December 15, 2024 • 35 mins
Ever wondered how to tailor your parenting approach to fit each unique child in your family? Join us for a heart-to-heart with Dawn, a remarkable mother of nine from Iowa, whose journey of intentional parenting is nothing short of inspiring. Dawn opens up about the trials and triumphs of adapting her parenting style to nurture the distinctive hearts of each of her children. She underscores the importance of granting ourselves grace as parents, reminding us that flexibility and understanding are key to thriving in the ever-evolving landscape of family life.
“Intentional parenting is the never ending process of pursuing the hearts of my children.”
As we wrap up, we delve into the transformative power of building deeper relationships through personal influence rather than authority. Inspired by Matthew Kelly's "The Seven Levels of Intimacy," Dawn shares how vulnerability and intentional effort can nurture authentic bonds within the family. Through personal anecdotes, she emphasizes the importance of creating meaningful one-on-one interactions, fostering respect and individuality. Join us as we cherish the profound impact of personal stories and family moments, inviting you to embrace your own journey and stay tuned for more inspiring episodes of "Ordinary People Extraordinary Things."
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thank you for making Ordinary People, extraordinary
Things what it is today.
Thank you for sharing.
You are the best way for peopleto hear about Ordinary People,
extraordinary Things, and aboutfaith and hope and how it
impacts us.
We are in 42 countries.
I cannot believe it.
(00:21):
Continue to share.
Continue to share with peopleall over the world, in your own
city and the country where weremember that, at Ordinary
People, extraordinary Things,your story is His glory.
Welcome to Ordinary People,extraordinary Things.
I'm here with Dawn Dawn, thankyou so much for being on.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you for having me.
I'm delighted to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
And we got in touch with each other because of my
sister-in-law, jenny, so thankyou to her for having us connect
.
Yeah, if someone doesn't knowwho you are, dawn, can you give
three words or phrases todescribe yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Well, I'm very persistent.
I would say that I'm loyal andthat I really like to ask
questions and research and kindof study people.
So but basically I'm just.
I mean I'm married and I havenine kids ages 30 to 13.
(01:19):
And I homeschool and we live onan acreage in the middle of.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Iowa.
How many acres do you have?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
We just have a couple acres, but our land connects
and kind of butts up to my, mydad's and then my brother's, and
so we're in the middle of thisbeautiful area in central Iowa
though.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
So, oh, that's so wonderful, that's amazing.
So when we got to chat, we weretalking about intentional
parenting.
It's kind of where we're goingwith ours.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
What does that mean, or what does that mean to you?
Well, so I made a few notes andwhen I was thinking about
what's the first thing thatcomes to my mind, when I think
about what I mean withintentional parenting, it's this
never ending process ofpursuing the hearts of my
children and studying them, andknowing that that is that's
(02:18):
always changing and with ninekids, you know I have very
different personalities, butit's like this, this diligent
commitment to pursuing andknowing them by studying them,
and which I believe personallythat it is.
It's part of our responsibility, you know, a God given
(02:40):
responsibility, to really knowthe hearts of our children so
that we can accompany them intheir strengths and weaknesses
and cheerlead them well and thenalso disciple and discipline
them well that's good.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Have you always been intentionally parenting or have
you always had this focus or thethese words?
Or is it somewhat?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
no, no, I would say from the beginning that I went
at it with I'm going to kind ofbe all in, you know, I'm going
to really know the hearts of mykids.
Now, that being said, with ninekids and 17 years, there were
seasons at it that I can see, oh, wow, you can tell I had a new
(03:24):
baby, or I was pregnant, or Imean I was either pregnant or
breastfeeding for almost 20years straight, and so there was
a lot of physical exhaustion.
But what I say, that I havebeen committed to the abilities
that I had during differentseasons for being very
intentional.
Yes, I would say that I've justknown my whole life, that I
(03:46):
wanted to have a large familyand that I just, I really wanted
to know the hearts of my kids.
As, that being said, I wouldalso say that how I thought that
would look when I was in mytwenties is very different than
how it has ended up in my 50s,because I'm I'm still learning
(04:06):
more all the time what thatmeans, and the deeper that you
go into the heart of anyone inany relationship, you know you
find more things and discovermore things, but you also end up
realizing how very little youknow.
You're humbled by the process.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Do you give yourself grace for that, or does it
frustrate you to think I didn'tdo that with this kid and I did
this with this one, but couldn'tdo it with this one?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So um, I think that when you have a large family
actually I'm going to changethat.
I think with any familysituation, we really need to go
into it with an understandingthat it's not always going to
look the same, because it's notsupposed to be the same.
It's not about fair, it's aboutwhat they need, and so each kid
(04:58):
is going to have differentneeds depending upon their right
, their age, their season, whatthey're growing up in.
My 13, I have seven daughtersand two sons.
My oldest is 30, a son, andthen my youngest is 13, a son.
Now my 13 year old is going toneed very different things.
Some of the same thingsfoundational, right, that all
(05:20):
kids need to be seen and secureand really soothed and all of
that attachment stuff.
But my son, my oldest son hedidn't have a smartphone until
he was 19.
Like, there wasn't even all ofthat.
He didn't have to know how tonavigate that.
So my younger son is going toneed different things from me
(05:41):
than his brother.
So it's not supposed to looklike a cookie cutter, but I have
certain kids that would that.
That's hard with seeing.
Oh wow, these younger kids aregetting a very different life.
It's not so hard, you know forthem as it was for us, or I
don't know.
There can be discontent in thetribe here and there, but as far
as for me, I think I wentthrough a period of time where I
(06:04):
thought, oh my gosh, I'm doingthings different.
Am I going to scar my childrenfor life?
And then I don't know.
I kind of wrestled with it someand realized, wait a minute, I
am supposed to be different.
I am very different parent.
It's some of it's good.
I mean, I should have somelived wisdom.
And then, like you said, I dogive myself grace now, better
(06:26):
than I probably did five yearsago.
But yes, that's an ever-growingprocess, though, isn't it when
we're always continually tryingto give ourselves grace?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, that's a good point.
What about the expectation ofnot feeling like you're doing
enough, either in parenting orhomeschooling?
I homeschool our kids too, butI think it can go with
homeschooling or not.
But you're always wondering,okay, this person's doing that,
maybe we should.
This person's doing that,they're in that sport or this or
(06:57):
this, and am I doing enough?
Should I change how I'mteaching?
Should I change a myriad ofthings?
What would you say to that?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
One of the things that I say to my older daughters
.
I have three daughters that aremarried and two of them have
children, and I can already seethis, this the society we live
in has way too many choices.
I mean when I first startedhomeschooling, for example,
there were like three choices inmath book, you know.
I mean so that some of it is wehave too many choices.
(07:28):
I would say trust your instinct, you're the mom you know best.
Just because Susie is, you know, doing violin and Japanese or
whatever, doesn't mean you haveto, and that it's really not
about raising a well-roundedchild, which is one of my least
favorite statements, becausethat really isn't the goal.
(07:50):
The reason I don't like thatstatement is because it's it's
subjective and it's based uponone person's definition of what
well, well-rounded means, andthat's actually not our goal,
but shouldn't be our goal ifwe're Christ followers.
It's, basically, are weteaching our kids to love Jesus?
And so that's going to lookdifferent because of my
(08:12):
strengths are different thanyour strengths, but I think it's
okay to say no.
I'm a huge fan of Brene Brown.
She does a whole bunch of stuff.
She's like a social therapistkind of, all that kind of stuff,
but she she said, choosediscomfort over resentment was
one of her phrases on how tolike, how to say no.
(08:34):
Well, and I thought, oh, that'sso good, you know, like in the
moment, just saying no tocertain things, and sometimes we
need to do that even to ourkids.
But a lot of times we just getasked to be involved in things
or whatever.
The best homeschooling adviceanyone gave me years ago was, at
the end of the day, just read,read to your kids.
(08:56):
You're having a baby.
Things are crazy, you know theeveryone in the house is sick.
Just read, because that'srelational.
And then if you ask my kids,what do you remember most,
they're gonna say the books weread together.
We know when we cried in thegreat stories.
You know that's.
That's what they're gonnaremember.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
So and if they learn to read, then they should be
able to pick up almost anythingthey need to.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, you know, and exactly if we.
But it's not just learning toread, I think it's loving
reading.
So when they see that they can,that you love reading and that
we read together and there'sthis relational aspect, I do
think it spills over and canallow them to have that same
love for reading.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, you said you don't like the word well-rounded
.
Is it because it's totallysubjective?
Or do you think it means thatyou have to be in this and this
and this and this and this?
What do you think the wordmeans?
I think, when most people sayit.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I think that it's not necessarily a liberal arts
education.
I think it means more that theywant their kids to be in all
kinds of activities and I thinkat the end of the day, our kids
get really tired and they reallyneed way more downtime than
we're giving them time toprocess, time to have those
spontaneous conversations thatsimply aren't going to happen
(10:24):
when they're exhausted.
Especially, teenagers reallyare not getting enough sleep.
They're not getting enough ofthat time where you just have we
call it in our house carefreetimelessness, where you just
kind of waste time together butit's intentional, but yet it
also leaves room, room for, youknow, spontaneity in there.
(10:46):
I value that.
I also value play and playingtogether and then you know,
ideally, encouraging thatcreativity that only comes from
a certain amount of downtime.
And I think, well-rounded whenmost people mean it mean, uh, an
overabundance of activities,that you're just not going to
(11:08):
convince me that those are allas fruitful as I think people
believe they are.
Twice a year I have for years Ihave asked myself and gone
through all of our activitiesand said is this activity or a
group or whatever?
Does it have eternalsignificance?
Is this helping my child growin their love for others and God
(11:35):
, and if it's not, then it kindof gets put on the chopping
block, you know, and it goes onprobation a little bit and then
maybe six months later I canjust get rid of it.
So just things like that that'sintentional to me is
continually looking at ourschedule and evaluating is this
(11:57):
really fruitful?
for this child for our familyand then, if it's not, then you
can just say you know thatworked for a season and it's not
working anymore, and being okaywith that.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah.
Do you think that's difficultIs we've talked about phases of
our life, yeah, yeah, superdifficult.
What are some things that youhad at phases of your life that
you don't have, that were really, really, really wonderful at
that time, but it just doesn'twork?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
So my kids, the first four, five, five kids were
super involved in 4-H.
I don't know, are you familiarwith that?
Yes, yeah, yeah.
So we were all in.
Then we started to get involvedmy high schoolers in mission
work in Nicaragua and I couldn'tmanage helping with both
because I was running missiontrips in Nicaragua for my high
(12:53):
school kids and their friendsessentially, and we did that for
about 10 years.
So 4-H was about 10 or 12 yearsand then we kind of faded into
Nicaragua being more of where weput, like that, you know, like
that mission kind of just theout of the house kind of energy,
like that.
You know, like that missionkind of just the out of the
(13:14):
house kind of energy.
And right now I have a lot ofthat energy is going into local
stuff and I have kids kind ofgetting married and scattering
and having kids, and so we'reputting a lot of energy into
those kinds of relationships.
So these younger four kids thatare at home are helping watch
their nephews.
I have seven grandsons and onegranddaughter and so they're
(13:36):
getting to help, you know, withthat kind of relationship.
So, yeah, I mean I think beingokay with saying you know what
it's going to look different asthe needs of our family change.
And then, but yet, trying asmuch as we're able to kind of be
all in for whatever it is thatwe're doing, we're teaching our
kids and important to you know,stay with something for a while,
(13:59):
but then also, at the same time, constantly evaluating is there
good from this?
Are my kids looking forward tothis?
Is this pulling us closertogether?
And then, boy, it can be reallyhard to stop something or try
to, you know, kind of phase outof it.
But every time we have, um, youknow, like a few weeks later
(14:20):
the kids will be like wow, it is, I'm so glad we're taking a
break now from that activity oror whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
So that's good.
That's good.
Do you think we get exhaustedtrying to fit in?
I sometimes still get the I'm?
Homeschooling has become reallypopular now.
I'm sure it wasn't when youstarted, but I still get the
thing of.
Well, don't you?
You don't want your kids to beweird for me.
(14:49):
I don't want them to be likeweird, but I want them to be
weird For me.
I don't want them to be likeweird, but I want them to be
different.
I don't want them to write looklike the rest of the world and
exactly what.
Do you have any thoughts onthat?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I've always felt really strongly.
I was raised in a home wherefitting in was never the goal
and actually the language weshould look different was used,
and so that feels very familiarto me.
My mom threw the TV away when Iwas 12.
And so I always kind of I grewup kind of like knowing that
(15:22):
we're the only ones without a TVand maybe feeling a little left
out, but being really, reallygrateful in the end for
understanding what it means tojust focus your energy on not
fitting in, and that that isactually biblical in a lot of
ways.
But it is very, very exhaustingto feel like you're always
(15:42):
going against the grain.
You know there are times whenyou know it is a lot of work.
Yeah, fitting in is is is hardto, even amongst our peers, you
know.
As moms, you know, we alwayskind of want to have like a few
people, a tribe, you know, orwhatever people that we feel
like where we belong and thatcan sometimes change through
(16:04):
different seasons too.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Do you find that that's, that's the same as
phasing out of different things,or because it's more relational
.
It's a little bit moredifficult when, when friendships
and those kind of things phaseout or in.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I feel like I'm in this unique place where I have
married kids and still kids athome and I'm still homeschooling
and I don't have very manypeople in my life that you know,
know, I can necessarily relateto and, honestly, I don't have a
ton of time and because I'm sointentional and committed in
general, like I and all in, Ihave a son-in-law who taught me
(16:42):
the phrase he'd rather have fourquarters than a hundred pennies
when it comes to friends andI'm, I'm so like him in that way
.
I'd rather have just a fewpeople that are like super,
really loyal and that know mewell and stuff, than a hundred.
I don't actually have socialmedia anymore, partly because I
just felt like it was gettinglike five years ago I got rid of
(17:02):
it.
It just felt like it wasgetting more and more watered
down.
Not that I was ever super intoit, because I honestly, I don't
have a ton of time for it withjust all of the relationships
around me.
But yeah, I think, as women, ifthere was one thing this is a
little bit off topic but ifthere was like one thing that I
could say to the church boy wereally need to be helping women
(17:26):
is as understanding all thethings that go on with menopause
and how that changes like whatwe need as women from other
women.
Because I really feel like Iwent through this period of time
where, like the hormones wereand the lack of hormones and
whatever, and just honestly forme, not having children anymore
(17:47):
and having that identity shift.
Two of my sons-in-laws werekind of really involved in my
house.
One actually lived with us fora while before he started dating
my daughter and so like I kindof got had this shift of
relationships and I wish therehad been some accompaniment with
that like or maybe a little bitmore understanding of the fact
(18:09):
that I was going to needdifferent things.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, why do you think they don't talk about it?
Is it because every woman willgo through it at if they live
long enough?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
That is an excellent question, maybe because it does
change for a woman to a womanand her needs.
I think we don't talk enoughabout midlife crisis and those,
those kinds of things, becauseit's kind of awkward and it's
super vulnerable, like it'ssuper, super vulnerable to say,
wow, I got things going oninside me that this isn't what I
(18:42):
thought it was going to looklike.
And I'm talking about, you know, from a biblical perspective of
understanding, that you know,just cause I can't have babies
anymore Doesn't mean I'm a mom.
You know, like I actuallyreally struggled with that and
really had to, you know, talk tomyself and like, yeah, I just I
really went through a period oftime where that was really hard
(19:04):
for me that having thatidentity change, maybe like the
shift I mean I don't think it'sbeing addressed in the way that
maybe it could be to be apositive.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
So yeah, I hear what you're saying.
I would probably assume thatit's just that we're not very
good at actually beingvulnerable with each other.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I think I'm actually pretty good at it myself, but I
think I'm a pursuer of otherpeople and so sometimes I went
through this period of timewhere I really needed to be
pursued, and so a lot ofpeople's it's not their default.
And so I think in general, ingeneral as a society we're
(19:44):
becoming, we're we're actuallyreally struggling to be pursuers
.
I think God kind of gives somepeople a certain gift to be, you
know, a little more adventurousin the pursuing department, but
I still think that as a culturewe don't tend to pursue people,
and because it is vulnerablefor sure.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
And do you?
What do you mean by pursue,like, try to get people to go
deeper?
Ask another question is thatwhat you're?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
there's a book I read years ago, um, it's called the
seven levels of intimacy byMatthew Kelly, and he talks
about you know, most people kindof settle at three, and he's
not talking about intimacy, onlylike within the marriage, like
he's just talking about friendsand what is it like to like have
(20:36):
like a real tried and truefriend?
And you know, there's, there'sa lot of stuff that you, you
know, you go through.
That's the hard stuff, you know, and that's the sharing of the
dreams and the hopes and, um,that kind of stuff.
That is what has to happen forthose friendships to develop, um
and get deeper.
One of the things that I, goingback to the intentional
(20:56):
parenting too, is that I reallykind of made this commitment
that I was going to try reallyhard how to figure out as a
parent, how to move fromauthority to influence with my
older kids.
Not that I wanted to be BFFswith all of my kids, because you
know there's different dynamicsin how that would work.
Not that I wanted to be BFFswith all of my kids, because you
know there's different dynamicsin how that would work, but
(21:16):
that I would offer it and then Iwould try really hard on my
part to have those side by siderelationships with them and so
moving from authority to justlike influence as a friend would
influence another friend.
There's a lot of fruit fromthat in my life that I I've seen
.
But that, once again, thatthere's a lot of fruit from that
in my life that I've seen.
But once again that also takes alot of work.
You know we're not limitless inour ability to be vulnerable.
(21:40):
You know we have to get filledback up.
I think I've noticed for me inmy 50s and late 40s I'm 54, I
need more silence and solitudeto kind of refresh me and and
kind of fill me back up to goout into the world again and be
vulnerable, whether it be withmy kids, my husband or friends,
(22:01):
like it.
Just I need something differentthan I used to.
I used to, honestly, for about20 years, a nap and a clean
kitchen pretty much solved allof my problems.
It's not that way anymore.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Are there any tidbits you can give on what you were
talking about the authority toinfluence and when about would
you start that with yourchildren?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
That's a really great question.
Like I said, I like to study mykids.
I think with each kid itchanges.
There's having thisavailability for our kids,
especially in high school.
I think it's just so importantto not assume that just because
our kids are moody or all overthe place, that they still don't
really need us in a differentway.
(22:44):
I think it requires us tochange our mindset on what
that's gonna look like and besuper flexible and know that one
day, one minute, they're gonnaneed mom and the next they're
gonna.
Just they wanna be likeindependent, but they're not
quite ready.
They don't really know whatthat looks like.
They just flip flop back andforth for years.
(23:05):
Honestly, and somepersonalities do it more than
others.
My advice would be to be patientand but but don't give up.
Ask questions, listen really,really well.
There was a period of timewhere my son, my oldest, would.
I would say, hey, what's up?
You seem like something'sbothering you, and he would be
(23:25):
like, no, I'm fine, and I wouldjust go in his room and I would
sit and like crochet, a blanketor something and just like hang
out, and it would be when maybeall of his siblings were in bed.
The house was quiet and sooneror later, if I was patient
enough, almost always a subjectwould come up or something that
he really needed to talk aboutor he would choose to share.
(23:46):
But teenagers don't shareunless they know they're going
to be uninterrupted.
And so in a house like my house, where I was very, very busy, I
had to really intentionallycreate that space where they
would know that they would getme uninterrupted.
So one-on-one time, that wouldbe a huge recommend.
I still do it Like I'm still tryand single people out because
(24:11):
they're going to be differentand they're going to be more
relaxed, and that's saying Icare about you as an individual,
which is what friend time isright.
It's being singled out byanother person and then just
really listening to them and doand creating activities and
doing things where I know I'mnot going to have to make any
(24:32):
decisions for them, like askingthem what do you want to do?
If, what are you thinking?
And then not saying, oh my gosh, that's the dumbest thing ever,
even in your mind, if you'rethinking, oh, wow, just really
respecting them and respectingthat they're going to have very
different thoughts and ideasthan you, and and delighting in
that, saying wow, that is socool.
(24:54):
What a great idea.
Delight is actually one of myfavorite words.
One of my son-in-laws teases meabout that, but I think that's
how God looks at us.
I think he looks at us and justsays you're so amazing.
Like I just can't, can't getover how awesome.
And he delights in us and andso he wants us to delight in
these kids that he's given us.
(25:15):
You know, and we're we're beinggiven them and they're on loan,
you know they're not ours.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Oh, that's so good.
What I hear you saying is thatyour ministry starts at home.
It's kind of what it feels likeit's boiling down to a lot.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
I have a piece of wood in our dining room that's
six feet long and it says alwaysmission, and it's right next to
our kitchen table and it'sthere to remind me, yeah, that
the mission starts at home, forsure.
That's amazing.
When it comes to discipline,one of the my least favorite
phrases is because I said so andthat's because there's no why
(25:50):
in it.
And if you really want yourkids to understand something and
honestly respond in obedience,they really need to know the why
, which means you need to knowthe why.
So I just I think that's really, really important that, as a
parent, intentional parentingstarts with knowing our own
story.
(26:11):
I also think that every personat some point has to forgive
their parents for being humanand forgive yourself for being
human.
And then a lot of people don'tdo this, nancy, and so you go
through life, maybe feelingangry or frustrated or whatever,
and maybe not even realizing it, but, just like you were saying
(26:31):
at the beginning, givingourselves grace.
But that happens when werealize our humanness and we we
get comfortable with it and werealize, you know, this is, this
is all good.
So I think we get that way alsowhen we know ourselves.
I heard somewhere someone saythat you can't love other people
any more than you love yourself, and I think that really comes
(26:54):
from knowing our identity as ason or daughter in Christ first,
and once you know that that'syour foundation, then that helps
you become a better parent, abetter friend, whatever no, I
like that about the articulatingthe why.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I think that that's important for me, specifically
in raising our children and thenin homeschooling, because when
there's a million things thatcome out at you, you to make a
decision of are we going to dothis, are we going to add this,
are we going to subtract this?
If I know why I am doing it,then it helps.
(27:33):
Yes, no maybe.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Well, and involving your children in that process
too, like, why do you think weshould keep this or get rid of
this?
It just it shows them so muchlove when we respect their
opinions and their thoughts andhonestly understand.
They're given to us as a giftand partly because they're going
to be different from us, likethey're supposed to teach us
(27:58):
something by their differentstrengths and weaknesses than
ours, and so yeah, that's a goodpoint.
I think that our world todayisn't very.
We don't have a naturaltendency to speak kindness to
ourselves the way we would toother people.
So one of the things I feellike I tell my daughters a lot
(28:20):
is is you know, I just try, Iwant to, I so want to be their
biggest cheerleader my sons too.
I really want them to know thatI believe in them right where
they're at, but that I love themso much I want them to keep
growing as well.
And so there's that happymedium, you know, but it's the
same with us.
(28:40):
We need to love ourselves rightwhere we're at, but love
ourselves so much we want tokeep growing too.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, and you can't speak a truth into them of what
you see if you're not, if theydon't feel comfortable and that
you already do love them.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Well, I have really enjoyedchatting with you and hearing
about intentional parenting andjust family and homeschool and
just so many things.
As we wrap up, what is yourfavorite Bible verse?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
or story.
I really, really love the storyof Esther.
I love her grit and hersurrender and understanding that
God was going to use her, eventhough she had no idea how that.
She believed and trustedtrusted that I also.
I really love the apostle Johnbecause he didn't leave Christ,
(29:29):
he stayed and he was with himthere till the very end.
He was also the youngest Yep, hewas also the youngest and of
the four gospels Matthew, mark,Luke and John John is my
favorite because of the wordsthat he uses and just like how
he describes things, so yeah,yeah, yeah, jesus gives kind of
(29:53):
Mary to him to take care ofwhile he's lying on the cross.
Yeah, john was just like hejust didn't leave, like I mean
he just was loyal and stayed,and I admired those qualities.
But Esther is probably one ofmy favorite stories too what are
you grateful for?
so super grateful for actually Ireally love living in Iowa,
(30:15):
central Iowa, our community, the.
I have some kids that havechosen to live around us.
In general all of the kids arecommitted to relational stuff,
so just my family in general.
I've had the blessing ofgetting to do some ministry in
Nicaragua for about 10 years.
(30:35):
It's kind of fading out just alittle bit because there's a lot
going on in the country, butintentional ministry.
I feel like I've been allowedto have some really special
relationships with people thathave lived in my house that
weren't my children and super,super grateful for the
opportunity to be able to dothat and to continue to love
them.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
How do you invite other people into your home?
Is that just who you are, orthat seems kind of difficult.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
You know, it was crazy when we did and I look
back on it and I'm like, wow,that was crazy.
I love hospitality, so that ispart of who I am for sure and
how I'm wired.
I really feel like it was ananswer to prayer, like I really
feel, um, the people that havelived with us.
It was very, very specificallythat they were meant to live
with us for a season becausethey needed our home environment
(31:25):
.
But also I can look at it nowand see, wow, I actually really
needed them for a lot of it wasfor them to be Christ to me in a
way that I didn't foresee and Iwas probably just honestly
following the promptings of theHoly Spirit where I just really
felt like God said hey, thisperson is supposed to live with
(31:45):
you, why don't you extend theinvitation?
So I think we've had maybe fiveor six people live with us.
One was a son-in-law that livedwith us for three years before
he started dating my daughter,and then another guy and I still
have a lot of relationship withhim and yeah, but just
sometimes it was just for maybea semester or summer.
I won't say I will say it's notfor everybody, but it is
(32:08):
something that I feel reallypassionate about opening my home
up to.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
So yeah, it sounds like you're.
You're very intentional, likeyou said, on mission and
wherever God takes you in allthese different directions.
That's really neat.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Thank you.
I would say for sure that thepeople that have lived with us
all felt like mission.
You know that that was part ofour family's mission at the time
was just to live with thesepeople.
You get to really know somebodywhen you live with them.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Oh yeah, Right Right.
What kindness have you shown orwhat kindness have you received
in the last week?
Speaker 2 (32:40):
So I had a really especially unique opportunity
this last week.
I was, I was at a cabin and Iannually I go to this cabin and,
um, just kind of take some timeto pray and walk, and I usually
invite another person in myfamily, like maybe one of my
daughters or son-in-law, to come.
There's a second cabin next tome.
(33:01):
My one of my daughters came andspent a whole day with me and
we just walked and walked andwalked and talked and walked and
talked.
It was just a huge gift.
And then she swapped out and herhusband came and he actually
stayed in the cabin for a coupleof nights.
He took me out to dinner onenight and paid for the whole
(33:22):
thing and it was just likeamazing.
It was so special and he boughtdessert and and we just had a
really, really special time.
So it was something he didn'thave to do, but he wanted to and
it was, yeah, it was reallyspecial.
So I'm kind of have coming offof a high from having a whole
(33:43):
week of just this specialretreat time and then special
time with a couple of my kids,which is my favorite thing to do
.
If I could just like rotatethrough every one of my kids and
my in-laws you know,sons-in-laws and daughter-in-law
and just take them away for acouple of days.
That's what I would do.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
That is so neat.
Well, thank you, for a coupleof days, that's what I would do.
That is so neat.
Well, thank you for being on,dawn.
I've loved our time togetherand I'm praying that it will
bless someone with just a myriadof different things that we got
to chat about.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
I enjoyed it.
Come back next week forOrdinary People, extraordinary
Things, where your story is Hisglory.
I hope that this episode hasbeen impactful for you and a
reminder at Ordinary People,extraordinary Things your story
is His glory, and so make yourstory known in order for His
glory to shine.
(34:39):
We do that with faith and hopewith every story that we hear.
We will be back in two weekswith a brand new episode.
In the meantime, check out allfive seasons of Ordinary People
Extraordinary Things and makesure to share it with your
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Thank you for making Ordinary People, extraordinary
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You are the best way for peopleto hear about Ordinary People,
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We are in 42 countries.
I cannot believe it.
(00:21):
Continue to share.
Continue to share with peopleall over the world, in your own
city and the country where weremember that, at Ordinary
People, extraordinary Things,your story is His glory.
Welcome to Ordinary People,extraordinary Things.
I'm here with Dawn Dawn, thankyou so much for being on.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you for having me.
I'm delighted to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
And we got in touch with each other because of my
sister-in-law, jenny, so thankyou to her for having us connect
.
Yeah, if someone doesn't knowwho you are, dawn, can you give
three words or phrases todescribe yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Well, I'm very persistent.
I would say that I'm loyal andthat I really like to ask
questions and research and kindof study people.
So but basically I'm just.
I mean I'm married and I havenine kids ages 30 to 13.
(01:19):
And I homeschool and we live onan acreage in the middle of.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Iowa.
How many acres do you have?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
We just have a couple acres, but our land connects
and kind of butts up to my, mydad's and then my brother's, and
so we're in the middle of thisbeautiful area in central Iowa
though.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
So, oh, that's so wonderful, that's amazing.
So when we got to chat, we weretalking about intentional
parenting.
It's kind of where we're goingwith ours.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
What does that mean, or what does that mean to you?
Well, so I made a few notes andwhen I was thinking about
what's the first thing thatcomes to my mind, when I think
about what I mean withintentional parenting, it's this
never ending process ofpursuing the hearts of my
children and studying them, andknowing that that is that's
(02:18):
always changing and with ninekids, you know I have very
different personalities, butit's like this, this diligent
commitment to pursuing andknowing them by studying them,
and which I believe personallythat it is.
It's part of our responsibility, you know, a God given
(02:40):
responsibility, to really knowthe hearts of our children so
that we can accompany them intheir strengths and weaknesses
and cheerlead them well and thenalso disciple and discipline
them well that's good.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Have you always been intentionally parenting or have
you always had this focus or thethese words?
Or is it somewhat?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
no, no, I would say from the beginning that I went
at it with I'm going to kind ofbe all in, you know, I'm going
to really know the hearts of mykids.
Now, that being said, with ninekids and 17 years, there were
seasons at it that I can see, oh, wow, you can tell I had a new
(03:24):
baby, or I was pregnant, or Imean I was either pregnant or
breastfeeding for almost 20years straight, and so there was
a lot of physical exhaustion.
But what I say, that I havebeen committed to the abilities
that I had during differentseasons for being very
intentional.
Yes, I would say that I've justknown my whole life, that I
(03:46):
wanted to have a large familyand that I just, I really wanted
to know the hearts of my kids.
As, that being said, I wouldalso say that how I thought that
would look when I was in mytwenties is very different than
how it has ended up in my 50s,because I'm I'm still learning
(04:06):
more all the time what thatmeans, and the deeper that you
go into the heart of anyone inany relationship, you know you
find more things and discovermore things, but you also end up
realizing how very little youknow.
You're humbled by the process.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Do you give yourself grace for that, or does it
frustrate you to think I didn'tdo that with this kid and I did
this with this one, but couldn'tdo it with this one?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So um, I think that when you have a large family
actually I'm going to changethat.
I think with any familysituation, we really need to go
into it with an understandingthat it's not always going to
look the same, because it's notsupposed to be the same.
It's not about fair, it's aboutwhat they need, and so each kid
(04:58):
is going to have differentneeds depending upon their right
, their age, their season, whatthey're growing up in.
My 13, I have seven daughtersand two sons.
My oldest is 30, a son, andthen my youngest is 13, a son.
Now my 13 year old is going toneed very different things.
Some of the same thingsfoundational, right, that all
(05:20):
kids need to be seen and secureand really soothed and all of
that attachment stuff.
But my son, my oldest son hedidn't have a smartphone until
he was 19.
Like, there wasn't even all ofthat.
He didn't have to know how tonavigate that.
So my younger son is going toneed different things from me
(05:41):
than his brother.
So it's not supposed to looklike a cookie cutter, but I have
certain kids that would that.
That's hard with seeing.
Oh wow, these younger kids aregetting a very different life.
It's not so hard, you know forthem as it was for us, or I
don't know.
There can be discontent in thetribe here and there, but as far
as for me, I think I wentthrough a period of time where I
(06:04):
thought, oh my gosh, I'm doingthings different.
Am I going to scar my childrenfor life?
And then I don't know.
I kind of wrestled with it someand realized, wait a minute, I
am supposed to be different.
I am very different parent.
It's some of it's good.
I mean, I should have somelived wisdom.
And then, like you said, I dogive myself grace now, better
(06:26):
than I probably did five yearsago.
But yes, that's an ever-growingprocess, though, isn't it when
we're always continually tryingto give ourselves grace?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, that's a good point.
What about the expectation ofnot feeling like you're doing
enough, either in parenting orhomeschooling?
I homeschool our kids too, butI think it can go with
homeschooling or not.
But you're always wondering,okay, this person's doing that,
maybe we should.
This person's doing that,they're in that sport or this or
(06:57):
this, and am I doing enough?
Should I change how I'mteaching?
Should I change a myriad ofthings?
What would you say to that?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
One of the things that I say to my older daughters
.
I have three daughters that aremarried and two of them have
children, and I can already seethis, this the society we live
in has way too many choices.
I mean when I first startedhomeschooling, for example,
there were like three choices inmath book, you know.
I mean so that some of it is wehave too many choices.
(07:28):
I would say trust your instinct, you're the mom you know best.
Just because Susie is, you know, doing violin and Japanese or
whatever, doesn't mean you haveto, and that it's really not
about raising a well-roundedchild, which is one of my least
favorite statements, becausethat really isn't the goal.
(07:50):
The reason I don't like thatstatement is because it's it's
subjective and it's based uponone person's definition of what
well, well-rounded means, andthat's actually not our goal,
but shouldn't be our goal ifwe're Christ followers.
It's, basically, are weteaching our kids to love Jesus?
And so that's going to lookdifferent because of my
(08:12):
strengths are different thanyour strengths, but I think it's
okay to say no.
I'm a huge fan of Brene Brown.
She does a whole bunch of stuff.
She's like a social therapistkind of, all that kind of stuff,
but she she said, choosediscomfort over resentment was
one of her phrases on how tolike, how to say no.
(08:34):
Well, and I thought, oh, that'sso good, you know, like in the
moment, just saying no tocertain things, and sometimes we
need to do that even to ourkids.
But a lot of times we just getasked to be involved in things
or whatever.
The best homeschooling adviceanyone gave me years ago was, at
the end of the day, just read,read to your kids.
(08:56):
You're having a baby.
Things are crazy, you know theeveryone in the house is sick.
Just read, because that'srelational.
And then if you ask my kids,what do you remember most,
they're gonna say the books weread together.
We know when we cried in thegreat stories.
You know that's.
That's what they're gonnaremember.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
So and if they learn to read, then they should be
able to pick up almost anythingthey need to.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, you know, and exactly if we.
But it's not just learning toread, I think it's loving
reading.
So when they see that they can,that you love reading and that
we read together and there'sthis relational aspect, I do
think it spills over and canallow them to have that same
love for reading.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, you said you don't like the word well-rounded
.
Is it because it's totallysubjective?
Or do you think it means thatyou have to be in this and this
and this and this and this?
What do you think the wordmeans?
I think, when most people sayit.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I think that it's not necessarily a liberal arts
education.
I think it means more that theywant their kids to be in all
kinds of activities and I thinkat the end of the day, our kids
get really tired and they reallyneed way more downtime than
we're giving them time toprocess, time to have those
spontaneous conversations thatsimply aren't going to happen
(10:24):
when they're exhausted.
Especially, teenagers reallyare not getting enough sleep.
They're not getting enough ofthat time where you just have we
call it in our house carefreetimelessness, where you just
kind of waste time together butit's intentional, but yet it
also leaves room, room for, youknow, spontaneity in there.
(10:46):
I value that.
I also value play and playingtogether and then you know,
ideally, encouraging thatcreativity that only comes from
a certain amount of downtime.
And I think, well-rounded whenmost people mean it mean, uh, an
overabundance of activities,that you're just not going to
(11:08):
convince me that those are allas fruitful as I think people
believe they are.
Twice a year I have for years Ihave asked myself and gone
through all of our activitiesand said is this activity or a
group or whatever?
Does it have eternalsignificance?
Is this helping my child growin their love for others and God
(11:35):
, and if it's not, then it kindof gets put on the chopping
block, you know, and it goes onprobation a little bit and then
maybe six months later I canjust get rid of it.
So just things like that that'sintentional to me is
continually looking at ourschedule and evaluating is this
(11:57):
really fruitful?
for this child for our familyand then, if it's not, then you
can just say you know thatworked for a season and it's not
working anymore, and being okaywith that.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah.
Do you think that's difficultIs we've talked about phases of
our life, yeah, yeah, superdifficult.
What are some things that youhad at phases of your life that
you don't have, that were really, really, really wonderful at
that time, but it just doesn'twork?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
So my kids, the first four, five, five kids were
super involved in 4-H.
I don't know, are you familiarwith that?
Yes, yeah, yeah.
So we were all in.
Then we started to get involvedmy high schoolers in mission
work in Nicaragua and I couldn'tmanage helping with both
because I was running missiontrips in Nicaragua for my high
(12:53):
school kids and their friendsessentially, and we did that for
about 10 years.
So 4-H was about 10 or 12 yearsand then we kind of faded into
Nicaragua being more of where weput, like that, you know, like
that mission kind of just theout of the house kind of energy,
like that.
You know, like that missionkind of just the out of the
(13:14):
house kind of energy.
And right now I have a lot ofthat energy is going into local
stuff and I have kids kind ofgetting married and scattering
and having kids, and so we'reputting a lot of energy into
those kinds of relationships.
So these younger four kids thatare at home are helping watch
their nephews.
I have seven grandsons and onegranddaughter and so they're
(13:36):
getting to help, you know, withthat kind of relationship.
So, yeah, I mean I think beingokay with saying you know what
it's going to look different asthe needs of our family change.
And then, but yet, trying asmuch as we're able to kind of be
all in for whatever it is thatwe're doing, we're teaching our
kids and important to you know,stay with something for a while,
(13:59):
but then also, at the same time, constantly evaluating is there
good from this?
Are my kids looking forward tothis?
Is this pulling us closertogether?
And then, boy, it can be reallyhard to stop something or try
to, you know, kind of phase outof it.
But every time we have, um, youknow, like a few weeks later
(14:20):
the kids will be like wow, it is, I'm so glad we're taking a
break now from that activity oror whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
So that's good.
That's good.
Do you think we get exhaustedtrying to fit in?
I sometimes still get the I'm?
Homeschooling has become reallypopular now.
I'm sure it wasn't when youstarted, but I still get the
thing of.
Well, don't you?
You don't want your kids to beweird for me.
(14:49):
I don't want them to be likeweird, but I want them to be
weird For me.
I don't want them to be likeweird, but I want them to be
different.
I don't want them to write looklike the rest of the world and
exactly what.
Do you have any thoughts onthat?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I've always felt really strongly.
I was raised in a home wherefitting in was never the goal
and actually the language weshould look different was used,
and so that feels very familiarto me.
My mom threw the TV away when Iwas 12.
And so I always kind of I grewup kind of like knowing that
(15:22):
we're the only ones without a TVand maybe feeling a little left
out, but being really, reallygrateful in the end for
understanding what it means tojust focus your energy on not
fitting in, and that that isactually biblical in a lot of
ways.
But it is very, very exhaustingto feel like you're always
(15:42):
going against the grain.
You know there are times whenyou know it is a lot of work.
Yeah, fitting in is is is hardto, even amongst our peers, you
know.
As moms, you know, we alwayskind of want to have like a few
people, a tribe, you know, orwhatever people that we feel
like where we belong and thatcan sometimes change through
(16:04):
different seasons too.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Do you find that that's, that's the same as
phasing out of different things,or because it's more relational
.
It's a little bit moredifficult when, when friendships
and those kind of things phaseout or in.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I feel like I'm in this unique place where I have
married kids and still kids athome and I'm still homeschooling
and I don't have very manypeople in my life that you know,
know, I can necessarily relateto and, honestly, I don't have a
ton of time and because I'm sointentional and committed in
general, like I and all in, Ihave a son-in-law who taught me
(16:42):
the phrase he'd rather have fourquarters than a hundred pennies
when it comes to friends andI'm, I'm so like him in that way
.
I'd rather have just a fewpeople that are like super,
really loyal and that know mewell and stuff, than a hundred.
I don't actually have socialmedia anymore, partly because I
just felt like it was gettinglike five years ago I got rid of
(17:02):
it.
It just felt like it wasgetting more and more watered
down.
Not that I was ever super intoit, because I honestly, I don't
have a ton of time for it withjust all of the relationships
around me.
But yeah, I think, as women, ifthere was one thing this is a
little bit off topic but ifthere was like one thing that I
could say to the church boy wereally need to be helping women
(17:26):
is as understanding all thethings that go on with menopause
and how that changes like whatwe need as women from other
women.
Because I really feel like Iwent through this period of time
where, like the hormones wereand the lack of hormones and
whatever, and just honestly forme, not having children anymore
(17:47):
and having that identity shift.
Two of my sons-in-laws werekind of really involved in my
house.
One actually lived with us fora while before he started dating
my daughter and so like I kindof got had this shift of
relationships and I wish therehad been some accompaniment with
that like or maybe a little bitmore understanding of the fact
(18:09):
that I was going to needdifferent things.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, why do you think they don't talk about it?
Is it because every woman willgo through it at if they live
long enough?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
That is an excellent question, maybe because it does
change for a woman to a womanand her needs.
I think we don't talk enoughabout midlife crisis and those,
those kinds of things, becauseit's kind of awkward and it's
super vulnerable, like it'ssuper, super vulnerable to say,
wow, I got things going oninside me that this isn't what I
(18:42):
thought it was going to looklike.
And I'm talking about, you know, from a biblical perspective of
understanding, that you know,just cause I can't have babies
anymore Doesn't mean I'm a mom.
You know, like I actuallyreally struggled with that and
really had to, you know, talk tomyself and like, yeah, I just I
really went through a period oftime where that was really hard
(19:04):
for me that having thatidentity change, maybe like the
shift I mean I don't think it'sbeing addressed in the way that
maybe it could be to be apositive.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
So yeah, I hear what you're saying.
I would probably assume thatit's just that we're not very
good at actually beingvulnerable with each other.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I think I'm actually pretty good at it myself, but I
think I'm a pursuer of otherpeople and so sometimes I went
through this period of timewhere I really needed to be
pursued, and so a lot ofpeople's it's not their default.
And so I think in general, ingeneral as a society we're
(19:44):
becoming, we're we're actuallyreally struggling to be pursuers
.
I think God kind of gives somepeople a certain gift to be, you
know, a little more adventurousin the pursuing department, but
I still think that as a culturewe don't tend to pursue people,
and because it is vulnerablefor sure.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
And do you?
What do you mean by pursue,like, try to get people to go
deeper?
Ask another question is thatwhat you're?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
there's a book I read years ago, um, it's called the
seven levels of intimacy byMatthew Kelly, and he talks
about you know, most people kindof settle at three, and he's
not talking about intimacy, onlylike within the marriage, like
he's just talking about friendsand what is it like to like have
(20:36):
like a real tried and truefriend?
And you know, there's, there'sa lot of stuff that you, you
know, you go through.
That's the hard stuff, you know, and that's the sharing of the
dreams and the hopes and, um,that kind of stuff.
That is what has to happen forthose friendships to develop, um
and get deeper.
One of the things that I, goingback to the intentional
(20:56):
parenting too, is that I reallykind of made this commitment
that I was going to try reallyhard how to figure out as a
parent, how to move fromauthority to influence with my
older kids.
Not that I wanted to be BFFswith all of my kids, because you
know there's different dynamicsin how that would work.
Not that I wanted to be BFFswith all of my kids, because you
know there's different dynamicsin how that would work, but
(21:16):
that I would offer it and then Iwould try really hard on my
part to have those side by siderelationships with them and so
moving from authority to justlike influence as a friend would
influence another friend.
There's a lot of fruit fromthat in my life that I I've seen
.
But that, once again, thatthere's a lot of fruit from that
in my life that I've seen.
But once again that also takes alot of work.
You know we're not limitless inour ability to be vulnerable.
(21:40):
You know we have to get filledback up.
I think I've noticed for me inmy 50s and late 40s I'm 54, I
need more silence and solitudeto kind of refresh me and and
kind of fill me back up to goout into the world again and be
vulnerable, whether it be withmy kids, my husband or friends,
(22:01):
like it.
Just I need something differentthan I used to.
I used to, honestly, for about20 years, a nap and a clean
kitchen pretty much solved allof my problems.
It's not that way anymore.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Are there any tidbits you can give on what you were
talking about the authority toinfluence and when about would
you start that with yourchildren?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
That's a really great question.
Like I said, I like to study mykids.
I think with each kid itchanges.
There's having thisavailability for our kids,
especially in high school.
I think it's just so importantto not assume that just because
our kids are moody or all overthe place, that they still don't
really need us in a differentway.
(22:44):
I think it requires us tochange our mindset on what
that's gonna look like and besuper flexible and know that one
day, one minute, they're gonnaneed mom and the next they're
gonna.
Just they wanna be likeindependent, but they're not
quite ready.
They don't really know whatthat looks like.
They just flip flop back andforth for years.
(23:05):
Honestly, and somepersonalities do it more than
others.
My advice would be to be patientand but but don't give up.
Ask questions, listen really,really well.
There was a period of timewhere my son, my oldest, would.
I would say, hey, what's up?
You seem like something'sbothering you, and he would be
(23:25):
like, no, I'm fine, and I wouldjust go in his room and I would
sit and like crochet, a blanketor something and just like hang
out, and it would be when maybeall of his siblings were in bed.
The house was quiet and sooneror later, if I was patient
enough, almost always a subjectwould come up or something that
he really needed to talk aboutor he would choose to share.
(23:46):
But teenagers don't shareunless they know they're going
to be uninterrupted.
And so in a house like my house, where I was very, very busy, I
had to really intentionallycreate that space where they
would know that they would getme uninterrupted.
So one-on-one time, that wouldbe a huge recommend.
I still do it Like I'm still tryand single people out because
(24:11):
they're going to be differentand they're going to be more
relaxed, and that's saying Icare about you as an individual,
which is what friend time isright.
It's being singled out byanother person and then just
really listening to them and doand creating activities and
doing things where I know I'mnot going to have to make any
(24:32):
decisions for them, like askingthem what do you want to do?
If, what are you thinking?
And then not saying, oh my gosh, that's the dumbest thing ever,
even in your mind, if you'rethinking, oh, wow, just really
respecting them and respectingthat they're going to have very
different thoughts and ideasthan you, and and delighting in
that, saying wow, that is socool.
(24:54):
What a great idea.
Delight is actually one of myfavorite words.
One of my son-in-laws teases meabout that, but I think that's
how God looks at us.
I think he looks at us and justsays you're so amazing.
Like I just can't, can't getover how awesome.
And he delights in us and andso he wants us to delight in
these kids that he's given us.
(25:15):
You know, and we're we're beinggiven them and they're on loan,
you know they're not ours.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Oh, that's so good.
What I hear you saying is thatyour ministry starts at home.
It's kind of what it feels likeit's boiling down to a lot.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
I have a piece of wood in our dining room that's
six feet long and it says alwaysmission, and it's right next to
our kitchen table and it'sthere to remind me, yeah, that
the mission starts at home, forsure.
That's amazing.
When it comes to discipline,one of the my least favorite
phrases is because I said so andthat's because there's no why
(25:50):
in it.
And if you really want yourkids to understand something and
honestly respond in obedience,they really need to know the why
, which means you need to knowthe why.
So I just I think that's really, really important that, as a
parent, intentional parentingstarts with knowing our own
story.
(26:11):
I also think that every personat some point has to forgive
their parents for being humanand forgive yourself for being
human.
And then a lot of people don'tdo this, nancy, and so you go
through life, maybe feelingangry or frustrated or whatever,
and maybe not even realizing it, but, just like you were saying
(26:31):
at the beginning, givingourselves grace.
But that happens when werealize our humanness and we we
get comfortable with it and werealize, you know, this is, this
is all good.
So I think we get that way alsowhen we know ourselves.
I heard somewhere someone saythat you can't love other people
any more than you love yourself, and I think that really comes
(26:54):
from knowing our identity as ason or daughter in Christ first,
and once you know that that'syour foundation, then that helps
you become a better parent, abetter friend, whatever no, I
like that about the articulatingthe why.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I think that that's important for me, specifically
in raising our children and thenin homeschooling, because when
there's a million things thatcome out at you, you to make a
decision of are we going to dothis, are we going to add this,
are we going to subtract this?
If I know why I am doing it,then it helps.
(27:33):
Yes, no maybe.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Well, and involving your children in that process
too, like, why do you think weshould keep this or get rid of
this?
It just it shows them so muchlove when we respect their
opinions and their thoughts andhonestly understand.
They're given to us as a giftand partly because they're going
to be different from us, likethey're supposed to teach us
(27:58):
something by their differentstrengths and weaknesses than
ours, and so yeah, that's a goodpoint.
I think that our world todayisn't very.
We don't have a naturaltendency to speak kindness to
ourselves the way we would toother people.
So one of the things I feellike I tell my daughters a lot
(28:20):
is is you know, I just try, Iwant to, I so want to be their
biggest cheerleader my sons too.
I really want them to know thatI believe in them right where
they're at, but that I love themso much I want them to keep
growing as well.
And so there's that happymedium, you know, but it's the
same with us.
(28:40):
We need to love ourselves rightwhere we're at, but love
ourselves so much we want tokeep growing too.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, and you can't speak a truth into them of what
you see if you're not, if theydon't feel comfortable and that
you already do love them.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Well, I have really enjoyedchatting with you and hearing
about intentional parenting andjust family and homeschool and
just so many things.
As we wrap up, what is yourfavorite Bible verse?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
or story.
I really, really love the storyof Esther.
I love her grit and hersurrender and understanding that
God was going to use her, eventhough she had no idea how that.
She believed and trustedtrusted that I also.
I really love the apostle Johnbecause he didn't leave Christ,
(29:29):
he stayed and he was with himthere till the very end.
He was also the youngest Yep, hewas also the youngest and of
the four gospels Matthew, mark,Luke and John John is my
favorite because of the wordsthat he uses and just like how
he describes things, so yeah,yeah, yeah, jesus gives kind of
(29:53):
Mary to him to take care ofwhile he's lying on the cross.
Yeah, john was just like hejust didn't leave, like I mean
he just was loyal and stayed,and I admired those qualities.
But Esther is probably one ofmy favorite stories too what are
you grateful for?
so super grateful for actually Ireally love living in Iowa,
(30:15):
central Iowa, our community, the.
I have some kids that havechosen to live around us.
In general all of the kids arecommitted to relational stuff,
so just my family in general.
I've had the blessing ofgetting to do some ministry in
Nicaragua for about 10 years.
(30:35):
It's kind of fading out just alittle bit because there's a lot
going on in the country, butintentional ministry.
I feel like I've been allowedto have some really special
relationships with people thathave lived in my house that
weren't my children and super,super grateful for the
opportunity to be able to dothat and to continue to love
them.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
How do you invite other people into your home?
Is that just who you are, orthat seems kind of difficult.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
You know, it was crazy when we did and I look
back on it and I'm like, wow,that was crazy.
I love hospitality, so that ispart of who I am for sure and
how I'm wired.
I really feel like it was ananswer to prayer, like I really
feel, um, the people that havelived with us.
It was very, very specificallythat they were meant to live
with us for a season becausethey needed our home environment
(31:25):
.
But also I can look at it nowand see, wow, I actually really
needed them for a lot of it wasfor them to be Christ to me in a
way that I didn't foresee and Iwas probably just honestly
following the promptings of theHoly Spirit where I just really
felt like God said hey, thisperson is supposed to live with
(31:45):
you, why don't you extend theinvitation?
So I think we've had maybe fiveor six people live with us.
One was a son-in-law that livedwith us for three years before
he started dating my daughter,and then another guy and I still
have a lot of relationship withhim and yeah, but just
sometimes it was just for maybea semester or summer.
I won't say I will say it's notfor everybody, but it is
(32:08):
something that I feel reallypassionate about opening my home
up to.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
So yeah, it sounds like you're.
You're very intentional, likeyou said, on mission and
wherever God takes you in allthese different directions.
That's really neat.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Thank you.
I would say for sure that thepeople that have lived with us
all felt like mission.
You know that that was part ofour family's mission at the time
was just to live with thesepeople.
You get to really know somebodywhen you live with them.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Oh yeah, Right Right.
What kindness have you shown orwhat kindness have you received
in the last week?
Speaker 2 (32:40):
So I had a really especially unique opportunity
this last week.
I was, I was at a cabin and Iannually I go to this cabin and,
um, just kind of take some timeto pray and walk, and I usually
invite another person in myfamily, like maybe one of my
daughters or son-in-law, to come.
There's a second cabin next tome.
(33:01):
My one of my daughters came andspent a whole day with me and
we just walked and walked andwalked and talked and walked and
talked.
It was just a huge gift.
And then she swapped out and herhusband came and he actually
stayed in the cabin for a coupleof nights.
He took me out to dinner onenight and paid for the whole
(33:22):
thing and it was just likeamazing.
It was so special and he boughtdessert and and we just had a
really, really special time.
So it was something he didn'thave to do, but he wanted to and
it was, yeah, it was reallyspecial.
So I'm kind of have coming offof a high from having a whole
(33:43):
week of just this specialretreat time and then special
time with a couple of my kids,which is my favorite thing to do
.
If I could just like rotatethrough every one of my kids and
my in-laws you know,sons-in-laws and daughter-in-law
and just take them away for acouple of days.
That's what I would do.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
That is so neat.
Well, thank you, for a coupleof days, that's what I would do.
That is so neat.
Well, thank you for being on,dawn.
I've loved our time togetherand I'm praying that it will
bless someone with just a myriadof different things that we got
to chat about.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
I enjoyed it.
Come back next week forOrdinary People, extraordinary
Things, where your story is Hisglory.
I hope that this episode hasbeen impactful for you and a
reminder at Ordinary People,extraordinary Things your story
is His glory, and so make yourstory known in order for His
glory to shine.
(34:39):
We do that with faith and hopewith every story that we hear.
We will be back in two weekswith a brand new episode.
In the meantime, check out allfive seasons of Ordinary People
Extraordinary Things and makesure to share it with your
friends and family that will beimpacted by this podcast.
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