January 19, 2025 • 23 mins
What happens when you mix resilience, faith, and the power of forgiveness? Join us as we welcome Havva, a talented songwriter and singer from England, who shares her inspiring journey from a strict Muslim upbringing to finding her own way. At just 16, Havva ran away from home, facing a harsh reality on the streets filled with struggles like drugs and violence. Yet, her story is one of hope, as she speaks candidly about the complex process of reconciliation with her family and the emotional aftermath of her father's passing in 2018.
We also delve into the often isolating journey of faith and transformation. Havva's story intertwines with themes of finding solace in spiritual communities while grappling with personal doubt and loneliness. Through her experiences, we explore the profound impact of believing in something greater than oneself, which can provide a sense of peace and purpose during life's trials. With heartfelt anecdotes about healing, forgiveness, and the power of compassion, this episode is a testament to the enduring spirit of overcoming adversity and the journey toward peace.
Havva’s book:📚
https://www.amazon.com/Voice-Turning-Pain-into-Power/dp/B0DQJMCNQS
Connect with Havva @havvaofficial on Instagram & @havvaofficial_ on TikTok
https://generationstogenerations.com/podcast
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Ordinary People Extraordinary Things.
I'm so glad that you're hereToday.
We have our first internationalguest.
Her name is Hava and she comesto us from England and I can't
wait for you to hear her story.
Speaking of international, didyou know that we are in 49
countries In order to have morecountries join us or more people
(00:23):
in the United States orwherever you're listening to?
Please leave a review and giveus a five star wherever you are
listening?
Now, with the international, wedid have a little glitch every
once in a while, but I workedreally hard to get it as
seamless as possible and maybeyou won't even notice it, but I
(00:44):
just wanted to give you a headsup, but it is a fantastic
interview.
Hava has so much to share.
I can't wait for you to hear.
Without further ado, here'sHava.
Well, hava, welcome to OrdinaryPeople Extraordinary Things.
How are you today?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Hey, thank you for having me.
I appreciate it things.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
How are you today?
Hey, thank you for having me.
I appreciate it, and you arecoming from England and this is
our first international.
Ordinary People, extraordinaryThings, so I'm so excited about
that.
Oh, lucky me, I'm the first.
If people don't know who youare, can you give three words or
phrases to describe you?
um, honest loyal and resilientvery yes, yes, you're, you are.
(01:29):
I'm just gonna say you'refamous, you're a songwriter and
singer and you have a beautifulvoice.
Well, I think so and have some.
You have a gorgeous voice.
You're working on something inthe future, you said.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I am.
I've got a few songs.
I've already done them.
Actually it's just doing thefinal touches finding the right
people, the train that it needsto ride on.
Everything needs like amarketing machine figuring out
the right way to do that, butthe songs are done, so I'm
excited.
This is going to be like mynext leg of my, of my journey.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
That's so awesome and you have a book.
We'll make sure to link that inthe show notes.
I mean, you have such, a, sucha story.
We're going to have to kind ofcondense it.
Can you kind of explain alittle bit about your childhood
and then what brought you toknow Jesus?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
My childhood was not very good.
It was.
I don't have any happy memorieswhen I think about my childhood
.
I was born and raised in a verynot two streets, but a Muslim
religion, in a Muslim religionhousehold.
I was, you know, being woken upto fast and things like that
when I was just very, very young, like primary school things
like that.
But I never, nobody ever,taught me why and what I was
doing and what I was doing itfor literally my whole life.
(02:45):
Everything felt like punishmentand women are treated very
differently and my dad was quite.
He was quite heavy-handed withthe women thing and like I
wasn't allowed to go out, Iwasn't allowed to have friends,
I wasn't allowed to do anything,basically.
So everything just felt likesuffocating to me.
But I went with it like it was.
It was my environment, it wasmy household and then, as I got
to my teenage years, I reallyjust said no to everything.
You know, I didn't believe inanything kind of thing kind of.
(03:06):
I called myself spiritual,spent many years like that, and
then I had such a turbulentchildhood, went into.
I was, I ran away from home whenI was 16.
I was on the streets for acouple of years.
I then sorted myself out alittle bit, um, but I got too
heavily involved in all the badthings that come along with the
streets, like the drugs and thepeople and the violence and all
them kind of things there, but Idid get myself out, you know.
(03:27):
I got myself out and then Ispent the next sort of 10 years
probably trying to fix the first15 in my life and it was tough,
really tough, especially tryingto regroup with my family,
trying to re-establish arelationship with my mum and dad
, trying to get them to see theerrors of their ways and trying
to, you know, open their eyes towhat life is now and that
there's another way of doingthings and things like that,
(03:48):
which was a big choice that Ihad to make to come back and
actually do that.
And then religion didn't reallyplay a part in my life
throughout all that time.
In 2018, my dad passed away.
Um, he had a heart attack.
Real sudden, laughing andjoking one minute, went to bed
and had a heart attack, diedliterally in my little sister's
arms most horrific moment of mylife and I think I don't think
I'll ever get over it.
I don't think it's ever gonnafeel okay to me.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I was just gonna ask.
You said you don't think you'llever get over it.
Is it partly because you werekind of starting to mend things
and you didn't get to, or justbecause it was so, so quick?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
or I think I was cheated of saying goodbye to him
and so many things that there'sso many things I still had left
to do.
There's so many regrets that Icarry when it comes and I know
that they always say youshouldn't carry regrets but
there's so many regrets thatcomes when it comes to my dad
and I didn't get to say goodbyeto him and I think for that I
will always have a touch ofanger about it.
(04:43):
But there's also.
I still had so much to workthrough.
I wasn't a proper adult to beable to have the conversations
that I wanted to have.
You know, as a healed versionof myself, I still had a bit of
a chip on my shoulder.
There was still a little bit offriction between me and him.
There was still a lot of hatredfor the first God knows how
many years of my life of the waythat they treated me and stuff
like that my life, of the waythat they treated me and stuff
(05:05):
like that.
So I didn't get to a place offorgiveness before the man
passed away and because of thatI didn't get to have the
fulfillment and the and theconversations and the closure.
And you know not that, not thateverybody does get closure, but
there was just.
He became such an amazingversion of himself in like the
last five or six years of hislife.
He was the best dad ever andit's just.
It's sad that that was all Igot out of the entire
relationship with him and I Iknew at one point I always knew
(05:26):
for some reason that my dad wasgoing to die young just not that
young and I hit one of mybirthdays and I do remember
looking at him, thinking I'vetaken too long to forgive you,
and the thought kind of passedmy mind and I shut it out
because it was like quite anoverwhelming thought.
But, um, yeah, literally twoyears after that thought he died
and yeah, I still had too muchto work through with him, not
just and just the fact that he'smy dad, my life.
(05:47):
Without him especially adaddy's girl like I was life
feels incomplete, no matterwhere you turn about what you do
.
So the funeral was the finalstraw for me.
There was a lot of things.
There was about three or fourdifferent things that happened
on the funeral because I wasfemale, that I wasn't allowed to
do or join in or touch or therewas.
It was really traumatic, thefuneral on itself of your father
is traumatic enough, but therewas things that I went through
(06:08):
that day that absolutelydestroyed me and I said that was
the final straw for me.
I will always be respectful ofit because my mum is devout
Muslim and when we go tofunerals and stuff I will pray,
you know, I will cover my head,I'll do everything traditional,
as everyone does.
I will always be respectful toreligion because it's how I grew
and it's given me some keythings to life.
I took a different path and Iwas lost for about a year or two
(06:29):
and I actually my dream wasspiked, which was the beginning
of this, of this journey.
That happened and I was in sucha place about it because it was
people that I knew and someonesaid to me I want to come to
church.
And I said no, what am I goingto do in church?
What do you mean?
And he was like, just please,just come to church with me.
I said okay, because I wentafter god knows how much
confusion, went to the church,hated it, hated everything about
(06:51):
it, hated the way that thepastor spoke to me.
He really, really pushed meaway.
Everything that he did made mego.
I don't like you, I don't like.
Then I'm not here for it and Iwanted to walk out.
By our respect, I just didn't,you know.
I think that he did not realizethat what he was doing in in
what he was doing, I think hewas he was telling me all the
bad things about where I've comefrom and what I believe in, and
(07:11):
but it's too soon for me.
You're just basically puttingme down and you're putting my
family down and I was just, Ididn't like that.
So for some reason I didn'tquit, I didn't like the
experience.
And then a really close friendof mine I didn't realize that
his dad is actually a veryfamous bishop.
His name is Bishop WayneMalcolm.
I said to him hey, would youmind coming me coming to church?
I said like, but you know, likeI'm from Muslim background, is
everybody good?
He's like have a listen, I havea lot of Muslims that come to
(07:33):
my church.
You know people, even whenthey're fasting they come to the
church and stuff like that justcome.
And I felt like I was home forthe first time ever in my life
listening to that man speak.
It was like a spiritual fatherfor me and in some ways I guess
I was looking for a spiritualfather, because obviously I've
lost my father, you know.
But there was something aboutlistening to this man regularly
(07:54):
I did.
I traveled over an hour everySunday just to go and listen to
what he had to say and to breakthe bible down.
For me it wasn't.
It wasn't the way around.
If I found Jesus and then itwent, and then I found
Christianity if that makes senselike the Christianity part was
really hard for me to actuallyeven grasp.
It was hard for me to say Jesus.
It was hard for me to do any ofthe things.
It took a very, very long timeso I just never looked back.
(08:17):
After that there was a gaything that I was that was
missing from my life.
And then during this period oftime, so over this period of
time, I had what I only know nowto be a spiritual awakening.
So I was just in such a darkplace and I mean like I was in
bed every day, my phone was notbeing used, my phone was on the
other side of the room, peoplecould not get hold of me, I
(08:38):
wouldn't let anybody in thehouse, I wouldn't leave my house
, I couldn't even like get upand get in the shower.
Getting in the shower was toomuch effort for me.
Do you know what I mean?
It was just so hard for me thatI was in such a dark place and
I was grieving grief.
That is really important andhowever it manifested.
But I found myself on my kneesasking for forgiveness.
I found myself screaming and Imean screaming asking first it
(09:03):
was my dad for forgiveness, andthen it was my dad for
forgiveness, and then it wasasking God for forgiveness.
And whatever happened in mybedroom that day, literally
right here behind me, I can'texplain it.
It can only be the presenceitself off of my shoulders.
Whatever it was, it didn't feellike that anymore after that day
and that was the decider for me, that I was on the right path,
(09:24):
if that makes sense.
So, yeah, everything just feltright.
This is the thing.
There was certain terminologyto say certain things didn't
feel right, but things feltright, like where I was, the
people that I was with thecommunity, that I felt and then
it did cut out for a minute.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
For a minute there where you were talking about the
bible.
What did you say about thebible?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I said, it's the only thing that I read that ever
made sense to me.
All of it makes sense.
It's like you have the keys toall life within that one book
and I'm almost annoyed that Ithat I was raised without it.
Do you know what I mean?
Like there's so much knowledgein it, there's so many things
that you go through in life andthere are so many verses,
passages um, psalms.
There's so many things thatjust give you the keys to your,
(10:04):
to your mind, and it's just.
It's amazing how we're alwaysexternally looking for so many
things self-help books, allthese different things that
people are writing and peopleare doing and you, you can refer
to the bible for anything andif it doesn't make sense in the
bible, it's not gonna make sensein real life and what I tell
you is got is the key to life,is the answer to everything.
So it's great.
I don't want to make anyonefeel like you find jesus and
(10:26):
praise god, hallelujah, andeverything's like hunky-dory
from there.
It was great for a year.
It was really great for a year,and then the work really does
come in and then it's just likeyou're on your own, and this
path has been one of thetoughest of my life.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I love how you said that you felt at home.
That's how I felt when we firstwalked into the church that we
go to now.
It's just that's the only waythat I could describe it was it
felt like home.
So it's so interesting that youuse that same terminology.
You said that this part of yourjourney has been really hard.
Can you explain that a littlebit?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
The bigger your gift, the more the devil is going to
attack you.
I think that's the way that Ican put it.
When you are a person that hasan ordained path, or you're here
for a purpose, or you'resupposed to be doing something,
especially something that iscompletely the opposite to what
you thought you was meant to do,and your mind plays tricks on
you all the time, then you'vegot the outside struggles of you
(11:24):
lose friends, you lose a lot offriends and you lose a lot of
family and you lose a lot ofpeople because they just don't
understand what it is thatyou're doing.
And you lose a lot of familyand you lose a lot of people
because they just don'tunderstand what it is that
you're doing.
And it's fine that you don'tunderstand what I'm doing,
because if the vision wassupposed to be yours, god would
have put it into you.
They didn't.
They put it into me.
So I follow and I'm faithful towhat it is that I know that I'm
supposed to be doing.
But it's really tough because astime goes on, everything just
(11:47):
chips away at you and you don'teven recognize yourself.
You can't go back because youreyes are open now, so you can't
be the person that you wasbefore.
You can't even do those certainthings anymore because you
don't even enjoy them anymore.
You can't move.
You can't make it go faster,because everything has its
timing and everything moves atthe right time.
At the same time, you're losingthe things that you liked.
You don't like anymore.
(12:07):
The people that you werefriends with you're not friends
with anymore or they don't wantto be things anymore.
And you're just like in thistasteless part of life.
And then you're being attackedby different people continuously
all the time and people arebullying you, or people are
nasty to you, or people are meanto you, or the question of what
it is that you're doing, andit's just like I don't even know
the answer myself.
I just it's like a blind faiththing.
(12:28):
I just know that this is whatI'm supposed to be doing, so I'm
carrying on doing it becauseit's the only thing that feels
right.
But it's the only thing thatfeels right, and everything else
that used to feel right feelswrong.
So it gets real lonely and theisolation part is real Like the
isolation part is is reallyimportant as well, because
without the isolation andwithout the silence, you can't
hear what it is that you'resupposed to hear.
You can't even focus in the waythat you're supposed to focus
(12:51):
or get the strength to go downthe journeys and and tests and
stuff that you're going to godown.
But it is lonely, very, verylonely and there are a lot of
questions and there are a lot oftests of faith and stuff like
that.
And you do get to a point whereyou just think you feel so bad
and feel so negative inside me.
And I just spoke about this onTikTok.
He got such a huge response andI didn't expect it because it
(13:13):
was just me talking and I wascrying while I was talking
because I was just like I don'tknow whether I'm still doing the
right thing, because it doesn'tfeel good, and that's the part
that everybody gets to, the waythey're like, oh my god, this
doesn't feel good.
And because it doesn't feelgood, you want to stop, you want
to go back, you want to get tothe times where you was just
living your life, happy, golucky.
And it doesn't.
It's not always going to feelgood.
(13:33):
Sometimes it feels awful andsometimes it really hurts.
And then you think, god, whywould you put me in this
position?
Why would you do this to me.
If I'm, if I'm following whatit is that you want me to do,
why would you do this to me?
Why have you got me feeling sosad?
And they are the really reallytough moments that you gotta
through that was really good.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Well, you need to believe in something bigger than
yourself.
If you are, especially if youhave mental health problems and
you have an overthinker, anxiety, any of these things, if you
believe that you are the be alland end all and you don't have
anything external to give yourmind to, to pray, to speak to,
(14:12):
to manifest or just to, you know, have, have a, have, a comfort,
things that you can put yourfaith into, that will help you,
then you are going to fall andcrash and burn every single time
.
You don't have a get out clause.
This, what is what is giving me, is a get out clause when I
pray.
I've had to learn that when youpray, you release it, you
release the worry, you don'tworry about it anymore.
It's it's done, it is done,it's written, it's done, it's
finished, and I never had thatbefore.
(14:32):
So when I thought I was incontrol of everything, I thought
I was a mess, I'm a mess, I'm afailure.
Then you can imagine the spiralthat was in my mind all the
time, continuously.
So it's not easy for mewhatsoever.
It's not easy for me to havethis conversation with you and
be open.
The fact that I'm doing apodcast is wild to me because I
never used to speak about it inpublic before.
It's really tough for me.
It's really tough, you know,like my family.
(14:53):
I feel you feel like you'regoing against your family.
You feel like you're doingwrong because that's how you was
raised your whole life.
But it's really important to berespectful of yourself and I
think people get lost inenforcing what they think they
know and things like that ontoeveryone else and they don't
(15:14):
even realize that that in itselfis unchristlike, you think you,
you think that you're behavinglike a christian, but actually
it's unchristlike.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
What would you say to people who are resonating?
You just kind of talked aboutit very briefly.
I'm sure you share a lot morein your book about your
childhood and then being on thestreets.
What would you say to someonewho's resonating with yes, I, I
had a terrible childhood, or Iwas or am having an addiction
problem, um, some of thesethings that you um quickly
(15:37):
alluded to.
What would you, what would youshare with them?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
no one.
People don't really like theanswer to this and that's funny,
and I've had a conversationabout this with someone the
other day.
He was talking about somethingabout um in his characters in
his 40s mind, about something inhis character of this of this
day and age, and it comes fromwhen I was five and my mom did
this and all that lot.
And my answer to that well,you're in your 40s, you're not
(16:04):
five years old anymore.
After a certain age, I know,obviously, as a child, what you
go through and what you sufferand everything is out of your
hands and it's unfair and itshould never have happened.
But after a certain age,everything becomes your
responsibility, everything, howyou choose to feel when you're
an adult, given that you're notin the situation anymore, given
that you're not in theenvironment anymore.
I'm not saying that younecessarily have to forgive
(16:24):
people and keep them in yourlife If you want to cut them out
, if that's the way that youmove forward, that's absolutely
fine.
You are capable and you are incontrol of healing anything that
you want to heal.
You just have to understand andrecognize that, in order to
give yourself the permission todo it the whole time, that you
hold that blame and you holdthat anger and you hold that
revenge, you know, and thatagainst those people.
And I'm not saying I'm perfecthere, I'm not saying I've healed
(16:46):
myself of everything and Idon't ever have any anger or
anything like that, but thewhole time that you do that
you're just, you're justdestroying yourself, happen one
time or a few times, and thenthey don't happen every single
day for the rest of your life.
So the way that you carry itfor the rest of your life is
actually your responsibilitythat's really profound.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I think that forgiveness is so hard and it's
so interesting because offorgiveness, when you actually
do it, it actually helps youright.
It's not really about the otherperson, but it's such a
difficult thing well, theyalways say that, don't they?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
that forgiveness is not about the other person, it's
about yourself.
You don't need to speak to theother person just to forgive
them, but you do need to forgivethings, otherwise you will
become bitter, you will becomeangry.
There's a lot of people thatare walking around unhealed.
They're angry and they arebitter, and they are.
They do feel certain things,but it's not even anything in
the current stage of their lifeis from many, many years ago.
(17:39):
But there's nothing you can'tdo here today.
Because I wanted to be, Iwanted to get here, I wanted to
become this person.
I wanted to fix my relationshipwith my family.
I came back from the streets inorder do that.
I didn't want to be estrangedfrom my mum and dad, no more.
And we're talking about 10years of therapy after that.
We're talking about 10 years offighting, screaming, shouting,
smashing things, and it wasn'teasy, it wasn't overnight and it
(18:03):
wasn't fixed, but it was betterthan the alternative, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Thank you for being just so honest with that.
I've really enjoyed ourconversation.
Like I said, I'm going to linkyour book and all of your ways
for people to stay in touch withyou on social media and such,
but I always love to end withwhat is your favorite Bible
verse or story.
I know you said that the Biblejust has all the answers.
(18:28):
Is there anything that you canshare that might be one of your
favorites?
Speaker 2 (18:32):
It's Lamentations 28 through 30.
And it's basically about whenyou have anxiety, when you're
stressed, and it says when lifeis tough and hard to take, go
off on your own, be in silence,bow your head in prayer and wait
for hope to come.
And it really, really moved merecently.
(18:55):
Actually, I only discoveredthis one recently and I filmed
it so that I could post it.
I sent tears as I was saying itand it was just so like you
have the answer for everythinginside of you.
Stop looking for everythingexternally to go into the
silence.
Allow it to overcome you.
Allow yourself to actually feelthings.
Don't keep running away fromthings and distracting yourself
(19:16):
with things, with temporarypleasures and things like that.
Allow it to run through.
You trust yourself that you canactually, if you go into the
silence and pray and and waitfor an answer and just wait for
hope.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I don't think anyone has ever said Lamentations
before.
What a good book that getsoverlooked.
I know every section of it.
It's a little bit of a downer,but it has that hope in the
middle there.
But it's real, right, it's realand I feel like that's what
we're talking about in the Bible, and it's not just all like
(19:47):
that's what we're talking aboutthe bible and and it's and it's
not just all you know roses andsunshine, and I think that's
what makes what draws you in isis the realness of it.
What are you great?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
the bible is actually a uh, it's cut.
I'm grateful that I'm able,that I figured out how to be
kind to people that are notespecially within this journey
of um finding and being close toGod.
It's taught me a lot of mycharacter has changed a lot, and
I think being kind in adverse,in in times of adversity, is a
(20:21):
superpower, and I'm gratefulthat I'm actually able to figure
out how to do that now.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah, that's hard.
What kindness have you seen orwhat kindness have you given in
the last week?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Actually there was a homeless man that approached me
yesterday.
There's a lot of things there'snot so many nice people around
me at this moment in time and Itry and stay kind.
But this homeless manapproached me and he said can
you buy me a coffee?
And I said, yeah, sure I'll buyhim a coffee.
I'm an ambassador for a charitycalled SANE um and that's only
recent and he'd never heard ofit before and he was explaining
it was a professional golfer.
(20:55):
He's now homeless, living on thestreets.
You know his whole career'sgone just because of mental
health issues.
And it was just really nicejust to spend time with him.
I could see that everybody inthe coffee shop was looking at
me do you know what I mean?
As if to say, like what are youdoing?
And it was very strange thatpeople were even looking at me
like that.
It was very strange that nobodyelse bought him a coffee.
He lit up a little bit that Iactually gave him something that
(21:16):
and a group of people thatcould help him.
It was nice it was.
It was a nice 10-15 minuteswith this guy oh how nice.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
So you didn't even just give him money, you
actually spent some time and andtalked with them yeah, I bet
that.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, I think I think that was the the best for me.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah yeah, instead of just here's some money which
would be kind to actually say,hey, I see you and that's that's
amazing.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
And you know what's funny, he was telling me a
testimony about God.
He was God.
He was saying to me, like itwas really random, we were
talking, talking, talking andthen all of a sudden he started
telling me testimony and he saidthat, like he knows that God is
real because there's beenthings that he's prayed for,
like a pair of shoes.
He said, like God, if you'rereal, like give me, I want a
pair of shoes like that.
And he said shoes was there.
(22:04):
And I was like no, you've gotme.
I know you're real, I knowyou're real.
So it was so beautiful to seesomebody in such a bad condition
to be able he's smiling,telling me a testimony, telling
me that God is real, and he'snot like angry.
And if God was real, I wouldn'tbe in this situation.
Do you know what I mean?
He was actually trying toconfirm to me that God is real,
(22:26):
even though the environment thathe's in and the conditions that
he's living in it was reallysomething else.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah, oh, that's such a great story.
It's such a great story.
Well, I've loved chatting withyou and I just appreciate your
honesty and sharing your storyand I know that people are going
to really resonate with some ofthat.
I know that the loneliness andfeeling as far as you know God,
(22:54):
you know if you wanted me onthis journey, why is it so hard.
I really appreciate you sharingthat part of your story with us
.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me.
I hope people do resonate withit.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Well on Ordinary People, extraordinary Things.
Your story is his glory.
If this podcast has beeninspirational to you, please
share this podcast with anyonethat you think would really
enjoy it or really get somethingout of it.
It was jam-packed with so manyinsights.
Don't forget to follow us onFacebook, instagram and X, and
(23:27):
don't miss it.
In two weeks, we will be backwith Curtis Fry.
Yes, he was on our podcastearlier, but his story was so
amazing and so many of you lovedit that he's back for a
follow-up.
So don't miss it in two weeks.
We'll see you then.
Welcome to Ordinary People Extraordinary Things.
I'm so glad that you're hereToday.
We have our first internationalguest.
Her name is Hava and she comesto us from England and I can't
wait for you to hear her story.
Speaking of international, didyou know that we are in 49
countries In order to have morecountries join us or more people
(00:23):
in the United States orwherever you're listening to?
Please leave a review and giveus a five star wherever you are
listening?
Now, with the international, wedid have a little glitch every
once in a while, but I workedreally hard to get it as
seamless as possible and maybeyou won't even notice it, but I
(00:44):
just wanted to give you a headsup, but it is a fantastic
interview.
Hava has so much to share.
I can't wait for you to hear.
Without further ado, here'sHava.
Well, hava, welcome to OrdinaryPeople Extraordinary Things.
How are you today?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Hey, thank you for having me.
I appreciate it things.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
How are you today?
Hey, thank you for having me.
I appreciate it, and you arecoming from England and this is
our first international.
Ordinary People, extraordinaryThings, so I'm so excited about
that.
Oh, lucky me, I'm the first.
If people don't know who youare, can you give three words or
phrases to describe you?
um, honest loyal and resilientvery yes, yes, you're, you are.
(01:29):
I'm just gonna say you'refamous, you're a songwriter and
singer and you have a beautifulvoice.
Well, I think so and have some.
You have a gorgeous voice.
You're working on something inthe future, you said.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I am.
I've got a few songs.
I've already done them.
Actually it's just doing thefinal touches finding the right
people, the train that it needsto ride on.
Everything needs like amarketing machine figuring out
the right way to do that, butthe songs are done, so I'm
excited.
This is going to be like mynext leg of my, of my journey.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
That's so awesome and you have a book.
We'll make sure to link that inthe show notes.
I mean, you have such, a, sucha story.
We're going to have to kind ofcondense it.
Can you kind of explain alittle bit about your childhood
and then what brought you toknow Jesus?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
My childhood was not very good.
It was.
I don't have any happy memorieswhen I think about my childhood
.
I was born and raised in a verynot two streets, but a Muslim
religion, in a Muslim religionhousehold.
I was, you know, being woken upto fast and things like that
when I was just very, very young, like primary school things
like that.
But I never, nobody ever,taught me why and what I was
doing and what I was doing itfor literally my whole life.
(02:45):
Everything felt like punishmentand women are treated very
differently and my dad was quite.
He was quite heavy-handed withthe women thing and like I
wasn't allowed to go out, Iwasn't allowed to have friends,
I wasn't allowed to do anything,basically.
So everything just felt likesuffocating to me.
But I went with it like it was.
It was my environment, it wasmy household and then, as I got
to my teenage years, I reallyjust said no to everything.
You know, I didn't believe inanything kind of thing kind of.
(03:06):
I called myself spiritual,spent many years like that, and
then I had such a turbulentchildhood, went into.
I was, I ran away from home whenI was 16.
I was on the streets for acouple of years.
I then sorted myself out alittle bit, um, but I got too
heavily involved in all the badthings that come along with the
streets, like the drugs and thepeople and the violence and all
them kind of things there, but Idid get myself out, you know.
(03:27):
I got myself out and then Ispent the next sort of 10 years
probably trying to fix the first15 in my life and it was tough,
really tough, especially tryingto regroup with my family,
trying to re-establish arelationship with my mum and dad
, trying to get them to see theerrors of their ways and trying
to, you know, open their eyes towhat life is now and that
there's another way of doingthings and things like that,
(03:48):
which was a big choice that Ihad to make to come back and
actually do that.
And then religion didn't reallyplay a part in my life
throughout all that time.
In 2018, my dad passed away.
Um, he had a heart attack.
Real sudden, laughing andjoking one minute, went to bed
and had a heart attack, diedliterally in my little sister's
arms most horrific moment of mylife and I think I don't think
I'll ever get over it.
I don't think it's ever gonnafeel okay to me.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I was just gonna ask.
You said you don't think you'llever get over it.
Is it partly because you werekind of starting to mend things
and you didn't get to, or justbecause it was so, so quick?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
or I think I was cheated of saying goodbye to him
and so many things that there'sso many things I still had left
to do.
There's so many regrets that Icarry when it comes and I know
that they always say youshouldn't carry regrets but
there's so many regrets thatcomes when it comes to my dad
and I didn't get to say goodbyeto him and I think for that I
will always have a touch ofanger about it.
(04:43):
But there's also.
I still had so much to workthrough.
I wasn't a proper adult to beable to have the conversations
that I wanted to have.
You know, as a healed versionof myself, I still had a bit of
a chip on my shoulder.
There was still a little bit offriction between me and him.
There was still a lot of hatredfor the first God knows how
many years of my life of the waythat they treated me and stuff
like that my life, of the waythat they treated me and stuff
(05:05):
like that.
So I didn't get to a place offorgiveness before the man
passed away and because of thatI didn't get to have the
fulfillment and the and theconversations and the closure.
And you know not that, not thateverybody does get closure, but
there was just.
He became such an amazingversion of himself in like the
last five or six years of hislife.
He was the best dad ever andit's just.
It's sad that that was all Igot out of the entire
relationship with him and I Iknew at one point I always knew
(05:26):
for some reason that my dad wasgoing to die young just not that
young and I hit one of mybirthdays and I do remember
looking at him, thinking I'vetaken too long to forgive you,
and the thought kind of passedmy mind and I shut it out
because it was like quite anoverwhelming thought.
But, um, yeah, literally twoyears after that thought he died
and yeah, I still had too muchto work through with him, not
just and just the fact that he'smy dad, my life.
(05:47):
Without him especially adaddy's girl like I was life
feels incomplete, no matterwhere you turn about what you do
.
So the funeral was the finalstraw for me.
There was a lot of things.
There was about three or fourdifferent things that happened
on the funeral because I wasfemale, that I wasn't allowed to
do or join in or touch or therewas.
It was really traumatic, thefuneral on itself of your father
is traumatic enough, but therewas things that I went through
(06:08):
that day that absolutelydestroyed me and I said that was
the final straw for me.
I will always be respectful ofit because my mum is devout
Muslim and when we go tofunerals and stuff I will pray,
you know, I will cover my head,I'll do everything traditional,
as everyone does.
I will always be respectful toreligion because it's how I grew
and it's given me some keythings to life.
I took a different path and Iwas lost for about a year or two
(06:29):
and I actually my dream wasspiked, which was the beginning
of this, of this journey.
That happened and I was in sucha place about it because it was
people that I knew and someonesaid to me I want to come to
church.
And I said no, what am I goingto do in church?
What do you mean?
And he was like, just please,just come to church with me.
I said okay, because I wentafter god knows how much
confusion, went to the church,hated it, hated everything about
(06:51):
it, hated the way that thepastor spoke to me.
He really, really pushed meaway.
Everything that he did made mego.
I don't like you, I don't like.
Then I'm not here for it and Iwanted to walk out.
By our respect, I just didn't,you know.
I think that he did not realizethat what he was doing in in
what he was doing, I think hewas he was telling me all the
bad things about where I've comefrom and what I believe in, and
(07:11):
but it's too soon for me.
You're just basically puttingme down and you're putting my
family down and I was just, Ididn't like that.
So for some reason I didn'tquit, I didn't like the
experience.
And then a really close friendof mine I didn't realize that
his dad is actually a veryfamous bishop.
His name is Bishop WayneMalcolm.
I said to him hey, would youmind coming me coming to church?
I said like, but you know, likeI'm from Muslim background, is
everybody good?
He's like have a listen, I havea lot of Muslims that come to
(07:33):
my church.
You know people, even whenthey're fasting they come to the
church and stuff like that justcome.
And I felt like I was home forthe first time ever in my life
listening to that man speak.
It was like a spiritual fatherfor me and in some ways I guess
I was looking for a spiritualfather, because obviously I've
lost my father, you know.
But there was something aboutlistening to this man regularly
(07:54):
I did.
I traveled over an hour everySunday just to go and listen to
what he had to say and to breakthe bible down.
For me it wasn't.
It wasn't the way around.
If I found Jesus and then itwent, and then I found
Christianity if that makes senselike the Christianity part was
really hard for me to actuallyeven grasp.
It was hard for me to say Jesus.
It was hard for me to do any ofthe things.
It took a very, very long timeso I just never looked back.
(08:17):
After that there was a gaything that I was that was
missing from my life.
And then during this period oftime, so over this period of
time, I had what I only know nowto be a spiritual awakening.
So I was just in such a darkplace and I mean like I was in
bed every day, my phone was notbeing used, my phone was on the
other side of the room, peoplecould not get hold of me, I
(08:38):
wouldn't let anybody in thehouse, I wouldn't leave my house
, I couldn't even like get upand get in the shower.
Getting in the shower was toomuch effort for me.
Do you know what I mean?
It was just so hard for me thatI was in such a dark place and
I was grieving grief.
That is really important andhowever it manifested.
But I found myself on my kneesasking for forgiveness.
I found myself screaming and Imean screaming asking first it
(09:03):
was my dad for forgiveness, andthen it was my dad for
forgiveness, and then it wasasking God for forgiveness.
And whatever happened in mybedroom that day, literally
right here behind me, I can'texplain it.
It can only be the presenceitself off of my shoulders.
Whatever it was, it didn't feellike that anymore after that day
and that was the decider for me, that I was on the right path,
(09:24):
if that makes sense.
So, yeah, everything just feltright.
This is the thing.
There was certain terminologyto say certain things didn't
feel right, but things feltright, like where I was, the
people that I was with thecommunity, that I felt and then
it did cut out for a minute.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
For a minute there where you were talking about the
bible.
What did you say about thebible?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I said, it's the only thing that I read that ever
made sense to me.
All of it makes sense.
It's like you have the keys toall life within that one book
and I'm almost annoyed that Ithat I was raised without it.
Do you know what I mean?
Like there's so much knowledgein it, there's so many things
that you go through in life andthere are so many verses,
passages um, psalms.
There's so many things thatjust give you the keys to your,
(10:04):
to your mind, and it's just.
It's amazing how we're alwaysexternally looking for so many
things self-help books, allthese different things that
people are writing and peopleare doing and you, you can refer
to the bible for anything andif it doesn't make sense in the
bible, it's not gonna make sensein real life and what I tell
you is got is the key to life,is the answer to everything.
So it's great.
I don't want to make anyonefeel like you find jesus and
(10:26):
praise god, hallelujah, andeverything's like hunky-dory
from there.
It was great for a year.
It was really great for a year,and then the work really does
come in and then it's just likeyou're on your own, and this
path has been one of thetoughest of my life.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I love how you said that you felt at home.
That's how I felt when we firstwalked into the church that we
go to now.
It's just that's the only waythat I could describe it was it
felt like home.
So it's so interesting that youuse that same terminology.
You said that this part of yourjourney has been really hard.
Can you explain that a littlebit?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
The bigger your gift, the more the devil is going to
attack you.
I think that's the way that Ican put it.
When you are a person that hasan ordained path, or you're here
for a purpose, or you'resupposed to be doing something,
especially something that iscompletely the opposite to what
you thought you was meant to do,and your mind plays tricks on
you all the time, then you'vegot the outside struggles of you
(11:24):
lose friends, you lose a lot offriends and you lose a lot of
family and you lose a lot ofpeople because they just don't
understand what it is thatyou're doing.
And you lose a lot of familyand you lose a lot of people
because they just don'tunderstand what it is that
you're doing.
And it's fine that you don'tunderstand what I'm doing,
because if the vision wassupposed to be yours, god would
have put it into you.
They didn't.
They put it into me.
So I follow and I'm faithful towhat it is that I know that I'm
supposed to be doing.
But it's really tough because astime goes on, everything just
(11:47):
chips away at you and you don'teven recognize yourself.
You can't go back because youreyes are open now, so you can't
be the person that you wasbefore.
You can't even do those certainthings anymore because you
don't even enjoy them anymore.
You can't move.
You can't make it go faster,because everything has its
timing and everything moves atthe right time.
At the same time, you're losingthe things that you liked.
You don't like anymore.
(12:07):
The people that you werefriends with you're not friends
with anymore or they don't wantto be things anymore.
And you're just like in thistasteless part of life.
And then you're being attackedby different people continuously
all the time and people arebullying you, or people are
nasty to you, or people are meanto you, or the question of what
it is that you're doing, andit's just like I don't even know
the answer myself.
I just it's like a blind faiththing.
(12:28):
I just know that this is whatI'm supposed to be doing, so I'm
carrying on doing it becauseit's the only thing that feels
right.
But it's the only thing thatfeels right, and everything else
that used to feel right feelswrong.
So it gets real lonely and theisolation part is real Like the
isolation part is is reallyimportant as well, because
without the isolation andwithout the silence, you can't
hear what it is that you'resupposed to hear.
You can't even focus in the waythat you're supposed to focus
(12:51):
or get the strength to go downthe journeys and and tests and
stuff that you're going to godown.
But it is lonely, very, verylonely and there are a lot of
questions and there are a lot oftests of faith and stuff like
that.
And you do get to a point whereyou just think you feel so bad
and feel so negative inside me.
And I just spoke about this onTikTok.
He got such a huge response andI didn't expect it because it
(13:13):
was just me talking and I wascrying while I was talking
because I was just like I don'tknow whether I'm still doing the
right thing, because it doesn'tfeel good, and that's the part
that everybody gets to, the waythey're like, oh my god, this
doesn't feel good.
And because it doesn't feelgood, you want to stop, you want
to go back, you want to get tothe times where you was just
living your life, happy, golucky.
And it doesn't.
It's not always going to feelgood.
(13:33):
Sometimes it feels awful andsometimes it really hurts.
And then you think, god, whywould you put me in this
position?
Why would you do this to me.
If I'm, if I'm following whatit is that you want me to do,
why would you do this to me?
Why have you got me feeling sosad?
And they are the really reallytough moments that you gotta
through that was really good.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Well, you need to believe in something bigger than
yourself.
If you are, especially if youhave mental health problems and
you have an overthinker, anxiety, any of these things, if you
believe that you are the be alland end all and you don't have
anything external to give yourmind to, to pray, to speak to,
(14:12):
to manifest or just to, you know, have, have a, have, a comfort,
things that you can put yourfaith into, that will help you,
then you are going to fall andcrash and burn every single time
.
You don't have a get out clause.
This, what is what is giving me, is a get out clause when I
pray.
I've had to learn that when youpray, you release it, you
release the worry, you don'tworry about it anymore.
It's it's done, it is done,it's written, it's done, it's
finished, and I never had thatbefore.
(14:32):
So when I thought I was incontrol of everything, I thought
I was a mess, I'm a mess, I'm afailure.
Then you can imagine the spiralthat was in my mind all the
time, continuously.
So it's not easy for mewhatsoever.
It's not easy for me to havethis conversation with you and
be open.
The fact that I'm doing apodcast is wild to me because I
never used to speak about it inpublic before.
It's really tough for me.
It's really tough, you know,like my family.
(14:53):
I feel you feel like you'regoing against your family.
You feel like you're doingwrong because that's how you was
raised your whole life.
But it's really important to berespectful of yourself and I
think people get lost inenforcing what they think they
know and things like that ontoeveryone else and they don't
(15:14):
even realize that that in itselfis unchristlike, you think you,
you think that you're behavinglike a christian, but actually
it's unchristlike.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
What would you say to people who are resonating?
You just kind of talked aboutit very briefly.
I'm sure you share a lot morein your book about your
childhood and then being on thestreets.
What would you say to someonewho's resonating with yes, I, I
had a terrible childhood, or Iwas or am having an addiction
problem, um, some of thesethings that you um quickly
(15:37):
alluded to.
What would you, what would youshare with them?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
no one.
People don't really like theanswer to this and that's funny,
and I've had a conversationabout this with someone the
other day.
He was talking about somethingabout um in his characters in
his 40s mind, about something inhis character of this of this
day and age, and it comes fromwhen I was five and my mom did
this and all that lot.
And my answer to that well,you're in your 40s, you're not
(16:04):
five years old anymore.
After a certain age, I know,obviously, as a child, what you
go through and what you sufferand everything is out of your
hands and it's unfair and itshould never have happened.
But after a certain age,everything becomes your
responsibility, everything, howyou choose to feel when you're
an adult, given that you're notin the situation anymore, given
that you're not in theenvironment anymore.
I'm not saying that younecessarily have to forgive
(16:24):
people and keep them in yourlife If you want to cut them out
, if that's the way that youmove forward, that's absolutely
fine.
You are capable and you are incontrol of healing anything that
you want to heal.
You just have to understand andrecognize that, in order to
give yourself the permission todo it the whole time, that you
hold that blame and you holdthat anger and you hold that
revenge, you know, and thatagainst those people.
And I'm not saying I'm perfecthere, I'm not saying I've healed
(16:46):
myself of everything and Idon't ever have any anger or
anything like that, but thewhole time that you do that
you're just, you're justdestroying yourself, happen one
time or a few times, and thenthey don't happen every single
day for the rest of your life.
So the way that you carry itfor the rest of your life is
actually your responsibilitythat's really profound.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I think that forgiveness is so hard and it's
so interesting because offorgiveness, when you actually
do it, it actually helps youright.
It's not really about the otherperson, but it's such a
difficult thing well, theyalways say that, don't they?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
that forgiveness is not about the other person, it's
about yourself.
You don't need to speak to theother person just to forgive
them, but you do need to forgivethings, otherwise you will
become bitter, you will becomeangry.
There's a lot of people thatare walking around unhealed.
They're angry and they arebitter, and they are.
They do feel certain things,but it's not even anything in
the current stage of their lifeis from many, many years ago.
(17:39):
But there's nothing you can'tdo here today.
Because I wanted to be, Iwanted to get here, I wanted to
become this person.
I wanted to fix my relationshipwith my family.
I came back from the streets inorder do that.
I didn't want to be estrangedfrom my mum and dad, no more.
And we're talking about 10years of therapy after that.
We're talking about 10 years offighting, screaming, shouting,
smashing things, and it wasn'teasy, it wasn't overnight and it
(18:03):
wasn't fixed, but it was betterthan the alternative, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Thank you for being just so honest with that.
I've really enjoyed ourconversation.
Like I said, I'm going to linkyour book and all of your ways
for people to stay in touch withyou on social media and such,
but I always love to end withwhat is your favorite Bible
verse or story.
I know you said that the Biblejust has all the answers.
(18:28):
Is there anything that you canshare that might be one of your
favorites?
Speaker 2 (18:32):
It's Lamentations 28 through 30.
And it's basically about whenyou have anxiety, when you're
stressed, and it says when lifeis tough and hard to take, go
off on your own, be in silence,bow your head in prayer and wait
for hope to come.
And it really, really moved merecently.
(18:55):
Actually, I only discoveredthis one recently and I filmed
it so that I could post it.
I sent tears as I was saying itand it was just so like you
have the answer for everythinginside of you.
Stop looking for everythingexternally to go into the
silence.
Allow it to overcome you.
Allow yourself to actually feelthings.
Don't keep running away fromthings and distracting yourself
(19:16):
with things, with temporarypleasures and things like that.
Allow it to run through.
You trust yourself that you canactually, if you go into the
silence and pray and and waitfor an answer and just wait for
hope.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I don't think anyone has ever said Lamentations
before.
What a good book that getsoverlooked.
I know every section of it.
It's a little bit of a downer,but it has that hope in the
middle there.
But it's real, right, it's realand I feel like that's what
we're talking about in the Bible, and it's not just all like
(19:47):
that's what we're talking aboutthe bible and and it's and it's
not just all you know roses andsunshine, and I think that's
what makes what draws you in isis the realness of it.
What are you great?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
the bible is actually a uh, it's cut.
I'm grateful that I'm able,that I figured out how to be
kind to people that are notespecially within this journey
of um finding and being close toGod.
It's taught me a lot of mycharacter has changed a lot, and
I think being kind in adverse,in in times of adversity, is a
(20:21):
superpower, and I'm gratefulthat I'm actually able to figure
out how to do that now.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah, that's hard.
What kindness have you seen orwhat kindness have you given in
the last week?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Actually there was a homeless man that approached me
yesterday.
There's a lot of things there'snot so many nice people around
me at this moment in time and Itry and stay kind.
But this homeless manapproached me and he said can
you buy me a coffee?
And I said, yeah, sure I'll buyhim a coffee.
I'm an ambassador for a charitycalled SANE um and that's only
recent and he'd never heard ofit before and he was explaining
it was a professional golfer.
(20:55):
He's now homeless, living on thestreets.
You know his whole career'sgone just because of mental
health issues.
And it was just really nicejust to spend time with him.
I could see that everybody inthe coffee shop was looking at
me do you know what I mean?
As if to say, like what are youdoing?
And it was very strange thatpeople were even looking at me
like that.
It was very strange that nobodyelse bought him a coffee.
He lit up a little bit that Iactually gave him something that
(21:16):
and a group of people thatcould help him.
It was nice it was.
It was a nice 10-15 minuteswith this guy oh how nice.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
So you didn't even just give him money, you
actually spent some time and andtalked with them yeah, I bet
that.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, I think I think that was the the best for me.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah yeah, instead of just here's some money which
would be kind to actually say,hey, I see you and that's that's
amazing.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
And you know what's funny, he was telling me a
testimony about God.
He was God.
He was saying to me, like itwas really random, we were
talking, talking, talking andthen all of a sudden he started
telling me testimony and he saidthat, like he knows that God is
real because there's beenthings that he's prayed for,
like a pair of shoes.
He said, like God, if you'rereal, like give me, I want a
pair of shoes like that.
And he said shoes was there.
(22:04):
And I was like no, you've gotme.
I know you're real, I knowyou're real.
So it was so beautiful to seesomebody in such a bad condition
to be able he's smiling,telling me a testimony, telling
me that God is real, and he'snot like angry.
And if God was real, I wouldn'tbe in this situation.
Do you know what I mean?
He was actually trying toconfirm to me that God is real,
(22:26):
even though the environment thathe's in and the conditions that
he's living in it was reallysomething else.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah, oh, that's such a great story.
It's such a great story.
Well, I've loved chatting withyou and I just appreciate your
honesty and sharing your storyand I know that people are going
to really resonate with some ofthat.
I know that the loneliness andfeeling as far as you know God,
(22:54):
you know if you wanted me onthis journey, why is it so hard.
I really appreciate you sharingthat part of your story with us
.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me.
I hope people do resonate withit.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Well on Ordinary People, extraordinary Things.
Your story is his glory.
If this podcast has beeninspirational to you, please
share this podcast with anyonethat you think would really
enjoy it or really get somethingout of it.
It was jam-packed with so manyinsights.
Don't forget to follow us onFacebook, instagram and X, and
(23:27):
don't miss it.
In two weeks, we will be backwith Curtis Fry.
Yes, he was on our podcastearlier, but his story was so
amazing and so many of you lovedit that he's back for a
follow-up.
So don't miss it in two weeks.
We'll see you then.
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