January 31, 2025 • 34 mins
Get Brant's Book "Unoffendable" (affiliate link)
Who knew a rubber rat could spark such hilarity in our household? Join us as we share the chaos of losing Mama Jean, our beloved chicken, to a fox, and the unexpected levity that followed when Liz stumbled upon what she thought was a real rat during a cleaning spree. The ensuing family prank involving the rubber rodent added a much-needed dose of humor and surprise to our bustling lives, filled with homeschooling, running two businesses, and caring for our farm. Every day is an adventure, and these moments remind us of the vibrant tapestry of family life.
Beyond the laughter, we explore meaningful discussions on unoffendability and cultural redemption. Inspired by the humorous yet profound writings of an extraordinary individual on the autism spectrum, we reflect on the modern epidemic of taking offense and how letting go of righteous anger can be liberating. Unpack the societal implications of holding grudges and learn from personal anecdotes like our "furniture story," which highlights how offense can seep into everyday relationships. Join us on this journey of humor, healing, and heartfelt conversations, and discover how embracing forgiveness can transform not just our own lives but the broader culture too.
Your Listening to our 1 blessed mess, with ben and liz
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Liz (00:06):
All right, welcome to our One Blessed Mess.
This is Ben and Liz, and we arehere with our story of having
six kids in eight years,managing our entrepreneurial
home with two businesses,homeschooling and currently
navigating life with not one,not two, not three, but four
teenagers, plus seven chickensand two dogs, just to keep it
(00:30):
interesting, yeah.
Ben (00:32):
You might have noticed a different number of chickens.
We had a little boo-boo happen.
Liz (00:39):
We did.
Oh, it's so sad.
We lost our favorite chickenyesterday.
Actually, she was Mama Jean.
Mama Jean, she took care of allof our baby chicks that we have
hatched from the incubator andthat's like a whole nother
episode that we'll have to talkabout that.
But we lost her and it happens.
It happens sometimes on thefarm.
Ben (01:01):
Yeah, it was sad.
We had a door malfunction andunfortunately a fox got a hold
of it.
Liz (01:08):
Yeah, that part's pretty sad and that does happen, and we
get critters on our property,you know.
Ben (01:13):
We do All kinds of critters Every now and then.
Sometimes we even get crittersinside our house too.
Liz (01:19):
Really Like when.
Ben (01:22):
Well, I'm thinking of a very specific example, in our
bedroom actually.
Liz (01:26):
Wait, you mean you, the animal in our bedroom?
No, I'm just kidding.
No, come on, I live there.
I mean, I know I'm an animaland all that, just kidding.
No, I'm thinking of the animal.
Ben (01:38):
Well, I guess, yeah, the animal that you found behind.
Liz (01:43):
Oh, okay, I know what story you're talking about.
Okay, we should share this.
This is actually a very funnystory, so I'll give the
backstory to it.
I guess we have a graveldriveway.
Yeah Right, gravel driveway,okay, and we get a lot of rain
where we live, and so Ben neededto put in culverts because the
(02:04):
rocks were.
We got new rock and it wasgoing away, so he and the kids
were on a mission to get the newculverts in the ground.
While they were outside doingthat, I was inside deep cleaning
our bedroom I'm talkingbaseboards and taking everything
off shelves and everything.
I was just full on cleaning ourbedroom and I was behind this
one particular bookshelf, likein the corner, and as I was
(02:27):
getting all the books off of thebookshelf, I looked behind to
see if anything's ever fallenback there.
And lo and behold, what did youfind?
Ben (02:35):
What did you find I?
Liz (02:36):
found this blob that look.
It looked like a rat.
That's what it looked like arat.
Ben (02:43):
What color was it?
Liz (02:43):
It was black.
I mean it was dark behind thebookshelf because the way the
lights were hitting it.
So, of course.
I mean, I felt it in my throat,I felt it in my stomach and so
I quickly went outside in myflip-flops and this is an
important detail about theseflip-flops.
So I ran outside real quick toget Ben, but I gently whispered
it to you because I didn't wantthe kids to be distracted.
Ben (03:05):
Right, right, right, right and you know, tried to hold.
Liz (03:08):
yeah, try to keep the peace trying to keep the peace and
also for them to not you know,no, because then it would be a
big.
Oh, it'd be a big distraction.
Ben (03:16):
Yeah, that would have been bye-bye, culvert time and hello
rat hunt, that's right, right.
Liz (03:27):
So I I tell ben and you say , well, I can't go in there
right now and take care of it.
Ben (03:29):
I've got to get these culverts.
Yeah, the sun was setting, sowe had to.
Liz (03:31):
We had to focus, we did have to focus but I was like,
seriously, you can't come in,like because it stopped me dead
on my tracks, like I couldn'tfinish what I was doing as it
should have right, right.
So then, in my flip-flops Igrab a shovel and I start
digging these culverts andcovering them up so we can get
done quicker, so I can handlethe rat issue.
Even the kids are like man, mom, wow, you're really good at
(03:53):
this.
Well, I was motivated, I wasvery motivated, yeah you were.
Ben (03:58):
Yes, so we get done with the culverts and then I go in.
Liz (04:02):
You went in you came inside and by this time we've told the
kids because mom's got a bigblack trash bag.
Ben (04:08):
Yeah, we got the gloves, we got the mask on.
We're ready to take care ofthis Rat, this invader.
Liz (04:15):
This bedroom invader.
I mean, and I'm freaking out.
I'm thinking how the heck didit get in my house.
Is there another?
Ben (04:22):
one.
It's been in my bedroom.
Yeah Right, maybe it had babies.
Liz (04:24):
I hope not.
Ben (04:25):
Anyway.
So I get down there and I'm,you know, looking around, yep,
and I'm about to grab it, andthen I noticed I'm like you know
what, this thing looks a littletoo perfect and it kind of had
a little sheen to it that wasdifferent than like what you
would expect a rat fur to be,than like what you would expect
a rat fur to be.
And then it dawned on me, youknow, I had bought a rubber rat
(04:48):
and I couldn't remember where itwent.
So we found out where it went.
There it was, but unbeknownstto you.
I picked that thing up andchunked it right at you.
Liz (04:58):
He threw it.
He threw it at me, so Inaturally start.
I don't even know this piece,that it's not.
Ben (05:05):
You probably hit octaves that you hadn't.
I didn't even know.
Liz (05:08):
I could, and I'm screaming, I'm freaking out, freaking out.
Ben (05:15):
Yeah.
Liz (05:16):
Yeah.
Ben (05:17):
Yeah.
Liz (05:17):
But then it became a game.
How did it become a game?
Ben (05:20):
Oh yeah, so then the kids they saw all this go down Right,
they saw mom's reaction andthey saw dad laughing
hysterically, and so it became agame of hide the rat so mom can
find it again.
Liz (05:33):
And it wasn't just one day like I went into the cupboard to
get bowls and there's thatstupid ugly nasty thing, and
then I mean they were putting itin the shower under my pillow.
(05:55):
Why are you laughing?
Yeah, flashbacks, flashbacks.
It was terrible.
I mean even now, right now, Ican feel it up in my throat.
My shoulders are tense.
It was terrible the whole week.
I threw that thing away.
I was like, and that is goingin the trash.
I was done, so done.
I threw that thing away.
I was like, and that is goingin the trash.
I was done, so done.
I'm done.
Right now I don't even want totalk about it anymore.
Ben (06:10):
You think we might need some more therapy on this one.
Liz (06:11):
Well, maybe I don't know.
Ben (06:14):
But it kind of segues to our topic which is offense.
Yeah, this is kind of our rightto offense Yep and our right to
offense Yep.
And we came across this conceptof a right to offense by
reading this incredible book byour favorite author, who happens
to be Brant Hansen, and thebook is called Unaffendable and
(06:37):
some of the main topics behindthis book is your right to
offense.
It addresses that behind thisbook is your right to offense
and addresses that um and so oneof the things that we really
like about brandt is just hisuniqueness.
I mean, he is a really cool dude, but not cool in the like, I
guess, the ways you would expecthe's.
He's very unique because heactually has, uh, two
(07:01):
neurological conditions.
One he's on the spectrum andthe other is that his eyes don't
stay straight.
His eyes move back and forthall the time, right, and so to
compensate for that, he has tomove his head back and forth
pretty much all the time, yep,and so, on this topic of offense
and unoffendability, you know,he's kind of of having to dig
(07:24):
himself out of a hole becauseeverywhere and everyone he meets
, he's basically telling them no.
Liz (07:30):
All the time.
He's always shaking his head.
And why do we love him so much,Ben?
He's so real.
Ben (07:36):
And what do you always say?
Liz (07:37):
He's so funny, he's funny, but I have this saying about his
style and the way he writesit's like a spoonful of sugar
helps the medicine to go downbecause it's truth.
It cuts you to the heart, butit's written in humor and it's
bite sizes.
And I love the way he writesbecause you can listen to or
(08:00):
read one chapter and there's afinite end.
It's not like you have to getto the next chapter to try to
understand and unpack all ofwhat he's saying.
And the way it all flows ispretty brilliant.
Ben (08:09):
Lots of stories, lots of great stories.
How many?
Liz (08:11):
times have you read this book that we're talking about?
Ben (08:13):
right now, so I've read this book in one form or fashion
, mostly listened to through.
Audible but five times, atleast, at least five times.
Liz (08:22):
Yeah, and we've listened to it as a family on Audible twice
.
Ben (08:27):
Yeah, at least three, maybe three times, maybe three times
Possibly, possibly Because we goon long trips in the summer in
the car with kids.
Liz (08:33):
We're not always flying with six kids.
Ben (08:35):
No, no, pricey, pricey.
Liz (08:36):
Yeah, but anyway.
So the kids have listened to itand they and they love it.
Like when we stop to get gas,they're like hurry up, get in
the car we want to hear thispart.
Ben (08:44):
Play the book again, dad, yeah.
Liz (08:45):
Play the book again, dad, so it's a great book.
Ben (08:48):
It is a great book and we bought a case.
We did, yeah, and we bought acase of books.
We gave them all away.
(09:17):
Gave them all away, I think wemore than ever.
Yeah, that's true by PewResearch and they say, basically
, 62% say people being tooeasily offended by others.
What they say is a majorproblem in the country today.
So you know way more than themajority believe it's a problem,
believe that we're too easilyoffended.
Liz (09:39):
This is true, though this is just what people say not do.
Ben (09:41):
The question was are people being offended by what others
say as a problem, and the answeris yes.
I would imagine that numbergoes way up if you say what
about what people do?
So this is just what people aresaying, and I mean here's a
thought experiment.
If you aren't convinced aboutthat, maybe just go put
(10:03):
something just the slightest bitpolitical don't do it on your
social media account.
Liz (10:09):
Then go pop some popcorn don't do it sit down and just
wait for the hate comments tocome in okay, you so did that,
like years ago, when there wasan election that was going on.
Yes, and you just learned mylesson yeah you did.
You just put a few things outthere and then, um, do you
remember you would come skippingout of your office?
(10:30):
And I'm like, ben, what did youjust do?
And you're like, oh nothing,quickly go to social media.
I'm like, oh, I mean one of theposts, and it wasn't even bad
stuff, you guys, it was justlike you know around questions
or yeah, something that you'repointing out it wasn't even bad,
but but, but because of socialmedia, it's like everybody was
fired and charged.
Ben (10:52):
And so one of the posts.
Liz (10:53):
you got hundreds of comments.
Ben (10:54):
Yeah, it was a little cray cray, that's true, yeah, and I
think it just people feel likeit's you're right.
Liz (11:00):
Yeah.
Ben (11:01):
Be offended and voice that offense.
Liz (11:03):
Yep.
Ben (11:04):
And you know, being in a culture as believers like I,
feel like that just seeps in.
Liz (11:09):
And so.
Ben (11:10):
Brandt, like one of his big conclusions is just that you
have to give your right to beoffended up.
You know, like you don't, you'renot entitled to it.
I guess is what the point is.
And then, beyond that, he wouldsay you know, we, we've all
heard this.
Um, you know that there's suchthing as righteous anger, right,
all right, and and and.
(11:31):
Most people, I think, would saywell, you know, god gets angry,
so that's righteous anger.
But they use that example andthen they kind of apply it to
themselves Like, well, I havethe right to get angry because
it's righteous.
Liz (11:43):
Right.
Ben (11:44):
I mean, I've heard that.
Have you heard that?
Liz (11:45):
Maybe from myself.
Yes.
Ben (11:48):
I've heard that from you.
Liz (11:49):
I heard that from you.
Ben (11:50):
Well, yeah, hey, this is this blessed.
It's real life.
Liz (11:55):
This one blessed podcast.
Ben (11:56):
So hey we're messy.
We're a mess.
We're a mess, but you know,here's the point, right, I think
only God can claim righteousanger.
And the point is is because wearen a righteous cause and we
(12:19):
camp out and we harbor thatanger towards someone who maybe
be the perpetrator or the onethat's doing the offense.
we are just not good judges ofcharacter, because we don't have
all the details and we can calla spade a spade.
But to camp out and to stayoffended and to stay in anger, I
think is not a biblical way todo life.
And here's a great point.
(12:41):
If your righteous anger boilsup and starts to become
something that is more likebitterness, then it has a
propensity to start bringingdivision right and so I just
want to read a quick proverb,which is uh?
six proverbs 6, 16 through 19.
(13:03):
There are six things that thelord hates, seven that are an
abomination to him haughty eyes,a lying tongue and hands that
shed innocent blood, a heartthat devises wicked plans, feet
that make haste to run to evil,a false witness who breathes out
lives and one who sows discordamong brothers and so sometimes
(13:25):
that's intense yeah that'sintense.
Sometimes, referencing a numberfollowed by one more is kind of
like this common Hebrew literarypattern, and it implies that
the final item is like thesummary or the culmination of
the others.
And so here it's like theabomination is the discord
(13:46):
that's sown between brothers,and so when your righteous anger
produces that kind of discord,then maybe we ought to look at
how righteous it really is.
Liz (13:59):
Ooh, so intense.
Just a spoonful of sugar helpsthe medicine go down.
I mean really.
Ben (14:09):
I know so another.
Another one of his points is hesays get rid of anger, replace
it with gratitude and humility.
And he has this great storyabout that.
Guy's an idiot.
Oh yes, that's one of hischapter titles.
Liz (14:24):
Our kids think that chapter is hilarious.
Yeah, they get a really bigkick out of it.
It's a good chapter, yeah.
Ben (14:29):
But anyways, the premise is just that, like in the example
that he uses, is you know, he'sdriving to the gym one day and
some guy you know kind of cutshim off to get to a parking spot
.
He goes in real quick and he'slike man, that guy's an idiot,
you know, I was like here I was,I was coming up, I was trying
to get in that space and he justzoomed right in.
Well, wouldn't you know it, thenext day he's that guy.
(14:51):
He sees this open spot and hegoes in real quick and he looks
over.
He's like, oh man, that guy'san idiot.
And then he thinks to himselfwait a minute, I was that guy
yesterday.
You know that guy's always anidiot.
It's never I'm an idiot.
And then you know, that's kindof the conclusion.
It's like if you apply a littlehumility and gratitude in
situations like maybe we'llstart seeing it a little
(15:13):
different, you know, maybe we'llstart seeing it a little
different.
Maybe we'll start seeing thatsometimes maybe we're the idiot.
But yeah, replacing anger withgratitude and humility, man,
that's an intense one.
Another one of his conclusionsembrace forgiveness, even in the
Lord's Prayer, like it'ssomething we have to do on a
daily basis and it's somethingthat we do in order to be
(15:33):
forgiven, right?
Not that one precedes the other, it's a twofer, right?
Yes, it is, you got to receiveforgiveness and you got to give
it, but we just I mean,embracing forgiveness is kind of
counterculture as well.
And then a couple of thosepoints adjust expectations.
I mean, gosh, we're all human,we all have human nature, we're
(15:55):
all fallen Like, sometimes ourexpectations are just a little
too high.
We all need forgiveness.
And then, lastly, one of themain points that I got away, got
out of this book, was just,don't just condemn culture, but
instead think of ways that youcan redeem it.
And one example is like youdon't want to just be known for
(16:15):
what you're against, but youalso want to put that same
energy into being known for whatyou're for as well.
So anyways, those are some ofthe main highlights of the book.
Liz (16:24):
But there's so many good stories.
I mean, your dad's Bible studyhas been going through it.
Your dad's men's group yeah.
Ben (16:31):
Yeah, I mean he's you know.
So we shared with my father andhe's been sharing it with
everybody he knows and man, it'sjust it's had these like ripple
effects through these differentpeople.
One of my best friends has readit and you know he loves it,
and so it's just really anintrospective book.
Liz (16:47):
Yeah.
Ben (16:48):
And we feel like it would be great, be great, to read, but
read, but um, we also wanted tojust mention, too, that there's
also, uh, physiological effectswhen you harbor.
Liz (17:01):
This is true offense.
Ben (17:03):
Yes, then it can actually lead to more of that fight or
flight mode and that can causesome physiological changes.
In fact um, let's see who.
Who's this MD Karen Swartz,director of the Mood Disorders
at Johns Hopkins Hospital.
She's basically saying thatthere is an enormous physical
(17:25):
burden to being hurt anddisappointed and that it can
start to increase things likedepression heart disease,
diabetes, among other conditions.
And basically her conclusion islike forgiveness can actually
reverse those effects and startto calm down that fight or
flight response.
So I just don't think we'remade, even physically made, to
(17:48):
camp out in that offense posturefor very long.
Liz (17:51):
No.
Ben (17:52):
Yeah.
Liz (17:53):
Because if you do, it can make you sick or keep you sick.
Ben (17:55):
It can, and offense can lead to what the Bible calls a
bitter root, and that causes allkinds of problems.
Liz (18:02):
A lot of problems, yeah, and you want to get the bitter
roots out.
Ben (18:06):
Speaking of bitter roots, I'm thinking of a story.
Liz (18:08):
Oh no, you and your stories today we were early married, I
think a month in.
Oh, I know a story you'retalking about.
Ben (18:16):
You know which one.
Liz (18:16):
Oh, yes, I do.
Ben (18:17):
You want to set some context.
Liz (18:18):
Do we want to?
Ben (18:19):
I think we should.
Oh no, but you got the contextbecause I feel like this was
your prerogative for the startof the story, Right?
And then my offense,unfortunately at the end.
Liz (18:31):
So this is known as the furniture story.
So this is known as thefurniture story, and may or may
not have known this already, butBen got his degree in art and
so he's quite the designer, andeven when we were getting
married and designing our, hedid our wedding invitations.
He did a great job.
Ben (18:50):
And what was the deal that we did for the colors?
Liz (18:54):
Yes.
And so Ben came to me and hesaid we're gonna have two colors
.
Okay, you know, usually thebride picks the colors and all
those kind of things.
And he said, um, you pick yourcolor first and then I'll pick
mine after yours.
And so we got married inoctober.
So I thought, okay, burgundy,you know a fall wedding.
Ben (19:11):
It just sounds ridiculous.
Now, yeah, and he chose hiscolor, which was yeah, so you
did burgundy and I chose powder,pink Powdered pink because it
looked nice up against theburgundy designer here.
Some white and some silvermaybe, but yeah, like it was.
Liz (19:27):
It was beautiful Mostly burgundy and powder pink.
Yeah, and our wedding wasbeautiful.
I mean, it was beautiful All ofit but I didn't know that I was
going to marry a man that wouldhave a hand in so much.
And so, as a young bride andgetting ready to be married, I
was thinking about what our newapartment would look like and oh
, I can finally decorate, andall these kinds of things.
(19:49):
And so, after being married forabout a month, we went to a
furniture store.
Ben (19:54):
Well, what type of furniture store?
Liz (19:55):
Well, it was antique thrifting, which I like to have,
antiques and thrift a littlebit.
And Ben has a very differentideal of design and so he's
probably more Ikea, which I like.
Ikea too, right, butcontemporary versus comfy not as
(20:16):
antiquey no, so, uh, so, tothis day, being married for um
20 years, um two decades, westill.
Ben (20:25):
We've come to a happy compromise, but which is we
don't decorate, we don'tdecorate.
So it's actually true.
Liz (20:31):
That's the compromise and that's the compromise just to
keep the peace so it's, it'sinteresting, so anyway, so we're
in this furniture store.
I found like a nightstand orsomething like that and I wanted
him to come in there and see itand we get it and bring it back
.
And he didn't like it and itended up being like I was hurt
and offended and you were upsettoo, and before long Ben left.
Ben (20:56):
Oh yeah, I left without any furniture, but I got a whole
lot of offense.
Liz (21:01):
And without your wife, you left without me I did.
Ben (21:05):
I walked out of that store and I tried to walk home and it
was like 20 degrees outside.
Liz (21:12):
Yep Miles, miles away, miles away.
Ben (21:15):
I don't know if you had the key.
I guess you had the keys.
Liz (21:17):
I had the keys.
I guess you had the keys, I hadthe keys and you just walked.
Ben (21:20):
I just walked and I was so mad, I was so offended and, as
you can tell, my judgment waspretty much impaired at that
point.
Liz (21:28):
Oh absolutely.
Ben (21:30):
I'm walking down the highway, or the feeder road of
the highway 20 degree weatherand just mad as could be.
Liz (21:42):
Yep.
So he's walking down the feederroad next to the highway and
I'm like I get in the car andturn on the car in the heat and
I'm thinking what just happened?
Who is this man that I justmarried?
I said I do like a few weeksago.
So I hopped in the car and Iknew, I knew the direction of
home, so I drove and I saw himand I drove right past him.
I didn't even stop.
And then, after I drove pasthim, I kind of had some
(22:04):
compassion and I thought, ohgosh, he's walking in this
freezing cold because it's likeicy and snowy.
Ben (22:08):
Yeah.
Liz (22:08):
So then I turned around, went down the other feeder road,
came back up the same road thathe was walking, went past him
again and stopped at a Taco Bell, which still to this day.
When we see that Taco Bell,we're like oh we have some
history of that Taco Bell.
And so I called you.
I called you.
I was sitting in the Taco Belland I just said, hey, how are
(22:30):
you?
I'm like, are you cold?
Yes, yes, he was cold.
I said I'm like, are you cold?
Ben (22:34):
Yes.
Liz (22:34):
Yes, he was cold.
I said do you want me to driveyou home?
Ben (22:37):
Yes.
Liz (22:38):
Yes, and so he got in the car.
Well, we switched seats and youwere going to drive, You're
going to be the driver's seatand I'm like what happened?
Ben (22:47):
He's like I don't know.
It was a crazy cycle, is whathappened, yeah.
Liz (22:51):
The crazy cycle.
It was kind of like who's goingto jump off this crazy cycle
first?
Ben (22:54):
Yes, and neither one of us did so.
We wrote it pretty far.
But, man, I'll tell you what myoffense clouded, my judgment
for sure.
Liz (23:02):
Yeah, that's all I remember , that's okay.
Ben (23:03):
Yeah, it was silly.
Liz (23:04):
We figured it out Very silly.
We realized that this was goingto be a hot topic.
Ben (23:09):
We needed that book right then, and there Right then,
right then.
Liz (23:14):
But you know, that's definitely an experience and
yeah, you know and I'm thinkingof another one that might be a
good one to share when you wereworking at the marketing firm.
Ben (23:27):
Oh yeah, okay yeah, so maybe a story where I'm not the
bad guy, because this oneactually turned out pretty cool
and yeah, I'm going to makemyself the hero in my own story,
but it was really cool becauseit changed some of the outlook
and the outcome of the conflictthat was happening.
But so I'll just dive in.
Yeah, so I worked at amarketing firm and this was
(23:48):
before I jumped out on myentrepreneurial journey and
there was some conflict therewith the leadership of the firm.
The way that they wereinteracting with me and talking
to me and even cursing at me wasa little intense, yes, and it
got to the point where it wasvery hard just to kind of
(24:09):
maintain my composure.
Liz (24:11):
Yes, and I jumped on one email thread.
Ben (24:14):
Yeah, you did, yeah, and I was like, hey, pray for me.
This is kind of what's going on.
Liz (24:19):
Yeah, you saw it and I was like I don't even speak to my
husband this way, you cannotspeak to my husband this way.
But I was pregnant and awfullybold and tiny, but mighty.
Ben (24:29):
You might've even been offended too.
Liz (24:31):
I was so offended anyway.
So tell them what happened,cause this is actually a cool
story.
Ben (24:36):
Yeah.
So, um, you know, it was reallyhard.
I was, I was struggling with myemotions, trying to do the work
and and and not be offended andnot, you know, just be
completely emotional abouteverything that was going on,
and all of a sudden this thoughtcame to me.
It was like, hey, I should justgo wash the dishes.
Now we we worked in a verysmall office it was like, you
(24:57):
know, 12 people max, and so weall kind of had kitchen duties
and we would share whose turn itwas to wash dishes and stuff
like that.
And I remember that wasn't myturn at that time, but some of
the people that had just yelledat me and kind of gone off at me
had just had lunch and theirdishes were in the sink.
So I was like I'm just going toserve, and so I walked over,
(25:18):
started washing dishes and allof a sudden I kind of felt a
different perspective.
I felt compassion.
Liz (25:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Ben (25:29):
And I just started seeing the perpetrators as actually not
victims but I just I saw likein a different light had more
compassion.
Liz (25:39):
Yes.
Ben (25:39):
And it came out later on that one of them in particular
was going through a divorce, andso now I understand, you know,
some of the intensity that theyhad and some of just the
frustration, and I was just kindof, you know.
I was in the wrong place at thewrong time, kind of.
So yeah, I just I was able tojust kind of pray for them and I
(26:01):
felt my perspective shift and Iwas able to end that
relationship good on a good noteinstead of, just you know,
caving too soon and jumping ship.
Liz (26:11):
And getting angry and giving them a piece of your mind
.
Ben (26:13):
Yeah, that too.
Liz (26:14):
Yeah, you didn't do that, yeah, and I remember when you
came home from work that day andyou were like something's
changed in my heart and it wasinteresting, just that servant
you know that it broke thatoffense that you had and it was
like how can I bless thesepeople instead of how can I?
You know?
Ben (26:33):
wrong attitude that was one time where I chose to be
unoffendable.
I wish there's more that Icould pull back.
That's one of the only ones Iremember, unfortunately.
But, you got a great storythough.
Liz (26:44):
Okay.
Ben (26:52):
Do you remember the one where well, do you remember the
one where you asked forforgiveness when you might not
necessarily need it to?
Are you talking about thatevent?
Liz (26:57):
Yes, Okay, so real quick.
I was at an event we werevisiting and we had friends
there, and a mutual friend ofanother friend came up to me and
said hey yeah, lots of friendssaid, hey, this individual um, I
think could use some prayer.
Ben (27:12):
It was like a church service, yeah, kind of thing.
Liz (27:14):
And an event.
And so I was like, okay, I'll,I'll go and, and went and was
talking and trying to figure out, okay, what's going on, what's
happening here, and in theconversation, uh, basically came
out that this individual justdid not like me and oh, okay,
and kind of taken back.
But I asked, I said is thereanything that I've done to
(27:36):
offend you, Because I'm raisingkids and life is busy and all
the things and I miss stuff andtrying to be biblical here, Is
there anything I've done tooffend you that I could ask for
forgiveness for?
And the response was no, justyour personality, just you that
I could ask for forgiveness for.
And the response was no, justyour personality, just you.
I don't like you.
And I'm thinking, wow, okay, Ithink I even prayed.
Ben (27:59):
Oh no, you didn't I think I did.
Oh no.
Liz (28:01):
And so, which is fine, you know, but I, after that whole
thing, I do remember coming outinto the parking lot afterwards
because I didn't say anything toanybody, you know talking to
others and all that kind ofstuff, and and when we got in
the van to leave I was like thatwas a.
I just had a really crazyexperience and the the funny
thing is is I wasn't offendedlike my, I actually had
(28:22):
compassion and my heart washurting right you know, for that
individual but?
Ben (28:26):
but I think it's important to note.
You don't need to ask forforgiveness for who you are.
Liz (28:30):
No.
Ben (28:32):
But part of this, and part of what even Brandt says in the
book, is that you don't have tostay in relationship with people
who habitually offend you andabuse you.
We're not saying go lay downand be a doormat for anybody,
just to step on, just to bestepped on.
You can stand up for yourself.
You can stand up for yourself.
You can stand up for evensituations that are wrong.
Liz (28:52):
Right.
Ben (28:53):
But just not with offense.
Liz (28:55):
Well and two, there's the saying, that's find your tribe.
Ben (28:59):
Yeah.
Liz (29:00):
And go where you're celebrated, not criticized, and
I mean there's a time forconstructive criticism and I'm
all about that.
And if there's blind spots,like I'm always telling you or
asking you like, hey, help mesee my blind spots, because our
Holy Spirit shine a light on meyou know, help me because I can
(29:22):
only see so far.
Right, and we only know what weknow.
We only know what we know.
But what's cool is, even thoughthat situation happened, um, I
was in the process of likediscovering how God has made me,
and not apologizing for who Iam, which you know is that
positively, positivity bubbly.
Ben (29:38):
You know outgoing all the things I fell in love with Right
.
Liz (29:43):
Right, all those things that you fell in love with.
Right, and you know you guysmay have heard us speak about
this on another episode, but Ilove strength finders and one of
my top five strengths ispositivity.
Ben (29:53):
Yeah.
Liz (29:54):
And for people who don't have that strength, sometimes
it's like oh, you're just likePollyanna and you know-.
Ben (30:02):
Who's said that before?
Liz (30:03):
Well, that's what they say.
They say you can be likePollyanna Really, but yeah, yeah
it is.
And so the thing is, is thatit's like not apologizing, you
know, for just how God has mademe with my strengths and my
gifts and my calling, and so,yeah, I didn't apologize for
being me.
Ben (30:24):
Yeah, and I wasn't offended .
Liz (30:26):
I really wasn't.
I think I had more pity thananything else, but that is a
very awkward situation.
Ben (30:31):
Yeah, period, just slightly , just slightly.
Liz (30:33):
Very period Like so weird Period.
Ben (30:36):
Maybe even an offensive situation.
Yeah, I guess you could saythat too.
We've had at least a couple ofstories where we actually
weren't offended but actuallytried practicing some of what we
read in this book.
But some takeaways.
Let's go back to the scripturesreal quick.
(30:57):
So Ephesians 4, 31 through 32,get rid of all bitterness, rage
and anger, brawling and slander,along with every form of malice
.
Be kind and compassionate toone another, forgiving each
other just as in Christ Godforgave you.
So I mean, this is pretty clearGet rid of all bitterness, rage
and anger.
Liz (31:18):
I don't feel like you're allowed to hold on to it.
No, you're not, at least notfrom that scripture.
No, you're not supposed to hangon to it.
I like what it says in James 1,19 through 20,.
Everyone should be quick tolisten, slow to speak and slow
to become angry, because humananger does not produce the
righteousness that God desires.
Ben (31:38):
This is a very strong argument, that last part again.
Liz (31:40):
Well, I mean, does not produce the righteousness that
God desires.
Ben (31:44):
So, almost like our human righteous anger isn't really
righteous.
Liz (31:50):
No, not at all.
Filthy rags, guys.
Filthy rags Yikes, yikes.
Ben (31:55):
And what about this last one in Psalms 37, 8?
Refrain from anger and turnfrom wrath.
Do not fret, it leads only toevil.
I mean, I don't know if you canbe any more clear than that.
Refrain from anger.
It leads to evil.
I mean, I don't know if you canbe any more clear than that.
Refrain from anger, it leads toevil.
Liz (32:11):
Yeah, that's so intense.
When you're thinking about thatLike it will lead to evil, I
honestly like right now I justwant to get before the Lord and
say search my heart, give meclean hands and a pure heart.
Ben (32:22):
Show me where it is, and just as parents too, I mean.
Liz (32:25):
Yeah show me where it is, and you know, just as parents
too.
I mean, I feel like that is across that we bear.
Ben (32:33):
Because I didn't really realize.
Liz (32:34):
Yeah, living with teenagers I didn't realize, like when
they were little and things likethat and I've heard many
mothers say this I didn'trealize.
I had anger in my heart, youknow, until I had kids, you know
, because there's just thingsthat happen or offense, yeah,
you know.
You know, because there's justthings that happen, or a fence,
you know.
Ben (32:51):
So it's a daily process of him molding and making us, yeah,
yeah, shine your light on me,lord, please do.
Liz (32:54):
Please shock me now, right.
Ben (32:56):
Yeah, help me, jesus, help us, help us.
Liz (32:59):
Yeah, well, that's good.
Ben (33:00):
I feel like that was a good yeah, it was a good conclusion.
And you know it's messy andobviously we're looking for the
Lord in the middle of our messand one of those ways is just
him helping us to get rid of ouranger.
Yeah, yeah.
Liz (33:13):
You know, and so we just want to say thank you so much
for being a part of our oneblessed mess today.
Don't forget to subscribe orshare and send this on to a
friend or heart, or like or givethe thumbs up.
However, you're listening tothis because it really helps us,
and if there's somebody thatyou think could use the
encouragement today, buy themthe book that's right, but we
(33:36):
will.
In the show notes we will havethe link to Brant's book
Unaffendable.
It's pretty great and untilnext time just remember to
embrace your mess, because ifour mess can be blessed, so can
yours.
So can yours.
All right, welcome to our One Blessed Mess.
This is Ben and Liz, and we arehere with our story of having
six kids in eight years,managing our entrepreneurial
home with two businesses,homeschooling and currently
navigating life with not one,not two, not three, but four
teenagers, plus seven chickensand two dogs, just to keep it
(00:30):
interesting, yeah.
Ben (00:32):
You might have noticed a different number of chickens.
We had a little boo-boo happen.
Liz (00:39):
We did.
Oh, it's so sad.
We lost our favorite chickenyesterday.
Actually, she was Mama Jean.
Mama Jean, she took care of allof our baby chicks that we have
hatched from the incubator andthat's like a whole nother
episode that we'll have to talkabout that.
But we lost her and it happens.
It happens sometimes on thefarm.
Ben (01:01):
Yeah, it was sad.
We had a door malfunction andunfortunately a fox got a hold
of it.
Liz (01:08):
Yeah, that part's pretty sad and that does happen, and we
get critters on our property,you know.
Ben (01:13):
We do All kinds of critters Every now and then.
Sometimes we even get crittersinside our house too.
Liz (01:19):
Really Like when.
Ben (01:22):
Well, I'm thinking of a very specific example, in our
bedroom actually.
Liz (01:26):
Wait, you mean you, the animal in our bedroom?
No, I'm just kidding.
No, come on, I live there.
I mean, I know I'm an animaland all that, just kidding.
No, I'm thinking of the animal.
Ben (01:38):
Well, I guess, yeah, the animal that you found behind.
Liz (01:43):
Oh, okay, I know what story you're talking about.
Okay, we should share this.
This is actually a very funnystory, so I'll give the
backstory to it.
I guess we have a graveldriveway.
Yeah Right, gravel driveway,okay, and we get a lot of rain
where we live, and so Ben neededto put in culverts because the
(02:04):
rocks were.
We got new rock and it wasgoing away, so he and the kids
were on a mission to get the newculverts in the ground.
While they were outside doingthat, I was inside deep cleaning
our bedroom I'm talkingbaseboards and taking everything
off shelves and everything.
I was just full on cleaning ourbedroom and I was behind this
one particular bookshelf, likein the corner, and as I was
(02:27):
getting all the books off of thebookshelf, I looked behind to
see if anything's ever fallenback there.
And lo and behold, what did youfind?
Ben (02:35):
What did you find I?
Liz (02:36):
found this blob that look.
It looked like a rat.
That's what it looked like arat.
Ben (02:43):
What color was it?
Liz (02:43):
It was black.
I mean it was dark behind thebookshelf because the way the
lights were hitting it.
So, of course.
I mean, I felt it in my throat,I felt it in my stomach and so
I quickly went outside in myflip-flops and this is an
important detail about theseflip-flops.
So I ran outside real quick toget Ben, but I gently whispered
it to you because I didn't wantthe kids to be distracted.
Ben (03:05):
Right, right, right, right and you know, tried to hold.
Liz (03:08):
yeah, try to keep the peace trying to keep the peace and
also for them to not you know,no, because then it would be a
big.
Oh, it'd be a big distraction.
Ben (03:16):
Yeah, that would have been bye-bye, culvert time and hello
rat hunt, that's right, right.
Liz (03:27):
So I I tell ben and you say , well, I can't go in there
right now and take care of it.
Ben (03:29):
I've got to get these culverts.
Yeah, the sun was setting, sowe had to.
Liz (03:31):
We had to focus, we did have to focus but I was like,
seriously, you can't come in,like because it stopped me dead
on my tracks, like I couldn'tfinish what I was doing as it
should have right, right.
So then, in my flip-flops Igrab a shovel and I start
digging these culverts andcovering them up so we can get
done quicker, so I can handlethe rat issue.
Even the kids are like man, mom, wow, you're really good at
(03:53):
this.
Well, I was motivated, I wasvery motivated, yeah you were.
Ben (03:58):
Yes, so we get done with the culverts and then I go in.
Liz (04:02):
You went in you came inside and by this time we've told the
kids because mom's got a bigblack trash bag.
Ben (04:08):
Yeah, we got the gloves, we got the mask on.
We're ready to take care ofthis Rat, this invader.
Liz (04:15):
This bedroom invader.
I mean, and I'm freaking out.
I'm thinking how the heck didit get in my house.
Is there another?
Ben (04:22):
one.
It's been in my bedroom.
Yeah Right, maybe it had babies.
Liz (04:24):
I hope not.
Ben (04:25):
Anyway.
So I get down there and I'm,you know, looking around, yep,
and I'm about to grab it, andthen I noticed I'm like you know
what, this thing looks a littletoo perfect and it kind of had
a little sheen to it that wasdifferent than like what you
would expect a rat fur to be,than like what you would expect
a rat fur to be.
And then it dawned on me, youknow, I had bought a rubber rat
(04:48):
and I couldn't remember where itwent.
So we found out where it went.
There it was, but unbeknownstto you.
I picked that thing up andchunked it right at you.
Liz (04:58):
He threw it.
He threw it at me, so Inaturally start.
I don't even know this piece,that it's not.
Ben (05:05):
You probably hit octaves that you hadn't.
I didn't even know.
Liz (05:08):
I could, and I'm screaming, I'm freaking out, freaking out.
Ben (05:15):
Yeah.
Liz (05:16):
Yeah.
Ben (05:17):
Yeah.
Liz (05:17):
But then it became a game.
How did it become a game?
Ben (05:20):
Oh yeah, so then the kids they saw all this go down Right,
they saw mom's reaction andthey saw dad laughing
hysterically, and so it became agame of hide the rat so mom can
find it again.
Liz (05:33):
And it wasn't just one day like I went into the cupboard to
get bowls and there's thatstupid ugly nasty thing, and
then I mean they were putting itin the shower under my pillow.
(05:55):
Why are you laughing?
Yeah, flashbacks, flashbacks.
It was terrible.
I mean even now, right now, Ican feel it up in my throat.
My shoulders are tense.
It was terrible the whole week.
I threw that thing away.
I was like, and that is goingin the trash.
I was done, so done.
I threw that thing away.
I was like, and that is goingin the trash.
I was done, so done.
I'm done.
Right now I don't even want totalk about it anymore.
Ben (06:10):
You think we might need some more therapy on this one.
Liz (06:11):
Well, maybe I don't know.
Ben (06:14):
But it kind of segues to our topic which is offense.
Yeah, this is kind of our rightto offense Yep and our right to
offense Yep.
And we came across this conceptof a right to offense by
reading this incredible book byour favorite author, who happens
to be Brant Hansen, and thebook is called Unaffendable and
(06:37):
some of the main topics behindthis book is your right to
offense.
It addresses that behind thisbook is your right to offense
and addresses that um and so oneof the things that we really
like about brandt is just hisuniqueness.
I mean, he is a really cool dude, but not cool in the like, I
guess, the ways you would expecthe's.
He's very unique because heactually has, uh, two
(07:01):
neurological conditions.
One he's on the spectrum andthe other is that his eyes don't
stay straight.
His eyes move back and forthall the time, right, and so to
compensate for that, he has tomove his head back and forth
pretty much all the time, yep,and so, on this topic of offense
and unoffendability, you know,he's kind of of having to dig
(07:24):
himself out of a hole becauseeverywhere and everyone he meets
, he's basically telling them no.
Liz (07:30):
All the time.
He's always shaking his head.
And why do we love him so much,Ben?
He's so real.
Ben (07:36):
And what do you always say?
Liz (07:37):
He's so funny, he's funny, but I have this saying about his
style and the way he writesit's like a spoonful of sugar
helps the medicine to go downbecause it's truth.
It cuts you to the heart, butit's written in humor and it's
bite sizes.
And I love the way he writesbecause you can listen to or
(08:00):
read one chapter and there's afinite end.
It's not like you have to getto the next chapter to try to
understand and unpack all ofwhat he's saying.
And the way it all flows ispretty brilliant.
Ben (08:09):
Lots of stories, lots of great stories.
How many?
Liz (08:11):
times have you read this book that we're talking about?
Ben (08:13):
right now, so I've read this book in one form or fashion
, mostly listened to through.
Audible but five times, atleast, at least five times.
Liz (08:22):
Yeah, and we've listened to it as a family on Audible twice
.
Ben (08:27):
Yeah, at least three, maybe three times, maybe three times
Possibly, possibly Because we goon long trips in the summer in
the car with kids.
Liz (08:33):
We're not always flying with six kids.
Ben (08:35):
No, no, pricey, pricey.
Liz (08:36):
Yeah, but anyway.
So the kids have listened to itand they and they love it.
Like when we stop to get gas,they're like hurry up, get in
the car we want to hear thispart.
Ben (08:44):
Play the book again, dad, yeah.
Liz (08:45):
Play the book again, dad, so it's a great book.
Ben (08:48):
It is a great book and we bought a case.
We did, yeah, and we bought acase of books.
We gave them all away.
(09:17):
Gave them all away, I think wemore than ever.
Yeah, that's true by PewResearch and they say, basically
, 62% say people being tooeasily offended by others.
What they say is a majorproblem in the country today.
So you know way more than themajority believe it's a problem,
believe that we're too easilyoffended.
Liz (09:39):
This is true, though this is just what people say not do.
Ben (09:41):
The question was are people being offended by what others
say as a problem, and the answeris yes.
I would imagine that numbergoes way up if you say what
about what people do?
So this is just what people aresaying, and I mean here's a
thought experiment.
If you aren't convinced aboutthat, maybe just go put
(10:03):
something just the slightest bitpolitical don't do it on your
social media account.
Liz (10:09):
Then go pop some popcorn don't do it sit down and just
wait for the hate comments tocome in okay, you so did that,
like years ago, when there wasan election that was going on.
Yes, and you just learned mylesson yeah you did.
You just put a few things outthere and then, um, do you
remember you would come skippingout of your office?
(10:30):
And I'm like, ben, what did youjust do?
And you're like, oh nothing,quickly go to social media.
I'm like, oh, I mean one of theposts, and it wasn't even bad
stuff, you guys, it was justlike you know around questions
or yeah, something that you'repointing out it wasn't even bad,
but but, but because of socialmedia, it's like everybody was
fired and charged.
Ben (10:52):
And so one of the posts.
Liz (10:53):
you got hundreds of comments.
Ben (10:54):
Yeah, it was a little cray cray, that's true, yeah, and I
think it just people feel likeit's you're right.
Liz (11:00):
Yeah.
Ben (11:01):
Be offended and voice that offense.
Liz (11:03):
Yep.
Ben (11:04):
And you know, being in a culture as believers like I,
feel like that just seeps in.
Liz (11:09):
And so.
Ben (11:10):
Brandt, like one of his big conclusions is just that you
have to give your right to beoffended up.
You know, like you don't, you'renot entitled to it.
I guess is what the point is.
And then, beyond that, he wouldsay you know, we, we've all
heard this.
Um, you know that there's suchthing as righteous anger, right,
all right, and and and.
(11:31):
Most people, I think, would saywell, you know, god gets angry,
so that's righteous anger.
But they use that example andthen they kind of apply it to
themselves Like, well, I havethe right to get angry because
it's righteous.
Liz (11:43):
Right.
Ben (11:44):
I mean, I've heard that.
Have you heard that?
Liz (11:45):
Maybe from myself.
Yes.
Ben (11:48):
I've heard that from you.
Liz (11:49):
I heard that from you.
Ben (11:50):
Well, yeah, hey, this is this blessed.
It's real life.
Liz (11:55):
This one blessed podcast.
Ben (11:56):
So hey we're messy.
We're a mess.
We're a mess, but you know,here's the point, right, I think
only God can claim righteousanger.
And the point is is because wearen a righteous cause and we
(12:19):
camp out and we harbor thatanger towards someone who maybe
be the perpetrator or the onethat's doing the offense.
we are just not good judges ofcharacter, because we don't have
all the details and we can calla spade a spade.
But to camp out and to stayoffended and to stay in anger, I
think is not a biblical way todo life.
And here's a great point.
(12:41):
If your righteous anger boilsup and starts to become
something that is more likebitterness, then it has a
propensity to start bringingdivision right and so I just
want to read a quick proverb,which is uh?
six proverbs 6, 16 through 19.
(13:03):
There are six things that thelord hates, seven that are an
abomination to him haughty eyes,a lying tongue and hands that
shed innocent blood, a heartthat devises wicked plans, feet
that make haste to run to evil,a false witness who breathes out
lives and one who sows discordamong brothers and so sometimes
(13:25):
that's intense yeah that'sintense.
Sometimes, referencing a numberfollowed by one more is kind of
like this common Hebrew literarypattern, and it implies that
the final item is like thesummary or the culmination of
the others.
And so here it's like theabomination is the discord
(13:46):
that's sown between brothers,and so when your righteous anger
produces that kind of discord,then maybe we ought to look at
how righteous it really is.
Liz (13:59):
Ooh, so intense.
Just a spoonful of sugar helpsthe medicine go down.
I mean really.
Ben (14:09):
I know so another.
Another one of his points is hesays get rid of anger, replace
it with gratitude and humility.
And he has this great storyabout that.
Guy's an idiot.
Oh yes, that's one of hischapter titles.
Liz (14:24):
Our kids think that chapter is hilarious.
Yeah, they get a really bigkick out of it.
It's a good chapter, yeah.
Ben (14:29):
But anyways, the premise is just that, like in the example
that he uses, is you know, he'sdriving to the gym one day and
some guy you know kind of cutshim off to get to a parking spot
.
He goes in real quick and he'slike man, that guy's an idiot,
you know, I was like here I was,I was coming up, I was trying
to get in that space and he justzoomed right in.
Well, wouldn't you know it, thenext day he's that guy.
(14:51):
He sees this open spot and hegoes in real quick and he looks
over.
He's like, oh man, that guy'san idiot.
And then he thinks to himselfwait a minute, I was that guy
yesterday.
You know that guy's always anidiot.
It's never I'm an idiot.
And then you know, that's kindof the conclusion.
It's like if you apply a littlehumility and gratitude in
situations like maybe we'llstart seeing it a little
(15:13):
different, you know, maybe we'llstart seeing it a little
different.
Maybe we'll start seeing thatsometimes maybe we're the idiot.
But yeah, replacing anger withgratitude and humility, man,
that's an intense one.
Another one of his conclusionsembrace forgiveness, even in the
Lord's Prayer, like it'ssomething we have to do on a
daily basis and it's somethingthat we do in order to be
(15:33):
forgiven, right?
Not that one precedes the other, it's a twofer, right?
Yes, it is, you got to receiveforgiveness and you got to give
it, but we just I mean,embracing forgiveness is kind of
counterculture as well.
And then a couple of thosepoints adjust expectations.
I mean, gosh, we're all human,we all have human nature, we're
(15:55):
all fallen Like, sometimes ourexpectations are just a little
too high.
We all need forgiveness.
And then, lastly, one of themain points that I got away, got
out of this book, was just,don't just condemn culture, but
instead think of ways that youcan redeem it.
And one example is like youdon't want to just be known for
(16:15):
what you're against, but youalso want to put that same
energy into being known for whatyou're for as well.
So anyways, those are some ofthe main highlights of the book.
Liz (16:24):
But there's so many good stories.
I mean, your dad's Bible studyhas been going through it.
Your dad's men's group yeah.
Ben (16:31):
Yeah, I mean he's you know.
So we shared with my father andhe's been sharing it with
everybody he knows and man, it'sjust it's had these like ripple
effects through these differentpeople.
One of my best friends has readit and you know he loves it,
and so it's just really anintrospective book.
Liz (16:47):
Yeah.
Ben (16:48):
And we feel like it would be great, be great, to read, but
read, but um, we also wanted tojust mention, too, that there's
also, uh, physiological effectswhen you harbor.
Liz (17:01):
This is true offense.
Ben (17:03):
Yes, then it can actually lead to more of that fight or
flight mode and that can causesome physiological changes.
In fact um, let's see who.
Who's this MD Karen Swartz,director of the Mood Disorders
at Johns Hopkins Hospital.
She's basically saying thatthere is an enormous physical
(17:25):
burden to being hurt anddisappointed and that it can
start to increase things likedepression heart disease,
diabetes, among other conditions.
And basically her conclusion islike forgiveness can actually
reverse those effects and startto calm down that fight or
flight response.
So I just don't think we'remade, even physically made, to
(17:48):
camp out in that offense posturefor very long.
Liz (17:51):
No.
Ben (17:52):
Yeah.
Liz (17:53):
Because if you do, it can make you sick or keep you sick.
Ben (17:55):
It can, and offense can lead to what the Bible calls a
bitter root, and that causes allkinds of problems.
Liz (18:02):
A lot of problems, yeah, and you want to get the bitter
roots out.
Ben (18:06):
Speaking of bitter roots, I'm thinking of a story.
Liz (18:08):
Oh no, you and your stories today we were early married, I
think a month in.
Oh, I know a story you'retalking about.
Ben (18:16):
You know which one.
Liz (18:16):
Oh, yes, I do.
Ben (18:17):
You want to set some context.
Liz (18:18):
Do we want to?
Ben (18:19):
I think we should.
Oh no, but you got the contextbecause I feel like this was
your prerogative for the startof the story, Right?
And then my offense,unfortunately at the end.
Liz (18:31):
So this is known as the furniture story.
So this is known as thefurniture story, and may or may
not have known this already, butBen got his degree in art and
so he's quite the designer, andeven when we were getting
married and designing our, hedid our wedding invitations.
He did a great job.
Ben (18:50):
And what was the deal that we did for the colors?
Liz (18:54):
Yes.
And so Ben came to me and hesaid we're gonna have two colors
.
Okay, you know, usually thebride picks the colors and all
those kind of things.
And he said, um, you pick yourcolor first and then I'll pick
mine after yours.
And so we got married inoctober.
So I thought, okay, burgundy,you know a fall wedding.
Ben (19:11):
It just sounds ridiculous.
Now, yeah, and he chose hiscolor, which was yeah, so you
did burgundy and I chose powder,pink Powdered pink because it
looked nice up against theburgundy designer here.
Some white and some silvermaybe, but yeah, like it was.
Liz (19:27):
It was beautiful Mostly burgundy and powder pink.
Yeah, and our wedding wasbeautiful.
I mean, it was beautiful All ofit but I didn't know that I was
going to marry a man that wouldhave a hand in so much.
And so, as a young bride andgetting ready to be married, I
was thinking about what our newapartment would look like and oh
, I can finally decorate, andall these kinds of things.
(19:49):
And so, after being married forabout a month, we went to a
furniture store.
Ben (19:54):
Well, what type of furniture store?
Liz (19:55):
Well, it was antique thrifting, which I like to have,
antiques and thrift a littlebit.
And Ben has a very differentideal of design and so he's
probably more Ikea, which I like.
Ikea too, right, butcontemporary versus comfy not as
(20:16):
antiquey no, so, uh, so, tothis day, being married for um
20 years, um two decades, westill.
Ben (20:25):
We've come to a happy compromise, but which is we
don't decorate, we don'tdecorate.
So it's actually true.
Liz (20:31):
That's the compromise and that's the compromise just to
keep the peace so it's, it'sinteresting, so anyway, so we're
in this furniture store.
I found like a nightstand orsomething like that and I wanted
him to come in there and see itand we get it and bring it back
.
And he didn't like it and itended up being like I was hurt
and offended and you were upsettoo, and before long Ben left.
Ben (20:56):
Oh yeah, I left without any furniture, but I got a whole
lot of offense.
Liz (21:01):
And without your wife, you left without me I did.
Ben (21:05):
I walked out of that store and I tried to walk home and it
was like 20 degrees outside.
Liz (21:12):
Yep Miles, miles away, miles away.
Ben (21:15):
I don't know if you had the key.
I guess you had the keys.
Liz (21:17):
I had the keys.
I guess you had the keys, I hadthe keys and you just walked.
Ben (21:20):
I just walked and I was so mad, I was so offended and, as
you can tell, my judgment waspretty much impaired at that
point.
Liz (21:28):
Oh absolutely.
Ben (21:30):
I'm walking down the highway, or the feeder road of
the highway 20 degree weatherand just mad as could be.
Liz (21:42):
Yep.
So he's walking down the feederroad next to the highway and
I'm like I get in the car andturn on the car in the heat and
I'm thinking what just happened?
Who is this man that I justmarried?
I said I do like a few weeksago.
So I hopped in the car and Iknew, I knew the direction of
home, so I drove and I saw himand I drove right past him.
I didn't even stop.
And then, after I drove pasthim, I kind of had some
(22:04):
compassion and I thought, ohgosh, he's walking in this
freezing cold because it's likeicy and snowy.
Ben (22:08):
Yeah.
Liz (22:08):
So then I turned around, went down the other feeder road,
came back up the same road thathe was walking, went past him
again and stopped at a Taco Bell, which still to this day.
When we see that Taco Bell,we're like oh we have some
history of that Taco Bell.
And so I called you.
I called you.
I was sitting in the Taco Belland I just said, hey, how are
(22:30):
you?
I'm like, are you cold?
Yes, yes, he was cold.
I said I'm like, are you cold?
Ben (22:34):
Yes.
Liz (22:34):
Yes, he was cold.
I said do you want me to driveyou home?
Ben (22:37):
Yes.
Liz (22:38):
Yes, and so he got in the car.
Well, we switched seats and youwere going to drive, You're
going to be the driver's seatand I'm like what happened?
Ben (22:47):
He's like I don't know.
It was a crazy cycle, is whathappened, yeah.
Liz (22:51):
The crazy cycle.
It was kind of like who's goingto jump off this crazy cycle
first?
Ben (22:54):
Yes, and neither one of us did so.
We wrote it pretty far.
But, man, I'll tell you what myoffense clouded, my judgment
for sure.
Liz (23:02):
Yeah, that's all I remember , that's okay.
Ben (23:03):
Yeah, it was silly.
Liz (23:04):
We figured it out Very silly.
We realized that this was goingto be a hot topic.
Ben (23:09):
We needed that book right then, and there Right then,
right then.
Liz (23:14):
But you know, that's definitely an experience and
yeah, you know and I'm thinkingof another one that might be a
good one to share when you wereworking at the marketing firm.
Ben (23:27):
Oh yeah, okay yeah, so maybe a story where I'm not the
bad guy, because this oneactually turned out pretty cool
and yeah, I'm going to makemyself the hero in my own story,
but it was really cool becauseit changed some of the outlook
and the outcome of the conflictthat was happening.
But so I'll just dive in.
Yeah, so I worked at amarketing firm and this was
(23:48):
before I jumped out on myentrepreneurial journey and
there was some conflict therewith the leadership of the firm.
The way that they wereinteracting with me and talking
to me and even cursing at me wasa little intense, yes, and it
got to the point where it wasvery hard just to kind of
(24:09):
maintain my composure.
Liz (24:11):
Yes, and I jumped on one email thread.
Ben (24:14):
Yeah, you did, yeah, and I was like, hey, pray for me.
This is kind of what's going on.
Liz (24:19):
Yeah, you saw it and I was like I don't even speak to my
husband this way, you cannotspeak to my husband this way.
But I was pregnant and awfullybold and tiny, but mighty.
Ben (24:29):
You might've even been offended too.
Liz (24:31):
I was so offended anyway.
So tell them what happened,cause this is actually a cool
story.
Ben (24:36):
Yeah.
So, um, you know, it was reallyhard.
I was, I was struggling with myemotions, trying to do the work
and and and not be offended andnot, you know, just be
completely emotional abouteverything that was going on,
and all of a sudden this thoughtcame to me.
It was like, hey, I should justgo wash the dishes.
Now we we worked in a verysmall office it was like, you
(24:57):
know, 12 people max, and so weall kind of had kitchen duties
and we would share whose turn itwas to wash dishes and stuff
like that.
And I remember that wasn't myturn at that time, but some of
the people that had just yelledat me and kind of gone off at me
had just had lunch and theirdishes were in the sink.
So I was like I'm just going toserve, and so I walked over,
(25:18):
started washing dishes and allof a sudden I kind of felt a
different perspective.
I felt compassion.
Liz (25:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Ben (25:29):
And I just started seeing the perpetrators as actually not
victims but I just I saw likein a different light had more
compassion.
Liz (25:39):
Yes.
Ben (25:39):
And it came out later on that one of them in particular
was going through a divorce, andso now I understand, you know,
some of the intensity that theyhad and some of just the
frustration, and I was just kindof, you know.
I was in the wrong place at thewrong time, kind of.
So yeah, I just I was able tojust kind of pray for them and I
(26:01):
felt my perspective shift and Iwas able to end that
relationship good on a good noteinstead of, just you know,
caving too soon and jumping ship.
Liz (26:11):
And getting angry and giving them a piece of your mind
.
Ben (26:13):
Yeah, that too.
Liz (26:14):
Yeah, you didn't do that, yeah, and I remember when you
came home from work that day andyou were like something's
changed in my heart and it wasinteresting, just that servant
you know that it broke thatoffense that you had and it was
like how can I bless thesepeople instead of how can I?
You know?
Ben (26:33):
wrong attitude that was one time where I chose to be
unoffendable.
I wish there's more that Icould pull back.
That's one of the only ones Iremember, unfortunately.
But, you got a great storythough.
Liz (26:44):
Okay.
Ben (26:52):
Do you remember the one where well, do you remember the
one where you asked forforgiveness when you might not
necessarily need it to?
Are you talking about thatevent?
Liz (26:57):
Yes, Okay, so real quick.
I was at an event we werevisiting and we had friends
there, and a mutual friend ofanother friend came up to me and
said hey yeah, lots of friendssaid, hey, this individual um, I
think could use some prayer.
Ben (27:12):
It was like a church service, yeah, kind of thing.
Liz (27:14):
And an event.
And so I was like, okay, I'll,I'll go and, and went and was
talking and trying to figure out, okay, what's going on, what's
happening here, and in theconversation, uh, basically came
out that this individual justdid not like me and oh, okay,
and kind of taken back.
But I asked, I said is thereanything that I've done to
(27:36):
offend you, Because I'm raisingkids and life is busy and all
the things and I miss stuff andtrying to be biblical here, Is
there anything I've done tooffend you that I could ask for
forgiveness for?
And the response was no, justyour personality, just you that
I could ask for forgiveness for.
And the response was no, justyour personality, just you.
I don't like you.
And I'm thinking, wow, okay, Ithink I even prayed.
Ben (27:59):
Oh no, you didn't I think I did.
Oh no.
Liz (28:01):
And so, which is fine, you know, but I, after that whole
thing, I do remember coming outinto the parking lot afterwards
because I didn't say anything toanybody, you know talking to
others and all that kind ofstuff, and and when we got in
the van to leave I was like thatwas a.
I just had a really crazyexperience and the the funny
thing is is I wasn't offendedlike my, I actually had
(28:22):
compassion and my heart washurting right you know, for that
individual but?
Ben (28:26):
but I think it's important to note.
You don't need to ask forforgiveness for who you are.
Liz (28:30):
No.
Ben (28:32):
But part of this, and part of what even Brandt says in the
book, is that you don't have tostay in relationship with people
who habitually offend you andabuse you.
We're not saying go lay downand be a doormat for anybody,
just to step on, just to bestepped on.
You can stand up for yourself.
You can stand up for yourself.
You can stand up for evensituations that are wrong.
Liz (28:52):
Right.
Ben (28:53):
But just not with offense.
Liz (28:55):
Well and two, there's the saying, that's find your tribe.
Ben (28:59):
Yeah.
Liz (29:00):
And go where you're celebrated, not criticized, and
I mean there's a time forconstructive criticism and I'm
all about that.
And if there's blind spots,like I'm always telling you or
asking you like, hey, help mesee my blind spots, because our
Holy Spirit shine a light on meyou know, help me because I can
(29:22):
only see so far.
Right, and we only know what weknow.
We only know what we know.
But what's cool is, even thoughthat situation happened, um, I
was in the process of likediscovering how God has made me,
and not apologizing for who Iam, which you know is that
positively, positivity bubbly.
Ben (29:38):
You know outgoing all the things I fell in love with Right
.
Liz (29:43):
Right, all those things that you fell in love with.
Right, and you know you guysmay have heard us speak about
this on another episode, but Ilove strength finders and one of
my top five strengths ispositivity.
Ben (29:53):
Yeah.
Liz (29:54):
And for people who don't have that strength, sometimes
it's like oh, you're just likePollyanna and you know-.
Ben (30:02):
Who's said that before?
Liz (30:03):
Well, that's what they say.
They say you can be likePollyanna Really, but yeah, yeah
it is.
And so the thing is, is thatit's like not apologizing, you
know, for just how God has mademe with my strengths and my
gifts and my calling, and so,yeah, I didn't apologize for
being me.
Ben (30:24):
Yeah, and I wasn't offended .
Liz (30:26):
I really wasn't.
I think I had more pity thananything else, but that is a
very awkward situation.
Ben (30:31):
Yeah, period, just slightly , just slightly.
Liz (30:33):
Very period Like so weird Period.
Ben (30:36):
Maybe even an offensive situation.
Yeah, I guess you could saythat too.
We've had at least a couple ofstories where we actually
weren't offended but actuallytried practicing some of what we
read in this book.
But some takeaways.
Let's go back to the scripturesreal quick.
(30:57):
So Ephesians 4, 31 through 32,get rid of all bitterness, rage
and anger, brawling and slander,along with every form of malice
.
Be kind and compassionate toone another, forgiving each
other just as in Christ Godforgave you.
So I mean, this is pretty clearGet rid of all bitterness, rage
and anger.
Liz (31:18):
I don't feel like you're allowed to hold on to it.
No, you're not, at least notfrom that scripture.
No, you're not supposed to hangon to it.
I like what it says in James 1,19 through 20,.
Everyone should be quick tolisten, slow to speak and slow
to become angry, because humananger does not produce the
righteousness that God desires.
Ben (31:38):
This is a very strong argument, that last part again.
Liz (31:40):
Well, I mean, does not produce the righteousness that
God desires.
Ben (31:44):
So, almost like our human righteous anger isn't really
righteous.
Liz (31:50):
No, not at all.
Filthy rags, guys.
Filthy rags Yikes, yikes.
Ben (31:55):
And what about this last one in Psalms 37, 8?
Refrain from anger and turnfrom wrath.
Do not fret, it leads only toevil.
I mean, I don't know if you canbe any more clear than that.
Refrain from anger.
It leads to evil.
I mean, I don't know if you canbe any more clear than that.
Refrain from anger, it leads toevil.
Liz (32:11):
Yeah, that's so intense.
When you're thinking about thatLike it will lead to evil, I
honestly like right now I justwant to get before the Lord and
say search my heart, give meclean hands and a pure heart.
Ben (32:22):
Show me where it is, and just as parents too, I mean.
Liz (32:25):
Yeah show me where it is, and you know, just as parents
too.
I mean, I feel like that is across that we bear.
Ben (32:33):
Because I didn't really realize.
Liz (32:34):
Yeah, living with teenagers I didn't realize, like when
they were little and things likethat and I've heard many
mothers say this I didn'trealize.
I had anger in my heart, youknow, until I had kids, you know
, because there's just thingsthat happen or offense, yeah,
you know.
You know, because there's justthings that happen, or a fence,
you know.
Ben (32:51):
So it's a daily process of him molding and making us, yeah,
yeah, shine your light on me,lord, please do.
Liz (32:54):
Please shock me now, right.
Ben (32:56):
Yeah, help me, jesus, help us, help us.
Liz (32:59):
Yeah, well, that's good.
Ben (33:00):
I feel like that was a good yeah, it was a good conclusion.
And you know it's messy andobviously we're looking for the
Lord in the middle of our messand one of those ways is just
him helping us to get rid of ouranger.
Yeah, yeah.
Liz (33:13):
You know, and so we just want to say thank you so much
for being a part of our oneblessed mess today.
Don't forget to subscribe orshare and send this on to a
friend or heart, or like or givethe thumbs up.
However, you're listening tothis because it really helps us,
and if there's somebody thatyou think could use the
encouragement today, buy themthe book that's right, but we
(33:36):
will.
In the show notes we will havethe link to Brant's book
Unaffendable.
It's pretty great and untilnext time just remember to
embrace your mess, because ifour mess can be blessed, so can
yours.
So can yours.
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