November 20, 2023 • 32 mins
How can we amplify the impact of our words and actions? Join us in this riveting conversation with Dr. Joseph DiRuzzo as we journey into the heart of effective communication. Dr. Joe masterfully breaks down communication into basic sensory modalities - visual, auditory, kinesthetic, olfactory, gustatory, and vestibular. With anecdotes drawn from Dr. Spock's parenting techniques and personal childhood experiences, he makes a compelling case for adopting and incorporating at least two modalities for impactful communication. This episode promises to thrust you into a new realm of understanding about the power of multi-modal communication.
We further dissect the role of different sensory modalities in our interactions and decision-making processes. Find out how body language and tone of voice can alter the entire perception of a message and how strategically employing these elements can optimize communication. We also probe into the vital concept of meaning and significance in communication. Dive into a discussion about how education, life experience, and self-confidence influence our ability to express ourselves effectively. This is a conversation you don't want to miss as we delve into the art of effective communication, helping you transform the way you connect with others.
For more information be sure to visit Dr. Joe's website, optimalhumanexperience.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
This is the Optimal Human Experience Podcast with Dr
Joseph DiRuzzo.
To learn more, visitOptimalHumanExperiencecom.
And now.
Dr Joseph DiRuzzo and theOptimal Human Experience Podcast
.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome to episode 12 of the Optimal Human Experience
Podcast with Dr Joseph DiRuzzo.
I'm Paul Andrew, I'm here withDr Joe and Dr Joe.
The question must arise what doyou want to talk about?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
You know I always have a hard time communicating
with you.
No matter what I say or do Iget the feeling, you just don't
get it and you know I don't knowwhere to go from there.
What?
I'm sorry.
Did you say something?
Why don't we talk aboutmeaningful and impactful
communication?
Okay, all right.
(01:06):
So the thing with communicationis you have to come from like
being centered and you have tocommunicate in the most powerful
way and with the rightintention and then people get it
right and in the greater schemeof the universe and in this
galaxy, like meaningfulcommunication comes from intent
(01:28):
and going to a space of wherecommunication is like open.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Well, you know, you said a lot of words there and
I'm sure they meant something insome part of the galaxy.
I mean, I got to process that.
What the hell are you talkingabout?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
It's time to process, but it's always time to process
.
The more meaningful, you know,you processing is more All right
.
So communication is a problemfor most people and we're going
to simplify, simplify, simplify,just the absolute nuts and
bolts of communication.
And this is straight NLP theory.
One time John Grinder said tome how do you know when
(02:11):
something is real?
And I went, duh, I don't know.
I don't know, boss.
He said characteristically,it's when you have at least two
modalities functioning out ofvisual, auditory kinesthetic.
He said you're sitting in yourchair.
How do you know that thecomputer in front of you is real
If you close your eyes?
(02:33):
Could you swear on your, onyour father's grave that it's
real?
And the answer is no, notreally.
You say to somebody how do youknow something's real?
And what do theycharacteristically do?
They will reach out and touchit and then they'll say, okay,
this is real.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Right.
So if I close my eyes and yousay okay, could you swear on all
that is holy, that thatcomputer that was in front of
you a minute ago, could youswear beyond the shadow of a
doubt that it's still there?
You know, I would say yeah,except the thing that would
(03:12):
cement it for me would be, withmy eyes closed, reach forward
and kind of touch and make sureit's still there.
Make sure it's still there,make sure it's still there.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
So how we know something is real right.
All right, so you've hadchildren, right?
Yes, oh, yes.
And if one of your children,like, fills their pants, how do
you know it's real?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Don't go there, man.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
You can see it and smell it.
It's real.
Yeah, you can, yeah, so mostsometimes you can hear it.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
If they're, like you know, running with, forget it.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, it's always is real.
So real communication occurswhen we have at least two of the
modalities.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
And that's how we know something is real.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Okay, and the modalities you mentioned visual
auditory kinesthetic go over themodalities that we visual,
auditory, kinesthetic.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Those are the three main ones V, a, k and most
people will tend to specializeto a greater or lesser extent in
one of those sensory modalities.
Now, another sense of sensorymodalities is olfactory,
gustatory, smell and taste.
Oh, we just talked about thatwith the kids.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Guess what Emerald Legasi specialized in.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Oh, the, the famous chef guy with makes the pizzas
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, and they'll say you know, this is refining the
fragrance.
And then they will tell you, bywhat they do and what they say,
what their primary orrepresentational system is oh
for them, as individuals, inother words someone says someone
says I see what you're saying.
They're very visual.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, Cause they ain't seeing what you're saying
unless you got words.
You know, speech bubbles overyour head I'll.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I'll think about that .
I'll have to see how I feel.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
So, because I can't feel it.
I have to see it.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I can't feel it.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
I need to see it in one's visual, auditory,
kinesthetic, and then there'solfactory, gustatory, and then
there's muscle movement.
Right, why is a pianist Good atplaying piano?
They've practiced it over andover and over.
They put so much sensory inputinto their muscle movement that
they can move their muscles andremember.
(05:51):
And then the last one would bevestibular, a balance kind of a
thing.
All right, so the key, thesecret, the key, this core
organizing principle, is to putyour communication in more than
one sensory modality.
And the paradigm example iswhen Dr Spock, the child
(06:14):
psychologist, started havingparents talk to their children
as if the children were littleadults, right, and they say well
, tommy, that's not very nice.
I'm going to ask you to stopthat now.
Now I grew up and my motherwould yell at me knock it off,
and she'd give me a SWATsimultaneously Right on the
(06:36):
bohine, and I got sensory inputthat was kinesthetic and
auditory.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I would guess that at some times that was rather
impactful on your actions, Inever had the sense that I
didn't get it Right.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
So let us think about communication.
If you are not communicating intwo or more modalities, you're
going to be relativelyineffective.
If you're communicating in amodality that is not one of the
primary sensory modalities forthat person, it will influence
your degree of being effective.
(07:20):
Now let's kick in anothervariable, and that's open your
eyes and look at them, and ifthey look like they didn't get
it, chances are good.
What?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I'm going to say take a stab in the dark and say, you
know, if they don't look likethey got it, chances are they
didn't get it.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
They didn't get it and it's your responsibility.
If you want to communicate,then go back and do it again and
add some more sensory input.
Either wave your hands or shakethem by the shoulder, or change
your tone of voice or increaseyour tone of voice, or do
something so that you're puttingas much sensory data into this
(07:59):
person and then when they go,boink I got it, you can see it
on their face.
They'll have that aha moment.
So would you indication isrelatively ineffective when it's
only one sensory modality.
It's just not enough.
By the way if you run a stopsign, what's going to happen?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Well, it depends on who's watching, or if anybody's
watching.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
The reason you stop is because in the back of your
mind there's a policeman there.
It's actually sensory input,this visual, and it's backed up
by kinesthetic and auditory.
Cops going to come.
He's going to run his siren,he's going to pull me over.
That's very impactful.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
So at that point, do you recommend putting in as much
as many different modalities?
Speaking to the cop?
Grab him by the shoulder, lethim move your arms.
Flail about convinced this copthat you didn't run that stop.
(09:07):
Sign why you're going tobelieve me or you're lying eyes.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
He will believe his lying eyes.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I don't know.
I thought it might work.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Well, you know, suppose your wife comes up to
you and she says the childrenhave been misbehaving dear.
All right, that's a certaininput, right?
What if she comes up to you andshe's like purple with rage and
her arms and legs are flailingabout and she goes the children
have been misbehaving all daylong.
(09:38):
What is a more impactfulmessage in your nervous system?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
The flailing about in ducking shoes and other
household objects.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Yes, yes, so it is actually quite simple If you
talk to somebody and just givethem words remember the Bee Gees
had their only words.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
But words are all.
Yeah, take your love away.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
It's only when it's only words, it's not a complete
communication.
So talk to somebody and say tothem here's what I want to say
to you, and say it just in words.
Notice their response.
The big thing in NLP was noticethe response you get.
People used to say to me do youever work with the deaf and the
blind?
And I used to say all the time,all the time some of them not
(10:37):
yet diagnosed.
So when you look at somebody andyou give them a message and
they do not get, that aha moment, chances are good.
Your communication was afailure and of course, it's all
their fault, right, yeah,clearly clearly, clearly,
especially, especially withcouples, especially with couples
, oh yeah.
(10:58):
No fault communication.
Well, in there, in theirattempts to be like civil to one
another, they'll sit anddiscuss things as if they were
having tea in in Great Britainand you know the the better
moral.
Well, I would appreciate ifyou'd refrain from doing that,
dear and and in her responses.
Well, I'm pleased that you canmention it to me.
(11:18):
It's, it's, I'll do.
I'll do what I can't To make acomplete communication for your
experiment and for our listeningaudience.
Say this something important tosomebody.
Notice chances are good they'renot going to respond.
Get closer to them, turn purpleand change your tone of voice.
Just you clean, you'll justarticulate wildly and notice
(11:42):
they will get an aha moment andyou can see it right before the
fist impacts your the bridge ofyour nose setting that aside,
that's your learning on your end.
Okay, so many people who say Itold him a thousand times.
Yeah, you have told him athousand times and you've been
(12:04):
ineffective in communication athousand times.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
It's time to do something a little different so
that it would seem that oneimportant part of this knowledge
would be Noticing what theother person's main modality of
communication is.
So, given that you have workedwith the, the deaf and the blind
(12:29):
on numerous occasions, however,being people that can have full
vision and full auditorycapabilities, how did, how,
could one Notice, since theydon't already?
I know, I don't how help us,doctor, help us?
(12:49):
How do we?
How do we know what otherpeople are?
What's gonna work with someone?
Just Pile on and do everythingfrom?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Yeah, pylon, doing well.
Your first, you know, yourfirst hunch is to slap them.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Right yeah, kinesthetic right now.
You feel it Okay?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yeah, slap them and across the face and scream at
them.
And so you, I, you know, you'vegot visual kinesthetic and and
an auditory so Start just notice, you know, when people are
distressed they willcharacteristically look down and
into the right, so People willnot be noticing what's going on
(13:28):
for the other person.
Much of the time.
They'll be overloaded withtheir own you know feelings and
they won't be paying attentionto the person.
I had a.
I had a friend whose name wasJoanne and she was a delightful
person.
Her father was an ogre of somesort and he was mean to
everybody in the family.
Her mother committed suicide byBlowing her brains out in the
(13:52):
bedroom and which is aninteresting way of saying what
Not tonight, dear.
Yeah, I have a headache.
I mean this.
I mean this is real people.
And her sister committedsuicide.
She tried to Cut her wrist andwhen that didn't work, she hung
herself in the closet.
She had one brother who was ina mental institution and another
(14:13):
brother was just an out and outalcoholic and I, you know, I
was absolutely enamored with her, having very little experience
in the real world.
But you know, here's the pointhold on.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
So this was someone that that you met in years past,
and you're interested in them,romantic basis of sorts, and but
you didn't know any of thisbackground.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Well, when I found out, you know, I still didn't
understand the significance ofit.
We'll talk about thesignificance of stuff in a
minute.
But I didn't notice, and sheused to.
She was very visual.
I used to call her two eyes anapopsicle stick.
She was skinny and she, andwhen she would get stressed her
eyes would roll back in her head.
(15:02):
She would look straight up inthe air and go this is what I
get to see, this is what I getto see, whoa, whoa.
So she was very, what, veryvisual, apparently.
Yeah, so whenever she'd getstressed, you would go to her
primary Representational system,right, and mine is auditory.
(15:26):
So I'd want to talk about itand she didn't care.
She'd say, well, I, I see whatI see.
And I say, well, let's talk.
And She'd say, well, it doesn'tlook good for me.
And I say, well, you're notlistening to me.
So, like two ships and passingin the night, our communication
was hampered, primarily, tobegin with.
(15:47):
You know, auditory, joe, andVisual the gal, and we just, you
know, didn't work and on top ofit, in the communication we
didn't have this insight intocommunication.
You want to communicate?
Pause, take a deep breath,identify what you want to say,
what you want them to understand, and then say it to them and
(16:10):
mark it out also, either tonallyor with increased volume, or
reach over and wave your hand infront of their eyes or shake
their shoulder.
But do more than one sensoryinput system.
Do visual, auditory,kinesthetic or olfactory,
(16:32):
gustatory, muscle memory orvestibular balance, or do as
many of those as you can andmake it as much of a complete
experience for them as you cando it.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Got it.
Okay, we're about halfwaythrough.
I want to just say real quickif you like what you're hearing,
you want to learn more, pleasevisit optimalhumanexperiencecom.
Optimalhumanexperiencecom.
Go visit the website.
There's a lot more of theirvideos, more podcasts, all kinds
of stuff.
Now, going back to your, do asmany as you can, as many as you
(17:11):
can.
We already kind of talked about, okay, how do we determine what
the other person's primarymodality is.
You, I don't know.
Pay attention.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Well, first, of all, if they're highly visual,
they'll use their eyes.
They'll put their eyes up andleft and upright, and up left
and left and right, and they'llbe trying to picture what it is
that you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Okay, so when they're looking up either to the left
or to the right, that's a visualthey're in their visual part of
their brain and creating apicture of what it is they're
thinking about or talking about.
I see, hey, I see what you'resaying.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yeah, sure.
So if their eyes, they keeptheir eyes level about at the
same place that you would use atelephone, they are primarily
auditory and they'll, and theywill and they'll have they'll
put their hand gesture rightabout where they would be
holding a telephone.
(18:14):
They'll put their hand on theirchin and they'll put their hand
near their ear, because they'reauditory, primarily auditory.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Okay, and so if their eyes, instead of looking up
either to the left or the right,or like the gal Joanne you were
talking about, who lookedstraight up this is what I get
to see If, if, instead of that,their, their eyes are moving on
a level plane, like looking,like trying to see their ear,
looking at this ear or that ear,then that's indication of their
(18:44):
primary modality is auditory.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Auditory.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Okay, all right now.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
The third distinction is an abnormally organized
right-handed individual.
If they're accessing feelings,kinesthesia, they will
characteristically look downinto the right.
Does your?
Do you have a cat in your house?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
No, do not.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Where's the last cat that you remember touching?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Recently I took care of some cats when their owner
was on a trip, and that was Idon't know a few weeks ago.
All right, what color were they?
The cat was kind of a dark graywith a dappled looking coat,
long, long hair.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Did you pick it up?
Did you pick it up?
I did, and was it?
Was it heavy?
Did it weigh a lot, or was it?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, huge.
It was one of those main mainkoon cats which they, I guess
they get the size of a blackbear, which would not probably
win in a fight with a grizzlybear.
But that's a whole differentconversation.
Yeah, it was big, big cat.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Well, so I'm looking at you.
You put your eyes up and leftand right.
You did not access kinesthesiaand I'm kind of surprised at
that, but I have to just simplypay attention, all right, have
you had a disagreement with anyperson in your family as of late
(20:18):
?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Oh, I never disagree with anyone.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
And were there any feelings associated with that?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yes, yes there we go, yeah, and you listen to the
tone of voice thing, you'll gooh, I never had any feeling, any
disagreement with anybody.
I say, well, there are anyfeelings associated with that?
Well, yes, I guess so.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Oh, I suppose, and just so listeners realize, joe
and I can see each other.
We're on video.
You can't see it.
This is just auditory for youguys, but that's why he's making
fun of me.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Go ahead All right.
Well, the bottom line is toanswer you know, you have visual
, auditory kinesthetic, you haveolfactory, gastritory,
vestibular muscle movement, each.
The more input you can put intothis, the more they're going to
get out of it in terms ofcommunication.
The second part of our storywas my story personally was I
(21:22):
was invited to be a physician tothe Royal Family of Dubai and I
was 27 years of age and I didnot know the significance of
that.
I was freshly out ofChiropractic College.
It was during the era when Nixonhad returned from China and he
(21:45):
brought all these Chinesephysicians with him and they
brought traditional Chinesemedicine, tcm.
So I studied then I studiedacupuncture and herbs and all
the rest of that, and I was thenew kid on the block, the hot
Chat, and I was in SyracuseUniversity area.
I had a office up in Syracuseand In comes the head of the
(22:06):
English Department of SyracuseUniversity, nancy Sharp.
Dr Nancy Sharp, and she saysI'm sick and I've been to a
million doctors and nobody canhelp me.
Will you give it a shot?
I said one million doctors onemillion doc.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Was there any?
Speaker 3 (22:22):
I Never.
You know, I never on over.
You know, I never exaggerate.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
There's not the least bit of hyperbole here.
One million doctors.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
There's low purply.
But she tried all these doctors, nothing worked.
I gave her some Chinese herbsand like about sure she got
better.
She sang my praises to herhusband, dr Roger sharp Roger,
and he was in the chemistrydepartment there in Syracuse, so
he wasn't getting well, he wassick.
So little acupunctures andChinese herbs and again he got
(22:54):
better.
And they said we have a friendnamed Margo for ronto bedrawn.
She's head of the MiddleEastern studies in Hamilton
College, remember, named afterAlexander Hamilton.
All right okay so he comes sick,fix her up, no problem.
She says I want you to workwith my husband.
(23:15):
His name is Ali bedran.
He's going blind.
So in comes, ali bedran.
Little acupuncture, chinesemedicine, does great, gets his
site repaired.
He's doing fabulous.
He said to me I want to take youto the kingdom of Dubai, the
kingdom of Qatar, and you'll bethe head that, one of the
physicians, one of many, butnonetheless one of the
(23:37):
physicians to their Royal family.
Qatar or Dubai, which was it?
It was Qatar, qatar.
Okay, yeah, so it's down thestreet from Dubai.
Yeah, right, just the sameblock.
Anyways, there he went, theyhave all of our money because
they sold us their oil.
So he, I said to him, do I geta harem?
He said no harem.
(23:59):
I said no harem, no deal.
And the point I'm trying to makewas did I understand the
significance, at the ripe oldage of 27, of what that could
have meant to my life?
They wanted to fly me to Qatar,where I would have.
I would have probably gotten myhead chopped off because I
would have started spoutingstuff about Chalmers, jefferson
(24:21):
and all men are created equaland Unless you own, like the oil
underneath the, you know thecountry of Qatar, in which case
you're not as equal as everybodyelse.
You're a lot more equal.
But I didn't understand thesignificance a Lot of times.
You know you don't understandthe significance.
At my advanced age I Was at a Iget together and one guy said I
(24:46):
was doing NLP and I said, ohyeah, I did, I know P.
Back in the day, another onesaid, well, I did est, air heart
seminar training.
I said, yeah, I did est too.
And this other guy said, well,I did life spring training.
I said, yeah, I was in on thatand I had been.
I had been flirting with thislittle black girl and she turned
to me and she said how the hellold are you anyways?
And the point is you don'tunderstand the significance.
(25:11):
First of all, miscommunicationis the rule rather than the
exception.
Okay, when two people gettogether.
One will be talking about theirfeelings, the other will be
talking about things don't looktoo good and another one will
say I can't hear either of you.
Right On top of it, they'recommunicating in only one, one
modality.
They will be talking and that'sit.
(25:33):
So the chances of a meaningfulcommunication getting through
are non-existent and, on top ofit, nobody understands the
significance of what's going onbecause they're not old enough.
When you get to my age, peoplesay to me how come you know?
You know all this stuff?
I say I'm old enough to be myown grandfather and that has
(25:55):
helped me immensely because Ihave judgment based on years and
years of experience.
I don't fight with idiots,which was one of my past time,
for many years.
I don't get in trouble with thelaw, which I used to think we
were a free nation and you couldactually like a free individual
.
I don't do any that stuffanymore.
I have wisdom which makes yourisk adverse, and you know a few
(26:16):
things.
When I watch TV and I watchthese groups get together, they
will talk people in their early20s or 30s.
I have doctorate levelunderstanding in in a number of
fields and I consider myselfhorribly uneducated.
My greek, my latin very poor.
My world history, my, mymolecular biology could be a lot
(26:40):
better.
And I look at people and youknow they have A high school
education.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
A full 18 minutes worth of of a of higher
education.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Exactly, and they have next to no life experience.
So they have no education andno life experience and they can
barely read and write their ownname and they're go out there in
the wild kingdom trying to dosomething meaningful.
Well, good luck on that.
Who is the head of one of thesegroups?
Said to a woman you like a manwith confidence, right?
She said, yeah, they have tohave confidence.
(27:13):
He said, yeah, confidence isimportant.
Well, there's a lostperformative there Confidence in
that he can do what.
I mean, does he just strutaround like a cry, you know,
like a rooster being confident.
He's looking confident.
Can you do anything?
No, can you know anything?
No, but you're confidentnonetheless.
I'm confident about it.
(27:33):
Yeah.
So the meaning, thesignificance, the importance you
first of all have to have ameaningful communication in at
least two sensory modalities,right, mm-hmm, and they have to
match up.
And then somebody starts to getthem the it's, they start to
grok that, they get it.
(27:54):
And then the other side of it.
I was at a place where a fellowPut me in touch with a man
named Christopher andChristopher apparently had a
contact In a publishing companyand they wanted to meet with me.
Well, christopher was dressedmostly in goth and I couldn't
take him seriously.
He looked like a complete fool.
(28:15):
And later on I found like 20years later, I found out that
this meeting had tremendousSignificance.
I didn't know that at the time.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
I thought it was one idea, and introducing me to
another idiot.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
How did I know?
So you have to first of all getit and then, second of all, you
have to get the significance ofit.
Then you have a communication.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Okay, I'll give you a name.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
A question.
So how does the average JoeSchmo on the street, without
years and years and years anddecades of experience, move
toward grasping the significanceof communications, especially
when most of them are in onemodality only?
(29:03):
So it's not a clearcommunication, it's a
miscommunication.
What's some practical advice,or is there any?
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Yeah, take my seminar .
Other than that, it's hopeless.
I mean it's utterly hopeless.
I see people argue and they getmarried and they argue in the
same mismatched modalities for30 or 40 years and there's no,
this is not impossible.
It's difficult if you don'tknow what's going on.
(29:32):
But if you don't have thisinformation, you know, when you
try to impress upon something tosomebody, first of all just
don't use just words.
Remember the Bee Gees?
They're only words, but wordsare all we have.
It's not just words, it'sgestures, it's tone of voice and
(29:54):
if you have the permission todo so, reach over and shake
their shoulder as you talk tothem.
Years ago I was teachinganchoring to some group and
there was a gallon there.
She anchored on my knee andlater on she was trying to tell
me something and I just didn'tget it.
She reached over and grabbedthe anchor and shook my leg.
(30:18):
The anchor was near my knee andimmediately I got what she was
trying to tell me.
If you do not have redundancyover and over again and the
right perceptual modality andget them to get it right, so
(30:40):
that may mean something to them.
And then you have to check andmake sure that they have some
significance to it and ifsomebody comes, brings you
somebody dressed in goth who'sgot important information you
probably wouldn't know thatoffhand and you know you have
the meaning of yourcommunication is what the
(31:01):
response you get.
That was like a big thing inNLP.
If you give a communication andsomebody just sits there like a
bump on a log, you didn'tcommunicate and it's up to you.
If you want to communicate,it's up to you to communicate.
Reach over and shake theirshoulder, get in their face,
make sure that they number oneget it, number two get the
(31:23):
significance of it.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Okay, then that's our time for episode 12 of the
optimal human experience with DrJoseph Deruzo.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
And they all get communications through time.
Do you get it?
Do you get?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
it.
Yeah, I get it All right.
You got it.
Okay.
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
This has been the Optimal Human Experience Podcast
with Dr Joseph Deruzo.
For the latest videos andcourses, visit
OptimalHumanExperiencecom.
Join us next time for theOptimal Human Experience Podcast
with Dr Joseph Deruzo.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
You know, there's something to be said for that
whole concept of being anapprentice, Learning things from
an apprenticeship point of view, because you get the
significance of these littletiny things that you do where
you know.
It seems like these days peopledon't take the time to become
experts in anything.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Well, even if they were, how would you know?
You know, I mean, it's allwords now.
There's no experience.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
There's no experience .
I do.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Every day I say the apprenticeship program is far
superior.
You've got academics and thenyou apply to it.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, All righty then .
This is the Optimal Human Experience Podcast with Dr
Joseph DiRuzzo.
To learn more, visitOptimalHumanExperiencecom.
And now.
Dr Joseph DiRuzzo and theOptimal Human Experience Podcast
.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome to episode 12 of the Optimal Human Experience
Podcast with Dr Joseph DiRuzzo.
I'm Paul Andrew, I'm here withDr Joe and Dr Joe.
The question must arise what doyou want to talk about?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
You know I always have a hard time communicating
with you.
No matter what I say or do Iget the feeling, you just don't
get it and you know I don't knowwhere to go from there.
What?
I'm sorry.
Did you say something?
Why don't we talk aboutmeaningful and impactful
communication?
Okay, all right.
(01:06):
So the thing with communicationis you have to come from like
being centered and you have tocommunicate in the most powerful
way and with the rightintention and then people get it
right and in the greater schemeof the universe and in this
galaxy, like meaningfulcommunication comes from intent
(01:28):
and going to a space of wherecommunication is like open.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Well, you know, you said a lot of words there and
I'm sure they meant something insome part of the galaxy.
I mean, I got to process that.
What the hell are you talkingabout?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
It's time to process, but it's always time to process
.
The more meaningful, you know,you processing is more All right
.
So communication is a problemfor most people and we're going
to simplify, simplify, simplify,just the absolute nuts and
bolts of communication.
And this is straight NLP theory.
One time John Grinder said tome how do you know when
(02:11):
something is real?
And I went, duh, I don't know.
I don't know, boss.
He said characteristically,it's when you have at least two
modalities functioning out ofvisual, auditory kinesthetic.
He said you're sitting in yourchair.
How do you know that thecomputer in front of you is real
If you close your eyes?
(02:33):
Could you swear on your, onyour father's grave that it's
real?
And the answer is no, notreally.
You say to somebody how do youknow something's real?
And what do theycharacteristically do?
They will reach out and touchit and then they'll say, okay,
this is real.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Right.
So if I close my eyes and yousay okay, could you swear on all
that is holy, that thatcomputer that was in front of
you a minute ago, could youswear beyond the shadow of a
doubt that it's still there?
You know, I would say yeah,except the thing that would
(03:12):
cement it for me would be, withmy eyes closed, reach forward
and kind of touch and make sureit's still there.
Make sure it's still there,make sure it's still there.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
So how we know something is real right.
All right, so you've hadchildren, right?
Yes, oh, yes.
And if one of your children,like, fills their pants, how do
you know it's real?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Don't go there, man.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
You can see it and smell it.
It's real.
Yeah, you can, yeah, so mostsometimes you can hear it.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
If they're, like you know, running with, forget it.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, it's always is real.
So real communication occurswhen we have at least two of the
modalities.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
And that's how we know something is real.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Okay, and the modalities you mentioned visual
auditory kinesthetic go over themodalities that we visual,
auditory, kinesthetic.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Those are the three main ones V, a, k and most
people will tend to specializeto a greater or lesser extent in
one of those sensory modalities.
Now, another sense of sensorymodalities is olfactory,
gustatory, smell and taste.
Oh, we just talked about thatwith the kids.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Guess what Emerald Legasi specialized in.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Oh, the, the famous chef guy with makes the pizzas
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, and they'll say you know, this is refining the
fragrance.
And then they will tell you, bywhat they do and what they say,
what their primary orrepresentational system is oh
for them, as individuals, inother words someone says someone
says I see what you're saying.
They're very visual.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, Cause they ain't seeing what you're saying
unless you got words.
You know, speech bubbles overyour head I'll.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I'll think about that .
I'll have to see how I feel.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
So, because I can't feel it.
I have to see it.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I can't feel it.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
I need to see it in one's visual, auditory,
kinesthetic, and then there'solfactory, gustatory, and then
there's muscle movement.
Right, why is a pianist Good atplaying piano?
They've practiced it over andover and over.
They put so much sensory inputinto their muscle movement that
they can move their muscles andremember.
(05:51):
And then the last one would bevestibular, a balance kind of a
thing.
All right, so the key, thesecret, the key, this core
organizing principle, is to putyour communication in more than
one sensory modality.
And the paradigm example iswhen Dr Spock, the child
(06:14):
psychologist, started havingparents talk to their children
as if the children were littleadults, right, and they say well
, tommy, that's not very nice.
I'm going to ask you to stopthat now.
Now I grew up and my motherwould yell at me knock it off,
and she'd give me a SWATsimultaneously Right on the
(06:36):
bohine, and I got sensory inputthat was kinesthetic and
auditory.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I would guess that at some times that was rather
impactful on your actions, Inever had the sense that I
didn't get it Right.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
So let us think about communication.
If you are not communicating intwo or more modalities, you're
going to be relativelyineffective.
If you're communicating in amodality that is not one of the
primary sensory modalities forthat person, it will influence
your degree of being effective.
(07:20):
Now let's kick in anothervariable, and that's open your
eyes and look at them, and ifthey look like they didn't get
it, chances are good.
What?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I'm going to say take a stab in the dark and say, you
know, if they don't look likethey got it, chances are they
didn't get it.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
They didn't get it and it's your responsibility.
If you want to communicate,then go back and do it again and
add some more sensory input.
Either wave your hands or shakethem by the shoulder, or change
your tone of voice or increaseyour tone of voice, or do
something so that you're puttingas much sensory data into this
(07:59):
person and then when they go,boink I got it, you can see it
on their face.
They'll have that aha moment.
So would you indication isrelatively ineffective when it's
only one sensory modality.
It's just not enough.
By the way if you run a stopsign, what's going to happen?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Well, it depends on who's watching, or if anybody's
watching.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
The reason you stop is because in the back of your
mind there's a policeman there.
It's actually sensory input,this visual, and it's backed up
by kinesthetic and auditory.
Cops going to come.
He's going to run his siren,he's going to pull me over.
That's very impactful.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
So at that point, do you recommend putting in as much
as many different modalities?
Speaking to the cop?
Grab him by the shoulder, lethim move your arms.
Flail about convinced this copthat you didn't run that stop.
(09:07):
Sign why you're going tobelieve me or you're lying eyes.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
He will believe his lying eyes.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I don't know.
I thought it might work.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Well, you know, suppose your wife comes up to
you and she says the childrenhave been misbehaving dear.
All right, that's a certaininput, right?
What if she comes up to you andshe's like purple with rage and
her arms and legs are flailingabout and she goes the children
have been misbehaving all daylong.
(09:38):
What is a more impactfulmessage in your nervous system?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
The flailing about in ducking shoes and other
household objects.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Yes, yes, so it is actually quite simple If you
talk to somebody and just givethem words remember the Bee Gees
had their only words.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
But words are all.
Yeah, take your love away.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
It's only when it's only words, it's not a complete
communication.
So talk to somebody and say tothem here's what I want to say
to you, and say it just in words.
Notice their response.
The big thing in NLP was noticethe response you get.
People used to say to me do youever work with the deaf and the
blind?
And I used to say all the time,all the time some of them not
(10:37):
yet diagnosed.
So when you look at somebody andyou give them a message and
they do not get, that aha moment, chances are good.
Your communication was afailure and of course, it's all
their fault, right, yeah,clearly clearly, clearly,
especially, especially withcouples, especially with couples
, oh yeah.
(10:58):
No fault communication.
Well, in there, in theirattempts to be like civil to one
another, they'll sit anddiscuss things as if they were
having tea in in Great Britainand you know the the better
moral.
Well, I would appreciate ifyou'd refrain from doing that,
dear and and in her responses.
Well, I'm pleased that you canmention it to me.
(11:18):
It's, it's, I'll do.
I'll do what I can't To make acomplete communication for your
experiment and for our listeningaudience.
Say this something important tosomebody.
Notice chances are good they'renot going to respond.
Get closer to them, turn purpleand change your tone of voice.
Just you clean, you'll justarticulate wildly and notice
(11:42):
they will get an aha moment andyou can see it right before the
fist impacts your the bridge ofyour nose setting that aside,
that's your learning on your end.
Okay, so many people who say Itold him a thousand times.
Yeah, you have told him athousand times and you've been
(12:04):
ineffective in communication athousand times.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
It's time to do something a little different so
that it would seem that oneimportant part of this knowledge
would be Noticing what theother person's main modality of
communication is.
So, given that you have workedwith the, the deaf and the blind
(12:29):
on numerous occasions, however,being people that can have full
vision and full auditorycapabilities, how did, how,
could one Notice, since theydon't already?
I know, I don't how help us,doctor, help us?
(12:49):
How do we?
How do we know what otherpeople are?
What's gonna work with someone?
Just Pile on and do everythingfrom?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Yeah, pylon, doing well.
Your first, you know, yourfirst hunch is to slap them.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Right yeah, kinesthetic right now.
You feel it Okay?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yeah, slap them and across the face and scream at
them.
And so you, I, you know, you'vegot visual kinesthetic and and
an auditory so Start just notice, you know, when people are
distressed they willcharacteristically look down and
into the right, so People willnot be noticing what's going on
(13:28):
for the other person.
Much of the time.
They'll be overloaded withtheir own you know feelings and
they won't be paying attentionto the person.
I had a.
I had a friend whose name wasJoanne and she was a delightful
person.
Her father was an ogre of somesort and he was mean to
everybody in the family.
Her mother committed suicide byBlowing her brains out in the
(13:52):
bedroom and which is aninteresting way of saying what
Not tonight, dear.
Yeah, I have a headache.
I mean this.
I mean this is real people.
And her sister committedsuicide.
She tried to Cut her wrist andwhen that didn't work, she hung
herself in the closet.
She had one brother who was ina mental institution and another
(14:13):
brother was just an out and outalcoholic and I, you know, I
was absolutely enamored with her, having very little experience
in the real world.
But you know, here's the pointhold on.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
So this was someone that that you met in years past,
and you're interested in them,romantic basis of sorts, and but
you didn't know any of thisbackground.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Well, when I found out, you know, I still didn't
understand the significance ofit.
We'll talk about thesignificance of stuff in a
minute.
But I didn't notice, and sheused to.
She was very visual.
I used to call her two eyes anapopsicle stick.
She was skinny and she, andwhen she would get stressed her
eyes would roll back in her head.
(15:02):
She would look straight up inthe air and go this is what I
get to see, this is what I getto see, whoa, whoa.
So she was very, what, veryvisual, apparently.
Yeah, so whenever she'd getstressed, you would go to her
primary Representational system,right, and mine is auditory.
(15:26):
So I'd want to talk about itand she didn't care.
She'd say, well, I, I see whatI see.
And I say, well, let's talk.
And She'd say, well, it doesn'tlook good for me.
And I say, well, you're notlistening to me.
So, like two ships and passingin the night, our communication
was hampered, primarily, tobegin with.
(15:47):
You know, auditory, joe, andVisual the gal, and we just, you
know, didn't work and on top ofit, in the communication we
didn't have this insight intocommunication.
You want to communicate?
Pause, take a deep breath,identify what you want to say,
what you want them to understand, and then say it to them and
(16:10):
mark it out also, either tonallyor with increased volume, or
reach over and wave your hand infront of their eyes or shake
their shoulder.
But do more than one sensoryinput system.
Do visual, auditory,kinesthetic or olfactory,
(16:32):
gustatory, muscle memory orvestibular balance, or do as
many of those as you can andmake it as much of a complete
experience for them as you cando it.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Got it.
Okay, we're about halfwaythrough.
I want to just say real quickif you like what you're hearing,
you want to learn more, pleasevisit optimalhumanexperiencecom.
Optimalhumanexperiencecom.
Go visit the website.
There's a lot more of theirvideos, more podcasts, all kinds
of stuff.
Now, going back to your, do asmany as you can, as many as you
(17:11):
can.
We already kind of talked about, okay, how do we determine what
the other person's primarymodality is.
You, I don't know.
Pay attention.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Well, first, of all, if they're highly visual,
they'll use their eyes.
They'll put their eyes up andleft and upright, and up left
and left and right, and they'llbe trying to picture what it is
that you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Okay, so when they're looking up either to the left
or to the right, that's a visualthey're in their visual part of
their brain and creating apicture of what it is they're
thinking about or talking about.
I see, hey, I see what you'resaying.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yeah, sure.
So if their eyes, they keeptheir eyes level about at the
same place that you would use atelephone, they are primarily
auditory and they'll, and theywill and they'll have they'll
put their hand gesture rightabout where they would be
holding a telephone.
(18:14):
They'll put their hand on theirchin and they'll put their hand
near their ear, because they'reauditory, primarily auditory.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Okay, and so if their eyes, instead of looking up
either to the left or the right,or like the gal Joanne you were
talking about, who lookedstraight up this is what I get
to see If, if, instead of that,their, their eyes are moving on
a level plane, like looking,like trying to see their ear,
looking at this ear or that ear,then that's indication of their
(18:44):
primary modality is auditory.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Auditory.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Okay, all right now.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
The third distinction is an abnormally organized
right-handed individual.
If they're accessing feelings,kinesthesia, they will
characteristically look downinto the right.
Does your?
Do you have a cat in your house?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
No, do not.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Where's the last cat that you remember touching?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Recently I took care of some cats when their owner
was on a trip, and that was Idon't know a few weeks ago.
All right, what color were they?
The cat was kind of a dark graywith a dappled looking coat,
long, long hair.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Did you pick it up?
Did you pick it up?
I did, and was it?
Was it heavy?
Did it weigh a lot, or was it?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, huge.
It was one of those main mainkoon cats which they, I guess
they get the size of a blackbear, which would not probably
win in a fight with a grizzlybear.
But that's a whole differentconversation.
Yeah, it was big, big cat.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Well, so I'm looking at you.
You put your eyes up and leftand right.
You did not access kinesthesiaand I'm kind of surprised at
that, but I have to just simplypay attention, all right, have
you had a disagreement with anyperson in your family as of late
(20:18):
?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Oh, I never disagree with anyone.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
And were there any feelings associated with that?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yes, yes there we go, yeah, and you listen to the
tone of voice thing, you'll gooh, I never had any feeling, any
disagreement with anybody.
I say, well, there are anyfeelings associated with that?
Well, yes, I guess so.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Oh, I suppose, and just so listeners realize, joe
and I can see each other.
We're on video.
You can't see it.
This is just auditory for youguys, but that's why he's making
fun of me.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Go ahead All right.
Well, the bottom line is toanswer you know, you have visual
, auditory kinesthetic, you haveolfactory, gastritory,
vestibular muscle movement, each.
The more input you can put intothis, the more they're going to
get out of it in terms ofcommunication.
The second part of our storywas my story personally was I
(21:22):
was invited to be a physician tothe Royal Family of Dubai and I
was 27 years of age and I didnot know the significance of
that.
I was freshly out ofChiropractic College.
It was during the era when Nixonhad returned from China and he
(21:45):
brought all these Chinesephysicians with him and they
brought traditional Chinesemedicine, tcm.
So I studied then I studiedacupuncture and herbs and all
the rest of that, and I was thenew kid on the block, the hot
Chat, and I was in SyracuseUniversity area.
I had a office up in Syracuseand In comes the head of the
(22:06):
English Department of SyracuseUniversity, nancy Sharp.
Dr Nancy Sharp, and she saysI'm sick and I've been to a
million doctors and nobody canhelp me.
Will you give it a shot?
I said one million doctors onemillion doc.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Was there any?
Speaker 3 (22:22):
I Never.
You know, I never on over.
You know, I never exaggerate.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
There's not the least bit of hyperbole here.
One million doctors.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
There's low purply.
But she tried all these doctors, nothing worked.
I gave her some Chinese herbsand like about sure she got
better.
She sang my praises to herhusband, dr Roger sharp Roger,
and he was in the chemistrydepartment there in Syracuse, so
he wasn't getting well, he wassick.
So little acupunctures andChinese herbs and again he got
(22:54):
better.
And they said we have a friendnamed Margo for ronto bedrawn.
She's head of the MiddleEastern studies in Hamilton
College, remember, named afterAlexander Hamilton.
All right okay so he comes sick,fix her up, no problem.
She says I want you to workwith my husband.
(23:15):
His name is Ali bedran.
He's going blind.
So in comes, ali bedran.
Little acupuncture, chinesemedicine, does great, gets his
site repaired.
He's doing fabulous.
He said to me I want to take youto the kingdom of Dubai, the
kingdom of Qatar, and you'll bethe head that, one of the
physicians, one of many, butnonetheless one of the
(23:37):
physicians to their Royal family.
Qatar or Dubai, which was it?
It was Qatar, qatar.
Okay, yeah, so it's down thestreet from Dubai.
Yeah, right, just the sameblock.
Anyways, there he went, theyhave all of our money because
they sold us their oil.
So he, I said to him, do I geta harem?
He said no harem.
(23:59):
I said no harem, no deal.
And the point I'm trying to makewas did I understand the
significance, at the ripe oldage of 27, of what that could
have meant to my life?
They wanted to fly me to Qatar,where I would have.
I would have probably gotten myhead chopped off because I
would have started spoutingstuff about Chalmers, jefferson
(24:21):
and all men are created equaland Unless you own, like the oil
underneath the, you know thecountry of Qatar, in which case
you're not as equal as everybodyelse.
You're a lot more equal.
But I didn't understand thesignificance a Lot of times.
You know you don't understandthe significance.
At my advanced age I Was at a Iget together and one guy said I
(24:46):
was doing NLP and I said, ohyeah, I did, I know P.
Back in the day, another onesaid, well, I did est, air heart
seminar training.
I said, yeah, I did est too.
And this other guy said, well,I did life spring training.
I said, yeah, I was in on thatand I had been.
I had been flirting with thislittle black girl and she turned
to me and she said how the hellold are you anyways?
And the point is you don'tunderstand the significance.
(25:11):
First of all, miscommunicationis the rule rather than the
exception.
Okay, when two people gettogether.
One will be talking about theirfeelings, the other will be
talking about things don't looktoo good and another one will
say I can't hear either of you.
Right On top of it, they'recommunicating in only one, one
modality.
They will be talking and that'sit.
(25:33):
So the chances of a meaningfulcommunication getting through
are non-existent and, on top ofit, nobody understands the
significance of what's going onbecause they're not old enough.
When you get to my age, peoplesay to me how come you know?
You know all this stuff?
I say I'm old enough to be myown grandfather and that has
(25:55):
helped me immensely because Ihave judgment based on years and
years of experience.
I don't fight with idiots,which was one of my past time,
for many years.
I don't get in trouble with thelaw, which I used to think we
were a free nation and you couldactually like a free individual
.
I don't do any that stuffanymore.
I have wisdom which makes yourisk adverse, and you know a few
(26:16):
things.
When I watch TV and I watchthese groups get together, they
will talk people in their early20s or 30s.
I have doctorate levelunderstanding in in a number of
fields and I consider myselfhorribly uneducated.
My greek, my latin very poor.
My world history, my, mymolecular biology could be a lot
(26:40):
better.
And I look at people and youknow they have A high school
education.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
A full 18 minutes worth of of a of higher
education.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Exactly, and they have next to no life experience.
So they have no education andno life experience and they can
barely read and write their ownname and they're go out there in
the wild kingdom trying to dosomething meaningful.
Well, good luck on that.
Who is the head of one of thesegroups?
Said to a woman you like a manwith confidence, right?
She said, yeah, they have tohave confidence.
(27:13):
He said, yeah, confidence isimportant.
Well, there's a lostperformative there Confidence in
that he can do what.
I mean, does he just strutaround like a cry, you know,
like a rooster being confident.
He's looking confident.
Can you do anything?
No, can you know anything?
No, but you're confidentnonetheless.
I'm confident about it.
(27:33):
Yeah.
So the meaning, thesignificance, the importance you
first of all have to have ameaningful communication in at
least two sensory modalities,right, mm-hmm, and they have to
match up.
And then somebody starts to getthem the it's, they start to
grok that, they get it.
(27:54):
And then the other side of it.
I was at a place where a fellowPut me in touch with a man
named Christopher andChristopher apparently had a
contact In a publishing companyand they wanted to meet with me.
Well, christopher was dressedmostly in goth and I couldn't
take him seriously.
He looked like a complete fool.
(28:15):
And later on I found like 20years later, I found out that
this meeting had tremendousSignificance.
I didn't know that at the time.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
I thought it was one idea, and introducing me to
another idiot.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
How did I know?
So you have to first of all getit and then, second of all, you
have to get the significance ofit.
Then you have a communication.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Okay, I'll give you a name.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
A question.
So how does the average JoeSchmo on the street, without
years and years and years anddecades of experience, move
toward grasping the significanceof communications, especially
when most of them are in onemodality only?
(29:03):
So it's not a clearcommunication, it's a
miscommunication.
What's some practical advice,or is there any?
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Yeah, take my seminar .
Other than that, it's hopeless.
I mean it's utterly hopeless.
I see people argue and they getmarried and they argue in the
same mismatched modalities for30 or 40 years and there's no,
this is not impossible.
It's difficult if you don'tknow what's going on.
(29:32):
But if you don't have thisinformation, you know, when you
try to impress upon something tosomebody, first of all just
don't use just words.
Remember the Bee Gees?
They're only words, but wordsare all we have.
It's not just words, it'sgestures, it's tone of voice and
(29:54):
if you have the permission todo so, reach over and shake
their shoulder as you talk tothem.
Years ago I was teachinganchoring to some group and
there was a gallon there.
She anchored on my knee andlater on she was trying to tell
me something and I just didn'tget it.
She reached over and grabbedthe anchor and shook my leg.
(30:18):
The anchor was near my knee andimmediately I got what she was
trying to tell me.
If you do not have redundancyover and over again and the
right perceptual modality andget them to get it right, so
(30:40):
that may mean something to them.
And then you have to check andmake sure that they have some
significance to it and ifsomebody comes, brings you
somebody dressed in goth who'sgot important information you
probably wouldn't know thatoffhand and you know you have
the meaning of yourcommunication is what the
(31:01):
response you get.
That was like a big thing inNLP.
If you give a communication andsomebody just sits there like a
bump on a log, you didn'tcommunicate and it's up to you.
If you want to communicate,it's up to you to communicate.
Reach over and shake theirshoulder, get in their face,
make sure that they number oneget it, number two get the
(31:23):
significance of it.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Okay, then that's our time for episode 12 of the
optimal human experience with DrJoseph Deruzo.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
And they all get communications through time.
Do you get it?
Do you get?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
it.
Yeah, I get it All right.
You got it.
Okay.
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
This has been the Optimal Human Experience Podcast
with Dr Joseph Deruzo.
For the latest videos andcourses, visit
OptimalHumanExperiencecom.
Join us next time for theOptimal Human Experience Podcast
with Dr Joseph Deruzo.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
You know, there's something to be said for that
whole concept of being anapprentice, Learning things from
an apprenticeship point of view, because you get the
significance of these littletiny things that you do where
you know.
It seems like these days peopledon't take the time to become
experts in anything.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Well, even if they were, how would you know?
You know, I mean, it's allwords now.
There's no experience.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
There's no experience .
I do.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Every day I say the apprenticeship program is far
superior.
You've got academics and thenyou apply to it.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, All righty then .
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