Dr. Titus Kennedy, a biblical archaeologist specializing in the Eastern Mediterranean, reveals how archaeological discoveries provide tangible evidence of the Bible's historical accuracy. His journey from childhood fascination with Troy to uncovering Canaanite altars demonstrates how archaeology transforms abstract biblical narratives into concrete historical realities.
• The discovery of a 9th century BC "House of David" inscription dramatically changed scholarly views on David's existence
• Archaeologists have found evidence for 132 people mentioned in the Bible
• Kennedy's favorite biblical figure is Daniel, whose story offers both spiritual guidance and archaeological richness
• Future archaeological possibilities include discoveries related to Noah's Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah, and early biblical manuscripts
Find Dr. Kennedy's work in his books "Unearthing the Bible," "Excavating the Evidence for Jesus," and his forthcoming book documenting archaeological evidence for 132 biblical figures.
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Nancy Bruscher (00:02):
As summer fades away, we are starting a new
season of Ordinary PeopleExtraordinary Things.
It's season eight.
I'm Nancy Ruscher, I'm yourhost and we are kicking off
today with Dr Titus Kennedy.
He has an amazing story.
He's a biblical archaeologistand he is going to share how we
know that the Bible is realthrough things that they have
(00:24):
found.
My kids are a huge fan of DrTitus Kennedy and we're so
excited to have him on the show.
They even got to ask him aquestion.
If summer has been busy likeit's been in our family.
I hope that you catch up on allthe previous seven seasons of
Ordinary People ExtraordinaryThings and stay tuned to
upcoming podcasts and socialmedia, as I'm going to be
(00:48):
launching my first book.
It's called the Heirloom LegacyBook, a guided kitzig to share
the meaning and future of familytreasures.
Let's get started on thispodcast as we learn about the
treasures that have been foundthat proved that the Bible is
real, about the treasures thathave been found that proved that
the Bible is real.
Welcome to Ordinary PeopleExtraordinary Things.
(01:13):
I'm so excited to have Dr TitusKennedy on the show today, and
my kids are here with me andthey've never been on a podcast,
but they are so excited to talkwith Dr Titus Kennedy about
what he does.
We've watched so many of hisshows on Right Now Media and
it's just an honor to have youon.
Dr. Titus Kennedy (01:28):
Oh, thank you very much, Nancy.
It's great to be here.
Nancy Bruscher (01:31):
So what you do is I kind of saw this on the
website was you're a fieldarchaeologist and you are
specific in ancient East or theMediterranean, the like I would
just call the biblical area?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (01:47):
Is that?
Nancy Bruscher (01:48):
is that fair to say?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (01:51):
Yeah, yeah, that's right, I specialize in
biblical archaeology and so thatencompasses quite a few
countries today and what we callthe Middle East or the Eastern
Mediterranean region, also inplaces like Italy and Greece.
Of course, in the New Testament, in the Old Testament, we've
(02:12):
got all these places Egypt orIraq and Iran, and, of course,
israel and Lebanon, syria,jordan so quite a few places,
and I've done projects in a fewof those countries and research
and many more, and hope tocontinue doing that.
Nancy Bruscher (02:32):
It sounds so fascinating.
What actually sparked yourinterest in archaeology?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (02:38):
I always was interested in history, even in
elementary school.
I really liked that.
And yet I didn't really knowhow we got history.
I didn't know anything aboutarchaeology and so I was just
reading.
And then one day we went on afield trip in class during I
(03:04):
think it was a second grade, andwe went to this historic site.
It was a fort from the 1800sand I was pretty impressed that
it was still standing and Ithought, oh, wow, there really
are old buildings from I call itancient times.
(03:27):
Back then it seemed moreancient than today and I became
fascinated by that.
Soon after the next year I wason vacation with my family and
we got to see an actualarchaeological site that they
had also done some rebuildingand conservation of an ancient
(03:49):
Hawaiian village, and so thatwas really my first
archaeological site that I saw.
And following that, one of myteachers gave me a book to read
on the excavation of Troy byHeinrich Schliemann, and Troy
was that city, the main citywhere the battle happens in
(04:11):
Homer's Iliad, and I had readthe Iliad recently before this,
and so I was familiar with thestory and that opened up the
world of archaeology to me thatthere were people who would go
out and search for these sites,rediscover them, and then they
would actually dig them up andfind all this new information,
(04:34):
new historical information.
For us still didn't really knowthe association between
archaeology and the Bible yet,but a few years later I was
given some books on biblicalarchaeology and I started
reading those and found thatthere were hundreds and hundreds
(04:56):
of discoveries that connectarchaeology to the Bible,
sometimes showing the truth orverifying the historical
accuracy of the text, and othertimes just helping us understand
this ancient faraway world andlands.
Nancy Bruscher (05:15):
Were you a Christian growing up?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (05:18):
Yes, yes, I was.
I grew up in a Christian familygoing to church.
My father had gone to seminary.
In fact, that's how I got a lotof books on biblical
archaeology initially is that heactually had them in his
library and started giving themto me to read because of my
(05:41):
interest in archaeology andhistory, and so that was a big
help for me, because I didn'treally have any connections at
that time to archaeologists, andso he got me started on reading
about the topic.
Nancy Bruscher (05:58):
And are there a lot of misconceptions about your
job.
Do a lot of people still say,oh, are you like Indiana Jones?
Or do people not say somethinglike that?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (06:09):
Yeah, they do , not everybody, but a lot, some
jokingly and some serious.
And then quite often peoplemistake archaeology for
paleontology and althoughthey're closely related and the
processes are very similar, I'mnot usually digging up dinosaur
(06:33):
remains or fossils and so peoplehear archaeologists and some of
them just immediately jump tothings like digging up a T-Rex
or a Stegosaurus or somethinglike that.
I have done excavations ofwoolly mammoths, but no romantic
(06:55):
dinosaur digs.
Finding a Tyrannosaurus Rex oranything like that.
It would be interesting, butit's just a slightly different
field.
Nancy Bruscher (07:04):
Sure, what does your day mostly look like?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (07:08):
It depends on what aspect of my job that is,
but if we're talking about outin the field doing an excavation
, then your typical day is towake up early and have some
coffee or maybe a little bit ofbreakfast to get you some energy
for the day, and then going tothe site and getting everybody
(07:31):
rounded up and started on theirjobs, because we're usually
excavating multiple squares andso we've got to give people the
plan for the day and make surethat we've got all the tools
necessary and get going andstart recording and do
photography early in the morningbecause we track our progress.
(07:54):
So we'll usually take photos atleast in the morning and at the
end of the day, oftenthroughout the day, depending on
what we're finding.
So we start digging.
It depends on the particularsite and also where we are on
the site, if we're using largertools like picks and shovels, or
(08:17):
if we're using small tools liketrowels and brushes.
Whenever we get to an actualarchaeological layer with
pottery and artifacts andbuilding ruins, we're going to
be using the smaller tools.
But sometimes you just have todig through a lot of dirt you
know, maybe agricultural layersbefore you can get to that.
So we'll do that for a fewhours and then we'll take a
(08:41):
break, have some food, maybesome more coffee or water at
least, and then get back to itfor a few more hours and then
we'll clean up at the end of theday and we will go back to
where we're staying.
Sometimes depends on the projectwe might do processing
(09:04):
immediately after we finishexcavating for the day.
So we'll look at all the pottery, we'll sort it out a bit, maybe
record what periods it's from,and other times we will actually
collect that and we'll waittill the end of the excavation
season and then we'll do all ofthat at once over a couple of
(09:25):
weeks or so.
And then in the evenings, youknow usually some free time for
a lot of the dig participants.
If you're a director or staffmember, you probably got more
paperwork to do, some recordingor planning.
You may have teaching duties,because sometimes we've got
(09:58):
graduate students on the dig andwe might be running a class for
them.
Or we might be going to visitsites after the dig each day, or
at least on the weekends aspart of a class, or at least on
(10:28):
the weekends as part of a class.
So yeah, it could be a lot ofthings going on lectures site
week, just because we had areally short window and we had
to pack it in.
But um, others, others do afive day a week schedule now?
Nancy Bruscher (10:35):
is it hard to get into digs?
Are the countries hard to go to?
I mean, I assume that some ofthese places that would have a
lot of archaeology things,there's already a modern city on
top of it.
Dr. Titus Kennedy (10:48):
Yeah, in some cases.
So if you're talking aboutplaces like Jerusalem or Amman
or Athens or Rome, yes, thereare lots of modern buildings and
less than modern.
You know, old, old to ancient,built over what you might be
interested in excavating.
(11:09):
But a lot of places are kind ofout in the middle of nowhere At
this point.
You know what?
What were huge cities are veryimportant cities.
In the past Sometimes they werejust in a farmer's field or
maybe there's a small villagenext to the site.
So kind of depends, Wheneverit's inside a modern city
(11:31):
there's pluses and minuses tothat because, yes, you can stay
in a hotel or apartment orsomething like that that might
be right next to the site andyou have access to a lot of
things grocery stores and othershops.
That's really convenient.
But then there's thedifficulties of you've got to
(11:56):
dig through all of these otherperiods and sometimes have
modern buildings removed priorto excavation.
Or maybe you're digging in aparking lot or something so
you've got to bring in aconstruction crew who's got to
remove that.
So it kind of depends on thesite that you're working on as
(12:21):
far as the different countries,and getting permits the site
that you're working on as far asthe different countries and
getting permits.
Getting permits is one of themost difficult aspects of doing
archaeology today.
Many countries don't reallywant to start any new
archaeological projects, or ifthey do, they don't want to do
(12:42):
any actual digging, they justwant to do some conservation,
clean up the site, put up signs,things for tourism basically
easier, easier to do and willbring in more financial benefits
for the country.
So permits, yeah, they can be.
They can be very difficult toacquire and then then you go
(13:04):
through a fairly long processwith the Department of
Antiquities for whatever countrythat you are proposing, and
you've got to, of course, haveyour budget and have at least
some fundraising in place sothat you can show them that,
yeah, we can actually do thisproject before they let you move
forward.
Nancy Bruscher (13:25):
What is your favorite spot right now to dig,
or what is the most significantthing you've found in a dig?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (13:33):
My favorite spot to dig probably changes
based on what I'm interested in,but most recently I was digging
in Jordan and we had a reallygreat team, so that was
enjoyable.
It was not in the mostconvenient location, the most
(14:03):
convenient location, so we hadto stay in a small village and
make a bit of a drive to thesite every day.
Other times it's been a lotmore convenient on that front.
So, you know, doing projects,say, in Jerusalem or in Yerevan,
the capital of Armenia, you canjust stay in an apartment near
the site and you've goteverything around you that you
need.
So that's a nice benefit.
(14:26):
As far as the really exciting orinteresting things that I've
found over the course of mycareer of my career, I'd say one
of my favorites was an altar, aCanaanite altar from we call it
the late Bronze Age, so sort ofthe time of Moses and Joshua
(14:47):
and getting into the Judgesperiod, and that was really
interesting because it's apretty large structure.
You know, not not one of thesesmall altars with horns on it
which come a little bit later.
We see those talked aboutsometimes in the old Testament,
but quite a few of those havebeen found.
This is a bigger one, you knowwe're talking like at least six
(15:13):
feet wide, eight feet wide,things like that, built out of
large stones.
And yeah, those have been foundbefore, but they're not
extremely common.
There's usually one large onelike that in a city, somewhere,
in a temple, somewhere,something like that.
So that was pretty exciting,and the possibility that it is
(15:35):
connected to a biblical sitealso made it even better.
Nancy Bruscher (15:41):
Where was that at?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (15:44):
This was at a place in the West Bank that I
would identify as the biblicalsite of Beit Aben.
It's mentioned in Joshua 7.
Nancy Bruscher (15:55):
Okay, can you tell?
You said the bronze age.
Are you able to tell because ofwhat it's made of and then also
like how many layers down, or I?
I think I've read a book theycall them tells.
Is that right?
Like a like a civilization on acivilization.
Dr. Titus Kennedy (16:14):
So tell means mound, okay, so there's.
There are these cities thatwere.
They're actually built on amound purposely.
It's not that they werebuilding on a flat place and
then it became a mound.
They they either built on anatural mound or they even
created mounds, but then, overtime, they made them larger as
(16:38):
well by having these successivecities built on top of one
another.
As far as being able to tellwhich period things come from,
primarily that has to do withthe materials that you're
digging up, especially potterypottery, but in other periods
(17:00):
you're looking at various typesof artifacts.
For example, if we're lookingin the late Bronze Age, as we
talked about, you might findsome Egyptian scarab steels
there with the name of a pharaohon it, and so that would give
you a range of dates within thetime that that pharaoh was king.
(17:23):
And then in later periods, likethe Roman period, the time of
the New Testament, people wereusing coins a lot, and so you
find a coin, and some of thesecoins had the image and name of
a ruler on it, and oftentimeseven the year of their reign,
(17:43):
and so you can see okay, well,this was issued in 28 ad, and so
this coin was in use from 28 aduntil you know, let's say this,
the ruler died in 39 orsomething like that, and then
they stopped issuing those coinsand they would strike over them
(18:07):
or issue a new coin and sothey'd go out of circulation not
too long after that.
So you get a pretty precisedate for that Pottery.
Not as much, you know.
We're looking at more like 50 or100-year period, but it's still
helpful.
There's other clues, likearchitecture changes as well,
and then you talked about thelayers.
(18:28):
So those layers, thestratigraphy that can help us,
because if we have 10 differentlayers at one of these mounds
and we know the date of layersone, two, three and four and we
get to five, okay, we know thatthat's earlier than four, but
(18:49):
maybe there's sort of aprogression as well, like it
doesn't jump 1000 years, maybeit's just 100 years or something
like that.
We keep seeing a steady years,maybe it's just a hundred years
or something like that.
We keep seeing a steadyprogression.
So there's a lot of clues wecan put together, as well as
some of the more definitiveevidence, like pottery
inscriptions, coins, scarabs, etcetera, and things like
(19:12):
radiocarbon dating as well insome periods.
Nancy Bruscher (19:16):
You said you grew up as a Christian.
How has archaeology, andspecifically studying like the
biblical archaeology, how hasthat like, encouraged your faith
or changed your faith?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (19:29):
Well, first it was pretty amazing to me that
all this evidence was still inexistence and more continued to
be discovered, and so I saw thatit wasn't just a book, that the
(19:49):
Bible wasn't just a book oftheology and spiritual guidance,
that these were real events,real places, real people, and we
had tangible evidence for that.
And when I went on my first digand I got to see a lot of other
(20:09):
sites as well and some museums,then it really made it come to
life and be more real for me.
Not that I was questioning thatit was true or anything, but it
went from being abstract tosomething tangible.
(20:30):
And so I think you can connectwith the Bible and your faith on
another level when you get toactually go see those places and
those things that the Bibletalks about and, in a way,
experience it a bit for yourself.
So that's been one of thethings that's impacted my faith,
(20:54):
things that's impacted my faith.
The other is that I think it'sreally helped in Bible study
because as you learn more aboutancient history and geography
and culture, you can visualizewhat you're reading better and
you understand some things thatmaybe we wouldn't quite get if
(21:17):
we're just working from aframework of the 21st century,
things that were a lot differentback then the way that they
built, the cultural traditionsthey had the technology, the
history, the people that livedaround there.
So all that, I think, hashelped my understanding as I
(21:42):
study through the Bible and alsohelps just with the
visualization of it.
Nancy Bruscher (21:48):
If someone is listening and they are having
some doubts, what are somebiblical archaeologies that have
been really impactful that youthink would help solidify their
faith?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (22:02):
One of my favorite examples that I often
go to is the biblical story ofDavid and the archaeological
evidence for that.
And this one is so interestingto me and, I think, a very
relevant example because it'sfairly recent discoveries and
(22:24):
the change was very radical interms of skeptical views about
David and his historicalexistence and historians outside
of Christians who believed inthe historical reliability of
(22:49):
the Bible.
Most were thinking that Davidwas not a real person, he was
not a historical figure, he wassome kind of legendary or
mythological king that had beeninvented to tell the story, to
prove a point, to sort of spreadpropaganda, as they would often
(23:10):
say, for the kingdom of Judahand their priestly system and so
forth.
And the reason that theythought that David didn't exist
just besides a bias against theBible, thought that David didn't
exist, just besides a biasagainst the Bible is that there
(23:32):
had been no archaeologicalevidence found that specifically
mentioned David or directlyconnected to events about him in
the Bible.
But then in 1993, there was anexcavation going at the ancient
city of Dan in northern Israel,north of the Sea of Galilee, and
(23:52):
they were excavating an areaoutside of the city gate, this
stone paved area, a plaza, andthey found this broken piece of
a victory monument, a stele wecall it, and it was inscribed,
(24:13):
and you know that alone is quitethe find.
You don't discover a lot ofthose types of things.
But as they read it they sawthat it was talking about kings
of Israel and Judah.
And then it mentioned theirorigin and it said of the house
of David, and this came from the9th century BC, so it wasn't
(24:35):
long after the time of David,and it was also written by the
Arameans, who were enemies ofthe Israelites.
So no one could say that thiswas propaganda, that the
Israelites were just tellingthis mythological story, and
that kind of changed thingsalmost overnight.
(24:55):
So a lot of archaeologists thenswitched their view and said,
okay, I guess David was ahistorical king.
And there were a few who triedto push back on this and made
some forgery claims or said thatit was talking about something
else.
And you know those types ofclaims were shut down pretty
(25:19):
quickly and definitively.
On the forgery front, one itwas found in a controlled
archaeological excavations.
But in the subsequent seasonthey actually found more
fragments of this broken stele.
So it was clearly an ancientstele, not a forgery meaning
(25:46):
something else.
I mean, you just read thecontext and it's totally obvious
that it's talking aboutIsraelite kings, kings of Judah
and Israel, and it has nothingto do with some other person,
kingdom name, location, anythinglike that.
So that was just a hugediscovery.
So that was just a hugediscovery, and since then there
(26:12):
have been things like findingthe palace of David in Jerusalem
and discovering other evidencefrom sites outside of Jerusalem
that show that there was thislarge, organized kingdom during
the time of David, that hewasn't just like a tribal leader
in Jerusalem, and that's it, sobolstering the historical
reliability of the biblicalnarrative about David.
(26:35):
So what does this teach us?
Besides that there isarchaeological evidence for the
reliability of Scripture, well,it also shows us that things
continue to be discovered.
There's a lot out there, andeven when people are skeptical
of the Bible or saying, look,you know, there's no evidence
(26:58):
for this person or this eventthat may change at any time,
event that may change at anytime, basically every year
there's some kind of moderatelyto very significant discovery
made that connects to the Biblein archaeology, and so I would
say there's a lot of exampleslike this and things continue to
(27:22):
be found.
So, even though they're alwaysgoing to be skeptics.
Not only is there so muchevidence now, but there will be
even more in the future, as thiswork progresses.
Nancy Bruscher (27:35):
What is something that you'd like to see
discovered?
What is the big thing you wouldlike to see that would help
people point to the Bible?
I think again that some, a lotof people would think of are
people still looking for the Arkof the Covenant?
That seems like a big one thatpeople have tried to find
forever.
But are there other things thatyou're thinking?
(27:57):
Gosh, this would be really neatand I think we could find it
here it here.
Dr. Titus Kennedy (28:11):
Yeah, there, there are many, many different
things.
So, uh, at this point you couldtalk about some of the the more
famous things like, uh, youmentioned the ark of the
covenant.
I mean, I think that would beobviously a huge discovery.
I don't know whether or notthat is something that will ever
be found, but, yeah, that Ithink would get a lot of
people's attention.
There's also quite often talkabout Noah's Ark.
(28:35):
You know, if there's anyremains of that, some of that's
found, although that I don'tthink would be as clear as
something like the ark of thecovenant, because people might
just say, look, it's some, someold wood or it's just some ship.
Uh, you've got other otherthings like, well, some that may
(28:56):
have been discovered but aren'tso clear, but we could at least
say discoveries that clarifythings like sodom and gorrah or,
uh, zohar or, um, some of the,the evidence for the Exodus, you
know, especially Egyptianevidence, something that's
that's really obvious and clear.
(29:19):
We have a lot of circumstantialevidence for for many events in
the Bible, but there are somewhere you would say, okay, if we
found something that was veryclear and definitive, that would
make a big impact.
And then, of course, you mightlook at the New Testament.
There's some interestingpotential there as well.
(29:40):
For example, the site ofColossae has still not been
excavated.
So if that eventually happens,then I think there will be some
really great discoveries there,potentially some things
connected with Paul and theearly church.
So that would be reallyexciting when we're talking
(30:01):
about New Testament archaeology.
So you know, there's lots ofdifferent things and it depends
on people's interests, sometimesthe notoriety of things, but
some of the lesser knowndiscoveries can also be really
significant historically.
Nancy Bruscher (30:22):
Are you thinking of one in particular?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (30:29):
historically.
Are you thinking of one inparticular?
Well, one that I don't thinkpeople maybe talk about as much,
as there is a copy of the lawin the time of Joshua, and that
would be extremely significantif that or a fragment of that
was discovered.
I mean, it would put push thedate of the mosaic law and
(30:49):
scripture back quite a bit in uhin the minds of many people who
are more on a skeptical orliberal viewpoint, and it would
also have some reallyinteresting information about
ancient language and script aswell.
(31:11):
We don't know exactly what allof that looked like at the time
of Joshua, for example, sothat's something as well, I
think, think, be veryinteresting.
Um, we could talk about early,earlier periods.
You know genesis uh, the towerof babel, for example.
(31:32):
So babylon uh has not beenexcavated to the early levels
because the euphrates rivershifted and the earlier the
lower section of that city isunderwater, and so it would be
quite a task to try to do that,but there's a lot of potential
(31:54):
there.
We don't have that muchinformation about the earlier
sort of pre-Abraham material inthe Bible, and so there's
potential for some greatdiscoveries there as well.
Nancy Bruscher (32:10):
If someone wants to learn more about archaeology
or we've referenced your RightNow Media or other places that
you're on can you share wherethey might get started?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (32:22):
Sure might get started.
Sure, I've got a few books outright now and I actually have
one that I just finished thatwill be published soon.
So my start with that, theUnearthing.
The Bible is an easy to read,good one.
To start out, I think if you'rejust looking to see if a
(32:47):
biblical archaeology issomething that you're interested
in and you don't want to committo something that's too long or
detailed.
But my book on the archaeologyof jesus excavating the evidence
of Jesus that's there forpeople who are interested in a
more detailed telling of theGospels alongside archaeology,
(33:12):
the discoveries that connect allthe historical material there.
And then I wrote a book as wellon about 70 sites I cover that
are mentioned in all differentbiblical lands.
So this might be more of peoplewho are interested in visiting
(33:35):
some of these biblical sites,maybe in person, maybe virtually
, but you can learn about thedifferent cities of the Bible
and what's been found thereconnecting to the biblical
narrative.
And then the newest book that Ijust finished is on all the
(33:55):
people who are named in theBible for which there is
archaeological evidence orattestation.
Is archaeological evidence orattestation.
To me it's pretty astonishinghow many people in the Bible.
We know them througharchaeology as well.
Both the Old and the NewTestament and again I think this
(34:16):
speaks to this idea of theBible is a book about real
people, real places and realevents.
It's not just fairy tales orsome spiritual advice.
Nancy Bruscher (34:32):
Do you know how many offhand are mentioned in
the Bible that you have?
Archeology, archeology yes.
Dr. Titus Kennedy (34:39):
So I I address 132 people in the book.
Some of them it's very short,others there's so much
information that it would take abook to cover everything on
(34:59):
them.
But there are a lot you know,and some are very, very
definitive, like we're sure thatthis is the person in the Bible
, and others there's somespeculation, or possible, but
not completely firm.
But it's worth exploring thoseas well because sometimes more
(35:29):
evidence is found later thatsheds additional light on that.
Oh okay, yes, this, this wasthe person in the Bible that we
thought it was.
Wow, that's significant.
Nancy Bruscher (35:36):
That's a lot.
That's a lot.
That's amazing.
David, did you have a question?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (35:42):
Yeah, I was wondering if you found Jesus's
cross, would you be able to knowif it was his or if it was just
a cross?
Yeah, if somebody found that,they probably wouldn't be able
(36:12):
to say this was Jesus's, becausethey just used the same kinds
of cross beams for everybody,basically.
And the thing that wouldconnect to the cross of Jesus
(36:34):
specifically would be that signthat they put up on the cross.
And there is actually anancient artifact that is maybe,
I should say, connected to that,because it looks like it was
made, probably in the earlychurch period, as sort of a I
don't know if I want to sayrelic, but reproduction, but
that is something you know.
It's got an inscription on it.
(36:54):
It's an obvious identification,but just a cross, no, because
they're all the same basically.
Nancy Bruscher (37:05):
This has been so fascinating.
Thank you so much.
As we wrap up, I just want toask what's your favorite Bible
verse or story?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (37:15):
One of my favorite stories in the Bible is
the story of Daniel, and a fewdifferent reasons for that, and
he's a.
He's an excellent example,obviously, and so we have that
to look to him as a role model.
But I also think that whatDaniel is going through is so
(37:40):
relevant to our culture todayand what Christians are looking
like when they are living in avery secularized or even pagan
culture.
And then, from anarchaeological perspective,
there are tons of incrediblediscoveries that relate to the
(38:03):
book of Daniel and many of thepeople that are mentioned in
there, and the places and evenbuildings like the palace of
Nebuchadnezzar, and so I findthat really interesting from a
historical perspective too, andso that's always one of my
favorite books, favorite storiesin the Bible.
Nancy Bruscher (38:22):
Well, that's good.
Well, I have learned so muchand I know you're a busy man.
I so appreciate you taking thetime to talk with us, and I
can't wait to see how people aregoing to be impacted by this.
Dr. Titus Kennedy (38:35):
Yeah, well, thank you for having me on, it's
been my pleasure.
Nancy Bruscher (38:40):
On Ordinary People, extraordinary Things.
Your story is His glory.
Thank you for listening.
I hope this podcast hasimpacted your faith and if you
learned something specific thatreally made the Bible come to
life, send this to someone whomight benefit from hearing about
it.
We will see you in two weeksfor a brand new episode with
(39:00):
Katie Hawk.
See you then.
As summer fades away, we are starting a new
season of Ordinary PeopleExtraordinary Things.
It's season eight.
I'm Nancy Ruscher, I'm yourhost and we are kicking off
today with Dr Titus Kennedy.
He has an amazing story.
He's a biblical archaeologistand he is going to share how we
know that the Bible is realthrough things that they have
(00:24):
found.
My kids are a huge fan of DrTitus Kennedy and we're so
excited to have him on the show.
They even got to ask him aquestion.
If summer has been busy likeit's been in our family.
I hope that you catch up on allthe previous seven seasons of
Ordinary People ExtraordinaryThings and stay tuned to
upcoming podcasts and socialmedia, as I'm going to be
(00:48):
launching my first book.
It's called the Heirloom LegacyBook, a guided kitzig to share
the meaning and future of familytreasures.
Let's get started on thispodcast as we learn about the
treasures that have been foundthat proved that the Bible is
real, about the treasures thathave been found that proved that
the Bible is real.
Welcome to Ordinary PeopleExtraordinary Things.
(01:13):
I'm so excited to have Dr TitusKennedy on the show today, and
my kids are here with me andthey've never been on a podcast,
but they are so excited to talkwith Dr Titus Kennedy about
what he does.
We've watched so many of hisshows on Right Now Media and
it's just an honor to have youon.
Dr. Titus Kennedy (01:28):
Oh, thank you very much, Nancy.
It's great to be here.
Nancy Bruscher (01:31):
So what you do is I kind of saw this on the
website was you're a fieldarchaeologist and you are
specific in ancient East or theMediterranean, the like I would
just call the biblical area?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (01:47):
Is that?
Nancy Bruscher (01:48):
is that fair to say?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (01:51):
Yeah, yeah, that's right, I specialize in
biblical archaeology and so thatencompasses quite a few
countries today and what we callthe Middle East or the Eastern
Mediterranean region, also inplaces like Italy and Greece.
Of course, in the New Testament, in the Old Testament, we've
(02:12):
got all these places Egypt orIraq and Iran, and, of course,
israel and Lebanon, syria,jordan so quite a few places,
and I've done projects in a fewof those countries and research
and many more, and hope tocontinue doing that.
Nancy Bruscher (02:32):
It sounds so fascinating.
What actually sparked yourinterest in archaeology?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (02:38):
I always was interested in history, even in
elementary school.
I really liked that.
And yet I didn't really knowhow we got history.
I didn't know anything aboutarchaeology and so I was just
reading.
And then one day we went on afield trip in class during I
(03:04):
think it was a second grade, andwe went to this historic site.
It was a fort from the 1800sand I was pretty impressed that
it was still standing and Ithought, oh, wow, there really
are old buildings from I call itancient times.
(03:27):
Back then it seemed moreancient than today and I became
fascinated by that.
Soon after the next year I wason vacation with my family and
we got to see an actualarchaeological site that they
had also done some rebuildingand conservation of an ancient
(03:49):
Hawaiian village, and so thatwas really my first
archaeological site that I saw.
And following that, one of myteachers gave me a book to read
on the excavation of Troy byHeinrich Schliemann, and Troy
was that city, the main citywhere the battle happens in
(04:11):
Homer's Iliad, and I had readthe Iliad recently before this,
and so I was familiar with thestory and that opened up the
world of archaeology to me thatthere were people who would go
out and search for these sites,rediscover them, and then they
would actually dig them up andfind all this new information,
(04:34):
new historical information.
For us still didn't really knowthe association between
archaeology and the Bible yet,but a few years later I was
given some books on biblicalarchaeology and I started
reading those and found thatthere were hundreds and hundreds
(04:56):
of discoveries that connectarchaeology to the Bible,
sometimes showing the truth orverifying the historical
accuracy of the text, and othertimes just helping us understand
this ancient faraway world andlands.
Nancy Bruscher (05:15):
Were you a Christian growing up?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (05:18):
Yes, yes, I was.
I grew up in a Christian familygoing to church.
My father had gone to seminary.
In fact, that's how I got a lotof books on biblical
archaeology initially is that heactually had them in his
library and started giving themto me to read because of my
(05:41):
interest in archaeology andhistory, and so that was a big
help for me, because I didn'treally have any connections at
that time to archaeologists, andso he got me started on reading
about the topic.
Nancy Bruscher (05:58):
And are there a lot of misconceptions about your
job.
Do a lot of people still say,oh, are you like Indiana Jones?
Or do people not say somethinglike that?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (06:09):
Yeah, they do , not everybody, but a lot, some
jokingly and some serious.
And then quite often peoplemistake archaeology for
paleontology and althoughthey're closely related and the
processes are very similar, I'mnot usually digging up dinosaur
(06:33):
remains or fossils and so peoplehear archaeologists and some of
them just immediately jump tothings like digging up a T-Rex
or a Stegosaurus or somethinglike that.
I have done excavations ofwoolly mammoths, but no romantic
(06:55):
dinosaur digs.
Finding a Tyrannosaurus Rex oranything like that.
It would be interesting, butit's just a slightly different
field.
Nancy Bruscher (07:04):
Sure, what does your day mostly look like?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (07:08):
It depends on what aspect of my job that is,
but if we're talking about outin the field doing an excavation
, then your typical day is towake up early and have some
coffee or maybe a little bit ofbreakfast to get you some energy
for the day, and then going tothe site and getting everybody
(07:31):
rounded up and started on theirjobs, because we're usually
excavating multiple squares andso we've got to give people the
plan for the day and make surethat we've got all the tools
necessary and get going andstart recording and do
photography early in the morningbecause we track our progress.
(07:54):
So we'll usually take photos atleast in the morning and at the
end of the day, oftenthroughout the day, depending on
what we're finding.
So we start digging.
It depends on the particularsite and also where we are on
the site, if we're using largertools like picks and shovels, or
(08:17):
if we're using small tools liketrowels and brushes.
Whenever we get to an actualarchaeological layer with
pottery and artifacts andbuilding ruins, we're going to
be using the smaller tools.
But sometimes you just have todig through a lot of dirt you
know, maybe agricultural layersbefore you can get to that.
So we'll do that for a fewhours and then we'll take a
(08:41):
break, have some food, maybesome more coffee or water at
least, and then get back to itfor a few more hours and then
we'll clean up at the end of theday and we will go back to
where we're staying.
Sometimes depends on the projectwe might do processing
(09:04):
immediately after we finishexcavating for the day.
So we'll look at all the pottery, we'll sort it out a bit, maybe
record what periods it's from,and other times we will actually
collect that and we'll waittill the end of the excavation
season and then we'll do all ofthat at once over a couple of
(09:25):
weeks or so.
And then in the evenings, youknow usually some free time for
a lot of the dig participants.
If you're a director or staffmember, you probably got more
paperwork to do, some recordingor planning.
You may have teaching duties,because sometimes we've got
(09:58):
graduate students on the dig andwe might be running a class for
them.
Or we might be going to visitsites after the dig each day, or
at least on the weekends aspart of a class, or at least on
(10:28):
the weekends as part of a class.
So yeah, it could be a lot ofthings going on lectures site
week, just because we had areally short window and we had
to pack it in.
But um, others, others do afive day a week schedule now?
Nancy Bruscher (10:35):
is it hard to get into digs?
Are the countries hard to go to?
I mean, I assume that some ofthese places that would have a
lot of archaeology things,there's already a modern city on
top of it.
Dr. Titus Kennedy (10:48):
Yeah, in some cases.
So if you're talking aboutplaces like Jerusalem or Amman
or Athens or Rome, yes, thereare lots of modern buildings and
less than modern.
You know, old, old to ancient,built over what you might be
interested in excavating.
(11:09):
But a lot of places are kind ofout in the middle of nowhere At
this point.
You know what?
What were huge cities are veryimportant cities.
In the past Sometimes they werejust in a farmer's field or
maybe there's a small villagenext to the site.
So kind of depends, Wheneverit's inside a modern city
(11:31):
there's pluses and minuses tothat because, yes, you can stay
in a hotel or apartment orsomething like that that might
be right next to the site andyou have access to a lot of
things grocery stores and othershops.
That's really convenient.
But then there's thedifficulties of you've got to
(11:56):
dig through all of these otherperiods and sometimes have
modern buildings removed priorto excavation.
Or maybe you're digging in aparking lot or something so
you've got to bring in aconstruction crew who's got to
remove that.
So it kind of depends on thesite that you're working on as
(12:21):
far as the different countries,and getting permits the site
that you're working on as far asthe different countries and
getting permits.
Getting permits is one of themost difficult aspects of doing
archaeology today.
Many countries don't reallywant to start any new
archaeological projects, or ifthey do, they don't want to do
(12:42):
any actual digging, they justwant to do some conservation,
clean up the site, put up signs,things for tourism basically
easier, easier to do and willbring in more financial benefits
for the country.
So permits, yeah, they can be.
They can be very difficult toacquire and then then you go
(13:04):
through a fairly long processwith the Department of
Antiquities for whatever countrythat you are proposing, and
you've got to, of course, haveyour budget and have at least
some fundraising in place sothat you can show them that,
yeah, we can actually do thisproject before they let you move
forward.
Nancy Bruscher (13:25):
What is your favorite spot right now to dig,
or what is the most significantthing you've found in a dig?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (13:33):
My favorite spot to dig probably changes
based on what I'm interested in,but most recently I was digging
in Jordan and we had a reallygreat team, so that was
enjoyable.
It was not in the mostconvenient location, the most
(14:03):
convenient location, so we hadto stay in a small village and
make a bit of a drive to thesite every day.
Other times it's been a lotmore convenient on that front.
So, you know, doing projects,say, in Jerusalem or in Yerevan,
the capital of Armenia, you canjust stay in an apartment near
the site and you've goteverything around you that you
need.
So that's a nice benefit.
(14:26):
As far as the really exciting orinteresting things that I've
found over the course of mycareer of my career, I'd say one
of my favorites was an altar, aCanaanite altar from we call it
the late Bronze Age, so sort ofthe time of Moses and Joshua
(14:47):
and getting into the Judgesperiod, and that was really
interesting because it's apretty large structure.
You know, not not one of thesesmall altars with horns on it
which come a little bit later.
We see those talked aboutsometimes in the old Testament,
but quite a few of those havebeen found.
This is a bigger one, you knowwe're talking like at least six
(15:13):
feet wide, eight feet wide,things like that, built out of
large stones.
And yeah, those have been foundbefore, but they're not
extremely common.
There's usually one large onelike that in a city, somewhere,
in a temple, somewhere,something like that.
So that was pretty exciting,and the possibility that it is
(15:35):
connected to a biblical sitealso made it even better.
Nancy Bruscher (15:41):
Where was that at?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (15:44):
This was at a place in the West Bank that I
would identify as the biblicalsite of Beit Aben.
It's mentioned in Joshua 7.
Nancy Bruscher (15:55):
Okay, can you tell?
You said the bronze age.
Are you able to tell because ofwhat it's made of and then also
like how many layers down, or I?
I think I've read a book theycall them tells.
Is that right?
Like a like a civilization on acivilization.
Dr. Titus Kennedy (16:14):
So tell means mound, okay, so there's.
There are these cities thatwere.
They're actually built on amound purposely.
It's not that they werebuilding on a flat place and
then it became a mound.
They they either built on anatural mound or they even
created mounds, but then, overtime, they made them larger as
(16:38):
well by having these successivecities built on top of one
another.
As far as being able to tellwhich period things come from,
primarily that has to do withthe materials that you're
digging up, especially potterypottery, but in other periods
(17:00):
you're looking at various typesof artifacts.
For example, if we're lookingin the late Bronze Age, as we
talked about, you might findsome Egyptian scarab steels
there with the name of a pharaohon it, and so that would give
you a range of dates within thetime that that pharaoh was king.
(17:23):
And then in later periods, likethe Roman period, the time of
the New Testament, people wereusing coins a lot, and so you
find a coin, and some of thesecoins had the image and name of
a ruler on it, and oftentimeseven the year of their reign,
(17:43):
and so you can see okay, well,this was issued in 28 ad, and so
this coin was in use from 28 aduntil you know, let's say this,
the ruler died in 39 orsomething like that, and then
they stopped issuing those coinsand they would strike over them
(18:07):
or issue a new coin and sothey'd go out of circulation not
too long after that.
So you get a pretty precisedate for that Pottery.
Not as much, you know.
We're looking at more like 50 or100-year period, but it's still
helpful.
There's other clues, likearchitecture changes as well,
and then you talked about thelayers.
(18:28):
So those layers, thestratigraphy that can help us,
because if we have 10 differentlayers at one of these mounds
and we know the date of layersone, two, three and four and we
get to five, okay, we know thatthat's earlier than four, but
(18:49):
maybe there's sort of aprogression as well, like it
doesn't jump 1000 years, maybeit's just 100 years or something
like that.
We keep seeing a steady years,maybe it's just a hundred years
or something like that.
We keep seeing a steadyprogression.
So there's a lot of clues wecan put together, as well as
some of the more definitiveevidence, like pottery
inscriptions, coins, scarabs, etcetera, and things like
(19:12):
radiocarbon dating as well insome periods.
Nancy Bruscher (19:16):
You said you grew up as a Christian.
How has archaeology, andspecifically studying like the
biblical archaeology, how hasthat like, encouraged your faith
or changed your faith?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (19:29):
Well, first it was pretty amazing to me that
all this evidence was still inexistence and more continued to
be discovered, and so I saw thatit wasn't just a book, that the
(19:49):
Bible wasn't just a book oftheology and spiritual guidance,
that these were real events,real places, real people, and we
had tangible evidence for that.
And when I went on my first digand I got to see a lot of other
(20:09):
sites as well and some museums,then it really made it come to
life and be more real for me.
Not that I was questioning thatit was true or anything, but it
went from being abstract tosomething tangible.
(20:30):
And so I think you can connectwith the Bible and your faith on
another level when you get toactually go see those places and
those things that the Bibletalks about and, in a way,
experience it a bit for yourself.
So that's been one of thethings that's impacted my faith,
(20:54):
things that's impacted my faith.
The other is that I think it'sreally helped in Bible study
because as you learn more aboutancient history and geography
and culture, you can visualizewhat you're reading better and
you understand some things thatmaybe we wouldn't quite get if
(21:17):
we're just working from aframework of the 21st century,
things that were a lot differentback then the way that they
built, the cultural traditionsthey had the technology, the
history, the people that livedaround there.
So all that, I think, hashelped my understanding as I
(21:42):
study through the Bible and alsohelps just with the
visualization of it.
Nancy Bruscher (21:48):
If someone is listening and they are having
some doubts, what are somebiblical archaeologies that have
been really impactful that youthink would help solidify their
faith?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (22:02):
One of my favorite examples that I often
go to is the biblical story ofDavid and the archaeological
evidence for that.
And this one is so interestingto me and, I think, a very
relevant example because it'sfairly recent discoveries and
(22:24):
the change was very radical interms of skeptical views about
David and his historicalexistence and historians outside
of Christians who believed inthe historical reliability of
(22:49):
the Bible.
Most were thinking that Davidwas not a real person, he was
not a historical figure, he wassome kind of legendary or
mythological king that had beeninvented to tell the story, to
prove a point, to sort of spreadpropaganda, as they would often
(23:10):
say, for the kingdom of Judahand their priestly system and so
forth.
And the reason that theythought that David didn't exist
just besides a bias against theBible, thought that David didn't
exist, just besides a biasagainst the Bible is that there
(23:32):
had been no archaeologicalevidence found that specifically
mentioned David or directlyconnected to events about him in
the Bible.
But then in 1993, there was anexcavation going at the ancient
city of Dan in northern Israel,north of the Sea of Galilee, and
(23:52):
they were excavating an areaoutside of the city gate, this
stone paved area, a plaza, andthey found this broken piece of
a victory monument, a stele wecall it, and it was inscribed,
(24:13):
and you know that alone is quitethe find.
You don't discover a lot ofthose types of things.
But as they read it they sawthat it was talking about kings
of Israel and Judah.
And then it mentioned theirorigin and it said of the house
of David, and this came from the9th century BC, so it wasn't
(24:35):
long after the time of David,and it was also written by the
Arameans, who were enemies ofthe Israelites.
So no one could say that thiswas propaganda, that the
Israelites were just tellingthis mythological story, and
that kind of changed thingsalmost overnight.
(24:55):
So a lot of archaeologists thenswitched their view and said,
okay, I guess David was ahistorical king.
And there were a few who triedto push back on this and made
some forgery claims or said thatit was talking about something
else.
And you know those types ofclaims were shut down pretty
(25:19):
quickly and definitively.
On the forgery front, one itwas found in a controlled
archaeological excavations.
But in the subsequent seasonthey actually found more
fragments of this broken stele.
So it was clearly an ancientstele, not a forgery meaning
(25:46):
something else.
I mean, you just read thecontext and it's totally obvious
that it's talking aboutIsraelite kings, kings of Judah
and Israel, and it has nothingto do with some other person,
kingdom name, location, anythinglike that.
So that was just a hugediscovery.
So that was just a hugediscovery, and since then there
(26:12):
have been things like findingthe palace of David in Jerusalem
and discovering other evidencefrom sites outside of Jerusalem
that show that there was thislarge, organized kingdom during
the time of David, that hewasn't just like a tribal leader
in Jerusalem, and that's it, sobolstering the historical
reliability of the biblicalnarrative about David.
(26:35):
So what does this teach us?
Besides that there isarchaeological evidence for the
reliability of Scripture, well,it also shows us that things
continue to be discovered.
There's a lot out there, andeven when people are skeptical
of the Bible or saying, look,you know, there's no evidence
(26:58):
for this person or this eventthat may change at any time,
event that may change at anytime, basically every year
there's some kind of moderatelyto very significant discovery
made that connects to the Biblein archaeology, and so I would
say there's a lot of exampleslike this and things continue to
(27:22):
be found.
So, even though they're alwaysgoing to be skeptics.
Not only is there so muchevidence now, but there will be
even more in the future, as thiswork progresses.
Nancy Bruscher (27:35):
What is something that you'd like to see
discovered?
What is the big thing you wouldlike to see that would help
people point to the Bible?
I think again that some, a lotof people would think of are
people still looking for the Arkof the Covenant?
That seems like a big one thatpeople have tried to find
forever.
But are there other things thatyou're thinking?
(27:57):
Gosh, this would be really neatand I think we could find it
here it here.
Dr. Titus Kennedy (28:11):
Yeah, there, there are many, many different
things.
So, uh, at this point you couldtalk about some of the the more
famous things like, uh, youmentioned the ark of the
covenant.
I mean, I think that would beobviously a huge discovery.
I don't know whether or notthat is something that will ever
be found, but, yeah, that Ithink would get a lot of
people's attention.
There's also quite often talkabout Noah's Ark.
(28:35):
You know, if there's anyremains of that, some of that's
found, although that I don'tthink would be as clear as
something like the ark of thecovenant, because people might
just say, look, it's some, someold wood or it's just some ship.
Uh, you've got other otherthings like, well, some that may
(28:56):
have been discovered but aren'tso clear, but we could at least
say discoveries that clarifythings like sodom and gorrah or,
uh, zohar or, um, some of the,the evidence for the Exodus, you
know, especially Egyptianevidence, something that's
that's really obvious and clear.
(29:19):
We have a lot of circumstantialevidence for for many events in
the Bible, but there are somewhere you would say, okay, if we
found something that was veryclear and definitive, that would
make a big impact.
And then, of course, you mightlook at the New Testament.
There's some interestingpotential there as well.
(29:40):
For example, the site ofColossae has still not been
excavated.
So if that eventually happens,then I think there will be some
really great discoveries there,potentially some things
connected with Paul and theearly church.
So that would be reallyexciting when we're talking
(30:01):
about New Testament archaeology.
So you know, there's lots ofdifferent things and it depends
on people's interests, sometimesthe notoriety of things, but
some of the lesser knowndiscoveries can also be really
significant historically.
Nancy Bruscher (30:22):
Are you thinking of one in particular?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (30:29):
historically.
Are you thinking of one inparticular?
Well, one that I don't thinkpeople maybe talk about as much,
as there is a copy of the lawin the time of Joshua, and that
would be extremely significantif that or a fragment of that
was discovered.
I mean, it would put push thedate of the mosaic law and
(30:49):
scripture back quite a bit in uhin the minds of many people who
are more on a skeptical orliberal viewpoint, and it would
also have some reallyinteresting information about
ancient language and script aswell.
(31:11):
We don't know exactly what allof that looked like at the time
of Joshua, for example, sothat's something as well, I
think, think, be veryinteresting.
Um, we could talk about early,earlier periods.
You know genesis uh, the towerof babel, for example.
(31:32):
So babylon uh has not beenexcavated to the early levels
because the euphrates rivershifted and the earlier the
lower section of that city isunderwater, and so it would be
quite a task to try to do that,but there's a lot of potential
(31:54):
there.
We don't have that muchinformation about the earlier
sort of pre-Abraham material inthe Bible, and so there's
potential for some greatdiscoveries there as well.
Nancy Bruscher (32:10):
If someone wants to learn more about archaeology
or we've referenced your RightNow Media or other places that
you're on can you share wherethey might get started?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (32:22):
Sure might get started.
Sure, I've got a few books outright now and I actually have
one that I just finished thatwill be published soon.
So my start with that, theUnearthing.
The Bible is an easy to read,good one.
To start out, I think if you'rejust looking to see if a
(32:47):
biblical archaeology issomething that you're interested
in and you don't want to committo something that's too long or
detailed.
But my book on the archaeologyof jesus excavating the evidence
of Jesus that's there forpeople who are interested in a
more detailed telling of theGospels alongside archaeology,
(33:12):
the discoveries that connect allthe historical material there.
And then I wrote a book as wellon about 70 sites I cover that
are mentioned in all differentbiblical lands.
So this might be more of peoplewho are interested in visiting
(33:35):
some of these biblical sites,maybe in person, maybe virtually
, but you can learn about thedifferent cities of the Bible
and what's been found thereconnecting to the biblical
narrative.
And then the newest book that Ijust finished is on all the
(33:55):
people who are named in theBible for which there is
archaeological evidence orattestation.
Is archaeological evidence orattestation.
To me it's pretty astonishinghow many people in the Bible.
We know them througharchaeology as well.
Both the Old and the NewTestament and again I think this
(34:16):
speaks to this idea of theBible is a book about real
people, real places and realevents.
It's not just fairy tales orsome spiritual advice.
Nancy Bruscher (34:32):
Do you know how many offhand are mentioned in
the Bible that you have?
Archeology, archeology yes.
Dr. Titus Kennedy (34:39):
So I I address 132 people in the book.
Some of them it's very short,others there's so much
information that it would take abook to cover everything on
(34:59):
them.
But there are a lot you know,and some are very, very
definitive, like we're sure thatthis is the person in the Bible
, and others there's somespeculation, or possible, but
not completely firm.
But it's worth exploring thoseas well because sometimes more
(35:29):
evidence is found later thatsheds additional light on that.
Oh okay, yes, this, this wasthe person in the Bible that we
thought it was.
Wow, that's significant.
Nancy Bruscher (35:36):
That's a lot.
That's a lot.
That's amazing.
David, did you have a question?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (35:42):
Yeah, I was wondering if you found Jesus's
cross, would you be able to knowif it was his or if it was just
a cross?
Yeah, if somebody found that,they probably wouldn't be able
(36:12):
to say this was Jesus's, becausethey just used the same kinds
of cross beams for everybody,basically.
And the thing that wouldconnect to the cross of Jesus
(36:34):
specifically would be that signthat they put up on the cross.
And there is actually anancient artifact that is maybe,
I should say, connected to that,because it looks like it was
made, probably in the earlychurch period, as sort of a I
don't know if I want to sayrelic, but reproduction, but
that is something you know.
It's got an inscription on it.
(36:54):
It's an obvious identification,but just a cross, no, because
they're all the same basically.
Nancy Bruscher (37:05):
This has been so fascinating.
Thank you so much.
As we wrap up, I just want toask what's your favorite Bible
verse or story?
Dr. Titus Kennedy (37:15):
One of my favorite stories in the Bible is
the story of Daniel, and a fewdifferent reasons for that, and
he's a.
He's an excellent example,obviously, and so we have that
to look to him as a role model.
But I also think that whatDaniel is going through is so
(37:40):
relevant to our culture todayand what Christians are looking
like when they are living in avery secularized or even pagan
culture.
And then, from anarchaeological perspective,
there are tons of incrediblediscoveries that relate to the
(38:03):
book of Daniel and many of thepeople that are mentioned in
there, and the places and evenbuildings like the palace of
Nebuchadnezzar, and so I findthat really interesting from a
historical perspective too, andso that's always one of my
favorite books, favorite storiesin the Bible.
Nancy Bruscher (38:22):
Well, that's good.
Well, I have learned so muchand I know you're a busy man.
I so appreciate you taking thetime to talk with us, and I
can't wait to see how people aregoing to be impacted by this.
Dr. Titus Kennedy (38:35):
Yeah, well, thank you for having me on, it's
been my pleasure.
Nancy Bruscher (38:40):
On Ordinary People, extraordinary Things.
Your story is His glory.
Thank you for listening.
I hope this podcast hasimpacted your faith and if you
learned something specific thatreally made the Bible come to
life, send this to someone whomight benefit from hearing about
it.
We will see you in two weeksfor a brand new episode with
(39:00):
Katie Hawk.
See you then.
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