April 18, 2025 • 42 mins
When Jen Conrad first sponsored a child in Sierra Leone, she never imagined it would lead to adoption proceedings, heartbreaking visa denials, and eventually creating a groundbreaking program that's changing lives across the country. Her story reveals the hidden aftermath of institutional care that few people consider: what happens when orphaned children become adults?
After traveling to Sierra Leone multiple times and forming deep bonds with two siblings, Jen and her husband pursued adoption. Despite gaining full legal guardianship in Sierra Leone's courts, their hopes were crushed when U.S. immigration repeatedly denied visas for their children. Suddenly faced with parenting teenagers across an ocean, Jen discovered an even greater problem - young adults aging out of orphanages had nowhere to go and no skills for independent living.
"There were more resources available for someone coming out of prison than a child transitioning from institutional care," Jen explains. Without basic life skills, budgeting knowledge, or mental health support, these young adults faced nearly impossible odds. When rumors spread that the transition program would be ending and children might be sent back to families unprepared to receive them, Jen knew she had to act. She worked with a local Sierra Leonean NGO, Child and Family Permanency Services, to create a program to assist care leavers suddenly facing life outside the institution with no supports.
Named in honor of her mother who never gave up hope that her grandchildren would come home, Mamaw's House now provides comprehensive support to young adults leaving orphanage care. Managed as a program of an established organization that provides family strengthening, child reintegration and child protection services, Mamaw's House offers care leavers from Sierra Leone orphanages continuing education, connections to find basic housing and necessary services, mentorship from former care leavers, life skills training, and mental health services. Within its first year, it has already helped over 20 young adults.
As Sierra Leone considers legislation to close orphanages entirely, Mamaw's House stands ready to expand its crucial work. "I think their stories are going to be v
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Travel on International Mission, meet local leadership and work alongside them. Exchange knowledge, learn from one another and be open to personal transformation. Step into a 25 year long story of change for children in some of the poorest regions on Earth.
https://www.helpingchildrenworldwide.org/mission-trips.html
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A bible study for groups and individuals, One Twenty-Seven: The Widow and the Orphan by Dr Andrea Siegel explores the themes of the first chapter of James, and in particular, 1:27. In James, we learn of our duty to the vulnerable in the historical context of the author. Order here or digital download
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Family Empowerment Advocates support the work of family empowerment experts at the Child Reintegration Centre, Sierra Leone. Your small monthly donation, prayers, attention & caring is essential. You advocate for their work to help families bring themselves out of poverty, changing the course of children's lives and lifting up communities. join
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Optimistic Voices, A Child's View, where
we share incredible stories ofresilience and hope through the
eyes of children.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm Natalie Turner, and this is my co-host, melody
Curtis.
Together, we'll talk about realkids who face tough challenges
and the amazing people whohelped them find a brighter
future.
Jen Conrad, a mother of five,three of whom were born under
her heart and two of whom wereborn in heart through adoption.
(00:39):
Jen holds a master's degreefrom the University of Southern
California, a focus on militaryfamilies.
She has spent the last 13 yearsin the online marketing and
community building space.
Her love for Sierra Leone beganwith sponsorship and she made
multiple trips to the countryfrom 2015 to 2020.
(01:01):
In 2019, jen and her husbandexpressed their interest in
adopting with the Ministry ofSocial Welfare.
After multiple attempts, therequest for United States visas
by USCIS were denied and her twochildren, now young adults,
have to remain in Sierra Leone.
Jen felt a passion to find asolution to equip those released
(01:25):
from institutional care so thatthey can become self-sufficient
.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Let's welcome today's guest, Jen Conrad, founder of
the MAMAS House Program of Childand Family Permanency Services
in Sierra Leone.
Program of Child and FamilyPermanency Services in Sierra
Leone.
Jen, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Hello, thank you guys for having me and for that
great introduction.
You covered a lot, natalie, soI'm not going to go ahead and
repeat myself, but I'm tuning infrom Central Illinois.
Yes, I'm the mom of five, I amthe wife to a recently retired
Sergeant Major of the MarineCorps and, yeah, I'm here to
(02:12):
really talk to you guys aboutMAMOS House and my passion for
helping kids that have been ininstitutional care orphanages
into independent living.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
We can't wait to hear all you have to share about
MAMOS House.
Before we dive in, though, canyou tell us a little bit about
yourself and your connection tothe children in this story?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, so I first got introduced to Sierra Leone when
I was in the online businessspace.
One of my friends at the timehad shared that she had an
orphanage that she ran and thatshe was looking for sponsors,
and that sponsorship program wasto help with the basic needs of
the children, their education,and you also had the ability to
Skype and to createrelationships with these kids,
(02:49):
and so I always wanted more kids.
But if I told you the age of mykids, there's a big span.
My husband was a Marine and hewas gone a lot of times.
So my oldest is 26, almost 26.
And my youngest just turned 14.
And so we have one in themiddle and we wanted more kids,
(03:13):
but that just didn't happen.
And so when I found out that Icould bring another child into
our home through sponsorship, Iwas super excited, and so I
signed up as a sponsor to alittle boy and I would get to
jump on and have a Skype sessionwith him once a month on a
Saturday, got to kind of get toknow him.
We struggled through thelanguage barrier, but I got to
watch him grow up, and after westarted having those
(03:34):
conversations, my family wouldjoin us and they got to know him
as well, and so I was invitedthen to start traveling with
this group, with a group ofwomen who were just like me, who
were in the online businessspace, who were sponsors, who
were asked to come over and loveon the kids that they had
sponsored.
And so at the time, adoptionwas never on my radar.
(03:58):
It was just not something thatwe did in our little town.
It just didn't happen.
And so I was totally fine beinga sponsor, a sponsor to one
little boy.
And then on my first trip, I methis sister.
I kind of understood he had asister, but I really didn't
understand until I got there.
(04:19):
And when I met his sister, shewas the only little girl
actually only child in the wholeorphanage that had glasses, and
both of my boys little boyswore glasses when they were
little, and so I just had thislike, oh my goodness, I looked
at her eyes and her eyes lookedlike my boys and I'm like you
(04:40):
are my daughter, you aresupposed to be mine, and I was
like where did that come from?
But I kind of just tucked itaway and my sponsorship of one
turned to a sponsorship of two,and now our monthly Skypes was
with both our son and ourdaughter and I just got to know
(05:01):
both of them and so when Itraveled they were both so
excited to see me and buildrelationships with me and things
like that, and so that went onfor several years.
We did the sponsorship program.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
That tells us a lot about your relationship and how
it developed with the children.
If we can begin with the childstory and take us back to, how
did they get to the orphanage inthe first place?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
So a lot of what we found out about the children's
history didn't really come uptill the adoption process, and
understandably, because therewas confidentiality and things
like that.
But what we found out was thatthe mom was pretty young, dad
was older and mom left the homeand so the children were left
with dad to care for them, plusa nephew.
I believe that his brotherpassed away, leaving a nephew
(05:49):
with him in his care, and sowhat we have found out is that a
lot of times orphanages will goand they will promise education
, they will promise a betterlife, they will promise food and
things like that, and I reallythink that a struggling father
there in Sierra Leone that was avery that just felt like a
really good thing to do, Maybenot realizing they were ever
(06:09):
going to be there forever orcould be adopted or anything
like that, but that's how theyended up into the orphanage.
So they were probably one ofthe first set of siblings, I
believe, that had been in theorphanage of siblings.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I believe that had been in the orphanage.
So how old were each of yourchildren at the time and how did
they cope with everything beingin the orphanage and being
separated from their father?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah, so from what I gather they were about six and
three and so they really haven'tshared a lot about that.
I don't know that they reallyremember a whole lot.
Before the orphanage we wereall together during court which
we'll get into later but theywere very standoffish.
(06:55):
Even mom rode in the car withus.
They really weren't encouragedto have a relationship while
they were in the orphanage,encouraged to have a
relationship while they were inthe orphanage, and I don't know
that.
Dad visited many times beforeactual court, maybe twice, and
mom maybe a couple times too.
So all they've ever reallyknown was the orphanage, their
(07:20):
brothers and sisters there, theaunties, and they're sponsors
really.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
You refer to these children as yours and you've
mentioned the court, and this isnot a situation of a child
sponsorship where the sponsor issaying that they're the child's
parent, when what they reallyare is a donor and a supporter,
and I know this because of ourfriendship, but our listeners do
(07:48):
not, and they know, if they'velistened to our podcast before,
they know how we feel aboutchild sponsorship here, and I
know this is not that situation.
So can you share with ourlisteners a little bit about the
actual situation that you haveand why you call these children
(08:12):
your children?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yes, exactly.
So at the beginning I kind ofexpressed that man, I wanted
more kids and I felt like, hey,sponsorship's a way to add more
children to our family.
So, yes, I can see how there'sconfusion with that, because
there are a lot of sponsors outthere that the sponsor, the
kiddos, call sponsors, mom anddad.
But yes, these are truly ourkids.
We were asked to adopt if wehad a heart for adoption.
(08:37):
After our kids we found outlater that our kids actually had
a failed adoption attempt.
Later that our kids actuallyhad a failed adoption attempt,
that there was another familythat had sponsored them before
us and had intentions ofadopting them.
That mom, that mom that wantedto adopt, ended up getting
diagnosed with cancer and endedup passing away.
(08:58):
And so she ended up passingaway shortly after my second
trip over there, and when theywere kind of closing the
adoption file, and so they thecountry director at the time
came to me and just said, jen,you know what?
We are trying to figure out apermanency plan for these kids
about what comes next and do youhave a heart for adoption?
(09:19):
And, like I said at thebeginning, adoption was
something that just ourcommunity, our friends, our
network just really didn't do,especially in international
adoption.
And so, you know, I had fallenin love with these kids, but my
husband had only fallen in lovewith them just over Skype.
And so I told the countrydirector at the time that, you
(09:41):
know, I feel really that it's ayes, but I don't ever want to
say yes without my husbandgetting to meet these kids first
, and I want him to feel what Ifeel.
And so I told them that Icouldn't give them an answer
until my husband got back fromhis trip and he actually had a
trip scheduled right around thetime that we started this
discussion and so I just toldhim that you know, I want you to
(10:02):
go, I want you to go with anopen mind, I want you to see if
you see what I see, Just like Isaid that I saw my daughter and
I looked at her and she hadglasses and I just knew she was
our daughter, and he completelywent over and fell in love with
them and he was like, absolutelyyes, like we have to try.
Another component of our storywas that our son was getting
(10:25):
ready to age out, and so in thecountry of Sierra Leone, you age
out of orphan care at the ageof 16, and you're not allowed to
be adopted at that point.
But because our son had asibling in the orphanage, we
were able to extend that to theage of 17.
So, mind you, all of this wascoming up super, super close to
(10:45):
his 17th birthday.
We had to get to court by his17th birthday and he was about
ready to.
He would have turned 17 inApril of 2020.
And so we had to be in court bythat date, otherwise everything
would fall apart.
And so we got a lot ofresistance actually from our
(11:06):
agency, because they're like youknow, we just don't know if we
can make this happen.
You know, we have to do allthis investigating and we've got
to put everything together andwe've got to make sure it can
get to court.
And so we were like we have totry, we have to try.
We fundraised the money.
We're like we have to try, wehave to try.
(11:27):
We fundraised the money.
We had supporters locking armswith us and we were like we're
just going to do it.
And so we ended up in theadoption process in 2019.
And we found out it was rightafter Christmas of 2019.
So it would have been January2020 that our file had made it
(11:47):
to the high court of SierraLeone and was ready to be, was
ready to go to court.
Hi, this is Jen Conrad fromMammoth's House, and we could
use your help to continue thework that we're doing in Sierra
Leone.
We are on a mission to recruit60 volunteers to join us as
(12:09):
advocates.
Your monthly donation will goto help us to equip care leavers
with their basic necessities,their education and the ability
to transition seamlessly intoindependence by going to
wwwcfpsslorg.
(12:32):
And so, like I had just said, wehad to be through court by
April of 2020.
And so we got about a week'snotice that one or both of us
needed to appear in court and Idecided to go.
My husband stayed back, so Idecided to go.
I flew across on the 36 hoursof travel that it takes there's
(12:55):
no direct flight from the US toSierra Leone and I did it the
first time all by myself, and Iwas like what am I doing?
I'm staying in a hotel bymyself.
Like you know, it was totallylike a God thing.
It was like I was beingdirected and protected the whole
time.
Because that's not me.
I'm an introvert.
I have anxiety, you know.
(13:16):
I don't know it.
Just you do what you're goingto do for your children.
Anxiety, you know, I don't knowit.
Just you do what you're goingto do for your children.
And so I went over to court in,like I said, january of 2019.
The parents showed up and momwent with us, dad showed up with
us at court.
It was very awkward because I,at the time, I was kind of led
(13:37):
to believe that they just, youknow, as a I didn't understand
what they were going through andI just thought it was like an
abandonment thing.
I didn't understand that maybethey had no choice or maybe they
just no one ever explained tothem really what could happen.
And so there was just very,just, cordial.
You know, we went to court andthe judge came down really hard
(14:01):
on the dad and the mom, butmostly on the dad like
understanding what?
Do you understand what thismeans?
You're not going to see yourchildren again, you're not going
to be able to have them in yourlives and blah, blah, blah,
which we had always like, wewanted them to have a connection
at that time, but they had tomake sure that they understood
what this meant.
So, yeah, I was in thecourtroom the only American,
(14:23):
probably within the whole partof that country, if in the
country, I don't know, but itwas.
I was very out of place thereand we went through court and we
had to hear like four or fivecases before us, just like civil
cases, so it was a very longday.
But, yeah, the court, the judge, didn't blink twice.
(14:44):
After that he granted me theirguardianship and we believed
that we were going to bring themhome at that time.
Well then, we all know whathappened in March.
The pandemic hit March of 2020.
Our world shut down.
So, luckily, we had been ablewe were getting ready to start
(15:07):
the whole process of our visaapplication At that time, right
after we got back from court, wefound out that our actual
agency that took us through thewhole process lost their
accreditation and so they nolonger could apply for visas for
us, and so we had to find animmigration attorney, and this
(15:31):
was all happening during COVID.
We had to find an immigrationattorney that would, first of
all, have a specialty of workingin Sierra Leone, but also would
take the liability of anadoption case that she did not
see to court, and so we finallyfound a lawyer that was willing
to take our case, who reallybelieved that we could get them
(15:53):
visas.
And she told us it's going totake me some time.
I've got to do my due diligence.
And she told us it's going totake me some time.
I've got to do my due diligence, I've got to.
It's probably going to takeeight months or longer.
So she sat on our file eightmonths probably and we started
then filing for I-600.
(16:25):
As soon as we filed for I-600,requesting that they get visas
to be brought to the UnitedStates for submitting all of our
documentation, we were denied.
And the denial came back thatbecause the relinquishment of
rights of the children were donefor an adoption, that could be
seen as a form of trafficking,seen as a form of trafficking.
So had the children, had theparents' rights been
relinquished whenever they werebrought into the orphanage, this
might've been a totallydifferent case, but literally
(16:46):
our children were brought intothis orphanage.
The parents could haveliterally picked them up at any
time and brought them back homewith them.
There was no relinquishment ofrights, and so we appealed that
and we shared that.
This just isn't common practicewithin the orphanage, within
the culture even that we found,and you know, and we were denied
(17:08):
again, and so every time youhave to resubmit, you're paying
a lawyer, you're paying the fees.
And then we had one more chanceand submitted even more things,
and submitted even more thingsand we were told it's just not
going to happen.
It's not going to happen, andso basically, we didn't know
what to do next.
We didn't know.
Now we were going to beparenting two teenagers across
(17:32):
the ocean.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
So I imagine this was a very stressful and uncertain
time for you and your family,and I want to hear about what
that would be like to parentfrom across the ocean, and can
you tell us a little bit moreabout how you were able to do
that?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yeah.
So as soon as we entered intothe adoption process, we were
granted the ability to Skypewith them every Saturday morning
, have conversations up untilCOVID.
Once COVID hit, they stoppedSkype.
We were told that it wasbecause they didn't have the
staff to bring in.
I mean, all the funny thingshappened during COVID right Like
(18:14):
the playground across thestreet was closed down here.
Crazy things happened to COVID.
We didn't know how to cope.
But Skype stopped for a while,and so our attorney, though, got
involved and said you know what?
They're trying to bring thesechildren home.
They need to have communication.
They cannot just be not talkingto these kids for months at a
time.
They're trying to build arelationship to integrate them
into their home.
And so we were finally grantedpermission, even though we were
(18:37):
the only adoptive parents inthat situation.
But we had to be quiet about it, because if any donors caught
wind that we were talking to ourchildren, privileges would be
taken away, and so, at one pointor another, something got out.
Our privileges were taken awayagain until the process for
everyone was opened back up, andso I did have a problem with
(18:59):
that, because they were ourchildren.
It's not very easy to parent ifyou can't have communication
with your children.
But we just kind of played bythe rules because we were still
trying to fight to get them homeand then, once everything
closed down, once we got thefinal this is not happening.
Things really weren't different.
Nobody came to us and said youknow, OK, this is what happening
(19:20):
.
Things really weren't different.
Nobody came to us and said, youknow, okay, this is what we
need to do, or we're here tohelp you with this.
You know, we were only allowedto communicate with them that
Saturday morning at 7am, which Idid for years, which almost
became like a chore for us, tobe honest, you know, it was just
something we did and it becamevery robotic and I think it was
stressful for all of us, and soI just really desired to be able
(19:42):
to have like an honestconversation with them, or them
to be able to reach out to us,reach out like if they wanted to
talk, you know.
But that just wasn't.
We didn't have that ability.
So it was very very difficult,jen.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
So I'm hearing you say that in Sierra Leone, the
government had identified thesechildren as being exclusively
your children, but in the UnitedStates they were identified as
not your children and in themeantime they were living in an
orphanage and they were beingtreated as if your relationship
(20:20):
with them was still that as adonor?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yes, exactly, and we found out later that they still
had sponsors and things likethat coming in during the whole
process.
So their life didn't change myrelation.
I didn't get reports on school.
I only got one phone call whenthere was an incident with our
son, just telling us what washappening, not even bringing us
in and things like that.
(20:44):
So we were kept really at anarm's distance, not encouraged
to be any more involved than wewere.
So we really knew that weneeded to do something.
Our son was in a program thatwas supposed to be helping them
transition from orphan care intoindependent living.
Our daughter had not beentransitioned.
(21:05):
Our son actually was onlyplaced there because of a
behavioral issue, not evenbecause that was the next step
for him, and so they weren'teven living together.
One was at this one place, onewas at the other.
They weren't even well, theywere at the same school for a
while, yes, until our sonstarted university, but they
weren't even together.
So that was a huge concern forme because they had literally
(21:29):
been together.
I mean, that's all they had waseach other.
And so, you know, this went onfor a little while during COVID.
I lost my mom shortly afterCOVID hit and my mom actually in
2022.
So we had our final like my momstill right before she died
like was like you guys are goingto bring these kids home, like
we were still doing this up into2022.
And I felt really alone becausethere was nobody else in my
(21:54):
shoes.
There was not an anotheradoptive mom who was sitting
there with kids in an orphanageand trying to navigate this.
I couldn't hop on a plane to goand do this because, first of
all, I didn't know where tostart.
Number two, I'm not even surethat I would have been given
access to them.
I just really felt like my handswere tied and so, luckily, I
(22:17):
was introduced to you all at HCW.
You all were like the best offriends for me.
You sat with me, you listenedto me and my friend Katie, who
we will talk about here in justa little while that she had one
I had met in Sierra Leone, was acountry director.
You guys all sat with me whenno one else really would,
(22:38):
because everyone had kind ofcarried on.
They either adopted or they hadlost interest or whatever.
You guys all sat with me whenno one else really would,
because everyone had kind ofcarried on.
They either adopted or they hadlost interest or whatever, and
so I just was like, okay, ifit's this hard for me to figure
this out as an adoptive mom,what is going to happen to these
other kids who don't havesomebody to advocate for
themselves, that are going toage out?
Who's going to help them?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
But this is where the story starts to turn around.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, definitely.
So I mentioned, you know,partnering then with HCW and I'm
sitting on calls for me withhours and hours and
communication of emails andthings like that and my friend
Katie just a fun coincidence Ijust love to share is that we
were both in Sierra Leone and wewere both from small town,
illinois not the same town, butnot too far from each other.
That was really cool.
And so my friend Katie marriedan Irishman and they had a heart
(23:28):
for Sierra Leone and you can golisten we should drop their
podcast in the show notes, butthey're doing amazing work Even
before I was even introduced tothem.
But they really had a heart forkeeping families together and
for giving families the toolsthey needed so that their
children wouldn't end up inorphanages like my children were
(23:48):
.
If someone would have been ableto step in and say no, like
let's help you, let's figurethis out, let's you know, this
is what it is to be a dad andthis is how we can get you some
income and help with thosethings, I think our kids would
have been in a totally differentsituation.
And so Katie introduced me toher husband, johnny.
He started sharing with meabout their program, their
(24:10):
program, cfps, child and FamilyPermanency Services I had just
told him my vision.
I said look, johnny, you know Iam a mom of these kids and I
don't have any more rights thananybody else.
We started hearing rumors thatthe program that my son was in
that was supposed to betransitioning these kids was
going to be coming to an end,and so that meant there was
(24:33):
probably going to be at the time, maybe 18 kids in that same
situation, and we were like whatis going to happen to them?
And so we started hearing thatthe plan for the orphanage was
to reunite them with theirfamilies, and I told you before
that my children had limitedcontact with their parents.
My social work background tellsme that's not a good idea.
(24:56):
You cannot just take a childthat's been in orphan care and
throw them back into a village.
And so I've learned through allthis whole process.
I've read books, I've watchedpodcasts, I've watched
interviews of children who havebeen in orphanages, who then
were encouraged to go back totheir villages, and how they
felt like aliens, how thefamilies thought that they had
(25:18):
to feed them differently, howthey felt like aliens, how the
families thought that they hadto feed them differently, how
they felt like they had to getthem different clothing, how
they felt like they needed tosleep in a different place.
You know, when they came intothe orphanage, they lost their
tribal beliefs.
Many of them lose theirreligions At the orphanage.
They were to become Christianand we found out that what over
(25:41):
90% of the population in SierraLeone is actually Muslim, so
these kids are ripped away fromthe religion, not to mention
there's tribal languages andbeliefs and all of those things.
And so once we started hearingthat, oh my gosh, like I can't
imagine my kids having to goback into a village, like this
(26:02):
cannot happen.
And if this can't happen for mykids and I'm here to help
support them and navigate themthrough this process what's
going to happen to these kidsthat just have sponsors?
And, like we had talked aboutearlier, you know a lot of the
sponsors that became involvedwith these kids, like they did
become part of their lives.
They became a part of their.
They were their children, right, and so they were willing to do
(26:24):
whatever was necessary in orderto help support, realizing that
their hands have been tied allalong as well, but they wanted
to help.
They didn't want to see areintegration, going back to a
family who wasn't prepared totake them and weren't prepared
to take them 15 years ago, youknow.
And so I just started like likekind of visioning, like what
(26:47):
does this look like?
There were more resourcesavailable for someone that's
coming out of a prison in SierraLeone than a child who has to
transition from institutionalcare to independent living.
The things that I thought thatmy son was getting was, you know
, he was getting educated, whichI'm so blessed by that.
All these kids are super smartand super educated, so that was
amazing that they did so,blessed by that.
(27:08):
All these kids are super smartand super educated, so that was
amazing that they did followthrough with that.
But life skills how to navigatethe streets of Sierra Leone,
how to I mean, they've had tolearn, like how to carry their
own money and budgeting, and nowthey've got cell phones and,
you know, sex education and allof these little things that we
(27:28):
kind of would take for grantedthat they're getting they didn't
have.
And so my mom wanted nothingmore than to get these kids home
.
She knew she would never travelto Sierra Leone, but she got to
know them through my storiesand my travels and talking to
them, sometimes on Skype andthings like that.
And, like I said, we lost herin 2022 and she still was
(27:49):
holding onto the promise thatthese kids are coming home, like
, don't give up, don't give up.
I was like, okay, we need tocreate a program and the program
is going to be called Mamaw'sHouse.
So my mom was Mamaw to my kids.
I wanted to honor her in theprocess.
So Mamaw's House to my familyhas always been a place of
comfort, a place to kind of getaway, a kind of place to rest
(28:10):
and, you know, just to be pouredinto you like a grandma does,
right, a grandma pours into you.
And so my mama's house was aplace that I went when my
husband was off in war and Iwould take my boy well, one boy
at the time and it would be ourplace to get away.
So we didn't have to deal withthe day-to-day to rest, to go to
the beach, go to the pool, doall the things.
And so when I started thinkingabout what I wanted this program
(28:34):
to look like, I wanted it to bea place where these young
adults could come and findcomfort, who could come and find
themselves, who they reallywere, and they had been told all
the time what to do and how todo it, and they were very
limited on the worldly outreach,and so we wanted to create a
(28:56):
place where they had mentorship,where they had guidance, where
they could make mistakes asyoung adults and have someone to
explain to them like no, thisis not the direction you need to
go.
Or we also realized that many ofthese kids never had any
therapy and we had kids thatcame from mudslides.
(29:18):
We had kids that came fromlosing parents, drowning.
You know, luckily my childrendidn't go through something like
that, but they have lived theirwhole life away from a parent,
wondering why my parents gave meup, and then they went through
(29:38):
two failed adoptions and so youknow they needed to have some
mental health care there.
So, part of this process, wewanted to equip them, like I
said, with a mentor, somebodythat had come out of
institutional care, becausenobody knows that better than
someone that's been through it.
So we wanted to equip them withtheir continuing education
(30:02):
because, like I said, so my sonwas.
He was in university when hegot out of the institution.
He was able to continue in hisuniversity with our help, but we
wanted to give them budgetingand life skills.
The girls didn't know how to usesome feminine products and
feminine hygiene and all thethings, and so we wanted to make
sure that they were equippedwith the basic tools of how to
(30:24):
live independently, because weknew if they were just let off
like the cycle will not break.
Pregnancies are going to happen.
You know they're going to feellike they can't take care of
them and they were raised in anorphanage.
So I'm just going to take mychild to an orphanage and so we
don't break the cycle that way,and so we didn't want this
(30:46):
program to become a place thatthey're constantly going to be
relied upon.
We're giving them thefoundation and the skills with
the plan that we can transitionthem off.
Some kids my daughter was thevery first one that entered into
Mama's house last summer June,may, june.
You know she's on the youngerside, so she won't be yet ready
(31:07):
to transition off in a year.
Younger side, so she won't beyet ready to transition off in a
year.
But we do have some older youngadults who very much will be
able to transition in a year orbecome mentors for others that
come into the program.
There is legislation and talkgoing on about closing
orphanages in the country ofSierra Leone.
So if that happens, we're goingto need much more support
(31:29):
within the program becausethere's going to be many more
young adults.
I can see the minors actuallygoing more towards the CFPS side
, you know, helping the familiesto really become, you know,
stable so that they can startrebuilding their families,
because they haven't beenencouraged to have those
relationships.
I am so unbelievably surprisedat how well my children have
(31:53):
integrated.
I thought that my son wants toask me lots of questions and so
I thought he would be texting meall the time.
But then I had to give him theconfidence of like it's okay,
you're an adult, you get to makethese decisions.
And so the parenting came fromafar, through technology.
We actually really haven't hada whole lot of like phone
(32:17):
conversations, which ishilarious because that's how we
built.
Our relationship was with Skype.
But now that they could typeand they can voice message, like
that's what they do, and I hadto encourage my son like he'll
message me and he'll say mom andthat's it.
And I'm like okay, we live onhow many hours apart?
If you want to have aconversation, just tell me what
(32:38):
you need.
We can continue to have thisconversation.
So we've had to learn thingslike that.
But they are finding their ownway, their own paths.
And one thing that reallybrought me so much joy so now
we've helped over 20 youngadults and we've been in this
inception.
It was January of 2024 is whenour program first started even
(33:02):
getting talked about.
Like I said, we had brought inour first group of kids.
It was like May, june, july oflast year, first group of kids.
It was like May, june, july oflast year, and it was really
fast because the orphanage didlet children go back to families
and those kids were like theydon't have a bed for me, they
don't have a room for me,they're not prepared for me.
(33:23):
And then, realizing that theywere young adults, they could
make their own decisions, theycame asking like how can you
help me?
And so, luckily, because wepartnered with CFPS, they
already had establishedcaseworkers, they already had
social workers, they already hadmental health workers and then
(33:44):
they had worked very closelythen with HCW to really
establish that foundation.
So we were able to seamlessly Imean we were in like a crisis
mode for a while Like what arewe going to do?
We got to find homes and youwould think you can't understand
as an American that you can'tjust go and rent a house or an
apartment, like it's really,really hard to find a place
(34:05):
that's safe and suitable but aplace that they also could
manage if they didn't havemultiple advocates giving money
for, but also they require liketwo years in advance of rent and
so there's all of these hurdlesthat we had to do just to even
find places.
(34:27):
So our girls have been actuallyhoused at a place that CFPS has
had and it's been so fun towatch them just like come
together and grow togetherindependently.
Then our boys have been closerto university campus and I think
(34:47):
it comes down to empowermentempowering the care leavers with
the tools so that they cancarry those over, but also,
again, like I said, the workthat CFPS is doing with
empowering the family to staytogether, and that starts with
providing education, providingtools, providing resources.
They just don't know what theydon't know, and so we get to be
that middle person to help themkind of navigate Sounds like
(35:11):
you've already done a lot forthese young people who were
released from orphanages withoutanywhere to go.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Do you have any plans in the future to open Mamaw's
house to new care leavers whohave no place to go, you know,
as legislation changes?
Before Natalie wraps us up withher note of optimism for the
episode, jen, what makes youoptimistic?
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Yeah, I mean I am very optimistic about the future
for those that are in ourprogram.
My kids have really surprisedme with their resilience and
I've seen this with the otheryoung adults who have come in as
well.
It's gone really, really well.
Of course, we've had a couple.
You're gonna have issues withyoung adults and things like
that, but I feel like we'regonna be able to really break
(35:56):
that cycle and I think that wasmy intention.
Going through.
This is that, like I said, ourkids they're very Americanized
for because they lived in aninstitution that was led by
Americans, they were used tohaving Americans come and visit
and things like that, and so I'mreally, really optimistic that
they're gonna be able to be apart of this change.
That happens especially whenlegislation stops allowing the
(36:20):
intakes of more so-calledorphans.
Many of them were not evenorphans.
So I think that their storiesare gonna be very powerful and
I'm really hoping that soonwe'll have some young care
leavers that can come on andshare their stories with you all
, because I think you will betotally blown away with just
like their perspective.
But I'm really, reallyencouraged that they're going to
(36:41):
be able to break the cycle andbe a part of this change in the
next I'm hoping five, less thanfive years.
Yeah, I mean orphanages need tostop.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, first off, jen, I love that your story is your
firsthand experience with this,that this has affected your
children and you, so I think mynote of optimism from your story
is that people see a need.
You saw a need and you tookaction, and I love that we are,
(37:12):
as a society and globally,seeing a need and doing
something about it and reallyhelp these children over in
Sierra Leone.
Thank you, thank you, jen, forsharing this incredible story
and thank you, listeners, forjoining us today on Optimistic
Voices A Child's View.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
And if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to
subscribe, share it with yourfriends and leave a rating and
review.
Check our show notes so thatyou can learn a little bit more
about Mamaw's house and the workthey're doing and maybe get
engaged with this mission andthis work for the youth of
(37:57):
Sierra Leone.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Until next time, remember there's always hope in
every voice matters.
Bye for now.
Welcome to Optimistic Voices, A Child's View, where
we share incredible stories ofresilience and hope through the
eyes of children.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm Natalie Turner, and this is my co-host, melody
Curtis.
Together, we'll talk about realkids who face tough challenges
and the amazing people whohelped them find a brighter
future.
Jen Conrad, a mother of five,three of whom were born under
her heart and two of whom wereborn in heart through adoption.
(00:39):
Jen holds a master's degreefrom the University of Southern
California, a focus on militaryfamilies.
She has spent the last 13 yearsin the online marketing and
community building space.
Her love for Sierra Leone beganwith sponsorship and she made
multiple trips to the countryfrom 2015 to 2020.
(01:01):
In 2019, jen and her husbandexpressed their interest in
adopting with the Ministry ofSocial Welfare.
After multiple attempts, therequest for United States visas
by USCIS were denied and her twochildren, now young adults,
have to remain in Sierra Leone.
Jen felt a passion to find asolution to equip those released
(01:25):
from institutional care so thatthey can become self-sufficient
.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Let's welcome today's guest, Jen Conrad, founder of
the MAMAS House Program of Childand Family Permanency Services
in Sierra Leone.
Program of Child and FamilyPermanency Services in Sierra
Leone.
Jen, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Hello, thank you guys for having me and for that
great introduction.
You covered a lot, natalie, soI'm not going to go ahead and
repeat myself, but I'm tuning infrom Central Illinois.
Yes, I'm the mom of five, I amthe wife to a recently retired
Sergeant Major of the MarineCorps and, yeah, I'm here to
(02:12):
really talk to you guys aboutMAMOS House and my passion for
helping kids that have been ininstitutional care orphanages
into independent living.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
We can't wait to hear all you have to share about
MAMOS House.
Before we dive in, though, canyou tell us a little bit about
yourself and your connection tothe children in this story?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, so I first got introduced to Sierra Leone when
I was in the online businessspace.
One of my friends at the timehad shared that she had an
orphanage that she ran and thatshe was looking for sponsors,
and that sponsorship program wasto help with the basic needs of
the children, their education,and you also had the ability to
Skype and to createrelationships with these kids,
(02:49):
and so I always wanted more kids.
But if I told you the age of mykids, there's a big span.
My husband was a Marine and hewas gone a lot of times.
So my oldest is 26, almost 26.
And my youngest just turned 14.
And so we have one in themiddle and we wanted more kids,
(03:13):
but that just didn't happen.
And so when I found out that Icould bring another child into
our home through sponsorship, Iwas super excited, and so I
signed up as a sponsor to alittle boy and I would get to
jump on and have a Skype sessionwith him once a month on a
Saturday, got to kind of get toknow him.
We struggled through thelanguage barrier, but I got to
watch him grow up, and after westarted having those
(03:34):
conversations, my family wouldjoin us and they got to know him
as well, and so I was invitedthen to start traveling with
this group, with a group ofwomen who were just like me, who
were in the online businessspace, who were sponsors, who
were asked to come over and loveon the kids that they had
sponsored.
And so at the time, adoptionwas never on my radar.
(03:58):
It was just not something thatwe did in our little town.
It just didn't happen.
And so I was totally fine beinga sponsor, a sponsor to one
little boy.
And then on my first trip, I methis sister.
I kind of understood he had asister, but I really didn't
understand until I got there.
(04:19):
And when I met his sister, shewas the only little girl
actually only child in the wholeorphanage that had glasses, and
both of my boys little boyswore glasses when they were
little, and so I just had thislike, oh my goodness, I looked
at her eyes and her eyes lookedlike my boys and I'm like you
(04:40):
are my daughter, you aresupposed to be mine, and I was
like where did that come from?
But I kind of just tucked itaway and my sponsorship of one
turned to a sponsorship of two,and now our monthly Skypes was
with both our son and ourdaughter and I just got to know
(05:01):
both of them and so when Itraveled they were both so
excited to see me and buildrelationships with me and things
like that, and so that went onfor several years.
We did the sponsorship program.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
That tells us a lot about your relationship and how
it developed with the children.
If we can begin with the childstory and take us back to, how
did they get to the orphanage inthe first place?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
So a lot of what we found out about the children's
history didn't really come uptill the adoption process, and
understandably, because therewas confidentiality and things
like that.
But what we found out was thatthe mom was pretty young, dad
was older and mom left the homeand so the children were left
with dad to care for them, plusa nephew.
I believe that his brotherpassed away, leaving a nephew
(05:49):
with him in his care, and sowhat we have found out is that a
lot of times orphanages will goand they will promise education
, they will promise a betterlife, they will promise food and
things like that, and I reallythink that a struggling father
there in Sierra Leone that was avery that just felt like a
really good thing to do, Maybenot realizing they were ever
(06:09):
going to be there forever orcould be adopted or anything
like that, but that's how theyended up into the orphanage.
So they were probably one ofthe first set of siblings, I
believe, that had been in theorphanage of siblings.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I believe that had been in the orphanage.
So how old were each of yourchildren at the time and how did
they cope with everything beingin the orphanage and being
separated from their father?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah, so from what I gather they were about six and
three and so they really haven'tshared a lot about that.
I don't know that they reallyremember a whole lot.
Before the orphanage we wereall together during court which
we'll get into later but theywere very standoffish.
(06:55):
Even mom rode in the car withus.
They really weren't encouragedto have a relationship while
they were in the orphanage,encouraged to have a
relationship while they were inthe orphanage, and I don't know
that.
Dad visited many times beforeactual court, maybe twice, and
mom maybe a couple times too.
So all they've ever reallyknown was the orphanage, their
(07:20):
brothers and sisters there, theaunties, and they're sponsors
really.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
You refer to these children as yours and you've
mentioned the court, and this isnot a situation of a child
sponsorship where the sponsor issaying that they're the child's
parent, when what they reallyare is a donor and a supporter,
and I know this because of ourfriendship, but our listeners do
(07:48):
not, and they know, if they'velistened to our podcast before,
they know how we feel aboutchild sponsorship here, and I
know this is not that situation.
So can you share with ourlisteners a little bit about the
actual situation that you haveand why you call these children
(08:12):
your children?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yes, exactly.
So at the beginning I kind ofexpressed that man, I wanted
more kids and I felt like, hey,sponsorship's a way to add more
children to our family.
So, yes, I can see how there'sconfusion with that, because
there are a lot of sponsors outthere that the sponsor, the
kiddos, call sponsors, mom anddad.
But yes, these are truly ourkids.
We were asked to adopt if wehad a heart for adoption.
(08:37):
After our kids we found outlater that our kids actually had
a failed adoption attempt.
Later that our kids actuallyhad a failed adoption attempt,
that there was another familythat had sponsored them before
us and had intentions ofadopting them.
That mom, that mom that wantedto adopt, ended up getting
diagnosed with cancer and endedup passing away.
(08:58):
And so she ended up passingaway shortly after my second
trip over there, and when theywere kind of closing the
adoption file, and so they thecountry director at the time
came to me and just said, jen,you know what?
We are trying to figure out apermanency plan for these kids
about what comes next and do youhave a heart for adoption?
(09:19):
And, like I said at thebeginning, adoption was
something that just ourcommunity, our friends, our
network just really didn't do,especially in international
adoption.
And so, you know, I had fallenin love with these kids, but my
husband had only fallen in lovewith them just over Skype.
And so I told the countrydirector at the time that, you
(09:41):
know, I feel really that it's ayes, but I don't ever want to
say yes without my husbandgetting to meet these kids first
, and I want him to feel what Ifeel.
And so I told them that Icouldn't give them an answer
until my husband got back fromhis trip and he actually had a
trip scheduled right around thetime that we started this
discussion and so I just toldhim that you know, I want you to
(10:02):
go, I want you to go with anopen mind, I want you to see if
you see what I see, Just like Isaid that I saw my daughter and
I looked at her and she hadglasses and I just knew she was
our daughter, and he completelywent over and fell in love with
them and he was like, absolutelyyes, like we have to try.
Another component of our storywas that our son was getting
(10:25):
ready to age out, and so in thecountry of Sierra Leone, you age
out of orphan care at the ageof 16, and you're not allowed to
be adopted at that point.
But because our son had asibling in the orphanage, we
were able to extend that to theage of 17.
So, mind you, all of this wascoming up super, super close to
(10:45):
his 17th birthday.
We had to get to court by his17th birthday and he was about
ready to.
He would have turned 17 inApril of 2020.
And so we had to be in court bythat date, otherwise everything
would fall apart.
And so we got a lot ofresistance actually from our
(11:06):
agency, because they're like youknow, we just don't know if we
can make this happen.
You know, we have to do allthis investigating and we've got
to put everything together andwe've got to make sure it can
get to court.
And so we were like we have totry, we have to try.
We fundraised the money.
We're like we have to try, wehave to try.
(11:27):
We fundraised the money.
We had supporters locking armswith us and we were like we're
just going to do it.
And so we ended up in theadoption process in 2019.
And we found out it was rightafter Christmas of 2019.
So it would have been January2020 that our file had made it
(11:47):
to the high court of SierraLeone and was ready to be, was
ready to go to court.
Hi, this is Jen Conrad fromMammoth's House, and we could
use your help to continue thework that we're doing in Sierra
Leone.
We are on a mission to recruit60 volunteers to join us as
(12:09):
advocates.
Your monthly donation will goto help us to equip care leavers
with their basic necessities,their education and the ability
to transition seamlessly intoindependence by going to
wwwcfpsslorg.
(12:32):
And so, like I had just said, wehad to be through court by
April of 2020.
And so we got about a week'snotice that one or both of us
needed to appear in court and Idecided to go.
My husband stayed back, so Idecided to go.
I flew across on the 36 hoursof travel that it takes there's
(12:55):
no direct flight from the US toSierra Leone and I did it the
first time all by myself, and Iwas like what am I doing?
I'm staying in a hotel bymyself.
Like you know, it was totallylike a God thing.
It was like I was beingdirected and protected the whole
time.
Because that's not me.
I'm an introvert.
I have anxiety, you know.
(13:16):
I don't know it.
Just you do what you're goingto do for your children.
Anxiety, you know, I don't knowit.
Just you do what you're goingto do for your children.
And so I went over to court in,like I said, january of 2019.
The parents showed up and momwent with us, dad showed up with
us at court.
It was very awkward because I,at the time, I was kind of led
(13:37):
to believe that they just, youknow, as a I didn't understand
what they were going through andI just thought it was like an
abandonment thing.
I didn't understand that maybethey had no choice or maybe they
just no one ever explained tothem really what could happen.
And so there was just very,just, cordial.
You know, we went to court andthe judge came down really hard
(14:01):
on the dad and the mom, butmostly on the dad like
understanding what?
Do you understand what thismeans?
You're not going to see yourchildren again, you're not going
to be able to have them in yourlives and blah, blah, blah,
which we had always like, wewanted them to have a connection
at that time, but they had tomake sure that they understood
what this meant.
So, yeah, I was in thecourtroom the only American,
(14:23):
probably within the whole partof that country, if in the
country, I don't know, but itwas.
I was very out of place thereand we went through court and we
had to hear like four or fivecases before us, just like civil
cases, so it was a very longday.
But, yeah, the court, the judge, didn't blink twice.
(14:44):
After that he granted me theirguardianship and we believed
that we were going to bring themhome at that time.
Well then, we all know whathappened in March.
The pandemic hit March of 2020.
Our world shut down.
So, luckily, we had been ablewe were getting ready to start
(15:07):
the whole process of our visaapplication At that time, right
after we got back from court, wefound out that our actual
agency that took us through thewhole process lost their
accreditation and so they nolonger could apply for visas for
us, and so we had to find animmigration attorney, and this
(15:31):
was all happening during COVID.
We had to find an immigrationattorney that would, first of
all, have a specialty of workingin Sierra Leone, but also would
take the liability of anadoption case that she did not
see to court, and so we finallyfound a lawyer that was willing
to take our case, who reallybelieved that we could get them
(15:53):
visas.
And she told us it's going totake me some time.
I've got to do my due diligence.
And she told us it's going totake me some time.
I've got to do my due diligence, I've got to.
It's probably going to takeeight months or longer.
So she sat on our file eightmonths probably and we started
then filing for I-600.
(16:25):
As soon as we filed for I-600,requesting that they get visas
to be brought to the UnitedStates for submitting all of our
documentation, we were denied.
And the denial came back thatbecause the relinquishment of
rights of the children were donefor an adoption, that could be
seen as a form of trafficking,seen as a form of trafficking.
So had the children, had theparents' rights been
relinquished whenever they werebrought into the orphanage, this
might've been a totallydifferent case, but literally
(16:46):
our children were brought intothis orphanage.
The parents could haveliterally picked them up at any
time and brought them back homewith them.
There was no relinquishment ofrights, and so we appealed that
and we shared that.
This just isn't common practicewithin the orphanage, within
the culture even that we found,and you know, and we were denied
(17:08):
again, and so every time youhave to resubmit, you're paying
a lawyer, you're paying the fees.
And then we had one more chanceand submitted even more things,
and submitted even more thingsand we were told it's just not
going to happen.
It's not going to happen, andso basically, we didn't know
what to do next.
We didn't know.
Now we were going to beparenting two teenagers across
(17:32):
the ocean.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
So I imagine this was a very stressful and uncertain
time for you and your family,and I want to hear about what
that would be like to parentfrom across the ocean, and can
you tell us a little bit moreabout how you were able to do
that?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yeah.
So as soon as we entered intothe adoption process, we were
granted the ability to Skypewith them every Saturday morning
, have conversations up untilCOVID.
Once COVID hit, they stoppedSkype.
We were told that it wasbecause they didn't have the
staff to bring in.
I mean, all the funny thingshappened during COVID right Like
(18:14):
the playground across thestreet was closed down here.
Crazy things happened to COVID.
We didn't know how to cope.
But Skype stopped for a while,and so our attorney, though, got
involved and said you know what?
They're trying to bring thesechildren home.
They need to have communication.
They cannot just be not talkingto these kids for months at a
time.
They're trying to build arelationship to integrate them
into their home.
And so we were finally grantedpermission, even though we were
(18:37):
the only adoptive parents inthat situation.
But we had to be quiet about it, because if any donors caught
wind that we were talking to ourchildren, privileges would be
taken away, and so, at one pointor another, something got out.
Our privileges were taken awayagain until the process for
everyone was opened back up, andso I did have a problem with
(18:59):
that, because they were ourchildren.
It's not very easy to parent ifyou can't have communication
with your children.
But we just kind of played bythe rules because we were still
trying to fight to get them homeand then, once everything
closed down, once we got thefinal this is not happening.
Things really weren't different.
Nobody came to us and said youknow, OK, this is what happening
(19:20):
.
Things really weren't different.
Nobody came to us and said, youknow, okay, this is what we
need to do, or we're here tohelp you with this.
You know, we were only allowedto communicate with them that
Saturday morning at 7am, which Idid for years, which almost
became like a chore for us, tobe honest, you know, it was just
something we did and it becamevery robotic and I think it was
stressful for all of us, and soI just really desired to be able
(19:42):
to have like an honestconversation with them, or them
to be able to reach out to us,reach out like if they wanted to
talk, you know.
But that just wasn't.
We didn't have that ability.
So it was very very difficult,jen.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
So I'm hearing you say that in Sierra Leone, the
government had identified thesechildren as being exclusively
your children, but in the UnitedStates they were identified as
not your children and in themeantime they were living in an
orphanage and they were beingtreated as if your relationship
(20:20):
with them was still that as adonor?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yes, exactly, and we found out later that they still
had sponsors and things likethat coming in during the whole
process.
So their life didn't change myrelation.
I didn't get reports on school.
I only got one phone call whenthere was an incident with our
son, just telling us what washappening, not even bringing us
in and things like that.
(20:44):
So we were kept really at anarm's distance, not encouraged
to be any more involved than wewere.
So we really knew that weneeded to do something.
Our son was in a program thatwas supposed to be helping them
transition from orphan care intoindependent living.
Our daughter had not beentransitioned.
(21:05):
Our son actually was onlyplaced there because of a
behavioral issue, not evenbecause that was the next step
for him, and so they weren'teven living together.
One was at this one place, onewas at the other.
They weren't even well, theywere at the same school for a
while, yes, until our sonstarted university, but they
weren't even together.
So that was a huge concern forme because they had literally
(21:29):
been together.
I mean, that's all they had waseach other.
And so, you know, this went onfor a little while during COVID.
I lost my mom shortly afterCOVID hit and my mom actually in
2022.
So we had our final like my momstill right before she died
like was like you guys are goingto bring these kids home, like
we were still doing this up into2022.
And I felt really alone becausethere was nobody else in my
(21:54):
shoes.
There was not an anotheradoptive mom who was sitting
there with kids in an orphanageand trying to navigate this.
I couldn't hop on a plane to goand do this because, first of
all, I didn't know where tostart.
Number two, I'm not even surethat I would have been given
access to them.
I just really felt like my handswere tied and so, luckily, I
(22:17):
was introduced to you all at HCW.
You all were like the best offriends for me.
You sat with me, you listenedto me and my friend Katie, who
we will talk about here in justa little while that she had one
I had met in Sierra Leone, was acountry director.
You guys all sat with me whenno one else really would,
(22:38):
because everyone had kind ofcarried on.
They either adopted or they hadlost interest or whatever.
You guys all sat with me whenno one else really would,
because everyone had kind ofcarried on.
They either adopted or they hadlost interest or whatever, and
so I just was like, okay, ifit's this hard for me to figure
this out as an adoptive mom,what is going to happen to these
other kids who don't havesomebody to advocate for
themselves, that are going toage out?
Who's going to help them?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
But this is where the story starts to turn around.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, definitely.
So I mentioned, you know,partnering then with HCW and I'm
sitting on calls for me withhours and hours and
communication of emails andthings like that and my friend
Katie just a fun coincidence Ijust love to share is that we
were both in Sierra Leone and wewere both from small town,
illinois not the same town, butnot too far from each other.
That was really cool.
And so my friend Katie marriedan Irishman and they had a heart
(23:28):
for Sierra Leone and you can golisten we should drop their
podcast in the show notes, butthey're doing amazing work Even
before I was even introduced tothem.
But they really had a heart forkeeping families together and
for giving families the toolsthey needed so that their
children wouldn't end up inorphanages like my children were
(23:48):
.
If someone would have been ableto step in and say no, like
let's help you, let's figurethis out, let's you know, this
is what it is to be a dad andthis is how we can get you some
income and help with thosethings, I think our kids would
have been in a totally differentsituation.
And so Katie introduced me toher husband, johnny.
He started sharing with meabout their program, their
(24:10):
program, cfps, child and FamilyPermanency Services I had just
told him my vision.
I said look, johnny, you know Iam a mom of these kids and I
don't have any more rights thananybody else.
We started hearing rumors thatthe program that my son was in
that was supposed to betransitioning these kids was
going to be coming to an end,and so that meant there was
(24:33):
probably going to be at the time, maybe 18 kids in that same
situation, and we were like whatis going to happen to them?
And so we started hearing thatthe plan for the orphanage was
to reunite them with theirfamilies, and I told you before
that my children had limitedcontact with their parents.
My social work background tellsme that's not a good idea.
(24:56):
You cannot just take a childthat's been in orphan care and
throw them back into a village.
And so I've learned through allthis whole process.
I've read books, I've watchedpodcasts, I've watched
interviews of children who havebeen in orphanages, who then
were encouraged to go back totheir villages, and how they
felt like aliens, how thefamilies thought that they had
(25:18):
to feed them differently, howthey felt like aliens, how the
families thought that they hadto feed them differently, how
they felt like they had to getthem different clothing, how
they felt like they needed tosleep in a different place.
You know, when they came intothe orphanage, they lost their
tribal beliefs.
Many of them lose theirreligions At the orphanage.
They were to become Christianand we found out that what over
(25:41):
90% of the population in SierraLeone is actually Muslim, so
these kids are ripped away fromthe religion, not to mention
there's tribal languages andbeliefs and all of those things.
And so once we started hearingthat, oh my gosh, like I can't
imagine my kids having to goback into a village, like this
(26:02):
cannot happen.
And if this can't happen for mykids and I'm here to help
support them and navigate themthrough this process what's
going to happen to these kidsthat just have sponsors?
And, like we had talked aboutearlier, you know a lot of the
sponsors that became involvedwith these kids, like they did
become part of their lives.
They became a part of their.
They were their children, right, and so they were willing to do
(26:24):
whatever was necessary in orderto help support, realizing that
their hands have been tied allalong as well, but they wanted
to help.
They didn't want to see areintegration, going back to a
family who wasn't prepared totake them and weren't prepared
to take them 15 years ago, youknow.
And so I just started like likekind of visioning, like what
(26:47):
does this look like?
There were more resourcesavailable for someone that's
coming out of a prison in SierraLeone than a child who has to
transition from institutionalcare to independent living.
The things that I thought thatmy son was getting was, you know
, he was getting educated, whichI'm so blessed by that.
All these kids are super smartand super educated, so that was
amazing that they did so,blessed by that.
(27:08):
All these kids are super smartand super educated, so that was
amazing that they did followthrough with that.
But life skills how to navigatethe streets of Sierra Leone,
how to I mean, they've had tolearn, like how to carry their
own money and budgeting, and nowthey've got cell phones and,
you know, sex education and allof these little things that we
(27:28):
kind of would take for grantedthat they're getting they didn't
have.
And so my mom wanted nothingmore than to get these kids home
.
She knew she would never travelto Sierra Leone, but she got to
know them through my storiesand my travels and talking to
them, sometimes on Skype andthings like that.
And, like I said, we lost herin 2022 and she still was
(27:49):
holding onto the promise thatthese kids are coming home, like
, don't give up, don't give up.
I was like, okay, we need tocreate a program and the program
is going to be called Mamaw'sHouse.
So my mom was Mamaw to my kids.
I wanted to honor her in theprocess.
So Mamaw's House to my familyhas always been a place of
comfort, a place to kind of getaway, a kind of place to rest
(28:10):
and, you know, just to be pouredinto you like a grandma does,
right, a grandma pours into you.
And so my mama's house was aplace that I went when my
husband was off in war and Iwould take my boy well, one boy
at the time and it would be ourplace to get away.
So we didn't have to deal withthe day-to-day to rest, to go to
the beach, go to the pool, doall the things.
And so when I started thinkingabout what I wanted this program
(28:34):
to look like, I wanted it to bea place where these young
adults could come and findcomfort, who could come and find
themselves, who they reallywere, and they had been told all
the time what to do and how todo it, and they were very
limited on the worldly outreach,and so we wanted to create a
(28:56):
place where they had mentorship,where they had guidance, where
they could make mistakes asyoung adults and have someone to
explain to them like no, thisis not the direction you need to
go.
Or we also realized that many ofthese kids never had any
therapy and we had kids thatcame from mudslides.
(29:18):
We had kids that came fromlosing parents, drowning.
You know, luckily my childrendidn't go through something like
that, but they have lived theirwhole life away from a parent,
wondering why my parents gave meup, and then they went through
(29:38):
two failed adoptions and so youknow they needed to have some
mental health care there.
So, part of this process, wewanted to equip them, like I
said, with a mentor, somebodythat had come out of
institutional care, becausenobody knows that better than
someone that's been through it.
So we wanted to equip them withtheir continuing education
(30:02):
because, like I said, so my sonwas.
He was in university when hegot out of the institution.
He was able to continue in hisuniversity with our help, but we
wanted to give them budgetingand life skills.
The girls didn't know how to usesome feminine products and
feminine hygiene and all thethings, and so we wanted to make
sure that they were equippedwith the basic tools of how to
(30:24):
live independently, because weknew if they were just let off
like the cycle will not break.
Pregnancies are going to happen.
You know they're going to feellike they can't take care of
them and they were raised in anorphanage.
So I'm just going to take mychild to an orphanage and so we
don't break the cycle that way,and so we didn't want this
(30:46):
program to become a place thatthey're constantly going to be
relied upon.
We're giving them thefoundation and the skills with
the plan that we can transitionthem off.
Some kids my daughter was thevery first one that entered into
Mama's house last summer June,may, june.
You know she's on the youngerside, so she won't be yet ready
(31:07):
to transition off in a year.
Younger side, so she won't beyet ready to transition off in a
year.
But we do have some older youngadults who very much will be
able to transition in a year orbecome mentors for others that
come into the program.
There is legislation and talkgoing on about closing
orphanages in the country ofSierra Leone.
So if that happens, we're goingto need much more support
(31:29):
within the program becausethere's going to be many more
young adults.
I can see the minors actuallygoing more towards the CFPS side
, you know, helping the familiesto really become, you know,
stable so that they can startrebuilding their families,
because they haven't beenencouraged to have those
relationships.
I am so unbelievably surprisedat how well my children have
(31:53):
integrated.
I thought that my son wants toask me lots of questions and so
I thought he would be texting meall the time.
But then I had to give him theconfidence of like it's okay,
you're an adult, you get to makethese decisions.
And so the parenting came fromafar, through technology.
We actually really haven't hada whole lot of like phone
(32:17):
conversations, which ishilarious because that's how we
built.
Our relationship was with Skype.
But now that they could typeand they can voice message, like
that's what they do, and I hadto encourage my son like he'll
message me and he'll say mom andthat's it.
And I'm like okay, we live onhow many hours apart?
If you want to have aconversation, just tell me what
(32:38):
you need.
We can continue to have thisconversation.
So we've had to learn thingslike that.
But they are finding their ownway, their own paths.
And one thing that reallybrought me so much joy so now
we've helped over 20 youngadults and we've been in this
inception.
It was January of 2024 is whenour program first started even
(33:02):
getting talked about.
Like I said, we had brought inour first group of kids.
It was like May, june, july oflast year, first group of kids.
It was like May, june, july oflast year, and it was really
fast because the orphanage didlet children go back to families
and those kids were like theydon't have a bed for me, they
don't have a room for me,they're not prepared for me.
(33:23):
And then, realizing that theywere young adults, they could
make their own decisions, theycame asking like how can you
help me?
And so, luckily, because wepartnered with CFPS, they
already had establishedcaseworkers, they already had
social workers, they already hadmental health workers and then
(33:44):
they had worked very closelythen with HCW to really
establish that foundation.
So we were able to seamlessly Imean we were in like a crisis
mode for a while Like what arewe going to do?
We got to find homes and youwould think you can't understand
as an American that you can'tjust go and rent a house or an
apartment, like it's really,really hard to find a place
(34:05):
that's safe and suitable but aplace that they also could
manage if they didn't havemultiple advocates giving money
for, but also they require liketwo years in advance of rent and
so there's all of these hurdlesthat we had to do just to even
find places.
(34:27):
So our girls have been actuallyhoused at a place that CFPS has
had and it's been so fun towatch them just like come
together and grow togetherindependently.
Then our boys have been closerto university campus and I think
(34:47):
it comes down to empowermentempowering the care leavers with
the tools so that they cancarry those over, but also,
again, like I said, the workthat CFPS is doing with
empowering the family to staytogether, and that starts with
providing education, providingtools, providing resources.
They just don't know what theydon't know, and so we get to be
that middle person to help themkind of navigate Sounds like
(35:11):
you've already done a lot forthese young people who were
released from orphanages withoutanywhere to go.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Do you have any plans in the future to open Mamaw's
house to new care leavers whohave no place to go, you know,
as legislation changes?
Before Natalie wraps us up withher note of optimism for the
episode, jen, what makes youoptimistic?
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Yeah, I mean I am very optimistic about the future
for those that are in ourprogram.
My kids have really surprisedme with their resilience and
I've seen this with the otheryoung adults who have come in as
well.
It's gone really, really well.
Of course, we've had a couple.
You're gonna have issues withyoung adults and things like
that, but I feel like we'regonna be able to really break
(35:56):
that cycle and I think that wasmy intention.
Going through.
This is that, like I said, ourkids they're very Americanized
for because they lived in aninstitution that was led by
Americans, they were used tohaving Americans come and visit
and things like that, and so I'mreally, really optimistic that
they're gonna be able to be apart of this change.
That happens especially whenlegislation stops allowing the
(36:20):
intakes of more so-calledorphans.
Many of them were not evenorphans.
So I think that their storiesare gonna be very powerful and
I'm really hoping that soonwe'll have some young care
leavers that can come on andshare their stories with you all
, because I think you will betotally blown away with just
like their perspective.
But I'm really, reallyencouraged that they're going to
(36:41):
be able to break the cycle andbe a part of this change in the
next I'm hoping five, less thanfive years.
Yeah, I mean orphanages need tostop.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, first off, jen, I love that your story is your
firsthand experience with this,that this has affected your
children and you, so I think mynote of optimism from your story
is that people see a need.
You saw a need and you tookaction, and I love that we are,
(37:12):
as a society and globally,seeing a need and doing
something about it and reallyhelp these children over in
Sierra Leone.
Thank you, thank you, jen, forsharing this incredible story
and thank you, listeners, forjoining us today on Optimistic
Voices A Child's View.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
And if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to
subscribe, share it with yourfriends and leave a rating and
review.
Check our show notes so thatyou can learn a little bit more
about Mamaw's house and the workthey're doing and maybe get
engaged with this mission andthis work for the youth of
(37:57):
Sierra Leone.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Until next time, remember there's always hope in
every voice matters.
Bye for now.
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