April 27, 2025 • 44 mins
The differences between persecuted and comfortable Christianity create drastically different faith experiences, as Sunny reveals in this compelling continuation of our conversation in episode 99. Having lived and served in three different continents, Sunny offers rare insights into how comfort—while a blessing from God—can silently become our greatest spiritual danger.
"Comfort can be deadly because there is no dependency," Sunny explains, describing how Western believers often lose their sense of needing God when life feels complete on its own. This spiritual dynamic creates a thin line between remaining on fire for God amid blessing versus slipping into lukewarm faith. The solution? Surrender. "Even if there is no persecution, we can willfully lay all our crowns at the feet of Jesus."
Sunny then takes us inside the realities of Christian life in India, where persecution is intensifying. Services disrupted, pastors arrested, and anti-conversion laws enacted—yet remarkably, the church is growing stronger, bolder, and more united through these trials. Christians now occupy positions of influence across Indian society while maintaining deep humility within their faith communities.
Most provocatively, Sunny distinguishes between external persecution (from governments or other religions) and internal persecution (when believers fight among themselves). "Christianity is the only army that buries their soldiers alive," he observes, suggesting this internal division may be deadlier than any outside opposition.
For Western churches experiencing comfort, Sunny's message resonates as both challenge and hope: we don't need persecution to maintain spiritual fire, but we do need to recognize the subtle ways we've stopped transforming and started depending on our own efforts rather than God's power. This conversation invites us into authentic surrender—the key to thriving spiritually in any circumstance.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nancy Bruscher (00:01):
You've found ordinary people, extraordinary
things, and I'm your host, nancyBrucher.
This is episode 101, and if youhave not heard Sunny's part one
, that's number 99, and I highlyencourage you to listen to that
before you start this one.
Besides doing back-to-backepisodes right now, as we're
(00:21):
celebrating over 100 episodes, Ihave been busy transferring
slides.
Those are those old photos thatyou might have in your basement
, maybe your grandparents'basement, maybe in a closet.
Reach out to me atgenerations2generationscom if I
can help your family to transferthose slides and save those
(00:42):
memories.
Everything we do here is aboutstories, memories and hope and,
without further ado, let's startpart two with Sunny.
Well, welcome to OrdinaryPeople, extraordinary Things.
I'm so blessed to have Sunnyback on.
Thanks for doing another parttwo with us.
Sunny Kapoor (00:58):
My pleasure.
I'm so excited to be here again.
Nancy Bruscher (01:01):
So if you haven't listened to the first
one, you'll need to do that inorder to maybe kind of get
caught up to where we are,because we're just going to dive
in.
But I want to ask you onequestion.
This is kind of a questionpeople say when you think of
Jesus, if you want to end itwith one word, Jesus is how
would you end the sentence?
Sunny Kapoor (01:19):
Jesus is everything, the beginning and
the end, the Alpha and the Omega, the author and the finisher of
our faith.
So everything is in him, forhim, by him, so he's everything.
Nancy Bruscher (01:34):
That's good, that's good.
So we briefly kind of liketouched on and kind of gave a
snippet last time.
There's such a differencebetween the persecuted church,
which was what we might kind ofsee in India, and then the
comfortable church which I wouldsay is for sure the United
States.
Sunny Kapoor (01:53):
There's always been seasons and times when
churches have developed adifferent kind of DNA or vibe
all over the world, and locationdoesn't matter so definitely.
You know, even in the Bible andJesus was writing letters to
different churches you couldeasily see that every church had
(02:16):
a different struggle orlimitation that he pointed out.
So if I have to compareparticularly two nations, that
is, india and the US, I wouldsay, or the Eastern part or the
Western part of the world Iwould say Christianity is easy
on this side and there's a lotof persecution on that side, and
(02:41):
it does create a hugedifference in the outcome.
Yeah, I think if you look atthe persecuted church, even in
the Bible or right now, in 2025,all over the world, those
churches, somehow you'll findthat they are on fire.
(03:01):
They are on fire Becausesomewhere I feel and it's kind
of my experience, walking inthree different continents and
serving in three differentcontinents that comfort can be a
blessing, because Jesus wantsto give us rest and he wants to
give us seasons of rewards.
But then, if it crosses theline, or how do I explain it?
(03:26):
Com comfort also comes with alot of risk.
Am I saying that comfort is bad?
No, comfort is a blessing.
Having no enemy is a blessing.
I mean, king David waspersecuted all his life, and so
much so that by the end of hislife it was like, oh, thank God,
(03:46):
now I don't have enemies.
By the end of it and Solomonliterally said this that my
father had a lot of enemies butI don't have one.
So what I'll do?
I'll invest my time in buildingthe temple for the Lord.
So definitely, having nopersecution is a blessing.
(04:08):
And I'm not also saying that tobe on fire for God you have to
be persecuted.
You can be on fire even in thecomfort.
But what happens is persecutiondoes not give you a choice.
You have to fight, you have tobe on fire.
There's no plan B.
(04:30):
But in comfort you have to makea choice.
You can choose God or you.
You can not choose, not choosehim.
You know so it up and in humantendency is like we choose the
easier part.
So definitely, comfort becomesdeadly because there is no
dependency, you're not leaningon the Lord, you don't need him.
(04:55):
In comfort, you feel your lifeis complete, things are good,
things are smooth, and thensomehow the smoothness of life
becomes the goal or the idol.
You know so we worship our, youknow, the comfort or the
blessing, and it the growth orthe fruit of life which is so
(05:17):
easy to accomplish in some partsof the world.
It's if there's a thin linebetween being on fire in comfort
, or just slipping away, youknow, and just getting cold as a
church or as a body of Christ.
Nancy Bruscher (05:33):
Yeah, I like how you said the word idol, because
I think that if we're lookingat idols in the Old Testament,
we can say, well, I don't have agolden calf, or I didn't raise
this big statue to another God,or I didn't sacrifice my
children to this God, orsomething like that.
But in a way, I feel like theidols that we're facing are a
(05:57):
little bit harder to recognize,which actually, I believe might
make them harder to get out.
Sunny Kapoor (06:05):
Yeah, yeah, so true.
I mean, you know, when we weregrowing up in India, I used to
hear this statement a lot thebig American dream.
I was like what's that?
We don't even know what thisstatement means, but then that
could be one of the idols.
(06:25):
And what happens in a culturewhere it's easy to grow, there's
less persecution, there'sfreedom of thought, speech,
actions.
We can choose to be our God, wecan choose to be the way we
want to be.
I mean, that becomes a veryhard ground for the Lord to rule
(06:49):
the hearts of people.
And you said it very rightly theidol thing is something that
occurs in comfort.
The structure of human beingsare made in a way that we want a
savior.
We need a savior.
We are not just fully completein ourselves.
(07:09):
So anytime we don't need Jesus,we will make some idol.
Because we are made like that,we need it.
We somehow will produce our ownstuff.
And I think when comfort couldbe one of those idols that have
creeped into the churches andlife is pretty easy.
So yeah, it makes sense to me.
Nancy Bruscher (07:32):
The word that came to mind when I was hearing
you was more of a lukewarmChristianity, and I think we
hear that in Revelation ofyou're not hot, you're not cold,
and I wonder if that might bean issue in the United States or
Western, and are you allowed tobe like a really lukewarm
Christian in India, or is it?
I'm?
(07:52):
Either not or I am because ofthe persecution.
You have to truly make adecision.
Sunny Kapoor (08:01):
Yeah, that's a good question and you know, I
just want to make this clear toall our listeners that I mean
we're not.
this conversation is not likewe're judging the community or
this part of like just trying tofigure out what's happening,
because in my first podcast withyou we did talk about the
(08:29):
bleeding that the Lord showed mein the nation and what's
bleeding?
What happens when a person isin less need of God or a savior?
There is this individualisticapproach that arises, that is
birthed inside of us and it'sabout me, my rights, my freedom,
and somehow our hearts focus somuch on me, the me part of life
(08:55):
, and you know, that becomes thebreeding ground of pursuing my
comfort and how I feel and how Ican create my own world where
everything is just perfect.
I'm the God of my world andnothing should, you know, go
(09:19):
against my desires or the way Iwant to plan my life and all
these things.
They create this sense of wemaking our life all about us,
and then selfish motives arise.
Then there is this approach of,you know, just me wanting to
(09:40):
satisfy myself.
You know there's so many realmsattached to why a nation or a
community starts bleedingbecause there is no persecution,
because if there's persecutionyou'll depend on God more and
the Bible says that your faithwill be tested.
(10:01):
I mean, if you allow me to readone scripture, paul made such a
fantastic and a bold statementin one of his letters to his
spiritual son, timothy, and in 2Timothy 3, verse number 12, he
said yes, and all who desire tolive godly in Christ Jesus will
suffer persecution Like.
(10:23):
According to him, persecutionis a good thing and it's a sign
that you are going against whatyou want to do in life.
Or you are putting yourselfdown, or you are putting your
crowns at the feet of Jesus andyou're telling him the Lord,
it's not me who's the boss of mylife or the God of my life, but
(10:46):
you are the Lord and the wordthat the Holy Spirit is putting
in my heart in perspective ofyou know your question.
The word is surrender.
Surrender is the key to stillbe on fire and still not make a
mistake as a church, even ifthere is no persecution.
(11:09):
Persecution is allowed by theLord.
But that's not his actual plan.
His actual plan is that hisbride will fall in love with him
.
Even if everything is good,even if you are blessed, even if
you are rewarded, even if youhave no enemy in your life, he
still wants you to be on firefor him.
But the problem is we don'tneed God when everything is good
(11:35):
, so he kind of sometimes allowsthe persecution to come in
because he wants his bride backinto his arms.
Because he wants his bride backinto his arms, so trials and
tribulation and all thechallenges would fall so that we
can pursue him more.
But that's not his initial plan.
That being said, when I readthe Bible and when I look at the
(11:58):
history and even the presenttimes, I feel churches have
grown.
The kingdom has grown in thetimes of persecution.
So persecution is always ablessing.
If you don't allow the spirit offear to operate in us, if you
allow the spirit of fear to fallon you, you won't grow.
(12:20):
You will, in fact quit.
And that's what the word says,that one of the signs of the end
days is that the love of manypeople will get cold and a lot
of people will deny their faith.
Why?
Because persecution willincrease in the end times and
those who will allow the spiritof fear to grip their hearts
(12:41):
will deny fighting for theirfaith, they will fall into the
trap of persecution and they'lldeny Jesus, and that their love
for the Lord will get cold.
So I would say surrender is thekey.
We don't, we don't have to askGod to send persecution to the
(13:02):
United States.
We don't have to say, lord, dosomething here as well that you
did there to bring your churchup.
But the message, the correctmessage, should be even if there
is no persecution, we can justwillfully lay all our crowns at
the feet of Jesus and tellourselves we are a nation under
(13:24):
God.
I'm not self-made.
There is no individualisticapproach that I live in.
It's not about me or or what Ifeel, or what I sense is right.
It's about what the Word of Godsays, and we need to surrender
to everything that the Word ofGod says.
Then, automatically, thiscomfort will not be our enemy,
(13:48):
but it will become our blessing,a season of reward in which we
can still build the house of theLord.
We can still do what the Lordwants us to do.
So surrender, I would say, isthe real key in this matter, in
this part of the world.
Nancy Bruscher (14:05):
I really liked how you've talked about this and
not putting down people orraising people up, but just
saying like this is where we are, this is where this part of the
world is, this is where this is, and I have really appreciated
that.
Thank you for saying that.
Could you share?
What is it like to be aChristian in India?
(14:27):
What is it like to try to putup churches?
What is the persecution there?
What does the government allow,not allow?
There's a lot of questionsright there.
Sunny Kapoor (14:39):
Yeah, no, but these are, I think, valuable
questions.
The church has always facedpersecution in India.
I'm not sure about the rest ofthe countries nearby.
I hear stories, but I'veexperienced it at hand.
I mean, our services have beenstopped by people walking into
(14:59):
the service, dropped the wholepause to the services, they have
got onto the stages and thrownthe microphones away.
We've faced all thatPersecution.
Right now in India is very, verymuch at peak because the
government is supporting some ofthe groups which I don't want
to mention here.
(15:20):
But, yes, they've been backedup by the government because the
Lord is on the move.
I mean, there are hundreds andthousands of people coming to
Jesus and knowing his savingpower, and so they use lies that
, oh, they give money andconvert people.
They run so many projects byconvincing the people that have
(15:42):
given their hearts to the Lordto bring them back to their
religion.
And there are so manyrestrictions right now for open
air meetings.
You can't preach on the street,you can't do road evangelism.
There's so much restrictionsright now you can't even have
services in most of the rentalproperties.
(16:04):
And, yes, there are manyrequirements and documentation
that they are asking for, whichsometimes are hard to achieve.
So they are putting up rulesand so many states just pass the
rule like a no conversion law,that people cannot be baptized,
they cannot change theirreligion.
(16:26):
So we are a democracy.
Our constitution says thateveryone has the freedom of
speech and even the freedom tochoose their religion.
So it's right there in theconstitution.
But individual states arefighting it and they are winning
the election.
Just two weeks back, one of thestates in India have passed the
(16:49):
law successfully that no onecan convert, no one can change
their religion.
So it's getting hard for thepastors when a group of people
comes into a service to stopthem and if the pastor or the
team calls the police, policewill intentionally delay coming
there.
And if they catch people there,like pastors or leadership, the
(17:15):
court is not even going tolisten to them.
For like three months or sixmonths, like keep delaying their
hearings at the court and thereis no bail.
There is no you you knowfreedom for these pastors like I
know some of them personallywho got in and like no one heard
their plea and they were therefor like months and months and
(17:37):
they've been harassed inside,they've been challenged on their
faith, they are attacked intheir mind so that they they
fall back, or you know, they tryto convince them or wash their
brains to get out of the prisonand deny their faith, but I've
heard not even one story wherethey were successful.
It has only increased the faithof our people, our pastors,
(18:02):
churches have grown.
They have prayed more becausenow, like Peter was in the
prison and church was praying,that's right there in the acts.
That is happening right now inthe east.
Churches are praying more.
So the government, things orthe kings of the world would
think that we can stop this.
But persecution comes with suchan element.
(18:22):
It's such a beautiful packageof power and more faith that
majority of people, they grow inthe lord and the word when
persecution hits them.
It's very handful of peoplethat fall back and then probably
the reason is because they werenot rooted in or they were
(18:44):
never the genuine faith doers.
You know so.
But the church have grown andin in india it's.
It's amazing.
There's another one, one morething happening in india right
now.
Christianity has been a very, avery weak, uh, league of people
for decades.
(19:04):
You know, know, in 80s or 70sor 90s, boys of the house who
could not do anything, they wereasked to serve God.
Oh, you couldn't study well, gobecome a pastor.
Oh, you're not good, you're notsharp enough to have a higher
job or become a doctor orengineer, why don't you try
(19:25):
pastorship?
So that season produced pastorswho were, who couldn't do
anything else, and they neverpromoted people to rise up.
Oh, it's okay to just have twoslices of bread and just be
content.
And they coded the scripturevery wrongly that you can't
(19:47):
serve two masters.
You can't serve money and God.
So these wrong teachings wereimparted in India.
So what happened?
Christians didn't rise up inbusinesses, they didn't study
well, they were content andsatisfied in being the least in
the community and that kind ofmade the Christian community
(20:07):
very weak.
But then came a season where Godbrought the right word, the
right understanding that I canstill become a doctor and still
serve the Lord and we don't haveto bow down to money.
Let money serve us, we'll serveGod through our money as well.
We can have businesses becauseGod has not made us the tail but
(20:31):
the head.
So all this realignmenthappened in India in the last 20
, 25 years and I've seen that Iwas part of both the generations
.
When I got saved it was theprevious one that I was
mentioning to you about, butthen I saw it transferring it.
I saw it changing on the wayand right now we have top-notch
(20:53):
lawyers that are believers.
We have amazing doctors thatare believers.
We have people who ownbusinesses and they are rooted
humble believers, like I haveseen young boys, even in our
ministries.
We have example of people whowere taught wrong and they were
like oh yeah, it's okay tosuffer, it's okay to just have
(21:15):
one slice of bread and becontent.
And they code the scripturethat Solomon wrote in in, I
think, proverbs or Ecclesiastes,where he says you, you know,
two slices of bread is enough,like you know, one roti is
enough, one tortilla is enough,and it's just contentment is
everything.
But therefore, god, the guywho's writing that is a king,
(21:36):
who is the richest.
He's blessed of the Lord, andit just amazes me how some
millenials sit around a roundtable and discuss is God is a
God of abundance or not?
Should we consider blessingsalso part of Christian life or
not?
Ask a guy who's living in ashack with a leaking roof how
(21:58):
much he's praying for his God tobe the God of abundance.
He wants his God.
He wants Jesus to be theprovider and a God who blesses.
So when all these teachings camewhy I'm sharing this?
Because this is connected topersecution of today's time in
India when the Lord startedblessing our community in India,
(22:19):
people started becoming rich,even in materialism, and God
kind of kept telling them thatdon't rejoice in your abundance.
Now I am still your God.
So the church that is rising inIndia is blessed and also
getting a lot of comfort.
(22:39):
They are building big houses,christians are having amazing
cars and no money is coming tothem.
I'm talking to some peoplethere, referring to some people
that God is blessing them in theland of the living.
God is blessing them in India.
Their businesses are doing wellLike.
I know some stories personallywhere young men are running call
(23:03):
centers.
They have 300 people workingfor them.
So these kinds of stories arehappening.
So this how this is connectedto the current state of
persecution in India andprobably the Western part can
learn this, if I have to say ithumbly that now, when they are
blessed, church is becoming morepowerful.
(23:27):
It's not a group of people inIndia.
There are cowards or scared orfull of fear and hiding under a
room or just meeting slowlysinging song, slowly.
They are bold.
They are doing Facebook live.
They are doing YouTube live oftheir services.
Why?
Because they know if a groupcomes into the church.
I've got police.
(23:48):
I've got lawyers in my churchwho are baptized.
I've got doctors.
I've got politicians in mychurch.
Still, god bless the Christiancommunity so much that now we
are we are facing the enemy instrength that become a blessing.
But the good part is millonairescome into the church.
(24:08):
They put their shoes off andthey wipe the floor, they put
the chairs.
They are having tears in theireyes that God, you've blessed me
so much, you bless my family somuch and how can I thank you
back?
So they are not gettingcomfortable in their blessings.
They are not having anindividualistic approach.
They are not emailing theirpastors oh, I don't like this
(24:31):
statement.
Oh, I didn't like your sermon.
They're not offended by thechurch.
They receive hard sermonsjoyfully, because they still
want to grow.
They're not creating any idolbecause, oh, I'm successful, I
know the Bible, I can tell thepastor what's good, what's bad.
They are not making thatmistake.
They come to the church humbly.
They walk into that doorleaving behind their secular
(24:56):
title.
They don't walk into the churchas doctors and engineers or
politicians or police people.
They come as humble children ofGod who wants to receive the
word from the pastor and servechurch and the kingdom the best
way they can, without any ego orpride.
And they are not comfortablebecause now they are blessed.
(25:16):
They are still on fire.
They're blessed.
You know what I mean right nowin India, that people are still
holding on to the humility partof the spirit, the fruit of the
spirit, the kindness, thehumility, the oneness with the
leadership, the submission part.
I see that missing in the West.
(25:39):
Submission is not even talkingabout it.
No one talks about it because,oh, we are scared of making a
pastor star.
We are done with the stardom ofthe pastors.
So enemy have somehow convincedthis community that there is no
value in the vessel that Godanointed.
There is no part of honor thatis still due.
(26:03):
Our teachers are supposed to bedoubly honored.
It's in the New Testament.
So it's always the extremes.
There is no balance.
Either we abuse this culture ofhonor and get into the man
worship or the stardom.
That's bad.
But then we go to the otherextreme of it and we consider
(26:25):
our leadership, our staff,nothing and we feel that we have
our individual, you know,belief or approach towards
kingdom, and that's where thebleeding starts, that's where
idols come up, that's where thiswhole dependency of the Lord is
arrested by the enemy.
So I feel there are so manylayers in the kingdom and
(26:49):
there's so much of repair and somuch of healing that needs to
come.
And it will only come when avoice will start picking it up.
And you know what's gonnahappen if hundred men of God
rises up in in in a part of theworld which is battling the
comfort enemy, they will facepersecution.
(27:12):
And persecution is not only fromthe outside.
I don't know, maybe we can do athird episode on two kinds of
persecution, but I'm not sellingyou on that.
There are two kinds ofpersecution.
One comes from the outside,like india is facing the
persecution from the outside thegovernment, the community, the
(27:34):
people.
But then there's a persecutionfrom the inside, when church
fights the church, when believerfights the believer, when
congregation fights the pastor,when there's so much of internal
persecution, when people don'twant to believe what the Lord
wants to do, and I think that'seven deadlier from the
(27:57):
persecution that comes from theoutside.
Outside persecution is easy tohandle because we can still
stand one, united as a family.
But when the persecution comeswithin the family, you have no
strength.
You lose the battle right there.
You know, we don't even needthe external enemy, we don't
even need the outside enemy tofight us, because we are so much
(28:21):
divided from within.
Satan looks at us and says oh,I don't even have to waste time
on them, they're doing good,they're fighting with each other
.
Christianity is the only armythat buries their soldiers alive
and destroy the prophets andthe voice of God.
(28:43):
In the flow of God.
We are champion in doing that.
So I don't know whichpersecution the West is gonna,
but it's coming.
It's coming.
Nancy Bruscher (28:54):
The Lord will send a healthy persecution, so
that a redemptive I would callit the redemptive persecution, a
persecution that wants toredeem the church and wake the
church up and shake the churchto come out of slumber and sleep
and get active, because hiscoming is at hand yeah, it
(29:18):
doesn't really make sense that apersecution can bring gifts and
flourishing, and in my mindit's like these two can't come
together, but I think that'swhat we see with God, so much is
I'm gonna do things that makeno sense to the world, because
that's just who.
I am and I and I'm going to bethe one who gets glory for that
(29:41):
then, because you can't say,well, it's because of this or
this, it's no, it was just Goddoing that.
I kind of felt like I wanted toshare a few things.
I told you in the last chapterthat I did get to go to India.
Our last chapter yeah, this isa book.
Then I got to go to India andwhen we were there I was in the
(30:06):
Darjeeling area.
Darjeeling is beautiful.
This was a little bit furtheraway and it was a big brothel
area, because I think Nepal wasright there and some other
countries right on that border.
And I actually got to go intothe brothel and I got to sit on
these women's bed and talk tothem and and love them.
(30:28):
And there was, there was suchan evil presence that just I
felt so heavy and and I neverfelt that before and it was, you
know, it was a little scary andI was like, oh my gosh, like
this is really what darknessfeels like and I I never felt
that.
(30:48):
And then a couple things cameto mind.
One was I think I've becomeused to the darkness that I that
I see in the United States,which is scary, that you don't
see it, because I think thatwhen you see it and you feel it,
then you can do something aboutit.
But when you've become used toit then it's just.
(31:10):
It's kind of like that onesaying of like the biggest lie
or the best thing the devil didwas convince the world he didn't
exist, kind of thing.
And then on the other side, afew years ago Chris and I went
to Ball Arena.
It's a big, big place where youcan do basketball and
(31:31):
everything in the Denver area.
And we got invited to go to thiscomedian.
We didn't have any idea but wewere just like, oh, okay, we're
just going.
And the person who came upbefore the main headliner again
her speech I felt such darkness.
She was talking about how manykids she's aborted and how proud
(31:52):
she was and how she has like aplaylist to do it.
When she I mean it was trulyterrible, like the the, the
excitement and the proudness andlike the detail she went into
about about killing babies, andpeople were clapping like oh,
like the darkness I felt and Iwas like, oh my gosh, like to
(32:12):
feel it so heavily in a brotheland then in like a place that
hosts comedians and basketballand hockey and stuff.
I don't know if I can reallyput it into words very well to
make it just a perfect thing,but it has been heavy on my
heart and I don't know reallywhy I'm sharing this.
(32:35):
But yeah, I don't know.
Have you ever felt that waybefore?
As far as like this, this, thishuge presence of, of evil?
Sunny Kapoor (32:45):
yes, and like you mentioned, um, you know you felt
it on you.
I mean, um, some evil presencehave an impact on our physical
body.
Like you feel stress in yourhead.
I mean, a couple of times I'vefelt pain in my body like
unusual pain, just entering ahouse which is demon possessed.
(33:10):
Like you feel choked, andoked,and you know so.
It's definitely real and thatkind of as a pastor produces a
lot of mercy and grace as wellin my heart, because I know the
people that we are talking about.
What they are doing is is nottheir choice.
They are, they are just ruledby these demons and you know
(33:34):
this whole spiritual capturingthat happens on their heart and
their senses die, they becomeblind, and that's where the
light of Christ exposes, youknow the lies of the enemy and
then they receive the freedom.
I'm assuming the second storythat you shared is from the
(33:56):
united states yeah, yeah denver.
Now, think about it.
I mean we talk about countrieslike india and nepal having so
many idols and you know, allthese places are demon possessed
and that's why in america, inour church services we don't see
demon many manifesting inpeople.
(34:17):
It's is that part of the world,but no, I mean this happening
right here in this beautifulnation.
I mean, I don't know how muchthis is true, but I've been told
there are states in thiscountry that are too active in
child sacrifice and especiallyduring the times of Halloween
(34:38):
and all that kind of seasons.
I mean, think about it.
You know we hear so many otherstuff.
So what convinces me that devilis real and darkness is real?
Because because the word saysis the bible says it that he's
the prince of the world rightnow.
And so how much the churchneeds to be active, not just in
(35:00):
hot dog sales or piñata projectsor just taking the kids for
camps.
All that is good, but all ofthat stuff should come with one
important message that we arespirit people.
(35:20):
We've got to open our eyes,we've got to walk closely with
the Lord, we've got to delightin the word of Jesus and we've
got to base our lives on theword and live in spirit.
Don't just attend church.
Devil has no problem withpeople attending churches.
Devil has no issue with peoplejust ticking their boxes and
(35:45):
saying we are the goodChristians in the community
because we don't kill an ant orwe don't think bad about our
neighbors.
It's beyond community.
We are dealing with realms ofthe spirit.
We are dealing with what theenemy is doing in this hour.
This is a crucial hour.
(36:06):
2025 is not like 1905 or 400 or1810.
This is a very different season.
The church is in right now.
We can't afford to have a dayoff as being a Christian, we
(36:26):
can't be a part-time Christianbecause devil is a full-time
enemy, you know.
So, yeah, these things are real.
I encounter it probably everyweek when I meet people.
Every person carries aninfluence.
Some people have a sweet spirit.
Some people have the, thefragrance of the holy spirit in
(36:47):
their lives.
You'll feel so blessed justspending time with them, but
some people will will arecarrying so many baggages, scars
, wounds, hurt, and they don'twant to let go of it.
That's why some people therethey've taken two decades to get
healed where the lord can showup if, if you carefully.
Um, like I said it in in thefirst part as well that the lord
(37:10):
showed up and in one encounterI was healed.
He can do it.
The problem is enemy doesn'twant people to believe that.
He wants them to believe that,oh, it takes time.
Oh, it's no.
Jesus can do everything in allthings at any time.
All things are possible.
It depends on our faith andthat's also one of the
(37:31):
statements that enemy has playedwithin the community where we
live right now.
Oh, I don't like the sermonswhere the pastor says only if
you had a little bit more faith.
And it hurts people.
It is hurting people that oh,you're telling me I don't have
faith and our enemy is usingthat in their hearts to run away
(37:51):
from the church and they'relike it's not just about my
faith, things take time.
Yes, it's not just about myfaith.
Things take time.
Yes, it's a correct statement.
Things sometimes takes time.
God has his own way of doing it, but don't say that it can't be
done right now.
Say both the statements.
It can be done right now and itcan take time.
It depends on the Lord.
(38:11):
I'll rejoice in whatever hechooses for my life and, to be
very honest, when people,enemies using it in people's
heart.
Oh, I wish I had a little bitof more faith.
Or I'm tired of those churchesthat keeps telling me oh, if you
had a little bit of more faith,it could be true.
Maybe you needed some extrafaith.
An enemy is fooling around withyou by saying you don't need an
(38:34):
extra faith, because faith canmove mountains, faith can.
It is impossible to please godwithout faith.
Sunny should kept saying lord,I have faith that you can heal
me, and heal me right now.
You can deliver me from thisfiery furnace, you can deliver
me from the lion's den.
But even if you don't do it,I'll still praise you.
(38:54):
I shouldn't just say, oh, godwill take his own time to
deliver me.
No, he has delivered me 2 000years ago on the cross and it is
finished, it is done.
I must believe that and live inhealing.
American church is living inhurt and wound.
(39:15):
Why?
Because we feel comfort inpeople pacifying us.
Somehow we like it, we like toshare it.
So there are so many realms.
I'm telling you.
My 18 months of journey herehas opened my eyes to see so
many things that needs to bedealt with in this community,
because there came a time webecame comfortable, because we
(39:38):
were sending out missionaries.
We have all the money and theresources that we can offer to
the nations and that kind ofbecame our pride oh, we are the
doers.
But then we forgot that we aredecaying from the inside.
But then we forgot that we aredecaying from the inside.
We are getting divided from theinside because we are now
depending on what we are doingfor the Lord rather than what we
(40:01):
were becoming for the Lord andwe stopped transforming, we
stopped changing, we stoppedaccepting the move of God.
And it's never black to white.
It's always black to gray andthen to white.
It's always a slow fade.
It's always done by the enemywhere no one notices that.
(40:24):
It goes unnoticed.
And then we are asking why weare in trouble.
What happened?
What's happening in our nation?
Right, you know.
So the Lord is there to help usand open our eyes If we
surrender and stop being fearfulof a change.
Change is hard.
We don't want that change as achurch, because that's
(40:47):
uncomfortable.
We like it like this.
That's where the Lord is like.
On that day when enemy appears,you'll fall apart.
You'll be like oh, what justhappened?
Everything was going so well,what happened?
But when God tells us what,what happened?
We don't know, we don't want toembrace it, don't like it.
(41:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Nancy Bruscher (41:11):
Well, sonny, I'm just loving our conversations
and I'm so excited I think weare gonna have to just wrap it
up.
I'm like, okay, we could gohere, we could go here, we could
go here.
I am going to link your social,your website.
I think you have a podcast, yes, or her?
Sunny Kapoor (41:32):
people mentioned it because I was like no, this
is your podcast what is yourpodcast called?
I can't remember, but I know youit's called store with jesus
and there are around 40 50podcast there and it's not
detailed conversations like this.
But this is so amazing.
(41:53):
You know what you, what you'redoing and I want to really
acknowledge what you're doingand appreciate because you are
picking up so many real lifestories.
And so the initial, the visionthat the Lord gave me was not to
have detailed conversationslike this, but it was just a
short motivational words orwords of encouragement or few
(42:15):
words that can help people intheir daily walk with life.
Nancy Bruscher (42:19):
But in this season, uh, we're also going to
introduce some detailedconversations and probably have
you as a guest and I might askyou questions you're gonna put
me on the spot, I'm gonna putthose in the show notes, because
I think there's going to be alot of people that are saying
well, nancy, I want more, I wantmore.
(42:39):
I really love what he's saying,I love how he's sharing this
and so.
Sunny Kapoor (42:44):
I want to.
I want people to be able to getin touch with you and continue
following you and get get thesenuggets from you.
Nancy Bruscher (42:50):
Thank you.
Sunny Kapoor (42:51):
Thank you, appreciate that Well.
As we wrap up, what are yougrateful for?
Well, I turned 42 yesterday wasmy birthday.
So I'm grateful for life forthis grace of serving him and,
yeah, just excited for the nextseason that has come our way and
I'm excited to see how the lordwill use me, even in this part
(43:12):
of the world.
And I'm grateful for life forcalling over my life, my family.
Yeah, I'm just grateful.
Nancy Bruscher (43:22):
That's awesome.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, thank you again for yourtime.
I know that you're busy.
I do appreciate it.
I've loved chatting with youand I can't wait to see what
God's going to do.
Sunny Kapoor (43:34):
Amen.
Thank you so much for having me.
It was my joy, honor andabsolute blessing to be on this
podcast.
Nancy Bruscher (43:43):
Thank you.
Sunny Kapoor (43:44):
Yeah.
Nancy Bruscher (43:45):
On Ordinary People, extraordinary Things.
Your story is his glory.
I'm praying that this episodehas not only inspired you, but
it will empower you to act inwhatever way that God is calling
you.
For episode 102, we'll haveJamie, who will share her
amazing story about findingJesus in jail.
(44:05):
We'll see you soon.
You've found ordinary people, extraordinary
things, and I'm your host, nancyBrucher.
This is episode 101, and if youhave not heard Sunny's part one
, that's number 99, and I highlyencourage you to listen to that
before you start this one.
Besides doing back-to-backepisodes right now, as we're
(00:21):
celebrating over 100 episodes, Ihave been busy transferring
slides.
Those are those old photos thatyou might have in your basement
, maybe your grandparents'basement, maybe in a closet.
Reach out to me atgenerations2generationscom if I
can help your family to transferthose slides and save those
(00:42):
memories.
Everything we do here is aboutstories, memories and hope and,
without further ado, let's startpart two with Sunny.
Well, welcome to OrdinaryPeople, extraordinary Things.
I'm so blessed to have Sunnyback on.
Thanks for doing another parttwo with us.
Sunny Kapoor (00:58):
My pleasure.
I'm so excited to be here again.
Nancy Bruscher (01:01):
So if you haven't listened to the first
one, you'll need to do that inorder to maybe kind of get
caught up to where we are,because we're just going to dive
in.
But I want to ask you onequestion.
This is kind of a questionpeople say when you think of
Jesus, if you want to end itwith one word, Jesus is how
would you end the sentence?
Sunny Kapoor (01:19):
Jesus is everything, the beginning and
the end, the Alpha and the Omega, the author and the finisher of
our faith.
So everything is in him, forhim, by him, so he's everything.
Nancy Bruscher (01:34):
That's good, that's good.
So we briefly kind of liketouched on and kind of gave a
snippet last time.
There's such a differencebetween the persecuted church,
which was what we might kind ofsee in India, and then the
comfortable church which I wouldsay is for sure the United
States.
Sunny Kapoor (01:53):
There's always been seasons and times when
churches have developed adifferent kind of DNA or vibe
all over the world, and locationdoesn't matter so definitely.
You know, even in the Bible andJesus was writing letters to
different churches you couldeasily see that every church had
(02:16):
a different struggle orlimitation that he pointed out.
So if I have to compareparticularly two nations, that
is, india and the US, I wouldsay, or the Eastern part or the
Western part of the world Iwould say Christianity is easy
on this side and there's a lotof persecution on that side, and
(02:41):
it does create a hugedifference in the outcome.
Yeah, I think if you look atthe persecuted church, even in
the Bible or right now, in 2025,all over the world, those
churches, somehow you'll findthat they are on fire.
(03:01):
They are on fire Becausesomewhere I feel and it's kind
of my experience, walking inthree different continents and
serving in three differentcontinents that comfort can be a
blessing, because Jesus wantsto give us rest and he wants to
give us seasons of rewards.
But then, if it crosses theline, or how do I explain it?
(03:26):
Com comfort also comes with alot of risk.
Am I saying that comfort is bad?
No, comfort is a blessing.
Having no enemy is a blessing.
I mean, king David waspersecuted all his life, and so
much so that by the end of hislife it was like, oh, thank God,
(03:46):
now I don't have enemies.
By the end of it and Solomonliterally said this that my
father had a lot of enemies butI don't have one.
So what I'll do?
I'll invest my time in buildingthe temple for the Lord.
So definitely, having nopersecution is a blessing.
(04:08):
And I'm not also saying that tobe on fire for God you have to
be persecuted.
You can be on fire even in thecomfort.
But what happens is persecutiondoes not give you a choice.
You have to fight, you have tobe on fire.
There's no plan B.
(04:30):
But in comfort you have to makea choice.
You can choose God or you.
You can not choose, not choosehim.
You know so it up and in humantendency is like we choose the
easier part.
So definitely, comfort becomesdeadly because there is no
dependency, you're not leaningon the Lord, you don't need him.
(04:55):
In comfort, you feel your lifeis complete, things are good,
things are smooth, and thensomehow the smoothness of life
becomes the goal or the idol.
You know so we worship our, youknow, the comfort or the
blessing, and it the growth orthe fruit of life which is so
(05:17):
easy to accomplish in some partsof the world.
It's if there's a thin linebetween being on fire in comfort
, or just slipping away, youknow, and just getting cold as a
church or as a body of Christ.
Nancy Bruscher (05:33):
Yeah, I like how you said the word idol, because
I think that if we're lookingat idols in the Old Testament,
we can say, well, I don't have agolden calf, or I didn't raise
this big statue to another God,or I didn't sacrifice my
children to this God, orsomething like that.
But in a way, I feel like theidols that we're facing are a
(05:57):
little bit harder to recognize,which actually, I believe might
make them harder to get out.
Sunny Kapoor (06:05):
Yeah, yeah, so true.
I mean, you know, when we weregrowing up in India, I used to
hear this statement a lot thebig American dream.
I was like what's that?
We don't even know what thisstatement means, but then that
could be one of the idols.
(06:25):
And what happens in a culturewhere it's easy to grow, there's
less persecution, there'sfreedom of thought, speech,
actions.
We can choose to be our God, wecan choose to be the way we
want to be.
I mean, that becomes a veryhard ground for the Lord to rule
(06:49):
the hearts of people.
And you said it very rightly theidol thing is something that
occurs in comfort.
The structure of human beingsare made in a way that we want a
savior.
We need a savior.
We are not just fully completein ourselves.
(07:09):
So anytime we don't need Jesus,we will make some idol.
Because we are made like that,we need it.
We somehow will produce our ownstuff.
And I think when comfort couldbe one of those idols that have
creeped into the churches andlife is pretty easy.
So yeah, it makes sense to me.
Nancy Bruscher (07:32):
The word that came to mind when I was hearing
you was more of a lukewarmChristianity, and I think we
hear that in Revelation ofyou're not hot, you're not cold,
and I wonder if that might bean issue in the United States or
Western, and are you allowed tobe like a really lukewarm
Christian in India, or is it?
I'm?
(07:52):
Either not or I am because ofthe persecution.
You have to truly make adecision.
Sunny Kapoor (08:01):
Yeah, that's a good question and you know, I
just want to make this clear toall our listeners that I mean
we're not.
this conversation is not likewe're judging the community or
this part of like just trying tofigure out what's happening,
because in my first podcast withyou we did talk about the
(08:29):
bleeding that the Lord showed mein the nation and what's
bleeding?
What happens when a person isin less need of God or a savior?
There is this individualisticapproach that arises, that is
birthed inside of us and it'sabout me, my rights, my freedom,
and somehow our hearts focus somuch on me, the me part of life
(08:55):
, and you know, that becomes thebreeding ground of pursuing my
comfort and how I feel and how Ican create my own world where
everything is just perfect.
I'm the God of my world andnothing should, you know, go
(09:19):
against my desires or the way Iwant to plan my life and all
these things.
They create this sense of wemaking our life all about us,
and then selfish motives arise.
Then there is this approach of,you know, just me wanting to
(09:40):
satisfy myself.
You know there's so many realmsattached to why a nation or a
community starts bleedingbecause there is no persecution,
because if there's persecutionyou'll depend on God more and
the Bible says that your faithwill be tested.
(10:01):
I mean, if you allow me to readone scripture, paul made such a
fantastic and a bold statementin one of his letters to his
spiritual son, timothy, and in 2Timothy 3, verse number 12, he
said yes, and all who desire tolive godly in Christ Jesus will
suffer persecution Like.
(10:23):
According to him, persecutionis a good thing and it's a sign
that you are going against whatyou want to do in life.
Or you are putting yourselfdown, or you are putting your
crowns at the feet of Jesus andyou're telling him the Lord,
it's not me who's the boss of mylife or the God of my life, but
(10:46):
you are the Lord and the wordthat the Holy Spirit is putting
in my heart in perspective ofyou know your question.
The word is surrender.
Surrender is the key to stillbe on fire and still not make a
mistake as a church, even ifthere is no persecution.
(11:09):
Persecution is allowed by theLord.
But that's not his actual plan.
His actual plan is that hisbride will fall in love with him
.
Even if everything is good,even if you are blessed, even if
you are rewarded, even if youhave no enemy in your life, he
still wants you to be on firefor him.
But the problem is we don'tneed God when everything is good
(11:35):
, so he kind of sometimes allowsthe persecution to come in
because he wants his bride backinto his arms.
Because he wants his bride backinto his arms, so trials and
tribulation and all thechallenges would fall so that we
can pursue him more.
But that's not his initial plan.
That being said, when I readthe Bible and when I look at the
(11:58):
history and even the presenttimes, I feel churches have
grown.
The kingdom has grown in thetimes of persecution.
So persecution is always ablessing.
If you don't allow the spirit offear to operate in us, if you
allow the spirit of fear to fallon you, you won't grow.
(12:20):
You will, in fact quit.
And that's what the word says,that one of the signs of the end
days is that the love of manypeople will get cold and a lot
of people will deny their faith.
Why?
Because persecution willincrease in the end times and
those who will allow the spiritof fear to grip their hearts
(12:41):
will deny fighting for theirfaith, they will fall into the
trap of persecution and they'lldeny Jesus, and that their love
for the Lord will get cold.
So I would say surrender is thekey.
We don't, we don't have to askGod to send persecution to the
(13:02):
United States.
We don't have to say, lord, dosomething here as well that you
did there to bring your churchup.
But the message, the correctmessage, should be even if there
is no persecution, we can justwillfully lay all our crowns at
the feet of Jesus and tellourselves we are a nation under
(13:24):
God.
I'm not self-made.
There is no individualisticapproach that I live in.
It's not about me or or what Ifeel, or what I sense is right.
It's about what the Word of Godsays, and we need to surrender
to everything that the Word ofGod says.
Then, automatically, thiscomfort will not be our enemy,
(13:48):
but it will become our blessing,a season of reward in which we
can still build the house of theLord.
We can still do what the Lordwants us to do.
So surrender, I would say, isthe real key in this matter, in
this part of the world.
Nancy Bruscher (14:05):
I really liked how you've talked about this and
not putting down people orraising people up, but just
saying like this is where we are, this is where this part of the
world is, this is where this is, and I have really appreciated
that.
Thank you for saying that.
Could you share?
What is it like to be aChristian in India?
(14:27):
What is it like to try to putup churches?
What is the persecution there?
What does the government allow,not allow?
There's a lot of questionsright there.
Sunny Kapoor (14:39):
Yeah, no, but these are, I think, valuable
questions.
The church has always facedpersecution in India.
I'm not sure about the rest ofthe countries nearby.
I hear stories, but I'veexperienced it at hand.
I mean, our services have beenstopped by people walking into
(14:59):
the service, dropped the wholepause to the services, they have
got onto the stages and thrownthe microphones away.
We've faced all thatPersecution.
Right now in India is very, verymuch at peak because the
government is supporting some ofthe groups which I don't want
to mention here.
(15:20):
But, yes, they've been backedup by the government because the
Lord is on the move.
I mean, there are hundreds andthousands of people coming to
Jesus and knowing his savingpower, and so they use lies that
, oh, they give money andconvert people.
They run so many projects byconvincing the people that have
(15:42):
given their hearts to the Lordto bring them back to their
religion.
And there are so manyrestrictions right now for open
air meetings.
You can't preach on the street,you can't do road evangelism.
There's so much restrictionsright now you can't even have
services in most of the rentalproperties.
(16:04):
And, yes, there are manyrequirements and documentation
that they are asking for, whichsometimes are hard to achieve.
So they are putting up rulesand so many states just pass the
rule like a no conversion law,that people cannot be baptized,
they cannot change theirreligion.
(16:26):
So we are a democracy.
Our constitution says thateveryone has the freedom of
speech and even the freedom tochoose their religion.
So it's right there in theconstitution.
But individual states arefighting it and they are winning
the election.
Just two weeks back, one of thestates in India have passed the
(16:49):
law successfully that no onecan convert, no one can change
their religion.
So it's getting hard for thepastors when a group of people
comes into a service to stopthem and if the pastor or the
team calls the police, policewill intentionally delay coming
there.
And if they catch people there,like pastors or leadership, the
(17:15):
court is not even going tolisten to them.
For like three months or sixmonths, like keep delaying their
hearings at the court and thereis no bail.
There is no you you knowfreedom for these pastors like I
know some of them personallywho got in and like no one heard
their plea and they were therefor like months and months and
(17:37):
they've been harassed inside,they've been challenged on their
faith, they are attacked intheir mind so that they they
fall back, or you know, they tryto convince them or wash their
brains to get out of the prisonand deny their faith, but I've
heard not even one story wherethey were successful.
It has only increased the faithof our people, our pastors,
(18:02):
churches have grown.
They have prayed more becausenow, like Peter was in the
prison and church was praying,that's right there in the acts.
That is happening right now inthe east.
Churches are praying more.
So the government, things orthe kings of the world would
think that we can stop this.
But persecution comes with suchan element.
(18:22):
It's such a beautiful packageof power and more faith that
majority of people, they grow inthe lord and the word when
persecution hits them.
It's very handful of peoplethat fall back and then probably
the reason is because they werenot rooted in or they were
(18:44):
never the genuine faith doers.
You know so.
But the church have grown andin in india it's.
It's amazing.
There's another one, one morething happening in india right
now.
Christianity has been a very, avery weak, uh, league of people
for decades.
(19:04):
You know, know, in 80s or 70sor 90s, boys of the house who
could not do anything, they wereasked to serve God.
Oh, you couldn't study well, gobecome a pastor.
Oh, you're not good, you're notsharp enough to have a higher
job or become a doctor orengineer, why don't you try
(19:25):
pastorship?
So that season produced pastorswho were, who couldn't do
anything else, and they neverpromoted people to rise up.
Oh, it's okay to just have twoslices of bread and just be
content.
And they coded the scripturevery wrongly that you can't
(19:47):
serve two masters.
You can't serve money and God.
So these wrong teachings wereimparted in India.
So what happened?
Christians didn't rise up inbusinesses, they didn't study
well, they were content andsatisfied in being the least in
the community and that kind ofmade the Christian community
(20:07):
very weak.
But then came a season where Godbrought the right word, the
right understanding that I canstill become a doctor and still
serve the Lord and we don't haveto bow down to money.
Let money serve us, we'll serveGod through our money as well.
We can have businesses becauseGod has not made us the tail but
(20:31):
the head.
So all this realignmenthappened in India in the last 20
, 25 years and I've seen that Iwas part of both the generations
.
When I got saved it was theprevious one that I was
mentioning to you about, butthen I saw it transferring it.
I saw it changing on the wayand right now we have top-notch
(20:53):
lawyers that are believers.
We have amazing doctors thatare believers.
We have people who ownbusinesses and they are rooted
humble believers, like I haveseen young boys, even in our
ministries.
We have example of people whowere taught wrong and they were
like oh yeah, it's okay tosuffer, it's okay to just have
(21:15):
one slice of bread and becontent.
And they code the scripturethat Solomon wrote in in, I
think, proverbs or Ecclesiastes,where he says you, you know,
two slices of bread is enough,like you know, one roti is
enough, one tortilla is enough,and it's just contentment is
everything.
But therefore, god, the guywho's writing that is a king,
(21:36):
who is the richest.
He's blessed of the Lord, andit just amazes me how some
millenials sit around a roundtable and discuss is God is a
God of abundance or not?
Should we consider blessingsalso part of Christian life or
not?
Ask a guy who's living in ashack with a leaking roof how
(21:58):
much he's praying for his God tobe the God of abundance.
He wants his God.
He wants Jesus to be theprovider and a God who blesses.
So when all these teachings camewhy I'm sharing this?
Because this is connected topersecution of today's time in
India when the Lord startedblessing our community in India,
(22:19):
people started becoming rich,even in materialism, and God
kind of kept telling them thatdon't rejoice in your abundance.
Now I am still your God.
So the church that is rising inIndia is blessed and also
getting a lot of comfort.
(22:39):
They are building big houses,christians are having amazing
cars and no money is coming tothem.
I'm talking to some peoplethere, referring to some people
that God is blessing them in theland of the living.
God is blessing them in India.
Their businesses are doing wellLike.
I know some stories personallywhere young men are running call
(23:03):
centers.
They have 300 people workingfor them.
So these kinds of stories arehappening.
So this how this is connectedto the current state of
persecution in India andprobably the Western part can
learn this, if I have to say ithumbly that now, when they are
blessed, church is becoming morepowerful.
(23:27):
It's not a group of people inIndia.
There are cowards or scared orfull of fear and hiding under a
room or just meeting slowlysinging song, slowly.
They are bold.
They are doing Facebook live.
They are doing YouTube live oftheir services.
Why?
Because they know if a groupcomes into the church.
I've got police.
(23:48):
I've got lawyers in my churchwho are baptized.
I've got doctors.
I've got politicians in mychurch.
Still, god bless the Christiancommunity so much that now we
are we are facing the enemy instrength that become a blessing.
But the good part is millonairescome into the church.
(24:08):
They put their shoes off andthey wipe the floor, they put
the chairs.
They are having tears in theireyes that God, you've blessed me
so much, you bless my family somuch and how can I thank you
back?
So they are not gettingcomfortable in their blessings.
They are not having anindividualistic approach.
They are not emailing theirpastors oh, I don't like this
(24:31):
statement.
Oh, I didn't like your sermon.
They're not offended by thechurch.
They receive hard sermonsjoyfully, because they still
want to grow.
They're not creating any idolbecause, oh, I'm successful, I
know the Bible, I can tell thepastor what's good, what's bad.
They are not making thatmistake.
They come to the church humbly.
They walk into that doorleaving behind their secular
(24:56):
title.
They don't walk into the churchas doctors and engineers or
politicians or police people.
They come as humble children ofGod who wants to receive the
word from the pastor and servechurch and the kingdom the best
way they can, without any ego orpride.
And they are not comfortablebecause now they are blessed.
(25:16):
They are still on fire.
They're blessed.
You know what I mean right nowin India, that people are still
holding on to the humility partof the spirit, the fruit of the
spirit, the kindness, thehumility, the oneness with the
leadership, the submission part.
I see that missing in the West.
(25:39):
Submission is not even talkingabout it.
No one talks about it because,oh, we are scared of making a
pastor star.
We are done with the stardom ofthe pastors.
So enemy have somehow convincedthis community that there is no
value in the vessel that Godanointed.
There is no part of honor thatis still due.
(26:03):
Our teachers are supposed to bedoubly honored.
It's in the New Testament.
So it's always the extremes.
There is no balance.
Either we abuse this culture ofhonor and get into the man
worship or the stardom.
That's bad.
But then we go to the otherextreme of it and we consider
(26:25):
our leadership, our staff,nothing and we feel that we have
our individual, you know,belief or approach towards
kingdom, and that's where thebleeding starts, that's where
idols come up, that's where thiswhole dependency of the Lord is
arrested by the enemy.
So I feel there are so manylayers in the kingdom and
(26:49):
there's so much of repair and somuch of healing that needs to
come.
And it will only come when avoice will start picking it up.
And you know what's gonnahappen if hundred men of God
rises up in in in a part of theworld which is battling the
comfort enemy, they will facepersecution.
(27:12):
And persecution is not only fromthe outside.
I don't know, maybe we can do athird episode on two kinds of
persecution, but I'm not sellingyou on that.
There are two kinds ofpersecution.
One comes from the outside,like india is facing the
persecution from the outside thegovernment, the community, the
(27:34):
people.
But then there's a persecutionfrom the inside, when church
fights the church, when believerfights the believer, when
congregation fights the pastor,when there's so much of internal
persecution, when people don'twant to believe what the Lord
wants to do, and I think that'seven deadlier from the
(27:57):
persecution that comes from theoutside.
Outside persecution is easy tohandle because we can still
stand one, united as a family.
But when the persecution comeswithin the family, you have no
strength.
You lose the battle right there.
You know, we don't even needthe external enemy, we don't
even need the outside enemy tofight us, because we are so much
(28:21):
divided from within.
Satan looks at us and says oh,I don't even have to waste time
on them, they're doing good,they're fighting with each other
.
Christianity is the only armythat buries their soldiers alive
and destroy the prophets andthe voice of God.
(28:43):
In the flow of God.
We are champion in doing that.
So I don't know whichpersecution the West is gonna,
but it's coming.
It's coming.
Nancy Bruscher (28:54):
The Lord will send a healthy persecution, so
that a redemptive I would callit the redemptive persecution, a
persecution that wants toredeem the church and wake the
church up and shake the churchto come out of slumber and sleep
and get active, because hiscoming is at hand yeah, it
(29:18):
doesn't really make sense that apersecution can bring gifts and
flourishing, and in my mindit's like these two can't come
together, but I think that'swhat we see with God, so much is
I'm gonna do things that makeno sense to the world, because
that's just who.
I am and I and I'm going to bethe one who gets glory for that
(29:41):
then, because you can't say,well, it's because of this or
this, it's no, it was just Goddoing that.
I kind of felt like I wanted toshare a few things.
I told you in the last chapterthat I did get to go to India.
Our last chapter yeah, this isa book.
Then I got to go to India andwhen we were there I was in the
(30:06):
Darjeeling area.
Darjeeling is beautiful.
This was a little bit furtheraway and it was a big brothel
area, because I think Nepal wasright there and some other
countries right on that border.
And I actually got to go intothe brothel and I got to sit on
these women's bed and talk tothem and and love them.
(30:28):
And there was, there was suchan evil presence that just I
felt so heavy and and I neverfelt that before and it was, you
know, it was a little scary andI was like, oh my gosh, like
this is really what darknessfeels like and I I never felt
that.
(30:48):
And then a couple things cameto mind.
One was I think I've becomeused to the darkness that I that
I see in the United States,which is scary, that you don't
see it, because I think thatwhen you see it and you feel it,
then you can do something aboutit.
But when you've become used toit then it's just.
(31:10):
It's kind of like that onesaying of like the biggest lie
or the best thing the devil didwas convince the world he didn't
exist, kind of thing.
And then on the other side, afew years ago Chris and I went
to Ball Arena.
It's a big, big place where youcan do basketball and
(31:31):
everything in the Denver area.
And we got invited to go to thiscomedian.
We didn't have any idea but wewere just like, oh, okay, we're
just going.
And the person who came upbefore the main headliner again
her speech I felt such darkness.
She was talking about how manykids she's aborted and how proud
(31:52):
she was and how she has like aplaylist to do it.
When she I mean it was trulyterrible, like the the, the
excitement and the proudness andlike the detail she went into
about about killing babies, andpeople were clapping like oh,
like the darkness I felt and Iwas like, oh my gosh, like to
(32:12):
feel it so heavily in a brotheland then in like a place that
hosts comedians and basketballand hockey and stuff.
I don't know if I can reallyput it into words very well to
make it just a perfect thing,but it has been heavy on my
heart and I don't know reallywhy I'm sharing this.
(32:35):
But yeah, I don't know.
Have you ever felt that waybefore?
As far as like this, this, thishuge presence of, of evil?
Sunny Kapoor (32:45):
yes, and like you mentioned, um, you know you felt
it on you.
I mean, um, some evil presencehave an impact on our physical
body.
Like you feel stress in yourhead.
I mean, a couple of times I'vefelt pain in my body like
unusual pain, just entering ahouse which is demon possessed.
(33:10):
Like you feel choked, andoked,and you know so.
It's definitely real and thatkind of as a pastor produces a
lot of mercy and grace as wellin my heart, because I know the
people that we are talking about.
What they are doing is is nottheir choice.
They are, they are just ruledby these demons and you know
(33:34):
this whole spiritual capturingthat happens on their heart and
their senses die, they becomeblind, and that's where the
light of Christ exposes, youknow the lies of the enemy and
then they receive the freedom.
I'm assuming the second storythat you shared is from the
(33:56):
united states yeah, yeah denver.
Now, think about it.
I mean we talk about countrieslike india and nepal having so
many idols and you know, allthese places are demon possessed
and that's why in america, inour church services we don't see
demon many manifesting inpeople.
(34:17):
It's is that part of the world,but no, I mean this happening
right here in this beautifulnation.
I mean, I don't know how muchthis is true, but I've been told
there are states in thiscountry that are too active in
child sacrifice and especiallyduring the times of Halloween
(34:38):
and all that kind of seasons.
I mean, think about it.
You know we hear so many otherstuff.
So what convinces me that devilis real and darkness is real?
Because because the word saysis the bible says it that he's
the prince of the world rightnow.
And so how much the churchneeds to be active, not just in
(35:00):
hot dog sales or piñata projectsor just taking the kids for
camps.
All that is good, but all ofthat stuff should come with one
important message that we arespirit people.
(35:20):
We've got to open our eyes,we've got to walk closely with
the Lord, we've got to delightin the word of Jesus and we've
got to base our lives on theword and live in spirit.
Don't just attend church.
Devil has no problem withpeople attending churches.
Devil has no issue with peoplejust ticking their boxes and
(35:45):
saying we are the goodChristians in the community
because we don't kill an ant orwe don't think bad about our
neighbors.
It's beyond community.
We are dealing with realms ofthe spirit.
We are dealing with what theenemy is doing in this hour.
This is a crucial hour.
(36:06):
2025 is not like 1905 or 400 or1810.
This is a very different season.
The church is in right now.
We can't afford to have a dayoff as being a Christian, we
(36:26):
can't be a part-time Christianbecause devil is a full-time
enemy, you know.
So, yeah, these things are real.
I encounter it probably everyweek when I meet people.
Every person carries aninfluence.
Some people have a sweet spirit.
Some people have the, thefragrance of the holy spirit in
(36:47):
their lives.
You'll feel so blessed justspending time with them, but
some people will will arecarrying so many baggages, scars
, wounds, hurt, and they don'twant to let go of it.
That's why some people therethey've taken two decades to get
healed where the lord can showup if, if you carefully.
Um, like I said it in in thefirst part as well that the lord
(37:10):
showed up and in one encounterI was healed.
He can do it.
The problem is enemy doesn'twant people to believe that.
He wants them to believe that,oh, it takes time.
Oh, it's no.
Jesus can do everything in allthings at any time.
All things are possible.
It depends on our faith andthat's also one of the
(37:31):
statements that enemy has playedwithin the community where we
live right now.
Oh, I don't like the sermonswhere the pastor says only if
you had a little bit more faith.
And it hurts people.
It is hurting people that oh,you're telling me I don't have
faith and our enemy is usingthat in their hearts to run away
(37:51):
from the church and they'relike it's not just about my
faith, things take time.
Yes, it's not just about myfaith.
Things take time.
Yes, it's a correct statement.
Things sometimes takes time.
God has his own way of doing it, but don't say that it can't be
done right now.
Say both the statements.
It can be done right now and itcan take time.
It depends on the Lord.
(38:11):
I'll rejoice in whatever hechooses for my life and, to be
very honest, when people,enemies using it in people's
heart.
Oh, I wish I had a little bitof more faith.
Or I'm tired of those churchesthat keeps telling me oh, if you
had a little bit of more faith,it could be true.
Maybe you needed some extrafaith.
An enemy is fooling around withyou by saying you don't need an
(38:34):
extra faith, because faith canmove mountains, faith can.
It is impossible to please godwithout faith.
Sunny should kept saying lord,I have faith that you can heal
me, and heal me right now.
You can deliver me from thisfiery furnace, you can deliver
me from the lion's den.
But even if you don't do it,I'll still praise you.
(38:54):
I shouldn't just say, oh, godwill take his own time to
deliver me.
No, he has delivered me 2 000years ago on the cross and it is
finished, it is done.
I must believe that and live inhealing.
American church is living inhurt and wound.
(39:15):
Why?
Because we feel comfort inpeople pacifying us.
Somehow we like it, we like toshare it.
So there are so many realms.
I'm telling you.
My 18 months of journey herehas opened my eyes to see so
many things that needs to bedealt with in this community,
because there came a time webecame comfortable, because we
(39:38):
were sending out missionaries.
We have all the money and theresources that we can offer to
the nations and that kind ofbecame our pride oh, we are the
doers.
But then we forgot that we aredecaying from the inside.
But then we forgot that we aredecaying from the inside.
We are getting divided from theinside because we are now
depending on what we are doingfor the Lord rather than what we
(40:01):
were becoming for the Lord andwe stopped transforming, we
stopped changing, we stoppedaccepting the move of God.
And it's never black to white.
It's always black to gray andthen to white.
It's always a slow fade.
It's always done by the enemywhere no one notices that.
(40:24):
It goes unnoticed.
And then we are asking why weare in trouble.
What happened?
What's happening in our nation?
Right, you know.
So the Lord is there to help usand open our eyes If we
surrender and stop being fearfulof a change.
Change is hard.
We don't want that change as achurch, because that's
(40:47):
uncomfortable.
We like it like this.
That's where the Lord is like.
On that day when enemy appears,you'll fall apart.
You'll be like oh, what justhappened?
Everything was going so well,what happened?
But when God tells us what,what happened?
We don't know, we don't want toembrace it, don't like it.
(41:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Nancy Bruscher (41:11):
Well, sonny, I'm just loving our conversations
and I'm so excited I think weare gonna have to just wrap it
up.
I'm like, okay, we could gohere, we could go here, we could
go here.
I am going to link your social,your website.
I think you have a podcast, yes, or her?
Sunny Kapoor (41:32):
people mentioned it because I was like no, this
is your podcast what is yourpodcast called?
I can't remember, but I know youit's called store with jesus
and there are around 40 50podcast there and it's not
detailed conversations like this.
But this is so amazing.
(41:53):
You know what you, what you'redoing and I want to really
acknowledge what you're doingand appreciate because you are
picking up so many real lifestories.
And so the initial, the visionthat the Lord gave me was not to
have detailed conversationslike this, but it was just a
short motivational words orwords of encouragement or few
(42:15):
words that can help people intheir daily walk with life.
Nancy Bruscher (42:19):
But in this season, uh, we're also going to
introduce some detailedconversations and probably have
you as a guest and I might askyou questions you're gonna put
me on the spot, I'm gonna putthose in the show notes, because
I think there's going to be alot of people that are saying
well, nancy, I want more, I wantmore.
(42:39):
I really love what he's saying,I love how he's sharing this
and so.
Sunny Kapoor (42:44):
I want to.
I want people to be able to getin touch with you and continue
following you and get get thesenuggets from you.
Nancy Bruscher (42:50):
Thank you.
Sunny Kapoor (42:51):
Thank you, appreciate that Well.
As we wrap up, what are yougrateful for?
Well, I turned 42 yesterday wasmy birthday.
So I'm grateful for life forthis grace of serving him and,
yeah, just excited for the nextseason that has come our way and
I'm excited to see how the lordwill use me, even in this part
(43:12):
of the world.
And I'm grateful for life forcalling over my life, my family.
Yeah, I'm just grateful.
Nancy Bruscher (43:22):
That's awesome.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, thank you again for yourtime.
I know that you're busy.
I do appreciate it.
I've loved chatting with youand I can't wait to see what
God's going to do.
Sunny Kapoor (43:34):
Amen.
Thank you so much for having me.
It was my joy, honor andabsolute blessing to be on this
podcast.
Nancy Bruscher (43:43):
Thank you.
Sunny Kapoor (43:44):
Yeah.
Nancy Bruscher (43:45):
On Ordinary People, extraordinary Things.
Your story is his glory.
I'm praying that this episodehas not only inspired you, but
it will empower you to act inwhatever way that God is calling
you.
For episode 102, we'll haveJamie, who will share her
amazing story about findingJesus in jail.
(44:05):
We'll see you soon.
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