January 18, 2025 • 36 mins
(Welcome to our new podcast! We are dropping 4 episodes initial but stay tuned for a weekly release every Friday.)
What if the secret to a harmonious household with six kids lies in the seemingly old-fashioned concept of first-time obedience? Discover how our chaotic, stressed-filled home turned into a place of peace and respect as we share our transformative journey with this strategy. Join us as we recount the vibrant, sometimes overwhelming, atmosphere of raising children close in age and how we stumbled upon the parenting technique that changed everything.
Learn the ins and outs of implementing first-time obedience without turning your kids into robots. We'll tackle the potential pitfalls of this approach, sharing personal anecdotes and practical tips to maintain authority while nurturing independent thinking. We highlight the importance of swift responses, especially in safety situations, and offer humorous tales, including one about our daughter's theatrical defiance over a mundane task.
Embrace life's beautiful messiness with us as we explore the blessings hidden in imperfections. Our tales of Sunday brunches and cherished family traditions reveal how consistent routines can reinforce positive behavior and prepare kids for public settings. By the end of this episode, we hope to inspire you to see challenges as growth opportunities and encourage you to connect with us on Instagram at @our1blessedmess for more updates and inspiration. Let's find the beauty in our unique and blessed mess together!
Your Listening to our 1 blessed mess, with ben and liz
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Liz (00:08):
Okay, welcome to our One Blessed Mess with Ben and Liz,
and we are so excited thatyou're here today because we are
telling our story of raisingsix kids in eight years while
having an entrepreneurial home,homeschooling and also currently
raising four teenagers Fourright Soon to be how many then
(00:29):
Soon to be five, soon to be five.
Ben (00:31):
Yes, it's still crazy to think about that.
Liz (00:34):
It is because it's so loud in our house.
Ben (00:37):
It is.
Liz (00:37):
We thought it was really loud when the kids were little,
which it was loud when they werelittle, but now that they're
older it's like booming menvoices.
Ben (00:45):
Man voices screaming, yes.
Female voices screeching voices, women voices yeah, it's like
not little kid cute voicesanymore.
It's like no oh my gosh, thatlike splits my ear.
Liz (00:56):
Yeah, it gets oh yeah, and it gets pretty loud and then
like the logic as they'reforming, their logic is quite
hilarious and also, too, is justlike big feet and flappy arms
and I feel like laughing, butit's true.
Well, they're just like they'renot because they're growing so
fast, it's like their arm likego go gadget arms.
Like it's too big for theirbodies too big for their bodies
(01:18):
and for the riches, but no,seriously, like it's.
It's very interesting becausethey're still like puppies in a
way.
You know they think they're allbig and bad, but really they're
super tender.
And somebody gave me some greatadvice about teenagers this mom
who had 10 kids and this isback when the kids were really
(01:38):
little and I was so nervous Ijust kept thinking what is it
going to be like?
It's going to be, you know, isit going to be terrible?
Ben (02:06):
no-transcript they might look done, but on the inside not
so much.
Liz (02:13):
They're not so much.
Ben (02:14):
Got to bake a little longer .
Liz (02:15):
Yeah, they got to bake a little.
Yes, they got to bake a littlelonger.
And then also too, you know,they are trying to formulate
their ideas and all that kind ofstuff and it's really a fun
stage.
I mean, somebody has asked merecently I forget where I was I
think it was a grocery store,because I'm at the grocery store
and they said you know what isit like with teenagers?
And I said it's awesome.
I've loved every stage of ourchildren growing up.
(02:38):
There has not been a stage thatI haven't enjoyed.
I mean, yeah, I didn't enjoysleepless nights and the puking
and some of those kind of things, but I've enjoyed them
developing and growing in everyage and every stage, and there's
not one that I've not enjoyed.
You know, and I think it's allabout perspective, but this is
not what we're talking abouttoday.
This is such a rabbit trail.
Ben (02:59):
We're known for the rabbit trails.
Liz (03:01):
Yeah, we're known for the rabbit trails, but what we have
to talk about today is prettyawesome.
I mean, it's a good topic.
Ben (03:07):
Well, it's slightly controversial.
I guess you could say yeah, weare going to be talking about
obedience, okay, so that's ourbig topic today.
Yep, we might do two episodeswith this.
I'm not sure, it just dependson how we go with this first one
, but there's a lot of contenthere and there's a lot of nuance
too, so we want to take ourtime with this.
We want to try to explain thisconcept of first-time obedience.
(03:31):
That's specifically what wewant to talk about.
Liz (03:33):
F-T-O.
Ben (03:35):
F-T-O first-time obedience.
Liz (03:36):
F-T-O.
Ben (03:37):
You might not have heard of that before.
You might be thinking what isfirst-time obedience?
Liz (03:40):
Well, I'm glad you may be thinking that, because we are
going to try to answer thatFirst time obedience is Wait
before you jump into that,before you jump into the
definition of it, I just want tosay that what we're about to
share is something that we wishwe had learned early on, when we
were raising our kids.
We did not know about thisuntil probably, I mean, we had
(04:04):
four or five kids, yeah, andthere was like a whole group of
them, yeah, and we aredefinitely outnumbered, way
outnumbered.
Ben (04:12):
But even when there was a group of them, we're still
talking about what like six andunder.
Liz (04:15):
Yeah, age-wise, yeah, age-wise, probably four or five
and busy, busy, busy lives withraising and all the things that
that involves and we were tryingto figure it out.
He had his experiences and howhe was raised.
I had my experiences and how Iwas raised.
Ben (04:33):
We were in some parent.
Liz (04:34):
Yeah, family of origin.
We were in some parenting books.
We did a parenting class at ourchurch.
We're still trying to figure itout and then we landed on this
and I wish that I had knownabout this earlier because it
would have made things easier.
But I just want to say to ouraudience like, don't feel
pressure.
You know, take this before theLord, pray about it, do some
more research, talk it over withyour spouse.
(04:57):
If you're a single parent, youknow, find someone that you can
discuss this with, and maybeanother single mom and kind of.
You know, talk it through.
But we're just wanting to passon some gold nuggets.
We're wanting to pass on somepearls that we discovered in the
midst of all the muck and themire that has changed our family
.
Ben (05:16):
I mean literally changed our family Do you want me to
tell them what it is?
Liz (05:19):
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
Ben (05:22):
So the definition of first time obedience, as we understand
it at least now there could bemultiple is basically to train
your child to obey you the firsttime an instruction is given.
And you might think, oh, thatsounds kind of prosaic, or you
know outdated, or you know tooauthoritarian, or insert
whatever you think about it andthat might be right, like yeah,
(05:43):
it might be a little oldfashioned, but here's what it
affords us.
Let's go into the pros and consand we'll let you decide, like
is this right for you and yourfamily or not?
We found that it was.
It completely transformed ourfamily and helped us live a lot
less stressful life.
Liz (05:59):
Much more peace.
Much more peace.
Like way like stress level Jumpinto the pros.
Yeah, the stress level totallycame down.
So, yeah, peace, much morepeace.
Like way like stress level Jumpinto the pros.
Ben (06:06):
Yeah, the stress level totally came down.
So yeah, peace.
Number one for us wasestablishing a culture of peace
and safety through obedience.
That sounds crazy, but if yougive it a little time you might
understand how that would workright.
Think about our situation.
We had roughly four children.
I think it was four children,it might've been three.
I mean, you're pregnant withthe fourth.
Liz (06:24):
Who knows?
Ben (06:25):
I don't remember exactly when we established this.
I was always pregnant, but itwas right around that time,
right and so having childrenthat are five and younger, and
then all try to be on the samepage and all try to obey one of
us parents because, let's faceit, you were home with the kids
a lot.
Obey one of us parents because,let's face it, like you were
home with the kids a lot, andthen, when you weren't there, I
(06:46):
was there with the kids, and sowe were trying to like not feel
overwhelmed and outnumbered.
Liz (06:52):
Right.
Ben (06:53):
With all these children running around and we're the
ones responsible for them andthey don't know safety.
Liz (07:00):
They don't know these things that adults know Well and
also, like you, don't want tohave to keep repeating yourself.
I think, yeah, you can kind ofgo crazy and then, before you
know it, you're like you'rehitting octaves that you don't
want to hit.
And I mean, I know you peopleout there watching this or
listening to this definitelyknow what we're talking about,
and so it's like we've got tochange this, because I don't
(07:21):
like who I am.
I don't like who I'm becoming.
What can?
Ben (07:24):
we do.
Liz (07:24):
Nobody's listening to me, I didn't even want to listen to
me.
You know, and and and,truthfully, like I wanted to be
able to go to a store, and we'vetold you before, in a previous
episode, that we have a son thatwas diagnosed with autism, and
so you know his processing.
You know my eye has to be onhim because he was a runner.
He would run.
And as soon as we got out of thecar I'd have to hold on to him.
(07:45):
I mean, it was just.
It was hard, hard season and webegan to actually start praying
and asking the.
Lord to help us.
Like how can we parent our kids?
And this fell into our lap.
So the pros are.
It gives you peace and safety.
It gives it Because there's aclear expectation.
Ben (08:06):
So that's another pro is a clear expectation.
You're training your childrento respond and be responsive, um
, and then there's alsoconsistency, right?
So like if I'm telling someoneto do something and expecting
that it to be done immediately,that's different than like when
you're talking to a kid and yougive them an instruction, they
don't do it.
You know, I'm counting to theman instruction they don't do it.
Liz (08:25):
I'm counting the three, then no, how about 10?
They still don't do it.
How about the 10?
Ben (08:27):
There's not this consistency where I say it it
should be done.
I'm not going to play a gamewhere I'm going to try to
incentivize you to obey me.
It should be obeyed the firsttime I do it.
And again, we're talking aboutsmall kids here.
Liz (08:41):
Yeah, it's a little bit different.
We want to set the expectation,yeah, yeah.
Ben (08:44):
Yeah, this doesn't necessarily happen now that the
kids are 15.
There's definitely moredialogue and there's more give
and take, and sometimes itdoesn't make sense for them to
obey me the first time because Idon't have all the details
right.
Right so they come back to meand say, dad, listen, I know you
said this, but this is reallywhat's happening.
Oh okay, yeah, totally, youknow I'm sorry, and it's
relationship.
Liz (09:04):
We'll get into teen years, and all that too at some point
in time.
Ben (09:07):
But but, really you know when it's a foundational and
when it's with young kids, theexpectation is that they obey
immediately, because you're ableto see things, you're able to
be aware of things, that they'rethere, you know they're small
enough to there.
They don't have that, thathistory or to understand, or
just the life experience.
So three things we've talkedabout so far establishing a
(09:31):
culture of peace and safety,clear expectations, consistency
when directives are given, andthen also this one's going to
sound like the bad word, butlearning about authority Ooh Ooh
authority, ooh Ooh authority.
Mufasa, shaking my boots.
Mufasa Say it again Mufasa OohAuthority.
(09:52):
Okay, that word gets misusedand we understand it right, we
do, and it's been abused.
There's a lot of bad authorityfigures out there and it's
unfortunate that we have thatUnfortunate.
However, if you try to run afamily without any kind of
authority, it's a madhouse guys.
Liz (10:11):
It is a complete madhouse and you have a very stressed out
parent, or parents, verystressed out Like we.
We just know.
Maybe you can do that with one.
Ben (10:23):
You definitely can't do it with the six, and even and guys
listen, sometimes we don't wantto jump ahead to too much, but
in our story we we have a storyabout a kid we think of as a
family of just one, or maybethere was two, one on the way,
but this kid was out of controland didn't understand authority.
Anyways, we'll leave that,we'll get to it.
Liz (10:45):
Yeah, we'll get to that.
So some cons.
Ben (10:46):
Let's throw in some cons.
If it's done incorrectly thisconcept of first time obedience,
if it's overblown or outdone,or if you only relate to your
kid in first time obedience andthey're 15 or even 18.
Yeah, something's going on,Something's wrong here.
Liz (11:04):
Well, you haven't, you haven't gotten past like.
Ben (11:07):
You haven't transitioned.
Liz (11:08):
You haven't transitioned Like it's different when they're
yeah, we'll get into that.
Ben (11:11):
So one con can be that it is perceived as like
militaristic Right Like you.
It's something you might see inan army, a chain of command
where, where there's a clearauthority and a clear structure
and so families obviously can'tbe run like a military.
We understand that we're notadvocating for that, and so it
can be perceived as militaristicand so you've got to work
(11:31):
around that.
So what's the number two,another con?
Yeah, what do you think?
Liz (11:35):
Oh, basically you're creating robots.
Ben (11:37):
Yeah, if you never progress beyond the first time obedience
, the first time directive,listening and responding and all
that, and that's all your kidknows, right.
Liz (11:47):
Yep.
Ben (11:48):
And that's only how they relate to you is through
obedience.
Then you're essentiallycreating a little robot.
Liz (11:54):
A robot and we are raising not human robots, we're raising
human beings, so this is just tohelp them develop, so they're
safe and they can actually getto develop.
I mean, there's so many stories, yeah, and then go ahead.
Ben (12:10):
Third, it can also be repressive, right?
So if you only relate tochildren in this first time
obedience concept, the kid mightnot be able to express their
true feelings or get to thebottom of things.
And then fourth, real quick, isthat it's too simplistic.
I think it's.
The idea behind all these consis that if you just camp out on
this first time obediencepremise and you never go beyond
(12:32):
that, then you're not trulydeveloping the child.
Liz (12:35):
So it looks like it's too simplistic.
Ben (12:37):
Yeah, it can look like it's too simplistic.
So what we propose is thisconcept of first time obedience
be the foundational layer thatyour kid understands who you are
as the authority in the family.
They understand that theirwillpower doesn't supersede
yours.
Right, and that's healthy,because we feel that's a great
(12:58):
way to learn about selfishnessand it's also a great way to
know that we're not the centerof the universe.
Too much I think this is justmy opinion too much of how we
parent today is coddling ourkids and we want them to feel
loved.
We want them to feel nurtured.
I'm not saying that feelnurtured Absolutely.
(13:19):
I'm not saying that that'swrong.
Liz (13:21):
Absolutely.
Ben (13:21):
But we also want them to understand that they aren't the
driving force in the universe,that there are others besides
them, and also that as they growup and as they realize, like
hey, in this dynamic of thefamily the parents are the
primary lawgiver, if you willRight, right.
(13:44):
That's the authority structureand that's important to
understand, because in societyyou want healthy individuals who
obey laws and who submit toauthority, and it's even
biblical to submit to authority.
You know there's verses in theepistles that talk about
submitting to the authorities.
It's a God-given authority andthat it's our right or sorry,
(14:05):
our responsibility to pray andto submit to those authorities.
And so we want to make surethat we are raising healthy
children, obviously, childrenwho are creative and who are
self-starters and are thinkers.
Obviously children who arecreative and who are
self-starters and are thinkers,and we don't want to obviously
just make them obedient.
No we want to start withobedience.
(14:25):
There has to be a foundationbefore we can move on and
realize what some of these otherdevelopment issues are.
Liz (14:33):
Right, and you know, I'm just thinking back to our
experience with raising allthese little ones and you ones,
and just having that foundationit makes the kids feel safe,
they know what's expected ofthem and they know how to act in
situations and they learn thatwhen I say something, I mean it.
(14:54):
When I say stop, there's areason why I said stop.
They don't get to turn aroundand debate as they're running
into traffic, right, I say stop,they have to stop, yeah, and
there are some things that I did, like when we were growing up.
I mean, I think you kind oflaid it out like what a first
time obedience is, you know, andwe want to say we're not
psychologists, we're notpsychiatrists, like you know.
(15:15):
We're just a mom and a dad thathappened to have a very large
family, not as big as some ofour friends have.
Some of our friends have manymore kids, you know.
But we, you know, figured thispiece out and we want to pass it
on if it serves you, right, andso I'm thinking of some ways
that I started out with.
You know, when we got thisconcept, we learned about first
(15:35):
time obedience, which basicallyis is when we say it the first
time you do it.
Ben (15:39):
Right, so so how do you?
So let's talk aboutimplementing that.
Liz (15:43):
Well, there's a song.
What's the song?
I don't know it's like thisslow oh BD and says no obedience
, okay, so if you're slow toobey, is there a dance too?
I mean, I made that up likeright here while I was sitting
with you Slow obedience is noobedience.
Ben (16:01):
Maybe we shouldn't dance.
Liz (16:02):
Okay, maybe not Okay.
So, especially for our friendsthat are not watching the
podcast, maybe listening.
Ben (16:08):
Yeah, what were they doing?
Liz (16:09):
Just delete that from your brain, All right.
So that's true, though, Becauseif you're slow to obey and I
see parents have friends andwhat's at stake- right, yeah.
Ben (16:23):
I think we need to set the stage.
So when you're small and you'reslow to obey, so let's say like
a toddler, maybe even three andfour, yep, you could be running
out.
In the street Right Like Zeke.
You could be running out in thestreet right or about to touch
something like a stove, or aboutto go down some some place that
you're not supposed to or youknow.
(16:45):
Danger, I think is the contextthat I'm trying to set here is
like when there's that slowobedience, then it could
actually be harmful if the kiddoesn't respond quickly.
Liz (16:55):
Right?
Well, there's an example.
So we have a friend who's inthe medical field and we just
went and saw him and he wastelling us you know, we were
telling him we're doing thispodcast, our One Blessed Mess,
and he goes I know what oneepisode is that you should speak
about and I said, oh, really,what he says.
How about first time obedience?
I thought, oh, it's socontroversial, really.
(17:15):
And he said, no, I'm going totell you why.
Because he was just on holidaywith his family and with some of
his brother and his wife, sobrother and sister-in-law, and
they had a great time.
They're finishing up and shewent to give him a hug and when
(17:39):
they hugged she had a wine glassin her hand and it dropped and
it broke and glass wenteverywhere, all over the kitchen
and the little boy who ourfriend told us he's like hey, he
doesn't really listen.
And obey, um, you know they,they they're literally screaming
at the top of their lungs toget this kid to do anything.
They're counting all this kindof stuff.
And I thought, oh, I know I'vewitnessed that.
(17:59):
And as this child was runningin, she said stop and he just
kept coming.
She said stop and he just keptcoming.
He's barefoot, he's about towalk into the glass.
He's like six, seven years old.
And finally, our friend saidthat she had this mom had to hit
decibels that were so high.
(18:19):
She's like stop.
I said stop, you're going tostep in class.
And it just unnerved the wholefamily.
Then the kid listened.
Now there has to be somewherealong the way there has to be
where you don't have to get tothat.
And I get it.
I was there.
You know I'm not saying, youknow it's been all perfect, but
(18:43):
I understand that because youknow I want, when I say, stop my
kids, stop Cause they know I, I, for some reason they trust me
that I know what I'm talkingabout you know and listen
because of training.
Ben (18:56):
Yeah, it's cause of training.
So why don't you talk aboutlike um?
Liz (19:00):
how we did it.
Yeah, like some of the waysthat I did it.
Ben (19:02):
Yeah, I remember you mentioning like the red light,
green light, kind of thing,right.
So, yeah, no, no, no, that'sgood.
Liz (19:08):
So, you know, Ben was working when the kids were
little, he was gone and so I wasat home for many, many hours
with these kids and we lived ina very cold state, that actually
with snow, and so I'd be snowedin sometimes for days.
So you know, you kind of needsome help and we were praying
about it.
What should we do?
I didn't like you know all theyelling and the screaming to get
(19:31):
kids to pay attention,especially with multiple kids.
And finally we found this and Istarted thinking about ways
that I can implement it.
And so our son that we've toldyou about, who has the diagnosis
, he was a runner and you know,he because of his processing
(19:51):
being a little bit different andhow he perceives things,
obviously the way that I wasdoing with the other kids wasn't
the same way that I could do itfor him.
And so I'm thinking how canbecause he almost got hit a
couple of times in the parkinglot, I'm telling you I would
have, you know, four kids getthe baby out in its bucket seat,
get the toddler in the seat,you know, locked in.
(20:12):
I put one kid on, you know,holding on the car seat, I mean
the cart, and then I'd have himand I'd have to get him last and
hold his hand.
But sometimes, you know,there's other things going on.
He'd break and he'd just takeoff running Cars are backing in
and out.
I mean it was terrifying.
And this is before you guys,they had like grocery pickup and
now you can Instacart yeah,Instacart, and you can door dash
(20:41):
, you know, milk to your door.
I didn't have that luxury rightand I didn't have any family at
the time living in the areawhere we were living, so it was
very minimal help.
It was on me to go get the milkand the cheese and the things
that we would need.
Anyway, because sometimes yourun out of stuff life.
So I thought about playing redlight, green light.
Any of you ever play red light,green light in elementary
school?
I thought, okay, that would begreat, and so I would go on
(21:05):
walks with my kids and pushingthe stroller and we would play
red light, green light, and itwas fun for my kids, but what it
was doing was training them tolisten to my voice.
And so I say red light, andthey all stop Green light.
They all run Red light, stopGreen light, run.
It was also a great way to getout energy, but it was a fun way
and it was training.
That's really what it was.
It was training to learn mom'svoice.
And so then I would startsaying things like go, and they
(21:27):
would run and say stop, becauseit wasn't just red light, green
light, now it was I'm commandingyou to stop, and they knew my
voice.
Then the other way that Ireally enjoyed doing this one
this one was really fun is whenthey were all little.
We talked about being the armyand you know what do you do in
the army?
You're good soldiers and youlisten to the commander.
Okay, so this is.
(21:48):
It was kind of like Simon says,but it would be like all right,
everybody get ready.
You're going to pick up 10 toysand put them in the bin, you
know, because the rooms would bea wreck, or I'm like okay, now
you're going to stand here,you're going to jump up and down
, you know.
So it was kind of like um Simonsays, and then what it was is
they were listening to me andthey.
It was a fun play to learn andwe would have lots of
(22:11):
conversations.
You know where it'd be like.
Okay, guys, remember, todaywe're going to practice first
time obedience.
When mom says, do it, you do itthe first time.
Do you do it the second timeafter I ask you no, you do it
the first time, because slowobedience is no obedience.
So when mommy says, go get yourshoes on, you go get your shoes
on.
Ben (22:28):
Yep.
Liz (22:31):
I don't have.
I don't have the brain space.
I don't have the wherewithal tohave to keep coming back and
say why don't you have yourshoes on?
I've told you three times thatis energy, that is exhausting
and it's too much.
So putting this first timeobedience in place and there
could be a lot more other funways to work with your kids, to
(22:51):
train, but they're learning myvoice and learning consistency
in what I say.
I mean it.
Ben (22:57):
And we've seen times where it's not consistent and when you
notice a parent that has tokeep repeating themselves, and
typically it's not like a goodcrescendo, right, like it's a
repeating, and then it's alouder or more intense and then
it's like even more and thenit's like anger, and we don't
want to be parents like thatright.
(23:18):
We don't want to have to figureout ways to incentivize our kids
to obey, we want it to beautomatic and immediate, and if
we start with that point right,it just brings so much more
consistency and we don't have toworry about being stressed out
and our emotions being spent.
So that's the real benefit fromthis type of parenting style,
(23:38):
or this exercise and obedienceis that you get so much less
stress.
Liz (23:45):
Yeah.
And we were able to take ourchildren out to eat, even on our
own.
So like this was somethingreally cool.
Ben (23:51):
Right, this is super cool we would be able to take six
kids to a restaurant byourselves while they're young.
Liz (24:01):
Yeah, you guys we're talking like six kids, eight and
under, even after Ethan wasborn going out to dinner and the
kids are sitting there happily.
Now they're normal kids,they're spilling milk and
there's all kinds of thingshappening.
Ben (24:15):
But I mean we and we would do it by ourselves occasionally,
because either you were workingor I was working, and there
were times where we needed to beout of the house and we had to
take all of our kids.
Or I was out of town and youhad them all by yourself, yeah,
and so that happened a lot asthey were growing up and we were
able to manage six children byourselves and we would go in to
(24:40):
stores, we would go out to eat.
Everybody would obey.
If there was someone cutting up, we would just say hey, listen,
don't do that.
And they would obey.
Liz (24:48):
Or we would say remember first time obedience.
So I want you to put your chairdown and stop rocking it,
because I'm afraid you're goingto rock out of your chair.
I mean just simple littlethings, and we have more to
share I know we're.
Ben (25:05):
I'm wondering if we should wrap it up.
Oh yeah, because we might haveto do a part two.
Yeah, let's do one story andthen maybe okay we can break
there um, and do you want totalk?
Liz (25:12):
about.
I'm thinking of one.
So when the kids were little wewould go to um a and then after
church we would frequent thisrestaurant often because it was
like a brunch lunch kind ofplace a popular place that we
love, and mainly we went therebecause the food would come out
so fast and while you're waitingthey have free coffee.
So we would strap the kids in.
(25:35):
They'd be watching a movie andwe'd park right in front waiting
for our name to be called and Igo get a cup of coffee for him,
a cup of coffee for myself, andwe kind of have like a mini
date before we actually go inand have our lunch for Sunday
and we would come in.
I mean, you know we went therefor four or five, maybe even
longer, six years, I don't knowconsistently.
So so this the wait staffwatched us raise our kids,
(25:58):
watched me be pregnant, watchedme come in with more kids.
I mean it was like they were allpart of the story of our clan
growing right Our tribe and thekids.
We would train them at home sothat when we came out in public
it wasn't like a fiasco.
Ben (26:15):
So that's important, right yeah, is making sure that you
don't try to train when you'reactually out.
Yeah, you know like you want aconsistent place to do this type
of training and maybe we can gointo just a little bit of like
the actual training and maybe wecan pause after that.
So what she's talking about islike when we were out, we
(26:37):
developed this habit at home andso we would practice, we'd be
at home, we would do the redlight, green light thing.
But sometimes we would notice,especially with the younger kids
, that there was a time wherethey would make a choice and it
was like the light bulb insidetheir brain went off and it was
like oh, I have a will, myparents have a will, this is a
(27:01):
perfect time for me to exertmine against theirs.
Right, and it happened likethat for at least the last three
.
I don't remember so much theolder ones because we had older
kids when we implemented this.
Yeah, not super old, but youknow.
Liz (27:15):
Older, older yeah.
Ben (27:16):
But the younger, the last three in particular, when they
were younger we would see thislittle light bulb turn on and it
was like oh.
Liz (27:24):
Yep, little light bulb turn on and it was like oh, I can
now disobey my parent and I'mgoing to try Exerting the will.
They found their will, which isgreat.
We want them to find their will.
This is part of developing, butat the same time you're going
to have to learn, you also haveto learn how to submit that will
.
Ben (27:39):
Yes, we're going to have to learn about that, that's
crucial to becoming an adult andbeing a well-adjusted
individual in our society.
Liz (27:47):
Human being yeah.
Ben (27:48):
Is to learn how to submit.
I mean I hate to say that wordbecause it sounds so gross to
submit.
But you know what?
It's true, we all do it, we doit with one another, we do it to
authority structures andanyways, it was important to see
(28:09):
that that little light bulbmoment was a invitation into the
hardest part of this training.
So that's what I want to talkabout is one of our daughters.
We saw that light bulb momentgo off and she had a dirty
diaper.
I think you had just told herto go put it in the trash, or I
had just told her.
And we were both upstairs at themoment I think I was taking a
break from work, because Inormally would work downstairs
and so we said Bria, go, takethis diaper to the trash can.
(28:32):
And so she looked at us and itwas like no, no.
I'm not taking it, and so weknew right then and there.
Liz (28:42):
I'm like, oh, here it comes , here's the moment.
Here's the moment.
Ben (28:45):
Here's the moment.
This is where the rubber meetsthe road.
This is where the traininghappens, yep, and so I sat there
.
One important thing to note istypically there's one parent who
is better at like this type ofmoment where you know there's
going to be a battle of thewills, and so typically it's the
parent who's got the mostdiscipline.
Liz (29:05):
It's not me.
Ben (29:05):
That's what we're saying, and neither of us have high
discipline, but apparently Ihave more discipline than Liz.
Yeah, so I get to be thatparent, but you have to be cool,
calm and collective.
Liz (29:15):
Right.
Ben (29:16):
And you have to basically sit there like a broken record
and tell the child again andagain, and again what you want
them to do, and you don't movefrom that spot until they do it.
Liz (29:27):
Right.
Ben (29:27):
And it's like a battle of the wills, and this was the most
effective way for us to trainthe first time obedience.
Liz (29:34):
Yeah, and it's about 18, 20 months, yeah, so anyway, she
said no.
And then both of us are like,oh, this is that moment.
And so Ben faithful Ben satthere on the floor next to the
trash can and worked with her.
I told her what was going tohappen.
Ben (29:50):
I was like you are going to put this diaper in the trash.
I'm going to sit here until youdo.
Liz (29:55):
And just as cool as I'm talking to you right now.
Ben (29:57):
Oh, totally cool as a cucumber, like right now, you
know it was like we took all theemotion out of it and it was
just like this is what's goingto happen.
I'm going to wait here untilyou do.
And so she started gettingfrustrated and she threw her
diaper at me.
And if there's things that shedoes or the child does that are
something you need to correctand you actually need to do some
disciplinary action, thenthat's fine too.
(30:18):
You can do that and then comeback to the directive.
And so there are a few thingswhere you know we needed to
pause and come back to thedirective, but we never left
that space of just trying toimplement this, this directive.
And so I sat there and you knowshe would get upset and mad and
I just said Nope, we're goingto.
You know, we're going to.
I'm going to be here until youput this in the trash.
Liz (30:40):
You kept handing it back to her and she'd put it down.
Ben (30:42):
Yeah, she'd throw it away or do whatever she kept putting
it down.
Bring it back.
Here's your diaper.
I mean that poor diaper, poordiaper.
Liz (30:49):
It's amazing, it stayed together yeah.
Ben (30:51):
But we sat there for about 45 minutes, yeah, it was 45
minutes.
Liz (30:56):
You guys Like he's not exaggerating, it was very long.
I mean we were continuing onwith the family activities.
Yeah, and she.
But what happened?
Ben (31:05):
So at some point she got her hand close enough to the
trash, and whether she droppedit in by accident or did it on
her own, we're not quite sure.
But as soon as she obeyed, orat least had the outward
expression of obeying, wepraised her.
Liz (31:18):
Yeah, we gave her a treat.
Ben (31:20):
We were super excited.
Liz (31:21):
We told her how proud we were yeah, we were like jumping
for joy excited.
We told her how proud we were.
You're clapping yeah, we werelike jumping for joy.
It was so sweet.
And from then, on.
Ben (31:27):
We never had an issue with our daughter.
That is the craziest thing.
Liz (31:33):
And she is vibrant and expressive, extremely creative,
very creative.
This young lady is so wow, justsuch a treat.
But that was the moment and itwas before two.
You know it wasn't the terribletwos and actually she didn't
really have terrible twos at allLike not at all, you know, and
and even at three, you knowcause three was especially
(31:55):
three-year-old little girls canbe intense Three nature.
That's a very intense time.
She didn't even have that Likeshe just for whatever reason,
the diaper and you know, and itwas something different for
other.
You know two boys but yeah,it's true and you know, because
that happened what I was sayingbefore, like we would go out to
eat on Sundays and because ourkids we created a culture of
(32:18):
first time obedience and werethey perfect all the time?
No.
Were we perfect all the time?
Ben (32:22):
No no, but we always got back to that but we got back to
it.
Liz (32:24):
We would come back and be like okay, guys, let's talk
about it again.
You know we got to.
What do we do?
And we kept it lighthearted andfun.
So much so, you guys, that whenwe would take all of our kids
in as we're a growing family tothis particular restaurant, we
had servers begging to take ourtable.
And you know, it was not justbecause we were regulars, but
because our kids were wellbehaved and they would come and
(32:46):
ask us what do you do?
And they would tell storiesabout other tables.
Or we'd be there and there'd beother tables, kids throwing
food on the floor, throwingthemselves on the floor like
scream.
I mean, you guys know what I'mtalking about.
I'm not trying to paint, youknow, a picture that you're not
aware of.
And really, like, our kids justdidn't do that because we had
worked with them so much.
(33:06):
They just knew how to behave.
And also, when we said, don'tact like that, they knew what to
do.
Ben (33:11):
Well, we even had other families that would come up or
other couples.
It was mostly other couplesthat would come up and be like I
just want to let you know yourkids are so well behaved, or
your kids are the most wellbehaved we've seen in the
restaurant.
And it was kind of shocking tous because they're like we
didn't really think they werethat great today.
But we had such a baseline forobedience that if there was
(33:34):
anything that was out of whack,if they were like doing cutting
up like kids, do I mean they'regoing to mess up, they're going
to be kids, they're going to rubup against your will and it's
just going to happen.
But we would be very quick tobe like all right, hey, stop
that.
We want to make sure that we'reyou know, we're acting
correctly in a restaurant andthey would obey.
It was like it was like magic.
It was like you would just tellthem and they would do it.
(33:55):
You didn't have to raise yourvoice, you didn't have to
threaten anything, right?
Liz (34:00):
And we've got some more stories.
But even last night the kidswent to a game game uh, board
game night with a bunch of otherfamilies.
They had a blast, and we showup and and uh, towards the end
of the night we're like, heyguys, it's time to go and I
witnessed another family wherethe the mom and dad were like,
hey, we need to go, and therewas like, not the leaving, not
(34:22):
right you know, and you know andI didn't even think about this
until today that we're doingthis, but because we instilled
it.
You know, before, when we saidlast night, hey, it's time to go
Like, our kids were like allright, they put everything down,
happy hearts.
It still pays dividends.
Decades later, it's payingdividends.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Ben (34:41):
And maybe that's a good place to pause for here, but
let's just read a few verses.
And maybe that's a good placeto pause for here, but let's
just read a few verses.
And specifically in Colossians3.20, we have children obey your
parents and everything for thispleases the Lord.
In Ephesians 6.1, children obeyyour parents and the Lord for
this is right.
And then Proverbs 6.20, my son,obey your father's commands and
do not neglect your mother'sinstruction.
(35:03):
Guys, obedience is biblical.
There's no other way to cut it.
It can feel outdated, it canfeel antiquated, but when we
operate in rebellion and that'sthe norm instead of obedience,
that's actually satanic.
I hate to be so black and whiteabout it, but obedience is the
foundation that we're trying toset with our kids.
We don't want robots.
(35:24):
We don't want them to just obeyevery single thing that we're
trying to set with our kids.
We don't want robots.
We don't want them to just obeyevery single thing that we're
doing, especially as they'reteenagers.
But what we do is we set abaseline, we set a foundation,
and as they grow and mature andour relationship dynamics
changes, then that relationshipblossoms the right way, not the
wrong way, not in rebellion.
And so we want to talk to youmore about it and, uh, we're
(35:46):
going to take a pause here andagain, it was very messy doing
doing this kind of uh trainingand God blessed it and you know
it just goes right along withour theme.
You know we we are blessed inour mess and, uh, we're happy to
pick it up again and uh talkmore about it next time.
Liz (36:04):
Well, and so we just want to say thank you for being a
part of our one blessed messtoday.
Don't forget to like, share,comment, subscribe, pass this on
to somebody that you thinkwould enjoy or it would bless
them.
An encouragement, becauseeverybody needs some
encouragement.
I know I needed encouragementalong the way.
Also to follow us on Instagram.
Our handle is our one numericone, just like the sign blessed
(36:29):
mess.
And until next time, justembrace your beautiful mess,
because what we always say is ifour mess can be blessed then so
can yours, so can yours.
Have a great night.
Okay, welcome to our One Blessed Mess with Ben and Liz,
and we are so excited thatyou're here today because we are
telling our story of raisingsix kids in eight years while
having an entrepreneurial home,homeschooling and also currently
raising four teenagers Fourright Soon to be how many then
(00:29):
Soon to be five, soon to be five.
Ben (00:31):
Yes, it's still crazy to think about that.
Liz (00:34):
It is because it's so loud in our house.
Ben (00:37):
It is.
Liz (00:37):
We thought it was really loud when the kids were little,
which it was loud when they werelittle, but now that they're
older it's like booming menvoices.
Ben (00:45):
Man voices screaming, yes.
Female voices screeching voices, women voices yeah, it's like
not little kid cute voicesanymore.
It's like no oh my gosh, thatlike splits my ear.
Liz (00:56):
Yeah, it gets oh yeah, and it gets pretty loud and then
like the logic as they'reforming, their logic is quite
hilarious and also, too, is justlike big feet and flappy arms
and I feel like laughing, butit's true.
Well, they're just like they'renot because they're growing so
fast, it's like their arm likego go gadget arms.
Like it's too big for theirbodies too big for their bodies
(01:18):
and for the riches, but no,seriously, like it's.
It's very interesting becausethey're still like puppies in a
way.
You know they think they're allbig and bad, but really they're
super tender.
And somebody gave me some greatadvice about teenagers this mom
who had 10 kids and this isback when the kids were really
(01:38):
little and I was so nervous Ijust kept thinking what is it
going to be like?
It's going to be, you know, isit going to be terrible?
Ben (02:06):
no-transcript they might look done, but on the inside not
so much.
Liz (02:13):
They're not so much.
Ben (02:14):
Got to bake a little longer .
Liz (02:15):
Yeah, they got to bake a little.
Yes, they got to bake a littlelonger.
And then also too, you know,they are trying to formulate
their ideas and all that kind ofstuff and it's really a fun
stage.
I mean, somebody has asked merecently I forget where I was I
think it was a grocery store,because I'm at the grocery store
and they said you know what isit like with teenagers?
And I said it's awesome.
I've loved every stage of ourchildren growing up.
(02:38):
There has not been a stage thatI haven't enjoyed.
I mean, yeah, I didn't enjoysleepless nights and the puking
and some of those kind of things, but I've enjoyed them
developing and growing in everyage and every stage, and there's
not one that I've not enjoyed.
You know, and I think it's allabout perspective, but this is
not what we're talking abouttoday.
This is such a rabbit trail.
Ben (02:59):
We're known for the rabbit trails.
Liz (03:01):
Yeah, we're known for the rabbit trails, but what we have
to talk about today is prettyawesome.
I mean, it's a good topic.
Ben (03:07):
Well, it's slightly controversial.
I guess you could say yeah, weare going to be talking about
obedience, okay, so that's ourbig topic today.
Yep, we might do two episodeswith this.
I'm not sure, it just dependson how we go with this first one
, but there's a lot of contenthere and there's a lot of nuance
too, so we want to take ourtime with this.
We want to try to explain thisconcept of first-time obedience.
(03:31):
That's specifically what wewant to talk about.
Liz (03:33):
F-T-O.
Ben (03:35):
F-T-O first-time obedience.
Liz (03:36):
F-T-O.
Ben (03:37):
You might not have heard of that before.
You might be thinking what isfirst-time obedience?
Liz (03:40):
Well, I'm glad you may be thinking that, because we are
going to try to answer thatFirst time obedience is Wait
before you jump into that,before you jump into the
definition of it, I just want tosay that what we're about to
share is something that we wishwe had learned early on, when we
were raising our kids.
We did not know about thisuntil probably, I mean, we had
(04:04):
four or five kids, yeah, andthere was like a whole group of
them, yeah, and we aredefinitely outnumbered, way
outnumbered.
Ben (04:12):
But even when there was a group of them, we're still
talking about what like six andunder.
Liz (04:15):
Yeah, age-wise, yeah, age-wise, probably four or five
and busy, busy, busy lives withraising and all the things that
that involves and we were tryingto figure it out.
He had his experiences and howhe was raised.
I had my experiences and how Iwas raised.
Ben (04:33):
We were in some parent.
Liz (04:34):
Yeah, family of origin.
We were in some parenting books.
We did a parenting class at ourchurch.
We're still trying to figure itout and then we landed on this
and I wish that I had knownabout this earlier because it
would have made things easier.
But I just want to say to ouraudience like, don't feel
pressure.
You know, take this before theLord, pray about it, do some
more research, talk it over withyour spouse.
(04:57):
If you're a single parent, youknow, find someone that you can
discuss this with, and maybeanother single mom and kind of.
You know, talk it through.
But we're just wanting to passon some gold nuggets.
We're wanting to pass on somepearls that we discovered in the
midst of all the muck and themire that has changed our family
.
Ben (05:16):
I mean literally changed our family Do you want me to
tell them what it is?
Liz (05:19):
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
Ben (05:22):
So the definition of first time obedience, as we understand
it at least now there could bemultiple is basically to train
your child to obey you the firsttime an instruction is given.
And you might think, oh, thatsounds kind of prosaic, or you
know outdated, or you know tooauthoritarian, or insert
whatever you think about it andthat might be right, like yeah,
(05:43):
it might be a little oldfashioned, but here's what it
affords us.
Let's go into the pros and consand we'll let you decide, like
is this right for you and yourfamily or not?
We found that it was.
It completely transformed ourfamily and helped us live a lot
less stressful life.
Liz (05:59):
Much more peace.
Much more peace.
Like way like stress level Jumpinto the pros.
Yeah, the stress level totallycame down.
So, yeah, peace, much morepeace.
Like way like stress level Jumpinto the pros.
Ben (06:06):
Yeah, the stress level totally came down.
So yeah, peace.
Number one for us wasestablishing a culture of peace
and safety through obedience.
That sounds crazy, but if yougive it a little time you might
understand how that would workright.
Think about our situation.
We had roughly four children.
I think it was four children,it might've been three.
I mean, you're pregnant withthe fourth.
Liz (06:24):
Who knows?
Ben (06:25):
I don't remember exactly when we established this.
I was always pregnant, but itwas right around that time,
right and so having childrenthat are five and younger, and
then all try to be on the samepage and all try to obey one of
us parents because, let's faceit, you were home with the kids
a lot.
Obey one of us parents because,let's face it, like you were
home with the kids a lot, andthen, when you weren't there, I
(06:46):
was there with the kids, and sowe were trying to like not feel
overwhelmed and outnumbered.
Liz (06:52):
Right.
Ben (06:53):
With all these children running around and we're the
ones responsible for them andthey don't know safety.
Liz (07:00):
They don't know these things that adults know Well and
also, like you, don't want tohave to keep repeating yourself.
I think, yeah, you can kind ofgo crazy and then, before you
know it, you're like you'rehitting octaves that you don't
want to hit.
And I mean, I know you peopleout there watching this or
listening to this definitelyknow what we're talking about,
and so it's like we've got tochange this, because I don't
(07:21):
like who I am.
I don't like who I'm becoming.
What can?
Ben (07:24):
we do.
Liz (07:24):
Nobody's listening to me, I didn't even want to listen to
me.
You know, and and and,truthfully, like I wanted to be
able to go to a store, and we'vetold you before, in a previous
episode, that we have a son thatwas diagnosed with autism, and
so you know his processing.
You know my eye has to be onhim because he was a runner.
He would run.
And as soon as we got out of thecar I'd have to hold on to him.
(07:45):
I mean, it was just.
It was hard, hard season and webegan to actually start praying
and asking the.
Lord to help us.
Like how can we parent our kids?
And this fell into our lap.
So the pros are.
It gives you peace and safety.
It gives it Because there's aclear expectation.
Ben (08:06):
So that's another pro is a clear expectation.
You're training your childrento respond and be responsive, um
, and then there's alsoconsistency, right?
So like if I'm telling someoneto do something and expecting
that it to be done immediately,that's different than like when
you're talking to a kid and yougive them an instruction, they
don't do it.
You know, I'm counting to theman instruction they don't do it.
Liz (08:25):
I'm counting the three, then no, how about 10?
They still don't do it.
How about the 10?
Ben (08:27):
There's not this consistency where I say it it
should be done.
I'm not going to play a gamewhere I'm going to try to
incentivize you to obey me.
It should be obeyed the firsttime I do it.
And again, we're talking aboutsmall kids here.
Liz (08:41):
Yeah, it's a little bit different.
We want to set the expectation,yeah, yeah.
Ben (08:44):
Yeah, this doesn't necessarily happen now that the
kids are 15.
There's definitely moredialogue and there's more give
and take, and sometimes itdoesn't make sense for them to
obey me the first time because Idon't have all the details
right.
Right so they come back to meand say, dad, listen, I know you
said this, but this is reallywhat's happening.
Oh okay, yeah, totally, youknow I'm sorry, and it's
relationship.
Liz (09:04):
We'll get into teen years, and all that too at some point
in time.
Ben (09:07):
But but, really you know when it's a foundational and
when it's with young kids, theexpectation is that they obey
immediately, because you're ableto see things, you're able to
be aware of things, that they'rethere, you know they're small
enough to there.
They don't have that, thathistory or to understand, or
just the life experience.
So three things we've talkedabout so far establishing a
(09:31):
culture of peace and safety,clear expectations, consistency
when directives are given, andthen also this one's going to
sound like the bad word, butlearning about authority Ooh Ooh
authority, ooh Ooh authority.
Mufasa, shaking my boots.
Mufasa Say it again Mufasa OohAuthority.
(09:52):
Okay, that word gets misusedand we understand it right, we
do, and it's been abused.
There's a lot of bad authorityfigures out there and it's
unfortunate that we have thatUnfortunate.
However, if you try to run afamily without any kind of
authority, it's a madhouse guys.
Liz (10:11):
It is a complete madhouse and you have a very stressed out
parent, or parents, verystressed out Like we.
We just know.
Maybe you can do that with one.
Ben (10:23):
You definitely can't do it with the six, and even and guys
listen, sometimes we don't wantto jump ahead to too much, but
in our story we we have a storyabout a kid we think of as a
family of just one, or maybethere was two, one on the way,
but this kid was out of controland didn't understand authority.
Anyways, we'll leave that,we'll get to it.
Liz (10:45):
Yeah, we'll get to that.
So some cons.
Ben (10:46):
Let's throw in some cons.
If it's done incorrectly thisconcept of first time obedience,
if it's overblown or outdone,or if you only relate to your
kid in first time obedience andthey're 15 or even 18.
Yeah, something's going on,Something's wrong here.
Liz (11:04):
Well, you haven't, you haven't gotten past like.
Ben (11:07):
You haven't transitioned.
Liz (11:08):
You haven't transitioned Like it's different when they're
yeah, we'll get into that.
Ben (11:11):
So one con can be that it is perceived as like
militaristic Right Like you.
It's something you might see inan army, a chain of command
where, where there's a clearauthority and a clear structure
and so families obviously can'tbe run like a military.
We understand that we're notadvocating for that, and so it
can be perceived as militaristicand so you've got to work
(11:31):
around that.
So what's the number two,another con?
Yeah, what do you think?
Liz (11:35):
Oh, basically you're creating robots.
Ben (11:37):
Yeah, if you never progress beyond the first time obedience
, the first time directive,listening and responding and all
that, and that's all your kidknows, right.
Liz (11:47):
Yep.
Ben (11:48):
And that's only how they relate to you is through
obedience.
Then you're essentiallycreating a little robot.
Liz (11:54):
A robot and we are raising not human robots, we're raising
human beings, so this is just tohelp them develop, so they're
safe and they can actually getto develop.
I mean, there's so many stories, yeah, and then go ahead.
Ben (12:10):
Third, it can also be repressive, right?
So if you only relate tochildren in this first time
obedience concept, the kid mightnot be able to express their
true feelings or get to thebottom of things.
And then fourth, real quick, isthat it's too simplistic.
I think it's.
The idea behind all these consis that if you just camp out on
this first time obediencepremise and you never go beyond
(12:32):
that, then you're not trulydeveloping the child.
Liz (12:35):
So it looks like it's too simplistic.
Ben (12:37):
Yeah, it can look like it's too simplistic.
So what we propose is thisconcept of first time obedience
be the foundational layer thatyour kid understands who you are
as the authority in the family.
They understand that theirwillpower doesn't supersede
yours.
Right, and that's healthy,because we feel that's a great
(12:58):
way to learn about selfishnessand it's also a great way to
know that we're not the centerof the universe.
Too much I think this is justmy opinion too much of how we
parent today is coddling ourkids and we want them to feel
loved.
We want them to feel nurtured.
I'm not saying that feelnurtured Absolutely.
(13:19):
I'm not saying that that'swrong.
Liz (13:21):
Absolutely.
Ben (13:21):
But we also want them to understand that they aren't the
driving force in the universe,that there are others besides
them, and also that as they growup and as they realize, like
hey, in this dynamic of thefamily the parents are the
primary lawgiver, if you willRight, right.
(13:44):
That's the authority structureand that's important to
understand, because in societyyou want healthy individuals who
obey laws and who submit toauthority, and it's even
biblical to submit to authority.
You know there's verses in theepistles that talk about
submitting to the authorities.
It's a God-given authority andthat it's our right or sorry,
(14:05):
our responsibility to pray andto submit to those authorities.
And so we want to make surethat we are raising healthy
children, obviously, childrenwho are creative and who are
self-starters and are thinkers.
Obviously children who arecreative and who are
self-starters and are thinkers,and we don't want to obviously
just make them obedient.
No we want to start withobedience.
(14:25):
There has to be a foundationbefore we can move on and
realize what some of these otherdevelopment issues are.
Liz (14:33):
Right, and you know, I'm just thinking back to our
experience with raising allthese little ones and you ones,
and just having that foundationit makes the kids feel safe,
they know what's expected ofthem and they know how to act in
situations and they learn thatwhen I say something, I mean it.
(14:54):
When I say stop, there's areason why I said stop.
They don't get to turn aroundand debate as they're running
into traffic, right, I say stop,they have to stop, yeah, and
there are some things that I did, like when we were growing up.
I mean, I think you kind oflaid it out like what a first
time obedience is, you know, andwe want to say we're not
psychologists, we're notpsychiatrists, like you know.
(15:15):
We're just a mom and a dad thathappened to have a very large
family, not as big as some ofour friends have.
Some of our friends have manymore kids, you know.
But we, you know, figured thispiece out and we want to pass it
on if it serves you, right, andso I'm thinking of some ways
that I started out with.
You know, when we got thisconcept, we learned about first
(15:35):
time obedience, which basicallyis is when we say it the first
time you do it.
Ben (15:39):
Right, so so how do you?
So let's talk aboutimplementing that.
Liz (15:43):
Well, there's a song.
What's the song?
I don't know it's like thisslow oh BD and says no obedience
, okay, so if you're slow toobey, is there a dance too?
I mean, I made that up likeright here while I was sitting
with you Slow obedience is noobedience.
Ben (16:01):
Maybe we shouldn't dance.
Liz (16:02):
Okay, maybe not Okay.
So, especially for our friendsthat are not watching the
podcast, maybe listening.
Ben (16:08):
Yeah, what were they doing?
Liz (16:09):
Just delete that from your brain, All right.
So that's true, though, Becauseif you're slow to obey and I
see parents have friends andwhat's at stake- right, yeah.
Ben (16:23):
I think we need to set the stage.
So when you're small and you'reslow to obey, so let's say like
a toddler, maybe even three andfour, yep, you could be running
out.
In the street Right Like Zeke.
You could be running out in thestreet right or about to touch
something like a stove, or aboutto go down some some place that
you're not supposed to or youknow.
(16:45):
Danger, I think is the contextthat I'm trying to set here is
like when there's that slowobedience, then it could
actually be harmful if the kiddoesn't respond quickly.
Liz (16:55):
Right?
Well, there's an example.
So we have a friend who's inthe medical field and we just
went and saw him and he wastelling us you know, we were
telling him we're doing thispodcast, our One Blessed Mess,
and he goes I know what oneepisode is that you should speak
about and I said, oh, really,what he says.
How about first time obedience?
I thought, oh, it's socontroversial, really.
(17:15):
And he said, no, I'm going totell you why.
Because he was just on holidaywith his family and with some of
his brother and his wife, sobrother and sister-in-law, and
they had a great time.
They're finishing up and shewent to give him a hug and when
(17:39):
they hugged she had a wine glassin her hand and it dropped and
it broke and glass wenteverywhere, all over the kitchen
and the little boy who ourfriend told us he's like hey, he
doesn't really listen.
And obey, um, you know they,they they're literally screaming
at the top of their lungs toget this kid to do anything.
They're counting all this kindof stuff.
And I thought, oh, I know I'vewitnessed that.
(17:59):
And as this child was runningin, she said stop and he just
kept coming.
She said stop and he just keptcoming.
He's barefoot, he's about towalk into the glass.
He's like six, seven years old.
And finally, our friend saidthat she had this mom had to hit
decibels that were so high.
(18:19):
She's like stop.
I said stop, you're going tostep in class.
And it just unnerved the wholefamily.
Then the kid listened.
Now there has to be somewherealong the way there has to be
where you don't have to get tothat.
And I get it.
I was there.
You know I'm not saying, youknow it's been all perfect, but
(18:43):
I understand that because youknow I want, when I say, stop my
kids, stop Cause they know I, I, for some reason they trust me
that I know what I'm talkingabout you know and listen
because of training.
Ben (18:56):
Yeah, it's cause of training.
So why don't you talk aboutlike um?
Liz (19:00):
how we did it.
Yeah, like some of the waysthat I did it.
Ben (19:02):
Yeah, I remember you mentioning like the red light,
green light, kind of thing,right.
So, yeah, no, no, no, that'sgood.
Liz (19:08):
So, you know, Ben was working when the kids were
little, he was gone and so I wasat home for many, many hours
with these kids and we lived ina very cold state, that actually
with snow, and so I'd be snowedin sometimes for days.
So you know, you kind of needsome help and we were praying
about it.
What should we do?
I didn't like you know all theyelling and the screaming to get
(19:31):
kids to pay attention,especially with multiple kids.
And finally we found this and Istarted thinking about ways
that I can implement it.
And so our son that we've toldyou about, who has the diagnosis
, he was a runner and you know,he because of his processing
(19:51):
being a little bit different andhow he perceives things,
obviously the way that I wasdoing with the other kids wasn't
the same way that I could do itfor him.
And so I'm thinking how canbecause he almost got hit a
couple of times in the parkinglot, I'm telling you I would
have, you know, four kids getthe baby out in its bucket seat,
get the toddler in the seat,you know, locked in.
(20:12):
I put one kid on, you know,holding on the car seat, I mean
the cart, and then I'd have himand I'd have to get him last and
hold his hand.
But sometimes, you know,there's other things going on.
He'd break and he'd just takeoff running Cars are backing in
and out.
I mean it was terrifying.
And this is before you guys,they had like grocery pickup and
now you can Instacart yeah,Instacart, and you can door dash
(20:41):
, you know, milk to your door.
I didn't have that luxury rightand I didn't have any family at
the time living in the areawhere we were living, so it was
very minimal help.
It was on me to go get the milkand the cheese and the things
that we would need.
Anyway, because sometimes yourun out of stuff life.
So I thought about playing redlight, green light.
Any of you ever play red light,green light in elementary
school?
I thought, okay, that would begreat, and so I would go on
(21:05):
walks with my kids and pushingthe stroller and we would play
red light, green light, and itwas fun for my kids, but what it
was doing was training them tolisten to my voice.
And so I say red light, andthey all stop Green light.
They all run Red light, stopGreen light, run.
It was also a great way to getout energy, but it was a fun way
and it was training.
That's really what it was.
It was training to learn mom'svoice.
And so then I would startsaying things like go, and they
(21:27):
would run and say stop, becauseit wasn't just red light, green
light, now it was I'm commandingyou to stop, and they knew my
voice.
Then the other way that Ireally enjoyed doing this one
this one was really fun is whenthey were all little.
We talked about being the armyand you know what do you do in
the army?
You're good soldiers and youlisten to the commander.
Okay, so this is.
(21:48):
It was kind of like Simon says,but it would be like all right,
everybody get ready.
You're going to pick up 10 toysand put them in the bin, you
know, because the rooms would bea wreck, or I'm like okay, now
you're going to stand here,you're going to jump up and down
, you know.
So it was kind of like um Simonsays, and then what it was is
they were listening to me andthey.
It was a fun play to learn andwe would have lots of
(22:11):
conversations.
You know where it'd be like.
Okay, guys, remember, todaywe're going to practice first
time obedience.
When mom says, do it, you do itthe first time.
Do you do it the second timeafter I ask you no, you do it
the first time, because slowobedience is no obedience.
So when mommy says, go get yourshoes on, you go get your shoes
on.
Ben (22:28):
Yep.
Liz (22:31):
I don't have.
I don't have the brain space.
I don't have the wherewithal tohave to keep coming back and
say why don't you have yourshoes on?
I've told you three times thatis energy, that is exhausting
and it's too much.
So putting this first timeobedience in place and there
could be a lot more other funways to work with your kids, to
(22:51):
train, but they're learning myvoice and learning consistency
in what I say.
I mean it.
Ben (22:57):
And we've seen times where it's not consistent and when you
notice a parent that has tokeep repeating themselves, and
typically it's not like a goodcrescendo, right, like it's a
repeating, and then it's alouder or more intense and then
it's like even more and thenit's like anger, and we don't
want to be parents like thatright.
(23:18):
We don't want to have to figureout ways to incentivize our kids
to obey, we want it to beautomatic and immediate, and if
we start with that point right,it just brings so much more
consistency and we don't have toworry about being stressed out
and our emotions being spent.
So that's the real benefit fromthis type of parenting style,
(23:38):
or this exercise and obedienceis that you get so much less
stress.
Liz (23:45):
Yeah.
And we were able to take ourchildren out to eat, even on our
own.
So like this was somethingreally cool.
Ben (23:51):
Right, this is super cool we would be able to take six
kids to a restaurant byourselves while they're young.
Liz (24:01):
Yeah, you guys we're talking like six kids, eight and
under, even after Ethan wasborn going out to dinner and the
kids are sitting there happily.
Now they're normal kids,they're spilling milk and
there's all kinds of thingshappening.
Ben (24:15):
But I mean we and we would do it by ourselves occasionally,
because either you were workingor I was working, and there
were times where we needed to beout of the house and we had to
take all of our kids.
Or I was out of town and youhad them all by yourself, yeah,
and so that happened a lot asthey were growing up and we were
able to manage six children byourselves and we would go in to
(24:40):
stores, we would go out to eat.
Everybody would obey.
If there was someone cutting up, we would just say hey, listen,
don't do that.
And they would obey.
Liz (24:48):
Or we would say remember first time obedience.
So I want you to put your chairdown and stop rocking it,
because I'm afraid you're goingto rock out of your chair.
I mean just simple littlethings, and we have more to
share I know we're.
Ben (25:05):
I'm wondering if we should wrap it up.
Oh yeah, because we might haveto do a part two.
Yeah, let's do one story andthen maybe okay we can break
there um, and do you want totalk?
Liz (25:12):
about.
I'm thinking of one.
So when the kids were little wewould go to um a and then after
church we would frequent thisrestaurant often because it was
like a brunch lunch kind ofplace a popular place that we
love, and mainly we went therebecause the food would come out
so fast and while you're waitingthey have free coffee.
So we would strap the kids in.
(25:35):
They'd be watching a movie andwe'd park right in front waiting
for our name to be called and Igo get a cup of coffee for him,
a cup of coffee for myself, andwe kind of have like a mini
date before we actually go inand have our lunch for Sunday
and we would come in.
I mean, you know we went therefor four or five, maybe even
longer, six years, I don't knowconsistently.
So so this the wait staffwatched us raise our kids,
(25:58):
watched me be pregnant, watchedme come in with more kids.
I mean it was like they were allpart of the story of our clan
growing right Our tribe and thekids.
We would train them at home sothat when we came out in public
it wasn't like a fiasco.
Ben (26:15):
So that's important, right yeah, is making sure that you
don't try to train when you'reactually out.
Yeah, you know like you want aconsistent place to do this type
of training and maybe we can gointo just a little bit of like
the actual training and maybe wecan pause after that.
So what she's talking about islike when we were out, we
(26:37):
developed this habit at home andso we would practice, we'd be
at home, we would do the redlight, green light thing.
But sometimes we would notice,especially with the younger kids
, that there was a time wherethey would make a choice and it
was like the light bulb insidetheir brain went off and it was
like oh, I have a will, myparents have a will, this is a
(27:01):
perfect time for me to exertmine against theirs.
Right, and it happened likethat for at least the last three
.
I don't remember so much theolder ones because we had older
kids when we implemented this.
Yeah, not super old, but youknow.
Liz (27:15):
Older, older yeah.
Ben (27:16):
But the younger, the last three in particular, when they
were younger we would see thislittle light bulb turn on and it
was like oh.
Liz (27:24):
Yep, little light bulb turn on and it was like oh, I can
now disobey my parent and I'mgoing to try Exerting the will.
They found their will, which isgreat.
We want them to find their will.
This is part of developing, butat the same time you're going
to have to learn, you also haveto learn how to submit that will
.
Ben (27:39):
Yes, we're going to have to learn about that, that's
crucial to becoming an adult andbeing a well-adjusted
individual in our society.
Liz (27:47):
Human being yeah.
Ben (27:48):
Is to learn how to submit.
I mean I hate to say that wordbecause it sounds so gross to
submit.
But you know what?
It's true, we all do it, we doit with one another, we do it to
authority structures andanyways, it was important to see
(28:09):
that that little light bulbmoment was a invitation into the
hardest part of this training.
So that's what I want to talkabout is one of our daughters.
We saw that light bulb momentgo off and she had a dirty
diaper.
I think you had just told herto go put it in the trash, or I
had just told her.
And we were both upstairs at themoment I think I was taking a
break from work, because Inormally would work downstairs
and so we said Bria, go, takethis diaper to the trash can.
(28:32):
And so she looked at us and itwas like no, no.
I'm not taking it, and so weknew right then and there.
Liz (28:42):
I'm like, oh, here it comes , here's the moment.
Here's the moment.
Ben (28:45):
Here's the moment.
This is where the rubber meetsthe road.
This is where the traininghappens, yep, and so I sat there
.
One important thing to note istypically there's one parent who
is better at like this type ofmoment where you know there's
going to be a battle of thewills, and so typically it's the
parent who's got the mostdiscipline.
Liz (29:05):
It's not me.
Ben (29:05):
That's what we're saying, and neither of us have high
discipline, but apparently Ihave more discipline than Liz.
Yeah, so I get to be thatparent, but you have to be cool,
calm and collective.
Liz (29:15):
Right.
Ben (29:16):
And you have to basically sit there like a broken record
and tell the child again andagain, and again what you want
them to do, and you don't movefrom that spot until they do it.
Liz (29:27):
Right.
Ben (29:27):
And it's like a battle of the wills, and this was the most
effective way for us to trainthe first time obedience.
Liz (29:34):
Yeah, and it's about 18, 20 months, yeah, so anyway, she
said no.
And then both of us are like,oh, this is that moment.
And so Ben faithful Ben satthere on the floor next to the
trash can and worked with her.
I told her what was going tohappen.
Ben (29:50):
I was like you are going to put this diaper in the trash.
I'm going to sit here until youdo.
Liz (29:55):
And just as cool as I'm talking to you right now.
Ben (29:57):
Oh, totally cool as a cucumber, like right now, you
know it was like we took all theemotion out of it and it was
just like this is what's goingto happen.
I'm going to wait here untilyou do.
And so she started gettingfrustrated and she threw her
diaper at me.
And if there's things that shedoes or the child does that are
something you need to correctand you actually need to do some
disciplinary action, thenthat's fine too.
(30:18):
You can do that and then comeback to the directive.
And so there are a few thingswhere you know we needed to
pause and come back to thedirective, but we never left
that space of just trying toimplement this, this directive.
And so I sat there and you knowshe would get upset and mad and
I just said Nope, we're goingto.
You know, we're going to.
I'm going to be here until youput this in the trash.
Liz (30:40):
You kept handing it back to her and she'd put it down.
Ben (30:42):
Yeah, she'd throw it away or do whatever she kept putting
it down.
Bring it back.
Here's your diaper.
I mean that poor diaper, poordiaper.
Liz (30:49):
It's amazing, it stayed together yeah.
Ben (30:51):
But we sat there for about 45 minutes, yeah, it was 45
minutes.
Liz (30:56):
You guys Like he's not exaggerating, it was very long.
I mean we were continuing onwith the family activities.
Yeah, and she.
But what happened?
Ben (31:05):
So at some point she got her hand close enough to the
trash, and whether she droppedit in by accident or did it on
her own, we're not quite sure.
But as soon as she obeyed, orat least had the outward
expression of obeying, wepraised her.
Liz (31:18):
Yeah, we gave her a treat.
Ben (31:20):
We were super excited.
Liz (31:21):
We told her how proud we were yeah, we were like jumping
for joy excited.
We told her how proud we were.
You're clapping yeah, we werelike jumping for joy.
It was so sweet.
And from then, on.
Ben (31:27):
We never had an issue with our daughter.
That is the craziest thing.
Liz (31:33):
And she is vibrant and expressive, extremely creative,
very creative.
This young lady is so wow, justsuch a treat.
But that was the moment and itwas before two.
You know it wasn't the terribletwos and actually she didn't
really have terrible twos at allLike not at all, you know, and
and even at three, you knowcause three was especially
(31:55):
three-year-old little girls canbe intense Three nature.
That's a very intense time.
She didn't even have that Likeshe just for whatever reason,
the diaper and you know, and itwas something different for
other.
You know two boys but yeah,it's true and you know, because
that happened what I was sayingbefore, like we would go out to
eat on Sundays and because ourkids we created a culture of
(32:18):
first time obedience and werethey perfect all the time?
No.
Were we perfect all the time?
Ben (32:22):
No no, but we always got back to that but we got back to
it.
Liz (32:24):
We would come back and be like okay, guys, let's talk
about it again.
You know we got to.
What do we do?
And we kept it lighthearted andfun.
So much so, you guys, that whenwe would take all of our kids
in as we're a growing family tothis particular restaurant, we
had servers begging to take ourtable.
And you know, it was not justbecause we were regulars, but
because our kids were wellbehaved and they would come and
(32:46):
ask us what do you do?
And they would tell storiesabout other tables.
Or we'd be there and there'd beother tables, kids throwing
food on the floor, throwingthemselves on the floor like
scream.
I mean, you guys know what I'mtalking about.
I'm not trying to paint, youknow, a picture that you're not
aware of.
And really, like, our kids justdidn't do that because we had
worked with them so much.
(33:06):
They just knew how to behave.
And also, when we said, don'tact like that, they knew what to
do.
Ben (33:11):
Well, we even had other families that would come up or
other couples.
It was mostly other couplesthat would come up and be like I
just want to let you know yourkids are so well behaved, or
your kids are the most wellbehaved we've seen in the
restaurant.
And it was kind of shocking tous because they're like we
didn't really think they werethat great today.
But we had such a baseline forobedience that if there was
(33:34):
anything that was out of whack,if they were like doing cutting
up like kids, do I mean they'regoing to mess up, they're going
to be kids, they're going to rubup against your will and it's
just going to happen.
But we would be very quick tobe like all right, hey, stop
that.
We want to make sure that we'reyou know, we're acting
correctly in a restaurant andthey would obey.
It was like it was like magic.
It was like you would just tellthem and they would do it.
(33:55):
You didn't have to raise yourvoice, you didn't have to
threaten anything, right?
Liz (34:00):
And we've got some more stories.
But even last night the kidswent to a game game uh, board
game night with a bunch of otherfamilies.
They had a blast, and we showup and and uh, towards the end
of the night we're like, heyguys, it's time to go and I
witnessed another family wherethe the mom and dad were like,
hey, we need to go, and therewas like, not the leaving, not
(34:22):
right you know, and you know andI didn't even think about this
until today that we're doingthis, but because we instilled
it.
You know, before, when we saidlast night, hey, it's time to go
Like, our kids were like allright, they put everything down,
happy hearts.
It still pays dividends.
Decades later, it's payingdividends.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Ben (34:41):
And maybe that's a good place to pause for here, but
let's just read a few verses.
And maybe that's a good placeto pause for here, but let's
just read a few verses.
And specifically in Colossians3.20, we have children obey your
parents and everything for thispleases the Lord.
In Ephesians 6.1, children obeyyour parents and the Lord for
this is right.
And then Proverbs 6.20, my son,obey your father's commands and
do not neglect your mother'sinstruction.
(35:03):
Guys, obedience is biblical.
There's no other way to cut it.
It can feel outdated, it canfeel antiquated, but when we
operate in rebellion and that'sthe norm instead of obedience,
that's actually satanic.
I hate to be so black and whiteabout it, but obedience is the
foundation that we're trying toset with our kids.
We don't want robots.
(35:24):
We don't want them to just obeyevery single thing that we're
trying to set with our kids.
We don't want robots.
We don't want them to just obeyevery single thing that we're
doing, especially as they'reteenagers.
But what we do is we set abaseline, we set a foundation,
and as they grow and mature andour relationship dynamics
changes, then that relationshipblossoms the right way, not the
wrong way, not in rebellion.
And so we want to talk to youmore about it and, uh, we're
(35:46):
going to take a pause here andagain, it was very messy doing
doing this kind of uh trainingand God blessed it and you know
it just goes right along withour theme.
You know we we are blessed inour mess and, uh, we're happy to
pick it up again and uh talkmore about it next time.
Liz (36:04):
Well, and so we just want to say thank you for being a
part of our one blessed messtoday.
Don't forget to like, share,comment, subscribe, pass this on
to somebody that you thinkwould enjoy or it would bless
them.
An encouragement, becauseeverybody needs some
encouragement.
I know I needed encouragementalong the way.
Also to follow us on Instagram.
Our handle is our one numericone, just like the sign blessed
(36:29):
mess.
And until next time, justembrace your beautiful mess,
because what we always say is ifour mess can be blessed then so
can yours, so can yours.
Have a great night.
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