needs are.
And then when we can communicate that to that person and starting there, just like, hey,
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I would really love to get to know your needs and your desires so that we can then come
back together, really work on that friendship piece first.
And doing it, because oftentimes I find naturally when you start dating someone, there's that
curiosity, who is this person and what do they like and what are they about?
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And so we're asking questions kind of naturally when we're dating.
But the minute we kind of get into that comfort, whether it's now we're in a long-term committed
relationship, we've added marriage to the mix, there's almost this like, okay, I know
who this person is.
And then that's it, and we kind of stop getting curious.
And so it's really coming back and almost channeling that curiosity again with this
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person that's in front of you and saying, I want to know more.
Not so that I can come at it from like a really judgy perspective, but because I want to know
you, I want to understand what makes your mind tick, if you will.
And as I think that gets cultivated and we can start to nurse that, then naturally some
(09:57):
of that emotional intimacy starts to rebuild.
Yeah.
And like you said earlier about who you are now after the kids have left the nest is different
than when you first started dating.
It's the same thing with your partner.
Like you just said, we ask the questions when we're dating, but then once we're long-term
(10:19):
committed, we stop asking those questions, but they're changing too.
And I think, I'm curious if you ever run into people are maybe afraid to figure out what
those changes are, because like I've seen kind of this kind of narrative of if you change,
it's like bad for the relationship.
(10:40):
You know, it's kind of depicted in movies sometimes too, where it's like, oh, you've
changed, like you're a different person.
And it's kind of depicted as this like negative thing.
Like you have to be the exact same woman I married.
Yes, I can echo that.
I feel like I can just off the top of my head, you know, name a couple that follow that same
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storyline.
And you're absolutely right that it is often depicted as kind of a negative thing.
And I think part of that is because sometimes, especially if we haven't necessarily allowed
our self permission to do our own growing and our own changing, that there's almost,
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it's more often than not coming from this like almost jealousy piece.
If we really dug deep into kind of what's the function of this feeling kind of I need
to come at you.
It's oftentimes the kind of almost that jealousy of like, wait, it's not fair.
Like why do you get to change?
And you know, maybe you haven't given yourself permission to kind of say, hey, do I have
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things that have changed about me?
Or and again, maybe it's something that has kind of been passed down of just when they've
seen change and others, it has been more negative.
And so then there's this perception of that.
If I change, that it could mean that we're not going to get along the way that we used
(12:10):
to.
And if we don't get along the way that we used to, does that mean that you're going
to leave me?
And if you're going to leave me, gosh, that feels really scary.
And I'm going to be left alone.
And so again, I think very much sometimes it either comes from that jealous piece of
just like, oh, I wish I could say the same thing or that I could be in tune with myself.
And sometimes it comes very much from a fear place and trying to like protect ourselves
(12:32):
because there's, you know, our brains can be really good at convincing us that if, oh,
if this happens, could it mean that I get left alone or that this relationship ends?
And the thought of that is way too scary.
So now I'm going to make it about you and you did this, you changed.
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I think that also really just meticulously illustrates the passing down of trauma, of
generational trauma, because like you just said, we may not have examples of the past.
So maybe we might have examples from our parents' relationship of when there was change, it
meant a negative thing.
So because we learned that, we learned like, yes, that might be true in that relationship,
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but there's also so many other relationships that exist.
But when we are kids, like we just see the one with our parents or our close family caretakers,
we don't see the whole spectrum of relationships.
So then we tend to just kind of operate within those same relationship dynamics.
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And the cycle just continues.
It sure does.
You know, and it is, it's easy to kind of fall into that because it is so known.
There's almost a comfort of like, oh, okay, this is what I saw.
This is how to handle this.
That if it's not an intentional choice to kind of learn something different, to go out
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and explore something different, it is so incredibly easy to just kind of fall into,
this is what we do.
So this is what I'm going to do.
This is what I know.
And, you know, I can even say just for my own life, I don't know how many times I've
heard from my own parents, well, you know, this is all I know.
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And that was the rationalization for whatever action or behavior that was being chosen.
It's kind of some good self-awareness maybe.
They're saying this is all I know instead of like, well, this is the way it is, you
know, and they're like, well, this is all I know.
So yeah, I don't know.
Maybe that's some self-awareness.
Absolutely.
And it could be.
And I think, I think that's, I always tell people, you know, the self-awareness is the
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first step and then it becomes a decision.
Do I want to keep doing this?
Or do I want something different?
And then just kind of owning that decision that if you're choosing to, yeah, this is
all I know, I'm not really interested in learning anything else, then that's a decision that
we're making versus, you know, sometimes I think we get really, again, it's very easy
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to kind of slip into, well, this is all I know.
So this is, this is what you get.
And that's it.
You know, and, you know, kind of almost saying, you know, it's out of my control.
I have no say in this.
So yeah, absolutely.
So what do you think it takes to be that person that, because like you said earlier, the way
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that we are navigating our relationships is very comfortable and going against that brings
up fear.
So what would you say it takes in a person to really break through kind of that pattern
of however it is they are being in their relationship that is causing low levels of emotional intimacy
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and connection?
Honestly, I think it first almost kind of takes them hitting whatever their version
of rock bottom, that's enough kind of motivation to say, all right, something's got to give.
Something's got to be different because I can't do this anymore.
And that's going to look different for everybody.
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Some people have a higher window of tolerance, if you will, when it comes to just, again,
whether it's a generational thing.
I know for me, for example, my window of tolerance of some of these behaviors was a lot larger.
I come from, you know, an emotionally immature parents, there was a lot of kind of abuse
and chaos in my home.
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And so I kind of conditioned as a survival technique of this is just, I have to take
it.
There's no other option.
I have to figure it out.
And as I saw that kind of manifest in my relationships as I grew up was this idea that, well, I can
just take it.
I've taken all of this growing up.
So again, so then my level of BS, if you will, that I was willing to kind of accept in relationships
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is a lot larger because I conditioned myself to say, this is just normal, right?
This is what I have to deal with.
And so I think there's different people are going to have different windows of tolerance.
And when you get to a point when you finally say, I don't know what else is out there,
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but I know I don't like this.
And I know I want something different.
And I think that's really kind of when we get to that point, then it does allow us a
little bit more capacity to actually start absorbing the information out there of how
to achieve some of that change of patterns, of being willing to start asking some of those
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really vulnerable questions.
Because now the want for change is starting to outweigh that fear of change.
And so then it allows just a little bit more ability for us to start going into some of
those vulnerable pieces.
And if you're willing to go in there, I would, my usually recommendation when I'm working
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with folks is going in there with as much curiosity and as much compassion as you possibly
can, because it is really scary.
And if we're going in there with like a very judgmental mindset, it's going to be 10 times
scary because we're going to look at every little thing and then we're going to start
judging it.
Oh, I shouldn't do that.
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We start using the word should.
Right.
And instead, if we're going in there with curiosity and then tons of compassion that
we can really look at ourselves and almost going into that inner child work of looking
at ourselves as that child of maybe we didn't have that model for us and how can we model
it for ourselves now?
What would that look like?
(18:56):
Yeah.
I love that you brought up inner child work.
It's so important.
I feel like all this relationship stuff, it always leads back to inner child.
And then I call it like inner mother and inner father.
But not everyone has, you know, mother and father.
Some people have two moms, two dads.
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There's all these different kinds of relationships, but there's kind of this, what would you call
it, internalized version of your caretakers.
And then that imprint of how you felt as a child is still, could still be very much alive
if those needs were never met.
Yeah, how would you, I feel like there's also maybe a little bit of fear or there's kind
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of some people think, oh, that's really weird.
I don't have an inner child or I've even had some friends who I've showed them a photo
of me when I was little.
And I'm like, yeah, I connect with this and asking them if they do it.
And they're like, nah, my, that version of me is like long gone or like dead.
(20:03):
And I'm like, that is so sad.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So for people who think it's like weird and think that, you know, how could that possibly
work because you really are, you really are kind of like using your imagination when you're
connecting with your inner child or internalized caretakers.
(20:23):
Can you speak to how, even though we are using our imagination and even though our childhood
was in the past, how is that still benefiting us in the present and moving forward in our
lives?
Yeah.
That's a great question because it is sometimes when you speak about inner child, you know,
(20:45):
I think so many people are like, oh, that's all this mumbo jumbo and you know, kind of
very, very, very heady stuff.
And what is, what I have found is so important.
And part of the reason usually when I find folks that have said, you know, something
more like you said that my childhood's wrong and is our brains are really good in my opinion
(21:05):
and experience at protecting us.
And so it's likely come having to shut the door on that child has come from a place of
trying to protect us because if we open that door, again, going back to what you mentioned
that fear, that's way too scary.
And our brain goes, no way we're going to go there.
I have chills.
(21:26):
Like my arm hairs are standing up.
Yeah, because it's such a real thing and our brains are going, we need to protect you at
all costs.
And so if it means we need to close the door on that child, so we can't hear that child
screaming, then that's what we have to do because that's, that's too uncomfortable.
That's too much to handle.
If I open it, I don't know if I can get out.
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And that takes a lot of energy too, because there's constantly this part of yourself that
you're like shutting up and stuffing down.
Yes.
And I often find that when, when people are finding themselves kind of having emotional
outbursts that they feel that are out of control and they have no idea how it came about and
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they feel like they're going from zero to a hundred in a split second, that it's often,
it's that door threatening to come out and it's being triggered in some way, shape or
form and because again, out of a need to protect ourselves, that door has been closed, locked
tight.
We're not aware.
And so there isn't that self-awareness to be able to say, this is what's being triggered
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in that moment, because again, we've closed that door off.
So it's still in our body.
It's still in our subconscious.
And that's likely what's coming out in those big emotional bursts.
And that's part of where I would say the benefits are of doing some of that exploration and
starting to open that door up.
It is scary.
And so that's, I would highly recommend making sure that you are with someone who is with
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safe that can go in there with you because again, you know, it's like, think about again,
a child trying to go into a dark closet.
If that dark closet is really scary, it feels so much better when you can go in there with
somebody else who has your back, who you know is looking out for you.
And so when, when we go in there, especially if it's not something that you're used to,
(23:18):
or that does feel weird, I would highly recommend making sure that you're, you're, you're starting
that work with somebody that's really safe and trusted.
And once we start to go in there, it does actually using that imagination, like you
said, and really trying to, to connect with that child at whatever age that your brain
said we need to close this off now for our protection, for our survival, we need to close
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this off and going into that child.
Honestly, I have found unlocks so much ability to then empathize with the grownup version
of us, because now instead of it's just me overreacting, right?
It's me feeling angry.
Now all of a sudden, if we understand I'm feeling angry because that really reminded
(24:06):
me of this moment where I felt just so abandoned and so unloved.
Now we can look at us as grownups and say, gosh, that makes so much more sense.
Like of course you would feel really angry.
Of course your body would have a reaction because if you're feeling unloved, you're
feeling abandoned.
That doesn't feel great.
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Yeah, you're absolutely right.
And now there's a little bit more compassion to ourselves.
And instead of all that, that self hatred, why do you do this?
Oh, you should do something different.
And then once we start being able to access a little bit more of that compassion, then
we can start saying, hey, how can I find safety?
Because safety is really key.
It's really important.
(24:48):
But are there other tools, other ways that I can now find this safety versus just that
whole let me close this off because I don't have any skills, especially when we're talking
about children.
Oftentimes if you're in an environment where you're not necessarily being taught, it's
not something that's generally taught in schools of how to emotionally regulate or how to make
sure that you're building secure attachments.
(25:10):
But those things aren't taught.
And so if you don't have those skills, my goodness, from your ears.
Meditation break in kindergarten.
Yes.
My goodness.
I would love it.
I would jump up and down because I always say my joke is that I would love to be out
of a job because the world is just thriving and just doing its thing and that we're treating
(25:36):
each other with love and kindness and respect.
I would love that.
And so I would celebrate if that happened.
But until then, because it isn't something that's taught, our brain goes, well, closing
this off and cementing it up is really the only way I know how to.
(25:58):
And so now that as we're going in there as adults, especially if you're able to go in
there with somebody that's safe and can really help you explore that, now we can start seeking
safety in other methods that doesn't include just walling things up and kind of forgetting
that it's not there.
And then once someone goes in there with someone who's safe, can you talk about what it means
(26:24):
to reparent yourself?
And maybe some, you know, because you are a mom, maybe some of the unique ways of what
that looks like while you are also parenting little ones.
Well, I can say there is nothing like a trigger as your own child who is now manifesting some
of these behaviors in real time in front of your eyes.
(26:44):
But all of a sudden you're like, oh, did I just say that?
Or hey, did I just handle that that way?
And now seeing it like depicted right in front of you, it's like, oh, I don't think I like
that.
And so it really has challenged me as a parent.
But yes, the reparenting piece and I think reparenting, whether you have children or
not, is so hugely important.
(27:06):
Because like you said, if there are those moments in our life, and sometimes people
think, oh, well, you know, my life was, my childhood was relatively uneventful.
Then they think, you know, I don't really need to do any of that inner child or reparenting.
There's really nothing there.
The difficulty is that again, our brains are really, really good at picking things up.
(27:29):
So even though we don't necessarily look at it and go, oh, it's a big T trauma, right?
There's something like huge and monumental that I can point to.
Your body is likely still reacting to something.
And it could be, you know, just that could even be like a friendship.
Like maybe your friend in kindergarten, right, came up and called you a really mean, nasty
(27:52):
name and it really hurts your feelings.
And then when you went to the teacher or when you went home, that it was just kind of brushed
under under the rug of like, oh, well, you know, like I'm not necessarily coming from
from a bad place or that, you know, we're looking at it and going, oh yeah, that was
huge trauma.
If that could feel invalidating.
(28:13):
And so then our brain sees that.
And then we're really good at kind of feeding that as we grow up.
So then now maybe little events.
Now we're feeding that and it becomes something even bigger that now as adults, it's being
triggered without us even realizing like, oh, that that for me is really emotionally
invalidating.
And when I feel emotionally invalidated, like my body has this like visceral reaction because
(28:36):
it doesn't like that.
And so there's there's all these different ways that unless you have achieved like complete
zen, like highest mindfulness state, there's likely opportunities that your your body and
your brain are being kind of challenged in some way, shape or form.
And so that's really that re-parenting piece is going in there and taking a look at maybe
(28:58):
what, again, not that we're looking at it as saying that this was someone else was intentionally
doing this to like, make our lives miserable.
However, it doesn't mean that that's not how that our bodies didn't receive that and react
and kind of hold on to that in some way, shape or form.
And so really going on there and exploring that again with curiosity, with that compassion.
(29:22):
And then as as we do that, it's now when that opportunity presents again, when that particular
thing is being challenged, that we have that opportunity to be that intervention that our
child self felt like we didn't get.
And each time that we do that, and now so for example, if it's the emotional invalidation,
(29:45):
let's say, and now you have an opportunity as an adult, you've done some of that work,
is that awareness, hey, I know this is something that I'm working with.
And now there's an opportunity where someone challenges and maybe starts to, we're starting
to feel emotionally invalidated again, where maybe previously we would just take it and
be like, oh, it is what it is.
(30:07):
And then that builds up into something explosive, you know, after enough.
But we take that opportunity instead of just saying, oh, well, it is what it is actually
stepping up and saying, hey, that didn't feel great.
You know, oh, that gosh, that that really hurt when I heard you say that, or I felt
really invalidated when that happened.
(30:28):
And then we speak the need and we say what I would really appreciate is, is when I share
these things with you, if you could just, you know, maybe put down the phone and really
hear the words that I have to say, that would feel amazing, would you be willing to do that?
And all of a sudden we have stepped up for that child that didn't have a voice back then.
(30:50):
And that's that re-parenting piece that now that inner child is starting to see there
is someone that does have my back.
And little by little, now we have a little bit more confidence to say it and to say it
again and to stick up for ourselves and, and really start to maybe have the confidence
that we do deserve our needs to be met.
(31:12):
And we do deserve our needs to be heard.
And those are the pieces and the components where we're, we're re-parenting that inner
child to say, you too deserve these things and hey, I'm going to stick up for you.
I love that everyone needs that.
We do.
And, and again, like you said, with, with it being a child sometimes, you know, as a
(31:34):
parent rather than when we have our own children and you know, that does get challenged of
maybe the instinct is to also tell them what is what a day is like, move on, grow up.
You know, really stopping again.
And just as we would maybe want to reach out to our child with, with more compassion than
(31:56):
maybe we've received before more love.
It's really being able to also offer that to ourselves too.
Yeah.
And so the breaking of the cycle of passing on trauma begins.
Yes.
And it's a minutely decision.
So I don't want to say that lightly because I know there's, you know, in high level, it's
(32:18):
like, I should be able to do that.
And it's really hard.
And it is a minutely decision.
And so, you know, anybody listening, I just want you to know, I don't expect this to happen
overnight.
And then it does take a lot of, a lot of grace of like, okay, even if maybe I tried it one
time and it didn't go great, we can say, okay, let's try it again.
(32:39):
Yeah.
I think it's maybe also important because of the wording of reparenting to not treat
it as like your parents did a really bad job and to like blame your parents for the triggers
you have now.
Because even people with really great parents who had the best intentions and maybe, you
(33:01):
know, had really high emotional intelligence, even those parents live in this society where
we have to work a lot, where in my opinion, I think we work a lot more, like we work way
too much to be able to also invest in the nurturing of like a newborn until like five
(33:23):
years old, for example.
Like that time newborn to five years old, most people, if they're, unless they're lucky
enough to have like stay at home, one of them stays at home or they have, you know, the
resources to have support, a lot of people have to go back to work when their baby is
like not even able to hold up their head.
(33:46):
And so I think it's really important to also mention that this is very layered and there's
so many different things affecting the way your parents were able to parent you aside
from their own trauma.
Like it's like the world around us as well and the systems around us and you know, in
(34:08):
whether or not you live in a location in the world where the city or government gives support
to parents.
Like I have a friend in Ireland who gets like money every month specifically for like food
and diapers for her babies.
And it's like, I have, I have family in Europe too.
And it's not based on like, if you have low income, it's like everyone gets it.
(34:29):
But like postpartum support, like it's, it's like a standard because they see the value
in like investing in their next generations.
And so I think that's also an important thing to look at.
Absolutely.
And I think what I wanted to highlight that you mentioned is the support and resources
that he has even for a stay at home parent.
(34:51):
If there isn't, yes, I meant physically be there, but if there isn't that support and
resources for them to be able to have a moment to have a break that that can lead to really,
really quick burnout.
You know, we talk more information is coming out about postpartum and kind of the toll
that it takes, but even, even you might physically be there, but if there's not enough emotional
(35:17):
support and mental support, you might be checked out.
So again, not because you're doing it with ill intentions, but you're sitting there and
going, how can I like destroy this child's, you know, future?
I don't think that anybody goes into it like that.
And so absolutely it's not necessarily coming from a place of shame.
There's enough shame out here in the world, the society that we live in is so good at
(35:40):
shaming us.
We don't need to add to it.
Absolutely.
It's very much right.
And so it is about that support and resources.
And when those things aren't in place, you know, that it does, it limits parents' capacities
to be able to completely attune.
And like you said, they, they might be reading all the books and trying all the things.
(36:02):
And in fact, that's something I tell my kids or my, my parents all the time is we're going
to mess up our children.
We are, that's, you know, we just get to decide kind of in what ways, you know, I know, you
know, my, my partner and I have two children.
We joke all the time when something happens or we mess up because again, I'm a therapist,
I live and breathe this all day, all day long.
(36:23):
I mess up all the time.
Yeah.
And so, you know, what I do, it's, it's finding that, Oh, yep, my children are definitely
going to be talking to a future therapist about this one.
Great.
You know, and so, you know, finding, finding those opportunities because I, I am going
to mess up, you know, we are going to mess up.
(36:44):
And so, yes, but absolutely, I would agree that the reparenting isn't, isn't an opportunity,
isn't meant to kind of, again, let's, let's point fingers here.
It's really kind of, again, just figuring out because it could, maybe it was a parent
interaction again, like maybe it was just another adult that was in our life, but again,
(37:06):
they're not necessarily looking at it as this is, you know, I'm looking to screw up this
child because I imagine if anybody had, you know, a magic predictor and said, Hey, if
you say this to the kid, you're truly going to mess them up.
Most people would probably hear that and be like, Oh, okay, like, let me divert and do
something different, you know, that we're not going into it with, with ill intentions
(37:27):
many times.
And, and that's the same, I think also with just acknowledging that there's also some
cultural, I see it a lot of in my immigrant families where maybe their parents, right,
came from a different country and now they're living in a different one.
And so now society and what's accepted is very different.
Yeah, then maybe what's what's passed down.
(37:49):
And so, again, you know, I come so I'm Filipino American.
And so, you know, the Filipinos were at least the way that I was raised, you know, there's
also a component of mental health is not something that it's at the forefront.
It's really survival.
Yeah.
And so, and that moment, they're not sitting down and having a heart to heart with me about
(38:10):
my emotions and how I'm experiencing things.
It's like,
Sorry, I yelled at you, you know, like, our conversations.
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah.
And so I think there's a lot of layers.
And so again, with the reparenting, it's really not about that.
It's just you wanting to kind of go in and taking care of yourself and offering you yourself
(38:32):
some of these opportunities to heal.
If you would like them.
Yeah.
I can so relate to you with the immigrant upbringing as well.
I was born in Germany, my mom is German.
And then my stepdad and my mom married when I was two and he raised me.
And he's from Pakistan and in their culture, it's just like, Dad is in charge.
(38:54):
It's an authoritarian household.
You don't talk back, you're going to listen to what he says and there's no repair conversations.
And it's been very beautiful to go on this journey of like having compassion for that
and just being like, that's the culture that he came from.
Like he did not know any better instead of being like angry.
(39:18):
And I think what's so beautiful about opening up that compassion, it really shows you like
how much love you had in your heart already as a child.
And like no one had to teach you to love you were just born that way.
And I think it's so, so beautiful.
(39:39):
And I love that you mentioned that because I would absolutely echo children are some
of the most forgiving creatures on this planet.
And that's where I think, again, going back to where I live as far as my specialty and
why I'm so passionate about it is that if we have more resources and more support for
(40:03):
these parents to be able to nurture themselves, nurture their relationships, it offers them
more capacity to be able to come back to these children.
And even though you've messed up 50 times coming back 50 times and saying, like you
said, a repair attempt and saying, Hey, gosh, that did not go the way I wanted it to.
(40:25):
I want to do better.
I want to say sorry.
And the likelihood that your child is going to turn around and say, okay, okay, mommy,
okay, daddy, and give you a great big hug and want to move forward with you is super
high.
And so being able to kind of know that children in general, like you said, are very loving
(40:46):
and very forgiving.
And it's just giving them the opportunity to show us and to also show them.
That's such a great point to make because again, I don't have kids, but I would imagine
that some of the reason why some parents would not have the repair conversation is because
of how vulnerable it is.
And if you know going into it that the chances of your child being forgiving and loving is
(41:13):
very high, it's probably makes it easier for people to go ahead and move forward with
that.
Yeah.
So thanks for sharing that.
Absolutely.
And I think you're absolutely right.
Because just like you said, if you've not never necessarily heard a repair attempt or
an apology to yourself as a child, it can seem incredibly vulnerable and scary to then
(41:36):
go to someone especially if it is kind of naturally in your mind already kind of the
sets parents are here, adults are here and children are down here, that it almost seems
very counter to bring yourself lower who would want to bring yourself lower.
And so some of that is again, that awareness of intentionally going.
(42:00):
This means I really would like to try this.
Yeah, and kind of changing those patterns like you said, and, and that's the same, I
think, in just relationships, you know, with you.
I know your work, you know, with the relationship coaching is that's another big fear point
that I see a lot in relationships is that fear of coming to them and making a repair
(42:20):
attempt and offering an apology because it is vulnerable.
And it is scary to kind of say, Yeah, I wasn't perfect.
Because so many of us, there's this, I think, innate just expectation that we have of ourselves
to be perfect all the time.
And so when we say sorry, that's inevitably us saying that we're not perfect.
(42:43):
And that, for many people is just so uncomfortable.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's
I love that you say that because like, I feel like the whole thread of this whole conversation
is when we are when we're true and vulnerable with our kids, if we have kids, then we get
to teach them, you don't have to be perfect.
(43:07):
And you're still safe when you're not perfect, because you can still fix things.
You can still have those repair conversations.
And I think that is so, so, so important, because we then take those skills, we bring
them into our friendships, we bring them into our relationships when we start dating.
And it really just, it really does set a foundation for how we relate and relationships is all
(43:30):
that life is, in my opinion, like, that's all we're doing all day, we're having relationships
with people.
We're having relationships with even things like food and all that stuff.
And it's like, your your base skills of relating is everything.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I mean, even if we want to take it to kind of more, you know, cold, like you're
(43:53):
having relationships if you're in a job and you know, boss to to worker.
I mean, can you imagine how many employees have actually heard a boss kind of come to
them and say, Hey, I messed up.
I'm so sorry.
Like, how many people like, what?
Yeah, because again, there's that that cultivation that coming and making a repair attempt is
(44:14):
somehow a weakness.
And it's gosh, it actually takes it's actually a strength.
Yeah, it takes a ton of courage to be able to kind of open up and say, Yeah, I wasn't
perfect.
Because like you said, so much of the cultivation thus far, you know, another one of the things
I wish would say is just like you said, more, more acceptance, but we are flawed creatures,
(44:40):
we are deeply flawed.
Yeah, and we are still lovable in those flaws.
And I think that's where we could do so much better as a society is that really allowing
compassion in those flaws instead of the judgment instead of the shame.
Mm hmm.
I love that.
(45:01):
So there are two closing questions I usually ask people at the end.
But before I ask you those, I'm curious if there's anything else you'd like to add in
terms of how parents can prevent generational trauma from being passed on.
Just in case there's something we haven't covered.
If there's anything else, again, I think it's just especially when we're talking if you
(45:27):
do happen to have children or have even a little one in your life, whether it's a niece
or nephew or a friend's child, that means a whole lot that starting with how would I
talk to this child if this child came to me with these things?
Would I tell them all the really mean things that I'm really good at telling myself?
(45:47):
Or would I treat them with a little bit more love and a little bit more compassionate?
That's the answer.
But it's also finding that way to give ourselves permission to get that back to us.
Yes.
And a really great catalyst because when we're seeing the children in real life and imagining
them saying, you know, and imagine saying those mean things to them that we're really
(46:10):
good at saying to ourselves.
Yeah.
Or critiquing ourselves.
It's a lot harder to do that.
And so really kind of using them as a catalyst of a way to give ourselves that same kind
of grace.
Yeah.
You can probably use your own inner child as well as like a practice person to have
certain conversations with.
(46:30):
I find especially if you're not super comfortable with inner child work, it's a little bit harder.
And so sometimes I usually walk it back like I start with somebody externally and then
maybe bring it to an adult that's external still and then slowly walk it back to ourselves
and then to our inner child.
Nice.
(46:51):
Okay, so the first question I'd like I'd love to ask you is what does self love mean
to you?
Self love, I think those things of being able to see ourselves the way that we are.
And I don't want to say flaws because again, I think when we say flaws, there's this connotation
of it being a negative, but really just being able to see all of us in just that curious
(47:15):
way of who are you?
And when we ask those questions, I think it offers an opportunity for self love.
And so for me, it's just really being able to hold ourselves in that curiosity.
Yeah, curiosity gives room for creative solutions to things.
And I love what you said about flaws too, because flaw, like the word flaw, like that's
(47:40):
just a perspective.
And if you say we're flawed, which we are, but also when we say that, then we're like,
okay, but what there's still kind of that, there could be that reaction of like, yeah,
but what is perfect then?
Like I want to be that.
How can I do that?
Yeah.
But a flawed human is a perfect human because that's the only human that exists.
(48:04):
It is.
Absolutely.
The next question is, what is your favorite part about being a woman?
I think for me, something that I've learned is I have a lot more strength than I give
myself credit for.
And I love that about myself.
(48:25):
And one of the ways that I've demonstrated that is because I am a woman and because I
did have children, my second child, well, my first child, I should start there.
He had, he was a high medical needs child, stopped eating at three months old.
And he survived only because of my physical ability to hand express milk into him while
(48:50):
he was sleeping.
And that's the only way he got fed for 18 months.
And that was because I was a woman and was able to do that for him.
And my second child was an unplanned home birth, completely as unmedicated.
You just like went into labor while you were home like without?
Yeah, I knew it was in labor.
(49:11):
I was in labor for quite some time, but it hadn't gotten to the point where the doctors
would say, Hey, it's time for you to come in.
And when it finally did, and I went, you know, I told my partner, Hey, it's time for us to
go.
The very next contraction, I said, No, I have to push.
He's coming now.
Please call 911.
(49:31):
And I did all of this just very like, this is what it is.
You know, my, my spouse is freaking out instead of dialing 911.
He dialed 991 because he was so panicked.
And he freaked out because he was like 911 isn't working.
What's wrong with this?
You know, the entire time I'm just like, this is what it is.
This is what's happening.
Right?
(49:52):
Yeah.
And again, I was able to give birth and figure that out.
And so for me, I've really proven within those times of my motherhood journey that I have
a lot more strength than I give myself credit for.
And sometimes it's hard to remember, but I do.
And some of that came from the fact that I was a woman and I don't think I would have
(50:13):
had those opportunities had I not had them.
That's so cool that you, that was this unexpected home birth and that you were like safe in
it because there's a lot of talk around how it's like not safe and how you like need the
doctors and I understand where that comes from, but thank you for sharing that.
(50:33):
So for the people who are listening, where can they find you?
How can they connect with you and anything you'd like to share about your work?
I would love to hear that.
Yeah.
So best way to find me is through my website, which is embracerenewaltherapy.com and it
has links to podcasts, to resources on there.
(50:54):
I do offer virtual therapy and in-person therapy.
That's all in California as of right now.
I will likely be expanding virtually into a couple more states here in 2025, but I also
offer couples and parenting workshops and those are virtually and those are offered.
(51:15):
Anybody worldwide can attend those.
And so I've got multiple dates that are up on the website.
You can check all of those out there.
Social media, all of that good jazz is on the website.
So that's a great hub.
Nice.
And that will be linked in the show notes or the caption below.
Wonderful.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
I'm going to stop her recording.
Welcome to Openly Spoken, the podcast to help you show up, speak out, and be seen in healthy
(00:18):
relationships.
On this show, we talk about self-love, sexuality, relationship tips, including ending the cycle
of toxic relationships, and healing and thriving after heartbreak.
Hi, I'm your host Cilia and I'm a certified sex, love, and relationship coach helping
ambitious women with a history of toxic relationships feel deeply connected in healthy love.
(00:43):
These are such important topics that every woman deserves, so if you could leave this
show a rating and a review on Apple podcasts or Spotify to help more women find this, it
would mean the absolute world to me.
Thank you so much for being here today.
Now let's dive into the show.
(01:14):
Reesa Morala is a licensed marriage and family therapist in California.
Reesa is the owner of Embrace Renewal Therapy and Wellness Collective and host of The Real
Family Eats.
She is dedicated to being a parenting ally, helping parents create thriving families by
prioritizing their relationships.
Both ventures are aimed with the goal of helping parents feel less alone in hard stuff and
(01:37):
supporting their success as a family.
Thank you so much for being on Openly Spoken today, Risa.
I'm excited to have you here.
Yes, thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
I'm very excited to talk about preventing the passing on of generational trauma.
I know that part of your work is just this really, I would say it's kind of like a perspective
(02:03):
shift for parents to focus on the health of their relationship and putting their marriage
or partnership first before their kids.
Where would you like to start with that?
Gosh, you're absolutely right.
That is definitely a shift, I think, for many parents, whether again, it's something that
(02:25):
they saw generationally.
You talked about how do you navigate some of that, some of what you've seen and what's
seeped in that way, and then creating your new life and what you want it to look like.
So many times I think parents go into it because there is just naturally, I think, just pressure.
(02:46):
You've got this life that's being entrusted into your hands.
It's no longer just your life, it's somebody else.
And so I think instinctually people go, well, I need to spend all my time and focus here
and making sure that this life is fruitful and thriving.
And they often forget about themselves, their own identity gets lost.
(03:07):
And especially if they do have a parent partner, that relationship just really goes to the
back burner.
And it is such a shift.
And then many times the parents come to me and I kind of tell them this, they look at
me like I have 10 heads.
Like what do you mean?
Because it is such a foreign concept to kind of say, it's okay.
In fact, it's very much needed for us to be able to actually create the thriving kids
(03:33):
that we want to have, to have a really strong, solid foundation for them to launch off of.
And that really starts in my opinion, in my experience with us individually and then with
our relationship and that partnership.
Yeah.
I think it's so needed as well because there's just as a relationship coach, I don't have
(03:56):
kids first of all.
So I'm kind of like, how do I navigate this topic from the perspective of someone who
does not have kids?
But as a relationship coach, I feel like I do see that there's just a lack of skill in
being deeply connected in relationships.
And I feel like that might be learned in childhood from witnessing our parents not being connected
(04:22):
with each other because they're putting all the focus on us.
And I'm remembering back when I used to work in a daycare, like almost 10 years ago, and
one of the moms there, she gave me advice.
She's like, let me give you some advice for whenever you decide to become a parent.
And she was like, don't put your kids first, put your marriage first because that will
(04:45):
benefit your kids.
She was like, do not put your kids first.
Please whatever you do, don't do that.
Yeah.
What's really interesting is on my own podcast, I actually interviewed someone who came on
to talk about her journey with empty nesting and her kids leaving the nest, if you will,
and going off and flourishing and having their own lives.
(05:05):
And she said that for her was a real moment where these children left her home and she
was left with just her partner and whatever relationship they had created over the last
however many years.
And that was it.
That's what they were left with.
And so at that point, oftentimes if it's being neglected for those 18 plus years, it probably
(05:29):
isn't super comfortable to now be left with this person who has essentially become a stranger
or a roommate in your house.
And to try to then cultivate something after this however many years of just space and
distance emotionally, mentally from this person, even though physically you're in the same
(05:49):
house, that there's something that could really be missing when we're missing that emotional
component and that connectedness and just this is a partner.
This is a friend, my best friend in fact.
And sometimes that can be when we get in that habit of putting it on the back burner.
It's just when we wake up and we finally have that air because the kids have gone and they
(06:12):
don't necessarily need us in that same way, that's all you have left.
And it can be incredible growing pains when you wake up and you realize, my goodness,
I have to now pick up the pieces and try to make sense of it all.
Yeah.
So if someone is listening that is in that situation where the kids are off in college
(06:37):
and they're just, they don't have, maybe it's like a woman who doesn't have their children's
schedule taking up her whole day.
And now it's just her and her husband and she's kind of like, wait, I don't know this
man.
What would you say to her or where would you have her start?
Yeah.
I think the first question I would want to know is does she even know who she is at that
(07:02):
point as well?
Because you mentioned-
Very important question.
Yeah.
It taking up her whole life.
And that's a very real thing that again, sometimes we don't even know who we are.
And if we don't know who we are, that makes it 10 times more difficult to then communicate
it to the partner about what we want, what our needs are, what our desires are.
And so that would be my first question is, do you know who you are?
(07:26):
And if not, I think really starting there and figuring out who are you, because likely
the person that you are after all those years, again, 18 plus years is probably not the same
person that started dating or got married if they got married to this partner.
And so it's really kind of figuring out what makes you tick and what brings you joy and
(07:49):
what just like really gets the passion and the butterflies going for you.
It may have changed, it likely has changed.
And so then once we have a little bit more understanding of what our needs are, again,
what our desires are.
And I want to make sure to mention having desires is so, so normal.
(08:10):
Sometimes I feel like as a society, we kind of get in this idea that having desires or
having needs is a very selfish thing.
And in fact, it's such the opposite, like we convince ourselves that it's not needed,
but it makes it that much harder to be in a relationship when you don't let those things
in.
(08:31):
Because they're there and if we're just like covering it up, then they come out as
resentments or just feeling unfulfilled.
And so really normalizing one that it's absolutely okay and very much needed to get in tune with
what our desires are and what our deepest needs are.
And then when we can communicate that to that person and starting there, just like, hey,
(08:52):
I would really love to get to know your needs and your desires so that we can then come
back together, really work on that friendship piece first.
And doing it, because oftentimes I find naturally when you start dating someone, there's that
curiosity, who is this person and what do they like and what are they about?
(09:12):
And so we're asking questions kind of naturally when we're dating.
But the minute we kind of get into that comfort, whether it's now we're in a long-term committed
relationship, we've added marriage to the mix, there's almost this like, okay, I know
who this person is.
And then that's it, and we kind of stop getting curious.
And so it's really coming back and almost channeling that curiosity again with this
(09:37):
person that's in front of you and saying, I want to know more.
Not so that I can come at it from like a really judgy perspective, but because I want to know
you, I want to understand what makes your mind tick, if you will.
And as I think that gets cultivated and we can start to nurse that, then naturally some
(09:57):
of that emotional intimacy starts to rebuild.
Yeah.
And like you said earlier about who you are now after the kids have left the nest is different
than when you first started dating.
It's the same thing with your partner.
Like you just said, we ask the questions when we're dating, but then once we're long-term
(10:19):
committed, we stop asking those questions, but they're changing too.
And I think, I'm curious if you ever run into people are maybe afraid to figure out what
those changes are, because like I've seen kind of this kind of narrative of if you change,
it's like bad for the relationship.
(10:40):
You know, it's kind of depicted in movies sometimes too, where it's like, oh, you've
changed, like you're a different person.
And it's kind of depicted as this like negative thing.
Like you have to be the exact same woman I married.
Yes, I can echo that.
I feel like I can just off the top of my head, you know, name a couple that follow that same
(11:04):
storyline.
And you're absolutely right that it is often depicted as kind of a negative thing.
And I think part of that is because sometimes, especially if we haven't necessarily allowed
our self permission to do our own growing and our own changing, that there's almost,
(11:25):
it's more often than not coming from this like almost jealousy piece.
If we really dug deep into kind of what's the function of this feeling kind of I need
to come at you.
It's oftentimes the kind of almost that jealousy of like, wait, it's not fair.
Like why do you get to change?
And you know, maybe you haven't given yourself permission to kind of say, hey, do I have
(11:48):
things that have changed about me?
Or and again, maybe it's something that has kind of been passed down of just when they've
seen change and others, it has been more negative.
And so then there's this perception of that.
If I change, that it could mean that we're not going to get along the way that we used
(12:10):
to.
And if we don't get along the way that we used to, does that mean that you're going
to leave me?
And if you're going to leave me, gosh, that feels really scary.
And I'm going to be left alone.
And so again, I think very much sometimes it either comes from that jealous piece of
just like, oh, I wish I could say the same thing or that I could be in tune with myself.
And sometimes it comes very much from a fear place and trying to like protect ourselves
(12:32):
because there's, you know, our brains can be really good at convincing us that if, oh,
if this happens, could it mean that I get left alone or that this relationship ends?
And the thought of that is way too scary.
So now I'm going to make it about you and you did this, you changed.
(12:53):
I think that also really just meticulously illustrates the passing down of trauma, of
generational trauma, because like you just said, we may not have examples of the past.
So maybe we might have examples from our parents' relationship of when there was change, it
meant a negative thing.
So because we learned that, we learned like, yes, that might be true in that relationship,
(13:18):
but there's also so many other relationships that exist.
But when we are kids, like we just see the one with our parents or our close family caretakers,
we don't see the whole spectrum of relationships.
So then we tend to just kind of operate within those same relationship dynamics.
(13:40):
And the cycle just continues.
It sure does.
You know, and it is, it's easy to kind of fall into that because it is so known.
There's almost a comfort of like, oh, okay, this is what I saw.
This is how to handle this.
That if it's not an intentional choice to kind of learn something different, to go out
(14:05):
and explore something different, it is so incredibly easy to just kind of fall into,
this is what we do.
So this is what I'm going to do.
This is what I know.
And, you know, I can even say just for my own life, I don't know how many times I've
heard from my own parents, well, you know, this is all I know.
(14:27):
And that was the rationalization for whatever action or behavior that was being chosen.
It's kind of some good self-awareness maybe.
They're saying this is all I know instead of like, well, this is the way it is, you
know, and they're like, well, this is all I know.
So yeah, I don't know.
Maybe that's some self-awareness.
Absolutely.
And it could be.
And I think, I think that's, I always tell people, you know, the self-awareness is the
(14:51):
first step and then it becomes a decision.
Do I want to keep doing this?
Or do I want something different?
And then just kind of owning that decision that if you're choosing to, yeah, this is
all I know, I'm not really interested in learning anything else, then that's a decision that
we're making versus, you know, sometimes I think we get really, again, it's very easy
(15:11):
to kind of slip into, well, this is all I know.
So this is, this is what you get.
And that's it.
You know, and, you know, kind of almost saying, you know, it's out of my control.
I have no say in this.
So yeah, absolutely.
So what do you think it takes to be that person that, because like you said earlier, the way
(15:36):
that we are navigating our relationships is very comfortable and going against that brings
up fear.
So what would you say it takes in a person to really break through kind of that pattern
of however it is they are being in their relationship that is causing low levels of emotional intimacy
(15:59):
and connection?
Honestly, I think it first almost kind of takes them hitting whatever their version
of rock bottom, that's enough kind of motivation to say, all right, something's got to give.
Something's got to be different because I can't do this anymore.
And that's going to look different for everybody.
(16:21):
Some people have a higher window of tolerance, if you will, when it comes to just, again,
whether it's a generational thing.
I know for me, for example, my window of tolerance of some of these behaviors was a lot larger.
I come from, you know, an emotionally immature parents, there was a lot of kind of abuse
and chaos in my home.
(16:42):
And so I kind of conditioned as a survival technique of this is just, I have to take
it.
There's no other option.
I have to figure it out.
And as I saw that kind of manifest in my relationships as I grew up was this idea that, well, I can
just take it.
I've taken all of this growing up.
So again, so then my level of BS, if you will, that I was willing to kind of accept in relationships
(17:08):
is a lot larger because I conditioned myself to say, this is just normal, right?
This is what I have to deal with.
And so I think there's different people are going to have different windows of tolerance.
And when you get to a point when you finally say, I don't know what else is out there,
(17:31):
but I know I don't like this.
And I know I want something different.
And I think that's really kind of when we get to that point, then it does allow us a
little bit more capacity to actually start absorbing the information out there of how
to achieve some of that change of patterns, of being willing to start asking some of those
(17:54):
really vulnerable questions.
Because now the want for change is starting to outweigh that fear of change.
And so then it allows just a little bit more ability for us to start going into some of
those vulnerable pieces.
And if you're willing to go in there, I would, my usually recommendation when I'm working
(18:16):
with folks is going in there with as much curiosity and as much compassion as you possibly
can, because it is really scary.
And if we're going in there with like a very judgmental mindset, it's going to be 10 times
scary because we're going to look at every little thing and then we're going to start
judging it.
Oh, I shouldn't do that.
(18:36):
We start using the word should.
Right.
And instead, if we're going in there with curiosity and then tons of compassion that
we can really look at ourselves and almost going into that inner child work of looking
at ourselves as that child of maybe we didn't have that model for us and how can we model
it for ourselves now?
What would that look like?
(18:56):
Yeah.
I love that you brought up inner child work.
It's so important.
I feel like all this relationship stuff, it always leads back to inner child.
And then I call it like inner mother and inner father.
But not everyone has, you know, mother and father.
Some people have two moms, two dads.
(19:18):
There's all these different kinds of relationships, but there's kind of this, what would you call
it, internalized version of your caretakers.
And then that imprint of how you felt as a child is still, could still be very much alive
if those needs were never met.
Yeah, how would you, I feel like there's also maybe a little bit of fear or there's kind
(19:43):
of some people think, oh, that's really weird.
I don't have an inner child or I've even had some friends who I've showed them a photo
of me when I was little.
And I'm like, yeah, I connect with this and asking them if they do it.
And they're like, nah, my, that version of me is like long gone or like dead.
(20:03):
And I'm like, that is so sad.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So for people who think it's like weird and think that, you know, how could that possibly
work because you really are, you really are kind of like using your imagination when you're
connecting with your inner child or internalized caretakers.
(20:23):
Can you speak to how, even though we are using our imagination and even though our childhood
was in the past, how is that still benefiting us in the present and moving forward in our
lives?
Yeah.
That's a great question because it is sometimes when you speak about inner child, you know,
(20:45):
I think so many people are like, oh, that's all this mumbo jumbo and you know, kind of
very, very, very heady stuff.
And what is, what I have found is so important.
And part of the reason usually when I find folks that have said, you know, something
more like you said that my childhood's wrong and is our brains are really good in my opinion
(21:05):
and experience at protecting us.
And so it's likely come having to shut the door on that child has come from a place of
trying to protect us because if we open that door, again, going back to what you mentioned
that fear, that's way too scary.
And our brain goes, no way we're going to go there.
I have chills.
(21:26):
Like my arm hairs are standing up.
Yeah, because it's such a real thing and our brains are going, we need to protect you at
all costs.
And so if it means we need to close the door on that child, so we can't hear that child
screaming, then that's what we have to do because that's, that's too uncomfortable.
That's too much to handle.
If I open it, I don't know if I can get out.
(21:47):
And that takes a lot of energy too, because there's constantly this part of yourself that
you're like shutting up and stuffing down.
Yes.
And I often find that when, when people are finding themselves kind of having emotional
outbursts that they feel that are out of control and they have no idea how it came about and
(22:10):
they feel like they're going from zero to a hundred in a split second, that it's often,
it's that door threatening to come out and it's being triggered in some way, shape or
form and because again, out of a need to protect ourselves, that door has been closed, locked
tight.
We're not aware.
And so there isn't that self-awareness to be able to say, this is what's being triggered
(22:32):
in that moment, because again, we've closed that door off.
So it's still in our body.
It's still in our subconscious.
And that's likely what's coming out in those big emotional bursts.
And that's part of where I would say the benefits are of doing some of that exploration and
starting to open that door up.
It is scary.
And so that's, I would highly recommend making sure that you are with someone who is with
(22:56):
safe that can go in there with you because again, you know, it's like, think about again,
a child trying to go into a dark closet.
If that dark closet is really scary, it feels so much better when you can go in there with
somebody else who has your back, who you know is looking out for you.
And so when, when we go in there, especially if it's not something that you're used to,
(23:18):
or that does feel weird, I would highly recommend making sure that you're, you're, you're starting
that work with somebody that's really safe and trusted.
And once we start to go in there, it does actually using that imagination, like you
said, and really trying to, to connect with that child at whatever age that your brain
said we need to close this off now for our protection, for our survival, we need to close
(23:43):
this off and going into that child.
Honestly, I have found unlocks so much ability to then empathize with the grownup version
of us, because now instead of it's just me overreacting, right?
It's me feeling angry.
Now all of a sudden, if we understand I'm feeling angry because that really reminded
(24:06):
me of this moment where I felt just so abandoned and so unloved.
Now we can look at us as grownups and say, gosh, that makes so much more sense.
Like of course you would feel really angry.
Of course your body would have a reaction because if you're feeling unloved, you're
feeling abandoned.
That doesn't feel great.
(24:27):
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
And now there's a little bit more compassion to ourselves.
And instead of all that, that self hatred, why do you do this?
Oh, you should do something different.
And then once we start being able to access a little bit more of that compassion, then
we can start saying, hey, how can I find safety?
Because safety is really key.
It's really important.
(24:48):
But are there other tools, other ways that I can now find this safety versus just that
whole let me close this off because I don't have any skills, especially when we're talking
about children.
Oftentimes if you're in an environment where you're not necessarily being taught, it's
not something that's generally taught in schools of how to emotionally regulate or how to make
sure that you're building secure attachments.
(25:10):
But those things aren't taught.
And so if you don't have those skills, my goodness, from your ears.
Meditation break in kindergarten.
Yes.
My goodness.
I would love it.
I would jump up and down because I always say my joke is that I would love to be out
of a job because the world is just thriving and just doing its thing and that we're treating
(25:36):
each other with love and kindness and respect.
I would love that.
And so I would celebrate if that happened.
But until then, because it isn't something that's taught, our brain goes, well, closing
this off and cementing it up is really the only way I know how to.
(25:58):
And so now that as we're going in there as adults, especially if you're able to go in
there with somebody that's safe and can really help you explore that, now we can start seeking
safety in other methods that doesn't include just walling things up and kind of forgetting
that it's not there.
And then once someone goes in there with someone who's safe, can you talk about what it means
(26:24):
to reparent yourself?
And maybe some, you know, because you are a mom, maybe some of the unique ways of what
that looks like while you are also parenting little ones.
Well, I can say there is nothing like a trigger as your own child who is now manifesting some
of these behaviors in real time in front of your eyes.
(26:44):
But all of a sudden you're like, oh, did I just say that?
Or hey, did I just handle that that way?
And now seeing it like depicted right in front of you, it's like, oh, I don't think I like
that.
And so it really has challenged me as a parent.
But yes, the reparenting piece and I think reparenting, whether you have children or
not, is so hugely important.
(27:06):
Because like you said, if there are those moments in our life, and sometimes people
think, oh, well, you know, my life was, my childhood was relatively uneventful.
Then they think, you know, I don't really need to do any of that inner child or reparenting.
There's really nothing there.
The difficulty is that again, our brains are really, really good at picking things up.
(27:29):
So even though we don't necessarily look at it and go, oh, it's a big T trauma, right?
There's something like huge and monumental that I can point to.
Your body is likely still reacting to something.
And it could be, you know, just that could even be like a friendship.
Like maybe your friend in kindergarten, right, came up and called you a really mean, nasty
(27:52):
name and it really hurts your feelings.
And then when you went to the teacher or when you went home, that it was just kind of brushed
under under the rug of like, oh, well, you know, like I'm not necessarily coming from
from a bad place or that, you know, we're looking at it and going, oh yeah, that was
huge trauma.
If that could feel invalidating.
(28:13):
And so then our brain sees that.
And then we're really good at kind of feeding that as we grow up.
So then now maybe little events.
Now we're feeding that and it becomes something even bigger that now as adults, it's being
triggered without us even realizing like, oh, that that for me is really emotionally
invalidating.
And when I feel emotionally invalidated, like my body has this like visceral reaction because
(28:36):
it doesn't like that.
And so there's there's all these different ways that unless you have achieved like complete
zen, like highest mindfulness state, there's likely opportunities that your your body and
your brain are being kind of challenged in some way, shape or form.
And so that's really that re-parenting piece is going in there and taking a look at maybe
(28:58):
what, again, not that we're looking at it as saying that this was someone else was intentionally
doing this to like, make our lives miserable.
However, it doesn't mean that that's not how that our bodies didn't receive that and react
and kind of hold on to that in some way, shape or form.
And so really going on there and exploring that again with curiosity, with that compassion.
(29:22):
And then as as we do that, it's now when that opportunity presents again, when that particular
thing is being challenged, that we have that opportunity to be that intervention that our
child self felt like we didn't get.
And each time that we do that, and now so for example, if it's the emotional invalidation,
(29:45):
let's say, and now you have an opportunity as an adult, you've done some of that work,
is that awareness, hey, I know this is something that I'm working with.
And now there's an opportunity where someone challenges and maybe starts to, we're starting
to feel emotionally invalidated again, where maybe previously we would just take it and
be like, oh, it is what it is.
(30:07):
And then that builds up into something explosive, you know, after enough.
But we take that opportunity instead of just saying, oh, well, it is what it is actually
stepping up and saying, hey, that didn't feel great.
You know, oh, that gosh, that that really hurt when I heard you say that, or I felt
really invalidated when that happened.
(30:28):
And then we speak the need and we say what I would really appreciate is, is when I share
these things with you, if you could just, you know, maybe put down the phone and really
hear the words that I have to say, that would feel amazing, would you be willing to do that?
And all of a sudden we have stepped up for that child that didn't have a voice back then.
(30:50):
And that's that re-parenting piece that now that inner child is starting to see there
is someone that does have my back.
And little by little, now we have a little bit more confidence to say it and to say it
again and to stick up for ourselves and, and really start to maybe have the confidence
that we do deserve our needs to be met.
(31:12):
And we do deserve our needs to be heard.
And those are the pieces and the components where we're, we're re-parenting that inner
child to say, you too deserve these things and hey, I'm going to stick up for you.
I love that everyone needs that.
We do.
And, and again, like you said, with, with it being a child sometimes, you know, as a
(31:34):
parent rather than when we have our own children and you know, that does get challenged of
maybe the instinct is to also tell them what is what a day is like, move on, grow up.
You know, really stopping again.
And just as we would maybe want to reach out to our child with, with more compassion than
(31:56):
maybe we've received before more love.
It's really being able to also offer that to ourselves too.
Yeah.
And so the breaking of the cycle of passing on trauma begins.
Yes.
And it's a minutely decision.
So I don't want to say that lightly because I know there's, you know, in high level, it's
(32:18):
like, I should be able to do that.
And it's really hard.
And it is a minutely decision.
And so, you know, anybody listening, I just want you to know, I don't expect this to happen
overnight.
And then it does take a lot of, a lot of grace of like, okay, even if maybe I tried it one
time and it didn't go great, we can say, okay, let's try it again.
(32:39):
Yeah.
I think it's maybe also important because of the wording of reparenting to not treat
it as like your parents did a really bad job and to like blame your parents for the triggers
you have now.
Because even people with really great parents who had the best intentions and maybe, you
(33:01):
know, had really high emotional intelligence, even those parents live in this society where
we have to work a lot, where in my opinion, I think we work a lot more, like we work way
too much to be able to also invest in the nurturing of like a newborn until like five
(33:23):
years old, for example.
Like that time newborn to five years old, most people, if they're, unless they're lucky
enough to have like stay at home, one of them stays at home or they have, you know, the
resources to have support, a lot of people have to go back to work when their baby is
like not even able to hold up their head.
(33:46):
And so I think it's really important to also mention that this is very layered and there's
so many different things affecting the way your parents were able to parent you aside
from their own trauma.
Like it's like the world around us as well and the systems around us and you know, in
(34:08):
whether or not you live in a location in the world where the city or government gives support
to parents.
Like I have a friend in Ireland who gets like money every month specifically for like food
and diapers for her babies.
And it's like, I have, I have family in Europe too.
And it's not based on like, if you have low income, it's like everyone gets it.
(34:29):
But like postpartum support, like it's, it's like a standard because they see the value
in like investing in their next generations.
And so I think that's also an important thing to look at.
Absolutely.
And I think what I wanted to highlight that you mentioned is the support and resources
that he has even for a stay at home parent.
(34:51):
If there isn't, yes, I meant physically be there, but if there isn't that support and
resources for them to be able to have a moment to have a break that that can lead to really,
really quick burnout.
You know, we talk more information is coming out about postpartum and kind of the toll
that it takes, but even, even you might physically be there, but if there's not enough emotional
(35:17):
support and mental support, you might be checked out.
So again, not because you're doing it with ill intentions, but you're sitting there and
going, how can I like destroy this child's, you know, future?
I don't think that anybody goes into it like that.
And so absolutely it's not necessarily coming from a place of shame.
There's enough shame out here in the world, the society that we live in is so good at
(35:40):
shaming us.
We don't need to add to it.
Absolutely.
It's very much right.
And so it is about that support and resources.
And when those things aren't in place, you know, that it does, it limits parents' capacities
to be able to completely attune.
And like you said, they, they might be reading all the books and trying all the things.
(36:02):
And in fact, that's something I tell my kids or my, my parents all the time is we're going
to mess up our children.
We are, that's, you know, we just get to decide kind of in what ways, you know, I know, you
know, my, my partner and I have two children.
We joke all the time when something happens or we mess up because again, I'm a therapist,
I live and breathe this all day, all day long.
(36:23):
I mess up all the time.
Yeah.
And so, you know, what I do, it's, it's finding that, Oh, yep, my children are definitely
going to be talking to a future therapist about this one.
Great.
You know, and so, you know, finding, finding those opportunities because I, I am going
to mess up, you know, we are going to mess up.
(36:44):
And so, yes, but absolutely, I would agree that the reparenting isn't, isn't an opportunity,
isn't meant to kind of, again, let's, let's point fingers here.
It's really kind of, again, just figuring out because it could, maybe it was a parent
interaction again, like maybe it was just another adult that was in our life, but again,
(37:06):
they're not necessarily looking at it as this is, you know, I'm looking to screw up this
child because I imagine if anybody had, you know, a magic predictor and said, Hey, if
you say this to the kid, you're truly going to mess them up.
Most people would probably hear that and be like, Oh, okay, like, let me divert and do
something different, you know, that we're not going into it with, with ill intentions
(37:27):
many times.
And, and that's the same, I think also with just acknowledging that there's also some
cultural, I see it a lot of in my immigrant families where maybe their parents, right,
came from a different country and now they're living in a different one.
And so now society and what's accepted is very different.
Yeah, then maybe what's what's passed down.
(37:49):
And so, again, you know, I come so I'm Filipino American.
And so, you know, the Filipinos were at least the way that I was raised, you know, there's
also a component of mental health is not something that it's at the forefront.
It's really survival.
Yeah.
And so, and that moment, they're not sitting down and having a heart to heart with me about
(38:10):
my emotions and how I'm experiencing things.
It's like,
Sorry, I yelled at you, you know, like, our conversations.
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah.
And so I think there's a lot of layers.
And so again, with the reparenting, it's really not about that.
It's just you wanting to kind of go in and taking care of yourself and offering you yourself
(38:32):
some of these opportunities to heal.
If you would like them.
Yeah.
I can so relate to you with the immigrant upbringing as well.
I was born in Germany, my mom is German.
And then my stepdad and my mom married when I was two and he raised me.
And he's from Pakistan and in their culture, it's just like, Dad is in charge.
(38:54):
It's an authoritarian household.
You don't talk back, you're going to listen to what he says and there's no repair conversations.
And it's been very beautiful to go on this journey of like having compassion for that
and just being like, that's the culture that he came from.
Like he did not know any better instead of being like angry.
(39:18):
And I think what's so beautiful about opening up that compassion, it really shows you like
how much love you had in your heart already as a child.
And like no one had to teach you to love you were just born that way.
And I think it's so, so beautiful.
(39:39):
And I love that you mentioned that because I would absolutely echo children are some
of the most forgiving creatures on this planet.
And that's where I think, again, going back to where I live as far as my specialty and
why I'm so passionate about it is that if we have more resources and more support for
(40:03):
these parents to be able to nurture themselves, nurture their relationships, it offers them
more capacity to be able to come back to these children.
And even though you've messed up 50 times coming back 50 times and saying, like you
said, a repair attempt and saying, Hey, gosh, that did not go the way I wanted it to.
(40:25):
I want to do better.
I want to say sorry.
And the likelihood that your child is going to turn around and say, okay, okay, mommy,
okay, daddy, and give you a great big hug and want to move forward with you is super
high.
And so being able to kind of know that children in general, like you said, are very loving
(40:46):
and very forgiving.
And it's just giving them the opportunity to show us and to also show them.
That's such a great point to make because again, I don't have kids, but I would imagine
that some of the reason why some parents would not have the repair conversation is because
of how vulnerable it is.
And if you know going into it that the chances of your child being forgiving and loving is
(41:13):
very high, it's probably makes it easier for people to go ahead and move forward with
that.
Yeah.
So thanks for sharing that.
Absolutely.
And I think you're absolutely right.
Because just like you said, if you've not never necessarily heard a repair attempt or
an apology to yourself as a child, it can seem incredibly vulnerable and scary to then
(41:36):
go to someone especially if it is kind of naturally in your mind already kind of the
sets parents are here, adults are here and children are down here, that it almost seems
very counter to bring yourself lower who would want to bring yourself lower.
And so some of that is again, that awareness of intentionally going.
(42:00):
This means I really would like to try this.
Yeah, and kind of changing those patterns like you said, and, and that's the same, I
think, in just relationships, you know, with you.
I know your work, you know, with the relationship coaching is that's another big fear point
that I see a lot in relationships is that fear of coming to them and making a repair
(42:20):
attempt and offering an apology because it is vulnerable.
And it is scary to kind of say, Yeah, I wasn't perfect.
Because so many of us, there's this, I think, innate just expectation that we have of ourselves
to be perfect all the time.
And so when we say sorry, that's inevitably us saying that we're not perfect.
(42:43):
And that, for many people is just so uncomfortable.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's
I love that you say that because like, I feel like the whole thread of this whole conversation
is when we are when we're true and vulnerable with our kids, if we have kids, then we get
to teach them, you don't have to be perfect.
(43:07):
And you're still safe when you're not perfect, because you can still fix things.
You can still have those repair conversations.
And I think that is so, so, so important, because we then take those skills, we bring
them into our friendships, we bring them into our relationships when we start dating.
And it really just, it really does set a foundation for how we relate and relationships is all
(43:30):
that life is, in my opinion, like, that's all we're doing all day, we're having relationships
with people.
We're having relationships with even things like food and all that stuff.
And it's like, your your base skills of relating is everything.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I mean, even if we want to take it to kind of more, you know, cold, like you're
(43:53):
having relationships if you're in a job and you know, boss to to worker.
I mean, can you imagine how many employees have actually heard a boss kind of come to
them and say, Hey, I messed up.
I'm so sorry.
Like, how many people like, what?
Yeah, because again, there's that that cultivation that coming and making a repair attempt is
(44:14):
somehow a weakness.
And it's gosh, it actually takes it's actually a strength.
Yeah, it takes a ton of courage to be able to kind of open up and say, Yeah, I wasn't
perfect.
Because like you said, so much of the cultivation thus far, you know, another one of the things
I wish would say is just like you said, more, more acceptance, but we are flawed creatures,
(44:40):
we are deeply flawed.
Yeah, and we are still lovable in those flaws.
And I think that's where we could do so much better as a society is that really allowing
compassion in those flaws instead of the judgment instead of the shame.
Mm hmm.
I love that.
(45:01):
So there are two closing questions I usually ask people at the end.
But before I ask you those, I'm curious if there's anything else you'd like to add in
terms of how parents can prevent generational trauma from being passed on.
Just in case there's something we haven't covered.
If there's anything else, again, I think it's just especially when we're talking if you
(45:27):
do happen to have children or have even a little one in your life, whether it's a niece
or nephew or a friend's child, that means a whole lot that starting with how would I
talk to this child if this child came to me with these things?
Would I tell them all the really mean things that I'm really good at telling myself?
(45:47):
Or would I treat them with a little bit more love and a little bit more compassionate?
That's the answer.
But it's also finding that way to give ourselves permission to get that back to us.
Yes.
And a really great catalyst because when we're seeing the children in real life and imagining
them saying, you know, and imagine saying those mean things to them that we're really
(46:10):
good at saying to ourselves.
Yeah.
Or critiquing ourselves.
It's a lot harder to do that.
And so really kind of using them as a catalyst of a way to give ourselves that same kind
of grace.
Yeah.
You can probably use your own inner child as well as like a practice person to have
certain conversations with.
(46:30):
I find especially if you're not super comfortable with inner child work, it's a little bit harder.
And so sometimes I usually walk it back like I start with somebody externally and then
maybe bring it to an adult that's external still and then slowly walk it back to ourselves
and then to our inner child.
Nice.
(46:51):
Okay, so the first question I'd like I'd love to ask you is what does self love mean
to you?
Self love, I think those things of being able to see ourselves the way that we are.
And I don't want to say flaws because again, I think when we say flaws, there's this connotation
of it being a negative, but really just being able to see all of us in just that curious
(47:15):
way of who are you?
And when we ask those questions, I think it offers an opportunity for self love.
And so for me, it's just really being able to hold ourselves in that curiosity.
Yeah, curiosity gives room for creative solutions to things.
And I love what you said about flaws too, because flaw, like the word flaw, like that's
(47:40):
just a perspective.
And if you say we're flawed, which we are, but also when we say that, then we're like,
okay, but what there's still kind of that, there could be that reaction of like, yeah,
but what is perfect then?
Like I want to be that.
How can I do that?
Yeah.
But a flawed human is a perfect human because that's the only human that exists.
(48:04):
It is.
Absolutely.
The next question is, what is your favorite part about being a woman?
I think for me, something that I've learned is I have a lot more strength than I give
myself credit for.
And I love that about myself.
(48:25):
And one of the ways that I've demonstrated that is because I am a woman and because I
did have children, my second child, well, my first child, I should start there.
He had, he was a high medical needs child, stopped eating at three months old.
And he survived only because of my physical ability to hand express milk into him while
(48:50):
he was sleeping.
And that's the only way he got fed for 18 months.
And that was because I was a woman and was able to do that for him.
And my second child was an unplanned home birth, completely as unmedicated.
You just like went into labor while you were home like without?
Yeah, I knew it was in labor.
(49:11):
I was in labor for quite some time, but it hadn't gotten to the point where the doctors
would say, Hey, it's time for you to come in.
And when it finally did, and I went, you know, I told my partner, Hey, it's time for us to
go.
The very next contraction, I said, No, I have to push.
He's coming now.
Please call 911.
(49:31):
And I did all of this just very like, this is what it is.
You know, my, my spouse is freaking out instead of dialing 911.
He dialed 991 because he was so panicked.
And he freaked out because he was like 911 isn't working.
What's wrong with this?
You know, the entire time I'm just like, this is what it is.
This is what's happening.
Right?
(49:52):
Yeah.
And again, I was able to give birth and figure that out.
And so for me, I've really proven within those times of my motherhood journey that I have
a lot more strength than I give myself credit for.
And sometimes it's hard to remember, but I do.
And some of that came from the fact that I was a woman and I don't think I would have
(50:13):
had those opportunities had I not had them.
That's so cool that you, that was this unexpected home birth and that you were like safe in
it because there's a lot of talk around how it's like not safe and how you like need the
doctors and I understand where that comes from, but thank you for sharing that.
(50:33):
So for the people who are listening, where can they find you?
How can they connect with you and anything you'd like to share about your work?
I would love to hear that.
Yeah.
So best way to find me is through my website, which is embracerenewaltherapy.com and it
has links to podcasts, to resources on there.
(50:54):
I do offer virtual therapy and in-person therapy.
That's all in California as of right now.
I will likely be expanding virtually into a couple more states here in 2025, but I also
offer couples and parenting workshops and those are virtually and those are offered.
(51:15):
Anybody worldwide can attend those.
And so I've got multiple dates that are up on the website.
You can check all of those out there.
Social media, all of that good jazz is on the website.
So that's a great hub.
Nice.
And that will be linked in the show notes or the caption below.
Wonderful.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
I'm going to stop her recording.
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