Exploring Brain Spotting for Trauma Release with Valerie Rubin

Valerie Rubin is an attachment specialist & trauma informed coach who helps people heal their anxious attachment style so they can become a match for healthy, secure love.

In this conversation, we explore Valerie's transformative journey from childhood trauma to healing through various modalities, including hypnotherapy and somatic coaching. We discuss the impact of emotional unavailability in childhood, the importance of understanding and regulating the nervous system, and the role of the vagus nerve in emotional health.

Valerie shares her experiences with codependency and relationship dynamics, emphasizing the need to meet one's own needs and the significance of sensations in recognizing emotional triggers.

The discussion also introduces brain spotting as a powerful tool for healing trauma and highlights the importance of self-awareness in relationships.

Connect with Valerie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/healwithval/

Find her resourceful freebies & people pleasing masterclass here: stan.store/healwithval

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Connect with Cilia: https://www.instagram.com/selfexpressedbabe/

Downloadable resources to start your journey to healthy love: https://selfexpressedbabe.com/resources/

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/yc87al3wYr8

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I love that. It's a really good one. Good for grounding. I'm recording already.

(00:12):
Welcome to Openly Spoken, the podcast to help you show up, speak out, and be seen. On this podcast,
we talk about self-love, relationships, sexuality, spirituality, and more. Hi, I am your host, Cilia
Antoniou, and I am a relationship and sexuality coach for ambitious women with a history of
toxic relationships who desire to reconnect to their sensuality and who desire to feel worthy

(00:37):
of receiving healthy love. I celebrate you for hitting play on today's episode. I hope that you
find this very supportive and helpful. And if you could show some support to the podcast by hitting
subscribe on YouTube or on Apple podcasts or on Spotify, wherever it is that you are listening to
or watching this episode, it would mean the absolute world to me. Thank you so much for

(01:01):
being here. Now let's dive into today's episode.
Valerie Rearbon is an anxious attachment specialist and trauma-informed coach who helps people heal

(01:23):
their anxious attachment style so they can become a match for healthy, secure love. She utilizes
RTT Hypnotherapy, Somatic IFS, Brain Spotting, and Nervous System Regulation with her clients.
She is also the host of the Anxiety Recovery Podcast. This is my first time having a guest who,

(01:48):
we serve the same client and we give our client the same thing. We just have different modalities
that we use. So I'm like, so I'm, my like face hurts from smiling. I'm so excited.
Me too. I'm so excited to dive in. This is going to be absolutely amazing.
Yes. So let's, let's begin with your story and tell us a little bit about

(02:14):
how you've landed into the work that you do today.
Okay. Yes. So I almost wanted to, I initially found myself saying like short story short,
but I'm like, let's make it long story long. Okay. Yeah. We have a 90 minute time blocked out for
this. So let's do it. Yes, absolutely. So for me, I grew up with two very emotionally unavailable

(02:40):
parents. You know, my mother was very codependent, stuck in her phone response and my dad was a
narcissist and he had multiple sclerosis. And then one of my siblings has autism and a very like high
level of care needed. So I learned as a child to make myself small, to try to kind of turn down the

(03:04):
chaos by turning down my own internal chaos. And that led to me suppressing my own emotions.
And then in adulthood, that really led to a lot of health issues like IBS, I had all the symptoms of
fibromyalgia. I had chronic pain. You know, I was in my early twenties and I felt like I was stuck

(03:26):
in a 90 year olds body because I had so much inflammation. It started with headaches, chronic
neck pain, stomach problems, really everywhere was inflamed. And then I started to break out with
acne because, you know, inflammation is just a warning sign. You know, autoimmune conditions

(03:49):
is really signs that you've been suppressing something for too long. Your body is trying to
get your attention. And so then in my early twenties, I was miss overachiever. I would,
you know, work 16, 18 hours a day. I was stuck in workaholism to try to continuously avoid these

(04:09):
feelings. And then it got to a point where the health issues were just so bad and the anxiety
was so bad. I was seeing a talk therapist. I was doing that for years. And then it just continued
to have me feel stuck. And I was still stuck in toxic relationships, just a lot of relationships

(04:30):
that were filled with the same dynamics from childhood because, you know, our brain or nervous
systems are wired for the familiar. Our brain hates change. So it will always go towards a familiar
hell versus an unfamiliar heaven. So, you know, that made relationships quite...
I love that analogy.
Yeah, they made, you know, my relationships quite turbulent. And so I, and then I was very

(04:55):
codependent. And I was so stuck in this mentality that a relationship or a job is going to help me
feel safe and get out of this chronic anxiety. And that just wasn't the case. And then I found
my first hypnotherapist. And that finally led me to reduce my anxiety that was so high. It really

(05:18):
helped me to unlearn a lot of these unconscious beliefs of feeling like I wasn't good enough,
you know, based on my upbringing, based on my parents' emotional unavailability, I started to
internalize that as something's wrong with me, something's not good, I'm not good enough. I'm
not worthy of love. I'm not deserving of love exactly as I am. And so hypnotherapy allowed me

(05:41):
to actually finally quiet my mind and learn how to reduce my anxiety. And then within six months,
the anxiety become much more reduced, the chronic pain went away completely. It was absolutely
insane. I felt the most free I've ever felt truly. And then I was feeling really good. And then I

(06:05):
landed in another relationship with someone who was a covert narcissist. And I was, I didn't even
fully realize that he was a narcissist at the time. And I didn't realize that I was trauma bonded
because of my past wounds that were resurfaced of codependency, feeling anxiously attached.

(06:26):
And really, ultimately, what anxiously attached means is you're chronically in a state of fight
or flight. And so then once you know, it felt when I started to date him, the love bombing,
everything I ever wanted, I felt oh, I was finally in this secure relationship. And then things went
really, really fast. We moved in six months into like dating, which was absolute no, no, four months,

(06:55):
four months, which is absolutely insane. And to me, as someone who was anxiously attached,
that felt soothing to my nervous system. It felt like it soothed my fear of abandonment. Because
if we live together, oh, he can't leave me. And so yeah, which is like absolutely insane.
So I'm laughing because it's relatable. Yeah, it is. It is. And a lot of people are

(07:21):
in this unconscious dynamic. And it was so unconscious to me. And then it was like these
high highs and low lows. We would like break up for a day or he would talk about his feelings of
wanting to break up with me. And just the criticism even he was so particular even about the
dishwasher, like the dishwasher had to be a certain way. He wanted me to chop an onion a certain way.

(07:43):
He would criticize me for that. Just any any little thing, it would be criticism. But it was
really just an expression of how my inner world was that was so unconscious, because that's how I was
unconsciously treating myself. And so yeah, and so then, and then he ultimately discarded me because

(08:05):
with narcissists, there is a narcissistic abuse cycle, which we can go through. But ultimately,
towards the end, the last step is the discarding phase where they find a new supply or they discard
you. And so we broke up and I was so heartbroken and debilitated in my own pain and abandonment
wounds all came to the surface. And so what ended up happening was I was working with a coach at the

(08:30):
time and she was like, I think you're trauma bonded and I think he's a covert narcissist.
And that was so shocking to me. And I ultimately started to finally take part of all the roles that
I was playing in my own suffering because it was all me. Our relationships are just a reflection
of our internal world. We will not accept anything less than what our nervous system feels familiar

(08:56):
and safe with. And so as I said, what you said earlier about like the way he was treating you
was how you were unconsciously treating yourself. Like, yeah, straights that. Yeah. Yes, absolutely.
And then, you know, I started to work with a somatic coach and it was absolutely mind boggling

(09:16):
the results that I was having. And at that time, you know, she was like, you need to be single for
six months, no dating, no flirting, nothing to a pre like a recovered codependent. I like now I was
like back then I was like, Oh my God, like, how am I going to do this? And I rigorously like had to

(09:37):
tell myself, No, I'm not going to repeat this pattern again. And so I learned a lot about the
nervous system, you know, fight, flight, freeze, fawn, what was triggering me into that, that was
keeping me in this relationship. And then I also learned how to stimulate my vagus nerve ultimately
because I was carrying so much trauma in my body and my nervous system. I like my vagus nerve

(10:03):
stopped functioning properly. And, and that's really what ends up happening. If you've been
exposed to chronic stress or trauma, your vagus nerve stop functioning, functioning properly,
this leads to those gut issues, health issues, chronic anxiety, the vagus nerve controls whether
or not your fight or flight system turns on. So when I started to learn how to stimulate it through

(10:27):
breath work, meditation, doing different somatic exercises, then it helped me to dial down even
more on this anxiety. And so even I did a somatic, you know, session, a somatic, it's called somatic
IFS somatic parts work, which stands for IFS stands for internal family systems. It's really just

(10:49):
looking at the different parts of you that are causing you to stay stuck in your life,
these patterns that are causing you to stay anxious, codependent, people pleasing in your
relationships. It causes you to look at what is this need meeting and how can I meet that for myself
includes inner child healing. And I had it was about a few months after this relationship ended.

(11:13):
And, you know, I did this somatic coach coaching session, the somatic parts work session,
and I had this huge craving to reach out to my ex, I really just wanted to reach out to him.
But I was like, this other part of me knew that's not a good idea.
That's not a good idea.
Seduciatum is creeping up.

(11:34):
Yes, yes, it was just that part of me was looking to just continue to heal my inner child because
all of that was popping up to the surface. So what ended up happening was,
in this coaching session, I uncovered a memory where my mom left me when I in really ultimately,

(11:56):
I felt abandoned when I was really upset, you know, and things like that. And I was so young
at the time, I was four years old in this memory. When you're four years old, you do not know how to
regulate your own nervous system or self soothe, you are dependent on your caregiver to help soothe
you. And so when you don't have that, it becomes very dysfunctional. And that's where a lot of this

(12:19):
anxiety stems from. It's just these suppressed energies and emotions that are stuck. And so as
I'm diving deeper into this coaching session, I'm noticing, wow, this feeling, this craving that I
have for my ex is the exact feeling I had when I was four years old waiting for my mom to come back.
Wow. Absolutely insane.

(12:41):
That makes sense.
Yeah. And so it was just absolutely crazy. But ultimately, so, you know, when I, so going a few
steps backward. So when I had that realization about the anxiety and when hypnotherapy was really
helping me, I decided to ditch my plan of getting my PhD in clinical psychology, because, you know,

(13:03):
hypnotherapy and these somatic modalities were helping me much more than the talk therapy that
I had in the past. And so I was doing hypnotherapy and coaching. And it was really helping people with
anxiety. But what was keeping them stuck was their current relationships, toxic relationships,
trauma bonds, everything really in the body, even at a deeper level. So when this breakup happened,

(13:27):
I started to learn a lot of these somatic modalities called brain spotting, somatic IFS,
you know, learning all about the vagus nerve, nervous system, nervous system regulation,
you know, all of that, as well as somatic therapy. And so once I really learned all of that and
started to experience these own modalities on myself, that's how I really switched to

(13:53):
anxious attachment, because people were getting stuck and weren't getting results because of the
relationships and dynamics that their body felt familiar with. And you can't think or talk yourself
out of an anxious state or to a secure attachment, you have to rewire your body, your brain,
your nervous system. And so the somatic modalities really allowed me to do that. And, and, you know,

(14:18):
I never broke no contact, you know, after we broke up. And, you know, I was able to get into a healthy
relationship after that. And my life has been so much better. And I get to help people now,
through all of this, but it was a huge, huge transformation for me. And as you can see, you
know, I'm not struggling with, you know, all these breakouts on my face, I'm not wearing makeup, I

(14:42):
don't have chronic pain anymore. And it's just a completely different life when you work with the
body.
Mm hmm. Yes. Your story is so relatable.
I hear that. Yeah, yeah.
I remember there were like so many parts that you shared where I'm like, like, these are some

(15:04):
threads I wanted to like, pull out. Yes, I know I shared so much. But yeah, so relatable with like,
when you are not speaking up for yourself, and you're not sharing what you really want to share,
and you're holding so much in your body finds other ways to express itself by having actually

(15:28):
pop up the same thing happened to me or having inflammation, like that's your body trying to
express yourself to express itself, because you're not doing it through your voice. I thought that
was an interesting thread. And I've been there myself. Let's get into you, you talked about how
your vagus nerves stopped working. And there might be people listening who are like, what?

(15:53):
What is that? You mentioned that the vagus nerve is something that regulates your fight or flight
response. Yes. What else would you share with someone listening who is like hearing about the
vagus nerve for the first time? Yeah, so ultimately, the vagus nerve is controlling whether or not your
fight or flight system is turned on. So if you are chronically in a state of fight or flight,

(16:16):
if you're chronically anxious, if you're chronically depressed, that's really giving
anxious if you're chronically depressed, that's really giving me a signal that it's, it's perking
my ears up that your vagus nerve is not functioning optimally, because your vagus nerve is wired to
bring you back into homeostasis. And it connects from your, you know, brainstem all the way to,

(16:42):
like all throughout your spine, your spinal cord, like all throughout your body. And so it regulates
all these different things in the body like mucus production, your digestion, even like frequency
of urination, like a lot of clients, what when you're really anxious, you'll pee a lot, you'll
go to the bathroom a lot, it's because your vagus nerve isn't functioning at an optimal level. And

(17:03):
so really simple ways that you can stimulate your vagus nerve is through breathwork, humming,
singing, gargling, like gargling, even like mouthwash or saltwater. You know, so many different
like somatic exercises as well. It's very powerful, and it can help you to stimulate that. So now your

(17:25):
body, body's new baseline is regulation, you're able to regulate yourself, you're able to come
back into your parasympathetic nervous system, meaning you're able to come back to a relaxed state.
And then you naturally, in relationships, will feel uncomfortable or get the ick from someone who is

(17:47):
emotionally unavailable or isn't in that same nervous system state. Because it's not familiar
with you anymore. Yeah, yeah. And also your needs are completely, like your subconscious needs are
completely different. Like you're no longer looking for like when you shared that you had this craving
to reach out for your ex because doing the internal family systems work, like your inner child was

(18:10):
popping up. And that like same craving from when you were four for your mom was what was coming up,
because that's what we're doing when we're dating, we're like trying to meet unmet needs in childhood.
But when you do this kind of work, you start to meet your own needs, whether on your own, or

(18:30):
I think there are also a few needs that you can meet, like speaking from a personal level.
For someone that has like a mother wound, there's a lot of needs that like I needed from my mother
that I get now either from myself or from my relationships with other women, like who are
able to really like witness you. And then you go into dating, meeting completely different things

(18:54):
that are more aligned with having a healthy relationship, not something that's codependent.
Absolutely. And codependency is ultimately just a sign that you struggle to self suit because,
you know, yes, that's such a simple way to put it. I love it. It really is. It's like codependency.

(19:15):
And if you're listening to this, and you're like, what is codependency? What does that mean?
A lot of my clients describe it as if my partner is safe, I'm safe. If my partner's having a bad day,
I'm having a bad day. And so then that becomes such an awful way to live your life, because now
your safety is entirely dependent on someone else's mood and behavior. And yeah, I love that you

(19:39):
mentioned meeting your own needs. Because if you don't know how to mention your meet mention, if
you do not know how to meet your own needs, it's going to be hard to even get your needs met in a
relationship because you don't know your needs. You don't know how to meet them yourself. So how
can someone else do that for you? And a lot of a lot of people even tell me that they don't even

(19:59):
know what their needs are. And it's important to learn. Also, it's like, what do you frequently
most complain about? When you realize that your complaints are a doorway into your unmet needs.
That's gonna be very helpful for at least one person listening.
Absolutely.

(20:20):
Your complaints are doorway for your unmet needs. I love that. Yeah.
Also, like you welcome. People also don't know like what they even value sometimes or desire or
like, like it's it's needs. And it's just, I feel like when you're unregulated, you don't even know

(20:40):
who you are. Absolutely. Because when especially like if we're talking about trauma, and anxiety,
they create such a small life. Because like a lot of people they have symptoms of like agoraphobia,
they're so anxious, they don't even want to leave their house, then that creates and now you're
avoiding the triggers, you're avoiding going to the grocery store, you're avoiding dating,

(21:04):
because you're you don't know how to self regulate. So then your life becomes very, very small.
You aren't able to expand because you don't have capacity to expand, you're too dysregulated.
And so it's important to learn how to meet your needs to learn how to self regulate.
Because if not, you're going to have a very, very small life.

(21:26):
Yeah, yeah. I always wonder if there's any like, and I wonder what you think about this,
if there's any like maybe pre, what do you call that when you're like born with a certain trait?
Preconception?
Preconceived.
Or inherited?

(21:46):
Inherited traits to to be willing to do because what you just said about it creating such a small
life, I think a lot of people are comfortable in that small life, because looking at your past,

(22:08):
and what you need to heal is terrifying for a lot of people. So they would rather
not do it. And then they like, I don't know, I just want I wonder about if our people just
born like, okay, I'm good with that. Or are some people born in a way where they're where they see

(22:32):
things like that, because this is how I am, I see something that I'm scared of. And I go towards it,
because I know that's gonna help me grow. And I've always been like that for some reason.
And I know like, oh, that's that over there is scary. So let's go towards it. So I'm not scared
of it. And then I can move on to the next thing, because I don't want to be scared of life.

(22:55):
Yeah, I feel I feel like that's a great question of like, is that something that's inherited or
not? I feel like also it's like depends on your personality, and also your attachment system. And
I'm sure you've done a ton of work on yourself. So that reflects and how much you're willing to
go toward your emotions towards your looking at your past, even though that feels scary, because

(23:17):
I'm very much like you, Cilia, like my parents, like, my mom would see talk therapists. And while
that can be helpful, it never got to the root of her issues. You know, my parents went through a
separation in 2021, or something like that. And she finally realized, oh, all and her therapist

(23:38):
older, oh, the all these, like signs that she was described that my mom was describing were signs of
emotional abuse. And instead of my mom, like, looking at that in the face and leaving, she
decided to switch therapists. And it's like, yeah, yeah, she decided to switch therapists. And yeah,
and she's still in that. And so it's like, that is her choice unconscious or conscious. But also,

(24:04):
it's like, I have always been like you, or I'm like, if there's something in my way, I'm going to look
at it dead in the face, even when I was really young, even when I was really young, I always was
like, I don't want to live the life that my parents lived, where their life was so small. Like even my
my father, he's also an entrepreneur, he owns his own business. And when my brothers were born,

(24:27):
they're two years older than me, he decided to, you know, leave his business and get a job. And
now he only does his business, he only did his business part time, because he just didn't fully
believe in himself. But yeah, I also think, like, if you're avoidant attached, if we want to call,
if you're more avoidantly attached, if we want to use that label, they will move away from that

(24:50):
discomfort, they won't look at that in the face versus maybe someone who's more anxious or secure,
they're going to move toward the threat because they want to, you know, create a different length.
Yeah. Yeah, I had someone on the podcast recently talked about anxious attachment,
she was talking about how people with anxious attachments are usually the people doing something

(25:15):
to fix a relationship. And it's the closest to secure before that reason, because they're like,
okay, something's wrong. Like, let's let's fix this. I thought that was interesting.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, they'll go toward the threat. And yeah, versus moving away from it.
Yeah, yeah. I love how you mentioned to before you answer that question about like doing a lot of work

(25:43):
on yourself first. Because there are definitely things that I was scared of when I was younger
that I ran away from. But then when I was older, I was like, okay, it's time to look at this.
It's time to look at my fear of public speaking. 10 years ago, I would not be on this podcast
talking to you right now. There's no way. What about you? Yeah, absolutely. I had debilitating

(26:09):
fears of sharing my authentic truth, debilitating fears of like being authentic, because I didn't
learn that it was safe to do that. And so, you know, being on podcasts, and I have my own podcast,
it was extremely healing in a way of me reclaiming that once I healed a lot of those fears, fears of
being seen, you know, fears of sharing my truth. It's all just so important to have healthy

(26:33):
relationships, and have a healthy life ultimately. And, and like even when I was really young,
I it's so funny. I don't share this often. But like, I like, I think I was like around teenage
area, age, this is when I was like the most going through my stuff, like I definitely needed,

(26:57):
definitely needed like support, like, you know, from a therapist or coach or something. But I felt
like, oh, they just sit there, they don't actually do anything. Like, what are they doing? I'm gonna
pay someone to talk to them. About a therapist? Like, yes, yes, that was like my whole thought,
which I find hilarious, because that's the role I'm in now. Which I know, I laugh at myself,

(27:21):
I just think that's hilarious. But it's like, it was just me avoiding what, yeah, like those deeper
things. And also, like when I was a child, I had like, talk therapists that were not helpful at all.
So I think that also at the time, yeah, like impacted, oh, should I get help or not?

(27:42):
Also, when you're young, you think you know everything, but you don't know anything.
Absolutely. I think a growth mindset is and someone who's actually like very intelligent is
someone who feels like they know nothing in a way that they're so open to learn everything, they
feel, oh, there's always more to learn, because that's just so true.

(28:03):
Yes, it is true. Because there's what you know, there's what you know you don't know.
And then there's this whole world out there of things you don't know that you don't know.
Does that make sense? Absolutely. You really don't know what you don't know. And that's why
I think somatic work and diving deeper into your unconscious mind is key for that. Because

(28:28):
a lot of we don't logically know why we feel fearful about public speaking, for example.
But it's the public speaking is just the object of a trigger. It reminds your nervous system of
a time where you didn't feel safe to speak up, or you didn't feel safe to share your needs,
or you didn't feel safe to be seen. Yes. And it makes so much sense when we feel that,

(28:51):
because like you mentioned earlier about being four years old and wanting like that craving for
your mom to be there. And you said when you're four, you know, you don't know how to soothe
yourself. And you're dependent on your caregivers. Because you're dependent on your caregivers,
that's like, it feels like you're going to die when you don't get your needs met. So that's why

(29:13):
when you are public speaking, and that's that trigger for you, it literally feels like you're
going to die. Like that's what your body thinks is happening. And it I think it's all about
slowly growing your capacity to be with those feelings. And and to not to just like be with

(29:33):
the raw sensation of it. And obviously, like process them and all that stuff. And little by
little, you learn, Oh, I won't die if I share my opinion. And I won't die if someone if if someone
disagrees with my opinion. But it is terrifying when you start. Absolutely. And I'm so glad you

(29:56):
mentioned this part and this feeling of like, I'm going to die, like this feeling like I'm going to
die when I step toward that. Because for example, like, like even using my example with my previous
ex, like I felt like it didn't even feel like an option to leave, even though there were clear
signs that were like, you need to leave. Yeah, but literally, I was just running away from this

(30:19):
feeling of feeling like I was going to die. Like, yeah, I felt like I was going to die without my
partner. Because unconsciously, when you have these unhealed inner child wounds, you go into
relationships, and you project them as your survival, you your nervous system associates them
with your safety, your nervous system associates them as their parent. Yeah.

(30:46):
Crazy.
So I know there's a couple of modalities you wanted to speak to today. One of them, if I
remember correctly, is called brain spotting. Mm hmm. Yeah, what is that? I've never heard of it
before. Until we met on our like last connection call. I'm like, what is that? So like, what is

(31:08):
that? So I like to use this really, really simple explanation of brain spotting. So let me like, I
literally okay, brain spotting helps you to locate where your trauma memories are stuck in your body
so that you can release them. That way these triggers stop showing up in your present day.

(31:31):
So what this looks like is, let's say we're using this feeling that feeling I'm going to die,
this fear of abandonment, say your partner is even just going away for the weekend, and you're
scared to be alone, you feel like you're going to die. What I first have clients do is locate
what do you feel that fear of abandonment coming up? Usually people describe it as I feel this

(31:56):
pressure in my chest, not my stomach. I feel really hot. I feel tension in my head. Okay,
so we first identify and we identify what are those sensations, what emotions are present.
Usually it's like fear, worry, just feeling scared. And then I asked them to rate it. How

(32:17):
intense does this feel on a scale of zero to 10? 10 being the most intense, zero being it doesn't
impact you at all. Usually it's about, usually clients will say, you know, between six to nine,
sometimes 10 if it's really, really triggered and activated. So then what, if you notice that
you're talking to someone and they look up or down or to the side, that's a sign that their brain is

(32:41):
processing something. So brain spotting helps you to activate where those trauma memories are stuck
by looking out in your visual field. Meaning, so say the client says I have a big pressure in my
chest when I think about my partner leaving for the weekend, I have them look around the room and
find a spot that amplifies these feelings, because that's triggering your subcortical brain.

(33:03):
Meaning that's just triggering your deeper parts of your brain where the initial trauma
is stored. And then we process it and we release it through the body.
Cool. Interesting.
Yeah. Yeah. It's the most trans, I honestly the most transformative,

(33:24):
like modality. It's honestly my favorite. It's, it's honestly my favorite. It shows up different
images, memories, sensations, like it helps you to recognize patterns in your brain,
it helps you to recognize patterns that you didn't even realize were there or where they were
studying from. And you're able to be like, wow, I can see that it was from this and I can see how

(33:47):
this is connecting and it helps you to get so unstuck from it. And by the end of it, they're
like, oh, I feel great that my partner is leaving to, you know, go for the weekend on a business
trip. Like I finally feel a sense of relief in my body. That's typically what they say. They say,
I feel like I can finally take a deep breath. Yes. And that's why to illustrate that point

(34:10):
that you mentioned earlier, you can't think yourself into, you can't think yourself into
that because it's a feeling that feeling of relief in your body is a feeling that you can't trick
yourself into feeling by saying, I feel relief in my body. I feel relief in my body by like saying
the affirmation, you can't think it, you have to feel it. Absolutely. And that's why trying to logic

(34:37):
your way out of it won't work either. Cause you can't do that. It creates like a fake persona.
Correct. And ultimately what you're doing is you're abandoning your inner child.
Yes. Which is familiar. Yes. And then that's creating more anxiety. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Yeah. Oh my gosh. I could talk about this all day. What you mentioned in the beginning of that,

(35:04):
where the person brings up an event that's triggering them, like their partner leaving
and they feel into the body and locate where it is. That's very similar to something I do in my
coaching. I just don't do the like, I don't do brain spotting, so I don't do the other steps.
And yeah, it's very powerful to get people to notice sensations in their body. Especially for

(35:32):
me being a relationship and sexuality coach, like feeling sensation and being able to voice
what a sensation is, is so hard for a lot of women, especially women with anxious attachment,
women with a history of toxic relationships, and even women who relate to your story, which I relate
to as well, where we grew up with parents who were just not emotionally available because

(35:59):
it was a coping mechanism for us to detach from our sensations because then we don't have to voice
those sensations. Absolutely. I'm so glad you brought that up. Yes. Because when you're
anxiously attached or you're chronically anxious, you're not going to be able to do that.
When you're in a relationship or you're chronically anxious, you are detached from your body and you
disconnect from your body and you go into your mind. That's why there's so much rumination,

(36:23):
overthinking, anxiety and worry. But that's ultimately like a trauma response. It's a way
that your body learned to stay safe. And so when you learn to actually notice and label
what sensations am I noticing in my body, then when you're in a dating situation and they do

(36:44):
that is kind of a red flag, your body will tell you and will ultimately like scream at you.
Like it'll scream at you, this guy isn't for me, where you cannot betray your body anymore.
And so you're so connected to your body. It will tell you when something is not in alignment. And
I'd love to even use an example. Like I'm currently single now and I went on a date about

(37:07):
a month and a half ago with this guy. And I just, as soon as I saw him, I immediately felt this
ick. Like this, I just felt repulsed by this guy. Like this sounds mean, but like whatever.
Like I just felt repulsed. Like I felt immediately hot. I immediately felt contracted, constricted.

(37:29):
I did not feel good in this guy's presence. And I have like a strict boundary. Like this is for me.
Like I don't kiss on the first date. This is just what feels good for me. And we can talk more about
why. But yeah, like that's my boundary. And so like he kissed me on the cheek and then he was
like, oh, sorry. Like I realized, I remember you didn't do that. And I was just like, it was just

(37:52):
weird and uncomfortable. Really weird. And then-
Sounds like he's trying to push boundaries a bit and I don't like that.
Yeah. Yes. Yes. And then we were at this coffee shop. I always do like dates, especially if I
meet them like online or through a dating app, always in person, like always make sure that you're

(38:14):
safe. And I look up to like half a second and he's like, oh, like, are you checking out a guy? And
I was like, I was so repulsed. Red flag.
It's a burning flag. Yes. That's emotional abuse to say that.
It is. That was emotional abuse.

(38:35):
Yeah. And I was just instantly like, oh, and then like the date ended shortly after that.
And then he like held my hand, like walked me to my car. I almost like didn't want him to walk me
to my car, but it was like in a public, it wasn't like in a garage or anything. And I was just like
immediately repulsed. And as soon as I got in my car, I like messaged him, this isn't a fit. And

(39:00):
he literally messaged me like, oh, there's no way I could get a second chance. And I was like,
absolutely not. Like I was just like, I'm just interested. This isn't a good fit. And it's like,
that's all signs of low self esteem. Like my body was, and all of these red flags that he was
showing, my body was correct by the first like initial seeing this person.
That's so interesting how our bodies can feel. Like, I think we feel things before, yeah, okay,

(39:30):
this makes sense. We feel things before we know how to put words to it. Because that's,
that's how we were born. We weren't born talking. We were born just feeling things. And then the
like, words of whatever our mother tongue is came online. Yeah, so I that's so interesting that your

(39:50):
body was like, nope, immediately. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And even when I think
back like to the ex that I discussed here on the podcast, I remember like, because we were friends
for a little bit before we started dating officially. And he I remember he asked me to be his girlfriend.

(40:14):
And he said, this feels so right. And my body I remember, I immediately was like, I just felt
constricted. And I remember thinking immediately, I something like it doesn't feel right. Why does
it not feel right? And then I was trying to like, think my way out of it at that time, because I was
so afraid of abandonment, all these things. But it's like your body knows before you your your body

(40:38):
has an innate intelligence. It has never steered me wrong. Like, when I'm connected to my body,
it's never steered me wrong. And it's just very, very powerful when you can learn to utilize this
and listen to your body. And when you heal your fear of abandonment, you're not going to be afraid
to let someone go or tell someone, hey, I'm not interested in another date. Yeah. Yeah, because

(41:03):
you have more trust that whatever's meant for you will it what you will receive it.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Period. Oh, and one more thing I wanted to talk about with sensations
with what you talked about. When we have experienced pre verbal trauma, meaning you've experienced

(41:25):
trauma from zero to three years old, or even in the womb, like Cilia said, you don't have those
words yet. So a lot of the time when you feel like this body based emotion, you don't know why this
huge sensation or emotion, and you don't know why a lot of the time it can be because of pre verbal
trauma. And that's what brain spouting helps you do because we're not talking at all. It's just

(41:48):
exploring your sensations and emotions. Yeah, that makes so much sense. And they use brain
spouting on like babies with like birth trauma, which is pretty crazy to. Yeah. Yeah, we are so
lucky with everything that we know now because, you know, we both share that we had parents with

(42:09):
that were emotionally unavailable. They didn't have therapists on Instagram making these pretty
graphics telling you like, Hey, are you doing this? You might be emotionally abusing your kids like
we did not know. We didn't know as much then as we know now we have so much information in our
fingertips. So hearing that I'm like, yes, like we're progressing even more like babies are getting

(42:32):
brain spouting drop therapy. That's why it's absolutely wild. It's really transformative.
And yeah, like a lot of parents just didn't know. Yeah, better. I had it's not to excuse them because
they could do better. Everyone can do better. Yeah, like it's not to excuse them. However, I think

(42:55):
if you can have compassion for them, it shows you that you have done the work on your healing.
If you're still angry and resentful, there's still more work to be done. There's nothing wrong with
that. And you are justified in your feelings because you had unmet needs. However, they are
who they are and you can't change them. And you can't keep waiting for them to meet your needs.

(43:19):
You can't keep waiting for them to go to therapy. Scream it louder. Yes. And absolutely. Yeah,
yeah, like I wish I could magically snap my fingers and my mom would have like went to therapy and
like left and got a divorce. But like that just didn't happen. I just all of the healing I've done,

(43:41):
you know, obviously everything my parents have done like a lot of it was wrong. And they're so
wounded. Like they're very like, I can see their inner children still. Yes, like it's so hard.
It's so heartbreaking. And you can see everything that they want is available for them and they are

(44:05):
the ones stopping them. Absolutely. You can't tell them that because when you're in that state,
because we've been there, you like hearing that just feels gaslighty. Yes. And even like,
at the time this wasn't helpful. But even my therapist, one of my old therapists, she was like,

(44:27):
I just think your parents like you're so much smarter than your parents. And like, that's true.
But it's literally because I've been able to like do the work on myself. So I'm not stuck
in a developmental stage. Like, yeah, I feel like my, my, my father is like literally wounded and
stuck at like, you know, a five year old level. And then he puts this facade on and then my mom is

(44:52):
like, stuck in like a teenage body. Like she's in a teenage mind. I mean, but yeah, it's like,
it's so important to like heal your inner child so that you're not projecting your shit onto them.
And, you know, you will, you will, but it's like, okay, how can we minimize the damage like when

(45:13):
you I think also when you learn how to repair and sit in your own discomfort and your own feelings,
then you won't be projecting, like you won't be blaming or deflecting, you know, all these things
that that hinder children's development. Yeah. It's like those healthy repairs, that's what your,

(45:35):
your younger self needed. And so when you do inner child healing work, you're not just healing it
from your, you know, 29 year old brain, you're healing it like your brain doesn't know the
difference between a real and imagined event. So when you're going back and healing this four
year old version of you, you're literally healing that in real time. And so your, your body doesn't

(45:58):
have any concept of time. And so when I started doing inner child healing work, like with all
of these things, it's like, oh my God, that's so powerful and healing. And I just remember doing
it for the first time in hypnotherapy. And I just remember like sobbing, like meeting my inner child,
like seeing how neglected she was seeing how anxious she was, it was just absolutely wild.

(46:26):
And then I was the one who went over and rescued this younger version of myself and soothed her.
And that is so powerful because when you learn how to do that, you become the securely attached
parent that you needed back then. Yes. Yes. And that's the biggest gift you can give yourself.
It is. What are your favorite ways to play with your inner child now that you are that

(46:50):
securely attached parent for your inner child? What a fabulous question. So I would say two
things and no one to ask me that by the way. So I love that. I, every single week I will go to
Barnes and Noble. I'll do a mix of journaling where I just kind of brain dump any worries,
anything that's like on my mind, anything that I want to just process and just like

(47:13):
get to know a little bit more. And then I always ask like my inner child, you know, I always
ask like, what do you want to share with me? I literally like almost switch roles in this
journaling practice. And then I ask them what do you need to hear from me? And then I'll tell her
everything she needs to hear. Do you switch hands when you do that? I don't, I don't. But my writing,

(47:39):
like a lot of the time will become more clear as I've become more in tune with my like adult self.
There's like different studies on that where like, as you're processing things, like your
writing will become more messy. And it's like super, super wild. But yeah, so I do that. And
then I have like a mindfulness coloring book, and I literally will take markers and I'll color and

(48:03):
I'll do that. Yeah, I'll do that every single week. And it's like no rules, no staying inside
the lines. But like, I like, I just I like it to look a certain way, just because it makes me feel
happy with the different colors. And it's like, that's also her. And so it's like, and I listen to
a inner child playlist, it's just like really sweet, like gentle music. And yeah, and so it's

(48:25):
like, I do that every single week. And when I don't do that, I notice more abandonment fears will come
up. Because it's like, I'm meeting my inner child every week. And that's a non-negotiable for me.
I mean, yeah. It's like if you had a daughter, and you're like, we, this is our tradition that

(48:46):
we do every week, like we spend quality time together. Yeah, that's so sweet.
So wonderful. And even like, now, if when I'm doing brain spotting, or I'm doing inner child
healing now, I will see myself always like, it's like, well, where do you want to take this little
girl? Like in your mind, it's always back to Barnes and Noble. Like that is my safe place.

(49:10):
Yeah, and it's just like amazing, because you're repairing that connection. Yeah. With yourself.
Were you a big reader as a kid? Is that why Barnes and Noble is the place?
I actually wasn't. Like I, like as a child, I really struggled to focus in because I was so
dysregulated. And I like had ADHD or that big distractor part. And that's something that I

(49:35):
still continue to work on now is that ADHD part. But I think Barnes and Noble is just a safe place.
Like it just is so soothing to me. It smells good in there. Especially if it's one with a Starbucks.
Yes, yes, that's what I was gonna say next. Oh, usually, like I used to get matches from there.

(49:57):
Now they don't make me feel good. Like, yeah, I'm more connected. I'm even more connected to my body.
It's like the matches are really sugary from Starbucks, so they don't make me feel good.
So I'll usually get her like a warm tea. And like sometimes I'll get her like a gluten free,
like rice krispie treat from there. Oh, that's fun. It's just like a great time. Yeah. And it's like
that's, that's really doing it for me. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. What's something

(50:23):
that you do that heals your inner child? I like to read fiction that helps me connect with my inner
child. Because when I was opposite to you, I would escape into fiction. But nonfiction books,
I could not focus. A nonfiction book, I would like read a whole page like all the way up until

(50:47):
mid to late 20s. I could not read a nonfiction book because I would read a whole page and be like,
I have no idea what I just read. Let's start over. And like that would be happening until I'm like,
Okay, I'm going to put this book down. I can't read this. So I like to read nonfiction. I'm
currently reading Alice in Wonderland. And yes, but it's it's also Lewis Carroll's other works.

(51:12):
There's Sylvie and Brunel in there. And a couple of other stories. It's like a thick book I found
at Goodwill. And my inner child wanted it. So I bought it for her. I also like to whenever I can
buy things that are like sparkly. Yes. She loves sparkles. Like I saw the other day I saw a car was

(51:36):
a Tesla and I had this like white iridescent wrap paint job. And my inner child was like, I want
that. Like I want that on a car. And I told my husband he's like, that's like probably $5,000.
I'm like, I want that one day. That's that's that's goals right there. That is that's Tesla. But

(51:58):
it's the wrap that I liked. Because of all the like rainbows of the rainbow colors.
I really loved rainbow as a kid. And then I remember I got like I would I would always wear
rainbow stuff. And then once I got to high school, I would get made fun of and like, I was so naive
that I did not know that like the rainbow flag is like part of LGBTQ. There are all these rumors

(52:24):
that I was like a lesbian and people making fun of me and stuff. And then I remember I would just
stop wearing my rainbow stuff because I'm you know, in high school you want to fit in. But I
also like to draw to connect with my inner child and I draw I'm left handed but I'll draw with my
right hand. Because I read this in a there's this book called healing your inner child by Dr. I want

(52:50):
to say her name is Lucia Capacione or something. An Italian therapist that like specializes in
inner child stuff. And I like to just draw what's around me. It's funny, I have a lot of drawings
of my husband just like scrolling on his phone because like I'll drive when like we're just

(53:11):
relaxing in a living room. I have this if I had my iPad here, I'd show you but I have this photo on
my iPad that I drew and it's just like my husband on the phone like like this. It's really funny.
It's really funny because it's like my inner child's point of view of him. Yeah. That's funny.
Yeah. And I also love to sing with my inner child and I also have a playlist. Yeah, we should swap

(53:39):
our playlists. Yes, I would live for that. Thinking of okay, I'm also left handed, but I read and I
learned like that's really good that you draw with your right hand because when you're doing
something with your non-dominant hand like writing, it's like rewiring like neural pathways like in

(53:59):
your brain when you're doing that. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When I asked you earlier with the
journaling, if you switch hands in that same like from that same doctor in her book, she recommends
to do journaling with your inner child but when your inner child is writing to do with your
to do with your non-dominant hand and then it looks like a child's a child wrote it. It will.

(54:24):
Yeah. Yeah. That'll be really difficult. I'm gonna try that this weekend. Yeah. Wow. That's so cool.
Yeah, it's a good one. Okay, I'm gonna take a peep at our little list of the other modalities
that we wanted to cover. Let's see. I don't know. I can't find my form. I had it open and I think I

(54:51):
must have x'd it out. Oh, well some that I do, it's like the inner child healing, brain spotting,
somatic IFS. We talked about hypnotherapy. Like we could talk about that. Nervous system regulation.
We can also talk about the FON response and like people pleasing and some somatic exercises.
Let's dive into that. Yes. Yes, please. Okay. A lot of people are not familiar with FON response

(55:18):
because there's fight, flight, freeze and those have been like the most talked about and I don't
know if FON is something that we've only later on realized or do you know what the story is with that?
Yeah. I don't know like the origin of like, yeah, I don't know why. Like even one of my

(55:39):
own business coaches, he's also like a dating coach and I was on his podcast and I was talking
about the FON response and he's like, what's that? And I'm like, wow, like you're a coach and you
don't know what that is. Yeah, I had someone on as well who was a conscious dating coach and I
mentioned the FON response and she didn't know what it was and I'm like, wow, people know about this.
I think there's a lot of like preconceptions or like judgments. Like people think that people

(56:05):
pleasing is something that you choose or it's something manipulative when really your body
has learned to do that out of survival. So if you've had a parent who is narcissistic or maybe a
parent who's an addict or just a parent who is unpredictable, if you couldn't fight, fight,
if you couldn't freeze, if you couldn't run away, your body learned it was safest to FON.

(56:29):
That was one of mine as a child for years. Like when my brother, yeah, my brother who has autism,
I would just care take and take care of him and my dad as well. Like I would just take care of him.
And so it's like, hello, parentification. But yeah, it's like people pleasing. You don't know
any other way on how to survive. And then these unresolved patterns stay in your nervous system.

(56:54):
And then you go into relationship and your partner goes away and from work and asks you, oh,
is it okay if I leave? You're of course going to say yes, even when you want to say no,
because you're terrified of them leaving you. It's a way to protect yourself in the face of perceived
or real criticism, abandonment or rejection. It's something completely unconscious. Yes.

(57:18):
It's not manipulative. Yeah, yeah, it's not. Yeah, you're doing it for survival. And what's
what I find very interesting around you, no one can really tell something's wrong.
Because you're acting like everything's okay. Especially if you are also the type of person

(57:41):
who's like very ambitious and like go get her and stuff. On the outside, people are looking at you
like, oh, she's so happy. She has her shit together. And yes, she's look at her doing all these things.
And she's but really inside, there's like turmoil happening in there. Yes. Yes. And I think also the

(58:02):
people pleasing has a lot to do with how did your parents respond to you emotionally as a child?
Because for me, it's like, initially, it was like shame, or my mom would like, leave the room and
my dad would immediately need something because he was very attention seeking. And he would take away
like her almost like her nurturing in a way and, and it and I, it can be so unconscious. And even

(58:25):
after the all the years like, I've worked on my people pleasing response. Last year, I went on
vacation with one of my best friends, Emily Colligan, if you don't know who she is. She's,
she's like a narcissistic abuse specialist. And she's like, she's she's very like attuned,
like she could, she can pick up on that shit easily, easily. And we can talk about hyper

(58:47):
vigilance too. But and I just remember we were on a boat, and I just felt so effing anxious. Like,
I think she asked if we wanted to drive a go kart like around this island in Mexico that we were at.
And for whatever reason, I was just like so scared, like of doing that. I was like,
something just doesn't feel right about getting the car. Like, I just I don't want to, like,

(59:12):
something about it just didn't feel right. And I was just so anxious. And I remember I said yes.
And then she's like, Okay, like, we'll go ahead and do that. And then I was just anxious AF for
like a solid 45 minutes. And she was like, What's wrong? And like, I was like, like, nothing's wrong.
Like, I didn't want to say anything was wrong, because I didn't want to rock the boat. I didn't

(59:37):
want to disappoint her. Right? Because people pleasers have this really strong belief that I'm
responsible for other people's emotions. So their discomfort becomes mine. The cost of your own.
Yeah, yes. And that's the code of penance speaking. And then like, I remember we were talking,
and then after the fact, like after the trip, it was about a week later. And she was like,

(59:58):
Yeah, I felt really disconnected from you during the trip. Because like, I just felt like you were
saying one thing, but I felt something else. And it's like, when you are people pleasing,
it actually continues to disconnect you from from people that are closest to you, because they don't
actually know how to meet your needs. Isn't that ironic? Because you're doing it so that they could

(01:00:20):
be close to you. But you're pushing them away. Yeah. It is it is and and it's been really healing
for me to be friends with Emily because she she I remember her saying, you know, I can handle my
own emotions. Like, it's okay. Like, I want to hear it. I want to hear what you're feeling. It

(01:00:41):
makes me feel more disconnected, like disconnected and like uncomfortable because I feel the
disconnect. And then that left her feeling hypervigilance because her body felt one thing.
And then I'm telling her another thing. It's like, and it's uncomfortable when you start to
shed that people pleasing because you notice, oh, there's a like, I can get abandoned here.

(01:01:04):
But people who, like also, that's another thing that people don't talk about enough. It's like,
when you stop people pleasing you, if you're in a toxic relationship, that's what magnetizes you
towards emotionally unavailable people and toxic relationships, because they thrive off you not
having a state, they aren't willing to meet your needs. So when you can speak your needs, especially

(01:01:27):
in dating early on and with friends and practice with friends with other people, and with yourself,
like even going to the bathroom when you need to go to the bathroom or feeding yourself when you're
hungry. It's like all these things will help you and we can continue more on other ways to
semantically heal the phone response. But what are your thoughts on that?

(01:01:48):
Yeah, my gosh, I love this. Let me just there were a couple of things that I wanted to talk about.
But they've all floated out of my brain for some reason. It happens sometimes with with this people
pleasing. I love what you said about practice with friends. Because this is these are relational wounds.

(01:02:14):
And you can read all the self help bookseed that you want, you can do all the work on your own.
You can even you know, working with the therapist is also you know, that's a relationship where
you're working on it. But out in the real world with people who are not mental health professionals
or coaches, like those that's the battleground to like really put the work into practice. And

(01:02:38):
that's where you will heal it because you're going to learn over time that it is
that it is safe to say what's true for you. And I think the tricky part like what you just what you
said about when you people please, that's what's attracting toxic people into your life. The tricky
part is when you learn to not people please anymore. And you speak up for yourself because

(01:03:03):
you have toxic people around you. They are going to do what you fear most and they're going to get
mad or they're going to not want to be your friend anymore. And it's it's really important to have
support when you're going through that. Because they are making room for the people who are

(01:03:24):
available like Megan you said her name was? Megan? Emily. Emily. Why do I think it's funny that you
said Megan because that was one of my first coaches who was like my first hypnotherapist.
That changed my life. So like that's actually why you said that. Do you think my body knew that?
Maybe. That's so cool. That's crazy. Yeah, but yeah, absolutely. It's like,

(01:03:51):
it's so true. And even in my last relationship that was healthier and like a lot more secure,
I was not people pleasing. I and he didn't want people please. Like healthy people do not want
you to be pleased. They want to know your truth. I remember having my first like healthy relationship
and when I was dating him he was like, why do you say sorry all the time? He's like,

(01:04:14):
you apologize for everything. Don't do that. Stop doing that. Who'd you date? Like your
exes are assholes. Like why are you saying sorry for every little thing? And I was like,
you're right. You're right. It's like thanks. Thanks for that reflection.
Yes. That was literally the exact conversation I had with my previous partner who was more

(01:04:38):
like healthier. And that's so funny that you say that because yes, a lot of people pleasers,
they'll say sorry for everything because we're not used to taking up space. And even like my
previous partner, even like towards the end, just our needs were very different and we just weren't
a good fit anymore. And towards the end I was still communicating like my needs and you know,

(01:05:00):
even what was really healing for me, even like the breakup, he was like, your needs were never too
much. Never too much. And it was so healing for me. And it's like, yeah, it's like you need those
disconfirming experiences. You need to have someone, I really feel like that co-regulation

(01:05:20):
and that attunement, meaning, you know, you have someone reflecting back, listening, validating,
helping you heal these wounds. But you also need those disconfirming experiences in the real world
and you need to build healthier relationships and go into that. A lot of people are afraid to do
that, which is valid to feel afraid to do that. But like one of my clients is like, yeah, this

(01:05:45):
psychic told me that, you know, the psychic told me that I shouldn't get into another relationship
for another few years because I have a lot more healing to do. While that can be true, also healing
relationship wounds happens in relationship. We've become traumatized from mostly other people.

(01:06:06):
So when you get that healing in relationship, you're healing that original wound and you learn
that I can speak up for myself. You know, men or women now respect my boundaries. Everything starts
to shift and you begin to feel safer, even though initially it might feel uncomfortable and a little
anxiety provoking. Do you think my husband and I always ponder this? Do you think that going

(01:06:31):
through trauma might make you smarter? You did mention earlier about that therapist reflecting
to you like you're a lot smarter than your parents. And yeah, go ahead. That's a fabulous
question. So I have like two different thoughts here. I was even talking about this with one of

(01:06:52):
my friends last weekend, not this specifically, but I feel that people who have been traumatized,
they like, especially people who have been parentified, meaning you were given responsibilities
that you were too young for. Like for me, that was taking care of my brother, like, and taking care
of my father. That should not have been my role. Or you're the one taking care of your parent.

(01:07:15):
That's like role reversal. And then you emotionally mature much quicker than your peers. And then you
don't fit in and feel different because like your brain is literally completely different than someone
your age. And so I feel like in that way, you can be a lot more emotionally mature if you're working

(01:07:36):
through your stuff. Yeah, if you're working through it. I feel like a lot of people who've experienced
narcissistic abuse or trauma, what happens in the brain when you've experienced narcissistic abuse is
your hippocampus actually begins to shrink, which is your logic, your, you know, your thinking, your
like your logical center of your brain where you house memory, and then your amygdala, which is

(01:08:01):
where fear and anxiety come from in the brain, that becomes larger. So actually, this is where a lot of
like ADHD comes in, because you can't focus as much because this is smaller, and then the amygdala is
so much larger. So you can actually like feel a lot more dumb when you also have experienced trauma.
So there's like two sides to the coin there. Yeah, I feel like I feel like either one can be true.

(01:08:27):
Yeah, I, I would say I would have ADHD or that protector part. Yeah. And so some but I feel like
a lot of people and I would say I am very intelligent. And I feel I'm much different than
typical people, typical 20, you know, mid 20s people are so maybe there's some truth to that.

(01:08:48):
I wish I could say like, a final, like yes or no, but I think it's more gray in this. Yeah,
there's definitely so many factors. You know, yes. There's so many factors that affect us,
whether or not we experience trauma. So yes, yes. And like genetics wise, yeah, you know, like

(01:09:10):
our environment, our environment, what race we are, and like what country we live in and how you get
treated based on your race, like there's so many aspects, so many food you have access to, because
that affects your brain. There's so many, there's so many layers. So many, so many even like I learned

(01:09:32):
in my early 20s when I had so much chronic pain, I was gluten sensitive. I like my best friend also
has celiac disease. And she's like, even the other day we were talking about it. And she's like, I
swear, like you have celiac, you have like the same symptoms of as me when I eat gluten. And she has
celiac disease. But like the difference with me is like, I got blood tested, and it didn't come back

(01:09:58):
positive for celiac, you know, with gluten. But it's like, yeah, I was eating gluten for two decades.
And it's like, brah, like, no wonder why I was so even more dysregulated on top of that. It was like
a chemical stressor to my body. And that was to my body. Other people, and especially other countries,
like they don't spray glyphosate on their gluten, and it can be different. And everyone reacts

(01:10:20):
different to different foods. For me, it does not bode well with gluten. But it's like so many things
impact your brain, your attachment style. Like, if I'm, if I eat gluten, it is very hard for me to be
to regulate myself. I'll feel very dysregulated.
Moral of the podcast, stop eating bread and you'll heal your trauma.

(01:10:44):
Yeah, she's being sarcastic, guys.
All right, this has gone by really fast. I want to move into the closing questions. And I definitely
feel like I need to have you back because I feel like there's so many other things we did not talk
about. But to move into our closing questions, what does self love mean to you?

(01:11:08):
What first came to my mind is self acceptance. Because when you can learn
to accept yourself as you are, naturally self love arises from that. When you can learn to accept
yourself, you have so much power. Like I have accepted that for me, I do have that distractor
ADHD part. And it can be more difficult sometimes to get things done. But it's like that is just a

(01:11:32):
and that's something that I continuously improve and I'm trying to work on and I have to have
certain things in place. But it's like, I just accept that this is, this is a very, very
me like this is my part and I love deeply I have such a big open heart. And it's like that's
something that I love and accept about myself when I get when I accepted that. That's when I can

(01:11:55):
that's why I love myself. When you can accept yourself, you can love yourself. That's the first
step. I can feel that open heart and this is only my second time being on a call with you.
So thank you. I so appreciate that. Okay, the next question is what makes you feel the most grounded?

(01:12:20):
What makes me feel the most grounded? I feel like multiple things make me feel very, very grounded.
I'll say two things. brain spotting, brain spotting. So I know we talked about like,
I'll just say a really quick thing about brain spotting. And just like to give a tip, if you're
someone who struggles with anxious attachment, or you're very anxious with brain spotting,

(01:12:43):
I talked to Cilia about, okay, you identify what amplifies those feelings of anxiety,
you can do the same thing with a safe part of your body. I call it safe spotting. So you can also
look around the room and find a place that feels soothing. This could even be looking at your cat,
a lot of my clients have animals or like I look at my cat or my dog, I feel safe, feel calm,

(01:13:04):
looking at like a painting, you know, that your friend made for you, that makes me feel calm,
you can look around the room and find a spot that feels calm and safe that like really helps me feel
grounded. And recently meditation, like walking meditations, I've been like, I did one today that
like lit a fire up my ass like in a good way. Like it was fabulous. There was one by Dr. Joe

(01:13:27):
Dispenza. I don't know if you you're into him or his work, but the meditation is called prayer.
It's walking meditation six. It's so good if you're someone who, like you struggle with motivation,
or you're in the freeze response, like you go more for its depression, like walking meditations are
great. And I just think they're fun. Like, they just take things to such another level. And they

(01:13:52):
just like really helped me that they really helped me feel grounded. Yeah. Yeah. When you mention ADHD,
it makes sense that walking meditation would be helpful for you. And as someone who's a trained
meditation instructor, meditation is not always sitting still and sitting down. Correct. Even
dancing can be a meditation, even drawing can be a meditation. There's so many things that could be

(01:14:16):
a meditation that I don't think people know about. So then they think meditation is not for them.
When really, everyone needs it, especially now with how fast the world moves. Yeah, we need,
we need those moments to stop and pause. Absolutely. Okay, I have one more question,

(01:14:39):
and then we'll get into where people can connect with you and your work and all that stuff.
Yeah. Fabulous. I'd like to do a dramatic pause before this question because it's my favorite.
Dramatic pause. What is your favorite part about being a woman?

(01:15:00):
What a great question. I love that question. Wow. Okay. I love that question. I have to like
tune in and think about that for a second. Yes, take your time. What is my favorite part about
being a woman? Honestly, like, I guess like multiple parts. Like I just love being a woman. Like I love

(01:15:23):
supporting women. I just think we have such an, this is my, this is my answer. The intuitiveness
that comes to being a woman. My favorite part about being a woman is truly how connected I am
to my intuition. I used to not be, and that really has a lot to do with trauma work. But
even men can be very connected with their intuition. But women, like it's been like research

(01:15:46):
that like women are just much more connected to their emotions and their body just because of the
nature of our hormonal cycle, our menstrual cycle, the fact that we have children, like
we're made to be intuitive and connected to our bodies. And so I just love being so connected to
my body and my intuition and honestly supporting women. Like I love women. Majority of women

(01:16:10):
and the majority of clients who come into my practice are women. I do love to help men as well.
But yeah, I absolutely love it. That's beautiful. Thank you. And for everyone who is listening,
I will pass the mic to you to share where people can find you, what you have going on, how people

(01:16:32):
can work with you, all the things. Yes. So the best place for someone to find me is my Instagram.
It's heal with Bell, H E A L with V A L. And then also I have lots of freebies on my Instagram on
like I have, I made an amazing like EFT tapping meditation to heal your fear of abandonment. So

(01:16:55):
if you struggle with people pleasing, struggle with anxious attachment, fear of abandonment,
that's going to be so healing for you. I also have a like people pleasing masterclass where I
like semantically teach you how to stop self abandoning and people pleasing using somatic
exercises and nervous system regulation. It's only $20. It's a two hour long workshop packed

(01:17:19):
with such powerful tools and practices for you to use. And then I have my eight week one-on-one
freedom from anxious attachment blueprint, which teaches you literally step by step how to actually
heal your nervous system, how to go from anxious to securely attached and stop the race of

(01:17:40):
constantly, you know, ending up with emotionally unavailable or avoided partners.
Yay. Yes. Okay. So links to all of that I'll include in the show notes or in the caption,
if you're watching this on YouTube and I'll ask you before we stop the recording, if there's any
closing thought you want to leave off with.

(01:18:03):
Yes. Your attachment style is not fixed. That is not your identity. You are not just an anxious
person. You are not just an anxiously attached person. You are a human being with a beautiful
soul with so much love to give and it is not fixed. This is something that can literally be
healed and you can become more securely attached. You can become more secure. You can feel safe in

(01:18:28):
your body. You aren't meant to just feel anxious, pay bills and die.
Oh my gosh, I love that.
I'm like, wow, that's really, I was like, wow, that was pretty book, Valerie.
I'm going to share before we close. I just want to reflect something that you shared earlier

(01:18:51):
that you said your ex said to you, but I want to say it to the listeners. And what I want to say
is your needs are never too much. Your needs are never too much. Thank you all for listening
and we will see you next week. Bye.