June 19, 2025 • 39 mins
In this episode of The Optimal Aging Podcast, Jay Croft sits down with Alex McBrairty, a fitness coach whose personal transformation—losing nearly 100 pounds as a teen—launched a lifelong journey into behavior change, motivation, and the psychology of fitness.
Alex shares how his struggle with self-esteem and identity led him to pursue a degree in psychology, which now underpins his coaching philosophy. You'll learn how he uses personality testing to meet clients where they are, especially those over 50 who may feel intimidated by change or doubt their ability to improve.
Whether you're a fitness or wellness professional or someone navigating your own health journey later in life, this episode is filled with actionable insights. Alex explains how to help clients rewrite their internal stories, embrace behavior change at any age, and take manageable steps toward better health—without falling into the all-or-nothing trap.
👤 Guest: Alex McBrairty
Bio: Alex McBrairty is a personal trainer and psychology enthusiast who specializes in helping clients achieve lasting health transformations by combining mindset work with fitness strategy. His own journey of losing 100 pounds as a teenager deeply informs his coaching approach.
Links:
- Substack Newsletter: https://ateamfit.substack.com
🧠 Topics Covered
Rewriting Your Health Story
- How Alex transformed from an overweight teen to a fitness coach
- The role of self-perception in sustaining behavior change
The Psychology of Motivation
- Why external motivators can be powerful starting points
- Understanding the deeper "why" behind lasting change
Using the Big Five Personality Traits
- How to tailor coaching using the OCEAN model
- Adapting communication styles for different personality types
Coaching Over-50 Clients
- Why older adults often have more urgency—and more doubts
- Strategies for simplifying nutrition and encouraging progress
🎤 Host: Jay Croft
Helping fitness professionals connect with people over 50 who want to stay healthy and engaged.
🌐 Podcast Website: https://primefitcontent.com
📬 Contact: jay@primefitcontent.com
📢 Calls to Action:
👍 Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts
📬 Subscribe to the email list – https://primefitcontent.com
📱 Follow on Instagram – @primefitcontent
🫶 Loved this episode? Share it with a friend or tag us on socials using #OptimalAgingPodcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
so it's interesting because for years I struggled
with that identity shift and now, like I'm fully embraced this
version of me, like there's very, there's sort of very little
really, if any, remnant of thatold version of me, which is what
I was kind of alluding toearlier, where I don't even
recognize or remember what itwas like to be that person in a
(00:31):
lot of ways a lot of people talkabout the idea of making a big
transformation.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, my guest today actually made a big
transformation way back when hewas just 17 years old, and from
that profound and lasting changehe's built a career in fitness
and nutrition.
He shares his experiences withothers and the expertise that
he's acquired since then andhelps them live better,
(01:02):
healthier lives as well, usingpsychology and fitness to help
us clients make these importantchanges.
You know, we often wonder whyis it so hard for people to
change the way they eat or tostart exercising regularly, or
to just stop doing the thingsthat are bad for them and start
doing the things that are goodfor them, right?
How much time do we all spendthinking about this, talking
(01:24):
about it with our clients or ourfriends or in family, or even
with ourselves?
There's a lot of psychologybehind all of that.
It's fascinating, and AlexMcBreaty, who's now in his early
30s, helps me unpack a lot ofthat and shares his super
compelling story of how he losta hundred pounds.
Let me say that again, he lost100 pounds.
(01:47):
That was more than 15 years agoand the changes have been
permanent and profound.
Alex, in this conversation,shares a lot of practical
insight to help you, help yourclients and to inform your
communications and shape yourstory, how you present yourself
(02:08):
to really stand out in thisever-increasing lose weight now
universe.
I enjoyed Alex's insights andhis energy and I know you will,
too, enjoy the conversation.
All right, alex Hi, how are you?
Nice to see you.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I'm doing fantastic.
It's amazing, jay.
I appreciate you will, too,enjoy the conversation.
All right, alex, hi, how areyou Nice to see you?
I'm doing fantastic.
It's amazing, jay.
I appreciate you having me.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, I appreciate you being here.
It's nice to meet you.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
We were introduced by a mutual friend and I'm glad he
made that acquaintanceAbsolutely, and we've started
off great so far, so I'm lookingforward to the rest of this
conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, yeah, me too.
I wanted to have you on becauseI like to talk about nutrition
for my audience of gym ownersand fitness professionals and
hear about how you approach thatand how you can help people,
how we all can help people opentheir minds a little, take one
little step in the rightdirection and maybe just stop
eating those hostess products.
Maybe that could be just onething.
If one person stops eatingTwinkies today, then we'll be in
(03:31):
good shape.
Alex, before we dive into allof that, please tell us your
story and your background andhow you got here to be with us
today.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
In 25 words or less Go.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
In 25 words or less.
It was totally accidental,stemming from a personal
transformation where I lostnearly 100 pounds as a teenager.
That led to my personal love offitness.
Went to university college, gotmy bachelor's in psychology,
specifically in mindset andmotivation, which gave me a lot
of cool experiences withresearch and the behind the
scenes of behavior change.
(04:04):
Graduated with no plan for whatto do with my future, stumbled
into personal training andfitness coaching as an accident,
at the suggestion of a friendwho saw that I spent all my time
in the gym anyways, might aswell get paid for it.
Tried it, fell in love, startedmy business a year later and 12
years later, here we are.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Here we are.
I love it.
I want to go back a little bit,if we can, to that, that
transformation of yours.
Yeah absolutely, because it's.
It's a showstopper, it's aheadline, it's major.
You lost 100 pounds, yeah, okay, and, and you did that in
adolescence.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yep, I was about 17.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
That's a lot of behavior change, that's a lot of
psychology going in there.
So, without getting too muchinto your private business, what
sparked that?
What made you, at such a youngage, make such a huge, long
lasting, positive change?
Speaker 1 (05:07):
positive change.
You know, I think it was, atleast in part, just reaching a
maturity level where, you know,all of my friends were starting
to apply and get accepted intocolleges and I didn't have any
college plans.
I was sort of a mediocre student, talented and smart, but didn't
really commit myself to much,didn't try very hard, didn't
have the self-esteem to sort ofput myself out there.
And so I saw all of my friendsgetting ready to sort of step
into their future as adults.
(05:28):
And I remember having thisepiphany, you know, being
unhappy, having low self-esteemwith, with my health, just
realizing that if I didn't makea change then as I entered my
adult life it would only be moreof the same.
As I entered my adult life itwould only be more of the same.
(05:49):
And that terrified me and Ithink that's what ultimately
cause I had tried, you know,throughout my childhood I was
overweight pretty much my entirememorable life tried various
diets and, you know, with thehelp of doctors and programs and
whatever, and variable degreesof success, always short-lived,
and something about again thatepiphany of not wanting the rest
(06:11):
of my life to be just gettingworse and worse and more into
that sort of deep hole of lowself-esteem sparked something in
me that we just got after it.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
How did you do it?
We just got after it.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
How did you do it?
So one of the things we have torecognize is, as a 17-year-old
graduating high school was a lotof privilege, of time and lack
of responsibility.
So at the time I had school, myresponsibilities were school.
I had a part-time job that Idid afterwards, and the gym.
Those were the only things thatI dedicated my time to.
So it was, admittedly, a littlebit of extreme.
I would again.
(06:47):
Something you can get away withwith the body of a 17 year old
and the joints of a teenager isI would go to school.
I'd get out early because I gotcredit for my job, so I could
leave a few hours early.
If I had work, I'd go to workin the evenings.
If not, I'd go straight to thegym.
I'd run, you know, two or threemiles around an indoor track,
come home, do homework.
(07:08):
If I didn't go off to work, Iwould actually go, and I was
involved in a little bit of judoat the time, a form of martial
arts.
So I would go training therefor one or two hours in the
evenings and then occasionally,I would go back to the gym and
lift for another hour thereafter.
So two or three times a daypretty much every day.
I was just hammering, workingout.
The interesting thing was thefirst three months of that.
(07:28):
Doing that every day, I think Ilost a total of five pounds
over those three months, which,for that level of effort, is
atrocious return on time andeffort, because I wasn't paying
attention to what I was eating.
I still ate the same and Ithought that the working out
would solve all the problems.
Once I realized that and Istarted to change my nutrition
(07:52):
around and improve it a littlebit, that's when the serious
change started happening.
And then, 15 months later, Iwas down 100 pounds.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Okay.
So let's unpack that from thepsychological point of view,
because it's probably not anaccident that you went ahead and
majored in psychology, right?
So?
So not at all.
Something led you to say, hey,man, I'm doing something that's
not working.
What the heck is wrong here?
How can I fix this process?
Then you found the answer andyou did it, which is amazing.
(08:23):
So how did you find this, thekey psychologically to do all of
that?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
You know it's.
This leads into another aspectof my journey which I think is
really important and sort of nowwith talk of motivation and
mindset and stuff a little bitoverlooked which is external
motivation, and I'll talk aboutwhat I'm alluding to here in a
moment.
But you know all the variousprograms that I did, because I
did doctor led programs as a kidtrying to lose weight, I did
(08:52):
doctor led programs.
I worked with various trainers.
My parents were always sort ofsupportive for me trying to get
healthy, as one might imagine,and so I did have the
understanding that there weretwo pieces to this equation
there was exercise and there wasnutrition.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
The nutrition changes were just the not fun ones.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I didn't want to make those changes.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
So that's why I started with the exercise and,
you know, sort of as a as astill uninformed teenager, I
assumed that if I worked outenough, that would solve the
problem, that would do it.
And so it wasn't until I had togo through that process of
putting in so much effort anddoing so much work and
sacrificing so much and notgetting the results that I
(09:34):
wanted that sort of the realityset in that, okay, you can't
just cheat this equation by justfocusing on one part right,
anything multiplied by zero isstill zero.
We got to do some changes tothe, to the nutrition side, and
so that's when I just sort ofgrit my teeth and, and you know,
succumb to the reality that allright, we gotta we gotta stop
(09:56):
going out to the fast food sooften.
We got to stop just eatingwhatever we want whenever we
want, which was the otherproblem.
Because I had a part-time jobas a teenager, I had a lot of
expendable income for that ageand so I could spend it on food
whenever I wanted.
I could go and, you know, haveaccess to those things as many
adults do now, and so it was.
It was that sort of realization.
(10:17):
But to the point about theexternal motivation is one of my
motivating factors for gettingin shape, which has sort of been
true my entire life is.
At the time I had gotten myfirst girlfriend as a
17-year-old and I rememberthinking expressly that when I
got into that relationship thatI wanted to be the person that
(10:40):
she could show off to herfriends.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
And be proud of, and internally I didn't think I was
that person.
So I think that is a keyelement of I wasn't just doing
it because I wanted to behappier and healthier, I was
doing it for her too.
And so when I did all thisexercise, didn't focus on the
nutrition, didn't see theresults results whereas a lot of
(11:04):
times in the past I would belike, well, this doesn't work,
I'm just gonna stop, I'm gonnaget discouraged and do it.
That no longer became an option, because then it would have
also been letting somebody elsedown.
You know we are masterrationalizers.
We can justify anything in ourbrains if we try hard enough.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
And so that external motivation, that external factor
prevented me from being able torationalize it away, gotcha and
that sort of, led me down thepath of okay, this isn't working
, so what will work?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Okay, I'm so impressed that a 17-year year
old had the awareness courage todo all of that.
You know I could barely dolaundry, you know, when I was 17
.
So good for you.
Listen, jay.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
I got.
I got to preface it by sayingthis is all.
You know the words I'm usingand the way I'm describing.
It's in hindsight of 17 yearsof experience, so I'm sure it
wasn't this glorious at the time.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Well, but you got a hell of a story out of it that.
I did that's important and I'mbeing a smartass when I say that
, but it's also serious.
It's also true because yourstory has helped you, help other
people in your business, helpedyou, helped other people in
(12:28):
your business.
So I'm always telling, tellingmy folks how important it is to
know their own story and thevalue of it.
We often think that, oh, it'sjust my story, it's nobody cares
who you know.
Or we have the oppositeapproach and think that every
that the wrong things about usare fascinating how many
certifications I have and youknow what my personal best is on
bench or whatever and likenobody cares.
You have to relate your storyso that they can see something
(12:50):
in themselves.
Right?
So how, how?
How did you discover thatyourself?
Obviously you have discoveredit and you have used that story.
Maybe you're tired of it.
Maybe you go away from it andcome back to it.
Tell me about your relationshipwith that story.
Hey, are you a fitnessprofessional trying to grow your
(13:11):
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We're talking about millions ofpeople who are a little older
than the typical market that thefitness industry usually
pursues.
They have more money, more timeand better motivation to make
(13:34):
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(13:54):
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Back to the show.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
You know that's a great question and because
you're right, when I firstbecame a trainer, shortly after
college, I leveraged that storyheavily in all of my marketing
because I was passionate aboutit.
And I was passionate, you know,the life that I had then, the
life that I have now, is outsideof the realm of what I ever
thought was possible in terms ofthe things I've been able to do
(14:26):
and experience and who I amtoday.
And that's only become more trueas time has gone on.
And that's only become moretrue as time has gone on.
And so feeling that shift inthe trajectory of my life was so
powerful that I wanted to shareit with everyone.
That's where I got intocoaching.
I wanted to be able to createthat experience in others, no
matter when they started.
And over time, as my identitygot further away the sort of
(14:52):
after Alex became further andfurther distanced from the
before Alex I stopped talkingabout that story because it
didn't seem as relevant for meanymore.
Those parts of me that stuckaround were becoming more and
more muted and I just didn't seemyself as that person and it
felt almost disingenuine toleverage that story, because I
(15:17):
didn't see myself as that personand it felt almost disingenuine
to leverage that story becauseit just I didn't recognize the
person in those photos anymore.
It'd be like using some randompersons before photos for your
program and it's interestingbecause I had, you know I've
since started to sort ofreconnect with that
transformation story, but itcame at the tail end of an
(15:37):
epiphany, which is a moment ofself-reflection that I had a
couple of years ago, which isthe person that I am today, and
sort of the person that Icontinue to strive to become in
my personal life, is the exactperson that I would have given
anything to trade places withwhen I was the old Alex.
So sort of the entire thesis ofmy adulthood has been becoming
(15:59):
the person that I would havewanted to be back then, because
I remember as that overweight,low self-esteem, struggling
teenager literally havingmoments where I would have given
anything to trade places withcertain people that I thought
had everything that I wantedRight, and that realization that
I am in a process of becomingthat version that younger me
(16:23):
would have admired and wouldhave wanted to strive to be like
is sort of shifted.
The framework with which I viewthe work that I do with all of
the clients that I work withAgain, whatever age they're
starting at of, how do we helpthem embrace the version of them
that they know is inside thatthey want to be?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yes, and that segues beautifully to what I want to
talk about, which is how we?
The reason I wanted you to getinto your story in so much
detail is not just because it'sa great story, but because it's
kind of at the heart of what wedo.
(17:05):
What health and fitnessprofessionals try to do for
their clients is help thembecome the person that they want
to be.
Clients is help them become theperson that they want to be,
whatever that might mean forthat person.
And so how do you use all ofthat your experiences, and then
also your experiences ofwatching people react to you as
these two sort of two differentpeople almost?
(17:26):
How do you apply all of that toyour clients to help them
understand what's going on intheir head that they might not
even be aware of, that's drivingtheir behavior?
How do you encourage them to beopen to change, and then not
just being open to it, but howto do it?
How do you actually make change?
(17:48):
I mean, it's a big, loadedquestion.
Unpack it as you as you see fit, but basically I want to make a
connection between the lifestory you just told us and the
work that we do.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah.
So I'm going to start with thisin the beginning by sharing
another interesting realizationI had as I got maybe a few years
into my coaching career career,as you might imagine, you know,
my now entire life revolvingaround fitness, professionally
and personally, continuing to,you know, run races and do these
athletic events and get inbetter shape and get stronger
(18:21):
and get more PRs the people thatI was trying to connect to
before Alex's, because I was sofar removed from that.
I realized that the way that Iwas sharing my story and who I
was then almost made it feelimpossible for people right,
this is one of the core conceptswhen we talk about developing
(18:43):
self-confidence and a belief inourselves to be successful
Self-efficacy.
There's four components, one ofwhich is vicarious experience,
which is being able to seepeople who we can relate to
accomplish the things that wewant to accomplish, because that
instills a belief in us that wecan do it too.
And I failed at leveraging thatbecause I was no longer
(19:03):
relatable to the people that Iwas talking to, and so the help
I was trying to give, the adviceI was providing, the motivation
I wanted to instill in people,was falling flat because I was
written off as the anomaly, theexception.
I'm never going to be thatperson, I'm never going to
achieve those type of goals.
(19:23):
And so I had to get very clearon and this plays into sort of
the behavior change process is,I think, a lot of times because
I made the mistake of jumpingright to the optimal changes,
the things that are going to getthe best results, and what we
fail to realize is all of thebehaviors that have led a person
to be where they are, in theirhealth are years in the making,
(19:50):
habitually designed routinesthat are often being performed
unconsciously, and we're askingthem to change all of it
overnight.
And not only is there resistancementally because now we're
asking them to change theiridentity overnight as well as a
part of that but we're askingthem to change things they don't
(20:11):
even know they're having aproblem with, necessarily.
And so a big part to start istrying to figure out where they
are, so we can meet them thereand then take them on the
journey gradually to make thesechanges in a way that is not
overwhelming, in a way thatseems reasonable, that seems
realistic for them, they can beconfident in, to stand the best
(20:34):
chance of actually making thosechanges.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I like that.
We're done.
That was great.
No, I'm kidding, of course.
You were telling me earlierabout the big five inventory.
Does that relate to what youwere just describing?
A?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
hundred percent.
So that's the process we use tofigure out where people are and
meet them there.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Okay, tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
So the big five inventory is a personality test
that measures five.
It measures on a spectrum, eachof these five variables of the
continuum.
It measures where they fall onfive different attributes and
you can remember it easily bythe acronym OCEAN.
And before I explain what eachof those five are, the thing
about the big five and why we'vechosen that one, is there are a
(21:21):
number of different personalityassessments out there.
One of the challenges, ofcourse, is very few of them have
great predictive power, whichbasically means whatever results
you get are actually accuratelypredicting how you're going to
behave, means whatever resultsyou get are actually accurately
predicting how you're going tobehave.
And that's a problem because ifit doesn't actually predict
behavior accurately, it's notreally useful for us to leverage
(21:41):
in behavior change.
The big five inventory has amuch higher predictive power, so
it's much more accurate inpredicting that behavior, which
is why we leverage it.
But it measures your level onfive different attributes.
But it measures your level onfive different attributes
Acronym OCEAN the first beingopenness.
How open and receptive are weto new experiences?
Are we adventurous?
Do we like to try new things,new restaurants, new activities?
(22:04):
Do we just like to explore?
Or are we low in openness?
Do we prefer the things thatwe're comfortable with?
Do we like to do the sameactivities, the same hobbies,
talk to the same people, go tothe same restaurants?
Stay within our bubble ofcomfort?
So that's the first.
The second is conscientiousness, which a good way to think
(22:28):
about this is how much do welike routine?
We're high in conscientiousness.
We really like our routines.
We like everything laid out andplanned ahead of time Right.
Another way to think about thismore colloquially is like type
a, type B personality.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Low consciousness they're going to be prefer more
spontaneity.
Someone that measures low inthis attribute is likely going
to be a little bit resistant tolike a super rigid, structured
plan, because they feel likestructure robs them of their
freedom.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
And when we know that there's ways we can work around
it, which we'll talk about herein a moment.
The third attribute isextroversion, the opposite of
which is introversion.
So low extroversion and beingintroverted and this is not
necessarily a product of shynessor not, which I think is often
confused, but more so how we getour energy.
What fills up our cup?
(23:21):
Extroverted individuals, peoplewho are high in extroversion
get their energy being aroundpeople.
My girlfriend and I laughedoften about this because
whenever we're in the car, justthe two of us I'm introverted,
she's extroverted.
I'm totally fine sitting insilence.
I can drive an hour and not saya word with someone else in the
(23:43):
car with me.
She needs to talk the wholetime.
That there's silence.
It's no good, right.
So we have to compromise onthat.
But this is a good example ofthe difference between these.
But as related to that in thecoaching context is the
communication preferences ofsomeone.
So in our program, how oftenwe're you know whether it's in
(24:06):
person or online we do a lot ofonline coaching how frequently
we're communicating with people.
If someone's extroverted, it'seasier for us to connect with
them more often throughout theweek to make sure everything's
going well.
They're always happy to receivethose.
They'll always respond timely.
Someone who's introverted,which we learn the hard way.
If we overwhelm them with toofrequent of communication, they
(24:27):
shut down and they feeloverwhelmed.
So that plays a big role.
The fourth attribute isagreeableness.
So this is sort of howconflict-avoidant are people,
how skeptical are people.
Someone who's high inagreeableness who might sign on
for your program are just goingto listen to everything you say.
(24:49):
They're going to agree toeverything.
They're just going to soak itall in.
They're going to be a sponge.
Someone who's low onagreeableness is going to be a
little bit more skeptical.
They might ask more questionswhy are we doing certain things?
Why are you giving me thisadvice?
Why do I need to follow thisnutrition advice?
None of those are bad, but caninfluence how we approach those
(25:12):
questions.
And then the last of the fiveattributes neuroticism, is
essentially just how likely arethey to worry about things
internally?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Right.
Someone who is low neuroticismsay their goal is to lose 10
pounds and gain a little bit ofstrength.
If they're low neurotic andthey do a progress check and
they realize they've lost half apound that week, but oh sweet,
all right, let's.
What tweaks do I need to maketo expedite that?
Or that's pretty good, I'mstill making progress.
(25:43):
No, no worries.
Someone who's high inneuroticism and they see they've
only lost half a pound?
I can be like Alex.
Why is this not more I'm doing?
Speaker 2 (25:53):
everything.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
What are we going to do?
Right, right.
And so when we understand wherepeople fall on these attributes
high, low or somewhere inbetween we can tailor not just
the advice that we give and howwe structure the program, but
how we deliver it to them in away that meets them where they
(26:14):
are now, because there arecertain combinations of these
attributes that can prove alittle bit more challenging.
A good example of this someonewho is low extroversion, so
they're introverted.
High in agreeableness, sothey're not very conflict
avoidant, and high inneuroticism, is the person who,
(26:36):
when you check on them, is goingto tell you everything's okay.
They're not going to communicatevery often and they're going to
be worried the entire time, andso when we measure these which
we do by creating a expeditedintake process, a survey that we
include in our questionnaireswhen people join us we know to
watch out for that.
(26:56):
We know to approach that in avery particular way that elicits
feedback from them, that makesthem feel more comfortable to
share how they're feeling, sothat they're not silently
suffering behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Got it.
Now I want to ask you how doesall this apply differently If it
is different at all, I don'tknow.
Maybe it's not, or how canpeople in nutrition and fitness
help their clients who are alittle bit older, who are 50, 60
(27:35):
, 70 and above, who maybe havetheir own particular issues with
nutrition?
They don't get enough protein,or they eat too much crap, or
they go through thedrive-through at the fast food
too often, or whatever.
I mean, it's just like everyone.
They've got their own issueswith nutrition, although of
(27:55):
course, there are some that aremore pronounced with people who
are older.
I don't want to put adefinition on something if it's
not there, but are there someparticular lessons here for the
listeners who work primarilywith older people or who are
trying to communicate primarilywith older people?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
So the way the Big Five inventory influence how you
can deal with the programdoesn't change very much for the
older population of people, butwhat does change, as you well
know, is how some of thesethings manifest themselves and
the stories that these peoplemight be telling themselves.
So I'll share from my personalexperience.
(28:35):
The thing I love about thepopulation of people over 50 is
they are some of the mostmotivated individuals when it
comes to their health that I'veworked with, because oftentimes
they are seeing their elderlyparents starting to suffer
medically and they want to avoidthat.
In themselves, they see thereal urgency of it.
(28:58):
Sometimes they're starting tostruggle with their own health,
depending on where they're at intheir fitness journey, and so,
unlike younger populations ofpeople who know theoretically
that they're going to be betteroff if they focus on their
health now, are not reallypaying the price of that to the
same degree.
Yet they're still able to putoff that pain into the future.
(29:19):
This older population, theymight already be dealing with it
.
Those problems are at their gate, at their front door, and so
there's a real urgency to makethese changes and, as a result,
are likely to feel the benefitsfaster and more profoundly
because they can see thedifference, and so that is
(29:39):
something that I love about thispopulation, is something that I
love about this population howwe sort of meet them where they
are is really the difference isthe stories they're telling
themselves.
Because, again, from my personalexperience in working with
these populations, I've heardstories of skepticism in their
own ability to succeed becauseof their age, because of maybe
they've never, maybe I haveworking with a client who's 65
(30:03):
and has never been involved in afitness, a structured fitness
program her entire life andthinks it's too late to start,
and so those are challenges tobe overcome.
But in applying thesepersonality traits and how we
deliver it to match theirpersonality type, what that
(30:23):
allows us to do, do again, allof this comes back to the theme
of meeting people where they arein their journey, both
physically and mentally, so thatwe can build the confidence and
the competency so that they canstart to shift some of those
stories shift.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Some of those stories sounds a lot like reverse
behavior change and personalitytraits in the rear view mirror,
right Like well, this happenedwhen I was such and such age,
and now I'm going to look at ita little bit differently in a
way that serves me now.
Is that what we're getting at?
Or maybe not, but it stillsounds like a good idea if you
(31:03):
can manage it.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Well, so our I mean, you're absolutely right and
you're stumbling on somethingimportant which is our entire
reality is dictated by stories.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
So you know, you know this when we're going through
the world, we are experiencingvarious stimulus sight, sounds,
taste, smells, touch.
That's just raw data.
That's like looking at an Excelspreadsheet with a bunch of
numbers and we have no contextfor what the numbers mean.
It doesn't mean anything to us,and so, as we're going through
the world, these sensations andthe stimulus doesn't actually
(31:32):
mean anything until we interpretthat data, we give it context,
and the way our brain does thatis by telling stories.
I touched a hot stove and ithurts.
What stories?
I touch the hot stove and ithurts.
What does that mean?
It means things that are hotcause pain.
I shouldn't do that again.
Right, and so one of the uniquechallenges of this older
(31:53):
population when it comes tohealth behavior change is
oftentimes the stories they'rewriting about their identity
around fitness.
Whether they've been active ornot, overcoming some of the very
real health and medical issuesthey might be starting to deal
with or have been dealing with,is they've had a story that
(32:16):
they've been writing aboutthemselves and their world for
however long, and so everychange that we're trying to make
as a health practitioner,trying to improve their
nutrition, trying to get them tomove more.
Whatever the case is is, we areessentially, fundamentally,
trying to inspire them to writea different story, which is what
I meant when I said that it'snot.
(32:38):
Oh, I'm 65 and I've neverexercised.
I'm not going to be good at itto.
Okay, what can I do?
What am I capable of?
What skills can I build aroundmovement?
And so the personality traitsand how we deliver it again is
(32:58):
part of that storytransformation, but in a way
that allows it to feel moremanageable to start making the
changes.
So that because, again, thestories are from a product of
our experience If we believethat we're not going to be
successful at a nutrition changeprogram, I'm not going to be
(33:21):
able to change my eating, I'mnot going to be able to eat more
protein, I don't like thesefoods.
X, y, z.
If we can approach those changesin a way that agrees with them
not ask someone who's lowopenness.
We're picking foods theyalready love, so we're not
asking them to try anything new,someone who prefers their
spontaneity.
We're not giving them a rigidmeal plan.
(33:43):
We're just suggesting somechanges and giving them the
freedom to decide how they makethose changes, when we do this
in a way that's more agreeablefor them to start implementing,
more realistic for them and theystart to see themselves succeed
.
They start to see themselvesmake the changes.
(34:03):
Suddenly that story that they'renot going to be able to change
their eating is being challenged.
Not by what we're telling thembecause we can tell people they
can do this all day long doesn'tmean they don't believe it but
through their own actions andtheir own experiences.
They're seeing that they'reeating differently in these ways
when previously they neverthought they could.
And and now that causes them toquestion well, was I correct
(34:31):
that I'm no good at this?
And then that plants the seedto eventually being good at it
and making the changes andgetting the benefits.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Without being too simplistic about it, can we
break all this down to maybethree points?
That your average nutritionistor fitness provider out there
trying to help his clients eatbetter, lacking your experience
or your expertise, how can theyapproach this in a way that they
can manage?
(34:58):
I own a gym.
I have some nutritioncounseling for my clients.
I want to help them succeed,but I don't have your wealth of
knowledge.
What can I do to help them?
Speaker 1 (35:11):
If I were going to simplify it in the most way
possible, it would be identifywhat their fears are.
Fears are, have them figure outwhat small changes feel
manageable so we're notdictating what that is they are
(35:33):
and then, when they startsucceeding at those changes,
asking them whether the originalfears are still true, okay,
basically asking them to rewrite.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Still true, okay.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Basically asking them to rewrite their story.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah, I like that.
That's something that a laymanI can understand.
I got you, I'm with you on that.
I can see how that would behelpful to someone, okay.
So anything else about thisparticularly slightly older
demographic that is relevantregarding your work in nutrition
or also perhaps in fitness, andhow you do outreach to them,
(36:13):
how you communicate with themthat you find oh, I noticed that
people this tends to workbetter, or I won't make that
mistake again Any kind ofpractical lesson you've learned,
or I won't make that mistakeagain Any kind of practical
lesson you've learned.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I think you know it's easy.
I think, about the youngerpopulations that I work with
adjacent to this and when itcomes to nutrition changes and
tracking, we're food logs andapps and all these other tools
that we use, and I find, with alot of my older population
individuals, some of them arevery tech savvy more so than me
(36:47):
in many ways but, by and large,keeping things as simple as
possible, just as fundamental,doing less of like get out your
food scale and weigh this andweigh that and do all that to.
Okay, let's just what are youdoing now and how can we, you
know, add a little bit of extraprotein, or how can we make this
(37:08):
portion size a little smaller,or how can we?
As you said earlier,simplifying things as much as
possible is, by and large,incredibly beneficial.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Yeah, yeah, I like that.
I think that so many times it'soverwhelming to people of any
age to say, oh, I can't everhave fun again.
I can never drink a beer again,I can never eat a slice of
pizza again.
I have to live at the gym Likeno, you don't just stop eating
so much garbage and get off thecouch a few times a week.
(37:44):
That's all you got to do tostart right.
Exactly, it's like we have thisall or nothing idea in our
heads about everything and it'sjust not useful.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Right, you're absolutely right.
The all or nothing mindset thatyou alluded to is if we're not
perfect, it's not worth it.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
It's completely wrong .
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, all right.
Well, we've got to change someminds here.
We've got our work cut out forus, alex, and I want you to tell
the folks listening how theycan reach you, where they can go
to find out more, to be intouch if they'd like to be.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Absolutely Well, the best place to find me.
You know I have a newsletterthat I've published multiple
times a week where I talk aboutthis intersection of fitness and
psychology.
So if you're interested in themindset stuff and how to
leverage that a little bit more,both for yourself, for your
clients or whatever the case is,you can find that that's on my
sub stack.
A team fit a t e a mI-T dotsubsec dot com.
(38:42):
Free to subscribe.
Again, I publish multiple timesa week.
It's probably the best place toget in touch and get some
additional resources.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I want you to spell that again, please.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yeah, a-t.
As in Tom, e-a-m.
As in Mike.
I-t.
As in Tom Dot subsec dot com.
Okay, got it.
I T as in Tom that subseccom.
Okay, got it.
18 fit.
Oh, I spelled that wrong.
F as in Frank, 18 fit.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yeah, a team fit a team like Mr T.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yes A team like Mr T.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
All right, alex, it's been a pleasure.
My my mind has been open insome some very fresh and helpful
ways, and helpful is the keyhere.
Because it's been a pleasure,my mind has been opened in some
very fresh and helpful ways, andhelpful is the key here,
because it's so easy to get lostin the weeds when we're talking
about this stuff, and it's notalways the most helpful.
So I want to thank you forjoining me today.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Jay, it's been amazing.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
All right, have a good one.
so it's interesting because for years I struggled
with that identity shift and now, like I'm fully embraced this
version of me, like there's very, there's sort of very little
really, if any, remnant of thatold version of me, which is what
I was kind of alluding toearlier, where I don't even
recognize or remember what itwas like to be that person in a
(00:31):
lot of ways a lot of people talkabout the idea of making a big
transformation.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, my guest today actually made a big
transformation way back when hewas just 17 years old, and from
that profound and lasting changehe's built a career in fitness
and nutrition.
He shares his experiences withothers and the expertise that
he's acquired since then andhelps them live better,
(01:02):
healthier lives as well, usingpsychology and fitness to help
us clients make these importantchanges.
You know, we often wonder whyis it so hard for people to
change the way they eat or tostart exercising regularly, or
to just stop doing the thingsthat are bad for them and start
doing the things that are goodfor them, right?
How much time do we all spendthinking about this, talking
(01:24):
about it with our clients or ourfriends or in family, or even
with ourselves?
There's a lot of psychologybehind all of that.
It's fascinating, and AlexMcBreaty, who's now in his early
30s, helps me unpack a lot ofthat and shares his super
compelling story of how he losta hundred pounds.
Let me say that again, he lost100 pounds.
(01:47):
That was more than 15 years agoand the changes have been
permanent and profound.
Alex, in this conversation,shares a lot of practical
insight to help you, help yourclients and to inform your
communications and shape yourstory, how you present yourself
(02:08):
to really stand out in thisever-increasing lose weight now
universe.
I enjoyed Alex's insights andhis energy and I know you will,
too, enjoy the conversation.
All right, alex Hi, how are you?
Nice to see you.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I'm doing fantastic.
It's amazing, jay.
I appreciate you will, too,enjoy the conversation.
All right, alex, hi, how areyou Nice to see you?
I'm doing fantastic.
It's amazing, jay.
I appreciate you having me.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, I appreciate you being here.
It's nice to meet you.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
We were introduced by a mutual friend and I'm glad he
made that acquaintanceAbsolutely, and we've started
off great so far, so I'm lookingforward to the rest of this
conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, yeah, me too.
I wanted to have you on becauseI like to talk about nutrition
for my audience of gym ownersand fitness professionals and
hear about how you approach thatand how you can help people,
how we all can help people opentheir minds a little, take one
little step in the rightdirection and maybe just stop
eating those hostess products.
Maybe that could be just onething.
If one person stops eatingTwinkies today, then we'll be in
(03:31):
good shape.
Alex, before we dive into allof that, please tell us your
story and your background andhow you got here to be with us
today.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
In 25 words or less Go.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
In 25 words or less.
It was totally accidental,stemming from a personal
transformation where I lostnearly 100 pounds as a teenager.
That led to my personal love offitness.
Went to university college, gotmy bachelor's in psychology,
specifically in mindset andmotivation, which gave me a lot
of cool experiences withresearch and the behind the
scenes of behavior change.
(04:04):
Graduated with no plan for whatto do with my future, stumbled
into personal training andfitness coaching as an accident,
at the suggestion of a friendwho saw that I spent all my time
in the gym anyways, might aswell get paid for it.
Tried it, fell in love, startedmy business a year later and 12
years later, here we are.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Here we are.
I love it.
I want to go back a little bit,if we can, to that, that
transformation of yours.
Yeah absolutely, because it's.
It's a showstopper, it's aheadline, it's major.
You lost 100 pounds, yeah, okay, and, and you did that in
adolescence.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yep, I was about 17.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
That's a lot of behavior change, that's a lot of
psychology going in there.
So, without getting too muchinto your private business, what
sparked that?
What made you, at such a youngage, make such a huge, long
lasting, positive change?
Speaker 1 (05:07):
positive change.
You know, I think it was, atleast in part, just reaching a
maturity level where, you know,all of my friends were starting
to apply and get accepted intocolleges and I didn't have any
college plans.
I was sort of a mediocre student, talented and smart, but didn't
really commit myself to much,didn't try very hard, didn't
have the self-esteem to sort ofput myself out there.
And so I saw all of my friendsgetting ready to sort of step
into their future as adults.
(05:28):
And I remember having thisepiphany, you know, being
unhappy, having low self-esteemwith, with my health, just
realizing that if I didn't makea change then as I entered my
adult life it would only be moreof the same.
As I entered my adult life itwould only be more of the same.
(05:49):
And that terrified me and Ithink that's what ultimately
cause I had tried, you know,throughout my childhood I was
overweight pretty much my entirememorable life tried various
diets and, you know, with thehelp of doctors and programs and
whatever, and variable degreesof success, always short-lived,
and something about again thatepiphany of not wanting the rest
(06:11):
of my life to be just gettingworse and worse and more into
that sort of deep hole of lowself-esteem sparked something in
me that we just got after it.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
How did you do it?
We just got after it.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
How did you do it?
So one of the things we have torecognize is, as a 17-year-old
graduating high school was a lotof privilege, of time and lack
of responsibility.
So at the time I had school, myresponsibilities were school.
I had a part-time job that Idid afterwards, and the gym.
Those were the only things thatI dedicated my time to.
So it was, admittedly, a littlebit of extreme.
I would again.
(06:47):
Something you can get away withwith the body of a 17 year old
and the joints of a teenager isI would go to school.
I'd get out early because I gotcredit for my job, so I could
leave a few hours early.
If I had work, I'd go to workin the evenings.
If not, I'd go straight to thegym.
I'd run, you know, two or threemiles around an indoor track,
come home, do homework.
(07:08):
If I didn't go off to work, Iwould actually go, and I was
involved in a little bit of judoat the time, a form of martial
arts.
So I would go training therefor one or two hours in the
evenings and then occasionally,I would go back to the gym and
lift for another hour thereafter.
So two or three times a daypretty much every day.
I was just hammering, workingout.
The interesting thing was thefirst three months of that.
(07:28):
Doing that every day, I think Ilost a total of five pounds
over those three months, which,for that level of effort, is
atrocious return on time andeffort, because I wasn't paying
attention to what I was eating.
I still ate the same and Ithought that the working out
would solve all the problems.
Once I realized that and Istarted to change my nutrition
(07:52):
around and improve it a littlebit, that's when the serious
change started happening.
And then, 15 months later, Iwas down 100 pounds.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Okay.
So let's unpack that from thepsychological point of view,
because it's probably not anaccident that you went ahead and
majored in psychology, right?
So?
So not at all.
Something led you to say, hey,man, I'm doing something that's
not working.
What the heck is wrong here?
How can I fix this process?
Then you found the answer andyou did it, which is amazing.
(08:23):
So how did you find this, thekey psychologically to do all of
that?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
You know it's.
This leads into another aspectof my journey which I think is
really important and sort of nowwith talk of motivation and
mindset and stuff a little bitoverlooked which is external
motivation, and I'll talk aboutwhat I'm alluding to here in a
moment.
But you know all the variousprograms that I did, because I
did doctor led programs as a kidtrying to lose weight, I did
(08:52):
doctor led programs.
I worked with various trainers.
My parents were always sort ofsupportive for me trying to get
healthy, as one might imagine,and so I did have the
understanding that there weretwo pieces to this equation
there was exercise and there wasnutrition.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
The nutrition changes were just the not fun ones.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I didn't want to make those changes.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
So that's why I started with the exercise and,
you know, sort of as a as astill uninformed teenager, I
assumed that if I worked outenough, that would solve the
problem, that would do it.
And so it wasn't until I had togo through that process of
putting in so much effort anddoing so much work and
sacrificing so much and notgetting the results that I
(09:34):
wanted that sort of the realityset in that, okay, you can't
just cheat this equation by justfocusing on one part right,
anything multiplied by zero isstill zero.
We got to do some changes tothe, to the nutrition side, and
so that's when I just sort ofgrit my teeth and, and you know,
succumb to the reality that allright, we gotta we gotta stop
(09:56):
going out to the fast food sooften.
We got to stop just eatingwhatever we want whenever we
want, which was the otherproblem.
Because I had a part-time jobas a teenager, I had a lot of
expendable income for that ageand so I could spend it on food
whenever I wanted.
I could go and, you know, haveaccess to those things as many
adults do now, and so it was.
It was that sort of realization.
(10:17):
But to the point about theexternal motivation is one of my
motivating factors for gettingin shape, which has sort of been
true my entire life is.
At the time I had gotten myfirst girlfriend as a
17-year-old and I rememberthinking expressly that when I
got into that relationship thatI wanted to be the person that
(10:40):
she could show off to herfriends.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
And be proud of, and internally I didn't think I was
that person.
So I think that is a keyelement of I wasn't just doing
it because I wanted to behappier and healthier, I was
doing it for her too.
And so when I did all thisexercise, didn't focus on the
nutrition, didn't see theresults results whereas a lot of
(11:04):
times in the past I would belike, well, this doesn't work,
I'm just gonna stop, I'm gonnaget discouraged and do it.
That no longer became an option, because then it would have
also been letting somebody elsedown.
You know we are masterrationalizers.
We can justify anything in ourbrains if we try hard enough.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
And so that external motivation, that external factor
prevented me from being able torationalize it away, gotcha and
that sort of, led me down thepath of okay, this isn't working
, so what will work?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Okay, I'm so impressed that a 17-year year
old had the awareness courage todo all of that.
You know I could barely dolaundry, you know, when I was 17
.
So good for you.
Listen, jay.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
I got.
I got to preface it by sayingthis is all.
You know the words I'm usingand the way I'm describing.
It's in hindsight of 17 yearsof experience, so I'm sure it
wasn't this glorious at the time.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Well, but you got a hell of a story out of it that.
I did that's important and I'mbeing a smartass when I say that
, but it's also serious.
It's also true because yourstory has helped you, help other
people in your business, helpedyou, helped other people in
(12:28):
your business.
So I'm always telling, tellingmy folks how important it is to
know their own story and thevalue of it.
We often think that, oh, it'sjust my story, it's nobody cares
who you know.
Or we have the oppositeapproach and think that every
that the wrong things about usare fascinating how many
certifications I have and youknow what my personal best is on
bench or whatever and likenobody cares.
You have to relate your storyso that they can see something
(12:50):
in themselves.
Right?
So how, how?
How did you discover thatyourself?
Obviously you have discoveredit and you have used that story.
Maybe you're tired of it.
Maybe you go away from it andcome back to it.
Tell me about your relationshipwith that story.
Hey, are you a fitnessprofessional trying to grow your
(13:11):
business with people over 50?
If you are, then you need toknow how to communicate with
them, how to market to them andhow to get them to trust you
with their fitness, well-beingand money.
We're talking about millions ofpeople who are a little older
than the typical market that thefitness industry usually
pursues.
They have more money, more timeand better motivation to make
(13:34):
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If you're not focusing on them,you should be.
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(13:54):
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That's prime like prime of yourlife fitcontentcom.
Back to the show.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
You know that's a great question and because
you're right, when I firstbecame a trainer, shortly after
college, I leveraged that storyheavily in all of my marketing
because I was passionate aboutit.
And I was passionate, you know,the life that I had then, the
life that I have now, is outsideof the realm of what I ever
thought was possible in terms ofthe things I've been able to do
(14:26):
and experience and who I amtoday.
And that's only become more trueas time has gone on.
And that's only become moretrue as time has gone on.
And so feeling that shift inthe trajectory of my life was so
powerful that I wanted to shareit with everyone.
That's where I got intocoaching.
I wanted to be able to createthat experience in others, no
matter when they started.
And over time, as my identitygot further away the sort of
(14:52):
after Alex became further andfurther distanced from the
before Alex I stopped talkingabout that story because it
didn't seem as relevant for meanymore.
Those parts of me that stuckaround were becoming more and
more muted and I just didn't seemyself as that person and it
felt almost disingenuine toleverage that story, because I
(15:17):
didn't see myself as that personand it felt almost disingenuine
to leverage that story becauseit just I didn't recognize the
person in those photos anymore.
It'd be like using some randompersons before photos for your
program and it's interestingbecause I had, you know I've
since started to sort ofreconnect with that
transformation story, but itcame at the tail end of an
(15:37):
epiphany, which is a moment ofself-reflection that I had a
couple of years ago, which isthe person that I am today, and
sort of the person that Icontinue to strive to become in
my personal life, is the exactperson that I would have given
anything to trade places withwhen I was the old Alex.
So sort of the entire thesis ofmy adulthood has been becoming
(15:59):
the person that I would havewanted to be back then, because
I remember as that overweight,low self-esteem, struggling
teenager literally havingmoments where I would have given
anything to trade places withcertain people that I thought
had everything that I wantedRight, and that realization that
I am in a process of becomingthat version that younger me
(16:23):
would have admired and wouldhave wanted to strive to be like
is sort of shifted.
The framework with which I viewthe work that I do with all of
the clients that I work withAgain, whatever age they're
starting at of, how do we helpthem embrace the version of them
that they know is inside thatthey want to be?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yes, and that segues beautifully to what I want to
talk about, which is how we?
The reason I wanted you to getinto your story in so much
detail is not just because it'sa great story, but because it's
kind of at the heart of what wedo.
(17:05):
What health and fitnessprofessionals try to do for
their clients is help thembecome the person that they want
to be.
Clients is help them become theperson that they want to be,
whatever that might mean forthat person.
And so how do you use all ofthat your experiences, and then
also your experiences ofwatching people react to you as
these two sort of two differentpeople almost?
(17:26):
How do you apply all of that toyour clients to help them
understand what's going on intheir head that they might not
even be aware of, that's drivingtheir behavior?
How do you encourage them to beopen to change, and then not
just being open to it, but howto do it?
How do you actually make change?
(17:48):
I mean, it's a big, loadedquestion.
Unpack it as you as you see fit, but basically I want to make a
connection between the lifestory you just told us and the
work that we do.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah.
So I'm going to start with thisin the beginning by sharing
another interesting realizationI had as I got maybe a few years
into my coaching career career,as you might imagine, you know,
my now entire life revolvingaround fitness, professionally
and personally, continuing to,you know, run races and do these
athletic events and get inbetter shape and get stronger
(18:21):
and get more PRs the people thatI was trying to connect to
before Alex's, because I was sofar removed from that.
I realized that the way that Iwas sharing my story and who I
was then almost made it feelimpossible for people right,
this is one of the core conceptswhen we talk about developing
(18:43):
self-confidence and a belief inourselves to be successful
Self-efficacy.
There's four components, one ofwhich is vicarious experience,
which is being able to seepeople who we can relate to
accomplish the things that wewant to accomplish, because that
instills a belief in us that wecan do it too.
And I failed at leveraging thatbecause I was no longer
(19:03):
relatable to the people that Iwas talking to, and so the help
I was trying to give, the adviceI was providing, the motivation
I wanted to instill in people,was falling flat because I was
written off as the anomaly, theexception.
I'm never going to be thatperson, I'm never going to
achieve those type of goals.
(19:23):
And so I had to get very clearon and this plays into sort of
the behavior change process is,I think, a lot of times because
I made the mistake of jumpingright to the optimal changes,
the things that are going to getthe best results, and what we
fail to realize is all of thebehaviors that have led a person
to be where they are, in theirhealth are years in the making,
(19:50):
habitually designed routinesthat are often being performed
unconsciously, and we're askingthem to change all of it
overnight.
And not only is there resistancementally because now we're
asking them to change theiridentity overnight as well as a
part of that but we're askingthem to change things they don't
(20:11):
even know they're having aproblem with, necessarily.
And so a big part to start istrying to figure out where they
are, so we can meet them thereand then take them on the
journey gradually to make thesechanges in a way that is not
overwhelming, in a way thatseems reasonable, that seems
realistic for them, they can beconfident in, to stand the best
(20:34):
chance of actually making thosechanges.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I like that.
We're done.
That was great.
No, I'm kidding, of course.
You were telling me earlierabout the big five inventory.
Does that relate to what youwere just describing?
A?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
hundred percent.
So that's the process we use tofigure out where people are and
meet them there.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Okay, tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
So the big five inventory is a personality test
that measures five.
It measures on a spectrum, eachof these five variables of the
continuum.
It measures where they fall onfive different attributes and
you can remember it easily bythe acronym OCEAN.
And before I explain what eachof those five are, the thing
about the big five and why we'vechosen that one, is there are a
(21:21):
number of different personalityassessments out there.
One of the challenges, ofcourse, is very few of them have
great predictive power, whichbasically means whatever results
you get are actually accuratelypredicting how you're going to
behave, means whatever resultsyou get are actually accurately
predicting how you're going tobehave.
And that's a problem because ifit doesn't actually predict
behavior accurately, it's notreally useful for us to leverage
(21:41):
in behavior change.
The big five inventory has amuch higher predictive power, so
it's much more accurate inpredicting that behavior, which
is why we leverage it.
But it measures your level onfive different attributes.
But it measures your level onfive different attributes
Acronym OCEAN the first beingopenness.
How open and receptive are weto new experiences?
Are we adventurous?
Do we like to try new things,new restaurants, new activities?
(22:04):
Do we just like to explore?
Or are we low in openness?
Do we prefer the things thatwe're comfortable with?
Do we like to do the sameactivities, the same hobbies,
talk to the same people, go tothe same restaurants?
Stay within our bubble ofcomfort?
So that's the first.
The second is conscientiousness, which a good way to think
(22:28):
about this is how much do welike routine?
We're high in conscientiousness.
We really like our routines.
We like everything laid out andplanned ahead of time Right.
Another way to think about thismore colloquially is like type
a, type B personality.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Low consciousness they're going to be prefer more
spontaneity.
Someone that measures low inthis attribute is likely going
to be a little bit resistant tolike a super rigid, structured
plan, because they feel likestructure robs them of their
freedom.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
And when we know that there's ways we can work around
it, which we'll talk about herein a moment.
The third attribute isextroversion, the opposite of
which is introversion.
So low extroversion and beingintroverted and this is not
necessarily a product of shynessor not, which I think is often
confused, but more so how we getour energy.
What fills up our cup?
(23:21):
Extroverted individuals, peoplewho are high in extroversion
get their energy being aroundpeople.
My girlfriend and I laughedoften about this because
whenever we're in the car, justthe two of us I'm introverted,
she's extroverted.
I'm totally fine sitting insilence.
I can drive an hour and not saya word with someone else in the
(23:43):
car with me.
She needs to talk the wholetime.
That there's silence.
It's no good, right.
So we have to compromise onthat.
But this is a good example ofthe difference between these.
But as related to that in thecoaching context is the
communication preferences ofsomeone.
So in our program, how oftenwe're you know whether it's in
(24:06):
person or online we do a lot ofonline coaching how frequently
we're communicating with people.
If someone's extroverted, it'seasier for us to connect with
them more often throughout theweek to make sure everything's
going well.
They're always happy to receivethose.
They'll always respond timely.
Someone who's introverted,which we learn the hard way.
If we overwhelm them with toofrequent of communication, they
(24:27):
shut down and they feeloverwhelmed.
So that plays a big role.
The fourth attribute isagreeableness.
So this is sort of howconflict-avoidant are people,
how skeptical are people.
Someone who's high inagreeableness who might sign on
for your program are just goingto listen to everything you say.
(24:49):
They're going to agree toeverything.
They're just going to soak itall in.
They're going to be a sponge.
Someone who's low onagreeableness is going to be a
little bit more skeptical.
They might ask more questionswhy are we doing certain things?
Why are you giving me thisadvice?
Why do I need to follow thisnutrition advice?
None of those are bad, but caninfluence how we approach those
(25:12):
questions.
And then the last of the fiveattributes neuroticism, is
essentially just how likely arethey to worry about things
internally?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Right.
Someone who is low neuroticismsay their goal is to lose 10
pounds and gain a little bit ofstrength.
If they're low neurotic andthey do a progress check and
they realize they've lost half apound that week, but oh sweet,
all right, let's.
What tweaks do I need to maketo expedite that?
Or that's pretty good, I'mstill making progress.
(25:43):
No, no worries.
Someone who's high inneuroticism and they see they've
only lost half a pound?
I can be like Alex.
Why is this not more I'm doing?
Speaker 2 (25:53):
everything.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
What are we going to do?
Right, right.
And so when we understand wherepeople fall on these attributes
high, low or somewhere inbetween we can tailor not just
the advice that we give and howwe structure the program, but
how we deliver it to them in away that meets them where they
(26:14):
are now, because there arecertain combinations of these
attributes that can prove alittle bit more challenging.
A good example of this someonewho is low extroversion, so
they're introverted.
High in agreeableness, sothey're not very conflict
avoidant, and high inneuroticism, is the person who,
(26:36):
when you check on them, is goingto tell you everything's okay.
They're not going to communicatevery often and they're going to
be worried the entire time, andso when we measure these which
we do by creating a expeditedintake process, a survey that we
include in our questionnaireswhen people join us we know to
watch out for that.
(26:56):
We know to approach that in avery particular way that elicits
feedback from them, that makesthem feel more comfortable to
share how they're feeling, sothat they're not silently
suffering behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Got it.
Now I want to ask you how doesall this apply differently If it
is different at all, I don'tknow.
Maybe it's not, or how canpeople in nutrition and fitness
help their clients who are alittle bit older, who are 50, 60
(27:35):
, 70 and above, who maybe havetheir own particular issues with
nutrition?
They don't get enough protein,or they eat too much crap, or
they go through thedrive-through at the fast food
too often, or whatever.
I mean, it's just like everyone.
They've got their own issueswith nutrition, although of
(27:55):
course, there are some that aremore pronounced with people who
are older.
I don't want to put adefinition on something if it's
not there, but are there someparticular lessons here for the
listeners who work primarilywith older people or who are
trying to communicate primarilywith older people?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
So the way the Big Five inventory influence how you
can deal with the programdoesn't change very much for the
older population of people, butwhat does change, as you well
know, is how some of thesethings manifest themselves and
the stories that these peoplemight be telling themselves.
So I'll share from my personalexperience.
(28:35):
The thing I love about thepopulation of people over 50 is
they are some of the mostmotivated individuals when it
comes to their health that I'veworked with, because oftentimes
they are seeing their elderlyparents starting to suffer
medically and they want to avoidthat.
In themselves, they see thereal urgency of it.
(28:58):
Sometimes they're starting tostruggle with their own health,
depending on where they're at intheir fitness journey, and so,
unlike younger populations ofpeople who know theoretically
that they're going to be betteroff if they focus on their
health now, are not reallypaying the price of that to the
same degree.
Yet they're still able to putoff that pain into the future.
(29:19):
This older population, theymight already be dealing with it
.
Those problems are at their gate, at their front door, and so
there's a real urgency to makethese changes and, as a result,
are likely to feel the benefitsfaster and more profoundly
because they can see thedifference, and so that is
(29:39):
something that I love about thispopulation, is something that I
love about this population howwe sort of meet them where they
are is really the difference isthe stories they're telling
themselves.
Because, again, from my personalexperience in working with
these populations, I've heardstories of skepticism in their
own ability to succeed becauseof their age, because of maybe
they've never, maybe I haveworking with a client who's 65
(30:03):
and has never been involved in afitness, a structured fitness
program her entire life andthinks it's too late to start,
and so those are challenges tobe overcome.
But in applying thesepersonality traits and how we
deliver it to match theirpersonality type, what that
(30:23):
allows us to do, do again, allof this comes back to the theme
of meeting people where they arein their journey, both
physically and mentally, so thatwe can build the confidence and
the competency so that they canstart to shift some of those
stories shift.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Some of those stories sounds a lot like reverse
behavior change and personalitytraits in the rear view mirror,
right Like well, this happenedwhen I was such and such age,
and now I'm going to look at ita little bit differently in a
way that serves me now.
Is that what we're getting at?
Or maybe not, but it stillsounds like a good idea if you
(31:03):
can manage it.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Well, so our I mean, you're absolutely right and
you're stumbling on somethingimportant which is our entire
reality is dictated by stories.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
So you know, you know this when we're going through
the world, we are experiencingvarious stimulus sight, sounds,
taste, smells, touch.
That's just raw data.
That's like looking at an Excelspreadsheet with a bunch of
numbers and we have no contextfor what the numbers mean.
It doesn't mean anything to us,and so, as we're going through
the world, these sensations andthe stimulus doesn't actually
(31:32):
mean anything until we interpretthat data, we give it context,
and the way our brain does thatis by telling stories.
I touched a hot stove and ithurts.
What stories?
I touch the hot stove and ithurts.
What does that mean?
It means things that are hotcause pain.
I shouldn't do that again.
Right, and so one of the uniquechallenges of this older
(31:53):
population when it comes tohealth behavior change is
oftentimes the stories they'rewriting about their identity
around fitness.
Whether they've been active ornot, overcoming some of the very
real health and medical issuesthey might be starting to deal
with or have been dealing with,is they've had a story that
(32:16):
they've been writing aboutthemselves and their world for
however long, and so everychange that we're trying to make
as a health practitioner,trying to improve their
nutrition, trying to get them tomove more.
Whatever the case is is, we areessentially, fundamentally,
trying to inspire them to writea different story, which is what
I meant when I said that it'snot.
(32:38):
Oh, I'm 65 and I've neverexercised.
I'm not going to be good at itto.
Okay, what can I do?
What am I capable of?
What skills can I build aroundmovement?
And so the personality traitsand how we deliver it again is
(32:58):
part of that storytransformation, but in a way
that allows it to feel moremanageable to start making the
changes.
So that because, again, thestories are from a product of
our experience If we believethat we're not going to be
successful at a nutrition changeprogram, I'm not going to be
(33:21):
able to change my eating, I'mnot going to be able to eat more
protein, I don't like thesefoods.
X, y, z.
If we can approach those changesin a way that agrees with them
not ask someone who's lowopenness.
We're picking foods theyalready love, so we're not
asking them to try anything new,someone who prefers their
spontaneity.
We're not giving them a rigidmeal plan.
(33:43):
We're just suggesting somechanges and giving them the
freedom to decide how they makethose changes, when we do this
in a way that's more agreeablefor them to start implementing,
more realistic for them and theystart to see themselves succeed
.
They start to see themselvesmake the changes.
(34:03):
Suddenly that story that they'renot going to be able to change
their eating is being challenged.
Not by what we're telling thembecause we can tell people they
can do this all day long doesn'tmean they don't believe it but
through their own actions andtheir own experiences.
They're seeing that they'reeating differently in these ways
when previously they neverthought they could.
And and now that causes them toquestion well, was I correct
(34:31):
that I'm no good at this?
And then that plants the seedto eventually being good at it
and making the changes andgetting the benefits.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Without being too simplistic about it, can we
break all this down to maybethree points?
That your average nutritionistor fitness provider out there
trying to help his clients eatbetter, lacking your experience
or your expertise, how can theyapproach this in a way that they
can manage?
(34:58):
I own a gym.
I have some nutritioncounseling for my clients.
I want to help them succeed,but I don't have your wealth of
knowledge.
What can I do to help them?
Speaker 1 (35:11):
If I were going to simplify it in the most way
possible, it would be identifywhat their fears are.
Fears are, have them figure outwhat small changes feel
manageable so we're notdictating what that is they are
(35:33):
and then, when they startsucceeding at those changes,
asking them whether the originalfears are still true, okay,
basically asking them to rewrite.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Still true, okay.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Basically asking them to rewrite their story.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah, I like that.
That's something that a laymanI can understand.
I got you, I'm with you on that.
I can see how that would behelpful to someone, okay.
So anything else about thisparticularly slightly older
demographic that is relevantregarding your work in nutrition
or also perhaps in fitness, andhow you do outreach to them,
(36:13):
how you communicate with themthat you find oh, I noticed that
people this tends to workbetter, or I won't make that
mistake again Any kind ofpractical lesson you've learned,
or I won't make that mistakeagain Any kind of practical
lesson you've learned.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I think you know it's easy.
I think, about the youngerpopulations that I work with
adjacent to this and when itcomes to nutrition changes and
tracking, we're food logs andapps and all these other tools
that we use, and I find, with alot of my older population
individuals, some of them arevery tech savvy more so than me
(36:47):
in many ways but, by and large,keeping things as simple as
possible, just as fundamental,doing less of like get out your
food scale and weigh this andweigh that and do all that to.
Okay, let's just what are youdoing now and how can we, you
know, add a little bit of extraprotein, or how can we make this
(37:08):
portion size a little smaller,or how can we?
As you said earlier,simplifying things as much as
possible is, by and large,incredibly beneficial.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Yeah, yeah, I like that.
I think that so many times it'soverwhelming to people of any
age to say, oh, I can't everhave fun again.
I can never drink a beer again,I can never eat a slice of
pizza again.
I have to live at the gym Likeno, you don't just stop eating
so much garbage and get off thecouch a few times a week.
(37:44):
That's all you got to do tostart right.
Exactly, it's like we have thisall or nothing idea in our
heads about everything and it'sjust not useful.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Right, you're absolutely right.
The all or nothing mindset thatyou alluded to is if we're not
perfect, it's not worth it.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
It's completely wrong .
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, all right.
Well, we've got to change someminds here.
We've got our work cut out forus, alex, and I want you to tell
the folks listening how theycan reach you, where they can go
to find out more, to be intouch if they'd like to be.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Absolutely Well, the best place to find me.
You know I have a newsletterthat I've published multiple
times a week where I talk aboutthis intersection of fitness and
psychology.
So if you're interested in themindset stuff and how to
leverage that a little bit more,both for yourself, for your
clients or whatever the case is,you can find that that's on my
sub stack.
A team fit a t e a mI-T dotsubsec dot com.
(38:42):
Free to subscribe.
Again, I publish multiple timesa week.
It's probably the best place toget in touch and get some
additional resources.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I want you to spell that again, please.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yeah, a-t.
As in Tom, e-a-m.
As in Mike.
I-t.
As in Tom Dot subsec dot com.
Okay, got it.
I T as in Tom that subseccom.
Okay, got it.
18 fit.
Oh, I spelled that wrong.
F as in Frank, 18 fit.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yeah, a team fit a team like Mr T.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yes A team like Mr T.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
All right, alex, it's been a pleasure.
My my mind has been open insome some very fresh and helpful
ways, and helpful is the keyhere.
Because it's been a pleasure,my mind has been opened in some
very fresh and helpful ways, andhelpful is the key here,
because it's so easy to get lostin the weeds when we're talking
about this stuff, and it's notalways the most helpful.
So I want to thank you forjoining me today.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Jay, it's been amazing.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
All right, have a good one.
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