January 18, 2025 • 32 mins
(Welcome to our new podcast! We are dropping 4 episodes initial but stay tuned for a weekly release every Friday.)
Can a single strategy like teaching first-time obedience make parenting smoother? On "One Blessed Mess," we navigate the whirlwind of raising six kids, managing businesses, homeschooling, and dealing with a house full of pets. We relive a delightful holiday mishap with a niece’s creative spin on a nativity decal, underscoring how lively and unpredictable family life can be. We focus on how instilling first-time obedience in our children has laid a strong foundation of respect and understanding of authority, making teenage transitions less tumultuous and freeing up energy for other parenting challenges.
Our anniversary trip to Southern Ireland offers a scenic backdrop to discuss universal parenting challenges, such as handling public tantrums, inspired by our encounter with the charming yet tantrum-prone four-year-old Ezra. As we explore themes of obedience, authority, and masculinity, insights from Brant Hanson's "The Men We Need" (paid link) emphasize the role of fathers as protectors. We aim to change societal perceptions about family life by welcoming single individuals to experience the joys and chaos of our home. Through personal stories, like crisis schooling during COVID, we illustrate how deliberate parenting strategies enhance family harmony and deepen relationships.
Your Listening to our 1 blessed mess, with ben and liz
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Liz (00:07):
All right, welcome to our One Blessed Mess.
This is Ben and Liz, and we areso excited to be here today
with you.
We're here about talking aboutour story with raising six kids
in eight years and managing ourentrepreneurial home with two
businesses while homeschooling,and also currently navigating
life with four teenagers foursoon to be five plus eight
(00:32):
chickens and two dogs, just tokeep life interesting.
Also, what is our acronym forour one blessed mess?
Ben (00:41):
O1BM.
Liz (00:42):
O1BM.
Ben (00:43):
And Liz likes to say R1 BM.
Liz (00:45):
R1 BM, so it kind of.
Ben (00:48):
That's a joke.
Liz (00:49):
Yeah, we talked about it earlier.
Ben (00:50):
It's in earlier episodes.
It's some potty humor andunfortunately I never grew out
of potty humor.
Liz (00:56):
So still funny to this day.
It's yes, sometimes I'm raisingseven kids, not six.
Ben (01:02):
Yeah, this is true, and you had to do some first time
obedience with me even.
Liz (01:06):
Yes, yes, yes, which is what we're talking about today.
It is what we're talking abouttoday.
Ben (01:10):
This is the second part of our first time obedience cover
or topic, I guess you would say,and we're going to dive right
back in, but you were telling meright before this that you had
a funny story Okay.
Liz (01:23):
So this story is really hilarious.
I just had this memory andthought I would share it with
you guys, because everybodyneeds a good laugh every now and
then, especially on a heavytopic like what we're talking
about right now.
So Christmas I got these decalsand had the nativity set up, so
like decals that you put on awindow, right.
Ben (01:43):
They're like the sticky ones.
Yeah, like on sliding glass.
Liz (01:45):
Yeah, like on our sliding glass door, and I that's
something that I do in my house.
Depending on what holiday we'recelebrating, I always put these
little decals up there and andit gives the kids something to
do while we're decorating.
It's kind of fun, so they comeoff and go back on.
Ben (01:57):
Well, anyway, I have the nat's visiting us and they
didn't just put the nativity up,they actually, like, started
writing on these little stickywith a sharpie, with a sharpie,
yeah, with a sharpie.
Liz (02:10):
Which?
And putting things you know,fun things, right like mary and
joseph, mary and joseph, littlelike noel and uh-huh yeah.
Ben (02:17):
But but there was something on the donkey.
Liz (02:20):
what was on the donkey list ?
I'm looking at the donkey andI'm like, oh my gosh, I saw it
too.
Does that say what I think itsays?
It looks like it spells out adollar, sign dollar sign, but
not dollar signs.
Ben (02:40):
Let the reader understand.
Liz (02:41):
Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, that is hilarious.
So what do I do?
Ben (02:45):
Naturally, I grab my phone and take a video of it.
Liz (02:47):
It was done in, like you know someone's handwriting that
was really rough and veryjuvenile, and so you're like how
did they connect those things?
Ben (02:55):
I?
Liz (02:55):
didn't know if it was one of my kids or the cousins or
something.
So it turns out it was my nieceand I asked her.
So innocent, so innocent, hey.
So they said you wrote on this.
Tell me what did you writethere?
She's like I wrote.
Ben (03:09):
UGG?
That does not look like UGG.
That does not look like UGG.
Liz (03:11):
And you guys, this is right before.
We had the church over.
Ben (03:14):
Like the church was on their way, the church was on
their way.
Liz (03:17):
We're doing home church, yeah, they were all coming over
that day, like right before theyarrived, I thought, oh, this is
funny, this is very funny.
So we just thought we'd tellyou that funny story because it
just happened, so all right,good times.
So the topic we're jumping intotoday.
Ben (03:32):
Yeah, so we're going to pick back up where we left off
on the first time obedience.
We just finished talking aboutthe example with our daughter in
the diaper and Pros and cons.
Yeah, pros and cons, and we'lljust do a real quick recap on
the concept, just so you know ifyou are starting out on this
episode, you can go back and andand watch the first one, but
(03:53):
you won't have to justcompletely come in blind.
So, first time obedience isthis concept of uh training kids
, especially young kids, uh, andeven specifically young kids,
how to obey the first time adirective is given and for
reasons that are quite obvioussafety, consistency, learning
and expecting to understandabout authority and even just
(04:16):
establishing safety and peacefor the parent and for the child
.
So that's kind of the pros.
We talked about some of thecons also, where, if you just
stop there right on this conceptof first-time obedience and
that is exclusively the way thatyou relate to your child, but
(04:45):
it helps to lay this foundationbecause it makes other things so
much easier, and so that wasone of the other things we were
talking about is like thedividends that this kind of pays
later on in life, especiallywith teenagers.
You know, if you have kids thatare used to obeying like that
opens up so many morepossibilities for you to be able
to spend your energy and otherthings besides getting them to
(05:08):
obey.
Liz (05:10):
Right.
Ben (05:10):
So we just talked about, you know, our daughter's diaper
and how we got real intense inthe training and you know she
finally dropped it.
Yeah, yeah.
And one time and then basicallythat set her default with how
she relates to both liz and Iand she's one of our most
obedient kids and we really haveobedient kids, I mean well,
(05:33):
what about?
Liz (05:34):
what about when a certain other daughter was um, so yeah,
so this was before we had, wehad established this training.
This is probably why we foundthis training.
Ben (05:47):
We might have come to our wits end through this experience
, and so we were looking at.
You know what we could dodifferently?
Liz (05:54):
Because we were a growing family and had another baby on
the way.
Ben (05:57):
Yeah, yeah and so when our oldest daughter hit about three.
Liz (06:04):
Three, three and a half.
Ben (06:06):
It was extremely challenging.
She is strong-willed.
We have a couple.
Liz (06:11):
Well, they're all strong-willed.
We have a couple strong.
Yeah, they're all strong.
Ben (06:14):
Some are stronger than others, but our oldest daughter
had such a strong willpower thatwe just didn't know what to do.
We were besides ourselves.
We tried various forms ofdisciplining and different
tactics and, you know, nothingseemed to work.
And we were like, literally atour end.
She would growl, she was mad.
We thought she was likemanifesting.
(06:35):
Well, no, kidding, yeah, wethought she was.
Liz (06:38):
I actually went to a lady in our church that I really
respect and met with her and Ijust said I'm wondering if my
daughter needs deliverance orsomething's going on Like I
didn't even know she's like nope, she said she's three and she
has a lot of estrogen, and thathelped me dive into a direction
(07:01):
to figure out what's physicallygoing on in her body.
And that is true when they'rethree and four years old,
especially in girls.
That flood of hormones is veryreal and it's there for about
five.
Then it starts to really startmellowing out and then it starts
coming back and rising in eightand nine.
But that's because they'rethey're preteens and tweens and
we know, we know.
(07:21):
So, anyway, with her um,introducing this was a little
bit different.
It wasn't just a one and a done.
Part of that was because it wasshe was a little older.
Now I always say, um, if, if,work on getting your kids you
know, work with your kidsbecoming obedient.
When you say what you say, youmean um, and they know it and
they follow through.
And being consistent, becauseif you don't nip it in the bud
(07:42):
like now, so to speak I don'tknow how else to say it but if
you don't get there now, thenthe next year is going to be
harder, then the next year isgoing to be harder 10 years from
now will be a nightmare.
Yeah, it will, Because you, youknow, you want to work with them
when they're younger.
So she was like three, fouryears old and it was a little it
was intense.
Ben (08:03):
We finally figured out something that worked, where we
basically, you know, put her inher room and tell her to come
out when she had a happy heartand for some reason that clicked
.
Liz (08:13):
It took a little while.
So, yeah, we were consistent.
So, as soon as she would, shewould start to get upset for
whatever.
It didn't even matter.
It could be that she was eatingwith the wrong color spoon, you
know, um, you know.
Or she didn't even matter, itcould be that she was eating
with the wrong color spoon, youknow, you know, or she didn't
get an extra French fry, like Imean, it was silly little things
like that, and her emotionswould just start going and she
hadn't learned.
It was a spiral, yeah.
(08:34):
And so as soon as we saw that,we would say hey, you, you know,
get a happy heart.
You need to have a happy heart.
We explained what a happy heartis.
If you can't have a happy heart, you need to have a happy heart
.
We explain what a happy heartis.
If you can't have a happy heart, then we need you to go to your
room and you're going to stayin your room until you have a
happy heart.
So we were kind of removing herfrom the situation and then we
did things creative, like if shehad a bad attitude, your
attitude is not good, you'regoing to go throw your bad.
Ben (08:59):
You know, we realize why our attitude is bad.
Liz (09:01):
We're going to let her go to the trash and throw her bad
attitude in there or flush itdown the toilet because we did
that as well and you know shewas better, but getting the
whole family to get on boardwith the first time obedience
(09:28):
thing, and it's not necessarilya one and done like.
Ben (09:31):
even with our other daughter, we still had to remind
her.
This is what we're doing, guys.
We're kind of slacking in thisBecause we're human, yeah, we're
human.
And people fail, we fail.
Liz (09:41):
Our kids fail.
Ben (09:45):
We go on trips, or there'd be a slew of sickness that would
come through the house, or I'dhave a baby or I'm newly
pregnant.
We have to know what wasdifferent about what the norm
was and why things weren'tworking.
And then, when it was, timeit's like.
it's kind of like, you know,when people get on diets and
they get off the diet train,then they get back on the diet
train, so something like thatyou know it's just that, coming
back to it, coming back to it,yeah, so you can't yeah, you
can't be too dogmatic about it,but we knew that, overall, this
(10:06):
is where we want our family togo is?
We wanted to make sure thatthey responded to us and they,
um, uh, would obey, you know,the first time that we we asked
them to do something.
So let's talk about what whatit doesn't look like, maybe.
Oh, what does?
It Do you remember our friendMr Ezra.
Liz (10:24):
Oh yes.
Ben (10:25):
He was a cute kid.
Liz (10:26):
So cute, I fell in love with him.
Ben (10:28):
We met this kid in Ireland and let me tell you he had this
crazy bubbly personality.
Yeah, he loved being able to bein the limelight and just go
right up and talk to strangers.
And so we met this kid at thispark and it was in Southern
Ireland and it was like a resort.
Liz (10:46):
We were celebrating our 20th anniversary.
Yeah, 20th anniversary.
Ben (10:49):
Celebrating and this kid comes up to us and we strike up
a relationship and you knowspecifically he was talking to
you.
Liz (10:57):
Well, I just, I just love little kids, you know, and I
love especially his age.
He was four, and so I just lovethe way they think and how
expressive they are.
And you know, if you want tohave a great conversation, sit
down with some four-year-oldsand you're going to laugh
because the way they view theworld is hilarious and it's so,
(11:19):
so inspiring, you know.
Ben (11:20):
So that was the positive of meeting Mr Ezra.
Liz (11:23):
But what was?
Ben (11:24):
what was the negative thing that we saw shortly after that?
Liz (11:27):
So we were at dinner and this is how we met him.
Uh, we were at dinner and theirtable, the reservation, was
right behind us, and so, um, youknow, he strikes up a
conversation with me actually a,little cutie, cutie pie and uh,
we start talking and um, andthen I can't remember exactly
what happened, but his mothermade a comment where and we're
(11:47):
just meeting these people wereover in Europe, right, and
they're American.
So you know, we're like, ohhappy to meet some more
Americans and interested in whatthey're doing there, plus with
their kids.
I thought that was brilliant.
But there were a lot of peoplefrom all over the world, a lot
of people celebrating 50 and 60years of marriage, which was
really cool.
But she makes the comment to methat they have another daughter
(12:09):
and she's so cute.
She's, I think, a little overone, and she said, oh, she's the
, because she was having ameltdown, she was tired, she
wanted to go to bed, she wantedto use the spoon, she didn't
want her mom to feed her.
You know all those littlethings that happen as they're
gaining their independence.
Ben (12:23):
We were trying to console her, yeah, I was like oh, she's
so cute, yeah, and I was likeyou're doing such a great job as
a mom and she goes well.
Liz (12:29):
She's the easy one, he's the hard one and I thought, gosh
, this kid's been pretty awesomewith me.
Ben (12:34):
We're like wow he's hard.
I'm like.
Liz (12:40):
Well, no, that night.
Ben (12:41):
Oh, was it that night?
Liz (12:43):
He started because he didn't want to leave.
That's right.
Ben (12:45):
There was two episodes, so two episodes with Mr Ezra.
The first time he didn't wantto leave, that's right.
I just remembered that.
And he just started pitching afit, and I don't mean like, like
a little fit it was likescreaming, throwing things, he
wouldn't like go to the chair.
His dad literally is liketrying to yank him off the chair
.
Liz (13:04):
It was wild, it was crazy.
Ben (13:05):
It was like you were dealing with a wild animal.
Liz (13:07):
Yeah, it was wild, and we were just.
Ben (13:09):
we were mostly shocked by how intense they let him get and
then, like that, it was almostnormal.
Liz (13:17):
Well, and, and the thing is , I want to say, like we have,
like our understanding and ourfamily how we do things.
We weren't the only ones.
There were people from all overthe world Like turning looking,
I mean making comments.
I mean it was pretty intense.
Okay, so that's the first thingNext morning we go and we have
breakfast because we're at aresort.
Ben (13:39):
We're at a resort.
At the resort, we go in for thecontinental breakfast.
That's there and it's good.
Oh no, this is like.
The english don't even callthat a continental breakfast.
What are you doing?
It was it?
Liz (13:47):
was a.
It was an irish breakfast.
It was the lay of the land likeit was great.
Ben (13:54):
Oh my gosh, take me back.
Can we go back?
I don't know.
I don't know if we can affordit.
Please take me it was like aonce in 20 years kind of trip.
But, anyways, we show up at therestaurant and there we hear
Ezra as we're walking in.
Liz (14:07):
Yeah, and before that started he sees me, okay.
So he sees me and you knowwe've made a little connection.
I'm like hi, how'd you sleep?
You know, trying to keep thingsbecause the night before was
pretty intense, like it wasintense like manager coming,
servers coming, and so he's likeI did good and we have been
(14:27):
already seated and I'm justpicking up a few more things at
this delicious breakfast bar andI leave him.
Well, he starts talking to hismom and then we start hearing
him screaming and he's like inan adjacent room and we're in
the most beautiful location withall these windows overlooking
the cliffs, with, you know, Imean other people who were
(14:48):
traveling and we had, by thistime, had met other couples and
you know, 60 years.
Somebody else was there for 30years, 50 years, there was
somebody else celebrating agraduation, there was a lot that
was going on and I mean thewhole area that we were sitting
in, this big breakfast area,started getting tense and he's
screaming.
Ben (15:08):
And you guys, it wasn't 10 minutes, it wasn't 20 minutes,
it wasn't 30 minutes, it had tohave been at least 40 minutes
and it could have even beenlonger, but it was so intense
and it was so bad that the waitstaff was actually coming up
asking if they could do anythingand that's when you know like
it's gotten out of control waslike it was affecting the entire
flow of the restaurant, andwhat was sad about it is like
(15:32):
here's this couple whoundoubtedly spent, you know,
lots of money to come over andhave this enjoyable time and to
enjoy it with the kids, and itwas ruining it not only for them
, but pretty much everybody inthe restaurant.
Yeah, yeah, you know all,because this child wouldn't obey
.
Liz (15:48):
And what he wanted to do.
I found out later because weran into them again.
And you know and I still prayfor this kid because I know he
has a great little call on hislife Like God has a big plan for
him.
He's so adorable.
But he was upset because hewanted to come have breakfast
with you and I.
(16:09):
That's why he was screaming andthe mom told me that and she
said I told him he couldn'tbecause you guys had a
two-seater, which was true.
I think I would have justinvited him to come to the table
.
Ben (16:17):
I mean, yeah, honestly, I, you guys had a two-seater, which
was true.
I think I would have justinvited him to come to the table
.
I mean yeah, honestly, Iprobably should have just said
Worked on first time obedience,later Just given into the kid.
Liz (16:26):
Well, and in the conversation with her you know,
she was telling me that this isa pattern.
This is something that he doesall the time.
Ben (16:33):
Yeah, and, but why?
Why do you think that happens?
Liz (16:37):
Well, I try to drop little hints.
Ben (16:40):
We don't know why.
I mean, we do know why.
Liz (16:42):
Yeah, we know why we know why?
Ben (16:43):
It's because it's tolerated .
Liz (16:45):
Yeah, it's tolerated, it was tolerated.
Ben (16:46):
It was probably tolerated at home.
Liz (16:47):
Yeah, it is.
Ben (16:48):
And then this is what you get when you're out and about
and when you're with strangers.
Liz (17:04):
Right, and then there was another third episode that
happened.
They all went to sing karaokeand they told him to, he got up
there, but then they told him hehad to get off stage and he
didn't want to and it ended upbeing a fiasco.
When she told me about thatCause, we saw him again later
that night after this thing, andso this is like a pattern and
so in like, if you know me, I'mtrying to like gently bring up
(17:25):
maybe a suggestion, because wehave so many kids, you know,
with all different personalitytypes, extremely strong-willed,
still strong-willed, you knowall these kinds of things, and
I'm like there is a better way,like there is a better way, and
I did share a little bit withher.
I think it kind of set her on apath to begin to think and
maybe go down this, because thiskid there was like no
(17:49):
boundaries, it was like whateverhe felt.
Ben (17:52):
His will was at odds with his parents and he was winning.
That was the honest truth wasthat they were letting him
dictate how the family was run,and that's kind of.
That's kind of what we'retrying to say is what we want to
avoid Like with this, with thistactic you know, this first
time obedience tactic it'sreally about making sure that
there's a correct authoritystructure and you don't have to
(18:14):
abuse it.
Liz (18:15):
No, please do not.
Ben (18:17):
And that's where it gets a bad rap right.
Is because you've got theseparents that think only in terms
of first time obedience andthey don't ever move beyond that
.
But we have to say like thishas saved us so much headache,
so much drama so much stress andso much time.
Like can you imagine being ableto tell your kids hey, we got
(18:39):
to get ready to go.
Everything needs to be cleanedup, picked up, and when you're
going to walk out the door in 10minutes and them actually doing
it?
Liz (18:46):
Ours do that, ours do that, ours really do that.
Ben (18:47):
That's the normal behavior yeah.
Liz (18:49):
And they get their coats on , they get their shoes on, they
get their backpacks.
Ben (18:53):
And they're not robots, they're super creative
individuals that if you startgoing and cutting up with them,
they will cut up and they willget into the most fun trouble
you've ever had in your life.
And I love that.
I love that about my kids theylove to cut up and they love to
have a good time.
But when we get serious andwhen we know and we say like,
hey, this is what we're doing,guys they do it yeah.
(19:13):
It started.
It's such a blessing.
Liz (19:15):
Yeah, we've trained on it and you should tell the elephant
story.
Ben (19:19):
Yeah, there's, there's a good story about the elephant.
I love telling the story becauseI think it encapsulates kind of
this concept, but in the animalkingdom maybe a little bit.
And it's a story about thispreserve in South Africa, the
Kruger National Park, and youcan look this up online.
I'm sure you can Google it andfind the more details, because
I'm just going to give you justthe basics.
(19:41):
But there was a preserve andthings were going so well.
They were having an abundanceof elephant population, so
they're having too manyelephants.
They needed to relocate them,and the only way they could
relocate them effectively was touse these helicopters, and so
the helicopters had a harness.
They would take elephants upone by one and move them to this
(20:02):
other preserve, and they weredoing a great job.
But they couldn't get the oldermale bulls because they weighed
so much, and so the harness andthe helicopters weren't able to
effectively lift them, so theyhad to leave them behind.
So all these elephants gotmoved over to the other preserve
and everything was great, thisparticular one.
At the new one, though, theywere noticing something kind of
(20:25):
crazy.
They were noticing that a bunchof the rhinos were being
slaughtered and it wasn'tpoachers, because the tusks were
still left on the animal.
They were just being trampledand killed and gored.
Liz (20:39):
Yeah.
Ben (20:43):
And it was almost like someone was doing it for fun.
There seemed to be no rhyme orreason why these rhinos were
being killed.
And then the staff there atthis new preserve they noticed
that there were other animalsbeing killed, and so they were
trying to figure out what isgoing on.
Well, they set up some wildlifecameras and stuff and they were
able to witness young bullsgoing and doing this, going and
(21:05):
killing, and they were trying tofigure out what can we do to
stop this.
So someone had a great idea,which was to go back and
reintroduce some of the olderbulls to the new preserve.
Liz (21:17):
Yep.
Ben (21:17):
Guess what happened.
As soon as they put those olderbulls, the ones that had the
ability to enforce their will onthe younger bulls, it all
cleared up and there was a clearauthority structure and those
young bull elephants changedtheir behavior.
Liz (21:37):
They changed their ways.
Ben (21:38):
Because there was an authority structure and there
was, honestly, a will that wasgreater than theirs that was
being enforced, and I feel likethat's a that's a great kind of
like animal kingdom snapshot, asinto what we're talking about
here is we, we.
Sometimes we just need anotherwill exerted on ours in order
for us to shape up.
That happens with us as adultsin the form of, like God, just
(22:03):
kind of saying, no, you can'treally do that, you need to do
this.
And sometimes we run headlongthe other direction, like Jonah.
But God ends up having his way,you know, and through
circumstances, and finallythrough our obedience and our
submission, you know, like he,he's able to put us back
together again.
But we don't often we don'twant to like have to make that
(22:25):
our our story so often.
Sometimes it's nice just toobey the first time.
Liz (22:30):
Right, right.
Ben (22:32):
And especially when it comes to simple things like
running a family and with oursix kids.
We just knew that, like wewould save so much headache if
we could implement this strategyof first time obedience.
We would pay dividends.
And guess what it has paiddividends.
Liz (22:48):
I'm so thankful.
Ben (22:49):
We even had.
I know I'm kind of rambling onhere, but we even had one of our
kids recently, our youngest.
Liz (22:54):
Our youngest out of all of them, come up and tell us.
Ben (22:58):
Mom and dad, I want to say thank you for teaching us about
first-time obedience.
We were, we were with anotherfamily and, um, the kids were
acting up and there wasn't downthe hatches, down the hatches
was about to come out and do herfirst-time obedience training,
um, but no, like there wasanother family we were with and
you know things weren't goingwell and lots of disobedience.
(23:21):
Like lots of disobedience youknow the dad had would have to
repeat several times and countand all this stuff, and it was
like I'm still disobeying.
It was just, it was tiring Justlistening to him.
Liz (23:33):
Yeah.
Ben (23:34):
And then they finally left and and mom, dad, I want to say
thanks for teaching us firsttime obedience, because that was
bad.
Liz (23:49):
Yeah.
Ben (23:50):
And he, just he realized he was recognizing what it looks
like when you're not obedient toyour parents.
And he knew at what was he?
I don't know, nine maybe.
Liz (24:00):
Eight, nine, eight or nine he knew instinctively.
Ben (24:03):
that's not cool man, like it's just.
It's disrespectful to yourparents yeah, you don't want to
be that way.
Liz (24:14):
Yeah, and and the.
You know we've seen it in otherfamilies, as I'm sure you have,
and maybe this may be yourfamily, I don't know.
I mean, ours was certainlythere at one point, um, but you
know, just really stressed out,especially when it's times of
transition, like times to leaveand get in the car, or sit down
and have a meal or do bath timeor have to get off screens.
It's like you have to keepsaying it and keep saying it,
(24:34):
and I just watched families andI just want to say there's a
better way.
I think that's why we'retalking about this is because we
see it and-.
Ben (24:43):
We want to share that.
We want to share it.
It can be good.
Liz (24:46):
It can be good.
It's good and also, too, youknow, we've talked to um single
people, individuals, male andfemale, and they have said that
you know what they see they'relike.
I don't ever want to have kids,and I'm.
It hurts my heart becausechildren are a reward.
Ben (25:03):
That's what the Bible says.
The.
Liz (25:04):
Bible says that the children are your reward and the
Lord has rewarded us with six.
Ben (25:08):
Blessed is the man whose quiver is full.
Liz (25:09):
Yes, blessed is the man.
And you know, children are areward.
I love my kids, I enjoy my kids, we enjoy our kids, we enjoy
spending time with our kids Likeit's so fun.
And for someone to be jadedbecause of what they see out
there, it's like no, there's abetter way.
And see out there, it's like no, there's a better way.
(25:32):
And we often have invited thesesingle people into our home to
come and share a meal with us,especially if I hear that that's
rattling in their head throughthe years.
Come, be with us, because notthat we're perfect, trust me,
we're not.
Ben (25:41):
No, we're not, we're a mess .
Yeah, we're a mess.
That's why it's called our oneblessed mess.
Liz (25:45):
But we often have them come and share a meal with us or
have a game night with usbecause we want them to see like
there is a better way you know.
Ben (25:53):
And I just want to say something like it is kind of
counterculture to talk aboutobedience in such a forthright
way, because you know authorityhas been done wrong.
We've all seen the exampleswhere authority has been
misapplied.
It's been hypocritical.
Seen the examples whereauthority has been misapplied.
It's been hypocritical and evenespecially in church culture.
You know, like it's just, it'sdone bad.
(26:14):
We're broken people and itdoesn't often look good when
people try to have a clearauthority structure.
Liz (26:20):
However, however, however, however, you don't want
rebellion.
Ben (26:25):
No, you don't want the opposite, guys.
Just because authority hasn'tbeen done well doesn't mean that
the opposite is any better.
Right, in fact, it's worse.
And so we have to turn to thescriptures to see what the Lord
says about raising kids andabout obedience, and also just
about what he expects for forparents too Like you know, and
(26:51):
so one of the things that reallygot me um thinking about this,
this topic even more, was a bookcalled um the men we need by
Brant Hanson, Great bookincredible book my favorite
author, but incredible book andit talks about the role of
masculinity in society andspecifically, how it was started
(27:12):
in the Garden of Eden and justwhat we're expected to do as men
, and one of the primary thingswe're expected to do from the
Lord is to be a protector and tobe a provider, and so one of
the ways that you protect yourfamily and you protect your wife
as a father, as a parent, is toteach your kids obedience.
(27:34):
It's such a practical way to bea protector Super simple right.
If they obey, then they're moresafe.
As long as you are doing theright thing right, then they're
going to obey the right thing.
So it does have to.
You know it is predicated onyou doing the right thing and
being a good person.
But if you set that example andyou expect them to obey, then
(27:55):
there's like this trickle downblessing effect that happens and
your wife is super gratefulthat you step in.
Liz (28:03):
That's what I was going to say yeah, you protect me from
going crazy, so real quick.
Ben (28:09):
I think we have time for one more quick story.
Liz (28:10):
Oh no.
What story is this one?
Ben (28:12):
I remember, I believe it was coming home one day, oh gosh
.
And everybody just needed alittle ship up, shape up kind of
thing.
It didn't look like first.
Some obedience was going well.
I came home and I looked at youand I was like I know what to
do.
Liz (28:30):
I know what to do.
Ben (28:31):
You go to the bedroom.
I'm going to go talk to thekids and we worked it out with
the kids and I came back in andI said you're welcome.
And I went back down, or maybeit was starting work, I don't
remember.
Anyhow, I just came up and didthose couple things and then
later on you came back to me andyou're like thank you so much,
you're so attractive right now.
Liz (28:51):
It's true.
It's true.
Hey man, this is a, this is atip, this is a tip for you.
But no, there's actually acouple of stories around that,
you know I'm I'm thinking ofeven when, you know, covid hit
and we were thrown into COVIDschooling.
Ben (29:07):
Oh yeah.
Liz (29:08):
That's not homeschooling.
It was crisis schooling.
Ben (29:10):
Crisis schooling?
Liz (29:10):
Yeah, because our kids were in school at that time we
weren't homeschooling yet andeverything had to come home and
these poor, precious teacherswere trying to duplicate what
was happening in the classroomsat home and that was just nearly
impossible.
And so the kids were just like.
You know, it was a lot.
And I remember one morning,like I was already so stressed
(29:33):
and you gathered the troops andyou gave them the what for, and
I mean, it was, you know, it'sdad.
But uh, it changed everythingand I I thought I haven't even
gotten my coffee yet- Like itjust awesome, so awesome.
Ben (30:01):
It's going to be a good, good day.
A good day and his mercy andhis grace, and I love that too.
But we would be foolish tothink that he doesn't also get
angry and that he's also not ajudge.
And you know, what's good aboutthose things Is he gets angry
at the things that are bad.
He doesn't get angry at thethings that are good and he
(30:24):
loves us even when we do thosebad things.
It's true.
But he still wants justice andthat's a good thing, like we
want to be saved from bad thingsand we want God's justice to
come on the earth.
And so part of like doing thisfirst time obedience is like
connecting our kids and showingthem this concept that there is
(30:47):
an authority and it's a goodauthority.
And as long as you areconnected to the heart of the
Lord and you are loving yourkids in a righteous way, then
it's okay to make sure that theywant to obey and it's okay to
like, show and live that exampleeven as you obey the Lord.
Liz (31:03):
Right and it's good.
Ben (31:05):
You know it's not popular because we like to just kind of
skip past the judgment of God.
But it's there for a reason.
It's there for our own good,it's there to keep us out of
trouble.
And it's there as a reminder,once we are in trouble, that,
like hey, god's anger lasts fora little while, but his mercy
endures forever.
Forever, and so, yeah, we justwant to connect with God's whole
heart.
We don't want to make sure thatwe are doing it in the right
(31:27):
way, and we also want to makesure that we're not stressed out
, that's the biggest thing wedon't want to be stressed out
Peace, peace.
Liz (31:39):
I love everything that you just said.
That's really good and I thinkthat's a good note to wrap all
of this up on.
We'll have a link in the notesfor Brant Hansen's book.
Ben (31:45):
Yeah.
Liz (31:46):
It is a really good book.
He's our favorite author.
We hope to meet him one day.
Ben's kind of a fan fan manover here.
Ben (31:52):
Oh, fan boy, he's a fan man Bromance.
Liz (31:54):
Yeah, we'd love to meet him , but we want to say thank you
for being a part of our OneBlessed Mess today.
Don't forget to like, subscribe, share heart, give the thumbs
up whatever platform you'relistening this to on or watching
and then also to feel free toshare with your friends and your
family.
That needs some encouragement.
(32:15):
We went kind of heavy and kindof deep today on a couple of
things.
We hope that it blesses you weknow that it has blessed our
lives and also follow us onInstagram.
Our handle is at our onenumeric one blessed mess.
Our course, our acronym is ourone BM.
Okay, we don't have that handle, but anyway, but until next
(32:37):
time, we just want to sayembrace your beautiful mess,
because if our mess is blessed,and so can yours.
So can yours.
All right, welcome to our One Blessed Mess.
This is Ben and Liz, and we areso excited to be here today
with you.
We're here about talking aboutour story with raising six kids
in eight years and managing ourentrepreneurial home with two
businesses while homeschooling,and also currently navigating
life with four teenagers foursoon to be five plus eight
(00:32):
chickens and two dogs, just tokeep life interesting.
Also, what is our acronym forour one blessed mess?
Ben (00:41):
O1BM.
Liz (00:42):
O1BM.
Ben (00:43):
And Liz likes to say R1 BM.
Liz (00:45):
R1 BM, so it kind of.
Ben (00:48):
That's a joke.
Liz (00:49):
Yeah, we talked about it earlier.
Ben (00:50):
It's in earlier episodes.
It's some potty humor andunfortunately I never grew out
of potty humor.
Liz (00:56):
So still funny to this day.
It's yes, sometimes I'm raisingseven kids, not six.
Ben (01:02):
Yeah, this is true, and you had to do some first time
obedience with me even.
Liz (01:06):
Yes, yes, yes, which is what we're talking about today.
It is what we're talking abouttoday.
Ben (01:10):
This is the second part of our first time obedience cover
or topic, I guess you would say,and we're going to dive right
back in, but you were telling meright before this that you had
a funny story Okay.
Liz (01:23):
So this story is really hilarious.
I just had this memory andthought I would share it with
you guys, because everybodyneeds a good laugh every now and
then, especially on a heavytopic like what we're talking
about right now.
So Christmas I got these decalsand had the nativity set up, so
like decals that you put on awindow, right.
Ben (01:43):
They're like the sticky ones.
Yeah, like on sliding glass.
Liz (01:45):
Yeah, like on our sliding glass door, and I that's
something that I do in my house.
Depending on what holiday we'recelebrating, I always put these
little decals up there and andit gives the kids something to
do while we're decorating.
It's kind of fun, so they comeoff and go back on.
Ben (01:57):
Well, anyway, I have the nat's visiting us and they
didn't just put the nativity up,they actually, like, started
writing on these little stickywith a sharpie, with a sharpie,
yeah, with a sharpie.
Liz (02:10):
Which?
And putting things you know,fun things, right like mary and
joseph, mary and joseph, littlelike noel and uh-huh yeah.
Ben (02:17):
But but there was something on the donkey.
Liz (02:20):
what was on the donkey list ?
I'm looking at the donkey andI'm like, oh my gosh, I saw it
too.
Does that say what I think itsays?
It looks like it spells out adollar, sign dollar sign, but
not dollar signs.
Ben (02:40):
Let the reader understand.
Liz (02:41):
Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, that is hilarious.
So what do I do?
Ben (02:45):
Naturally, I grab my phone and take a video of it.
Liz (02:47):
It was done in, like you know someone's handwriting that
was really rough and veryjuvenile, and so you're like how
did they connect those things?
Ben (02:55):
I?
Liz (02:55):
didn't know if it was one of my kids or the cousins or
something.
So it turns out it was my nieceand I asked her.
So innocent, so innocent, hey.
So they said you wrote on this.
Tell me what did you writethere?
She's like I wrote.
Ben (03:09):
UGG?
That does not look like UGG.
That does not look like UGG.
Liz (03:11):
And you guys, this is right before.
We had the church over.
Ben (03:14):
Like the church was on their way, the church was on
their way.
Liz (03:17):
We're doing home church, yeah, they were all coming over
that day, like right before theyarrived, I thought, oh, this is
funny, this is very funny.
So we just thought we'd tellyou that funny story because it
just happened, so all right,good times.
So the topic we're jumping intotoday.
Ben (03:32):
Yeah, so we're going to pick back up where we left off
on the first time obedience.
We just finished talking aboutthe example with our daughter in
the diaper and Pros and cons.
Yeah, pros and cons, and we'lljust do a real quick recap on
the concept, just so you know ifyou are starting out on this
episode, you can go back and andand watch the first one, but
(03:53):
you won't have to justcompletely come in blind.
So, first time obedience isthis concept of uh training kids
, especially young kids, uh, andeven specifically young kids,
how to obey the first time adirective is given and for
reasons that are quite obvioussafety, consistency, learning
and expecting to understandabout authority and even just
(04:16):
establishing safety and peacefor the parent and for the child
.
So that's kind of the pros.
We talked about some of thecons also, where, if you just
stop there right on this conceptof first-time obedience and
that is exclusively the way thatyou relate to your child, but
(04:45):
it helps to lay this foundationbecause it makes other things so
much easier, and so that wasone of the other things we were
talking about is like thedividends that this kind of pays
later on in life, especiallywith teenagers.
You know, if you have kids thatare used to obeying like that
opens up so many morepossibilities for you to be able
to spend your energy and otherthings besides getting them to
(05:08):
obey.
Liz (05:10):
Right.
Ben (05:10):
So we just talked about, you know, our daughter's diaper
and how we got real intense inthe training and you know she
finally dropped it.
Yeah, yeah.
And one time and then basicallythat set her default with how
she relates to both liz and Iand she's one of our most
obedient kids and we really haveobedient kids, I mean well,
(05:33):
what about?
Liz (05:34):
what about when a certain other daughter was um, so yeah,
so this was before we had, wehad established this training.
This is probably why we foundthis training.
Ben (05:47):
We might have come to our wits end through this experience
, and so we were looking at.
You know what we could dodifferently?
Liz (05:54):
Because we were a growing family and had another baby on
the way.
Ben (05:57):
Yeah, yeah and so when our oldest daughter hit about three.
Liz (06:04):
Three, three and a half.
Ben (06:06):
It was extremely challenging.
She is strong-willed.
We have a couple.
Liz (06:11):
Well, they're all strong-willed.
We have a couple strong.
Yeah, they're all strong.
Ben (06:14):
Some are stronger than others, but our oldest daughter
had such a strong willpower thatwe just didn't know what to do.
We were besides ourselves.
We tried various forms ofdisciplining and different
tactics and, you know, nothingseemed to work.
And we were like, literally atour end.
She would growl, she was mad.
We thought she was likemanifesting.
(06:35):
Well, no, kidding, yeah, wethought she was.
Liz (06:38):
I actually went to a lady in our church that I really
respect and met with her and Ijust said I'm wondering if my
daughter needs deliverance orsomething's going on Like I
didn't even know she's like nope, she said she's three and she
has a lot of estrogen, and thathelped me dive into a direction
(07:01):
to figure out what's physicallygoing on in her body.
And that is true when they'rethree and four years old,
especially in girls.
That flood of hormones is veryreal and it's there for about
five.
Then it starts to really startmellowing out and then it starts
coming back and rising in eightand nine.
But that's because they'rethey're preteens and tweens and
we know, we know.
(07:21):
So, anyway, with her um,introducing this was a little
bit different.
It wasn't just a one and a done.
Part of that was because it wasshe was a little older.
Now I always say, um, if, if,work on getting your kids you
know, work with your kidsbecoming obedient.
When you say what you say, youmean um, and they know it and
they follow through.
And being consistent, becauseif you don't nip it in the bud
(07:42):
like now, so to speak I don'tknow how else to say it but if
you don't get there now, thenthe next year is going to be
harder, then the next year isgoing to be harder 10 years from
now will be a nightmare.
Yeah, it will, Because you, youknow, you want to work with them
when they're younger.
So she was like three, fouryears old and it was a little it
was intense.
Ben (08:03):
We finally figured out something that worked, where we
basically, you know, put her inher room and tell her to come
out when she had a happy heartand for some reason that clicked
.
Liz (08:13):
It took a little while.
So, yeah, we were consistent.
So, as soon as she would, shewould start to get upset for
whatever.
It didn't even matter.
It could be that she was eatingwith the wrong color spoon, you
know, um, you know.
Or she didn't even matter, itcould be that she was eating
with the wrong color spoon, youknow, you know, or she didn't
get an extra French fry, like Imean, it was silly little things
like that, and her emotionswould just start going and she
hadn't learned.
It was a spiral, yeah.
(08:34):
And so as soon as we saw that,we would say hey, you, you know,
get a happy heart.
You need to have a happy heart.
We explained what a happy heartis.
If you can't have a happy heart, you need to have a happy heart
.
We explain what a happy heartis.
If you can't have a happy heart, then we need you to go to your
room and you're going to stayin your room until you have a
happy heart.
So we were kind of removing herfrom the situation and then we
did things creative, like if shehad a bad attitude, your
attitude is not good, you'regoing to go throw your bad.
Ben (08:59):
You know, we realize why our attitude is bad.
Liz (09:01):
We're going to let her go to the trash and throw her bad
attitude in there or flush itdown the toilet because we did
that as well and you know shewas better, but getting the
whole family to get on boardwith the first time obedience
(09:28):
thing, and it's not necessarilya one and done like.
Ben (09:31):
even with our other daughter, we still had to remind
her.
This is what we're doing, guys.
We're kind of slacking in thisBecause we're human, yeah, we're
human.
And people fail, we fail.
Liz (09:41):
Our kids fail.
Ben (09:45):
We go on trips, or there'd be a slew of sickness that would
come through the house, or I'dhave a baby or I'm newly
pregnant.
We have to know what wasdifferent about what the norm
was and why things weren'tworking.
And then, when it was, timeit's like.
it's kind of like, you know,when people get on diets and
they get off the diet train,then they get back on the diet
train, so something like thatyou know it's just that, coming
back to it, coming back to it,yeah, so you can't yeah, you
can't be too dogmatic about it,but we knew that, overall, this
(10:06):
is where we want our family togo is?
We wanted to make sure thatthey responded to us and they,
um, uh, would obey, you know,the first time that we we asked
them to do something.
So let's talk about what whatit doesn't look like, maybe.
Oh, what does?
It Do you remember our friendMr Ezra.
Liz (10:24):
Oh yes.
Ben (10:25):
He was a cute kid.
Liz (10:26):
So cute, I fell in love with him.
Ben (10:28):
We met this kid in Ireland and let me tell you he had this
crazy bubbly personality.
Yeah, he loved being able to bein the limelight and just go
right up and talk to strangers.
And so we met this kid at thispark and it was in Southern
Ireland and it was like a resort.
Liz (10:46):
We were celebrating our 20th anniversary.
Yeah, 20th anniversary.
Ben (10:49):
Celebrating and this kid comes up to us and we strike up
a relationship and you knowspecifically he was talking to
you.
Liz (10:57):
Well, I just, I just love little kids, you know, and I
love especially his age.
He was four, and so I just lovethe way they think and how
expressive they are.
And you know, if you want tohave a great conversation, sit
down with some four-year-oldsand you're going to laugh
because the way they view theworld is hilarious and it's so,
(11:19):
so inspiring, you know.
Ben (11:20):
So that was the positive of meeting Mr Ezra.
Liz (11:23):
But what was?
Ben (11:24):
what was the negative thing that we saw shortly after that?
Liz (11:27):
So we were at dinner and this is how we met him.
Uh, we were at dinner and theirtable, the reservation, was
right behind us, and so, um, youknow, he strikes up a
conversation with me actually a,little cutie, cutie pie and uh,
we start talking and um, andthen I can't remember exactly
what happened, but his mothermade a comment where and we're
(11:47):
just meeting these people wereover in Europe, right, and
they're American.
So you know, we're like, ohhappy to meet some more
Americans and interested in whatthey're doing there, plus with
their kids.
I thought that was brilliant.
But there were a lot of peoplefrom all over the world, a lot
of people celebrating 50 and 60years of marriage, which was
really cool.
But she makes the comment to methat they have another daughter
(12:09):
and she's so cute.
She's, I think, a little overone, and she said, oh, she's the
, because she was having ameltdown, she was tired, she
wanted to go to bed, she wantedto use the spoon, she didn't
want her mom to feed her.
You know all those littlethings that happen as they're
gaining their independence.
Ben (12:23):
We were trying to console her, yeah, I was like oh, she's
so cute, yeah, and I was likeyou're doing such a great job as
a mom and she goes well.
Liz (12:29):
She's the easy one, he's the hard one and I thought, gosh
, this kid's been pretty awesomewith me.
Ben (12:34):
We're like wow he's hard.
I'm like.
Liz (12:40):
Well, no, that night.
Ben (12:41):
Oh, was it that night?
Liz (12:43):
He started because he didn't want to leave.
That's right.
Ben (12:45):
There was two episodes, so two episodes with Mr Ezra.
The first time he didn't wantto leave, that's right.
I just remembered that.
And he just started pitching afit, and I don't mean like, like
a little fit it was likescreaming, throwing things, he
wouldn't like go to the chair.
His dad literally is liketrying to yank him off the chair
.
Liz (13:04):
It was wild, it was crazy.
Ben (13:05):
It was like you were dealing with a wild animal.
Liz (13:07):
Yeah, it was wild, and we were just.
Ben (13:09):
we were mostly shocked by how intense they let him get and
then, like that, it was almostnormal.
Liz (13:17):
Well, and, and the thing is , I want to say, like we have,
like our understanding and ourfamily how we do things.
We weren't the only ones.
There were people from all overthe world Like turning looking,
I mean making comments.
I mean it was pretty intense.
Okay, so that's the first thingNext morning we go and we have
breakfast because we're at aresort.
Ben (13:39):
We're at a resort.
At the resort, we go in for thecontinental breakfast.
That's there and it's good.
Oh no, this is like.
The english don't even callthat a continental breakfast.
What are you doing?
It was it?
Liz (13:47):
was a.
It was an irish breakfast.
It was the lay of the land likeit was great.
Ben (13:54):
Oh my gosh, take me back.
Can we go back?
I don't know.
I don't know if we can affordit.
Please take me it was like aonce in 20 years kind of trip.
But, anyways, we show up at therestaurant and there we hear
Ezra as we're walking in.
Liz (14:07):
Yeah, and before that started he sees me, okay.
So he sees me and you knowwe've made a little connection.
I'm like hi, how'd you sleep?
You know, trying to keep thingsbecause the night before was
pretty intense, like it wasintense like manager coming,
servers coming, and so he's likeI did good and we have been
(14:27):
already seated and I'm justpicking up a few more things at
this delicious breakfast bar andI leave him.
Well, he starts talking to hismom and then we start hearing
him screaming and he's like inan adjacent room and we're in
the most beautiful location withall these windows overlooking
the cliffs, with, you know, Imean other people who were
(14:48):
traveling and we had, by thistime, had met other couples and
you know, 60 years.
Somebody else was there for 30years, 50 years, there was
somebody else celebrating agraduation, there was a lot that
was going on and I mean thewhole area that we were sitting
in, this big breakfast area,started getting tense and he's
screaming.
Ben (15:08):
And you guys, it wasn't 10 minutes, it wasn't 20 minutes,
it wasn't 30 minutes, it had tohave been at least 40 minutes
and it could have even beenlonger, but it was so intense
and it was so bad that the waitstaff was actually coming up
asking if they could do anythingand that's when you know like
it's gotten out of control waslike it was affecting the entire
flow of the restaurant, andwhat was sad about it is like
(15:32):
here's this couple whoundoubtedly spent, you know,
lots of money to come over andhave this enjoyable time and to
enjoy it with the kids, and itwas ruining it not only for them
, but pretty much everybody inthe restaurant.
Yeah, yeah, you know all,because this child wouldn't obey
.
Liz (15:48):
And what he wanted to do.
I found out later because weran into them again.
And you know and I still prayfor this kid because I know he
has a great little call on hislife Like God has a big plan for
him.
He's so adorable.
But he was upset because hewanted to come have breakfast
with you and I.
(16:09):
That's why he was screaming andthe mom told me that and she
said I told him he couldn'tbecause you guys had a
two-seater, which was true.
I think I would have justinvited him to come to the table
.
Ben (16:17):
I mean, yeah, honestly, I, you guys had a two-seater, which
was true.
I think I would have justinvited him to come to the table
.
I mean yeah, honestly, Iprobably should have just said
Worked on first time obedience,later Just given into the kid.
Liz (16:26):
Well, and in the conversation with her you know,
she was telling me that this isa pattern.
This is something that he doesall the time.
Ben (16:33):
Yeah, and, but why?
Why do you think that happens?
Liz (16:37):
Well, I try to drop little hints.
Ben (16:40):
We don't know why.
I mean, we do know why.
Liz (16:42):
Yeah, we know why we know why?
Ben (16:43):
It's because it's tolerated .
Liz (16:45):
Yeah, it's tolerated, it was tolerated.
Ben (16:46):
It was probably tolerated at home.
Liz (16:47):
Yeah, it is.
Ben (16:48):
And then this is what you get when you're out and about
and when you're with strangers.
Liz (17:04):
Right, and then there was another third episode that
happened.
They all went to sing karaokeand they told him to, he got up
there, but then they told him hehad to get off stage and he
didn't want to and it ended upbeing a fiasco.
When she told me about thatCause, we saw him again later
that night after this thing, andso this is like a pattern and
so in like, if you know me, I'mtrying to like gently bring up
(17:25):
maybe a suggestion, because wehave so many kids, you know,
with all different personalitytypes, extremely strong-willed,
still strong-willed, you knowall these kinds of things, and
I'm like there is a better way,like there is a better way, and
I did share a little bit withher.
I think it kind of set her on apath to begin to think and
maybe go down this, because thiskid there was like no
(17:49):
boundaries, it was like whateverhe felt.
Ben (17:52):
His will was at odds with his parents and he was winning.
That was the honest truth wasthat they were letting him
dictate how the family was run,and that's kind of.
That's kind of what we'retrying to say is what we want to
avoid Like with this, with thistactic you know, this first
time obedience tactic it'sreally about making sure that
there's a correct authoritystructure and you don't have to
(18:14):
abuse it.
Liz (18:15):
No, please do not.
Ben (18:17):
And that's where it gets a bad rap right.
Is because you've got theseparents that think only in terms
of first time obedience andthey don't ever move beyond that
.
But we have to say like thishas saved us so much headache,
so much drama so much stress andso much time.
Like can you imagine being ableto tell your kids hey, we got
(18:39):
to get ready to go.
Everything needs to be cleanedup, picked up, and when you're
going to walk out the door in 10minutes and them actually doing
it?
Liz (18:46):
Ours do that, ours do that, ours really do that.
Ben (18:47):
That's the normal behavior yeah.
Liz (18:49):
And they get their coats on , they get their shoes on, they
get their backpacks.
Ben (18:53):
And they're not robots, they're super creative
individuals that if you startgoing and cutting up with them,
they will cut up and they willget into the most fun trouble
you've ever had in your life.
And I love that.
I love that about my kids theylove to cut up and they love to
have a good time.
But when we get serious andwhen we know and we say like,
hey, this is what we're doing,guys they do it yeah.
(19:13):
It started.
It's such a blessing.
Liz (19:15):
Yeah, we've trained on it and you should tell the elephant
story.
Ben (19:19):
Yeah, there's, there's a good story about the elephant.
I love telling the story becauseI think it encapsulates kind of
this concept, but in the animalkingdom maybe a little bit.
And it's a story about thispreserve in South Africa, the
Kruger National Park, and youcan look this up online.
I'm sure you can Google it andfind the more details, because
I'm just going to give you justthe basics.
(19:41):
But there was a preserve andthings were going so well.
They were having an abundanceof elephant population, so
they're having too manyelephants.
They needed to relocate them,and the only way they could
relocate them effectively was touse these helicopters, and so
the helicopters had a harness.
They would take elephants upone by one and move them to this
(20:02):
other preserve, and they weredoing a great job.
But they couldn't get the oldermale bulls because they weighed
so much, and so the harness andthe helicopters weren't able to
effectively lift them, so theyhad to leave them behind.
So all these elephants gotmoved over to the other preserve
and everything was great, thisparticular one.
At the new one, though, theywere noticing something kind of
(20:25):
crazy.
They were noticing that a bunchof the rhinos were being
slaughtered and it wasn'tpoachers, because the tusks were
still left on the animal.
They were just being trampledand killed and gored.
Liz (20:39):
Yeah.
Ben (20:43):
And it was almost like someone was doing it for fun.
There seemed to be no rhyme orreason why these rhinos were
being killed.
And then the staff there atthis new preserve they noticed
that there were other animalsbeing killed, and so they were
trying to figure out what isgoing on.
Well, they set up some wildlifecameras and stuff and they were
able to witness young bullsgoing and doing this, going and
(21:05):
killing, and they were trying tofigure out what can we do to
stop this.
So someone had a great idea,which was to go back and
reintroduce some of the olderbulls to the new preserve.
Liz (21:17):
Yep.
Ben (21:17):
Guess what happened.
As soon as they put those olderbulls, the ones that had the
ability to enforce their will onthe younger bulls, it all
cleared up and there was a clearauthority structure and those
young bull elephants changedtheir behavior.
Liz (21:37):
They changed their ways.
Ben (21:38):
Because there was an authority structure and there
was, honestly, a will that wasgreater than theirs that was
being enforced, and I feel likethat's a that's a great kind of
like animal kingdom snapshot, asinto what we're talking about
here is we, we.
Sometimes we just need anotherwill exerted on ours in order
for us to shape up.
That happens with us as adultsin the form of, like God, just
(22:03):
kind of saying, no, you can'treally do that, you need to do
this.
And sometimes we run headlongthe other direction, like Jonah.
But God ends up having his way,you know, and through
circumstances, and finallythrough our obedience and our
submission, you know, like he,he's able to put us back
together again.
But we don't often we don'twant to like have to make that
(22:25):
our our story so often.
Sometimes it's nice just toobey the first time.
Liz (22:30):
Right, right.
Ben (22:32):
And especially when it comes to simple things like
running a family and with oursix kids.
We just knew that, like wewould save so much headache if
we could implement this strategyof first time obedience.
We would pay dividends.
And guess what it has paiddividends.
Liz (22:48):
I'm so thankful.
Ben (22:49):
We even had.
I know I'm kind of rambling onhere, but we even had one of our
kids recently, our youngest.
Liz (22:54):
Our youngest out of all of them, come up and tell us.
Ben (22:58):
Mom and dad, I want to say thank you for teaching us about
first-time obedience.
We were, we were with anotherfamily and, um, the kids were
acting up and there wasn't downthe hatches, down the hatches
was about to come out and do herfirst-time obedience training,
um, but no, like there wasanother family we were with and
you know things weren't goingwell and lots of disobedience.
(23:21):
Like lots of disobedience youknow the dad had would have to
repeat several times and countand all this stuff, and it was
like I'm still disobeying.
It was just, it was tiring Justlistening to him.
Liz (23:33):
Yeah.
Ben (23:34):
And then they finally left and and mom, dad, I want to say
thanks for teaching us firsttime obedience, because that was
bad.
Liz (23:49):
Yeah.
Ben (23:50):
And he, just he realized he was recognizing what it looks
like when you're not obedient toyour parents.
And he knew at what was he?
I don't know, nine maybe.
Liz (24:00):
Eight, nine, eight or nine he knew instinctively.
Ben (24:03):
that's not cool man, like it's just.
It's disrespectful to yourparents yeah, you don't want to
be that way.
Liz (24:14):
Yeah, and and the.
You know we've seen it in otherfamilies, as I'm sure you have,
and maybe this may be yourfamily, I don't know.
I mean, ours was certainlythere at one point, um, but you
know, just really stressed out,especially when it's times of
transition, like times to leaveand get in the car, or sit down
and have a meal or do bath timeor have to get off screens.
It's like you have to keepsaying it and keep saying it,
(24:34):
and I just watched families andI just want to say there's a
better way.
I think that's why we'retalking about this is because we
see it and-.
Ben (24:43):
We want to share that.
We want to share it.
It can be good.
Liz (24:46):
It can be good.
It's good and also, too, youknow, we've talked to um single
people, individuals, male andfemale, and they have said that
you know what they see they'relike.
I don't ever want to have kids,and I'm.
It hurts my heart becausechildren are a reward.
Ben (25:03):
That's what the Bible says.
The.
Liz (25:04):
Bible says that the children are your reward and the
Lord has rewarded us with six.
Ben (25:08):
Blessed is the man whose quiver is full.
Liz (25:09):
Yes, blessed is the man.
And you know, children are areward.
I love my kids, I enjoy my kids, we enjoy our kids, we enjoy
spending time with our kids Likeit's so fun.
And for someone to be jadedbecause of what they see out
there, it's like no, there's abetter way.
And see out there, it's like no, there's a better way.
(25:32):
And we often have invited thesesingle people into our home to
come and share a meal with us,especially if I hear that that's
rattling in their head throughthe years.
Come, be with us, because notthat we're perfect, trust me,
we're not.
Ben (25:41):
No, we're not, we're a mess .
Yeah, we're a mess.
That's why it's called our oneblessed mess.
Liz (25:45):
But we often have them come and share a meal with us or
have a game night with usbecause we want them to see like
there is a better way you know.
Ben (25:53):
And I just want to say something like it is kind of
counterculture to talk aboutobedience in such a forthright
way, because you know authorityhas been done wrong.
We've all seen the exampleswhere authority has been
misapplied.
It's been hypocritical.
Seen the examples whereauthority has been misapplied.
It's been hypocritical and evenespecially in church culture.
You know, like it's just, it'sdone bad.
(26:14):
We're broken people and itdoesn't often look good when
people try to have a clearauthority structure.
Liz (26:20):
However, however, however, however, you don't want
rebellion.
Ben (26:25):
No, you don't want the opposite, guys.
Just because authority hasn'tbeen done well doesn't mean that
the opposite is any better.
Right, in fact, it's worse.
And so we have to turn to thescriptures to see what the Lord
says about raising kids andabout obedience, and also just
about what he expects for forparents too Like you know, and
(26:51):
so one of the things that reallygot me um thinking about this,
this topic even more, was a bookcalled um the men we need by
Brant Hanson, Great bookincredible book my favorite
author, but incredible book andit talks about the role of
masculinity in society andspecifically, how it was started
(27:12):
in the Garden of Eden and justwhat we're expected to do as men
, and one of the primary thingswe're expected to do from the
Lord is to be a protector and tobe a provider, and so one of
the ways that you protect yourfamily and you protect your wife
as a father, as a parent, is toteach your kids obedience.
(27:34):
It's such a practical way to bea protector Super simple right.
If they obey, then they're moresafe.
As long as you are doing theright thing right, then they're
going to obey the right thing.
So it does have to.
You know it is predicated onyou doing the right thing and
being a good person.
But if you set that example andyou expect them to obey, then
(27:55):
there's like this trickle downblessing effect that happens and
your wife is super gratefulthat you step in.
Liz (28:03):
That's what I was going to say yeah, you protect me from
going crazy, so real quick.
Ben (28:09):
I think we have time for one more quick story.
Liz (28:10):
Oh no.
What story is this one?
Ben (28:12):
I remember, I believe it was coming home one day, oh gosh
.
And everybody just needed alittle ship up, shape up kind of
thing.
It didn't look like first.
Some obedience was going well.
I came home and I looked at youand I was like I know what to
do.
Liz (28:30):
I know what to do.
Ben (28:31):
You go to the bedroom.
I'm going to go talk to thekids and we worked it out with
the kids and I came back in andI said you're welcome.
And I went back down, or maybeit was starting work, I don't
remember.
Anyhow, I just came up and didthose couple things and then
later on you came back to me andyou're like thank you so much,
you're so attractive right now.
Liz (28:51):
It's true.
It's true.
Hey man, this is a, this is atip, this is a tip for you.
But no, there's actually acouple of stories around that,
you know I'm I'm thinking ofeven when, you know, covid hit
and we were thrown into COVIDschooling.
Ben (29:07):
Oh yeah.
Liz (29:08):
That's not homeschooling.
It was crisis schooling.
Ben (29:10):
Crisis schooling?
Liz (29:10):
Yeah, because our kids were in school at that time we
weren't homeschooling yet andeverything had to come home and
these poor, precious teacherswere trying to duplicate what
was happening in the classroomsat home and that was just nearly
impossible.
And so the kids were just like.
You know, it was a lot.
And I remember one morning,like I was already so stressed
(29:33):
and you gathered the troops andyou gave them the what for, and
I mean, it was, you know, it'sdad.
But uh, it changed everythingand I I thought I haven't even
gotten my coffee yet- Like itjust awesome, so awesome.
Ben (30:01):
It's going to be a good, good day.
A good day and his mercy andhis grace, and I love that too.
But we would be foolish tothink that he doesn't also get
angry and that he's also not ajudge.
And you know, what's good aboutthose things Is he gets angry
at the things that are bad.
He doesn't get angry at thethings that are good and he
(30:24):
loves us even when we do thosebad things.
It's true.
But he still wants justice andthat's a good thing, like we
want to be saved from bad thingsand we want God's justice to
come on the earth.
And so part of like doing thisfirst time obedience is like
connecting our kids and showingthem this concept that there is
(30:47):
an authority and it's a goodauthority.
And as long as you areconnected to the heart of the
Lord and you are loving yourkids in a righteous way, then
it's okay to make sure that theywant to obey and it's okay to
like, show and live that exampleeven as you obey the Lord.
Liz (31:03):
Right and it's good.
Ben (31:05):
You know it's not popular because we like to just kind of
skip past the judgment of God.
But it's there for a reason.
It's there for our own good,it's there to keep us out of
trouble.
And it's there as a reminder,once we are in trouble, that,
like hey, god's anger lasts fora little while, but his mercy
endures forever.
Forever, and so, yeah, we justwant to connect with God's whole
heart.
We don't want to make sure thatwe are doing it in the right
(31:27):
way, and we also want to makesure that we're not stressed out
, that's the biggest thing wedon't want to be stressed out
Peace, peace.
Liz (31:39):
I love everything that you just said.
That's really good and I thinkthat's a good note to wrap all
of this up on.
We'll have a link in the notesfor Brant Hansen's book.
Ben (31:45):
Yeah.
Liz (31:46):
It is a really good book.
He's our favorite author.
We hope to meet him one day.
Ben's kind of a fan fan manover here.
Ben (31:52):
Oh, fan boy, he's a fan man Bromance.
Liz (31:54):
Yeah, we'd love to meet him , but we want to say thank you
for being a part of our OneBlessed Mess today.
Don't forget to like, subscribe, share heart, give the thumbs
up whatever platform you'relistening this to on or watching
and then also to feel free toshare with your friends and your
family.
That needs some encouragement.
(32:15):
We went kind of heavy and kindof deep today on a couple of
things.
We hope that it blesses you weknow that it has blessed our
lives and also follow us onInstagram.
Our handle is at our onenumeric one blessed mess.
Our course, our acronym is ourone BM.
Okay, we don't have that handle, but anyway, but until next
(32:37):
time, we just want to sayembrace your beautiful mess,
because if our mess is blessed,and so can yours.
So can yours.
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