The impact of fear on FULFILLMENT with Lucie Al

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Openly Spoken, the podcast to help you show up, speak out, and be seen in healthy

(00:18):
relationships.
On this show, we talk about self-love, sexuality, relationship tips, including ending the cycle
of toxic relationships, and healing and thriving after heartbreak.
Hi, I'm your host Cilia and I'm a certified sex, love, and relationship coach helping
ambitious women with a history of toxic relationships feel deeply connected in healthy love.

(00:43):
These are such important topics that every woman deserves, so if you could leave this
show a rating and a review on Apple podcasts or Spotify to help more women find this, it
would mean the absolute world to me.
Thank you so much for being here today.
Now let's dive into the show.

(01:14):
Lucie Al is a wealth expansion mentor and business coach who guides visionary female entrepreneurs
to step boldly into their power, expand their empires, and lead with purpose, ease, and
luxury.
With over a decade of experience as a successful entrepreneur, she blends strategic business
mastery with deep somatic healing and energetic alignment, helping her clients create holistic

(01:38):
success across all aspects of life.
Lucie specializes in guiding women who already know their power but are ready to elevate
into their next level of wealth and leadership.
Through her integrative approach, Lucie helps her clients unlock clarity, elevate their
offers, and align with the wealth frequency needed to build legacy.

(01:59):
Her work is rooted in helping women embody their highest version of leadership without
sacrificing personal fulfillment and creating lasting impact and true abundance.
I firstly just want to say how much I appreciate our connection and I'm so excited that we'll
get to meet in person so soon.

(02:19):
In less than a month, we will have met in person for the first time.
It's going to be so cool for sure.
Yes.
Yay.
And I also have no idea what we're going to talk about today, but every time we chat,
we have such deep conversations.
Agreed.

(02:39):
I'm not worried.
Yeah, so I guess I'll just get it going.
Same.
Unless you do the introduction and then we'll see what comes up.
Yeah, well, I was going to ask you just out of curiosity, what's alive for you right now
in this moment?
What's something that's been maybe coming up as a theme for you in your life?

(03:04):
That's a great question.
I feel like the last five, six weeks a lot came forward because I've been part of Mastermind.
So there's a lot of things that you go at really rapid pace when you're part of a group
like this because you are choosing every day to move forward, holding myself in the trust
of where I'm going, like where I'm leading myself, where I'm actually moving forward.

(03:29):
That's where I feel like that would be the most razor focused part of what I've been
doing the last few weeks, at least the last few weeks.
But yeah, because I'm back on the scene.
Yes, we're celebrating this for you.
Thank you.
Yeah, after a very long time of like, nope, that's not happening.

(03:50):
Now coming back to it and yeah, it's just that.
With the trust also, the wobble that comes with it when you make a decision of where
you want to go and then you're just like, my God, is that not too big?
Am I not full?
You know, all the look at things that comes to your mind and also what came forward.

(04:16):
One of the first things that came forward when you asked that question was actually
today.
Like, no intention right now to place this entire planner, but like it's literally about
that.
I sold a planner and I haven't sold them for so long because I haven't talked about it
for so long.
I know, look at her.
Look at her, she's beautiful.
She's beautiful.

(04:39):
I just, someone from Australia purchased it and I was like, shoot, it's been so long since
I sold anyone.
So I just feel like, do I know how to pack again?
Like you know, and I was reading, like I prepared everything.
Before I had my stickers, like everything for the packaging and I was like, but I don't

(05:00):
have this domain name anymore because like I didn't feel right to keep it.
And I'm like, have you put everything under my own name?
Like it's LUCL.
And I was like, I know, I'm like, you know, it's not good enough.
And I had the whole morning, like nearly five hours of like that rumbling, like crazy rumbling.

(05:22):
And I actually, I re-printed, not the stickers because like stickers were made professionally,
but I reprinted the thank you notes that you got on mail.
Like, you know, that one, I re-printed a new one because I was like, yes, the planner says
you need to go to the Vietnam press, but there is no website anymore for the meditation.

(05:42):
So I need to find a way for the meditation.
Actually my Justin, like that reminds me, I might send an email to everyone with all
the resources to it.
But and I was like, oh my God, and this, and I need to fix this and I need to fix this
and I need to fix this and it felt never ending.
Yeah.
So yeah.
And it's days.

(06:03):
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
When the clarity comes through after being in that space of like a winter where you're,
you know, taking a step back, when you come back and have the clarity, it does feel a
little overwhelming where there's like, oh, there's all these things I need to fix.
I feel you on that.

(06:24):
I know.
There is one thing that I feel like I'm being kind of a big wake up moment as well.
It's like we have eight goals and I feel like yourself, you, like we've been talking a
little bit of what you want to create when we have those big vision that has going to
have such a powerful impact.

(06:46):
There is part of the winter, like personally I call it air me air because it's basically
in my human design being six to six being rolled all into being air mate.
It's my air mate era.
It's like I completely disappear.
I go down.
I feel like people think that no one's moved and not nothing's moved forward.
Like basically I'm actually moving forward for myself through very, very fast pace before

(07:11):
I'm ready to be in front of the world again.
But the thing is for us to be in the front of the world, we need to prepare.
I would love to have a thousand people in my course.
Do you have a structure that can allow yourself to hold space for a thousand people, not just
like a thousand people live.
You have to find the tools that are going to like all of those technicalities that I

(07:35):
feel like sometimes like I know man infestations.
We said I think the one of the last podcasts we had together.
We didn't say that.
If we actually lead, like I call it trust, like it's like if we need to trust, we also
need to find action.
We need to activate things because it's not just you get the information, but then you
need to really take it to hands and really make something of it, like create something

(07:59):
out of for it.
So I feel like it's where we kind of tend to disconnect with the manifestation.
Manifestation, so I'm still twisting my head now, but manifestation, for me it's just trust.
But it's just like really leaning into trust.
That is meant for me.

(08:19):
But also if it's really into trust, I also have to lead myself into trust and also making
of like I receive a message and I need to activate it or it's just going to be like,
wait, I just made a vision.
Like did you put things in place to really have that happening?

(08:40):
Like the active and passive modes that's really happening in business anyway.
Emma, we have those big goals and vision.
I love that you bring up trust because I feel like what comes up, what I've seen in myself
and my clients is that there's this, like you realize how much light and power you have

(09:05):
and how big you really are as a leader and how big your vision is and it's scary.
And so the trust is also in like knowing that A, this desire is meant for you.
B, you're going to be safe when you expand into that next level version of yourself.

(09:26):
And yeah, that's been a big theme for me.
And I know the last time we had a chat, we were talking about that.
And again, it's very fun because we talk about those things and like you feel like you either
you just passed it or you are through it or it's my turn, like you passed it and I'm through
it and it's a spiral.

(09:47):
It honestly, you know, you revisit these things again and again.
Yeah, exactly.
But like the big vision is a big part of a lot of things.
Like I feel like it's what I think it's something that I think I know I shared on my Instagram.
I think it was a few days ago, like maybe two weeks ago.
And it was typically like, I know you have a vision.

(10:09):
Like everyone has a big vision, like that big like bold vision that if they actually
sit down and someone with people, it's like, what's your big vision?
Maybe like mute because things just like so, so big.
They was like, I cannot like it's like the spell.
I think there's something we shared together is when about spell, like spelling is to spell
like talking is actually casting a spell.

(10:31):
And if you're actually leading into that of like actually big vision is so big, but if
actually coming out of my mouth, it actually has to come to fruition.
Yeah, you know.
Yeah.
And there is two ways there is that detachment of like, it will happen the way it's supposed
to be not the way you actually envision it because sometimes they are like you will see

(10:53):
them linking back, but sometimes they don't feel that they are like, you don't feel like
you're going anywhere.
But there's like so many times you go like you sit down and you're like, my God, like
the most thing that is like, oh my God, this is actually something that I was like, I really
want it to happen.
And you know, it's something we talked about.
I think last time we talked about the Matthew say it was saying, oh yeah, when you sat down

(11:17):
and look at your 20th and realize how much of your vision were like, how much of that
vision came through fruition.
Maybe not exactly the way you were imagining it, but it came forward and it's just, it's
massive.
Like when you were actually like, because we keep forward and we don't realize how much

(11:38):
things that we have to be done.
And like those milestones are carrying us to where we are.
And they're going to support us for the next step as well, or any, any season that we are
summer or winter.
It could be spring too.
That's sexy.
Yes.
Yeah.
I think a part of it too is besides being scared of our vision, like when you said,

(12:00):
when someone asks you, what is your big, what's your big goal or, or I don't remember the
exact words, but like, what is the thing you're doing and people go mute because the vision
is so big.
I think also a reason why people go mute can sometimes be, we're not sure what we really
want.
And I was recently like meditating on a concept where I was like, my gosh, this is why most

(12:23):
people never get what they want in life.
And I would, I would love to know your thoughts because like, I feel like when we share juicy
thoughts like this, you and I always have such good back and forth conversation.
We do.
Yeah.
So what came through for me is that I think the reason why most people don't have a fulfilled

(12:44):
life or, or like the reason why most, if you're living a life where you're not fulfilled,
this is the reason why I think it is.
And I think it's because our fear of death.
Like you mentioned the hermit season, that winter season, like that's like a death phase
and we're like trained to be scared that, Oh, this means nothing's happening.

(13:06):
I'm not going towards my goals.
And also when you can accept the fact that you will die and you think about one day I'll
be gone.
Right.
If you really think about that, I think that's where your true desires can really come out
of like, what do you want?
Like when, when they're reading your, your, your eulogy or your obituary, like what do

(13:31):
you want them to say about what it is that you, the body of work you left behind the
maybe like books you wrote or whatever it is, what kind of a wife, mother, who you were
as a human, like what is that?
But I think because we're a trained to be afraid of death and B it's just wired into

(13:53):
our survival.
Like we're always looking out for the saber tooth tiger.
People are because of that fear of death, like we don't actually hear from our own soul
what we want.
And a lot of us are out there, you know, because you mentioned about business, a lot of us
are out there following strategies from business coach that told you a strategy that maybe

(14:16):
isn't in alignment with you, but you're like, okay, I'm going to do this.
I'm going to like do all the things because they said it was.
And that's where we come into like not being fully embodied.
But yeah, that was a lot.
I'd love to know your thoughts.
I love like, I do like that analogy of like the origin of death because it definitely
is when you really start the awakening faith of your life, you actually, I don't know,

(14:43):
this is something I'd love to know from you because you know, like I'd love to like, this
is a part of you.
No, but I remember when my real conscious awakening came forward, I realized how many
little awakening try to burst like the little sparks that came before that realizing like
it was just like, it's the didn't you did not wake up one day and like, that's the awakening.

(15:06):
It's like, it's been lingering, but it's got louder, louder, louder, louder, louder until
one day it just snaps and you're like, that's it.
I cannot do this anymore.
And that's, I feel like it's the shift personally in the, in the death we were talking because
I guess we were like in the work that we do, we work a lot with the body where we work
a lot with also the energetics and the somatic, like the somatic is I feel like it's better

(15:30):
analogy to it.
Because when we are stuck in the idea of like fear of death, we don't do anything, but you
also have it's you were saying it's encoded in the body, but like when we start the awakening
journey, we go through so many death of the past self of the past beliefs that we saw

(15:55):
the past.
I like to call it domestication, but like the past domestication that don't relate to
us now, there is part of the domestication is I feel like to live in a society isn't
necessary, but it was part of the domestication that went too far.
And it's for us to reclaim and saying that is not for us.
So I feel like it's kind of one of the step of like, we not like when we start really

(16:18):
into the full awakening part, or at least the more conscious one, like the first step,
which is awareness, you get to grasp the idea that you will go through so many death during
your life, like in like, in the aesthetic side, like a psychic side, like body side,
everything will will shift.
And I feel like something that really like, failed for me is just like, shifted a lot

(16:43):
in terms of fear of death.
And what came to my mind when you were sharing this as well is I agree with you in the idea
of like, some people don't achieve it because of fear, like that connection with death.
And I feel like there is one side, I know I come back to the body, but I get such, it's
a wisdom keeper.

(17:03):
Like you were saying, like we were just looking out for the tiger, like, you know, the way
we were living in caves and everything, but it's very true in so many aspects in our DNA
still coded.
So the DNA is linked to the body.
So when we go back to realizing that we can actually choose again, again, it's not like

(17:24):
the today I choose now, I least see from today, I had to choose, but like we see from few
years ago, we never have even the thought that she could choose again, because she was
ridden with trauma, she was ridden with like very deep fight and flight lot within herself
that got unlocked because of the work of the somatic and the energetics and the mind, like

(17:46):
the remoring of the mind, the neural pathways.
And I feel like it's where we really see the shift with making it happened, but also having
the vision, being afraid, doing it and still being stopped because you are overlapping
like trauma that like the life circumstances that come back to your face.

(18:12):
It's like, you remember when you did this last time, might not be wise to do that today
because like, you know, you could be like full of it, you could die, you know, like
all of those kinds of things that come as a big ball of knots.
I guess one of the biggest one is actually just, we people that are already doing it,

(18:34):
they have one thing in common, they're talking.
They have no problem to just share what they really want, like maybe not in a public face,
but they would do it privately, they would have people that will support their big crazy
delusional visions and I love that you said delusional, I love delusional, I love that,

(18:55):
like Gen Z, thank you for that word.
But yeah, it's a lot of things together, I feel like it's a mission, but yeah.
Yeah, I feel like you're so right with that piece of like, we're scared to do the thing
and we're doing it anyways and as we do that, we could be overlapping trauma and I think

(19:16):
that still goes back to the fear of death because looking at our trauma feels so scary.
Like it feels like we're gonna die if we look at our childhood trauma or if we admit that
our needs were met or if we just revisit old memories, it feels like a, and yeah.
Now you're on the edge of the cliff and now you jump, what do you mean?

(19:41):
Don't worry, you're good, you're good, you're not sure about this, but yeah, exactly, you're
right.
And so with what you shared about when you have a spiritual awakening, you come to realize
that you'll experience lots of deaths.
Maybe our first big spiritual awakening then is our first glimpse of breaking away from

(20:05):
that survival instinct of being like, I'm going to die because we're more aware, we're
more present, we're not operating on that autopilot.
And I love how you said that leading up to a spiritual awakening, there are like little
awakenings that try to happen and I'm like, huh, what was that for me?

(20:27):
You'll see.
When you think about it, you'll see the dots like lining completely.
It's crazy when you really realize and usually it comes from, it's like for me, when it comes
forward was more, we were talking about the fear of death, but like the domestication
part of things that we really suppressed.
I loved that when you said that.

(20:47):
There's a lot of parts of that.
Yeah.
When you were talking about how domestication went too far, I got like goosebumps earlier
when you were talking about that.
I get goosebumps too.
This is part of that is domestication.
Is there any part of you when I'm like, I'm going to agree something funny, like not funny,
but like it just comes to my mind.
So I feel like it's important to share.

(21:08):
Like I remember when I was maybe early teens, like 13-ish and going to my grandma and like
it was the beginning of internet.
So we get online and we could get things on those shady websites.
They were not looking good.
I remember being so attracted with witchcraft.

(21:32):
It was just something that was like the white magic.
I remember like doing it in a hush hush, I can't do this.
And like I was just trying to make potions and everything.
Oh my gosh, how cute.
Like counting the water drops and everything.
And it's just realizing that that is one of the first piece of awakening.

(21:53):
It's like, am I doing witchcraft?
Am I doing white magic?
It's not the path, but it was just one of the sparks that really led to something bigger,
something bigger that in your environment hasn't been taught to you because they're
not aware of.
I was brought atheist, completely like rejecting the notion of God.

(22:17):
You were raised atheist.
So I didn't know that.
I guess that was crazy, but even though like my dad, mom were like completely like the
woman that would go to church every Sunday, but my dad completely rejected, completely
rejected God and the idea of like, there is something bigger than us for a long, long
time.

(22:37):
I think it's shifted a little bit now, but it's just like for me at one, I think I remember
it was like maybe when I was 15, I learned, I heard about Jacques Cousteau, which is a
philosopher, like a French philosopher, and he shared the word agnionist, agnionist.
So basically not believing in a true religion, like a constructed religion, but like thinking

(22:59):
that there is something bigger than us in this universe, which is to be God.
I know agnionist in French.
And when I read that word, I was like, that's me, you know, and it's all of those key things
that you realize that there's the beginning of awakening, even healing with the word God.
I couldn't say even like every time I was the word God, I was like, no, you know, it

(23:24):
was like, that couldn't do this.
And now like that would be when I connect with spirit, that would be, I connect with
God and my spirit angels, like everyone, but they are just, they couldn't do it.
They're like making it antenna so I can listen to God better.
But the God, it's not like from any type of set religion for me.

(23:44):
It's very, very intimate thing.
It's just us having conversation.
Yeah.
And I think that's how it should be with God and spirituality.
Like you should take the time to define that for yourself.
I feel like so many people just follow what their parents or family follows.
And you know, for good reason, we want to belong to our family.

(24:06):
We don't want to cause issues.
So yeah, I remember as a kid, like always talking to something above.
And for me, I was raised like, we would celebrate Christmas.
Christmas was a big deal in Germany and my mom would go all out for Christmas, but we
never learned about Jesus.
And my dad that raised me, he's actually my stepdad, but I call him dad.

(24:31):
He comes from a Muslim religion and he completely would always tell me like, religion is bad.
All it does is control you.
Like he basically escaped from Pakistan to live in America because over there, like Islam
is the law over there.
And I remember I had a friend when I was around seven years old.

(24:52):
She got me a cross necklace for my birthday, no for Christmas or my birthday.
And I remember getting in trouble for having that.
Like my stepdad was like, we don't have that in this house.
Like it was like this evil thing.
And you know, for good reason, his lineage experienced a lot of violence from Christianity,

(25:15):
but I didn't know that as a kid.
But what I did know was that, you know, I had one parent who was telling me religion
was bad, but then me personally as a kid, like I spent a lot of time alone.
I spent a lot of time out in nature and I felt some sort of connection with something.

(25:37):
And I never really realized that that like was the part of the thread leading to the
awakening.
So thank you for that.
Welcome, we always learn something.
Yeah, if there is little crumbs all around your life that you kind of dismiss.
And I feel like there is something that came forward as well for me is like intuition.

(26:00):
I remember very distinctly like my godmother that passed away last year.
And I remember when I was very little, like seven or eight, I remember meeting her and
something that stuck to my mind.
I could not know why she's like, he was so struck, like, felt like it was like highlighted
like this.

(26:20):
And she said, always trust the first answer you hear.
She said that to me, when you go to a test, you have a test and you have like, you read
the question, what comes to mind first is the real answer.
And I remember very distinctly the next test I did, I heard something.
And then like the shadow came forward and like, hello, no, that's the answer.

(26:42):
And I answered shadow instead of little voice.
And I was wrong.
And the real truth was the little voice.
And I was like, and it grew and grew and grew and grew from that sentence of like, always
listen to the first the first thing you hear.
Because the first thing here is the fastest one is the pure on unfiltered heart.

(27:05):
Yes.
Of your own knowledge or of your own intuition, everything, like everything within yourself,
that we kind of dismissed in so many ways, like you were talking about fear of death,
because there was a lot of things that that little worry was tell you and they'd be like,
the shadow was like, hi, you won't do this.
And it's, it's there.
It's been there all along.

(27:25):
You have vision, you have, you have heard things you have maybe sense things and you
dreamed crazily.
And is all that just a dream?
It's like, is that really a dream?
Or is that actually what you're being like, someone is coming in just whispering in your
ears and say, which is scary.
I'm not denying this.

(27:46):
It's very scary for everyone anyway.
So yeah, we have to do it anyway.
To me, it sounds comforting, like this, like, wise grandmother kind of spirit, like whispering
in our ears while we're sleeping as kids.
I'm like, that's nice.
Although if I was a kid and I woke up and I saw like that, because I remember feeling

(28:10):
like I could sense this like entity when I was a kid, specifically when I was around
seven, we lived in rent in Washington.
And I remember anytime I turned the lights off, I'd be like afraid of that.
Like there was this man right behind me and I would like go, I would go so far as to go

(28:31):
into the bathroom, turn the light on and like, I think so, like, like what's over there?
And to this day, like now, now that I'm older and I know about, you know, some people can
like that, you can open that sense within you.
I'm not available for it.
I'm like, no, setting boundaries.
I don't want to see any entities, not for me.

(28:51):
Yeah, I'm like, no, thanks.
Like I'm not that kind of witch.
Same, same.
It's funny.
We have the same, some very similar experience again, but yeah, it's like, it feels like
we've been like crossing timelines because I remember like around that scene, like around
like maybe 10, 11.
So like, I think we're in the same terms of that as what we have.

(29:13):
But I remember if I were on my own or, you know, people like, don't know what to say,
but like basically I was switching off the light that I'd be running, you know, we like
switching off the light, just running like, okay, I'm switching this, this room.
And then there was no lights like, shit, I forgot to put the lights in the corridor or
something like that.

(29:34):
And then it was pitch dark and you just run to the light because it was like, there's
something behind me.
There is something behind me.
But I felt like I definitely went really deeply resonated with what you said.
And also there is something that I will not have the full integrate, like the full knowledge
of, but I was, because I'm, I was not in my full awakening at the time.

(29:56):
And then, you know, time gone back and my grandma passed away, but like I was actually
being told that my grandma was a very, how do you say this?
She felt she was not really here in some ways.
Like if there was like, she was a really closed down in many aspects.
And someone was telling me that actually when she was younger, she was seeing people.

(30:17):
They were like, they were, she went to her grandma, to her mom many times saying, there
is people that are asking me to pass them, you know, to, to help them and that she will
go in the room and there isn't, you know, all of those things.
So like, I feel like that really came on about like closing the, like you would say, I'm
not available on boundaries, but like, I feel like, you know, it's just for, if I don't,

(30:39):
if I hold it this way, I am containing my circumstances.
So you hold, you, you just a shallow, a shadow of yourself or at least not a complete version
of who you are because you are blocking some part of it.
And I'm not saying that for you, but like, I felt like when you are in the, working with

(31:01):
those, those spaces, like if you're really closed down, I'm not saying, like, you know,
I never say this, like basically if you fully closed on everything instead of like, I'm
not available, I'm putting boundaries and things and I'm available for the rest.
That's very different.
But like, she's like, my grandma didn't have the tools and she was like closed everything
and she's like, that's it.
So it's, it's something that always worried someone when you were saying boundaries, because

(31:27):
actually I put these boundaries on my own.
So it's like, I was worried.
I've been asking myself that sometimes like, I had that.
So like now the more I get in, like in my psychic power and everything would take home
and I was like, I don't really feel like I want to do this thing.
That's not something I'm like, not really see.
So yeah, it's interesting.

(31:48):
Yeah.
Yeah, and the last place I lived in before this, I had a friend who was like, there's
some sort of person that lived there before you and he's still like lurking and I'm like,
no, no, thanks.
Don't want to talk to him.
And like, as soon as we got off of that call, I staged my entire house and I'm like, this

(32:10):
is my home now.
I kindly ask you to leave.
Like into every little corner around, because I'm just like, fuck no.
I don't want to see any entities ever.
And I'm like, you have to leave.
And you open the window and like, go away.
The only entity that I would be available to ever see is the ghost of my dog.

(32:31):
The only one.
And sometimes I do connect to him, but I don't like physically see him.
Sometimes I do connect to him and like meditation and stuff.
As he saved my life, I think.
Yeah.
Animals can be very powerful guides.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Beating fear for sure.
But you're right.
Yeah.
I do connect with my grandma in spiritual realm as well.

(32:53):
Like my daughter does that too as well.
But it's.
I love that.
That's cute.
Yeah.
I was like, close your eyes.
Because she, like she, like she was born when my grandma was very sick.
So when she was two years old, my grandma passed away.
So she didn't really have the real true memory.
So she has photographs and like hearsay things, you know, but like sometimes she'd be like

(33:17):
burst in crying and to like, you know, seeing like her grandma, like her mamily is like
she's making mamily.
Even though like, you know, she had, she really haven't really spent crazy amount of time
with her, but like there is that deep connection.
So last time I really had to take her to see her and her grandma, like her great grandpa

(33:37):
as well.
She just, she sat down because she couldn't switch off.
Like she couldn't.
There was something completely haywire.
And now that I'm saying this, it's like, I can see a lot of my daughter, my grandma in
my daughter in many aspects in terms of that.
I don't know how to say this without sounding weird.
I mean weird anyway.

(33:59):
But like I was thinking, I was closing my grandma had that all around very feeling very
sad all the time, like very like I'm a burst, like I'm a bubble, like I'm like a laugh and
everything.
Like my youngest daughter being like me in terms of behavior, but like I was like, where
is that coming from with my eldest?
And my eldest is more, she is more neutral in that sense.

(34:22):
When you're very neutral in your baseline, if something happened, you go down fast instead
of when you're very high, you can just go down, but you still like, you know, you're
not in the same level of neutrality or something like that.
So I feel like there is part of me that I do see on the horizon because that was something
for me when I was younger is when that came of like everything was very deep to my heart.

(34:45):
Everything.
Everything.
And I was like, gosh, like so I can see that in my daughter, but that's not sadness, it's
melancholy.
That's the word that really came for it.
That's that, you know, and for a long time when I was in my teens, I was really in that
phase of melancholy and then I just moved away.

(35:05):
And then I was like, but that was heavy.
Crazy.
No, it wasn't that heavy for you.
It's just like, it's just we created so many beautiful things in melancholy, but like if
you stay in that mellow, you're just like completely, there's something you cannot ground
anymore.
There is no grasp to the earth anymore.

(35:26):
You're completely up the air.
And yeah, so like melancholy, it's like it was such a fun ride now that you see it from
outside.
You were saying about that, no, I'm not available to melancholy anymore.
That's out of the door.
You please leave because that's not, yeah, I will create differently.
Thank you very much.
But you actually show me a lot of things about melancholy, like show the creation phase.

(35:51):
When you go mellow, the creation phase is very different.
But then you have that knowledge so you can tap into it without having that entire.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know if you know how it is.
I haven't.
We were talking about the man and then he fell and then turned his head.

(36:11):
It's not an entity.
That's so funny.
That's a physical being.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
Because I really got something.
I really say there's something in the room.
I just don't know what that is.
And like didn't see him.
He's such a cat.
I can't, you don't hear him coming.
Yeah.
I got second.

(36:32):
Yeah.
I relate to so much of what you just said.
Like I feel like that melancholy thing is very common when we're very sensitive.
I also was the same, very sensitive.
And I remember once I got to maybe early to mid twenties when I started feeling joy more

(36:53):
commonly and started breaking out of feeling that melancholy all the time, I remember I
would be really worried that I wouldn't have any inspiration to create art anymore because
I got so used to art being my therapeutic release to express my melancholy.

(37:16):
Like I was basically born, I always say I was basically born with a crayon in my hand
and was drawing all through childhood, all through my teenage years, all the way up until
being in college and being in an illustration class.
And then illustration was my homework and gone went the drawing for fun.

(37:39):
That killed the vibe.
Killed the vibe.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's right.
That was one of my scary parts because letting go of melancholy because you feel like you
feel it in the knock of like, that's it, you learn the information that you need to know
about that came.
Now it's neat for you to just change pace to another frequency.

(38:04):
And we're just like, but yeah, it's just like, there's so many things that got created there,
happy and sad at the same time, you know, like that really phase.
And then you're just like, oh my God, will I be able to create again?
I feel like that's very true.
And but like you were coming back to the awakening part.
It's like, this is still available to you because the creation was just you to really

(38:27):
being aware now that like with the capacity and the word that we use now, but like the,
it's really tapping into the frequency of creation within the melancholy, what actually
creation showed you and melancholy showed you about creation and really tap into it
because I remember I am not, I'm not a drawer.
I couldn't, I couldn't try a draw for saving my life.

(38:49):
That's I can't like, that's yeah.
My daughter said like my two daughters got the drawing gifts.
My son kind of like not really interested like me, I think that's, but I love to write.
I used to write a lot.
Yeah, that's an art too.
Yeah.
I used to write a lot and I used to write.
In imagery, what I actually was feeling with my life was like a story base, but I was not

(39:14):
me.
I was not me, but there was not me in the book.
It was just like, or the book, actually the, the letters that I was writing and I still
have one of them.
I don't know where the rest came.
This one is still in grain in my brain and I still, I think I found it again, like last
year, two years ago.
And it's just like, that was great, great work, you know, again for the age I was.

(39:40):
Yeah.
You know, it's just that.
Yeah, like it's just really encapsulated the, the teens age and I feel like we may have
similar experiences.
I'd love to hear from you about that, but the idea, like the teens were, they are brutal.
Like they are so brutal.
Yeah.
You could not pay me millions of dollars to be a teenager again.

(40:03):
No, especially now with social media.
With my wisdom?
True.
With our wisdom.
Yeah.
But I don't, are we going back with our wisdom?
With our wisdom.
Yeah, I'd do it.
With my wisdom, I'd do it.
Like I'd be like, I wouldn't be like my age would be like, probably like so far gone.
You'd be a billionaire at 16.
Not about money actually.

(40:24):
Yeah.
But like, it's not about the money though.
It's not about it, but I think, I think that's a possibility.
Could be, yeah, probably.
Like the, not myself in the business might be billionaire, like making billions.
That's the difference.
But yeah, it's just that feral moment of also really asking for independence when you are

(40:47):
in a, you're in a pickle with your parents.
You know, like wanting the independence and be like with all, probably the hormones, but
like not seeing what they are actually doing is in now, but in hindsight, it's for your
own fucking good.
Yes.
You know?
Like there is things not, like I was talking to you about the manifestation.

(41:10):
There was part of, I'm grateful for my parents to have stopped me from that because I'm like,
if I did follow with like my hormones or whatever that was, I would have followed a path that
like, everything happens for a reason.
So if that happened, it would be leading me to something else.
Like now seeing where I am, it would have led me to a path where, I read something around

(41:39):
the environment, it will be deeply influenced by your environment.
If like, let's say you are a teenager and your parents kind of like let you grow like
grass.
So like, I'm just like, it's a throwing this like very, they don't care about you.
They just like, you have food in the fridge and like, they don't know where you are, what

(42:00):
you've been, like, you know, they don't, they really don't even check on you like abuse.
You know, it's just like taking like that big picture, but this will probably lead you
to the wrong, wrong again, you know, like something to learn from it probably, but to
the wrong influences, to the wrong people, to the wrong circles.

(42:21):
That could lead you to trauma and then from trauma, like abuse of substances, whatever
that is that I personally now grateful that my parents really just stopped me in my tracks
because I never got drunk ever.
My parents never stopped me from drinking.
That's different, but like I never, I like smoking, I was not in an environment of smoking,

(42:45):
so I was not influenced into it as well.
Neither like any other things like that could be like very, say this, I don't have words
for that, but like basically kind of all the behaviors like teenage, some type of teenage
will go through.
I was in, I was guarded, like my parents are guarding me.

(43:06):
But at the same time you wanted to go out, but that was not like, I can't let you go
out there, but like this is not a safe environment for you and I really want you to, to have
like the best life ever, so I'm guarding you.
Let's say it's maybe challenging now to do it in our 2020 era because there's a lot of

(43:28):
things about the parenting has shifted a lot, but yeah, there is part of that.
I just lost my trigger pull.
So much goodness that you shared in here and yeah, well, I think what you just shared about
parents letting you grow like grass and that that could create some bad influences versus

(43:51):
them guarding you.
I feel like I got both.
I feel like I got both of those because I used to stay home alone when I was seven years
old.
I didn't realize that that was not okay until I was like in my late twenties.
I'm like what?
Because in my late twenties, I was babysitting a lot and I worked in a daycare and so like

(44:11):
seven year olds were a part of my life and I'm like I stayed home by myself at that age.
I remember asking my parents about it and they're like, oh yeah, you were very mature
and in my head I'm like, mama made me mature.
That was the nineties and counts.
It was the nineties and doesn't count, but I think, I think the, that, that part about
letting them grow like grass, it also creates like an abandonment wound and then we like

(44:38):
what happens in our family of origin, we then manipulate our personality so that other people
won't also abandon us.
So it just causes like so much stuff that I'm not sure if the conversation will meander
into that direction, but another thought that I had was what you were sharing about like
being a teenager and you're like in this pickle with your parents.

(45:01):
I also wonder if subconsciously when we're teenagers, if we're maybe grieving that we're
not like this free child anymore, cause like the world isn't like, the world doesn't have
this like magical anything is possible lens.
Like by the time we were a teenager, a couple of things have happened that have kind of

(45:23):
like beaten us down a bit.
Purity.
Hello.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, yeah, that's, that's an interesting thought.
I had never thought about it.
I've never thought about it either.
This came up in this conversation.
It does.
There is part of that.
It could be like, you know, in terms of like more sign basis, like the omen and everything.

(45:47):
And also I feel like one, there was, I would say another layer because it's something as
well that really shifted in our own, in very short amount of time, like 2000 years in human
history is nothing.
You know, it's a lot for us, but it's nothing in grand scheme of what is it to be a human.
But when we were 13 in the Greek, in the Roman, in all of those civilizations, at 13 boys

(46:12):
were going out two years in the, in the, in the wild wilderness.
Like you had to become a man.
Yeah.
By themselves.
Yeah.
Like try to learn to hunt, like to like basically survive for two years.
So you became, you became a, like you became a, I feel like it's maybe sometime as well
for us.
It could be like ancient Greek, like Roman history, like DNA that's still lingering in

(46:36):
some of us, you know, like there's probably some part of that in, in like everything in
Europe, everything got melts and mixed and everything.
So they probably have, we have trained the epigenetics from that part of our lives.
And it's like, there's a lot of things that happened in that at 13, a lot of things changed

(46:57):
as well in even in the dark ages.
I don't like it's, we call it dark ages in English, but we don't call it dark ages in
there.
We call it middle age because like it was the transition from the, the end of the Roman
empire, middle age, like something where like everything like structure came down.
So we had to find a middle way of living, you know, like a reconstructing until Renaissance,

(47:21):
like in the Europe, at least in France, because I'm more aware of that, of history around
that.
It's like a lot of things like when we were, you got married earlier at the time, you got
having, you had babies earlier than we are now.
Not seeing it's good thing.
Cause we not developed, like our mind is not developed at that age, like completely to

(47:44):
really understand what's really happening and making like consent choice and all of
those kinds of things behind it as well that is very different.
Yeah, it's, there is something about the green, like the greening, the golden age.
That's probably, I believe there's something there, but it's also other layers of maybe
probably and at 13 we are, it's like we post, like we actually, it's not 13, it's 14, you

(48:12):
know, like we all say that they're going to cycles.
You have the first seven years that is about family anchored, you know, I don't know.
I would have to research more.
I don't have my, yeah, it's basically wrote chakra.
This was thinking about that, but it was like, it was more scientific that it based when
I read that, but there is like that at seven years old, there is a new unlock and then

(48:34):
at 14 there is a new unlock as well.
And this is where you stop, like your parents get very annoying.
Anything they say super annoying and you go, they're going to tell you something and it's
like, oh my shut up.
I can't hear you anymore.
But if you had a friend, like an adult friend, that would be the same, that would say the
same thing, that would not learn the same way because there is something for us that

(48:57):
they're more likely to listen to them.
It's biochemistry.
That's what it is.
The biochemistry in the mind at that age really shifted into you're going to become an adult.
You become, you are going to become independent.
So now you have to stop making choices, but at the same time, you're not fully formed

(49:19):
to make those complete choices.
I tried to teach that to my kids.
I'm like, there is a lot of things you can choose, but there is a lot of things that
I won't let you choose right now because you're a child.
There is things like this that I'm trying to use.
Like they're not seven years.
So I need to just plan to see everything.
So I might have a better teenage.
I don't know, but it's all of those.

(49:41):
I feel like it's everything.
I feel like in any way, there is a lot of nuance and a lot of like parts that links
together as well.
I love everything you just shared about the history as well of having that initiation
at 14 and that back in the middle ages, or I think we also call it medieval times.

(50:05):
Are those the same times?
Yes, that medieval times.
It is, right?
It's the same time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Beautiful.
Some people reference that dark ages because that was the end of, just very short because
I used to be a sucker for history, but in the third century, after the rise of Christ,
they changed the name.

(50:27):
I think it's AD now, but they used to be BCE.
I don't know anyone, but it was like that crumble of the Roman Empire completely.
They came for crumble completely so that they had grasped everything in Europe.
When something like a huge empire like that collapsed, there was no more structure, so

(50:49):
we had to recreate the structure so it takes time.
Also that beginning of the Christianity in that part of the world as well, that was the
structure.
The structure got shifted into religion.
Very fun.
Yeah, very fun purity culture.
Very fun, yeah.

(51:11):
Well, that was definitely not the best time to be human, I think, anyway.
You could die, like really literally die for just drinking water.
Yeah, yeah.
Something, yeah.
Teenagers do that any day compared to the medieval times, for sure.

(51:32):
But I love that you bring that up because I think realizing our collective generational
path with this knowing that we were having children when we were still children, I think
gives us a better understanding of where our collective traumas come from.

(51:52):
Like you said with telling your child, you can make this choice, but there are certain
things I won't make, like I won't let you choose.
Even being able to have that open communication with children, I feel like it's fairly new.
I feel like it's very new to have open communication with your kids because we're having children

(52:16):
that older ages now.
We also have, we're in the information age where we have so much more knowledge.
But back then and for a long time as well, my mom was 18 when she had me.
I think in the 80s it was still more popular then to have children when you were in your
teens.
I know that that number is going down.

(52:36):
I know it still happens, but I know that that number is going down.
But that used to be the norm.
Like everyone was having kids when they were teenagers.
So then if children are raising children when the baby is having a tantrum or whatever is
happening, like all that's happening is everyone's being triggered.

(52:57):
And then it's just like, no wonder trauma kept getting passed on.
Does that make sense?
What I'm saying?
It does.
It does.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like it was very normal to be married at 18, 20 and like 22 having at least 22 already
have one child, maybe more.
That was very, very normal.

(53:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would be like more connecting to my grandparents in that sense because I know my grandparents
my mom was born, my grandma was 22.
And I think it's the same around the same age for my dad's dad.
But my mom had me at 30.
So it's like I was already in like the new wave maybe something like that.

(53:39):
But it like, oh wait.
Like I was admiring and loved to talk to people that had kids very early because they were
I feel like I saw two categories of people like again, like not it's kind of creating
boxes but I feel like there is people that be like, it's a choice.

(53:59):
They're like they made that choice of like they had it.
I suppose we heard and like they go like about their life and you know, like years later
they still like like have added more kids in their in their life.
That is like the sure thing.
And there's all people that are like, oops, that was not planned.
And then like trying to just meddle things.

(54:20):
And it's just like, again, I feel like the trauma in it very different as well when you
get to you know, being like, legally in Ireland, like in France, in Ireland, in most Europe,
we are an adult at 18.
So it was like we're not teenagers anymore.
But like again, like 18 to 25 we just dumb.

(54:45):
Amen, amen, so true.
So true.
Sometimes on Facebook, my like statuses will come up from between 18 and 25 because Facebook
already existed when I was that age.
And sometimes I'm like, oh my god, delete this.
That is embarrassing.
It's like there is one photo that came, came like I think like last month, I'm sure it

(55:09):
was last month.
A photo of me and a friend of mine that is living in Switzerland and a photograph of us
like it's like 14 years ago and I was like 14 years ago.
And they're just like tagging like and I was just like, you remember like 14 years ago?
And I was like, my kids were looking at the photograph and I'm like, my partner was making
the photograph and I said to her like, but you know that what she's wearing, like she

(55:31):
had like a black shirt, you know, like button up shirt and a red and white, like a red top
with a cross, a white cross because basically that was the Switzerland country.
And I said to my partner, but do you know it's actually was paint that was body paint.
She was not wearing anything else.

(55:53):
I was like, oh my god, the things we've done.
All of those kind of things.
It was just like, it was like, it was fun for like that, that like seeing those people
doing this, but now I'm like, yeah, like I don't comprehend it.
It's non-judging.
I'm just like completely as it's like, yeah, don't get it.
But do you, you know, it's kind of.
Yeah.

(56:13):
I like this.
Those ages somewhat.
That's why I'm really glad that TikTok didn't exist when we were like eight and we were
doing what people on TikTok are doing, like how they're like dancing to songs.
Like we were doing that in our bedrooms.
We were doing that at our sleepovers with friends.
It just wasn't being documented on the internet for everyone to see.

(56:36):
And I am so grateful for that boundary that our, our time gave us.
True.
It still can be created now, but the only thing is we were talking about boundaries
and like, you know, guarding things.
There is part of that, that as parents that we have to like, I'm starting my, like my
daughter, my eldest, because my youngest won't get that information.

(56:59):
But when they get that, I tell her, but like, am I basically already setting the scene?
Like yes, this today we went to the post office with her and they sell phones there.
Like, you know, they have like a phone option and they were like, you know, the Nokia with
the buttons, that's kind of the new version of the, the Nokia you used to have in, in

(57:20):
the early 2000s.
Oh my gosh.
Oh my gosh.
It actually was yellow, it was disgusting color.
And I said to her, like, you know, she, she was looking at the smartphone and I was like,
but you know, when you get older, that'll be the one, like the Nokia one.
I would say to her, I was like, but no, no, like it's not a good color.
You have to take one from you.
I have the old Sony Ericsson that was opening up and it's paid.

(57:41):
I said, but I can charge and use that one.
It's like, I was like, actually quite smart.
Yeah, that could, you could work.
If you're happy with this one, that's the one you're going to get.
It's just all of the things that was like, oh my God.
Yeah.
I'm learning my kids are like, you know, there's things that your friends will do.
I would not let you do it just because I love you and like preparing things because maybe

(58:04):
that'd be easier in my teenage.
I don't know.
But yeah, they were like internet is a scary place.
Like it's a marvelous place.
We got, we got to meet and now we're meeting in person as well.
It's all so, so excited.
But it's like for kids again, coming back to not having the cognitive ability to really

(58:29):
understand.
I don't think that's a place for a child that should go there and supervise.
I agree.
I was, I was watching this video about nose jobs recently and the person was reading comments
like on a Tik Tok post and someone was asking like, how old do I have to be to get one?

(58:51):
Because it was a video about nose jobs.
It was like, I'm 13.
How old do I need to be to get a nose job?
And I'm just like, a 13 year old is watching that and the 13 year old is already thinking
she needs to change her nose.
Like I don't know what it is about like women versus men.
I know non-binary people exist as well, but for some reason, social media and seeing images

(59:18):
of perfect women really harm girls a lot.
I'm not sure if, if boys are also seeing like perfect body men and feeling the same body
image stuff.
Cause I haven't heard of that myself and I'm also, I identify as a woman.
So I'm just saying from my perspective and from the perspective of clients I work with,

(59:41):
like girls really get affected by seeing.
It's different from what I've witnessed again on the other side of the women sphere.
I think there is a friend that is scary for boys.
There was two trends I feel like they were quite scary for boys is the first one.

(01:00:05):
I feel like the more, how does this name like the guy that had sunglasses, like it's basically
the alpha male like body count, whatever.
That's kind of the vibe, but that 13 years old will see him.
13 years old will see him, will listen to him and realize that will make assumption
that what he says is like, it's the truth.

(01:00:27):
I didn't even think about that.
You know, that's the, like I think they call it the red pill movement or something like
that.
I could be wrong, but that would be kind of the first and that's very sexually oriented
of like male is about, you know, body counts and all of those kinds of shitty things.
I could feel like it, it's like it was around, but it was different, you know, it always

(01:00:50):
been around.
And again, there is nothing wrong about exploring your own body and everything, which is something
that you are holding space for people as well yourself.
So you know, you probably know better than I might, but like, this is something that
it's about like removing the shame, but there is a level of removing the shame and also
saying this is not correct.

(01:01:11):
This is like, this is going too far, you know, and it's kind of getting coming back to the
gate.
You can explore that's your kingdom, but you don't go outside the kingdom because that's
another place for you.
But there's one that would be the trend that personally has seen a witness and I was like,
that's a big, like a big pill to swallow, no pun intended, but like that's one of the

(01:01:33):
things.
And the other one would be, I don't know if something I can say in the podcast, but I'm
going to say anyway, you can edit if you don't want to, don't want to have this in.
But there is also the 30 years, which were in many aspects, I'm very grateful for that
wave of feminism, but there's also a wave of feminism that has been brought up like,

(01:01:56):
I don't need a man.
I don't need like, you know, I can do it everything on my own, blah, blah, blah.
And like basically not really having space to hold each other in terms of like mirroring.
Again, like, you know, it's more about like, I'm talking about men and women, but again,
like homosexuality is a thing as well, but there is, it's different.

(01:02:17):
Like there is, I don't have the full knowledge of that because I'm not in that, like I'm
not really researching around that, but it's more like that deep wounding of heteronamy.
Kind of like a father wound, no?
Like a collective father wound.
Could be.
Could be.

(01:02:37):
I feel like it's more on the feminist side to me.
Because I don't need a man as like, part of it is training women to be like, to be quote
unquote masculine, which masculine does not mean man, but I just feel like-
Masculine or extremely feminine.

(01:03:00):
Like that to a point that it's actually sexualizing your femininity, but not in the sense of like,
I'm happy and I'm comfortable with my sexuality, like really being like making it a show out
of what your sexuality is.
And I'm like, not in a judgy way, I'm just like more, I think that could be like that
thing that overlaps.

(01:03:21):
Like performing.
Yeah, performing, I think there's part of that.
But there is that part of like where I probably, I can see that when men, some men will actually
wonder where the feet fit, it's either you're over masculine and it's all about the body
counts and the other side of like, but the women don't want you.

(01:03:41):
So where do you go from there?
There's all the ways, like there is different ones, but I feel like if they're the big,
big heavy ones that I feel like it's going to be, could be challenging for young boys,
young men to navigate, I think.
That would be more from my own like personal research that I would say that.

(01:04:02):
But again, I'm sure there is other movements and I really hold space that some of those
beautiful souls that were like in the teenage can have access to healing before we like,
before they eat the awakening phase, you know, all of these things.
So they can maybe go faster than us in terms of healing and understanding.

(01:04:26):
That's something that I personally hope this is something that gets accessible, but again,
your Instagram accounts, even TikTok is even worse in that sense, everything you click
will change everything.
You see, because it's an algorithm.
It's an algorithm and I fell into one, one algorithm, like I'm never going on TikTok,

(01:04:49):
but like I went today, like today and I think two days ago and the rabbit hole you got into
and you cannot extract yourself and you're like, and then I just was like, hang on, I'm
in my kitchen.
And that was my whole body was like, oh my God, oh my God, like that's fear mongering.
And I was like, hang on, I'm in my kitchen.
Whatever that is, it's not my shit, not my circus, my circus.

(01:05:13):
And it just stopped the app.
And I'm like, that's me being 37.
How about a 17 year old?
25, earlier than 25 years old falling into that.
That's how conspiracy get brought up.
That's how, again, there is part of conspiracy that we found truth into it, but it's part

(01:05:34):
of how we mold consciousness, the brainwashing that happens.
And it could be a brainwashing for silly things.
What I've just sort of was like kind of silly, I don't know what that would be putting this
into silliness, but it's just like, oh, you know, I'm so far from it.
But again, if you're 17 and you just fall into this, like you remember how much, like

(01:05:58):
anything we were doing was added to us.
I don't know, but like I'm just giving an example is the scenes.
Have you played scenes?
How many hours did you play?
I never, I've never really gotten into video games actually, but I had friends that would
play Sims.
Yeah.
I would play the little key train Tetris.
I don't know playing Tetris, never played.
I played the little key chain Tetris and then also not be addicted to that's about it.

(01:06:22):
My parents were very strict with like TV and stuff.
I never really started watching TV until I was probably like 12.
And it was very restricted.
It was like only Disney channel and Nickelodeon, which is now when you know about Nickelodeon
you're like, right.
Right.
Yeah.
We were watching that.
But yeah, I get you.

(01:06:42):
Yeah, I agree.
Like for me, it was like more no TV before 12.
There were no TV in the morning.
Never.
So all the kids show that we had in France were in the morning.
So all my friends had a kind of a cultural generational, like, like I'd say that like
collective memory that I don't have because there was no, I mean, I mean, what's so healing

(01:07:06):
about that now though, is that like we have streaming services where we can watch videos
and we have streaming services where we can watch anything.
And I've loved watching stuff that were like, you know, popular amongst my friends when
I was a kid that I wasn't allowed to watch.
I love that I'm able to watch it now.
Isn't it like your, it's so great.

(01:07:28):
Small self like your like baby self that was like, yeah, I'm doing this in the tunnel.
I'm like, yeah.
Yeah, it's so healing.
Even with music too.
It's healing.
Because like when we were kids in order to listen to certain music, like you had to go
by the CD or switch into your radio and be ready to record on the tape.

(01:07:49):
I don't know if you did this, but yeah, that's like, and it was like, they're just starting
to talk.
Stop talking.
I just want the music.
But like, in fairness, like, again, like there is good things that happen and also challenging
things, but like, like I have internet.
I think I was one of the, my friends among my friends having the first person having

(01:08:10):
internet access.
Cause my dad loves like in the new techs and everything.
So I had internet access.
I think I 98 already had internet, like, which is not like, I don't know if in the US how
it is, but like in France, that was not really, I was starting to pick up, but like not crazy.
I remember doing a expose for my, I think it was like third or fourth grade or something

(01:08:37):
like that.
For an Ancapta, you know, like the Microsoft Ancapta, you know, like the, it's an encyclopedia.
It basically was like, the encyclopedia was actually was online so you could access everything.
That used to be the old, it's the ancient Google, the old Google.

(01:08:58):
In terms of history and geography and everything.
It's the ancient Google play job anyway, but it's just, but my parents did things like,
let me do things that now being a mother of three, that will never happen in my house.
No, that's not even, no.
I used to have internet access when I was 12 in my, in my bedroom.

(01:09:21):
Which is like, you know, I had the internet table, like literally like passing all the
living room up to downstairs to get to my bedroom, like was 20 meters.
I don't think, I don't think parental controls were a thing at that time.
No, it's not.
I think the internet was just like, chatting online.

(01:09:41):
I was like, Lucie, Lucielike it's like that.
And I was like, oh my God, the groomers were there already.
But like, I'm sure I was, I was in chats with groomers for sure.
Yes.
That was the crazy part of like, you know, like going on chats and spending like my time
off like in chatting with people that never met.

(01:10:02):
And like, you know, we were meeting and then we were sending, we're giving each other our
addresses, like proposal address.
So we could send photographs to each other's like, this is how I look, blah, blah, blah,
you know?
And that's the first red flag.
The second red flag, I remember my mom dropping me because one of my friends online were actually
in his grandparents were in the same city of my own.

(01:10:26):
So one day it was actually this, he was living in the south of France, but he was visiting
his grandparents in the, in close to Paris.
And my mom literally dropped me, like it drove me to the city mall and just like, bye, not
even checking who it was.
Oh my God.
That's just so dangerous.

(01:10:46):
I would never do this, you know, but I think it was another time.
It was the 90s, it doesn't count.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, actually, you're right.
This was more in early 20s, but like 2000s, 2000s.
It's the same.
It's the same as the 90s.
It's the same vibe.
It's the 90s.
But if that, I was like, that's crazy.
I would never ever do that.
Ever.

(01:11:07):
Who is it?
Where the name, like all of this kind of, the name of the parents with the phone numbers,
like you're not going anywhere.
You take your air tag, like you're, I have the air tag as well.
Like my daughter has air tag, you know, like she doesn't go anywhere, but like she has
now get to, she doesn't really know what it is, but like she will take it with her.

(01:11:27):
Like she knows like something that she has to take with her.
So at least she, like, I know where she's like, if an iPhone is around, I know where
she is and I have an alert if she goes outside of the publisher.
Yeah, I know.
Maybe if you were talking about the information, information era, I think we also know a lot,

(01:11:49):
like so too much.
So now we kind of like where we go.
Our parents didn't know that like your kids are going into chat rooms and I did that too
and talking to strangers, which I did that too.
I never gave anyone my address and like, I just, it was just all, you know, innocent talking,
but I'm sure there were groomers in those chats as well.

(01:12:12):
I do, I have that real big sense than one of them was because they're the one that would
do more like trick secretive in some ways.
And it was weird for our age to be acting like that, you know, compared to the other
people.
Like again, never like, he never came to anything and I never met that person and I've been

(01:12:33):
like, no, I was not talking to him.
Heard like one-on-one was like a group chat.
So we're basically, everyone was like, at least it was in front of everyone.
It was a different life, different times.
And again, maybe it's because we know too much as well.
Yeah.
I was thinking of my best friend, sorry.

(01:12:54):
I'm just thinking about her.
She's like the way she, when she goes to bed and the way she closed the door and everything,
I said, I see too much true crime.
Like you're living in a forest level of a building.
You never know, they could climb.
And I was like, no, I don't want to know.
Yeah, nope.

(01:13:14):
Nope.
Nope.
It's just, yeah.
It's like, again, that happened, but like how many in millions of people in the world
that really happened to like probably is very insignificant, but it's, it's a good for the
person that happened to them.
Yeah.
Actually, I guess the information here can have, it can be a blessing and a challenge.

(01:13:36):
Like I think as everything has polarity anyway.
What would you do in, cause in these chat rooms, you're speaking French, right?
Yeah.
What they do here in America, we would do this thing, a slash S slash L and it meant
age, sex and location.

(01:13:56):
Would they do that in the chat rooms in French, in France?
I think we had something like that.
Age, sex, it's probably the same actually, because it's the same word in English, like
starting with the letter.
That reminds me of something, but I'm like, I can't really remember.
We did something like that, but I was, I was, I was a fan of Harry Potter and I was on the

(01:14:21):
Harry Potter chat room.
It was not, we not took a Harry Potter, but we were like having fake identities and everything,
which was fun, you know?
We were like, this one is in couple with this person.
And then like, you know, they stopped being together and they go to this part.
Like, you know, it was just the fun, fun, innocent play, I'd say.
Like it's something that we've maybe had like before the internet time, we have done that

(01:14:45):
with our friends in the, you know, play dates or something like that.
So yeah, I don't know.
It's interesting too, how like the internet used to be like that, where, where you had
a username that wasn't, it wasn't common to put, make your name be your, your name.
Like my username was not Celia Antonio, like it was something else.

(01:15:07):
And then, and then when we had, I think Zenga was the next thing that came out.
Did you ever have Zenga?
It was like a blog.
It was like an online diary slash blog.
You'd also have usernames for that.
No, we had Skyraw.
Skyraw?
Skyblogs.
Skyblogs.
Okay.
Sky was actually a radio, a French radio.

(01:15:28):
So it was Sky radio and they just created a way for people to create blogs and yeah,
people use blogs and that's the first, the first Instagram account.
Yeah.
And then from there it went to...
We rolled our hearts and the colleagues.
Over here it then went to MySpace after that.
Did you guys have MySpace?

(01:15:49):
Yes, we did have MySpace.
And with MySpace too, you had a username, I think.
I'm pretty sure you had a username.
I don't know if it was our full name.
I think, well, you could put your full name because I remember following Stephanie Jarim,
I can't remember her last name, Lady Gaga, but when she used to have her personal name,

(01:16:10):
not her business, not her...
We used to be friends on MySpace, which was really odd.
We never talked, no one happened and never talked to her.
But hang on, who is this person?
And I realized like, what?
Lady Gaga?
Oh my God.
Years later, remembering that, I remember really just like gave her name.

(01:16:32):
That remained, that rings a bell.
I was like, oh my God, MySpace.
But anyway, that was old time.
Yeah, we had MySpace and I resisted Facebook really literally to cover anyway.
So I had to.
I had to.
Again, you can choose, but at the time all your friends were there.
So the funds were happening on Facebook.

(01:16:53):
So you were going in the likes and the pokes.
Pokes and the quizzes of like, what's your favorite music or I don't know.
I remember there being so many quizzes.
And when I look back now, I'm like, that's why their ads are so good because they have
all this information on us that we gave away freely because of the games.
They did this 20 years ago.

(01:17:14):
They did this 20 years ago.
They were grooming us.
Yeah.
And also with Facebook, like we're using our full name on Facebook.
And I remember, like you said, at first it was all your friends on there, but I don't
know if you remember this part, but I remember there was a shift eventually, maybe like 2008

(01:17:35):
where it wasn't just kids anymore on Facebook, where it was like, now your mom has a Facebook.
Now your grandma has a Facebook.
Now your aunt has a Facebook.
Do you remember that?
Do you remember that shift?
No, because my parents were not on Facebook.
Oh, they're not on Facebook to this day?
My mom is, my dad will even have a t-shirt.

(01:17:56):
I'm not on fucking Facebook, but anyway, that's another story.
I love that.
Yeah, it had this shift of like, it was just us having fun and then one day it just got
old, no kidding.
Yeah.
I remember, I think I might've temporarily deactivated my Facebook during that time.
I was like, my parents are on here.

(01:18:18):
I really loved Facebook when it was like, I can't even remember when I started Facebook.
I know I was not in the early adopters, but I remember one of the best time ever for creativity
was at the point we could actually have our profile picture that were not just a square.

(01:18:38):
I don't know if you remember that, when you actually had, you could put your photograph,
but it didn't have to be a square.
You could have another shape.
I remember with friends, we were trying to create something and you had the cover thing
or the cover is not a thing yet.
I don't know if the cover was a thing yet, but we could create something in a very long

(01:19:03):
format so we could, it was fun.
That part in one day just disappeared.
It's like, that's it.
It's square for everyone.
I'm like, oh, I've missed that part.
That moment, that very key moment on Facebook because that was fun.
We couldn't create, it's not much creation anymore if you're like for people.
Facebook is like photographs.

(01:19:25):
If you have a bit, I feel like the biggest shift that I saw is business because Facebook
was friends and family, kind of like, let's just chat to each other, just another way
to connect with photograph, which the phone, we didn't have that.
People had the smart phones or anything like that.
Then one day just had people realizing, have the world open to me and starting to become

(01:19:54):
a business.
I was seeing coming back to that cover.
Usually if you have a business and you're running something, the cover shows what you
currently doing.
You have a photograph that is, if you own business, I mean, you have that photograph
that is snaps of you.
Nothing wrong.
We all have that.
We all have that, what they snatch meaning on brand.

(01:20:15):
And your bio is not like, I love butterflies and running in the sun.
It's basically like what you actually enjoy.
The creative is kind of dead.
It's fine.
It was not the way I learned.
I got introduced to Facebook for sure.
I definitely ventured back to Facebook because of business because there was a time where

(01:20:38):
Facebook was very dead because everyone was on Instagram.
It was so quiet on Facebook because everyone was over on Instagram.
No one was posting anything anymore, at least in who I was following.
It's funny to be able to just reminiscing that we actually been living in two, how do

(01:21:00):
you say this, they call it two century.
But in less than 40 years, we have had nearly 40 decades, we've been touching 40 decades
of culture and shift and everything, which I feel like people, maybe even my partner
that is a bit older than me, don't have the same shift that us because internet got introduced

(01:21:23):
to me.
I was not even a teen.
I was not even a teen when I had access to internet, which was for him.
He was nearly an old teenage.
We saw the shift, but again, as you were saying, thank God there was a lot of things that we
didn't see me that is nowhere.

(01:21:45):
But they were YouTube though.
It's like old things from.
I've definitely deleted things on YouTube that my past self uploaded.
I wish I would have saved it though in hindsight because the older you get, you have so much
more compassion for your younger self and your cringe moments are suddenly cute to you.

(01:22:06):
That's cool.
Melancholy, the real one.
Nostalgia, sorry, it's nostalgia.
Nostalgia, yeah.
I've loved this little nostalgic meandering we went into.
I'd love to go into some questions that I always ask on my podcast.

(01:22:27):
I'm sure I asked you this when I had you on in like 2022.
I don't know if I was asking this yet.
Maybe I was.
The first question is, what does self-love mean to you?
Self-love to me is faith.
That's what is the most important thing for me, creating space for being able to hear

(01:22:50):
me.
I'm saying hearing is more in the body sense because when we get extremely agitated with
the world, like having kids and all the things that's going on in the world within your own
world, I think space gets dropped.
For me, that's the biggest part.
Space and connection with your body, it just creates a malfocused thing because it really

(01:23:14):
grounds you and it really allows you to really work into your own nervous system regulation
for sure.
That goes so well into the next question, which is what makes you feel the most grounded?
Faith?
No, I'm kidding.
The most grounded is, to me, the most...

(01:23:40):
I have a DHD, so I'm not on medication, but the biggest...
How do you say this?
Do it straight.
Breathwork.
Breathwork has been such a catalyst for me, really understanding the breath and becoming
a practitioner in breathwork really shifted a lot of things for having a mind that is

(01:24:03):
getting very scattered very fast because we have shiny syndrome embedded in our DNA.
We're like, oh, I love this and I love that.
The breathwork really come back into helping you being in a homeostasis, so you can again
coming back to your body and hear the little voice, not the thousandth one that are louder
than that one.

(01:24:24):
Yeah, breathwork is so grounding.
Breathwork for me was the first modality that helped me come home to myself.
Yeah, it's so important to be aware of your breath.
I feel like the most biggest shift with breathwork that...

(01:24:47):
Now I know it's not addictive because I don't do it every single time of my life, but it's
actually when you're doing all the very deep in deep breathwork and you empty your lungs
and you stop breathing for as long as you can and being able to hear your body empty

(01:25:08):
with your heart beating, but you're not feeling your heart on your chest, you're feeling like
you're inside your chest and feeling like you can see the heart.
Like you are in the...
Can I say this?
When you know the people that are swimming under the sea, they go to...
Oh, that's the tank.
What's the name?

(01:25:28):
Like the scuba tank?
Prevention tank.
No, it's prevention tank.
That's what I was actually looking for.
It's basically that for me, it's that prevention tank.
Like you're predicting everything and then that's present.
Like when you get there, like that you experience real presence because there is nothing else,
but what your body, your biology is doing without your control in a sense, you know?

(01:25:53):
And it's just like, it's like, whoa, what was that about?
You feel like you are such a big room in the darkness, but there's something, so something
so strong into that.
Yeah.
I've never been in a sensory deprivation tank, but I can imagine why you would make that
distinction because yeah, it makes total sense then that feeling of like you're in your heart

(01:26:20):
and yeah, it's like a stillness, but also energy at the same time.
Like there's stillness and movement at the same time.
Stillness, movement and safety.
Because you're not breathing, but you know you will breathe again.
So you are like, you are a no sense of letting go of like, because we always, what if, what

(01:26:42):
if, what if breath is such, we do that the first day.
We're like the first second we out of our mothers, but it's just, that's what happened.
It's just like, we know it's coming.
So it's just coming back like, okay, how long can I hold it?
And then it's just like, oh my God, the amount of spaciousness you get.
Like you feel like you were away for so long, even though it was probably a few seconds,

(01:27:07):
but it's just, and actually would love to hear from someone that actually you deep dives
without tanks because they have, they're not breathing for like, they're not breathing
for like some of the, is it 15 minutes up to 15 minutes?
It's like, or less, but it's crazy.

(01:27:27):
Yeah.
Not crazy in the sense of like, wow, I would love to know what's coming.
Basically there is not even the word, the, the frequency of your body, like of your,
of your breath is completely off.
So there is no noise only what's coming, like what is in your body.
That's the only noise that you hear.

(01:27:48):
Yeah.
I'd love to hear, I need to book, find a book about that.
I need to know.
Yeah.
And then as you are underwater, cause my husband is someone that he likes to dive for lobsters.
And when you're under that water, he really does feel very still.
And there's this like whole world where you can see the seaweed.

(01:28:13):
Sometimes you see, if you're very still for a long time, you'll see all these like crabs
coming out and all the life around you.
Yeah.
It's wild.
That would be great to find a memoir about a free diver.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I want to read that too.
Let me know if you find something.

(01:28:33):
My phone is listening to us.
It probably shows me something.
Yes, you'll get an ad.
Are you joking?
It's kind of scary.
Yeah.
Live with the era.
Live with the era.
Let's watch this.
The next question I have for you is what's your favorite part about being a woman?
Well, I feel like I need to test some of that.

(01:28:54):
Yeah, feel free to take your time.
I grew up to be extremely challenged being a woman, like really challenged being a woman.
Like teenage were, again, coming back to brutal.
That was what's happened.
Not teaching the norms from other people.

(01:29:15):
The boob area was not developing the way other friends were.
Yeah.
It was like learning to be, for me, it's more the learning to be a woman that has been the
journey and the sensuality connected with the body because you can be sensual with being

(01:29:36):
and being disconnected completely.
Like you could have, I feel like it's, I would call it the grace.
You know, when she was just so graceful.
There is part of the beginning of graceful that is usually not embodied.
It's just an expression and then you get to go into the body and really embody that.

(01:29:57):
I personally were, I had my best friend, but I never really got very close to women when
I was like younger and even my early adulthood because women were not safe in many ways.
They could turn their back in any second time.

(01:30:17):
Now I know that I was battling with, how do you say this, like abandonment-ish, like trauma.
Mother wound.
And it's just mother wound.
Yes.
And sister wound as well.
Sister wound as well.
Which wound, everything.
So it's been like battling this and having it, for me, like really becoming a woman is

(01:30:40):
actually reconnecting to each part of me, my old part and really, as you were saying
about compassion, of like all that compassion and really see her for what, who she was and
what she knew and then reconnecting her with myself now, with what I know.
So I can actually alchemize some part of trauma that were there.

(01:31:03):
And I feel like that it can be done with men as well, but yeah.
And that's my journey to womanhood and becoming a mother.
Kind of like there is nothing more than, there is nothing more than the most creative thing
you can make as a female body.

(01:31:25):
But it also brings all the challenges.
But yeah, that would be that's like the compassion for past cell, the healing of some of the
cold wounds that were lingering for a very long time.
And the last thing would be feeling extremely safe around other women.

(01:31:50):
That was not the case for a long time.
Yeah.
Like realizing that I hold space for like 15 plus people.
And I was like, they were all women.
What?
It was like, I would never have done that.
Like one year ago, maybe like 15.
So yeah.
Yeah.
It's so liberating to be able to have the capacity to both receive and give to other

(01:32:17):
women, like in order to have space for sisterhood in your life.
I think also when we have that capacity, we deepen our knowledge of who we are and our
intuition and our knowing of who we are because women are such incredible mirrors.
Like when you both identify as women and you're both coming into spaces where you're witnessing

(01:32:38):
each other, like women's circles or even just among friends, it's such a powerful mirror
in my opinion.
And I love it so much.
And I love you.
I love you too.
We get to meet soon.
Yes.
I'm so excited.
I want to ask you also about your work, but first I need to pee.

(01:33:00):
I need a bio break.
My bathroom is right here.
I'm going to mute myself.
I knew that too.
My past self would have just not said anything and continued with the conversation even though
my body had to pee.

(01:33:20):
But personally as an ADHD, I did not notice I needed to pee before you told me.
I was like, oh, actually I do too.
It's more like I'm so focused and things and the bio things get on the side.
I was like, yeah, we don't need this right now.
They just, but yeah, like yeah, go, go, go, go.
There is no time.

(01:33:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
See, and that's the good thing when we speak up about what our body needs, like it gives
you permission to go pee too.
It does.
I love it.
Yeah.
Okay.
So for the people who have tuned in, tell us about your work and where they can connect
with you, how they can work with you, where they can find you, all those things.

(01:34:03):
Do you have 15 minutes?
No.
I do.
I feel like I'm such in a shift and I'm like, I'm just not sure what I'm sharing today will
be, will be still true tomorrow.
Cause I'm like, I've been evolving in like a very fast pace.
But like the, one of the words that I like, what I personally love doing is helping people

(01:34:27):
connecting with the three sides of, of the self.
Like it's not the multifaceted with the three sides, it's the body, the rewiring of the
mind, like the neuro pathways.
Like I'm so like, so obsessed with that and also your intuition.
And I feel like that's where this is the reason I work with entrepreneurs as well, because
we have, we've done a lot of the work as an entrepreneur.

(01:34:49):
Like you've done the awakening happen to you when you're an entrepreneur, like there's
no other ways because it gets slapped into your face at some point.
It is really taking people back into presence and space.
What is the biggest far part for me and connection with yourself, but then connection with others
in a more safe embodied and deeper meaningful ways.

(01:35:12):
It's the way I love working with people.
And like, as you know me for two years, you know, that's kind of the thing that I do.
Like I don't do weather, like I do weather, but like I don't do weather like for two hours.
I will do like weather and then just like, let's go into it.
You know, just like talking about business, talking about value, beliefs, domestication,

(01:35:32):
all of that thing that can, that influence everything, every decision making that we
do.
So it's when we work into integrating the somatic, the rewiring and the intuition, we
get a very clear map of what we want to create in this world.
And also it's a hard thing to say because I know, I know it's what it's meant to happen,

(01:35:54):
but like when you actually follow that path, there is the path that you currently in will
be actually probably shaken to enforce you into a new direction.
That's the death, you know?
And I love taking people into that, that, that cave moment, that darkness, because there
is so much goodness into it.

(01:36:15):
Like it's not, it could be ugly sometimes, but like there is so much goodness because
you really tap into what purpose is for you, what is the real true purpose you're here
to be.
And it only happens in space when you have, you're in full presence of yourself.
Never happens like in the fluke or you might have heard it, but again, it just gone and

(01:36:37):
you went to something else.
But like when you leave it, allow it the space to really share, that's where everything's
just like, okay, this came up and now I need to reinvent myself again.
I don't think that's the right word, but like it's something shifted so deeply intrinsically
in you, in your body that the way you used to do cannot be the way tomorrow.

(01:37:01):
I don't know if that makes any sense.
No, I love it.
So where can people find and follow that invitation that you've just given?
So you can now I'm mostly active on Instagram and I'm starting to build up my library on
YouTube as well.

(01:37:22):
Do weekly podcasts, personal podcasts.
It's like lately has been around like wealth, frequency and leadership as well.
There's two part that part of the somatic and the rewiring that I would really link
to with that.
That would be the two places you can find me and also, yeah, that would be the two places
you can find me actually not in my newsletter.

(01:37:44):
It's where I get more intimate.
I share things on my newsletter that I don't share anywhere else.
And they're like, yeah, very deep, deep things that I'm like, woof.
It's just a very intimate place that I love to talk.
So yeah, on my newsletter as well.
Where can people find your newsletter?
So you can go to sendfox.com slash Lucie Al.

(01:38:07):
So it's Lucie, the French way.
So I E N A L and yeah, you can just join the newsletter at any given moment.
Okay.
And I'll put that link in the caption or the show notes.
This is so great that and thank you so much.
And we're going to stop the recording and we're going to keep talking.

(01:38:29):
Let's do this.
Thank you very much.

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