May 16, 2023 • 33 mins
Welcome to the first episode of our podcast. You'll get to know a few people on our team and a bit about what we're doing as we explore company values. A lot of companies talk about values, but what are they really for, and how do company values relate to our own personal values? We share our own stories and thoughts about it.
You can read our values in our public Osio Labs Employee Handbook.
You can get in touch with us to ask questions, leave comments, or provide suggestions on our website, https://osiolabs.com/.
Osio Labs is tinkering with Open Source Inside and Out. We’re on a mission to empower anyone to build websites using open source tools, and to create an open and sustainable business.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hey everybody.
This is Addison Berry, andyou're listening to the Osio
Labs podcast.
The show that explores thequestion,"how can we create
sustainable businesses that carefor people and make the world a
better place?" On today'sepisode, I'm joined by my
colleagues, Ashley Jones andAmber Matz.
This is our very first episode,and we're going to talk about
(00:24):
values.
We figured this is a good way toget to know us a little bit, and
we can dig into what we think ofas a fundamental question, when
running a business.
Where do company values comefrom?
Are they really good foranything?
We'll also look at theintersection of company values
with personal values.
How does all that work?
Let's dig into it.
Addi (00:45):
I think where I would like to start is a, it is just a
little bit of context andhistory, for our company and our
values, how our values came intobeing and exist because as Osio
Labs, we were a small team thatused to be part of a larger
company called Lullabot, andwhen we split from that and
(01:10):
became like a, a sister company,we.
Took those Lullabot valuesbecause we came from a company
that already had values and thenwe decided we would rework them
or redo our values for this newcompany and this new team that
we had.
Now in terms of like the threepeople on this, on this podcast
(01:32):
and our experiences with ourcompany values, I was at
Lullabot from the verybeginning, so I was employee
eight and we did not have valueswhen I started at Lullabot.
and then a few years, I wannasay maybe three or four years
after I joined Lullabot, thecompany was growing very
(01:53):
quickly.
And so, the owners, Matt andJeff, decided to sit down and
work out values and write themdown so that it would be clear
for existing employees and newemployees in particular when
they came in.
this is sort of what we'redoing.
and then they presented that tous as a, as a team and said,
(02:14):
asked for feedback and was like,does this stuff make sense to
you?
so that was like a strange likegoing along, having values made
up for us and then sort ofhaving a little bit of feedback.
But I wasn't part of that, thatvalue process.
Right.
Then we get to Osio Labs, wesplit off and we're like, okay,
(02:34):
we're gonna create our own.
and Amber was a part of thatteam at that point.
So Amber had come into Lullabotafter the values existed, but
then got to make the new valuesas part of Osio Labs.
Then fast forward a couple yearsand Ashley gets hired and she
gets hired into Osio Labs whoalready has their values
(02:56):
established.
So we have three differentrelationships to company values,
that are happening here.
Um, And so I'm, first I justwanna start off with, why we
even have values in our company.
And like I said, like inLullabot, the company was
(03:16):
growing in size and they wantedto make sure that the unspoken
values and reasons that we hadbehind what we were doing were
written.
so that that could be clear.
And, and passed on as it werewhen we became our own company.
(03:37):
We wanted to have our valuesthat reflected us and they were
a little different than whatLullabot had.
And I'm curious for you, Amber.
what that experience was likefor you.
Like, cuz you came into acompany that had values, which
is the most common situation, Ithink, and then you had an
(03:57):
opportunity to actually createnew values.
Was that weird for you, or wasthat like, wait, why am I
creating values?
Or were you like, no, this is anamazing opportunity.
Where, how did you fall on thatspectrum?
Amber (04:11):
I just thought it was amazing that there even values
because I don't think that atthe time it, it wasn't normal
for me.
It was not in my experience towork at a company that had that
really talked about theirvalues.
So maybe there were valuessomewhere.
(04:33):
I had no idea about them.
I didn't, they weren't broughtup, they were not part of the
company culture at all.
It was just,
Addi (04:42):
Mm-hmm.
Amber (04:43):
The, the upper management, you know, speaketh
and thus is the word.
You know, like, it was just likethat was that, that was how it
went.
So just the fact that Lull bothad values and that they were
always a part of the discussionand it was part of the culture,
like it was in, you know,whatever.
(05:08):
real-time chat software we wereusing in the earlier days, you
know, was, and it was just alllike, it was just a part of it.
It was a part of yourexperience, it was part of your
training, your onboarding andeverything.
And I was fascinated by itbecause, I came from a really
stressed out situation.
(05:29):
you know, I was, my, my job it,it was toxic to me.
It was, you know, very difficultand stressful and I was just
rapidly burning out.
And it was very nothuman-centric at all.
It was just all about generatingrevenue and, you know, trying to
(05:50):
keep, keep everything togetherand, You know, it was just kind
of a mess.
So I just, coming from no valuesto having it be really central
and having one of those centralvalues be, be human.
And it just took a real loadoff, you know, because there was
(06:10):
just so much, I felt like I wasshouldering at my previous job,
like so much stress and liketrying.
To shoulder things and keepthings moving forward so people
could keep their jobs.
And it just felt like failurewasn't an option and mistakes
weren't an option, and it just,there was just a lot of stress
and to just be valued as a humanbeing and not have this
(06:36):
micromanagement happening andthis like feeling.
Someone's always looking overyour shoulder or, or not even a
feeling, like someone literallylooking over your shoulder, you
know, working in a cubicle, youknow, layout and someone
literally walking behind you andlooking over your shoulder.
(06:57):
Very unsettling.
And so moving to a remote, ordistributed workplace where you
really had to be, you know, loblah, was really explicit about
the values and the communicationstandards.
and all of that.
It was just so, it was such arelief, to, to have all of that
written down and agreed upon,like as part of like, Your work
(07:22):
here, you, you're agreeing tothis.
And I'm like, okay, that soundsgreat and it sounds healthy.
And it's like, it just wasreally, it was a healing
experience.
Like I don't wanna get allwoowoo, you know, but it really
was a healing experience and ithelped me to, Value myself.
And, so having company valuesreally transformed how I think
(07:45):
about myself and how I thinkabout myself in the, in the
context of work.
So having a company that valuedits people and it's humans, and
helped me to, to kinda realignmy personal values and really
think about that and think,rethink how I was thinking about
myself in terms of work got meout of the survival mode of, you
(08:09):
know, and stress, survival,stress mode of a relationship
with work and into like, yeah, Ihave something.
I am a valuable person.
I'm bringing something, I'mworking with a team.
We're caring for each other,we're caring for our customers.
We're doing.
great work and we're beingreally creative about it because
(08:29):
all of that is just lined up.
So that's a bit of a ramble tosay it was a very positive
experience, like it was.
If I hadn't had that, man, Idon't know.
I don't, I don't know where Iwould be.
So I'm very, I'm very gratefulfor that Experie.
Addi (08:48):
What was it like for you, Ashley, like you came into Osio
Labs and I'm, I, I know that youhave worked for other companies
that definitely have valueswritten down somewhere,
Ashley (08:58):
Right,
Addi (08:59):
so.
Ashley (09:01):
right.
It was it.
different even from like theinterview process.
Like, because one of thequestions when you're filling
out, when I was filling out theapplication was about like which
value you resonate with most.
And off the bat I was like, ohwow, you know, this is
(09:21):
interesting.
And then it led me to obviouslygo look at the company values
and see what they are.
And I was like, oh my God.
Spread Happiness.
Like, you guys care if I'm happybecause like you said, I did, I
did come from a company withvalues, but they absolutely did
(09:41):
not care if I was happy.
Even if they said they did.
Like, I feel like my workexperience was really similar to
Amber in that it was verystressful.
I had terrible work-lifebalance.
It was a situation where youdidn't feel cared for as a
human, like you feltreplaceable.
And if you messed up, like you,you could be replaced.
(10:05):
So to come into a company whereone of the values is spread
happiness and like another valueis feed creativity, it was like,
oh, this is very different.
And, Being a part of a teamwhere, everybody is human and
everybody's human first and notjust like a number or a job
(10:29):
title, been really, reallytransformative for me too.
It's like I didn't even knowthat this existed.
Like I didn't know that therewere companies, who had values
and actually had values thatmatter.
because on top of the valuesbeing part of the application
process, like we revisit themand we check to see if they
(10:52):
still align.
And we see how our work alignswith these values.
And um, it's definitely a focusthat I had not experienced
previously, but one that I enjoyquite a bit, like it's been
wonderful.
Addi (11:09):
Yeah, I think, for a lot of people, companies have values
and they're written down in somedusty place and they aren't
actually looked at.
Most employees probably don'tknow what those values are.
And they aren't actually used.
And I think that was definitelyone of the things you know,
coming from lava and then whenwe established our own.
(11:33):
We don't wanna just write themdown The, the point is to
actually use them like withpersonal values and like I have
my own personal values and whena hard decision comes up, right,
that's where they shine.
Because at that point it's like,well, what do I truly value
here?
I need to make a decision.
What's the thing that I'm gonnafeel is right?
(11:54):
You know, in, in inside of me.
And we do the same thing withthose values.
as a company, when we have hardtimes or hard decisions to make,
we turn to our values and belike, what do the values say we
should do If, if these valuesare true?
If they're real, what?
What should we do?
Right?
And that's a really.
(12:14):
Different experience, I thinkfor almost everybody, because a
lot of companies don't revisittheir values.
They don't actually use theirvalues.
Like we use, as you said, we'veused it in hiring process.
We use it internally when wehave decisions.
We review them, at least once ayear to make sure we're all on
the same page or how do we needto clarify them and, and that
kind of thing.
(12:35):
Related to that, like thereviewing of it, Amber was part
of the, the initial team, that,that created our initial values.
And then Ashley got hired a fewyears after.
And I'm curious, for you Ashley,how do the values feel to you?
Because you weren't part oforiginally creating them, but
(12:59):
you are part of us using them.
And, and reviewing, but I'mcurious, how do you feel what do
you feel is your relationship tothem in that way?
Of, well, I didn't create these.
I like'em, but you know, there'ssomebody else's ideas, you know,
Ashley (13:16):
I mean, it's true I didn't create them.
But I think part of me likefeeling.
like I wanted to apply for therole and part of me wanting to
work for Osio Labs was thevalues and.
The way that they align, with myown, and granted some of these I
(13:40):
probably would not have thoughtof off the top of my head.
Like if somebody said, what areyour core values?
You know, I probably wouldn'tautomatically say care for
customers because
Addi (13:50):
Right.
Ashley (13:52):
you know, I'm just a human out here.
I'm not really thinking aboutcustomers, but you know, a lot
of them really do speak to, whoI am and what I believe,
personally, like spreadhappiness is a wonderful value.
I am somebody who like sees aglass half full.
I, I want everyone around me tobe happy.
(14:14):
I.
am somebody who might be alittle too perky at times.
Like I've, I've hadconversations about toxic
positivity because that is athing,
Addi (14:26):
It is, yeah.
Ashley (14:27):
it's, you know, but in reviewing the values because I
felt like there was alignmentwith who I am and what I
believe, especially, what Ibelieve for a work setting.
I felt really good about cominginto the company, like do great
work I feel like if we're gonnabe successful, we gotta do great
work.
You know what I mean?
(14:47):
So it makes sense that that'svalue.
It makes sense that that'ssomething that we, we can all be
in alignment on.
And I did feel like if I wasgonna be a part of the company
and really contribute in ameaningful way and feel good
about being a part of thecompany, that these were values
that I had to get behind.
I also, didn't feel like theywere just words on a paper.
(15:11):
Like I could tell that theymattered, and I'm going over
them now and I still feel verymuch in alignment with all of
them.
Like I, I think we have reallygreat values.
And I have seen some, somecompanies where I don't feel as
(15:32):
in alignment and it does kind ofgive me pause.
It does kind of make me saylike, huh, I saw one company
where they were very explicitlylike, we are coworkers.
We are not a family, we are notfriends.
We don't love each other.
We just work.
And it just felt very cold.
(15:52):
you know, it, it's not like Ineed it to be explicitly stated
we are a family and we hug eachother every day.
Obviously that's not the case.
But for that to be explicitlywritten in their values, all of
these things we are not, it mademe be like, well that's probably
not the place for me.
(16:12):
I wanna feel connected to myteam, you know?
And.
I felt really good coming into acompany, even though I didn't
contribute to the valuesinitially.
I did get an opportunity tovoice my opinion as we reviewed
them and, because I still,because I felt really in
(16:33):
alignment with them and becauseI still do, like, I have no
issue with it at all.
It's been great.
Addi (16:40):
Nice.
Yeah.
What, a, uh, Amber for you, ifin the list of values you had
seen a value that didn't alignwith your values or you thought
was weird, like, how would, doyou, would that have changed you
applying for a job at Lullabot,do you think?
Amber (17:04):
You know, to be honest, I think I wanted the job so badly.
I would've like, tried to changemyself to align with the values,
and I think that that's part ofthe.
The stress of when your personalvalues either aren't very well
(17:25):
defined or they run counter tothe company values, and it's
like, what kind of person am Igoing to be or am I gonna act
like when I'm on the clock, soto speak, and when I am at work?
and is that person, someone thatI can live with?
(17:47):
And it, you know, my, in my ownhead.
And, and I think that, that, itcan be really unhealthy you
know, I, I think this isprobably the case at maybe a
larger company, which I don'thave a lot of experience with
where the company values, it'sreally like, The brand.
(18:07):
And the brand is like the sacredentity that has these values and
it's brand first, you know, typeof thing and not human first.
And, we see a lot of socialproblems that result because of
this, you know, and so I, Ialways felt like if I didn't
understand a value that, what.
(18:30):
I could have a conversation withsomeone about it.
I could learn about it.
Like, why is this, you know,important and what, you know, I
had never thought about thisbefore.
Like, what does it mean to behuman?
Or what does it mean to kick assor what does it mean?
I never thought about thesethings before.
what does it mean to spreadhappiness, at work?
you know, so I always felt.
(18:54):
at Lullabot, or even here, likeas we're reviewing our values
that are retreats or whatever.
If I, if something isn'tresonating, if I'm not really
getting it, I can always talk tosomeone about it and l and
either learn more or if it comesto a point where it's you know,
this is just not sitting wellwith me anymore.
(19:14):
I can either.
bring it up in a team discussionand we can talk about it.
or I can move on.
You know, if I have a trueconflict, with it, then I feel
like at this point in my life, Idon't wanna subject myself to
the stress of being two-sidedand being one person at work.
That's a completely differentperson than who I am.
Addi (19:37):
Mm-hmm.
Amber (19:38):
Quote unquote, normally.
that doesn't really apply herebecause the values that we have
Addi (19:44):
Mm.
Amber (19:45):
dictated in our company values, you know, they really
sit well with me and, and, youknow, and I'm in agreement with
them and, and I think that theymake me a better person when I'm
exercising these values at work.
And so I just think it, it allaligns.,
Addi (20:01):
Mm.
Amber (20:02):
I.
Addi (20:03):
talking about brand, because I do think when I was
thinking how, how do companiescome up with values, right?
Like for us, we, we were a tinyteam.
I think at the time we wereeight people, maybe we're
smaller now, but still very
Amber (20:20):
thought when I, yeah.
Mm.
Addi (20:22):
and so, and so we just literally sat in a room at a.
and talked about values for aday, and sort of wrote things
down.
In most companies, that'sprobably not how it works, where
the whole company has input intothe values and, getting back to
brand, I think there are a lotof companies whose values are
created by the marketing team.
(20:43):
you know, in terms of like,These values are our brand and
we wanna make sure our brand isassociated with these values.
And that's not bad or wrongnecessarily, but it feels a
little backwards to me becauseyou, the values should come from
the people and what the, themission and what the company's
(21:06):
actually trying to achieve.
And then the brand should showthat and represent.
Ashley (21:13):
Mm-hmm.
Addi (21:14):
instead of how do we want people to perceive us, let's
write some values based on thatand then try to backtrack that
into how we actually run ourcompany.
Like it's, it's just a, youknow, a backwards way from how
we did it and how I think itshould work.
Ashley (21:28):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And I feel like for.
it was, that was reallydifferent.
because I do feel like I camefrom an organization where the
values were created by amarketing team and it was all
about the brand.
And you know, Amber talked aboutnot wanting to be a different
(21:52):
person at work and at home andif that conflict.
Existed or became too great, shewould just leave.
You know?
But, and I agree, but I think Iagree now cause I've been a part
of Osio Labs and I know that itdoesn't have to be that way, but
I think.
Initially, I, I didn't know thatit could be another way.
(22:15):
I think I just was like, youhave to have a job and sometimes
you don't like it and sometimesyou don't have fun and it
doesn't matter.
Like you, you know, you're thereto make money.
The company's there to makemoney.
At the end of the day, it allboils down to numbers and money
and.
Who cares if you're not happyabout it, you know?
But I think when you, when youwork for a company that does,
(22:37):
have values that are like livingand breathing and they stand
behind them and, you know,everybody's a human, it does
also make you feel empowered tohave your own values and stand
behind those too Like, if thisdoesn't make sense for me, then
I probably shouldn't work here.
And, I love that.
I love that for all of us now,because I definitely was not
(23:00):
that person before.
I was very much kind of likewhat Amber said, oh, well, you
know, need this job.
I guess I can fit into thevalues, you know, I can make it
work, like whatever.
Addi (23:12):
Yeah.
I think a
Ashley (23:12):
but I really like it being the other way.
Addi (23:14):
A lot of us do that in a lot of places in our life,
right?
I mean, I think this is likejust a common social.
Problem.
that we were sort of raised tojust put up and shut up and get
it done regardless of thescenario.
And of course, work takes upmost of our living time in our
(23:36):
lives, So that's like a, a, amajor place, but it happens all
over the place, right?
It happens even within familiesor, other organizations, right?
Or religions and, and thingslike that where the values
actually don't.
but you just get on with yourlife.
Like this is how it is.
You can't, you can't expectbetter.
(23:58):
So deal with what you have.
Right?
And so yeah, I think it's, Ialso have found that working in
a company that defines valuesand uses them and talks about
them has made me think aboutwhat are my values?
Like this list of value soundsawesome.
(24:20):
sure, I'll sign off on all ofthat.
But also at the same time, yeah,they're not all exactly my core
values, right?
They, there's some overlap.
Some of them totally work.
Some of'em are like, yeah,that's, that's awesome, but it's
not core or central to me.
But it really made me startthinking about it like, well,
what do I believe in then?
How, how do, how do I navigatemy life in the world, not just
(24:44):
at work, but also at home andfamily and, and organizations
I'm involved with, right?
Like, oh yeah, this value thingactually really important.
And it, it changes how you feelabout yourself.
It changes the work that you do.
It changes so many nuancedthings.
(25:06):
about our lives.
so I think having company valuesis super important for a company
to have guidelines to help steerthe ship.
but I also think it's reallyimportant for people and
employees to be exposed to a, a,good application of values,
(25:28):
right?
Instead of just like the wholebrand written down thing, but.
To actually just cuz yeah, maybethey don't align and maybe
that's a good thing for you tolearn.
If someone on our team, or apotential employee who we really
wanted to hire for instance wasyou know, this is all good, but
this is not, this does not jivewith me.
(25:50):
Or I feel like this is, there'ssomething missing here and it
doesn't really fit for me.
I would totally respect that.
I'd be like that's awesome.
That's awesome that yourecognize that.
And, and I would do whatever Ican.
If you feel like you need tomove on, then let's, let's
figure out how to find a placethat would be a better match for
you.
Ashley (26:08):
Mm-hmm.
Addi (26:09):
of screw you and your little dog too.
right.
So I, yeah, I just think it'slike an important, because
people spend so many much oftheir lives at work.
Ashley (26:18):
right.
Addi (26:19):
being exposed to values and values that matter, and
values that are actuallyapplied.
I think is is also a, I don'tknow, I, it ends up sounding
weird.
Almost like a gift though,right?
Because I certainly had neverreally interrogated my own
values until I was confrontedwith values that were being
questioned and applied, and Iwas like, oh, oh, that's what
(26:41):
you do with values.
Okay, cool.
I can work.
yeah.
Amber (26:48):
I was thinking back to when we were working on our
values, for you.
When we, when we split off fromLullabot and it was novel for
all of us, if I recall.
And we, we did, I think we, wemight have done a workbook or
read a book together orsomething like that.
But I just remember spendingsome time like, what is this
(27:12):
whole personal values thing?
Like what does this even mean?
And we, I think, you know, Iremember individually doing
this, but I think a lot of us,we, we dug into it cuz it was
novel.
It was.
Yeah.
We're, we're taking thisseriously, and, but what is it
Addi (27:29):
Right, right.
Amber (27:30):
like a great idea, but what do we even mean by this?
And, and it, you know, so it, itwasn't this automatic thing, of
course, you know, we have valuesand we know what they are and
we, we totally know who we areas people and individuals and
how we fit.
You know, none of that, none ofthose questions were answered.
It really took a lot.
(27:51):
you know, to think about and totalk about what do we mean by
this?
And how do I even know if my, ifI align with these values, what
are my values?
There's nothing to compare you
Addi (28:01):
and and you had
Amber (28:02):
very interesting.
Addi (28:03):
a group of people and we had to get values that we could
all agree to,
Amber (28:08):
Yeah.
Addi (28:08):
Like there had to be the overlap, you know, we had to
figure, figure it out becauseobviously we all would have
different personal values, so weneeded to find.
Ones that overlapped in thesense that we could all get
behind that value, whether ornot it was a personal value for
us, that it wasn't counter toany of our personal values.
(28:29):
Right?
That it's just like, yeah, no, Idon't actually believe in that
and of course also, and thenhaving to step back and also
look at it from a companyperspective of the company has
a, a mission and a vision.
and what values would support usachieving that and don't
conflict with our personalvalues.
(28:51):
Right.
So yeah, it was like a lot of, alot of thinking and a lot of
reflection going on.
For sure.
And, and it, I think this stillhappens to a lesser degree at
our retreats.
when we review our values and wesit and we think about it and
like, does this still soundgood?
And we have mod mademodifications to the values over
(29:11):
the years in terms of, I feellike this is something we do
value, but it's not reflected inthe values.
Or This value sounds kind offlat.
What does this really mean?
so we've definitely had thosekinds of conversations.
And it's an ongoing process cuzwe've also changed, right?
Osseo Labs has been around forseven years now.
So, you know, people change.
(29:33):
The company has changed, somany, so many things keep
changing.
we don't change our values, thatquickly, but I do think that
checking in and reevaluatingthem and, and, and really
thinking about them, keeps uscurrent with what's actually
going.
with us instead of just, allright, we set these values 10
years ago, everybody's justrolling along.
(29:54):
You know, it's like, well, Imean, that can work and our
values are, are essentiallyunchanged.
but I think, little refinementsand smaller nuances and things
like that are keeping it,keeping them relevant to who we
are now as a company.
and so that's, It's, it's, it'sall a fascinating process, I
have to say, personally and asa, you know, being part of a
(30:16):
company and trying to make acompany succeed.
Ashley (30:21):
Oh yeah, I, I just had a question for you guys, cuz you,
you guys made, you were part ofthe making of the values for
Osio Labs.
and I feel like the options areso vast, and they could be so
many things.
How did you guys come up withthese?
(30:41):
How did you.
Addi (30:42):
Hmm.
Ashley (30:43):
hone in on these and
Addi (30:45):
Well, we, we
Ashley (30:46):
did we get here?
Addi (30:47):
we had a little starter pack, right?
We had, we had a little cheatbecause we came from Lullabot,
so, So we had the Lullabotvalues and, and we did do a
whole bunch of here is a hugelist of values.
You know, pick things out ofthese that, that are meaningful,
right?
so we did do that kind of thingand then see where there was
(31:07):
alignment.
But we also had this, the, theoriginal values from Lullabot.
and you can see that they arerelated when you compare the,
values side by side.
But we modified them.
To better match or to to beclearer for us.
I remember one of the, one ofthe values at Lullabot is have
(31:29):
fun and that ended up becomingspread happiness for us.
And you know, those are, you cansee how they're related, but
they are very different in theirterminology and their meaning.
and it's not that have fun is abad value, but spread happiness
fit us better in terms of whatwe valued about.
(31:52):
Have fun.
Like what was it about?
Have fun.
So anyway, we had a little cheatpack, to kind of get us,
started.
But we did actually still justgo through here's a whole list
of values and what of these aremeaningful to you and, and all
of, all of that good stuff.
yeah, it's not, it's a, it's nota short process
Ashley (32:14):
No, it doesn't sound like it.
Addi (32:17):
Yeah, we should, I guess we should probably wrap this up.
Um, cuz Wow.
Um, it's
Amber (32:24):
that went by
Addi (32:25):
time is moving on.
Yeah.
So we'll wrap this one up Andthanks for joining me for this
episode.
Hey, so thanks for listening andlet us know if you have
questions, comments, orsuggestions for what you'd like
to hear more about.
You can find all of the variousways to reach us on our website
(32:46):
at osiolabs.com.
That's O S I O L A B S.com.
Also, please make sure tosubscribe to the podcast on your
podcast provider of choice.
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
Hey everybody.
This is Addison Berry, andyou're listening to the Osio
Labs podcast.
The show that explores thequestion,"how can we create
sustainable businesses that carefor people and make the world a
better place?" On today'sepisode, I'm joined by my
colleagues, Ashley Jones andAmber Matz.
This is our very first episode,and we're going to talk about
(00:24):
values.
We figured this is a good way toget to know us a little bit, and
we can dig into what we think ofas a fundamental question, when
running a business.
Where do company values comefrom?
Are they really good foranything?
We'll also look at theintersection of company values
with personal values.
How does all that work?
Let's dig into it.
Addi (00:45):
I think where I would like to start is a, it is just a
little bit of context andhistory, for our company and our
values, how our values came intobeing and exist because as Osio
Labs, we were a small team thatused to be part of a larger
company called Lullabot, andwhen we split from that and
(01:10):
became like a, a sister company,we.
Took those Lullabot valuesbecause we came from a company
that already had values and thenwe decided we would rework them
or redo our values for this newcompany and this new team that
we had.
Now in terms of like the threepeople on this, on this podcast
(01:32):
and our experiences with ourcompany values, I was at
Lullabot from the verybeginning, so I was employee
eight and we did not have valueswhen I started at Lullabot.
and then a few years, I wannasay maybe three or four years
after I joined Lullabot, thecompany was growing very
(01:53):
quickly.
And so, the owners, Matt andJeff, decided to sit down and
work out values and write themdown so that it would be clear
for existing employees and newemployees in particular when
they came in.
this is sort of what we'redoing.
and then they presented that tous as a, as a team and said,
(02:14):
asked for feedback and was like,does this stuff make sense to
you?
so that was like a strange likegoing along, having values made
up for us and then sort ofhaving a little bit of feedback.
But I wasn't part of that, thatvalue process.
Right.
Then we get to Osio Labs, wesplit off and we're like, okay,
(02:34):
we're gonna create our own.
and Amber was a part of thatteam at that point.
So Amber had come into Lullabotafter the values existed, but
then got to make the new valuesas part of Osio Labs.
Then fast forward a couple yearsand Ashley gets hired and she
gets hired into Osio Labs whoalready has their values
(02:56):
established.
So we have three differentrelationships to company values,
that are happening here.
Um, And so I'm, first I justwanna start off with, why we
even have values in our company.
And like I said, like inLullabot, the company was
(03:16):
growing in size and they wantedto make sure that the unspoken
values and reasons that we hadbehind what we were doing were
written.
so that that could be clear.
And, and passed on as it werewhen we became our own company.
(03:37):
We wanted to have our valuesthat reflected us and they were
a little different than whatLullabot had.
And I'm curious for you, Amber.
what that experience was likefor you.
Like, cuz you came into acompany that had values, which
is the most common situation, Ithink, and then you had an
(03:57):
opportunity to actually createnew values.
Was that weird for you, or wasthat like, wait, why am I
creating values?
Or were you like, no, this is anamazing opportunity.
Where, how did you fall on thatspectrum?
Amber (04:11):
I just thought it was amazing that there even values
because I don't think that atthe time it, it wasn't normal
for me.
It was not in my experience towork at a company that had that
really talked about theirvalues.
So maybe there were valuessomewhere.
(04:33):
I had no idea about them.
I didn't, they weren't broughtup, they were not part of the
company culture at all.
It was just,
Addi (04:42):
Mm-hmm.
Amber (04:43):
The, the upper management, you know, speaketh
and thus is the word.
You know, like, it was just likethat was that, that was how it
went.
So just the fact that Lull bothad values and that they were
always a part of the discussionand it was part of the culture,
like it was in, you know,whatever.
(05:08):
real-time chat software we wereusing in the earlier days, you
know, was, and it was just alllike, it was just a part of it.
It was a part of yourexperience, it was part of your
training, your onboarding andeverything.
And I was fascinated by itbecause, I came from a really
stressed out situation.
(05:29):
you know, I was, my, my job it,it was toxic to me.
It was, you know, very difficultand stressful and I was just
rapidly burning out.
And it was very nothuman-centric at all.
It was just all about generatingrevenue and, you know, trying to
(05:50):
keep, keep everything togetherand, You know, it was just kind
of a mess.
So I just, coming from no valuesto having it be really central
and having one of those centralvalues be, be human.
And it just took a real loadoff, you know, because there was
(06:10):
just so much, I felt like I wasshouldering at my previous job,
like so much stress and liketrying.
To shoulder things and keepthings moving forward so people
could keep their jobs.
And it just felt like failurewasn't an option and mistakes
weren't an option, and it just,there was just a lot of stress
and to just be valued as a humanbeing and not have this
(06:36):
micromanagement happening andthis like feeling.
Someone's always looking overyour shoulder or, or not even a
feeling, like someone literallylooking over your shoulder, you
know, working in a cubicle, youknow, layout and someone
literally walking behind you andlooking over your shoulder.
(06:57):
Very unsettling.
And so moving to a remote, ordistributed workplace where you
really had to be, you know, loblah, was really explicit about
the values and the communicationstandards.
and all of that.
It was just so, it was such arelief, to, to have all of that
written down and agreed upon,like as part of like, Your work
(07:22):
here, you, you're agreeing tothis.
And I'm like, okay, that soundsgreat and it sounds healthy.
And it's like, it just wasreally, it was a healing
experience.
Like I don't wanna get allwoowoo, you know, but it really
was a healing experience and ithelped me to, Value myself.
And, so having company valuesreally transformed how I think
(07:45):
about myself and how I thinkabout myself in the, in the
context of work.
So having a company that valuedits people and it's humans, and
helped me to, to kinda realignmy personal values and really
think about that and think,rethink how I was thinking about
myself in terms of work got meout of the survival mode of, you
(08:09):
know, and stress, survival,stress mode of a relationship
with work and into like, yeah, Ihave something.
I am a valuable person.
I'm bringing something, I'mworking with a team.
We're caring for each other,we're caring for our customers.
We're doing.
great work and we're beingreally creative about it because
(08:29):
all of that is just lined up.
So that's a bit of a ramble tosay it was a very positive
experience, like it was.
If I hadn't had that, man, Idon't know.
I don't, I don't know where Iwould be.
So I'm very, I'm very gratefulfor that Experie.
Addi (08:48):
What was it like for you, Ashley, like you came into Osio
Labs and I'm, I, I know that youhave worked for other companies
that definitely have valueswritten down somewhere,
Ashley (08:58):
Right,
Addi (08:59):
so.
Ashley (09:01):
right.
It was it.
different even from like theinterview process.
Like, because one of thequestions when you're filling
out, when I was filling out theapplication was about like which
value you resonate with most.
And off the bat I was like, ohwow, you know, this is
(09:21):
interesting.
And then it led me to obviouslygo look at the company values
and see what they are.
And I was like, oh my God.
Spread Happiness.
Like, you guys care if I'm happybecause like you said, I did, I
did come from a company withvalues, but they absolutely did
(09:41):
not care if I was happy.
Even if they said they did.
Like, I feel like my workexperience was really similar to
Amber in that it was verystressful.
I had terrible work-lifebalance.
It was a situation where youdidn't feel cared for as a
human, like you feltreplaceable.
And if you messed up, like you,you could be replaced.
(10:05):
So to come into a company whereone of the values is spread
happiness and like another valueis feed creativity, it was like,
oh, this is very different.
And, Being a part of a teamwhere, everybody is human and
everybody's human first and notjust like a number or a job
(10:29):
title, been really, reallytransformative for me too.
It's like I didn't even knowthat this existed.
Like I didn't know that therewere companies, who had values
and actually had values thatmatter.
because on top of the valuesbeing part of the application
process, like we revisit themand we check to see if they
(10:52):
still align.
And we see how our work alignswith these values.
And um, it's definitely a focusthat I had not experienced
previously, but one that I enjoyquite a bit, like it's been
wonderful.
Addi (11:09):
Yeah, I think, for a lot of people, companies have values
and they're written down in somedusty place and they aren't
actually looked at.
Most employees probably don'tknow what those values are.
And they aren't actually used.
And I think that was definitelyone of the things you know,
coming from lava and then whenwe established our own.
(11:33):
We don't wanna just write themdown The, the point is to
actually use them like withpersonal values and like I have
my own personal values and whena hard decision comes up, right,
that's where they shine.
Because at that point it's like,well, what do I truly value
here?
I need to make a decision.
What's the thing that I'm gonnafeel is right?
(11:54):
You know, in, in inside of me.
And we do the same thing withthose values.
as a company, when we have hardtimes or hard decisions to make,
we turn to our values and belike, what do the values say we
should do If, if these valuesare true?
If they're real, what?
What should we do?
Right?
And that's a really.
(12:14):
Different experience, I thinkfor almost everybody, because a
lot of companies don't revisittheir values.
They don't actually use theirvalues.
Like we use, as you said, we'veused it in hiring process.
We use it internally when wehave decisions.
We review them, at least once ayear to make sure we're all on
the same page or how do we needto clarify them and, and that
kind of thing.
(12:35):
Related to that, like thereviewing of it, Amber was part
of the, the initial team, that,that created our initial values.
And then Ashley got hired a fewyears after.
And I'm curious, for you Ashley,how do the values feel to you?
Because you weren't part oforiginally creating them, but
(12:59):
you are part of us using them.
And, and reviewing, but I'mcurious, how do you feel what do
you feel is your relationship tothem in that way?
Of, well, I didn't create these.
I like'em, but you know, there'ssomebody else's ideas, you know,
Ashley (13:16):
I mean, it's true I didn't create them.
But I think part of me likefeeling.
like I wanted to apply for therole and part of me wanting to
work for Osio Labs was thevalues and.
The way that they align, with myown, and granted some of these I
(13:40):
probably would not have thoughtof off the top of my head.
Like if somebody said, what areyour core values?
You know, I probably wouldn'tautomatically say care for
customers because
Addi (13:50):
Right.
Ashley (13:52):
you know, I'm just a human out here.
I'm not really thinking aboutcustomers, but you know, a lot
of them really do speak to, whoI am and what I believe,
personally, like spreadhappiness is a wonderful value.
I am somebody who like sees aglass half full.
I, I want everyone around me tobe happy.
(14:14):
I.
am somebody who might be alittle too perky at times.
Like I've, I've hadconversations about toxic
positivity because that is athing,
Addi (14:26):
It is, yeah.
Ashley (14:27):
it's, you know, but in reviewing the values because I
felt like there was alignmentwith who I am and what I
believe, especially, what Ibelieve for a work setting.
I felt really good about cominginto the company, like do great
work I feel like if we're gonnabe successful, we gotta do great
work.
You know what I mean?
(14:47):
So it makes sense that that'svalue.
It makes sense that that'ssomething that we, we can all be
in alignment on.
And I did feel like if I wasgonna be a part of the company
and really contribute in ameaningful way and feel good
about being a part of thecompany, that these were values
that I had to get behind.
I also, didn't feel like theywere just words on a paper.
(15:11):
Like I could tell that theymattered, and I'm going over
them now and I still feel verymuch in alignment with all of
them.
Like I, I think we have reallygreat values.
And I have seen some, somecompanies where I don't feel as
(15:32):
in alignment and it does kind ofgive me pause.
It does kind of make me saylike, huh, I saw one company
where they were very explicitlylike, we are coworkers.
We are not a family, we are notfriends.
We don't love each other.
We just work.
And it just felt very cold.
(15:52):
you know, it, it's not like Ineed it to be explicitly stated
we are a family and we hug eachother every day.
Obviously that's not the case.
But for that to be explicitlywritten in their values, all of
these things we are not, it mademe be like, well that's probably
not the place for me.
(16:12):
I wanna feel connected to myteam, you know?
And.
I felt really good coming into acompany, even though I didn't
contribute to the valuesinitially.
I did get an opportunity tovoice my opinion as we reviewed
them and, because I still,because I felt really in
(16:33):
alignment with them and becauseI still do, like, I have no
issue with it at all.
It's been great.
Addi (16:40):
Nice.
Yeah.
What, a, uh, Amber for you, ifin the list of values you had
seen a value that didn't alignwith your values or you thought
was weird, like, how would, doyou, would that have changed you
applying for a job at Lullabot,do you think?
Amber (17:04):
You know, to be honest, I think I wanted the job so badly.
I would've like, tried to changemyself to align with the values,
and I think that that's part ofthe.
The stress of when your personalvalues either aren't very well
(17:25):
defined or they run counter tothe company values, and it's
like, what kind of person am Igoing to be or am I gonna act
like when I'm on the clock, soto speak, and when I am at work?
and is that person, someone thatI can live with?
(17:47):
And it, you know, my, in my ownhead.
And, and I think that, that, itcan be really unhealthy you
know, I, I think this isprobably the case at maybe a
larger company, which I don'thave a lot of experience with
where the company values, it'sreally like, The brand.
(18:07):
And the brand is like the sacredentity that has these values and
it's brand first, you know, typeof thing and not human first.
And, we see a lot of socialproblems that result because of
this, you know, and so I, Ialways felt like if I didn't
understand a value that, what.
(18:30):
I could have a conversation withsomeone about it.
I could learn about it.
Like, why is this, you know,important and what, you know, I
had never thought about thisbefore.
Like, what does it mean to behuman?
Or what does it mean to kick assor what does it mean?
I never thought about thesethings before.
what does it mean to spreadhappiness, at work?
you know, so I always felt.
(18:54):
at Lullabot, or even here, likeas we're reviewing our values
that are retreats or whatever.
If I, if something isn'tresonating, if I'm not really
getting it, I can always talk tosomeone about it and l and
either learn more or if it comesto a point where it's you know,
this is just not sitting wellwith me anymore.
(19:14):
I can either.
bring it up in a team discussionand we can talk about it.
or I can move on.
You know, if I have a trueconflict, with it, then I feel
like at this point in my life, Idon't wanna subject myself to
the stress of being two-sidedand being one person at work.
That's a completely differentperson than who I am.
Addi (19:37):
Mm-hmm.
Amber (19:38):
Quote unquote, normally.
that doesn't really apply herebecause the values that we have
Addi (19:44):
Mm.
Amber (19:45):
dictated in our company values, you know, they really
sit well with me and, and, youknow, and I'm in agreement with
them and, and I think that theymake me a better person when I'm
exercising these values at work.
And so I just think it, it allaligns.,
Addi (20:01):
Mm.
Amber (20:02):
I.
Addi (20:03):
talking about brand, because I do think when I was
thinking how, how do companiescome up with values, right?
Like for us, we, we were a tinyteam.
I think at the time we wereeight people, maybe we're
smaller now, but still very
Amber (20:20):
thought when I, yeah.
Mm.
Addi (20:22):
and so, and so we just literally sat in a room at a.
and talked about values for aday, and sort of wrote things
down.
In most companies, that'sprobably not how it works, where
the whole company has input intothe values and, getting back to
brand, I think there are a lotof companies whose values are
created by the marketing team.
(20:43):
you know, in terms of like,These values are our brand and
we wanna make sure our brand isassociated with these values.
And that's not bad or wrongnecessarily, but it feels a
little backwards to me becauseyou, the values should come from
the people and what the, themission and what the company's
(21:06):
actually trying to achieve.
And then the brand should showthat and represent.
Ashley (21:13):
Mm-hmm.
Addi (21:14):
instead of how do we want people to perceive us, let's
write some values based on thatand then try to backtrack that
into how we actually run ourcompany.
Like it's, it's just a, youknow, a backwards way from how
we did it and how I think itshould work.
Ashley (21:28):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And I feel like for.
it was, that was reallydifferent.
because I do feel like I camefrom an organization where the
values were created by amarketing team and it was all
about the brand.
And you know, Amber talked aboutnot wanting to be a different
(21:52):
person at work and at home andif that conflict.
Existed or became too great, shewould just leave.
You know?
But, and I agree, but I think Iagree now cause I've been a part
of Osio Labs and I know that itdoesn't have to be that way, but
I think.
Initially, I, I didn't know thatit could be another way.
(22:15):
I think I just was like, youhave to have a job and sometimes
you don't like it and sometimesyou don't have fun and it
doesn't matter.
Like you, you know, you're thereto make money.
The company's there to makemoney.
At the end of the day, it allboils down to numbers and money
and.
Who cares if you're not happyabout it, you know?
But I think when you, when youwork for a company that does,
(22:37):
have values that are like livingand breathing and they stand
behind them and, you know,everybody's a human, it does
also make you feel empowered tohave your own values and stand
behind those too Like, if thisdoesn't make sense for me, then
I probably shouldn't work here.
And, I love that.
I love that for all of us now,because I definitely was not
(23:00):
that person before.
I was very much kind of likewhat Amber said, oh, well, you
know, need this job.
I guess I can fit into thevalues, you know, I can make it
work, like whatever.
Addi (23:12):
Yeah.
I think a
Ashley (23:12):
but I really like it being the other way.
Addi (23:14):
A lot of us do that in a lot of places in our life,
right?
I mean, I think this is likejust a common social.
Problem.
that we were sort of raised tojust put up and shut up and get
it done regardless of thescenario.
And of course, work takes upmost of our living time in our
(23:36):
lives, So that's like a, a, amajor place, but it happens all
over the place, right?
It happens even within familiesor, other organizations, right?
Or religions and, and thingslike that where the values
actually don't.
but you just get on with yourlife.
Like this is how it is.
You can't, you can't expectbetter.
(23:58):
So deal with what you have.
Right?
And so yeah, I think it's, Ialso have found that working in
a company that defines valuesand uses them and talks about
them has made me think aboutwhat are my values?
Like this list of value soundsawesome.
(24:20):
sure, I'll sign off on all ofthat.
But also at the same time, yeah,they're not all exactly my core
values, right?
They, there's some overlap.
Some of them totally work.
Some of'em are like, yeah,that's, that's awesome, but it's
not core or central to me.
But it really made me startthinking about it like, well,
what do I believe in then?
How, how do, how do I navigatemy life in the world, not just
(24:44):
at work, but also at home andfamily and, and organizations
I'm involved with, right?
Like, oh yeah, this value thingactually really important.
And it, it changes how you feelabout yourself.
It changes the work that you do.
It changes so many nuancedthings.
(25:06):
about our lives.
so I think having company valuesis super important for a company
to have guidelines to help steerthe ship.
but I also think it's reallyimportant for people and
employees to be exposed to a, a,good application of values,
(25:28):
right?
Instead of just like the wholebrand written down thing, but.
To actually just cuz yeah, maybethey don't align and maybe
that's a good thing for you tolearn.
If someone on our team, or apotential employee who we really
wanted to hire for instance wasyou know, this is all good, but
this is not, this does not jivewith me.
(25:50):
Or I feel like this is, there'ssomething missing here and it
doesn't really fit for me.
I would totally respect that.
I'd be like that's awesome.
That's awesome that yourecognize that.
And, and I would do whatever Ican.
If you feel like you need tomove on, then let's, let's
figure out how to find a placethat would be a better match for
you.
Ashley (26:08):
Mm-hmm.
Addi (26:09):
of screw you and your little dog too.
right.
So I, yeah, I just think it'slike an important, because
people spend so many much oftheir lives at work.
Ashley (26:18):
right.
Addi (26:19):
being exposed to values and values that matter, and
values that are actuallyapplied.
I think is is also a, I don'tknow, I, it ends up sounding
weird.
Almost like a gift though,right?
Because I certainly had neverreally interrogated my own
values until I was confrontedwith values that were being
questioned and applied, and Iwas like, oh, oh, that's what
(26:41):
you do with values.
Okay, cool.
I can work.
yeah.
Amber (26:48):
I was thinking back to when we were working on our
values, for you.
When we, when we split off fromLullabot and it was novel for
all of us, if I recall.
And we, we did, I think we, wemight have done a workbook or
read a book together orsomething like that.
But I just remember spendingsome time like, what is this
(27:12):
whole personal values thing?
Like what does this even mean?
And we, I think, you know, Iremember individually doing
this, but I think a lot of us,we, we dug into it cuz it was
novel.
It was.
Yeah.
We're, we're taking thisseriously, and, but what is it
Addi (27:29):
Right, right.
Amber (27:30):
like a great idea, but what do we even mean by this?
And, and it, you know, so it, itwasn't this automatic thing, of
course, you know, we have valuesand we know what they are and
we, we totally know who we areas people and individuals and
how we fit.
You know, none of that, none ofthose questions were answered.
It really took a lot.
(27:51):
you know, to think about and totalk about what do we mean by
this?
And how do I even know if my, ifI align with these values, what
are my values?
There's nothing to compare you
Addi (28:01):
and and you had
Amber (28:02):
very interesting.
Addi (28:03):
a group of people and we had to get values that we could
all agree to,
Amber (28:08):
Yeah.
Addi (28:08):
Like there had to be the overlap, you know, we had to
figure, figure it out becauseobviously we all would have
different personal values, so weneeded to find.
Ones that overlapped in thesense that we could all get
behind that value, whether ornot it was a personal value for
us, that it wasn't counter toany of our personal values.
(28:29):
Right?
That it's just like, yeah, no, Idon't actually believe in that
and of course also, and thenhaving to step back and also
look at it from a companyperspective of the company has
a, a mission and a vision.
and what values would support usachieving that and don't
conflict with our personalvalues.
(28:51):
Right.
So yeah, it was like a lot of, alot of thinking and a lot of
reflection going on.
For sure.
And, and it, I think this stillhappens to a lesser degree at
our retreats.
when we review our values and wesit and we think about it and
like, does this still soundgood?
And we have mod mademodifications to the values over
(29:11):
the years in terms of, I feellike this is something we do
value, but it's not reflected inthe values.
Or This value sounds kind offlat.
What does this really mean?
so we've definitely had thosekinds of conversations.
And it's an ongoing process cuzwe've also changed, right?
Osseo Labs has been around forseven years now.
So, you know, people change.
(29:33):
The company has changed, somany, so many things keep
changing.
we don't change our values, thatquickly, but I do think that
checking in and reevaluatingthem and, and, and really
thinking about them, keeps uscurrent with what's actually
going.
with us instead of just, allright, we set these values 10
years ago, everybody's justrolling along.
(29:54):
You know, it's like, well, Imean, that can work and our
values are, are essentiallyunchanged.
but I think, little refinementsand smaller nuances and things
like that are keeping it,keeping them relevant to who we
are now as a company.
and so that's, It's, it's, it'sall a fascinating process, I
have to say, personally and asa, you know, being part of a
(30:16):
company and trying to make acompany succeed.
Ashley (30:21):
Oh yeah, I, I just had a question for you guys, cuz you,
you guys made, you were part ofthe making of the values for
Osio Labs.
and I feel like the options areso vast, and they could be so
many things.
How did you guys come up withthese?
(30:41):
How did you.
Addi (30:42):
Hmm.
Ashley (30:43):
hone in on these and
Addi (30:45):
Well, we, we
Ashley (30:46):
did we get here?
Addi (30:47):
we had a little starter pack, right?
We had, we had a little cheatbecause we came from Lullabot,
so, So we had the Lullabotvalues and, and we did do a
whole bunch of here is a hugelist of values.
You know, pick things out ofthese that, that are meaningful,
right?
so we did do that kind of thingand then see where there was
(31:07):
alignment.
But we also had this, the, theoriginal values from Lullabot.
and you can see that they arerelated when you compare the,
values side by side.
But we modified them.
To better match or to to beclearer for us.
I remember one of the, one ofthe values at Lullabot is have
(31:29):
fun and that ended up becomingspread happiness for us.
And you know, those are, you cansee how they're related, but
they are very different in theirterminology and their meaning.
and it's not that have fun is abad value, but spread happiness
fit us better in terms of whatwe valued about.
(31:52):
Have fun.
Like what was it about?
Have fun.
So anyway, we had a little cheatpack, to kind of get us,
started.
But we did actually still justgo through here's a whole list
of values and what of these aremeaningful to you and, and all
of, all of that good stuff.
yeah, it's not, it's a, it's nota short process
Ashley (32:14):
No, it doesn't sound like it.
Addi (32:17):
Yeah, we should, I guess we should probably wrap this up.
Um, cuz Wow.
Um, it's
Amber (32:24):
that went by
Addi (32:25):
time is moving on.
Yeah.
So we'll wrap this one up Andthanks for joining me for this
episode.
Hey, so thanks for listening andlet us know if you have
questions, comments, orsuggestions for what you'd like
to hear more about.
You can find all of the variousways to reach us on our website
(32:46):
at osiolabs.com.
That's O S I O L A B S.com.
Also, please make sure tosubscribe to the podcast on your
podcast provider of choice.
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.