033 - Building Resilience and Unity from Grief's Shadow - Tony Lynch - Our Dead Dads

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello and welcome to Our Dead Dads, the podcast where
we normalize talking aboutgrief, trauma, loss and moving
forward.
I'm your host.
My name is Nick Gaylord.
Thank you so much for listeningand making this show part of
your day.
Thank you for continuing tosupport the show and, if you
haven't already, pleasesubscribe and follow the podcast
on Apple Podcasts or whateverplatform you're listening on
right now, and do that so thatyou don't ever miss any episodes

(00:25):
.
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Scroll down on the homepage andyou will see a step-by-step
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You can also follow the show onour social media pages on
TikTok, facebook and Instagram,and please keep spreading the
word about the show.
We dive deep into stories ofgrief, trauma and loss, and this
is to give everyone who has astory to share the chance to do

(00:48):
so.
And, equally as important,we're looking for everyone who
has a story and either hasn'tbegun processing their grief or
doesn't know how to begin.
Okay, we have a lot to get intotoday.
Before we start today'sinterview, there are some huge
breaking news to share with you.
New year, new merch.
That, that's right.
We finally have the merch storeopen.
Men's t-shirts, ladies t-shirts, sweatshirts, hoodies, baseball
hats, boat hats, mugs, rocks,glasses, shot glasses, tumblers

(01:11):
and travel mugs.
So much merch.
The store is fully stocked, soget over to ourdeaddadscom, look
for the yellow merch button inthe upper right hand corner and
head over to the store.
You'll all figure this out soonenough.
But just a heads up that forall of the clothing items that
you see listed, the pictureshown is not the only color that
that particular item isavailable in.
Hoodies and men's t-shirts areavailable from sizes small to 5x

(01:32):
, and they're available in eightdifferent colors.
Sweatshirts and ladies t-shirtsare available in sizes small to
3x, and they're available insix different colors.
Click into any of the itemsthat you'd like to know more
about and, if you decide to buy,you'll be able to choose from
the list of sizes and colors.
One of my favorite additions tothe store is the new line of
items featuring the Fueled byTears and Dark Humor logo.
So much merch.
Check it out.

(01:52):
There's plenty to go around foreverybody, and thank you so
much for being so patient andsupporting the show by
purchasing merch.
No-transcript your feedback Nowthat we got the merch out of

(02:13):
the way, let's get down tobusiness and talk about why
we're all here Today's episodenumber 33 and I'm joined by my
wonderful friend, podcaster,international best-selling
author and grief advocate, tonyLynch.
Tony and I touched on so manytopics during our conversation,
mostly because we just have suchan organic conversation every
time we talk, and today was nodifferent when we started
touching on the grief portion ofthe story.

(02:34):
Tony tells a story like you'verarely heard on this show before
A childhood that started offwith top academics, progressed
into family loss, gettinginvolved with the wrong crowd,
selling drugs and selling guns,before finding himself in prison
and years later, through allthe pain, loss and despair,
being seconds away from takinghis own life before he realized
what he was really put on thisearth to do, and that was to
help others through their painand suffering.

(02:55):
It hasn't been an easy life byany stretch of the imagination,
but, like all of us, tony has astory and I'm honored that he's
here to talk about all of it.
As you know, my goal at OurDead Dads is to normalize
talking about grief, loss andtrauma, which are topics that
are not easy for most of us totalk about, but they are also
topics that everybody should bediscussing more Not only
discussing them, but not feelinglike they're taboo topics.

(03:16):
Time may not heal all wounds,but keeping everything bottled
up inside does not heal any ofthem.
Together, we are building acommunity for others to have a
safe space to talk about theirstories and their feelings, and
for anyone who may not yet beready to talk, just to listen to
others and know that no one isalone in this path.
That is why I say we are acommunity and I'm so happy to
have you here.
If you have a story of griefand loss to share and might want

(03:36):
to be considered as a futureguest on Our Dead Dads, go to
OurDeadDadscom, go to thecontact us link and then select
be a guest, fill out the formand send it in, and you just
might be able to tell your storyand carry on this mission of
helping ourselves and so manyothers.
You've been patient enough andnow it's time to talk to tony.
Please enjoy the show and stickaround for the end when I'll
tell you about next week'sepisode.
Mr T, what's going on, mybrother?

(04:16):
What's up, sir?
How are you?
Oh man, I am blessed andfavored, highly favored.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
I'd love to hear that .
You know I started the magazine.
It's been doing really well,just with the first one that we
got out, and the second one iscoming out real soon.
Send me your information foryour podcast, so I definitely
will.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
I definitely will.
You know what?
Why don't we just start rightthere?
We've got a lot of stories totell.
You've got a lot of grief totalk about, so we're going to go
, we're ripping off the swimmies, we're going into the deep end
of this.
Let's start with you tellingeverybody about the magazine,
because that's going to be hugeand there's a lot that's going
to come out about that in thenext few months or so, and by

(05:00):
the time that this episode airs,we will already be well
underway with this project.
So let's give everybody someheads up about what you've got
going on.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, most definitely man.
So I just started a magazinecalled Grief Talk Magazine.
It's the first ever magazinededicated to grief, trauma and
mental health and it's an effort.
It was a way to support ourcommunities by showcasing
articles from different peoplethat are in the field right and
they're giving healthy tips onhow to deal with certain things
that people may encounter.
And also it's another way tosupport those that are in the

(05:33):
field, bringing recognition tothem, shining a light on them.
So we started a new segment andI just dropped the first one
just over a week ago.
It's been doing really well.
The downloads are through theroof.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
That's amazing Congratulations.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, thank you very much.
Thank you Really, totallyunexpected, right.
And so I decided you know, withthis one and moving forward,
that I wanted to add in a fewmore things you know, like
letters to your loved ones.
So if people have a letter thatthey would like to submit to
the magazine and have itshowcased and things like that,

(06:07):
they can submit it in Events.
So anything that people havegoing on fundraisers, groups,
anything of that nature, send itover there to us, because we're
going to be updating it everymonth so people know where to
find these things.

(06:28):
No matter where you are in theUnited States, we want to make
sure that people are informed,that they know where these
things are going on at, so theycan also get the support that
they need.
And then podcasts.
So I've been reaching out to alot of podcasters saying, hey,
send me over your information, Iwould love to put your podcast
in the magazine to showcase whatyou do, and that way, people
know where to find these awesomepodcasts by these amazing
people and also partners, sopeople can know who I'm

(06:49):
partnering with and et cetera,our sponsors, et cetera, things
like that.
And it's also a way of peoplegetting in contact with these
individuals so they can startgetting everything that they
need need.
So when I say that I'm allabout the community, man, and
supporting my fellow griefworkers, mental health
practitioners, trauma-informedcoaches and things like that and

(07:10):
podcasters, I'm all about it,man.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
I really am A thousand percent and luckily you
and I have had manyconversations to this point
before today.
We've gotten to know each otherpretty well and it looks like
we're going to be workingtogether for quite a while.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah, I'm tired of seeing men struggling with
addiction because people don'tknow how to support them.
It's time to change thenarrative on a lot of things,
and so that's my goal now movingforward, just changing the
narrative, supporting those men,getting them the support that
they need and rightfully deserve, but also educating other
people on how to create anatmosphere so men can feel
comfortable and safe to talk.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
That's something that we have talked a lot about.
You and I have talked togetherabout it.
I've talked a lot on thispodcast and I've said from day
one that my whole mission withthis podcast is I mean, it's so
many things Creating a safespace, environment to talk about
grief, trauma, loss, movingforward, all of it for anybody.
I have said many times that Iwould love to have conversations

(08:12):
specifically with men, becauseI know that you know, obviously,
my perspective is the maleperspective.
Growing up, we were largelywhen I say we, I mean men, boys
we were largely taught don'ttalk about this, it doesn't need
to be discussed.
I've said in the past thatthere are times in my young life

(08:32):
when I was told, leave this tothe women, which I've always
thought was bullshit.
This can't continue and itlargely isn't as bad today as it
was 20, 30, 40 years ago.
But it's still not anywhereclose to perfect and men still
have the idea that we need to bestrong, we need to be big,

(08:56):
strong men, we need to take careof everybody.
Yeah, I'm guilty of thatsometimes.
I'm sure you're guilty of itsometimes too.
I get it.
But we need to create anenvironment where everybody,
every single person men, women,children who need help, who need
to talk to somebody, have thatplace to talk and have their
feelings validated, know thatwhat they're going through, what

(09:17):
they're feeling, is real andthey don't need to justify it to
anybody.
Nobody needs to justify whatthey're going through.
When you're dealing withsomething, when you're dealing
with grief, you don't need tojustify it.
Unfortunately, some of us feellike we have to, and I'm sure
that some women sometimes feellike they have to too, either,
if they feel like they eitherhave to focus on work, have to

(09:40):
focus on their families, orwhatever it is.
We all are in situations wherewe've been taught by society, or
made to feel by society whereit's not as important as
everything else.
Move on, rub some dirt on it,get over it.
Get over it is the biggestthing that so many people hear.
Get the fuck out of here.

(10:02):
We don't need to get over it,we need to get through it, and
it's not as simple as everybodywould like it to conveniently be
.
It just isn't.
So I love that you have beendoing this work for so long.
I love that you've put togetherthe magazine.
There are so many things goingon because there's a lot of help

(10:22):
that is needed in the griefcommunity.
A lot of people don't realizethat.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
That is very true.
I don't know if people haveseen it or not, but those that
follow me on Facebook orInstagram or LinkedIn know that
I just revamped my oldorganization, which is the GGN,
the Global Grief Network, and soit's a place where us, as grief
practitioners, mental healthpractitioners, trauma-informed
coaches come and we cometogether, we collaborate and we

(10:52):
network with each other to buildthose partnerships in order to
do exactly what you just said tohave that impact in that
community.
Right, it's just a great wayfor people to know who we are,
but it's also a great place forus in the grief community to
support each other.
Right, because the biggestthing that I find that, since

(11:13):
I've been in this field, is thatwe often don't have people to
talk to or we are oftenmisunderstood because of our
sense of humor and things likethat, right, and people don't
understand.
When you're in the grief field,we find things very
entertaining that you may notfind entertaining, so it's great
to be around like-mindedindividuals.
Yes, we find humor.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
We find dark humor as a way to get through things and
a lot of people I've found thata lot of people do get that.
I was a little worried thatmaybe my sense of humor was a
little bit warped and kind of onan island by myself, but I've
been realizing over the lastseveral months that's not the
case.
I definitely have a sharedsense of humor with a lot of
people.
But yeah, you know, sometimeshumor, and especially dark humor

(11:55):
, is how we get through thesethings.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
Right?
Well, you can't have the bestof it.
You have to make the best of it.
Of course you do.
Grief can be a very sad thing ifyou don't understand it, right?
Those of us that are in thefield or have walked this path
and have chosen to do goodthings in it, we often look at
certain things and go you knowwhat?
This would be freakinghilarious if somebody did this.

(12:20):
Right, and it's not againstanyone or anything like that.
It's just like look at theother side of it, right, and
it's not against anyone oranything like that.
It's just like, you know.
Like, look at the other side ofit, right, you know, and so it
can be.
I'm right there with you.
Like, the more and more I'maround individuals, like-minded
individuals, heart-centeredindividuals in this field, the
more and more I feel very normalabout my sense of humor, right?

(12:42):
Oh, yeah, because we're quickto say things, just things, and
people that don't understand.
They look at us and go what inthe world, why are you joking
about that?
That's freaking hilarious,right?
Yeah, and I think that's why welove doing the podcast, because
we can be surrounded bylike-minded individuals,
heart-centered individuals,people that downright get it,

(13:02):
but they're amazing people.
They're amazing people, and Iwant to go back to what you had
said in the beginning.
You know about looking at menthe way that we, the way that
we're in.
Too right?
Yes, it sure does.

(13:25):
Because in the community thatyou're in, they may not see the
other side of it.
Over here, they just see what'sgoing over, which can be huge
in a lot of ways.
So it's a matter of combiningeverything and seeing everything
not just from the 180 point ofview but from the 360 point of
view, and then stepping outsideof there and breaking it down so
we can pinpoint those avenuesthat need to be go down, to

(13:48):
bring that awareness out.
You know, you're right, this isnot the 50s, it's definitely
not the 60s or the 70s.
We're in the 2000s.
And you know, the crazy partabout it is and I wish this
wasn't true, but I do a lot ofdata collecting.
When it comes down to you knowwhere the statistics are with
men.

(14:09):
And what I found was just withinlike the last since COVID.
As a matter of fact and peoplecan go back and fact check this
the rate of suicides,homelessness, addiction, mental
health issues and things likethat have risen substantially.
It has risen substantially,have risen substantially.
It has risen substantially.
And just recently and I want tosay this with all due respect I

(14:29):
lost another friend.
He lost his battle withalcoholism and, you know, after
talking with his family and findout what was going on, he was
dealing with unresolved grief,unresolved trauma, feeling like
he had been abandoned, and hehad a wife and a child and you
know, which leaves the questionsto them why wasn't I enough?
And I'm about to go throughanother one as well, where I
have another client and I'veknown this guy for quite some

(14:52):
years and I've watched him godown the path of addiction and
dealing with grief, guilt,unresolved trauma, being
molested as a child, alcoholismaddiction, and he finally just
went over the edge with hecombined fentanyl, heroin and
meth and decided to shoot it up.
Now he's in the hospital andthey're about ready to pull the
plug on him.

(15:12):
Good man, good man, but I saythat to say this those are just
two cases amongst the millionsof men out there struggling
right now.
You know I got this shirt.
You know, and trust me, I'm notbeing sponsored by them or
anything like that, but I lovethis shirt because it says you
are enough and on the back, youknow, there's a little saying up

(15:34):
there and I wear this in honorof those individuals.
It doesn't matter if you'remale or female.
I love, I honor thoseindividuals by saying you are
enough.
You know, and there is supportout there.
There's more support now.
This is one of the benefits ofbeing in the 2000s, right?
There's more support now.
There's more people talking andbringing awareness than there's

(15:56):
ever been.
We're in a good time.
The problem is people don't knowwhere to find them, right?
So we have to do we have to doour due diligence to make sure
that people know that theseresources, that these
individuals are out there andthat we give a damn about you.
You know not just the one partthat you want to talk about.

(16:19):
We give a damn about the thingsthat you don't say, neither,
right, the things that you'rehiding because you think no one
wants to hear it and we leavenobody out those who have lost
pets.
I'm actually right now, before Igot on the phone with you, I
was coming up with the new paneldiscussions for the GGN and
because we started off doingpanel discussions, so we're
talking about everything, we'rebringing it back once a week,

(16:40):
panel discussions with thefamily and we dive in deep into
those topics that most peoplewant to hear about but they're
afraid to put it out there.
I'm like, no, let's not beafraid, let's discuss it, let's
talk about it and to also getdifferent perspectives.
So people, so individuals thatmay be going through a
particular thing, they canrelate.

(17:01):
It's all valid.
Yeah, it's all valid, right?
You and I both talked aboutthis.
There's no wrong way to dogrief.
You just have to have people tobring these things to light and
to be able to be willing to saythe quiet parts out loud, like
you said.
You know what I'm saying.
This is, and I cannot say this.

(17:21):
I'm going to say thisunapologetically.
The way that some people treatcertain things is bullshit.
It's absolutely bullshit.
It's absolutely bullshit.
No one should be criticized forthe way that they feel, because
who are we as human beings totell another person the way that
they feel?
No one should be criticized theway that you know.

(17:43):
If they feel like they're avictim, then find out why they
feel like they're a victim,because you don't know their
story.
You can't criticize thembecause it didn't happen to you.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
And even if you know their story, who the fuck are we
to criticize?
Anybody.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
You shouldn't be doing that.
You shouldn't tell people youknow not to do this and all of
these different things.
We have to do better, yes, andI think, I believe that we all
have a role to play in thisworld, and it's time that we do
exactly what we're called to do.
No more hiding in the shadows,get our asses out there.

(18:15):
It's time to do the work thatwe're called to do and it's time
to support one another.
Nick man, look, I'm just a guyfrom Virginia that's gone
through some hell of a shit.
Look, I'm just a guy fromVirginia that's gone through
some hell of a shit and I knowif I can sit around and do the
stuff that I do.
There's so many amazing peopleout there that's so much better
than me, right, and I want tosee them do it Right.
Yeah, the magazine was just oneof those things.

(18:36):
I was sitting around.
I was like you know what?
I'm wondering what else I cando?
Right, because you and I talkedabout it and I think I
mentioned it briefly and then,shortly after that, I went on.
The simple program was like I'mgoing to do it right, and here
we are, you know, and thank youfor everyone out there who have
been supporting it and they canfind it moving forward.
They can go to the website andactually get it off of there.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
It will be subscription based as well do me
a favor, can you mention thewebsite, because we I meant to
ask you that, but let's get thatout there for anybody who wants
to get into this, for anybodywho wants to subscribe and read
the magazine.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Most definitely it's wwwmensgriefsupportorg.
You just go there, go to theshop, and then you'll see
everything lined up there, andso you just go there and pick
out which one you want.
You can either do a monthlysubscription for the digital or
the hard copy.
You can do a six-monthsubscription, which actually the

(19:31):
six month and the 12-monthsubscription on both offers a
discount.
And so you know, once you getsigned up and everything, we get
everything out there to you andwe're going to make it work.
But also, you know, for thoseout there who would like to
donate, I did include thedonation there I was being very
resilient in the beginningbecause I'm like, no, keep your
money.

(19:51):
But then I'm like you know what?
We definitely need the help inorder to keep doing what we do.
So if people want to go donate,they can.
You know, a dollar goes a longways, and you know, and we just
appreciate people's supportAbsolutely.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Thank you so much for mentioning that.
Like I said, I meant to ask youbefore we got so wrapped up in
the conversation.
I didn't ask you to put thewebsite out there.
I'm glad that you did and, asyou said, thank you to everybody
out there who's already beensupporting.
If you have not yet been, ifyou have not yet had a chance to
check out the magazine, tocheck out Tony's website.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Please go there and check it.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
I'm also going to put the website in the show notes
as well.
I appreciate that.
I definitely appreciate that.
Sorry to have knocked that offcourse.
I didn't mean to cut you off.
No, no, brother, I appreciatethat.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
I definitely appreciate that and also
shameless plug.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
That's what this is for.
You are in the spotlight today.
You get to shamelessly plugwhatever you need to plug.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
This is for.
You are in the spotlight today.
You get to shamelessly plugwhatever you need to plug.
It is just one more.
You know for the podcast.
So people that know me knowthat I'm a podcaster as well,
and for those that don't, thenyou know, I want to make sure,
or at least let them know.
Come check us out on YouTube.
It's called the Grief.
Let's talk about a podcast.
We do live streams.
We do daily live streams.
We do daily live streams.
This time of season, people aregetting sick, so we're not doing
as many as we would like to doand everything, but we are

(21:08):
bringing them in as people arestarting to get better.
People are coming back.
Hey, tony, I'm feeling a lotbetter.
Let's get it on.
So, just like yourself, brother, we talk to people from across
the world to bring information,inform people and showcase those
individuals out there.
Right, and these are justefforts that we do.
Also, my new resilient mansupport group.

(21:31):
We are in-person.
We're going to change it tohybrid, so it's going to be
virtual as well as in-person.
But we also offer that in twodifferent languages Spanish as
well as English, so we have aninterpreter.
All these different things.
So we're doing these things andthis is a program that I wrote
and put together and it'sdesigned to help men navigate

(21:51):
this world of grief man.
Like I said, it's just one stepin the right direction and an
encouragement for other peoplethat want to do what we do.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
I love that.
I love that you're doing somuch.
You've been in this field foryears and you want to talk about
resilience.
In the few months that I'veknown you, you have just been
picking up so much steam, sothat is a fraction of everything
that you have been doing.
I know personally that you havea lot of plans in the near
future.
Everybody's going to find outabout that in good time, but I'm

(22:24):
so honored and proud to be partof this with you.
Oh, man.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
The honor is mine because, you know, when I first
started this, nick, six yearsago, people looked at me, right,
and there wasn't too manypeople that was taking me
serious.
I started this six years ago onsocial media, as a matter of
fact, right before COVID.
It was always a talk, it wasalways a thought, and then

(22:48):
finally, I just pulled thetrigger and didn't know what I
was doing.
Right, you know?
And by me being an introvert, Istarted off as a matter of fact
, but I didn't even have socialmedia before all of this.
I really didn't.
I wasn't on Facebook, none ofthat.
I was like I'm good with that.
I used to go in and check itout, but then, after that, I was
like, no, I didn't want to doit.
And so when I first started,somebody was like, as a matter

(23:12):
of fact, somebody posed thequestion to me do you have any
of your social media?
I said no, what do you mean?
Well, you need Facebook, youneed Instagram, you need
LinkedIn.
I was like I don't want to doany of that.
I'm such a private guy, right?
One conversation led to anotherand I got introduced to some
people and they set me on a pathto where I started meeting so
many other people.

(23:32):
Then here I am in the community, right, and I just followed the
path.
Then I got on social media andI'm looking at all of these
amazing people that I reallyjust wanted to learn from and
they all shut the doors on me.
They all shut the doors on me.
Man, I was like man, you know,no matter what I did, hey, you
know, I'd love to work with youand learn more about what you do

(23:54):
, you know, because I am stillfresh off in the game, you know,
and I really just wanted tolearn.
I'm looking for some mentors orat least somebody that could
give me a hand up, you know,into the field.
Man, for a year and a half,people just shut the doors in my
face and finally I was like youknow what, no matter what I do,
it's not working.

(24:14):
And so after that I said youknow what I'm just going to do
me, and that's where Memories ofUs really started to dig its
heels in and begin to go fromthe infestates and begin to
develop some legs.
We began crawling and stuff,and once I really just started
doing, I just went in, createdstuff, do this, that and other.
I just still didn't know what Iwas doing, but I knew I was

(24:36):
going to do it.
And then I started doingvirtual support groups and then
COVID hit and I really justlooked at the opportunity.
Something switched.
I was like this is the perfecttime, this is the perfect time
to get the name out there to dosomething.
And I did, and it just keptgoing.
And after a while, those samepeople that shut the doors in my

(24:59):
face were those same peoplethat came back and was like hey,
love what you're doing.
And I didn't treat them thesame way, because I don't treat
people that way.
Back was like hey, love whatyou're doing.
And I didn't treat them thesame way, because I don't treat
people that way.
I'm like, yeah, I would love towork with you, I would love to
collaborate with you.
Then the podcast came and Irealized that I love having
conversations with people andover a period of time it just
morphed into something good andI look back on it now and I get

(25:22):
to sit down with people likeNick and so many amazing people
that are doing some big thingsin this world.
And you guys inspire me.
I'm always working hard becauseI'm like man, you guys inspire
me.
Why not?
Right?
But there's a there's anunderlying reason why I do it as
well is because and I say thisagain, I always stay true to

(25:44):
this I look for ways ofsupporting us in this field
because we are important and wedeserve to have a light shined
on us.
And you know, and the otherpart of it is that it's not
about me, it's so much biggerthan me.
It's about our communities.
It's about what we can providefor them but also build a good

(26:08):
life for ourselves as well.
Right, and this is my way ofsaying, I want to give you what
was never given to me, which isI built a platform and with
everything that I do, I'mreaching back and I'm grabbing
those people and pull them up ona platform and go see the world
from this point of view, righthere Now.

(26:29):
Look at your path and exploreit.
Go out there.
We're going to be here together.
Right, because I want to seepeople at the top of their
mountains.
Man, I want to see inspire thegeneration coming behind us,
because if we can set the barreally high, we're going to
inspire them to do better thanus, and if we can get an impact.

(26:52):
Can you imagine if we inspirethem to do bigger things than us
.
That's amazing, that is trulyamazing, and so that's the
purpose, man, that is the reason, and so, you know, I'm looking
back on it now and it's humbling, because it wasn't easy.
I'd be alive if I told you thatit was easy, man.
I've gotten my butt whippedevery step of the way, on top of

(27:15):
dealing with my own grief andaddress my own traumas and
learning to be a student as wellas a teacher, so I can be
better at what I do.
And I'm not trying to be thebest out there, especially, you
know, I'm not trying to competewith nobody, I just want to be
the best at what I do.
There's a number one spot in mylane, and that's what I'm going
for, right?

(27:36):
I want others to look at theirlane and go.
That number one spot in yourlane, that's the one I want you
to shoot for.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
And I do everything I can to get them there.
Everything.
We've talked about this before.
I've said it before in my show.
I have always believed that andI know you've agreed with this
the only person that any of usever need to try to be better
than is the person that we wereyesterday.
I don't need to be better thanyou, you don't need to be better
than me.
We need to make each otherbetter.
We need to push each other tobe better.
You've said how, in the sixyears that you've been doing
this, there have been a lot ofpeople who have been there to

(28:13):
guide you, to help you, andearly on, there were also some
people who said, nah, I'm nothelping this guy, I got my own
shit to deal with.
And I will say that there havebeen a very few people who I've
experienced the same thing with,who just either will kind of
give me the brush off kind of ananswer or won't respond at all

(28:34):
and all right, fine, whatever itis.
And if I ever get to haveconversations with those folks,
then that would be great.
But for the meantime, I've alsolearned that for the very small
number of people who justdecided that they either don't
have the time for me or whateverit is what it is.
I'm going to keep movingforward.
I'm not letting that discourageme, the same way that you

(28:54):
didn't let it discourage you.
I have also been incrediblyblessed by so many people who
have taken the time, people likeyourself and other folks that I
have spoken with on the show,that I've spoken with off the
show, that are much moreestablished and have a huge
thing going, and did they needto take time out and make time

(29:19):
for me?
No, did they.
Did you?
Yes, and why?
Because of the overall mission,because you want to help people
and because you want peoplelike me and others to help
people.
Podcasting is not a competitionsport.
We're not Joe Rogan here.
We're not top 10 in the worldpodcasts.

(29:39):
We need to see our missionthrough.
We need to do the best that wecan.
There is plenty of room for allof us here.
I'm not trying to compete withanother podcast.
Yes, we're in the same lane.
You and I are both in the griefarea.
That doesn't mean that I'mtrying to compete with your
podcast.
I'm trying to help your podcast.
I'm trying to work with you sothat we can both get there,

(30:08):
because why would anybody saythat just because somebody's
listening to my podcast, they'renot going to listen to yours,
or because they're listening toyours, they're not going to
listen to mine?
That's a joke.
That's not true at all.
Exactly, it's up to everybodyto decide who they want to
listen to, who they'd like tolisten to and who they won't.
And I'm never offended whensomebody doesn't end up
listening long-term to mypodcast.
One, because there's a millionother things to do and two,
because people have lives.

(30:28):
If somebody wants to listen,I'm going to be here.
Everybody knows where to findour dead dads on apple or
spotify or amazon or whatever,like when they want to come back
, they will and they can,because I will be here and you
will be here and we're going to.
We're not going to stop, we'renot going to wait.
We're going to keep going onwith the mission.
When someone is ready, if theyneed to take a break, or if they

(30:51):
just don't have time, we'll behere when they're ready.
We're not stopping there.
Who either don't activelylisten to podcasts, or they
don't know about me, or theydon't know about you.
Some of them, we'll get themonto our radar.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Some of them, we won't yet.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Eventually we might.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
We will.
And I want to add to what yousaid, right, because I want to
add a little bit of a challengeto people, especially to us as
podcasters, right, right, Ilisten to podcasts all the time,
from Joe Rogan, club Shade toTom Bilyeu you know, you name it
A lot of amazing people.
They're like my solid mentors.

(31:31):
Jordan Peterson I lovelistening to him, I love
listening to David Goggins, Ilove listening to Coach Payne I
love, you know, so many amazingpeople.
But I'm looking at thepodcasters and often, you know,
I imagine myself being up therewith the big dogs, right, the

(31:55):
reason being because I see thatthey're reaching so many people.
And I think to myself, like theone thing that I don't see, I
don't see podcasts like ours upthere Right, like ours up there
right, and I go, I want to be upthere alongside of them.
Yeah, because I want thosemembers, I want people to know
who we are, I want to be rankedup there with some of the pod
top podcasts.

(32:16):
Oh, I'm with you.
I'm not competing with anyone.
This is just a goal.
It's just a goal.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah, I'm with you.
I want to be up there.
Yeah, I agree with you.
I want our dead dads to be ahousehold name I want your
podcast to be a household name.
I want everybody to know thatI'm here.
I want everybody to know whyI'm here.
I want everybody to hear ourdead dads and think god damn,

(32:41):
that's a good podcast.
You know exactly right.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, that guy is genuine, he's right yeah,
because it doesn't matter whoget up there, right?
No sense, as long as one of usgets gets up there and gets
recognized and then the worldcan see who we are.
Because, for one, if if you getup there, right, I'm on your
podcast people are going to goback in and go oh my god, who is
this dude right?
And so many other people it'sgoing to going to shine a light

(33:06):
on them Guess what.
Now we get to come up and get alight shined on us and people
know who we are.
That is the way that we have todo it, and so I'm constantly
looking at that.
I'm like, okay, is my podcastgood?
I would like to say yes, butthen again, that's my own
opinion.
Sure, I need to go off of whatpeople tell me, right?

(33:29):
That's why I always ask myguests how did you feel about it
?
Right?
Is it something that you'd bewilling to share across your
platform, to get more out there?
Right?
And so I am just looking at itand going, okay, what is the
next steps?
How can I get to this point?
And then, once I get to thatpoint, like, I have goals for
the podcast, I have goals foreverything that I do, because,

(33:51):
one, if I get there, it isanother way that I can reach
back and grab someone else.
This is why I love doing likethe videos, so people know who
I'm talking to, Right?
And that's why I'm a big, bigsupporter in promoting
yourselves.
So if I get up there and I get8 million views on it, that's 8
million people that get to seeNick, that's 8 million people

(34:13):
that get to see all the otherbeautiful, amazing guests that
I've had on.
Shine a light.
Right, let's get up there Right, and that's the mission, right.
I'm not competing, but I amchallenging myself and again.
I say this there are 8 billionpeople in the world, things like
that and hone in on theircrafts, man.

(34:46):
Because man, look, that spot upthere is screaming for someone
like us to be up there in it,why not, and you know what?

Speaker 1 (34:55):
I think it's going to happen at some point.
I think that this type of apodcast, a grief podcast, right
now it's not a top thing becausethere aren't people who have
that.
Well, first of all, therearen't people who have that huge
name recognition that are doingthis type of a podcast.

(35:15):
Second, grief makes peoplefucking uncomfortable.
Talking about it makes peoplefucking uncomfortable.
Everybody is of the mindset ofyeah, do we?
Do we really need to talk aboutthis?
God damn it.
Yes, we need to talk about this.
It needs to be front and centerin everybody's lives because,
even if you're not dealing withit right now, you're going to.

(35:37):
When you do, you're probablygoing to need a little bit of a
hand.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yes, and you said the key words right there.
It is such a universal, sharedhuman experience.
Yes, yes, it should be reallytalked about on a level that
should blow your fucking mind.
Yeah, right, you know what I'msaying.
There should not be a householdthat you can go into where the

(36:03):
families aren't talking aboutwhat's going to happen if I pass
away.
Well, how do you deal with theloss of your mother, your father
, your sibling, your spouse,your son, your daughter?
Right, you know what I'm saying.
It all should be talked about.
And the reason why I say that?
Because, for one, I wish I hadsomeone to talk to me about all

(36:26):
of those different things.
Yeah, honestly, the only lossI've never experienced was loss
of a spouse.
Right, and I do everything Ican not to complete that holy
trinity, right, you know.
So you know what I'm saying.
It may sound strange, but I doavoid a lot of things like no, I
do that to say this, you know,because there is a side of me

(36:47):
that goes.
You know what?
I would love to find somebodywho can deal with me.
For the most part, my life isnot for the weak of heart.
I deal with grief all the time.
There are times where you knowwhere I may be gone for 36 hours
just going around, you know,talking with men, supporting
these men, et cetera, right,there may be times where I'm

(37:08):
gone for a month at a time,traveling across, doing guest
speaking, helping other peoplestart their organizations, books
, things like that, right, andmy travels would take me all
across the world, yes, andhaving someone that can support
that but also understand that Iam constantly healing.
So having someone else with themindset of you know they've

(37:30):
been healing themselves and youknow and don't mind that I'm
building something beautiful,I'm building the legacy and want
to be a part of that, is alwaysa deep embedded dream.
Now, will it happen?
I don't know, but I'm okay withthat, right.
But, yeah, man, um, trauma, allof those things.

(37:50):
I wish there was somebody thatwas there to help me navigate
that.
Well, because it was.
It was hard.
It was hard holding myselfaccountable for the things that
I didn't know, the people thatI've hurt in my life because I
didn't know, the things that Idid to myself because I didn't
know and just in the name ofsurvival.

(38:10):
Right Now, I don't regret mypath whatsoever.
I think I've had a veryinteresting, beautiful life, but
I've lost a lot of people youknow what I'm saying during the
course of time and the only wayI knew how to navigate it was
being alone.
And I've been alone for a verylong time and I've always
learned how to survive, nomatter where I was, and I was

(38:33):
good at it.
The hardest thing I've ever didwas switch my mindset over and
go.
I'm tired of surviving.
I want to live, I want to builda good life for myself and I
want to do good in the world.
That was the hardest thing Iever did Not to get mad or upset
for people for the roles thatthey've played in my life, but

(38:55):
also understand a profound truthin my life that maybe I'm the
seasonal one in people's lives.
Maybe I'm not somebody'sforever right, but maybe I can
be someone's season Right In away to where I can give them my
gift and help them navigatetheir world until I'm called to

(39:18):
do something else.
So a lot of different thingsthat come along with that.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
That's fucking deep man.
That's a lot.
It can be.
Come along with that.
That's fucking deep man.
That's a lot.
It can be.
It can be.
When I was previously single, itdefinitely went through my mind
about am I ever going to findanybody who's going to be
willing to put up with me, whowants to be with me?
I wasn't even in the grieffield at this point.

(39:42):
Luckily, when I met Kim, wewere both at a point in our
lives where neither one of uswere really expecting anything
and we found each other and wejust were obsessed with each
other from the beginning and ithas been an incredible life
since then, and she is totallythe only word that I can use is

(40:05):
totally.
She's completely supportive ofeverything that I'm doing and
she knows that it's a lot doingall the interviews with the
podcast.
All the work outside of thathas to be done with the podcast,
because it's not just as simpleas do an interview and
sometimes it can't like.
I know that you do a lot oflive interviews and I think that
at a certain point it issomething that I am considering

(40:28):
switching to doing liveinterviews, that this way they
will require less editing and Ican focus more time on other
things Until then.
There's a lot of time that getsinvested in this, there's a lot
of work that gets invested inthis, and I'm very lucky that I
have somebody who is assupportive as she is for what

(40:48):
I'm doing, and she knows thatwhen I go into something, I will
occasionally go all in and ifit's something that I believe in
, if it's something that I'mpassionate about, if I was going
all in on playing video games,then we'd probably be having a
different conversation.
Very true, that wouldn'texactly be productive for my
time or our marriage, but thisis definitely something that I

(41:13):
have believed in since I startedit early this year, something
that I've become incrediblypassionate about, and I want to
continue doing that.
I also want to find ways that Ican continue doing a lot of the
things that I'm doing, andmaybe not being so
all-encompassing with our time,because I do have a full-time

(41:34):
job.
This is basically my secondfull-time job, but I'm loving it
and, at the same time, I stillneed to find the balance,
because I don't want to driveher crazy at the same time while
I'm doing it.
Very true, very true.
I'm so fortunate, I'm honored,I'm blessed to have been linked
up with the people that I havein this field, with you and with

(41:56):
so many others, because I couldnot do it on my own.
I've learned so much since I'vebeen here.
I'm constantly learning.
Every day that I'm doing this,I'm learning other things.
I have apparently been teachingpeople things which I guess is
also a good thing.
You can be the student and theteacher at the same time.
We all can learn from eachother.

(42:17):
It doesn't matter if you'vebeen in this field for six
months, like I have, or six,like you have, or other folks
that we both know who have beenin this for double digit years.
We are all in this together.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
I love that you said that because it's absolutely
true.
I've talked with people fromacross the world, from New
Zealand to China, hong Kong,vietnam, you name it.
I've probably been there Paris,italy, germany, uk, you know
and once in a while well, notvery often, but once in a while

(42:52):
I get those people that thinkthat their blueprint, or the
things that they learn, has tobe the, you know, has to be the
one-stop shop for everything.
Right, they got the blueprintto it and I've had conversations
with these individuals.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
I'm like really.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Okay, and I don't do it intentionally, it's just my
nature.
When people do that, I'm justlike I'm going to challenge this
just to see where you are, andnot saying that I'm anything
special, but there's sometimeswhere people just need to learn
a different perspective abouthow to do things.
I'm a firm believer in pivotinglearning how to pivot in your
work, right, especially whenyou're dealing with people, when

(43:27):
you're dealing with people thathave gone through some of the
most horrific things, especiallyin my case with men, right,
everybody has a differentpersonality.
So, no, then, my approach isvery diverse and it all depends,
you know, on the situation.
What they're going through ishow I can speak, and then, as
they begin to grow and heal,then my conversation kind of

(43:48):
changes.
They keep helping, guide themRight, and so and like you said,
sometimes, well, a lot of timesyou have to be the student in
order to be the teacher.
Yeah, when those moments come,you have to determine what role
that you need to have in thatmoment.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Right.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
Right and go in it with an open mind and an open
heart to be able to learn somethings that you may not ever,
you know, had to explore.
I learned from conversationsthat I have with people.
That's why that's one of themain reasons why I really love
doing the podcast is because I'ma student.

(44:28):
In that time, I'm in your worldright.
I'm learning about how youdealt with the things that
you've gone through right and,prime example, I've lost my son
right At the age of eight yearsold, so I never got the chance
to see him become the man that Isaw him becoming.
I got the glance to see part ofit and he passed away at eight.

(44:49):
And I've talked to people thathave gone through similar things
that maybe their child theydidn't make it past three and
sometimes they didn't make itpast 21, et cetera, right, and
so I listened to him.
I really listened to him, andso I listened to him.
I really listened to him and itteaches me how to approach
situations with people that havegone through similar things,

(45:11):
because I couldn't tell you whatit was like to see my son
become a teenager.
But if I could learn fromsomeone and come across someone,
I know how to sit in that spacewith them, right, and to let
them do what it is that theyneed to do moving forward.
So everything, nothing is everwasted.
No, you know.

(45:32):
And so, when you look at itfrom that perspective, you will
always be evolving in this worldof grief, as long as you're
willing to surrender to theprocess that you have to go
through to be what you're calledto be right, and that's a
beautiful thing.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
It's a really beautiful thing.
You don't have to.
What this process has taught me, what this podcast has taught
me, is that I don't have to havehad similar experiences.
Now Kim and I try as I'vementioned many times in here,
kim and I tried to have kids ofour own.
It didn't happen.
We're not the first couple.
We're not the last couple.
It is what it is.

(46:13):
I will never experience whatit's like to lose a child.
I will never experience a lotof the things that the wonderful
people that I have spoken withon this show have experienced.
I'm not trying to cure anybody.

(46:33):
I'm not trying to be atherapist.
I have said that a billiontimes.
I'm not trying to fix anybody.
I am trying to provide aplatform for someone to talk
about their experience.
I am trying to be somebody whocan hold space with that person
during that conversation so thatI can learn from them.

(46:57):
Just because I haven'texperienced losing a child
doesn't mean that there'snothing for me to be learned by
having a conversation withsomebody like yourself or with
anybody else who has lost achild.
We can all learn.
You said it.
You need to.
In order to be the teacher, youhave to be the student.
There's a lot of things thatI'm trying to be a student of so

(47:21):
that I can help other people.
And again, never trying to curepeople.
There's no cure.
No, there is no cure.
There doesn't have to be.
There's just people that care.
Yes, right, and that's where Icome in.
I don't need to be somebody whohas lost a child, or somebody

(47:42):
who lost their dad to a drowningaccident or had a drug addicted
, schizophrenic father who wasphysically and emotionally
abusive, like some of the otherstories that I've had in the
past I don't need to have beenthrough that experience to be
able to hold space for thatperson can.

(48:03):
But there are so many peoplethat think that, oh well, I
don't know anything about that,I can't do anything to help.
The fuck you can't, right?
Well, everybody can help, youdon't have to have 10 years of
school and a bunch of diplomason your wall to be able to help
a person.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
There you go.
That's what stops a lot ofpeople.
That's what you just said,right there, right.
So you know, like I said, youknow, the only loss I've never
experienced was a spousal loss,but I can talk about losing my
parents.
I can talk about losing myyounger brother.
I can talk about losing friendsto homicides, overdoses,
suicides.
You know natural or unnaturalcauses, causes.

(48:44):
You know from cancer to kidneyfailure, heart disease, all of
these different things.
I've experienced it.
Right, yeah, but the problem isthat you know a lot of people
like say, for instance, for me,I understand my lane, I am good
in my lane, I work with men andevery aspect of it.
If i't understand something thisis the reason why I love having

(49:06):
partners from across the world,because if I don't understand
something or I feel that I'm notequipped, I know the best thing
that I can do is that I havepeople that I can reach out to
and say, hey, I have someone whois more of your area.
Would you mind if I recommendthem to you?
Right, right, I know the damagethat can be caused of holding

(49:29):
on to someone and giving theminformation that's not going to
be beneficial for them.
So I am humbled in that way.
I am blessed in that way aswell to have those connections,
and you said the right thing.
It's bullshit that people don'ttake the time to understand.
It doesn't take much to holdspace with someone.

(49:51):
It doesn't take much, and Ithink what happens a lot of
times people don't reallyunderstand the concept of
holding space.
No-transcript.
So be a visitor.
If I come to Nick's house and Iknow that Nick is going through
something, the first thing I'mdoing is coming in your house.
I'm bringing food.
I got some Wendy's.

(50:11):
I already know what you like toeat.
Hey man, I'm going to stop overhere at the fast food place,
but what I did tell you is thatI'm stopping at the grocery
store too, because I'm alreadythinking you probably didn't get
out the house.
Didn't get out the house.
So let me go get this.
Let me get you some toiletries,let me get some hygiene product
.
Let me get you some food.
Let me bring this on over here.
Let me find out what you liketo drink, whether it's soda pop,
kool-aid, whatever right.
I'm going to get this stuff.

(50:32):
I'm bringing it to your house.
So not only do I have that fastfood you know what I'm saying
that food that you can just sitdown and eat, and things like
that.
But I'm already looking aroundyour house to see.
Maybe Nick didn't do his laundryI got you.
Maybe Nick didn't do his dishesI got you right.
Maybe Nick didn't clean up.
You know what I'm saying, so Igot that too, because when I'm

(50:53):
coming in your house, I'mvisiting right, you know what
I'm saying and I'm going tovisit to make sure that you're
not worried about taking care ofme.
That's not your job.
My job.
Job is to take care of you andbe in the same space with you.
So I'm eliminating all of thosethings because the only thing I
need you to do is sit down,maybe find a TV show, enjoy your
meal right?

(51:15):
You don't have to talk.
I'm okay with not talking withyou.
Maybe that's what you need atthat moment.
We are so afraid of lettingpeople have the things that they
need without interference.
Everybody always thinks thatthere's words that need to be
said, and sometimes it's not.
Sometimes it's just yourpresence is enough, right.
The willingness to allow me tojust sit is enough, right?

(51:40):
Another challenge that mostpeople have when people start
talking, they either cut themoff or they turn it around and
make it about them, and I tellpeople a lot of times.
Sometimes it's good to shut thefuck up, right.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
You know what I'm saying?
It's good to shut the fuck up.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Sometimes you don't need to say nothing, right?
It's good to just sit therebecause it has nothing to do
with you.
Don't you take away from whatthat person is going through?
And I don't care who you are.
You do not take away from whatthat person is going through,
because society has alreadytaught them that no one cares,
and as soon as you do that, ittakes away everything.
When it comes down to men, youdo that to me.
I shut down, I don't want toopen up to you, no more, because

(52:16):
you just told me exactly whatthe world has always told me no
one cares about what I gothrough.
So why would I waste my time soyou can just take it away from
me?
You're not going to allow me tospeak, you're not going to
allow me to get it off my chest.
So fuck you.
I'm going to sit around, butdon't complain if tomorrow do
not come for me, becauseeventually I may lose my fight

(52:38):
with my demons.
And just remember it didn't haveto be that way.
It didn't have to be that way.
All I needed was somebody totalk to and you wouldn't allow
me that one simple thing.
So fuck you.
You don't get to grieve over mewhen I lose my battle, and I
tell that to other people aswell.
I tell people this all the timeDon't be upset when it happens.

(53:00):
It's not a matter of if it'sgoing to happen, it's a matter
of when, because there it's nota matter of if it's going to
happen.
It's a matter of when, becausethere's no coming back from that
.
What you did to that individual.
You have to hold yourselfaccountable.
Just remember you had theopportunity to change the
trajectory of how this wassupposed to go and, as profound
as it sounds, sometimes peopleneed to hear the brutal truth.
Sometimes the things that youdo is the reason why they made

(53:23):
that decision.
Don't be upset about it.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Do better.
Yeah, you know, it's funny whenyou said that we all scroll
Facebook and Instagram and seeall the videos and the memes and
all that.
And there was a video that Isaw about a week ago.
It was a clip from one of DaveChappelle's shows and it was
just like a I don't know 10 or15 second clip and he it said
well, here's another idea thatcould be really controversial.

(53:47):
You could just shut the fuck up.
It's so funny that you bringthat up and I had just seen that
and it's true.
Sometimes you the best way thatyou can help a person is to just
shut the fuck up.
Don't if the person wants totalk, but let them talk.

(54:07):
Don't be the controller of theconversation.
Let them talk, figure out whatthe person needs and, as you
said, maybe they need to saynothing, maybe they just need
you to, as you said, be avisitor, just be there in the
space for them.

(54:27):
Sometimes they don't even needthat.
There are plenty of times thatpeople have told stories about
how they have gone to someoneright after grief and brought
them food or brought themgroceries or whatever, and the
person would say I reallyappreciate this.
This means a lot.
I can't really do this rightnow.

(54:48):
I need just a little bit oftime.
Just give me a day or two andcome back and we can talk more.
You know, right now I'm notready.
If they're not ready, don'tforce it.
And you're not forcing it byjust showing up and coming with
food or coming with groceries.
That's not forcing it.
That's being present.
That is something that peoplethat are grieving need, and a

(55:11):
lot of people don't understandthat.
Don't just wait for someone tosay, hey, can you come by, maybe
bring food.
Don't wait, just do it.
If they aren't ready for you,they'll let you know.
And then you say, okay, noproblem, give them a hug.
I love you, I'll talk to yousoon, I will come by tomorrow.

(55:34):
Say that.
Don't even say let me know ifyou need something.
Say I'll come by tomorrow, I'llcome by in a couple of days to
check on you.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
I want to add to that , because I'm not going to give
you the chance to deny me, right, I need to come over and let
you know that I'm thinking aboutyour ass.
Yeah, I'm knocking on your door, like when I call you.
When I call you, I've alreadytaken the initiative to go to
the store.
Right, I got bags in the car.
I already got the food from theWendy's or McDonald's or

(56:00):
whatever.
I'm already on my way.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
Well, in that case don't even call, Just show up.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
I'm just letting you know that I'll be there in like
five, okay, you know what I'msaying.
Surprise?
No, because, for one, I knowyou know I have a better
understanding of what you'regoing through After the funeral
and everything that's whenpeople, when everybody leaves,
right?
You probably got a wholerefrigerator full of tuna salad

(56:28):
and lasagnas and all of thesedifferent things that you're not
going to eat, right?
I am coming to let you know thatI am thinking about you first
and foremost.
Secondly, I'm letting you knowthat even after everyone is left
, I'm still here to support you,to make sure that you're doing
okay.
I want you to come to that door.
I want you to get mad at mebecause I showed up unannounced.

(56:51):
When I say I'm calling, whenI'm calling you, I'm already
five minutes away.
If I'm not already walking upto your door, you're not going
to turn me away because, for one, I got bags in my hand.
You don't want this food to beoutside getting spoiled.
You're going to open up thedoor and I'm coming in right and
I'm going to give you a hugLike go ahead, sit down.
Man, I got you, let me go putthis away for you right, that's

(57:13):
right.
I'm no longer giving you theopportunity to sit in silence
and struggle through thisBecause, for one, we are human
beings Right, we're human beingsand I want you to know that
somebody cares about you, thatgives a damn about you, so it
doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
I'm not giving you theopportunity to to we don't have

(57:35):
to go.
I'm not giving you theopportunity to sit and wallow
and beat yourself up.
I'm not going to do it.
I need to know that you're okay.
I need to know that.
I need you to know that I wantto see you tomorrow and the next
day after that.
So, if I have to come to yourhouse two weeks in a row, if not
longer, if I have to, whateverI need to do to make sure that

(57:57):
you know that I care about you,I will annoy the shit out of you
.
Right, I'm annoying, I will beTony.
Look, man, you've been over hereevery damn day, and I'll be
over here every damn day afterthat too.
That's right it don't matterwhat you say, I'm coming Right
when your family call Tony, whatis he doing?
You're damn right.
Your family have to call me tofind out how you're doing,

(58:27):
because you may not be answeringthe phone but they know I'm
here for it.
I am annoying because when youstart feeling better and I can
see you breathing and I can seeyou start cracking smiles and
laughing and things like that,then I'll back off a little bit.
But in that time that you needit, in that darkness and things
like that, my goal, my job, isto walk with you to let you know

(58:52):
that you're not by yourself.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Let's take a quick break and have a few words from
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And now back to the show In theimmediate time following a loss

(01:01:06):
, no matter who it is, no matterwhy it happened, no matter how
it happened.
There's a lot of people there.
People come together rightbefore the funeral, people come
together for the wake, peopleare there for the funeral and
then people go back to theirlives.
And I'm not putting blame onpeople for doing that, because,
unfortunately, I'm not puttingblame on people for doing that
because, unfortunately, theworld doesn't stop.

(01:01:26):
Everything continues.
We all have to continue.
But what people really need intimes like that is exactly what
you've said they need someonewho can be there, who can hold
that space, especially if thisis a really intense grief
situation after everybody isgone.
That's what is needed.

(01:01:47):
So, yeah, look for everybodywho's out there.
If you live anywhere close towhere Tony lives and you need a
friend, then you make sure youconnect with Tony, because he's
going to bring a fucking bag ofgroceries over to your house and
he's going to annoy the shitout of you and he's going to
make sure that you're okay.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
And those are all good things.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
That's right.
That's exactly what he's goingto do, and that's.
Those are all good things to do.
That's right.
That's exactly what he's goingto do, because that's the kind
of person that he is, and I'mnot just saying that to blow
smoke up his butter or yours asthe listener.
I'm telling you as I havegotten.
I've had the honor to get toknow tony in the last few months
, before we are having thisparticular conversation today.
This is who tony is.
He's not fucking around here.

(01:02:25):
He's not trying.
We're not just saying stuff forthe sake of a podcast interview.
This is real human emotion thatwe're talking about.
This is real life.
This is the way it is andeverybody needs to be on board
with this, because we're allgoing to lose people.
We're all going to know peoplewho lose people.
It doesn't take much to helpsomebody through a hard time For

(01:02:47):
anybody who thinks it does.
You just don't know, and that'sokay if you don't know.
That's why we are doing showslike this to educate people and
help everybody to understandjust what the fuck is going on
in my head, in your head, ineverybody else's head.
If you don't know what's goingon in other people's heads, then
just listen for a little bit.

(01:03:09):
It's okay that you don't knowwhat's going on but it's not
okay if you're not willing toput in the time to listen and
understand what is going on insomebody's head.
You can't help somebody if youdon't know.
And again, it's okay if youdon't know, but if you're not
even willing to try to get tothe answer, that's where the
problem is.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Yes, yes, in human nature, right, we get taught
certain things and we encountercertain people.
There's people who just thinkthat they just know it all.
Those will be the people thatyou will most often encounter.
I know what's best for you,right?
You need to go out and you needto do that, I know, right.

(01:03:48):
You know it's good for me,right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
I've been through this before.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Yeah, we've been through this before, right, you
know what I'm saying.
Come on, man, we encounterthese people.
Unfortunately, these are thepeople that will show up that
think that they know everythingthat you need and everything
that you're going through, andoftentimes they're just making
the situation worse.
They will piss you off, right,or you get those people that

(01:04:13):
mean well, but they say some ofthe most stupid shit.
Right, and don't get me wrong.
Look, and I say that with alldue respect, but they do say a
lot of stupid shit, like theymay compare your loss to the
loss of a pet.
Now, a lot of it's perceptionversus reality.
The perception is that theythink that it's the same.

(01:04:35):
The reality of it is that maybe all that they've had, right?
You may have grown up in asingle parent household and you
come around somebody who's lostboth parents, right, and they
will compare their loss to yours.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
I don't fault anybody .
I'm sorry.
I didn't make that up, I don'tfault anybody for not having a
particular experience.
Again, I will never be in theposition of having lost a son or
a daughter.
We don't have kids.
I can't lose what I don't have.
We have a cat, Maxie, who I'vetalked about many times on this

(01:05:12):
show.
There's pictures of her on acouple of the episodes.
She is 18 and a half years old.
She's very healthy.
She's probably going to live tobe 100.
No, I'm kidding, I joke thatwe're going to keep her around
until she's 30.
But I mean, I think maybe likethree dozen cats in the world
have made it that far.
Every day that we have her atthis point is a gift.
Like she's incredibly healthy.

(01:05:33):
She's active.
In fact.
Actually we were bringing insome furniture from outside the
back deck for the, you know,because of the hurricane coming
in a few days.
I think that a little lizardbecause we're in central
Floridaida, a lizard must havegotten it because you know she's
.
Generally, I compare her to yodain star wars because like she,
you know, like 900 years old andmoves slowly, but every time

(01:05:53):
the lightsaber turns on he turnsinto a fucking beast.
He's like doing backflips andhe's jumping around, he's going
crazy and then when the fight'sover and he wins, then he goes
back to, like you know, movingslowly.
A lizard must have gotten in,because she went into kitten
mode and she's snaking throughthe table and the chairs and
she's chasing.
So I couldn't find it, but shewas chasing something.
So she went into one-year-oldMaxie mode instead of

(01:06:17):
18-year-old Maxie mode, and shedoes that every now and then.
When that little girl is gone,she's our baby.
She is, we live for her, sheowns this house.
We just pay the bills.
And that time comes where sheis no longer here.
I promise you that day I willprobably be inconsolable.
It's going to be so brutal.

(01:06:39):
Everybody that I know whodoesn't have human children, who
have pets yes, they are ourchildren.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
That's what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
But that's what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
You just said it, right there.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Right, but here's the thing.
This is where I'm going withthis.
They are our children.
They are entirely dependent onus.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
That being said, me losing a cat does not equate to
you losing your son or anybodyelse losing their child.
They're similar, but it's notthe same.
I'm going to have to push backa little bit, right, because you
said some things and I'm notdisrespecting you whatsoever,
I'm just bringing a differentperspective to it.
That's your family, oh,absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
She is family.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
That is your family, listen to me.
So it is comparable.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
It's comparable, but it doesn't mean it's the same.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
It doesn't have to be the same.
You feel this is your family,right, right, this is your
family, so you take care of thatindividual, you love that
individual, you nurture thatindividual.
Right, it doesn't have to becompared to losing a child or
anything like that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
No, it doesn't need to be.
But the problem is some folksdo it Right and some folks will
make that comparison and they'llsay, oh, I know what you're
going through.
I lost my cat.
Like no, I will never say tosomebody I know what you're
going through.
I've lost a pet that I've hadfor years.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
It's perception versus reality.
It's perception versus reality.
Now, if you said that, and theway that you come across it, the
way that you said it would behow people will perceive that
information.
Now, I never take away anythingfrom anyone.
That's why I said no, don't dothat, Because it does feel the
same.
It hurts.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
Oh it does, it's going to hurt, it will.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
Right.
So now, understanding thataspect of it, I go, and it took
me a long time to get my headwrapped around it.
But then there was a more deep,embedded understanding when I
understood where people wascoming from.
Right, because I used to go man, I can't believe this person
says some stupid shit like this.
I can't believe this person.

(01:08:50):
But then I started thinking Igo, they're relating to me the
best way that they know how,although it may be your pet,
this is still your family.
So they're coming now there'sways to approach it to where you
can take the understanding ofhaving that loss, of losing a

(01:09:11):
family member and we're notgoing to separate it because
it's still losing a familymember and you can take that
experience and you can use it inorder to be relatable to the
person that you're talking to.
Right, look, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
The loss is still important.
I would never take nothing awayfrom anyone, for the simple

(01:09:35):
fact of if I took that away fromsomeone, it can have very
detrimental results.
Last thing I want right, becauseI don't know how you feel about
it.
I just know how you compare it.
So that gives me an idea of thedepth that it goes to.
And so you know who am I to saywell, it doesn't compare to
this and doesn't?

(01:09:56):
It doesn't have to compare.
It's the relationship we, ashuman beings, we have to look at
those different things.
Just because we may have hadmore than some you know what I'm
saying it doesn't mean thatwe've had more than most.
It's the relationship that wehave with those individuals or
the pets and things like that.

(01:10:16):
I've met people that have lostgoldfish that tore their whole
world up right, you know whatI'm saying.
Does it make it any less?
No, it really doesn't.
That person cared for thatgoldfish.
That person cared foreverything, right, and so it's

(01:10:39):
our job to let them have that,without putting somebody down,
without coming back at them andgo, no, don't do that, just have
a conversation with them.
Right, that's that they can, orwhat they have right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
That's that they can or what they have right, and
that's respectable, that they,absolutely those individuals,
even had the balls to come andsay something about that, yeah,
the people that had the balls toeven start the conversation,
because that is the one of thebiggest problems right now is
that so many people will noteven begin the conversation.
That is why we are stuck inthis problem.

(01:11:10):
That is a big part of whatfolks like you and I are working
to change.
We're trying to provide thisplatform so that people can talk
, so that people not only feellike their story is important,
but knowing that it is important.
Yes, they need to know that,whatever they're feeling again,

(01:11:32):
we've said this before it isimportant, it is valid, it is
necessary, it is all of thethings.
It is so critical that whensomebody has something to talk
about, they talk about it,because that's how you get
through something by holdingeverything in, by saying nothing
.
That is how you get buriedfurther in grief.

(01:11:55):
That is how you get driven downthe rabbit hole of depression
and potentially other harmfulthings.
Whether it's substance abuse orwhatever the case may be,
depression is dark, fucking area.
Now look, I've been to some badplaces.
Fortunately, I have never, ever, been to a place where I ever

(01:12:17):
considered that this world wouldbe better off without me here,
and I am so grateful for thatbecause I know people who have
been to that place.
I know people who have takentheir own life.
You've been there.
You and I have talked about it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
Yeah, brother, that's a dark place to be in.
It's, oh my God, it's such adark place and I will tell you,
I'm sure it is part of thejourney with you.
Yeah, I want to say if you'rewilling.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
I know that we've been going on and on for over an
hour and I could talk to youall damn day long.
This is your story and now thatwe've covered all of that, if
you're up for it, I would lovefor you to talk about some of
what you have been through, someof the loss, some of the dark
places that you have been to inthe past that have gotten you to
where you are today.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
Of course, I started at the beginning right.
So at the age of six years oldI was molested by my neighbor's
son.
My mom was best of friends andI learned very quickly how to
protect myself.
It happened twice.
The third time I tried to killhim and then it changed me.
It really changed me to where I.

(01:13:25):
It was like Dr Jekyll and MrHyde On one part of my life.
I was my mama's son.
I was my daddy's son, straightA student in school, you know,
couldn't do no wrong, dressedlike a nerd, you name it, high,
GPA, whatever, and things thatmy mom thought I was outside
playing with the kids.
I was selling drugs, gettinginvolved in fights.

(01:13:47):
I started getting involved inthe games and I got really good
at selling drugs and fighting.
And so when I got good atselling drugs, I got good at
selling guns.
It wasn't.
I did that for a few years andmy mom never even knew, because
you couldn't tell my mom that Iwas out there doing anything
wrong because she would neverbelieve you.
Oh my God, my son, no, he stilldraws, he still.

(01:14:07):
He loves drawing, he loves hissister, he loves riding his bike
, he loves, you knowskateboarding and things like
that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
Yeah, and all of those things may have been true.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
Yeah, and they weren't true, right, yeah, you
can love your sister.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
You can love drawing, you can love skateboarding, you
can love riding your bike, butthere were a few other things
that you loved that she didn'tknow about.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
Exactly so.
I lived in a world to where Iunderstood that there was people
that were capable of doingreally bad things, and I figured
I was like, well, if I got tobe a beast in the world, I might
as well be a beast in the world.
Right, you know what I'm saying.
So if you want to try to get me, I'm going to get you type
thing, the survival of thefittest.
I did that for a few yearsuntil the reality of my life

(01:14:47):
finally came around when I was15, when I shot two guys at
school and my mom was like huh.
I said yeah, my mom hadsuspected it, but she never
really knew.
And then the police tried tobust me and my mom was like huh,
and my dad was like I fuckingknew it, I just couldn't put it
together.
And my dad was like I fuckingknew it, I just couldn't put it

(01:15:08):
together.
And I was like yeah.
So I held on to that.
I eventually left home at theage of 15 and moved to
Washington DC and I was therefrom 1990 to 1992.
I moved to Colorado when I was17.
I had my oldest daughter.
I almost killed the guy becausehe was trying to start a fight
with me.
He was a game-banger, but hedidn't realize I was a
game-banger too.
I was just living a differentlife.
I had a little girl, I had afamily and I wanted to just take

(01:15:31):
care of them and he got inbetween me and them and I beat
that man half to death in frontof them and I had to walk away
from my family because of that.
Because I knew right then andthere deep down inside I knew
the streets weren't going to letme go.
Now the streets didn't let mego.
I walked away from him.
I ended up going to prison in1994 for a crime I never
committed, but I took it as aslap on the wrist because they

(01:15:53):
didn't catch me for the thingsthat I did do.
And I got out in 1999, the endof 1999 and the early 2000s.
I was shot 22 times for somethings that I did do and I
wasn't even mad.
I was like, oh, I was shot 22times for some things that I did
and I wasn't even mad.
I was like, oh, I was mad thatthey let me live.

(01:16:14):
And so after that it was likelet's go to war.
You know, and I've been set upby people that I thought cared
about me.
You know they set me up to getme killed by some rivals.
I've been homeless over 20times in my life.
20 times in my life I've seenpeople that I cared about die
Kids, old people over somebullshit, right Over a color,
claiming this and claiming thatyou know, throwing up gang signs

(01:16:35):
and being angry and things likethat.
It's a lot of stuff manOverdoses, suicides, homicides.
I've seen the police kill moreof my friends than the streets
ever could.
I've carried them in my arms.
I got blood on these arms whenI've carried them to their
family's house, like here's yourson, here's your daughter,
things like that.
Or I had to go to those housesand go hey, you're the mom of

(01:16:58):
such and such.
Yeah, your son's over there.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
What do you mean?

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
he's there, I'd have to walk away.
It was crazy.
Been there, done that.
Let's see, like I said, I'vebeen homeless 20 times.
I've been in a narcissistic,abusive relationship with my
son's mom and everything.
And, yeah, she taught me a lot.
For two and a half years sheconvinced the state of Colorado
that I was a fugitive dad, andthe state of Colorado believed

(01:17:22):
her until they realized that Iwasn't the crazy one, right, you
know.
And so I had to bounce backfrom that.
A bunch of times, man, I've I'vehad, I've been put in some
really dark places and I've hadto fight back.
Sometimes I didn't know if Iwas.
You know there were.
Sometimes I really wanted lifeto just stop wifing on me, just

(01:17:43):
take me out, I'm tired, right.
There's times where I wantedpeople to just kill me, be done
with me, but I wasn't going togive it to them.
You was going to have to earnit, right?
I'm just not going to give youmy life and be like, yeah, do it
.
No, you're going to have toearn it.
Yeah, this isn't going to be agift, right?
And then, you know, when I hadmy son, I thought it was the

(01:18:05):
best thing in the world.
I was like it changed my life.
I started going to men's groupsbecause I need to learn how to
be a man and you didn't need tobe surrounded by good people,
good men and so I did that and Ichanged everything.
I had to work on me a lot,right.

(01:18:26):
I had to figure out thosethings about why I was the way I
was, and I wanted to be betterfor my son, and I was.
I became really good.
My son was six months old.
I lost my dad to congestiveheart failure.
Three months after that, I lostmy younger brother.
He was 16.
To a major 31st of 2015, whichis coming up on his anniversary.
My son suffered a majoroverdose because his pharmacist

(01:18:47):
mixed his medication wrong.
So for Halloween, you know, of2015, he was in the hospital and
the hospital mistreated us.
They even came back and said,oh, he's not going to make it
right, only to have him wake upthat next, following Monday and
you know what I'm saying,looking at me like that you know
what I'm saying, what are wedoing?
I was like, oh, waiting for you,that's what I was waiting for.

(01:19:09):
You know, happiest day of mylife.
He didn't remember any of itand I left it like that.
He began to periodicallyremember bits and pieces and
I've watched my son go throughthe seizures.
I've watched him go through somuch.
I tell you what man, as aparent, that's something that
you that when you see thosethings, it scares the bejesus
out of you.
I've never been afraid ofanything in my life, but that
moment, right there, I wasafraid.

(01:19:29):
I was afraid that I was goingto experience that loss and when
he came through, I was happy.
Nine months later, he got sick,june 14th of 2016,.
He got sick and early June 16thhe passed away from unknown
causes, and I was there whenthat happened.
My heart broke into a thousandpieces and there was nothing

(01:19:52):
else left of me, but I still hadmy mom right and I still had my
sister and I used to call mymom.
And then, two years after that,two years and one month after
that, on June 25th, which isactually my grandmother's
birthday, my mother passed awayand I went through it.
I lost everything.
I had lost everything.
I ended up moving out ofColorado, going to South Dakota,

(01:20:15):
rapid City, with a female, onlyto find out three months later
that she was a racist.
I ended up losing everything,came back to Colorado, bounced
around on people's couches, andthis is where it gets
interesting.
This is where the path thatpeople don't really understand
how it comes about.
Because I told myself I waslike this is not going to beat
me, I'm going to keep fighting,so I'm doing everything I can to

(01:20:37):
.
You know, I'm thinking I'mdoing everything I can right,
and not realizing how far downthe rabbit hole I was going
right, because life was lifing.
I was like this is not going tobeat me, so I'm doing
everything I can.
I got around some entrepreneurswas thinking about starting a
company and everything.
I'm just like all right, youknow.
And as time went on, I realizedI didn't want to be here anymore
.
I was tired.

(01:20:58):
I've been fighting my wholeentire life and I was just done.
And finally I was like you knowwhat?
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it and I canconvince myself that the world
would be a better place withoutme.
I was tired.
I got bill collectors comingafter me, man not having a place
to be, not knowing where mynext meal is going to come from,

(01:21:20):
and things like the sad partabout it was that I was working
and I still lost everything.
And things like the sad partabout it was that I was working
and I still lost everything.
And I began going down that darkpath and I began to think to
myself, like how can I do thisand not raise any sort of alarms
to the people that are aroundme?
And so I began to play 3D chesswith people.
I knew how to move peoplearound and things, and they

(01:21:42):
never even caught on to what Iwas doing.
The hardest thing was goingback and tell them that I did it
.
Then they realized they werelike, huh, I was like, yeah, I
did that.
But I remember when I wasalready I convinced that I was
just convinced that the worldwould be better off without me.
No, I was a guy with no purpose.
I wasn't even I'm not addictedto drugs.
I wasn't.
I've never done any hard drugsor anything like that.

(01:22:04):
I hell.
I hadn't even had a drink sincemy son was a baby and I stopped
drinking then.
So it was just me and my ownthoughts.
I think to myself.
I'm thinking clearly not evenunderstanding the grieving
process, right, you know whatI'm saying.
But I knew.
I knew that I didn't want to doit anymore and I planned it out
.
Finally got a weekend where Iknew that there was not going to

(01:22:26):
be anybody calling me.
I paid up my car for a fewmonths so I knew they weren't
going to be looking for the car.
It's not like I had much right,you know, because the things I
had fit inside of a backpack bythe time they even figure out
what's going on.
The animals been a torment partand there ain't going to be

(01:22:46):
nothing else left.
You don't have to do a funeral,don't have to worry about
anything.
It's just going to be a donedeal.
And I did.
I drove out there to the middleof the desert and two seconds
away to pull a hollow point.
I remember picking up the gunand buying a hollow points.
I said this is going to get thejob done as soon as it hits.
It's going to take everythingout Painless.

(01:23:07):
I'm going to be done.
And two seconds from pullingthat trigger is when everything
changed.
That voice came to say hey well,well, well, you know, we don't
get to do that.
I said, man, hold on.
What do you mean?
I don't get to do it.
This is the one thing that Ican control, that I don't need
your permission for.
Have you seen my wife?
I done messed up and fucked uppretty fucking good.

(01:23:30):
Right, I done fucked up prettyfucking good, man.
I done lost everything.
And you know what I'm saying.
It ain't like that, I gotanything.
So it's not like anybody givesa fuck about me.
And that's when everythingstarted to make sense, when that
voice said oh, you think thatyour life was about you?
Hey, tony, you're not a victim.
Your life was never about you.

(01:23:51):
I go, well, it had to be aboutme.
What about this?
They go, yeah, well, youexperienced that in order to
help that young kid that's goingthrough something similar.
You mean, you're going to fuckme up so I can help them.
Fuck you, right.
And they were like, yeah, butyou actually helped that kid out
, and things like that.
I said, well, what about this?
Well, had you been stable, Iwouldn't have been able to put

(01:24:13):
you where you needed to be.
And you, I don't need that.
And life, everything that Ithrew at it.
It came back and gave mesomething different, helped me
see life from a differentperspective, and it said now
it's time to wipe your foreheadoff and brush your knees off.
Tony, you've been beat up longenough.
Now stand up, take a deepbreath and let's go this

(01:24:33):
direction.
I got something else for you,and at that time I didn't even
know I was going to be in thegrief field.
But something said go findsupport.
Right, Go find some support.
I didn't realize what it wasdoing until I went to go find
support and realized there wasnothing for men.
I was like huh, and I tried ittwice I was like where's the men
?

Speaker 1 (01:24:51):
at they don't come.

Speaker 2 (01:24:53):
And then it dawned on me oh, we need to fill in that
gap.
Why is there nothing for men?
Well, men don't talk.
Let me just test that theory alittle bit.
Let's see what we can do aboutlittle bit.
Let's see what we can do.
All right, let's see what wecan do about that right.
And my gift began to, it beganto poke out and I began to
attract these other men.
And you know, in the mostrandom ass fucking places

(01:25:15):
grocery stores, you know I'msaying family dollar, the dollar
tree, because I was always liketrying on the move if I'm going
to go somewhere, I'm going toget there, I'm going to get back
, and they would catch me rightthen and there.
And I would have theseconversations in the middle of
stories with these people.
And I realized right then, andthere I was, like man, do talk,
my gift is different.
Let me tap into that a littlebit.

(01:25:36):
And that's when the processstarted and I realized that I
wanted to do more.
And I remember this thing cameover my heart and I was like I
got to figure this thing out,man.
And I remember standing aroundwith one of my buddies in his
garage and I was like man, I'mgoing to start a nonprofit.
He's like what do you mean?
I said I'm going to start anonprofit.

(01:25:56):
What are you going to do, tony?
I think I'm going to start anonprofit for men.
And we started bouncing aroundnames.
I was like memories of me.
And I looked it up.
That was taken.
Well, you know what I'm saying,men, you know I'm throwing out
these different names.
And then it dawned on me what isthe one thing that men keep
sacred, that we can protect atall costs?
Because we don't carry aroundpictures of memories.

(01:26:18):
You can't take that away,because if you don't see it, you
can't use it against me.
So I did, I started, I did that.
I said memories of us, that'swhat we're going to do and
that's where memories of us wasborn.
So then I started thinking.
I was like well, I'm anintrovert, how am I?
How the hell am I supposed todo that?
Right?
And like I said, it comes, oneconversation led to another and
I'm meeting some people and theyintroduced me to some more

(01:26:41):
people and I started doingthings in the community and then
from there I got introduced tomore people and now I am, you
know something to say.
Talk about it as if it alreadyexists, right?
And again, I don't know whatthe hell I'm doing.
You know?
And so I am Tony, what do youdo?
I work with men.
I provide space for men to beable to grieve and we support

(01:27:03):
them and things like that Wasn'teven in fruition it to be able
to grieve and we support them,and things like that Wasn't even
in fruition, it wasn't even areality at the time, but I spoke
it like it was Right.
And then from there I startedmeeting like congressmen and the
mayor and the governor andthings like that Tony, what are
you doing?
I tell them the same thing.
I'm Tony.
You know I'm starting anonprofit for men Memories of Us
where we provide support formen going through loss.

(01:27:26):
Yeah, and then I startedpodcasting.
So now, adding that into themixture, yeah, I'm Tony.
I'm the founder of Memories ofUs Men's Grief Support.
I'm also a podcaster where it'san effort to normalize the
conversations around grief,trauma and mental health.
I began to see the pieces fallinto place.
Then the next day, you know, Iwas like you know what?

(01:27:48):
I'm going to get an officespace.
And I met my dear friend, karenand she's been rocking with me
and I got an office space.
Tony, what do you do?
Same thing I'm Tony Lynch.
I'm the founder of Memories ofUs.
I'm a podcaster.
I do grief support for men.
I would love to be in youroffice space so I can do some
support groups in those aspects,and so I knew all of these

(01:28:13):
different things.
I was like, okay, in thegrieving process, this is what
men go through.
So what I'm going to do is thatI'm going to work with some
other organizations to bring inthese different aspects to help
people deal with this fromrecovery, mental health, suicide
, intervention, all of thosedifferent things.
And I focused on the griefbecause I understood the whole
person needs to heal and notjust bits and pieces, and so

(01:28:37):
that's what I did.

Speaker 1 (01:28:38):
And those same people .
This is where it gets realinteresting.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
The same people that I bought in to help me do these
things were the same ones thatstabbed me in the back, dragged
me through the mud, losteverything again, bounced me
around.
So I didn't stop, I didn't evenget mad at them, I just started
laughing.
I was like, well, time to getback to the drawing board and
went virtual and things likethat.
And then, after a while, thepeople here in a space that now

(01:29:04):
they came and said, tony, do youremember us?
I was like, yeah, we got someoffice space.
You don't have to pay anything,it's a free space that we
provide for you.
Would you like to come downhere and start up your support
groups?
I said, man, this is a trueblessing.
This is years after.
During that time I lost myfriend and his family to COVID.
I lost another friend to cancer.

(01:29:25):
I lost his wife to fatty liverdisease.
I lost another friend tosuicide, another friend to an
overdose all throughout thiswhole course of building members
of us.
And then I got into this placeand so many amazing people
started coming around.
It was like we've heard aboutyou, you know, would you like to

(01:29:47):
work with us?
And I was like, man, yeah, andeverything that went on behind
the scenes as far as the socialmedia and things like that, I
didn't have anybody teach me howto do those things.
I did it all on my own, andeven the people that I had in
the game to help me out with mypodcast, they ended up leaving
too.
So I ended up starting theGrief let's Talk About it
podcast, and that's when I gotinto the love of live streaming.

(01:30:11):
And then I hosted my first everconference, which was the
Global Grief Conference, and Idid it annually and I started
meeting so many amazing people.
So I became something differentand I became an author and
people used to ask me would youlike to come do some guest
speaking?
I go, yeah, I've never done itbefore.

(01:30:31):
Yeah, I'll pretend like I knowhow to do it.
Then I would go up there and Ifelt-.

Speaker 1 (01:30:35):
Fake it till, you make it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:36):
Fake it till you make it right.
And I did.
And the crazy part about it wasthat I built everything that
people see right now while I washomeless, everything that I did
, from podcasting to building anonprofit, to traveling around
the world.
I did.
It broke Because I didn't askanybody for anything, but I said

(01:30:57):
, if you need me there, I'llfigure it out, I'll get there.
I didn't have a roof over topof my head or nothing.
I've always just stayed withpeople and life started wiping
on me.
And I didn't have a roof overtop of my head, no, nothing.
I've always just stayed withpeople.
And life started wiping on me,and I didn't let anybody know,
but I took my ass with me.
I took my ass with me, Ilearned the lessons, I humbled
myself through humility and Isaid, if I'm going to do it, I

(01:31:19):
got to keep going.
I got to keep going and I did.
And it wasn't until justrecently, until I started, until
I revealed that I dideverything that you see while I
was homeless.
And I tell you what I am soglad that I didn't stop.
I am so damn glad I didn't stopbecause it's been a beautiful

(01:31:40):
fucking journey, man, and I wantto encourage other people out
there that are doing it that saythat, hey, if I can do it, I
know you can, because youprobably got more than me.
You probably don't have to gothrough as much as I've gone
through, and that's a blessing.
But if you do, I would tell youdon't stop.
When life starts beating up onyou, people around you start

(01:32:01):
acting funny.
Don't stop.
Don't go back after them.
Don't seek revenge.
Just keep going.
Keep a good head on yourshoulders, right.
Eventually it does work itselfout.
Six years later it worked itselfout, so it's been six years of
going through some of the mostcraziest shit in the name of

(01:32:22):
just wanting to serve and dosomething good.
Because the reality of my lifeand most people may not have to
deal with this.
I'm the oldest and the last ofmy bloodline, meaning that after
I'm gone, there's no one else.
My bloodline dies with me, andthat's enough to say.
When I die, when I take my lastbreath out of this place, I

(01:32:48):
want to be an inspiration or anexample for others to do better
than me, to leave a legacybehind.
So you know it doesn't matter ifpeople remember me or not, but
use what I've done to do better,right, and just remember that
not everybody needs a handout,but if you are in a position to

(01:33:08):
give a hand up, to do it.
I've done everything and notasked for anything in return and
I still don't need anything inreturn.
I just want to give peoplesomething to look forward to,
because I'm a nobody, I'm just atony in the world.
Man you I'm saying that foundmy gift and found peace and
service to other people.

Speaker 1 (01:33:29):
You're a Tony in the world, that doesn't mean you're
a nobody, though.

Speaker 2 (01:33:33):
I mean, let me correct that, right.
I say that to say this.
You know what I'm sayingBecause I get corrected on that
all the time, and no harm when Isay that.

Speaker 1 (01:33:40):
Oh no, I know exactly what you meant I'm just saying,
you know, I know that if I hadsaid it you would call me out on
it and I would not doing it tocall you out, just making sure
that you know we are all on thesame page.
Right this entire story.
You have overcome unbelievableodds, with everything that you
went through as a child and thenas an adult family, losing

(01:34:02):
family, almost taking your ownlife and you are where you are
now.
The last fucking thing you areis a nobody.
You are someone who is making adifference in so many lives.
You're making a difference inyour own life.
You saw, whatever it took, evenif you were getting a message

(01:34:26):
that you're worth not doing this.
You are worth more than pullingthis trigger.
You didn't have to listen tothe message, but you did, and we
know you did because you'restill here talking to me and I'm
talking to you.
Had you pulled that trigger,had you really been convinced
that you weren't worth it, thatthere wasn't a reason for you to

(01:34:48):
not be around and to just befound eventually maybe in the
desert, you would have done it.
But you saw something.
You got the message that wastrying to get through to you.

Speaker 2 (01:35:02):
That's what it was.

Speaker 1 (01:35:04):
And you saw something .
Something snapped inside of youto realize that you are meant
for bigger things.
And you're still here.
You're doing those biggerthings.

Speaker 2 (01:35:16):
I'm going to add to that, because I didn't see
enough of this coming Right.
I really didn't.
I did get the message.
I wasn't totally convincedabout the message.
So I made an agreement with theworld.
I said, if this does not work,let me go please, because I
don't want to do this anymore.
And that was their agreement.

(01:35:36):
I said, if this does not work,because I'm willing to follow
this path, as crazy as it may be, but if it does not work, allow
me to disappear.
Let me go find myself a cave inthe mountains.
I won't bother nobody.
You never even know that I wasthere.
I won't even come down to gobuy groceries.

(01:35:57):
I'll get everything I need fromout of the mountains.
I go hunt right, I know how tofish, you never even know.
And let me just live the restof my life in solitude.
And that's what I told myself.

Speaker 1 (01:36:10):
So it wasn't like I made with yourself, right.

Speaker 2 (01:36:13):
It was the deal that I made.
If this does not work, allow methe honor of just being able to
disappear, not mess withanybody not hurt anyone else.
Right, you know, and I knew Ididn't want to hurt anyone else,
it just allowed me to just goright, I won't fuss, I won't
fight, right Matter of fact,people don't even know that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:35):
I'm here, I'm going to go.
How's that working out for youright now?

Speaker 2 (01:36:42):
You see how it's working out now.
Right, you done.
Pulled a Tony on me.
How's that working out for you?

Speaker 1 (01:36:49):
Sorry, didn't mean to almost make you spit your drink
all over the computer.

Speaker 2 (01:36:52):
That was good, because I was like no, he didn't
.
He just pulled a Tony on a Tony.
Oh no, he didn't, becausethat's my favorite line of
people.
I'm like so how's that workingout for you?
Right?
And they're looking like oh youdick.
So, having you do that to me, Ididn't have a choice but to

(01:37:15):
start laughing like I wasgetting.
But no, it's been this beautifuljourney of just falling in love
with this thing called griefman to understand totally what
my gift is and the price thatI've had to pay in order to get

(01:37:37):
where I am, because grief is notone of those things that people
just wake up one day and saythat's what I'm going to do.
Right, it came with a price andit still comes with a price,
because I do.
There are certain rules that Ihave to play by, learning how to
shut my emotions off in orderto be in space with other people
.
The hardest part about that isturning them back on right, but

(01:38:01):
I spend so much time with otherindividuals that I understand
that they're not showing up formy story.
It's not even about me.
It's about them Understandingthat, with even all the losses
and things like that and, as Isaid before, my life is not for

(01:38:21):
the weak of heart Understandingand being accountable for the
path and the relationships thatI've destroyed and things like
that, because I wasn't healed.
But now, in the present day,having that profound reality
that I may not be anybody'sforever and I have to be okay
with that.
I am the seasonal one inpeople's lives.

(01:38:42):
I am here to walk you to yournext destination, but to give
you everything without anyexpectation or any strings
attached to give this to you butalso to have rules, like when I
do meet women and things likethat.
I have to practice discernmentand listen to the conversation,
because my gift is very profoundand so a lot of times what I

(01:39:02):
find that 98% of the time, womenare trying to trauma bond with
me.
So I have to set a boundary andgo.
Okay, I understand what you'redoing.
This is where we're not coming.
I cannot allow myself to beintimate with you in that realm
physical intimacy but I can beintimate with you mentally and

(01:39:23):
spiritually and emotionallybecause I can give you something
to help you.
As far as physically, I cannotdo that because I would be for
one.
I would be a bastard if I didthat and it'd be disrespectful
to the person that you'reactually supposed to be with,
right.
So I have to keep that in mind.
I'm okay with that.
But other than that, it's justunderstanding my role in this

(01:39:50):
world, right, and what I'mactually called to do, and to do
that wholeheartedly.
And so I don't ask much ofanyone in this world, except for
when you get to a certain point, reach back and help the next
person, because remember whenyou came, pay it forward, and
pay it forward, because you onlyhave one life and you will live

(01:40:12):
it every day, but you die once.
It's what you do before that,that in between those dates that
makes a difference in the world.
Treat people good and make surepeople remember how you made
them feel.
People may not remember yourname, they may not even remember
your face.
People will always remember theway that you made them feel.

(01:40:32):
So make them feel as if theyare important, that they are
appreciated.
Make sure you let them knowthat they are loved, and I think
that's what my biggestunderstanding and gift to the
world is.
That right, and I do it everyday.
At least I try to.
I try to be a good person everyday.
Do I fail?
Sometimes I do, yeah, becausethere's sometimes where I'm just

(01:40:56):
like, well, you stupid fucker,I'm going to punch you in your,
because there's sometimes whenI'm just like, well, you stupid
fucker, I'm going to punch youin your damn throat.
So I'm perfect man, I'm notperfect, and there are times
when I see females like you gotto do better, you got to do
fucking better.
Stop, I don't want to hear allthe Tony you dumbass.

(01:41:16):
Did you not see what you justdid?
Damn, I have to go back andhold myself accountable for that
too.
Right?
So I will forever be a studentof this world.
I'll forever be a student of mygift and I'll forever be a
servant of the people and thecommunities that I care so much
about, because I see theimportance of our communities

(01:41:39):
and the people that live insideof there, healing.
I see that and I want so muchfor them to get to a point to
where they can reclaim theirhumanity and be better versions
of themselves, for themselves,for their families and for their
communities.
To each one we teach one, andin my world, just like how iron

(01:42:03):
sharpens iron, women sharpenwomen, men sharpen men, and
together it becomes a verydangerous sword that can be used
for good to reclaim what'srightfully ours, the human
nature, to become the bestversion of ourselves, to not be
bound by certain things.

(01:42:24):
But we got to start somewhere.
That's my goal in this worldnow, just to keep doing what I
do until I can't do it anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:42:32):
Yeah, I think you are well on the right path, for
that you have been through morecertainly than most you had, at
least in your mind maybe not inanybody else's mind, but at
least in your mind.
You had every reason to get out, and yet you didn't.
You're still here and you'rechanging lives.

(01:42:55):
I know that's true.
You know that's true.
And you don't have to sit thereand say you know it's true,
because I know that everybody istheir own worst advocate and
nobody.
Everybody can build each otherup, but most people have a
problem with admitting the worthof the work that they are doing
themselves.
Yeah, and so am I.

Speaker 2 (01:43:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:43:18):
And that's okay, because I think we should be
advocates for ourselves.
We don't all have the abilityto do it, for whatever reason.
I know it's something that Ihave struggled with most of my
life.
My wife can tell you that I amnot good at giving myself credit
when I should be.
Probably not because I'mProbably because I'm not doing

(01:43:40):
something specifically just toget the credit.
I'm just trying to do things tohelp people, which is why
you're doing it as well.
I know that I want it to helpand, as we talked before, I know
that I want to.
I don't want the recognition ofthe work I'm doing, I just want
to be seen by more people sothat I can help more people.

(01:44:04):
I just want more people to knowabout this podcast so that
they'll come and they'll listenand they will hear the
interviews I'm doing.
Again, I'm not doing all ofthese interviews because I want
people to just to know about me.
I want people to meet you andall the other folks that I have
already interviewed, and youknow either the interviews that

(01:44:25):
have been published, theinterviews that haven't been
published To me, that's who thestars of this show are, not just
me.
I want people to know about TonyLynch and I want people to know
about everyone else, and I wantpeople to know about everyone
else.
I want people to know what youand others are doing to help
this world, and I also wantpeople to understand that when

(01:44:45):
they are going through something, they're valid in everything
that they feel and everythingthat they think.
This isn't a game.
This is real life.

Speaker 2 (01:44:55):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:44:56):
And so many people, unfortunately, unfortunately
just don't get that.
They don't get it enough to tomove forward with what they have
to do.
Sometimes people wait and, aswe talked about before, people
don't act and they findthemselves in the hole of
depression and they findthemselves in a situation that

(01:45:17):
they don't come back from.
That is just not the place tobe In this day and age.
I believe that everybody can behelped.
I don't believe that there'sanything that is so horrible
that you can't and I don't meanyou, I mean anybody.
I don't believe there'ssomething that is so horrible
that one cannot come back fromit.

(01:45:40):
There's always somebody, as badas things get, there's always
somebody who's in a worsesituation, and that's true.
Again, I've known people it is.
It's very hard to see it.

Speaker 2 (01:45:53):
I darkness man.
You know, but I think that'swhen we do the things that we do
.
We become that shining light sothey can see in the darkness.
We become that candle that theyneed.
We become that hand that theycan feel in the darkness, even
when their eyes are closed.
They can't, you know, and theydon't see a way out.
That's why it's important.
That's why it's important forpeople to know who we are.

(01:46:16):
That's why it's important.
That's why it's important forpeople to know who we are, to
know that even you know we havesomething that people can hold
on to.
We have a sense of strength.
Some people that we come acrosshave a very strong sense of
faith and things like that, justlooking to give up.

(01:46:37):
We give them something to holdon to until they're able to
develop their own right, andthat's okay.
I want you to hold on towhatever you see in me and
capitalize on that, because it'syours, if you would like it,

(01:46:58):
until you're able to stand upand you're able to breathe and
able to find your voice.
You know that's what we're herefor and you know to be
committed to.
That is a huge honor and ablessing to even be considered
for the role of doing somethinglike that.
You know, we may not always seeit, but we don't have to.
That's the beautiful part aboutit we may not always see it,

(01:47:18):
but we don't have to.
Everything life has a strangeway of working itself out.
It really does, it does, andthat's a good journey, right
there?

Speaker 1 (01:47:28):
It's one that I am proud beyond description.
Dion, I'm grateful for thethings that I have learned on
this journey, the things that Ihave learned on this journey
since I met you, and, as I saidbefore, I'm not slowing down
anytime soon.
I have a lot of things that Iwant to do, and I know that
there are a lot of things that Iwant to do that I haven't even

(01:47:48):
begun to think of yet Exactly.
That's okay, I'm open to all ofthem.
That's okay, I'm open to all ofthem.
Some ideas are going to becoming up, and some are going to
be really good ideas that I'mgoing to pursue, and others are
going to be completelyridiculous ideas that I might
consider.
And if they work out, then theywork out, and I've been
thinking about it for quite sometime, and when I first started

(01:48:09):
thinking about it.

Speaker 2 (01:48:10):
it just wasn't the right time.
Then, all of a sudden, here itis.

(01:48:31):
I'm going to do it.
The right time came about right.
So sometimes it's okay I mean alot of times it's okay.
Sometimes it's okay not to knowwhy you have these things and
just put them back in reservetill the time comes they're not
wasted.
It's just waiting, right,that's all that's it.
They're not wasted.
They're just waiting for theright opportunity to be
introduced into the world.
Then it's your job to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:48:50):
Well, there is that too.

Speaker 2 (01:48:51):
It's your job to do it.
It's your obligation to put itinto the world, because if you
do not take responsibility forit, there's going to be somebody
else that comes and do it, andthen you're going to be mad
because it was yours.
Les Brown said, when you havedreams and things like that, the
people that die with thesedreams and go to the graveyard.

(01:49:13):
A lot of times their dreamscome to them and go.
We came to you and you weresupposed to put us into the
world, and now we have to diewith you.
It is your job, it is yourresponsibility, when those
things come to you, to put themout there, because they're yours
and it's not yours to keep,it's yours to give out, it's

(01:49:35):
yours to share everything thatyou do, all the things we yours
to give out.

Speaker 1 (01:49:38):
It's yours to share Part of everything that you do.
All the things we can figurethem out, we can put them out
there, but when they come to us,don't keep them hidden, don't
hide it from the rest of theworld.
Get it out there.

Speaker 2 (01:49:49):
Yes, it's your job.
You owe it to the world.
Dr Miles Monroe he said I'm ahuge fan of these individuals.
He said your gift is not yours,so when I show up, you owe it
to me.
It is not yours, you owe it tome.
So when I show up, you're goingto have to move throughout the

(01:50:09):
world as if you owe this topeople.
Because you do, you do.
You don't get to carry thatwith you.
Martin Luther King what did hesay?
He goes, a man and his giftwill make room for him.
And it's as if, even if youtried to hide and you went out
to the middle of the woods, theworld would still be the beaten

(01:50:31):
path to your door.
No matter where you go, yourgift will always be needed and
people will always.
It'd be like a beacon forpeople.
All it takes is one person tocome knock on that door and
after that everybody knows whereyou are right.
You might as well work as ifyou're because you do it's not
yours.
I'm going to cut you out.
I'm going to sit at your doorall night long.

(01:50:51):
You might want to open up thedoor.
I'm not going anywhere.
I need what you carry.
I need what you carry.
So you're going to have to getthat to me, right, and when I'm
done I'll leave right.
But until that time, you owe me, you owe me, I move accordingly
.
I don't need food, I need whatyou're carrying.
You was born to give that out.
I'm going to need that.
So that's the way I look at theworld.
When you show up, I owe what'sinside of me to you, and so,

(01:51:16):
therefore, there's not aquestion.
There's not a question.
I owe you and I moveaccordingly.

Speaker 1 (01:51:24):
Yeah, and even if you didn't realize what you owed
the world and what you had tooffer the world that day in the
desert, you do now.

Speaker 2 (01:51:36):
Very true.
This is very true.
This is very true.
Those are true words, those arefacts and it's something that I
cannot deny now.
You can't, I can't deny itanymore when your natural time
is up.

Speaker 1 (01:51:50):
Then it will be up, but at that point you will have
left a legacy that is going tochange lives.
It will continue Well, not thatit's going to.
It will continue to changelives.
It already has and it's goingto continue to change it long
after you're gone.
Hopefully there are things thatare going to help change

(01:52:10):
people's perspective and make animpact long after I'm gone, but
also, hopefully we're going tobe around here for a lot of
years irritating a lot of people, you know, showing up to doors
with groceries and whatever ittakes.

Speaker 2 (01:52:24):
Are you kidding?
We just now getting started,man.
We just got everything that webuilt back there is now starting
to come into the light.
We just not getting started.
So you know, like got a lotmore to do and I'm a father and
I'm not going to leave thisplace until it's done and then,
when it's done, I can hand itoff to someone else.
That's going to be better thanme.

Speaker 1 (01:52:44):
Yeah, and even if somebody comes along while we're
on this path who is better thanus, then good, because we don't
have all of the answers, norshould we.
No, there's always going to besomebody that we're doing better
than.
There's going to be somebodywho's going to do it better than
us, even if it's somebody whocomes along brand new and just

(01:53:07):
has the mental capacity, orwhatever you want to call it to
figure out all the answerspretty quickly and just has the
gift.
There's going to be people likethat, and that's okay too.
Like we said, we don't need tobe better than other people.
We need to be better than whowe were yesterday.
We need to keep trying to dothe best job that we can.

(01:53:27):
Are we going to stumble?
Of course we are.
It's about are we going to getback up and are we going to keep
moving forward?
Are we going to give up?
There you go.
You've already proven why youdon't give up.
No matter how dark of a placeyou were in, didn't give up, and

(01:53:52):
I for one, even though I knewwhat you had gone through before
.
We had this conversation todaybecause you've told me, I am
even more grateful that youdidn't give up, because if you
had, I never would have met you,you never would have become an
author, you never would havebecome a podcaster, you never
would have changed the livesthat you are already changing.
You wouldn't have changed mylife.
You are having impacts every dayon people that you interview on

(01:54:15):
your show.
Whether they become ongoing,continuous conversations or if
they're one-offs, they're stillimpacts.
There you go, and it doesn'thave to be a change that comes
because you're having ongoing,weeks-long, months-long,
years-long conversations withpeople.

(01:54:35):
You can have that change withsomebody after just one
conversation.
There are people that I havespoken with on my show, who I
have ongoing conversations with,and there are people that I
have the interviews with and Ihave barely spoken with them
since, and that's okay, not forany bad reason.
It's not because I didn't wantto talk to them or they didn't
want to talk to me.
I mean, look, life gets in theway and, as you said, sometimes

(01:54:59):
there are seasons and sometimesthere are longer reasons.
At the end of the day, as longas we are here for each other,
as long as we are making thebest difference that we can with
the tools that we have, thenthat's what's important.

Speaker 2 (01:55:12):
My stomach is over here growling.
I love tops.
We could definitely do thisagain, but yeah, I definitely
got to get something to eat.
My stomach is like hey, Tony.

Speaker 1 (01:55:21):
Definitely.
Yeah, you know what?
Yeah, normally we do the rapidfire questions, but honestly,
I'm with you.
I haven't eaten lunch either,and it's almost four o'clock
here and I love that.
People are finding us andthey're listening and they are
spreading the word, and all Ican say to everybody who is
listening is thank you andplease continue to help out and

(01:55:42):
spread the word about my podcast, about Tony's podcast.
Check out Tony's website, checkout the magazine.
I'm going to put all of thelinks into the show notes.
Please check out everything.
And again, there is a lot morecoming from both of us.
We're working on some projectstogether.
You will hear about it in time.
I mean, we're going to have ablast man, we're definitely

(01:56:03):
going to have.
We're going to have so much fun.

Speaker 2 (01:56:05):
I want you to get through the hurricane first and,
you know, be safe through thatand we definitely will pick up.
We're definitely going to justkeep going.
Like I said, I'll get you intothe GG and introduce you to some
more amazing people and thingslike that.
So, like I said, man, we'rejust now starting.

Speaker 1 (01:56:23):
My phone is freaking going off over here.
Oh, smash that thing.

Speaker 2 (01:56:27):
My phone is freaking, going off the whole time.
Everybody's like where you at.

Speaker 1 (01:56:31):
Yeah, a few people have texted me too and I'm just
like just turn the phone off, Idon't even.
I'm not even responding becausesome of those texts I know that
are.
They'll turn into longerconversations and yeah, I have
to wait I'll text them back butthese are.

Speaker 2 (01:56:43):
Well, I have.
I put up a deadline for peoplefor some of the stuff that I
needed for the magazine, right?
So that's exactly what they'redoing.
They're messaging me like hey,you, where do I send this to?
I've already given it to you.
Come on, just send it to theemail and everything else.
But this is holy crap.

(01:57:05):
So all the stuff from theGlobal Grief Network, because I
just now kicked that back offand everything.
So I'm getting the emails in,I'm getting everything in.
So I got to get that over thereto the publicist so she can
start putting that in themagazine.
And then I got more articleswhich the article section for

(01:57:26):
the magazine is already closedout.
I think I got eight articlesthat we're going to be
showcasing, and everything elseturned out to be a lot bigger
than what I thought it was goingto be.
But of course it's never a badthing, right, we just put, we
just separate them out andspread them out throughout the
rest of the magazines.
So always a good thing, it'snever a bad problem to have.
No, it's always a good problemto have Right, you know what I'm

(01:57:48):
saying.
And then, like I said, with you, send description, your logo,
what people can find it, and wecan get that into the magazine
as well.
I want this thing to be thebiggest and hottest thing moving
in the world, because it'sinformative, it's important and,
you know, it's just another wayto help showcase people, get
the word out there.
You know what I'm saying,always looking at those

(01:58:09):
different directions about howcan I be a better servant to not
only just communities, but tothe people that I'm around.
You know, and this is justanother effort in doing it,
something's bound to work,something's bound to work,
something's bound to work.

Speaker 1 (01:58:22):
It's going to.

Speaker 2 (01:58:23):
Yeah, something's going to go viral in the world
and y'all are going to see Tonybe like, look at that, son of a
bitch.
That's right.
But you know it's all abouthaving fun and doing it and you
know, uh, paying homage to thoseindividuals out here to be able
to do what we do but, mostimportantly, to keep reminding
people that this is a teameffort, you know saying don't

(01:58:45):
look at what I do and go lookwhat tony's doing.
No, look at what we can do.
Right, you know, saying we'reall better.
Right, yeah, together we canpush the world and give an
impact that will fucking rockthe rock, those fault plates.
They think that's a damnhurricane or damn earthquake
coming.
It ain't nothing but usstepping right, you don't say,

(01:59:06):
all of us step at the same timein the right direction and every
community out there going.
It's time to get up, it's timeto breathe.
It's time to start healing.
It's time to cut the ties youknow, to make a difference time
to make a difference, man.
Change is coming yeah, it is ina big way, yeah, in a big way,
man, and I'm here for it, I'mhere, you're here, I'm here.

Speaker 1 (01:59:28):
We ain't going anywhere exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:59:30):
I'm gonna find myself a nice little island or
something and put me a littlerocket chair on the beach you
know what I'm saying and gofishing and things like that.
There you go, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:59:39):
So drink in one hand and drink.

Speaker 2 (01:59:41):
In the other hand, I don't drink, so you know what
I'm saying.
No, all right?

Speaker 1 (01:59:44):
Well then, you know what I don't know?
We'll get you a cheeseburger inone hand and get you some
shrimp tacos in the other handto the shrimp, but the
cheeseburger.
I didn't know that you wereallergic to shrimp.

Speaker 2 (01:59:55):
Yeah, I'm allergic to shellfish, right?
Oh, all right, I used to eatshrimp and crab and clams and
all that stuff when I was a kid.
I grew up on the coast, but I'mallergic to all of that.
But a cheeseburger in one hand,maybe.
What can we put in the otherhand?
You know what I'm thinkingabout, know, maybe a flavored

(02:00:15):
Sprite or something like that.
We can do Sprite.
Most importantly, I just wantmy fishing poles.

Speaker 1 (02:00:21):
Well, yeah, that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (02:00:22):
Yeah, I just want my fishing poles.
I want to be able to cast out.
You know, sit back on and enjoythe cool breeze underneath the
palm trees and stuff like that,you know, with some good people
around me and lounging around,laughing with some good music,
maybe.
And lounging around laughingwith some good music, maybe get
some people out there to come doa whole little while.
Maybe maybe we cook a pig onthe ground.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:00:41):
We do so, we're gonna do so yeah, I know see, I got
you the whole thing going on wewent to hawaii for a delayed
honeymoon in 2009 and when wewere on, when we were on maui,
we went to lahaina, which is oneof the areas that was really
affected by the wild, the bigfires last year, which is
recovering very well,fortunately.
We went to the old Lahaina luauand it was just such a blast

(02:01:09):
the way they unveiled.
They were cooking the pigunderground, oh my God, again,
you know what?
Yeah, go eat some lunch you aswell.
Brother, get yourself some foodyou as well brother.
Again.
You know what?
Yeah, go eat some lunch, you aswell, brother.
Get yourself some food, you aswell, brother.
Do the same thing.
Love you man.
Love you man.
Be safe man, please.
We will, I promise Awesome, Iwill keep you updated and please
, any of your family that's inthe Tampa area aware if they're
in a flood zone, if they are atall saying we're not leaving.

(02:01:39):
We're not leaving.
Please do it.
If there's anything you can doto convince them to leave, tell
them to get the fuck out because, like right now, we don't.
It's three days away.
We don't know exactly where thestorm is going.
I mean it could go north oftampa, it could go down to, you
know, naples who the hell knows?
But at this point, wherever ithits, it's going to be bad, it's
going to be a perpendicular hit, it's not going to be good.

(02:02:03):
And if it look, everybody's beensaying tampa is overdue, it's.
It's been a hundred years sincetampa has had a direct impact
hurricane and I I hate to seethat.
If this is going to be the time, but it's got to hit somewhere,
I mean it has to.
Unfortunately, if this is goingto be the time, but it's got to
hit somewhere, I mean it has to.
Unfortunately, if it hitsdirect, like the worst case
scenario is the eye of thisstorm hitting 20 to 30 miles

(02:02:26):
north of Tampa, because then allthe water from the winds, the
way they're going, the windsthat are pushing east, are going
to push that water into TampaBay.
It's going to flood.
It's going to flood Oldsmarabay it's going to flood.
It's going to flood oldsmar,the airport, all the areas
around it.
Like I mean as much as I hateto say, the best case scenario
for tampa bay is that the eyegoes 20, 30 miles south of tampa

(02:02:47):
, because then it'll push the.
The west winds on the northside of the storm would push the
water out.
But I mean like this looks likeit's going to be another, at
least Category 3 hurricane.
So all I would say is whereveryour family is, that's in Tampa,
if they're close to the coast,if they're in an evacuation zone
, tell them if they getevacuated.
To fucking listen, becausethere are already more than 200

(02:03:09):
people that are dead from Helene.
Most of them are up in Georgiaand North Carolinaolina, south
carolina, areas that nobody everexpected to be this badly
impacted by a hurricane.
We look, do we need it again?
No, are we going to get it?
Yeah, somebody's going to getit.
So, yeah, that's the only thingI can say is wherever your
family is, just please tell themto be safe.

(02:03:32):
Try to talk some common senseinto them if they're planning on
staying, because this is, it iscrazy.
And look, people are going tolose houses.
People don't need to lose lives.

Speaker 2 (02:03:45):
Unfortunately I hate to say it, man, but the impact
of the first one and thepeople's lives that was lost.
Hopefully we can learn from it.
I hope so.
Hopefully we can minimize theloss.

Speaker 1 (02:03:58):
We're going to pray for the survivors.

Speaker 2 (02:03:59):
We're going to pray that everyone gets out with
minimum damage and we're goingto pray that everybody keeps
themselves safe, as well astheir families and stuff like
that, and pray that help isthere for those that need it,
for those that need it.
And to ask people that,whatever you can do, they can
donate it, they can come downand volunteer and things like

(02:04:20):
that, that they do so right Outof the kindness of their heart.
Just because it's the humannature, the human thing to do.
It's good to treat people goodman.
It's good to, and especially usin the grief field.
I don't know if people realizeit, but we have become more in
demand than we ever have been,because the world is grieving

(02:04:41):
and they need good people to beable to help them.
And so, you know, for those ofus that are in this field, I
pray that we are called to dowhat we need to do, and you know
, and to do it to the best ofour abilities.
I do so.
I look at all of those and Ijust pray that we can do that

(02:05:01):
these people are protected.

Speaker 1 (02:05:04):
Yeah, wow, geez, go answer your phone, go get lunch.
I'm disconnecting the call.

Speaker 2 (02:05:09):
All right, I appreciate you, brother, love
you man, and we'll talk soon allright, you got it.

Speaker 1 (02:05:12):
Talk to you soon and we'll talk to him.
All right, you got it.
Talk to you soon.
Tony nearly gave up everything.
He convinced himself that thisworld would have been better off
without him.
Thankfully, the voice thatspoke to him convinced him that
that was just not the case.
Tony listened, he got his acttogether and he founded the

(02:05:35):
nonprofit Memories of Us, theGlobal Grief Network and the
Grief let's Talk About itpodcast.
This does not mean that hedidn't have his own inner
battles every single day.
He does, and almost all of usdo.
But he now knows that hispurpose is bigger than he ever
could have imagined and he isliving out his dream every
single day.
This didn't come up in theinterview, but I'm going to put
this out there right now.
If you're having thoughts ofharming yourself, if you think
that you don't have a way outand don't have anyone to talk to

(02:05:57):
, call or text 988 from yourcell phone.
988 is the National Suicide andCrisis Lifeline and they're
there to help you 24 hours a day, seven days a week, every
single day of the year.
And if you don't want to talkto them, then get in touch with
myself, tony, or one of manyresources that are available to
you.
Talk to a friend, talk to afamily member, a stranger, a
podcaster, anybody.

(02:06:17):
We are all here for you.
If you need the help, please donot be afraid to ask for it, no
matter how close you are toconvincing yourself that the
world would be a better placewithout you.
It is simply not true.
Thank you for joining me andtune in next week for Justin
Shepard's interview.
This is the interview that waslive on TikTok and YouTube last
week and, in case you missed it,you'll now get to listen to it
and hear Justin's story aboutgoing no contact with his mother

(02:06:39):
nearly six years ago, beingasked by his three-year-old
daughter why she never met hismom, and the book that he wrote
that tackles the delicate topicof family dynamics and the
importance of setting boundariesin a way that children and
adults can understand.
Make sure you're listening toOur Dead Dads on your favorite
podcast streaming platform,because you will not want to
miss this episode or any otherupcoming episode.
This is Our Dead Dads, where weare changing the world one

(02:07:01):
damage soul at a time.
See you next time.

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033 - Building Resilience and Unity from Grief's Shadow - Tony Lynch

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}033 - Building Resilience and Unity from Grief's Shadow - Tony Lynch