Be the Change: Taking the Lead in Child Welfare in the Global South

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Join us on a transformative journey as we explore the profound shift from orphanage care to family-based support in Sierra Leone and beyond. Featuring insights from George Kulanda, the case management supervisor at the Child Reintegration Center, and David Titus Musa, a senior consultant at the Center, this episode promises a deep dive into the complexities and triumphs of reintegrating children into family environments. From engaging with orphanage leaders to collaborating with governments and civil society organizations, David shares his inspiring transition from the confines of orphanage walls to advocating for family reintegration. Meanwhile, George sheds light on his role in bolstering family ties and ensuring successful reintegration through comprehensive case management.

Moving beyond individual stories, we explore the broader implications of family strengthening and financial literacy programs in Africa. Delving into the challenges caregivers face, we uncover the delicate balance between providing for and nurturing children, while also highlighting innovative research methods used to assess these programs' effectiveness. The episode also brings to life the rich discussions from the Christian Alliance for Orphans Summit, where diverse voices from across the globe, especially from the Global South, are given the platform they deserve. This dialogue is pivotal in reshaping global child welfare conversations and ensuring that care leavers and practitioners can voice their unique perspectives unhindered.

Our journey would be incomplete without emphasizing the irreplaceable value of face-to-face connections in cultures like Sierra Leone, where true understanding and trust are built. Through compelling anecdotes from George and David, we uncover t

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Travel on International Mission, meet local leadership and work alongside them. Exchange knowledge, learn from one another and be open to personal transformation. Step into a 25 year long story of change for children in some of the poorest regions on Earth.

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A bible study for groups and individuals, One Twenty-Seven: The Widow and the Orphan by Dr Andrea Siegel explores the themes of the first chapter of James, and in particular, 1:27. In James, we learn of our duty to the vulnerable in the historical context of the author. Order here or digital download

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Family Empowerment Advocates support the work of family empowerment experts at the Child Reintegration Centre, Sierra Leone.  Your small monthly donation,  prayers, attention & caring is essential. You  advocate for their work to help families bring themselves out of poverty, changing the course of children's lives and lifting up communities. join

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Organize a Rooted in Reality mission experience for your service club, church group, worship team, young adult or adult study. No travel required. Step into the shoes of people in extreme poverty in Sierra Leone, West Africa, Helping Children Worldwide takes you into a world where families are facing impossible choices every day.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Thank you for watching Welcome to Optimistic

(00:31):
Voices Podcast.
I'm your host, laura Horvath.
In this episode I'm going totalk to two gentlemen that I
consider colleagues, but also myfriends, and I don't think it's
exaggerating the point to saythat the work they do makes my
work possible in almost everyway.
In my role as the Director ofPrograms and Global Engagement,
the global engagement piece ofwhat I do is probably the

(00:52):
simplest.
All I do really is share thestories of the work these men
and their co-workers in SierraLeone do every day to reunite
children with their families,strengthen and empower
caregivers and the communitiesin which they live and work and
empower organizations to shifttheir model of care to family
care and advocate tirelessly forchildren to know and grow in

(01:14):
the love of a permanent and safefamily.
Because they're busy actuallydoing the work and because it's
not easy to share these storieswith the world from Sierra Leone
with its challenges, with powerand reliable internet
connectivity, I get to do that,but we talk a lot at HCW and
within the global child welfaresector about how important it is
to bring the local leaders andactors to the tables.

(01:35):
People like me in the globalnorth get to sit at all the time
, and yet I think we're notdoing that as well as we should
be.
Shouldn't at least half of thepeople in these rooms making
decisions and having theseconversations and discussing
best practices be the onesactually doing those practices?
And how would thoseconversations change if we made

(01:56):
more of an effort to includethese and create these
opportunities?
And what could thoseconversations lead to in terms
of care reform for children allover the world?
It's my honor and joy tointroduce these two gentlemen to
you today.
First we have George Kulanda,who is the case management
supervisor over the social workteam at the Child Reintegration

(02:18):
Center in Beausier-Lyon, andwith him is David Titus Moussa,
the senior consultant and leadof a two-person CRC team
providing transition supportservices to orphanages seeking
to change their model of care tofamily care, not just in Sierra
Leone, but in several countriesin Africa.
David and George, welcome tothe show.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Thank you, laura, thanks for having us.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Thanks for being here .
So just full disclosure.
David's been on our podcastbefore.
Please, after you listen tothis episode, please check out
his episode, which is entitledwhy the Move from Orphanages to
Family Homes is an African Ideal, so I'm going to introduce him
first.
David, can you share a bitabout your role at the Child

(03:00):
Reintegration Center in SierraLeone and how you got into this
work?

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, thank you once more, Laura, and I am David
Titus Musa again and.
I'm working as a seniorconsultant for the CRC's
Reintegration Department.
Well, I first went to the CRCin 2014, working in the Child
Support Program Department, andI was there when the orphanage

(03:27):
was in existence, in fullexistence, 100% existence.
So in 2018, after going throughour research and assessment and
everything, when theorganization decided to reunify
all the children back to theirfamilies, a department was

(03:48):
established called the Training,coaching and Mentoring
Department.
So I was moved to thatdepartment to also work as a
senior consultant, and sincethen, I've been working with
orphanage leaders andorganizations in Sierra Leone
and recently in other parts ofAfrica.
So basically, that is how I gotto that position as a

(04:11):
consultant.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
So primarily your role is in helping orphanages
that want to change their way ofhelping kids to transition from
being an orphanage to puttingkids in families.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yes, that is currently my role role and
that's what I do.
We work with orphanage leadersand organizations in different
different parts of the countryand West Africa.
We move in Africa generally.
We move to these organizationsand try to engage them, engage
the leaders, and also work withother stakeholders in different

(04:46):
sectors, like the government andcommunity civil society
organizations, to also see howwe can disseminate the message
of children living in family andalso family-based care programs
.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Okay, very good.
George, your role at the CRC isa little bit different than
David's.
What is your role and how didyou get into this line of work?

Speaker 3 (05:10):
All right, thank you, laura.
My name is George Colanda again.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Let me just double check his microphone.
Okay, I just didn't want to gettoo far.
Let me double check yourmicrophone Mine.
Yeah, you're good, just want tomake sure.
Is it not coming through?
Yeah, it's not as strong as theother one, so let me put you on

(05:41):
another one, just because it'sa lot lower in volume.
So I hate to have one that theperson's having to edit it,
right.
Have one.
That's the person's having toedit it, right.
Sorry, your, your volume isreally low and it's just easier
to this one's at the ready.
Sorry, yeah, I'll just put thisone on.
Oh yeah, you were the only onethat I was like.
I can hear you, but you'relying.
Might as well get it from thebit, though.

(06:03):
I guess that's when you put itin tiny bags.
That's what happens.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Alright, let me make sure the batteries are good,
alright, yep, good, good, good.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Sorry about that, alright, so just clip it right
there.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, sorry about that All right, so just clip it
right there.
Yeah, Is it too hot?
No, just a little bit Good,good, good.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
I'm gonna turn you off.
I'm gonna put you on yellow,yellow, yellow, yellow.
Put you on the yellow yellow.
Talk again, hi, do you want?
Do you just want to restartwhere you were?

(06:59):
Would it help if I restart you?
You want me to go ahead?

Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah, I can just start.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
Okay, good.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
All right, thank you again, laura.
I am George Kulanda.
My role is quite different fromDavid's role.
That's because what David docurrently gave rise to what is
happening in my own department,in the sense that when there was
a transition from the orphanagesystem to family-based care and
there was a need for a casemanagement system, because you

(07:27):
do not just want to movechildren back to families, you
may want to know how they aredoing, what concerns do they
have about their health andother things.
So currently that's my role.
I, we, my team, I have a teamof social workers called case
managers.
We supervise and monitorfamilies, we visit them and we

(07:48):
assess their needs and see howwe can give possible
interventions and build upon thestrengths they have to move
them towards independence.
So basically that's my role atthe Child Integration Center
currently.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
So I'm going to throw a question I hadn't shared with
you before just into the mixand I'll ask you both when an
orphanage transitions, why?
First of all, why would anorphanage not have social
workers?
Because most don't, or maybethey have one or two, but then,
as you're moving kids back home,they're going back to families.

(08:21):
Why would you now need a teamof social workers?
Why is that an important partof transition?
And either one of you cananswer both.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah, so, as I've said rightly, it is important to
have social workers, skilledsocial workers, to monitor these
families, these children,especially because if you care
so much about the children andyou want to see that they do
well in life and you may want tofollow up on them, but you know
the manager alone cannot do it,the administration cannot do it

(08:50):
.
That's why you need socialworkers and you do not just need
social workers, you needskilled social workers that can
be able to assess um needs youshould.
They should be able to monitorprogress and see how we can keep
track of that, to see that theyare moved towards independence,
because you're not going togive them support for the rest
of their lives.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, anything to add , david?

Speaker 2 (09:13):
yes, well, um, vulnerable children and family
need support, not only physicalsupport like medication, food
and other things, maybeemotional supports.
Some may have been traumatizedfrom different, different
situations.
So I mean they need socialworkers.
You know, train social workersto really help them heal their

(09:35):
trauma and, you know, take themthrough a lot of things that
will really keep their familiestogether.
So they need those kind ofsupport from social workers or
case managers.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yeah, to add up to that, you may also want to see
that these families areempowered, because that's one of
the things that have helped tomove families towards
independence.
Because when you empowerfamilies, you are helping them
move towards independence.
And how?
You do not just sit down andempower them, you do that
through the social workers.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
It takes skilled social work to know how to help
a family move towardindependence.
Yeah, I think that's animportant thing.
Okay, so, like a lot of globalnortherners in the child welfare
sector, my area of expertise isnot in organizational change,
it's not in social work.
And yet when there is a meetingof experts in transition or

(10:30):
child welfare or childprotection, I'm often the
partner who gets to attend.
So I have some knowledge aboutthat, but that's not my field of
expertise.
It's not what I studied.
One big example of this is HCWattends the Christian Alliance
for Orphans Summit every yearand that brings about 2,000
people together from all overthe world to share best

(10:53):
practices and learn from eachother on the topics of child
welfare, child protection,foster and adoption, transition
support, which is the transitionof orphanages to family care,
and a range of other topics, andit's a really rich three days
where these experts get to meettogether and share best practice
ideas and have knowledgeexchange.

(11:14):
That happens, but in the fouror five years that HCW has been
able to attend this, we havenever really been able to bring
the practitioners that areactually doing the work on the
ground to the summit, and Ithink that's a problem.
So, george and David, you arethe expert practitioners, you're

(11:35):
the ones doing the job everyday on the ground in Sierra
Leone.
You're doing the childprotection work, the child
welfare work, transition supportwork.
So you must come to Summit allthe time.
I know I just said I set that upwrong.
We're going to have to cut that.
I know.
We're going to cut that out,okay, okay.
Let me go to the next question.

(11:55):
So, george, what finallyprompted your attendance at
Summit this year?

Speaker 3 (12:05):
Well, the HCW won a grant with Christian Alliance
for Orphans.
So through CRC we had toorganize some kind of family
strengthening workshop toshowcase the importance of
family strengthening.
So that prompted my attendancebecause this had to go through

(12:25):
Dr Sarah Neville, who is aresearcher.
She went down to Sierra Leonetrained the social work team on
the ground and we had to narrowdown some things to our level so
that we understand exactly whatwe are doing.
So we had to carry on thatworkshop to see how families

(12:46):
bond.
And it comes again withfinancial literacy and that kind
of thing and attachment as well.
So through that I got ascholarship to attend KFU.
Yeah, so that is something.
So there's no.
Yeah, so that is something I'm.
So Do you want to start over?

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah, Okay, so Okay, what do we do?

Speaker 3 (13:20):
Ask the question again, or maybe I should start
over.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Okay, Go ahead.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yeah, so the HCW got a scholarship from Christian
Alliance for Orphans.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Back up.
We got a research grant.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
A research grant.
Thank you.
Helping Children Worldwide gota research grant from Christian
Alliance for Orphans.
So through CRC we had Dr SarahNeville going down to Sierra
Leone to train the social workteam on the ground to see that
we have something tangible toshow that family strengthening

(13:54):
was important.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
Right, so you had a family strengthening workshop
that CRC already did, yes, andtalk a little bit about the
family strengthening workshopand then we can explain what
Sarah was doing and how she wasrelated to that.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
Yeah, the family strengthening workshop basically
deals with how families buildup strong relationships and bond
better.
And it also goes with financialliteracy because dealing with
bonding and with caregivers andchildren, because basically in
the African context we believeso much in family ties and

(14:30):
relationships but we have cometo realize that some caregivers
find it very difficult to bondbetter.
That's because most of the time,most of them are focused with
either providing for theirfamilies and making sure that
things are going on well, asforgetting that they have some
place, some nurturing aspect oftheir responsibility as parents.

(14:50):
Coming again to the financialliteracy, you know most of our
parents in some cases are notthat kind of literate.
They are not financiallyliterate.
So that is one of the things wedo to help them to see, because
when we want to empowerfamilies, we want to see that
these families, empowered, willbe able to be financially stable

(15:12):
and see how they can managetheir money, their money very
well and budgeting and savingsand all of that rest.
So that's some of the things wedo and again, we try to see how
parents can as well apologizeto their children, because that
is one thing that is challengingin that part of the world,
because parents have to be sorryfor what they do to children

(15:37):
and children have to show thatkind of remorse when they do
wrong to their caregiver.
So those are some of the thingsso CRC was already doing this
family too wrong to yourcaregiver.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
So those are some of the things, yeah, yeah.
So CRC was already doing thisfamily strengthening workshop
training with caregivers andchildren in the program, and we
thought at HCW and CRC we kindof thought it was having good
outcomes, like it was having apositive impact on caregivers
and caregivers would say to youthat they appreciated the

(16:06):
training.
But we didn't have research toactually like prove that it was
working.
And so the CAFO Research Grantpartnered us with Dr Sarah
Neville and Dr Sarah came toSierra Leone specifically to
teach the staff not how to dothe workshop, but what did she
specifically teach the staff?

(16:26):
How to do.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
She came back to Sierra Leone and she told us
around the questions, becausethe questions were centered
around the family strengtheningand the financial literacy the
survey questions.
The questions were aroundfamily strengthening, financial

(16:56):
literacy and how caregiverstemperament, emotions, emotional
regulations.
These were the questions aroundthat because in most cases we
found out that when caregiversget emotional they do things out
of the way.
So the questions were centeredaround that and the questions
were tailored.
She took us through someresearch, ethics and some of the
things that we should do andnot to do, because the research

(17:16):
was not that kind of compulsory,being that we have a target age
bracket which was between ages9 to 13.
As well, she was emphatic thatit was not compulsory.
Everybody will opt to do it ornot.
So around that we had a targetgroup and we were able to

(17:39):
understand the questions andtranslated those questions to
our local language, which helpedus.
So it made it easier for ourrespondents to understand the
questions.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
And you did surveys with them before they took the
workshop and then after.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
Yes, we did the survey before the workshop and
after the workshop as well, sothat was like pre and post.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, Okay, and then analyze that data, and so part
of your attendance at Summitthis year is to do what that's
related to this.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, part of what I'll be doing at the Summit is
I'll be co-presenting with DrSarah Neville and Dr Laura
Harvard.
Yeah, so with the research, theresearch symposium.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, that's right.
Okay, david, why are you comingto Summit?
What will you be doing atSummit this year?

Speaker 2 (18:42):
Well, first of all, as a practitioner, a transition
practitioner, there's no point.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
Where oh the mic fell off?

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Oh, because I was like what happened?
I agree, sorry, okay, all right, okay, good, yeah, okay.
So, as a transitionpractitioner, there's no point
where you say I've learnedeverything and I'm a super coach

(19:14):
or whatever.
So you need more knowledge tobe well-capacitated to help
other institutions, because you,being a coach, your
responsibility is solely toreally help other institutions
or organizational leaders.
And so, with that, having gonethrough other trainings, and I
applied for the K4 CareTransition Accelerator Academy

(19:36):
course and I was accepted fortwo years, so I have the
opportunity to attend theChristian Alliance for Orphans
Summit for 2024 and 2025.
And so I know coming to thesummit is not only to be an
audience, but I'm also there toteach, to serve as a stable

(19:59):
coach and to also teach otherswhat I've learned so far from my
course, because I'm at the endof the first lap of the course,
going towards the second as afinal part of it, which means
I've learned a lot and which isenough to really help others who
are coming to the conference tolearn from us and also to learn

(20:22):
more from others, because thereare people who are also going
to teach us and we are going togain a lot of knowledge.
So that's how I got to be partof the summit.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
And you'll be presenting as well?
Not so yeah, I will bepresenting a workshop on our
partnership and how we'reshifting our partnership so that
the people actually leadingthat conversation are the people

(20:54):
in the global south and not inthe global north, which I think
is a really importantconversation to have at CAFO,
with other organizations thathave similar partnerships, to
begin to have conversationsaround how those partnerships
should be structured.
So I can tell you that I'vebeen in a lot of rooms over the
past several years where peoplefrom the global north, like me,

(21:17):
talk about how important it isthat we include the voices of
care leavers, that is, youngpeople that have grown up in
institutional care and aged outwithout ever being placed in a
family, that they have a livedexperience of being in
institutional care, and we talka lot about the importance of

(21:37):
including the voices ofpractitioners, like the two of
you.
But there are barriers andchallenges that are very real in
getting practitioners and careleavers into the rooms where the
conversations are happening,which tend to happen primarily
in the global north.
Travel is difficult andexpensive, and so one obvious
answer people are probablythinking is well, why don't you

(21:57):
just Zoom?
So why is Zoom not an ideal wayto bring us together?
I mean, we use it, but why isit not the best solution?
What do you think, george?

Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah.
Zoom having Zoom meetings couldbe fine, but again it goes with
a lot of challenges.
It could be connectivity andhaving bandwidth or so In most
cases we've had Zoom meetingswhere we have to turn off our
cameras just to make sure wemaintain that kind of bandwidth
and keep the communication.
And in most cases we've had weare trying to connect takes more

(22:38):
time by the time you'reconnected and you know you're in
the middle of the discussionand you you miss out some things
and in some cases you're frozen, you just yeah.
So it comes with a lot ofchallenges and connections and
it's sometimes in that humanconnection.
Having zoom meetings, yeah,because having to see people in
person, you know it fosters morekind of connectivity and

(23:02):
confidence and a kind of a kindof relationship.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
David, I think you can speak to this because I know
you've participated in lots ofZoom events sessions with other
people involved in transition,like in the CAFO Transition
Accelerator Academy course.
Did I say that right CareTransition?
Okay, so you've done that a loton Zoom, but then you also had

(23:28):
the opportunity to travel toUganda and participate in person
in a Better Care Networktraining on a transition tool
framework tool.
Can you talk about thedifference between you know what
is different between engagingon Zoom with transition experts
as compared to being in the sameroom with transition experts?

Speaker 2 (23:50):
Well, there's a vast difference.
There's a vast difference in,you know, zoom connectivity,
zoom connection and in-personconnection, because when you are
in person, you have a lot ofopportunities to really go into
deeper conversations withoutthinking of being disconnected
or time.
So when I went to Uganda, wehad a lot of time to discuss.

(24:14):
We discussed at lunch, wediscussed during the sessions,
we discussed at lunch, wediscussed during the sessions,
we discussed even moving around,relaxing, we discussed, which
means the in-person connectionis far, far better than the Zoom
, although there are a lot ofchallenges around that as well.
It's not only connectivityissues or power.
Also, because I can remember wehad a lot of people in our

(24:40):
class, the K-A TransitionAcademy, who wanted to attend
KFU, which means they want to bein person to be seen and to
also connect with others, butmost were denied visas so they
were not able to really be partof the summit this year.
So that's a problem with thein-person connection from that

(25:01):
part of the world, which meansthere's a problem of
transitional leaders orpractitioners to meet in person
as well.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
It's a really big barrier.
You make me think about how weoften at CAFO talk about not to
knock on the workshops at CAFO,because they're great and the
content that you get in thosecourses is great.
But we always say that wherethe magic happens is in between.
It's at, like you say, it's atlunches or it's at dinners, or

(25:30):
it's in between the sessions,where you've heard somebody say
something and you say, hey, yousaid something.
That was very interesting to me.
I want to talk more with youabout that and you make
connections and relationshipsand networks get established and
you stay in touch with eachother and that just doesn't
happen.
If you only ever meet on Zoomand we try to do that

(25:53):
artificially, sometimes on Zoomwe'll put people in different
Zoom rooms like little smallgroups and have you try to
connect with one another.
It's just it's not real.
People like to be with realpeople.
I think I would thinkespecially so.
I'm obviously not Sierra Leonean.
This is audio, but you canprobably hear in my voice that
I'm not Sierra Leonean.

(26:14):
My perception of the SierraLeonean culture is that it's
highly relational.
Americans can be veryindividualistic and kind of do
things on their own and sort ofpride themselves about being
like cowboys or whatever.
I do it myself and I don't needhelp, but my perception about
Sierra Leoneans is thatrelationship's really important

(26:35):
not just family relationship,but relationships within the
community and things like that,and you're both in professions
that are also highly relational.
So, george, as a social worker,like why is it?
This is going to sound like anobvious question, but why is it
important for social workers toconnect with their clients

(26:56):
personally?

Speaker 3 (27:00):
connect with their clients personally.
It is always good to connectwith your clients and see,
because that's because you getto feel in a way, that's how
they feel and you get to see theissues.
You get to see the problemsyourself and by seeing that you
have ways of responding to thesechallenges they face in the
cultural context, that isappropriate because that is how

(27:21):
it brings positive results.
So that's one of the morereasons why it's very, very,
very important when you reachout to me, because just by phone
calls and just making thingsformal does not really, you know
, it builds more confidence andreliability.
And so when you go to where thepeople are, you see what

(27:41):
they're going through and youput yourself, you merge yourself
in that kind of situation andsee how best you can be able to
respond to them and possiblyguide them through so that you
may reduce certain things thatthey may be facing.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
So that's why it's more important to travel to them
and visit them, so that I thinkour audience would feel like,
yes, of course, when you'reworking with families and
vulnerable children, it'simportant to go and see where
they live and how they interactwith the people in their house
and their community and thingslike that.
It may not be as obvious fortransition support workers but,

(28:18):
david, your work, you and yourcoworker Rosemond, you travel
all over the country to meetwith orphanage directors in
their locations, to work withsocial workers where they are to
go, and meet with governmentofficials, and things like that.
Why do you go to that effort?
Why not just pick up the phoneor get on a Zoom with them?

Speaker 2 (28:41):
Yeah, well, that's in the first place.
Connecting through phone orZoom is not something that is
really that can really beeffective in that part of the
world, sierra Leone to bespecific because you can pick up
a call or you can pick up yourphone to make a call and the

(29:03):
phone will ring for like severalminutes without them picking up
their calls and people are notreally conscious of you know
connections or maybe phone callslet's talk of internet.
So the most effective way ofdoing that job is to move up to
those people and talk to themface-to-face, because we want to

(29:23):
build this relationship withthem, and so you can build a
very good relationship throughphone calls or emails.
They can receive emails, theycan receive phone calls at some
point, but you cannot build avery good relationship or get a
very good conversation.
So we want to build that kindof relationship that they will
really trust what we are doingor what we are seeing, because

(29:45):
when you sit with them, when youtalk with them, we share a lot
of things.
We share our experience, weshare what we do and sometimes
we really show them evidences ofwhat we are doing.
So it's really important tomove up to them because we want
to expand the knowledge base andwe can only do that by moving

(30:06):
up to these places, to the media.
We move to offices.
Most times we sit in placesthat you cannot imagine.
We sit under mango trees anddiscuss.
Sometimes we meet them.
You just sit there and talkwith them because you want to
make them be comfortable intalking to them.

(30:26):
So we sit everywhere, we meetwith them everywhere and talk to
them.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
You're building trust .

Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
So I think I took the work a little bit for granted
until we the three of us andMelody and the film crew
traveled to Mozambique last yearand I think that's the first
time I had seen firsthand youtwo talking with social workers
and orphanage directors.
What was that experience likefor you?
Because you're the onlytransition department in all of

(30:57):
Sierra Leone, and not that thatis a transition department or
whatever but just what was itlike to talk to someone in
another country that's engagedin orphanage work?

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah well, yeah Well.
For me that was not the firsttime, of course.
We went to library at somepoint to engage some leaders who
are supporting orphanage, andeven orphanage leaders directly,
and so going to Mozambique wasanother experience, a little bit
different.

(31:30):
You know the first thing is thelanguage barrier was a challenge
a little bit.
Although we had an interpreter,we are interpreting what we are
saying, but unfortunately wedon't know if what we are saying
is exactly what we are tellingthem or they are telling us the
same thing.
So our language barrier is alittle bit of a challenge, but

(31:54):
we can overcome that because Imean, at the end of the day,
what we want to see is aphysical change, Because if we
talk about transforming aninstitution and we see it going
on, I mean the physical changeis the most important part.
So the experience there wasrewarding because we had to meet
with different people,including government officials.

(32:17):
But it's a little bit differentbecause the idea of orphanage,
compared to that of us in SierraLeone, is different, because
they see it well.
Some of them see it assomething that is good at that
point, Although we are notsaying it's bad but they have
not really got the knowledge tosee the importance of

(32:39):
family-based care compared toorphanage.
So that was what I personallyobserved from the people that we
talked to in Mozambique.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah, I think one thing, george, that I observed
was even where, in the spaceswhere they got the idea that
children would be better off infamilies, they didn't
necessarily understand that it'snot okay to just bring a kid
home.
Mama, here's your son, and nowyou know, here's some financial

(33:10):
support maybe and everything'sgoing to be okay.
So can you speak to that alittle bit what that was like or
the conversations that youmight have had with social
workers or about social workthere?

Speaker 3 (33:20):
Yeah, it was a bit different.
You know, it's like when youpractice a general culture and
you have a subculture in that.
So that's like a social workculture, but in a Mozambique
kind of space you have some kindof social work going on there.
So it was a bit different,because there was a story I had

(33:41):
of a boy they took to his familybut they were forgetting
something that they needed tofollow up on this and they
needed to assess the familybefore even placing the child
with the family.
So at some point I was made tounderstand that the boy came
back, or so so well, we are alldoing social work.

(34:03):
But those are some of thedifferences you encounter when
you see.
And of course, the language Iwill not re-emphasize.
That was some kind of barrier.
So it took us time to reallypass on the message because you
had to speak to an interpreterand an interpreter tells the
social worker what's he or sheunderstands.

(34:24):
So it's kind of differentsomehow.
So we only, we only hope thatthe government helps them to
accept that kind of a change andsee how they can put more
energy on that and get atransition.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Maybe we planted some seeds for future thinking.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
That is a part of building the structures to
transform an institution, and Ithink that challenge hinges on
getting a very good casemanagement system before even
taking kids back home.
So we didn't see that.
Actually they just think as.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
Riley said just taking kids back to their
families is just the familiesare available, yes, they just
take them back.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
So they have a lot to learn.
Structures to build, like thecase management system, to see
that when you place a child,that placement has to be a
permanent placement.
It's not like taking a childand just abandon the child and
that's it Right right.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
So those interactions that you had there and I think
the ones you had in Liberia,were not necessarily about the
exchange of best practices,because you were there to coach
and mentor and teach and toengage them on a specific topic.
But this year, as I said beforeDavid, you got an opportunity

(35:50):
to travel to Uganda.
Can you just share a little bitabout what you were doing there
and about what that experiencewas like, how that was different
?

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, specifically, we went to Uganda to be trained
on the transition framework tool.
But there was more to that, youknow, as far as I'm concerned,
because we were not only trained, like sitting and people
teaching us.
We had the opportunity to meetwith other transition experts in

(36:20):
the same room and outsideduring lunch we had this
conversation.
I know they were deliberate.
Actually, those settings weredeliberate for us to really
discuss issues, and which wasfruitful, because at some point
we are teamed up like you go to,you pick like two or three
people from another country, yousit together and discuss, you

(36:43):
know, so we did that multipletimes, during lunch and during
dinner and so on and so forth.
So it was really awell-experienced sharing session
.
Yeah, and I realized that Ialmost spoke with almost 90% of
the people who are there fromdifferent countries, because at
some point they would tell youOK, go to a different person

(37:04):
from a different country.
So at the end of the day, weall ended up discussing with
everybody from different,different countries, and so
that's really opened up a verygood connection between us or
amongst us, because we had aforum.
Currently, we are people fromdifferent countries.
When you have a very goodmaterial, that really helps, you

(37:25):
know, to move the, thetransition work forward.
You can send to that forum andpeople will just pick that up
and learn from it.
And um, recently, when I whenI'm here S I just got a call
from a colleague from Ghana whowas also part of the conference.
He's trying to developsomething about child protection

(37:47):
, the challenges and gaps andopportunities of child
protection in West Africa.
So he reached out to me to justgive him some heads up on how
child protection works and theopportunities and gaps and
challenges in Sierra Leone, andalso asked me to connect him to
other people if I know them, andI did that with my colleague

(38:07):
from CTA in Liberia, yes, and Ithink somebody else in Nigeria,
yes, so I just connected him tothose people.
So it's like the connection isreally working, a circle of
connection, different issues nowit's just the same goal, but
whatever issue that comes up, wehave to discuss that in our
forum and if there's somebodywho has already gone through

(38:31):
that and has some knowledge,they can come up and teach and
share their experience.
So, in a whole, the transitionframework tool was really useful
to the work because it reallyteaches institutions who are
preparing to go into transitionor trying to transform their
institution.
It's not really mandatory.

(38:52):
It's not like a Bible, which isthe fact.
It's not like a Bible, which isthe fact.
It's not like that.
It's something that you canjust use and fit into your own
context and you can pull outthings that you don't need and
you can, you know, modify things, you know.
But at the end of the day, it'sreally good that you use it

(39:13):
because it guides you a lot inyour work.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yes, what was the best part of being in Uganda
with the other transition folks?

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yeah, the connection, because the face-to-face
connection because these arepeople we started conversations
online but, as we rightly saidjust now, it's not something
that's really effective.
But when we meet in person andfortunately there are some who
I'm going to meet again here inthe US during KFU, so we are

(39:45):
discussing that in our forum.
I'm going to KFU and somebodywill be there, so we are going
to meet and we are going toconverse.
So the best part is really whenwe meet in person and get some
conversation which is important.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
So HCW we've said often on this podcast that we
have an ethic around radicalcollaboration and I really
believe that when HCW started toconnect with other networks,
other organizations that dosimilar work, it changed
everything organizations that dosimilar work it changed

(40:20):
everything.
It kind of it leveled us up ina way that we hadn't anticipated
, because up until that point Ithink our first CAFO was 2019,
nabs and I went and up untilthat point we had an orphanage
that we supported in SierraLeone for 16, 18 years.
We'd been successfully throughthe transition, but we'd done it
kind of on our own.
We kind of knew other peoplewere doing it, but we'd done it
kind of on our own.
We kind of knew other peoplewere doing it, but we hadn't

(40:40):
really reached out.
And then we came to CAFO whenwe started sharing our story and
people started connecting to itand we started connecting to
groups and organizations andindividuals.
And then, when we did go awayand we had to connect virtually,
we'd already made theconnection face-to-face go away
and he had to connect virtually.
We'd already made theconnection face-to-face and
those collaborations have beenreally pivotal in growing HCW's

(41:03):
work and helping to grow CRC'swork.
So I'm excited that you guys aregoing to CAFO and making these
connections and that you madethese connections in Uganda,
because I think that's wherethings start to happen and it's
like an iron sharpens iron thing.
It's a um, you know, two headsare better than one thing, I

(41:23):
don't know it, just it's thecollaboration.
I think that's the real power,um, that really powers change.
Um, I'll tell you that one ofthe most fun things for me while
you were in Uganda is that youwould WhatsApp message me and
you would talk about how greatthe training sessions were.
But mostly you were in Ugandais that you would WhatsApp
message me and you would talkabout how great the training
sessions were, but mostly youwere talking about the
connections you were making.

(41:43):
And you spoke to a connectionyou made with someone, um, a
transition support expert inLesotho, um, and I just loved
kind of being the fly on thewall, seeing that you were
having that experience that Ihave gotten to have at CAFO and
other workshops like that,because I just think that's a
really that's just a reallyimportant thing and it's a

(42:04):
really energizing and upliftingthing when you meet other people
.
Up until you know thatopportunity, I mean, you don't
get a lot of opportunity to talkto transition support experts
in Sierra Leone.
Right, because you're it.
It's you and Rosemond, you'rethe only one.
So, george, I know you get moreopportunity to engage maybe in

(42:26):
some best practice conversationswith your social work team,
because you've obviously got ateam of people at CRC, but also
with other social workers fromorganizations in Sierra Leone
that are part of the SierraLeone Coalition for Family Care,
princess Promise and the Childand Family Permanency Services.
When you engage with the socialworkers, like at Princess

(42:48):
Promise or CFPS, how is thatdifferent than when you're just
talking to your social workersat CRC?

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Engaging other members of the Sierra Leonean
team, the same practice ofsocial workers.
Well, we do not really see muchof a difference, only that we
see that we have in some casesdifferent mandates, because when
you talk about Princess Promise, they are purely based with
girls, they deal mostly withgirls and not boys, whereas we

(43:17):
deal with boys and girls, andwhen we go to CFPS, they they
deal with babies, we do not.
We have age limits.
So there are slight differencesanyway.
But, relating that to a culturalcontext, I think we all operate
on the same context, eventhough there are times we may
have one or two challenges.
But it's all good that we havethis kind of circle of coalition

(43:43):
, also because we in a way helpeach other, because we've had a
case where there was a need fora child to stay in an interim
care home, but the child was agirl and then our interim carer
was not around, she traveled, soI reached out and so we had

(44:04):
Princess Promise and we had toreach out to them, princess
Promise, and they were willingto.
So that's in a way of we allhelping each other to achieve
that one goal, which is great,and we learn from each other,
because for each time we meet wehave topics of discussions,
concerns we raise and how we allwork, particularly with the

(44:25):
ministry, to see that they giveus the kind of strong backup we
need to do our work on theground.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Well, and you've had the opportunity to have Dan Hope
come down and do some trainingfrom Strengthening Families and
Children, but not just atraining of you or of the CRC.
The coalition members havecombined and so you have social
workers from Princess Promiseand from CRC and from CFPS.
Why is that better than if itwere just focused on CRC?

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Yeah.
So, adding up to what I wasjust saying, it's better when we
have people from differentorganizations to come and share
knowledge and see how we canstrengthen each other and tap
into each other's knowledge.
So one of the things I wouldsay is great for us is because
most of the times when Dan Hopeteaches, he's more concerned

(45:17):
about safety concerns and how wecan be able to take note of
that, because there are concernswe should not outrule in most
of these trainings.
So when we have people fromdifferent organizations coming
together, we see that everybodybrings his own idea to the table
and see how we are, becauseit's not a competition.

(45:37):
We are all trying to help eachother to see that we move.
So everybody brings his ownidea to the table to see that we
can tap into that and see how.
What are the strengths you have,what are my weaknesses?
What opportunities do you have?
You know what?
How can we use all of thesetogether to see that we serve
the children and families we, we, we serve.

(45:57):
So these are some of the goodthings about it when we have
different people coming togetherso we build up each other's um
potentials and see that wesupport each other to towards
one goal right, it's that powerof collaboration again, yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah.
Would either one of you like totalk about why you think that
partner organizations in theGlobal North, like HCW, should
work harder or make it in theirwork plans or in their budgets
to bring people like you fromthe Global South to these kinds
of meetings and conferences andworkshops, more than we are?

Speaker 3 (46:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
All right.
Yeah, like we stated earlier on,you know we have the
opportunity to connect virtuallyand talk to our colleagues and
you colleagues, and collaboratewith others.
But I think bringing people fromthe Global South to really meet
with those in the Global Northis really important because the

(46:59):
in-person conversations are moreeffective than the virtual
connectivity.
So it is really important forus to be seen and to talk to
each other.
But, more importantly, we aredoing the work.
We are on the ground.
We are seeing first-hand issues.
Our hands are always on what weare doing, so people may trust

(47:27):
what we say more, not that theycan trust what people from here
will say, but they will reallybe more interested, you know, in
listening to those who arereally on the ground and doing
the work to share their stories,to share their experience, to
talk to them, than those who arehere, like the funders or the

(47:47):
donors.
So it's important for us to becoming and, you know, talking to
people.
You know so that they are notgoing to listen to you, you know
physically, but to us, seeingus, and believe that what we are
doing is the right thing we aredoing.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
Yes.
So to add up to that, we've hadcases where people in the
global annals have attendedthese summits and workshops, but
you find out that in most casesthey have the funds and so in
most cases we have people in theglobal south attended to do
things the way the funders inthe global nodes want things to

(48:25):
go and the global not wantthings to go.
So you see, so in that case youhave to allow, if there are
ways you help people in theglobal south to come to the
ground and see, and when theysee the land, what is available
here and to bring that to theirown cultural context and see how
they can fit into what is bestthere on the ground, so that it

(48:47):
gives cultural appropriateresults, that kind of thing.
So that's the other, so that itgives cultural appropriate
results, that kind of thing.
So that's the other reason whyit's very important to have
people from the global southdoing the work to attend these
kind of workshops and summits.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Yeah, because I think what happens the way we have
been doing it is it's like thechild's game of telephone, which
it's an American thing, but theway that it's played.
We'll have children sitting ina circle and one child will
whisper something into the earof the child next to them and
then they whisper it to the nextchild, and the next child, and
the next child and at the endthe last child will say out loud

(49:24):
to the group what they thoughtthey heard.
But usually what's happened.
It's funny because usuallywhat's happened is that whatever
the first child said iscompletely different.
Right, it's completely changedthrough that multiple
translation.
It's like what you were talkingabout in Mozambique, when you
have to talk through aninterpreter and you have to have
some trust that what you'resaying and the intention of what

(49:45):
you're saying is actually beingreceived on the other end.
So we've been trying, I think,in a lot of cases in the global
north, to go to these things andthen come back to our partners
in the global south and sayhere's what I learned at CAFO,
here's the slide deck from CAFO,or here's a recording, even
from CAFO.
But I think that something mightget lost in that translation

(50:07):
and certainly a lot of what getsmissed is that secret sauce
that happens in between theworkshops, where people just
connect and relationships areformed.
And so, you know, I want tokind of prod the global north a
little bit to take moreresponsibility to make this

(50:29):
happen, to see it as a reallycritical, important part of the
work that we're doing is to makesure that folks like you are
seated at the tables so that youcan give that firsthand
experience.
So this is your first time inthe United States, both of you

(50:50):
and your first time attendingCAFO Summit, and we travel in
just a few days to Nashville,which is where Summit is going
to be held this year, and I wantto ask each of you to tell me
what do you think it will belike and what are you hoping to
get out of it.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Okay, I'll go first.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
My expectations at KFOR will be more of social work
knowledge, because nobody is areservoir of knowledge and as
much as I'll be co-presenting,I'll as well want to reach out
to other social workers fromother countries to see how we
all can talk to each other andbuild up that kind of

(51:38):
relationship and discuss thingsaround expertise and see how we
can be able to come together andwork together and see what
skills probably I might belacking and what I might have to
share with them that they maybe lacking as well.
So these are my expectationsjust an open mind for that,

(51:59):
david.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
Yeah, like you always say, we are trying to get or
trying to be part of the globaltable where we have a voice to
discuss issues of childcare inthe world, and I think that's
the level we are moving towardscurrently.
So, coming to KFU, I know weare very close to that level

(52:23):
where we talk to globalpractitioners everywhere.
So, because I'm sure that's thehighest peak for now, that's
the biggest forum, you know,that brings that kind of you
know, that number ofpractitioners together in the
world.
So if we are here to be part ofthat, and not only as listeners

(52:48):
but also people who are goingto teach, I mean we are creating
impact and I'm sure we aregoing to teach.
I mean we are creating impactand I'm sure we are going to
build connections, we are goingto really collaborate and learn
a lot from different, differentpeople, which will really earn
us a very big seat in that table.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
So I think you've spoken to this before, but I
kind of want to hit the nail onthis head again You're not just
coming to attend and receive atSummit, you're coming to present
.
Why is that so significant?

Speaker 3 (53:21):
Well, I would say it's significant because we are
gradually moving towards aglobal recognition, in the sense
that what we do in our littlecorner is practically being
recognized globally.
And we are experiencing a shiftbecause if we have people from

(53:46):
the Global South coming topresent at a very big summit
like this and it's kind ofgetting some kind of
significance and recognitionglobally, so I see that as
something very significant andhistoric.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah, that's really significant.
As George said, sierra Leone isa very small country looking at
population and even in size andall that, but it's like we from
Sierra Leone coming to aconference like this, sierra
Leone would be like a very bigcountry in terms of care reform,
because we are not looking atthe size anymore, it's the

(54:27):
knowledge, what you're going togive out, what you can offer to
people.
So, if we have people from over150 countries coming together
and listening to people fromSierra Leone, which means that's
a very huge impact, not onlyfor us as individuals, but for
our country as well, because weare representing the entire
nation of Sierra Leone, which Iknow the government might not be

(54:53):
aware maybe they are but I'msure, if they are aware, at the
end of the day which I'm surethey are going to be aware of
that, because we are going topush that forward to know that
we have represented this nationin a forum like that, and that
will be a very big boost forinstitutions that we are working
for and even the children aswell, because we know our names

(55:13):
will be everywhere in terms ofchild care.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Yeah, as a matter of fact, george, this week we had a
historic phone call with achild who came through the CRC
and experienced they actuallyspent some time in the orphanage
before the transition and theygot to participate in a phone
call this week.
Do you want to speak a littlebit to what that phone call was

(55:36):
about?

Speaker 3 (55:37):
Well, like I have said, we are practically getting
a global record measure.
We've had the UN, the Office ofHigh Commission on Human Rights
.
They wanted some participationof children who have lived in
institutional care for some timeand they wanted participants
from other organisations and thechild integration centre was

(56:01):
among and we had one of ourchildren, who is Abdullahi Dakwa
, who participated in.
From the feedback I got thathis participation was very great
.
This is Joseph Boy of JSS also,but that's a huge blessing.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
So he's 12, 13 years old.
Yeah, 12, 13.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
And he was assisted by two of our case managers,
Deborah and Edward.
That was great and that's ablessing kind of that's really
exciting.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
So this 12 year old boy was able to speak into the
UN commission on human rightsabout what children have a right
to and how they're cared for.
I think that's amazing thatthis child in this small country
in West Africa is speaking tothe UN.
So, yeah, I think that's a goodmetaphor for sort of this

(56:58):
moment, this significant momentyou guys are talking about with
getting on the global stage.
So I don't want to like bangtoo hard on those of us in the
global north.
Bang too hard on those of us inthe Global North, because I
think Global North supportershave a lot to add and I think
that we can often link ourpartners to resources and

(57:20):
knowledge sometimes that theymay have more difficulty
accessing.
But I think that if we flip thescript and we have those in the
Global South that are doing theactual work meeting the clients
face-to-face you know, coachingorphanage directors through
this process or whatever andhave them lead the conversation
and identify what theirstrengths are, what their needs

(57:43):
are, what resources would mostbenefit them, I think our
partnerships can be stronger andthe work that we do can have a
greater impact.
So that's why I'm excited thatthe two of you are coming to
CAFO and not just coming butpresenting, because I think it's
beginning to, in my mind, haveyou two take center stage so

(58:05):
that I, as the Global Northpartner, can be a little bit
more off to the side, which iswhere I think Global North
partners belong.
So I'm going to pause here.
This episode of OptimisticVoices is a little bit different
because we are recording thispart.
We have recorded this part onthe Friday before we're going to
travel from Virginia toNashville and attend CAFO Summit

(58:29):
, and what I want to do is dothe end of our episode.
We're going to record that atthe end of CAFO, at the end of
the week, next week, because Iwant to capture your reflections
and your thoughts after you'vebeen through all of it, so that
our audience can sort of getyour perspective on what it was

(58:50):
really like.
So, george and David, I want tothank you for your being here
today and just say I'm excitedto travel to Nashville.
Any thoughts before we getready to go and get on the plane
?

Speaker 2 (59:03):
I think we are just excited.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
We want to be there to see what we can do and how we
can raise the flag of ourcountry.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
For some time now.
We've seen careful summits onZoom.
I want to go there and be onthe ground and see how it looks
like, Feel it.
I'm just excited abouteverything.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Yeah, me too.
Full disclosure we were so busyand so exhausted by the end of
the week in Nashville that wedidn't actually record the last
part of this episode inNashville, so we're doing it
over Zoom several weeks afterSummit.
So you made it through yourfirst CAFO Summit and I want to

(59:49):
know know, just as you'rereflecting on your time there,
what are your impressions,george?
Why don't you go first?

Speaker 3 (59:59):
All right, making it to CAFO first CAFO was a huge
success and having us to presentyou know to global
practitioners like us wasanother wonderful thing.
You know, getting to that kindof a stage of recognition and

(01:00:20):
you know showcase what we do inchild welfare and providing
services for families, it wasgreat.
So you know, when you meet somany people like doing what you
do and some do more than whatyou do.
So I would say holistically, itwas a gathering of experts and

(01:00:44):
people that know, people whowant to know more and people who
want to learn more.
So it was a wonderfulexperience.
In overall.
It was a wonderful experiencefor people like me from the
Global South.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
David, do you have anything to add?

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Oh, yes, well for me, in relation to my work, I feel
fulfilled to some extent.
I'm confident that we are notalone in what we do.
I've been part of this largeglobal gathering of
professionals, discussing,advocating and sharing

(01:01:30):
experience, developingstrategies on how to empower
ourselves in terms of knowledgeto improve the lives of the
children and families we servein our different regions.
Overall, my time was spent.
My time spent at the CAFE wasmeaningful and I was really
impressed with the responsesfrom organizations like Helping
Children Worldwide and otherindividuals who poured their

(01:01:51):
energy and resources to makesure they have people attend
this all-important conferencejust to fulfill the work of God
in that direction, that is,caring for children.
So it was a meaningfulexperience overall.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
So this question is for either of you, just whoever
wants to go first.
What was the most surprisingthing about Capo Summit for you?

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
I would say the most surprising thing for me was,
well, it was a surprise butlooking at it from the other
side of the coin, it could notbe seen as a surprise To see
people, let's say globally, moveto just one place to share
knowledge and ideas and see howwe can all share resources

(01:02:54):
together to see that we all worktowards one goal, which is
child-focused or providingservices for children.
That was kind of surprising forme.
Thinking of how busy the worldis, kind of surprising for me,
you know, thinking of how busythe world is everybody's busy
here and there and you knowpeople make up time that week

(01:03:15):
just for a kind of a very bigevent I was kind of surprised
for me.
That tells me like there's moreto be done and people are
willing to do more.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Yeah, how about you, David?

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Well, yeah, similarly to what George was saying, like
you said, having this largenumber of professionals coming
together was a little bit of asurprise, not really.
The surprising part is, in myopinion I was thinking most of

(01:03:53):
these people go there to justtravel and mingle, but realizing
that people are really engagedin learning and sharing
experience makes me a little bitsurprised that people are doing
this deliberately to make surethey serve children and families

(01:04:16):
.
But the most one I can say isin my opinion.
Again, I was thinking we allhave this one way or thought
about caring for children, thatis, um, preventing family
separation and, you know,bringing families together.

(01:04:38):
I realized that we all have ummostly opposite strategies,
opposite thoughts.
You know some people are caringoff about family separation and
want to bring families togetherand where some people are really
thinking of children stayed inan institution and also care for

(01:04:58):
them as well.
So we have this mixed opinion.
So it was a bit surprising forme to realize that even as we go
as staff from CRC with this bigopinion of transitioning
institutions, but there areother institutions or other, you
know, professionals who arealso promoting opening systems.

(01:05:21):
So it was a little bit of asurprise, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Yeah, I think it's one thing to George's point.
It's one thing to hear that,like you know, a couple thousand
people attend Capo Summit everyyear.
But then to be there with.
This year was Capo's 20thanniversary of Summit and they
were saying that there were morethan 2,500 people actually at

(01:05:45):
Summit this year.
It was the biggest audiencethey've ever had.
Summit this year it was thebiggest audience they've ever
had.
And then to realize that, likeyou're saying, david, these
aren't people who just wanted tocome to Nashville and hang out
together.
These are people who arededicated to doing what they
think God is calling them to doin caring for orphans and

(01:06:09):
vulnerable children and brokenfamilies.
And there are still.
I mean, if you put 2,500 peoplein a space, they're all going
to have different opinions aboutwhat's the best way to do that.
I was surprised this year too,to hear there's still a lot of
support for institutional careof children, which you know.
Our audience will know that HCWand CRC are committed to the

(01:06:33):
idea that children don't belongin institutions and that
institutional settings aren'tgood for children, and we
prioritize family for allchildren.
So I think that surprised metoo, and I've been going to
summit, I've gone to moresummits than the two of you.

(01:06:54):
That surprised me this year too,and it just kind of underscored
for me that we still have a lotof work to do and you guys from
the global south, I think,still have a lot to teach those
of us in the global north.

Speaker 3 (01:07:09):
I don't know if you want to comment.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
Sure, that's true.
That's true.
We have a lot of work and a lotof eye opening experience
sharing to those who are in theglobal north.
Looking at us as people who arein the global north, you know,
looking at us as people who arein the forefront of this whole
thing, you know working anddoing the practical work.

(01:07:38):
So I think it's a hugeresponsibility on us to really
make sure people from the globalnorth understand what it is for
children to grow up within thefamily system.
So I agree with you forchildren to grow up within the
family system.
So I agree with you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm assuming that you bothwould, you know, like to attend
Summit again.
So I'm going to put that aside.
We're just going to assume thatthat's true.
Is there anyone else you thinkfrom the Global South it would
be super important to encourageto attend CAFO Summit and I'm
not talking just about your workcolleagues and friends, because

(01:08:13):
obviously you know you wouldwant your work colleagues to
attend Summit.
But who else in child welfareand Sierra Leone in your country
do you think would benefit fromgoing to CAFO Summit and
learning about what's happeningin the world in the care of

(01:08:34):
children?

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Well, to me, if we had to have people attend CAFO
from this part of the world, itwould be maybe other people.
It would be mostly people fromthe government side who are
working in ministries that carefor children.
Yes, because we have thisglobal trend that we know as

(01:09:04):
experts, now professionals inthe field.
We know what's going on on adaily basis, we are updated with
information.
But you will be disappointed toknow that most of our
government side, those who areworking with the government, do
not really have updatedinformation, even within the
country what is going on in thefar side of provinces, but they

(01:09:29):
don't know, let alone we talkabout some other parts of the
world.
So, if we can, if I can, youknow, suggest another category
of people to attend CAFO.
It will be from the government.

Speaker 3 (01:09:44):
Yes, laura.
So to add up to that, I wouldsay specifically, if we have,
there are certain agencies orcommissions that are, you know,
centered around children.
We have the National Commissionfor Children.
I strongly recommend that theyattend these kind of events, and
the Ministry of Gender andChildren as well.
I strongly recommend that theyattend these kind of events to

(01:10:06):
see what's happening likeglobally, you know, to see
what's happening globally, jointhe global trend, to see how
things are going and how theycan bring that to the Sierra
Leonean culture and context, tosee how we all can work towards
providing services for children,because it's about the
knowledge.

Speaker 1 (01:10:26):
Yeah, that would be amazing.
You know, when we talk aboutspecifically the work, david,
your department, the transitioncoaching and mentoring
department does, there are a lotof stakeholders and because
there are a lot of stakeholdersinvolved, there are a lot of
places where you know if thestakeholders don't have the

(01:10:46):
knowledge they don't understand,then you know the transition
can get derailed, then it canfail and the burden all falls on
you to educate all of thosestakeholders.
But if somehow some of thosestakeholders in government, in
the ministries, like you'resaying, could, you know, attend

(01:11:07):
summit, then they would knowthat that's not all just coming
from you.
That's what the world istalking about, that's what
everyone in the global sector istalking about, and that would
be really game changing, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):
Sure Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
So what did you take home with you to CRC, like, what
were the big ideas?
What comes next for you in yourwork, now that you got a CAFO
summit under your belt?
How do you think this is goingto impact your daily work and
your goals for the future, forwhat you do?

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
Yeah, yeah, first of all, it was really important,
like we've always said, for usto be at this conference,
because it's a reaffirm that weare not alone in what we do and

(01:12:09):
it's a confidence, becauselooking at or seeing this huge
crowd of people makes us knowthat we are really not alone.
A lot of people are interestedin a similar thing we are doing

(01:12:35):
and that I learned a lot, youknow, from best practices to
really care for children in myown, you know, in my own area,
like the transition stuff, stuff, and I listened to a lot of

(01:12:57):
people who shared experiencefrom how they do their work in
different countries and Irealized that, oh yes, even
though we have a knowledge baseor we have, we've added
something to that.
I've added something to that Iwill bring back to clients and,
you know, lead organizationsthat they can really understand
that the work we are doing isnot only for Sierra Leone, it's

(01:13:20):
not only for Africa, but it'sreally a global stuff.
So those experiences, I think Iwill have to share that with
whosoever I meet in my clients,my lead organizations.
I have to share thoseexperiences.
We don't do them Specifically,I really cannot point them out

(01:13:44):
correctly, but I have a lot ofnotes that I took that I think
are very important to work andwe can be using that on a daily
basis.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:13:57):
That's great.
How about you, george?
Yeah, so there are so manythings we have learned on
Careful Ground and around that,but some of the things I
probably want to share you knowit's about because, yeah, we'd
like to to share it's about howwe can um, strengthen um.

(01:14:20):
You know the leadership and youknow, especially from my
department and coming comingfrom the leadership of um, the
entire crc coming down to mydepartment.
And secondly, it's because Iwork closely with the Ministry

(01:14:40):
of Gender and Children and howwe can be able to as well share
this with them, because the workwe do is not a one-person work,
because it takes teamwork andeffort and energy, and some of
the things that I just where Iwas reassured of was that the
little steps we take, the smallmovements we make, really did

(01:15:03):
matter, because, from what Ioverheard from other experts and
other people was that you knowthere are steps in doing all of
what we do, and so these arethings I would like to share,
especially from my department,and how we can work as well with
the Ministry of Gender and thelocal FSU to see how we can all

(01:15:25):
work together to provideservices for our children and
families.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Yeah, I think one of the things that I always take
away from CAFO Summit theexpertise and the sessions you
attend and the things you learnare really valuable.
But the magic is in thecollaboration.
It's in the bringing togetherof people with expertise and
ideas and the energy andcompassion and commitment that

(01:15:59):
we all have to providing abetter future for the children
in our different contexts.
And I think that is the power,is recognizing that we're
stronger together, that when wework together with the
government, with the ministries,with each other, with other
organizations, as experts, thatwhen we come together that's

(01:16:21):
when we're really going tochange things, that's really
when we're going to move into abrighter future.
So one thing we know is comingreally soon in the future is
Helping Children Worldwide'sAnnual Policy Conference.
Oh shoot, just lost them.
I'm going to keep recordingthis part and hopefully they'll

(01:16:42):
be able to come back.
So, david, are you back?
Yes, yes sorry.
Okay, no, that's okay.
I'll just restart this questionand then we only have two more
questions left and Melody willcut this part out.
So one thing we know that'scoming in the really near future
is HCW's annual policyconference, which is called

(01:17:05):
Rising Tides.
David, as the Global SouthTransition Expert at the Child
Integration Center, isco-hosting the conference with
me, which will be in February ofnext year, and we're going to
convene a group on the topic ofhow we can expand and broaden
the impact of the transitionsupport of moving orphanages

(01:17:30):
from a residential model tofamily care models, orphanages
from a residential model tofamily care models.
And it's our goal thatorganizations like HCW and the
Global North people like me willsupport and scholarship
transition experts from theGlobal South like David to be
able to come to Rising Tides inperson in Washington DC.
And we want at least 50% of theparticipants at Rising Tides to

(01:17:55):
be those with direct experiencein supporting orphanage
transition, not so that they canbe trained.
That's not the intention ofRising Tides.
I'm not training people in theGlobal South how to transition
orphanages, but rather to bringthose with direct experience,
knowledge, expertise intransition work, the people

(01:18:15):
actually doing that work, intothe same room together.
David, can you say a little bitabout why it's so important to
do this and what would you liketo tell people about why they
should attend or why they shouldhelp others to attend?

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
Well, in the first place, as you said, it's really
important for people from theglobal south to attend because,
as you said, they have directexperience in transition support
and can provide knowledge andexpertise to broaden the global

(01:18:53):
impact of transition.
And also it's really importantagain because attending or
supporting someone to attend iscrucial for fostering a diverse
exchange of ideas and ensuringthat those with fostering
experience in transition support, particularly from the Global

(01:19:16):
South, have a platform to sharetheir expertise, help to enrich
the global dialogue andsolutions around transition
support.
So it's really important fororganizations to support

(01:19:37):
organizations to support peoplefrom the global south so that
they can attend this rising tideworkshop in Washington.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
That's great, and I'm just going to do a shameless
plug for HCW's rising tides.
If you're an organization thatbelieves, as we do, that those
in the global south have to beat these tables, have to be in
these rooms and at theseconversations, as you know,
travel from the global south tothe global north is not easy and

(01:20:02):
it's not inexpensive.
Hcw is setting up a scholarshipfund.
If you want to contribute tothat scholarship fund and help
an expert like David travel fromthe Global South to rising
tides in February of 2025,please reach out, email me,

(01:20:23):
reach out to HCW and we'll helpyou figure out how you can
donate to this really importantscholarship opportunity.
So I have one last question.
This is the last question thatwe ask all of our guests and
that is just really briefly.
What keeps you hopeful aboutthe future in your work?

Speaker 3 (01:20:51):
Yeah, one thing that keeps me hopeful about the
future and you know mostespecially the work we do is
with people around the worldthat are willing to put in their
best energy and support andcommitment to see that every

(01:21:11):
child gets a love in theirfamily, to see that every child
gets a loving family.
That is one thing that keeps mehopeful and keeps me going, and
you know we may want to, aroundthe world, make sure that we
have every child in a safe andloving family.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
Yeah, David.

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
Yeah, well, I'm really hopeful, you know,
looking at different approachesand our efforts that we've
adopted over time and we arestill learning to promote the
best practices for servingchildren, um, in this part of
the world and even some otherparts, makes me really hopeful
that someday or very soon we'llhave a farm grip on the things

(01:22:02):
that will really maintainfamilies and prevent family
separation.
Because as we move along, weknow there are people who are
like game changers, people whoinfluence things and as we
preach our best practices, I amsure one day it will really sink

(01:22:26):
deep down into their hearts andthey can change the way we care
for children.
So that's my hope for what wedo currently.

Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
Yeah, so we've talked a lot about, obviously, about
CAFO, and I just want to, beforeI wrap up, just want to thank
the Christian Alliance forOrphans for having their annual
summit, for convening thisimportant event every year.
We think that our collaboration, our involvement at CAPO has

(01:23:02):
been really enriching in a lotof ways, and so I just want to
say thank you to CAPO and thenjust end by saying that we're
always grateful when you tuneinto Optimistic Voices.
We're thankful that you chooseto listen to us.
We believe that it is a big andmessy and difficult world out
there and there are a lot ofchallenges that particularly

(01:23:24):
these guys face in their work inthe global South, and there is
no shortage of need andchallenge and difficulty in the
work that they do.
But we also believe that withradical courage and radical
collaboration together we reallycan change the world.
So thanks, guys, for being onthis episode with us and thanks

(01:23:48):
for making the trip.

Speaker 2 (01:23:51):
Thank you, thank you and bye, bye, thank you.