May 2, 2025 • 55 mins
The ability to hear God's voice is a cornerstone of authentic faith, yet many believers struggle to recognize when the Lord is speaking to them. In this heartfelt conversation, Ben and Liz unpack Jesus's powerful metaphor of sheep recognizing their shepherd's voice, revealing how this ancient imagery perfectly illustrates our spiritual relationship with God today.
Drawing from John 10, they explore how sheep know their shepherd through consistent exposure, trust, and relationship—not through inherent knowledge. This same pattern applies to our spiritual lives as we learn to attune our ears to God's guidance through Scripture, the Holy Spirit's promptings, and wisdom from godly community.
The couple shares vulnerable stories from their own faith journey, including a remarkable moment when they both simultaneously felt God directing them to move to Florida during a church service—a prompting they initially resisted but later confirmed through multiple channels. This testimony demonstrates how God often speaks through layered confirmation, giving us assurance in significant life decisions.
For those wanting practical help, Ben and Liz outline four essential tests for discerning God's voice: the Scripture test (alignment with God's Word), the character test (reflection of God's nature), the fruit test (producing love, joy, peace), and the community test (confirmation from mature believers). They complement these with actionable steps including creating regular quiet time, journaling spiritual impressions, and establishing prayer partnerships.
Perhaps most comforting is their reminder that God shows tremendous patience with our learning process. Just as parents delight in a child's wobbly first steps without expecting immediate perfection, our heavenly Father rejoices in our growth as we develop spiritual discernment. The ultimate goal isn't perfect performance but genuine relationship—a connection where we recognize His voice amid life's competing noises.
Ready to develop a more intuitive recognition of God's voice in your life? Listen now, and start your journey toward clearer spiritual discernment and deeper communion with the Shepherd who knows you by name.
Your Listening to our 1 blessed mess, with ben and liz
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to our one blessed mess.
This is Ben and Liz, and we'rehere sharing our story of
raising six kids that we had ineight years, managing an
entrepreneurial home with twobusinesses, homeschooling and
currently navigating life withfour teenagers and we will have
our fifth teenager in about sixto eight weeks.
Oh, my gosh.
(00:27):
Plus, we have seven chickens,two dogs and two goats that are
overtaking my life Like I don'tknow how else to say it Like
these goats are becoming-.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
They're breaking in our house.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
They're literally-.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
They're breaking, they're fugitives.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
They are fugitives and we oh my gosh, it has been
such an adventure with thesegoats.
I mean I never thought that Iwould ever be talking about
goats.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
You talk about them quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I have to because I keep them alive.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
That's what's going on.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
That is what's going on.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Goat herders.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
We're goat herders.
That's right, we're goatherders.
And speaking of herders, what'stoday's conversation topic
about?
Ben?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Today's topic is not about goats, nope, it's actually
about hearing the shepherd'svoice.
It is yes, so basically hearingGod.
We're going to talk about whatit's like to listen to the Lord
and how that dynamic works in abeliever's life, and we're going
to share some stories and tryto be very practical but also
(01:27):
biblical and Holy Spiritcentered, and so we're just
going to do the whole kit andcaboodle with what it's like to
listen to the Lord, because Ifeel like that is a little bit
under fire.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Lately it is, and you and I've been having this
dialogue anyway.
And so we thought, well, let'sjust go ahead and bring it to
the podcast.
Our one blessed mess.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Oh yeah, the goat cast.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
What did you say?
The goat cast, the goat cast.
Oh my gosh.
If you watched my Facebook orInstagram stories today, if you
follow me or follow us, then youwill see Ben being a goat.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
We have a tower garden tire.
Yeah, which is basically whatis a tower garden.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It's an indoor garden and it's a vertical growing
system.
And so we have lights andeverything.
It's got a little water pump.
It's pretty ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yes, it is ridiculous , Our friends who have come over
, they're like.
That reminds me of the Holy ofHolies, because, you have an
indoor and an outdoor one.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
The indoor one is like it's like having a sun in
your kitchen.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, and basically beam me up, scotty, just beam me
up.
I mean, it's so bright, and sothis morning Ben is looking and
inspecting all these plants andI just happened to catch it on
video.
I didn't know you were filming,well, and then I told you I was
like you told me you're filming, so then I act even more crazy.
Yeah Well, he is like eatingthese leaves like a goat, I mean
just shoving them in his mouth.
(02:46):
It's like eight o'clock in themorning.
He's like Anyway, apparentlyhe's part of a herd too.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I am yeah, yeah, he's part of a herd too.
This is true.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
This is perfect for talking about hearing the
shepherd's voice.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
We don't want to use a goat metaphor, because that's
not what jesus used no he used adifferent metaphor.
He used sheep and he calledhimself the good shepherd.
And so that's in john um, or atleast one place that we know,
john yep, and I just want toread that real quick.
So john 10, 3 through 5, andthen also, uh, summing up in 27,
to him, the gatekeeper opens.
The sheep hear his voice and hecalls his own sheep by name and
leads them out.
When he has brought out all ofhis own, he goes before them and
(03:26):
the sheep follow him, for theyknow his voice.
Very key, a stranger.
They do not follow Right, butthey will flee from him.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
They do not know the voice of the strangers.
And at the end conclusion here,my sheep hear my voice and I
know them and they follow me.
It's very concrete, thismetaphor.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Very concrete.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Very concrete.
We should follow the Lordbecause we should know his voice
.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
His voice and that is basically what it is.
Sheep recognize theirshepherd's voice through
consistent exposure and trust.
And I'm just thinking aboutwhen I lived overseas and I
would be on a bus, riding alongin the hills and you would see a
shepherd going up the hillsalong a path that's probably
(04:11):
thousands and thousands of yearsold that had been used by their
ancestors and ancestors.
And as they're going up thesepaths, the sheep literally would
be lined up behind the shepherd.
And it was the coolest thingbecause as the sun was setting
or the sun was rising and thesilhouette hitting the mountains
, it was beautiful.
But do you know what wasrunning around and not in line
(04:31):
with the sheep?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Wait, do we have two of them?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yes, we do Goats.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Goats.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
It was the goats they were running.
Why did we get sheep in?
What were we thinking we shouldhave gotten sheep?
We should have gotten sheep andgoats.
But the truth is is that voicerecognition comes from
relationship, and so theshepherd has relationship with
the sheep and the sheeprecognize and hear the
shepherd's voice, and it's notjust audible sound quality, it's
actually they know his voiceand it can even be a whisper.
(04:57):
Remember that one time wewatched a video where someone
from our church, from thePhilippines, got up and she was
sharing about the shepherd.
Yeah, and you guys, you canYouTube this, go and look it up.
But basically there were allthese people, I guess, who came
to the farm, I don't know, andthere were tons of sheep that
were out there and the shepherdwas telling the people what to
(05:21):
say to try to get the sheep tocome, and so they were saying,
whatever it is, I don't know,bye-bye no.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
No, what would it be?
I don't know what it was.
Here's sheep, here's sheep.
It was something in English.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, it was, I don't remember.
You guys can look it up.
But anyway, all these peopleare standing there and they're
saying it, they're screaming itand not once did the sheep look
up they just kept eating theirgrass, just chewing their
breakfast or their lunch.
But then when the shepherd cameand the shepherd stood there
and the shepherd said the exactsame calls that all the other
(05:54):
people had been doing, it lookedlike a symphony, because all
the sheep lifted up their headsat the same time turned and
looked, I mean literally liftedtheir heads, turned and looked
right at the shepherd andstarted taking off for the
shepherd.
The sheep know the shepherd'svoice and it's amazing because,
you know, sheep actually are notvery intelligent, are they?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Well, they're not known for their intelligence.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
No, they're not known for their intelligence.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
They kind of get stuck in places and wander off
and do silly things.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Right, we kind of went down this long path one
night on like reels of likestupid sheep and they like keep,
like they pull them out of thislike ditch, and then the sheep
goes and like ends up in theditch again, upside down, and
it's like I was thinking, gosh,that's probably me.
I wonder if that's what theLord thinks when he looks at me
(06:44):
Like I just't know, we'retwo-headed sheep.
Just kidding, I don't know,maybe they do have that out
there.
It's so weird.
Yeah, let's not go down thatlist.
That's like.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
That's a sheep trail, not a rabbit trail.
What is she?
Oh boy, I was thinking of what?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
weird stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, that has nothing to dowith the Lord, let's not talk
about that.
No, but while sheep are notknown for their intelligence,
they do have a strong herdinstinct.
And I think this is brilliantbecause even in the past
episodes that we've been talkingabout and being in community,
their defense is being in a herd, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, that part's crazy to to me yes like we, we
started looking up some researchon okay, well, how do sheep
actually defend themselves rightand you know, do they have like
some ability that you know juststands out?
Amongst everything else wherethey play dead yeah yeah, or
something, and what we found isthat, like, really their only
defense is vigilance.
(07:42):
It's like they group togetherright stay together they stay
together, they have goodeyesight, they have good hearing
and they huddle and they fleetogether, and they also do
something else that we found wasreally interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
They conceal something.
They conceal who's hurt.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
They conceal who's hurt Right.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
So that the enemy, whomever it may be a wolf, a
bear, a lion cannot pick themoff.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, so that's.
One of the known tactics ofpredators is to go after the
weak members of the flock.
Right, so sheep have like areally strong ability to hide
their pain and injury.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
And we were like man.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
that's kind of crazy that kind of feels like Jesus
knew what he was talking about.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
You know, and it's so true, because sometimes when
you are hurting, you willisolate and you'll go and not be
in communication, not be, incommunity and the Lord is saying
hello sheep, I put you in thecommunity, I put you in the
family fold to cover you toprotect you Right.
And we're going to get intothat a little bit more just
(08:39):
understanding what it means tohear the shepherd's voice and
what that sounds like, and partof that is being in community,
and so I just think it's sointeresting.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, it's a really cool metaphor.
There's a lot to unpack therethat maybe you wouldn't know
unless you studied sheep.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Well, and there's been people who have gone and
lived with shepherds to studysheep, and then actually there's
books that are out there whichwe haven't read any of them yet.
But there's books that are outthere that you can read and it's
amazing because it's showingwhat it is to be a shepherd and
what it is to be in a herd ofsheep.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Profound, it is profound.
There's some really cool stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Well, before we do that, I want everybody to repeat
after me.
Say I I Am Am A sheep A sheep,so we're sheep A sheep.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
So we're sheep Bye, but this is good.
This is a really good because,just summarizing this real quick
like we learn to develop an earto hear our Savior's voice, so
I think that to me, that was themost powerful part of this
metaphor that Jesus uses.
It's like we don't just startoff and somehow know our
(09:45):
shepherd.
We have to develop thatrelationship, just like a sheep
would right.
There's constant development,there's interaction, there's the
shepherd protecting the sheep,feeding the sheep, guiding the
sheep, and then thatrelationship develops and then
they're attuned.
There's an attunement thathappens.
And I think that's really likewhat it's like to follow our
(10:06):
shepherd's voice.
We have to put the time in,whether that's prayer, scripture
, community worship.
We start to understand thatdistinct tone of God's guidance
in our lives and we start torealize his character and then
it's like, oh, I know his voice.
I'm starting to get that pieceof this relationship where we
(10:26):
over time can develop that ear,that listening ear, that we know
our shepherd's voice.
So that part of it just reallyspeaks to the trustworthiness
that we get of the Lord's voicethrough our experience as we
just follow his leadership inour lives.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
That's right, and so if you're following his
leadership in his life, yourlife, what does that look like?
Like, how do you do thatPractically?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, so here's some practicals.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
So we kind of unpack that metaphor, but really the
main thing, I think that we cankind of utilize, or sorry, one
of the things we can utilize.
One as we listen to the voice ofthe Lord in our lives?
Is his written word right?
So it's through scriptures andthat can sound like a cop-out
answer like okay, yeah, duh, theBible.
(11:14):
That's kind of a no-brainer.
But if you think about it, theexperience of the Bible as
people were writing it, as thestories tell what was happening,
it's literally God speaking toman through prophets, through
circumstances, throughexperiences, through heroes and
(11:34):
sometimes villains.
And yeah, and the apostles andJesus, and so it's like this is
God's word that we can utilizethrough other people, how he's
spoken to other people, and sothis is just a way to connect
with that shepherd's voice, aswe've seen it done through other
people, and it's alive, it'sactive, so it confirms what he's
(11:55):
doing in our life, and so inPsalms it talks about your word
is a lamp unto my feet and alight unto my path, and so
scriptures is really just kindof the foundation that we can
use to discerning God's voice asit relates to his character,
and it's important to like notjust cherry pick verses but to
really study the scriptures andsee what the Lord says about
(12:16):
himself.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Right, which is his character, and I know you drive
that home a lot in our familytime with our, in our devotions
with our kids, because when evenquestions are coming up or
they're seeing certainsituations or circumstances with
their friends or in theirfriend's family and we talk
about.
Well, what is the character ofGod?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Right.
How do you discern thecharacter of God in that
situation?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Right, and it's so important because if we don't
know him, if we don't know hischaracter, we can be taken.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And we can maybe miss his voice.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Absolutely and.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I don't want to miss his voice.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
I want to stay right there with the shepherd, and
that's.
And how do you learn theshepherd's voice except for
hearing it?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
learning it, that experience and that experience.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
So the scripture is a great way.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
It is yeah.
And lastly, just a part aboutthe scripture.
We don't want to just relegateit to Bible knowledge.
Our relationship with the Lordshouldn't just be how much Bible
knowledge you know, and we'renot going to find salvation in
our Bible knowledge, right?
In fact, jesus even referencesthat with the Pharisees in John
(13:20):
5, 37.
I'll just read it real quick,because it's super powerful.
And the Father who sent me hashimself borne witness about me.
His voice you have never heard,his form you have never seen
and you do not have his wordsabiding in you, for you do not
believe the one whom he has sent.
You search the scripturesbecause you think that in them
(13:41):
you have eternal life and it isthey that bear witness about me.
Yet you refuse to come to methat you may have life.
That's a super powerful verseto unpack.
I think you got to be reallynuanced with it.
But essentially, jesus is likeblasting the Pharisees because
their knowledge of the Bible iswhat they trusted in, not
(14:01):
forming a relationship with Godand through Jesus.
So we don't want to fall intothat same trap.
We don't want to just thinkthat having Bible knowledge is
the same thing as having arelationship with God.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
No, because he is actually somebody you have
relationship with and you cancommune with him.
And how does that happen?
How do we have that?
What is the what's the primaryway?
One of my favorites, the HolySpirit.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
The Holy Spirit the.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, let's dive in, let's dive into the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
So I have been studying for a couple of weeks
now on the Holy Spirit and it'sjust like every sermon that I
can find I've been listening toon YouTube and books and
scriptures.
And so when Ben and I werediscussing all this and he says,
hey, I want to talk about theHoly Spirit, I was like, oh, you
do, Okay, Because I've just,I've just been in the midst of
(14:53):
this.
And, and John 16, 13, it sayswhen the spirit of truth comes,
he will guide you into all truth.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
And so you know, ask a question there.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yes, I know what you're going to ask.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
So I, I personally believe, and I think you would
say too, that the Holy Spirit isthe primary way that we
communicate with God.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I think so.
He's the comforter.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I think that the Bible might be the most
practical way, but the HolySpirit is the primary way.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Well, the Lord sent him and Jesus even said that I'm
leaving because I'm sendinganother, which is the primary
way.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Well, the Lord sent him and Jesus even said that I'm
leaving because I'm sendinganother which is the Holy Spirit
, and if Jesus had to leave forthe Holy Spirit to come, like we
know that, that's gotta besuper important, right.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
And he's part of the Trinity.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yes, of course.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Like.
He's the person, the Holy.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Spirit.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Like it's when you start getting into studying
it'll blow your hair back.
Yeah, it'll blow your hair back.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
It's really amazing and in the midst of it, like as
I've been studying the lastcouple of weeks, it's so right,
like it's almost like the glovejust fits.
Yeah, it's right, and I'm nothaving to like and I've always
known Holy Spirit.
I should say that, but it'sbeen neat to study about him.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah, yeah, it's almost like we were made for
communion with him.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Well, we were made for communion with him.
In fact, your body is thetemple for the Holy Spirit.
That's what it says in firstCorinthians six.
But it's also Holy.
Spirit is awful often describedas the inner witness or
spiritual nudging, and I knowsometimes in my study that I've
been, you know, these lastcouple of weeks.
(16:27):
It's like you have people whoare like they just know things,
they feel things, they may seethings, they may hear things.
But that's Holy Spirit and heis bearing witness in that
person.
And it's so neat because thebody of Christ is very vast and
it's not like a one size fitsall and Holy Spirit knows that.
(16:49):
So he's communing with us.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I would venture to guess that we actually have more
Holy Spirit encounters than werealize.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Absolutely.
That's why it's that glove thatfits.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I think so too, and I think, even like the leading of
the Holy Spirit and the guidingit manifests in different ways,
right, like it could be thatstill small voice, it could be
something more grandiose, right,some people actually have just
they hear a voice like a literalvoice.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Some people do Some people do and that's amazing or
dreams and their dream life.
You know there's lots, lots ofbiblical references of dreams
lots and that hasn't stopped.
No, and the Lord is speaking.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
He is speaking through dreams, yeah, yeah, for
sure, and I think we just a lotof times.
It's easy to try to explain itaway, or why do I have this
feeling on you?
Know something I ate, orwhatever, but man, you, more
than anybody else, I think in mylife.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I'm sorry to put you on a pedestal.
I know I'm like wait.
What are you saying?
You?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
have a special relationship with the Lord.
I'm not saying you're hisfavorite, or anything like that.
But I just know that I've seenit, I've witnessed it as your
husband.
I've witnessed that the Lordspeaks to you and I think the
Holy Spirit is the one that'sdoing it.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Oh, I know it is.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
And you've just like you've been able to just
pinpoint something or tell mesomething in the right season or
the right time, and I'm justlike man.
That was the Lord.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Well, and just to kind of.
You know, it's not like Liz issuper spiritual or anything like
that.
No, no, come on.
Anything like that, I mean Ithink they're super special, no,
no, come on.
But I think what it is is justgoing.
Okay, what if this is the Lord?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
You know, and that's why counsel is important.
Communication, you and Icommunicate about it.
I think journaling we're.
We're going to get into a lotof this.
I know I'm kind of skippingahead.
But you're right on time Okaybut like writing it down and
spending time with the lord.
I think in the morning.
Or, and I just want to say, noteverybody can get up in the
morning.
I understand there's seasons oflife where maybe you've been up
(18:53):
all night with a baby andyou're just like I, just want to
sleep.
And then as soon as you wake up,it's like your feet hit the
ground running, and so maybeyour quiet time with the Lord
may only be in the shower orlate at night, once all the kids
are to bed.
But depending on your season oflife and you may not be a
morning person, you might be anight person, but the Lord meets
you where you are.
But if you are journaling andyou spend time in worship, and
(19:16):
then even reading your word, andas you're doing something
that's standing out to you, youjust start writing that down.
Or if you have a thought thatcomes to your mind, write it
down, even if you're thinking Idon't know if this is the Lord,
write it down, because what Ihave noticed is that when I've
worked with people and learningto hear the voice of God, if
they're writing that down,they'll go back to it and be
(19:37):
like whoa the Lord was speakingto me.
Yes, he was, and so I think thatdoubt that comes in it's like a
.
It's a thief and we need to bechildlike.
That's what I'm trying to sayIf we're childlike.
And what is he saying, what ishe speaking?
You know, and it's sometimeslike you, and it's sometimes
(19:57):
like that can be like a littlesystem to help you get to a
place to be able to hear theLord, but then also too, I think
, being in nature getting intobeauty watching children play,
silence, beautiful music andjust he comes.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, creating space, like you're creating space,
creating space and you'reknowing what to look for, I
think is important too.
Yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I was just thinking too in the beginning of this
when we are believers, what isthe difference between a
believer and a non-believer?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Now.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
I get to ask you the question, Ben.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Okay, is this a test?
Because I hope I'm going topass.
I think the difference isrelationship.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
It is.
And so somebody who is abeliever has a relationship with
the living God, the creator.
Somebody who is not doesn'thave relationship.
So if you have two differentpeople believer and non-believer
and they are looking at a joband they're considering this job
opportunity, well, thenon-believer is probably looking
at it logical, trying to seewhat it's going to look like.
(20:56):
But the believer is goingbefore the creator and saying
what is your will?
What do you want, father?
If this isn't, your will shutthe door.
If it is, your will open thedoor.
And then they're gatheringfriends in their community their
pastors or their spouse ornever and they're praying Lord,
help us.
And so the difference is isthat when you are a believer and
you have relationship with theLord, help us?
And so the difference is isthat when you are a believer and
(21:16):
you have relationship with theLord, he knows the future, and
so he knows that that company isgoing to close its doors in a
year or it's going to pick upand move somewhere else go to
Alaska or something you have touproot your whole family.
But when you are listening tothe shepherd and you have that
relationship with a shepherd, itis a benefit.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, it's more than just the logical what's on the
outside.
There's an extra dimension toit.
Right, and you touched on thegodly counsel part, and that's
the third kind of practical waythat we can hear God.
So we talked about through theword through the.
Holy Spirit, which we believeis the primary way, and maybe
(21:56):
the Bible is the most practicalway, but through the godly
counsel.
I think is something that maybesometimes doesn't get utilized
enough.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I feel like if we can be open and vulnerable before
people and even come with aspirit of humility, God really
smiles on that.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
He does, and it's cornenea.
Yeah, it's smiles on that hedoes.
And it's cornenea?
Yeah, it's relationship.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
It is Right and God's about that.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
He is about that, and I think some of the reason why
people do not utilize it isbecause of fear, and they're
afraid of being exposed.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
And hurt too, and hurt.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, and maybe along the way you did that, and you
felt you know, misunderstood ormisheard, and it's so healthy to
be in a healthy community wherethere can be transparency and
doing life together.
And we've moved.
Um, we had community before wegot married.
Then we found community when wefirst got married.
(22:50):
Then we moved after you know somany years in a different
community, built anothercommunity and what we know
pretty much community yeah, ourhome is my gosh especially the
goats oh, mercy these goats.
Anyway, we have more kids, youguys, we added two more kids we
have eight kids the goat kids.
But I'm just thinking like itis healthy to be in community
(23:14):
and to have accountability, butto be transparent for counsel,
because God speaks in that hereally does, he does.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, and even in Proverbs 11, 14, where there is
no guidance, a people fail.
But in abundance of counselorsthere is safety.
And so you know this is just apoint to keep in mind that God
uses lots of different things,and we know that he uses godly
counsel.
It's all throughout scripturesand there's an impetus for us to
(23:44):
connect with like-minded people, with other believers, and so
that is just that third pillar.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
These three pillars the Bible, the Holy Spirit, and
through other godly people.
That's how we practically hearthe voice of the Lord.
There's other things too.
I think.
You could look at circumstancesand maybe a few other things,
but these three, I think, arereally the foundation.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, they're solid as a rock.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, and so let's just jump into one of the times,
and this is one.
There's plenty that I'veexperienced, but the Holy Spirit
helped you one time.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Yes, he did that I'm thinking of.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
I was borrowing a tool.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And it was like a little hoe and I was in the
garden, I was using it to justkind of till up the ground.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
It was a pole digger.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Is that what it was?
It was a post hole, digger Posthole.
That's what it was we needed atill, but we asked, but I was
using that.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
But all we had in our community was a post hole
digger.
Okay, so I was using that tobreak up the ground, which is
really dumb, it was awful andwhere we were in the.
South and we don't haveboulders in our yard We've never
had boulders in our yard.
We didn't grow up with boulders, so you're like out there.
Post hole diggers and I waspregnant with somebody I don't
(25:04):
remember who I was pregnant withand you were out there with
this post hole digger and wewere having to move these
massive boulders out of ourgarden area just to grow a
garden.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
So I'm using that tool and all of a sudden this
little, this little bolt fallsout like a little nut and the
little bolt falls out.
And we had borrowed this.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, I borrowed it and it was like their
grandfathers, yeah it was likesome plus years old and I'm
thinking, oh no, it's like anantique, right.
What were we doing?
What were we thinking?
Speaker 2 (25:36):
so so that happens.
So I like I kind of panicbecause I start looking for it
and of course there's all theserocks and the dirt's all moved
around, and so I'm out therelooking, spend about 10-15
minutes I can't find it.
I mean, I'm not even andmeanwhile I'm inside.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
The sun is setting.
It's getting dark.
You had been at work all dayI've been ready yeah, dinner was
ready.
I remember I had an apron on andI'm like Benjamin, you need to
come inside and eat.
Dinner is going to get cold.
And you're like I can't, I'velost something.
I'm still looking and I'm like,oh, ben, we can find it later.
You're like, no, we borrowedthis.
I want to be a good steward, Ineed to find this, this bolt,
(26:13):
and so, out of my frustration,you come out there and I knew I
kind of actually I think I askedyou.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
I was like hey, can you just pray?
I was like at this point I knewthat you were very sensitive to
the Holy spirit and so I waslike hey maybe, maybe I can use
this to hopefully rectify thissituation.
So I was like Liz, come outhere and pray and just see if
the Lord shows you this bolt andwhat I mean.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
it was like less than five minutes, so I walk out
there, kind of in a huffy, puffyattitude, like, oh gosh, I was
hungry, I'm pregnant, I'm like Igot to eat and we had all these
other kids.
So I get out there and I said,lord, where's this bolt so my
husband can eat dinner?
And all of a sudden I like sawin my mind's eye the picture of
(26:59):
this bowl.
And you had been out there fora long time looking, and so I
just saw this picture and I waslike, oh, it's underneath this
thing.
And so I just looked over and Iwent down and I said, here it
is.
And you're like what I said,don't ask.
I just prayed.
I was like the Lord showed me apicture of where it would be
and let's go eat.
Please put the bolt back inthere.
And we're returning this.
Yeah, this is not what we endedup renting a tiller, which is
(27:21):
what we should have done in thebeginning but we were new, we
didn't know yes, but so that waspretty crazy
Speaker 2 (27:26):
because like it was a big area and there's this
little tiny bowl and you know,the lord showed you.
I don't know it's, it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
But it was awesome, it was super awesome, it's fun.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
And then I'm also thinking about another story
that involves us moving, and wewere in a church service, and
again these are like Holy Spiritfocused, but the important part
is that this one, thisparticular story, has both of us
in it, where we felt the samething.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
The exact same thing.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
So we were in a church service and it was a
crazy thing that we felt theLord tell us, so crazy that I
didn't want to tell Liz.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
And I didn't want to tell Ben.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
And so both of us were kind of like beating around
the bush a little bit.
It was after church service.
We were on our way to eat withsome family members for lunch
and I was kind of like, hey, Liz, did God say anything to you?
Did you sense anything from theLord?
Did you feel something today?
Speaker 1 (28:23):
And I said yes, this is you know.
So when we were in the service,where we were sitting, it was
as if the Lord came and andspoke to us at the exact same
time.
Yeah, almost like whispered inour ear at the same time, you're
moving back to Florida.
And I didn't want to sayanything to him because I
thought, whoa, this is a reallybig deal.
And I remember thinking, lord,if this is you, you have to tell
(28:46):
Ben, because I don't know.
And so when we got in the car,you know, here we are with our
kids, we're leaving to go eatlunch with family both sides of
the family and we share.
He's like well, you go firstand I'm like, okay, so I'm like,
well, I felt like in service atthis part, when the sermon was,
that the Lord mentioned, likehe whispered I want you to move
(29:06):
back to Florida.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, and then you were like and it wasn't on our
radar?
No, or maybe.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Texas or something like that.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
We were thinking everywhere else, yeah,
everywhere else, but back toFlorida, and so for us to both
get that at the same time wewere like whoa that must be
something.
And then we ended up eatingwith family members and then we
were like I don't know if thatwas the Lord.
Yeah, because we went out tolunch and it was like okay.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
A little chaotic and things Right with our kids and
all the cousins and aunts anduncles and the grandparents.
I was like okay, this isoverwhelming, because we had
established our family norms andtraditions and we would come
back and visit.
But then we would go back hometo our peaceable.
What we thought was it wasn'treally peaceable, but I mean,
you know, less chaotic.
And so I remember after thatlunch I was like I don't think I
(29:53):
can do it.
I don't think I can do it.
But the funny thing is, oneweek later, and I'm just going
to share this, and you know,because we're talking about even
dreams how the Lord can speakin dreams.
One week later, we met a friendwith her kids.
I remember it was at Chick-fil-Aand all the kids were playing
in the playground and she wasasking us, you know?
So what do you?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
We're still on that Florida trip, right yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:13):
And she asked she said what do you think about?
You know well, how did she saywhat do you think about having
more children?
And you and I had already madea decision that we were not
going to have any more children.
And she said, okay, and she'slike, well, what do you think
about moving to Florida?
And we were like, no, we're not, you know.
(30:34):
So we had already dismissedwhat we thought was the Lord
from the week before, and cause,we were, you know, there for a
whole week and a half orwhatever, for our vacation.
And I said why are you asking?
She goes, well, I was goingthrough my journals from like
years prior and she had found adream that she had had of us,
and in this dream I had a, I hadfive kids.
(30:58):
And she said, um, and when shehad had this dream, we hadn't
had but four, right and so, um,but she said the there was a
little girl there with big blueeyes.
Um, there are two girls, blaze.
And then she says the next onemust have been baria.
In this dream she had big blueeyes and, um, she said, was
talking up a storm, which atthat time Maria was only like
(31:18):
one and she was talking up astorm like, oh my gosh, I even
Googled can children speak infull sentences at this age?
I mean she was just a big,bright eye and she said I had a
blue blanket or a baby and ablue blanket, wrapped in a blue
blanket, and she goes.
But you were living in Floridaand your yard, she saw our house
(31:39):
and she saw the yard and allthis kind of stuff and we were
like, yeah, no.
Well when we got home, I cleanedout all the baby stuff because
I was like we're not having anymore babies, we're done.
And you know, I was like if, ifthat's a baby that she was
talking about, it's one thatwe're adopting, is not coming
from me, right?
And little did I know, a weeklater, like we got home, we
(32:02):
cleaned it out.
So, after cleaning out maybetwo weeks, then a week or so
later I find out I'm pregnantand it's our youngest.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
And a little boy.
And the funny thing is is herdream.
The house that she saw isactually the house that we're in
.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah.
So I mean that is very how coolis that?
It is cool and you know, ittook us a while to really like
lock in and think, okay, yeah,we are moving back to Florida,
but that dream helped you know,and then also.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
But we didn't even accept her dream, to be honest.
No, it took a while.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
It took a little while.
We're like I don't know aboutthat, and then we just kept
coming back to it and we reallyfelt like the Holy Spirit was
directing and leading us.
And then, even years down theroad, did we not even realize
like, oh, that was really wiseto move when we did.
We found a great house at theprice we did.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
I mean there's a lot of reasons, but the main reason
is and being closer to familyduring COVID.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, reason closer to family during covid, yeah,
but the biggest reason is likewe felt the lord and we knew it
was his wisdom for us to, eventhough we bucked up against it.
We did, yeah, and we were alittle bit more goats than sheep
.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Oh, definitely, and it from that time when we felt
the lord, and then there was afriend that came and brought the
confirmation which we justtotally dismissed, which is
terrible.
Um, it wasn't until two yearslater that we actually moved
yeah.
And so, anyway, all that to say, journaling, counsel, prayer,
he's with us.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
The word, the word.
He is with us.
So some takeaways.
All right, let's dive into sometakeaways.
What are some things that wecan do to discern God's voice,
liz, like what are just somepractical things that?
Speaker 1 (33:36):
we can do to discern God's voice.
Liz, like, what are just somepractical things?
Well, first of all, I feel likethere are four different tests
for discerning or discerning,depending on where you are in
the country is how you say it,right, but to hearing God's
voice, and the first one is whatwe talked about the scripture
test.
Yeah, does it align with God'sword.
Does it align?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
with God's word.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
If it doesn't, you need to dismiss it.
Sure, and also too.
The second one is charactertest.
Does it reflect God's nature?
Truth, and I think you canalmost.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Maybe wrap those two together right, Because the
scriptures should test it.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
But it should ultimately also pass that
character test.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Are we listening to the Lord and are we reading the
scriptures in the right way, sothat his character does come
forward Right?
Speaker 1 (34:22):
And you know it's love, it's truth, it's mercy.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah, it's all the things that he says he is.
It's exactly which is hischaracter.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
And then the fruit test.
I love this one because theBible talks about you will know
them by their fruit, and so ifthere's good fruit, is it
producing love, joy, peace,patience, kindness, goodness,
self-control, gentleness.
You got it, I know.
I think that was all.
I think, it was Galatians 5.22.
That's right, but the thing isis like, if there is fruit and
(34:48):
it is healthy, then that is a go.
Yes, and the last one I wouldsay is community.
And that community test isgoing to do, of course, when
you're doing it among maturebelievers.
But that really I feel a safetywhich we're talking about the
sheep herd, if we're in the herd, you know, and we're
(35:11):
communicating and we have thataccountability in a healthy
community.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Got to remember that, because there are ones out
there that are not healthy, andthe Lord will help you.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
He will guide you, he'll put you into the community
where you're supposed to bloomand blossom.
But if you're using all four ofthose, then by golly the Lord
is probably speaking.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Can I just throw a little caveat out there?
Speaker 1 (35:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Can I just say that all those are great, but that
community test do you?
Think sometimes people look attheir community and see, oh,
it's not perfect.
Oh, absolutely so then maybe Ishouldn't share.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Oh, are you putting a mirror up to your wife?
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (35:50):
I didn't mean to, but I feel like I mean I was just
saying that because I feel likeI have been there and done that
where it's like, okay, god, putme in this community.
It's not perfect, because we'renot perfect, right, and I'm not
perfect, and so I don't knowwhy I get on this high horse
sometimes, but I do, and so I'mlike I'm not going to share that
because I know the proclivitiesof this person.
(36:16):
They might think it's you, don'treally know yeah and so I feel
like that maybe is even a formof pride, like we just got to
humble ourselves sometimes andhumility.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, isn't that a fruit of the spirit?
Just kidding, it's not.
But it should.
Be blessed are the meek.
Blessed are the humble that'strue.
Yeah, it's part of god'scharacter, it is it, and he's
also drawn to humility as well.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
He is, and I should say it's part of Jesus's
character, because we could godown a whole rabbit trail on
this, but I just want to throw a30 second commercial, not a
sheep trail.
Yes, a sheep trail, but God, Ibelieve God doesn't have the
ability to be humble.
He loves humility but, butbecause God is other, than there
(36:57):
are no limitations on God andthere's no way that you could
compare him to something else.
So part of being humble isrecognizing our own limitations.
Can God be humble?
I don't know.
I feel like that's a catch 22.
Jesus can be humble, oh boy.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Oh boy.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
I probably opened up a can of worms.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
I'm like I don't know if we need to go down there,
but we know that he's drawn tohumility.
He is drawn to humility, he'sdrawn and he makes his dwelling
with the broken and the contrite.
Absolutely.
He makes his dwelling.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
And that's what we want relationship.
We want him to and dwell withme.
I want to be available.
And it says in his word thatAbraham was a friend of God.
I want to be a friend of God.
(37:46):
Twyla, paris boy, I'm pullingout some old ones.
I am a friend of God.
Here we go, and if you guysknow that song, you can sing
along with me, okay, so maybesome practical steps in how to
tune or attune our ears to theshepherd right.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
So regular quiet time .
I feel like this is superimportant being able to have
space, solitude, even to be ableto dial down all the other
voices right, the sheep willknow his voice, a stranger will
not follow.
That's what john talks about.
So we have to dial back all theother noises, all the other
influences that are coming at uson a 24 7 basis.
(38:27):
I think we have to make spaceright those regular quiet times,
and that's where we start tolike say god, speak to me here,
I'm creating space for you, I'mprioritizing time with you.
I'm beginning to trust you, toopen myself up to you.
It's got to start somewhere,and so I think those regular
(38:49):
quiet times is where we beginthat journey of listening.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
So, benjamin, tell us , what do you love to do for
your quiet time?
I just feel like it's a reallygreat one.
So I we talked about this inanother episode.
We were talking about familydevotions.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
And so, but maybe just bring it back up, yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
I do this daily office thing and it's a
tradition that is back, I think,in the church fathers, and so
essentially it models thatconcept of the Jewish practice
of praying three times a day,and so they created space three
times a day.
We think that Jesus definitelyfollowed this model as well.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Absolutely, he was up the mountain too.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah, there's countless times where you see in
the scriptures where Jesus isremoving himself so that he can
have solitude so that he canhave time with the father.
So that he can refresh himself,and so I think that's
definitely a pattern that wehave to follow in our own lives.
So I like to do the daily office, which is basically just
reading through scripture threetimes a day prayer and
(39:52):
meditation and so I have somebooks that help me with that.
I have one that's on the Psalms, one that's on life of Jesus
and also one that is the lettersof Paul, and so I switch back
and forth every couple monthsbetween those three.
It's really good because itgives a great cross section of
just some Old Testament, somegospel and then the epistles,
(40:13):
and so I really like chewing onthose three areas.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Can we put a link in the notes?
We can, yeah, yeah.
So I really like chewing onthose three areas.
Can we put a link in the notes?
We can, yeah, yeah.
So that way, if anybody wantsthem, because they are great,
yeah, they're great.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
They come in like a three book series and again it's
three devotions essentiallythat you do every day, and if
you miss one, no big deal, right, you just either get caught up
or you just skip ahead to thenext day.
But the important thing is islike you are creating space.
That's what I love about thispractice is like I'm I'm having
(40:41):
to prioritize time and say like,hey, this is my time with the
Lord.
I'm going to even do it in themiddle of the day, which is
super hard.
And you're an entrepreneur andyou have a family and you have a
wife who needs your attention.
This is true, very true.
And you have goats, the goats,the goats are the worst.
They need my attention all thetime.
But yeah, it's just a matter oflike dialing down and creating
(41:04):
that space and I feel like theLord meets me in that space.
It's really cool and having thatthree times a day is super, I
think, influential, right,Because it's like in the
mornings, in the midday andbefore I go to to bed and so I
feel like my mind is like beingrenewed three times a day, which
is amazing I need it word.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
The word is living in a life.
Yeah, it is, and so, as you'rereprogramming your mind, you're
setting new narrow neuro pathsin your brain.
I mean, we can get into brainscience, but you're not wearing
your science glasses so we can'ttalk about brain science.
Yeah, I guess, skip it.
But no, for real, like you're,you're renewing and you're
feeding your spirit man.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
And so that's the second, that's the second step,
right.
So regular quiet time andthat's the, creating the space
to listen.
Um, and then scripture readingis the second one actually
feasting on the Bible and havingthe scripture be a way to start
recognizing the voice of theshepherd.
Okay so that's where we learnabout his character.
That's the knowing unto therelationship.
(42:04):
So Bible literacy is that.
Second point is like reallystudying about the knowledge of
God who he says he is superimportant and being able to use
that to then follow his leadingRight.
A third one I believe is superimportant is journaling your
impressions, okay.
So, when you feel the leadingof the Holy Spirit, write it
(42:26):
down.
You know Like there are so manyinstances in the Bible where
people set up memorials to theLord.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Different events okay .
Speaker 2 (42:36):
And that's a great way in the Old Testament days to
go back and see what thathappened.
There was like a monument tohow the Lord led through his
spirit even, and saved throughthe situation, and so I feel
like it's imperative that wejournal when we feel the Holy
Spirit moving and guiding anddirecting us to.
(42:59):
Let's put that down, let'smemorialize it and then we can
go back and we can remember that, and I think that's super
important.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
And, if I may, it can also be drawing.
It can be, art.
I love these Bibles that areout there that have big space
for doodling or making notes,and you know something about the
memorializing it.
I'm just thinking of Gilgal.
When the children of Israelcrossed the Jordan after being
in the desert for 40 years, andthey took the stones, the 12
(43:27):
stones from the dry Jordan.
They made a monument at Gilgalbut it says, especially reading
Joshua they go back to Gilgalall the time.
Why?
Because they're human and theyforget.
And I think the Lord knowsyou're human and you will forget
(43:49):
.
And so if you can push past theurge to not write it down and be
faithful to writing it down.
I try to keep my journal withme as much as possible because
the Lord is speaking to us allthrough the day.
I mean it could be even, and Iyou know, it's not just one way.
He is the creator of theuniverse, it's not just all so
like this is how he speaks andthen he speaks like this.
I mean it can be throughnumbers.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
It can be.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
I mean, I keep seeing a certain bird, and so this
blue bird, and it's like everytime I see this certain blue
bird, it's like every time I seethis certain bluebird.
I started looking it up andseeing what does a bluebird mean
?
And it's like something specialbetween the Lord and I.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Yeah, and so journaling that, writing it down
, drawing that, looking up whatwords mean things like that
you're building upon in thatrelationship with him, and it's
just like you taking notes onthings that I like and I'm
taking notes on things that youlike, and so it's part of that.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
It's part of the relationship.
Yeah, you're studying like yeah, I think that's super good.
What you all that you just saidis super important.
I've been keeping a journal forover 20 years and being able to
by the way, some of his earlyjournal entries are really like
before we got married.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah, they're, they're really sweet because
he's like thinking about hiswife and he's like, hey, what's
up, what are you doing today?
I'm thinking about you.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
You're like 14 or 15 oh boy, no, no, it wasn't that
early.
This was like me being hokey.
I was like a 18, 19 year old,yeah well, what's up how you
doing?
Speaker 1 (45:16):
I'm thinking about you today.
I'm praying for you.
Today, I'm praying for you.
It's really cute.
Okay, keep going.
I totally interrupted that,that's okay.
But your other journal thatyou've had, yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
But the journal that I've had and being able to go
back 20 years.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Yeah, I type it.
I type it.
I use a computer.
It doesn't have to be a journalthat you're writing in.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
I'm a computer nerd, necessarily because I don't like
my handwriting, but that'sanother issue.
So being able to type it and Ilove to be also to like because
it's all typed out, I can justkeyword search and go back to
memories and look at things andso that's super helpful and
important to be able to recallthings that have happened and
even dreams and stuff right LikeI'll sometimes.
(45:54):
I'll write down a dream andI'll go back and see maybe it
meant something, maybe it didn't, but like just the fact that
I'm trying to journal I'm tryingto record.
it is way better than just goingthrough life without having any
reference at all from the timespast that God's spoken to you.
So those are three.
The fourth one that I want tomention real quick, when these
(46:16):
again are practical steps tojust tune in or tune ourselves
to the Lord.
The fourth one is havingregular prayer partners.
Okay, so that's that communityaspect and also bringing in our
ears to be able to listen to theLord in community, so that can
be just someone that you'reaccountable with and you pray
together.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Your spouse is a good one.
I think husbands and wivesshould be praying together.
Yeah, for sure, and being ableto share.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
So being able to share to bounce off one another.
This is the impression that I'mgetting.
Will you pray with me about it?
It doesn't necessarily have tobe synchronous, you can pray and
ask someone else to pray intoit, but you're sharing and
you're experiencing God together.
And again, when there's two ormore, that's when the presence
happens.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yes, and it's good, it is good, it's so good, it's
so good, and there's alsofreedom in the process.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
And so God is patient with our learning, like parents
are with children.
We're not looking at our kidswhen they're learning to walk
and going.
What's wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Get up and start running.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Yeah, you're not doing it perfectly.
You're not doing it perfectly.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
God's the same way, right and so when our little one
I'm just thinking of our littleones you know when they're
standing up and they're startingto scoot around the coffee
table.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Yeah, yeah.
It's like keep going, keepgoing, you're doing it, you're
doing it.
Yeah, yeah, hopping their hands.
Come here, come here.
I imagine God being like thatwith us.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
He is joyful and he is joyful, he is joy, yeah, and
he's not looking at us going.
Oh, you didn't write in yourjournal for three weeks.
I'm cutting you off.
That's right, he's not doingthat.
(48:02):
He, he, he is a loving god.
Yes, that's who we serve, aloving god.
Yes, he is a god of judgment.
Yes, he is a god who you know.
There is the wrath of god thatyou know.
But and we talk about the fearof the lord, but the fear of the
lord isn't so much so like he'sgoing to come and strike me
with lightning and I'm going todisintegrate respect it's the
respect and the awe of who he isyeah, he's the creator.
And I reverence that, and sothat is beautiful, that God is
(48:24):
patient with our learning.
And it says in Galatians 5.1,for freedom.
Christ has set us free and weare free.
In him we are free, we are free, and God speaks more than we
realize, wouldn't you agree, ben?
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Yeah, yeah, it's a process.
Right, it's that a process ofattuning our ears and finding
the shepherd's voice, thequality, the character of who he
says he is, and be able tolisten to it.
So, yeah, it's a process.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
And we're learning to recognize it.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
We are.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
It is a process and then, of course, the goal is
relationship and not performance.
Now, I am an achiever, I am anactivator.
You know, if you look at theEnneagram, which we're not going
into any of that, but a three,like you know.
So that performance drivenpersonality gift mix, you know
(49:14):
some people think Martha was aachiever.
But you see, liz, Well, butMartha was being pulled in all
kinds of directions, right andand when Jesus was correcting
her, he wasn't.
Like you know, oh, martha, sityour butt down.
It wasn't like that Like he's.
Like you know, there is a goodpart, you know come over here
for the good part, and and soit's about relationship.
(49:35):
It's not about checking theboxes.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
That's good.
And you know honestly, likedoing the five minutes a day.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Well, what I'm thinking, benjamin, is that when
you're pursuing me becausewe've been married two decades,
okay, if you're just checkingthe boxes with me, I sense it
and I don't like it I don't youthink God's the same way?
I absolutely do.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
I think that he wants to hear think God's the same
way I absolutely do.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
I think that he wants to hear.
He doesn't like fake.
Well, he wants to hear what'son your heart.
He wants to hear your thoughtsand you know we talk about with
one glance of our eye.
It says in Solomon that he isravished, which, when you read
that word ravished, he'stwirling around and jumping.
So if you think about it, just aglance, if I just glance at you
, just that glance of justacknowledging and just looking,
he is like yes, and so you know,he doesn't just tolerate you,
(50:23):
he likes you Right, he doesn'tjust love you, he likes you.
He enjoys you, he wants to knowyou and he wants you to know
him, and so it's thisrelationship, and it's not about
performance and unfortunately,in this day and age, a lot of
society is all about performance.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
It's true, we live in a very metric and analytic
society.
And so being able to check theboxes is a lot of what we strive
for and I feel like with theLord you can't do that.
He wants your heart right.
It's not just your time, it'snot just your energy.
He wants your heart, he wantsyour desires and he wants to be
pursued Like just what you'resaying, you know, like if I were
to just give you the time andget out and my heart's not with
(51:03):
you.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Well, I sense it.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
You sense it yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah, and vice versa, exactly If I'm just paying my
dues you know and you will.
You know, we keep each otheraccountable in that but the Lord
wants that.
Yeah, yeah, of course he talksabout.
You know, husband and wife arelike that.
Marriage is kind of the example.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
Right Of the body of Christ.
So I think it helps me just tounderstand it in my connection
with him.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Because you're the closest person to me on this
earth.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
So, anyway.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
so what are our takeaways?
Not the goats, oh gosh.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
All those goats.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Scripture takeaways.
All right, let's stop talkingabout ghosts, let's be sheep.
So Psalms 46.10, be still andknow that I am God Right,
creating that space, dialingdown, being still, not being in
a hurry.
Ooh, I get messed up on thatone.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
I get in a hurry a lot of times, the immediate,
yeah, the immediate issues, butbeing still knowing that the
Lord is God so good.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
Psalms 4610.
James 1.5.
If any of you lacks wisdom, lethim ask God, who gives
generously to all, withoutapproach, and it will be giving
them.
And so even in this issue ofrelationship, like let's ask for
wisdom, let's ask for thethings that make our heart comes
alive, like God knows that Godknows our details even more than
we know ourselves.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
He knows all the hairs on your head, yes, and for
some of you, probably your body, cause you're pretty hairy.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yeah, you're lacking it on your head and you got it
other places.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
Well, I was just thinking summer's coming up and
sometimes I'm like whoa that wasa carpet, oh boy.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
So, and then, lastly, proverbs 3, 5 through 6, trust
in the Lord with all your heartand do not lean on your own
understanding and all your waysacknowledge him and he will make
straight your paths.
So, putting God first, puttinghim in that place of primacy,
right, and acknowledging him inall of our ways and just, I
(53:02):
think even being accountable inthat right.
Have some accountability withsome other people.
Hey, you know, are you puttingthe Lord first?
Do you think I'm putting theLord first?
I mean maybe even asking thatquestion, especially if it's
your spouse.
Right Because they might know,they might see some patterns
that you patterns, that might besome things that you got to
bring into your awareness.
But we know that if we trust inthe Lord with all of our heart,
(53:24):
that he won't fail us.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
No.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
And so he will lead us and guide us, and, just like
the sheep that recognize thevoice of the shepherd, we want
to be just like that.
We want to have theunderstanding, we want to know
who God is.
We want to have theunderstanding, we want to know
who God is, we want to know hischaracter so that when he does
speak, when he does lead, we canconfirm it, we can follow it.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Absolutely.
I love this.
Today has been so great.
I love what we've been talkingabout, especially since it's
been something that I have beenstudying out for the last couple
of weeks, and then now it'sbeen a conversation we've been
having and we just broughteverybody else into it.
So pretend that you were justat our kitchen table.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
And it's after dinner and we were eating dessert and
we just got into this bigdiscussion.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
Something good.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Something good.
Something good, and we are sograteful that you are watching
our One Blessed Mess and thankyou for being a part of it today
, because without you, you know,we wouldn't be where we are
right that's right, thank you,thank you, thank you, but don't
forget to subscribe like shareheart.
However you are listening orwatching, we're on all platforms
(54:26):
that you can hear podcasts, andthen, of course, we are on
youtube if you want to see thevideo of our beautiful faces.
Beautiful faces and the looksthat I give ben, or the looks
ben gives me, or ben scienceglasses, when he wears his
science glasses this is good.
Yes, this is true, but alsofollow us on Instagram or
Facebook.
It's our handle, is our oneblessed mess, and we love to
(54:46):
hear from you If there'ssomething out there that you're
like hey, what are your thoughtson this?
We may make an episode.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Yeah, we might.
You should go jump on ourwebsite, our one blessed mess
dotcom.
Feel free to use the contactform there and just give us a
holler and let us know ifthere's something that you'd
like to hear about or you haveany questions.
We'd love to interact with you.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Yeah, and we'd love to hear what you think about
what we talked about today.
How do you primarily feelyou're hearing from the Lord?
Speaker 2 (55:10):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
We would love to hear that, but until next time, we
just want to encourage you toembrace your beautiful mess,
because if our mess can beblessed, what Ben?
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Then so can yours.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Then so can yours.
Welcome to our one blessed mess.
This is Ben and Liz, and we'rehere sharing our story of
raising six kids that we had ineight years, managing an
entrepreneurial home with twobusinesses, homeschooling and
currently navigating life withfour teenagers and we will have
our fifth teenager in about sixto eight weeks.
Oh, my gosh.
(00:27):
Plus, we have seven chickens,two dogs and two goats that are
overtaking my life Like I don'tknow how else to say it Like
these goats are becoming-.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
They're breaking in our house.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
They're literally-.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
They're breaking, they're fugitives.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
They are fugitives and we oh my gosh, it has been
such an adventure with thesegoats.
I mean I never thought that Iwould ever be talking about
goats.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
You talk about them quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I have to because I keep them alive.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
That's what's going on.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
That is what's going on.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Goat herders.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
We're goat herders.
That's right, we're goatherders.
And speaking of herders, what'stoday's conversation topic
about?
Ben?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Today's topic is not about goats, nope, it's actually
about hearing the shepherd'svoice.
It is yes, so basically hearingGod.
We're going to talk about whatit's like to listen to the Lord
and how that dynamic works in abeliever's life, and we're going
to share some stories and tryto be very practical but also
(01:27):
biblical and Holy Spiritcentered, and so we're just
going to do the whole kit andcaboodle with what it's like to
listen to the Lord, because Ifeel like that is a little bit
under fire.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Lately it is, and you and I've been having this
dialogue anyway.
And so we thought, well, let'sjust go ahead and bring it to
the podcast.
Our one blessed mess.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Oh yeah, the goat cast.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
What did you say?
The goat cast, the goat cast.
Oh my gosh.
If you watched my Facebook orInstagram stories today, if you
follow me or follow us, then youwill see Ben being a goat.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
We have a tower garden tire.
Yeah, which is basically whatis a tower garden.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It's an indoor garden and it's a vertical growing
system.
And so we have lights andeverything.
It's got a little water pump.
It's pretty ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yes, it is ridiculous , Our friends who have come over
, they're like.
That reminds me of the Holy ofHolies, because, you have an
indoor and an outdoor one.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
The indoor one is like it's like having a sun in
your kitchen.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, and basically beam me up, scotty, just beam me
up.
I mean, it's so bright, and sothis morning Ben is looking and
inspecting all these plants andI just happened to catch it on
video.
I didn't know you were filming,well, and then I told you I was
like you told me you're filming, so then I act even more crazy.
Yeah Well, he is like eatingthese leaves like a goat, I mean
just shoving them in his mouth.
(02:46):
It's like eight o'clock in themorning.
He's like Anyway, apparentlyhe's part of a herd too.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I am yeah, yeah, he's part of a herd too.
This is true.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
This is perfect for talking about hearing the
shepherd's voice.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
We don't want to use a goat metaphor, because that's
not what jesus used no he used adifferent metaphor.
He used sheep and he calledhimself the good shepherd.
And so that's in john um, or atleast one place that we know,
john yep, and I just want toread that real quick.
So john 10, 3 through 5, andthen also, uh, summing up in 27,
to him, the gatekeeper opens.
The sheep hear his voice and hecalls his own sheep by name and
leads them out.
When he has brought out all ofhis own, he goes before them and
(03:26):
the sheep follow him, for theyknow his voice.
Very key, a stranger.
They do not follow Right, butthey will flee from him.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
They do not know the voice of the strangers.
And at the end conclusion here,my sheep hear my voice and I
know them and they follow me.
It's very concrete, thismetaphor.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Very concrete.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Very concrete.
We should follow the Lordbecause we should know his voice
.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
His voice and that is basically what it is.
Sheep recognize theirshepherd's voice through
consistent exposure and trust.
And I'm just thinking aboutwhen I lived overseas and I
would be on a bus, riding alongin the hills and you would see a
shepherd going up the hillsalong a path that's probably
(04:11):
thousands and thousands of yearsold that had been used by their
ancestors and ancestors.
And as they're going up thesepaths, the sheep literally would
be lined up behind the shepherd.
And it was the coolest thingbecause as the sun was setting
or the sun was rising and thesilhouette hitting the mountains
, it was beautiful.
But do you know what wasrunning around and not in line
(04:31):
with the sheep?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Wait, do we have two of them?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yes, we do Goats.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Goats.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
It was the goats they were running.
Why did we get sheep in?
What were we thinking we shouldhave gotten sheep?
We should have gotten sheep andgoats.
But the truth is is that voicerecognition comes from
relationship, and so theshepherd has relationship with
the sheep and the sheeprecognize and hear the
shepherd's voice, and it's notjust audible sound quality, it's
actually they know his voiceand it can even be a whisper.
(04:57):
Remember that one time wewatched a video where someone
from our church, from thePhilippines, got up and she was
sharing about the shepherd.
Yeah, and you guys, you canYouTube this, go and look it up.
But basically there were allthese people, I guess, who came
to the farm, I don't know, andthere were tons of sheep that
were out there and the shepherdwas telling the people what to
(05:21):
say to try to get the sheep tocome, and so they were saying,
whatever it is, I don't know,bye-bye no.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
No, what would it be?
I don't know what it was.
Here's sheep, here's sheep.
It was something in English.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, it was, I don't remember.
You guys can look it up.
But anyway, all these peopleare standing there and they're
saying it, they're screaming itand not once did the sheep look
up they just kept eating theirgrass, just chewing their
breakfast or their lunch.
But then when the shepherd cameand the shepherd stood there
and the shepherd said the exactsame calls that all the other
(05:54):
people had been doing, it lookedlike a symphony, because all
the sheep lifted up their headsat the same time turned and
looked, I mean literally liftedtheir heads, turned and looked
right at the shepherd andstarted taking off for the
shepherd.
The sheep know the shepherd'svoice and it's amazing because,
you know, sheep actually are notvery intelligent, are they?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Well, they're not known for their intelligence.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
No, they're not known for their intelligence.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
They kind of get stuck in places and wander off
and do silly things.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Right, we kind of went down this long path one
night on like reels of likestupid sheep and they like keep,
like they pull them out of thislike ditch, and then the sheep
goes and like ends up in theditch again, upside down, and
it's like I was thinking, gosh,that's probably me.
I wonder if that's what theLord thinks when he looks at me
(06:44):
Like I just't know, we'retwo-headed sheep.
Just kidding, I don't know,maybe they do have that out
there.
It's so weird.
Yeah, let's not go down thatlist.
That's like.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
That's a sheep trail, not a rabbit trail.
What is she?
Oh boy, I was thinking of what?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
weird stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, that has nothing to dowith the Lord, let's not talk
about that.
No, but while sheep are notknown for their intelligence,
they do have a strong herdinstinct.
And I think this is brilliantbecause even in the past
episodes that we've been talkingabout and being in community,
their defense is being in a herd, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, that part's crazy to to me yes like we, we
started looking up some researchon okay, well, how do sheep
actually defend themselves rightand you know, do they have like
some ability that you know juststands out?
Amongst everything else wherethey play dead yeah yeah, or
something, and what we found isthat, like, really their only
defense is vigilance.
(07:42):
It's like they group togetherright stay together they stay
together, they have goodeyesight, they have good hearing
and they huddle and they fleetogether, and they also do
something else that we found wasreally interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
They conceal something.
They conceal who's hurt.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
They conceal who's hurt Right.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
So that the enemy, whomever it may be a wolf, a
bear, a lion cannot pick themoff.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, so that's.
One of the known tactics ofpredators is to go after the
weak members of the flock.
Right, so sheep have like areally strong ability to hide
their pain and injury.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
And we were like man.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
that's kind of crazy that kind of feels like Jesus
knew what he was talking about.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
You know, and it's so true, because sometimes when
you are hurting, you willisolate and you'll go and not be
in communication, not be, incommunity and the Lord is saying
hello sheep, I put you in thecommunity, I put you in the
family fold to cover you toprotect you Right.
And we're going to get intothat a little bit more just
(08:39):
understanding what it means tohear the shepherd's voice and
what that sounds like, and partof that is being in community,
and so I just think it's sointeresting.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, it's a really cool metaphor.
There's a lot to unpack therethat maybe you wouldn't know
unless you studied sheep.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Well, and there's been people who have gone and
lived with shepherds to studysheep, and then actually there's
books that are out there whichwe haven't read any of them yet.
But there's books that are outthere that you can read and it's
amazing because it's showingwhat it is to be a shepherd and
what it is to be in a herd ofsheep.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Profound, it is profound.
There's some really cool stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Well, before we do that, I want everybody to repeat
after me.
Say I I Am Am A sheep A sheep,so we're sheep A sheep.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
So we're sheep Bye, but this is good.
This is a really good because,just summarizing this real quick
like we learn to develop an earto hear our Savior's voice, so
I think that to me, that was themost powerful part of this
metaphor that Jesus uses.
It's like we don't just startoff and somehow know our
(09:45):
shepherd.
We have to develop thatrelationship, just like a sheep
would right.
There's constant development,there's interaction, there's the
shepherd protecting the sheep,feeding the sheep, guiding the
sheep, and then thatrelationship develops and then
they're attuned.
There's an attunement thathappens.
And I think that's really likewhat it's like to follow our
(10:06):
shepherd's voice.
We have to put the time in,whether that's prayer, scripture
, community worship.
We start to understand thatdistinct tone of God's guidance
in our lives and we start torealize his character and then
it's like, oh, I know his voice.
I'm starting to get that pieceof this relationship where we
(10:26):
over time can develop that ear,that listening ear, that we know
our shepherd's voice.
So that part of it just reallyspeaks to the trustworthiness
that we get of the Lord's voicethrough our experience as we
just follow his leadership inour lives.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
That's right, and so if you're following his
leadership in his life, yourlife, what does that look like?
Like, how do you do thatPractically?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, so here's some practicals.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
So we kind of unpack that metaphor, but really the
main thing, I think that we cankind of utilize, or sorry, one
of the things we can utilize.
One as we listen to the voice ofthe Lord in our lives?
Is his written word right?
So it's through scriptures andthat can sound like a cop-out
answer like okay, yeah, duh, theBible.
(11:14):
That's kind of a no-brainer.
But if you think about it, theexperience of the Bible as
people were writing it, as thestories tell what was happening,
it's literally God speaking toman through prophets, through
circumstances, throughexperiences, through heroes and
(11:34):
sometimes villains.
And yeah, and the apostles andJesus, and so it's like this is
God's word that we can utilizethrough other people, how he's
spoken to other people, and sothis is just a way to connect
with that shepherd's voice, aswe've seen it done through other
people, and it's alive, it'sactive, so it confirms what he's
(11:55):
doing in our life, and so inPsalms it talks about your word
is a lamp unto my feet and alight unto my path, and so
scriptures is really just kindof the foundation that we can
use to discerning God's voice asit relates to his character,
and it's important to like notjust cherry pick verses but to
really study the scriptures andsee what the Lord says about
(12:16):
himself.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Right, which is his character, and I know you drive
that home a lot in our familytime with our, in our devotions
with our kids, because when evenquestions are coming up or
they're seeing certainsituations or circumstances with
their friends or in theirfriend's family and we talk
about.
Well, what is the character ofGod?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Right.
How do you discern thecharacter of God in that
situation?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Right, and it's so important because if we don't
know him, if we don't know hischaracter, we can be taken.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And we can maybe miss his voice.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Absolutely and.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I don't want to miss his voice.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
I want to stay right there with the shepherd, and
that's.
And how do you learn theshepherd's voice except for
hearing it?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
learning it, that experience and that experience.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
So the scripture is a great way.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
It is yeah.
And lastly, just a part aboutthe scripture.
We don't want to just relegateit to Bible knowledge.
Our relationship with the Lordshouldn't just be how much Bible
knowledge you know, and we'renot going to find salvation in
our Bible knowledge, right?
In fact, jesus even referencesthat with the Pharisees in John
(13:20):
5, 37.
I'll just read it real quick,because it's super powerful.
And the Father who sent me hashimself borne witness about me.
His voice you have never heard,his form you have never seen
and you do not have his wordsabiding in you, for you do not
believe the one whom he has sent.
You search the scripturesbecause you think that in them
(13:41):
you have eternal life and it isthey that bear witness about me.
Yet you refuse to come to methat you may have life.
That's a super powerful verseto unpack.
I think you got to be reallynuanced with it.
But essentially, jesus is likeblasting the Pharisees because
their knowledge of the Bible iswhat they trusted in, not
(14:01):
forming a relationship with Godand through Jesus.
So we don't want to fall intothat same trap.
We don't want to just thinkthat having Bible knowledge is
the same thing as having arelationship with God.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
No, because he is actually somebody you have
relationship with and you cancommune with him.
And how does that happen?
How do we have that?
What is the what's the primaryway?
One of my favorites, the HolySpirit.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
The Holy Spirit the.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, let's dive in, let's dive into the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
So I have been studying for a couple of weeks
now on the Holy Spirit and it'sjust like every sermon that I
can find I've been listening toon YouTube and books and
scriptures.
And so when Ben and I werediscussing all this and he says,
hey, I want to talk about theHoly Spirit, I was like, oh, you
do, Okay, Because I've just,I've just been in the midst of
(14:53):
this.
And, and John 16, 13, it sayswhen the spirit of truth comes,
he will guide you into all truth.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
And so you know, ask a question there.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yes, I know what you're going to ask.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
So I, I personally believe, and I think you would
say too, that the Holy Spirit isthe primary way that we
communicate with God.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I think so.
He's the comforter.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I think that the Bible might be the most
practical way, but the HolySpirit is the primary way.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Well, the Lord sent him and Jesus even said that I'm
leaving because I'm sendinganother, which is the primary
way.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Well, the Lord sent him and Jesus even said that I'm
leaving because I'm sendinganother which is the Holy Spirit
, and if Jesus had to leave forthe Holy Spirit to come, like we
know that, that's gotta besuper important, right.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
And he's part of the Trinity.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yes, of course.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Like.
He's the person, the Holy.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Spirit.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Like it's when you start getting into studying
it'll blow your hair back.
Yeah, it'll blow your hair back.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
It's really amazing and in the midst of it, like as
I've been studying the lastcouple of weeks, it's so right,
like it's almost like the glovejust fits.
Yeah, it's right, and I'm nothaving to like and I've always
known Holy Spirit.
I should say that, but it'sbeen neat to study about him.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah, yeah, it's almost like we were made for
communion with him.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Well, we were made for communion with him.
In fact, your body is thetemple for the Holy Spirit.
That's what it says in firstCorinthians six.
But it's also Holy.
Spirit is awful often describedas the inner witness or
spiritual nudging, and I knowsometimes in my study that I've
been, you know, these lastcouple of weeks.
(16:27):
It's like you have people whoare like they just know things,
they feel things, they may seethings, they may hear things.
But that's Holy Spirit and heis bearing witness in that
person.
And it's so neat because thebody of Christ is very vast and
it's not like a one size fitsall and Holy Spirit knows that.
(16:49):
So he's communing with us.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I would venture to guess that we actually have more
Holy Spirit encounters than werealize.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Absolutely.
That's why it's that glove thatfits.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I think so too, and I think, even like the leading of
the Holy Spirit and the guidingit manifests in different ways,
right, like it could be thatstill small voice, it could be
something more grandiose, right,some people actually have just
they hear a voice like a literalvoice.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Some people do Some people do and that's amazing or
dreams and their dream life.
You know there's lots, lots ofbiblical references of dreams
lots and that hasn't stopped.
No, and the Lord is speaking.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
He is speaking through dreams, yeah, yeah, for
sure, and I think we just a lotof times.
It's easy to try to explain itaway, or why do I have this
feeling on you?
Know something I ate, orwhatever, but man, you, more
than anybody else, I think in mylife.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I'm sorry to put you on a pedestal.
I know I'm like wait.
What are you saying?
You?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
have a special relationship with the Lord.
I'm not saying you're hisfavorite, or anything like that.
But I just know that I've seenit, I've witnessed it as your
husband.
I've witnessed that the Lordspeaks to you and I think the
Holy Spirit is the one that'sdoing it.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Oh, I know it is.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
And you've just like you've been able to just
pinpoint something or tell mesomething in the right season or
the right time, and I'm justlike man.
That was the Lord.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Well, and just to kind of.
You know, it's not like Liz issuper spiritual or anything like
that.
No, no, come on.
Anything like that, I mean Ithink they're super special, no,
no, come on.
But I think what it is is justgoing.
Okay, what if this is the Lord?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
You know, and that's why counsel is important.
Communication, you and Icommunicate about it.
I think journaling we're.
We're going to get into a lotof this.
I know I'm kind of skippingahead.
But you're right on time Okaybut like writing it down and
spending time with the lord.
I think in the morning.
Or, and I just want to say, noteverybody can get up in the
morning.
I understand there's seasons oflife where maybe you've been up
(18:53):
all night with a baby andyou're just like I, just want to
sleep.
And then as soon as you wake up,it's like your feet hit the
ground running, and so maybeyour quiet time with the Lord
may only be in the shower orlate at night, once all the kids
are to bed.
But depending on your season oflife and you may not be a
morning person, you might be anight person, but the Lord meets
you where you are.
But if you are journaling andyou spend time in worship, and
(19:16):
then even reading your word, andas you're doing something
that's standing out to you, youjust start writing that down.
Or if you have a thought thatcomes to your mind, write it
down, even if you're thinking Idon't know if this is the Lord,
write it down, because what Ihave noticed is that when I've
worked with people and learningto hear the voice of God, if
they're writing that down,they'll go back to it and be
(19:37):
like whoa the Lord was speakingto me.
Yes, he was, and so I think thatdoubt that comes in it's like a
.
It's a thief and we need to bechildlike.
That's what I'm trying to sayIf we're childlike.
And what is he saying, what ishe speaking?
You know, and it's sometimeslike you, and it's sometimes
(19:57):
like that can be like a littlesystem to help you get to a
place to be able to hear theLord, but then also too, I think
, being in nature getting intobeauty watching children play,
silence, beautiful music andjust he comes.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, creating space, like you're creating space,
creating space and you'reknowing what to look for, I
think is important too.
Yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I was just thinking too in the beginning of this
when we are believers, what isthe difference between a
believer and a non-believer?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Now.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
I get to ask you the question, Ben.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Okay, is this a test?
Because I hope I'm going topass.
I think the difference isrelationship.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
It is.
And so somebody who is abeliever has a relationship with
the living God, the creator.
Somebody who is not doesn'thave relationship.
So if you have two differentpeople believer and non-believer
and they are looking at a joband they're considering this job
opportunity, well, thenon-believer is probably looking
at it logical, trying to seewhat it's going to look like.
(20:56):
But the believer is goingbefore the creator and saying
what is your will?
What do you want, father?
If this isn't, your will shutthe door.
If it is, your will open thedoor.
And then they're gatheringfriends in their community their
pastors or their spouse ornever and they're praying Lord,
help us.
And so the difference is isthat when you are a believer and
you have relationship with theLord, help us?
And so the difference is isthat when you are a believer and
(21:16):
you have relationship with theLord, he knows the future, and
so he knows that that company isgoing to close its doors in a
year or it's going to pick upand move somewhere else go to
Alaska or something you have touproot your whole family.
But when you are listening tothe shepherd and you have that
relationship with a shepherd, itis a benefit.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, it's more than just the logical what's on the
outside.
There's an extra dimension toit.
Right, and you touched on thegodly counsel part, and that's
the third kind of practical waythat we can hear God.
So we talked about through theword through the.
Holy Spirit, which we believeis the primary way, and maybe
(21:56):
the Bible is the most practicalway, but through the godly
counsel.
I think is something that maybesometimes doesn't get utilized
enough.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I feel like if we can be open and vulnerable before
people and even come with aspirit of humility, God really
smiles on that.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
He does, and it's cornenea.
Yeah, it's smiles on that hedoes.
And it's cornenea?
Yeah, it's relationship.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
It is Right and God's about that.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
He is about that, and I think some of the reason why
people do not utilize it isbecause of fear, and they're
afraid of being exposed.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
And hurt too, and hurt.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, and maybe along the way you did that, and you
felt you know, misunderstood ormisheard, and it's so healthy to
be in a healthy community wherethere can be transparency and
doing life together.
And we've moved.
Um, we had community before wegot married.
Then we found community when wefirst got married.
(22:50):
Then we moved after you know somany years in a different
community, built anothercommunity and what we know
pretty much community yeah, ourhome is my gosh especially the
goats oh, mercy these goats.
Anyway, we have more kids, youguys, we added two more kids we
have eight kids the goat kids.
But I'm just thinking like itis healthy to be in community
(23:14):
and to have accountability, butto be transparent for counsel,
because God speaks in that hereally does, he does.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, and even in Proverbs 11, 14, where there is
no guidance, a people fail.
But in abundance of counselorsthere is safety.
And so you know this is just apoint to keep in mind that God
uses lots of different things,and we know that he uses godly
counsel.
It's all throughout scripturesand there's an impetus for us to
(23:44):
connect with like-minded people, with other believers, and so
that is just that third pillar.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
These three pillars the Bible, the Holy Spirit, and
through other godly people.
That's how we practically hearthe voice of the Lord.
There's other things too.
I think.
You could look at circumstancesand maybe a few other things,
but these three, I think, arereally the foundation.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, they're solid as a rock.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, and so let's just jump into one of the times,
and this is one.
There's plenty that I'veexperienced, but the Holy Spirit
helped you one time.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Yes, he did that I'm thinking of.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
I was borrowing a tool.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And it was like a little hoe and I was in the
garden, I was using it to justkind of till up the ground.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
It was a pole digger.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Is that what it was?
It was a post hole, digger Posthole.
That's what it was we needed atill, but we asked, but I was
using that.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
But all we had in our community was a post hole
digger.
Okay, so I was using that tobreak up the ground, which is
really dumb, it was awful andwhere we were in the.
South and we don't haveboulders in our yard We've never
had boulders in our yard.
We didn't grow up with boulders, so you're like out there.
Post hole diggers and I waspregnant with somebody I don't
(25:04):
remember who I was pregnant withand you were out there with
this post hole digger and wewere having to move these
massive boulders out of ourgarden area just to grow a
garden.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
So I'm using that tool and all of a sudden this
little, this little bolt fallsout like a little nut and the
little bolt falls out.
And we had borrowed this.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, I borrowed it and it was like their
grandfathers, yeah it was likesome plus years old and I'm
thinking, oh no, it's like anantique, right.
What were we doing?
What were we thinking?
Speaker 2 (25:36):
so so that happens.
So I like I kind of panicbecause I start looking for it
and of course there's all theserocks and the dirt's all moved
around, and so I'm out therelooking, spend about 10-15
minutes I can't find it.
I mean, I'm not even andmeanwhile I'm inside.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
The sun is setting.
It's getting dark.
You had been at work all dayI've been ready yeah, dinner was
ready.
I remember I had an apron on andI'm like Benjamin, you need to
come inside and eat.
Dinner is going to get cold.
And you're like I can't, I'velost something.
I'm still looking and I'm like,oh, ben, we can find it later.
You're like, no, we borrowedthis.
I want to be a good steward, Ineed to find this, this bolt,
(26:13):
and so, out of my frustration,you come out there and I knew I
kind of actually I think I askedyou.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
I was like hey, can you just pray?
I was like at this point I knewthat you were very sensitive to
the Holy spirit and so I waslike hey maybe, maybe I can use
this to hopefully rectify thissituation.
So I was like Liz, come outhere and pray and just see if
the Lord shows you this bolt andwhat I mean.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
it was like less than five minutes, so I walk out
there, kind of in a huffy, puffyattitude, like, oh gosh, I was
hungry, I'm pregnant, I'm like Igot to eat and we had all these
other kids.
So I get out there and I said,lord, where's this bolt so my
husband can eat dinner?
And all of a sudden I like sawin my mind's eye the picture of
(26:59):
this bowl.
And you had been out there fora long time looking, and so I
just saw this picture and I waslike, oh, it's underneath this
thing.
And so I just looked over and Iwent down and I said, here it
is.
And you're like what I said,don't ask.
I just prayed.
I was like the Lord showed me apicture of where it would be
and let's go eat.
Please put the bolt back inthere.
And we're returning this.
Yeah, this is not what we endedup renting a tiller, which is
(27:21):
what we should have done in thebeginning but we were new, we
didn't know yes, but so that waspretty crazy
Speaker 2 (27:26):
because like it was a big area and there's this
little tiny bowl and you know,the lord showed you.
I don't know it's, it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
But it was awesome, it was super awesome, it's fun.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
And then I'm also thinking about another story
that involves us moving, and wewere in a church service, and
again these are like Holy Spiritfocused, but the important part
is that this one, thisparticular story, has both of us
in it, where we felt the samething.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
The exact same thing.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
So we were in a church service and it was a
crazy thing that we felt theLord tell us, so crazy that I
didn't want to tell Liz.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
And I didn't want to tell Ben.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
And so both of us were kind of like beating around
the bush a little bit.
It was after church service.
We were on our way to eat withsome family members for lunch
and I was kind of like, hey, Liz, did God say anything to you?
Did you sense anything from theLord?
Did you feel something today?
Speaker 1 (28:23):
And I said yes, this is you know.
So when we were in the service,where we were sitting, it was
as if the Lord came and andspoke to us at the exact same
time.
Yeah, almost like whispered inour ear at the same time, you're
moving back to Florida.
And I didn't want to sayanything to him because I
thought, whoa, this is a reallybig deal.
And I remember thinking, lord,if this is you, you have to tell
(28:46):
Ben, because I don't know.
And so when we got in the car,you know, here we are with our
kids, we're leaving to go eatlunch with family both sides of
the family and we share.
He's like well, you go firstand I'm like, okay, so I'm like,
well, I felt like in service atthis part, when the sermon was,
that the Lord mentioned, likehe whispered I want you to move
(29:06):
back to Florida.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, and then you were like and it wasn't on our
radar?
No, or maybe.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Texas or something like that.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
We were thinking everywhere else, yeah,
everywhere else, but back toFlorida, and so for us to both
get that at the same time wewere like whoa that must be
something.
And then we ended up eatingwith family members and then we
were like I don't know if thatwas the Lord.
Yeah, because we went out tolunch and it was like okay.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
A little chaotic and things Right with our kids and
all the cousins and aunts anduncles and the grandparents.
I was like okay, this isoverwhelming, because we had
established our family norms andtraditions and we would come
back and visit.
But then we would go back hometo our peaceable.
What we thought was it wasn'treally peaceable, but I mean,
you know, less chaotic.
And so I remember after thatlunch I was like I don't think I
(29:53):
can do it.
I don't think I can do it.
But the funny thing is, oneweek later, and I'm just going
to share this, and you know,because we're talking about even
dreams how the Lord can speakin dreams.
One week later, we met a friendwith her kids.
I remember it was at Chick-fil-Aand all the kids were playing
in the playground and she wasasking us, you know?
So what do you?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
We're still on that Florida trip, right yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:13):
And she asked she said what do you think about?
You know well, how did she saywhat do you think about having
more children?
And you and I had already madea decision that we were not
going to have any more children.
And she said, okay, and she'slike, well, what do you think
about moving to Florida?
And we were like, no, we're not, you know.
(30:34):
So we had already dismissedwhat we thought was the Lord
from the week before, and cause,we were, you know, there for a
whole week and a half orwhatever, for our vacation.
And I said why are you asking?
She goes, well, I was goingthrough my journals from like
years prior and she had found adream that she had had of us,
and in this dream I had a, I hadfive kids.
(30:58):
And she said, um, and when shehad had this dream, we hadn't
had but four, right and so, um,but she said the there was a
little girl there with big blueeyes.
Um, there are two girls, blaze.
And then she says the next onemust have been baria.
In this dream she had big blueeyes and, um, she said, was
talking up a storm, which atthat time Maria was only like
(31:18):
one and she was talking up astorm like, oh my gosh, I even
Googled can children speak infull sentences at this age?
I mean she was just a big,bright eye and she said I had a
blue blanket or a baby and ablue blanket, wrapped in a blue
blanket, and she goes.
But you were living in Floridaand your yard, she saw our house
(31:39):
and she saw the yard and allthis kind of stuff and we were
like, yeah, no.
Well when we got home, I cleanedout all the baby stuff because
I was like we're not having anymore babies, we're done.
And you know, I was like if, ifthat's a baby that she was
talking about, it's one thatwe're adopting, is not coming
from me, right?
And little did I know, a weeklater, like we got home, we
(32:02):
cleaned it out.
So, after cleaning out maybetwo weeks, then a week or so
later I find out I'm pregnantand it's our youngest.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
And a little boy.
And the funny thing is is herdream.
The house that she saw isactually the house that we're in
.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah.
So I mean that is very how coolis that?
It is cool and you know, ittook us a while to really like
lock in and think, okay, yeah,we are moving back to Florida,
but that dream helped you know,and then also.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
But we didn't even accept her dream, to be honest.
No, it took a while.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
It took a little while.
We're like I don't know aboutthat, and then we just kept
coming back to it and we reallyfelt like the Holy Spirit was
directing and leading us.
And then, even years down theroad, did we not even realize
like, oh, that was really wiseto move when we did.
We found a great house at theprice we did.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
I mean there's a lot of reasons, but the main reason
is and being closer to familyduring COVID.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, reason closer to family during covid, yeah,
but the biggest reason is likewe felt the lord and we knew it
was his wisdom for us to, eventhough we bucked up against it.
We did, yeah, and we were alittle bit more goats than sheep
.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Oh, definitely, and it from that time when we felt
the lord, and then there was afriend that came and brought the
confirmation which we justtotally dismissed, which is
terrible.
Um, it wasn't until two yearslater that we actually moved
yeah.
And so, anyway, all that to say, journaling, counsel, prayer,
he's with us.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
The word, the word.
He is with us.
So some takeaways.
All right, let's dive into sometakeaways.
What are some things that wecan do to discern God's voice,
liz, like what are just somepractical things that?
Speaker 1 (33:36):
we can do to discern God's voice.
Liz, like, what are just somepractical things?
Well, first of all, I feel likethere are four different tests
for discerning or discerning,depending on where you are in
the country is how you say it,right, but to hearing God's
voice, and the first one is whatwe talked about the scripture
test.
Yeah, does it align with God'sword.
Does it align?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
with God's word.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
If it doesn't, you need to dismiss it.
Sure, and also too.
The second one is charactertest.
Does it reflect God's nature?
Truth, and I think you canalmost.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Maybe wrap those two together right, Because the
scriptures should test it.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
But it should ultimately also pass that
character test.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Are we listening to the Lord and are we reading the
scriptures in the right way, sothat his character does come
forward Right?
Speaker 1 (34:22):
And you know it's love, it's truth, it's mercy.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah, it's all the things that he says he is.
It's exactly which is hischaracter.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
And then the fruit test.
I love this one because theBible talks about you will know
them by their fruit, and so ifthere's good fruit, is it
producing love, joy, peace,patience, kindness, goodness,
self-control, gentleness.
You got it, I know.
I think that was all.
I think, it was Galatians 5.22.
That's right, but the thing isis like, if there is fruit and
(34:48):
it is healthy, then that is a go.
Yes, and the last one I wouldsay is community.
And that community test isgoing to do, of course, when
you're doing it among maturebelievers.
But that really I feel a safetywhich we're talking about the
sheep herd, if we're in the herd, you know, and we're
(35:11):
communicating and we have thataccountability in a healthy
community.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Got to remember that, because there are ones out
there that are not healthy, andthe Lord will help you.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
He will guide you, he'll put you into the community
where you're supposed to bloomand blossom.
But if you're using all four ofthose, then by golly the Lord
is probably speaking.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Can I just throw a little caveat out there?
Speaker 1 (35:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Can I just say that all those are great, but that
community test do you?
Think sometimes people look attheir community and see, oh,
it's not perfect.
Oh, absolutely so then maybe Ishouldn't share.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Oh, are you putting a mirror up to your wife?
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (35:50):
I didn't mean to, but I feel like I mean I was just
saying that because I feel likeI have been there and done that
where it's like, okay, god, putme in this community.
It's not perfect, because we'renot perfect, right, and I'm not
perfect, and so I don't knowwhy I get on this high horse
sometimes, but I do, and so I'mlike I'm not going to share that
because I know the proclivitiesof this person.
(36:16):
They might think it's you, don'treally know yeah and so I feel
like that maybe is even a formof pride, like we just got to
humble ourselves sometimes andhumility.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, isn't that a fruit of the spirit?
Just kidding, it's not.
But it should.
Be blessed are the meek.
Blessed are the humble that'strue.
Yeah, it's part of god'scharacter, it is it, and he's
also drawn to humility as well.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
He is, and I should say it's part of Jesus's
character, because we could godown a whole rabbit trail on
this, but I just want to throw a30 second commercial, not a
sheep trail.
Yes, a sheep trail, but God, Ibelieve God doesn't have the
ability to be humble.
He loves humility but, butbecause God is other, than there
(36:57):
are no limitations on God andthere's no way that you could
compare him to something else.
So part of being humble isrecognizing our own limitations.
Can God be humble?
I don't know.
I feel like that's a catch 22.
Jesus can be humble, oh boy.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Oh boy.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
I probably opened up a can of worms.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
I'm like I don't know if we need to go down there,
but we know that he's drawn tohumility.
He is drawn to humility, he'sdrawn and he makes his dwelling
with the broken and the contrite.
Absolutely.
He makes his dwelling.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
And that's what we want relationship.
We want him to and dwell withme.
I want to be available.
And it says in his word thatAbraham was a friend of God.
I want to be a friend of God.
(37:46):
Twyla, paris boy, I'm pullingout some old ones.
I am a friend of God.
Here we go, and if you guysknow that song, you can sing
along with me, okay, so maybesome practical steps in how to
tune or attune our ears to theshepherd right.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
So regular quiet time .
I feel like this is superimportant being able to have
space, solitude, even to be ableto dial down all the other
voices right, the sheep willknow his voice, a stranger will
not follow.
That's what john talks about.
So we have to dial back all theother noises, all the other
influences that are coming at uson a 24 7 basis.
(38:27):
I think we have to make spaceright those regular quiet times,
and that's where we start tolike say god, speak to me here,
I'm creating space for you, I'mprioritizing time with you.
I'm beginning to trust you, toopen myself up to you.
It's got to start somewhere,and so I think those regular
(38:49):
quiet times is where we beginthat journey of listening.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
So, benjamin, tell us , what do you love to do for
your quiet time?
I just feel like it's a reallygreat one.
So I we talked about this inanother episode.
We were talking about familydevotions.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
And so, but maybe just bring it back up, yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
I do this daily office thing and it's a
tradition that is back, I think,in the church fathers, and so
essentially it models thatconcept of the Jewish practice
of praying three times a day,and so they created space three
times a day.
We think that Jesus definitelyfollowed this model as well.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Absolutely, he was up the mountain too.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah, there's countless times where you see in
the scriptures where Jesus isremoving himself so that he can
have solitude so that he canhave time with the father.
So that he can refresh himself,and so I think that's
definitely a pattern that wehave to follow in our own lives.
So I like to do the daily office, which is basically just
reading through scripture threetimes a day prayer and
(39:52):
meditation and so I have somebooks that help me with that.
I have one that's on the Psalms, one that's on life of Jesus
and also one that is the lettersof Paul, and so I switch back
and forth every couple monthsbetween those three.
It's really good because itgives a great cross section of
just some Old Testament, somegospel and then the epistles,
(40:13):
and so I really like chewing onthose three areas.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Can we put a link in the notes?
We can, yeah, yeah.
So I really like chewing onthose three areas.
Can we put a link in the notes?
We can, yeah, yeah.
So that way, if anybody wantsthem, because they are great,
yeah, they're great.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
They come in like a three book series and again it's
three devotions essentiallythat you do every day, and if
you miss one, no big deal, right, you just either get caught up
or you just skip ahead to thenext day.
But the important thing is islike you are creating space.
That's what I love about thispractice is like I'm I'm having
(40:41):
to prioritize time and say like,hey, this is my time with the
Lord.
I'm going to even do it in themiddle of the day, which is
super hard.
And you're an entrepreneur andyou have a family and you have a
wife who needs your attention.
This is true, very true.
And you have goats, the goats,the goats are the worst.
They need my attention all thetime.
But yeah, it's just a matter oflike dialing down and creating
(41:04):
that space and I feel like theLord meets me in that space.
It's really cool and having thatthree times a day is super, I
think, influential, right,Because it's like in the
mornings, in the midday andbefore I go to to bed and so I
feel like my mind is like beingrenewed three times a day, which
is amazing I need it word.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
The word is living in a life.
Yeah, it is, and so, as you'rereprogramming your mind, you're
setting new narrow neuro pathsin your brain.
I mean, we can get into brainscience, but you're not wearing
your science glasses so we can'ttalk about brain science.
Yeah, I guess, skip it.
But no, for real, like you're,you're renewing and you're
feeding your spirit man.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
And so that's the second, that's the second step,
right.
So regular quiet time andthat's the, creating the space
to listen.
Um, and then scripture readingis the second one actually
feasting on the Bible and havingthe scripture be a way to start
recognizing the voice of theshepherd.
Okay so that's where we learnabout his character.
That's the knowing unto therelationship.
(42:04):
So Bible literacy is that.
Second point is like reallystudying about the knowledge of
God who he says he is superimportant and being able to use
that to then follow his leadingRight.
A third one I believe is superimportant is journaling your
impressions, okay.
So, when you feel the leadingof the Holy Spirit, write it
(42:26):
down.
You know Like there are so manyinstances in the Bible where
people set up memorials to theLord.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Different events okay .
Speaker 2 (42:36):
And that's a great way in the Old Testament days to
go back and see what thathappened.
There was like a monument tohow the Lord led through his
spirit even, and saved throughthe situation, and so I feel
like it's imperative that wejournal when we feel the Holy
Spirit moving and guiding anddirecting us to.
(42:59):
Let's put that down, let'smemorialize it and then we can
go back and we can remember that, and I think that's super
important.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
And, if I may, it can also be drawing.
It can be, art.
I love these Bibles that areout there that have big space
for doodling or making notes,and you know something about the
memorializing it.
I'm just thinking of Gilgal.
When the children of Israelcrossed the Jordan after being
in the desert for 40 years, andthey took the stones, the 12
(43:27):
stones from the dry Jordan.
They made a monument at Gilgalbut it says, especially reading
Joshua they go back to Gilgalall the time.
Why?
Because they're human and theyforget.
And I think the Lord knowsyou're human and you will forget
(43:49):
.
And so if you can push past theurge to not write it down and be
faithful to writing it down.
I try to keep my journal withme as much as possible because
the Lord is speaking to us allthrough the day.
I mean it could be even, and Iyou know, it's not just one way.
He is the creator of theuniverse, it's not just all so
like this is how he speaks andthen he speaks like this.
I mean it can be throughnumbers.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
It can be.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
I mean, I keep seeing a certain bird, and so this
blue bird, and it's like everytime I see this certain blue
bird, it's like every time I seethis certain bluebird.
I started looking it up andseeing what does a bluebird mean
?
And it's like something specialbetween the Lord and I.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Yeah, and so journaling that, writing it down
, drawing that, looking up whatwords mean things like that
you're building upon in thatrelationship with him, and it's
just like you taking notes onthings that I like and I'm
taking notes on things that youlike, and so it's part of that.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
It's part of the relationship.
Yeah, you're studying like yeah, I think that's super good.
What you all that you just saidis super important.
I've been keeping a journal forover 20 years and being able to
by the way, some of his earlyjournal entries are really like
before we got married.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah, they're, they're really sweet because
he's like thinking about hiswife and he's like, hey, what's
up, what are you doing today?
I'm thinking about you.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
You're like 14 or 15 oh boy, no, no, it wasn't that
early.
This was like me being hokey.
I was like a 18, 19 year old,yeah well, what's up how you
doing?
Speaker 1 (45:16):
I'm thinking about you today.
I'm praying for you.
Today, I'm praying for you.
It's really cute.
Okay, keep going.
I totally interrupted that,that's okay.
But your other journal thatyou've had, yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
But the journal that I've had and being able to go
back 20 years.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Yeah, I type it.
I type it.
I use a computer.
It doesn't have to be a journalthat you're writing in.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
I'm a computer nerd, necessarily because I don't like
my handwriting, but that'sanother issue.
So being able to type it and Ilove to be also to like because
it's all typed out, I can justkeyword search and go back to
memories and look at things andso that's super helpful and
important to be able to recallthings that have happened and
even dreams and stuff right LikeI'll sometimes.
(45:54):
I'll write down a dream andI'll go back and see maybe it
meant something, maybe it didn't, but like just the fact that
I'm trying to journal I'm tryingto record.
it is way better than just goingthrough life without having any
reference at all from the timespast that God's spoken to you.
So those are three.
The fourth one that I want tomention real quick, when these
(46:16):
again are practical steps tojust tune in or tune ourselves
to the Lord.
The fourth one is havingregular prayer partners.
Okay, so that's that communityaspect and also bringing in our
ears to be able to listen to theLord in community, so that can
be just someone that you'reaccountable with and you pray
together.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Your spouse is a good one.
I think husbands and wivesshould be praying together.
Yeah, for sure, and being ableto share.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
So being able to share to bounce off one another.
This is the impression that I'mgetting.
Will you pray with me about it?
It doesn't necessarily have tobe synchronous, you can pray and
ask someone else to pray intoit, but you're sharing and
you're experiencing God together.
And again, when there's two ormore, that's when the presence
happens.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yes, and it's good, it is good, it's so good, it's
so good, and there's alsofreedom in the process.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
And so God is patient with our learning, like parents
are with children.
We're not looking at our kidswhen they're learning to walk
and going.
What's wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Get up and start running.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Yeah, you're not doing it perfectly.
You're not doing it perfectly.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
God's the same way, right and so when our little one
I'm just thinking of our littleones you know when they're
standing up and they're startingto scoot around the coffee
table.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Yeah, yeah.
It's like keep going, keepgoing, you're doing it, you're
doing it.
Yeah, yeah, hopping their hands.
Come here, come here.
I imagine God being like thatwith us.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
He is joyful and he is joyful, he is joy, yeah, and
he's not looking at us going.
Oh, you didn't write in yourjournal for three weeks.
I'm cutting you off.
That's right, he's not doingthat.
(48:02):
He, he, he is a loving god.
Yes, that's who we serve, aloving god.
Yes, he is a god of judgment.
Yes, he is a god who you know.
There is the wrath of god thatyou know.
But and we talk about the fearof the lord, but the fear of the
lord isn't so much so like he'sgoing to come and strike me
with lightning and I'm going todisintegrate respect it's the
respect and the awe of who he isyeah, he's the creator.
And I reverence that, and sothat is beautiful, that God is
(48:24):
patient with our learning.
And it says in Galatians 5.1,for freedom.
Christ has set us free and weare free.
In him we are free, we are free, and God speaks more than we
realize, wouldn't you agree, ben?
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Yeah, yeah, it's a process.
Right, it's that a process ofattuning our ears and finding
the shepherd's voice, thequality, the character of who he
says he is, and be able tolisten to it.
So, yeah, it's a process.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
And we're learning to recognize it.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
We are.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
It is a process and then, of course, the goal is
relationship and not performance.
Now, I am an achiever, I am anactivator.
You know, if you look at theEnneagram, which we're not going
into any of that, but a three,like you know.
So that performance drivenpersonality gift mix, you know
(49:14):
some people think Martha was aachiever.
But you see, liz, Well, butMartha was being pulled in all
kinds of directions, right andand when Jesus was correcting
her, he wasn't.
Like you know, oh, martha, sityour butt down.
It wasn't like that Like he's.
Like you know, there is a goodpart, you know come over here
for the good part, and and soit's about relationship.
(49:35):
It's not about checking theboxes.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
That's good.
And you know honestly, likedoing the five minutes a day.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Well, what I'm thinking, benjamin, is that when
you're pursuing me becausewe've been married two decades,
okay, if you're just checkingthe boxes with me, I sense it
and I don't like it I don't youthink God's the same way?
I absolutely do.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
I think that he wants to hear think God's the same
way I absolutely do.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
I think that he wants to hear.
He doesn't like fake.
Well, he wants to hear what'son your heart.
He wants to hear your thoughtsand you know we talk about with
one glance of our eye.
It says in Solomon that he isravished, which, when you read
that word ravished, he'stwirling around and jumping.
So if you think about it, just aglance, if I just glance at you
, just that glance of justacknowledging and just looking,
he is like yes, and so you know,he doesn't just tolerate you,
(50:23):
he likes you Right, he doesn'tjust love you, he likes you.
He enjoys you, he wants to knowyou and he wants you to know
him, and so it's thisrelationship, and it's not about
performance and unfortunately,in this day and age, a lot of
society is all about performance.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
It's true, we live in a very metric and analytic
society.
And so being able to check theboxes is a lot of what we strive
for and I feel like with theLord you can't do that.
He wants your heart right.
It's not just your time, it'snot just your energy.
He wants your heart, he wantsyour desires and he wants to be
pursued Like just what you'resaying, you know, like if I were
to just give you the time andget out and my heart's not with
(51:03):
you.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Well, I sense it.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
You sense it yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah, and vice versa, exactly If I'm just paying my
dues you know and you will.
You know, we keep each otheraccountable in that but the Lord
wants that.
Yeah, yeah, of course he talksabout.
You know, husband and wife arelike that.
Marriage is kind of the example.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
Right Of the body of Christ.
So I think it helps me just tounderstand it in my connection
with him.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Because you're the closest person to me on this
earth.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
So, anyway.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
so what are our takeaways?
Not the goats, oh gosh.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
All those goats.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Scripture takeaways.
All right, let's stop talkingabout ghosts, let's be sheep.
So Psalms 46.10, be still andknow that I am God Right,
creating that space, dialingdown, being still, not being in
a hurry.
Ooh, I get messed up on thatone.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
I get in a hurry a lot of times, the immediate,
yeah, the immediate issues, butbeing still knowing that the
Lord is God so good.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
Psalms 4610.
James 1.5.
If any of you lacks wisdom, lethim ask God, who gives
generously to all, withoutapproach, and it will be giving
them.
And so even in this issue ofrelationship, like let's ask for
wisdom, let's ask for thethings that make our heart comes
alive, like God knows that Godknows our details even more than
we know ourselves.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
He knows all the hairs on your head, yes, and for
some of you, probably your body, cause you're pretty hairy.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yeah, you're lacking it on your head and you got it
other places.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
Well, I was just thinking summer's coming up and
sometimes I'm like whoa that wasa carpet, oh boy.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
So, and then, lastly, proverbs 3, 5 through 6, trust
in the Lord with all your heartand do not lean on your own
understanding and all your waysacknowledge him and he will make
straight your paths.
So, putting God first, puttinghim in that place of primacy,
right, and acknowledging him inall of our ways and just, I
(53:02):
think even being accountable inthat right.
Have some accountability withsome other people.
Hey, you know, are you puttingthe Lord first?
Do you think I'm putting theLord first?
I mean maybe even asking thatquestion, especially if it's
your spouse.
Right Because they might know,they might see some patterns
that you patterns, that might besome things that you got to
bring into your awareness.
But we know that if we trust inthe Lord with all of our heart,
(53:24):
that he won't fail us.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
No.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
And so he will lead us and guide us, and, just like
the sheep that recognize thevoice of the shepherd, we want
to be just like that.
We want to have theunderstanding, we want to know
who God is.
We want to have theunderstanding, we want to know
who God is, we want to know hischaracter so that when he does
speak, when he does lead, we canconfirm it, we can follow it.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Absolutely.
I love this.
Today has been so great.
I love what we've been talkingabout, especially since it's
been something that I have beenstudying out for the last couple
of weeks, and then now it'sbeen a conversation we've been
having and we just broughteverybody else into it.
So pretend that you were justat our kitchen table.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
And it's after dinner and we were eating dessert and
we just got into this bigdiscussion.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
Something good.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Something good.
Something good, and we are sograteful that you are watching
our One Blessed Mess and thankyou for being a part of it today
, because without you, you know,we wouldn't be where we are
right that's right, thank you,thank you, thank you, but don't
forget to subscribe like shareheart.
However you are listening orwatching, we're on all platforms
(54:26):
that you can hear podcasts, andthen, of course, we are on
youtube if you want to see thevideo of our beautiful faces.
Beautiful faces and the looksthat I give ben, or the looks
ben gives me, or ben scienceglasses, when he wears his
science glasses this is good.
Yes, this is true, but alsofollow us on Instagram or
Facebook.
It's our handle, is our oneblessed mess, and we love to
(54:46):
hear from you If there'ssomething out there that you're
like hey, what are your thoughtson this?
We may make an episode.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Yeah, we might.
You should go jump on ourwebsite, our one blessed mess
dotcom.
Feel free to use the contactform there and just give us a
holler and let us know ifthere's something that you'd
like to hear about or you haveany questions.
We'd love to interact with you.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Yeah, and we'd love to hear what you think about
what we talked about today.
How do you primarily feelyou're hearing from the Lord?
Speaker 2 (55:10):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
We would love to hear that, but until next time, we
just want to encourage you toembrace your beautiful mess,
because if our mess can beblessed, what Ben?
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Then so can yours.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Then so can yours.
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