October 17, 2023 • 27 mins
This episode, with Ashley and Addi, is a book chat about The Gifts of Imperfection by Brené Brown. This was her third published book and is the one she recommends for people to start with on her work. It’s about embracing who we are versus who we think we’re supposed to be. She calls it an invitation to the wholehearted revolution. In her words, “choosing authenticity and worthiness is an absolute act of resistance”.
Join us as we talk about our takeaways and which of the ten guideposts in the book most resonated with us and why.
You can get in touch with us to ask questions, leave comments, or provide suggestions on our website, https://osiolabs.com/.
Osio Labs is tinkering with Open Source Inside and Out. We’re on a mission to empower anyone to build websites using open source tools, and to create an open and sustainable business.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Addi (00:00):
Hey everybody.
This is Addison Berry, andyou're listening to the Osio
Labs podcast.
The show that explores thequestion,"how can we create
sustainable businesses that carefor people and make the world a
better place?" On today'sepisode, I'm joined by my
colleague, Ashley Jones.
This is episode number eight,which is a book chat about The
Gifts of Imperfection by BrenéBrown.
(00:22):
Now, this was Brené's thirdpublished book and is the one
that she recommends for peopleto start with on her work if
you've not read any of her otherbooks yet.
It's a book about embracing whowe are versus who we think we're
supposed to be.
She calls it an invitation tothe whole hearted revolution.
In her words,"choosingauthenticity and worthiness.
(00:43):
It's an absolute act ofresistance".
The book covers some of herearlier work on shame and her
definitions of a wholeheartedlife before it dives into 10
guideposts to walk you throughsome important points to ponder
and then act on.
And those are (01:00):
Authenticity.
Self-compassion.
Resilient spirit.
Gratitude and joy.
Intuition and trusting faith.
Creativity.
Play and rest.
Calm and stillness.
Meaningful work.
(01:21):
And then the last is Laughter,song and dance.
Let's just dive into it and, andtalk about The Gifts of
Imperfection.
What was your overall impressionof this book?
And would you recommend it ornot?
Ashley (01:42):
I really enjoyed this book and I would definitely
recommend it and I feel like Iwould recommend it to just about
anyone,
Addi (01:54):
Mm hmm.
Ashley (01:54):
whether like you feel like you have it totally
together and you're not reallyinto self help or, you know, you
really enjoy self help books andyou're like on this journey.
Personal improvement.
I feel like there's something inthis book for everyone, for
sure.
I loved it.
What did you think?
Addi (02:15):
Yeah, I mean I I loved it.
It's I I read this book manyyears ago And so this was like a
rereading for me and I loved itthe first time I read it and
It's interesting like the wholeself help thing because it's
certainly You know, I guess thekind of book it is and where you
would find it in a bookstore orsomething like that but I feel
like this one is It feels more Idon't know The word that comes
(02:36):
to mind for me is just real.
Like it's less about fixingthings on the surface and it's
more about.
Really digging deep into who youare, in a way that's, it's,
it's, I feel like it's more likea psychology or therapy than
self help or something, youknow, because it's, it's really
(02:56):
kind of digs pretty deep, Ithink, into some really cool
things and also still has actionitems, you know, at the end of
each.
Guidepost or whatever orsomething for you to think about
or explore a little bit more butyeah, I loved it and it really I
feel like so much of the bookreally resonates for me and In
(03:17):
the years since I read it thefirst time I have Made a lot of
changes in my life and I havedone a lot of work And so it's
really interesting to be like,yep.
She's she's she's right likethis is
Ashley (03:30):
hmm.
Addi (03:31):
This is like real deal stuff and if you do work on it
and change things like it, itjust like sort of fundamentally
changes the way that you movethrough the world.
So, yeah, I love it.
And I, I definitely wouldrecommend it to anybody because
it just has some really, evenif, and even if you don't read
the whole book and take it allin and, and, you know, And jive
(03:52):
with the whole thing.
I feel like there's something,like you said, there's sort of
something in there for everyone.
There's going to be some sliceof this that you're like, Oh,
yeah, I feel what she's sayingright there.
Ashley (04:04):
Mm hmm.
Addi (04:06):
because she covers a lot of ground, like in a short.
Book, like it's not that long,but it's like a lot of punches.
Ashley (04:16):
Yes, agreed.
And she makes it reallyanecdotal almost, like it
doesn't, it doesn't feel preachyor, you know, finger pointy.
She is talking to you about herexperiences and what she's
learned from these experiences.
And like, Mm hmm.
How she thinks about things andhow she's learned from her, you
(04:38):
know what I mean?
Like, and how it could help youin the future.
It doesn't, I really liked it.
I like her approach, and I willdefinitely be reading more of
her books.
This is my first one, um.
Addi (04:49):
hmm.
Ashley (04:50):
from Brené Brown, but I see that she she's done quite a
bit.
So
Addi (04:55):
Yeah, there are a lot of like stories and examples a lot
of them are from her life butfrom other people too and that
yeah, there's I guess you getthis sense of She's looked at
this stuff a lot, and she'slearned a lot, and she's sharing
that with you, yet she alsodoesn't have it all figured out
yet.
Ashley (05:10):
exactly.
Addi (05:11):
Like, she's still bumping around in the dark, too, and
it's okay to bump around in thedark about this stuff.
Ashley (05:20):
She even talks about when she slips into her old
patterns and what she uses toget herself back on track and
it's like, okay, so you don'tyou don't ever just arrive
because I feel like, I feellike, you know, I don't know if
other people feel like this, butsometimes I'm just like, man,
when can I just like, get there?
(05:42):
When can I just be the thing?
But it's, you know, I alsounderstand that that is not the
case, but it does feel nice toknow that it's not the case,
even for the people writing thebooks about it, you know,
Addi (05:54):
Exactly.
It's a lifelong journey.
Like, it just, it never, yeah,it never ends.
You never check the box off andsay, Okay, I'm done with the
work now.
Ashley (06:04):
right?
Yeah,
Addi (06:05):
Yeah.
And, you know, she's beingpretty real about that.
Ashley (06:09):
definitely.
Addi (06:12):
What was the biggest takeaway from this book for you?
Ashley (06:16):
The biggest takeaway.
I think my biggest takeaway wasI guess that it's okay to still,
to still be working on the work.
Like there were different piecesof the book where she would
introduce a guide post.
And in my mind I would be like,You know, I've worked on this, I
Addi (06:41):
hmm.
Ashley (06:41):
feel, feel pretty good about this section, you know,
and she would go on and dig alittle deeper and dig a little
deeper and then sure enough,something would resonate and I
would be like, Ooh, okay.
Yep, I still have some ways togo with this one.
Like, I'm not, I'm not quitewhere I thought I was, and
(07:03):
that's okay.
Like, it's fine and like yousaid, she gives these little
action items at the end.
To help you progress in thatwork and she just feels like you
said, just so real.
It made me feel like, like I wasable to really connect with the
(07:24):
material and connect with herand, feel good about my journey
also.
So,
Addi (07:30):
Yeah.
Ashley (07:31):
I think my, my biggest takeaway was just that, I am
still on a journey and that isokay.
Like, it is fine.
Addi (07:39):
Nice.
Nice.
Ashley (07:41):
Yeah.
Addi (07:43):
Yeah, you know, I, I think, I was trying to think
back, and I know I took notesthe first time I read this, but
I, I couldn't figure out wherethey were, so, but the first
time I read it, I think I wasvery much like, yeah, look at
all these really good pointsthat she has and you know, and
that there's a there's a there'sa way forward like she Was
(08:05):
putting words to things I wasfeeling
Ashley (08:09):
Mm
Addi (08:10):
and then sort of explaining what that You know
giving it context and then sortof like and here's what you can
do about it you know and it wasjust like a little eye opening
of Oh, you mean I don't have tojust sit here and suffer,
Ashley (08:26):
hmm.
Addi (08:26):
you know, um, it was like, what?
And then this time reading it,it was interesting because I
feel like the thing I took awayfrom it was how much of our
lives and the way that we'reraised.
And the messages that we aregiven and the way we're taught
(08:49):
our whole lives is so counter toa happy, healthy life.
Because all of the things she'stalking about in this book are
things that we all experience,and our culture, overall,
encourages these...
Bad things basically
Ashley (09:09):
totally agree.
Addi (09:11):
and, and so it was just sort of like, oh, yeah,
everybody's resonating with thisbecause, you know, this is how
we are taught to, to movethrough life.
And that sucks.
And so reading this this time, Iwas just, I was like, at the
end, I was kind of like, I'm alittle bit sad, mad right now.
You know, I'm I'm sad that thisis so much this is something
(09:35):
that everybody can relate to.
And I'm a little bit mad thatthis is, this is the way that
we, you know, raise kids andlive our in and are taught to
live our lives.
Ashley (09:45):
Mm
Addi (09:45):
a, it was like an interesting reaction I had to it
this time or not reaction, butyou know, it's like the, the
thoughts that were coming up forme and I felt, you know, but
here she is, she's basically thesystem's kind of screwed up and
you're screwed up because of it.
Here's, here's what you can doto help.
Yourself going forward and youknow, and she definitely refers
a number of times throughout thebook too about parenting and
(10:07):
she's raising kids and alsotrying to work on this yourself,
but then also trying not to passthis on to your kids.
Right?
Ashley (10:16):
Right.
Addi (10:17):
it's hard.
But anyway, I think that was abig thing that I kind of, Felt
from it this time.
And I guess so that the takeawayfor me is Yes, this is the
system we live in and and soeverybody can relate to this
book, which is why I wouldrecommend it to everybody
Ashley (10:37):
Yeah.
Addi (10:38):
and I really want to be part of trying to change that in
the future You know and thefirst step to helping change
that for other people's you haveto change it for yourself first
Right, it's
Ashley (10:51):
Totally.
Addi (10:51):
put the oxygen mask on first, and so, it's like, all
right this work is great for me,and I, there's a lot of insights
for me to work on, and thiscould help make this hopefully
not be so needed in the future,you know?
Ashley (11:08):
No, I totally agree.
I think this book also helps yourecognize where you need the
work because some of the thingsthat she brought up, like, I'm
trying to think of a goodexample, In the, in the section
where she talks about the theneed for certainty.
And she was saying like, whenshe, she realizes when she
(11:29):
starts asking the opinions ofeverybody else before she makes
a decision that she's feeling alittle vulnerable.
And I just never quite connectedthose two things because I'm
definitely somebody who likes toget consensus.
So I didn't even know that thatwas.
A thing until she pointed itout, you know what I mean?
(11:52):
So, I think definitely, yes, youdefinitely have to work on
yourself first or put the oxygenmask on yourself before you can
help everybody else.
But like, you also kind of haveto know you need the oxygen
mask.
Like, like, hey,
Addi (12:09):
Totally.
Ashley (12:11):
things are happening and they are not okay.
Addi (12:13):
Right?
Totally.
Yes.
Yes.
So much that,
Ashley (12:18):
Yeah.
Addi (12:19):
Yeah, and that's the thing, it's like this book,
you're like, you're readingalong, like da da da, and you're
like, oh, oh, oh, oh, I see,
Ashley (12:27):
so many of those moments, like, oh, well, okay,
that is, okay, got it.
I didn't know that wasn't okay.
Addi (12:35):
Right, and you're like, but now that you say it, I can
see what you're talking about.
Ashley (12:40):
yeah, I'm like, ah, I see why that doesn't quite make
sense.
Like, maybe that's not the wayto go about this thing.
Addi (12:48):
Uh huh.
Ashley (12:49):
Uh huh.
Got it.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Addi (12:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you have any drawbacks orwarnings about this book?
Anything you didn't like?
Ashley (13:00):
honestly, not off the top of my head.
I don't think I have anywarnings or drawbacks because
she's not forcing anything downyour throat.
It doesn't feel abrasive oraggressive.
It, you know what I mean?
It's kind of like take thepieces that fit and leave the
pieces that don't.
And I do feel like if you are ahuman, you probably can take
(13:27):
something away from it, youknow?
Addi (13:29):
hmm.
Ashley (13:31):
I don't know.
What did you think?
Addi (13:34):
You know, I, I think for me, it, it, not a drawback or a
thing I didn't like, but athing, a tendency within myself
is, so like, like we said, it'sa, it's a short book.
It's a pretty easy read in thatway but there's a lot of pieces
to the puzzle
Ashley (13:52):
Right?
Addi (13:54):
so what I do is I look at that as a challenge of I have to
do all of these things right nowIt's like, you know, so now i'm
like i'm whack a mole i'm likei've gotta i've gotta get them
all And and so I think just mypersonality type i'm like, oh,
oh, okay Okay, let's let's makea list and let's do all the
things And so it's for me tostep back and just be like you
(14:16):
were saying take The pieces awaywhat are the biggest pieces or
the most important things you'retaking away and you don't have
to do every single thing and itis a lifelong journey and it is
sort of a never ending puzzle soyou can keep coming back.
You don't have to do them allright now and get it right and
there is no finish line with it.
(14:39):
So I think that just has to dowith like different ways of
looking at it or personalitytypes and such like that.
I don't think that it's the bookitself.
It does that.
But I definitely needed to takea deep breath, like a lot of
this is it's good, it's fine, sowhat are the pieces of this that
you do want to think about more?
And just leave it at that.
(14:59):
Because there's so many things.
It's like every time you turnthe page, you're like, oh, But
wait, there's more.
Ashley (15:07):
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, I get that.
And I guess I do have a, maybenot a warning in the sense that
I was thinking about it before.
But because it is a short book,I would just know that there's a
lot in that short book.
Like,
Addi (15:25):
Mm hmm.
Ashley (15:26):
just read through it in a day and
Addi (15:29):
right, yeah.
Ashley (15:30):
Like, take some notes.
There's some, there's some goodstuff in there.
And you might have to re read itagain.
Like, there are definitely partsthat I had to go back through.
so, you know, maybe not awarning, but just, like, you
know, friendly nudge if you pickup the book.
Addi (15:46):
Heads up.
Ashley (15:47):
Heads up.
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
Addi (15:49):
Yeah.
Agreed, yeah.
I didn't jam through it in aday.
Sectioned it out, and I was,kind of thinking about it, like,
Whoa.
Okay.
Because, yeah, it's a lot ofinformation, and if you read it
all together, like, bam, in acouple of hours, I think it's
too much information for yourbrain to hold onto.
Ashley (16:04):
Yeah, I feel like you're less likely to be able to
implement any of the changes oractions because they're so
there's so much, you know,
Addi (16:14):
Yeah.
So this book is set up withguideposts and do you have any
in particular that stood out toyou?
Ashley (16:22):
Yes.
So I would say the ones.
That stood out to me, like youneed to work on that more.
Definitely the self compassionand perfectionism piece.
I don't think I quite realized.
Well, I mean, I think I've kindof always known that I can be a
(16:46):
little bit of a perfectionist.
But then when she talks, shestarted talking about like the
life paralysis and how, all ofthat can really hinder you in
just moving forward in lifebecause you're so conscious of
each step and not wanting tomake a mistake and not wanting
(17:06):
to fail and not wanting to, youknow, be perceived a certain
way, that really resonated,really deeply.
definitely that one.
And the creativity one also, Shesays in the book, if you want to
make meaning, you must make art,and when you make creating a
(17:27):
priority, everything is better.
And I was just like, man, that'strue.
Addi (17:32):
Mm.
Ashley (17:33):
I feel the most like myself when I get to just.
Be freely creative and you haveto make space for that.
Like it's not a thing where youcan continuously just put it off
or you'll never do it.
Like you have to.
Make time for it.
And she talked about making timeto do art with her kids and how
(17:55):
important that is for her andher kids.
And I was just like, man, that'sdefinitely a piece that I feel
that I know, like, I tell myselfall the time, I want to write
more.
I want to paint more.
I want to, you know, but it justreally highlighted the fact that
I have not made time for it andI should because there are
benefits outside of it.
(18:17):
Just you know, making a prettypretty painting.
You know, there are really someinternal intrinsic benefits
there that I am missing out on.
And then, letting go of controlthat one.
Addi (18:34):
Yeah.
And trying to be cool.
Mm
Ashley (18:37):
yes, and like, I don't think I realized just how in
control of myself I am.
I feel like I'm a pretty go withthe flow kind of person.
But she kind of gave, a littlesnippet about somebody who,
never really danced.
And, even when tapping theirfoot, they noticed and stopped
(18:57):
and felt really embarrassed.
And I'm not quite that bad, Idon't mind tapping my foot, but
and she talked about how dancingis this very vulnerable, freeing
thing.
And I was just like, oh my gosh,I don't dance, you know, I
don't, I don't do that, unlessthere's a setting where like
(19:18):
everyone is dancing, but I'm notgoing to just you know, dance in
the middle of the living room.
And I'm like, why not?
You know, but I think it's that,that whole, control thing like
not wanting to look a certainnot wanting to look too silly
like not wanting to do the dancemove wrong you know what I mean?
Um, so, yeah, I would definitelysay those three like stood out
(19:41):
the most for me like, whoo, um,not so loud.
That's kind of how I felt like.
Stop
Addi (19:50):
Don't
Ashley (19:51):
yelling at
Addi (19:53):
Don't you be calling me out like that.
Ashley (19:55):
Right?
Yeah.
Um, yeah, those, those weredefinitely my three.
What were yours?
Addi (20:05):
So the, the two that stood out to me in particular, one was
authenticity and authenticity issomething I actively work on
cause it's a core value for me.
And so it's, it's super, superimportant in my life.
And so I, Been working onauthenticity for a long time,
(20:27):
but it's particularly on my mindright now because I have been
struggling with it latelybecause I've been, I've been
going through, I don't want to,I don't want to say I'm going
through changes.
I guess what I'm doing, I feelmore like I'm uncovering more of
who I, who I truly am.
But I've sort of built a lifearound me based on, you know,
(20:49):
who I'm supposed to be insteadof who I am.
Ashley (20:53):
I totally get it.
Addi (20:55):
And.
And so I'm struggling withsharing this, like, who I truly
am in this world of who I'msupposed to be.
And, and so I'm having this,authenticity struggle.
And being like, wow, this is socool.
I'm very, I'm very excited andhappy internally, but it's not
meshing with my external world100%.
(21:15):
Because I'm a fear, I'm, I'mfearful of rejection of, of who
I truly am kind of a thing.
So anyway, that one stood out tome because it's, it's a
struggle.
I feel like I'm very much in themiddle of right now.
And it was just a good reminderas to why it's so important to
me and that I need to, to keepit.
Thank you.
Doing it anyway.
Um, and then the other one forme was meaningful work.
(21:42):
Because I've been doing a lot oflike in in the meaningful work
section She has this whole thingabout slash, you know Like being
an accountant slash painter orwhatever like, you know like
like people have these mixes andblends of Who they are and the
things that they do and I'vebeen doing quite a lot of that
actually I'm writing a novel.
I've started doing a bunch ofVisual artwork with linocut and
(22:05):
things like that I'm exploring alot Of things, and so I'm, I'm
doing all of that stuff and soI'm in that kind of trying to
find meaningful work, but inparticular, I'm also really, I
really want to figure out how tomake my day job, this job, more
meaningful in that same way,like she talks about in there
(22:29):
that you don't need thatnecessarily in your life, but I
want that,
Ashley (22:34):
That's like the dream.
Addi (22:35):
Right and so I mean in this podcast is even a part of
that for me, right?
Like this the podcast is likebecause I just feel drawn to
these conversations and I thinkthis is super important and
interesting stuff And I want todo more of that You know And so
and so that whole her wholeguidepost on meaningful work
(22:55):
really hit home for me of like,oh yeah, It's important to feel
like you're getting up in themorning, and whether it's the
paid work you're doing or it'ssomething else, but like there's
something that is, that isjoyful and meaningful to you,
that you're heading into, andlike, Making that more and more
a part of my life is, I think, Ithink that's an important thing
(23:18):
for me to really work on, and soit was like a little bit of a
poke in the butt, you know, andbe like, no, yeah, really,
really, you need to keep goingwith that, do that thing and
figure it out and don't just belike, oh, you know, whatever,
man, like, as long as I'm payingthe bills, who cares?
Yeah, so I would say those,those are the two for me.
Ashley (23:38):
Yeah, that meaningful work one, that resonated with me
too, those slashes, cause I,it's like, yes and yes.
Like I would, I would love tohave more slashes.
And just figure out how to fitit all in.
And I think Osio Labs is reallycool because there is the
(24:00):
flexibility to like add in apodcast.
You know, make the work moremeaningful for you.
I think that's wonderful.
Yeah, it's kind of a unicorn.
Addi (24:11):
Yeah, I mean, and ideally we make it more meaningful for
everyone, but also, you know,everyone on the team has
different things that aremeaningful to them.
And so, right, it's a matter ofus sort of figuring out what all
those things are and, you know,what we can and cannot do sort
(24:32):
of within the boundaries of, ofwhat we have.
I just feel like it's, it's, andit was like one of the quotes in
the book, she was quoting fromsomebody else, who said, Don't
ask what the world needs, askwhat makes you come alive and go
do it.
Because what the world needs ispeople who have come alive
Ashley (24:51):
Yeah.
Addi (24:52):
and I feel like
Ashley (24:53):
I remember that one.
Addi (24:54):
I would really like our company to be that To right like
each of us individually need tojust do that in our lives but
how cool would it be to have aCompany that helps us come alive
and can be that in the world Idon't know It's such a cool
concept to me.
I'm like, how do we do that?
(25:15):
Let's do
Ashley (25:15):
It is.
And I feel like we are doingthat actively or trying to find
the way to do it, you know, wehave these avenues for personal
projects and spending time towork on something that is
meaningful to you and, you know,just coming off of this retreat
and trying to make ourcollective work mean more to us
collectively.
(25:37):
I definitely feel like we're ona path for sure.
Addi (25:39):
Yeah.
Ashley (25:41):
Yeah.
Addi (25:43):
Yeah.
Well, we should probably wrapthis up.
Do you have any...
Last thoughts about the gifts ofimperfection.
Ashley (25:52):
I could talk about these 10 guideposts forever but it's
definitely a really wonderfulbook.
I enjoyed it a lot.
I'm glad you put it on the listbecause I don't know if I would
have found it, but thank you.
Addi (26:05):
Awesome.
Yeah.
You're welcome.
I just love, I love the idea ofimperfection being kind of the
goal
Ashley (26:15):
Yeah.
And like looking at it as agift.
Addi (26:18):
Yeah.
Ashley (26:20):
Totally.
Mm
Addi (26:21):
So I think we all need a little bit of space and grace
with that for sure.
So
Ashley (26:29):
1000%.
Addi (26:31):
awesome.
Well, thanks, thanks for readingthe book.
Thanks for talking about it.
Um, and
Ashley (26:36):
course.
Addi (26:37):
we will, we'll definitely be doing a little bit more Brené
Brown.
I think our next podcast will beyet another.
We'll have a twofer on BrenéBrown, I guess.
Um,
Ashley (26:51):
Nice.
Addi (26:51):
she's got good things to say.
Ashley (26:53):
She does.
Yeah, I'm a fan.
She got me.
Addi (26:58):
cool.
All right.
Well I will talk to you on thenext podcast then, because.
I think that one's going to be awhole team podcast, so that'll
be the first time we haveeverybody in the company on the
podcast at the same time.
Ashley (27:11):
Oh, nice.
Addi (27:12):
Yeah.
Ashley (27:14):
That'll be a fun one.
Addi (27:16):
Hey, so thanks for listening and let us know if you
have questions, comments, orsuggestions for what you'd like
to hear more about.
You can find all of the variousways to reach us on our website
at osiolabs.com.
That's O S I O L A B S.com.
(27:36):
Also, please make sure tosubscribe to the podcast on your
podcast provider of choice.
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
Hey everybody.
This is Addison Berry, andyou're listening to the Osio
Labs podcast.
The show that explores thequestion,"how can we create
sustainable businesses that carefor people and make the world a
better place?" On today'sepisode, I'm joined by my
colleague, Ashley Jones.
This is episode number eight,which is a book chat about The
Gifts of Imperfection by BrenéBrown.
(00:22):
Now, this was Brené's thirdpublished book and is the one
that she recommends for peopleto start with on her work if
you've not read any of her otherbooks yet.
It's a book about embracing whowe are versus who we think we're
supposed to be.
She calls it an invitation tothe whole hearted revolution.
In her words,"choosingauthenticity and worthiness.
(00:43):
It's an absolute act ofresistance".
The book covers some of herearlier work on shame and her
definitions of a wholeheartedlife before it dives into 10
guideposts to walk you throughsome important points to ponder
and then act on.
And those are (01:00):
Authenticity.
Self-compassion.
Resilient spirit.
Gratitude and joy.
Intuition and trusting faith.
Creativity.
Play and rest.
Calm and stillness.
Meaningful work.
(01:21):
And then the last is Laughter,song and dance.
Let's just dive into it and, andtalk about The Gifts of
Imperfection.
What was your overall impressionof this book?
And would you recommend it ornot?
Ashley (01:42):
I really enjoyed this book and I would definitely
recommend it and I feel like Iwould recommend it to just about
anyone,
Addi (01:54):
Mm hmm.
Ashley (01:54):
whether like you feel like you have it totally
together and you're not reallyinto self help or, you know, you
really enjoy self help books andyou're like on this journey.
Personal improvement.
I feel like there's something inthis book for everyone, for
sure.
I loved it.
What did you think?
Addi (02:15):
Yeah, I mean I I loved it.
It's I I read this book manyyears ago And so this was like a
rereading for me and I loved itthe first time I read it and
It's interesting like the wholeself help thing because it's
certainly You know, I guess thekind of book it is and where you
would find it in a bookstore orsomething like that but I feel
like this one is It feels more Idon't know The word that comes
(02:36):
to mind for me is just real.
Like it's less about fixingthings on the surface and it's
more about.
Really digging deep into who youare, in a way that's, it's,
it's, I feel like it's more likea psychology or therapy than
self help or something, youknow, because it's, it's really
(02:56):
kind of digs pretty deep, Ithink, into some really cool
things and also still has actionitems, you know, at the end of
each.
Guidepost or whatever orsomething for you to think about
or explore a little bit more butyeah, I loved it and it really I
feel like so much of the bookreally resonates for me and In
(03:17):
the years since I read it thefirst time I have Made a lot of
changes in my life and I havedone a lot of work And so it's
really interesting to be like,yep.
She's she's she's right likethis is
Ashley (03:30):
hmm.
Addi (03:31):
This is like real deal stuff and if you do work on it
and change things like it, itjust like sort of fundamentally
changes the way that you movethrough the world.
So, yeah, I love it.
And I, I definitely wouldrecommend it to anybody because
it just has some really, evenif, and even if you don't read
the whole book and take it allin and, and, you know, And jive
(03:52):
with the whole thing.
I feel like there's something,like you said, there's sort of
something in there for everyone.
There's going to be some sliceof this that you're like, Oh,
yeah, I feel what she's sayingright there.
Ashley (04:04):
Mm hmm.
Addi (04:06):
because she covers a lot of ground, like in a short.
Book, like it's not that long,but it's like a lot of punches.
Ashley (04:16):
Yes, agreed.
And she makes it reallyanecdotal almost, like it
doesn't, it doesn't feel preachyor, you know, finger pointy.
She is talking to you about herexperiences and what she's
learned from these experiences.
And like, Mm hmm.
How she thinks about things andhow she's learned from her, you
(04:38):
know what I mean?
Like, and how it could help youin the future.
It doesn't, I really liked it.
I like her approach, and I willdefinitely be reading more of
her books.
This is my first one, um.
Addi (04:49):
hmm.
Ashley (04:50):
from Brené Brown, but I see that she she's done quite a
bit.
So
Addi (04:55):
Yeah, there are a lot of like stories and examples a lot
of them are from her life butfrom other people too and that
yeah, there's I guess you getthis sense of She's looked at
this stuff a lot, and she'slearned a lot, and she's sharing
that with you, yet she alsodoesn't have it all figured out
yet.
Ashley (05:10):
exactly.
Addi (05:11):
Like, she's still bumping around in the dark, too, and
it's okay to bump around in thedark about this stuff.
Ashley (05:20):
She even talks about when she slips into her old
patterns and what she uses toget herself back on track and
it's like, okay, so you don'tyou don't ever just arrive
because I feel like, I feellike, you know, I don't know if
other people feel like this, butsometimes I'm just like, man,
when can I just like, get there?
(05:42):
When can I just be the thing?
But it's, you know, I alsounderstand that that is not the
case, but it does feel nice toknow that it's not the case,
even for the people writing thebooks about it, you know,
Addi (05:54):
Exactly.
It's a lifelong journey.
Like, it just, it never, yeah,it never ends.
You never check the box off andsay, Okay, I'm done with the
work now.
Ashley (06:04):
right?
Yeah,
Addi (06:05):
Yeah.
And, you know, she's beingpretty real about that.
Ashley (06:09):
definitely.
Addi (06:12):
What was the biggest takeaway from this book for you?
Ashley (06:16):
The biggest takeaway.
I think my biggest takeaway wasI guess that it's okay to still,
to still be working on the work.
Like there were different piecesof the book where she would
introduce a guide post.
And in my mind I would be like,You know, I've worked on this, I
Addi (06:41):
hmm.
Ashley (06:41):
feel, feel pretty good about this section, you know,
and she would go on and dig alittle deeper and dig a little
deeper and then sure enough,something would resonate and I
would be like, Ooh, okay.
Yep, I still have some ways togo with this one.
Like, I'm not, I'm not quitewhere I thought I was, and
(07:03):
that's okay.
Like, it's fine and like yousaid, she gives these little
action items at the end.
To help you progress in thatwork and she just feels like you
said, just so real.
It made me feel like, like I wasable to really connect with the
(07:24):
material and connect with herand, feel good about my journey
also.
So,
Addi (07:30):
Yeah.
Ashley (07:31):
I think my, my biggest takeaway was just that, I am
still on a journey and that isokay.
Like, it is fine.
Addi (07:39):
Nice.
Nice.
Ashley (07:41):
Yeah.
Addi (07:43):
Yeah, you know, I, I think, I was trying to think
back, and I know I took notesthe first time I read this, but
I, I couldn't figure out wherethey were, so, but the first
time I read it, I think I wasvery much like, yeah, look at
all these really good pointsthat she has and you know, and
that there's a there's a there'sa way forward like she Was
(08:05):
putting words to things I wasfeeling
Ashley (08:09):
Mm
Addi (08:10):
and then sort of explaining what that You know
giving it context and then sortof like and here's what you can
do about it you know and it wasjust like a little eye opening
of Oh, you mean I don't have tojust sit here and suffer,
Ashley (08:26):
hmm.
Addi (08:26):
you know, um, it was like, what?
And then this time reading it,it was interesting because I
feel like the thing I took awayfrom it was how much of our
lives and the way that we'reraised.
And the messages that we aregiven and the way we're taught
(08:49):
our whole lives is so counter toa happy, healthy life.
Because all of the things she'stalking about in this book are
things that we all experience,and our culture, overall,
encourages these...
Bad things basically
Ashley (09:09):
totally agree.
Addi (09:11):
and, and so it was just sort of like, oh, yeah,
everybody's resonating with thisbecause, you know, this is how
we are taught to, to movethrough life.
And that sucks.
And so reading this this time, Iwas just, I was like, at the
end, I was kind of like, I'm alittle bit sad, mad right now.
You know, I'm I'm sad that thisis so much this is something
(09:35):
that everybody can relate to.
And I'm a little bit mad thatthis is, this is the way that
we, you know, raise kids andlive our in and are taught to
live our lives.
Ashley (09:45):
Mm
Addi (09:45):
a, it was like an interesting reaction I had to it
this time or not reaction, butyou know, it's like the, the
thoughts that were coming up forme and I felt, you know, but
here she is, she's basically thesystem's kind of screwed up and
you're screwed up because of it.
Here's, here's what you can doto help.
Yourself going forward and youknow, and she definitely refers
a number of times throughout thebook too about parenting and
(10:07):
she's raising kids and alsotrying to work on this yourself,
but then also trying not to passthis on to your kids.
Right?
Ashley (10:16):
Right.
Addi (10:17):
it's hard.
But anyway, I think that was abig thing that I kind of, Felt
from it this time.
And I guess so that the takeawayfor me is Yes, this is the
system we live in and and soeverybody can relate to this
book, which is why I wouldrecommend it to everybody
Ashley (10:37):
Yeah.
Addi (10:38):
and I really want to be part of trying to change that in
the future You know and thefirst step to helping change
that for other people's you haveto change it for yourself first
Right, it's
Ashley (10:51):
Totally.
Addi (10:51):
put the oxygen mask on first, and so, it's like, all
right this work is great for me,and I, there's a lot of insights
for me to work on, and thiscould help make this hopefully
not be so needed in the future,you know?
Ashley (11:08):
No, I totally agree.
I think this book also helps yourecognize where you need the
work because some of the thingsthat she brought up, like, I'm
trying to think of a goodexample, In the, in the section
where she talks about the theneed for certainty.
And she was saying like, whenshe, she realizes when she
(11:29):
starts asking the opinions ofeverybody else before she makes
a decision that she's feeling alittle vulnerable.
And I just never quite connectedthose two things because I'm
definitely somebody who likes toget consensus.
So I didn't even know that thatwas.
A thing until she pointed itout, you know what I mean?
(11:52):
So, I think definitely, yes, youdefinitely have to work on
yourself first or put the oxygenmask on yourself before you can
help everybody else.
But like, you also kind of haveto know you need the oxygen
mask.
Like, like, hey,
Addi (12:09):
Totally.
Ashley (12:11):
things are happening and they are not okay.
Addi (12:13):
Right?
Totally.
Yes.
Yes.
So much that,
Ashley (12:18):
Yeah.
Addi (12:19):
Yeah, and that's the thing, it's like this book,
you're like, you're readingalong, like da da da, and you're
like, oh, oh, oh, oh, I see,
Ashley (12:27):
so many of those moments, like, oh, well, okay,
that is, okay, got it.
I didn't know that wasn't okay.
Addi (12:35):
Right, and you're like, but now that you say it, I can
see what you're talking about.
Ashley (12:40):
yeah, I'm like, ah, I see why that doesn't quite make
sense.
Like, maybe that's not the wayto go about this thing.
Addi (12:48):
Uh huh.
Ashley (12:49):
Uh huh.
Got it.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Addi (12:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you have any drawbacks orwarnings about this book?
Anything you didn't like?
Ashley (13:00):
honestly, not off the top of my head.
I don't think I have anywarnings or drawbacks because
she's not forcing anything downyour throat.
It doesn't feel abrasive oraggressive.
It, you know what I mean?
It's kind of like take thepieces that fit and leave the
pieces that don't.
And I do feel like if you are ahuman, you probably can take
(13:27):
something away from it, youknow?
Addi (13:29):
hmm.
Ashley (13:31):
I don't know.
What did you think?
Addi (13:34):
You know, I, I think for me, it, it, not a drawback or a
thing I didn't like, but athing, a tendency within myself
is, so like, like we said, it'sa, it's a short book.
It's a pretty easy read in thatway but there's a lot of pieces
to the puzzle
Ashley (13:52):
Right?
Addi (13:54):
so what I do is I look at that as a challenge of I have to
do all of these things right nowIt's like, you know, so now i'm
like i'm whack a mole i'm likei've gotta i've gotta get them
all And and so I think just mypersonality type i'm like, oh,
oh, okay Okay, let's let's makea list and let's do all the
things And so it's for me tostep back and just be like you
(14:16):
were saying take The pieces awaywhat are the biggest pieces or
the most important things you'retaking away and you don't have
to do every single thing and itis a lifelong journey and it is
sort of a never ending puzzle soyou can keep coming back.
You don't have to do them allright now and get it right and
there is no finish line with it.
(14:39):
So I think that just has to dowith like different ways of
looking at it or personalitytypes and such like that.
I don't think that it's the bookitself.
It does that.
But I definitely needed to takea deep breath, like a lot of
this is it's good, it's fine, sowhat are the pieces of this that
you do want to think about more?
And just leave it at that.
(14:59):
Because there's so many things.
It's like every time you turnthe page, you're like, oh, But
wait, there's more.
Ashley (15:07):
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, I get that.
And I guess I do have a, maybenot a warning in the sense that
I was thinking about it before.
But because it is a short book,I would just know that there's a
lot in that short book.
Like,
Addi (15:25):
Mm hmm.
Ashley (15:26):
just read through it in a day and
Addi (15:29):
right, yeah.
Ashley (15:30):
Like, take some notes.
There's some, there's some goodstuff in there.
And you might have to re read itagain.
Like, there are definitely partsthat I had to go back through.
so, you know, maybe not awarning, but just, like, you
know, friendly nudge if you pickup the book.
Addi (15:46):
Heads up.
Ashley (15:47):
Heads up.
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
Addi (15:49):
Yeah.
Agreed, yeah.
I didn't jam through it in aday.
Sectioned it out, and I was,kind of thinking about it, like,
Whoa.
Okay.
Because, yeah, it's a lot ofinformation, and if you read it
all together, like, bam, in acouple of hours, I think it's
too much information for yourbrain to hold onto.
Ashley (16:04):
Yeah, I feel like you're less likely to be able to
implement any of the changes oractions because they're so
there's so much, you know,
Addi (16:14):
Yeah.
So this book is set up withguideposts and do you have any
in particular that stood out toyou?
Ashley (16:22):
Yes.
So I would say the ones.
That stood out to me, like youneed to work on that more.
Definitely the self compassionand perfectionism piece.
I don't think I quite realized.
Well, I mean, I think I've kindof always known that I can be a
(16:46):
little bit of a perfectionist.
But then when she talks, shestarted talking about like the
life paralysis and how, all ofthat can really hinder you in
just moving forward in lifebecause you're so conscious of
each step and not wanting tomake a mistake and not wanting
(17:06):
to fail and not wanting to, youknow, be perceived a certain
way, that really resonated,really deeply.
definitely that one.
And the creativity one also, Shesays in the book, if you want to
make meaning, you must make art,and when you make creating a
(17:27):
priority, everything is better.
And I was just like, man, that'strue.
Addi (17:32):
Mm.
Ashley (17:33):
I feel the most like myself when I get to just.
Be freely creative and you haveto make space for that.
Like it's not a thing where youcan continuously just put it off
or you'll never do it.
Like you have to.
Make time for it.
And she talked about making timeto do art with her kids and how
(17:55):
important that is for her andher kids.
And I was just like, man, that'sdefinitely a piece that I feel
that I know, like, I tell myselfall the time, I want to write
more.
I want to paint more.
I want to, you know, but it justreally highlighted the fact that
I have not made time for it andI should because there are
benefits outside of it.
(18:17):
Just you know, making a prettypretty painting.
You know, there are really someinternal intrinsic benefits
there that I am missing out on.
And then, letting go of controlthat one.
Addi (18:34):
Yeah.
And trying to be cool.
Mm
Ashley (18:37):
yes, and like, I don't think I realized just how in
control of myself I am.
I feel like I'm a pretty go withthe flow kind of person.
But she kind of gave, a littlesnippet about somebody who,
never really danced.
And, even when tapping theirfoot, they noticed and stopped
(18:57):
and felt really embarrassed.
And I'm not quite that bad, Idon't mind tapping my foot, but
and she talked about how dancingis this very vulnerable, freeing
thing.
And I was just like, oh my gosh,I don't dance, you know, I
don't, I don't do that, unlessthere's a setting where like
(19:18):
everyone is dancing, but I'm notgoing to just you know, dance in
the middle of the living room.
And I'm like, why not?
You know, but I think it's that,that whole, control thing like
not wanting to look a certainnot wanting to look too silly
like not wanting to do the dancemove wrong you know what I mean?
Um, so, yeah, I would definitelysay those three like stood out
(19:41):
the most for me like, whoo, um,not so loud.
That's kind of how I felt like.
Stop
Addi (19:50):
Don't
Ashley (19:51):
yelling at
Addi (19:53):
Don't you be calling me out like that.
Ashley (19:55):
Right?
Yeah.
Um, yeah, those, those weredefinitely my three.
What were yours?
Addi (20:05):
So the, the two that stood out to me in particular, one was
authenticity and authenticity issomething I actively work on
cause it's a core value for me.
And so it's, it's super, superimportant in my life.
And so I, Been working onauthenticity for a long time,
(20:27):
but it's particularly on my mindright now because I have been
struggling with it latelybecause I've been, I've been
going through, I don't want to,I don't want to say I'm going
through changes.
I guess what I'm doing, I feelmore like I'm uncovering more of
who I, who I truly am.
But I've sort of built a lifearound me based on, you know,
(20:49):
who I'm supposed to be insteadof who I am.
Ashley (20:53):
I totally get it.
Addi (20:55):
And.
And so I'm struggling withsharing this, like, who I truly
am in this world of who I'msupposed to be.
And, and so I'm having this,authenticity struggle.
And being like, wow, this is socool.
I'm very, I'm very excited andhappy internally, but it's not
meshing with my external world100%.
(21:15):
Because I'm a fear, I'm, I'mfearful of rejection of, of who
I truly am kind of a thing.
So anyway, that one stood out tome because it's, it's a
struggle.
I feel like I'm very much in themiddle of right now.
And it was just a good reminderas to why it's so important to
me and that I need to, to keepit.
Thank you.
Doing it anyway.
Um, and then the other one forme was meaningful work.
(21:42):
Because I've been doing a lot oflike in in the meaningful work
section She has this whole thingabout slash, you know Like being
an accountant slash painter orwhatever like, you know like
like people have these mixes andblends of Who they are and the
things that they do and I'vebeen doing quite a lot of that
actually I'm writing a novel.
I've started doing a bunch ofVisual artwork with linocut and
(22:05):
things like that I'm exploring alot Of things, and so I'm, I'm
doing all of that stuff and soI'm in that kind of trying to
find meaningful work, but inparticular, I'm also really, I
really want to figure out how tomake my day job, this job, more
meaningful in that same way,like she talks about in there
(22:29):
that you don't need thatnecessarily in your life, but I
want that,
Ashley (22:34):
That's like the dream.
Addi (22:35):
Right and so I mean in this podcast is even a part of
that for me, right?
Like this the podcast is likebecause I just feel drawn to
these conversations and I thinkthis is super important and
interesting stuff And I want todo more of that You know And so
and so that whole her wholeguidepost on meaningful work
(22:55):
really hit home for me of like,oh yeah, It's important to feel
like you're getting up in themorning, and whether it's the
paid work you're doing or it'ssomething else, but like there's
something that is, that isjoyful and meaningful to you,
that you're heading into, andlike, Making that more and more
a part of my life is, I think, Ithink that's an important thing
(23:18):
for me to really work on, and soit was like a little bit of a
poke in the butt, you know, andbe like, no, yeah, really,
really, you need to keep goingwith that, do that thing and
figure it out and don't just belike, oh, you know, whatever,
man, like, as long as I'm payingthe bills, who cares?
Yeah, so I would say those,those are the two for me.
Ashley (23:38):
Yeah, that meaningful work one, that resonated with me
too, those slashes, cause I,it's like, yes and yes.
Like I would, I would love tohave more slashes.
And just figure out how to fitit all in.
And I think Osio Labs is reallycool because there is the
(24:00):
flexibility to like add in apodcast.
You know, make the work moremeaningful for you.
I think that's wonderful.
Yeah, it's kind of a unicorn.
Addi (24:11):
Yeah, I mean, and ideally we make it more meaningful for
everyone, but also, you know,everyone on the team has
different things that aremeaningful to them.
And so, right, it's a matter ofus sort of figuring out what all
those things are and, you know,what we can and cannot do sort
(24:32):
of within the boundaries of, ofwhat we have.
I just feel like it's, it's, andit was like one of the quotes in
the book, she was quoting fromsomebody else, who said, Don't
ask what the world needs, askwhat makes you come alive and go
do it.
Because what the world needs ispeople who have come alive
Ashley (24:51):
Yeah.
Addi (24:52):
and I feel like
Ashley (24:53):
I remember that one.
Addi (24:54):
I would really like our company to be that To right like
each of us individually need tojust do that in our lives but
how cool would it be to have aCompany that helps us come alive
and can be that in the world Idon't know It's such a cool
concept to me.
I'm like, how do we do that?
(25:15):
Let's do
Ashley (25:15):
It is.
And I feel like we are doingthat actively or trying to find
the way to do it, you know, wehave these avenues for personal
projects and spending time towork on something that is
meaningful to you and, you know,just coming off of this retreat
and trying to make ourcollective work mean more to us
collectively.
(25:37):
I definitely feel like we're ona path for sure.
Addi (25:39):
Yeah.
Ashley (25:41):
Yeah.
Addi (25:43):
Yeah.
Well, we should probably wrapthis up.
Do you have any...
Last thoughts about the gifts ofimperfection.
Ashley (25:52):
I could talk about these 10 guideposts forever but it's
definitely a really wonderfulbook.
I enjoyed it a lot.
I'm glad you put it on the listbecause I don't know if I would
have found it, but thank you.
Addi (26:05):
Awesome.
Yeah.
You're welcome.
I just love, I love the idea ofimperfection being kind of the
goal
Ashley (26:15):
Yeah.
And like looking at it as agift.
Addi (26:18):
Yeah.
Ashley (26:20):
Totally.
Mm
Addi (26:21):
So I think we all need a little bit of space and grace
with that for sure.
So
Ashley (26:29):
1000%.
Addi (26:31):
awesome.
Well, thanks, thanks for readingthe book.
Thanks for talking about it.
Um, and
Ashley (26:36):
course.
Addi (26:37):
we will, we'll definitely be doing a little bit more Brené
Brown.
I think our next podcast will beyet another.
We'll have a twofer on BrenéBrown, I guess.
Um,
Ashley (26:51):
Nice.
Addi (26:51):
she's got good things to say.
Ashley (26:53):
She does.
Yeah, I'm a fan.
She got me.
Addi (26:58):
cool.
All right.
Well I will talk to you on thenext podcast then, because.
I think that one's going to be awhole team podcast, so that'll
be the first time we haveeverybody in the company on the
podcast at the same time.
Ashley (27:11):
Oh, nice.
Addi (27:12):
Yeah.
Ashley (27:14):
That'll be a fun one.
Addi (27:16):
Hey, so thanks for listening and let us know if you
have questions, comments, orsuggestions for what you'd like
to hear more about.
You can find all of the variousways to reach us on our website
at osiolabs.com.
That's O S I O L A B S.com.
(27:36):
Also, please make sure tosubscribe to the podcast on your
podcast provider of choice.
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.