April 25, 2025 • 52 mins
What happens in your brain when you give generously? Ben and Liz tackle the fascinating science behind "cheerful giving" and reveal how our brains actually release dopamine and endorphins during acts of generosity – the same reward chemicals we experience when receiving gifts ourselves!
They share vulnerable stories of their giving journey, including a surprising mountain bike gift divinely orchestrated between Ben and a missionary friend, and a powerful moment when they each received the exact same financial amount to give while praying separately. These experiences reveal how giving stretches our faith while simultaneously connecting us more deeply with God's heart.
Drawing from Randy Alcorn's Treasure Principle, they unpack six transformative frameworks for developing a cheerful giver's heart, including the fundamental understanding that "God prospers me not to raise my standard of living, but to raise my standard of giving." Studies confirm that generous people break free from the scarcity mindset that plagues our culture – the more you give, the more "enough" you feel you have.
For those wanting to cultivate generosity, Ben and Liz offer practical steps anyone can implement: start where you are (consistency matters more than amount), practice gratitude daily, make giving decisions as a family, and build giving into your budget as a priority. The rewards? Joy that transcends circumstances, freedom from materialism's grip, modeling kingdom values for your children, and storing up eternal treasures.
Mentioned in the Episode:
- Treasure Principle (affiliate link)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
testing.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Testing one, two, three testing one, two and three
testing one, two and threetesting one testing two testing
three.
Testing one, two and threetesting one, two testing three.
Testing one, two and threetesting one, two and three.
Okay, here we go.
All right, I feel like it's alittle frizzy.
No, it looks good, does it?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, okay, Like the highlight on your hair.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
The warm.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The warm highlights, the warm light.
Yeah, okay, looks good.
Welcome to Our One Blessed Mess.
This Welcome to Our One BlessedMess.
This is Ben and Liz, and we arehere with our story of raising
six kids that we had in eightyears while homeschooling,
managing our entrepreneurialhome with two businesses and
currently navigating life withfour teenagers which we have our
fifth one in the next couple ofmonths, which is pretty
(00:57):
exciting Plus seven chickens,two dogs and two goats and
that's just to keep lifeinteresting, because we don't
have enough on our plates, rightthat?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
is a mouthful.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, I know it is a mouthful, I'm just realizing
that like man.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
If I heard that for the first time, I think these
people are crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, we may be crazy , I don't know.
I don't know, but what istoday's conversation about?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Okay, today is one of those conversations I'm really
excited about.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yes, he it's so fun.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
This is a fun thing that we're going to talk about
and I just want to stress andI'm holding in your suspense
here just want to stress we arenot perfect in this.
We have a long ways to go inthis topic but we've had some
really fun things that have comeout pretty cool ones of us
doing this topic yeah so thetopic is cheerful giving
(01:44):
cheerful.
Cheerful giving.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Cheerful giving Such a good topic.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
So what is cheerful giving?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well, I can tell you what it's not.
Let's hear it.
Well, it's not like that onetime that you cheerfully gave
our kids a dog.
That turned out to be adisaster.
Well, I was cheerful in thegiving it's just nobody else was
cheerful to receive it.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Well, they were in the giving, it's, just nobody
else was cheerful to receive it.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well, they were in the beginning.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
That was a terrible animal.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah Well, it was just the wrong fit for our
family it was You're right.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
It was definitely the wrong thing we adopted, and who
was dead set about getting it?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Oh, definitely, it was not me, it was me, wasn't it
?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yes, it was you.
It was me, wasn't it?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yes, it was you.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I was so wrong.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
You were looking at me and I was thinking is he
saying that it's me?
No, it was not me.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I tried to give the gift of a dog to our family.
Yes, we already had two dogs.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Well, Humane Society there was one that was there,
and you saw a little sweet puppyand we were on a breakfast date
with all of our kids and theywalked past and they're like oh
oh, dad, dad, and I don't wantany part of it.
You told me yeah, you were likeno, this is not a good thing.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I don't feel good about this.
And it wasn't the timing, Ithink, and I still pushed and I
have to admit that every timeI've pushed pretty sure every
single time that I've pushed andyou were saying, nope, this is
not a good idea.
I've always regretted it thisis actually I'm having a
realization right now.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
You are I love that you're confessing this to
everybody who's listening tothis episode.
That it just well it came intomy mind.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
I'm like dang every single time I have pushed and,
pushed and pushed oh, you'rewrong, liz uh-huh every single
time.
Uh-huh, I've regretted it.
I know I have some marriageadvice right there.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, I literally have a list of quite a few
things that I could start namingbut I'm not going to name and
I'm like, yep, that was bad, yep, that was bad, that was bad,
okay, anyway, so you got thisdog, yeah.
And she was cute, I mean shewas very cute but her
temperament and the kind of dogthat she was a Weimaraner and
Australian sheepdog mix.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
And we thought the sheepdog would be out because we
have chickens and we needed ashepherd.
Right but what we got was amass murderer.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
We got a bird dog.
We got a mass murderer as a dog.
She took the life of many ofour chickens.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Eight.
She killed eight chickens, Liz.
Yes, I know she killed eightchickens and she ripped into one
of the coops that we had andgot in there and I mean ripped
it apart.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
So, anyway, she ate through a dog, crate Yep, she
ate through her dog crate, andsomehow this dog figured out how
to get in and out of her houseby opening up doors.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
The dog figured out how to open the front stinking
door.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, this dog was so smart it's a smart dog.
She was a happy dog and youfigure in a family our size,
like that kind of dog should bein a family our size, Right size
, and we were playing with herand everything and working with
her and you were diligent totrain her and work with her and
after she killed more chickensand it was like a massacre we
(04:35):
just came to the conclusion thatshe needs a new home.
And we were able to find her anew home and she's fine and all
that kind of stuff and she'shappy where she is.
But that was a gift.
That was not a good gift thatwasn't a cheerful gift, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
It ended up being a bad gift, yeah.
So we're not talking aboutthose kind of gifts today.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
And there's some other stories about this dog,
but we'll have to share those onanother episode.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
That'll be another podcast, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And there's some very funny stories about this dog,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
But yeah, we're going to talk about how it's almost
counterint sacrificial giving,but there's an incredible joy
that comes when we givesomething away.
And so you think, oh man, thatlike that seems kind of
backwards.
Right, you like, you want tomake sure you're thinking about
yourself and survival thefittest and all the things that
we've been right talked abouthow we as humans, like you know,
(05:16):
just relate, and what's cool isthat there's just this
surprising joy yeah, that comeswhen we give and there's even
some crazy brain science behindit.
You know we're going to talkabout brain science If we're
going to be here on this podcast.
Ben is going to talk aboutbrain science.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Here's the ironic thing you guys like.
A couple of years ago I doveheavy into brain science, Like I
was listening to lots and lotsof episodes from Dr Caroline
Leaf.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Hey, you made a disciple.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I guess I did, and I would come with all these like
amazing things that I waslearning and like saying this is
what science is discovering andit's in the Bible, and they
cross, pollinate and, of course,science is just proving
everything that God has alwayssaid.
And now look, ben even has hisscience glasses on.
If you're watching this onYouTube, you can see his science
glasses.
Yeah, he has pure shades, Idon't know Clear they're clear.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
You know what?
My sister's favorite color fora long time was clear, so she
would have which sister was thatI'm not going to say, but your
shades, she would have lovedyour glasses.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yeah so anyway, he's looking very scientific today.
That's the point I'm trying tomake.
So what is the brain sciencebehind giving.
This was unique when Ben foundthis.
Okay, this is good.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Before we jump into the brain science.
I do want to try to lay like abiblical foundation, and I do
have one story that goes with it.
So let's do that first, andthen we'll come back to the
brain science, because it'sreally fun.
Okay, but just starting out,there's this verse that I
thought always made a lot ofsense to me.
It's 2 Corinthians 9, 7.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yep, each of you should give what you have
decided in your heart to give,not reluctantly or under
compulsion, for God loves acheerful giver.
So that's kind of one of ourtakeaway verses for today is
that God loves a cheerful giver,but it's also in this
non-reluctant or not compulsive.
(07:03):
It has to have that emotion ofcheerful.
You have to be joyful in yourgiving Absolutely, and I think
there's a reason why.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yes, what is it Tell us I?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
think the reason is because you connect with God's
heart when you are, because he'sa giver, he loves to give and
it's His pleasure to give goodgifts to His children,
absolutely so we connect withthat dynamic.
That's when I feel like itreally unlocks the actual result
of our giving.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
And what's funny is I was young, I was probably 19
when I discovered that verse andI was like, oh, it's so cool.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
We shouldn't give under reluctancy or compulsion,
we should be giving with thischeerful heart attitude, but I
actually gave an what do theycall it?
Offertory Offertory.
Yeah, we were at a service forcollege and young adults.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, it was a college and young adults, and I
happened to be the college andcareer leader at the time.
I don't even want to say pastor, but that's basically what I
was.
You were doing a great job, Iwas 19.
Yeah, you were doing a greatjob, you were young.
Yeah, they sent me in there andmaybe in love too.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, they sent me in there to make sure that you
were doing it right though theywere like Ben's kind of green,
can you get in there and makesure he's doing what he's doing?
And I was like, yeah, cause Ibring administration and all the
things and you're five years myelder, so you knew what was
going on.
Thanks for telling everybody.
Sorry, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
I outed you.
Yeah, thanks, but anyways.
So I'm up there and I'm givingthe offertory and I'm saying,
hey, you guys, we shouldn't giveunder compulsion.
We basically just word for wordthis verse and then at the end,
the pastor at the time ran upto the stage.
Right after.
Well, if you want to give undercompulsion, we totally will
(08:46):
take that too, and so I was justlike it just fell really flat.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
We're like whoa geez, that's the Lord.
And the people who were in thataudience even were like ooh
that wasn't right.
They were like no, that's notwhat the scripture says, like
you literally just spoke againstthe scripture, right, right?
So anyway, we had an eyeopeningexperience.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah and I.
But I think that's kind ofindicative of the culture we
live in.
It's like we think about givingto get instead of being a
cheerful giver Absolutely RightLike we were so focused on the
reward oh, if we're going togive, we'll get back in return,
and that I think, a lot of timesis our motivation and I know
I've even felt like that attimes.
I'm like well, I'm going to giveyou know, so that way God will
(09:25):
bless me.
It's like, no, don't give undercompulsion, don't give
reluctantly, and I also think,don't give so that you can just
get something back.
Give from a cheerful heart.
Yes, yes, have joy in yourgiving.
Yes, and I think there's someother verses we can do, like
Proverbs 11, 24, 25.
One person gives freely, yetgains even more.
(09:46):
Another withholds unduly andcomes to poverty.
A generous person will prosper.
Whoever refreshes others willbe refreshed, and so that's that
principle, yeah, and I lovethat.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Whoever refreshes others will be refreshed.
That is a principle, yeah,especially for those.
And I just want to say, becausethis is talking about finances,
right, this is what it'stalking about finances, but also
I think that crosses over intoI'm just thinking of those who
are loving others.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
If you're refreshing others, then you will be
refreshed right, it's a promisethat the Lord is giving.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
It's a promise.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Right, yeah, right.
And again, like we don't givejust to get back Right.
But there is that promise ofthe Lord, like you know, and
even in Malachi, right.
Like the principle of the tithe.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Right, there's a testing in it.
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And that's, like I think, the only place in the
Bible where the Lordspecifically says test me in
this.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
And I want to say test them, yeah, because we've
tested him.
Yeah, we have.
We have with our finances, withour tithing, and it has been
every good thing that has comethrough this house.
We know it has been from theLord.
We know it's been at his goodmeasure that he's done it.
It's not 100%.
Not because of us.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Not because of us Not because, we marketed ourselves
or our businesses the right wayor done all the things right.
In fact, we've done a lot ofthings wrong.
Absolutely One thing that wehave been pretty consistent, and
I don't have to say I don'tknow what our track record is
because I haven't tracked itthroughout our whole marriage,
but we've tried to be verydiligent on tithing, because we
knew that that was somethingthat the Lord takes a look at
(11:16):
and he asks us to test him inthis.
And so again, not that we givejust because we want to get back
, but we give because we believeGod's faithful.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
We know God's faithful.
We know God's faithful.
You know, we don't just believeit.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
We know it, we know yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
And we are so thankful he's faithful.
Yeah, because we're not.
Yeah, this is true, this istrue.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
We failed a ton.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
And I think Acts 20, 35 sums it up to receive.
So when we do, when we doconnect with God's heart about
giving like there is such ablessing that comes back and so.
I think we can go into some ofthat brain science-y stuff that
talks about some of what happenswhen we do give.
There's some really cool things.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yes, and it's so funny because that scripture I
feel like most people know itand quote it, even non-believers
.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, yeah, it's more blessed to give
than to receive.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, yeah for sure yeah.
It's more blessed to give thanto receive.
Yeah, so, but what's crazy is?
There's science.
There is, and this is whatyou're about to jump into Get
ready guys.
Ben's pulling out a science hat.
Yeah, we're going to go alittle science-y.
He's got his science glasses on.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
My clear glasses, His clear glasses.
So one of the things that we'regoing to talk about is a
helper's high.
So what happens is like when wegive or when we serve it
activates the brain's rewardcenter and it releases dopamine
and endorphins.
And I have to say I have anexample of this.
There was one time where I wasgetting into the sport of
(12:40):
mountain biking.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Oh, this is a cool story.
You guys, this is a great story.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And so I was looking online and it was back when we
didn't have a lot of disposableincome.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
No, we didn't, and my wife being the amazing person,
she is she bought me this bike?
Off of eBay.
I scrimped and saved and keptmy birthday money and my
Christmas money.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
You pulled off something amazing I did.
I saved Because I was like whoawhat the heck I did.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I saved Because I was like whoa what the heck.
I know I bought what you wanted, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
You got what I wanted .
I was really floored.
I was so happy to have thisbike.
I was riding it all the time.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yes, you were.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
My friends were looking at it thinking like, wow
, that's so cool.
It was a full suspensionmountain bike and it was used,
but it was still.
It was a fun bike.
It was just a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
You got lost on that bike.
I did.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, I ended up somewhere.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
In another state.
He ended up in another state.
That's another story.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
But anyways, I really enjoyed that bike.
All that to say, and it wasfrom you, it was special.
Yeah, I had a great time withit.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I rode with some buddies.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
We just had a blast oh yeah, and all of a sudden I
have a dream.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yep, which is very rare for Ben.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, I'm not a huge dreamer.
It happens on occasion, acouple times a year, where I'll
remember something realsignificant, but this time it
was like a real, vivid dream.
Yes, in the dream, one of myfriends.
I looked at him and I just knewthat I was supposed to give my
bike to this friend.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
And he was a missionary?
Yeah, he was a missionary.
Yeah, he didn't have any moneyreally.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
And and then it like, and it was.
It wasn't like a super, superdetailed dream, but it was just
that part was really vivid to meand that just kind of came like
more and more each day.
I was like feeling like, man, Ithink I should really do this.
And I and I came before you andI was like hey, what do you
think about this?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, and I don't remember exactly what you told
me.
Do you remember what you said?
I was like, if you are feelingthe Lord is telling you to do
this, then you better obey him.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Because to me things are things.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Like it's okay.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
You know, the Bible says you have two cloaks, give
one.
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Exactly that you were like, so okay with me just
giving it to him Because.
I mean it was a big deal foryou to get it.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
It was a big deal for me to receive it.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Like you know, it was just so special, and so I gave
my friend the bike.
And he as soon as I told himthat what I was doing and what
I'd give him.
He was like whoa, no way, noway.
He had had a dream and in thedream, I gave him the bike.
This is the crazy part yes, andso it was really cool.
His name is Dave, and hopefullyI don't spoil my reward and him
(15:07):
for telling that story, but Ithink the cool thing about it
was like God directed me to givehim the bike and directed him
to receive it and it was justthis really cool thing.
I was like I was on thishelper's high phenomenon.
I was just on cloud nine.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I don't know how else to describe it, knowing that
like the Lord had orchestratedit, orchestrated it, and then I
did it, and he felt so much loveto receive it.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
And it was just like whoa.
This is amazing feeling andhe's a neat, neat guy.
Yeah, he's married and he livesin another nation.
Yeah, yeah, he does.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Building a family.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
And building a family and and and two, he knew like
where we were at, evenfinancially, and that he's like
you have a family, you know, buthe like totally loved it and he
knew how much you loved thatbike because you went biking
with him yeah but his bike wasnot good ever yeah, his was
really old and, um, yeah, hejust he really appreciated it
yeah and, uh, it was so cool,it's so cool, just that you know
, I got to have that thatexperience and feel the way that
(16:07):
I did Now did you get anotherbike.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I can't remember what happened.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I'm sure I did at some point, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
I think your business started taking off when we had
more finance, and so then youwere able to get what you wanted
.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah, it was right around the same time that I was
going out on my own and therewas more finances Trying to
remember exactly.
Yeah, remember exactly yeah,yep, yeah.
But so other studies show thatgiving money to others produces
more happiness than spending iton ourselves.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
So that's a 2008 study.
Yes, ubc, yeah, and that'sreally cool, right, like you
actually become more happyspending on others than you do
yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yes, yes, yes.
I say yes.
Now, some people don't havethat as a love gift.
I say yes Now some people don'thave that as a love gift.
Right Giving, yeah, yeah, yeah,love language, yeah, it's true,
so it might be harder for somepeople to do that.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
It might be harder, but I think the principle still
applies, whether it's your giftor not.
Like if you can learn to be agiver, I think you will unlock
parts of not only your heart butalso, I think, the way that God
intends you to live Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
But there is a spiritual gift that's giving.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
There is, yeah, that's like a whole nother
category, that's like a wholenother thing.
I don't know that if I had that, I don't know.
Well, if you've ever beenaround somebody who has the gift
of giving, it is Usuallythey're very wealthy Because
they normally show love bygiving you gifts.
And it's like they give andthen the Lord keeps blessing
them.
And they give and then the Lordkeeps blessing them.
(17:28):
It's mind-blowing.
I've seen that principle withpeople that are unsaved.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Oh, it's a universal principle.
I think so.
I think it is.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, I think it doesn't matter if you are a
believer or not, If you operatein some level of that.
There's just something that isa reward principle that I think
God dishonors.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
It's like a law, yeah , isn't it?
It is, it's crazy.
So anyway, test a minute.
It is crazy.
Test a minute One more thingtoo.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
MRI studies show that altruistic behavior, so like
giving and loving and giving ofyourself, activates the same
pathways as receiving rewards.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
So it's funny.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
It's like that's cool , yeah, it's like giving is
almost similar brain functionsas receiving that's amazing so
like you know, like we all wantto be blessed, we all want to
receive.
Try giving you never know thatmight activate some of the same
kind of mental activity.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Another thing in 2013,.
Jama pediatrics found thatvolunteering improves
cardiovascular health and lowersblood pressure.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
I think that is so wise.
Can I just jump in here realquick and just say you know, I
was speaking with a mom who's arecent empty nester and she's
having to redefine her life andshe's having to redefine where
her focus has been.
She is actually two differentmoms I'm thinking of in this.
Last week I've had thisconversation and what do I do
now?
(18:51):
My children don't need me likethey needed me.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
That's a big change.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Uh-huh, big change, and so we discuss volunteering,
putting it in your schedule, andyou think about some of these
ones that live to be into their80s and 90s.
I'm thinking of yourgrandmother that lived to be 94.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
She volunteered a lot .
Speaker 2 (19:09):
She volunteered at the local hospital.
I mean she was even up therewith her walker when she had hip
surgery.
I mean, your grandmother andmany of those ladies have lived
to be really well high intotheir life because there's an
endorphin.
That's there and they're livingfor something.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
There is and you bring up a good point.
This is not in the notes, butthere's what these are called
blue zones around the world,which is where people live over
a hundred and more frequencythan any other parts of the
world, and so they're all over.
There's spots in Japan, I think,there's one on the West Coast
of California.
There's some in Japan, I thinkthere's one on the West Coast of
California, there's some inSouth America, but a lot of
(19:48):
these places, these people livein community, strong community,
and that seems to correlate withlongevity.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yes, people living older.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yes, and then they also look at some of the
altruistic behaviors and a lotof them have that built into
their culture, where it's agiving culture and they are
living for other people and theytake care of other people, yep.
So yeah, I think that's reallyimportant.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Isn't that interesting?
I mean it can increase yourlifespan.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
In fact, there's another study out there that
shows you actually have a 24%lower mortality rate if you're a
regular volunteer.
So this goes exactly with whatyou're saying that's why your
grandmother lifted both of yourgrandmothers actually.
Yeah, I married into a goodfamily yeah.
You know, another thing of ittoo is like when we give, we
(20:37):
actually break something calledthe scarcity mindset.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Oh, absolutely.
So this is another kind of likebrain science-y thing.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
It's the paradox of generosity the more you give,
the more enough you feel youhave, that's right.
Which I think is kind of that'skind of unique, like that's
actual studies that show rightthat principle happening.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
It's like upside down backwards, exactly Inside out,
yeah, happening.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
It's like upside down backwards, exactly Inside out,
yeah, thinking it is, and justthrough that abundance
perspective right, you allowyour brain to kind of change the
way that you perceive thingsand you even perceive your
surroundings.
So it's just amazing when youcome at things with the concept
of having enough to give, youcan actually start to rewire the
(21:24):
way that you perceive your ownexperiences and things that are
going on in your life Like youcan even help you change and be
able to see a more positiveoutcome.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
It's amazing.
It is, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I think a lot of it too is because when you give it
shifts your brain from thatsympathetic nervous system the
fight or flight more into theparasympathetic, which is the
rest and digest.
So when you're giving you'reautomatically like getting out
of that fight or flight andgoing into the rest and digest.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I love that.
I love to be, rest and digest.
I like good food too Well yeah,that, yes, you do, you enjoy it.
You're a foodie.
But I'm just thinking aboutthat scarcity mindset and you
know, sometimes I remember whenI was growing up and you know,
if you don't know, we grew upwithout, we really didn't have
(22:12):
finance, but a lot of times mydad would say we are the richest
people on earth and we wouldgive, we were giving to those
around us.
I mean, my dad was a mechanicby trade and so he would fix
single moms their vehicles forfree, or they would like bring
you know something, bread thatthey baked or something like
that.
That's all they had, and youknow that was in this time, but
(22:33):
what we had, we were sharing,and I just think that you know
there is something in thereabout that.
There's always more.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
That mindset.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
That mindset and we have our Heavenly Father.
Yes, it is bountiful.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yes, unlimited resources.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Unlimited resources.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
And I think, when we're holding and clutching on
and we're not releasing andgiving you cannot take it with
you, right?
Speaker 1 (22:58):
You can't.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And we're just a steward of what's His anyway.
Yeah, so we're just a stewardof what's his anyway.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
So we want to be able to release that and just be
just a manager.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yes, of his finance.
Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
A hundred and four percent.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
A hundred and ten percent.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Oh, you're going to raise me even more, raising the
stakes A thousand percent.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Okay, okay, I yield Okay, but so we had a crazy
story, okay.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I know which one you're sharing that happened to
us.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yes, and super unique because we felt the Lord speak
to us individually Yep Praying.
And so there was a family thatcame across our radar and they
were in need.
It was like one of those likecrisis moments, right when the
body needs needed to step in.
And so I felt like there wassome of that, like we felt like
(23:45):
compelled to help this familybecause they were our friends
and we just knew they needed thehelp.
But then, all of a sudden, Ifelt the Lord speak to me about
a certain number, and it was.
It was a big number, and I was,oh shoot, well, I'm going to do
this.
Like Liz is going to have to beon board.
Like Liz is going to have tohear something too.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Absolutely.
And we have an understanding.
A lot of times we had beenpracticing this.
I want everybody to know thatwe've been doing this along, all
along in our marriage, where wewould you know, something would
come up and we would pray and alot of times we would get the
same amount.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
And or we both would hear from the Lord.
Yes, give, you need to begiving.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Or even move, or move .
I remember that was a move onetoo.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Well, I mean a lot of things.
So we had been building ourmuscle so to speak faith muscle
and trusting the Lord to speakto the other.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
That would have been perfect.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
No, but trusting the Lord to speak to the other when
one felt something.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
And you know, let's be clear, our finances are the
Lord's anyway, and the increasethat we have had in our
businesses, is because of him.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
And so we're just managing it.
You know, and I want to saythis You're like, our bills are
always paid.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
You know it's amazing .
And so when you came to me andyou said, hey, I know, and I'm
like, yes, we're supposed togive, and then you're like, well
, I need you to pray about anamount because I feel like the
Lord dropped an amount in myheart, and I was like okay, and
uh, and I kind of poopooed it.
I was like whatever, likewhatever.
Can I just say that I don't?
Speaker 1 (25:23):
know if I had enough faith to go first, so I made you
go first, yes, so so it hadbeen like a week and we were
traveling.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, ironically, we were traveling and we had just
made a pit stop and and, um, and, and I was a little bit more on
the grumpier side and um, Ican't remember.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Is now a good time to talk about how much to kiss?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, why you brought it up then?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I don't know, I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
But we're in our big travel van and you say you know
we're supposed to give, and Iwas like yeah.
And you're like, well, did youever like in a snarky little way
did you ever pray about theamount?
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Like you go first.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah, yeah, and I was like no, and, and I was like no
, I didn't.
And then the Lord, like, in hiskindness, was like I told you
the amount because when youfirst said it to me I felt like
the Lord gave me a number rightthen.
And I didn't like the number.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
And I was like that can't even be the Lord.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Like that is the biggest amount that we've ever
given in our marriage ever ever,ever.
And so when you said to meafter you know, we I was
supposed to be praying about itfor a week, I forgot about it
and didn't want to talk about itreally.
And so here I am in one ofthese moods and and you're like
well, have you prayed about it?
And I was like no.
And then the Lord likeimmediately quickened your heart
(26:30):
, yeah, quickened in my heartand he was like, uh, that's not
true.
I told you.
And he said and I told you, gofirst.
Yeah, I said I said, well,actually the Lord did tell me an
amount.
And, um, I felt him drop it inmy heart and and you're like,
well, what is it Tell me?
And I was like I don't want totell you.
(26:50):
He goes, you have to tell me.
And I said I don't want to tellyou and I'm not going to tell
you how long this went on.
I was like, and plus we havelistening ears behind us too,
Like there's kids right behindus.
So I'm like trying to, soanyway I say it.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
You say the amount I say the amount.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
And then I go dang it , we gotta give it.
And then goes dang it, liz, nowwe gotta give it.
And I was like what?
You got the same number.
He's like yes.
I said oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
But then we had like a holy fear and I was like we
better, but it wasn't funnyanymore.
It's like oh crap, we need todo this yeah the lord
specifically spoke to both youand I we felt like you know we
should do this, and it's a lotwe.
We had the means to do it, butwe had to like kind of like pull
from places we normally don'ttouch, and so it was.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
It was a sacrifice, really, it was it was a
sacrifice to give, and you know,and we did, yeah, but then we
got to see that bless someoneand that man, I mean I can
almost start crying.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
It's like you saw how important it was for that
family to receive that gift.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
And they never knew it was us yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
They never knew and hopefully they won't ever find
out.
But you know, even if they do,it doesn't matter.
I think it was like weapproached it with the right
heart and we, we did itcheerfully, even though
reluctantly.
I mean, I have to admit like Iwas a little bit reluctant at
first, I was like dang, that isa, that's a large amount I'm
really going to like it's reallygoing to stretch us and it did,
but we can still do it Like wefeel like the Lord is faithful
(28:15):
in this and we know that.
You know he wants to dosomething in our own lives and
it was amazing to be able to seeit really touch someone.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
And partner yeah.
That's true, not only with theLord, but partner together.
With them, yeah, with you, andit built a stronger bond between
you and I.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
It really did.
Yeah, you're right.
I mean, that was unbelievable.
It was.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
It was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Of course, course, your response was unbelievable,
and so was mine, but you know,we're human, our humanity was
coming out.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
We're human.
It's like, oh no, like you know, people like test god well it
isn't always fun right, but itis stretching.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
It's stretching, but it is.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
It's amazing, and so that's a I'm glad you brought
that story up.
That's a good story it was.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
I mean, it's just so it was so wonderful to see you
know, know again that helper'shigh.
Like it was like man I get todo this.
Like I get to partner with theLord and I get to give and I
even get to see.
Sometimes we don't get to seeright Like sometimes we just
have to give and just the trustthat the Lord's going to take
care and you know it's going toit's going to meet the need.
(29:23):
But we actually got to see theneed being met and you know we
were we were um most of themlooking for like we were
anonymous, yeah, and so that wasreally cool being able to see
it and the person was likerejoicing like oh, I wonder who
that was.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
So that was, yeah, it was fun, it was super fun,
super duper fun.
Yeah, good, good story, goodstory so some takeaways here,
some practical takeaways allright all right, uh, there's a
book called the TreasurePrinciple by Randy Alcorn.
Great book, you guys Great book.
Highly recommend getting it.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
I want to go through the six little principles that
are in his book, because I feellike this is super applicable
and it's the right mindset whenyou want to cultivate a cheerful
giver's heart.
Can I?
Speaker 2 (29:56):
say the first one.
You can definitely.
Okay, you can say all of them.
Oh good, okay, great.
Number one is God ownseverything.
I'm just his money manager.
I said that earlier.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
You did, I did.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
So that is the truth.
He owns it all.
He owns the cattle on athousand hills.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
He owns I mean like, practically, what does that mean
?
Does that mean like we need touse a resource for deciding
where the money goes?
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I think so.
I do think so, and I think alsothat when we were using him, so
to speak, as a resource, we putit in our budget, we recognize
it.
When there's increase, we askthe Lord what do you want us to
do with it?
It doesn't just mean that allthe time you're putting in
stocks and bonds and you'resquirreling it away.
That is very important.
We want to.
(30:39):
We want to be mindful of ourfinances and you and I being
entrepreneurs, we know we haveto have so much um in our
reserve in case there's adrought which there has been,
and so, but also, too, whenthere is there is the um
increase, we have anunderstanding and when a need
arises, maybe that money's putaside and we're like okay, so
(31:01):
that money is supposed to gothere, and so being diligent in
that, but recognizing that we'rejust his managers and it's so
because I grew up.
I grew up on the other end,where if we were going to give
to others, it was mayberesources we had or time
volunteering, things like that,we never could give money.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
That's important.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
We could never give money when I was growing up.
However, because of the kind offamily I grew up in, we
received people obeying the Lordand giving finance.
Or you know buying ourgroceries or putting gas in my
mom's car.
You know paying for her breaksor for her.
You know my dad or whatever itmay be, you know for the
materials breaks, or for her youknow my dad or whatever it may
be.
you know for the materials tomake that happen, and so, being
(31:44):
on the other end of that, I knowwhat it's like to receive and.
I also know when it's like whatit's like when you don't have
the money for the electric billand your, your power is about to
be turned off.
I mean, there was one time wecouldn't pay our electric bill
and we didn't have electricityfor two weeks, two, two weeks,
wow, two, whole weeks, wow, yeah.
And out of the kindness ofsomeone's heart, heard about it
and gave and paid that bill, andso you know, I know what that's
(32:05):
like to be on the other side,and for some people it's just
like, well, it's just a couplehundred dollars.
I don't know what good it woulddo, but it could be.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Massive, massive.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
And so we the Lord talks about the woman who came
in the Bible with her two mites,and how precious that was.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
So it doesn't matter the amount.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Right, I think it's the heart and the posture.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Okay, so number two.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Well, that's pretty much it.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Number two yeah, number two, the heart always
goes where I put God's money.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yes, that's important , like your treasure will be
where your heart will be, whereyour treasure is.
Yeah, so you, yeah, you, justyou gotta like use that
principle Right, and that's howyou can kind of direct your
heart.
Absolutely Right, it's almostputting the cart before the
horse.
You know, it's like I'm goingto give, even if my heart's not
in it, and then watch whathappens.
So, yeah, I mean, I feel likewe're not always perfect in how
(33:04):
we we, you know come acrossgiving opportunities, but the
times where we've really like,just felt the Lord and we
decided, you know we're, we'regoing to do this and be
unselfish.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Like man.
I can't tell you how many timesyour heart just comes alive
when you partner with them inthat and I want to say too, like
when you're giving, you have toput hands off of it Like you,
really no strings attached andyou and I kind of have that
understanding of somebody comesto us and they say, hey, can I
borrow money?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
You and I will talk about it and we'll pray and
we'll be in agreeance, and thenwe give them the money.
And if they want to pay it back, they can.
But we're now, don't y'allstart coming to us asking us for
money.
Okay, but we will say this is agift.
this is a gift to you and also,when we give, we don't want to
say hey, there's stringsattached to it.
You have to take this money anduse it the way that we think.
(33:55):
Now, if there is an issuethat's there and you know that
maybe there's substance abuse orsomething like that, just go
pay their bill for them, go paytheir rent for them.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Like you know, there's benevolence.
Do what they need.
Yeah, Do what they need.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
There's benevolence ministries at lots of churches
and they have oftentimesbenevolence pastors and they do
these exact things.
But you know, be smart with it,exactly.
Be a manager.
Yeah, be smart with it Allright, what's number three?
Oh, heaven, not earth, is myhome.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Okay, so having that heavenly perspective, that's
super important giving.
Yes, right, because reallywe're just talking about a short
little time on earth and areally really, really, really,
really long time in heaven, andso obviously, the priority is
yeah.
Eternity.
Obviously, the priority iseternity.
So, like the things that we doon earth that affect eternity,
like we have to be locked in onthose things.
(34:39):
Like the things that we do onearth that affect eternity, like
we have to be locked in onthose things.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
And this affects eternity, it does.
The Lord is watching Right.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
He asked, like you know, and like even in I believe
it's Matthew, where he's asked,like the people that are before
him, asking Lord, when did wesee you hungry?
When?
Speaker 2 (34:56):
did we see you thirsty?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
You know, it's like when you did the least unto the
least of these my brothers, andso like we have to keep in mind.
Yeah, like our giving is notjust about that person or about
us, it's also about the Lord.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
We're giving it unto the Lord.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
So yeah, eternity is super important, not earth is
also about the Lord.
That's right.
We're giving unto the Lord.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
So, yeah, eternity is super important.
Heaven, not earth, is my home.
Yeah.
And number four, I think, iskind of a similar concept I
should live not for the dot butfor the line, and obviously the
dot representing earth, the linerepresenting eternity, so good.
And then, number five giving isthe only antidote to
materialism.
We live in a very materialisticculture.
I mean, I admit I'mmaterialistic.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I'm not going to say anything.
I'm taking deep breaths overhere.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Speaking of my upbringing, yeah, I think I just
have some tendencies where,like, if I think I need it, I'll
just go out and get it, andit's like whoa slow down, okay.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
So today we ran into Ben's cousin and he said we were
talking about something.
Oh, we told him we have goats,and he goes oh, ben the idea man
.
And I go, you're right.
He goes, yeah, ben's alwaysbeen an idea man.
I go, you're right.
And then he goes he also is athing man.
This guy has everything.
He's like Ben.
What was that recent thing youhad that I couldn't believe you
(36:08):
owned?
Yeah, because he needed it,needed it, and you let him
borrow it and it was like acamera.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, it was a, it was a little camera that like a
snake?
Yeah, it's like a snake camerayou use it to go and figure out
little, small spaces and getvisibility into what's there,
and so he needed one, and I hadone, of course uh-huh, of course
he goes.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
You know, ben always ben's, just that guy always has
it.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
So yeah, anyway but anyway, so I but anyway.
So I'm trying to get better atthat.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
You are.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Not always just satisfy every desire.
Where I think I need something,but actually pray about it,
consult you.
That's been a hard one.
I feel like I'm finally gettingover, realizing that there's
another person that I have toask besides myself.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Two decades later 20 years.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Some people are slow learners, but anyways.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
No, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Giving is really the only antidote to materialism.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
I feel like when you give it's so counterculture.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
It is.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
It's so about not yourself, hopefully, if you're
doing it with a chill for heartand you're doing it as unto the
Lord and you really just you'refocusing on that person, one
receiving the gift.
And I mean we live in a selfishculture, we live in a
materialistic culture.
When you're giving, you'regoing against that.
So it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
It's good, it's good, all right.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Number six Number six Go for it.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
God prospers me not to raise my standard of living,
but to raise my standard ofgiving.
That's why he prospers you.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
And we've seen it in our life.
We have, yeah, we haven't.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, it's amazing to be able to help people in need.
Yes, you know, it's just.
It's so cool.
It's so cool to be able to seethere's a pattern, even in our
giving, where certainindividuals have come across
like a type of individual.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yes, yes, and you know what I'm talking about.
I do.
I don't want to say justbecause no, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
But anyways.
So there's a certain type ofindividual that comes across our
radar and we just feel likewe're supposed to give to these
type of people and it is so.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
It's an assignment.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
It's fascinating.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
It's really fascinating because even people
who interact with us in materialmeans are these type of people,
and I know I'm being cryptichere, so just work with me, but
it's just fascinating.
The Lord really loves a certainpeople group, and those people
groups are the ones that have noother means have no other way
to support themselves and theyhave no other way to ever repay
(38:29):
us.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, exactly that.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
And so when we focus in, for whatever reason, that's
just been what the Lord's askedus to focus on.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
We like doing it in secret.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
And man, there's such a reward, yes, there's such a
reward and being able to say,hey, we help those type of
people.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
But they don't even know.
They don't even know.
Yeah, it's amazing, it's superfun, it's super fun.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
It's, it's almost.
You just have to try it, justhave to take our word for it.
See, see how it goes so okay,those are some of the six steps
that were in that book.
What about just some practicalsteps to cultivate a cheerful
giver's heart, like where do youstart with this right?
Let's say, like, maybe you'vebeen a little bit more
materialistic or you've beenselfish and you know, like me,
(39:09):
you're trying to figure out howto break out of that.
So so where do you start?
Where do you go from here?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Well, I would say our number one is start where you
are.
Yeah, consistency matters morethan amount.
Yeah, especially when it comesto tithing Habits, right Like
developing that habit of giving.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
And just putting it in your budget, putting it in
your schedule, knowing that, hey, I need to build this muscle of
giving.
I got to start somewhere.
I might as well, start smalland just make it a habit.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Right, and I was just thinking how, in other cultures
that you know, even otherfaiths.
I'm just thinking of Judaism.
When a Jewish person is goingto the Holy Land and they're
going to go on a trip, a lot oftimes people that are in their
synagogue will give themenvelopes of cash and the reason
they give it to them is to havethat person who's going.
(40:00):
They take that cash and whenthey're walking through the
streets in Jerusalem, say to theTemple Mount or wherever
they're going, they're handingit all out to the beggars.
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
I know and so-.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
It's not even for them.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
They're giving them money.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yeah, to be able to give to other people.
Yes, to give away, and becausethey recognize it as a blessing,
I love that.
Yeah, and so anyway, just thatconsistency.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
It will become a part of your muscle.
Yeah, I love that You'restrengthening that.
I love that.
Yeah, number two, practice Oohso good as a blessing.
And pointing out the thingsthat you have, not the things
that you don't have.
That's right, right.
And then focusing on, likemaybe even how to figure out how
to start giving out of thatright, like there's again, when
(41:01):
you're giving, you realize thatyou have enough, Like there's
that brain science that comesinto that, that exercise of
being able to give you start tothink, oh, I actually do have
enough.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
I do have more than I need, and I was thinking
something that you and I do.
We go on walks prettyfrequently, and when we go on
our walks we kind of do thisthing where it's like a
gratitude walk.
Yeah, as we're walking, we juststart we point out the things
we just start pointing out allthe things that we're thankful
for, all the things we're givingour gratitude to the Lord and
and there's so much in gratitude, and how powerful that is when
we have a thankful, gratefulheart.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
You know, I just keep thinking about the children of
Israel that were stuck in thedesert for 40 years and they
were so close to the Holy Land.
They were so close but becausethey were complaining and
basically like yelling at God,saying why did you take us out
of Egypt where we could havewhatever we wanted?
Now we're eating this and that,and so the Lord kept him in the
desert for 40 years.
And I just think about if ourkids are coming to us with
(42:00):
thankfulness and gratefulnessand their hearts of gratitude,
we are more wanting to blessthem when they come to us and
like we loved it when we wentout as a family and got ice
cream.
It makes us want to do ice creamagain as parents, and so we
have a heavenly father, Abba,Papa, God, you know, you hear
all these terms right.
And so when we havethankfulness and gratefulness
(42:23):
and we are saying those thingsto the Lord, oh my gosh, it
unlocks our hearts and it helpsus to be able to get the right
perspective and it kills thatscarcity mindset it really does
or that disgruntled complainingmindset yeah.
So I'm all about that, woo.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Love it.
Here's a.
Here's another practical.
Make giving decisions togetheras a couple or family.
If you're married or have afamily like, invite your people
into the giving decision.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
It's so good because, then they get to be a part of
the story too, and they get tosee how it unfolds.
It's an adventure, it is and youknow, even like, we have a
couple of orphans that wesupport as a family and so it's
been neat for the kids to seethese kids that we support
around the world and they're indifferent locations.
And Ben, in case you guys don'tknow, he's like a big softie.
(43:13):
He really, really is.
He's a big softie, but bringingthe kids into that has been so
good because we're instillingthat into them and we pray that
they continue it on as adultswhen they're parents with their
kids, because there's alwaysneed in the earth and we get to
partner with the Lord on this.
Yes, we do.
We get to partner with him.
Yeah, we get to partner withhim, so fun.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
And the last point we have here is just building,
giving into your budget rightSet it as a priority, not as an
afterthought.
And we talk with our kids aboutthe five buckets of finance.
We talk about spending, saving,investing, giving and tithing,
and so that's just one of thosebuckets right.
We know the tithe is kind of anautomatic thing, right?
(43:56):
The 10%, but consider giving andalso consider putting that in
as a percentage base, right?
So as your income grows, yourgiving grows and it's just kind
of a natural thing.
So those are some practicalsteps with just how to get
started right where you are andif you're not tithing, obviously
you to do that first, likethat's not even considered
giving, that's just kind of likeyour duty.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
So this is like the joy of the giving piece where
it's like going beyond.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
But yeah, I mean obviously like you got to start
somewhere.
If you're not tithing, trytithing, Test God in that he
even says it.
That's Malachi.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
And even if it's two mites, yeah, exactly two little
pennies.
Yeah, gotta start somewhere so,but what comes?
Speaker 1 (44:37):
what do we get back?
What is the?
Speaker 2 (44:38):
what is the reward?
What do we get back?
What?
Speaker 1 (44:41):
do we get back, we get joy yes and I think we get a
joy that even transcends ourcircumstances absolutely right,
it's just something that's likeyeah, I mean gosh.
I definitely want a joy thattranscends circumstances.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Absolutely, and I feel like giving.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
is that pathway to that?
We have freedom from money'sgrip on our hearts.
Absolutely so when we're giving, we're free.
We're free from thatmaterialism.
When we're giving, we'remodeling the kingdom values for
our kids.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
So that's a huge one, especially when you're
partnering and when you're doingas a family and you're bringing
them into it and you'reinviting them into it.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yeah, that's massive, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
And then also this can't be understated when you're
giving, you're actually gettingeternal treasures.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Things that you don't even know about and that are
going to blow our minds ineternity.
Well, and if we can just pauseon this for a second, because I
know, for a long time, when Iwas growing up, I just could not
wrap my head around eternaltreasures.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
I was like well, yeah , what are those?
And?
Speaker 2 (45:42):
why does it even matter?
And it was like, well, here Ihave this need on earth.
And it was almost like, oh yeah, but I'll get to be with Jesus.
He's the only treasure thatI'll need, right, and?
But as I've gotten older andI've studied it a little bit
more, what I am understanding isthat it's not.
Yes, I w we will be with him.
It's going to be amazing.
I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
It's going to be glorious.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Um, however, he has gifts that he wants to give and
it brings him joy to give youthe gifts and the treasures that
you've stored up in heaven thathe has seen.
That's so crazy.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Right and Matthew?
He tells us point blank do notstore up for yourselves
treasures on earth but store upfor yourself treasures in heaven
, and so that's a command right.
So getting into that mindsetyou're talking about, that's
massive Thinking about what wedo as being an investment into
treasure in heaven and notshrinking away from that but
(46:39):
like hey, this is cool.
This is going to reap dividendseternally.
I'm going to be excited aboutthis gift, whatever it is
whatever this eternal treasureis.
I'm going to really like itbecause Jesus told me that this
is what we should do.
This is what we shouldprioritize.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Absolutely.
Yeah, so that's so cool, I'mgoing to really like it, because
Jesus told me that this is whatwe should do.
This is what we shouldprioritize.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Absolutely.
Yeah, so that's so cool.
Yeah, so good, so good.
And then what's the last one,ben, last one.
Romans 12 to this is do not beconformed to the patterns of
this world, but be transformedby the renewing of our mind.
I think giving is one of thosethings that helps renew our mind
.
It's just one of thoseprinciples.
It's in the word and we need tobe transformed by the word.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
Transformed.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Yeah, but when we give, I think there's actually a
transformation that takes placeand I think it helps renew our
mind.
It helps us to break frommaterialism.
It helps us to focus on our owncircumstances.
There's brain science behind itthat talks about things being
unlocked, our reward center andour brain.
I mean, there's just so manycool things that happen when you
give.
It's just part of that renewingof our mind.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
It's part of it, it's freedom.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
It is.
It's freedom.
For you, it's freedom, yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
It's freedom for you and we I cannot say enough we
get to partner with the Lord.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
It's so cool.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yeah, it.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
It's so cool.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
And on top of that we get eternal rewards.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Well, yes, that part, too, is cool, absolutely,
absolutely.
I love everything that we justtalked about.
It's a fun topic.
It is a fun topic.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
We've had a lot of joy in it and we want to
encourage anybody just to go forit.
You know, like to change thatperspective because it really is
freeing.
There's so much that comes withit and I think at the end of
the day, God loves a cheerfulgiver.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Learning how to be cheerful in our giving is so
important.
He loves that and he's justsmiling on all of us.
He really is.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
He's not standing there with a big stick as you're
giving pennies and smacking you.
Yeah, you didn't give enough.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
And I was just thinking of some of my history
of giving with the Lord and backwhen I was like single and
waiting tables and when I was amissionary and you know, out in
the mission field and barely hadany money, and the Lord would
whisper to my heart, I want youto give this money.
And it'd be like you know well,I was going to use that to go,
you know, get a haircut orsomething, and then the Lord
(48:49):
would provide somebody who wouldcut my hair for me for free and
because I and do a better jobthan what I would have ever paid
.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
I mean, there's so many, there's just so many
stories I can't even.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Begin.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Yeah, and even even thinking beyond just giving
financially, giving of your time, giving of your things, like
there's just, there's so much inthat concept of giving that we
just relegate to finances.
But if you can be a, giver atrue giver and you can be
cheerful in that there's so manyways to do that, to see that,
(49:21):
come to life, even outside offinances, Absolutely Right.
So so good.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Yeah, and I just want to say too, as we're talking
about this, that I'm just goingto bring this caution that there
have been families that we'veknown that maybe one spouse is
more of a giver than the otherand they're giving away, like
the mortgage payment and youknow all those things, and so we
would say that you know, makesure that your bills are paid
(49:49):
and you're on the same, yeah, onthe same page, moving forward.
Now that doesn't mean if theLord says to both of you I want
you to empty your bank accountsout, that you don't do that.
You absolutely do what the Lordis saying to do.
But you need to be on the samepage and you don't want to be
evicted from your house becauseyou gave it all away.
Be smart, be a manager of it,but put it in your diet as well.
(50:12):
So I think there's extremes onboth sides.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
There is yeah, but I never.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
I rarely see the extreme that I just shared.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Yes, I don't think I've ever.
I'm thinking of one couple.
Okay, yeah, one couple, yeah.
And that was going on and wesee lots of misers.
Yeah, yeah, is definitely onthe side of the misers, yeah
yeah, yeah, but anyway, I justwanted to throw that out there
in case there was anybody thatwas like well.
Elizabeth maybe.
Yeah, make sure your kids eat.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Yeah like make sure they're eating, make sure you
like bills paid Right exactly,be a good steward.
Be a good steward, and you know,we have always in our marriage
we've always tried to be a goodsteward of everything God's
given us.
And even when we've had emptyrooms, you know we've always the
Lord's filled them, and youknow if we've made extra.
You know, I mean, just all of asudden it's like oh gosh, we
(51:00):
have all this soup and so wegive it to a neighbor and then
we find out the neighbor has nofood.
I mean just like, not becausethey couldn't get it but just
because they were traveling orwhatever, and it's just unique
to see how God will orchestratethe things.
(51:20):
Listening to him and lettinghim direct.
That it's so fun.
It is fun.
It's fun to do it with you too.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
It is, it's amazing.
Is it amazing to do it with you?
Yes, that's what you're saying.
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
You're hilarious, okay?
Well, thank you for being apart of our One Blessed Mess
today, and don't forget tosubscribe and share with a
friend like share heart.
All the things, all the things,no matter how you're watching
or listening to this.
We are so grateful.
We just got a notification thatwe have had a thousand podcasts
downloaded, so that is notincluding YouTube.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Yeah, that's not including YouTube.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
But this is all the other ways that people are
listening to it, and we arenoticing that there are people
listening to it around the world.
So, super exciting and we hopeit's blessing you, we can travel
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we just want to say thank youfor being a part of this.
(52:13):
We really appreciate thefeedback we get from you and on
the connection, and if you havesomething that you're like gosh,
I would love to hear what Benand Liz's thoughts are on this.
We would probably do an episodefor you, but until that, next
time that we connect, we wouldlove to say embrace your,
embrace your beautiful mess,because if our mess can be
(52:35):
blessed, what, benjamin?
What is?
Speaker 1 (52:37):
it, then so can yours .
Speaker 2 (52:38):
Then so can yours have a great day.
testing.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Testing one, two, three testing one, two and three
testing one, two and threetesting one testing two testing
three.
Testing one, two and threetesting one, two testing three.
Testing one, two and threetesting one, two and three.
Okay, here we go.
All right, I feel like it's alittle frizzy.
No, it looks good, does it?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, okay, Like the highlight on your hair.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
The warm.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The warm highlights, the warm light.
Yeah, okay, looks good.
Welcome to Our One Blessed Mess.
This Welcome to Our One BlessedMess.
This is Ben and Liz, and we arehere with our story of raising
six kids that we had in eightyears while homeschooling,
managing our entrepreneurialhome with two businesses and
currently navigating life withfour teenagers which we have our
fifth one in the next couple ofmonths, which is pretty
(00:57):
exciting Plus seven chickens,two dogs and two goats and
that's just to keep lifeinteresting, because we don't
have enough on our plates, rightthat?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
is a mouthful.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, I know it is a mouthful, I'm just realizing
that like man.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
If I heard that for the first time, I think these
people are crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, we may be crazy , I don't know.
I don't know, but what istoday's conversation about?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Okay, today is one of those conversations I'm really
excited about.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yes, he it's so fun.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
This is a fun thing that we're going to talk about
and I just want to stress andI'm holding in your suspense
here just want to stress we arenot perfect in this.
We have a long ways to go inthis topic but we've had some
really fun things that have comeout pretty cool ones of us
doing this topic yeah so thetopic is cheerful giving
(01:44):
cheerful.
Cheerful giving.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Cheerful giving Such a good topic.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
So what is cheerful giving?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well, I can tell you what it's not.
Let's hear it.
Well, it's not like that onetime that you cheerfully gave
our kids a dog.
That turned out to be adisaster.
Well, I was cheerful in thegiving it's just nobody else was
cheerful to receive it.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Well, they were in the giving, it's, just nobody
else was cheerful to receive it.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well, they were in the beginning.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
That was a terrible animal.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah Well, it was just the wrong fit for our
family it was You're right.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
It was definitely the wrong thing we adopted, and who
was dead set about getting it?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Oh, definitely, it was not me, it was me, wasn't it
?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yes, it was you.
It was me, wasn't it?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yes, it was you.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I was so wrong.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
You were looking at me and I was thinking is he
saying that it's me?
No, it was not me.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I tried to give the gift of a dog to our family.
Yes, we already had two dogs.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Well, Humane Society there was one that was there,
and you saw a little sweet puppyand we were on a breakfast date
with all of our kids and theywalked past and they're like oh
oh, dad, dad, and I don't wantany part of it.
You told me yeah, you were likeno, this is not a good thing.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I don't feel good about this.
And it wasn't the timing, Ithink, and I still pushed and I
have to admit that every timeI've pushed pretty sure every
single time that I've pushed andyou were saying, nope, this is
not a good idea.
I've always regretted it thisis actually I'm having a
realization right now.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
You are I love that you're confessing this to
everybody who's listening tothis episode.
That it just well it came intomy mind.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
I'm like dang every single time I have pushed and,
pushed and pushed oh, you'rewrong, liz uh-huh every single
time.
Uh-huh, I've regretted it.
I know I have some marriageadvice right there.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, I literally have a list of quite a few
things that I could start namingbut I'm not going to name and
I'm like, yep, that was bad, yep, that was bad, that was bad,
okay, anyway, so you got thisdog, yeah.
And she was cute, I mean shewas very cute but her
temperament and the kind of dogthat she was a Weimaraner and
Australian sheepdog mix.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
And we thought the sheepdog would be out because we
have chickens and we needed ashepherd.
Right but what we got was amass murderer.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
We got a bird dog.
We got a mass murderer as a dog.
She took the life of many ofour chickens.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Eight.
She killed eight chickens, Liz.
Yes, I know she killed eightchickens and she ripped into one
of the coops that we had andgot in there and I mean ripped
it apart.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
So, anyway, she ate through a dog, crate Yep, she
ate through her dog crate, andsomehow this dog figured out how
to get in and out of her houseby opening up doors.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
The dog figured out how to open the front stinking
door.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, this dog was so smart it's a smart dog.
She was a happy dog and youfigure in a family our size,
like that kind of dog should bein a family our size, Right size
, and we were playing with herand everything and working with
her and you were diligent totrain her and work with her and
after she killed more chickensand it was like a massacre we
(04:35):
just came to the conclusion thatshe needs a new home.
And we were able to find her anew home and she's fine and all
that kind of stuff and she'shappy where she is.
But that was a gift.
That was not a good gift thatwasn't a cheerful gift, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
It ended up being a bad gift, yeah.
So we're not talking aboutthose kind of gifts today.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
And there's some other stories about this dog,
but we'll have to share those onanother episode.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
That'll be another podcast, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And there's some very funny stories about this dog,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
But yeah, we're going to talk about how it's almost
counterint sacrificial giving,but there's an incredible joy
that comes when we givesomething away.
And so you think, oh man, thatlike that seems kind of
backwards.
Right, you like, you want tomake sure you're thinking about
yourself and survival thefittest and all the things that
we've been right talked abouthow we as humans, like you know,
(05:16):
just relate, and what's cool isthat there's just this
surprising joy yeah, that comeswhen we give and there's even
some crazy brain science behindit.
You know we're going to talkabout brain science If we're
going to be here on this podcast.
Ben is going to talk aboutbrain science.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Here's the ironic thing you guys like.
A couple of years ago I doveheavy into brain science, Like I
was listening to lots and lotsof episodes from Dr Caroline
Leaf.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Hey, you made a disciple.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I guess I did, and I would come with all these like
amazing things that I waslearning and like saying this is
what science is discovering andit's in the Bible, and they
cross, pollinate and, of course,science is just proving
everything that God has alwayssaid.
And now look, ben even has hisscience glasses on.
If you're watching this onYouTube, you can see his science
glasses.
Yeah, he has pure shades, Idon't know Clear they're clear.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
You know what?
My sister's favorite color fora long time was clear, so she
would have which sister was thatI'm not going to say, but your
shades, she would have lovedyour glasses.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yeah so anyway, he's looking very scientific today.
That's the point I'm trying tomake.
So what is the brain sciencebehind giving.
This was unique when Ben foundthis.
Okay, this is good.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Before we jump into the brain science.
I do want to try to lay like abiblical foundation, and I do
have one story that goes with it.
So let's do that first, andthen we'll come back to the
brain science, because it'sreally fun.
Okay, but just starting out,there's this verse that I
thought always made a lot ofsense to me.
It's 2 Corinthians 9, 7.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yep, each of you should give what you have
decided in your heart to give,not reluctantly or under
compulsion, for God loves acheerful giver.
So that's kind of one of ourtakeaway verses for today is
that God loves a cheerful giver,but it's also in this
non-reluctant or not compulsive.
(07:03):
It has to have that emotion ofcheerful.
You have to be joyful in yourgiving Absolutely, and I think
there's a reason why.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yes, what is it Tell us I?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
think the reason is because you connect with God's
heart when you are, because he'sa giver, he loves to give and
it's His pleasure to give goodgifts to His children,
absolutely so we connect withthat dynamic.
That's when I feel like itreally unlocks the actual result
of our giving.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
And what's funny is I was young, I was probably 19
when I discovered that verse andI was like, oh, it's so cool.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
We shouldn't give under reluctancy or compulsion,
we should be giving with thischeerful heart attitude, but I
actually gave an what do theycall it?
Offertory Offertory.
Yeah, we were at a service forcollege and young adults.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, it was a college and young adults, and I
happened to be the college andcareer leader at the time.
I don't even want to say pastor, but that's basically what I
was.
You were doing a great job, Iwas 19.
Yeah, you were doing a greatjob, you were young.
Yeah, they sent me in there andmaybe in love too.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, they sent me in there to make sure that you
were doing it right though theywere like Ben's kind of green,
can you get in there and makesure he's doing what he's doing?
And I was like, yeah, cause Ibring administration and all the
things and you're five years myelder, so you knew what was
going on.
Thanks for telling everybody.
Sorry, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
I outed you.
Yeah, thanks, but anyways.
So I'm up there and I'm givingthe offertory and I'm saying,
hey, you guys, we shouldn't giveunder compulsion.
We basically just word for wordthis verse and then at the end,
the pastor at the time ran upto the stage.
Right after.
Well, if you want to give undercompulsion, we totally will
(08:46):
take that too, and so I was justlike it just fell really flat.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
We're like whoa geez, that's the Lord.
And the people who were in thataudience even were like ooh
that wasn't right.
They were like no, that's notwhat the scripture says, like
you literally just spoke againstthe scripture, right, right?
So anyway, we had an eyeopeningexperience.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah and I.
But I think that's kind ofindicative of the culture we
live in.
It's like we think about givingto get instead of being a
cheerful giver Absolutely RightLike we were so focused on the
reward oh, if we're going togive, we'll get back in return,
and that I think, a lot of timesis our motivation and I know
I've even felt like that attimes.
I'm like well, I'm going to giveyou know, so that way God will
(09:25):
bless me.
It's like, no, don't give undercompulsion, don't give
reluctantly, and I also think,don't give so that you can just
get something back.
Give from a cheerful heart.
Yes, yes, have joy in yourgiving.
Yes, and I think there's someother verses we can do, like
Proverbs 11, 24, 25.
One person gives freely, yetgains even more.
(09:46):
Another withholds unduly andcomes to poverty.
A generous person will prosper.
Whoever refreshes others willbe refreshed, and so that's that
principle, yeah, and I lovethat.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Whoever refreshes others will be refreshed.
That is a principle, yeah,especially for those.
And I just want to say, becausethis is talking about finances,
right, this is what it'stalking about finances, but also
I think that crosses over intoI'm just thinking of those who
are loving others.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
If you're refreshing others, then you will be
refreshed right, it's a promisethat the Lord is giving.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
It's a promise.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Right, yeah, right.
And again, like we don't givejust to get back Right.
But there is that promise ofthe Lord, like you know, and
even in Malachi, right.
Like the principle of the tithe.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Right, there's a testing in it.
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And that's, like I think, the only place in the
Bible where the Lordspecifically says test me in
this.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
And I want to say test them, yeah, because we've
tested him.
Yeah, we have.
We have with our finances, withour tithing, and it has been
every good thing that has comethrough this house.
We know it has been from theLord.
We know it's been at his goodmeasure that he's done it.
It's not 100%.
Not because of us.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Not because of us Not because, we marketed ourselves
or our businesses the right wayor done all the things right.
In fact, we've done a lot ofthings wrong.
Absolutely One thing that wehave been pretty consistent, and
I don't have to say I don'tknow what our track record is
because I haven't tracked itthroughout our whole marriage,
but we've tried to be verydiligent on tithing, because we
knew that that was somethingthat the Lord takes a look at
(11:16):
and he asks us to test him inthis.
And so again, not that we givejust because we want to get back
, but we give because we believeGod's faithful.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
We know God's faithful.
We know God's faithful.
You know, we don't just believeit.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
We know it, we know yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
And we are so thankful he's faithful.
Yeah, because we're not.
Yeah, this is true, this istrue.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
We failed a ton.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
And I think Acts 20, 35 sums it up to receive.
So when we do, when we doconnect with God's heart about
giving like there is such ablessing that comes back and so.
I think we can go into some ofthat brain science-y stuff that
talks about some of what happenswhen we do give.
There's some really cool things.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yes, and it's so funny because that scripture I
feel like most people know itand quote it, even non-believers
.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, yeah, it's more blessed to give
than to receive.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, yeah for sure yeah.
It's more blessed to give thanto receive.
Yeah, so, but what's crazy is?
There's science.
There is, and this is whatyou're about to jump into Get
ready guys.
Ben's pulling out a science hat.
Yeah, we're going to go alittle science-y.
He's got his science glasses on.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
My clear glasses, His clear glasses.
So one of the things that we'regoing to talk about is a
helper's high.
So what happens is like when wegive or when we serve it
activates the brain's rewardcenter and it releases dopamine
and endorphins.
And I have to say I have anexample of this.
There was one time where I wasgetting into the sport of
(12:40):
mountain biking.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Oh, this is a cool story.
You guys, this is a great story.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And so I was looking online and it was back when we
didn't have a lot of disposableincome.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
No, we didn't, and my wife being the amazing person,
she is she bought me this bike?
Off of eBay.
I scrimped and saved and keptmy birthday money and my
Christmas money.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
You pulled off something amazing I did.
I saved Because I was like whoawhat the heck I did.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I saved Because I was like whoa what the heck.
I know I bought what you wanted, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
You got what I wanted .
I was really floored.
I was so happy to have thisbike.
I was riding it all the time.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yes, you were.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
My friends were looking at it thinking like, wow
, that's so cool.
It was a full suspensionmountain bike and it was used,
but it was still.
It was a fun bike.
It was just a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
You got lost on that bike.
I did.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, I ended up somewhere.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
In another state.
He ended up in another state.
That's another story.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
But anyways, I really enjoyed that bike.
All that to say, and it wasfrom you, it was special.
Yeah, I had a great time withit.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I rode with some buddies.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
We just had a blast oh yeah, and all of a sudden I
have a dream.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yep, which is very rare for Ben.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, I'm not a huge dreamer.
It happens on occasion, acouple times a year, where I'll
remember something realsignificant, but this time it
was like a real, vivid dream.
Yes, in the dream, one of myfriends.
I looked at him and I just knewthat I was supposed to give my
bike to this friend.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
And he was a missionary?
Yeah, he was a missionary.
Yeah, he didn't have any moneyreally.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
And and then it like, and it was.
It wasn't like a super, superdetailed dream, but it was just
that part was really vivid to meand that just kind of came like
more and more each day.
I was like feeling like, man, Ithink I should really do this.
And I and I came before you andI was like hey, what do you
think about this?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, and I don't remember exactly what you told
me.
Do you remember what you said?
I was like, if you are feelingthe Lord is telling you to do
this, then you better obey him.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Because to me things are things.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Like it's okay.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
You know, the Bible says you have two cloaks, give
one.
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Exactly that you were like, so okay with me just
giving it to him Because.
I mean it was a big deal foryou to get it.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
It was a big deal for me to receive it.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Like you know, it was just so special, and so I gave
my friend the bike.
And he as soon as I told himthat what I was doing and what
I'd give him.
He was like whoa, no way, noway.
He had had a dream and in thedream, I gave him the bike.
This is the crazy part yes, andso it was really cool.
His name is Dave, and hopefullyI don't spoil my reward and him
(15:07):
for telling that story, but Ithink the cool thing about it
was like God directed me to givehim the bike and directed him
to receive it and it was justthis really cool thing.
I was like I was on thishelper's high phenomenon.
I was just on cloud nine.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I don't know how else to describe it, knowing that
like the Lord had orchestratedit, orchestrated it, and then I
did it, and he felt so much loveto receive it.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
And it was just like whoa.
This is amazing feeling andhe's a neat, neat guy.
Yeah, he's married and he livesin another nation.
Yeah, yeah, he does.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Building a family.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
And building a family and and and two, he knew like
where we were at, evenfinancially, and that he's like
you have a family, you know, buthe like totally loved it and he
knew how much you loved thatbike because you went biking
with him yeah but his bike wasnot good ever yeah, his was
really old and, um, yeah, hejust he really appreciated it
yeah and, uh, it was so cool,it's so cool, just that you know
, I got to have that thatexperience and feel the way that
(16:07):
I did Now did you get anotherbike.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I can't remember what happened.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I'm sure I did at some point, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
I think your business started taking off when we had
more finance, and so then youwere able to get what you wanted
.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah, it was right around the same time that I was
going out on my own and therewas more finances Trying to
remember exactly.
Yeah, remember exactly yeah,yep, yeah.
But so other studies show thatgiving money to others produces
more happiness than spending iton ourselves.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
So that's a 2008 study.
Yes, ubc, yeah, and that'sreally cool, right, like you
actually become more happyspending on others than you do
yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yes, yes, yes.
I say yes.
Now, some people don't havethat as a love gift.
I say yes Now some people don'thave that as a love gift.
Right Giving, yeah, yeah, yeah,love language, yeah, it's true,
so it might be harder for somepeople to do that.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
It might be harder, but I think the principle still
applies, whether it's your giftor not.
Like if you can learn to be agiver, I think you will unlock
parts of not only your heart butalso, I think, the way that God
intends you to live Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
But there is a spiritual gift that's giving.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
There is, yeah, that's like a whole nother
category, that's like a wholenother thing.
I don't know that if I had that, I don't know.
Well, if you've ever beenaround somebody who has the gift
of giving, it is Usuallythey're very wealthy Because
they normally show love bygiving you gifts.
And it's like they give andthen the Lord keeps blessing
them.
And they give and then the Lordkeeps blessing them.
(17:28):
It's mind-blowing.
I've seen that principle withpeople that are unsaved.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Oh, it's a universal principle.
I think so.
I think it is.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, I think it doesn't matter if you are a
believer or not, If you operatein some level of that.
There's just something that isa reward principle that I think
God dishonors.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
It's like a law, yeah , isn't it?
It is, it's crazy.
So anyway, test a minute.
It is crazy.
Test a minute One more thingtoo.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
MRI studies show that altruistic behavior, so like
giving and loving and giving ofyourself, activates the same
pathways as receiving rewards.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
So it's funny.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
It's like that's cool , yeah, it's like giving is
almost similar brain functionsas receiving that's amazing so
like you know, like we all wantto be blessed, we all want to
receive.
Try giving you never know thatmight activate some of the same
kind of mental activity.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Another thing in 2013,.
Jama pediatrics found thatvolunteering improves
cardiovascular health and lowersblood pressure.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
I think that is so wise.
Can I just jump in here realquick and just say you know, I
was speaking with a mom who's arecent empty nester and she's
having to redefine her life andshe's having to redefine where
her focus has been.
She is actually two differentmoms I'm thinking of in this.
Last week I've had thisconversation and what do I do
now?
(18:51):
My children don't need me likethey needed me.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
That's a big change.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Uh-huh, big change, and so we discuss volunteering,
putting it in your schedule, andyou think about some of these
ones that live to be into their80s and 90s.
I'm thinking of yourgrandmother that lived to be 94.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
She volunteered a lot .
Speaker 2 (19:09):
She volunteered at the local hospital.
I mean she was even up therewith her walker when she had hip
surgery.
I mean, your grandmother andmany of those ladies have lived
to be really well high intotheir life because there's an
endorphin.
That's there and they're livingfor something.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
There is and you bring up a good point.
This is not in the notes, butthere's what these are called
blue zones around the world,which is where people live over
a hundred and more frequencythan any other parts of the
world, and so they're all over.
There's spots in Japan, I think,there's one on the West Coast
of California.
There's some in Japan, I thinkthere's one on the West Coast of
California, there's some inSouth America, but a lot of
(19:48):
these places, these people livein community, strong community,
and that seems to correlate withlongevity.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yes, people living older.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yes, and then they also look at some of the
altruistic behaviors and a lotof them have that built into
their culture, where it's agiving culture and they are
living for other people and theytake care of other people, yep.
So yeah, I think that's reallyimportant.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Isn't that interesting?
I mean it can increase yourlifespan.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
In fact, there's another study out there that
shows you actually have a 24%lower mortality rate if you're a
regular volunteer.
So this goes exactly with whatyou're saying that's why your
grandmother lifted both of yourgrandmothers actually.
Yeah, I married into a goodfamily yeah.
You know, another thing of ittoo is like when we give, we
(20:37):
actually break something calledthe scarcity mindset.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Oh, absolutely.
So this is another kind of likebrain science-y thing.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
It's the paradox of generosity the more you give,
the more enough you feel youhave, that's right.
Which I think is kind of that'skind of unique, like that's
actual studies that show rightthat principle happening.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
It's like upside down backwards, exactly Inside out,
yeah, happening.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
It's like upside down backwards, exactly Inside out,
yeah, thinking it is, and justthrough that abundance
perspective right, you allowyour brain to kind of change the
way that you perceive thingsand you even perceive your
surroundings.
So it's just amazing when youcome at things with the concept
of having enough to give, youcan actually start to rewire the
(21:24):
way that you perceive your ownexperiences and things that are
going on in your life Like youcan even help you change and be
able to see a more positiveoutcome.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
It's amazing.
It is, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I think a lot of it too is because when you give it
shifts your brain from thatsympathetic nervous system the
fight or flight more into theparasympathetic, which is the
rest and digest.
So when you're giving you'reautomatically like getting out
of that fight or flight andgoing into the rest and digest.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I love that.
I love to be, rest and digest.
I like good food too Well yeah,that, yes, you do, you enjoy it.
You're a foodie.
But I'm just thinking aboutthat scarcity mindset and you
know, sometimes I remember whenI was growing up and you know,
if you don't know, we grew upwithout, we really didn't have
(22:12):
finance, but a lot of times mydad would say we are the richest
people on earth and we wouldgive, we were giving to those
around us.
I mean, my dad was a mechanicby trade and so he would fix
single moms their vehicles forfree, or they would like bring
you know something, bread thatthey baked or something like
that.
That's all they had, and youknow that was in this time, but
(22:33):
what we had, we were sharing,and I just think that you know
there is something in thereabout that.
There's always more.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
That mindset.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
That mindset and we have our Heavenly Father.
Yes, it is bountiful.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yes, unlimited resources.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Unlimited resources.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
And I think, when we're holding and clutching on
and we're not releasing andgiving you cannot take it with
you, right?
Speaker 1 (22:58):
You can't.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And we're just a steward of what's His anyway.
Yeah, so we're just a stewardof what's his anyway.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
So we want to be able to release that and just be
just a manager.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yes, of his finance.
Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
A hundred and four percent.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
A hundred and ten percent.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Oh, you're going to raise me even more, raising the
stakes A thousand percent.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Okay, okay, I yield Okay, but so we had a crazy
story, okay.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I know which one you're sharing that happened to
us.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yes, and super unique because we felt the Lord speak
to us individually Yep Praying.
And so there was a family thatcame across our radar and they
were in need.
It was like one of those likecrisis moments, right when the
body needs needed to step in.
And so I felt like there wassome of that, like we felt like
(23:45):
compelled to help this familybecause they were our friends
and we just knew they needed thehelp.
But then, all of a sudden, Ifelt the Lord speak to me about
a certain number, and it was.
It was a big number, and I was,oh shoot, well, I'm going to do
this.
Like Liz is going to have to beon board.
Like Liz is going to have tohear something too.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Absolutely.
And we have an understanding.
A lot of times we had beenpracticing this.
I want everybody to know thatwe've been doing this along, all
along in our marriage, where wewould you know, something would
come up and we would pray and alot of times we would get the
same amount.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
And or we both would hear from the Lord.
Yes, give, you need to begiving.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Or even move, or move .
I remember that was a move onetoo.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Well, I mean a lot of things.
So we had been building ourmuscle so to speak faith muscle
and trusting the Lord to speakto the other.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
That would have been perfect.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
No, but trusting the Lord to speak to the other when
one felt something.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
And you know, let's be clear, our finances are the
Lord's anyway, and the increasethat we have had in our
businesses, is because of him.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
And so we're just managing it.
You know, and I want to saythis You're like, our bills are
always paid.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
You know it's amazing .
And so when you came to me andyou said, hey, I know, and I'm
like, yes, we're supposed togive, and then you're like, well
, I need you to pray about anamount because I feel like the
Lord dropped an amount in myheart, and I was like okay, and
uh, and I kind of poopooed it.
I was like whatever, likewhatever.
Can I just say that I don't?
Speaker 1 (25:23):
know if I had enough faith to go first, so I made you
go first, yes, so so it hadbeen like a week and we were
traveling.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, ironically, we were traveling and we had just
made a pit stop and and, um, and, and I was a little bit more on
the grumpier side and um, Ican't remember.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Is now a good time to talk about how much to kiss?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, why you brought it up then?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I don't know, I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
But we're in our big travel van and you say you know
we're supposed to give, and Iwas like yeah.
And you're like, well, did youever like in a snarky little way
did you ever pray about theamount?
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Like you go first.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah, yeah, and I was like no, and, and I was like no
, I didn't.
And then the Lord, like, in hiskindness, was like I told you
the amount because when youfirst said it to me I felt like
the Lord gave me a number rightthen.
And I didn't like the number.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
And I was like that can't even be the Lord.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Like that is the biggest amount that we've ever
given in our marriage ever ever,ever.
And so when you said to meafter you know, we I was
supposed to be praying about itfor a week, I forgot about it
and didn't want to talk about itreally.
And so here I am in one ofthese moods and and you're like
well, have you prayed about it?
And I was like no.
And then the Lord likeimmediately quickened your heart
(26:30):
, yeah, quickened in my heartand he was like, uh, that's not
true.
I told you.
And he said and I told you, gofirst.
Yeah, I said I said, well,actually the Lord did tell me an
amount.
And, um, I felt him drop it inmy heart and and you're like,
well, what is it Tell me?
And I was like I don't want totell you.
(26:50):
He goes, you have to tell me.
And I said I don't want to tellyou and I'm not going to tell
you how long this went on.
I was like, and plus we havelistening ears behind us too,
Like there's kids right behindus.
So I'm like trying to, soanyway I say it.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
You say the amount I say the amount.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
And then I go dang it , we gotta give it.
And then goes dang it, liz, nowwe gotta give it.
And I was like what?
You got the same number.
He's like yes.
I said oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
But then we had like a holy fear and I was like we
better, but it wasn't funnyanymore.
It's like oh crap, we need todo this yeah the lord
specifically spoke to both youand I we felt like you know we
should do this, and it's a lotwe.
We had the means to do it, butwe had to like kind of like pull
from places we normally don'ttouch, and so it was.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
It was a sacrifice, really, it was it was a
sacrifice to give, and you know,and we did, yeah, but then we
got to see that bless someoneand that man, I mean I can
almost start crying.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
It's like you saw how important it was for that
family to receive that gift.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
And they never knew it was us yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
They never knew and hopefully they won't ever find
out.
But you know, even if they do,it doesn't matter.
I think it was like weapproached it with the right
heart and we, we did itcheerfully, even though
reluctantly.
I mean, I have to admit like Iwas a little bit reluctant at
first, I was like dang, that isa, that's a large amount I'm
really going to like it's reallygoing to stretch us and it did,
but we can still do it Like wefeel like the Lord is faithful
(28:15):
in this and we know that.
You know he wants to dosomething in our own lives and
it was amazing to be able to seeit really touch someone.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
And partner yeah.
That's true, not only with theLord, but partner together.
With them, yeah, with you, andit built a stronger bond between
you and I.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
It really did.
Yeah, you're right.
I mean, that was unbelievable.
It was.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
It was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Of course, course, your response was unbelievable,
and so was mine, but you know,we're human, our humanity was
coming out.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
We're human.
It's like, oh no, like you know, people like test god well it
isn't always fun right, but itis stretching.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
It's stretching, but it is.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
It's amazing, and so that's a I'm glad you brought
that story up.
That's a good story it was.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
I mean, it's just so it was so wonderful to see you
know, know again that helper'shigh.
Like it was like man I get todo this.
Like I get to partner with theLord and I get to give and I
even get to see.
Sometimes we don't get to seeright Like sometimes we just
have to give and just the trustthat the Lord's going to take
care and you know it's going toit's going to meet the need.
(29:23):
But we actually got to see theneed being met and you know we
were we were um most of themlooking for like we were
anonymous, yeah, and so that wasreally cool being able to see
it and the person was likerejoicing like oh, I wonder who
that was.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
So that was, yeah, it was fun, it was super fun,
super duper fun.
Yeah, good, good story, goodstory so some takeaways here,
some practical takeaways allright all right, uh, there's a
book called the TreasurePrinciple by Randy Alcorn.
Great book, you guys Great book.
Highly recommend getting it.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
I want to go through the six little principles that
are in his book, because I feellike this is super applicable
and it's the right mindset whenyou want to cultivate a cheerful
giver's heart.
Can I?
Speaker 2 (29:56):
say the first one.
You can definitely.
Okay, you can say all of them.
Oh good, okay, great.
Number one is God ownseverything.
I'm just his money manager.
I said that earlier.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
You did, I did.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
So that is the truth.
He owns it all.
He owns the cattle on athousand hills.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
He owns I mean like, practically, what does that mean
?
Does that mean like we need touse a resource for deciding
where the money goes?
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I think so.
I do think so, and I think alsothat when we were using him, so
to speak, as a resource, we putit in our budget, we recognize
it.
When there's increase, we askthe Lord what do you want us to
do with it?
It doesn't just mean that allthe time you're putting in
stocks and bonds and you'resquirreling it away.
That is very important.
We want to.
(30:39):
We want to be mindful of ourfinances and you and I being
entrepreneurs, we know we haveto have so much um in our
reserve in case there's adrought which there has been,
and so, but also, too, whenthere is there is the um
increase, we have anunderstanding and when a need
arises, maybe that money's putaside and we're like okay, so
(31:01):
that money is supposed to gothere, and so being diligent in
that, but recognizing that we'rejust his managers and it's so
because I grew up.
I grew up on the other end,where if we were going to give
to others, it was mayberesources we had or time
volunteering, things like that,we never could give money.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
That's important.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
We could never give money when I was growing up.
However, because of the kind offamily I grew up in, we
received people obeying the Lordand giving finance.
Or you know buying ourgroceries or putting gas in my
mom's car.
You know paying for her breaksor for her.
You know my dad or whatever itmay be, you know for the
materials breaks, or for her youknow my dad or whatever it may
be.
you know for the materials tomake that happen, and so, being
(31:44):
on the other end of that, I knowwhat it's like to receive and.
I also know when it's like whatit's like when you don't have
the money for the electric billand your, your power is about to
be turned off.
I mean, there was one time wecouldn't pay our electric bill
and we didn't have electricityfor two weeks, two, two weeks,
wow, two, whole weeks, wow, yeah.
And out of the kindness ofsomeone's heart, heard about it
and gave and paid that bill, andso you know, I know what that's
(32:05):
like to be on the other side,and for some people it's just
like, well, it's just a couplehundred dollars.
I don't know what good it woulddo, but it could be.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Massive, massive.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
And so we the Lord talks about the woman who came
in the Bible with her two mites,and how precious that was.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
So it doesn't matter the amount.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Right, I think it's the heart and the posture.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Okay, so number two.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Well, that's pretty much it.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Number two yeah, number two, the heart always
goes where I put God's money.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yes, that's important , like your treasure will be
where your heart will be, whereyour treasure is.
Yeah, so you, yeah, you, justyou gotta like use that
principle Right, and that's howyou can kind of direct your
heart.
Absolutely Right, it's almostputting the cart before the
horse.
You know, it's like I'm goingto give, even if my heart's not
in it, and then watch whathappens.
So, yeah, I mean, I feel likewe're not always perfect in how
(33:04):
we we, you know come acrossgiving opportunities, but the
times where we've really like,just felt the Lord and we
decided, you know we're, we'regoing to do this and be
unselfish.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Like man.
I can't tell you how many timesyour heart just comes alive
when you partner with them inthat and I want to say too, like
when you're giving, you have toput hands off of it Like you,
really no strings attached andyou and I kind of have that
understanding of somebody comesto us and they say, hey, can I
borrow money?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
You and I will talk about it and we'll pray and
we'll be in agreeance, and thenwe give them the money.
And if they want to pay it back, they can.
But we're now, don't y'allstart coming to us asking us for
money.
Okay, but we will say this is agift.
this is a gift to you and also,when we give, we don't want to
say hey, there's stringsattached to it.
You have to take this money anduse it the way that we think.
(33:55):
Now, if there is an issuethat's there and you know that
maybe there's substance abuse orsomething like that, just go
pay their bill for them, go paytheir rent for them.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Like you know, there's benevolence.
Do what they need.
Yeah, Do what they need.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
There's benevolence ministries at lots of churches
and they have oftentimesbenevolence pastors and they do
these exact things.
But you know, be smart with it,exactly.
Be a manager.
Yeah, be smart with it Allright, what's number three?
Oh, heaven, not earth, is myhome.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Okay, so having that heavenly perspective, that's
super important giving.
Yes, right, because reallywe're just talking about a short
little time on earth and areally really, really, really,
really long time in heaven, andso obviously, the priority is
yeah.
Eternity.
Obviously, the priority iseternity.
So, like the things that we doon earth that affect eternity,
like we have to be locked in onthose things.
(34:39):
Like the things that we do onearth that affect eternity, like
we have to be locked in onthose things.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
And this affects eternity, it does.
The Lord is watching Right.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
He asked, like you know, and like even in I believe
it's Matthew, where he's asked,like the people that are before
him, asking Lord, when did wesee you hungry?
When?
Speaker 2 (34:56):
did we see you thirsty?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
You know, it's like when you did the least unto the
least of these my brothers, andso like we have to keep in mind.
Yeah, like our giving is notjust about that person or about
us, it's also about the Lord.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
We're giving it unto the Lord.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
So yeah, eternity is super important, not earth is
also about the Lord.
That's right.
We're giving unto the Lord.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
So, yeah, eternity is super important.
Heaven, not earth, is my home.
Yeah.
And number four, I think, iskind of a similar concept I
should live not for the dot butfor the line, and obviously the
dot representing earth, the linerepresenting eternity, so good.
And then, number five giving isthe only antidote to
materialism.
We live in a very materialisticculture.
I mean, I admit I'mmaterialistic.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I'm not going to say anything.
I'm taking deep breaths overhere.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Speaking of my upbringing, yeah, I think I just
have some tendencies where,like, if I think I need it, I'll
just go out and get it, andit's like whoa slow down, okay.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
So today we ran into Ben's cousin and he said we were
talking about something.
Oh, we told him we have goats,and he goes oh, ben the idea man
.
And I go, you're right.
He goes, yeah, ben's alwaysbeen an idea man.
I go, you're right.
And then he goes he also is athing man.
This guy has everything.
He's like Ben.
What was that recent thing youhad that I couldn't believe you
(36:08):
owned?
Yeah, because he needed it,needed it, and you let him
borrow it and it was like acamera.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, it was a, it was a little camera that like a
snake?
Yeah, it's like a snake camerayou use it to go and figure out
little, small spaces and getvisibility into what's there,
and so he needed one, and I hadone, of course uh-huh, of course
he goes.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
You know, ben always ben's, just that guy always has
it.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
So yeah, anyway but anyway, so I but anyway.
So I'm trying to get better atthat.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
You are.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Not always just satisfy every desire.
Where I think I need something,but actually pray about it,
consult you.
That's been a hard one.
I feel like I'm finally gettingover, realizing that there's
another person that I have toask besides myself.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Two decades later 20 years.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Some people are slow learners, but anyways.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
No, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Giving is really the only antidote to materialism.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
I feel like when you give it's so counterculture.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
It is.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
It's so about not yourself, hopefully, if you're
doing it with a chill for heartand you're doing it as unto the
Lord and you really just you'refocusing on that person, one
receiving the gift.
And I mean we live in a selfishculture, we live in a
materialistic culture.
When you're giving, you'regoing against that.
So it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
It's good, it's good, all right.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Number six Number six Go for it.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
God prospers me not to raise my standard of living,
but to raise my standard ofgiving.
That's why he prospers you.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
And we've seen it in our life.
We have, yeah, we haven't.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, it's amazing to be able to help people in need.
Yes, you know, it's just.
It's so cool.
It's so cool to be able to seethere's a pattern, even in our
giving, where certainindividuals have come across
like a type of individual.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yes, yes, and you know what I'm talking about.
I do.
I don't want to say justbecause no, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
But anyways.
So there's a certain type ofindividual that comes across our
radar and we just feel likewe're supposed to give to these
type of people and it is so.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
It's an assignment.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
It's fascinating.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
It's really fascinating because even people
who interact with us in materialmeans are these type of people,
and I know I'm being cryptichere, so just work with me, but
it's just fascinating.
The Lord really loves a certainpeople group, and those people
groups are the ones that have noother means have no other way
to support themselves and theyhave no other way to ever repay
(38:29):
us.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, exactly that.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
And so when we focus in, for whatever reason, that's
just been what the Lord's askedus to focus on.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
We like doing it in secret.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
And man, there's such a reward, yes, there's such a
reward and being able to say,hey, we help those type of
people.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
But they don't even know.
They don't even know.
Yeah, it's amazing, it's superfun, it's super fun.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
It's, it's almost.
You just have to try it, justhave to take our word for it.
See, see how it goes so okay,those are some of the six steps
that were in that book.
What about just some practicalsteps to cultivate a cheerful
giver's heart, like where do youstart with this right?
Let's say, like, maybe you'vebeen a little bit more
materialistic or you've beenselfish and you know, like me,
(39:09):
you're trying to figure out howto break out of that.
So so where do you start?
Where do you go from here?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Well, I would say our number one is start where you
are.
Yeah, consistency matters morethan amount.
Yeah, especially when it comesto tithing Habits, right Like
developing that habit of giving.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
And just putting it in your budget, putting it in
your schedule, knowing that, hey, I need to build this muscle of
giving.
I got to start somewhere.
I might as well, start smalland just make it a habit.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Right, and I was just thinking how, in other cultures
that you know, even otherfaiths.
I'm just thinking of Judaism.
When a Jewish person is goingto the Holy Land and they're
going to go on a trip, a lot oftimes people that are in their
synagogue will give themenvelopes of cash and the reason
they give it to them is to havethat person who's going.
(40:00):
They take that cash and whenthey're walking through the
streets in Jerusalem, say to theTemple Mount or wherever
they're going, they're handingit all out to the beggars.
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
I know and so-.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
It's not even for them.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
They're giving them money.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yeah, to be able to give to other people.
Yes, to give away, and becausethey recognize it as a blessing,
I love that.
Yeah, and so anyway, just thatconsistency.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
It will become a part of your muscle.
Yeah, I love that You'restrengthening that.
I love that.
Yeah, number two, practice Oohso good as a blessing.
And pointing out the thingsthat you have, not the things
that you don't have.
That's right, right.
And then focusing on, likemaybe even how to figure out how
to start giving out of thatright, like there's again, when
(41:01):
you're giving, you realize thatyou have enough, Like there's
that brain science that comesinto that, that exercise of
being able to give you start tothink, oh, I actually do have
enough.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
I do have more than I need, and I was thinking
something that you and I do.
We go on walks prettyfrequently, and when we go on
our walks we kind of do thisthing where it's like a
gratitude walk.
Yeah, as we're walking, we juststart we point out the things
we just start pointing out allthe things that we're thankful
for, all the things we're givingour gratitude to the Lord and
and there's so much in gratitude, and how powerful that is when
we have a thankful, gratefulheart.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
You know, I just keep thinking about the children of
Israel that were stuck in thedesert for 40 years and they
were so close to the Holy Land.
They were so close but becausethey were complaining and
basically like yelling at God,saying why did you take us out
of Egypt where we could havewhatever we wanted?
Now we're eating this and that,and so the Lord kept him in the
desert for 40 years.
And I just think about if ourkids are coming to us with
(42:00):
thankfulness and gratefulnessand their hearts of gratitude,
we are more wanting to blessthem when they come to us and
like we loved it when we wentout as a family and got ice
cream.
It makes us want to do ice creamagain as parents, and so we
have a heavenly father, Abba,Papa, God, you know, you hear
all these terms right.
And so when we havethankfulness and gratefulness
(42:23):
and we are saying those thingsto the Lord, oh my gosh, it
unlocks our hearts and it helpsus to be able to get the right
perspective and it kills thatscarcity mindset it really does
or that disgruntled complainingmindset yeah.
So I'm all about that, woo.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Love it.
Here's a.
Here's another practical.
Make giving decisions togetheras a couple or family.
If you're married or have afamily like, invite your people
into the giving decision.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
It's so good because, then they get to be a part of
the story too, and they get tosee how it unfolds.
It's an adventure, it is and youknow, even like, we have a
couple of orphans that wesupport as a family and so it's
been neat for the kids to seethese kids that we support
around the world and they're indifferent locations.
And Ben, in case you guys don'tknow, he's like a big softie.
(43:13):
He really, really is.
He's a big softie, but bringingthe kids into that has been so
good because we're instillingthat into them and we pray that
they continue it on as adultswhen they're parents with their
kids, because there's alwaysneed in the earth and we get to
partner with the Lord on this.
Yes, we do.
We get to partner with him.
Yeah, we get to partner withhim, so fun.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
And the last point we have here is just building,
giving into your budget rightSet it as a priority, not as an
afterthought.
And we talk with our kids aboutthe five buckets of finance.
We talk about spending, saving,investing, giving and tithing,
and so that's just one of thosebuckets right.
We know the tithe is kind of anautomatic thing, right?
(43:56):
The 10%, but consider giving andalso consider putting that in
as a percentage base, right?
So as your income grows, yourgiving grows and it's just kind
of a natural thing.
So those are some practicalsteps with just how to get
started right where you are andif you're not tithing, obviously
you to do that first, likethat's not even considered
giving, that's just kind of likeyour duty.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
So this is like the joy of the giving piece where
it's like going beyond.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
But yeah, I mean obviously like you got to start
somewhere.
If you're not tithing, trytithing, Test God in that he
even says it.
That's Malachi.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
And even if it's two mites, yeah, exactly two little
pennies.
Yeah, gotta start somewhere so,but what comes?
Speaker 1 (44:37):
what do we get back?
What is the?
Speaker 2 (44:38):
what is the reward?
What do we get back?
What?
Speaker 1 (44:41):
do we get back, we get joy yes and I think we get a
joy that even transcends ourcircumstances absolutely right,
it's just something that's likeyeah, I mean gosh.
I definitely want a joy thattranscends circumstances.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Absolutely, and I feel like giving.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
is that pathway to that?
We have freedom from money'sgrip on our hearts.
Absolutely so when we're giving, we're free.
We're free from thatmaterialism.
When we're giving, we'remodeling the kingdom values for
our kids.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
So that's a huge one, especially when you're
partnering and when you're doingas a family and you're bringing
them into it and you'reinviting them into it.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yeah, that's massive, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
And then also this can't be understated when you're
giving, you're actually gettingeternal treasures.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Things that you don't even know about and that are
going to blow our minds ineternity.
Well, and if we can just pauseon this for a second, because I
know, for a long time, when Iwas growing up, I just could not
wrap my head around eternaltreasures.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
I was like well, yeah , what are those?
And?
Speaker 2 (45:42):
why does it even matter?
And it was like, well, here Ihave this need on earth.
And it was almost like, oh yeah, but I'll get to be with Jesus.
He's the only treasure thatI'll need, right, and?
But as I've gotten older andI've studied it a little bit
more, what I am understanding isthat it's not.
Yes, I w we will be with him.
It's going to be amazing.
I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
It's going to be glorious.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Um, however, he has gifts that he wants to give and
it brings him joy to give youthe gifts and the treasures that
you've stored up in heaven thathe has seen.
That's so crazy.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Right and Matthew?
He tells us point blank do notstore up for yourselves
treasures on earth but store upfor yourself treasures in heaven
, and so that's a command right.
So getting into that mindsetyou're talking about, that's
massive Thinking about what wedo as being an investment into
treasure in heaven and notshrinking away from that but
(46:39):
like hey, this is cool.
This is going to reap dividendseternally.
I'm going to be excited aboutthis gift, whatever it is
whatever this eternal treasureis.
I'm going to really like itbecause Jesus told me that this
is what we should do.
This is what we shouldprioritize.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Absolutely.
Yeah, so that's so cool, I'mgoing to really like it, because
Jesus told me that this is whatwe should do.
This is what we shouldprioritize.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Absolutely.
Yeah, so that's so cool.
Yeah, so good, so good.
And then what's the last one,ben, last one.
Romans 12 to this is do not beconformed to the patterns of
this world, but be transformedby the renewing of our mind.
I think giving is one of thosethings that helps renew our mind
.
It's just one of thoseprinciples.
It's in the word and we need tobe transformed by the word.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
Transformed.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Yeah, but when we give, I think there's actually a
transformation that takes placeand I think it helps renew our
mind.
It helps us to break frommaterialism.
It helps us to focus on our owncircumstances.
There's brain science behind itthat talks about things being
unlocked, our reward center andour brain.
I mean, there's just so manycool things that happen when you
give.
It's just part of that renewingof our mind.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
It's part of it, it's freedom.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
It is.
It's freedom.
For you, it's freedom, yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
It's freedom for you and we I cannot say enough we
get to partner with the Lord.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
It's so cool.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yeah, it.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
It's so cool.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
And on top of that we get eternal rewards.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Well, yes, that part, too, is cool, absolutely,
absolutely.
I love everything that we justtalked about.
It's a fun topic.
It is a fun topic.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
We've had a lot of joy in it and we want to
encourage anybody just to go forit.
You know, like to change thatperspective because it really is
freeing.
There's so much that comes withit and I think at the end of
the day, God loves a cheerfulgiver.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Learning how to be cheerful in our giving is so
important.
He loves that and he's justsmiling on all of us.
He really is.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
He's not standing there with a big stick as you're
giving pennies and smacking you.
Yeah, you didn't give enough.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
And I was just thinking of some of my history
of giving with the Lord and backwhen I was like single and
waiting tables and when I was amissionary and you know, out in
the mission field and barely hadany money, and the Lord would
whisper to my heart, I want youto give this money.
And it'd be like you know well,I was going to use that to go,
you know, get a haircut orsomething, and then the Lord
(48:49):
would provide somebody who wouldcut my hair for me for free and
because I and do a better jobthan what I would have ever paid
.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
I mean, there's so many, there's just so many
stories I can't even.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Begin.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Yeah, and even even thinking beyond just giving
financially, giving of your time, giving of your things, like
there's just, there's so much inthat concept of giving that we
just relegate to finances.
But if you can be a, giver atrue giver and you can be
cheerful in that there's so manyways to do that, to see that,
(49:21):
come to life, even outside offinances, Absolutely Right.
So so good.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Yeah, and I just want to say too, as we're talking
about this, that I'm just goingto bring this caution that there
have been families that we'veknown that maybe one spouse is
more of a giver than the otherand they're giving away, like
the mortgage payment and youknow all those things, and so we
would say that you know, makesure that your bills are paid
(49:49):
and you're on the same, yeah, onthe same page, moving forward.
Now that doesn't mean if theLord says to both of you I want
you to empty your bank accountsout, that you don't do that.
You absolutely do what the Lordis saying to do.
But you need to be on the samepage and you don't want to be
evicted from your house becauseyou gave it all away.
Be smart, be a manager of it,but put it in your diet as well.
(50:12):
So I think there's extremes onboth sides.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
There is yeah, but I never.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
I rarely see the extreme that I just shared.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Yes, I don't think I've ever.
I'm thinking of one couple.
Okay, yeah, one couple, yeah.
And that was going on and wesee lots of misers.
Yeah, yeah, is definitely onthe side of the misers, yeah
yeah, yeah, but anyway, I justwanted to throw that out there
in case there was anybody thatwas like well.
Elizabeth maybe.
Yeah, make sure your kids eat.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Yeah like make sure they're eating, make sure you
like bills paid Right exactly,be a good steward.
Be a good steward, and you know,we have always in our marriage
we've always tried to be a goodsteward of everything God's
given us.
And even when we've had emptyrooms, you know we've always the
Lord's filled them, and youknow if we've made extra.
You know, I mean, just all of asudden it's like oh gosh, we
(51:00):
have all this soup and so wegive it to a neighbor and then
we find out the neighbor has nofood.
I mean just like, not becausethey couldn't get it but just
because they were traveling orwhatever, and it's just unique
to see how God will orchestratethe things.
(51:20):
Listening to him and lettinghim direct.
That it's so fun.
It is fun.
It's fun to do it with you too.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
It is, it's amazing.
Is it amazing to do it with you?
Yes, that's what you're saying.
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
You're hilarious, okay?
Well, thank you for being apart of our One Blessed Mess
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Speaker 1 (51:48):
Yeah, that's not including YouTube.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
But this is all the other ways that people are
listening to it, and we arenoticing that there are people
listening to it around the world.
So, super exciting and we hopeit's blessing you, we can travel
all those places oh let's go.
I can't wait.
Sign me up.
Sign me up, but also follow uson Instagram.
Our one blessed mess, and thenwe have the same on Facebook and
we just want to say thank youfor being a part of this.
(52:13):
We really appreciate thefeedback we get from you and on
the connection, and if you havesomething that you're like gosh,
I would love to hear what Benand Liz's thoughts are on this.
We would probably do an episodefor you, but until that, next
time that we connect, we wouldlove to say embrace your,
embrace your beautiful mess,because if our mess can be
(52:35):
blessed, what, benjamin?
What is?
Speaker 1 (52:37):
it, then so can yours .
Speaker 2 (52:38):
Then so can yours have a great day.
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