March 14, 2025 • 57 mins
God's thoughts about us and our thoughts about God hold tremendous power, shaping our identity, relationships, and entire worldview in ways we rarely recognize. But what if we allowed God to define Himself? Join us in this God thoughts episode as we discuss:
• How small thoughts about God can have big impacts on how we view ourselves and the world
• Creating healthy thought life means understanding God's true character
• "Black" negative thought patterns vs "green" life-giving thoughts physically change our brain
• Common misconceptions include seeing God as cosmic cop, distant watchmaker, or angry judge
• God defines himself as "compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love"
• The Hebrew concept of "hesed" (covenant faithfulness) describes God's reliable, enduring love
• Practical transformation comes through daily meditation on scripture
• Journaling revelations about God's character reinforces healthy thought patterns
• Taking thoughts captive means actively catching and correcting distorted views
• Who we love becomes our people—making our thoughts about God central to identity
Resources Mentioned in this episode:
- Switch On Your Brain (affiliate link)
- The God-Shaped Brain (affiliate link)
- God Has a Name (affiliate link)
- Renovation of the Heart (affiliate link)
- The Anxiety Reset (affiliate link)
- You Are What You Love (affiliate link)
- Renovated (affiliate link)
We'd love to hear what topics you want us to discuss in future episodes! Contact us through our website at our1blessedmess.com or follow us on Instagram and Facebook to join the conversation.
CORRECTION: Ben mistakenly says "Dallas Jenkins". He meant to say "Dallas Willard" in reference to the book Renovated.
Your Listening to our 1 blessed mess, with ben and liz
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Liz (00:07):
Welcome to our One Blessed Mess.
This is Ben and Liz and we'rehere telling our story of
raising six kids that we had ineight years while managing an
entrepreneurial home with twobusinesses plus homeschooling,
and we currently have fourteenagers almost five, which is
pretty crazy to think about andof course, we have seven
(00:28):
chickens and two dogs, honestlyjust to keep life interesting.
And boys and interesting.
Those chickens are all over theplace, aren't they?
They are a mess, constant mess,but we love them, we do love
them, yeah, and it's warming up,and so they have been producing
a lot more eggs.
I mean, we're giving our eggsto everybody, aren't we?
Ben (00:47):
That's true.
Liz (00:48):
We eat a lot of eggs, but we can only eat so many eggs
Very true.
Yeah, and we're happy to givethem away, aren't we we?
Ben (00:54):
are.
Yeah, it's our fun eggexperiment.
Liz (01:00):
Egg experiment Wow, he's in marketing, you guys.
Can you tell Egg-esperiment?
Wow, he's in marketing, youguys.
Ben (01:04):
Can you tell, maybe, yeah, maybe we shouldn't say that.
Liz (01:08):
Okay, it's pretty bad actually so what is today's
conversation about?
Ben (01:13):
Today's conversation is about our God thoughts and,
specifically, the power of thesethoughts.
Yeah.
And so-.
Liz (01:20):
Very powerful.
Ben (01:21):
You might think they're inconsequential or small.
Maybe you should say small.
But, these little things, theselittle thoughts that we have
about God and then alsoourselves, can have some really
big impact especially on ourrelationship.
Liz (01:36):
Yes, and if you're married to this man right here, ben
Varan, you cannot have smallthoughts about God, because he's
going to talk about it.
When you're on a date, whenyou're having family dinner,
when you go on a walk, it's likeWell, they might be small, but
we're going to have a lot ofthem.
Yes, yes, yes, but we're goingto be talking about it, that's
true.
So we're really excited aboutthis episode today.
Ben (01:56):
I think it's going to be a fun one.
Liz (01:57):
I think it is too.
We're really excited about it.
It's a good conversation tohave it is good and I think we
all need it.
Go ahead, we do.
Ben (02:06):
Yeah, we all need it and I don't think we take a lot of
time to validate Like we havelots of God thoughts right Right
.
And sometimes we enjoycommunicating those.
But I think also importantlylike do we validate those
thoughts?
We find out where they comefrom.
Are they legitimate thoughts?
(02:27):
We find out where they comefrom.
Are they legitimate thoughts?
Do we talk to other peopleabout them and invite them in to
?
say hey, what do you think aboutthis?
Is this an actual biblical Godthought or not?
But it's those small littlethings that can have a big
impact.
Liz (02:39):
I'm smiling because I feel like everybody is getting a
glimpse into what it's likebeing married to you.
Ben (02:47):
I'm on display.
Liz (02:48):
It's not bad, it's good.
This is actually good.
If you were to come over to ourhouse for dinner or, you know,
have a cup of tea, or Ben lovesto cook barbecue, we probably
are going to get on the subjectin some form or another, like
you're going to make sure wekind of, but it's good, it's
kind of like you right now.
It's where you are.
So let's, let's talk about it,because I'm excited yeah.
Ben (03:08):
Yeah, Okay.
So, like we said, you know alot.
Uh, well, I guess this is a newpart.
A lot of what we conceptualizeabout God comes from our thought
life.
Right and so true.
I think that is understated inmost people's lives, Like we
don't.
We don't realize how importantthat piece is, where you know
(03:31):
you can be doom and gloom inyour thought life.
And that can actually projecton how you perceive God or you
perceive what God is doing inyour life at the moment.
Liz (03:41):
Well, and, and also I'm going to interject, I know you
had a thought Okay, I'm going tointerject, but also it affects
your worldview.
Ben (03:47):
Yes, exactly.
I mean, is that what you'reabout to say?
I think yeah, and I was goingto say it actually goes to the
relationships that you have andcan affect those as well.
Liz (03:55):
And your worldview, if the world is going to burn and be
blown up in fire, or if you'relike I have hope and I have
peace and look at this flowerblooming right now.
Right, exactly, yeah.
Ben (04:06):
It touches a lot of who we are.
Liz (04:08):
See, I'm smart too, you guys.
Ben (04:10):
You are smart.
You're very smart and I thinkyou even have a story about
little things having big impacts.
Liz (04:18):
Oh, yes, I do.
So we were discussing what wewanted to talk about in this
episode and I said I have astory.
We always have so many stories.
This story, wow, just wow, wow,just wow, it's, it's it.
It's a little crazy.
So, um, there's a little.
If you're listening, you can'tsee me do this, but you put a w
(04:40):
up by your, your mouth, and putthe other w up and you say wow,
and that makes the wow Okay, andyou can do, mom, and you can do
cool.
Ben (04:48):
Oh boy, oh wow.
Liz (04:51):
Okay, the C and the L.
Okay.
Anyway, it was wow, becausethis is when my business long,
long, long, long time ago we hadour I was.
I wasn't pregnant with thenumber six, it was in between
number five and number six, andit was the last day of the month
, which was is a really big dealin a lot of businesses, and
mine was a really big dealbecause we had a big goal.
(05:12):
We were pushing for a big goaland you said, hey, why don't I
take all five of our kids out ofthe house and I'm going to take
them for a hike?
And I was like, yes, I lovethis idea, and I had a sister
over who was helping me that day.
We had a lot going on, it wasreally busy and you took the
kids for a hike.
You were gone for quite a whileLonger than we should have been
(05:33):
.
Yeah, and you guys need toremember, I think our oldest was
six, so they were like six,five, four, two and one.
They were little, they were alllittle.
And you even put our youngeston your back, right, didn't you
have like a backpack?
Yeah, I had a little kidcarrier backpack.
Ben (05:51):
Yeah, kid carrier backpack.
Liz (05:52):
Those are great.
Yeah, you had one of those andyou took them on this long hike
and as you were doing the hike Imean you tell the story, you're
the one on the hike I'm likeregurgitating what you told me.
Talk about it.
I see it in your face.
Ben (06:04):
Okay.
So yeah, went on a hike and Ithought I knew exactly where I
was.
Liz (06:12):
Imagine that.
Ben (06:13):
And was doing everything at the right time, but then I
happened to look at my watch.
I've got five kids in tow.
And it's dinner One literallytowing on my back.
Yep.
But yeah, look, and it's dinnertime and I'm like, oh my gosh,
we're not going to make dinnerat the right time.
So I thought, hey, we need tospeed this up.
I thought this is where thistrail was, but we are taking a
lot longer than we need to.
(06:34):
So I make my own trail and youthought you had a shortcut.
Liz (06:45):
If you're in the woods and you try to make your own trail,
there's wisdom, and sticking onthe trail that's already made.
Ben (06:48):
This is deep people.
I didn't have enough wisdom yetto understand that, so I made
my own trail and we went througha lot of brush and this was the
missouri uh oh yeah wilderland,you know like yes, woods yes,
and so there were a lot ofcreatures where we went and so
we came home, got the shortcutdone and it's like the sun is
(07:12):
like setting, so he like walksin and I'm like okay, you're
here.
Liz (07:15):
I think we made like spaghetti because it was such a
busy day for me, so it wasn'tlike this like grandiose meal.
Maybe we ordered pizza, I don'tknow.
I don't really remember.
I feel like it was spaghetti,but anyway the kids were dirty
and I'm like we need to put themin the tub yeah, and they're
itching.
Ben (07:33):
Came home and we were all dirty like especially our lower
parts below the knees, so likeknees, ankles and it just looked
like we had dirt everywhere andit was funny because I was like
I don't remember getting into awhole lot of dirt and mud.
You know we stayed on the trail,except for that last little bit
.
And so what?
Your sister, I think, startedtaking them and washing them.
Liz (07:49):
Yeah, she put them in the shower.
I'm on phone calls.
It's a big day, it's a very bigday and we're doing all this
stuff and these little blackareas are not coming off.
Ben (08:01):
Yeah, yeah At all.
What we thought was dirtactually wasn't dirt.
Liz (08:05):
It was bugs.
Ben (08:07):
What kind of bugs?
Liz (08:07):
I don't know these little tiny.
Ben (08:09):
They were baby ticks.
Liz (08:10):
They were sent from hell.
That's what they were.
There were so many.
Ben (08:13):
It looked like dirt.
Liz (08:14):
It looked like we were just Hundreds, yeah, like hundreds
and hundreds.
Ben (08:19):
Hundreds on the kids, washing them.
They're not coming off.
Liz (08:22):
So now here I am, at the month end, like already stressed
out, with my business, like youknow, have a big goal.
We're wrapping up.
I remember it was September30th, which was the end of a
quarter going into anotherquarter, so it was like a whole
quarter deal anyway, and andlike the culmination of
everything we've been workingtowards and we're like these
things aren't coming off.
And then we started seeing moveyeah, that was freaky.
Ben (08:43):
They started moving.
We realized it wasn't dirt oh,you guys, we're not talking just
one, two, three four.
Liz (08:50):
We're talking hundreds five kids plus ben, yeah.
So then my sister and I arewith tweezers and we're trying
to pull these things off of ourkids.
I mean, we're googling, we'relike what is this stuff?
Yeah, and so, and I mean not topoo-poo you, but you're like,
oh, it's not a big deal.
I'm like, look at their legs.
I'm like, come here and look attheir legs, you're like, oh, oh
(09:11):
, and they were covered.
And then I'm like, trying towash their clothes later that
week, trying to wash the clothes, it's not coming out of their
socks, it's not coming out ofanything.
They're still living throughthe dryer which was on high and
hot.
So then this one funny parthappened and I said well, if
they have them, you've got tohave them.
You're like hairier legs.
(09:33):
I mean I think it's okay, Ishare this part.
But then you're like I feellike they're on my chest and so
I was like well, take off yourshirt.
So you take your shirt off andthey are embedded in the hair on
his chest and I'm like oh, mygosh.
So then I'm on your chest withtweezers and my sister looks
over, she goes I'm not touchingthat.
(09:55):
She said I'm not touching that.
Ben (09:57):
So yeah, yeah, learned a good lesson that day.
Liz (10:00):
We did learn a good lesson that day.
We did learn a good lesson thatday.
We say on the path we don'tturn and go through high brush
and the, the kids that were inthe front got hit the worst, and
the ones that were in the backand and the one on your back,
she didn't have as many I shouldsay because she was so high up
but, somehow she still had someno, those little things have a
big impact.
It was awful yeah so littlethings can have big impact and
(10:23):
so we're equating this tothoughts.
Ben (10:25):
That's right yeah thoughts and you got into this author and
, I guess, brain science person.
Liz (10:33):
Neuroscientist, neuroscientist she's amazing.
Carolyn Leaf, tell us about her, dr Caroline Leaf, she's from
South Africa.
She dresses super awesome.
She's not the kind of scientistthat you would think.
I mean, she's got her nailsdone and everything.
She's really brilliant.
She's a believer and she has anInstagram, a Facebook page.
(10:54):
She is on YouTube.
One time I was cleaning out hercloset and I was listening to
oh my gosh, it was about brainscience and now I can't even
remember what it is.
But it's quantum physics.
I listened to her one 20minutes four times to try to
(11:15):
understand quantum physics.
Why are you laughing?
Ben (11:18):
I can see that happening.
Liz (11:19):
Yes, and I was in the closet and I listened to it
again and again and again and Igot a little bit of it, but
she's brilliant.
She talks about your brain andshe has a book called who
Switched Off my Brain.
It's about left brain, rightbrain, but it's all about toxic
thoughts and what they havediscovered is that when
scientists are looking at yourbrain under a microscope and you
(11:41):
are thinking, your thoughtshave life and they continue on
in life and they grow.
So when you have a thought, itdoesn't just stop.
And what they said is that it'spretty fascinating.
She says when you think a happythought or a good thought, the
way that she equates it to, islike this beautiful, bright
green, like Kelly green youthink of, like spring,
(12:04):
everything's turning green, thatbeautiful bright color.
Now she's saying that's not thecolor, it is under the
microscope, but that's what itlooks like if we were to say
that.
And then, if you have anegative thought, it looks like
this dead branch, like thiswitch's branch that you would
imagine on a dead tree.
And she says everybody hasforests in their brain of green
(12:26):
and black.
And she says some people havemore black and some people have
more green and the good versusnegative, versus positive, and
she says that you can rewriteyour brain to have more green or
to have more positive thoughts.
Ben (12:40):
And what's that concept called?
Oh yeah, neuroplasticity, yes.
Liz (12:44):
Neuroplasticity and she's worked with people who have had
whole parts of their brains.
You grew up how your habits areand how you think, and what God
(13:12):
has always said in his word istrue, and science is just
catching up.
This isn't like something.
God knows what he's talkingabout in his word, especially
when it comes to Philippians 4,8, which I think we're going to
get into that scripture later.
It's one of my favorites in hisword, especially when it comes
to Philippians 4.8, which Ithink we're going to get into
that scripture later.
Ben (13:23):
It's one of my favorites.
Liz (13:25):
But you know that literally you can reprogram your brain to
think positively.
So anyway, she has all thisstuff.
That's out there.
I highly recommend her.
The book is really great.
She's a fantastic author, she'sa great speaker, she has a
beautiful accent and her clotheslook cool Like I'm.
Like the girl is checks all theboxes.
She checks all the boxes.
(13:45):
She's not your typicalscientist.
Ben (13:47):
So honing in on the negative stuff for just a second
, okay.
I think it's important torealize that sometimes that
negative thought process doesaffect our views and our
thoughts on God.
And so I read a book called theGod-Shaped Brain by Tim Jennings
(14:10):
and he talks about some commonmisconceptions or misrepresented
views of God and I thought thatwas really interesting and I
know I've thought these in myupbringing once or twice and had
to like kind of shake free ofthem.
But he talks about a few ofthem.
(14:31):
I'll go through them real quick.
The cosmic cop, so alwayswanting to catch us, so thinking
that God is like this you knowcosmic cop who's just waiting to
put you in jail or to catch youdoing something wrong.
Cosmic cop who's just waitingto put you in jail or to catch
you doing something wrong.
Another misconception is thedistant watchmaker, so like just
(14:55):
uninvolved, he's wound up theuniverse and he's letting it
kind of just go off to its owndevices and he's no longer
active or present in the day today.
And then there's this other,one another misconception that
we have of God or we think aboutGod it's the celestial vending
machine.
Wow so basically, god is SantaClaus, where we just get what we
want and we just equate him tothe commodity of getting things.
(15:22):
The genie in the bottle.
Yeah, the genie in the bottle,the vending machine, the vending
machine, the bottle.
Yeah, the genie in the bottle,the vending machine, essentially
the vending machine, yeah, andthen this one, this one, I think
, affected me the most, thislast one here, the angry judge.
So, primarily punitive orprimarily punishing.
Right.
That one, I think, is intense,because and Tim talks about this
(15:44):
in his book when you have fearof God, that is not just the
healthy fear, but like the fearof being blasted or the fear of
being like always scrutinized oralways punished.
That can lead to anxiety andanxiety can form stress and just
(16:04):
a stress response.
And if you stay in that stressresponse, we know that that's
terrible for your health.
Absolutely Not only mental, butphysical health as well.
Liz (16:12):
Yeah.
Ben (16:12):
So you literally can get sick because of your distorted
views on God, on the Lord, yeah,yes.
Yeah, so that's really powerful.
Going through that book wasvery helpful for me because
seeing God as a God primarily oflove is so freeing, because it
helps tear down those mentalimages, those false mental
(16:35):
images that you had in yourbrain and trying to rewire our
brains to think about Godthrough mostly love and the way
he describes himself in theBible, which is kind of where I
want to go next, right, and it'sso much better.
It's so much better Like what wetypically project or what we
get out of culture.
Right or maybe even what we'vegrown up with.
(16:55):
Right.
When we allow God to define whohe is by what he says he is in
the Bible.
I think we're just shocked andsurprised and also like
reaffirmed Well, and he'srelational.
Liz (17:07):
Intensely, intensely relational, intensely relational
.
Yes, yes, I know.
Ben (17:11):
And we've learned that even just recently.
Liz (17:17):
I was going to say I would have to say probably this last
year, if I were to say one wordover my walk with the Lord, this
last year would be relational.
Yeah, like he's so relational.
Ben (17:22):
He's so relational?
Yeah for sure, so let's jump init.
So this is, I think, a prettycommon way that we've heard God
described.
It's from Psalms, Psalms 103.8.
The Lord is compassionate andgracious, slow to anger and
abounding in love.
Liz (17:38):
I love that scripture.
It's one of my favoritescriptures.
There's a beautiful song outthere.
Ben (17:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's great.
I'm not going to sing it, butit's a great song.
So that's a popular verse.
But what's cool about thatverse is it actually references
something else in the Bible, andit's actually referencing
Exodus 34, 6 through 7, wherethe Lord is talking about
himself, right.
So God is saying this is who Iam and this is what I'm like,
(18:03):
and that's super importantbecause we allow other
influences to kind of definewhat we think and what we feel
about who the Lord is.
But if we refocus our efforts onletting God define himself
through his own language andeven his own name, that can be
powerful, because then you kindof strip away what you've built
(18:27):
up God to be in your head andyou're like, wait a minute,
let's make sure that we'revalidating what I'm thinking
with what God is saying in thescriptures.
Liz (18:35):
And what happened in Exodus ?
Where is this happening then?
Ben (18:37):
So this is happening with Moses, and there's this fun word
that I like to say he lovesthis word.
Liz (18:47):
This is what I'm gearing up to.
I'm like, here it comes.
Ben (18:49):
Get ready the Tetragrammaton.
Liz (18:53):
Is that what was in the Back to the Future?
What was that thing called theFlex Capacitor?
Ben (19:02):
Not quite the Flex Capacitor Not quite.
It kind of sounds like itshould be.
Liz (19:06):
Well, hey, I'm already throwing out all my old school
stuff.
Cool Okay.
Ben (19:14):
So the Tetragrammatron oh my gosh Is a Greek word to
describe.
Liz (19:18):
It's Greek.
Yes, wow, it's all Greek to mepeople.
Ben (19:22):
It's a Greek word, wow, it's a Greek word to describe
the four the Hebrew concept ofwho God says he is which is the
I am yeah.
Okay, so that's Yahweh and youknow that comes.
So basically, we we actuallydon't really know, I think, the
(19:43):
original Hebrew how to pronounceall that was in there, cause
there's this way that the HebrewBible was written uh ancient
Hebrew, where you didn't have umsome punctuation.
You didn't have somepunctuation.
You didn't have vowels.
Right.
Things were just abbreviated forbrevity's sake so that we could
get it done quickly, because itwas just basically copy.
Liz (20:02):
Well, and they say also when you say Yahweh, it sounds
like breath.
Ben (20:05):
So even when we're breathing.
Liz (20:08):
We're saying his name, but anyway, that's a whole, nother
deep dive.
That is yeah, stay on topic.
Stay on topic.
Ben (20:13):
No, no, this is great.
There's so much to this.
You can spend, literally, youknow, days and days just going
through all of it.
It's pretty cool.
Liz (20:25):
But the first time we see the tetragrammatron, the flex
capacitor.
Ben (20:26):
I like that word Is in.
I'm sorry, the first time thatGod says it and likens it to
himself is in Exodus 3, 14.
So this is the burning bushencounter that Moses has Right.
Right.
And Moses is like hey, who do Isay, sent me.
Basically asking God.
Liz (20:44):
When he's going to go back.
Yeah, yeah, go back to theIsraelites.
Ben (20:54):
Like who do?
I say you know, sent me.
And then the.
Lord says I am who I am.
Say this to the people ofIsrael I am has sent me to you,
yep.
So this is the introductionthat God gives for Moses to
basically go and say to theHebrew people so it's the first
(21:15):
time that we see God talkingabout himself and giving himself
a name, and this is superimportant.
Right?
The I am.
There's so much to unpack there.
Right, there can be the conceptof faithfulness or fidelity.
The I am, I am who I am.
But I also think at some levelit's kind of an invitation into
the mystery of God.
Like I am.
Oh yeah.
Like what does that cause you tothink about?
(21:36):
When someone says I am, youautomatically think you is, you
are, but what are you?
like you are who you are.
I am who I am.
What is that?
I think that kind of begins aline of questioning, a line of
intrigue and mystery into whoGod is.
A line of intrigue and mysteryinto who God is.
And in Exodus 34, 6 through 7,again we see the Tetragrammatron
(22:02):
used there and God comes beforeMoses and explains his
character and it's so cool, hesays third and fourth
(22:35):
generations.
So this is super important.
This is like one of the mostquoted passages of the Bible in
the Bible.
So it's central to who God isand I want to break that down
very quickly.
I know we're kind of campingout here and Liz is giving me
the long look.
Liz (22:46):
No, I looked away.
I looked away.
Ben (22:51):
But I'll make it quick.
So we see a few characterdescriptions in this verse,
right, and it's where we get theconcept of who God is from a
character standpoint.
Liz (23:04):
Which is why do we want this?
Ben (23:05):
We want this because this is central to how we relate to
God.
If we're made in God's image,we need to understand who God is
from a character perspective,because I honestly think when
we're made in his image, he'snot talking about necessarily a
physical form, or even afunctional form.
(23:25):
I think what he's talking aboutis a character.
Yeah, and when we can reflectGod's character by doing the
same things that he does, bybeing the same way that he is, I
think that's when we are backto our original design and
that's when we feel the mostalive is when we understand his
(23:46):
character and we live out thatcharacter.
Right.
He's created us to be that.
Liz (23:51):
Right.
Ben (23:52):
In that image.
Liz (23:52):
And it's all about thoughts .
A lot of it is about thoughts.
Ben (23:56):
I think it starts with thoughts right.
It starts with the knowledge ofGod and then it moves to the
love of God and being able tofully love him and love others,
and a lot of how we do that andhow we relate to that is what we
think about God and weunderstand his character, and so
he's compassionate, he'sgracious, he's slow to anger,
(24:18):
he's abounding in chesed, whichis loyal love, covenant,
faithfulness.
Liz (24:22):
Rich in love.
Ben (24:23):
So it's that I am who I am.
I'm going to be who I'm goingto be that faithful peace of God
.
Liz (24:29):
You just said one of your favorite words and nobody caught
it.
Hasid, you say this word a lotI do, you do.
Ben (24:38):
Yeah, well, yeah, especially with our
conversations.
I really love that, becauseit's kind of a difficult thing
to translate in English.
Liz (24:46):
Here it comes people.
Get ready, yeah, okay go ahead,ben, talk about hasid.
Ben (24:50):
But it's, yeah, it's the concept of faithful love.
It's not just love, but it'slove that endures.
It's a covenant love, it's aattachment love.
There's a book out there thatI'm reading that kind of goes
(25:14):
into that concept.
It's called Renovated and kindof expands upon the work of
Dallas Jenkins.
Yeah, and it's just yeah, it'sgreat.
It really dives deep into thisconcept of attachment love,
which is where this has saidkind of comes into the action.
Part of it, like how we attachand how we feel love through the
(25:35):
concept of chesed.
Liz (25:36):
It's true, it's good, it's really good, it's good.
Ben (25:39):
The last thing I want to mention real quick on this
character breakdown of God isthere is a tension between
justice and forgiveness.
Right.
Right, right, and we see it, andreally I believe it's read to
be poetic in the sense wheremaintaining love to thousands
(26:01):
means thousands of generationsRight.
And it follows up at the end bysaying that the guilty will
receive that generationaljustice, even to the third and
fourth generation.
So there is this concept of,you know, god having justice
Right.
But what's better than hisjustice is his mercy and his
(26:22):
love.
And that flows to thousands ofgenerations, whereas the justice
is to the third and fourth.
It's good, huge distinction,huge, very important.
Liz (26:31):
Huge, you did good.
Yeah, thank you for breakingthat down, thanks.
Ben (26:35):
Well, hopefully I didn't spend too much time on it.
Liz (26:36):
You did amazing.
I think everybody got theconcept.
Ben (26:39):
Okay, fantastic.
So what does this mean for?
Like a real life view of God,like how does this relate?
Like practical.
Like practical stuff and I thinkthere's a few stories.
One's a biblical story that youmentioned that I thought was
really cool.
The other one is we knewsomeone from our youth and he
was a leader.
He was a youth leader and hehad this motivational poster up
(27:03):
on his wall.
Basically, it said others may,you may not, and it always
struck me as odd.
I always wondered like, wow, ofall the motivational sayings
you know that maybe you couldput from from the Lord or
whatever, and it definitely waslike it's supposed to be from
God, like this is what you know.
This is what motivated thisperson, right?
(27:23):
It just struck me as odd.
It's like not God's love or notthat he, you know.
Just for some reason this was amotivational part of this
person's spiritual formation.
And it seemed punitive.
It seemed like this was ajudgmental thing, or?
(27:45):
An anger thing, or like a maybenot anger, but just a.
Liz (27:49):
Yeah, chastisement.
Yeah, it wasn't leading in love.
Ben (27:53):
And I understand the part about discipline.
Right but discipline comesbecause of love.
Right.
And so it was just weird.
It always struck me as odd tosee this up on the wall and
think that that's motivatingsomeone to go deeper into God or
to love God more because of thethings you can't do.
It just seemed backwards to meRight.
Right, right right.
Yeah, it seemed like wait aminute, we shouldn't focus on,
(28:15):
like what we can't do.
We should focus on what we cando and what God gives us, you
know, to just feel his love.
Like that ought to be more ofthe motivating factor and
because I know that that shapedhis thoughts.
Liz (28:28):
Oh, and his personality or his everything?
Yes, yeah, yeah.
His personality or hiseverything?
Yes, yeah yeah.
Ben (28:33):
It was just you could tell, like that concept of well,
others may, but you may not.
No it's.
You can't do that.
You know it's restrictive, it'sit's negative.
Liz (28:45):
And there was that dimension to it.
Well, and there's boundaries.
The Lord has boundaries andthings.
Sure, but it was your view hisview yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then another example isWait, I want to say something
that our friend this is kind ofthe opposite she had by her
kitchen sink for years.
Jesus loves you, but I'm hisfavorite.
Yeah, I think that's amazing,that's cool.
Ben (29:07):
That's a healthy view.
That is a healthy view.
Liz (29:09):
Because you're like I'm his favorite.
Yeah, Well, we're all hisfavorite, Right, we're all his
favorite.
But it's like Jesus loves you,but I'm his favorite, and so
when you have that view, it'slike I'm coming into the arms of
a happy papa and I think alsojust, I know we're going to get
into more of this, but there area lot of people who did not
have great father figures intheir life.
(29:29):
I know I didn't, and so the Lordhas had to be my father and,
truthfully, being in marriage,I've learned a lot about the
father's love and us raisingkids and watching you be a
father, and there's been otherexamples in my life that the
Lord brought, even when I wasyoung, to show me that and so to
(29:53):
say Jesus loves you, but I'mhis favorite.
For some people listening tothat, you're just like I don't
even know how to wrap my mindaround it.
Like how can I, even you knowcause?
You may be, others may, but youmay not like?
Ben (30:05):
you're like.
I feel like he's going to hit.
Liz (30:07):
He's that cop that he's about to take you to jail.
I'm going to jail, I know it,instead of that loving father
that he is yeah, it's soimportant because that's where a
lot of our identity comes fromright.
Ben (30:20):
It's our connections.
It's who we love, and it's likewho you love tends to become
your people right.
And so a lot of our identitycomes from that train of thought
.
It's the people you love.
And then seeing yourself as agroup and then taking on that
(30:41):
group identity and internalizingit and realizing like this is
who we are.
This is who I am.
So it's important, like it'sreally important, that we
understand our thoughts aboutthe Lord, especially if we say
we're his.
Right.
You know that shapes then theother people that you connect to
.
So, if you think of God asangry and you think of God as
punitive, then you might startconnecting with other people who
(31:02):
have that same-.
Liz (31:03):
Absolutely.
Ben (31:05):
Viewpoint yeah, viewpoint.
Liz (31:06):
And they're living through that Right right.
Ben (31:09):
And then you start connecting and it's like you got
to be careful.
You got to be careful that youhave the right view of God, that
you take God for who he says heis Right, as loving and
compassionate.
Slow to anger abounding in hassaid and maintaining love to
thousands of generations.
Right.
But by no means clearing theguilty.
So again, we have to have itall in that right perspective,
(31:31):
but we know that God is mostlyabout love and forgiveness.
Yes, he is.
And so if we try to bring anyother distorted view, it can
really distort our entireidentity.
Right, but tell us about thisother real life example that
happened in the scriptures withthe spies.
Liz (31:52):
Oh, the spies.
Okay, I was like, is thisanother story?
Ben (31:55):
I'm like.
Liz (31:55):
I don't remember another story, oh yeah.
So when the 12 spies went intoIsrael or went into the Cana,
into the promised land, and theycame back with a report, 10 had
a bad report, right, and twohad the good report, which were
Joshua and Caleb, who, by theway, were the ones that were
able to go into the landeventually.
And, by the way, were the onesthat were able to go into the
(32:16):
land eventually, and this causedthe children of Israel to go
through the desert for 40 yearsand I have been in that desert
and it is not pretty.
Okay, did you ride a camel orsomething?
Yeah, I did.
I was on a camel for three days.
I went on a camel trip.
It was awesome.
That sounds awesome.
His name was Gideon.
That was the name of my camel.
He actually saved my life.
That's a whole nother storyWe'll have to share in another
episode.
But he did.
I almost fell off the cliff andhe's, he saved my life.
(32:39):
That's just another story.
Okay, but when, um, thosechildren or the, the spies I
shouldn't say children when theycame back, the 10 that had the
negative view, they like, werein fear and there were giants in
the land.
Sure, there were giants,they're probably nephilim.
There were giants in the land.
Sure, there were giants,they're probably Nephilim there
were giants in the land.
Okay, and then.
But the two that came back andhad the positive report they
(33:01):
knew I am was with them theythey're like, we can do this
because they knew the character.
They knew the character of Godand they knew that he was for
them.
And so it really I mean becauseof the views it forced him to
go in the desert for 40 years.
An entire group of people.
Ben (33:19):
Yeah, crazy.
That is crazy when you thinkabout that.
Liz (33:22):
That was all about thoughts .
Ben (33:24):
Yeah, thoughts, and not knowing the character of God and
then ultimately not havingfaith that God will do what he
says he's going to do.
Liz (33:32):
Which is scary, and we understand that.
Yeah, we've been faced withthings in our years of marriage.
Ben (33:37):
Right.
Liz (33:37):
That it's like okay, lord, we're doing this in faith.
Yeah, how is this going to work?
Ben (33:42):
Yeah, it kind of also reminds me about Jonah.
Oh yeah, and one of themotivating factors for Jonah not
going to Nineveh was the factthat he knew God was merciful.
Right.
And he didn't want to see Godhave mercy on his enemies.
Crazy, that's wild to me.
Liz (34:01):
It should be wild.
It should be wild.
Ben (34:03):
It's not God who's saying hey, you know, I want these
people to just be wiped off themap.
It's Jonah who was like wait aminute, these are Assyrians,
Right.
Like these are the people,people that-.
Liz (34:19):
Well, and they were really bad, you and I over the summer
we went to the British Museum inLondon, yeah, sennacherib, and
we got to see his stuff.
And I mean, if you read whatthey did to Israel, and this was
a generation before Jonah- hewas bitter.
I mean they did terribleatrocities to the Jews.
It's terrible.
Ben (34:36):
This is crazy because this is like an Old Testament example
of like love your enemies.
Right.
Right, like God's the same.
And then, jesus, we read aboutthe Beatitudes and loving our
enemies and the rain, you know,falling on the just and the
unjust.
And then here you have thisexample of like God calling
Jonah to, to call Nineveh torepentance, but because God
(35:00):
wants to redeem this people heloves everybody, yeah, and.
Jonah's like oh no, thank you,they're my enemies.
Liz (35:07):
Jumps on a boat and goes the wrong way, right, right,
well, and I'm also just thinkingto when David, the people, when
he shouldn't have counted thepeople.
And then it was here comes thejudgment or what's going to
happen.
Ben (35:19):
Yeah.
Liz (35:20):
And David made the choice and he said I would rather you
judge me.
Ben (35:24):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, he gave him the option.
He gave him the options.
Because he knew that God wouldbe merciful.
And he did come Right.
You know, be merciful and hedid come right.
Liz (35:35):
You know, there was judgment and god is a god of
judgment we need to rememberthis as well, like this is true
part of his character.
He mentions his character rightum, but I think it's knowing
jesus loves you.
But I'm his favorite.
Ben (35:47):
I like that yeah, I like that.
It's, that it's thatperspective.
It's that perspective so whatcan we take away from?
this.
I mean there's a lot, there's alot of practicals.
Let's get into practicals.
Let's jump to the practicals Allright.
So this book, Renovation of theHeart, by Dallas Willard, talks
about a lot of practical stepsfor thought transformation.
So number one daily meditationon scripture.
(36:10):
Right, we have to have theknowledge of God to understand
the character of God.
Yes.
So just like God revealedhimself in Exodus and revealed
himself to Moses and talks aboutbasically the I am the, I am a
God merciful, and he just goesdown the line.
He gives his characterattributes.
(36:31):
Like if we don't have ameditation on the character of
God on a regular basis, then wecan start to allow those
thoughts to kind of creep backin and those distorted views or
even what culture says, and youknow, what's screaming the
loudest?
Liz (36:47):
Yeah, what's screaming the loudest?
What's screaming the loudest?
Ben (36:48):
So we've got to make sure that we give, I believe, daily
meditation on the scriptures sothat we can have the knowledge
of God and thus the character ofGod.
Liz (36:56):
And I just want to say, too , that we know that there's a
wide range of people who listento our podcast.
Ben (37:03):
Yeah.
Liz (37:04):
And no matter where you are , no matter what season you're
in, just one scripture justmeditating on that and thinking
about that throughout the day.
So much can be unpacked in it,because his word is living and
it's alive.
Ben (37:18):
Yes.
Liz (37:19):
And I'm thinking about the seasons when I had lots of
little ones.
I mean, we had three in diaperstwice, three in diapers two
different times.
So that's a lot of diapers in aday.
And we were always pottytraining and there was always so
many things going on and I wasof course always pregnant, which
we've talked about that a lotbut even in those years which
(37:41):
are a blur, but even thoseblurry years in the midst of it
and I didn't do it perfectly,but it was like the Lord's grace
was there because of hischaracter.
And it was just even a simplesong.
Sometimes that.
I would wake up in the morningand it would be a little song in
my heart and I would kind ofjust sing that song throughout
the day and then it would be mybread.
It would be life-giving to me.
(38:03):
It would be the meditation itmay be a VeggieTales song that
the kids would be listening to,you know or even when we were
teaching our kids first timeobedience in that song.
Slow obedience is no obediencelike that was convicting for me,
like you know.
But remembering that it's notthis like he's coming down hard
(38:24):
on me, but it's because I wantto listen and obey yeah because,
he loves me and I want to obeyhis word so like, so, so much.
no matter where you are, maybeyou're in a season where your
kids are playing a lot of sportsright now and it's just like
you know, or maybe you're anempty nester and you have you're
, you're retired and you havelike ample amount of time.
(38:44):
It's that it's all thedifferent seasons, but it's
making a priority.
Ben (38:49):
Sure, it's the first fruits concept.
It's right Giving the best ofyour day to the Lord, I think.
For me that means the mornings.
Liz (38:58):
And for some people it's not the morning Sure.
Ben (39:00):
Sometimes it's the evenings .
Liz (39:01):
It's the evenings and we were just talking to our kids
about this, because we're reallytrying to help them grow in
their devotion with Jesus, andso we talked about what are
practically what all thosethings look like and going out
and taking a walk yeah,practically what all those
things look like and you knowgoing out and taking a walk.
Yeah, one of the kids said Ireally meet with God in the
shower.
I said you're my kid.
I don't know why, but he justshows up in the shower.
Ben (39:20):
It happens to me sometimes.
Yeah, it's like.
Liz (39:21):
I think it's because nobody else is around me, right?
I can finally have quiet.
You know, and it's just it's.
I'll have the Bible app and Ihave it playing a lot of times
too, but anyway it's good yeahso it's practical.
Ben (39:33):
Yeah, yeah.
So daily meditation super bigright, super important.
Another thing this is reallyinteresting that came from this
book Renovation of the Heartjournaling revelations.
Oh yes.
So, as God reveals hischaracter to you, writing that
down, keeping a journal of that.
Liz (39:49):
Because you think you're going to remember it, but you
don't.
Ben (39:52):
Yeah, yeah, we've both kept journals and we've got a friend
who does amazing with thesejournals.
Liz (39:57):
Oh my gosh, she has boxes and boxes and boxes and boxes of
journals.
Ben (40:01):
We're not quite that level.
She's a rock star, yeah yeah,and this is through having lots
of kids too.
Liz (40:08):
There's been some really cool things that have affected
us, even from her journalingyeah, from her journaling, yeah,
dreams andaling, yeah, and shegoes back and she finds them.
Ben (40:12):
Oh yeah, I'm like whoa yeah , we're, we're more of, well,
I'm more of the once or twice amonth kind of journaling, but
you're getting it in there, I'mgetting it in there.
Yeah, yeah, trying to get it inthere, and then you do have one
for the kids like we throughtheir, their years.
Liz (40:25):
We'll pick it up and write.
You know, kind of right inthere and so we're going to hand
it to them when they leave thenest.
Ben (40:30):
Yeah, yeah, because I think journaling your thoughts and
your appreciations.
Liz (40:36):
And your revelations, and your revelations is super
important.
What is he whispering to you?
Ben (40:39):
Exactly, especially about his character, because, again,
we're made in that image.
We have to reflect it.
Liz (40:43):
Okay, so I have one real quick that I'm just going to
share, okay.
So when COVID came andeverything was shutting down and
the kids, so when it allhappened was during the kids'
spring break this is back whenthey were in school and it was
during their spring break and sothen we were not going back to
school.
The whole world didn't knowwhat was going on and the email
(41:05):
went out and said we're justgonna take the week off and then
we'll figure it out.
Well then, after the one weekso now the kids have been out of
school for two weeks come tothe school and pick up your
homework packets for the nexttwo or three weeks I forget what
it was.
So every teacher had to go in,they had to put everything
together and us, as parents, hadto go it was very organized and
pick up the packets for all thekids.
(41:25):
And I mean we were kind offearful because we didn't know
what was going to go on in theworld.
As I'm driving into the schooland I have a song that's going
through my heart this is a lotof times, how the Lord will
speak to me is like little songs, and the song was don't you
worry about a thing, don't youworry about a thing, mama.
(41:47):
And as I'm turning into school.
I was like wait a second, theLord is speaking to me, he's
speaking to me, don't you worryabout a thing, do not fear, do
not fear.
And he even said mama.
And I'm like, oh, and so itjust changed my perspective.
I mean, granted, we had lotsmore ahead of us that we didn't
(42:08):
know, but it was like don'tagree with fear, don't you worry
about a thing.
You keep your eyes on me and Iknow people walk through all
kinds of stuff, and I'm notdiminishing the hardships that
people faced I am not, but itwas just that little sweet as I
like to say kiss from heaven.
Don't you worry about a thing,don't you worry about a thing,
(42:28):
mama.
I'm like, oh my gosh.
And I held on to that formonths months.
Ben (42:34):
It's kind of funny because one of the most common things
that the Lord or angels speak topeople when there's that
encounter is do not be afraid.
Liz (42:42):
Do not be afraid.
Well, because they're angels,hello.
I mean, if I had an angel showup in front of me, I think I
would pass out, I think I wouldhide, I think so too, but it's
just, I mean that's cool, that'slike a-.
Do not be afraid, you aremassive yeah.
Ben (42:56):
And that goes, I think, back to our thoughts, right,
yeah.
Right the character.
That anxiety, that fearsometimes is rooted in
misconstrued thoughts, so it canhave a massive impact, which,
that's the next point, iscatching and correcting
distorted thoughts.
Right, so we talked about twoso far daily meditation,
(43:17):
journaling, revelations of God'scharacter, and then catching
and correcting distortedthoughts.
Liz (43:21):
I love this one Taking your thoughts captive is really what
?
Ben (43:23):
that is, but again specifically as it applies to
the character of God, becausethat's so central to how we form
our identity.
Liz (43:32):
So I am all over this one about taking your thoughts
captive, because the battlefieldof the mind, I think there's a
book out there by Joyce Meyers.
Okay, so many good books, somany good books and so much good
stuff.
And it's true, it's true, it'strue, it's true.
Do you want to have more blackforests in your brain, or do you
want to have more green forests?
And so you, if the thoughtskeep on going.
(43:53):
That's what science tells usthat when you're thinking a
thought, they see that it justkeeps growing and growing.
That's what science tells usthat when you're thinking a
thought, they see that it justkeeps growing and growing and
growing.
You have to stop that thought.
And the Bible says to take yourthoughts captive, and so
something that I would teachthose that were on my team,
because we were in sales.
I mean there's a lot ofthoughts.
I mean especially when you'relike I want to achieve and hit
(44:13):
these goals and hit these marks,no matter where you are right.
But when I was working with myteam, we literally would say
cancel, cancel, cancel, like youknow, cancel cancel cancel
culture Can't Lord.
Not that.
Sorry, that was wrong.
I love you, that is not what Iwas talking about.
But you have to go cancel,cancel, cancel, and I would snap
my fingers, cancel, cancel,cancel.
(44:34):
And what happens is is like youlike, you're like nope, I'm
going to take that thoughtcaptive.
It is not healthy, it is notgoing to produce good fruit in
my life I am not going to makeagreement with that and I'm
casting it down.
You were being a lumberjack.
I thought jack.
I thought jack.
Oh, that's funny, that's good.
We should put that on a t-shirtor a hat.
Be a thought jack, so thatwould.
(44:55):
That would strike up a reallygood conversation, and you
should do like the, that youknow, take every thought,
captive scripture, orphilippians 4, 8, okay, anyway,
we're going on, okay.
So, but in the process too.
I know and I'm speaking from awoman that a lot of times we get
in our head and sometimes yourhead is a dangerous neighborhood
and you do not need to go inthere by yourself of those,
(45:15):
those crazy black trees you'retalking about, and you do not
need to go in there by yourself,especially if it's full of
those crazy black trees you weretalking about.
Yeah, no, you do not need it.
So we have the help of the Lord, we have the help of the Holy
Spirit to help us, guide usright.
How do we get good thoughts?
By reading his word byrewriting our brains, by
thinking correctly, and I knowfor me a lot of times where I
(45:36):
find myself in a spiral of badthoughts can be in the shower.
It can be when I'm alone in thecar, and it's like you do not
want to go down that spiralbecause, before you know it, you
have gotten mad at five or sixdifferent people.
You have worked out a scenariothat is not even true.
Ben (45:54):
Right.
Liz (45:54):
And you're there at the other end and it's like you're
exhausted.
Ben (45:58):
And I think there's a key distinction here, Like we're not
saying stuff your emotions,stuff your feelings don't
process them.
What we're saying I think whatyou're saying specifically is
don't feed that negativefeedback cycle where you just
ruminate on the bad.
Look at the good, yeah, processwhat you're going through.
Obviously, you have to get thatout.
(46:19):
You can't stuff it.
Liz (46:20):
Do that through prayer, do it through journaling.
If you need a counselor, get acounselor.
Go to your pastor, go to yourleader.
Talk to your spouse.
Ben (46:27):
Yes.
Liz (46:27):
Unless your spouse is the problem, just kidding.
Ben (46:29):
Oh boy.
Liz (46:31):
We should do an episode on that.
But no, in all seriousness, getthe help that you need Right.
Get some right thinking.
Ben (46:39):
Right, it's both and.
It's a both and.
Liz (46:41):
Yeah, but you can prevent forest fires.
Ben (46:45):
Smokey the bear.
Liz (46:45):
Smokey the bear.
You can prevent it and you knowwhat.
And I just want to say toanybody who struggles in this
area you really can.
It is training.
Ben (46:53):
Yes.
It's forming the habit well,just like you know, just like
anybody who is doing any kind ofathletic achievement, right,
you can't just jump in and run amarathon.
No, you have to take thoselittle steps and that little
training you like couch to 5k ohgosh, we, we, we gotta save
that for another time.
Liz (47:11):
That's a good one now okay so that's great.
Ben (47:15):
I feel feel like you know tons of practical examples there
.
Another good book is theAnxiety Reset.
Oh yeah, and we reduce anxietywhen we trust God's goodness
right.
That's one takeaway from thatbook Better stress management
when that happens.
Improved emotional regulationyes, there's so much about
trusting God's goodness, hischaracter, yeah, and a lot of
(47:37):
great practical knowledge comesfrom anxiety research and it's a
very good book to start with.
Yeah, and specifically tomental health.
Liz (47:43):
For mental health I think it's really really good,
especially if you're feelinganxiety.
I also want to say put yourphone down get off social media,
and it's not just because ofwhat people's lives are looking
at.
That's not what I'm talkingabout.
I'm talking about the scienceand your brain, with you
scrolling and looking at ascreen that, that
is giving you, because what'shappening is your endorphins and
(48:04):
your dopamine hits and that'sactually causing anxiety.
And so put your phone down,limit yourself throughout the
day or all day, don't turnscreens off at a certain time or
time block.
We really need to do an episodeon this.
Ben (48:18):
We're going to.
Liz (48:19):
Okay, we've teased it too many times, yeah, but put your
phone down and get outside, godraw, go journal and help that
anxiety come down.
Ben (48:27):
But anyway no that's great, that's beautiful.
One other book real quick andthis is the impact on
relationships, so kind of.
We already talked about thespiritual stuff.
We talked about mental health.
Right.
This book is you Are what youLove.
Oh yeah, and it's the impact onrelationships, kind of with
what we're talking about hereHabits too.
Yep.
And so how you view God affectshow you parent Right.
(48:50):
It affects how you love yourspouse.
Liz (48:53):
Yep Friendships, community Friendships, even community.
Ben (49:01):
Yeah, like there's so much that those thoughts really
impact because it's identity,yes, right, yeah.
We're made in the image of God.
We're made to reflect hischaracter.
When we don't, it changes thenature of who we are.
Right.
Right, and so we have to getback to knowing God, knowing who
he is, what he's like, andthinking on those things and
participating in the samecharacter attributes that he has
and you can trust him.
Liz (49:22):
Yeah, 100% you can trust him, and I know some people out
there are just feeling hurt.
Ben (49:26):
Yeah.
Liz (49:27):
They're feeling like.
I'm just thinking of aconversation I had a couple of
weeks with a young lady and shewas just having a really hard
time trusting the Lord andbecause she felt hurt and we got
to the core of it and it waslike, okay, what are the steps
that we're going to do to foryou to see that he's not
standing there with a broom andabout to knock you over the head
(49:50):
?
Because, he's disappointed inyou.
Ben (49:51):
Right, right.
Liz (49:53):
He loves you.
Ben (49:54):
Yeah.
Liz (49:54):
You're human.
Ben (49:56):
Get some of that has said.
Liz (49:57):
That's has said yeah and I human Get some of that has said
that has said yeah.
And I asked her.
I said you know where are youreading in the scriptures?
Ben (50:04):
right now, yeah, yeah.
Liz (50:05):
Where are you?
You know, because he'sbeautiful.
Ben (50:08):
Yes.
Liz (50:09):
He's friendly.
Ben (50:10):
Yeah.
Liz (50:11):
And he likes you.
He doesn't just tolerate you,he likes you.
Not only that, he likes yourenemies too.
He does, which is really hard.
Well, and I'm just thinking ofa scripture that's in Song of
Solomon.
When I got this and it was likeoh my gosh and the scriptures.
You know he's talking to theshulmite, but he says, with one
(50:32):
glance of your eyes, I am.
I'm ravished and you know it'svery poetic language and you
know I was always taught don'tread that until you're married.
You know, that's what I wastaught, Well.
Ben (50:48):
Song of Solomon.
And then when I read it, I waslike huh, what the heck?
Liz (50:50):
Pomegranates and under a tree and then these people that
I was reading it with were likehilarious about it.
I'm thinking you guys, this isweird, Like love language,
whatever, Anyway.
But I mean, if you turn to meand start saying that my neck is
like the tower of I anyway, Ilove you.
Don't say that to me so, butwith one glance of your eye.
(51:13):
So this is to us, this is toyou, with you just making a
glance, like you guys, even usjust talking about this.
You listening to this on thispodcast.
He is so happy, like it says,his heart is ravished, which,
when you read that it's talkedabout, he twirls and he dances
like he's cheering us on, and Ialways get this picture of us as
(51:34):
toddlers learning to walk.
We we've watched six of ourkids take their first steps.
We- were so blessed to be thereand we have some on video and
the kids watch those over andover again and we're all
cheering them on.
Ben (51:45):
That is literally what the Lord is doing he's looking at us
as we're toddling through life.
Liz (51:51):
And yes, there's a maturing .
Yes, we put away childishthings, yes, but at the core of
it, like he's, happy.
Ben (51:59):
Yeah, the core of it, he's love.
Liz (52:01):
He's love.
Ben (52:02):
Yeah.
Liz (52:02):
He's love and he's cheering us on.
So when I was speaking withthis young lady, I'm like he
like, really likes you.
He isn't tolerating you because, she had the wrong view.
Right Her thoughts were offbecause she hadn't thought the
right thoughts.
And there's a whole thing andall that, but he's cheering us
on and just the glance.
Ben (52:22):
just think about it just a glance.
Liz (52:23):
I just glance at you, he's loving that.
He is loving that.
I love that.
I love that.
Give us more.
Let's go, oh man it's so good.
Ben (52:30):
There's so much we can say, but let's just jump to a couple
scripture takeaways.
Right, I'll hit the first one.
Maybe you can hit the secondone, cause I know you like that.
That's your one of yourfavorite verses.
Liz (52:41):
Oh, I get to say my favorite scripture.
Ben (52:43):
That's right.
So second Corinthians 10, five,we demolish arguments and every
pretension that sets itself upagainst the knowledge of God,
and we take captive everythought to make it obedient to
Christ.
So again, it's that knowledgepiece right.
Yeah, the knowledge of God andreally the mind of Christ.
Yeah, you know, and so like themind of Christ.
(53:03):
I feel like you can describethat as the character of Christ,
the character of God Like.
What is he thinking about?
What makes him tick right?
Yeah.
It's that I am who I am.
It's that invitation into themystery of God and to finding
out about who he is, and I feellike that mystery never fully
resolves.
Right.
Like we know a lot because alot's been given to us through
(53:29):
the scriptures, but thescriptures is just a way to get
to the personality of God right.
We can't just limit ourrelationship with the Bible.
It has to get us to the pointwhere we have a relationship
with our creator.
Liz (53:43):
Yeah, Fully God and fully man yeah, that's what scriptures
say.
Ben (53:47):
And discovering him through the scripture, but then
cultivating that relationship,that talking, if you think about
it, scripture is all Godbreathed, but it's literally him
having dialogue with otherpeople.
Right, we can have that samething Right, right, right, right
.
Liz (54:03):
No, it's so good.
And then I also like that word.
Picture that you gave us athought, Jack, yeah thought Jack
.
Taking captive every thoughtand making it obedience to
Christ.
So cancel, cancel, cancel.
Ben (54:16):
That's right.
Liz (54:17):
Yeah, don't get in that spiral.
Stop, stop, stop.
And then I love Philippiansfour, eight, and I'm so glad you
get to Tim.
Let me share the scripture.
But finally, brethren, whateveris true, whatever is honorable,
whatever is just, whatever ispure, whatever is lovely,
whatever is any excellence, ifthere is anything worthy of
(54:37):
praise, think about these things, and I those are green forest
thoughts.
Right, green forest thoughts.
Ben (54:45):
Yeah.
Liz (54:45):
You know, and it doesn't mean that you're Pollyanna- no.
Okay, it doesn't mean thatyou're Pollyanna.
Ben (54:50):
The Psalms is not Pollyanna .
No, there's a lot of lament, ohyeah.
Liz (55:02):
It's and we have, and you guys, we have seasons, we have
ups and downs.
We are going up the hill, downthe hill, we're coming out of a
storm, in the midst of the storm, or going into a storm.
There is life, life, life, life, life.
But in the seasons of life, it'spart of his character to think
on these things and think histhoughts and think his ways, and
I just think so many times formyself when I am in the midst of
a situation, we're goingthrough something, we're looking
(55:24):
at something I'm like, okay, Igot to go spend time with the
Lord and hear what he has to sayLike I got to get anchored in
him.
It's God thoughts.
It's like maybe a scripture,maybe it's just one word, maybe
he gives me a picture, maybethere's a movie and he speaks to
me through the movie.
There's so many.
(55:44):
He's huge, he's a creator, hecreated all of it and it's
beautiful.
This thing that we get to do asbelievers and Jesus is so fun.
It's so fun.
Ben (55:56):
It's almost like we're created to be in relation, oh
Lord.
Liz (56:02):
Yes, ben yes, ben yes, captain obvious.
Ben (56:05):
Anything else?
Do you have anything elsebefore we?
Liz (56:07):
Okay, so we're going to go ahead and wrap this up, so thank
you for being a part of our OneBlessed Mess today.
Don't forget to subscribe, toshare, to like to heart.
However, you're listening tothis.
We love comments.
We love your messages, um, ifyou go to our website, um, our
one blessed messcom, youthere'sa contact form there.
You can contact us through that, um, and then also to follow us
(56:31):
on instagram, follow us onfacebook um share our
information, especially if youthink that there's somebody out
there that would enjoy listeningto our podcast.
We really have the heart andthe desire to serve the body and
really just welcome you intoour conversation.
Ben (56:47):
Yeah, we'd like to hear from you what you would like to
know about or to hear us talkabout, or anything like that.
So what do?
Liz (56:54):
you want to hear us talk about.
I think one that we do need totackle at some point in time is
definitely a screen basedlifestyle, like we've got to get
into that because we're walkingthrough it hard.
Well, and we just want toinvite you into our convictions,
that's really what it's about,yeah.
Yeah, but until next time,everybody, we would love to just
say embrace your beautiful mess, because if our mess can be
(57:18):
blessed, what Ben?
Ben (57:19):
So can yours.
Liz (57:20):
So can yours have a great day.
Welcome to our One Blessed Mess.
This is Ben and Liz and we'rehere telling our story of
raising six kids that we had ineight years while managing an
entrepreneurial home with twobusinesses plus homeschooling,
and we currently have fourteenagers almost five, which is
pretty crazy to think about andof course, we have seven
(00:28):
chickens and two dogs, honestlyjust to keep life interesting.
And boys and interesting.
Those chickens are all over theplace, aren't they?
They are a mess, constant mess,but we love them, we do love
them, yeah, and it's warming up,and so they have been producing
a lot more eggs.
I mean, we're giving our eggsto everybody, aren't we?
Ben (00:47):
That's true.
Liz (00:48):
We eat a lot of eggs, but we can only eat so many eggs
Very true.
Yeah, and we're happy to givethem away, aren't we we?
Ben (00:54):
are.
Yeah, it's our fun eggexperiment.
Liz (01:00):
Egg experiment Wow, he's in marketing, you guys.
Can you tell Egg-esperiment?
Wow, he's in marketing, youguys.
Ben (01:04):
Can you tell, maybe, yeah, maybe we shouldn't say that.
Liz (01:08):
Okay, it's pretty bad actually so what is today's
conversation about?
Ben (01:13):
Today's conversation is about our God thoughts and,
specifically, the power of thesethoughts.
Yeah.
And so-.
Liz (01:20):
Very powerful.
Ben (01:21):
You might think they're inconsequential or small.
Maybe you should say small.
But, these little things, theselittle thoughts that we have
about God and then alsoourselves, can have some really
big impact especially on ourrelationship.
Liz (01:36):
Yes, and if you're married to this man right here, ben
Varan, you cannot have smallthoughts about God, because he's
going to talk about it.
When you're on a date, whenyou're having family dinner,
when you go on a walk, it's likeWell, they might be small, but
we're going to have a lot ofthem.
Yes, yes, yes, but we're goingto be talking about it, that's
true.
So we're really excited aboutthis episode today.
Ben (01:56):
I think it's going to be a fun one.
Liz (01:57):
I think it is too.
We're really excited about it.
It's a good conversation tohave it is good and I think we
all need it.
Go ahead, we do.
Ben (02:06):
Yeah, we all need it and I don't think we take a lot of
time to validate Like we havelots of God thoughts right Right
.
And sometimes we enjoycommunicating those.
But I think also importantlylike do we validate those
thoughts?
We find out where they comefrom.
Are they legitimate thoughts?
(02:27):
We find out where they comefrom.
Are they legitimate thoughts?
Do we talk to other peopleabout them and invite them in to
?
say hey, what do you think aboutthis?
Is this an actual biblical Godthought or not?
But it's those small littlethings that can have a big
impact.
Liz (02:39):
I'm smiling because I feel like everybody is getting a
glimpse into what it's likebeing married to you.
Ben (02:47):
I'm on display.
Liz (02:48):
It's not bad, it's good.
This is actually good.
If you were to come over to ourhouse for dinner or, you know,
have a cup of tea, or Ben lovesto cook barbecue, we probably
are going to get on the subjectin some form or another, like
you're going to make sure wekind of, but it's good, it's
kind of like you right now.
It's where you are.
So let's, let's talk about it,because I'm excited yeah.
Ben (03:08):
Yeah, Okay.
So, like we said, you know alot.
Uh, well, I guess this is a newpart.
A lot of what we conceptualizeabout God comes from our thought
life.
Right and so true.
I think that is understated inmost people's lives, Like we
don't.
We don't realize how importantthat piece is, where you know
(03:31):
you can be doom and gloom inyour thought life.
And that can actually projecton how you perceive God or you
perceive what God is doing inyour life at the moment.
Liz (03:41):
Well, and, and also I'm going to interject, I know you
had a thought Okay, I'm going tointerject, but also it affects
your worldview.
Ben (03:47):
Yes, exactly.
I mean, is that what you'reabout to say?
I think yeah, and I was goingto say it actually goes to the
relationships that you have andcan affect those as well.
Liz (03:55):
And your worldview, if the world is going to burn and be
blown up in fire, or if you'relike I have hope and I have
peace and look at this flowerblooming right now.
Right, exactly, yeah.
Ben (04:06):
It touches a lot of who we are.
Liz (04:08):
See, I'm smart too, you guys.
Ben (04:10):
You are smart.
You're very smart and I thinkyou even have a story about
little things having big impacts.
Liz (04:18):
Oh, yes, I do.
So we were discussing what wewanted to talk about in this
episode and I said I have astory.
We always have so many stories.
This story, wow, just wow, wow,just wow, it's, it's it.
It's a little crazy.
So, um, there's a little.
If you're listening, you can'tsee me do this, but you put a w
(04:40):
up by your, your mouth, and putthe other w up and you say wow,
and that makes the wow Okay, andyou can do, mom, and you can do
cool.
Ben (04:48):
Oh boy, oh wow.
Liz (04:51):
Okay, the C and the L.
Okay.
Anyway, it was wow, becausethis is when my business long,
long, long, long time ago we hadour I was.
I wasn't pregnant with thenumber six, it was in between
number five and number six, andit was the last day of the month
, which was is a really big dealin a lot of businesses, and
mine was a really big dealbecause we had a big goal.
(05:12):
We were pushing for a big goaland you said, hey, why don't I
take all five of our kids out ofthe house and I'm going to take
them for a hike?
And I was like, yes, I lovethis idea, and I had a sister
over who was helping me that day.
We had a lot going on, it wasreally busy and you took the
kids for a hike.
You were gone for quite a whileLonger than we should have been
(05:33):
.
Yeah, and you guys need toremember, I think our oldest was
six, so they were like six,five, four, two and one.
They were little, they were alllittle.
And you even put our youngeston your back, right, didn't you
have like a backpack?
Yeah, I had a little kidcarrier backpack.
Ben (05:51):
Yeah, kid carrier backpack.
Liz (05:52):
Those are great.
Yeah, you had one of those andyou took them on this long hike
and as you were doing the hike Imean you tell the story, you're
the one on the hike I'm likeregurgitating what you told me.
Talk about it.
I see it in your face.
Ben (06:04):
Okay.
So yeah, went on a hike and Ithought I knew exactly where I
was.
Liz (06:12):
Imagine that.
Ben (06:13):
And was doing everything at the right time, but then I
happened to look at my watch.
I've got five kids in tow.
And it's dinner One literallytowing on my back.
Yep.
But yeah, look, and it's dinnertime and I'm like, oh my gosh,
we're not going to make dinnerat the right time.
So I thought, hey, we need tospeed this up.
I thought this is where thistrail was, but we are taking a
lot longer than we need to.
(06:34):
So I make my own trail and youthought you had a shortcut.
Liz (06:45):
If you're in the woods and you try to make your own trail,
there's wisdom, and sticking onthe trail that's already made.
Ben (06:48):
This is deep people.
I didn't have enough wisdom yetto understand that, so I made
my own trail and we went througha lot of brush and this was the
missouri uh oh yeah wilderland,you know like yes, woods yes,
and so there were a lot ofcreatures where we went and so
we came home, got the shortcutdone and it's like the sun is
(07:12):
like setting, so he like walksin and I'm like okay, you're
here.
Liz (07:15):
I think we made like spaghetti because it was such a
busy day for me, so it wasn'tlike this like grandiose meal.
Maybe we ordered pizza, I don'tknow.
I don't really remember.
I feel like it was spaghetti,but anyway the kids were dirty
and I'm like we need to put themin the tub yeah, and they're
itching.
Ben (07:33):
Came home and we were all dirty like especially our lower
parts below the knees, so likeknees, ankles and it just looked
like we had dirt everywhere andit was funny because I was like
I don't remember getting into awhole lot of dirt and mud.
You know we stayed on the trail,except for that last little bit
.
And so what?
Your sister, I think, startedtaking them and washing them.
Liz (07:49):
Yeah, she put them in the shower.
I'm on phone calls.
It's a big day, it's a very bigday and we're doing all this
stuff and these little blackareas are not coming off.
Ben (08:01):
Yeah, yeah At all.
What we thought was dirtactually wasn't dirt.
Liz (08:05):
It was bugs.
Ben (08:07):
What kind of bugs?
Liz (08:07):
I don't know these little tiny.
Ben (08:09):
They were baby ticks.
Liz (08:10):
They were sent from hell.
That's what they were.
There were so many.
Ben (08:13):
It looked like dirt.
Liz (08:14):
It looked like we were just Hundreds, yeah, like hundreds
and hundreds.
Ben (08:19):
Hundreds on the kids, washing them.
They're not coming off.
Liz (08:22):
So now here I am, at the month end, like already stressed
out, with my business, like youknow, have a big goal.
We're wrapping up.
I remember it was September30th, which was the end of a
quarter going into anotherquarter, so it was like a whole
quarter deal anyway, and andlike the culmination of
everything we've been workingtowards and we're like these
things aren't coming off.
And then we started seeing moveyeah, that was freaky.
Ben (08:43):
They started moving.
We realized it wasn't dirt oh,you guys, we're not talking just
one, two, three four.
Liz (08:50):
We're talking hundreds five kids plus ben, yeah.
So then my sister and I arewith tweezers and we're trying
to pull these things off of ourkids.
I mean, we're googling, we'relike what is this stuff?
Yeah, and so, and I mean not topoo-poo you, but you're like,
oh, it's not a big deal.
I'm like, look at their legs.
I'm like, come here and look attheir legs, you're like, oh, oh
(09:11):
, and they were covered.
And then I'm like, trying towash their clothes later that
week, trying to wash the clothes, it's not coming out of their
socks, it's not coming out ofanything.
They're still living throughthe dryer which was on high and
hot.
So then this one funny parthappened and I said well, if
they have them, you've got tohave them.
You're like hairier legs.
(09:33):
I mean I think it's okay, Ishare this part.
But then you're like I feellike they're on my chest and so
I was like well, take off yourshirt.
So you take your shirt off andthey are embedded in the hair on
his chest and I'm like oh, mygosh.
So then I'm on your chest withtweezers and my sister looks
over, she goes I'm not touchingthat.
(09:55):
She said I'm not touching that.
Ben (09:57):
So yeah, yeah, learned a good lesson that day.
Liz (10:00):
We did learn a good lesson that day.
We did learn a good lesson thatday.
We say on the path we don'tturn and go through high brush
and the, the kids that were inthe front got hit the worst, and
the ones that were in the backand and the one on your back,
she didn't have as many I shouldsay because she was so high up
but, somehow she still had someno, those little things have a
big impact.
It was awful yeah so littlethings can have big impact and
(10:23):
so we're equating this tothoughts.
Ben (10:25):
That's right yeah thoughts and you got into this author and
, I guess, brain science person.
Liz (10:33):
Neuroscientist, neuroscientist she's amazing.
Carolyn Leaf, tell us about her, dr Caroline Leaf, she's from
South Africa.
She dresses super awesome.
She's not the kind of scientistthat you would think.
I mean, she's got her nailsdone and everything.
She's really brilliant.
She's a believer and she has anInstagram, a Facebook page.
(10:54):
She is on YouTube.
One time I was cleaning out hercloset and I was listening to
oh my gosh, it was about brainscience and now I can't even
remember what it is.
But it's quantum physics.
I listened to her one 20minutes four times to try to
(11:15):
understand quantum physics.
Why are you laughing?
Ben (11:18):
I can see that happening.
Liz (11:19):
Yes, and I was in the closet and I listened to it
again and again and again and Igot a little bit of it, but
she's brilliant.
She talks about your brain andshe has a book called who
Switched Off my Brain.
It's about left brain, rightbrain, but it's all about toxic
thoughts and what they havediscovered is that when
scientists are looking at yourbrain under a microscope and you
(11:41):
are thinking, your thoughtshave life and they continue on
in life and they grow.
So when you have a thought, itdoesn't just stop.
And what they said is that it'spretty fascinating.
She says when you think a happythought or a good thought, the
way that she equates it to, islike this beautiful, bright
green, like Kelly green youthink of, like spring,
(12:04):
everything's turning green, thatbeautiful bright color.
Now she's saying that's not thecolor, it is under the
microscope, but that's what itlooks like if we were to say
that.
And then, if you have anegative thought, it looks like
this dead branch, like thiswitch's branch that you would
imagine on a dead tree.
And she says everybody hasforests in their brain of green
(12:26):
and black.
And she says some people havemore black and some people have
more green and the good versusnegative, versus positive, and
she says that you can rewriteyour brain to have more green or
to have more positive thoughts.
Ben (12:40):
And what's that concept called?
Oh yeah, neuroplasticity, yes.
Liz (12:44):
Neuroplasticity and she's worked with people who have had
whole parts of their brains.
You grew up how your habits areand how you think, and what God
(13:12):
has always said in his word istrue, and science is just
catching up.
This isn't like something.
God knows what he's talkingabout in his word, especially
when it comes to Philippians 4,8, which I think we're going to
get into that scripture later.
It's one of my favorites in hisword, especially when it comes
to Philippians 4.8, which Ithink we're going to get into
that scripture later.
Ben (13:23):
It's one of my favorites.
Liz (13:25):
But you know that literally you can reprogram your brain to
think positively.
So anyway, she has all thisstuff.
That's out there.
I highly recommend her.
The book is really great.
She's a fantastic author, she'sa great speaker, she has a
beautiful accent and her clotheslook cool Like I'm.
Like the girl is checks all theboxes.
She checks all the boxes.
(13:45):
She's not your typicalscientist.
Ben (13:47):
So honing in on the negative stuff for just a second
, okay.
I think it's important torealize that sometimes that
negative thought process doesaffect our views and our
thoughts on God.
And so I read a book called theGod-Shaped Brain by Tim Jennings
(14:10):
and he talks about some commonmisconceptions or misrepresented
views of God and I thought thatwas really interesting and I
know I've thought these in myupbringing once or twice and had
to like kind of shake free ofthem.
But he talks about a few ofthem.
(14:31):
I'll go through them real quick.
The cosmic cop, so alwayswanting to catch us, so thinking
that God is like this you knowcosmic cop who's just waiting to
put you in jail or to catch youdoing something wrong.
Cosmic cop who's just waitingto put you in jail or to catch
you doing something wrong.
Another misconception is thedistant watchmaker, so like just
(14:55):
uninvolved, he's wound up theuniverse and he's letting it
kind of just go off to its owndevices and he's no longer
active or present in the day today.
And then there's this other,one another misconception that
we have of God or we think aboutGod it's the celestial vending
machine.
Wow so basically, god is SantaClaus, where we just get what we
want and we just equate him tothe commodity of getting things.
(15:22):
The genie in the bottle.
Yeah, the genie in the bottle,the vending machine, the vending
machine, the bottle.
Yeah, the genie in the bottle,the vending machine, essentially
the vending machine, yeah, andthen this one, this one, I think
, affected me the most, thislast one here, the angry judge.
So, primarily punitive orprimarily punishing.
Right.
That one, I think, is intense,because and Tim talks about this
(15:44):
in his book when you have fearof God, that is not just the
healthy fear, but like the fearof being blasted or the fear of
being like always scrutinized oralways punished.
That can lead to anxiety andanxiety can form stress and just
(16:04):
a stress response.
And if you stay in that stressresponse, we know that that's
terrible for your health.
Absolutely Not only mental, butphysical health as well.
Liz (16:12):
Yeah.
Ben (16:12):
So you literally can get sick because of your distorted
views on God, on the Lord, yeah,yes.
Yeah, so that's really powerful.
Going through that book wasvery helpful for me because
seeing God as a God primarily oflove is so freeing, because it
helps tear down those mentalimages, those false mental
(16:35):
images that you had in yourbrain and trying to rewire our
brains to think about Godthrough mostly love and the way
he describes himself in theBible, which is kind of where I
want to go next, right, and it'sso much better.
It's so much better Like what wetypically project or what we
get out of culture.
Right or maybe even what we'vegrown up with.
(16:55):
Right.
When we allow God to define whohe is by what he says he is in
the Bible.
I think we're just shocked andsurprised and also like
reaffirmed Well, and he'srelational.
Liz (17:07):
Intensely, intensely relational, intensely relational
.
Yes, yes, I know.
Ben (17:11):
And we've learned that even just recently.
Liz (17:17):
I was going to say I would have to say probably this last
year, if I were to say one wordover my walk with the Lord, this
last year would be relational.
Yeah, like he's so relational.
Ben (17:22):
He's so relational?
Yeah for sure, so let's jump init.
So this is, I think, a prettycommon way that we've heard God
described.
It's from Psalms, Psalms 103.8.
The Lord is compassionate andgracious, slow to anger and
abounding in love.
Liz (17:38):
I love that scripture.
It's one of my favoritescriptures.
There's a beautiful song outthere.
Ben (17:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's great.
I'm not going to sing it, butit's a great song.
So that's a popular verse.
But what's cool about thatverse is it actually references
something else in the Bible, andit's actually referencing
Exodus 34, 6 through 7, wherethe Lord is talking about
himself, right.
So God is saying this is who Iam and this is what I'm like,
(18:03):
and that's super importantbecause we allow other
influences to kind of definewhat we think and what we feel
about who the Lord is.
But if we refocus our efforts onletting God define himself
through his own language andeven his own name, that can be
powerful, because then you kindof strip away what you've built
(18:27):
up God to be in your head andyou're like, wait a minute,
let's make sure that we'revalidating what I'm thinking
with what God is saying in thescriptures.
Liz (18:35):
And what happened in Exodus ?
Where is this happening then?
Ben (18:37):
So this is happening with Moses, and there's this fun word
that I like to say he lovesthis word.
Liz (18:47):
This is what I'm gearing up to.
I'm like, here it comes.
Ben (18:49):
Get ready the Tetragrammaton.
Liz (18:53):
Is that what was in the Back to the Future?
What was that thing called theFlex Capacitor?
Ben (19:02):
Not quite the Flex Capacitor Not quite.
It kind of sounds like itshould be.
Liz (19:06):
Well, hey, I'm already throwing out all my old school
stuff.
Cool Okay.
Ben (19:14):
So the Tetragrammatron oh my gosh Is a Greek word to
describe.
Liz (19:18):
It's Greek.
Yes, wow, it's all Greek to mepeople.
Ben (19:22):
It's a Greek word, wow, it's a Greek word to describe
the four the Hebrew concept ofwho God says he is which is the
I am yeah.
Okay, so that's Yahweh and youknow that comes.
So basically, we we actuallydon't really know, I think, the
(19:43):
original Hebrew how to pronounceall that was in there, cause
there's this way that the HebrewBible was written uh ancient
Hebrew, where you didn't have umsome punctuation.
You didn't have somepunctuation.
You didn't have vowels.
Right.
Things were just abbreviated forbrevity's sake so that we could
get it done quickly, because itwas just basically copy.
Liz (20:02):
Well, and they say also when you say Yahweh, it sounds
like breath.
Ben (20:05):
So even when we're breathing.
Liz (20:08):
We're saying his name, but anyway, that's a whole, nother
deep dive.
That is yeah, stay on topic.
Stay on topic.
Ben (20:13):
No, no, this is great.
There's so much to this.
You can spend, literally, youknow, days and days just going
through all of it.
It's pretty cool.
Liz (20:25):
But the first time we see the tetragrammatron, the flex
capacitor.
Ben (20:26):
I like that word Is in.
I'm sorry, the first time thatGod says it and likens it to
himself is in Exodus 3, 14.
So this is the burning bushencounter that Moses has Right.
Right.
And Moses is like hey, who do Isay, sent me.
Basically asking God.
Liz (20:44):
When he's going to go back.
Yeah, yeah, go back to theIsraelites.
Ben (20:54):
Like who do?
I say you know, sent me.
And then the.
Lord says I am who I am.
Say this to the people ofIsrael I am has sent me to you,
yep.
So this is the introductionthat God gives for Moses to
basically go and say to theHebrew people so it's the first
(21:15):
time that we see God talkingabout himself and giving himself
a name, and this is superimportant.
Right?
The I am.
There's so much to unpack there.
Right, there can be the conceptof faithfulness or fidelity.
The I am, I am who I am.
But I also think at some levelit's kind of an invitation into
the mystery of God.
Like I am.
Oh yeah.
Like what does that cause you tothink about?
(21:36):
When someone says I am, youautomatically think you is, you
are, but what are you?
like you are who you are.
I am who I am.
What is that?
I think that kind of begins aline of questioning, a line of
intrigue and mystery into whoGod is.
A line of intrigue and mysteryinto who God is.
And in Exodus 34, 6 through 7,again we see the Tetragrammatron
(22:02):
used there and God comes beforeMoses and explains his
character and it's so cool, hesays third and fourth
(22:35):
generations.
So this is super important.
This is like one of the mostquoted passages of the Bible in
the Bible.
So it's central to who God isand I want to break that down
very quickly.
I know we're kind of campingout here and Liz is giving me
the long look.
Liz (22:46):
No, I looked away.
I looked away.
Ben (22:51):
But I'll make it quick.
So we see a few characterdescriptions in this verse,
right, and it's where we get theconcept of who God is from a
character standpoint.
Liz (23:04):
Which is why do we want this?
Ben (23:05):
We want this because this is central to how we relate to
God.
If we're made in God's image,we need to understand who God is
from a character perspective,because I honestly think when
we're made in his image, he'snot talking about necessarily a
physical form, or even afunctional form.
(23:25):
I think what he's talking aboutis a character.
Yeah, and when we can reflectGod's character by doing the
same things that he does, bybeing the same way that he is, I
think that's when we are backto our original design and
that's when we feel the mostalive is when we understand his
(23:46):
character and we live out thatcharacter.
Right.
He's created us to be that.
Liz (23:51):
Right.
Ben (23:52):
In that image.
Liz (23:52):
And it's all about thoughts .
A lot of it is about thoughts.
Ben (23:56):
I think it starts with thoughts right.
It starts with the knowledge ofGod and then it moves to the
love of God and being able tofully love him and love others,
and a lot of how we do that andhow we relate to that is what we
think about God and weunderstand his character, and so
he's compassionate, he'sgracious, he's slow to anger,
(24:18):
he's abounding in chesed, whichis loyal love, covenant,
faithfulness.
Liz (24:22):
Rich in love.
Ben (24:23):
So it's that I am who I am.
I'm going to be who I'm goingto be that faithful peace of God
.
Liz (24:29):
You just said one of your favorite words and nobody caught
it.
Hasid, you say this word a lotI do, you do.
Ben (24:38):
Yeah, well, yeah, especially with our
conversations.
I really love that, becauseit's kind of a difficult thing
to translate in English.
Liz (24:46):
Here it comes people.
Get ready, yeah, okay go ahead,ben, talk about hasid.
Ben (24:50):
But it's, yeah, it's the concept of faithful love.
It's not just love, but it'slove that endures.
It's a covenant love, it's aattachment love.
There's a book out there thatI'm reading that kind of goes
(25:14):
into that concept.
It's called Renovated and kindof expands upon the work of
Dallas Jenkins.
Yeah, and it's just yeah, it'sgreat.
It really dives deep into thisconcept of attachment love,
which is where this has saidkind of comes into the action.
Part of it, like how we attachand how we feel love through the
(25:35):
concept of chesed.
Liz (25:36):
It's true, it's good, it's really good, it's good.
Ben (25:39):
The last thing I want to mention real quick on this
character breakdown of God isthere is a tension between
justice and forgiveness.
Right.
Right, right, and we see it, andreally I believe it's read to
be poetic in the sense wheremaintaining love to thousands
(26:01):
means thousands of generationsRight.
And it follows up at the end bysaying that the guilty will
receive that generationaljustice, even to the third and
fourth generation.
So there is this concept of,you know, god having justice
Right.
But what's better than hisjustice is his mercy and his
(26:22):
love.
And that flows to thousands ofgenerations, whereas the justice
is to the third and fourth.
It's good, huge distinction,huge, very important.
Liz (26:31):
Huge, you did good.
Yeah, thank you for breakingthat down, thanks.
Ben (26:35):
Well, hopefully I didn't spend too much time on it.
Liz (26:36):
You did amazing.
I think everybody got theconcept.
Ben (26:39):
Okay, fantastic.
So what does this mean for?
Like a real life view of God,like how does this relate?
Like practical.
Like practical stuff and I thinkthere's a few stories.
One's a biblical story that youmentioned that I thought was
really cool.
The other one is we knewsomeone from our youth and he
was a leader.
He was a youth leader and hehad this motivational poster up
(27:03):
on his wall.
Basically, it said others may,you may not, and it always
struck me as odd.
I always wondered like, wow, ofall the motivational sayings
you know that maybe you couldput from from the Lord or
whatever, and it definitely waslike it's supposed to be from
God, like this is what you know.
This is what motivated thisperson, right?
(27:23):
It just struck me as odd.
It's like not God's love or notthat he, you know.
Just for some reason this was amotivational part of this
person's spiritual formation.
And it seemed punitive.
It seemed like this was ajudgmental thing, or?
(27:45):
An anger thing, or like a maybenot anger, but just a.
Liz (27:49):
Yeah, chastisement.
Yeah, it wasn't leading in love.
Ben (27:53):
And I understand the part about discipline.
Right but discipline comesbecause of love.
Right.
And so it was just weird.
It always struck me as odd tosee this up on the wall and
think that that's motivatingsomeone to go deeper into God or
to love God more because of thethings you can't do.
It just seemed backwards to meRight.
Right, right right.
Yeah, it seemed like wait aminute, we shouldn't focus on,
(28:15):
like what we can't do.
We should focus on what we cando and what God gives us, you
know, to just feel his love.
Like that ought to be more ofthe motivating factor and
because I know that that shapedhis thoughts.
Liz (28:28):
Oh, and his personality or his everything?
Yes, yeah, yeah.
His personality or hiseverything?
Yes, yeah yeah.
Ben (28:33):
It was just you could tell, like that concept of well,
others may, but you may not.
No it's.
You can't do that.
You know it's restrictive, it'sit's negative.
Liz (28:45):
And there was that dimension to it.
Well, and there's boundaries.
The Lord has boundaries andthings.
Sure, but it was your view hisview yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then another example isWait, I want to say something
that our friend this is kind ofthe opposite she had by her
kitchen sink for years.
Jesus loves you, but I'm hisfavorite.
Yeah, I think that's amazing,that's cool.
Ben (29:07):
That's a healthy view.
That is a healthy view.
Liz (29:09):
Because you're like I'm his favorite.
Yeah, Well, we're all hisfavorite, Right, we're all his
favorite.
But it's like Jesus loves you,but I'm his favorite, and so
when you have that view, it'slike I'm coming into the arms of
a happy papa and I think alsojust, I know we're going to get
into more of this, but there area lot of people who did not
have great father figures intheir life.
(29:29):
I know I didn't, and so the Lordhas had to be my father and,
truthfully, being in marriage,I've learned a lot about the
father's love and us raisingkids and watching you be a
father, and there's been otherexamples in my life that the
Lord brought, even when I wasyoung, to show me that and so to
(29:53):
say Jesus loves you, but I'mhis favorite.
For some people listening tothat, you're just like I don't
even know how to wrap my mindaround it.
Like how can I, even you knowcause?
You may be, others may, but youmay not like?
Ben (30:05):
you're like.
I feel like he's going to hit.
Liz (30:07):
He's that cop that he's about to take you to jail.
I'm going to jail, I know it,instead of that loving father
that he is yeah, it's soimportant because that's where a
lot of our identity comes fromright.
Ben (30:20):
It's our connections.
It's who we love, and it's likewho you love tends to become
your people right.
And so a lot of our identitycomes from that train of thought
.
It's the people you love.
And then seeing yourself as agroup and then taking on that
(30:41):
group identity and internalizingit and realizing like this is
who we are.
This is who I am.
So it's important, like it'sreally important, that we
understand our thoughts aboutthe Lord, especially if we say
we're his.
Right.
You know that shapes then theother people that you connect to
.
So, if you think of God asangry and you think of God as
punitive, then you might startconnecting with other people who
(31:02):
have that same-.
Liz (31:03):
Absolutely.
Ben (31:05):
Viewpoint yeah, viewpoint.
Liz (31:06):
And they're living through that Right right.
Ben (31:09):
And then you start connecting and it's like you got
to be careful.
You got to be careful that youhave the right view of God, that
you take God for who he says heis Right, as loving and
compassionate.
Slow to anger abounding in hassaid and maintaining love to
thousands of generations.
Right.
But by no means clearing theguilty.
So again, we have to have itall in that right perspective,
(31:31):
but we know that God is mostlyabout love and forgiveness.
Yes, he is.
And so if we try to bring anyother distorted view, it can
really distort our entireidentity.
Right, but tell us about thisother real life example that
happened in the scriptures withthe spies.
Liz (31:52):
Oh, the spies.
Okay, I was like, is thisanother story?
Ben (31:55):
I'm like.
Liz (31:55):
I don't remember another story, oh yeah.
So when the 12 spies went intoIsrael or went into the Cana,
into the promised land, and theycame back with a report, 10 had
a bad report, right, and twohad the good report, which were
Joshua and Caleb, who, by theway, were the ones that were
able to go into the landeventually.
And, by the way, were the onesthat were able to go into the
(32:16):
land eventually, and this causedthe children of Israel to go
through the desert for 40 yearsand I have been in that desert
and it is not pretty.
Okay, did you ride a camel orsomething?
Yeah, I did.
I was on a camel for three days.
I went on a camel trip.
It was awesome.
That sounds awesome.
His name was Gideon.
That was the name of my camel.
He actually saved my life.
That's a whole nother storyWe'll have to share in another
episode.
But he did.
I almost fell off the cliff andhe's, he saved my life.
(32:39):
That's just another story.
Okay, but when, um, thosechildren or the, the spies I
shouldn't say children when theycame back, the 10 that had the
negative view, they like, werein fear and there were giants in
the land.
Sure, there were giants,they're probably nephilim.
There were giants in the land.
Sure, there were giants,they're probably Nephilim there
were giants in the land.
Okay, and then.
But the two that came back andhad the positive report they
(33:01):
knew I am was with them theythey're like, we can do this
because they knew the character.
They knew the character of Godand they knew that he was for
them.
And so it really I mean becauseof the views it forced him to
go in the desert for 40 years.
An entire group of people.
Ben (33:19):
Yeah, crazy.
That is crazy when you thinkabout that.
Liz (33:22):
That was all about thoughts .
Ben (33:24):
Yeah, thoughts, and not knowing the character of God and
then ultimately not havingfaith that God will do what he
says he's going to do.
Liz (33:32):
Which is scary, and we understand that.
Yeah, we've been faced withthings in our years of marriage.
Ben (33:37):
Right.
Liz (33:37):
That it's like okay, lord, we're doing this in faith.
Yeah, how is this going to work?
Ben (33:42):
Yeah, it kind of also reminds me about Jonah.
Oh yeah, and one of themotivating factors for Jonah not
going to Nineveh was the factthat he knew God was merciful.
Right.
And he didn't want to see Godhave mercy on his enemies.
Crazy, that's wild to me.
Liz (34:01):
It should be wild.
It should be wild.
Ben (34:03):
It's not God who's saying hey, you know, I want these
people to just be wiped off themap.
It's Jonah who was like wait aminute, these are Assyrians,
Right.
Like these are the people,people that-.
Liz (34:19):
Well, and they were really bad, you and I over the summer
we went to the British Museum inLondon, yeah, sennacherib, and
we got to see his stuff.
And I mean, if you read whatthey did to Israel, and this was
a generation before Jonah- hewas bitter.
I mean they did terribleatrocities to the Jews.
It's terrible.
Ben (34:36):
This is crazy because this is like an Old Testament example
of like love your enemies.
Right.
Right, like God's the same.
And then, jesus, we read aboutthe Beatitudes and loving our
enemies and the rain, you know,falling on the just and the
unjust.
And then here you have thisexample of like God calling
Jonah to, to call Nineveh torepentance, but because God
(35:00):
wants to redeem this people heloves everybody, yeah, and.
Jonah's like oh no, thank you,they're my enemies.
Liz (35:07):
Jumps on a boat and goes the wrong way, right, right,
well, and I'm also just thinkingto when David, the people, when
he shouldn't have counted thepeople.
And then it was here comes thejudgment or what's going to
happen.
Ben (35:19):
Yeah.
Liz (35:20):
And David made the choice and he said I would rather you
judge me.
Ben (35:24):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, he gave him the option.
He gave him the options.
Because he knew that God wouldbe merciful.
And he did come Right.
You know, be merciful and hedid come right.
Liz (35:35):
You know, there was judgment and god is a god of
judgment we need to rememberthis as well, like this is true
part of his character.
He mentions his character rightum, but I think it's knowing
jesus loves you.
But I'm his favorite.
Ben (35:47):
I like that yeah, I like that.
It's, that it's thatperspective.
It's that perspective so whatcan we take away from?
this.
I mean there's a lot, there's alot of practicals.
Let's get into practicals.
Let's jump to the practicals Allright.
So this book, Renovation of theHeart, by Dallas Willard, talks
about a lot of practical stepsfor thought transformation.
So number one daily meditationon scripture.
(36:10):
Right, we have to have theknowledge of God to understand
the character of God.
Yes.
So just like God revealedhimself in Exodus and revealed
himself to Moses and talks aboutbasically the I am the, I am a
God merciful, and he just goesdown the line.
He gives his characterattributes.
(36:31):
Like if we don't have ameditation on the character of
God on a regular basis, then wecan start to allow those
thoughts to kind of creep backin and those distorted views or
even what culture says, and youknow, what's screaming the
loudest?
Liz (36:47):
Yeah, what's screaming the loudest?
What's screaming the loudest?
Ben (36:48):
So we've got to make sure that we give, I believe, daily
meditation on the scriptures sothat we can have the knowledge
of God and thus the character ofGod.
Liz (36:56):
And I just want to say, too , that we know that there's a
wide range of people who listento our podcast.
Ben (37:03):
Yeah.
Liz (37:04):
And no matter where you are , no matter what season you're
in, just one scripture justmeditating on that and thinking
about that throughout the day.
So much can be unpacked in it,because his word is living and
it's alive.
Ben (37:18):
Yes.
Liz (37:19):
And I'm thinking about the seasons when I had lots of
little ones.
I mean, we had three in diaperstwice, three in diapers two
different times.
So that's a lot of diapers in aday.
And we were always pottytraining and there was always so
many things going on and I wasof course always pregnant, which
we've talked about that a lotbut even in those years which
(37:41):
are a blur, but even thoseblurry years in the midst of it
and I didn't do it perfectly,but it was like the Lord's grace
was there because of hischaracter.
And it was just even a simplesong.
Sometimes that.
I would wake up in the morningand it would be a little song in
my heart and I would kind ofjust sing that song throughout
the day and then it would be mybread.
It would be life-giving to me.
(38:03):
It would be the meditation itmay be a VeggieTales song that
the kids would be listening to,you know or even when we were
teaching our kids first timeobedience in that song.
Slow obedience is no obediencelike that was convicting for me,
like you know.
But remembering that it's notthis like he's coming down hard
(38:24):
on me, but it's because I wantto listen and obey yeah because,
he loves me and I want to obeyhis word so like, so, so much.
no matter where you are, maybeyou're in a season where your
kids are playing a lot of sportsright now and it's just like
you know, or maybe you're anempty nester and you have you're
, you're retired and you havelike ample amount of time.
(38:44):
It's that it's all thedifferent seasons, but it's
making a priority.
Ben (38:49):
Sure, it's the first fruits concept.
It's right Giving the best ofyour day to the Lord, I think.
For me that means the mornings.
Liz (38:58):
And for some people it's not the morning Sure.
Ben (39:00):
Sometimes it's the evenings .
Liz (39:01):
It's the evenings and we were just talking to our kids
about this, because we're reallytrying to help them grow in
their devotion with Jesus, andso we talked about what are
practically what all thosethings look like and going out
and taking a walk yeah,practically what all those
things look like and you knowgoing out and taking a walk.
Yeah, one of the kids said Ireally meet with God in the
shower.
I said you're my kid.
I don't know why, but he justshows up in the shower.
Ben (39:20):
It happens to me sometimes.
Yeah, it's like.
Liz (39:21):
I think it's because nobody else is around me, right?
I can finally have quiet.
You know, and it's just it's.
I'll have the Bible app and Ihave it playing a lot of times
too, but anyway it's good yeahso it's practical.
Ben (39:33):
Yeah, yeah.
So daily meditation super bigright, super important.
Another thing this is reallyinteresting that came from this
book Renovation of the Heartjournaling revelations.
Oh yes.
So, as God reveals hischaracter to you, writing that
down, keeping a journal of that.
Liz (39:49):
Because you think you're going to remember it, but you
don't.
Ben (39:52):
Yeah, yeah, we've both kept journals and we've got a friend
who does amazing with thesejournals.
Liz (39:57):
Oh my gosh, she has boxes and boxes and boxes and boxes of
journals.
Ben (40:01):
We're not quite that level.
She's a rock star, yeah yeah,and this is through having lots
of kids too.
Liz (40:08):
There's been some really cool things that have affected
us, even from her journalingyeah, from her journaling, yeah,
dreams andaling, yeah, and shegoes back and she finds them.
Ben (40:12):
Oh yeah, I'm like whoa yeah , we're, we're more of, well,
I'm more of the once or twice amonth kind of journaling, but
you're getting it in there, I'mgetting it in there.
Yeah, yeah, trying to get it inthere, and then you do have one
for the kids like we throughtheir, their years.
Liz (40:25):
We'll pick it up and write.
You know, kind of right inthere and so we're going to hand
it to them when they leave thenest.
Ben (40:30):
Yeah, yeah, because I think journaling your thoughts and
your appreciations.
Liz (40:36):
And your revelations, and your revelations is super
important.
What is he whispering to you?
Ben (40:39):
Exactly, especially about his character, because, again,
we're made in that image.
We have to reflect it.
Liz (40:43):
Okay, so I have one real quick that I'm just going to
share, okay.
So when COVID came andeverything was shutting down and
the kids, so when it allhappened was during the kids'
spring break this is back whenthey were in school and it was
during their spring break and sothen we were not going back to
school.
The whole world didn't knowwhat was going on and the email
(41:05):
went out and said we're justgonna take the week off and then
we'll figure it out.
Well then, after the one weekso now the kids have been out of
school for two weeks come tothe school and pick up your
homework packets for the nexttwo or three weeks I forget what
it was.
So every teacher had to go in,they had to put everything
together and us, as parents, hadto go it was very organized and
pick up the packets for all thekids.
(41:25):
And I mean we were kind offearful because we didn't know
what was going to go on in theworld.
As I'm driving into the schooland I have a song that's going
through my heart this is a lotof times, how the Lord will
speak to me is like little songs, and the song was don't you
worry about a thing, don't youworry about a thing, mama.
(41:47):
And as I'm turning into school.
I was like wait a second, theLord is speaking to me, he's
speaking to me, don't you worryabout a thing, do not fear, do
not fear.
And he even said mama.
And I'm like, oh, and so itjust changed my perspective.
I mean, granted, we had lotsmore ahead of us that we didn't
(42:08):
know, but it was like don'tagree with fear, don't you worry
about a thing.
You keep your eyes on me and Iknow people walk through all
kinds of stuff, and I'm notdiminishing the hardships that
people faced I am not, but itwas just that little sweet as I
like to say kiss from heaven.
Don't you worry about a thing,don't you worry about a thing,
(42:28):
mama.
I'm like, oh my gosh.
And I held on to that formonths months.
Ben (42:34):
It's kind of funny because one of the most common things
that the Lord or angels speak topeople when there's that
encounter is do not be afraid.
Liz (42:42):
Do not be afraid.
Well, because they're angels,hello.
I mean, if I had an angel showup in front of me, I think I
would pass out, I think I wouldhide, I think so too, but it's
just, I mean that's cool, that'slike a-.
Do not be afraid, you aremassive yeah.
Ben (42:56):
And that goes, I think, back to our thoughts, right,
yeah.
Right the character.
That anxiety, that fearsometimes is rooted in
misconstrued thoughts, so it canhave a massive impact, which,
that's the next point, iscatching and correcting
distorted thoughts.
Right, so we talked about twoso far daily meditation,
(43:17):
journaling, revelations of God'scharacter, and then catching
and correcting distortedthoughts.
Liz (43:21):
I love this one Taking your thoughts captive is really what
?
Ben (43:23):
that is, but again specifically as it applies to
the character of God, becausethat's so central to how we form
our identity.
Liz (43:32):
So I am all over this one about taking your thoughts
captive, because the battlefieldof the mind, I think there's a
book out there by Joyce Meyers.
Okay, so many good books, somany good books and so much good
stuff.
And it's true, it's true, it'strue, it's true.
Do you want to have more blackforests in your brain, or do you
want to have more green forests?
And so you, if the thoughtskeep on going.
(43:53):
That's what science tells usthat when you're thinking a
thought, they see that it justkeeps growing and growing.
That's what science tells usthat when you're thinking a
thought, they see that it justkeeps growing and growing and
growing.
You have to stop that thought.
And the Bible says to take yourthoughts captive, and so
something that I would teachthose that were on my team,
because we were in sales.
I mean there's a lot ofthoughts.
I mean especially when you'relike I want to achieve and hit
(44:13):
these goals and hit these marks,no matter where you are right.
But when I was working with myteam, we literally would say
cancel, cancel, cancel, like youknow, cancel cancel cancel
culture Can't Lord.
Not that.
Sorry, that was wrong.
I love you, that is not what Iwas talking about.
But you have to go cancel,cancel, cancel, and I would snap
my fingers, cancel, cancel,cancel.
(44:34):
And what happens is is like youlike, you're like nope, I'm
going to take that thoughtcaptive.
It is not healthy, it is notgoing to produce good fruit in
my life I am not going to makeagreement with that and I'm
casting it down.
You were being a lumberjack.
I thought jack.
I thought jack.
Oh, that's funny, that's good.
We should put that on a t-shirtor a hat.
Be a thought jack, so thatwould.
(44:55):
That would strike up a reallygood conversation, and you
should do like the, that youknow, take every thought,
captive scripture, orphilippians 4, 8, okay, anyway,
we're going on, okay.
So, but in the process too.
I know and I'm speaking from awoman that a lot of times we get
in our head and sometimes yourhead is a dangerous neighborhood
and you do not need to go inthere by yourself of those,
(45:15):
those crazy black trees you'retalking about, and you do not
need to go in there by yourself,especially if it's full of
those crazy black trees you weretalking about.
Yeah, no, you do not need it.
So we have the help of the Lord, we have the help of the Holy
Spirit to help us, guide usright.
How do we get good thoughts?
By reading his word byrewriting our brains, by
thinking correctly, and I knowfor me a lot of times where I
(45:36):
find myself in a spiral of badthoughts can be in the shower.
It can be when I'm alone in thecar, and it's like you do not
want to go down that spiralbecause, before you know it, you
have gotten mad at five or sixdifferent people.
You have worked out a scenariothat is not even true.
Ben (45:54):
Right.
Liz (45:54):
And you're there at the other end and it's like you're
exhausted.
Ben (45:58):
And I think there's a key distinction here, Like we're not
saying stuff your emotions,stuff your feelings don't
process them.
What we're saying I think whatyou're saying specifically is
don't feed that negativefeedback cycle where you just
ruminate on the bad.
Look at the good, yeah, processwhat you're going through.
Obviously, you have to get thatout.
(46:19):
You can't stuff it.
Liz (46:20):
Do that through prayer, do it through journaling.
If you need a counselor, get acounselor.
Go to your pastor, go to yourleader.
Talk to your spouse.
Ben (46:27):
Yes.
Liz (46:27):
Unless your spouse is the problem, just kidding.
Ben (46:29):
Oh boy.
Liz (46:31):
We should do an episode on that.
But no, in all seriousness, getthe help that you need Right.
Get some right thinking.
Ben (46:39):
Right, it's both and.
It's a both and.
Liz (46:41):
Yeah, but you can prevent forest fires.
Ben (46:45):
Smokey the bear.
Liz (46:45):
Smokey the bear.
You can prevent it and you knowwhat.
And I just want to say toanybody who struggles in this
area you really can.
It is training.
Ben (46:53):
Yes.
It's forming the habit well,just like you know, just like
anybody who is doing any kind ofathletic achievement, right,
you can't just jump in and run amarathon.
No, you have to take thoselittle steps and that little
training you like couch to 5k ohgosh, we, we, we gotta save
that for another time.
Liz (47:11):
That's a good one now okay so that's great.
Ben (47:15):
I feel feel like you know tons of practical examples there
.
Another good book is theAnxiety Reset.
Oh yeah, and we reduce anxietywhen we trust God's goodness
right.
That's one takeaway from thatbook Better stress management
when that happens.
Improved emotional regulationyes, there's so much about
trusting God's goodness, hischaracter, yeah, and a lot of
(47:37):
great practical knowledge comesfrom anxiety research and it's a
very good book to start with.
Yeah, and specifically tomental health.
Liz (47:43):
For mental health I think it's really really good,
especially if you're feelinganxiety.
I also want to say put yourphone down get off social media,
and it's not just because ofwhat people's lives are looking
at.
That's not what I'm talkingabout.
I'm talking about the scienceand your brain, with you
scrolling and looking at ascreen that, that
is giving you, because what'shappening is your endorphins and
(48:04):
your dopamine hits and that'sactually causing anxiety.
And so put your phone down,limit yourself throughout the
day or all day, don't turnscreens off at a certain time or
time block.
We really need to do an episodeon this.
Ben (48:18):
We're going to.
Liz (48:19):
Okay, we've teased it too many times, yeah, but put your
phone down and get outside, godraw, go journal and help that
anxiety come down.
Ben (48:27):
But anyway no that's great, that's beautiful.
One other book real quick andthis is the impact on
relationships, so kind of.
We already talked about thespiritual stuff.
We talked about mental health.
Right.
This book is you Are what youLove.
Oh yeah, and it's the impact onrelationships, kind of with
what we're talking about hereHabits too.
Yep.
And so how you view God affectshow you parent Right.
(48:50):
It affects how you love yourspouse.
Liz (48:53):
Yep Friendships, community Friendships, even community.
Ben (49:01):
Yeah, like there's so much that those thoughts really
impact because it's identity,yes, right, yeah.
We're made in the image of God.
We're made to reflect hischaracter.
When we don't, it changes thenature of who we are.
Right.
Right, and so we have to getback to knowing God, knowing who
he is, what he's like, andthinking on those things and
participating in the samecharacter attributes that he has
and you can trust him.
Liz (49:22):
Yeah, 100% you can trust him, and I know some people out
there are just feeling hurt.
Ben (49:26):
Yeah.
Liz (49:27):
They're feeling like.
I'm just thinking of aconversation I had a couple of
weeks with a young lady and shewas just having a really hard
time trusting the Lord andbecause she felt hurt and we got
to the core of it and it waslike, okay, what are the steps
that we're going to do to foryou to see that he's not
standing there with a broom andabout to knock you over the head
(49:50):
?
Because, he's disappointed inyou.
Ben (49:51):
Right, right.
Liz (49:53):
He loves you.
Ben (49:54):
Yeah.
Liz (49:54):
You're human.
Ben (49:56):
Get some of that has said.
Liz (49:57):
That's has said yeah and I human Get some of that has said
that has said yeah.
And I asked her.
I said you know where are youreading in the scriptures?
Ben (50:04):
right now, yeah, yeah.
Liz (50:05):
Where are you?
You know, because he'sbeautiful.
Ben (50:08):
Yes.
Liz (50:09):
He's friendly.
Ben (50:10):
Yeah.
Liz (50:11):
And he likes you.
He doesn't just tolerate you,he likes you.
Not only that, he likes yourenemies too.
He does, which is really hard.
Well, and I'm just thinking ofa scripture that's in Song of
Solomon.
When I got this and it was likeoh my gosh and the scriptures.
You know he's talking to theshulmite, but he says, with one
(50:32):
glance of your eyes, I am.
I'm ravished and you know it'svery poetic language and you
know I was always taught don'tread that until you're married.
You know, that's what I wastaught, Well.
Ben (50:48):
Song of Solomon.
And then when I read it, I waslike huh, what the heck?
Liz (50:50):
Pomegranates and under a tree and then these people that
I was reading it with were likehilarious about it.
I'm thinking you guys, this isweird, Like love language,
whatever, Anyway.
But I mean, if you turn to meand start saying that my neck is
like the tower of I anyway, Ilove you.
Don't say that to me so, butwith one glance of your eye.
(51:13):
So this is to us, this is toyou, with you just making a
glance, like you guys, even usjust talking about this.
You listening to this on thispodcast.
He is so happy, like it says,his heart is ravished, which,
when you read that it's talkedabout, he twirls and he dances
like he's cheering us on, and Ialways get this picture of us as
(51:34):
toddlers learning to walk.
We we've watched six of ourkids take their first steps.
We- were so blessed to be thereand we have some on video and
the kids watch those over andover again and we're all
cheering them on.
Ben (51:45):
That is literally what the Lord is doing he's looking at us
as we're toddling through life.
Liz (51:51):
And yes, there's a maturing .
Yes, we put away childishthings, yes, but at the core of
it, like he's, happy.
Ben (51:59):
Yeah, the core of it, he's love.
Liz (52:01):
He's love.
Ben (52:02):
Yeah.
Liz (52:02):
He's love and he's cheering us on.
So when I was speaking withthis young lady, I'm like he
like, really likes you.
He isn't tolerating you because, she had the wrong view.
Right Her thoughts were offbecause she hadn't thought the
right thoughts.
And there's a whole thing andall that, but he's cheering us
on and just the glance.
Ben (52:22):
just think about it just a glance.
Liz (52:23):
I just glance at you, he's loving that.
He is loving that.
I love that.
I love that.
Give us more.
Let's go, oh man it's so good.
Ben (52:30):
There's so much we can say, but let's just jump to a couple
scripture takeaways.
Right, I'll hit the first one.
Maybe you can hit the secondone, cause I know you like that.
That's your one of yourfavorite verses.
Liz (52:41):
Oh, I get to say my favorite scripture.
Ben (52:43):
That's right.
So second Corinthians 10, five,we demolish arguments and every
pretension that sets itself upagainst the knowledge of God,
and we take captive everythought to make it obedient to
Christ.
So again, it's that knowledgepiece right.
Yeah, the knowledge of God andreally the mind of Christ.
Yeah, you know, and so like themind of Christ.
(53:03):
I feel like you can describethat as the character of Christ,
the character of God Like.
What is he thinking about?
What makes him tick right?
Yeah.
It's that I am who I am.
It's that invitation into themystery of God and to finding
out about who he is, and I feellike that mystery never fully
resolves.
Right.
Like we know a lot because alot's been given to us through
(53:29):
the scriptures, but thescriptures is just a way to get
to the personality of God right.
We can't just limit ourrelationship with the Bible.
It has to get us to the pointwhere we have a relationship
with our creator.
Liz (53:43):
Yeah, Fully God and fully man yeah, that's what scriptures
say.
Ben (53:47):
And discovering him through the scripture, but then
cultivating that relationship,that talking, if you think about
it, scripture is all Godbreathed, but it's literally him
having dialogue with otherpeople.
Right, we can have that samething Right, right, right, right
.
Liz (54:03):
No, it's so good.
And then I also like that word.
Picture that you gave us athought, Jack, yeah thought Jack
.
Taking captive every thoughtand making it obedience to
Christ.
So cancel, cancel, cancel.
Ben (54:16):
That's right.
Liz (54:17):
Yeah, don't get in that spiral.
Stop, stop, stop.
And then I love Philippiansfour, eight, and I'm so glad you
get to Tim.
Let me share the scripture.
But finally, brethren, whateveris true, whatever is honorable,
whatever is just, whatever ispure, whatever is lovely,
whatever is any excellence, ifthere is anything worthy of
(54:37):
praise, think about these things, and I those are green forest
thoughts.
Right, green forest thoughts.
Ben (54:45):
Yeah.
Liz (54:45):
You know, and it doesn't mean that you're Pollyanna- no.
Okay, it doesn't mean thatyou're Pollyanna.
Ben (54:50):
The Psalms is not Pollyanna .
No, there's a lot of lament, ohyeah.
Liz (55:02):
It's and we have, and you guys, we have seasons, we have
ups and downs.
We are going up the hill, downthe hill, we're coming out of a
storm, in the midst of the storm, or going into a storm.
There is life, life, life, life, life.
But in the seasons of life, it'spart of his character to think
on these things and think histhoughts and think his ways, and
I just think so many times formyself when I am in the midst of
a situation, we're goingthrough something, we're looking
(55:24):
at something I'm like, okay, Igot to go spend time with the
Lord and hear what he has to sayLike I got to get anchored in
him.
It's God thoughts.
It's like maybe a scripture,maybe it's just one word, maybe
he gives me a picture, maybethere's a movie and he speaks to
me through the movie.
There's so many.
(55:44):
He's huge, he's a creator, hecreated all of it and it's
beautiful.
This thing that we get to do asbelievers and Jesus is so fun.
It's so fun.
Ben (55:56):
It's almost like we're created to be in relation, oh
Lord.
Liz (56:02):
Yes, ben yes, ben yes, captain obvious.
Ben (56:05):
Anything else?
Do you have anything elsebefore we?
Liz (56:07):
Okay, so we're going to go ahead and wrap this up, so thank
you for being a part of our OneBlessed Mess today.
Don't forget to subscribe, toshare, to like to heart.
However, you're listening tothis.
We love comments.
We love your messages, um, ifyou go to our website, um, our
one blessed messcom, youthere'sa contact form there.
You can contact us through that, um, and then also to follow us
(56:31):
on instagram, follow us onfacebook um share our
information, especially if youthink that there's somebody out
there that would enjoy listeningto our podcast.
We really have the heart andthe desire to serve the body and
really just welcome you intoour conversation.
Ben (56:47):
Yeah, we'd like to hear from you what you would like to
know about or to hear us talkabout, or anything like that.
So what do?
Liz (56:54):
you want to hear us talk about.
I think one that we do need totackle at some point in time is
definitely a screen basedlifestyle, like we've got to get
into that because we're walkingthrough it hard.
Well, and we just want toinvite you into our convictions,
that's really what it's about,yeah.
Yeah, but until next time,everybody, we would love to just
say embrace your beautiful mess, because if our mess can be
(57:18):
blessed, what Ben?
Ben (57:19):
So can yours.
Liz (57:20):
So can yours have a great day.
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