December 18, 2023 • 30 mins
Unlock the mysteries of your mind and emotions during this enthralling exploration of neurohormones during Episode 15 of the Optimal Human Experience Podcast. Ever wonder how simple pleasures like a home-cooked meal or the satisfaction of building something with your own hands can trigger such joy? We dive into the science behind serotonin, dopamine, oxytocin, and endorphins, with a special focus on dopamine's influence on our daily quest for happiness and fulfillment. From discussing the thin line between passion and addiction in gamers to the nostalgia of my grandmother's cooking and my father's craftsmanship, we reveal how dopamine shapes our lives. Additionally, we revisit the technique of anchoring, demonstrating how we can steer our emotions towards more rewarding states, all in the pursuit of the Optimal Human Experience™.
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Episode Transcript
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Announcer (00:06):
This is the Optimal Human Experience Podcast with Dr
Joseph DiRuzzo.
To learn more, visitOptimalHumanExperiencecom.
And now.
Dr Joseph DiRuzzo and theOptimal Human Experience Podcast
.
Paul Andrew (00:23):
Welcome to episode 15 of the Optimal Human
Experience Podcast with DrJoseph DiRuzzo.
I'm Paul, andrew, and today,what are we going to talk about,
joe?
Dr Joe (00:37):
We're going to talk about neurohormones serotonin,
adopamine, oxytocin, andendorphins and kephalins.
Paul Andrew (00:47):
I was just about to say that, I was just thinking
that Easy for you to say.
Dr Joe (00:53):
You know, these are big things in the news these days.
People are depressed and theytake drugs that are called
selective serotonin reuptakeinhibitors.
Yes, and what that does is itconcentrates serotonin in the
inner synaptic cleft, and if youdon't have proper balance, if
you don't have the Optimal HumanExperience, the people walk
(01:19):
around and they look so sad.
So I was thinking about theseneurohormones and I decided
let's do a presentation on eachand every one of them, one at a
time, and let's talk aboutdopamine today, and it has to do
with rewards, satisfaction,motivation and dopamine.
(01:39):
If the system is not workingoptimally, people have problems.
Apparently, it's easy to getaddicted to your own dopamine.
People who play computer gamesare constantly looking for a way
to make the bells ring and thebuzzers go off, and so they can
have a reward.
Paul Andrew (01:58):
Do you know, crush that candy, crush that candy,
crush it.
Dr Joe (02:03):
Crush it and they get a reward, and then they go back
for more, and they go back formore, and they go back for more.
And you know, in rats theyfigured out how to put an
electrode in a rat's brain insuch a way that if it touched a
lever it got a littleelectricity into the pleasure
center in the brain.
So you see that, with kidssitting in front of their
(02:25):
computers for hour after hourafter hour.
So I thought, you know, there'spossible that I had a
disturbance in my dopaminesystem.
So I just thought about allright, so how could we rectify
the dopamine system?
Well, first of all we wouldhave to elicit a response that
(02:45):
hopefully would have to do withdopamine secretion.
So I thought about it.
I came up with threeexperiences that I had, but they
were for somebody else.
My little Italian grandmotherused to roll out dough and she
would make it just the rightthickness and she would slice
(03:06):
that dough into noodles and shewould cook the noodles, and then
she cleaned the house and shejust absolutely loved being in
the kitchen.
The kitchen was her domain.
She loved it.
She made all kinds of wonderfulfood and that was like a
dopamine palace for her.
She loved it, and my mother.
(03:26):
She used to love to makeceramics.
In the sixties there was aperiod of time when making
ceramics was a fad and she got akiln and she fired, she made,
poured clay into molds and madecookie jars and salt and pepper
shakers.
I was probably eight or 10years old at the time and I
(03:49):
remember the reward that she got, the reward that she got.
She did this for a reward.
My father was a bit of anengineer and he was a carpenter
and there was a creek that ranbehind our house and the creek
had eroded the bed, the creekbed on one side, and so he got a
(04:13):
bunch of railroad ties.
Railroad ties are big, thickpieces of lumber.
He made a bank, he back filledit in with rock and dirt and he
just had a wonderful timeexercising his dopamine circuit.
So I thought about variousthings and I came up with a few
(04:36):
for myself.
These are individual and Idecided to anchor those.
Now let me let's talk a littlebit about anchoring.
Okay, just just just to review.
Paul Andrew (04:50):
So the your, your thought process here is hey,
there are all these kids outhere, dopamine and adults doing
these video things on theircomputers, their phones, seeking
this dopamine hit afterdopamine, hit after dopamine hit
.
You looked into yourself andthought because I can't imagine
(05:15):
you sitting and playing a videogame for any length of time no,
I don't do that, homie, homie,don't play that.
No, so so so you're thinkingall right, but there's something
here.
And looking for, what you foundwere examples from other
people's lives that you hadexperienced them, getting
(05:38):
extreme satisfaction.
And that's what the dopaminecomes from completing something
or doing something that providesextreme satisfaction.
Is that the idea?
Dr Joe (05:48):
It's satisfaction, it's motivation, it's feelings of
success and if you're if you'regood at modeling, you can look
at a person who's experiencing agiven internal emotional state
and you can hallucinate.
How would I feel if I was thisperson?
How would I feel if I was thisperson experiencing this in this
way?
(06:08):
What would it be like for me?
Paul Andrew (06:12):
to experience that.
So essentially every actionmovie, that's what the action
movie is doing.
Is you're thinking, oh, if Iwere Spider-Man, I would squirt
the web onto that building andswing through?
So you're imagining that thisis you.
Dr Joe (06:30):
And that sells more movies.
I mean the comment most menlead lives of quiet desperation
until they watch Spider-Man andthen, or Thor, they become Thor.
So yeah, you have a library inyour endocrine system of all
these various neurohormones andyou can elicit them and bring
(06:52):
them out.
But let's talk a little bitabout anchoring.
One time John Gender said to me, one of the founders of NLP.
He said you can achieve almostany behavioral gain with
anchoring, kinesthetic anchoringhe was talking about.
So when Pavlov had the dogs inthe laboratory and he put food
in front of them and theysalivated and he rang a bell in
(07:16):
the background, his timing wasjust right.
The dogs were in fullsalivation mode.
Then when he rang the bell,they pop right back into full
salivation mode.
So in order to do a properanchor Pavlovian stimulus
response reflects arc you haveto, number one, elicit the
(07:38):
response.
I got a feeling of satisfactionthinking about my little
Italian grandmother.
I got a feeling of satisfactionthinking about my mom and a
feeling of satisfaction and whatthey were experiencing.
That's eliciting the response.
The stronger the you elicit theresponse, the better you're
going to have in terms ofsuccess.
(07:58):
The second thing is you have toinsert a discrete stimulus.
In Pavlov's laboratory it wasthe ringing of the bell.
And then the third thing is youhave to replicate the stimulus
precisely to get the response.
So Pavlov held the bell threefeet away and four feet off the
(08:24):
floor and he rang the bell fromexactly the same direction and
the dogs.
Then that would constitute agood anchor and you can use that
.
You can use the ringing of thebell.
One of the best things that Iuse and help people with is I
say get ready to hold your thumb, get ready to squeeze your
(08:45):
thumb.
The thumb has got a hugerepresentation neurologically in
the brain.
So I'll say get a feeling ofbeing happy.
Once they get into that feelingof being happy, I have them
squeeze their thumb and hold itand then I say let your thumb go
before you get out of thefeeling of happiness.
(09:07):
Why, you want the timing to beright.
You want them to get into thefeeling of happiness.
Squeeze their thumb, let thatsqueeze go before they get out
of the feeling, so that you havea discrete identifier.
So all right.
So get a feeling of a time whenyou felt motivated, successful.
(09:27):
You know you've been playingvideo games and you won.
Paul Andrew (09:32):
I crushed the candy .
I crushed the candy.
Dr Joe (09:35):
And you get that feeling , squeeze your thumb and let go.
You have identified, you makeyou would make a diagram of a
plateau before, during and thenafter, and make sure you squeeze
your thumb while you're fullyin that emotional state.
Okay, all right.
(09:55):
And then the for dopamine.
It's feelings of motivation,satisfaction.
It's a very powerful hormone.
Serotonin is more abouthappiness and dopamine is more
about accomplishment and success.
So what I did for myself andI've had people say to me you're
(10:17):
never satisfied, you're neversatisfied.
Well, you can take that as acompliment, but you can also
take it as a less than optimalfunctioning of the dopamine
circuit.
So I got a good anchor fordopamine and then I put my head
down and I put my arms up nearmy face I assumed the prenatal
(10:38):
pattern took a deep breath, letit out and fired off the anchor
for dopamine secretion.
And I can tell you it justgives me a tremendous feeling of
satisfaction.
But it seemed to take an edgeoff of my personality.
I have in the past always beenstriving, striving, striving,
(11:02):
striving, striving, tremendousmotivation, but I did not ever
really have a sense of success.
I've had people say to me well,you should do so and so, and
I'd say, well, I'm not quiteready yet, and they say you're
the most accomplished person weknow in this category, but I
didn't have an adequate feelingof success.
Now I believe that with thistechnique I have developed a
(11:26):
more optimal function of mydopamine circuit so that I can
feel success.
I can feel satisfaction, I canfeel motivation and it's a good,
healthy feeling.
It's I'm feeling dopamine andI'm feeling it all in a good way
.
Does that make sense to you?
Paul Andrew (11:44):
Yeah, and so and so the process was you set for
each of the situations that youremembered, your grandmother
with the homemade, handmade,hand cut spaghetti your mother
with, and she went sounds likeshe went full bore with this.
I mean she had her own kiln.
(12:05):
She had all of the stuff andshe's doing all of this stuff at
home and this is her source ofextreme happiness.
So she saw this, she made shemade great big cookie jars.
Dr Joe (12:16):
You know they were probably a foot tall and 12
inches across.
She made Christmas trees thatyou could put a light inside and
it had little holes and you putlittle plastic stars in the
holes.
I mean she made a prior tuck,salt and pepper shakers, all
kinds of stuff.
It was about 1965, I'd say or1960 ish.
(12:38):
It was a fan and women wentcrazy over it.
They opened ceramic shops andshe was right in there doing
ceramic.
Paul Andrew (12:45):
She loved it, she loved it, you saw this, and so
you.
You brought this emotionalstate back, and at the peak of
that emotional state, you wereusing the thumb as an anchor for
setting the anchor on these.
Dr Joe (13:00):
Yes, same thing with them.
Paul Andrew (13:02):
Same thing with your father.
So you have these threeseparate instances that brought
this extreme sense ofsatisfaction and reward.
Dr Joe (13:14):
And then you said you went into the prenatal position
in the prenatal state and, like,just imagined yourself Floating
gently in the, in the, in the,in the amniotic fluid, and I
fired off the anchor and myexperiences I have just it, it,
it healed.
It was a healing, and I don'tusually use that word.
(13:36):
My mother had, you know, aterrible sense of not being
satisfied.
But here's a question for you.
Imagine a person is prenatallittle embryo floating in the
amniotic fluid and they are notreceiving enough glucose.
Their mother has gottendistracted, she's not eating,
she's watching TV or she'smaking ceramics.
Paul Andrew (13:57):
She's made whatever , whatever.
Dr Joe (13:59):
And and so this little embryo sends a signal up the in,
up the umbilical cord, says Mom, send me some glucose, send me
some to eat.
Paul Andrew (14:07):
Hey.
Dr Joe (14:07):
Ma, what happens if this , if the, if she is paying
attention to something else, andthat cry for a little nutrition
is goes unheeded?
Well, somebody's not too happy.
Well, that lead us to a senseof frustration.
How about if there is notenough Oxygen in the blood?
(14:30):
It's the less than the optimallevel, and a little signal is
sent up the umbilical cord.
Mom, take a deep breath, movearound a little bit.
I've got blood stagnation downhere in.
The cry for a little moreoxygen goes unheeded.
Would that person tend todevelop a set point for dopamine
?
That was less than optimal.
Paul Andrew (14:54):
Okay.
So what you're saying is thereare set points for well really
we were discussing earlierreally for just about anything,
but especially emotional statesor even physical state, there's
some set point.
That's the.
That's where you're buildingfrom.
So the embryo wants some.
(15:16):
Hey, ma, send me some glucose.
And she's busy Making herceramics and doesn't eat, and
and the baby's like okay, I'mnot too happy here.
Dr Joe (15:27):
What happens to the reward.
You know the baby attempted todo something and did not receive
a reward.
That will tend to establish aset point, and if it occurs in
blood glucose and it occurs inblood oxygen levels, that seems
to me to be an ideal situationto develop a disturbance in the
(15:47):
dopamine system.
Paul Andrew (15:49):
It makes perfect sense.
Okay, we're about halfwaythrough about 15 minutes in this
.
If you like what you're hearing, you want to learn more, please
visit Optimalh uman experience.
com.
That's optimal human experience.
com.
There's videos on there.
You'll see the latest courseofferings, all of that kind of
(16:11):
stuff.
I, however, right now want toget rewarded by getting back
into this discussion aboutdopamine, because Now it seems
like what you did with yourprocess, with your memories of
your mother and your grandmotherand your father and other
things you've done, that you'dfelt a sense of satisfaction by
(16:34):
using the prenatal technique,imagining yourself floating in
the amniotic fluid, firing offthose anchors.
It shifted your currentexperience.
Did I hear that right?
Dr Joe (16:50):
It is the darndest thing .
You know, we talk about setpoints.
But you have a person who's 65years old and I'll say to them
you know what's your biggestproblem?
They'll say I feeling feelingsof inadequacy, or I don't feel
I'm adequately Rewarded, or I'malways dissatisfied.
And I'll say, all right, well,it's probably something having
(17:12):
to do with your prenatalexperience.
Put your head down and let'ssee if we can retrieve a
prenatal memory.
And of course they go no, thatwas 60 years ago, that was, that
was a lie.
I've forgotten all of it.
I can't remember that.
I'll say, all right, well, putyour head down and try it
anyways.
And they go well, all right,but this is crazy, it's not
gonna work.
I know it's not gonna work.
The mini.
(17:32):
And they, the minute they puttheir head down and lowered
their head so that their eyes gobelow the horizon, they'll go
oh, my mother doesn't want thepregnancy and she's in denial
and she's not thinking about meand it's in it.
And that is a set point forreport.
Deprivation sickness.
Report deprivation syndrome.
(17:52):
They develop the complexgeneralization inside of the
deepest Levels of the nervoussystem, way down in the
reptilian brain the thalamus,the hypothalamus, the brain stem
, the lenticular nucleus, theamygdala, all of those
phylogenetic, ancient, ancient,ancient Neurological structures,
and they'll get the complexgeneralization that I'm not
(18:16):
wanted.
And and if the mother is reallyin denial about being pregnant,
they'll get they'll.
That is their set point.
They will go through lifefeeling like they're not wanted.
So one of the easiest ways todeal with this Is to reset that
(18:37):
set point Mm-hmm.
And one of the ways I'll do itis I'll say tell me, I'm not
supposed to be here.
That's one of the common onesMm-hmm, I'm not supposed to be
here.
And they'll say, oh, I'm notsupposed to be it.
They'll cry.
People will cry, especially ifthey're really into the emotions
that they were experiencing wayback During that, that period
of their life, the prenatalperiod, and they'll say I'm not
(18:59):
supposed to be here.
And I'll say say it three times, right, to convince your
mechanism.
They'll say I'm not supposed tobe here, I'm not supposed to be
here, I'm not supposed to behere.
And then I say Say, but as longas I'm here, I'm going to have
a wonderful time.
And they'll say a Big sigh willcome out as they blow off
(19:21):
carbon dioxide and thesympathetic and the
Parasympathetic nervous systemsbegin to normalize and they'll
say as long as I'm here, I'mgoing to have a wonderful time.
I'm not supposed to be here,but as long as I'm here I'm
going to have a wonderful time.
And for many, many, many people,that is a turning point, that
is a pivotal moment and theybegin to accept their, their
(19:45):
humanity, the fact that they'rehere, that they're alive, that
they have a wonderful life or anopportunity To have a wonderful
life.
And for many people you knowpeople talk about Healing.
They're right and this is aform of healing and it's
consistent, reliable.
It is in my experience, if I domy job right, mother nature and
(20:06):
their body will go into ahealing mode and They'll.
They will shake and shiver fora couple minutes and when they
come out of it, they're adifferent person I.
So we have some marvelous toolsthis prenatal re-imprinting is
only one of them butunderstanding pavlovian stimulus
response reflexes and utilizinganchors deliberately to
(20:35):
reeducate your nervous system sothat you become more likely to
experience the optimal humanexperience.
You have good friends, you goafter things and you get them,
you're rewarded, you have status, you have freedom,
self-expression, you haveresources, you have all good
(20:55):
things, you have a balance inyour life, the optimal human
experience.
Paul Andrew (21:02):
And you have to conclude that resetting,
adjusting that set point fordopamine response, for example,
doing that naturally from thatbeginning state, even though
it's imagined, even though it's60, 70 years later, or 20 or 30
(21:25):
or however long it's been sincethe person was prenatal, it's
got to be better than crushingthe candy on the phone.
Dr Joe (21:34):
You know, when all else fails, take thorazine.
You know it won't feel better,you just won't feel as bad.
But, what comes up over andover again in my mind is the
memory of that biker guy who hadall leather and anything.
We did a prenatal session andthen after he said, can I give
(21:55):
you a hug?
That was the last thing Iexpected.
Yeah that was the amazing thingabout the prenatal technique is
the memories.
Whenever we have theopportunity to confirm or deny a
memory, invariably I'll sendpeople.
I'll say who would know whatyour mother was going through at
(22:18):
this time in her life when youwere prenatal?
And they'll say, well, my auntor my uncle or my neighbor, and
they'll go and talk to them andthey'll come back and they will
usually be shaken right to theircore, right to their toenails.
They'll say that is actually.
I had a psychologist say to methis is not a metaphor, this is
not a parable, a simile, a story, and as if this is actually
(22:42):
what happened during thisperson's prenatal experience.
And, remarkable as it is, thematerial, the information is in
there and you can identify andelicit these prenatal memories
and you can alter the complexgeneralizations of physiology
and you end up with the morehappiness and more joy, more
(23:03):
satisfaction in your life, theoptimal human experience.
Paul Andrew (23:07):
Well, and I can, I've said this before you did a
session with one of my daughtersand she related something that
was going on and recounted anargument that I hadn't thought
of and what I think.
She was around 18 or 19 at thetime.
(23:29):
I hadn't thought of it in 18,19 years, but it was an argument
that her mother and I had whenshe was prenatal, around two,
three months old, maybe four,two, three months old.
I remembered the argumentbecause she recounted some of
the specific things that weresaid.
(23:50):
I'm thinking.
I'm thinking, hold on a minute,you weren't there.
Oh yeah, I guess you were thereand it was, you know.
Yet another shocking, shockingexample of okay, I guess there
is maybe something to this stuffhere.
Dr Joe (24:10):
If we take as a formal dogma the prenatal concept, you
know, a sperm meets anunfertilized egg.
They come together, make afertilized ovum that divides
into two cells, four cells,eight cells, 16 cells, and when
it reaches the 32 cell stageit's called a blastula.
The blastula begins to spreadout toward what will be the head
and what will be the feet andimmediately forms the neural
(24:33):
plate.
The first differentiated tissueof the human body is nervous
tissue.
At that point personalitystructure begins to be laid down
as a series of simple Pavlovianstimulus response reflexes, and
all of the problems that wehave later on in life, without
exception, are the end result ofmaladaptive reflexes
(24:55):
established in the prenatalperiod under conditions of
maternal or fetal distress.
And that is roughly the truth.
It seems like we have some kindof extremely primitive
pre-conscious consciousness evenbefore the formation of the
neural plate.
(25:16):
And there's a tremendous amountof research that needs to be
done, but the bottom line isthat the prenatal period and the
early childhood, the prenatalperiod and the early childhood
development, are most, mostinfluence.
They really establish thedirection, the trajectory for
your life.
So prenatal re-imprintinguber-olus.
Paul Andrew (25:42):
Well, when you think about it, you've got these
cells that you started out with.
One cell and it's dividing, andeach of those cells have these
cell receptor sites that arelooking for something to dock in
there.
Okay, neurotransmitters, comeon.
Come on.
Come on.
You want the happy ones or youwant the sad ones?
(26:04):
Well, what do we got?
Announcer (26:05):
Well, mom, and dad are fighting.
Paul Andrew (26:07):
Yeah, what's there?
So there and it's not just thenegative things that are plugged
in at that point.
I mean, with the Wonder Babyprogram that you developed, it's
very possible to create asituation where the baby, the
(26:29):
embryo, has installed the goodneurotransmitters, the happy
feelings, as opposed to I am noone I remember that.
Oh, I remember that.
Oh, my gosh.
Dr Joe (26:49):
So we have a wonderful set of tools and I invite people
to use them and learn and havefun and redesign your life,
reconfigure your life, make yourlife the best that you can make
it, make it the optimal humanexperience for you.
Paul Andrew (27:07):
Yeah, and just from personal experience I go back
to that initial situation wherethe presentation I went to the
guys next to me he's wheezing,sounds like he just came out of
the coal mines in West Virginiawith black lung disease and you
(27:31):
did a little meditation with himand and on my mother, he stops
wheezing, he stops wheezing.
Dr Joe (27:49):
So you know all of these set points.
What goes on inside of thebones when some people become
osteoporotic and getosteoporosis, other people don't
?
What happens when people havekidney failure early in life and
other people don't?
How many of these internal setpoints are there and right for
(28:14):
all these different systems, allthe different systems for all
the different systems.
This is ongoing research thatwe need to do.
Paul Andrew (28:21):
Well, and you know, people poo poo anecdotal
evidence, but when it's youranecdote, it can't get much more
personal than that.
And so if it works for you,then hey, god bless.
Dr Joe (28:39):
You know I haven't had many people who were suicidally
depressed.
I mean I've had not a hugenumber, but every, every one of
them, without exception.
I'll have them.
I will anchor the feeling, havethem put their head down and
they will say my mother andfather don't want this pregnancy
.
And the complex generalizationis things would be better for
(29:02):
everybody if I wasn't here.
And then it's so consistent.
And the amazing thing is, onceyou change that complex
generalization, if they get donecrying and I don't blame them
the least they come out of thisprenatal experience and they're
a different human being with adifferent neuro-psychiatric
history, and then they're freeto live their life without the
(29:26):
haunting suicidal depression andalways in the back, it just
goes away.
Paul Andrew (29:33):
Yeah, yeah, fascinating, and it by gosh.
It just makes sense.
All right, that's that's it forepisode 15 of the optimal human
experience podcast with DrJoseph DiRuzzo.
Live in the flesh.
(29:55):
I'm Paul Andrew, and we'll seeyou next time.
Dr Joe (30:01):
Next time is going to be serotonin serotonin on the
tarmac happiness, happiness,harmony.
Announcer (30:11):
This has been the optimal human experience podcast
with Dr Joseph DiRuzzo.
For the latest videos andcourses, visit
optimalhumanexperiencecom.
Join us next time for theoptimal human experience podcast
with Dr Joseph DiRuzzo.
Okay.
Paul Andrew (30:30):
Hey, um, oh, you know what?
You didn't talk about yoursister in the beat, the
precursor stuff.
Dr Joe (30:41):
We'll catch you next time.
Paul Andrew (30:42):
We'll catch you next time, okay.
This is the Optimal Human Experience Podcast with Dr
Joseph DiRuzzo.
To learn more, visitOptimalHumanExperiencecom.
And now.
Dr Joseph DiRuzzo and theOptimal Human Experience Podcast
.
Paul Andrew (00:23):
Welcome to episode 15 of the Optimal Human
Experience Podcast with DrJoseph DiRuzzo.
I'm Paul, andrew, and today,what are we going to talk about,
joe?
Dr Joe (00:37):
We're going to talk about neurohormones serotonin,
adopamine, oxytocin, andendorphins and kephalins.
Paul Andrew (00:47):
I was just about to say that, I was just thinking
that Easy for you to say.
Dr Joe (00:53):
You know, these are big things in the news these days.
People are depressed and theytake drugs that are called
selective serotonin reuptakeinhibitors.
Yes, and what that does is itconcentrates serotonin in the
inner synaptic cleft, and if youdon't have proper balance, if
you don't have the Optimal HumanExperience, the people walk
(01:19):
around and they look so sad.
So I was thinking about theseneurohormones and I decided
let's do a presentation on eachand every one of them, one at a
time, and let's talk aboutdopamine today, and it has to do
with rewards, satisfaction,motivation and dopamine.
(01:39):
If the system is not workingoptimally, people have problems.
Apparently, it's easy to getaddicted to your own dopamine.
People who play computer gamesare constantly looking for a way
to make the bells ring and thebuzzers go off, and so they can
have a reward.
Paul Andrew (01:58):
Do you know, crush that candy, crush that candy,
crush it.
Dr Joe (02:03):
Crush it and they get a reward, and then they go back
for more, and they go back formore, and they go back for more.
And you know, in rats theyfigured out how to put an
electrode in a rat's brain insuch a way that if it touched a
lever it got a littleelectricity into the pleasure
center in the brain.
So you see that, with kidssitting in front of their
(02:25):
computers for hour after hourafter hour.
So I thought, you know, there'spossible that I had a
disturbance in my dopaminesystem.
So I just thought about allright, so how could we rectify
the dopamine system?
Well, first of all we wouldhave to elicit a response that
(02:45):
hopefully would have to do withdopamine secretion.
So I thought about it.
I came up with threeexperiences that I had, but they
were for somebody else.
My little Italian grandmotherused to roll out dough and she
would make it just the rightthickness and she would slice
(03:06):
that dough into noodles and shewould cook the noodles, and then
she cleaned the house and shejust absolutely loved being in
the kitchen.
The kitchen was her domain.
She loved it.
She made all kinds of wonderfulfood and that was like a
dopamine palace for her.
She loved it, and my mother.
(03:26):
She used to love to makeceramics.
In the sixties there was aperiod of time when making
ceramics was a fad and she got akiln and she fired, she made,
poured clay into molds and madecookie jars and salt and pepper
shakers.
I was probably eight or 10years old at the time and I
(03:49):
remember the reward that she got, the reward that she got.
She did this for a reward.
My father was a bit of anengineer and he was a carpenter
and there was a creek that ranbehind our house and the creek
had eroded the bed, the creekbed on one side, and so he got a
(04:13):
bunch of railroad ties.
Railroad ties are big, thickpieces of lumber.
He made a bank, he back filledit in with rock and dirt and he
just had a wonderful timeexercising his dopamine circuit.
So I thought about variousthings and I came up with a few
(04:36):
for myself.
These are individual and Idecided to anchor those.
Now let me let's talk a littlebit about anchoring.
Okay, just just just to review.
Paul Andrew (04:50):
So the your, your thought process here is hey,
there are all these kids outhere, dopamine and adults doing
these video things on theircomputers, their phones, seeking
this dopamine hit afterdopamine, hit after dopamine hit
.
You looked into yourself andthought because I can't imagine
(05:15):
you sitting and playing a videogame for any length of time no,
I don't do that, homie, homie,don't play that.
No, so so so you're thinkingall right, but there's something
here.
And looking for, what you foundwere examples from other
people's lives that you hadexperienced them, getting
(05:38):
extreme satisfaction.
And that's what the dopaminecomes from completing something
or doing something that providesextreme satisfaction.
Is that the idea?
Dr Joe (05:48):
It's satisfaction, it's motivation, it's feelings of
success and if you're if you'regood at modeling, you can look
at a person who's experiencing agiven internal emotional state
and you can hallucinate.
How would I feel if I was thisperson?
How would I feel if I was thisperson experiencing this in this
way?
(06:08):
What would it be like for me?
Paul Andrew (06:12):
to experience that.
So essentially every actionmovie, that's what the action
movie is doing.
Is you're thinking, oh, if Iwere Spider-Man, I would squirt
the web onto that building andswing through?
So you're imagining that thisis you.
Dr Joe (06:30):
And that sells more movies.
I mean the comment most menlead lives of quiet desperation
until they watch Spider-Man andthen, or Thor, they become Thor.
So yeah, you have a library inyour endocrine system of all
these various neurohormones andyou can elicit them and bring
(06:52):
them out.
But let's talk a little bitabout anchoring.
One time John Gender said to me, one of the founders of NLP.
He said you can achieve almostany behavioral gain with
anchoring, kinesthetic anchoringhe was talking about.
So when Pavlov had the dogs inthe laboratory and he put food
in front of them and theysalivated and he rang a bell in
(07:16):
the background, his timing wasjust right.
The dogs were in fullsalivation mode.
Then when he rang the bell,they pop right back into full
salivation mode.
So in order to do a properanchor Pavlovian stimulus
response reflects arc you haveto, number one, elicit the
(07:38):
response.
I got a feeling of satisfactionthinking about my little
Italian grandmother.
I got a feeling of satisfactionthinking about my mom and a
feeling of satisfaction and whatthey were experiencing.
That's eliciting the response.
The stronger the you elicit theresponse, the better you're
going to have in terms ofsuccess.
(07:58):
The second thing is you have toinsert a discrete stimulus.
In Pavlov's laboratory it wasthe ringing of the bell.
And then the third thing is youhave to replicate the stimulus
precisely to get the response.
So Pavlov held the bell threefeet away and four feet off the
(08:24):
floor and he rang the bell fromexactly the same direction and
the dogs.
Then that would constitute agood anchor and you can use that
.
You can use the ringing of thebell.
One of the best things that Iuse and help people with is I
say get ready to hold your thumb, get ready to squeeze your
(08:45):
thumb.
The thumb has got a hugerepresentation neurologically in
the brain.
So I'll say get a feeling ofbeing happy.
Once they get into that feelingof being happy, I have them
squeeze their thumb and hold itand then I say let your thumb go
before you get out of thefeeling of happiness.
(09:07):
Why, you want the timing to beright.
You want them to get into thefeeling of happiness.
Squeeze their thumb, let thatsqueeze go before they get out
of the feeling, so that you havea discrete identifier.
So all right.
So get a feeling of a time whenyou felt motivated, successful.
(09:27):
You know you've been playingvideo games and you won.
Paul Andrew (09:32):
I crushed the candy .
I crushed the candy.
Dr Joe (09:35):
And you get that feeling , squeeze your thumb and let go.
You have identified, you makeyou would make a diagram of a
plateau before, during and thenafter, and make sure you squeeze
your thumb while you're fullyin that emotional state.
Okay, all right.
(09:55):
And then the for dopamine.
It's feelings of motivation,satisfaction.
It's a very powerful hormone.
Serotonin is more abouthappiness and dopamine is more
about accomplishment and success.
So what I did for myself andI've had people say to me you're
(10:17):
never satisfied, you're neversatisfied.
Well, you can take that as acompliment, but you can also
take it as a less than optimalfunctioning of the dopamine
circuit.
So I got a good anchor fordopamine and then I put my head
down and I put my arms up nearmy face I assumed the prenatal
(10:38):
pattern took a deep breath, letit out and fired off the anchor
for dopamine secretion.
And I can tell you it justgives me a tremendous feeling of
satisfaction.
But it seemed to take an edgeoff of my personality.
I have in the past always beenstriving, striving, striving,
(11:02):
striving, striving, tremendousmotivation, but I did not ever
really have a sense of success.
I've had people say to me well,you should do so and so, and
I'd say, well, I'm not quiteready yet, and they say you're
the most accomplished person weknow in this category, but I
didn't have an adequate feelingof success.
Now I believe that with thistechnique I have developed a
(11:26):
more optimal function of mydopamine circuit so that I can
feel success.
I can feel satisfaction, I canfeel motivation and it's a good,
healthy feeling.
It's I'm feeling dopamine andI'm feeling it all in a good way
.
Does that make sense to you?
Paul Andrew (11:44):
Yeah, and so and so the process was you set for
each of the situations that youremembered, your grandmother
with the homemade, handmade,hand cut spaghetti your mother
with, and she went sounds likeshe went full bore with this.
I mean she had her own kiln.
(12:05):
She had all of the stuff andshe's doing all of this stuff at
home and this is her source ofextreme happiness.
So she saw this, she made shemade great big cookie jars.
Dr Joe (12:16):
You know they were probably a foot tall and 12
inches across.
She made Christmas trees thatyou could put a light inside and
it had little holes and you putlittle plastic stars in the
holes.
I mean she made a prior tuck,salt and pepper shakers, all
kinds of stuff.
It was about 1965, I'd say or1960 ish.
(12:38):
It was a fan and women wentcrazy over it.
They opened ceramic shops andshe was right in there doing
ceramic.
Paul Andrew (12:45):
She loved it, she loved it, you saw this, and so
you.
You brought this emotionalstate back, and at the peak of
that emotional state, you wereusing the thumb as an anchor for
setting the anchor on these.
Dr Joe (13:00):
Yes, same thing with them.
Paul Andrew (13:02):
Same thing with your father.
So you have these threeseparate instances that brought
this extreme sense ofsatisfaction and reward.
Dr Joe (13:14):
And then you said you went into the prenatal position
in the prenatal state and, like,just imagined yourself Floating
gently in the, in the, in the,in the amniotic fluid, and I
fired off the anchor and myexperiences I have just it, it,
it healed.
It was a healing, and I don'tusually use that word.
(13:36):
My mother had, you know, aterrible sense of not being
satisfied.
But here's a question for you.
Imagine a person is prenatallittle embryo floating in the
amniotic fluid and they are notreceiving enough glucose.
Their mother has gottendistracted, she's not eating,
she's watching TV or she'smaking ceramics.
Paul Andrew (13:57):
She's made whatever , whatever.
Dr Joe (13:59):
And and so this little embryo sends a signal up the in,
up the umbilical cord, says Mom, send me some glucose, send me
some to eat.
Paul Andrew (14:07):
Hey.
Dr Joe (14:07):
Ma, what happens if this , if the, if she is paying
attention to something else, andthat cry for a little nutrition
is goes unheeded?
Well, somebody's not too happy.
Well, that lead us to a senseof frustration.
How about if there is notenough Oxygen in the blood?
(14:30):
It's the less than the optimallevel, and a little signal is
sent up the umbilical cord.
Mom, take a deep breath, movearound a little bit.
I've got blood stagnation downhere in.
The cry for a little moreoxygen goes unheeded.
Would that person tend todevelop a set point for dopamine
?
That was less than optimal.
Paul Andrew (14:54):
Okay.
So what you're saying is thereare set points for well really
we were discussing earlierreally for just about anything,
but especially emotional statesor even physical state, there's
some set point.
That's the.
That's where you're buildingfrom.
So the embryo wants some.
(15:16):
Hey, ma, send me some glucose.
And she's busy Making herceramics and doesn't eat, and
and the baby's like okay, I'mnot too happy here.
Dr Joe (15:27):
What happens to the reward.
You know the baby attempted todo something and did not receive
a reward.
That will tend to establish aset point, and if it occurs in
blood glucose and it occurs inblood oxygen levels, that seems
to me to be an ideal situationto develop a disturbance in the
(15:47):
dopamine system.
Paul Andrew (15:49):
It makes perfect sense.
Okay, we're about halfwaythrough about 15 minutes in this
.
If you like what you're hearing, you want to learn more, please
visit Optimalh uman experience.
com.
That's optimal human experience.
com.
There's videos on there.
You'll see the latest courseofferings, all of that kind of
(16:11):
stuff.
I, however, right now want toget rewarded by getting back
into this discussion aboutdopamine, because Now it seems
like what you did with yourprocess, with your memories of
your mother and your grandmotherand your father and other
things you've done, that you'dfelt a sense of satisfaction by
(16:34):
using the prenatal technique,imagining yourself floating in
the amniotic fluid, firing offthose anchors.
It shifted your currentexperience.
Did I hear that right?
Dr Joe (16:50):
It is the darndest thing .
You know, we talk about setpoints.
But you have a person who's 65years old and I'll say to them
you know what's your biggestproblem?
They'll say I feeling feelingsof inadequacy, or I don't feel
I'm adequately Rewarded, or I'malways dissatisfied.
And I'll say, all right, well,it's probably something having
(17:12):
to do with your prenatalexperience.
Put your head down and let'ssee if we can retrieve a
prenatal memory.
And of course they go no, thatwas 60 years ago, that was, that
was a lie.
I've forgotten all of it.
I can't remember that.
I'll say, all right, well, putyour head down and try it
anyways.
And they go well, all right,but this is crazy, it's not
gonna work.
I know it's not gonna work.
The mini.
(17:32):
And they, the minute they puttheir head down and lowered
their head so that their eyes gobelow the horizon, they'll go
oh, my mother doesn't want thepregnancy and she's in denial
and she's not thinking about meand it's in it.
And that is a set point forreport.
Deprivation sickness.
Report deprivation syndrome.
(17:52):
They develop the complexgeneralization inside of the
deepest Levels of the nervoussystem, way down in the
reptilian brain the thalamus,the hypothalamus, the brain stem
, the lenticular nucleus, theamygdala, all of those
phylogenetic, ancient, ancient,ancient Neurological structures,
and they'll get the complexgeneralization that I'm not
(18:16):
wanted.
And and if the mother is reallyin denial about being pregnant,
they'll get they'll.
That is their set point.
They will go through lifefeeling like they're not wanted.
So one of the easiest ways todeal with this Is to reset that
(18:37):
set point Mm-hmm.
And one of the ways I'll do itis I'll say tell me, I'm not
supposed to be here.
That's one of the common onesMm-hmm, I'm not supposed to be
here.
And they'll say, oh, I'm notsupposed to be it.
They'll cry.
People will cry, especially ifthey're really into the emotions
that they were experiencing wayback During that, that period
of their life, the prenatalperiod, and they'll say I'm not
(18:59):
supposed to be here.
And I'll say say it three times, right, to convince your
mechanism.
They'll say I'm not supposed tobe here, I'm not supposed to be
here, I'm not supposed to behere.
And then I say Say, but as longas I'm here, I'm going to have
a wonderful time.
And they'll say a Big sigh willcome out as they blow off
(19:21):
carbon dioxide and thesympathetic and the
Parasympathetic nervous systemsbegin to normalize and they'll
say as long as I'm here, I'mgoing to have a wonderful time.
I'm not supposed to be here,but as long as I'm here I'm
going to have a wonderful time.
And for many, many, many people,that is a turning point, that
is a pivotal moment and theybegin to accept their, their
(19:45):
humanity, the fact that they'rehere, that they're alive, that
they have a wonderful life or anopportunity To have a wonderful
life.
And for many people you knowpeople talk about Healing.
They're right and this is aform of healing and it's
consistent, reliable.
It is in my experience, if I domy job right, mother nature and
(20:06):
their body will go into ahealing mode and They'll.
They will shake and shiver fora couple minutes and when they
come out of it, they're adifferent person I.
So we have some marvelous toolsthis prenatal re-imprinting is
only one of them butunderstanding pavlovian stimulus
response reflexes and utilizinganchors deliberately to
(20:35):
reeducate your nervous system sothat you become more likely to
experience the optimal humanexperience.
You have good friends, you goafter things and you get them,
you're rewarded, you have status, you have freedom,
self-expression, you haveresources, you have all good
(20:55):
things, you have a balance inyour life, the optimal human
experience.
Paul Andrew (21:02):
And you have to conclude that resetting,
adjusting that set point fordopamine response, for example,
doing that naturally from thatbeginning state, even though
it's imagined, even though it's60, 70 years later, or 20 or 30
(21:25):
or however long it's been sincethe person was prenatal, it's
got to be better than crushingthe candy on the phone.
Dr Joe (21:34):
You know, when all else fails, take thorazine.
You know it won't feel better,you just won't feel as bad.
But, what comes up over andover again in my mind is the
memory of that biker guy who hadall leather and anything.
We did a prenatal session andthen after he said, can I give
(21:55):
you a hug?
That was the last thing Iexpected.
Yeah that was the amazing thingabout the prenatal technique is
the memories.
Whenever we have theopportunity to confirm or deny a
memory, invariably I'll sendpeople.
I'll say who would know whatyour mother was going through at
(22:18):
this time in her life when youwere prenatal?
And they'll say, well, my auntor my uncle or my neighbor, and
they'll go and talk to them andthey'll come back and they will
usually be shaken right to theircore, right to their toenails.
They'll say that is actually.
I had a psychologist say to methis is not a metaphor, this is
not a parable, a simile, a story, and as if this is actually
(22:42):
what happened during thisperson's prenatal experience.
And, remarkable as it is, thematerial, the information is in
there and you can identify andelicit these prenatal memories
and you can alter the complexgeneralizations of physiology
and you end up with the morehappiness and more joy, more
(23:03):
satisfaction in your life, theoptimal human experience.
Paul Andrew (23:07):
Well, and I can, I've said this before you did a
session with one of my daughtersand she related something that
was going on and recounted anargument that I hadn't thought
of and what I think.
She was around 18 or 19 at thetime.
(23:29):
I hadn't thought of it in 18,19 years, but it was an argument
that her mother and I had whenshe was prenatal, around two,
three months old, maybe four,two, three months old.
I remembered the argumentbecause she recounted some of
the specific things that weresaid.
(23:50):
I'm thinking.
I'm thinking, hold on a minute,you weren't there.
Oh yeah, I guess you were thereand it was, you know.
Yet another shocking, shockingexample of okay, I guess there
is maybe something to this stuffhere.
Dr Joe (24:10):
If we take as a formal dogma the prenatal concept, you
know, a sperm meets anunfertilized egg.
They come together, make afertilized ovum that divides
into two cells, four cells,eight cells, 16 cells, and when
it reaches the 32 cell stageit's called a blastula.
The blastula begins to spreadout toward what will be the head
and what will be the feet andimmediately forms the neural
(24:33):
plate.
The first differentiated tissueof the human body is nervous
tissue.
At that point personalitystructure begins to be laid down
as a series of simple Pavlovianstimulus response reflexes, and
all of the problems that wehave later on in life, without
exception, are the end result ofmaladaptive reflexes
(24:55):
established in the prenatalperiod under conditions of
maternal or fetal distress.
And that is roughly the truth.
It seems like we have some kindof extremely primitive
pre-conscious consciousness evenbefore the formation of the
neural plate.
(25:16):
And there's a tremendous amountof research that needs to be
done, but the bottom line isthat the prenatal period and the
early childhood, the prenatalperiod and the early childhood
development, are most, mostinfluence.
They really establish thedirection, the trajectory for
your life.
So prenatal re-imprintinguber-olus.
Paul Andrew (25:42):
Well, when you think about it, you've got these
cells that you started out with.
One cell and it's dividing, andeach of those cells have these
cell receptor sites that arelooking for something to dock in
there.
Okay, neurotransmitters, comeon.
Come on.
Come on.
You want the happy ones or youwant the sad ones?
(26:04):
Well, what do we got?
Announcer (26:05):
Well, mom, and dad are fighting.
Paul Andrew (26:07):
Yeah, what's there?
So there and it's not just thenegative things that are plugged
in at that point.
I mean, with the Wonder Babyprogram that you developed, it's
very possible to create asituation where the baby, the
(26:29):
embryo, has installed the goodneurotransmitters, the happy
feelings, as opposed to I am noone I remember that.
Oh, I remember that.
Oh, my gosh.
Dr Joe (26:49):
So we have a wonderful set of tools and I invite people
to use them and learn and havefun and redesign your life,
reconfigure your life, make yourlife the best that you can make
it, make it the optimal humanexperience for you.
Paul Andrew (27:07):
Yeah, and just from personal experience I go back
to that initial situation wherethe presentation I went to the
guys next to me he's wheezing,sounds like he just came out of
the coal mines in West Virginiawith black lung disease and you
(27:31):
did a little meditation with himand and on my mother, he stops
wheezing, he stops wheezing.
Dr Joe (27:49):
So you know all of these set points.
What goes on inside of thebones when some people become
osteoporotic and getosteoporosis, other people don't
?
What happens when people havekidney failure early in life and
other people don't?
How many of these internal setpoints are there and right for
(28:14):
all these different systems, allthe different systems for all
the different systems.
This is ongoing research thatwe need to do.
Paul Andrew (28:21):
Well, and you know, people poo poo anecdotal
evidence, but when it's youranecdote, it can't get much more
personal than that.
And so if it works for you,then hey, god bless.
Dr Joe (28:39):
You know I haven't had many people who were suicidally
depressed.
I mean I've had not a hugenumber, but every, every one of
them, without exception.
I'll have them.
I will anchor the feeling, havethem put their head down and
they will say my mother andfather don't want this pregnancy
.
And the complex generalizationis things would be better for
(29:02):
everybody if I wasn't here.
And then it's so consistent.
And the amazing thing is, onceyou change that complex
generalization, if they get donecrying and I don't blame them
the least they come out of thisprenatal experience and they're
a different human being with adifferent neuro-psychiatric
history, and then they're freeto live their life without the
(29:26):
haunting suicidal depression andalways in the back, it just
goes away.
Paul Andrew (29:33):
Yeah, yeah, fascinating, and it by gosh.
It just makes sense.
All right, that's that's it forepisode 15 of the optimal human
experience podcast with DrJoseph DiRuzzo.
Live in the flesh.
(29:55):
I'm Paul Andrew, and we'll seeyou next time.
Dr Joe (30:01):
Next time is going to be serotonin serotonin on the
tarmac happiness, happiness,harmony.
Announcer (30:11):
This has been the optimal human experience podcast
with Dr Joseph DiRuzzo.
For the latest videos andcourses, visit
optimalhumanexperiencecom.
Join us next time for theoptimal human experience podcast
with Dr Joseph DiRuzzo.
Okay.
Paul Andrew (30:30):
Hey, um, oh, you know what?
You didn't talk about yoursister in the beat, the
precursor stuff.
Dr Joe (30:41):
We'll catch you next time.
Paul Andrew (30:42):
We'll catch you next time, okay.
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