March 23, 2025 • 39 mins
Van Harden, former WHO radio host of 35 years, shares his journey of faith and insights from his book "Jesus, the Prequel." He explains how understanding Jesus' existence before Bethlehem transformed his perspective on scripture and deepened his relationship with Christ.
• Living faith authentically in secular radio without explicit rules
• Discovering Jesus in Old Testament "Christophanies" like the fourth person in the fiery furnace
• Finding Jesus from Genesis to Revelation changes how we read the entire Bible
• Seeing others as they were on their birth day helps love difficult people
• Circling and claiming God's promises throughout scripture
• Showing kindness by genuinely thanking people for their important work
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https://www.vanharden.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nancy Bruscher (00:01):
I'm Nancy Brusher and you've found
Ordinary People, ExtraordinaryThings Stories of ordinary
people telling stories of hope,Real hope.
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(00:22):
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I'm asking if you would sharethe podcast with four people
today.
Four people today, so otherpeople can find these stories of
hope.
Welcome to Ordinary People,Extraordinary Things.
I'm so excited to have VanHarden on.
(00:44):
Van, thank you for being on thepodcast this morning.
Van Harden (00:47):
Well, I'm honored that you asked me to do it.
Nancy Bruscher (00:50):
And Van, if you've heard the name, it's
possible that you're from Iowa,and I listened to you for 20
years.
My mom listened to you, Ibelieve your entire radio show
time at WHO, and so you.
I feel like I already know youbecause I've listened to you for
so many mornings growing up.
Van Harden (01:12):
Well, that was really a fun job.
I retired after 35 years ofdoing that morning show and
getting up at 2.45 in themorning to drive in there to do
it.
Everybody said how in the worlddid you do that?
And I didn't think a thingabout it while I was doing it.
But now that I'm retired Iwonder how I did it too, because
I don't think I could do it now.
Nancy Bruscher (01:36):
So you had Van and Connie and Van and Bonnie
and I don't know.
I just have all this nostalgiatalking to you from kind of
coming back to my childhood.
Van Harden (01:45):
Yeah, it's really fun to go out and about and
people relive, they said hey,remember that time you did this
or you said that, and sometimesI do and sometimes I don't,
since it's been so long ago, butthat's really the fun thing
about it.
I guess anybody that getsfeedback on their work,
especially when it's positive,that's pretty nice.
(02:06):
But I've had more than my fairshare of that and that's that's
a blessing for me.
Nancy Bruscher (02:11):
Oh, that's so neat If people don't know who
you are.
Could you explain in threewords or phrases?
Van Harden (02:16):
Well, in three words , okay, People say I'm creative
because I make a lot of thingsout of nothing or I change
things and use them.
I've had a couple of inventionsand I write books and I did
creative radio programs.
I know that I'm very curiousand just there's so many things
(02:39):
in life that drive me that I'mcurious about, and you know,
faith is one of them.
That's why I started studying,because I was so curious.
And then the other word out ofthree would be thankful.
I'm just, I'm very thankful.
God did all this.
You and I wouldn't even be hereif it wasn't for him, and I'm
very thankful for that.
(02:59):
I think of that all the time.
Nancy Bruscher (03:02):
That's really good.
Yeah, I'm thankful that Darcyhooked us up and said, hey, Van
might want to be on your podcast, and just that wonderful
connection.
Van Harden (03:13):
Yeah, darcy is really.
She's a creative, good one too.
I really like her a lot.
She's done a lot for the stateof Iowa and other people, and so
I'm like you, I'm glad she wasour connection.
Nancy Bruscher (03:27):
Yes.
So how did your faith in Jesusstart?
Van Harden (03:32):
Well, I live in the house where I was born and
raised and I'm the only person Iknow that's lived in the same
house three times.
I bought it back twice, ohreally.
But it's the oldest house inAdelaide 1851.
And I remember when I was justa little kid, in my bedroom
(03:56):
upstairs we have windows that goalmost, but not all the way
down to the floor, and Iremember sitting on the floor at
the window looking out thefloor, and I remember sitting on
the floor at the window lookingout the window and I remember
seeing the green trees and thegreen grass and the birds, and I
(04:16):
don't know how old I was, but Iwas very young and I do
remember thinking there issomething very special going on
here.
I can't quite put my finger onwhat it is, but you know it was
God and I think that wasprobably a pretty profound
thought for as young as I was.
(04:37):
But it wasn't until later thatI got the chance to start
putting all the pieces together.
So I think that was my firstrecollections of God.
My parents had me going toSunday school every Sunday and
we went to church and I heardabout Jesus, but I don't think I
really understood him until Iread and studied the Bible and
(05:02):
saw how life fit into that andit was I don't know.
I had several slap my hand onmy forehead moments thinking
back.
Oh that's kind of like whatthey were talking about when I
was a kid, when I was in Sundayschool or whatever.
I accepted him later on in lifeand boy, that's just made a
(05:26):
world of difference for me and Iguess the big thing that really
has helped me a lot is I'vebeen an adult Bible teacher for
45 years.
Nancy Bruscher (05:35):
Oh, wow.
Van Harden (05:36):
And so it's funny because in all those years
sometimes I teach the same booksover, like I've got one going.
Now I'm studying the book ofJohn, and so I got my notes out
from the last time I taught itand there were some notes on
there that said something aboutis that still true in 1987?
And I thought, man, and ofcourse, as you probably know,
(06:03):
every time you read the Bibleyou may see something new or
different, or something thatstrikes you, that hits you a
little different than the lasttime you did it.
I have just found the Bible tobe the owner's manual to my new
life, and I don't know how I gotalong without it before that.
(06:23):
It's just, that's how importantit is.
Nancy Bruscher (06:29):
When did you say you kind of accepted Christ?
Van Harden (06:33):
Well, let's see.
I was working at a radiostation in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Nancy Bruscher (06:37):
Okay, and.
Van Harden (06:38):
I was in an apartment and I think that would
have been about 1974.
Nancy Bruscher (06:46):
Okay, now, when I was listening to you on the
radio, I don't remember it beinga Christian thing.
I don't know that it wasn'tterribly against Christianity,
but I don't really remember alot of things coming on.
Is that true?
Were you allowed to talk aboutyour faith?
Things coming on, is that true?
(07:06):
Were you allowed to talk aboutyour faith?
Or?
My question is is, if you weregreat, but if you're not really,
how do you still show thosequalities?
Van Harden (07:13):
well, they never told me what I could or could
not say about that.
I always hinted or tried tomirror my faith as I was on the
radio.
But, as you rightly pointed out, it was not a Christian radio
station and as time went on Igot offered a number of jobs at
(07:38):
Christian radio stations and Ithought about it and I thought
you know, my congregation isbigger here and I'm not just
preaching to the choir becausethere's a lot of new people that
aren't Christians.
And I would go out and aboutmany places and people would
stop me and say, hey, van,you're a Christian, aren't you?
I said yeah.
(07:58):
They said we could tell by thethings you say and the things
that you don't say.
So I thought that was.
I think God put me in the rightplace and I'm sure I would have
enjoyed Christian radio as well.
But it was really fun to go outand you know, different groups
Christian and non-Christian andcompanies asked me to come speak
(08:20):
to their company, and I neverspeak anywhere that I don't get
the gospel in.
I mean, that's the one thingthat I insist on doing.
I don't tell them that, butthey find it out afterwards and
they're usually happy that I didit that way.
So that's kind of that was.
I had a lot of people ask methat they give you rules on what
(08:41):
you can say and you knowsomething.
If they would have, I probablywouldn't have worked there.
You know, I could have talkedabout Jesus a lot, but they
would have kicked me off theearth.
There's no doubt about that.
So you'd like to be around tofight the next battle.
So I witnessed in a way thatkept me on the earth.
Nancy Bruscher (09:00):
Yeah, and I think that points to not only
saying something about Jesus butalso living it out, and I think
that when you live it out, thenit becomes evident.
Van Harden (09:11):
Absolutely so, and that's isn't that what we're
supposed to do.
I mean, I have the chance toteach Jesus in my Bible
teachings, but I had a chance tobait the hook for those that
weren't Christians when I was onthe secular radio station.
Nancy Bruscher (09:30):
Right, right.
And then, like you said, I'msure you had so many different
appearances.
I remember meeting you at theIowa State Fair one year, so I'm
sure that also gives you thoseopportunities right to be the
hands and feet and to talk topeople one-on-one and for them
to see that you're kind andloving and feet and to talk to
people one-on-one and for themto see that you're kind and
loving and patient, and all ofthese things.
Van Harden (09:50):
Yeah, and you know something people always and they
still do they treat me like I'msomebody special and I'm not.
I'm just a guy who was a radioannouncer and I write and speak,
but I love the Lord and ifthere's anything special about
me, that's where it comes from.
It's not because of me, buteverybody's special.
(10:11):
If they were born, they'respecial.
God had a hand in that,obviously.
Nancy Bruscher (10:17):
Yeah, how did you discern whether or not to
take those jobs?
I know that that's a questionthat gets asked a lot is how do
I hear God's voice?
How do I know what to do thosejobs?
I know that that's a questionthat gets asked a lot is how do
I hear God's voice?
How do I know what to do?
How do I know if I take this ornot take this?
Van Harden (10:31):
Yeah, that's a good question, Cause I had a.
I had a lot of times when Imean I said, okay, god, I'm
looking through the Bible and Idon't see where it says, yeah,
van, go ahead and take that jobin Detroit.
But you, you know, I've alwaysprayed every morning God, show
(10:53):
me, tell me, send me, show mewhat you got for me, tell me
what to do and send me out to doit.
And so my question myself wasall right, if I go to Detroit,
is that going to help me withthat?
Is that what God's getting tohere or not?
And there was one job that Iactually I was within an eyelash
(11:15):
of taking it.
It was in Minneapolis, a bigradio station in Minneapolis,
and they had the contractwritten and everything was all
done.
All I had to do was put my name, sign my name, on the contract
written and everything was alldone.
All I had to do was put my name, sign my name, on the contract.
And so I went to my boss at WHOand I said now, you know I'm
not the kind of person thatplays one person against another
(11:38):
, but I've just got to tell youwhat's happened.
This big station wants me towork for them and I brought the
contract along so you could seeit, and I said I guess I'm going
to sign it and go and he saidnope, you're not going, you're
staying here.
And so they matched what I wasgoing to be making and I didn't
(11:59):
do it.
For that reason I didn't reallythink about that.
Situations a lot of times tellyou what God is thinking for you
and you have to be careful withthat because, like I say, it's
not black and white in the Biblebut, along with the Holy Spirit
, the situation a lot of times.
God speaks to us through oursituations many, many times.
(12:21):
But you always should checkthat with the Bible to do the
best you can and with the HolySpirit to determine.
Yeah, I think this is right.
Nancy Bruscher (12:33):
Yeah.
Van Harden (12:33):
Oh, that's good.
Nancy Bruscher (12:34):
Thank you.
Your website says that you'redriven by loving God and people.
What does that mean to you andhow do you live it out?
Van Harden (12:44):
In Colossians it says and it's talking about the
word of God, which is Jesus.
It says everything was madethrough him and for him.
So, in other words, in yourlife, if you wrote down a list
of the top 10 most importantthings in your life, or things
(13:04):
that you love, and you looked atthat list, and then you ask
yourself where did those comefrom?
And then you look at that versein Colossians, well, they came
from the Word of God, jesusChrist, and so did your own life
.
So, therefore, what percentageof your life do you owe to the
Word of God?
(13:25):
And I asked this in my Sundayschool class and every single
time they all say 100%.
I said that's exactly right.
You and I wouldn't even be hereif it wasn't for that.
And then the amazing thing isthat that's before we even get
around to talking to whathappened on the cross and the
salvation story.
So he created you.
(13:46):
You owe 100% of your life tohim.
And then, when you get to thatnew thing for your new life now,
what percentage do you owe tohim?
200%, no, there's no number bigenough.
So that's why I've come to loveGod.
And as far as loving others areconcerned, for some reason,
(14:08):
when I look at people, I canalmost see them on the day they
were born as a little baby.
And you don't think of thatvery often.
Sometimes you think of somebodyas a cranky old man or woman or
something.
But you know there was a daythey were born and God gave them
(14:29):
that life and even when they'rehard to love, I think you just
got to love them.
You really do, because ifthey're good enough for God,
they're good enough for me.
Nancy Bruscher (14:43):
That's good.
I think that that's somewhateasy to say but very difficult
to live out.
Van Harden (14:48):
Yes, yeah, we had one guy at work that, and he was
a Christian, but he just droveme crazy and I'd have to pray
every day.
Help me with him.
Nancy Bruscher (15:02):
God.
Van Harden (15:03):
And and it was easier because he was a
Christian.
But you're right, and a lot oftimes when you were supposed to
love one another, you'd have atendency to say, yeah, but God,
you don't know about Fred andwhat he is like.
Of course he does.
He made Fred, you know, right?
That's interesting.
Nancy Bruscher (15:23):
I have never heard of anyone saying I've
heard of people saying see themthe way God sees them, but this
new perspective of seeing themwhen they were born or really
really young is that's really aninteresting perspective.
Van Harden (15:36):
Yeah, that's true.
Nancy Bruscher (15:42):
What prompted you to?
Van Harden (15:43):
write your book Jesus, the Prequel.
Okay, I'm glad you asked that,because I'm not very often
critical of the church and I trynot to be.
But what I have noticed is thatthe church Universal, I think,
has done a pretty good job aboutteaching 33 years, the 33 years
(16:06):
that Jesus was on earth fromBethlehem to ascension.
I mean, even when we were alllittle kids, we were learning
about, you know, jesus and whathe did and all that.
So that's fine.
But I was distressed to findout a lot of people didn't know
Jesus exists before Bethlehem,and I've taught that a lot.
(16:30):
And that's, you know, in thebeginning was the word, and the
word was with God and the wordwas God.
So what's the beginning?
Well, it's the beginning ofeverything, and so that's an
eternity before those 33 yearsever even started.
So, nancy, I would say this Ifsomebody told you a story, do
(16:52):
you want them to tell you thestory again from the beginning,
or would you rather have themstart in the middle?
Nancy Bruscher (16:59):
Right.
It's confusing when you startin the middle.
Van Harden (17:02):
Yeah, it is.
In fact it's funny.
You said that because I know mykids.
When they were little, I usedto read them bedtime stories.
I'd get in the bed with themand read them a bedtime story
before they went to sleep, andit was hard for me because
getting up at 2.45, I wasalready sleepy, and so I'd try
to skip a page or two, you know,and they'd always catch me at
(17:22):
it.
They'd always catch me.
Half of the story is not goodand it's not right, and I just
feel like maybe the church hasnot done a very good job of
teaching Jesus from thebeginning rather than starting
at Bethlehem.
And since I've written this,I've had people tell me wow,
(17:43):
I've never heard any of this,and there's a lot of it.
I didn't hear either, and Iknow some people that look at
Jesus almost like Santa Claus.
He showed up at Bethlehem andhe did good things and he
brought some gifts and he wentaway and and there, there's more
to him than that.
And so what I did was a coupleof things.
(18:06):
Number one I looked at whatthey call christophanies.
Yep, a christophany is, uh, asupposed appearance of christ
before he was ever born inbethlehem, and you can find him.
I mean, people say, well, jesusisn't in the Old Testament,
he's all over the Old Testament,if you really look.
(18:27):
They didn't call him Jesusbecause that name didn't even
exist until the angel came toJoseph and Mary and said hey,
you're going to have a baby andhere's what you're going to name
him.
Name him Jesus.
There's a number of instances.
I guess the one that's mostfamous that people talk about is
Shadrach, meshach and Abednegoin the fiery furnace, when the
(18:48):
king says all right, everybodyin the country, you're going to
bow down and worship this Godthat I made.
And the three young boys saidwe're not doing that.
We have our God and we will notbetray him and we will not
worship your God.
And it really made the king madand he had this fiery furnace
(19:08):
and he said anybody that doesn'tdo this, I'm throwing them in
the furnace.
And he was so mad at those guysthat he turned the furnace up
like seven times as hot as itnormally was.
It was so hot that his people,those workers, picked up the
guys and went to throw them inand some of them died just
getting close to the furnace.
(19:30):
That's how hot it was.
So they threw them in thefurnace and they shut the door
and the king and his vitriolwanted to go enjoy what he was
doing.
He went over to the window ofthe furnace and he looked in and
he says hey guys, didn't wethrow three guys in there?
Oh, yes, king, we threw threeguys in.
(19:50):
Well, I see four, I see anotherone, and the other one looks
like the angel of God, and so hesaid shut it down, shut it down
, and they let the guys out.
And the guys come out.
They have no singed hair, theirclothing is not burned, they
don't smell like smoke, and thethree of them came out.
(20:12):
Now the question is who wasthat fourth person in the fire?
After I've done this study, myown personal belief is that it
was the pre-incarnate Jesus.
I can't prove that because itdoesn't say so in black and
white, but we know this that itwas a Savior and that he was
(20:36):
with them in times of trouble,and Jesus was a Savior.
And Jesus is with us in timesof trouble.
And Jesus was a savior, andJesus is with us in times of
trouble.
And so that's just one of themany that I found that I wrote
about in there, and then thatwas the one angle I took, and
the other angle I took was inthe New Testament, jesus
(20:56):
actually talks about when,before he was born in Bethlehem
and when he was with the Fatherin the beginning and the love
that they had for one another,and so I sifted out all of those
quotes that he talks about thegood old days.
You know, when you get togetherwith your family, what do you
talk about?
You talk about days earlier, andJesus did that with the Father
(21:19):
too.
I try to combine those thingsand show people, and the reason
that this has meant so much tome is I've often wondered if
this whole Christianity thing isas good as we say it is and it
is then why isn't everyoneflocking to it then?
(21:46):
Why isn't everyone flocking toit?
And there's a lot of reasonsfor that, but one of mine I I'm
firmly convinced that evenpeople that say they know jesus
may not know exactly who he is.
They knew about the 33 years,but I've found it through this
study.
I've learned so much about himbefore Bethlehem that now when I
go to the Gospels and read it,it's like I got a whole new pair
(22:08):
of glasses looking at Jesus ashe was on earth, because I know
about his past and I know whathe did and I know who he was and
I want people to have that samepair of glasses.
So I guess you could say that'swhat this book is.
It's a pair of glasses forpeople to really see the real
(22:30):
Jesus.
Nancy Bruscher (22:32):
Well, and I think that a lot of people have
this disconnect with the oldTestament and the new Testament
and and I I believe, once youdig in, like you're saying, then
the Old Testament becomes moreloving and you see it in a whole
different way and you see allthese connections of Jesus
(22:53):
talking about Old Testament allthe time, he's always referring
back to it, and so more of thelove for the whole Bible and not
just okay, I'm just going tofocus on this that's easier.
Van Harden (23:09):
Yep, absolutely right.
I think that the New Testamentis the fulfillment of the Old
Testament.
They go hand in hand, they gotogether.
That's why they're in the samebook.
I don't know.
Know, I've had a few peoplechallenge me on a few things.
Well, the bible conflictsitself and they'll bring up
certain things and you know Ican show them and I just if you
(23:32):
cross reference enough.
It doesn't conflict with itself, it supports itself and to me
is exciting, especially when yousee, you know, isaiah talking
about Jesus 700 years before hewas even born, and all the
details that he gets exactlyperfectly right.
I mean, that's not coincidence,it can't be coincidence, it's
(23:56):
just a sign of truth, right?
Nancy Bruscher (23:58):
It's just a sign of truth, Right?
Well, John begins his book ofthe Bible with in the beginning,
and he's referencing the wordof God and Genesis and Jesus.
So that's an easy connection, Ifeel like.
Van Harden (24:12):
Absolutely.
You lay John 1 over Genesis 1,and you've got quite a thing
there.
And you got quite a thing there.
You, you have all three personsof the of, uh, the trinity, all
there at the same time together, when, in the beginning, the
beginning of what?
Well, the beginning of thebible is the beginning of the
world, the end of the bible isthe end of that world in the new
(24:34):
world.
So in the beginning was whoknows how long before the world
was even created, before we hadtime, and I've said that before.
I said before we had time.
Yeah, there was no sun.
That's how we keep our time isby the sun.
So this gets very profound asyou look at it closely.
Nancy Bruscher (24:56):
Do you believe that Jesus was there at the
Exodus?
Was he the angel that camethrough on the Passover and
slaughtered the firstborn thatdidn't have the blood on the
doorpost?
Van Harden (25:11):
You know it's hard for me to say because I try not
to teach anything that I can'tprove word for word in the Bible
and it doesn't say that wordfor word in the Bible.
And it doesn't say that wordfor word in the Bible.
But the answer to your questionis yes.
And how about Moses and theburning bush?
And you know there's others inthe book that I've pointed out
(25:34):
that it doesn't say that, butall the clues are there.
Nancy Bruscher (25:38):
Right, they kind of reference in the same way,
or one way I've started to seeit is when someone worships the
angel of the Lord and he allowsworship, that to me is a big
sign.
That is Jesus, because otherplaces in the Bible the angels
will not accept worship.
Van Harden (25:59):
Yes, in fact I think you hit on something there,
because, like in Shadrach,meshach and Abednego, the king
says he looks like the angel ofthe Lord, and in the Old
Testament you will see thatphrase from time to time the
angel of the Lord.
But once Jesus is born, in theNew Testament you will never see
(26:23):
that phrase again.
You'll see an angel of the Lord.
So to me, I think the angel ofthe Lord was the pre-incarnate
Jesus.
Nancy Bruscher (26:32):
Yeah, I would agree with you.
Yeah, but you have to reallydive in right, because those are
the word the, and a or an andyeah why not just gloss over it?
Van Harden (26:43):
but there's so much richness and oh yeah really
diving in one that really blewme away was I used to hate the
book of job, and you know.
You can tell why, because youknow this poor guy's going
through stuff that you know if Iwas god he wouldn't have to do
that.
But I'm not, and you're lucky,I'm not he.
He's going through all thisstuff, and we know why because
(27:07):
the first two chapters tellabout God allowing it to happen
after his conversation withSatan, and so that's why it
happened.
But Job's so-called friendsspent like 34 chapters telling
him you did something wrong.
You must have, you got to admitit, you got to come clean, and
(27:29):
God sat there and listened tothat for all those chapters.
And then finally and I don'tknow 37 or 38 or something, he
says all right, guys, who formedthe boundaries of the water?
Who puts the wind under thewings of the birds?
And he goes on for severalchapters, asking all these
(27:50):
questions that the answer couldonly be god, and he doesn't
really tell him.
Well, here's why job's havingsome problems.
He's telling them just trust me, I'm God and I did all these
things, and I know best, eventhough it doesn't always seem
best.
And so I think that's a greatmessage to each one of us you
(28:12):
and I go through things we don'twant to go through.
We go through things that maybedon't seem fair, and you could
ask why, why?
Why?
Well, get out the 38th chapterof Job and just read it and it
kind of puts us in our place.
You know, we are his and he issmarter than we are and he knows
(28:33):
what's right, and so, and theone thing about Job that really
blew me away and I should havegot it out so I could have had
it for this conversation butthere's one part in there, when
he's asking all these questionsabout who did this, who did this
, who did this, it sayssomething to the effect were you
there with the mule in my?
(28:55):
And I thought, whoa, I've neverseen that before and I thought
that that's almost.
That's almost like jesus issaying that you know, and those
are not the exact words, butit's something to that effect
yeah, where he's he's doinganother thing, where he's
(29:18):
showing you in advance of whathe's going to do, yeah.
Yeah.
Nancy Bruscher (29:23):
Yeah, so interesting.
Do you get into Revelations orRevelation, or do you stay with
the Old Testament more in yourbook?
Van Harden (29:34):
I've taught Revelation, I think seven times.
I mentioned you know where weseem to be and what's going to
happen, and I just stopped andsaid you know, you got hundreds
and thousands of other peoplewriting you what they think
about that and I just think Ihaven't heard anybody talking
(29:56):
about the pre-existence of Jesus.
So at least in this book I'msticking with that.
Nancy Bruscher (30:02):
Yeah, no, no, that's good.
The revelation can get a little.
Everyone likes their part andthey want, they want to know the
information, but the idea thatJesus is there from the very
first page to the very last page, yeah.
Van Harden (30:16):
Yeah, I had.
I've had several other pastorsthat I'm not a pastor, but I've
had some pastors that heard thatI have taught Revelation and
they said what suggestions canyou give me Because I'm going to
teach it?
And I always tell them the samething.
I say teach what it says andnot what it doesn't say.
All sorts of people taking allsorts of things out of there and
(30:45):
, you know, manipulating it tosay what they'd like it to say,
what they want it to say, and soI I just try to be very careful
when I teach the bible no, I,yeah.
Nancy Bruscher (30:52):
I mean.
This says that you should rightthat there's, that there's
consequences for yeah, not foradding to it or for subtracting
from it.
Van Harden (31:04):
In revelation it says you they will get the uh
consequences that have beenlisted in this book, which I
don't want.
Nancy Bruscher (31:12):
That yeah, those are heavy, those are yeah, what
do you hope people learn fromyour book?
Van Harden (31:18):
I want them to, uh, think more about Jesus, as you
just said, from beginning, fromthe very beginning, rather than
just.
You know, here's a characterthat showed up in the Bible,
like Jonah, or, you know, allthe other people that we learned
about in Sunday school class,that we learned about in Sunday
(31:40):
school class, and that what dothey owe him?
You know?
Do they understand that if itweren't for him, they wouldn't
be here at all?
And if so, how thankful arethey for that?
You know, it seems to me likewe ought to be on our knees all
(32:01):
the time, because this Jesus wasthe one that the Father used
him to create us and we wouldn'teven be here without him, and
that he said he would never,ever leave us, just like the
boys in the fiery furnace.
And if he says that, that'strue, I've often, whenever I
(32:24):
teach a Bible class, I havepeople circle when we read a
promise and I said that is apromise.
This is not a promise from aRepublican or a Democrat or a
politician, it's a promise fromGod.
So, circle that, that's job oneand number two claim it.
If God gives you a promise,then it's a good promise.
(32:48):
Claim it, so I hope people willclaim things in this book as
well.
Nancy Bruscher (32:55):
Is there one that you can think of just off
the top of your head, of thepromise and to claim it?
Van Harden (33:01):
I don't have my Bible in front of me but I hit
one in John as I was preparingfor my class and I don't
remember now what it is, but boy, they're all over the Bible.
I mean, that would be a greatstudy for somebody.
If they're depressed, gothrough, you know, name the book
.
Go through a book and circlethe promises that are in there,
(33:21):
because they are.
Nancy Bruscher (33:24):
Yeah, no, that's a good point.
That's a good point.
Well, I have really loved ourchat.
Thank you so much.
Van Harden (33:31):
Well, thank you.
I'm honored that you even askedme to do it, so be sure to say
hi to your mother.
Nancy Bruscher (33:37):
Hi Luann, While we're wrapping up, I always like
to end with these few questions.
What is your favorite Bibleverse or story?
Van Harden (33:46):
My favorite Bible verse and people say, oh, you
just like it because it's short.
Now, my favorite Bible verse isin 1 Thessalonians pray without
ceasing.
And they say, well, why wouldthat be your favorite Bible
verse?
I said because that's my goalin life.
If I could do that, I would beconnected emotionally and
(34:10):
spiritually with God all thetime.
Well, you can't pray whenyou're driving a car.
Yes, you can.
You can pray anytime.
Pray without ceasing.
So I catch myself going longperiods of time without praying
and I said you're not doing whatyou said you do.
Do you believe that or not?
(34:32):
Pray without ceasing.
Well, it's important.
So that's my favorite Bibleverse.
Is that an answer to yourquestion?
Nancy Bruscher (34:39):
Yeah, it's a great one.
I thought you might go with hewept to the very, very shortest.
When you said that someone saidyou just like it because it's
short, I would my, my son'sfavorite one right now is he
wept because it's two words yeah, well, my, it's funny because
my one of my sons was one ofthem that said you just like it
(35:01):
because it's short.
Van Harden (35:02):
And I told him yeah, mr Jesus wept, that's the one
he picked for his Christianschool, you know?
Yeah, exactly exactly.
Nancy Bruscher (35:12):
What are you grateful for?
Van Harden (35:14):
I'm just grateful for being alive and that God put
me together the way he does,and that I guess I'm grateful
for the word times to the wordJesus Christ, so I can be with
him forever, and the word theBible in black and white man.
(35:37):
Those two put together, that'sa blockbuster combination.
It really is.
I God didn't have to make aBible, he didn't.
He could have just had us outhere on our own.
He decided to give us someguidance in what I call the
owner's manual of life.
That doesn't mean you're goingto understand it all, it doesn't
(35:58):
mean you can fulfill it all,but it's there for you if you
really love God that much.
And I think that after peoplestudy, especially in the prequel
about Jesus before Bethlehem, Ithink they're going to love him
even more and that will bringmore people to Christ.
It'll bring more people toChrist and it'll bring people
(36:20):
that thought they knew Christeven closer to him.
Yeah, so that's what I'mthankful for.
Nancy Bruscher (36:26):
Oh, I love that.
What kindness have you receivedin the last week or what
kindness have you shown?
Van Harden (36:33):
I'm amazed, when I go out and about, the
compliments and encouragements Iget on a lot of things my radio
program, my Bible teaching, mywriting and boy, that's just
like fuel in the tank.
When you hear something likethat, you know you think yeah,
well, maybe this does make adifference.
So those are kindnesses Ireceive, I guess the kindness
(36:59):
that I try to give.
When I go out and about and Isee people doing their jobs,
whether it's the Department ofTransportation or the burger
place or whatever, I see a lotof people that you can just tell
that they're not real thrilledabout being there.
They just do their job throughdrudgery.
(37:20):
And I almost always try to stopand said say to them hey, I'll
bet not many people tell youthis, but you really are doing
something important here.
And on behalf of all the otherpeople that never say it, I just
want to say thank you, and it'samazing how their demeanor
(37:45):
changes in something like that.
And I I don't do it just to tryto get their attention and make
them smile, although it does.
I do it because I think that,uh, they need some fuel in their
tank too right, right.
Yeah, we were at the pharmacyyesterday and I was just looking
(38:05):
around and I thought I don'tknow if I've seen more of a
depressed place in such a longtime yeah, oh, absolutely, and I
go to the doctor from time totime and you know there's uh, I
have to orbit the buildingseveral times even to find a
parking space, and then you getin there and you see just
exactly what you just mentioned.
(38:25):
I mean, people are not wildabout being there, but they need
some uplifting oh, that's sucha good reminder, thank you you
bet well, I've loved ourconversation.
Nancy Bruscher (38:38):
I am going to link your book and your website
in the show notes so that peoplecan find you, and I'm praying
that.
Some people are saying well, Ithought I heard that, but I
didn't really know how to learnmore information, or I have
never heard anything like thisand it's just, you know, popping
off little things in theirbrain of I really want to learn
(39:01):
more about this.
Van Harden (39:02):
Yeah.
Nancy Bruscher (39:03):
Thank you for your time.
I really enjoyed ourconversation today Van.
Van Harden (39:06):
Yeah, thank you for doing this.
I don't know how you decided todo what you're doing with so
many people, but you know, Ilooked at it and I thought that
is good.
That is uplifting.
We need more of that.
Nancy Bruscher (39:19):
Thank you, I appreciate that Well.
At Ordinary People,extraordinary Things your story
is his glory.
Van Harden (39:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
Nancy Bruscher (39:28):
Thank you so much for listening.
I hope that this podcast withVan has been inspiring for you.
In two weeks, I get to talk toRachel and we get to talk about
money, tithing and generosity.
What a great conversation.
As the tax season approaches,as I said earlier, please share
this podcast with four peopletoday, right now.
(39:51):
Please do it so that others canfind ordinary people,
extraordinary things and findthe hope that they need in their
lives.
I'm Nancy Brusher and you've found
Ordinary People, ExtraordinaryThings Stories of ordinary
people telling stories of hope,Real hope.
We're in 50 countries.
Thank you so much for sharingOrdinary People, Extraordinary
Things.
We are in every continentexcept for South America and
(00:22):
Antarctica.
Could you help us get the wordout about Ordinary People,
Extraordinary Things podcast?
I'm asking if you would sharethe podcast with four people
today.
Four people today, so otherpeople can find these stories of
hope.
Welcome to Ordinary People,Extraordinary Things.
I'm so excited to have VanHarden on.
(00:44):
Van, thank you for being on thepodcast this morning.
Van Harden (00:47):
Well, I'm honored that you asked me to do it.
Nancy Bruscher (00:50):
And Van, if you've heard the name, it's
possible that you're from Iowa,and I listened to you for 20
years.
My mom listened to you, Ibelieve your entire radio show
time at WHO, and so you.
I feel like I already know youbecause I've listened to you for
so many mornings growing up.
Van Harden (01:12):
Well, that was really a fun job.
I retired after 35 years ofdoing that morning show and
getting up at 2.45 in themorning to drive in there to do
it.
Everybody said how in the worlddid you do that?
And I didn't think a thingabout it while I was doing it.
But now that I'm retired Iwonder how I did it too, because
I don't think I could do it now.
Nancy Bruscher (01:36):
So you had Van and Connie and Van and Bonnie
and I don't know.
I just have all this nostalgiatalking to you from kind of
coming back to my childhood.
Van Harden (01:45):
Yeah, it's really fun to go out and about and
people relive, they said hey,remember that time you did this
or you said that, and sometimesI do and sometimes I don't,
since it's been so long ago, butthat's really the fun thing
about it.
I guess anybody that getsfeedback on their work,
especially when it's positive,that's pretty nice.
(02:06):
But I've had more than my fairshare of that and that's that's
a blessing for me.
Nancy Bruscher (02:11):
Oh, that's so neat If people don't know who
you are.
Could you explain in threewords or phrases?
Van Harden (02:16):
Well, in three words , okay, People say I'm creative
because I make a lot of thingsout of nothing or I change
things and use them.
I've had a couple of inventionsand I write books and I did
creative radio programs.
I know that I'm very curiousand just there's so many things
(02:39):
in life that drive me that I'mcurious about, and you know,
faith is one of them.
That's why I started studying,because I was so curious.
And then the other word out ofthree would be thankful.
I'm just, I'm very thankful.
God did all this.
You and I wouldn't even be hereif it wasn't for him, and I'm
very thankful for that.
(02:59):
I think of that all the time.
Nancy Bruscher (03:02):
That's really good.
Yeah, I'm thankful that Darcyhooked us up and said, hey, Van
might want to be on your podcast, and just that wonderful
connection.
Van Harden (03:13):
Yeah, darcy is really.
She's a creative, good one too.
I really like her a lot.
She's done a lot for the stateof Iowa and other people, and so
I'm like you, I'm glad she wasour connection.
Nancy Bruscher (03:27):
Yes.
So how did your faith in Jesusstart?
Van Harden (03:32):
Well, I live in the house where I was born and
raised and I'm the only person Iknow that's lived in the same
house three times.
I bought it back twice, ohreally.
But it's the oldest house inAdelaide 1851.
And I remember when I was justa little kid, in my bedroom
(03:56):
upstairs we have windows that goalmost, but not all the way
down to the floor, and Iremember sitting on the floor at
the window looking out thefloor, and I remember sitting on
the floor at the window lookingout the window and I remember
seeing the green trees and thegreen grass and the birds, and I
(04:16):
don't know how old I was, but Iwas very young and I do
remember thinking there issomething very special going on
here.
I can't quite put my finger onwhat it is, but you know it was
God and I think that wasprobably a pretty profound
thought for as young as I was.
(04:37):
But it wasn't until later thatI got the chance to start
putting all the pieces together.
So I think that was my firstrecollections of God.
My parents had me going toSunday school every Sunday and
we went to church and I heardabout Jesus, but I don't think I
really understood him until Iread and studied the Bible and
(05:02):
saw how life fit into that andit was I don't know.
I had several slap my hand onmy forehead moments thinking
back.
Oh that's kind of like whatthey were talking about when I
was a kid, when I was in Sundayschool or whatever.
I accepted him later on in lifeand boy, that's just made a
(05:26):
world of difference for me and Iguess the big thing that really
has helped me a lot is I'vebeen an adult Bible teacher for
45 years.
Nancy Bruscher (05:35):
Oh, wow.
Van Harden (05:36):
And so it's funny because in all those years
sometimes I teach the same booksover, like I've got one going.
Now I'm studying the book ofJohn, and so I got my notes out
from the last time I taught itand there were some notes on
there that said something aboutis that still true in 1987?
And I thought, man, and ofcourse, as you probably know,
(06:03):
every time you read the Bibleyou may see something new or
different, or something thatstrikes you, that hits you a
little different than the lasttime you did it.
I have just found the Bible tobe the owner's manual to my new
life, and I don't know how I gotalong without it before that.
(06:23):
It's just, that's how importantit is.
Nancy Bruscher (06:29):
When did you say you kind of accepted Christ?
Van Harden (06:33):
Well, let's see.
I was working at a radiostation in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Nancy Bruscher (06:37):
Okay, and.
Van Harden (06:38):
I was in an apartment and I think that would
have been about 1974.
Nancy Bruscher (06:46):
Okay, now, when I was listening to you on the
radio, I don't remember it beinga Christian thing.
I don't know that it wasn'tterribly against Christianity,
but I don't really remember alot of things coming on.
Is that true?
Were you allowed to talk aboutyour faith?
Things coming on, is that true?
(07:06):
Were you allowed to talk aboutyour faith?
Or?
My question is is, if you weregreat, but if you're not really,
how do you still show thosequalities?
Van Harden (07:13):
well, they never told me what I could or could
not say about that.
I always hinted or tried tomirror my faith as I was on the
radio.
But, as you rightly pointed out, it was not a Christian radio
station and as time went on Igot offered a number of jobs at
(07:38):
Christian radio stations and Ithought about it and I thought
you know, my congregation isbigger here and I'm not just
preaching to the choir becausethere's a lot of new people that
aren't Christians.
And I would go out and aboutmany places and people would
stop me and say, hey, van,you're a Christian, aren't you?
I said yeah.
(07:58):
They said we could tell by thethings you say and the things
that you don't say.
So I thought that was.
I think God put me in the rightplace and I'm sure I would have
enjoyed Christian radio as well.
But it was really fun to go outand you know, different groups
Christian and non-Christian andcompanies asked me to come speak
(08:20):
to their company, and I neverspeak anywhere that I don't get
the gospel in.
I mean, that's the one thingthat I insist on doing.
I don't tell them that, butthey find it out afterwards and
they're usually happy that I didit that way.
So that's kind of that was.
I had a lot of people ask methat they give you rules on what
(08:41):
you can say and you knowsomething.
If they would have, I probablywouldn't have worked there.
You know, I could have talkedabout Jesus a lot, but they
would have kicked me off theearth.
There's no doubt about that.
So you'd like to be around tofight the next battle.
So I witnessed in a way thatkept me on the earth.
Nancy Bruscher (09:00):
Yeah, and I think that points to not only
saying something about Jesus butalso living it out, and I think
that when you live it out, thenit becomes evident.
Van Harden (09:11):
Absolutely so, and that's isn't that what we're
supposed to do.
I mean, I have the chance toteach Jesus in my Bible
teachings, but I had a chance tobait the hook for those that
weren't Christians when I was onthe secular radio station.
Nancy Bruscher (09:30):
Right, right.
And then, like you said, I'msure you had so many different
appearances.
I remember meeting you at theIowa State Fair one year, so I'm
sure that also gives you thoseopportunities right to be the
hands and feet and to talk topeople one-on-one and for them
to see that you're kind andloving and feet and to talk to
people one-on-one and for themto see that you're kind and
loving and patient, and all ofthese things.
Van Harden (09:50):
Yeah, and you know something people always and they
still do they treat me like I'msomebody special and I'm not.
I'm just a guy who was a radioannouncer and I write and speak,
but I love the Lord and ifthere's anything special about
me, that's where it comes from.
It's not because of me, buteverybody's special.
(10:11):
If they were born, they'respecial.
God had a hand in that,obviously.
Nancy Bruscher (10:17):
Yeah, how did you discern whether or not to
take those jobs?
I know that that's a questionthat gets asked a lot is how do
I hear God's voice?
How do I know what to do thosejobs?
I know that that's a questionthat gets asked a lot is how do
I hear God's voice?
How do I know what to do?
How do I know if I take this ornot take this?
Van Harden (10:31):
Yeah, that's a good question, Cause I had a.
I had a lot of times when Imean I said, okay, god, I'm
looking through the Bible and Idon't see where it says, yeah,
van, go ahead and take that jobin Detroit.
But you, you know, I've alwaysprayed every morning God, show
(10:53):
me, tell me, send me, show mewhat you got for me, tell me
what to do and send me out to doit.
And so my question myself wasall right, if I go to Detroit,
is that going to help me withthat?
Is that what God's getting tohere or not?
And there was one job that Iactually I was within an eyelash
(11:15):
of taking it.
It was in Minneapolis, a bigradio station in Minneapolis,
and they had the contractwritten and everything was all
done.
All I had to do was put my name, sign my name, on the contract
written and everything was alldone.
All I had to do was put my name, sign my name, on the contract.
And so I went to my boss at WHOand I said now, you know I'm
not the kind of person thatplays one person against another
(11:38):
, but I've just got to tell youwhat's happened.
This big station wants me towork for them and I brought the
contract along so you could seeit, and I said I guess I'm going
to sign it and go and he saidnope, you're not going, you're
staying here.
And so they matched what I wasgoing to be making and I didn't
(11:59):
do it.
For that reason I didn't reallythink about that.
Situations a lot of times tellyou what God is thinking for you
and you have to be careful withthat because, like I say, it's
not black and white in the Biblebut, along with the Holy Spirit
, the situation a lot of times.
God speaks to us through oursituations many, many times.
(12:21):
But you always should checkthat with the Bible to do the
best you can and with the HolySpirit to determine.
Yeah, I think this is right.
Nancy Bruscher (12:33):
Yeah.
Van Harden (12:33):
Oh, that's good.
Nancy Bruscher (12:34):
Thank you.
Your website says that you'redriven by loving God and people.
What does that mean to you andhow do you live it out?
Van Harden (12:44):
In Colossians it says and it's talking about the
word of God, which is Jesus.
It says everything was madethrough him and for him.
So, in other words, in yourlife, if you wrote down a list
of the top 10 most importantthings in your life, or things
(13:04):
that you love, and you looked atthat list, and then you ask
yourself where did those comefrom?
And then you look at that versein Colossians, well, they came
from the Word of God, jesusChrist, and so did your own life
.
So, therefore, what percentageof your life do you owe to the
Word of God?
(13:25):
And I asked this in my Sundayschool class and every single
time they all say 100%.
I said that's exactly right.
You and I wouldn't even be hereif it wasn't for that.
And then the amazing thing isthat that's before we even get
around to talking to whathappened on the cross and the
salvation story.
So he created you.
(13:46):
You owe 100% of your life tohim.
And then, when you get to thatnew thing for your new life now,
what percentage do you owe tohim?
200%, no, there's no number bigenough.
So that's why I've come to loveGod.
And as far as loving others areconcerned, for some reason,
(14:08):
when I look at people, I canalmost see them on the day they
were born as a little baby.
And you don't think of thatvery often.
Sometimes you think of somebodyas a cranky old man or woman or
something.
But you know there was a daythey were born and God gave them
(14:29):
that life and even when they'rehard to love, I think you just
got to love them.
You really do, because ifthey're good enough for God,
they're good enough for me.
Nancy Bruscher (14:43):
That's good.
I think that that's somewhateasy to say but very difficult
to live out.
Van Harden (14:48):
Yes, yeah, we had one guy at work that, and he was
a Christian, but he just droveme crazy and I'd have to pray
every day.
Help me with him.
Nancy Bruscher (15:02):
God.
Van Harden (15:03):
And and it was easier because he was a
Christian.
But you're right, and a lot oftimes when you were supposed to
love one another, you'd have atendency to say, yeah, but God,
you don't know about Fred andwhat he is like.
Of course he does.
He made Fred, you know, right?
That's interesting.
Nancy Bruscher (15:23):
I have never heard of anyone saying I've
heard of people saying see themthe way God sees them, but this
new perspective of seeing themwhen they were born or really
really young is that's really aninteresting perspective.
Van Harden (15:36):
Yeah, that's true.
Nancy Bruscher (15:42):
What prompted you to?
Van Harden (15:43):
write your book Jesus, the Prequel.
Okay, I'm glad you asked that,because I'm not very often
critical of the church and I trynot to be.
But what I have noticed is thatthe church Universal, I think,
has done a pretty good job aboutteaching 33 years, the 33 years
(16:06):
that Jesus was on earth fromBethlehem to ascension.
I mean, even when we were alllittle kids, we were learning
about, you know, jesus and whathe did and all that.
So that's fine.
But I was distressed to findout a lot of people didn't know
Jesus exists before Bethlehem,and I've taught that a lot.
(16:30):
And that's, you know, in thebeginning was the word, and the
word was with God and the wordwas God.
So what's the beginning?
Well, it's the beginning ofeverything, and so that's an
eternity before those 33 yearsever even started.
So, nancy, I would say this Ifsomebody told you a story, do
(16:52):
you want them to tell you thestory again from the beginning,
or would you rather have themstart in the middle?
Nancy Bruscher (16:59):
Right.
It's confusing when you startin the middle.
Van Harden (17:02):
Yeah, it is.
In fact it's funny.
You said that because I know mykids.
When they were little, I usedto read them bedtime stories.
I'd get in the bed with themand read them a bedtime story
before they went to sleep, andit was hard for me because
getting up at 2.45, I wasalready sleepy, and so I'd try
to skip a page or two, you know,and they'd always catch me at
(17:22):
it.
They'd always catch me.
Half of the story is not goodand it's not right, and I just
feel like maybe the church hasnot done a very good job of
teaching Jesus from thebeginning rather than starting
at Bethlehem.
And since I've written this,I've had people tell me wow,
(17:43):
I've never heard any of this,and there's a lot of it.
I didn't hear either, and Iknow some people that look at
Jesus almost like Santa Claus.
He showed up at Bethlehem andhe did good things and he
brought some gifts and he wentaway and and there, there's more
to him than that.
And so what I did was a coupleof things.
(18:06):
Number one I looked at whatthey call christophanies.
Yep, a christophany is, uh, asupposed appearance of christ
before he was ever born inbethlehem, and you can find him.
I mean, people say, well, jesusisn't in the Old Testament,
he's all over the Old Testament,if you really look.
(18:27):
They didn't call him Jesusbecause that name didn't even
exist until the angel came toJoseph and Mary and said hey,
you're going to have a baby andhere's what you're going to name
him.
Name him Jesus.
There's a number of instances.
I guess the one that's mostfamous that people talk about is
Shadrach, meshach and Abednegoin the fiery furnace, when the
(18:48):
king says all right, everybodyin the country, you're going to
bow down and worship this Godthat I made.
And the three young boys saidwe're not doing that.
We have our God and we will notbetray him and we will not
worship your God.
And it really made the king madand he had this fiery furnace
(19:08):
and he said anybody that doesn'tdo this, I'm throwing them in
the furnace.
And he was so mad at those guysthat he turned the furnace up
like seven times as hot as itnormally was.
It was so hot that his people,those workers, picked up the
guys and went to throw them inand some of them died just
getting close to the furnace.
(19:30):
That's how hot it was.
So they threw them in thefurnace and they shut the door
and the king and his vitriolwanted to go enjoy what he was
doing.
He went over to the window ofthe furnace and he looked in and
he says hey guys, didn't wethrow three guys in there?
Oh, yes, king, we threw threeguys in.
(19:50):
Well, I see four, I see anotherone, and the other one looks
like the angel of God, and so hesaid shut it down, shut it down
, and they let the guys out.
And the guys come out.
They have no singed hair, theirclothing is not burned, they
don't smell like smoke, and thethree of them came out.
(20:12):
Now the question is who wasthat fourth person in the fire?
After I've done this study, myown personal belief is that it
was the pre-incarnate Jesus.
I can't prove that because itdoesn't say so in black and
white, but we know this that itwas a Savior and that he was
(20:36):
with them in times of trouble,and Jesus was a Savior.
And Jesus is with us in timesof trouble.
And Jesus was a savior, andJesus is with us in times of
trouble.
And so that's just one of themany that I found that I wrote
about in there, and then thatwas the one angle I took, and
the other angle I took was inthe New Testament, jesus
(20:56):
actually talks about when,before he was born in Bethlehem
and when he was with the Fatherin the beginning and the love
that they had for one another,and so I sifted out all of those
quotes that he talks about thegood old days.
You know, when you get togetherwith your family, what do you
talk about?
You talk about days earlier, andJesus did that with the Father
(21:19):
too.
I try to combine those thingsand show people, and the reason
that this has meant so much tome is I've often wondered if
this whole Christianity thing isas good as we say it is and it
is then why isn't everyoneflocking to it then?
(21:46):
Why isn't everyone flocking toit?
And there's a lot of reasonsfor that, but one of mine I I'm
firmly convinced that evenpeople that say they know jesus
may not know exactly who he is.
They knew about the 33 years,but I've found it through this
study.
I've learned so much about himbefore Bethlehem that now when I
go to the Gospels and read it,it's like I got a whole new pair
(22:08):
of glasses looking at Jesus ashe was on earth, because I know
about his past and I know whathe did and I know who he was and
I want people to have that samepair of glasses.
So I guess you could say that'swhat this book is.
It's a pair of glasses forpeople to really see the real
(22:30):
Jesus.
Nancy Bruscher (22:32):
Well, and I think that a lot of people have
this disconnect with the oldTestament and the new Testament
and and I I believe, once youdig in, like you're saying, then
the Old Testament becomes moreloving and you see it in a whole
different way and you see allthese connections of Jesus
(22:53):
talking about Old Testament allthe time, he's always referring
back to it, and so more of thelove for the whole Bible and not
just okay, I'm just going tofocus on this that's easier.
Van Harden (23:09):
Yep, absolutely right.
I think that the New Testamentis the fulfillment of the Old
Testament.
They go hand in hand, they gotogether.
That's why they're in the samebook.
I don't know.
Know, I've had a few peoplechallenge me on a few things.
Well, the bible conflictsitself and they'll bring up
certain things and you know Ican show them and I just if you
(23:32):
cross reference enough.
It doesn't conflict with itself, it supports itself and to me
is exciting, especially when yousee, you know, isaiah talking
about Jesus 700 years before hewas even born, and all the
details that he gets exactlyperfectly right.
I mean, that's not coincidence,it can't be coincidence, it's
(23:56):
just a sign of truth, right?
Nancy Bruscher (23:58):
It's just a sign of truth, Right?
Well, John begins his book ofthe Bible with in the beginning,
and he's referencing the wordof God and Genesis and Jesus.
So that's an easy connection, Ifeel like.
Van Harden (24:12):
Absolutely.
You lay John 1 over Genesis 1,and you've got quite a thing
there.
And you got quite a thing there.
You, you have all three personsof the of, uh, the trinity, all
there at the same time together, when, in the beginning, the
beginning of what?
Well, the beginning of thebible is the beginning of the
world, the end of the bible isthe end of that world in the new
(24:34):
world.
So in the beginning was whoknows how long before the world
was even created, before we hadtime, and I've said that before.
I said before we had time.
Yeah, there was no sun.
That's how we keep our time isby the sun.
So this gets very profound asyou look at it closely.
Nancy Bruscher (24:56):
Do you believe that Jesus was there at the
Exodus?
Was he the angel that camethrough on the Passover and
slaughtered the firstborn thatdidn't have the blood on the
doorpost?
Van Harden (25:11):
You know it's hard for me to say because I try not
to teach anything that I can'tprove word for word in the Bible
and it doesn't say that wordfor word in the Bible.
And it doesn't say that wordfor word in the Bible.
But the answer to your questionis yes.
And how about Moses and theburning bush?
And you know there's others inthe book that I've pointed out
(25:34):
that it doesn't say that, butall the clues are there.
Nancy Bruscher (25:38):
Right, they kind of reference in the same way,
or one way I've started to seeit is when someone worships the
angel of the Lord and he allowsworship, that to me is a big
sign.
That is Jesus, because otherplaces in the Bible the angels
will not accept worship.
Van Harden (25:59):
Yes, in fact I think you hit on something there,
because, like in Shadrach,meshach and Abednego, the king
says he looks like the angel ofthe Lord, and in the Old
Testament you will see thatphrase from time to time the
angel of the Lord.
But once Jesus is born, in theNew Testament you will never see
(26:23):
that phrase again.
You'll see an angel of the Lord.
So to me, I think the angel ofthe Lord was the pre-incarnate
Jesus.
Nancy Bruscher (26:32):
Yeah, I would agree with you.
Yeah, but you have to reallydive in right, because those are
the word the, and a or an andyeah why not just gloss over it?
Van Harden (26:43):
but there's so much richness and oh yeah really
diving in one that really blewme away was I used to hate the
book of job, and you know.
You can tell why, because youknow this poor guy's going
through stuff that you know if Iwas god he wouldn't have to do
that.
But I'm not, and you're lucky,I'm not he.
He's going through all thisstuff, and we know why because
(27:07):
the first two chapters tellabout God allowing it to happen
after his conversation withSatan, and so that's why it
happened.
But Job's so-called friendsspent like 34 chapters telling
him you did something wrong.
You must have, you got to admitit, you got to come clean, and
(27:29):
God sat there and listened tothat for all those chapters.
And then finally and I don'tknow 37 or 38 or something, he
says all right, guys, who formedthe boundaries of the water?
Who puts the wind under thewings of the birds?
And he goes on for severalchapters, asking all these
(27:50):
questions that the answer couldonly be god, and he doesn't
really tell him.
Well, here's why job's havingsome problems.
He's telling them just trust me, I'm God and I did all these
things, and I know best, eventhough it doesn't always seem
best.
And so I think that's a greatmessage to each one of us you
(28:12):
and I go through things we don'twant to go through.
We go through things that maybedon't seem fair, and you could
ask why, why?
Why?
Well, get out the 38th chapterof Job and just read it and it
kind of puts us in our place.
You know, we are his and he issmarter than we are and he knows
(28:33):
what's right, and so, and theone thing about Job that really
blew me away and I should havegot it out so I could have had
it for this conversation butthere's one part in there, when
he's asking all these questionsabout who did this, who did this
, who did this, it sayssomething to the effect were you
there with the mule in my?
(28:55):
And I thought, whoa, I've neverseen that before and I thought
that that's almost.
That's almost like jesus issaying that you know, and those
are not the exact words, butit's something to that effect
yeah, where he's he's doinganother thing, where he's
(29:18):
showing you in advance of whathe's going to do, yeah.
Yeah.
Nancy Bruscher (29:23):
Yeah, so interesting.
Do you get into Revelations orRevelation, or do you stay with
the Old Testament more in yourbook?
Van Harden (29:34):
I've taught Revelation, I think seven times.
I mentioned you know where weseem to be and what's going to
happen, and I just stopped andsaid you know, you got hundreds
and thousands of other peoplewriting you what they think
about that and I just think Ihaven't heard anybody talking
(29:56):
about the pre-existence of Jesus.
So at least in this book I'msticking with that.
Nancy Bruscher (30:02):
Yeah, no, no, that's good.
The revelation can get a little.
Everyone likes their part andthey want, they want to know the
information, but the idea thatJesus is there from the very
first page to the very last page, yeah.
Van Harden (30:16):
Yeah, I had.
I've had several other pastorsthat I'm not a pastor, but I've
had some pastors that heard thatI have taught Revelation and
they said what suggestions canyou give me Because I'm going to
teach it?
And I always tell them the samething.
I say teach what it says andnot what it doesn't say.
All sorts of people taking allsorts of things out of there and
(30:45):
, you know, manipulating it tosay what they'd like it to say,
what they want it to say, and soI I just try to be very careful
when I teach the bible no, I,yeah.
Nancy Bruscher (30:52):
I mean.
This says that you should rightthat there's, that there's
consequences for yeah, not foradding to it or for subtracting
from it.
Van Harden (31:04):
In revelation it says you they will get the uh
consequences that have beenlisted in this book, which I
don't want.
Nancy Bruscher (31:12):
That yeah, those are heavy, those are yeah, what
do you hope people learn fromyour book?
Van Harden (31:18):
I want them to, uh, think more about Jesus, as you
just said, from beginning, fromthe very beginning, rather than
just.
You know, here's a characterthat showed up in the Bible,
like Jonah, or, you know, allthe other people that we learned
about in Sunday school class,that we learned about in Sunday
(31:40):
school class, and that what dothey owe him?
You know?
Do they understand that if itweren't for him, they wouldn't
be here at all?
And if so, how thankful arethey for that?
You know, it seems to me likewe ought to be on our knees all
(32:01):
the time, because this Jesus wasthe one that the Father used
him to create us and we wouldn'teven be here without him, and
that he said he would never,ever leave us, just like the
boys in the fiery furnace.
And if he says that, that'strue, I've often, whenever I
(32:24):
teach a Bible class, I havepeople circle when we read a
promise and I said that is apromise.
This is not a promise from aRepublican or a Democrat or a
politician, it's a promise fromGod.
So, circle that, that's job oneand number two claim it.
If God gives you a promise,then it's a good promise.
(32:48):
Claim it, so I hope people willclaim things in this book as
well.
Nancy Bruscher (32:55):
Is there one that you can think of just off
the top of your head, of thepromise and to claim it?
Van Harden (33:01):
I don't have my Bible in front of me but I hit
one in John as I was preparingfor my class and I don't
remember now what it is, but boy, they're all over the Bible.
I mean, that would be a greatstudy for somebody.
If they're depressed, gothrough, you know, name the book
.
Go through a book and circlethe promises that are in there,
(33:21):
because they are.
Nancy Bruscher (33:24):
Yeah, no, that's a good point.
That's a good point.
Well, I have really loved ourchat.
Thank you so much.
Van Harden (33:31):
Well, thank you.
I'm honored that you even askedme to do it, so be sure to say
hi to your mother.
Nancy Bruscher (33:37):
Hi Luann, While we're wrapping up, I always like
to end with these few questions.
What is your favorite Bibleverse or story?
Van Harden (33:46):
My favorite Bible verse and people say, oh, you
just like it because it's short.
Now, my favorite Bible verse isin 1 Thessalonians pray without
ceasing.
And they say, well, why wouldthat be your favorite Bible
verse?
I said because that's my goalin life.
If I could do that, I would beconnected emotionally and
(34:10):
spiritually with God all thetime.
Well, you can't pray whenyou're driving a car.
Yes, you can.
You can pray anytime.
Pray without ceasing.
So I catch myself going longperiods of time without praying
and I said you're not doing whatyou said you do.
Do you believe that or not?
(34:32):
Pray without ceasing.
Well, it's important.
So that's my favorite Bibleverse.
Is that an answer to yourquestion?
Nancy Bruscher (34:39):
Yeah, it's a great one.
I thought you might go with hewept to the very, very shortest.
When you said that someone saidyou just like it because it's
short, I would my, my son'sfavorite one right now is he
wept because it's two words yeah, well, my, it's funny because
my one of my sons was one ofthem that said you just like it
(35:01):
because it's short.
Van Harden (35:02):
And I told him yeah, mr Jesus wept, that's the one
he picked for his Christianschool, you know?
Yeah, exactly exactly.
Nancy Bruscher (35:12):
What are you grateful for?
Van Harden (35:14):
I'm just grateful for being alive and that God put
me together the way he does,and that I guess I'm grateful
for the word times to the wordJesus Christ, so I can be with
him forever, and the word theBible in black and white man.
(35:37):
Those two put together, that'sa blockbuster combination.
It really is.
I God didn't have to make aBible, he didn't.
He could have just had us outhere on our own.
He decided to give us someguidance in what I call the
owner's manual of life.
That doesn't mean you're goingto understand it all, it doesn't
(35:58):
mean you can fulfill it all,but it's there for you if you
really love God that much.
And I think that after peoplestudy, especially in the prequel
about Jesus before Bethlehem, Ithink they're going to love him
even more and that will bringmore people to Christ.
It'll bring more people toChrist and it'll bring people
(36:20):
that thought they knew Christeven closer to him.
Yeah, so that's what I'mthankful for.
Nancy Bruscher (36:26):
Oh, I love that.
What kindness have you receivedin the last week or what
kindness have you shown?
Van Harden (36:33):
I'm amazed, when I go out and about, the
compliments and encouragements Iget on a lot of things my radio
program, my Bible teaching, mywriting and boy, that's just
like fuel in the tank.
When you hear something likethat, you know you think yeah,
well, maybe this does make adifference.
So those are kindnesses Ireceive, I guess the kindness
(36:59):
that I try to give.
When I go out and about and Isee people doing their jobs,
whether it's the Department ofTransportation or the burger
place or whatever, I see a lotof people that you can just tell
that they're not real thrilledabout being there.
They just do their job throughdrudgery.
(37:20):
And I almost always try to stopand said say to them hey, I'll
bet not many people tell youthis, but you really are doing
something important here.
And on behalf of all the otherpeople that never say it, I just
want to say thank you, and it'samazing how their demeanor
(37:45):
changes in something like that.
And I I don't do it just to tryto get their attention and make
them smile, although it does.
I do it because I think that,uh, they need some fuel in their
tank too right, right.
Yeah, we were at the pharmacyyesterday and I was just looking
(38:05):
around and I thought I don'tknow if I've seen more of a
depressed place in such a longtime yeah, oh, absolutely, and I
go to the doctor from time totime and you know there's uh, I
have to orbit the buildingseveral times even to find a
parking space, and then you getin there and you see just
exactly what you just mentioned.
(38:25):
I mean, people are not wildabout being there, but they need
some uplifting oh, that's sucha good reminder, thank you you
bet well, I've loved ourconversation.
Nancy Bruscher (38:38):
I am going to link your book and your website
in the show notes so that peoplecan find you, and I'm praying
that.
Some people are saying well, Ithought I heard that, but I
didn't really know how to learnmore information, or I have
never heard anything like thisand it's just, you know, popping
off little things in theirbrain of I really want to learn
(39:01):
more about this.
Van Harden (39:02):
Yeah.
Nancy Bruscher (39:03):
Thank you for your time.
I really enjoyed ourconversation today Van.
Van Harden (39:06):
Yeah, thank you for doing this.
I don't know how you decided todo what you're doing with so
many people, but you know, Ilooked at it and I thought that
is good.
That is uplifting.
We need more of that.
Nancy Bruscher (39:19):
Thank you, I appreciate that Well.
At Ordinary People,extraordinary Things your story
is his glory.
Van Harden (39:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
Nancy Bruscher (39:28):
Thank you so much for listening.
I hope that this podcast withVan has been inspiring for you.
In two weeks, I get to talk toRachel and we get to talk about
money, tithing and generosity.
What a great conversation.
As the tax season approaches,as I said earlier, please share
this podcast with four peopletoday, right now.
(39:51):
Please do it so that others canfind ordinary people,
extraordinary things and findthe hope that they need in their
lives.
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