May 11, 2025 • 51 mins
What does it take to truly change a life marked by decades of addiction and incarceration? For Jamie, it was an encounter with Jesus in the most unexpected place – a jail cell where she faced a potential 27-year sentence.
In this raw and powerful conversation, Jamie takes us through her journey of repeated imprisonment that began at age 24. After a divorce left her questioning her identity as both a wife and mother of five, she turned to substances to numb the pain, setting off a nearly 20-year cycle of addiction, incarceration, brief periods of sobriety, and inevitable return to old patterns.
The turning point came in 2015 when, labeled a "habitual criminal" by the courts, Jamie received a surprising visit from her estranged daughter who made a simple request: "Mom, if you start praying and reading the Bible, I'll come back to see you." That promise – and the relationship it represented – sparked something profound. Through tears on her cell floor, Jamie cried out to a God she didn't know, beginning a transformation that would ultimately break the cycle that had defined her life.
Jamie's story challenges our assumptions about redemption and rehabilitation. She offers unique insights into prison culture, the process of becoming "institutionalized," and the overwhelming challenges of reintegration into society.
Today, Jamie works in ministry, has rebuilt relationships with all five of her children, and carries a special heart for those still incarcerated. Her testimony stands as living proof of 2 Corinthians 5:17: "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." Listen and discover how one person's belief – both human and divine – can change everything.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nancy Bruscher (00:01):
Welcome to Ordinary People, extraordinary
Things.
I'm your host, nancy Bruscher,and I'm so glad you've joined us
for our 102nd episode.
You're in for a treat.
Today I get to talk with Jamie,who shares how she met Jesus in
a jail cell.
After years of trying to breakunhealthy habits on her own,
(00:23):
everything changed when Godmiraculously turned her heart
and her life around.
Before we dive in, I want tosay happy Mother's Day.
I'm so thankful for my mom andthat I get to be a mom to two
amazing kids.
If today is a joyful one foryou, I'm celebrating with you.
(00:44):
If today brings sadness, I'mpraying for you.
These kinds of days often stirup memories, and some of these
memories you have on old homevideos that you can't watch
anymore because they're not indigital form.
I'd love to help Go togenerations2generationscom
Generations is plural and two isT-O and stay tuned until the
(01:08):
end of the episode for a specialdiscount on video transfers.
Let's get started.
Welcome to Ordinary People,Extraordinary Things.
I'm here with Jamie.
Jamie, thanks for being on.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I'm excited.
I'm so thankful that youdecided to come and share your
story with all of our listeners.
Jamie Markley (01:27):
Yes, I don't want anyone to feel like they're
alone in this.
Nancy Bruscher (01:31):
So if people don't know who you are, what
three words or phrases would youuse to describe yourself?
Jamie Markley (01:37):
The first one is understanding, also, lately,
given the circumstances, curiousand and very, very empathetic,
so those are really good.
Yeah, that's kind of the seasonI'm in.
Are those three stood out when,when I thought about them, like
these are the three that arethe strongest right now.
Nancy Bruscher (01:57):
I like how you bring up right now.
I think that that's interesting.
How maybe how you woulddescribe yourself at different
points in your life could change.
Obviously yes, sometimes daily,right?
Sure, yeah, so we get to talkabout how you came to know Jesus
in jail, absolutely yes, sothat's just like throw it out
(02:20):
there right?
Jamie Markley (02:21):
Okay, Just grab this and tell me about it.
Nancy Bruscher (02:28):
Maybe we should step back on what brought you to
jail.
How did you end up in jail andhow old were you?
Can you give us a little bit ofthat story?
Jamie Markley (02:35):
I'll give you the background.
So my going inside to jail forthe first time was 2004, shortly
followed by a divorce fromabout a nine year relationship.
I had already had all five ofmy children by then, and you
were how?
Old 24.
Once the divorce happened, Ithought oh no, I'm not a mom
(02:59):
right now, I'm not a wife.
Who am I?
What am I gonna do?
Well, along came all theseemotions that I started to numb
with alcohol, drugs, chaos, alot of confusion.
So shortly followed, as usual,I went to jail and was given a
(03:20):
two and a half year sentence forprison.
So from jail to prison, I wentin 2004.
Nancy Bruscher (03:26):
Okay, Honestly, I don't.
What's the difference?
Jamie Markley (03:30):
So jail is a county facility.
Okay, so those are temporarysentences.
The longest I think you canserve in jail in a county jail
would be one year.
Okay, anything additional isyou get transferred to a state
facility which is a prison.
Nancy Bruscher (03:48):
Okay, and what was your?
What?
Why were you in it?
Thank you.
Jamie Markley (03:54):
I was charged with burglary and trying to
remember what else stuck, Ithink it burglary and possession
of a firearm.
Okay, I kind of remember whatelse stuck.
I think it was burglary andpossession of a firearm.
Okay, per the divorce we wentthrough mediation.
I could either afford the houseor just the utility, so the
agreement was I would remove mybelongings from the home while
(04:16):
he was not at work and a friendof mine helped me remove those.
The locks had been changed andI went through the doggy door to
open the door and the neighbordidn't recognize the truck
because I drove a minivan,couldn't load my things, so it
was a borrowed truck and calledthe police.
Given, I was so young I didn'tknow the law and I was charged
(04:37):
with burglary.
Nancy Bruscher (04:39):
Okay, so this was your first sentence.
Is that the right way to say it?
Yep, Okay, so kind of like anodd that seems kind of weird.
Jamie Markley (04:49):
The charge itself is bizarre, however, the
behavior that led to it.
It's just I was doing all kindsof things harming other people
in the sense that offending themor invading their space or just
not being aware of and this isall due to an addiction, you
(05:12):
know.
Nancy Bruscher (05:12):
You're saying if I was sober, if I was clean and
I went through a doggy door, Iprobably wouldn't have had this
problem.
Right, right, okay, yes, Iprobably would have contacted
law enforcement and said here'smy paperwork.
Jamie Markley (05:23):
here's the agreement.
I'm supposed to enter the homenow and remove my right, Right,
Okay, Okay.
I probably would have contactedlaw enforcement and said here's
my paperwork.
Nancy Bruscher (05:30):
Here's the agreement.
I'm supposed to enter the homenow and remove my belongings.
Okay, absolutely yes, okay.
So this was two and a halfyears, you said for Okay.
Jamie Markley (05:38):
So I went into the prison facility in 2004,
served that time very young, Puton a minimum or I mean a medium
security yard.
A lot of people were doing life.
It was a crash course on somerealities Between the jail and
(05:58):
going to the prison.
It was a little over threeyears.
I was gone and released in 2006.
Nancy Bruscher (06:07):
little over three years I was gone and
released in 2006.
So you said it was a crash,crash course, what in reality
and what, what.
Jamie Markley (06:11):
What do you?
Well, you know the divorce andthe house and the kids and these
things.
I've thought to myself at thatpoint when that had happened, I
had lost everything.
I hadn't.
You don't really loseeverything until you lose your
freedom to your identity, yourright to make your own decisions
.
At that point I felt, wow, thisis what losing everything
(06:33):
really feels like.
And then to see kind of theother culture, you see movies
and you figure that prisons areran this way and no, they're
really not.
Not, it's a really dark place.
It's a very dark place, a lotof broken people.
Yeah, yeah, so there was somerealities and you have to look
(06:54):
at yourself.
Right, you have a lot of timeto think and what's something
different than we see in a movieum.
So for females, I believe theincarceration is a completely
different experience.
It's not as much violence organg ran as, say, the males
would run theirs, becausefemales are nurturing right.
(07:16):
They tend to connect to oneanother in whatever unhealthy
way that might be, so maybe notas much segregation, so it's not
like that.
But the food is horrible andthe company's all over the place
, yeah, and it's corrupt as well.
Nancy Bruscher (07:38):
Sure.
So in 2006, you got out andthen you were 26?
Yep, 26 going on 27.
Jamie Markley (07:48):
Okay, and I'm home for about a year, find
myself back in addiction.
So I'm trying to just operateoff just sobriety and kind of
find my way, and I've been astay-at-home mom now since I was
17.
Now I've been incarcerated,divorced, so I'm trying to
(08:09):
incorporate some kind of successin life skills of sobriety
alone, which unfortunately wasvery short-lived at that point
and ended up with another prisonsentence in 2007.
Do you mind sharing what thatwas?
I'm trying to remember whatthis one was.
Nancy Bruscher (08:29):
I guess it doesn't matter.
Jamie Markley (08:30):
These were all drug-related charges.
Nancy Bruscher (08:33):
Yes, absolutely.
Jamie Markley (08:34):
Okay, May have been evading law enforcement.
May have been the actual charge.
Nancy Bruscher (08:40):
But it all kind of stems from a drug addiction.
Jamie Markley (08:43):
It's all addiction-related.
Never any violence towardsanyone.
Just trying to get away withwhat I could to feed the
addiction right, yeah.
Along with that comes a lot ofchaos and a lot of illegal
behavior.
Nancy Bruscher (08:58):
Were you sober in prison?
Yes, Okay, yes, I didn't knowif that was a time of well, you
can still get away with gettingthis and this and you can.
Jamie Markley (09:08):
It's very prevalent, it just for me, it
just wasn't something I wasinterested in.
Once I got in there, I reallykind of wanted to be alert and
aware of my surroundings.
So anything to diminish thatfelt very unsafe.
So 2007, I was given afive-year sentence oh wow, and
(09:34):
went into a maximum securityyard this time.
Oh wow, another differentculture there.
You don't ask people how muchtime they have.
It's highly offensive.
Some have 200 plus years.
A lot are not leaving, theydon't have release dates and
they don't want to hear aboutyours.
(09:54):
It's offensive.
So more life lessons.
I actually tried to pick upsome trade skills and stuff
during this sentence, and so Iwas a teacher's assistant and I
helped with that, and I workedfor motor vehicle department,
which is answering the phonesand so you answer the phones
like people.
Nancy Bruscher (10:13):
I'm gonna I don't know if I'm using the
right words like outside wouldcall and they might get you so
in the state of Arizona allthose phone calls are routed to
an inmate first.
Jamie Markley (10:25):
Oh wow, you call those numbers and you get an
inmate.
If personal information is tobe exchanged, we then transfer
them to the next level operator,who will obviously has access
and can be cleared for securityto do so Okay, oh, very
interesting.
Nancy Bruscher (10:45):
Okay, so you had five years, you're trying to
get some skills.
Did you do all five years orwas it reduced?
Jamie Markley (10:51):
So it's 85% of that.
I think I was about four monthsshy of a total of five years.
Wow.
So cause you're sitting in jailand you're waiting for
sentencing, and so you're gone.
At that point as as well,sometimes they give you the
credit for the days you sit injail could be six months, could
be nine months, could be acouple weeks, and so, um yep,
(11:14):
almost five years wow, how doyou survive that this we're
already talking of of severalyears?
Nancy Bruscher (11:24):
how, how did survive that?
How did you keep going day byday?
Jamie Markley (11:31):
You know, you figure, the alternative is what
To not?
I mean those are our choices.
Not every day is easy, but somany people in there, a lot of
women in there, hearing theirstories, seeing where they come
from, is so much worse than whatI had seen or been through.
I felt at the time and so itkind of put a little context
(11:52):
into you're just beingirresponsible.
These people actually have somereal deep traumas.
You just build a little familyin there, you actually become
quite connected with you.
Just build a little family inthere, you actually become quite
connected with.
I've met some of my bestfriends.
I still have to this very dayon the inside.
A lot of people just make onebad choice.
For some it's a whole lifestyle.
(12:14):
I was young, still saw lotsahead, so at this point I'm not
even 30 yet.
Yeah, you know, and there is arelease date right there, Right,
so there is that opportunity totry again to do something
different.
Okay so, and now I'm thinkingwell, I've got five years
sobriety behind me, sodefinitely this must be it.
Then.
Nancy Bruscher (12:34):
Yeah.
Jamie Markley (12:35):
Because I've been gone a long time.
Nancy Bruscher (12:36):
Yeah, okay, so you're released in 2011.
Okay, you're better at maththan me.
Jamie Markley (13:06):
Well, my cat might be off sometimes, so I'm
going to.
Yeah, we're estimating here,but it was 2011.
Don't text us saying that wasoff by three months and now
you're on parole and you've gotthese stipulations.
You must do this and you mustdo this.
So this is employment, housing,classes, fees, and so you're up
against these things.
And a lot of people come home.
They don't have anidentification card, they don't
have job skills.
A lot of their family, ifyou're gone a while or have
offended them right, or yourcrime is against them, they
don't want you to come home,sure?
(13:27):
So these are all obstacles youface.
Anything overwhelming in it foran addict can be just.
The sky is blue and I have tocheck in with PO today and off
and running you go.
I mean, these things happenbefore you realize they're
happening.
You're just in it.
Nancy Bruscher (13:46):
And you are you talking about that, and then
your sobriety is gone again.
It's just okay.
Jamie Markley (13:53):
You think, okay, well, I'm just gonna go and have
a drink or I'm just gonna goand see my old friend from back
then and let him see I'm doingwell and can I help him.
And next thing you know you'reright in the same boat you were
and you're looking at anothersentence.
Nancy Bruscher (14:08):
Okay, so 2011,.
You got out.
You weren't able to stay sobervery long.
Jamie Markley (14:15):
I think I had almost about nine months at that
point.
Okay, still trying to learn jobskills, don't have
transportation.
So these are my goals that I'vebeen thinking of for five years
.
I want to do this and this andthis, and once you forget are
the little details that go intothat.
How are you going to get towork?
How are you going to go andcheck in?
Where are you going to stay?
(14:37):
How are you going to pay thosefees, because if they're not
paid, you go back in.
It's a violation.
And so these are all challengesyou face, and there are answers
for each and every one.
Sometimes it's hard to ask forthat help, though, or to know
what questions to ask to getthat help.
So, about nine months, clean,and find myself out there and
(15:00):
using once again, and a goodfriend of mine, his father,
overdosed one night and the nextmorning I was arrested.
I was still on supervision atthis point, and so I had
violated my parole and went backin for yet another sentence.
Oh wow, yeah, so these are justexamples.
Nancy Bruscher (15:21):
So probably like 2012, maybe 2012.
These are just examples, soprobably like 2012, maybe 2012.
Jamie Markley (15:26):
These are short sentences.
This was a parole violation soI went in for I'm going to say
about 9, 10 months on that one.
Nancy Bruscher (15:33):
Okay, so then you were clean again for that 9,
10 months.
Yep, okay, yep.
Jamie Markley (15:38):
And I'm thinking, okay, this has got to stop, but
released this time.
Now I have no supervision.
The parole has ended while I'min prison, so I'm finishing my
parole in prison because I hadviolated, Okay.
Okay, so now I get out and Idon't have all these
stipulations and get into yetanother unhealthy relationship
(16:02):
surrounded by addiction andcodependency.
And this is what I know nowguilt from not being with the
kids, the family face anothershort sentence 2013.
Okay, and that was how longthis one was?
About a year and a half.
Nancy Bruscher (16:19):
Okay, and all still kind of to do with drugs
and Yep, all addiction, yeah,all addiction, and it's worth
mentioning that.
Jamie Markley (16:28):
The constant that I didn't see at the time.
And now, looking back, I keptgoing right back to the same
neighborhood, the same peopletrying to do something different
with all the same things.
So right Definition of insanity.
I didn't even try sobriety atthat point.
(16:49):
Once I was released, I justkind of threw my hands up and
said I'm in it now Okay, yeah, Imean honestly at some point.
Nancy Bruscher (16:56):
That's what I'm thinking is do you just give up
on sobriety, because yeah,what's the point now?
Jamie Markley (17:02):
I'm just going to go bigger and make money and
meet the top people, and whichcomes with bigger consequences.
Right, we're not thinking ofthat yet.
So I'm home not even a year,and looking at another sentence
Okay, and so that's 2015.
Nancy Bruscher (17:19):
Okay.
Jamie Markley (17:20):
By this point, I don't even know how many
felonies are out there.
My record's quite extensive.
At this point, I'm doinganything I can to avoid law
enforcement.
I had moved out of state.
Come back, you name it.
So 2015 I get arrested Again,and this one I do remember,
(17:40):
given it's the last one.
I had Tylenol 3s, which is anarcotic without a prescription,
and a slew of other chargesthat gets reduced down to that,
but given my background, I endedup with a nine-year sentence.
Nancy Bruscher (17:54):
Nine years, because is there and you're
going to maybe see my being sonaive but is there a three
strikes and you're out, not forArizona, what is that?
Jamie Markley (18:05):
Yeah, so actually during ironically enough,
during sentencing on this lastsentence in 2015, the judge
actually did say verbatim atthis point, the court system
considers you a habitualcriminal, the court system
considers you a habitualcriminal, and I just remember
(18:25):
those words hitting me so hard,like this is what I am, this is
where I'm at, and at that point,the sentence that was being
threatened was 27 years.
Because of not the violence ofthe crime or what the crimes
were themselves, but because ofthe consistency of you're going
back in, you're going back in,you're going back in, you're
going back in, and nothing hadchanged.
They'd given me many chances.
(18:46):
Truly, they had no threestrikes in Arizona.
Nancy Bruscher (18:51):
Okay, california , yes, I've kind of heard that,
so I was wondering what thatmeant, or if it was even real, I
guess.
It is.
Jamie Markley (18:58):
It is.
Each state varies with theirsentencing laws and their you
know.
Nancy Bruscher (19:04):
Okay, okay, so this was 2015.
It was possibly 27 years.
It got knocked down to nine.
Jamie Markley (19:11):
Yes, okay, this is where things start changing.
Yay, thank you, jesus.
So 2015, I go into jail.
I'm not even sure what chargesare out there, nor do I care.
Nancy Bruscher (19:27):
Sorry, how old are you at this point?
Oh boy, let's see, you were 24in 2004, so 35?
, 35, there you go, yes, yes,hey, good job, Yay math.
Jamie Markley (19:38):
So, yes, at 35 years old, at this point, I
don't really have a relationshipwith the kids.
I've been there, been gone,been there, been gone.
My family's just like this isjust what you do.
Anything, any promises I haveor feelings are just.
They're not valid at this point.
They've heard it all as far asfamily goes, just like tough
(20:01):
love.
As far as I go, I just don'tsee a way out of this.
I just think that this is justmy lot in life.
This is what I know, 2015,.
I go into jail, pretty broken,pretty lost, thinking I'm gonna
serve 27 years.
So the public defender comes inand says you have 48 hours to
sign this plea agreement, serve27 years.
So the public defender comes inand says you have 48 hours to
(20:23):
sign this plea agreement for 27years, or we go to trial,
meaning who knows what happens,right?
So I get back to my jail celland I tell them walk me down.
I'm trying to wrap my headaround.
Okay, 27 years, it's possible Idie in prison at this point.
Nancy Bruscher (20:49):
Right, that's about I mean roughly you'd be,
about 65.
Jamie Markley (20:51):
Who knows right.
Nancy Bruscher (20:52):
Who knows?
Jamie Markley (20:53):
what health issues you come up against or,
at that point, the majority ofyour life has been spent inside,
which I've become quiteaccustomed to and learned how to
navigate inside and becomesuccessful inside, if that makes
sense.
So I'm able to get better jobsand I know I know the population
(21:16):
now, like they know who I amand is it in a way, easier to
navigate?
Nancy Bruscher (21:22):
That might be a dumb question.
Jamie Markley (21:24):
It is so you're used to the chaos in addiction.
Everything in your life ischaos, right?
So that becomes an addiction initself.
The chaos and going insidewhere everything's just chaotic,
you never know what's happening, that's a familiar state and so
, yeah, it becomes really simpleto navigate.
(21:45):
Sure.
Nancy Bruscher (21:47):
Yeah, absolutely , that's really interesting.
Jamie Markley (21:50):
Yeah, yeah, and you don't.
You know, you just think thatthis is, the laws are ridiculous
, or it's you against lawenforcement, and so this is the
mentality you go in there with.
And that's the mentality you goin there with, and that's the
mentality that's in there, youknow, like us against them, when
in fact the reality is no, it'syou against yourself.
Nancy Bruscher (22:13):
Right, that's profound yeah.
Jamie Markley (22:15):
Yeah, so 2015,.
I locked myself down in thislittle tiny cell and I'm
thinking now, what?
How did I get here?
What is happening?
What does this look like?
Can I do 27 years?
And if I can't, what's thealternative?
Right, so slowly, my parentsstart coming for visits as I'm
(22:37):
waiting for the court system toprocess me, sentence me, and I'm
like, oh, my parents.
But I'm seeing them throughthis plexiglass and I'm like,
wow, they're getting older.
Oh, my gosh, they have healthissues.
What am I doing?
So this weight of the guilt ofeverything, just just everything
(22:58):
, is really heavy and I'm like,wow, how do you even begin to
process something like that?
So I'm laying in my jail cell,which I didn't leave, often kind
of in a depression and just areal dark place.
My name gets called.
I'm like my parents alreadycame for my visit this week.
So I get up and I go and I sitdown and look once again and
(23:22):
here's my oldest daughter, who Ihadn't seen in years at this
point and all this stuff.
I'd been numb for so long.
Then I looked at her and I just, you know, here, they all come
flooding out and she visits totell me that she's going active
(23:42):
duty military and she's leavingArizona.
She was told that I was in jailand she just wanted to come and
see me see how I am.
And I was so excited and justin shock.
Before she left she said Mom,if you start praying and reading
(24:04):
the Bible, I'll come back tosee you.
I said, of course I will RightAnything to see my kid, sure.
So now I'm seeing my parentsare coming, my child is coming.
Is there a light at the end ofthis tunnel?
Right.
So now I have a glimmer of whatI think is hope.
So I get back to my cell andI'm excited.
(24:26):
I'm on this adrenaline rush ofoh my daughter loves me still.
And then I think, oh my gosh, Ijust made her a promise, I can't
lie.
So there in that jail cell Ihit my knees doing the ugly, cry
, crying and praying to a God Idon't know, I know nothing about
(24:51):
, I have no idea what it means.
And I start to read this big,thick Bible and I have no idea
what the context is.
Here, About a month later,she's visiting.
My parents are coming.
Nancy Bruscher (25:05):
So she did come back to visit.
She did.
Was she on active duty?
Did she get?
Jamie Markley (25:10):
I think she came back or we were doing phone
calls, okay, okay.
Don't quote me.
Some things are still cloudy,that's fine.
No, we continued through phones, letters, that type of thing,
to have contact.
Yeah, my parents were coming.
I had one friend that wascoming consistently, which these
(25:30):
are things I never had in anyprevious sentence.
I just kind of flew through it,solo Very limited
communications, which was fine.
Sometimes it's easier to dothat.
Then church is coming, right,they're coming in and they're
doing services.
I'm like, well, maybe if I goI'll get a better understanding
of this.
There's got to be something toit.
(25:50):
So you are reading the Bible.
Nancy Bruscher (25:52):
I am.
I don't know what it means.
Yeah.
Jamie Markley (25:55):
I don't have the context, the story.
There's definitely not a hugefollowing in there at this point
.
Like who do I go and ask?
Yeah, sure.
I start going to church that'scoming in and doing services.
About a month later I getanother visit from the attorney
and he says listen, I have oneplea, it's a nine-year sentence.
(26:16):
It was three charges 2.5stacked on top of 2.5 stacked on
top of 4.5, to total nine years.
I said where do I sign?
Let's do this, Get me out ofhere, let's start the sentence.
And we did so.
27 years to nine years Ithought was fabulous.
Nancy Bruscher (26:42):
Yeah.
Is there a reason?
Or do you think that's just oneof God's little miracles, or
you?
Jamie Markley (26:46):
know I can tell you after the first night that I
prayed.
I had voluntarily locked myselfdown.
I just wanted to be segregated.
I didn't want to deal withanyone.
I couldn't wrap my head aroundthat.
27 years I thought I was facing.
And the next morning I decidedyou know what?
I'm going to get out of my bedtoday and I'm just going to have
(27:10):
hope.
I'm just going to try.
If it's 27 years, that's fine.
Maybe they'll learn from mymistakes.
My kids will you know.
Maybe I can find someforgiveness, some kind of
direction here.
So little did I know that washim working already right.
So I walk out of the cell andI'm looking around the jail and
(27:31):
there must be, I would say, over100 women housed in that small
area.
And I'm looking around and I'mthinking I had such love for
each and every one.
It was like I could see them,their pains and their hurts, and
their moms right, and theirdaughters and their sisters.
They're somebody to somebodyand I just wanted to help, like
(27:59):
I just wanted to help.
I can't even explain it.
Then, shortly, I had that visitwith the attorney.
Well, this is what we'reactually looking at now.
So, yeah, I was excited.
There was some hope, there wassome light at the end of the
tunnel and I'm thinking thismust be the Lord.
Is this what everybody's talksabout?
(28:19):
Mm-hmm, what's happening?
And so I entered that sentencefor the first time out of all
five of them, with hope,confidence, like just love, like
I had a love.
I wasn't numb, I wasn't just,like you know.
Nancy Bruscher (28:37):
That's so interesting.
So you went to church in jailand kept reading.
What did these nine years looklike for you in jail?
I went in.
I'm sorry.
Jamie Markley (28:49):
No, that's okay, it's incarceration.
Nancy Bruscher (28:51):
Okay, I'll just throw them together, possibly, I
don't expect people to justknow Thank goodness.
Jamie Markley (28:58):
So I went in and I already know the routine.
You're gonna get placed here.
You gotta find your job.
You hope you get a goodroommate like this is just what
it is.
So they put me in the statemandated classes and I end up
getting a pretty good job.
Two years in, they review mycase again not my charges, but
my prison case file and I'm sentdown to minimum security for
(29:22):
the first time in any sentenceand I'm like which are better
jobs, more opportunities, alittle more freedom.
I'm taking these classes, I'mgoing to some support groups,
I'm still attending church.
The Bible's making sense, I'mbuilding a relationship with him
, diving into self and justreally looking at some things,
(29:43):
and some generational thingscome up and starting to heal,
which is painful.
Right, get this good job andthe next five years.
Nancy Bruscher (29:51):
What is a job that you get?
What's a good job?
Jamie Markley (29:53):
So the first one I got is a printing factory.
So they run printing pressesand we print oh my gosh, we
print stuff for some of thestate facilities, county
facilities, the log books, youname it.
Oh, okay, we print businesscards, so that was something
that was really neat.
(30:15):
Okay, it seemed like every jobthat I had gotten in there I
would end up being a lead.
I would just catch on reallyquick, which helps to build your
confidence skill sets,knowledge, friends, community
and then you can help others,and when you're training
somebody else, that feelingfeels good too.
Right, help.
Somebody worked at the printshop for about three years, I
(30:35):
think.
It was ended up at a garmentshop, became one of the people
that ran that as well, and whatthat was is we made all the
undergarments for all the prisonsystems.
there's the males and thefemales you know which is a
whole another factory, and I didthat for the rest of the males
and the females, which is awhole other factory, and I did
that for the rest of thesentence.
So the remainder would havebeen another three.
Nancy Bruscher (30:56):
Okay, yeah, so you get out when you're about
44?
.
Jamie Markley (31:02):
I was 41.
Nancy Bruscher (31:05):
Oh sorry, no, that's okay 41.
Jamie Markley (31:08):
41.
And I'm kind of guesstimatingtoo, so we'll just roll with
this.
Okay's okay.
41.
, 41.
And I'm kind of guesstimatingtoo, so we'll just roll with
this, okay, great 41 soundsgreat, so you finally get out.
I do Now.
I've built relationships tooright.
Nancy Bruscher (31:21):
Inside and out.
Yes, okay, and what year isthis?
Jamie Markley (31:25):
So this is 2022.
Nancy Bruscher (31:28):
Okay so not very long ago.
No.
What has life been like, do yousay on the outside?
Is that?
Jamie Markley (31:37):
Oh boy, so 2022, given that I had actually done
some work on myself.
I've built a community, gainedsome knowledge, some skills.
I didn't go back to the sameplace with the same people.
Yay, I went to a differentplace and started on my own and
had actually saved some moneyfor the release, started working
(31:59):
on my credit and my fines whileI was still inside.
Now I'm gaining these lifeskills right that I've been
trying to learn for so long onmy own.
So I'm released and I go to adifferent place and I get a
really nice job in a smalllittle ranch town and doing
great.
(32:19):
My parents are about two hoursaway at this point.
Both of my dad's been fightingcancer for about seven years.
By this time.
My mom's got COPD On my.
I'm driving that two hours tosee them to do their grocery
shopping or pick up their medsthose types of things.
I'm home for about four monthsand my mom calls and she says
(32:43):
hey, we need you home now.
Okay, she said it's time.
So while I was gone, we had hadthe conversation.
I have two brothers.
I'm the only girl.
I'm going to be their caretaker.
You know, it's just where we'reall comfortable with that
decision and of course I agreedtheir health had declined quite
a bit since I had gotten home,and so that night I packed up
(33:05):
what little belongings I hadinto my car and I moved back to
that same little town, to thesame little house.
Within two months my parentswere both home on hospice, so I
took care of both of them forabout eight months.
Dad passed May of 23, mompassed July of 23.
Nancy Bruscher (33:28):
Oh wow, Were you able to stay sober during all
this?
No.
Jamie Markley (33:33):
I had started drinking, okay, actually.
Nancy Bruscher (33:36):
I was going to say now you're back to that spot
.
Yes, and this is a lot ofemotions, right?
Jamie Markley (33:43):
Sure, yeah, and honor, very fulfilling, very
healing.
I got to help them.
They got their final wishescarried out as well, as I still
don't know how to use tap to payright or Apple Pay, or you know
.
So I'm still navigating allthese things and I remember
(34:04):
taking my mom her meds one nightand she says are you drinking
every night?
And it dawned on me this hadbeen going on for about two
weeks and I thought to myself ohmy gosh, I am.
So that stopped real quick.
I thought, oh no, we're notdoing this.
Nancy Bruscher (34:21):
Okay, so you had started drinking.
You hadn't gotten to the drugs,though.
Oh, no, no, no.
Okay, but just like kind ofdrinking, and then, oh man, this
could become a.
Yeah, I didn't even realize itwas daily at that point.
Jamie Markley (34:33):
Yeah, Turning into a nurse and a caretaker
pretty much overnight.
I was kind of on autopilot andset a lot of the emotional aside
.
Emotions at that point arestill kind of hard to identify
and process because you know Ihad been numb for so many years.
And so on the inside, yes, yes,I start to feel things, and
things aren't as cloudy, butthey're still hard to identify.
(34:54):
Yeah, sure, so.
So they pass September.
So my older brother's,incarcerated at that point as
well, had been gone for aboutseven, eight years I think, and
his release was coming upSeptember 1st, and so that's
another reality.
He had just lost our mom too,but he was gone.
So I picked him up.
(35:15):
I ended up leaving that townand moving back to the one I was
at when I was released inMuscat, arizona, which is where
my brother was as well.
We kind of got to navigate someof that together.
Nancy Bruscher (35:26):
And that was a good thing.
Jamie Markley (35:28):
Oh my gosh so helpful.
Nancy Bruscher (35:29):
Okay.
Jamie Markley (35:30):
Yeah, I love my brother.
Nancy Bruscher (35:31):
Yeah, well, one thing that you said before we
started I thought this wasreally profound is you talked
about how the military kind oflike breaks you down to build
you back up to what they want.
And maybe people would say theydon't agree, but I think that's
somewhat of what people thinkof when they think of the
(35:52):
military, and you said thatthat's kind of the way that the,
the prison system was, is they?
They tear you down but thenthey don't really help you get
another identity.
Is that what you said, or couldyou?
Jamie Markley (36:08):
yeah, I can elaborate on that.
So I think so for the militarythey do, right.
They strip you down, they putyou in the same clothing, you go
through the same regiment, butthey're building soldiers and
you're picking up team skills,life skills, and you have a
purpose, like they have an endgoal for you.
In the prison system, you'restripped of all your
(36:33):
individualism, right.
You don't even have a firstname anymore.
You're now just your prisonnumber or your last name.
That's it.
Oh wow, I did not know that.
And your outfit looks like heroutfit and her outfit and her
outfit, right, Uh-huh.
Okay, so you're.
It's kind of I don't know if Iwant to use the word warehousing
(36:53):
, but kind of.
Nancy Bruscher (36:54):
Okay.
Jamie Markley (36:55):
You know, everybody's kind of on the same
scale, same level.
You're all inmates, right, andyes, they offer programs, but
truly it's on you to make thosechanges.
There's some that are mandatory, yes, as they should be, but
like anything else, you get outof what you put into and given a
(37:18):
lot of them are ran by otherinmates.
Who's leading who?
Yeah, yeah.
So the rehabilitation, theself-awareness, the community,
the socializing, that's up toyou to learn, for you to correct
, and not everybody wants to dothat, not everybody wants to
accept their responsibility ofthe choices they made and how it
(37:40):
affected people and the rippleeffects of and that's not even
the hardest part.
The hardest part is having anew identity in Christ, right.
How do you take that outsidewith you?
Having a new identity in Christ, right, how do you take that
outside with you?
How do you walk that out?
Nancy Bruscher (37:55):
We were talking also about you become
institutionalized.
I think that's a word that'sused, isn't it?
It is Okay, yeah, and can youexplain what it means, maybe
specifically for you?
Jamie Markley (38:09):
Oh my gosh.
Institutionalized, yes, so forme, I can tell you a comical one
real quick, Okay, so in thereyou are.
A lot of these are common areasyou share with hundreds of
other people, so you can imaginethe germs and everything else
that's entailed with that.
So you wear your what we callshower shoes into the shower so
(38:30):
that your bare feet aren'ttouching water.
Whoever did whatever, I wenthome and got in the shower and
had mine on, and my mom wasquite offended.
I cleaned that tub and I'm like,oh my goodness, I can't believe
I did that.
Sure.
Yeah, so institutionalized youbecome, you're routine-based.
You get up at the same time,you eat at the same time, you
(38:51):
get up at the same time, you eatat the same time, you work at
the same time, you're closingyour door at the same time, your
phone calls are at the sametime, you're waiting in line,
you're asking permissions.
It's very regimented.
You're very routine based andwhat happens is it gets harder
to deal with change choices.
I I remember coming home, oneof the first stops I made.
(39:14):
Obviously, when you come home,you need those essentials, right
, your hygiene, these everydaythings.
And I went into Walmart andthere's at least a hundred
different shampoos and I justwas so overwhelmed in having to
make a choice, like I don't knowhow to.
How do you choose?
Do I want you know?
(39:34):
Right, it's sensory overloadgetting in a moving vehicle, the
motion sickness, the differentsmells.
Nancy Bruscher (39:42):
What is the change that stopped the
recidivism, that stopped thejust going back to the drugs?
Was it God and community?
Can you share what you thinkthat was?
Jamie Markley (39:59):
I think the integral part obviously was, of
course, it was God, absolutely.
Did I know at the time?
No, I didn't know what thatlooked like Salvation,
redemption, restoration I didn'teven know what these meant, let
alone to walk out.
It was definitely him andforgiveness.
(40:20):
So a lot of guilt.
I carried a lot of guilt andbeing able to help my parents
was very fulfilling and a lot offorgiveness came with that,
with my family.
And, honestly, the other partwas it only took one person to
believe in me, and that was mydaughter.
One person to say I believe inyou.
(40:41):
So, coming home to a communityand I'm not denying that my
charges or my actions at thispoint I've accepted
responsibility for them.
I've really recognized a lot ofthings.
I'm aware of those things and Ican spot them when they're
(41:02):
coming the same behaviors or thesame feeling I get when I was
in a certain situation, and so Ican make other choices.
I've been equipped and giventools to do so yeah, that's good
.
Nancy Bruscher (41:15):
I love that.
One person believed that's ittook one person.
Jamie Markley (41:19):
That was it.
Wow, yeah, well, two.
Nancy Bruscher (41:23):
He's amazing, right yeah yeah, to say that he
can redeem, and then to actuallysee that you have to want it.
Jamie Markley (41:33):
I know there's a lot of misgivings.
Forgiveness, redemption thattype of thing is like an
overnight and it's miraculousand everything's healed and you
feel better because you're achild of God.
And that's not the reality.
After being away from certainrelationships and society right.
After being away from certainrelationships and society right
for a little less than 20 years,there's a lot of bridging those
(41:56):
gaps.
The main thing is getting usedto asking for help.
You can't do it by yourself.
Nancy Bruscher (42:05):
Community's huge .
This is good.
This is so good.
I feel like I'm talking toomuch.
No, you're not.
If you could kind of sharewhere you are, we're in Colorado
, obviously.
If anyone doesn't know, we'rein Colorado, so we're not in
Arizona, so you've switchedplaces.
Yeah, and could you just kindof briefly tell us where you are
as far as maybe your walk withGod, your kids, sure A little
(42:28):
bit about your life right now,2024.
Jamie Markley (42:31):
At this point last year, I was, like I said,
living in Prescott.
My brother lived with me and wewere getting ready to go our
separate ways, and my daughterand I had been talking while I
was gone.
You know, it would be great tolive in the same state because
we'd been rebuilding thisrelationship for years.
And my oldest son too, right,he's in Colorado.
(42:54):
She's in Colorado, mygranddaughter's in Colorado, and
I'm thinking, well, my parentsare gone, what's to hold me here
?
Right?
So I relocated to Colorado fromArizona in May of 24.
So beautiful to be with my kidsfor the first time in how long,
right?
So?
And my granddaughter, wow, whata blessing that is.
(43:15):
So I moved here and I guess Ihad kind of put myself in a
little box of.
This is the manual labor jobsthat I'm gonna apply for,
because that's what I've alwaysdone.
These are the things I'velearned.
Sure, and door after door afterdoor was shut, and I thought,
(43:36):
well, I was starting to getdiscouraged, but I knew where to
turn to right.
Nancy Bruscher (43:42):
Not to the drugs this time.
Jamie Markley (43:44):
No, no, no, absolutely not Just in prayer.
My daughter says, Mom, thischurch you've been attending,
they have a position open.
I said in my mind.
I'm thinking, yeah right, who'sgoing to take a felon on, right
, right?
I thought, oh heck, let's justtry it.
So I muddled through thistechnology aspect of applying
(44:09):
for positions, which is alsodifficult, and did so and kind
of forgot about it and keptapplying.
Next thing, you know, I'm goingthrough interviews and got the
position and so I actually amwalking out ministry with a huge
community in a church setting.
Nancy Bruscher (44:31):
So, yeah.
I love it and you've rebuiltrelationships with two of your
kids, yeah, actually all five.
Jamie Markley (44:39):
Oh, I other two all five oh, I'm sorry, five I'm
sorry, yeah, more so.
I communicate with all five,everybody's at a different um
space of bonding forgivenessrelationship, but everybody's
willing.
So November of this I actuallywe all flew to Texas where my
(45:01):
second daughter's at, and it wasthe first time I was in the
same room with all five kidssince 2012.
Wow, interesting.
And they're all grown now Likeah, wow, yeah.
Nancy Bruscher (45:14):
That's even so redemptive in itself.
Jamie Markley (45:18):
It was that moment I had been wanting for
gosh almost 20 years, but to bepresent in it, you know.
Not to be there and say, yeah,I spent the week with them or I
went to a soccer game.
No, I was there and I waspresent and able to be there and
(45:38):
be present and accept whateverwas coming, whether it was anger
or understanding or questions,or regardless.
Yeah, and just opening thatdoor to where do you guys want
to go from here?
And it's your choice.
Nancy Bruscher (45:57):
And God, because of your story, has given you a
heart for those that areincarcerated is that right?
Jamie Markley (46:06):
yeah, absolutely so.
It is a mission field right ofthe broken and the forgotten,
often forgotten, and it's hugebecause we think, well, our
outreach is only the church or amission field overseas.
No, they're right here.
It can be your neighbor, it canbe a friend, it can be somebody
in the grocery store.
(46:26):
We just never know what peopleare going through and that
isolated feeling of beingincarcerated.
And when you come home you'restill somewhat isolated in your
mind because you feel likeyou're different.
You feel like you're wearing aneon shirt that says recently
incarcerated.
I don't know, sure.
And so how do you, how do youreintegrate?
(46:47):
What does that look like andwhat kind of help do you ask for
?
So I think those are spaces weneed to step into more.
Nancy Bruscher (46:54):
Yeah Well, I'm excited to see where God brings
you in that.
Jamie Markley (46:58):
Yeah, I am too, actually.
Yeah, colorado is verysupportive in this whole field.
We've done a lot of researchand they're amazing in the state
of Colorado to do these things.
There are so many programs outthere, so many.
Nancy Bruscher (47:14):
Yeah Well, good, I'll be excited to see where
God leads you in that.
Yeah, thanks, nancy, Iappreciate it Well, as we wrap
up, I'm sure people are going tohave more questions, but we're
going to have to wrap up fortoday.
What is your favorite Bibleverse or story?
Jamie Markley (47:30):
2 Corinthians 5.17.
Therefore, if anybody is inChrist, he is a new creation.
The old has passed away.
Nancy Bruscher (47:40):
Behold the new has has come.
Jamie Markley (47:40):
That's a good one yeah, it's true, it's really
good, it's real.
So, yeah, he's the answer, forsure, and because of grace, all
we have to do is ask right,that's amazing, yeah what are
you grateful for oh?
my goodness, so many thingsForgiveness and his, him walking
(48:03):
alongside me, the strength toeven walk through restoration.
I am so grateful for mydaughter saying I believe in you
, and I can't even tell you thehundreds of people that have
supported me in the last threeyears since I've been home.
I am just grateful for theopportunity, regardless what
(48:24):
those opportunities are, justthe opportunity.
Nancy Bruscher (48:29):
What kindness have you seen?
Or what kindness have you shown?
In the last week.
Jamie Markley (48:33):
Oh my gosh, the kindness I've shown.
Well, I'll tell you, it seemsas if people can just identify
if your stories are similar.
So I'm going to say that it's atwo-way street on the kindness
They've listened, connected, andthen I was able to tell them
(48:54):
how I got where I'm at now, fromwhere they are now, which is
where I was at three years ago.
So the kindness is theconnection, the honesty, and I
can't believe I'm able tominister to other people.
What a blessing.
Yeah, that's huge.
I think that's just kindnessright there.
(49:14):
Acceptance, acceptance, youknow, yeah.
Nancy Bruscher (49:20):
Well, I love you sharing your story and being
not ashamed to share it.
So thank you for just beinghonest and sharing your story.
And for those people who arelistening, who don't have any
idea what jail or prison lookslike, I'm so thankful.
But I hope that they might seesomething as far as how change
(49:43):
can actually happen, and I thinkall of us can need or want
change somehow in our life.
And then again, I just keep onsaying how the Bible is so real,
about how it says you're a newcreation, how it says all of
these things you're like, buthow, I mean, we kind of took
quite a bit of time goingthrough all of your times in
(50:04):
jail or prison, and I think thatthat was actually good, because
for me, even I started to be,uh, I don't think there's a way
out, right and I, and so if, ifyou are kind of going through
that with us of, ok, this is alot.
I hope that it was, becauseOtherwise we don't get to see
(50:27):
the other side.
If you just kind of like throwout numbers real quick, actually
what had to change and like how, how God and one person walking
with you was what was it?
What you needed, it wasn't, youknow.
(50:47):
You tried all these otherthings and it and it didn't work
.
So I'm just amazed at how theBible is true and through your
story we get to see anotheraspect of how it is.
Jamie Markley (50:59):
Yes, yes, he is the healer.
This is the truth.
Nancy Bruscher (51:04):
Well.
Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for listening onOrdinary People, extraordinary
Things.
Your story is His glory.
What an amazing story of howGod continues to change lives.
As promised, if you have oldhome videos that need to be
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I'll see you in two weeks for abrand new episode with Jennifer
Dukes Lee.
Welcome to Ordinary People, extraordinary
Things.
I'm your host, nancy Bruscher,and I'm so glad you've joined us
for our 102nd episode.
You're in for a treat.
Today I get to talk with Jamie,who shares how she met Jesus in
a jail cell.
After years of trying to breakunhealthy habits on her own,
(00:23):
everything changed when Godmiraculously turned her heart
and her life around.
Before we dive in, I want tosay happy Mother's Day.
I'm so thankful for my mom andthat I get to be a mom to two
amazing kids.
If today is a joyful one foryou, I'm celebrating with you.
(00:44):
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I'd love to help Go togenerations2generationscom
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(01:08):
end of the episode for a specialdiscount on video transfers.
Let's get started.
Welcome to Ordinary People,Extraordinary Things.
I'm here with Jamie.
Jamie, thanks for being on.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I'm excited.
I'm so thankful that youdecided to come and share your
story with all of our listeners.
Jamie Markley (01:27):
Yes, I don't want anyone to feel like they're
alone in this.
Nancy Bruscher (01:31):
So if people don't know who you are, what
three words or phrases would youuse to describe yourself?
Jamie Markley (01:37):
The first one is understanding, also, lately,
given the circumstances, curiousand and very, very empathetic,
so those are really good.
Yeah, that's kind of the seasonI'm in.
Are those three stood out when,when I thought about them, like
these are the three that arethe strongest right now.
Nancy Bruscher (01:57):
I like how you bring up right now.
I think that that's interesting.
How maybe how you woulddescribe yourself at different
points in your life could change.
Obviously yes, sometimes daily,right?
Sure, yeah, so we get to talkabout how you came to know Jesus
in jail, absolutely yes, sothat's just like throw it out
(02:20):
there right?
Jamie Markley (02:21):
Okay, Just grab this and tell me about it.
Nancy Bruscher (02:28):
Maybe we should step back on what brought you to
jail.
How did you end up in jail andhow old were you?
Can you give us a little bit ofthat story?
Jamie Markley (02:35):
I'll give you the background.
So my going inside to jail forthe first time was 2004, shortly
followed by a divorce fromabout a nine year relationship.
I had already had all five ofmy children by then, and you
were how?
Old 24.
Once the divorce happened, Ithought oh no, I'm not a mom
(02:59):
right now, I'm not a wife.
Who am I?
What am I gonna do?
Well, along came all theseemotions that I started to numb
with alcohol, drugs, chaos, alot of confusion.
So shortly followed, as usual,I went to jail and was given a
(03:20):
two and a half year sentence forprison.
So from jail to prison, I wentin 2004.
Nancy Bruscher (03:26):
Okay, Honestly, I don't.
What's the difference?
Jamie Markley (03:30):
So jail is a county facility.
Okay, so those are temporarysentences.
The longest I think you canserve in jail in a county jail
would be one year.
Okay, anything additional isyou get transferred to a state
facility which is a prison.
Nancy Bruscher (03:48):
Okay, and what was your?
What?
Why were you in it?
Thank you.
Jamie Markley (03:54):
I was charged with burglary and trying to
remember what else stuck, Ithink it burglary and possession
of a firearm.
Okay, I kind of remember whatelse stuck.
I think it was burglary andpossession of a firearm.
Okay, per the divorce we wentthrough mediation.
I could either afford the houseor just the utility, so the
agreement was I would remove mybelongings from the home while
(04:16):
he was not at work and a friendof mine helped me remove those.
The locks had been changed andI went through the doggy door to
open the door and the neighbordidn't recognize the truck
because I drove a minivan,couldn't load my things, so it
was a borrowed truck and calledthe police.
Given, I was so young I didn'tknow the law and I was charged
(04:37):
with burglary.
Nancy Bruscher (04:39):
Okay, so this was your first sentence.
Is that the right way to say it?
Yep, Okay, so kind of like anodd that seems kind of weird.
Jamie Markley (04:49):
The charge itself is bizarre, however, the
behavior that led to it.
It's just I was doing all kindsof things harming other people
in the sense that offending themor invading their space or just
not being aware of and this isall due to an addiction, you
(05:12):
know.
Nancy Bruscher (05:12):
You're saying if I was sober, if I was clean and
I went through a doggy door, Iprobably wouldn't have had this
problem.
Right, right, okay, yes, Iprobably would have contacted
law enforcement and said here'smy paperwork.
Jamie Markley (05:23):
here's the agreement.
I'm supposed to enter the homenow and remove my right, Right,
Okay, Okay.
I probably would have contactedlaw enforcement and said here's
my paperwork.
Nancy Bruscher (05:30):
Here's the agreement.
I'm supposed to enter the homenow and remove my belongings.
Okay, absolutely yes, okay.
So this was two and a halfyears, you said for Okay.
Jamie Markley (05:38):
So I went into the prison facility in 2004,
served that time very young, Puton a minimum or I mean a medium
security yard.
A lot of people were doing life.
It was a crash course on somerealities Between the jail and
(05:58):
going to the prison.
It was a little over threeyears.
I was gone and released in 2006.
Nancy Bruscher (06:07):
little over three years I was gone and
released in 2006.
So you said it was a crash,crash course, what in reality
and what, what.
Jamie Markley (06:11):
What do you?
Well, you know the divorce andthe house and the kids and these
things.
I've thought to myself at thatpoint when that had happened, I
had lost everything.
I hadn't.
You don't really loseeverything until you lose your
freedom to your identity, yourright to make your own decisions
.
At that point I felt, wow, thisis what losing everything
(06:33):
really feels like.
And then to see kind of theother culture, you see movies
and you figure that prisons areran this way and no, they're
really not.
Not, it's a really dark place.
It's a very dark place, a lotof broken people.
Yeah, yeah, so there was somerealities and you have to look
(06:54):
at yourself.
Right, you have a lot of timeto think and what's something
different than we see in a movieum.
So for females, I believe theincarceration is a completely
different experience.
It's not as much violence organg ran as, say, the males
would run theirs, becausefemales are nurturing right.
(07:16):
They tend to connect to oneanother in whatever unhealthy
way that might be, so maybe notas much segregation, so it's not
like that.
But the food is horrible andthe company's all over the place
, yeah, and it's corrupt as well.
Nancy Bruscher (07:38):
Sure.
So in 2006, you got out andthen you were 26?
Yep, 26 going on 27.
Jamie Markley (07:48):
Okay, and I'm home for about a year, find
myself back in addiction.
So I'm trying to just operateoff just sobriety and kind of
find my way, and I've been astay-at-home mom now since I was
17.
Now I've been incarcerated,divorced, so I'm trying to
(08:09):
incorporate some kind of successin life skills of sobriety
alone, which unfortunately wasvery short-lived at that point
and ended up with another prisonsentence in 2007.
Do you mind sharing what thatwas?
I'm trying to remember whatthis one was.
Nancy Bruscher (08:29):
I guess it doesn't matter.
Jamie Markley (08:30):
These were all drug-related charges.
Nancy Bruscher (08:33):
Yes, absolutely.
Jamie Markley (08:34):
Okay, May have been evading law enforcement.
May have been the actual charge.
Nancy Bruscher (08:40):
But it all kind of stems from a drug addiction.
Jamie Markley (08:43):
It's all addiction-related.
Never any violence towardsanyone.
Just trying to get away withwhat I could to feed the
addiction right, yeah.
Along with that comes a lot ofchaos and a lot of illegal
behavior.
Nancy Bruscher (08:58):
Were you sober in prison?
Yes, Okay, yes, I didn't knowif that was a time of well, you
can still get away with gettingthis and this and you can.
Jamie Markley (09:08):
It's very prevalent, it just for me, it
just wasn't something I wasinterested in.
Once I got in there, I reallykind of wanted to be alert and
aware of my surroundings.
So anything to diminish thatfelt very unsafe.
So 2007, I was given afive-year sentence oh wow, and
(09:34):
went into a maximum securityyard this time.
Oh wow, another differentculture there.
You don't ask people how muchtime they have.
It's highly offensive.
Some have 200 plus years.
A lot are not leaving, theydon't have release dates and
they don't want to hear aboutyours.
(09:54):
It's offensive.
So more life lessons.
I actually tried to pick upsome trade skills and stuff
during this sentence, and so Iwas a teacher's assistant and I
helped with that, and I workedfor motor vehicle department,
which is answering the phonesand so you answer the phones
like people.
Nancy Bruscher (10:13):
I'm gonna I don't know if I'm using the
right words like outside wouldcall and they might get you so
in the state of Arizona allthose phone calls are routed to
an inmate first.
Jamie Markley (10:25):
Oh wow, you call those numbers and you get an
inmate.
If personal information is tobe exchanged, we then transfer
them to the next level operator,who will obviously has access
and can be cleared for securityto do so Okay, oh, very
interesting.
Nancy Bruscher (10:45):
Okay, so you had five years, you're trying to
get some skills.
Did you do all five years orwas it reduced?
Jamie Markley (10:51):
So it's 85% of that.
I think I was about four monthsshy of a total of five years.
Wow.
So cause you're sitting in jailand you're waiting for
sentencing, and so you're gone.
At that point as as well,sometimes they give you the
credit for the days you sit injail could be six months, could
be nine months, could be acouple weeks, and so, um yep,
(11:14):
almost five years wow, how doyou survive that this we're
already talking of of severalyears?
Nancy Bruscher (11:24):
how, how did survive that?
How did you keep going day byday?
Jamie Markley (11:31):
You know, you figure, the alternative is what
To not?
I mean those are our choices.
Not every day is easy, but somany people in there, a lot of
women in there, hearing theirstories, seeing where they come
from, is so much worse than whatI had seen or been through.
I felt at the time and so itkind of put a little context
(11:52):
into you're just beingirresponsible.
These people actually have somereal deep traumas.
You just build a little familyin there, you actually become
quite connected with you.
Just build a little family inthere, you actually become quite
connected with.
I've met some of my bestfriends.
I still have to this very dayon the inside.
A lot of people just make onebad choice.
For some it's a whole lifestyle.
(12:14):
I was young, still saw lotsahead, so at this point I'm not
even 30 yet.
Yeah, you know, and there is arelease date right there, Right,
so there is that opportunity totry again to do something
different.
Okay so, and now I'm thinkingwell, I've got five years
sobriety behind me, sodefinitely this must be it.
Then.
Nancy Bruscher (12:34):
Yeah.
Jamie Markley (12:35):
Because I've been gone a long time.
Nancy Bruscher (12:36):
Yeah, okay, so you're released in 2011.
Okay, you're better at maththan me.
Jamie Markley (13:06):
Well, my cat might be off sometimes, so I'm
going to.
Yeah, we're estimating here,but it was 2011.
Don't text us saying that wasoff by three months and now
you're on parole and you've gotthese stipulations.
You must do this and you mustdo this.
So this is employment, housing,classes, fees, and so you're up
against these things.
And a lot of people come home.
They don't have anidentification card, they don't
have job skills.
A lot of their family, ifyou're gone a while or have
offended them right, or yourcrime is against them, they
don't want you to come home,sure?
(13:27):
So these are all obstacles youface.
Anything overwhelming in it foran addict can be just.
The sky is blue and I have tocheck in with PO today and off
and running you go.
I mean, these things happenbefore you realize they're
happening.
You're just in it.
Nancy Bruscher (13:46):
And you are you talking about that, and then
your sobriety is gone again.
It's just okay.
Jamie Markley (13:53):
You think, okay, well, I'm just gonna go and have
a drink or I'm just gonna goand see my old friend from back
then and let him see I'm doingwell and can I help him.
And next thing you know you'reright in the same boat you were
and you're looking at anothersentence.
Nancy Bruscher (14:08):
Okay, so 2011,.
You got out.
You weren't able to stay sobervery long.
Jamie Markley (14:15):
I think I had almost about nine months at that
point.
Okay, still trying to learn jobskills, don't have
transportation.
So these are my goals that I'vebeen thinking of for five years
.
I want to do this and this andthis, and once you forget are
the little details that go intothat.
How are you going to get towork?
How are you going to go andcheck in?
Where are you going to stay?
(14:37):
How are you going to pay thosefees, because if they're not
paid, you go back in.
It's a violation.
And so these are all challengesyou face, and there are answers
for each and every one.
Sometimes it's hard to ask forthat help, though, or to know
what questions to ask to getthat help.
So, about nine months, clean,and find myself out there and
(15:00):
using once again, and a goodfriend of mine, his father,
overdosed one night and the nextmorning I was arrested.
I was still on supervision atthis point, and so I had
violated my parole and went backin for yet another sentence.
Oh wow, yeah, so these are justexamples.
Nancy Bruscher (15:21):
So probably like 2012, maybe 2012.
These are just examples, soprobably like 2012, maybe 2012.
Jamie Markley (15:26):
These are short sentences.
This was a parole violation soI went in for I'm going to say
about 9, 10 months on that one.
Nancy Bruscher (15:33):
Okay, so then you were clean again for that 9,
10 months.
Yep, okay, yep.
Jamie Markley (15:38):
And I'm thinking, okay, this has got to stop, but
released this time.
Now I have no supervision.
The parole has ended while I'min prison, so I'm finishing my
parole in prison because I hadviolated, Okay.
Okay, so now I get out and Idon't have all these
stipulations and get into yetanother unhealthy relationship
(16:02):
surrounded by addiction andcodependency.
And this is what I know nowguilt from not being with the
kids, the family face anothershort sentence 2013.
Okay, and that was how longthis one was?
About a year and a half.
Nancy Bruscher (16:19):
Okay, and all still kind of to do with drugs
and Yep, all addiction, yeah,all addiction, and it's worth
mentioning that.
Jamie Markley (16:28):
The constant that I didn't see at the time.
And now, looking back, I keptgoing right back to the same
neighborhood, the same peopletrying to do something different
with all the same things.
So right Definition of insanity.
I didn't even try sobriety atthat point.
(16:49):
Once I was released, I justkind of threw my hands up and
said I'm in it now Okay, yeah, Imean honestly at some point.
Nancy Bruscher (16:56):
That's what I'm thinking is do you just give up
on sobriety, because yeah,what's the point now?
Jamie Markley (17:02):
I'm just going to go bigger and make money and
meet the top people, and whichcomes with bigger consequences.
Right, we're not thinking ofthat yet.
So I'm home not even a year,and looking at another sentence
Okay, and so that's 2015.
Nancy Bruscher (17:19):
Okay.
Jamie Markley (17:20):
By this point, I don't even know how many
felonies are out there.
My record's quite extensive.
At this point, I'm doinganything I can to avoid law
enforcement.
I had moved out of state.
Come back, you name it.
So 2015 I get arrested Again,and this one I do remember,
(17:40):
given it's the last one.
I had Tylenol 3s, which is anarcotic without a prescription,
and a slew of other chargesthat gets reduced down to that,
but given my background, I endedup with a nine-year sentence.
Nancy Bruscher (17:54):
Nine years, because is there and you're
going to maybe see my being sonaive but is there a three
strikes and you're out, not forArizona, what is that?
Jamie Markley (18:05):
Yeah, so actually during ironically enough,
during sentencing on this lastsentence in 2015, the judge
actually did say verbatim atthis point, the court system
considers you a habitualcriminal, the court system
considers you a habitualcriminal, and I just remember
(18:25):
those words hitting me so hard,like this is what I am, this is
where I'm at, and at that point,the sentence that was being
threatened was 27 years.
Because of not the violence ofthe crime or what the crimes
were themselves, but because ofthe consistency of you're going
back in, you're going back in,you're going back in, you're
going back in, and nothing hadchanged.
They'd given me many chances.
(18:46):
Truly, they had no threestrikes in Arizona.
Nancy Bruscher (18:51):
Okay, california , yes, I've kind of heard that,
so I was wondering what thatmeant, or if it was even real, I
guess.
It is.
Jamie Markley (18:58):
It is.
Each state varies with theirsentencing laws and their you
know.
Nancy Bruscher (19:04):
Okay, okay, so this was 2015.
It was possibly 27 years.
It got knocked down to nine.
Jamie Markley (19:11):
Yes, okay, this is where things start changing.
Yay, thank you, jesus.
So 2015, I go into jail.
I'm not even sure what chargesare out there, nor do I care.
Nancy Bruscher (19:27):
Sorry, how old are you at this point?
Oh boy, let's see, you were 24in 2004, so 35?
, 35, there you go, yes, yes,hey, good job, Yay math.
Jamie Markley (19:38):
So, yes, at 35 years old, at this point, I
don't really have a relationshipwith the kids.
I've been there, been gone,been there, been gone.
My family's just like this isjust what you do.
Anything, any promises I haveor feelings are just.
They're not valid at this point.
They've heard it all as far asfamily goes, just like tough
(20:01):
love.
As far as I go, I just don'tsee a way out of this.
I just think that this is justmy lot in life.
This is what I know, 2015,.
I go into jail, pretty broken,pretty lost, thinking I'm gonna
serve 27 years.
So the public defender comes inand says you have 48 hours to
sign this plea agreement, serve27 years.
So the public defender comes inand says you have 48 hours to
(20:23):
sign this plea agreement for 27years, or we go to trial,
meaning who knows what happens,right?
So I get back to my jail celland I tell them walk me down.
I'm trying to wrap my headaround.
Okay, 27 years, it's possible Idie in prison at this point.
Nancy Bruscher (20:49):
Right, that's about I mean roughly you'd be,
about 65.
Jamie Markley (20:51):
Who knows right.
Nancy Bruscher (20:52):
Who knows?
Jamie Markley (20:53):
what health issues you come up against or,
at that point, the majority ofyour life has been spent inside,
which I've become quiteaccustomed to and learned how to
navigate inside and becomesuccessful inside, if that makes
sense.
So I'm able to get better jobsand I know I know the population
(21:16):
now, like they know who I amand is it in a way, easier to
navigate?
Nancy Bruscher (21:22):
That might be a dumb question.
Jamie Markley (21:24):
It is so you're used to the chaos in addiction.
Everything in your life ischaos, right?
So that becomes an addiction initself.
The chaos and going insidewhere everything's just chaotic,
you never know what's happening, that's a familiar state and so
, yeah, it becomes really simpleto navigate.
(21:45):
Sure.
Nancy Bruscher (21:47):
Yeah, absolutely , that's really interesting.
Jamie Markley (21:50):
Yeah, yeah, and you don't.
You know, you just think thatthis is, the laws are ridiculous
, or it's you against lawenforcement, and so this is the
mentality you go in there with.
And that's the mentality you goin there with, and that's the
mentality that's in there, youknow, like us against them, when
in fact the reality is no, it'syou against yourself.
Nancy Bruscher (22:13):
Right, that's profound yeah.
Jamie Markley (22:15):
Yeah, so 2015,.
I locked myself down in thislittle tiny cell and I'm
thinking now, what?
How did I get here?
What is happening?
What does this look like?
Can I do 27 years?
And if I can't, what's thealternative?
Right, so slowly, my parentsstart coming for visits as I'm
(22:37):
waiting for the court system toprocess me, sentence me, and I'm
like, oh, my parents.
But I'm seeing them throughthis plexiglass and I'm like,
wow, they're getting older.
Oh, my gosh, they have healthissues.
What am I doing?
So this weight of the guilt ofeverything, just just everything
(22:58):
, is really heavy and I'm like,wow, how do you even begin to
process something like that?
So I'm laying in my jail cell,which I didn't leave, often kind
of in a depression and just areal dark place.
My name gets called.
I'm like my parents alreadycame for my visit this week.
So I get up and I go and I sitdown and look once again and
(23:22):
here's my oldest daughter, who Ihadn't seen in years at this
point and all this stuff.
I'd been numb for so long.
Then I looked at her and I just, you know, here, they all come
flooding out and she visits totell me that she's going active
(23:42):
duty military and she's leavingArizona.
She was told that I was in jailand she just wanted to come and
see me see how I am.
And I was so excited and justin shock.
Before she left she said Mom,if you start praying and reading
(24:04):
the Bible, I'll come back tosee you.
I said, of course I will RightAnything to see my kid, sure.
So now I'm seeing my parentsare coming, my child is coming.
Is there a light at the end ofthis tunnel?
Right.
So now I have a glimmer of whatI think is hope.
So I get back to my cell andI'm excited.
(24:26):
I'm on this adrenaline rush ofoh my daughter loves me still.
And then I think, oh my gosh, Ijust made her a promise, I can't
lie.
So there in that jail cell Ihit my knees doing the ugly, cry
, crying and praying to a God Idon't know, I know nothing about
(24:51):
, I have no idea what it means.
And I start to read this big,thick Bible and I have no idea
what the context is.
Here, About a month later,she's visiting.
My parents are coming.
Nancy Bruscher (25:05):
So she did come back to visit.
She did.
Was she on active duty?
Did she get?
Jamie Markley (25:10):
I think she came back or we were doing phone
calls, okay, okay.
Don't quote me.
Some things are still cloudy,that's fine.
No, we continued through phones, letters, that type of thing,
to have contact.
Yeah, my parents were coming.
I had one friend that wascoming consistently, which these
(25:30):
are things I never had in anyprevious sentence.
I just kind of flew through it,solo Very limited
communications, which was fine.
Sometimes it's easier to dothat.
Then church is coming, right,they're coming in and they're
doing services.
I'm like, well, maybe if I goI'll get a better understanding
of this.
There's got to be something toit.
(25:50):
So you are reading the Bible.
Nancy Bruscher (25:52):
I am.
I don't know what it means.
Yeah.
Jamie Markley (25:55):
I don't have the context, the story.
There's definitely not a hugefollowing in there at this point
.
Like who do I go and ask?
Yeah, sure.
I start going to church that'scoming in and doing services.
About a month later I getanother visit from the attorney
and he says listen, I have oneplea, it's a nine-year sentence.
(26:16):
It was three charges 2.5stacked on top of 2.5 stacked on
top of 4.5, to total nine years.
I said where do I sign?
Let's do this, Get me out ofhere, let's start the sentence.
And we did so.
27 years to nine years Ithought was fabulous.
Nancy Bruscher (26:42):
Yeah.
Is there a reason?
Or do you think that's just oneof God's little miracles, or
you?
Jamie Markley (26:46):
know I can tell you after the first night that I
prayed.
I had voluntarily locked myselfdown.
I just wanted to be segregated.
I didn't want to deal withanyone.
I couldn't wrap my head aroundthat.
27 years I thought I was facing.
And the next morning I decidedyou know what?
I'm going to get out of my bedtoday and I'm just going to have
(27:10):
hope.
I'm just going to try.
If it's 27 years, that's fine.
Maybe they'll learn from mymistakes.
My kids will you know.
Maybe I can find someforgiveness, some kind of
direction here.
So little did I know that washim working already right.
So I walk out of the cell andI'm looking around the jail and
(27:31):
there must be, I would say, over100 women housed in that small
area.
And I'm looking around and I'mthinking I had such love for
each and every one.
It was like I could see them,their pains and their hurts, and
their moms right, and theirdaughters and their sisters.
They're somebody to somebodyand I just wanted to help, like
(27:59):
I just wanted to help.
I can't even explain it.
Then, shortly, I had that visitwith the attorney.
Well, this is what we'reactually looking at now.
So, yeah, I was excited.
There was some hope, there wassome light at the end of the
tunnel and I'm thinking thismust be the Lord.
Is this what everybody's talksabout?
(28:19):
Mm-hmm, what's happening?
And so I entered that sentencefor the first time out of all
five of them, with hope,confidence, like just love, like
I had a love.
I wasn't numb, I wasn't just,like you know.
Nancy Bruscher (28:37):
That's so interesting.
So you went to church in jailand kept reading.
What did these nine years looklike for you in jail?
I went in.
I'm sorry.
Jamie Markley (28:49):
No, that's okay, it's incarceration.
Nancy Bruscher (28:51):
Okay, I'll just throw them together, possibly, I
don't expect people to justknow Thank goodness.
Jamie Markley (28:58):
So I went in and I already know the routine.
You're gonna get placed here.
You gotta find your job.
You hope you get a goodroommate like this is just what
it is.
So they put me in the statemandated classes and I end up
getting a pretty good job.
Two years in, they review mycase again not my charges, but
my prison case file and I'm sentdown to minimum security for
(29:22):
the first time in any sentenceand I'm like which are better
jobs, more opportunities, alittle more freedom.
I'm taking these classes, I'mgoing to some support groups,
I'm still attending church.
The Bible's making sense, I'mbuilding a relationship with him
, diving into self and justreally looking at some things,
(29:43):
and some generational thingscome up and starting to heal,
which is painful.
Right, get this good job andthe next five years.
Nancy Bruscher (29:51):
What is a job that you get?
What's a good job?
Jamie Markley (29:53):
So the first one I got is a printing factory.
So they run printing pressesand we print oh my gosh, we
print stuff for some of thestate facilities, county
facilities, the log books, youname it.
Oh, okay, we print businesscards, so that was something
that was really neat.
(30:15):
Okay, it seemed like every jobthat I had gotten in there I
would end up being a lead.
I would just catch on reallyquick, which helps to build your
confidence skill sets,knowledge, friends, community
and then you can help others,and when you're training
somebody else, that feelingfeels good too.
Right, help.
Somebody worked at the printshop for about three years, I
(30:35):
think.
It was ended up at a garmentshop, became one of the people
that ran that as well, and whatthat was is we made all the
undergarments for all the prisonsystems.
there's the males and thefemales you know which is a
whole another factory, and I didthat for the rest of the males
and the females, which is awhole other factory, and I did
that for the rest of thesentence.
So the remainder would havebeen another three.
Nancy Bruscher (30:56):
Okay, yeah, so you get out when you're about
44?
.
Jamie Markley (31:02):
I was 41.
Nancy Bruscher (31:05):
Oh sorry, no, that's okay 41.
Jamie Markley (31:08):
41.
And I'm kind of guesstimatingtoo, so we'll just roll with
this.
Okay's okay.
41.
, 41.
And I'm kind of guesstimatingtoo, so we'll just roll with
this, okay, great 41 soundsgreat, so you finally get out.
I do Now.
I've built relationships tooright.
Nancy Bruscher (31:21):
Inside and out.
Yes, okay, and what year isthis?
Jamie Markley (31:25):
So this is 2022.
Nancy Bruscher (31:28):
Okay so not very long ago.
No.
What has life been like, do yousay on the outside?
Is that?
Jamie Markley (31:37):
Oh boy, so 2022, given that I had actually done
some work on myself.
I've built a community, gainedsome knowledge, some skills.
I didn't go back to the sameplace with the same people.
Yay, I went to a differentplace and started on my own and
had actually saved some moneyfor the release, started working
(31:59):
on my credit and my fines whileI was still inside.
Now I'm gaining these lifeskills right that I've been
trying to learn for so long onmy own.
So I'm released and I go to adifferent place and I get a
really nice job in a smalllittle ranch town and doing
great.
(32:19):
My parents are about two hoursaway at this point.
Both of my dad's been fightingcancer for about seven years.
By this time.
My mom's got COPD On my.
I'm driving that two hours tosee them to do their grocery
shopping or pick up their medsthose types of things.
I'm home for about four monthsand my mom calls and she says
(32:43):
hey, we need you home now.
Okay, she said it's time.
So while I was gone, we had hadthe conversation.
I have two brothers.
I'm the only girl.
I'm going to be their caretaker.
You know, it's just where we'reall comfortable with that
decision and of course I agreedtheir health had declined quite
a bit since I had gotten home,and so that night I packed up
(33:05):
what little belongings I hadinto my car and I moved back to
that same little town, to thesame little house.
Within two months my parentswere both home on hospice, so I
took care of both of them forabout eight months.
Dad passed May of 23, mompassed July of 23.
Nancy Bruscher (33:28):
Oh wow, Were you able to stay sober during all
this?
No.
Jamie Markley (33:33):
I had started drinking, okay, actually.
Nancy Bruscher (33:36):
I was going to say now you're back to that spot
.
Yes, and this is a lot ofemotions, right?
Jamie Markley (33:43):
Sure, yeah, and honor, very fulfilling, very
healing.
I got to help them.
They got their final wishescarried out as well, as I still
don't know how to use tap to payright or Apple Pay, or you know
.
So I'm still navigating allthese things and I remember
(34:04):
taking my mom her meds one nightand she says are you drinking
every night?
And it dawned on me this hadbeen going on for about two
weeks and I thought to myself ohmy gosh, I am.
So that stopped real quick.
I thought, oh no, we're notdoing this.
Nancy Bruscher (34:21):
Okay, so you had started drinking.
You hadn't gotten to the drugs,though.
Oh, no, no, no.
Okay, but just like kind ofdrinking, and then, oh man, this
could become a.
Yeah, I didn't even realize itwas daily at that point.
Jamie Markley (34:33):
Yeah, Turning into a nurse and a caretaker
pretty much overnight.
I was kind of on autopilot andset a lot of the emotional aside
.
Emotions at that point arestill kind of hard to identify
and process because you know Ihad been numb for so many years.
And so on the inside, yes, yes,I start to feel things, and
things aren't as cloudy, butthey're still hard to identify.
(34:54):
Yeah, sure, so.
So they pass September.
So my older brother's,incarcerated at that point as
well, had been gone for aboutseven, eight years I think, and
his release was coming upSeptember 1st, and so that's
another reality.
He had just lost our mom too,but he was gone.
So I picked him up.
(35:15):
I ended up leaving that townand moving back to the one I was
at when I was released inMuscat, arizona, which is where
my brother was as well.
We kind of got to navigate someof that together.
Nancy Bruscher (35:26):
And that was a good thing.
Jamie Markley (35:28):
Oh my gosh so helpful.
Nancy Bruscher (35:29):
Okay.
Jamie Markley (35:30):
Yeah, I love my brother.
Nancy Bruscher (35:31):
Yeah, well, one thing that you said before we
started I thought this wasreally profound is you talked
about how the military kind oflike breaks you down to build
you back up to what they want.
And maybe people would say theydon't agree, but I think that's
somewhat of what people thinkof when they think of the
(35:52):
military, and you said thatthat's kind of the way that the,
the prison system was, is they?
They tear you down but thenthey don't really help you get
another identity.
Is that what you said, or couldyou?
Jamie Markley (36:08):
yeah, I can elaborate on that.
So I think so for the militarythey do, right.
They strip you down, they putyou in the same clothing, you go
through the same regiment, butthey're building soldiers and
you're picking up team skills,life skills, and you have a
purpose, like they have an endgoal for you.
In the prison system, you'restripped of all your
(36:33):
individualism, right.
You don't even have a firstname anymore.
You're now just your prisonnumber or your last name.
That's it.
Oh wow, I did not know that.
And your outfit looks like heroutfit and her outfit and her
outfit, right, Uh-huh.
Okay, so you're.
It's kind of I don't know if Iwant to use the word warehousing
(36:53):
, but kind of.
Nancy Bruscher (36:54):
Okay.
Jamie Markley (36:55):
You know, everybody's kind of on the same
scale, same level.
You're all inmates, right, andyes, they offer programs, but
truly it's on you to make thosechanges.
There's some that are mandatory, yes, as they should be, but
like anything else, you get outof what you put into and given a
(37:18):
lot of them are ran by otherinmates.
Who's leading who?
Yeah, yeah.
So the rehabilitation, theself-awareness, the community,
the socializing, that's up toyou to learn, for you to correct
, and not everybody wants to dothat, not everybody wants to
accept their responsibility ofthe choices they made and how it
(37:40):
affected people and the rippleeffects of and that's not even
the hardest part.
The hardest part is having anew identity in Christ, right.
How do you take that outsidewith you?
Having a new identity in Christ, right, how do you take that
outside with you?
How do you walk that out?
Nancy Bruscher (37:55):
We were talking also about you become
institutionalized.
I think that's a word that'sused, isn't it?
It is Okay, yeah, and can youexplain what it means, maybe
specifically for you?
Jamie Markley (38:09):
Oh my gosh.
Institutionalized, yes, so forme, I can tell you a comical one
real quick, Okay, so in thereyou are.
A lot of these are common areasyou share with hundreds of
other people, so you can imaginethe germs and everything else
that's entailed with that.
So you wear your what we callshower shoes into the shower so
(38:30):
that your bare feet aren'ttouching water.
Whoever did whatever, I wenthome and got in the shower and
had mine on, and my mom wasquite offended.
I cleaned that tub and I'm like,oh my goodness, I can't believe
I did that.
Sure.
Yeah, so institutionalized youbecome, you're routine-based.
You get up at the same time,you eat at the same time, you
(38:51):
get up at the same time, you eatat the same time, you work at
the same time, you're closingyour door at the same time, your
phone calls are at the sametime, you're waiting in line,
you're asking permissions.
It's very regimented.
You're very routine based andwhat happens is it gets harder
to deal with change choices.
I I remember coming home, oneof the first stops I made.
(39:14):
Obviously, when you come home,you need those essentials, right
, your hygiene, these everydaythings.
And I went into Walmart andthere's at least a hundred
different shampoos and I justwas so overwhelmed in having to
make a choice, like I don't knowhow to.
How do you choose?
Do I want you know?
(39:34):
Right, it's sensory overloadgetting in a moving vehicle, the
motion sickness, the differentsmells.
Nancy Bruscher (39:42):
What is the change that stopped the
recidivism, that stopped thejust going back to the drugs?
Was it God and community?
Can you share what you thinkthat was?
Jamie Markley (39:59):
I think the integral part obviously was, of
course, it was God, absolutely.
Did I know at the time?
No, I didn't know what thatlooked like Salvation,
redemption, restoration I didn'teven know what these meant, let
alone to walk out.
It was definitely him andforgiveness.
(40:20):
So a lot of guilt.
I carried a lot of guilt andbeing able to help my parents
was very fulfilling and a lot offorgiveness came with that,
with my family.
And, honestly, the other partwas it only took one person to
believe in me, and that was mydaughter.
One person to say I believe inyou.
(40:41):
So, coming home to a communityand I'm not denying that my
charges or my actions at thispoint I've accepted
responsibility for them.
I've really recognized a lot ofthings.
I'm aware of those things and Ican spot them when they're
(41:02):
coming the same behaviors or thesame feeling I get when I was
in a certain situation, and so Ican make other choices.
I've been equipped and giventools to do so yeah, that's good
.
Nancy Bruscher (41:15):
I love that.
One person believed that's ittook one person.
Jamie Markley (41:19):
That was it.
Wow, yeah, well, two.
Nancy Bruscher (41:23):
He's amazing, right yeah yeah, to say that he
can redeem, and then to actuallysee that you have to want it.
Jamie Markley (41:33):
I know there's a lot of misgivings.
Forgiveness, redemption thattype of thing is like an
overnight and it's miraculousand everything's healed and you
feel better because you're achild of God.
And that's not the reality.
After being away from certainrelationships and society right.
After being away from certainrelationships and society right
for a little less than 20 years,there's a lot of bridging those
(41:56):
gaps.
The main thing is getting usedto asking for help.
You can't do it by yourself.
Nancy Bruscher (42:05):
Community's huge .
This is good.
This is so good.
I feel like I'm talking toomuch.
No, you're not.
If you could kind of sharewhere you are, we're in Colorado
, obviously.
If anyone doesn't know, we'rein Colorado, so we're not in
Arizona, so you've switchedplaces.
Yeah, and could you just kindof briefly tell us where you are
as far as maybe your walk withGod, your kids, sure A little
(42:28):
bit about your life right now,2024.
Jamie Markley (42:31):
At this point last year, I was, like I said,
living in Prescott.
My brother lived with me and wewere getting ready to go our
separate ways, and my daughterand I had been talking while I
was gone.
You know, it would be great tolive in the same state because
we'd been rebuilding thisrelationship for years.
And my oldest son too, right,he's in Colorado.
(42:54):
She's in Colorado, mygranddaughter's in Colorado, and
I'm thinking, well, my parentsare gone, what's to hold me here
?
Right?
So I relocated to Colorado fromArizona in May of 24.
So beautiful to be with my kidsfor the first time in how long,
right?
So?
And my granddaughter, wow, whata blessing that is.
(43:15):
So I moved here and I guess Ihad kind of put myself in a
little box of.
This is the manual labor jobsthat I'm gonna apply for,
because that's what I've alwaysdone.
These are the things I'velearned.
Sure, and door after door afterdoor was shut, and I thought,
(43:36):
well, I was starting to getdiscouraged, but I knew where to
turn to right.
Nancy Bruscher (43:42):
Not to the drugs this time.
Jamie Markley (43:44):
No, no, no, absolutely not Just in prayer.
My daughter says, Mom, thischurch you've been attending,
they have a position open.
I said in my mind.
I'm thinking, yeah right, who'sgoing to take a felon on, right
, right?
I thought, oh heck, let's justtry it.
So I muddled through thistechnology aspect of applying
(44:09):
for positions, which is alsodifficult, and did so and kind
of forgot about it and keptapplying.
Next thing, you know, I'm goingthrough interviews and got the
position and so I actually amwalking out ministry with a huge
community in a church setting.
Nancy Bruscher (44:31):
So, yeah.
I love it and you've rebuiltrelationships with two of your
kids, yeah, actually all five.
Jamie Markley (44:39):
Oh, I other two all five oh, I'm sorry, five I'm
sorry, yeah, more so.
I communicate with all five,everybody's at a different um
space of bonding forgivenessrelationship, but everybody's
willing.
So November of this I actuallywe all flew to Texas where my
(45:01):
second daughter's at, and it wasthe first time I was in the
same room with all five kidssince 2012.
Wow, interesting.
And they're all grown now Likeah, wow, yeah.
Nancy Bruscher (45:14):
That's even so redemptive in itself.
Jamie Markley (45:18):
It was that moment I had been wanting for
gosh almost 20 years, but to bepresent in it, you know.
Not to be there and say, yeah,I spent the week with them or I
went to a soccer game.
No, I was there and I waspresent and able to be there and
(45:38):
be present and accept whateverwas coming, whether it was anger
or understanding or questions,or regardless.
Yeah, and just opening thatdoor to where do you guys want
to go from here?
And it's your choice.
Nancy Bruscher (45:57):
And God, because of your story, has given you a
heart for those that areincarcerated is that right?
Jamie Markley (46:06):
yeah, absolutely so.
It is a mission field right ofthe broken and the forgotten,
often forgotten, and it's hugebecause we think, well, our
outreach is only the church or amission field overseas.
No, they're right here.
It can be your neighbor, it canbe a friend, it can be somebody
in the grocery store.
(46:26):
We just never know what peopleare going through and that
isolated feeling of beingincarcerated.
And when you come home you'restill somewhat isolated in your
mind because you feel likeyou're different.
You feel like you're wearing aneon shirt that says recently
incarcerated.
I don't know, sure.
And so how do you, how do youreintegrate?
(46:47):
What does that look like andwhat kind of help do you ask for
?
So I think those are spaces weneed to step into more.
Nancy Bruscher (46:54):
Yeah Well, I'm excited to see where God brings
you in that.
Jamie Markley (46:58):
Yeah, I am too, actually.
Yeah, colorado is verysupportive in this whole field.
We've done a lot of researchand they're amazing in the state
of Colorado to do these things.
There are so many programs outthere, so many.
Nancy Bruscher (47:14):
Yeah Well, good, I'll be excited to see where
God leads you in that.
Yeah, thanks, nancy, Iappreciate it Well, as we wrap
up, I'm sure people are going tohave more questions, but we're
going to have to wrap up fortoday.
What is your favorite Bibleverse or story?
Jamie Markley (47:30):
2 Corinthians 5.17.
Therefore, if anybody is inChrist, he is a new creation.
The old has passed away.
Nancy Bruscher (47:40):
Behold the new has has come.
Jamie Markley (47:40):
That's a good one yeah, it's true, it's really
good, it's real.
So, yeah, he's the answer, forsure, and because of grace, all
we have to do is ask right,that's amazing, yeah what are
you grateful for oh?
my goodness, so many thingsForgiveness and his, him walking
(48:03):
alongside me, the strength toeven walk through restoration.
I am so grateful for mydaughter saying I believe in you
, and I can't even tell you thehundreds of people that have
supported me in the last threeyears since I've been home.
I am just grateful for theopportunity, regardless what
(48:24):
those opportunities are, justthe opportunity.
Nancy Bruscher (48:29):
What kindness have you seen?
Or what kindness have you shown?
In the last week.
Jamie Markley (48:33):
Oh my gosh, the kindness I've shown.
Well, I'll tell you, it seemsas if people can just identify
if your stories are similar.
So I'm going to say that it's atwo-way street on the kindness
They've listened, connected, andthen I was able to tell them
(48:54):
how I got where I'm at now, fromwhere they are now, which is
where I was at three years ago.
So the kindness is theconnection, the honesty, and I
can't believe I'm able tominister to other people.
What a blessing.
Yeah, that's huge.
I think that's just kindnessright there.
(49:14):
Acceptance, acceptance, youknow, yeah.
Nancy Bruscher (49:20):
Well, I love you sharing your story and being
not ashamed to share it.
So thank you for just beinghonest and sharing your story.
And for those people who arelistening, who don't have any
idea what jail or prison lookslike, I'm so thankful.
But I hope that they might seesomething as far as how change
(49:43):
can actually happen, and I thinkall of us can need or want
change somehow in our life.
And then again, I just keep onsaying how the Bible is so real,
about how it says you're a newcreation, how it says all of
these things you're like, buthow, I mean, we kind of took
quite a bit of time goingthrough all of your times in
(50:04):
jail or prison, and I think thatthat was actually good, because
for me, even I started to be,uh, I don't think there's a way
out, right and I, and so if, ifyou are kind of going through
that with us of, ok, this is alot.
I hope that it was, becauseOtherwise we don't get to see
(50:27):
the other side.
If you just kind of like throwout numbers real quick, actually
what had to change and like how, how God and one person walking
with you was what was it?
What you needed, it wasn't, youknow.
(50:47):
You tried all these otherthings and it and it didn't work
.
So I'm just amazed at how theBible is true and through your
story we get to see anotheraspect of how it is.
Jamie Markley (50:59):
Yes, yes, he is the healer.
This is the truth.
Nancy Bruscher (51:04):
Well.
Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for listening onOrdinary People, extraordinary
Things.
Your story is His glory.
What an amazing story of howGod continues to change lives.
As promised, if you have oldhome videos that need to be
transferred to digital, headover to
generations2generationscom.
(51:25):
Under the home video tab you'llsee a pop-up that says digitize
your home videos, preserve yourmemories by 10 video transfers.
Get the 11th on us.
That's right.
When you transfer 10 homevideos, the 11th is free.
It's a great way to relive andpreserve your favorite memories
(51:45):
for years to come.
I'll see you in two weeks for abrand new episode with Jennifer
Dukes Lee.
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