August 6, 2024 • 48 mins
In this episode of "Our Life Beyond," hosts Scott Dibben and Connie King explore the challenges and opportunities that come with significant life changes. Whether dealing with the loss of a loved one or navigating post-divorce life, Scott and Connie provide valuable insights and personal experiences to guide listeners through these transformative periods. They discuss key topics such as coping strategies for grief and establishing a new normal after loss, rebuilding confidence and redefining identity after divorce, identifying passions and aligning them with career goals, and balancing independence with a supportive network of friends.
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Episode Transcript
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Well, hello, hello, hello. Welcome to Our Life Beyond the podcast where we explore how
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to navigate and hopefully thrive through some of life's biggest transitions. I'm your
co-host Scott Dibben and I've teamed up with my great friend and mentor Connie King to
share some stories, strategies, and insights that helped us adapt to the ever-changing
seasons of our life. Whether your life transition is divorce, death of a loved one, switching
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careers, moving to a new city, or just trying to figure out what the hell is next, where
with you every step of the way. But always remember, we're not therapists, just fellow
travelers with a knack for finding humor in the chaos, and maybe some untraditional method
of overcoming what life dishes out to us. Hopefully you'll have fun embarking on this
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journey. So now let's get started.
I want to give a special thank you to Habit Coffee for sponsoring us. So if you're local
to Springfield, you're probably aware of the miserable construction at Highway 60 and
Farm Road 125 heading into Rogersville. Yeah, right in the midst of all that progress is
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the Habit Coffee Company, a fantastic local, vagina-owned business. They're more than
just a coffee shop. They serve delicious scratch-made breakfast and lunch options. They have a state
and county-inspected kitchen, and they love catering events. While it might take a bit
of extra effort to reach them right now, they're excited about the upcoming expansion when the
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highway reopens this fall. Support the Habit Coffee Company and enjoy their incredible
offerings today. Thank you so much, Habit Coffee.
Well, hello, Connie. Hey, Scott, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you doing? I'm
doing amazing. Hey, have you heard? Have I heard what? We need to thank our listeners
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because we are in the top 25% of podcasts with just two episodes. Well, that's awesome.
I didn't know we were in the top 25. I know I have looked and we continue to get more
every day. Wow, that's awesome. Yeah. Isn't that great? Thank you, everyone, for listening.
I am so thankful and have so much gratitude. So thank you. That makes me so happy.
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What's interesting, when you said that, Connie, I just pulled up the map because I was on
the site. Of course you did. Of course, because I'm incredible. Let's give a shout out to
a few people. It looks like we're starting the United States. We've got listeners in
California, which I was in California and I promoted it a little bit last week, as you
know. So hopefully that helped. We've got them in, looks like Portland, many in Texas,
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and then the Midwest. We are in the Midwest, so it just looks like a big red dot for the
whole Midwest. Chicago, Detroit, we get down into, yeah, Louisiana, Alabama. We've got
all the Carolines covered. We've got one, looks like one or two, at least, in Virginia.
Yeah, Virginia Beach area. We go all the way up the East Coast with Washington, we New
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York into Boston, and even into Maine. And then, if you want to jump across the big pond,
we've got a few, not a lot, but we've got a few in, looks like Belgium. And I show about
half a dozen that's, looks like maybe 200 miles north of Frankfurt, which I do have
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some friends over in Amia area, so maybe that's where they're coming from. But we appreciate
everybody. Thank you. Wow. Domestic and international. Thank you guys. Would you have ever thought
that you would have been international for anything, Connie? Probably not. But I will
tell you, I love, you know how I love people anyway, but that makes me so happy to have
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friends everywhere. Yeah. So also, with that, I know that we had some feedback, and everybody
loves talking to Connie. So Connie took a lot of that feedback. So do you want to, do
you want to start off by at least talking about what kind of feedback we were getting?
I do. So we got a lot of really great response for both episodes. But I will tell you, one
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of the things I heard over and over and over was, so it felt like you guys left us hanging.
Where are you now? And so you and I have decided to talk a little bit about not just where we
are, but if you were going, if you were going through a life transition, what the next steps
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are to that, to your life now. Yeah. How do you get over that transition and start making
progress forward? Yeah. And you and I very briefly talked about this. And I think there
are so many things that are the same, just maybe in different order. And we're going
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to talk about each thing, and we'll each talk about what order it's in or whatever as we
go along. So the listeners can listen to that and they can find out a little bit more about
not only where we're at, but how to handle a transition after the big trauma, I guess,
is the great word. Yeah. Either, either transition we had was, was a trauma, no matter how you
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look at it. Once again, it was different. I know yours was very unexpected, very sudden.
It was never mine, it brewed over time, I guess I would say. So it was interesting talking
to you just a little bit about what we were going to discuss. And it seemed very similar
and just a few things that was oddly enough different. But yeah. So let's start there.
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I want to start with you because let's start with you have divorce papers in hand. You
just signed divorce papers. You walk out of the courthouse. What was the first thing you
did? Okay. The first thing. So, you know, me being a guy, security is the first thing.
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So I had already been in the middle of finding an apartment, which was a first step, of course,
for me and getting my son situated in the apartment and trying to figure out what furniture
and all that we had. But, you know, along with that, there were many steps along that
way. I jumped into therapy. I'm not sure exactly when you did, but I know I jumped in. I found
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a therapist because I thought, well, I know I'm going to need this going forward if I'm
going to, you know, if I'm going to make myself into a better person, you know, somebody else
would want or someone want. And I know, you know, I had to try and find and establish some
type of a friend group. That I want to dig into as we go through these, but I think that
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maybe we're a little bit different. But that friend group was, it was an odd phase for
me to go through. And then work for me was really one of the third steps. So that's really
all the steps that I could see in the very near future that I had to jump in and figure
out.
And I agree with you. I think, so let's go from, I asked you when you had divorce papers
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in hand. So for me, it was the evening that I sat on the couch after, you know, Rob was
gone and so many people were wanting to stay with me.
And it was that night, not the next day. So I mean, that night. And I remember thinking
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to myself, no, nobody gets to stay with me because this, I will never have another person.
Or I was like, I need to learn to sleep by myself because he and I had been together
since I was 22 years old. So I was very, it was such a sad statement in my head. And
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yet it was, it was something that just the reality of it was there is so weird how when
you were in the depths of grief that you can still be logical. Yeah. And so that was the
first thing, but I'm like you after that initial grief. And after we buried him, first thing
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I did was I found a grief counseling group. So I went to therapy also. So tell me a little
bit about why you went to therapy.
Yeah. So it's so funny because I knew that going forward that I needed to have somebody
help navigate and help me figure out what was what I considered healthy. So I get, I
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just go basically through internet and I start searching for a therapist. And of course, I
don't know if you experienced this, but it can be tough to find a therapist. And you
know, I was lucky. The first one I found I kind of hit it off with, but I'm not going
to say that works for everybody. So you probably do need to kind of research a little better
than I did. But I remember I walked into the therapist's office the first time and he basically
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said, okay, he said, so you're divorced and we just had a small introduction is on. He
said, why are you here? And I said, well, okay, I'm here because I want you to help me figure
out what a healthy relationship is. And just the look on his face, he's like, what I didn't
realize is I was about 20 steps from that. I mean, and the reason I say that I didn't
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start dating for, I mean, honestly, four months, probably after maybe four months, I don't
know after the divorce, but he backed me up, I guess is what I'm saying. And he said, hey,
let's put the brakes on here. You don't just get to jump into healthy relationship. You've
got some work to do along the way. So that's that's how my first session was. Yeah, that
was your main reason for therapy. Absolutely. And we started the Excel chart and we started
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building out all the data for me. It was just great, which is another podcast of itself,
which is one that I will be sleeping through. Sleepy, you'll be as interested as everybody.
I know it's so funny. So that's funny because therapy for me was recommended. And I went
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to grief counseling for, which is my therapy for eight months. And then I transitioned
over to a therapist, a counselor therapist that was an individual. And the first one
was just to get over sadness or learn how to deal with grief because I didn't know how
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to do that. And then the second one was to kind of propel me forward in life. So that's
why I went to counseling. And I would say both of them were immensely helpful. And I'm
still in my with my individual counselor. I really see her. Oh yeah. I didn't know you
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were still doing that. Okay. Yeah, I will. I don't know if I will ever live without her
now, which sounds very codependent, which is something I had to work on. But she has made
me really see things about myself that I didn't realize. So I'm just very thankful. Yeah,
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I should go to a therapist. That is interesting because and it may be because I'm a guy or
analytical, but I mean, I was trying to map out the start to finish whenever I sat down
with him. I'm like, how many sessions are we thinking? It were an hour long? What's
the homework look like? I felt like it was an assignment for me. So I graduated, I felt
like and more than likely he just kicked me out and said, I'm done with you. But after
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about probably five months, maybe six months with him. So did you feel like it was worthwhile
for you? Well, you know, that is a great question. I think I got frustrated along the way. And
once again, I'd never went to therapy, you know, only what you see on TV. And I'm thinking
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they're, they're going to help provide answers to you. You know, and that's, that's not really
what they do. And it makes sense because, you know, they are not the know all of what
you need. They just try to help you figure it out and navigate it. So the first few
sessions, I believe I've probably got a little frustrated because I'm like, okay, what's
the next step? What do I need to do? And he's like, just, just slow down, you know, we're
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talking, we're processing, you're going to figure out next steps, you're going to figure
out next steps. And I'm like, well, I'm going to figure it out. Well, hell, why the hell
am I paying you? I mean, but it's the right way because if you, what he did for me, and
hopefully they did the same for you, they helped you figure out how you can get over
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this stuff by yourself to where you are not meeting them every day, every week, you know
what I mean? They give you the tools to kind of process through a lot of the problems.
Right. Yes. I would agree with that.
So okay, going back to your therapy though, I do have a couple of questions on it. Let's
start with the first one. So how quick after the depth did you jump into therapy?
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I believe it was two weeks. It was the evening that Rob had died. One of my friends came
to me and she said, hey, you know, there's this place you can go there. And I called,
they got me in and it really was, it was a group of widows and widowers. It was both
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and it was just really helpful because I didn't feel alone. Now everybody's story was different,
but I didn't feel alone. And some of them were two years in the process. Some were,
you know, six months. I was obviously the newest that night. And it gives you hope and
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it also gives you, well, and I think I mentioned this, there was a lady who had been in it
for like three years who was still just distraught.
Yes. I remember you talking about that.
Yeah. It gave me a picture of maybe, oh, wow, I don't want to do that because I knew that,
you know, if Rob, if I saw Rob in heaven, he'd be like, what in the hell did you just
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do? You know, so that was the first counseling I went to. And I would recommend that. Well,
I'm gonna say that I've heard so many people say, oh, I went to grief counseling. It was
horrible. All it was was a cry fest. Well, mine was not like that. So it was good. And
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then I transitioned over to an individual therapist because I felt like I had learned
to deal with the ups and downs of grief, the, you know, the waves of it. And I had. I'm
perfectly capable of doing that.
So I've got a question now. And it's right where we're at. So the reason I stopped you,
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you've done group and I know you had said you've done an individual one on one now. Were you
able to be open in that group? Because me, maybe it's just divorce. I don't know I would
have been as open and then I would be comparing myself to other people in the group. Was that
an issue or something with grief or is that just me or the situation I was in?
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Well, I think the leader was really good about defining the terms of counseling. Like you
don't compare grief ever, ever, ever. Each person handles it differently. Each person's
story is different. And I will tell you when you were in, when you were at the, when you
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were just pounded on the bottom of the ocean floor with a wave of grief and you were just,
you know, you can't get up for air, you can't do anything, you've got nothing to lose. So
you're just, there were so many people who would just come in and the best way for me
to say it is grief vomit. And that was okay. You know, you have nothing to lose. You are
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raw in those moments. So there was no comparison. It was, it was a beautiful experience.
Okay. Yeah.
So my regular therapist now has been a beautiful experience because she took me from that
transition point to actually where I'm at now.
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So do you think, and this was my last question for you on therapy, you said you're still
in it. Do you, do you believe you're getting or got what you needed out of it? I mean,
I know where you're at today and you're in an amazing place, probably healthier than
most of the people could be. Do you, do you think you got what you needed? And do you
think you'll, do you think you're still getting stuff to get over grief or has it transitioned
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your therapy into something else? Like maybe, you know, making sure that you're healthy
with Jeff now.
So my, yes, it transitioned from that eight month point into what is my life going to
look like. Now, I guess in after that eight month period, I was sitting there thinking,
okay, the world is my oyster. How am I going to do this? And I say that because in those
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eight months of grief counseling, I always say I microdosed my grief because I worked.
I just threw myself into work.
And that's where we are different and, and we'll explain that soon, but that's where
we're different because you threw yourself into work.
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Yeah. But after that eight months, and we'll talk about the work thing in a second, but
after that eight months, I needed to learn how to possibly date to be alone, to have
my own friendships, to stand up for myself, you know, to not be the meek secondary person
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in a relationship. And so that's where the second, the individual therapy came in play.
And the reason I asked that, I mean, I'm not, not in, not seeing a therapist right now,
but I know you are, I was just wondering, do you, if somebody's listening to this going
through grief, do they, do they believe that there is a spot that they could stop if they
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felt like, you know, or is it something you believe that they need to continue with therapy
for quite a while, five years, six years?
No, I absolutely believe you can stop anytime that you feel like it, or even if you're just
not getting anything out of it.
Sure. Sure.
So yeah.
Okay.
Therapy is a tool to help you. And once it stops helping you, let it go.
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Yeah.
No guilt about it.
That's where mine stopped, to be quite honest. We, we, we did build an Excel sheet together.
I showed it to him and how I was going to rate people and all this, to where I was going
to find this perfect person. And he somewhat thought I was crazy, but he's like, Hey, you've
got a process. It's your process if you like. And so each week we talk through stuff and,
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and it just got to the point for me that I felt like I was going in and just showing
him what I was doing. And I would talk to him, you know, later on, I'm like, okay, so
I've, you know, I've dated this person and this person. And he got to a point that he's
like, I think you're healthy. I think you're doing the right thing. I think you're on the
right track. I, you know, I don't know how much more of this we need. So that's where
mine stopped. Um, but I also know that I felt like, I felt like I was ready for it to stop,
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but I'm like, well, he's a professional, but he's also taken my money. So there was
a point that I was probably going to stop it if he didn't.
Well, and I came in at the end of like, we reconnected towards the end of your therapy,
if I remember correctly, and you were really good. I think you'd learned the ways to cope
with the dating scene and the friendship scene. I think you'd started already learning to
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deal with that on your own. So I think that was a great time for you also to not go.
And that's a great point, you know, getting over divorce may not be what you, all that
you need therapy for. When you've been married for 23 years plus dating before that, of course,
but the same person dating is so much different, getting somebody to help with that. And that's
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why I even kind of, you know, started bouncing stuff off my friends, which we'll get to here
in a second.
Right. So that does transition us into the second area that you and I talked about,
um, after our transition. What was the thing first was therapy second, what establish
in your friend group, you know, at that point, um, you become single, you have somebody pass
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away. I don't know about you, Connie, but I did start relying on my friends a lot more.
Yes, absolutely.
You know, you're looking, Hey, this week, I went, when you look at your calendar, because
honestly, I knew that I wasn't ready to date and find that part, you know, it just wasn't
that transition for me. I, you would look at your calendar and you're like, okay, in
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the next week, I have absolutely nothing planned. You know what I mean? And it freaks
you out a little bit. You're like, I've got to get, I've got to get a social life going
here. I, you know, I have to get friends. So what, what happened with me is I had friends
with my ex-wife, of course, we had a lot of, um, couple friends, but it's not that I left
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them, um, to the side, but I did not, uh, associate as much with them. I start, I started looking
for single friends because in my mind, I'm single now. I need to find people that maybe
I can kind of get hints on how this dating works. So what happened for me is I ended
up, um, um, really running around, um, with individuals that was probably 10 years younger
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than me, which is a whole other set of good things and bad things. I mean, it keeps you
feeling young. Um, you know, you, you get to see a perspective of people that's outside
of your age group a little bit and have been single a little longer, which is great. But
on the other side of that, you know, once again, they were not my age and, and that,
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that only lasts so long until you, you go back to, or for me, it did go and go back to
the original friends that you had. So let's talk about your friends passed away or your
husband passed away. You're in therapy. What type of friends did you kind of attach yourself
to?
Well, that's such a funny, the people that I really, that are still my people now, um,
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that I'm so, so close to were a bunch of ladies that I homeschooled with. We were all, you
know, very good girls. We'll say that. And then every single one of them went through
a divorce. I went through a death and I think we all went, what the hell just happened?
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Isn't life supposed to be different than this? And we bonded over, over trauma, over transition
is what we bonded over. And we were like, fuck this. We want to have fun. We want to
live our lives. We want it to be great. So we would go out dancing was the big thing,
which is so funny because I was always a huge, like I loved to go out dancing all through
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junior high, high school, college, and Rob hated it. So I had stopped. Well, I remember
the night one of the girls said, Hey, we're going to such and such a place. It's a 80s
cover band. We're just going to dance. And we are not like big drinkers. We're not big
crazy partiers, but we love to have fun. And that night was the first night I went, Oh
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my gosh, I forgot this part of me. And I love this part of me. And so that is my group,
like my friend group now, but I still have the friends that I've had in the past. But
you know, when you're in a relationship, the relationship is your main friendship kind
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of thing. And everybody comes secondary. So now actually, I think you have an analogy
about that. Don't you like a bus analogy where there are certain people that come in and
that can you explain that? Because that's a really great analogy.
Yeah. So through my transition and talking to you, it seemed like it was similar, but
a little different, of course, I use the analogy of a bus, a busload of your friends. As you're
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transitioning through whatever life's thrown in front of you, if you're if you're single,
definitely, your your friends change positions, the friends that you were really close to
and maybe you talk to every three days or four days might move a seat or two back in
the bus and somebody moves forward, you know, the person in the driver or in the passenger
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seat was no longer my wife, my ex-wife, of course, it become a different person. But
what I notice is as you're as you're figuring out yourself, and that's the big thing is
you have to figure out who you are, not try to placate everybody else, but figure out
who you are. What happens is later on, these people in the seats start moving the person
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that was in the passenger seat may end up moving to the back of the bus, which isn't
a bad thing. It's just a transition and nobody should feel bad about it. You're still friends
with them. You may talk to them once a month because maybe they got into a relationship
or maybe they've done something. But realize that we I feel like you when you're going
through that transition, people will switch seats in the bus and that, you know, the people
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right behind you talk to every month or every week, you know, one of them may move up and
that's the person that you're seeing and going to dinner with three times a week and, you
know, having every conversation, even me and you, Connie, think about it. When you and
you first got together, you were in that passenger seat. I talked to you probably three times
a day or you would talk to me. Now you're probably one seat back or if you want to be
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in the console, you can, but one seat back. We talk once a day, probably we text each
other of course, or at least we talk a couple of times a week. And it's and the reason is
this is Jeff's in that passenger seat for you, Ellen's in the passenger seat for me.
So nobody should feel bad about it. It's just in my opinion, a natural transition that happens
with your friends. And for me, I had all these very long term friends that were married, that
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moved a seat back. And it's not that I didn't go out and go bowling with them or to a movie,
but I just felt not uncomfortable, but they were friends to my of my wives and of me and
going through a divorce. I thought, are they going to pick sides? Is somebody going to
get pissed at me? Are they going to make a snide comment? Of course, none of them ever
did. But what I did is I found this, you know, these single friends and I'm like, okay, you
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fit in these seats that are closer to me right now. And then I slowly transitioned back to
my, my other friends because they were the, I mean, they're the people that I'm the true
Scott with.
Right, right. And I, I think that analogy is exact. It's so perfect because well, and
here's the difference. I'm sitting there as you were talking, I was like, you know, Rob
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and I didn't do a lot of friend group things together. What we did was we were together
and did a lot of working together. It was our little family group. And when he died,
I didn't really have many friends to rely on. Like there is a group of girls from high
school that were absolute angels to me. And you know, my best friend, she was, she lives
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far away. So they were great, but they are all married. They have their own lives. They
couldn't drop everything. So you're right. Those single girls who had also been through
transition ended up moving to the front of the bus with me. And even now we're kind
of going through different transitions. They were going through different transitions.
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And they've each changed seats, but it's true. It's just like you and I, some of them are
sitting right behind me or in the passenger seat one day, you know, one of them might
go to the back of the bus for a couple of weeks, one of them might come back. So yeah,
that friends were huge for me to find out who I was again.
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And good friends are the ones that are good with changing seats on the bus for you. And
because you do it for them too. I mean, a good friend isn't going to get pissed off at
you because you didn't talk to them for a week. You know, hey, you know, message me
if you need, but I don't have to get with you. You know what I mean? So you do find
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out who your good friends are. And I believe that you build a better group of friends because
of this because I still have the single friends and I'm still friends with them. I just don't
do as many activities that as I used to do with them because now I'm in a, I feel like
I'm in a different phase of my transition, which requires me to need, need that type
of interaction a little bit less.
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Right. I agree with that. So therapy was your first step.
Yes.
Friends was your second step. Same with me.
Yes.
So what's the next thing that you felt like?
This is going to be probably a weird one because of my previous episode that I did, but work.
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Work was my third transition. And for me on work, I heard you, which you'll dig into a
little bit deeper, but you said you absolutely threw yourself into work.
Right.
I did the opposite. I was in a relationship that didn't make sense to me when I was married,
at least in the last.
That's so weird. I'm sorry. I'm interrupting you here.
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No, go ahead.
Because, you know, when we got off the podcast last week, I was so intrigued because men
and women see relationships so differently. Like men are, you know, they're working for
their family where the woman doesn't want them to work as hard. She wants them to be
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home more. And so when you were like, no, I was working, I was working. I understood
because I know you, I understood that that was the love you had for your family.
And yet, and this is so not something for your, this is not saying anything bad about
your ex-wife because I would be your ex-wife. I would be like, hold on one minute. You are
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not working for the family. You're working for you because we want you home. So now,
after the divorce, you say, hold on.
Well, yeah.
I'm transitioning a little in work and I'm not going to work as much.
But think about it. For me, I was single. I got an apartment. I didn't care for the
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apartment, but that'll be later episodes if we so choose to go there. But when I get
these different friends, your friends do help determine work. Let's be honest. I had a single
group of friends at this time that I started to hang out with and tried to figure out what
life was going to look like. So I wanted to go do things, you know, whether it would
(32:35):
be to go to a nightclub or to a concert or to visit another friend three days or whatever
that looked like. So what I found was that I wasn't working till seven or eight o'clock
at night because I was starting to enjoy doing other things than work. And once again, when
I was married, work made sense. Work is ones and zeros. You get praise if you're doing
(32:59):
well. You know, you can see numbers go up and down. And I couldn't figure out my relationship
and how to fix it or make it work in my mind. So I just dove into work. And I did think
it was for everybody and it did benefit everybody. And I still hold to that because today I look
back and I remember thinking that. But whenever it when I got divorced, I felt like very few
(33:21):
people were relying on me at that point. It was just me. So so with it just being me,
once again, my son was living in the apartment. But as long as I kept an apartment, we were
good. I, I, it wasn't necessarily a relief, but I felt like I had this, okay, now I've
got to figure out what's going to make me happy besides work. What is that going to
(33:43):
be? And, and all this is opened up to me now. And I had to figure out what it was going
to look like. So I did, I probably went from, you know, 70% work, 30% free time when I was
married, I probably went to more like 40% work and 60% on my own. I mean, through the
weekends, I didn't work on the weekends. I went and had fun.
Right.
(34:03):
So going back to you and work though, and that's what's interesting. And, but I guess
it does make sense. You just dove into work head first.
I did. I, well, first of all, I think I felt like I needed to prove myself because Rob
and I had always worked together. And when you work with your spouse, a lot of times
(34:24):
the male takes the head or the lead role. So when he died, I didn't want people to think,
oh, she just let everything go to hell. So what I did was I picked up and worked my butt
off, made some crazy good deals, did some really amazing things that I think about.
(34:46):
And again, part of that was when you were in survival mode, your ego goes away. So there
was no ego involved for me. I was just doing what I had to do to, I guess there was ego
involved because I wanted to prove myself. But other than that, there was no ego involved.
(35:07):
I wasn't going out and making deals just to make the deal. I think I felt like I needed
to prove it to other people, but really I needed to prove it to myself that I could do
it alone.
But you know what that sounds like, Timmy County? That sounds like you had, you had
the role that I was in while in my marriage when you were going through this transition.
(35:34):
And you're probably right.
Because it works what makes sense to you. Grief didn't. Work is what kept you occupied
and endorphins and everything else, whatever your reward trigger is. If I remember right,
you grew your net worth two or three times, whatever that was. But that was those, that
was what? Not necessarily making you happy, but those were the achievements that you were
(35:58):
seeing and that's probably what was keeping you going. And mine was the opposite of that.
Yeah. And I think, so in that eight month time period, I went from, we'll say I'm not
going to give exact numbers, but from like a million to over three million in net worth
in eight months. And it was only because I had, it made sense. That's all I could do
(36:25):
is work. And then I would, you know, that would give me a break from grief. It would
allow me to think about something else. And then in the moments of sadness, I was able
to actually take those, which is what therapy taught me. It's okay on those days that you
just can't even get up to take that day and be okay with it. And then I would get up again
(36:50):
and work. Well, I'm now at the point where you were after divorce. And that point is,
you know, I have, and I've been that at that point for the past two years, I guess, maybe
year and a half. But after Jeff and I started dating, I wanted to not work as hard anymore.
(37:12):
It was like the important thing was the relationship I had. And it continues. He and I worked
together, but it continues to be that relationship that is the absolute most important thing
to me.
So not only does friend cycle, as we talked about on the bus, but it's almost like work
(37:32):
does because I'm now back at the point, you know, I work quite a bit now. I travel a ton.
So I think I'm at a happy medium. I don't think I'm overworking, but I don't think that,
you know, it's a I'm only working 40%. I do think it's a happy medium, but I think it
goes in cycles as you're going through this transition.
(37:53):
I think that's exactly because now I'm at the working 40%, but being happy 60% of the
time. And I'm actually at the point now where I'm like, okay, this is getting kind of boring
to let's let's even that out.
Yes. Yes. And that's exactly right. You find out where, because most of us, if you're driven
at all for career, for business, you're going to find that happy medium. Because if you
(38:19):
start seeing that your net worth is not going up, if you see that, you know, at my work,
I'm not achieving what I was achieving, you start wanting that more because you do, you
know, whether once again, whether that's a reward or what, that is, that is what you
need. So for me, I'm in a better place and I already can see you transitioning back up
(38:42):
because you and Jeff are starting to work quite a bit more as far as figuring out what's
next and getting your next investments and all that.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly. So yeah, those and that may be the takeaway from all of this is that there is
that transition, that bus for every part of the transition, you know, whether, whether
(39:06):
it's your friend group, whether it is your work, whether it's therapy, even, you know,
there's always going to be the ins and outs. And you just have to make what's important
in your life. You have to be okay with what's important in that moment. So like for me,
work is not the most important thing right now. I have to be okay with that because eventually
(39:29):
I know it's going to be important again.
Yeah. I completely agree with that. And I think if, you know, if I was going to give
anybody advice going through this is give yourself, give yourself a little bit of wiggle
room as far as if you do start putting your personal life first or vice versa with your
(39:54):
job, you know, as long as you're doing it with within a certain limits, I don't think
it's unhealthy. I think you will find that balance at the end. And I think everybody's
going to work through their transition different. And as long as you're doing something productive
and you're not sitting at home depressed or, or in a state that you, you, you don't function
well, as long as in my opinion, if you're, if you're staying productive and you, and
(40:20):
you feel good and confident about where you're going, I think that's an okay place for anybody.
Yeah. And you know what? So the majority of people who have been through life transitions,
what I want to say to you, or if you're going through one right now is give yourself grace.
That's the first thing. Just give yourself grace, love yourself and know that this hardship
(40:48):
will come to an end. You will eventually come out on the other side. And I don't know anybody
who hasn't come out better actually.
I agree. I mean, I know you, you know, several people that have divorced. I definitely know
some that have had deaths and it seems like everybody, everybody's on a different path
(41:11):
to come out of it. So don't think three months is your, you know, that milestone that after
you make it, it's, it's great. Everybody's different, but as long as you stay productive
and it's so interesting when we watch now, because we talk so much Connie, we see these
people go through transitions and we do see the, the phases to where, well, I can't get
a hold of that person because of work or yeah, they don't talk to them quite as much as I
(41:33):
used to, but you just stay close to them and, and you, you kind of write it out and you
just make sure they're safe. You know, if you're that person that's trying to help them.
Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, that's, that's the advice I would have for somebody and that
is where you and I have kind of talked about where we ended up and how we ended up there.
(41:54):
Um, yeah, maybe, maybe we didn't talk about exactly where we're at. Tell me exactly where
you're at now.
Sure. So, um, I transitioned into a new job, uh, three and a half years ago. I've been
divorced quite a while now. I can't even remember how long. Um, I guess I've been divorced about
five years. Yes. And, um, I transitioned into a different job, a job that allows me to travel
(42:19):
a lot more. I travel internationally, uh, as I stated in the podcast before, you know,
career was a big thing. It still is for me, but I do like that work, work life balance
a little more. Um, I'm dating an amazing woman that is a mere image of me that actually probably,
well, I know it works more than I do. Travels more. I had actually went with, with her to
(42:39):
San Francisco for a week while she was working. Um, I've got an amazing relationship with
my kid. I've bought, you know, a house that I'm redoing, that I'm close to being done
with, and I'm going to sell it and figure out what that next step for me looks like
going forward, but I'm happy. I'm really happy. And if I look back, the only one thing that
(42:59):
I would point out, Connie, that maybe I did wrong in the beginning was I didn't give myself
time to figure myself out before I jumped into a friend group. You know, I jumped in
and I started navigating a, a single friend group and I'm, I, I needed to be more like
them. I needed to be able to stay out till two in the morning and get up at six. I, it
(43:21):
wasn't me, but I think if I was to cautious somebody or caution them, it would be, you
know, make sure that you're true to yourself, to yourself whenever you go through that transition
and allow yourself a little bit of time to figure out who you are. Don't go from one
spectrum to the other.
Yeah. That's a huge one is allow yourself time to figure out who you are because that
(43:41):
I think is what led me to where I am now because I gave myself, it was a year and a half before
I started dating. I was a year and a half. That's when I met Jeff. So about a year before
I started dating. And the only reason I did that is because my individual therapist said
to me, you have to start dating. And I was like, absolutely not. And she was like, yes,
(44:05):
because there were lessons to be learned. And she was amazing at, I want to say walking
me through certain lessons, but she really allowed me through dating, not even dating,
but talking to people online to know my value and my confidence. And so with that a year,
(44:30):
I guess, yeah, about a year after, it would have been longer than a year after Rob died
that I started dating. And then Jeff and I met very quickly and very quickly knew that
we were, I mean, there just wasn't really even any question. It's probably one of the
weirdest things I've ever experienced. But you know, I had worked during that time. I
(44:55):
found out who I was in a, in a work situation without a partner. And yeah, I think the just
finding out who you are is so important. So I, I too went through that. Jeff and I got
married. We have moved to a farm, well, 12 acres in our house. We are constantly, it
(45:24):
feels like redoing homes because we flip houses and we have rentals. So we're always in the
midst of something. And, and then we like to go to the lake on the weekends, but that's
really our life. And I'm so happy with it, you know,
you've done really well. I was fortunate enough to start a pretty close friendship with Connie
(45:52):
right before she started dating. So I know we have to do a podcast soon about dating
at our age because I've got so much to say. Oh my gosh, me too. That's going to have to
probably be a series because listen, we can make sure, well, I can't, I say that we can
really talk about the ins and outs and ups and downs of dating because you have a spreadsheet.
(46:17):
Well, and I had a service that helped me. So yes, we, I can tell you how to screw up dating
pretty good. So maybe that's where in the next few episodes, we'll do that. How's that?
Absolutely. With that, I think that's everything we were going to cover. Yeah. And I appreciate
you sharing your story again. Every time we get on here, I love to hear your story and
(46:41):
your take on it. So thank you so much for sharing. Yeah. And same with you, Connie.
Once again, it's so interesting how two completely different transitions in life, one being death,
one being a divorce. But when you look at the, the path coming out of it, it isn't dissimilar.
It's just has some different nuances to it. Yeah, exactly. So all right, well, I hope
(47:04):
this helps some of you and we will talk to you next week. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Our Life Beyond. We really hope
that you found our discussion insightful and inspiring or at least brought us a smile to
your day. If you did enjoy this episode, please consider subscribing to the podcast on your
(47:24):
favorite platform and leave us a review. For more information, resources or show notes,
visit our website at ourlifebeyond.com. You can also follow us on social media, search
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So feel free to reach out with your questions, comments or suggestions through our contact
(47:46):
us page at ourlifebeyond.com or on social media. And once again, thank you for joining
us on this journey. Till next time, remember life beyond any challenge is possible and
we're here to navigate it with you. Stay strong, stay positive and keep moving forward.
Well, hello, hello, hello. Welcome to Our Life Beyond the podcast where we explore how
(00:12):
to navigate and hopefully thrive through some of life's biggest transitions. I'm your
co-host Scott Dibben and I've teamed up with my great friend and mentor Connie King to
share some stories, strategies, and insights that helped us adapt to the ever-changing
seasons of our life. Whether your life transition is divorce, death of a loved one, switching
(00:34):
careers, moving to a new city, or just trying to figure out what the hell is next, where
with you every step of the way. But always remember, we're not therapists, just fellow
travelers with a knack for finding humor in the chaos, and maybe some untraditional method
of overcoming what life dishes out to us. Hopefully you'll have fun embarking on this
(00:55):
journey. So now let's get started.
I want to give a special thank you to Habit Coffee for sponsoring us. So if you're local
to Springfield, you're probably aware of the miserable construction at Highway 60 and
Farm Road 125 heading into Rogersville. Yeah, right in the midst of all that progress is
(01:17):
the Habit Coffee Company, a fantastic local, vagina-owned business. They're more than
just a coffee shop. They serve delicious scratch-made breakfast and lunch options. They have a state
and county-inspected kitchen, and they love catering events. While it might take a bit
of extra effort to reach them right now, they're excited about the upcoming expansion when the
(01:39):
highway reopens this fall. Support the Habit Coffee Company and enjoy their incredible
offerings today. Thank you so much, Habit Coffee.
Well, hello, Connie. Hey, Scott, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you doing? I'm
doing amazing. Hey, have you heard? Have I heard what? We need to thank our listeners
(02:02):
because we are in the top 25% of podcasts with just two episodes. Well, that's awesome.
I didn't know we were in the top 25. I know I have looked and we continue to get more
every day. Wow, that's awesome. Yeah. Isn't that great? Thank you, everyone, for listening.
I am so thankful and have so much gratitude. So thank you. That makes me so happy.
(02:27):
What's interesting, when you said that, Connie, I just pulled up the map because I was on
the site. Of course you did. Of course, because I'm incredible. Let's give a shout out to
a few people. It looks like we're starting the United States. We've got listeners in
California, which I was in California and I promoted it a little bit last week, as you
know. So hopefully that helped. We've got them in, looks like Portland, many in Texas,
(02:54):
and then the Midwest. We are in the Midwest, so it just looks like a big red dot for the
whole Midwest. Chicago, Detroit, we get down into, yeah, Louisiana, Alabama. We've got
all the Carolines covered. We've got one, looks like one or two, at least, in Virginia.
Yeah, Virginia Beach area. We go all the way up the East Coast with Washington, we New
(03:16):
York into Boston, and even into Maine. And then, if you want to jump across the big pond,
we've got a few, not a lot, but we've got a few in, looks like Belgium. And I show about
half a dozen that's, looks like maybe 200 miles north of Frankfurt, which I do have
(03:40):
some friends over in Amia area, so maybe that's where they're coming from. But we appreciate
everybody. Thank you. Wow. Domestic and international. Thank you guys. Would you have ever thought
that you would have been international for anything, Connie? Probably not. But I will
tell you, I love, you know how I love people anyway, but that makes me so happy to have
(04:01):
friends everywhere. Yeah. So also, with that, I know that we had some feedback, and everybody
loves talking to Connie. So Connie took a lot of that feedback. So do you want to, do
you want to start off by at least talking about what kind of feedback we were getting?
I do. So we got a lot of really great response for both episodes. But I will tell you, one
(04:27):
of the things I heard over and over and over was, so it felt like you guys left us hanging.
Where are you now? And so you and I have decided to talk a little bit about not just where we
are, but if you were going, if you were going through a life transition, what the next steps
(04:50):
are to that, to your life now. Yeah. How do you get over that transition and start making
progress forward? Yeah. And you and I very briefly talked about this. And I think there
are so many things that are the same, just maybe in different order. And we're going
(05:12):
to talk about each thing, and we'll each talk about what order it's in or whatever as we
go along. So the listeners can listen to that and they can find out a little bit more about
not only where we're at, but how to handle a transition after the big trauma, I guess,
is the great word. Yeah. Either, either transition we had was, was a trauma, no matter how you
(05:37):
look at it. Once again, it was different. I know yours was very unexpected, very sudden.
It was never mine, it brewed over time, I guess I would say. So it was interesting talking
to you just a little bit about what we were going to discuss. And it seemed very similar
and just a few things that was oddly enough different. But yeah. So let's start there.
(05:59):
I want to start with you because let's start with you have divorce papers in hand. You
just signed divorce papers. You walk out of the courthouse. What was the first thing you
did? Okay. The first thing. So, you know, me being a guy, security is the first thing.
(06:21):
So I had already been in the middle of finding an apartment, which was a first step, of course,
for me and getting my son situated in the apartment and trying to figure out what furniture
and all that we had. But, you know, along with that, there were many steps along that
way. I jumped into therapy. I'm not sure exactly when you did, but I know I jumped in. I found
(06:43):
a therapist because I thought, well, I know I'm going to need this going forward if I'm
going to, you know, if I'm going to make myself into a better person, you know, somebody else
would want or someone want. And I know, you know, I had to try and find and establish some
type of a friend group. That I want to dig into as we go through these, but I think that
(07:06):
maybe we're a little bit different. But that friend group was, it was an odd phase for
me to go through. And then work for me was really one of the third steps. So that's really
all the steps that I could see in the very near future that I had to jump in and figure
out.
And I agree with you. I think, so let's go from, I asked you when you had divorce papers
(07:33):
in hand. So for me, it was the evening that I sat on the couch after, you know, Rob was
gone and so many people were wanting to stay with me.
And it was that night, not the next day. So I mean, that night. And I remember thinking
(07:57):
to myself, no, nobody gets to stay with me because this, I will never have another person.
Or I was like, I need to learn to sleep by myself because he and I had been together
since I was 22 years old. So I was very, it was such a sad statement in my head. And
(08:23):
yet it was, it was something that just the reality of it was there is so weird how when
you were in the depths of grief that you can still be logical. Yeah. And so that was the
first thing, but I'm like you after that initial grief. And after we buried him, first thing
(08:47):
I did was I found a grief counseling group. So I went to therapy also. So tell me a little
bit about why you went to therapy.
Yeah. So it's so funny because I knew that going forward that I needed to have somebody
help navigate and help me figure out what was what I considered healthy. So I get, I
(09:09):
just go basically through internet and I start searching for a therapist. And of course, I
don't know if you experienced this, but it can be tough to find a therapist. And you
know, I was lucky. The first one I found I kind of hit it off with, but I'm not going
to say that works for everybody. So you probably do need to kind of research a little better
than I did. But I remember I walked into the therapist's office the first time and he basically
(09:34):
said, okay, he said, so you're divorced and we just had a small introduction is on. He
said, why are you here? And I said, well, okay, I'm here because I want you to help me figure
out what a healthy relationship is. And just the look on his face, he's like, what I didn't
realize is I was about 20 steps from that. I mean, and the reason I say that I didn't
(09:57):
start dating for, I mean, honestly, four months, probably after maybe four months, I don't
know after the divorce, but he backed me up, I guess is what I'm saying. And he said, hey,
let's put the brakes on here. You don't just get to jump into healthy relationship. You've
got some work to do along the way. So that's that's how my first session was. Yeah, that
was your main reason for therapy. Absolutely. And we started the Excel chart and we started
(10:21):
building out all the data for me. It was just great, which is another podcast of itself,
which is one that I will be sleeping through. Sleepy, you'll be as interested as everybody.
I know it's so funny. So that's funny because therapy for me was recommended. And I went
(10:42):
to grief counseling for, which is my therapy for eight months. And then I transitioned
over to a therapist, a counselor therapist that was an individual. And the first one
was just to get over sadness or learn how to deal with grief because I didn't know how
(11:04):
to do that. And then the second one was to kind of propel me forward in life. So that's
why I went to counseling. And I would say both of them were immensely helpful. And I'm
still in my with my individual counselor. I really see her. Oh yeah. I didn't know you
(11:28):
were still doing that. Okay. Yeah, I will. I don't know if I will ever live without her
now, which sounds very codependent, which is something I had to work on. But she has made
me really see things about myself that I didn't realize. So I'm just very thankful. Yeah,
(11:49):
I should go to a therapist. That is interesting because and it may be because I'm a guy or
analytical, but I mean, I was trying to map out the start to finish whenever I sat down
with him. I'm like, how many sessions are we thinking? It were an hour long? What's
the homework look like? I felt like it was an assignment for me. So I graduated, I felt
like and more than likely he just kicked me out and said, I'm done with you. But after
(12:12):
about probably five months, maybe six months with him. So did you feel like it was worthwhile
for you? Well, you know, that is a great question. I think I got frustrated along the way. And
once again, I'd never went to therapy, you know, only what you see on TV. And I'm thinking
(12:35):
they're, they're going to help provide answers to you. You know, and that's, that's not really
what they do. And it makes sense because, you know, they are not the know all of what
you need. They just try to help you figure it out and navigate it. So the first few
sessions, I believe I've probably got a little frustrated because I'm like, okay, what's
the next step? What do I need to do? And he's like, just, just slow down, you know, we're
(12:59):
talking, we're processing, you're going to figure out next steps, you're going to figure
out next steps. And I'm like, well, I'm going to figure it out. Well, hell, why the hell
am I paying you? I mean, but it's the right way because if you, what he did for me, and
hopefully they did the same for you, they helped you figure out how you can get over
(13:21):
this stuff by yourself to where you are not meeting them every day, every week, you know
what I mean? They give you the tools to kind of process through a lot of the problems.
Right. Yes. I would agree with that.
So okay, going back to your therapy though, I do have a couple of questions on it. Let's
start with the first one. So how quick after the depth did you jump into therapy?
(13:46):
I believe it was two weeks. It was the evening that Rob had died. One of my friends came
to me and she said, hey, you know, there's this place you can go there. And I called,
they got me in and it really was, it was a group of widows and widowers. It was both
(14:12):
and it was just really helpful because I didn't feel alone. Now everybody's story was different,
but I didn't feel alone. And some of them were two years in the process. Some were,
you know, six months. I was obviously the newest that night. And it gives you hope and
(14:32):
it also gives you, well, and I think I mentioned this, there was a lady who had been in it
for like three years who was still just distraught.
Yes. I remember you talking about that.
Yeah. It gave me a picture of maybe, oh, wow, I don't want to do that because I knew that,
you know, if Rob, if I saw Rob in heaven, he'd be like, what in the hell did you just
(14:57):
do? You know, so that was the first counseling I went to. And I would recommend that. Well,
I'm gonna say that I've heard so many people say, oh, I went to grief counseling. It was
horrible. All it was was a cry fest. Well, mine was not like that. So it was good. And
(15:18):
then I transitioned over to an individual therapist because I felt like I had learned
to deal with the ups and downs of grief, the, you know, the waves of it. And I had. I'm
perfectly capable of doing that.
So I've got a question now. And it's right where we're at. So the reason I stopped you,
(15:40):
you've done group and I know you had said you've done an individual one on one now. Were you
able to be open in that group? Because me, maybe it's just divorce. I don't know I would
have been as open and then I would be comparing myself to other people in the group. Was that
an issue or something with grief or is that just me or the situation I was in?
(16:02):
Well, I think the leader was really good about defining the terms of counseling. Like you
don't compare grief ever, ever, ever. Each person handles it differently. Each person's
story is different. And I will tell you when you were in, when you were at the, when you
(16:23):
were just pounded on the bottom of the ocean floor with a wave of grief and you were just,
you know, you can't get up for air, you can't do anything, you've got nothing to lose. So
you're just, there were so many people who would just come in and the best way for me
to say it is grief vomit. And that was okay. You know, you have nothing to lose. You are
(16:51):
raw in those moments. So there was no comparison. It was, it was a beautiful experience.
Okay. Yeah.
So my regular therapist now has been a beautiful experience because she took me from that
transition point to actually where I'm at now.
(17:12):
So do you think, and this was my last question for you on therapy, you said you're still
in it. Do you, do you believe you're getting or got what you needed out of it? I mean,
I know where you're at today and you're in an amazing place, probably healthier than
most of the people could be. Do you, do you think you got what you needed? And do you
think you'll, do you think you're still getting stuff to get over grief or has it transitioned
(17:37):
your therapy into something else? Like maybe, you know, making sure that you're healthy
with Jeff now.
So my, yes, it transitioned from that eight month point into what is my life going to
look like. Now, I guess in after that eight month period, I was sitting there thinking,
okay, the world is my oyster. How am I going to do this? And I say that because in those
(18:06):
eight months of grief counseling, I always say I microdosed my grief because I worked.
I just threw myself into work.
And that's where we are different and, and we'll explain that soon, but that's where
we're different because you threw yourself into work.
(18:28):
Yeah. But after that eight months, and we'll talk about the work thing in a second, but
after that eight months, I needed to learn how to possibly date to be alone, to have
my own friendships, to stand up for myself, you know, to not be the meek secondary person
(18:53):
in a relationship. And so that's where the second, the individual therapy came in play.
And the reason I asked that, I mean, I'm not, not in, not seeing a therapist right now,
but I know you are, I was just wondering, do you, if somebody's listening to this going
through grief, do they, do they believe that there is a spot that they could stop if they
(19:16):
felt like, you know, or is it something you believe that they need to continue with therapy
for quite a while, five years, six years?
No, I absolutely believe you can stop anytime that you feel like it, or even if you're just
not getting anything out of it.
Sure. Sure.
So yeah.
Okay.
Therapy is a tool to help you. And once it stops helping you, let it go.
(19:40):
Yeah.
No guilt about it.
That's where mine stopped, to be quite honest. We, we, we did build an Excel sheet together.
I showed it to him and how I was going to rate people and all this, to where I was going
to find this perfect person. And he somewhat thought I was crazy, but he's like, Hey, you've
got a process. It's your process if you like. And so each week we talk through stuff and,
(20:02):
and it just got to the point for me that I felt like I was going in and just showing
him what I was doing. And I would talk to him, you know, later on, I'm like, okay, so
I've, you know, I've dated this person and this person. And he got to a point that he's
like, I think you're healthy. I think you're doing the right thing. I think you're on the
right track. I, you know, I don't know how much more of this we need. So that's where
mine stopped. Um, but I also know that I felt like, I felt like I was ready for it to stop,
(20:28):
but I'm like, well, he's a professional, but he's also taken my money. So there was
a point that I was probably going to stop it if he didn't.
Well, and I came in at the end of like, we reconnected towards the end of your therapy,
if I remember correctly, and you were really good. I think you'd learned the ways to cope
with the dating scene and the friendship scene. I think you'd started already learning to
(20:55):
deal with that on your own. So I think that was a great time for you also to not go.
And that's a great point, you know, getting over divorce may not be what you, all that
you need therapy for. When you've been married for 23 years plus dating before that, of course,
but the same person dating is so much different, getting somebody to help with that. And that's
(21:20):
why I even kind of, you know, started bouncing stuff off my friends, which we'll get to here
in a second.
Right. So that does transition us into the second area that you and I talked about,
um, after our transition. What was the thing first was therapy second, what establish
in your friend group, you know, at that point, um, you become single, you have somebody pass
(21:44):
away. I don't know about you, Connie, but I did start relying on my friends a lot more.
Yes, absolutely.
You know, you're looking, Hey, this week, I went, when you look at your calendar, because
honestly, I knew that I wasn't ready to date and find that part, you know, it just wasn't
that transition for me. I, you would look at your calendar and you're like, okay, in
(22:07):
the next week, I have absolutely nothing planned. You know what I mean? And it freaks
you out a little bit. You're like, I've got to get, I've got to get a social life going
here. I, you know, I have to get friends. So what, what happened with me is I had friends
with my ex-wife, of course, we had a lot of, um, couple friends, but it's not that I left
(22:29):
them, um, to the side, but I did not, uh, associate as much with them. I start, I started looking
for single friends because in my mind, I'm single now. I need to find people that maybe
I can kind of get hints on how this dating works. So what happened for me is I ended
up, um, um, really running around, um, with individuals that was probably 10 years younger
(22:53):
than me, which is a whole other set of good things and bad things. I mean, it keeps you
feeling young. Um, you know, you, you get to see a perspective of people that's outside
of your age group a little bit and have been single a little longer, which is great. But
on the other side of that, you know, once again, they were not my age and, and that,
(23:13):
that only lasts so long until you, you go back to, or for me, it did go and go back to
the original friends that you had. So let's talk about your friends passed away or your
husband passed away. You're in therapy. What type of friends did you kind of attach yourself
to?
Well, that's such a funny, the people that I really, that are still my people now, um,
(23:44):
that I'm so, so close to were a bunch of ladies that I homeschooled with. We were all, you
know, very good girls. We'll say that. And then every single one of them went through
a divorce. I went through a death and I think we all went, what the hell just happened?
(24:04):
Isn't life supposed to be different than this? And we bonded over, over trauma, over transition
is what we bonded over. And we were like, fuck this. We want to have fun. We want to
live our lives. We want it to be great. So we would go out dancing was the big thing,
which is so funny because I was always a huge, like I loved to go out dancing all through
(24:31):
junior high, high school, college, and Rob hated it. So I had stopped. Well, I remember
the night one of the girls said, Hey, we're going to such and such a place. It's a 80s
cover band. We're just going to dance. And we are not like big drinkers. We're not big
crazy partiers, but we love to have fun. And that night was the first night I went, Oh
(24:58):
my gosh, I forgot this part of me. And I love this part of me. And so that is my group,
like my friend group now, but I still have the friends that I've had in the past. But
you know, when you're in a relationship, the relationship is your main friendship kind
(25:22):
of thing. And everybody comes secondary. So now actually, I think you have an analogy
about that. Don't you like a bus analogy where there are certain people that come in and
that can you explain that? Because that's a really great analogy.
Yeah. So through my transition and talking to you, it seemed like it was similar, but
a little different, of course, I use the analogy of a bus, a busload of your friends. As you're
(25:47):
transitioning through whatever life's thrown in front of you, if you're if you're single,
definitely, your your friends change positions, the friends that you were really close to
and maybe you talk to every three days or four days might move a seat or two back in
the bus and somebody moves forward, you know, the person in the driver or in the passenger
(26:08):
seat was no longer my wife, my ex-wife, of course, it become a different person. But
what I notice is as you're as you're figuring out yourself, and that's the big thing is
you have to figure out who you are, not try to placate everybody else, but figure out
who you are. What happens is later on, these people in the seats start moving the person
(26:29):
that was in the passenger seat may end up moving to the back of the bus, which isn't
a bad thing. It's just a transition and nobody should feel bad about it. You're still friends
with them. You may talk to them once a month because maybe they got into a relationship
or maybe they've done something. But realize that we I feel like you when you're going
through that transition, people will switch seats in the bus and that, you know, the people
(26:52):
right behind you talk to every month or every week, you know, one of them may move up and
that's the person that you're seeing and going to dinner with three times a week and, you
know, having every conversation, even me and you, Connie, think about it. When you and
you first got together, you were in that passenger seat. I talked to you probably three times
a day or you would talk to me. Now you're probably one seat back or if you want to be
(27:14):
in the console, you can, but one seat back. We talk once a day, probably we text each
other of course, or at least we talk a couple of times a week. And it's and the reason is
this is Jeff's in that passenger seat for you, Ellen's in the passenger seat for me.
So nobody should feel bad about it. It's just in my opinion, a natural transition that happens
with your friends. And for me, I had all these very long term friends that were married, that
(27:39):
moved a seat back. And it's not that I didn't go out and go bowling with them or to a movie,
but I just felt not uncomfortable, but they were friends to my of my wives and of me and
going through a divorce. I thought, are they going to pick sides? Is somebody going to
get pissed at me? Are they going to make a snide comment? Of course, none of them ever
did. But what I did is I found this, you know, these single friends and I'm like, okay, you
(28:01):
fit in these seats that are closer to me right now. And then I slowly transitioned back to
my, my other friends because they were the, I mean, they're the people that I'm the true
Scott with.
Right, right. And I, I think that analogy is exact. It's so perfect because well, and
here's the difference. I'm sitting there as you were talking, I was like, you know, Rob
(28:24):
and I didn't do a lot of friend group things together. What we did was we were together
and did a lot of working together. It was our little family group. And when he died,
I didn't really have many friends to rely on. Like there is a group of girls from high
school that were absolute angels to me. And you know, my best friend, she was, she lives
(28:52):
far away. So they were great, but they are all married. They have their own lives. They
couldn't drop everything. So you're right. Those single girls who had also been through
transition ended up moving to the front of the bus with me. And even now we're kind
of going through different transitions. They were going through different transitions.
(29:17):
And they've each changed seats, but it's true. It's just like you and I, some of them are
sitting right behind me or in the passenger seat one day, you know, one of them might
go to the back of the bus for a couple of weeks, one of them might come back. So yeah,
that friends were huge for me to find out who I was again.
(29:40):
And good friends are the ones that are good with changing seats on the bus for you. And
because you do it for them too. I mean, a good friend isn't going to get pissed off at
you because you didn't talk to them for a week. You know, hey, you know, message me
if you need, but I don't have to get with you. You know what I mean? So you do find
(30:02):
out who your good friends are. And I believe that you build a better group of friends because
of this because I still have the single friends and I'm still friends with them. I just don't
do as many activities that as I used to do with them because now I'm in a, I feel like
I'm in a different phase of my transition, which requires me to need, need that type
of interaction a little bit less.
(30:23):
Right. I agree with that. So therapy was your first step.
Yes.
Friends was your second step. Same with me.
Yes.
So what's the next thing that you felt like?
This is going to be probably a weird one because of my previous episode that I did, but work.
(30:44):
Work was my third transition. And for me on work, I heard you, which you'll dig into a
little bit deeper, but you said you absolutely threw yourself into work.
Right.
I did the opposite. I was in a relationship that didn't make sense to me when I was married,
at least in the last.
That's so weird. I'm sorry. I'm interrupting you here.
(31:06):
No, go ahead.
Because, you know, when we got off the podcast last week, I was so intrigued because men
and women see relationships so differently. Like men are, you know, they're working for
their family where the woman doesn't want them to work as hard. She wants them to be
(31:28):
home more. And so when you were like, no, I was working, I was working. I understood
because I know you, I understood that that was the love you had for your family.
And yet, and this is so not something for your, this is not saying anything bad about
your ex-wife because I would be your ex-wife. I would be like, hold on one minute. You are
(31:52):
not working for the family. You're working for you because we want you home. So now,
after the divorce, you say, hold on.
Well, yeah.
I'm transitioning a little in work and I'm not going to work as much.
But think about it. For me, I was single. I got an apartment. I didn't care for the
(32:13):
apartment, but that'll be later episodes if we so choose to go there. But when I get
these different friends, your friends do help determine work. Let's be honest. I had a single
group of friends at this time that I started to hang out with and tried to figure out what
life was going to look like. So I wanted to go do things, you know, whether it would
(32:35):
be to go to a nightclub or to a concert or to visit another friend three days or whatever
that looked like. So what I found was that I wasn't working till seven or eight o'clock
at night because I was starting to enjoy doing other things than work. And once again, when
I was married, work made sense. Work is ones and zeros. You get praise if you're doing
(32:59):
well. You know, you can see numbers go up and down. And I couldn't figure out my relationship
and how to fix it or make it work in my mind. So I just dove into work. And I did think
it was for everybody and it did benefit everybody. And I still hold to that because today I look
back and I remember thinking that. But whenever it when I got divorced, I felt like very few
(33:21):
people were relying on me at that point. It was just me. So so with it just being me,
once again, my son was living in the apartment. But as long as I kept an apartment, we were
good. I, I, it wasn't necessarily a relief, but I felt like I had this, okay, now I've
got to figure out what's going to make me happy besides work. What is that going to
(33:43):
be? And, and all this is opened up to me now. And I had to figure out what it was going
to look like. So I did, I probably went from, you know, 70% work, 30% free time when I was
married, I probably went to more like 40% work and 60% on my own. I mean, through the
weekends, I didn't work on the weekends. I went and had fun.
Right.
(34:03):
So going back to you and work though, and that's what's interesting. And, but I guess
it does make sense. You just dove into work head first.
I did. I, well, first of all, I think I felt like I needed to prove myself because Rob
and I had always worked together. And when you work with your spouse, a lot of times
(34:24):
the male takes the head or the lead role. So when he died, I didn't want people to think,
oh, she just let everything go to hell. So what I did was I picked up and worked my butt
off, made some crazy good deals, did some really amazing things that I think about.
(34:46):
And again, part of that was when you were in survival mode, your ego goes away. So there
was no ego involved for me. I was just doing what I had to do to, I guess there was ego
involved because I wanted to prove myself. But other than that, there was no ego involved.
(35:07):
I wasn't going out and making deals just to make the deal. I think I felt like I needed
to prove it to other people, but really I needed to prove it to myself that I could do
it alone.
But you know what that sounds like, Timmy County? That sounds like you had, you had
the role that I was in while in my marriage when you were going through this transition.
(35:34):
And you're probably right.
Because it works what makes sense to you. Grief didn't. Work is what kept you occupied
and endorphins and everything else, whatever your reward trigger is. If I remember right,
you grew your net worth two or three times, whatever that was. But that was those, that
was what? Not necessarily making you happy, but those were the achievements that you were
(35:58):
seeing and that's probably what was keeping you going. And mine was the opposite of that.
Yeah. And I think, so in that eight month time period, I went from, we'll say I'm not
going to give exact numbers, but from like a million to over three million in net worth
in eight months. And it was only because I had, it made sense. That's all I could do
(36:25):
is work. And then I would, you know, that would give me a break from grief. It would
allow me to think about something else. And then in the moments of sadness, I was able
to actually take those, which is what therapy taught me. It's okay on those days that you
just can't even get up to take that day and be okay with it. And then I would get up again
(36:50):
and work. Well, I'm now at the point where you were after divorce. And that point is,
you know, I have, and I've been that at that point for the past two years, I guess, maybe
year and a half. But after Jeff and I started dating, I wanted to not work as hard anymore.
(37:12):
It was like the important thing was the relationship I had. And it continues. He and I worked
together, but it continues to be that relationship that is the absolute most important thing
to me.
So not only does friend cycle, as we talked about on the bus, but it's almost like work
(37:32):
does because I'm now back at the point, you know, I work quite a bit now. I travel a ton.
So I think I'm at a happy medium. I don't think I'm overworking, but I don't think that,
you know, it's a I'm only working 40%. I do think it's a happy medium, but I think it
goes in cycles as you're going through this transition.
(37:53):
I think that's exactly because now I'm at the working 40%, but being happy 60% of the
time. And I'm actually at the point now where I'm like, okay, this is getting kind of boring
to let's let's even that out.
Yes. Yes. And that's exactly right. You find out where, because most of us, if you're driven
at all for career, for business, you're going to find that happy medium. Because if you
(38:19):
start seeing that your net worth is not going up, if you see that, you know, at my work,
I'm not achieving what I was achieving, you start wanting that more because you do, you
know, whether once again, whether that's a reward or what, that is, that is what you
need. So for me, I'm in a better place and I already can see you transitioning back up
(38:42):
because you and Jeff are starting to work quite a bit more as far as figuring out what's
next and getting your next investments and all that.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly. So yeah, those and that may be the takeaway from all of this is that there is
that transition, that bus for every part of the transition, you know, whether, whether
(39:06):
it's your friend group, whether it is your work, whether it's therapy, even, you know,
there's always going to be the ins and outs. And you just have to make what's important
in your life. You have to be okay with what's important in that moment. So like for me,
work is not the most important thing right now. I have to be okay with that because eventually
(39:29):
I know it's going to be important again.
Yeah. I completely agree with that. And I think if, you know, if I was going to give
anybody advice going through this is give yourself, give yourself a little bit of wiggle
room as far as if you do start putting your personal life first or vice versa with your
(39:54):
job, you know, as long as you're doing it with within a certain limits, I don't think
it's unhealthy. I think you will find that balance at the end. And I think everybody's
going to work through their transition different. And as long as you're doing something productive
and you're not sitting at home depressed or, or in a state that you, you, you don't function
well, as long as in my opinion, if you're, if you're staying productive and you, and
(40:20):
you feel good and confident about where you're going, I think that's an okay place for anybody.
Yeah. And you know what? So the majority of people who have been through life transitions,
what I want to say to you, or if you're going through one right now is give yourself grace.
That's the first thing. Just give yourself grace, love yourself and know that this hardship
(40:48):
will come to an end. You will eventually come out on the other side. And I don't know anybody
who hasn't come out better actually.
I agree. I mean, I know you, you know, several people that have divorced. I definitely know
some that have had deaths and it seems like everybody, everybody's on a different path
(41:11):
to come out of it. So don't think three months is your, you know, that milestone that after
you make it, it's, it's great. Everybody's different, but as long as you stay productive
and it's so interesting when we watch now, because we talk so much Connie, we see these
people go through transitions and we do see the, the phases to where, well, I can't get
a hold of that person because of work or yeah, they don't talk to them quite as much as I
(41:33):
used to, but you just stay close to them and, and you, you kind of write it out and you
just make sure they're safe. You know, if you're that person that's trying to help them.
Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, that's, that's the advice I would have for somebody and that
is where you and I have kind of talked about where we ended up and how we ended up there.
(41:54):
Um, yeah, maybe, maybe we didn't talk about exactly where we're at. Tell me exactly where
you're at now.
Sure. So, um, I transitioned into a new job, uh, three and a half years ago. I've been
divorced quite a while now. I can't even remember how long. Um, I guess I've been divorced about
five years. Yes. And, um, I transitioned into a different job, a job that allows me to travel
(42:19):
a lot more. I travel internationally, uh, as I stated in the podcast before, you know,
career was a big thing. It still is for me, but I do like that work, work life balance
a little more. Um, I'm dating an amazing woman that is a mere image of me that actually probably,
well, I know it works more than I do. Travels more. I had actually went with, with her to
(42:39):
San Francisco for a week while she was working. Um, I've got an amazing relationship with
my kid. I've bought, you know, a house that I'm redoing, that I'm close to being done
with, and I'm going to sell it and figure out what that next step for me looks like
going forward, but I'm happy. I'm really happy. And if I look back, the only one thing that
(42:59):
I would point out, Connie, that maybe I did wrong in the beginning was I didn't give myself
time to figure myself out before I jumped into a friend group. You know, I jumped in
and I started navigating a, a single friend group and I'm, I, I needed to be more like
them. I needed to be able to stay out till two in the morning and get up at six. I, it
(43:21):
wasn't me, but I think if I was to cautious somebody or caution them, it would be, you
know, make sure that you're true to yourself, to yourself whenever you go through that transition
and allow yourself a little bit of time to figure out who you are. Don't go from one
spectrum to the other.
Yeah. That's a huge one is allow yourself time to figure out who you are because that
(43:41):
I think is what led me to where I am now because I gave myself, it was a year and a half before
I started dating. I was a year and a half. That's when I met Jeff. So about a year before
I started dating. And the only reason I did that is because my individual therapist said
to me, you have to start dating. And I was like, absolutely not. And she was like, yes,
(44:05):
because there were lessons to be learned. And she was amazing at, I want to say walking
me through certain lessons, but she really allowed me through dating, not even dating,
but talking to people online to know my value and my confidence. And so with that a year,
(44:30):
I guess, yeah, about a year after, it would have been longer than a year after Rob died
that I started dating. And then Jeff and I met very quickly and very quickly knew that
we were, I mean, there just wasn't really even any question. It's probably one of the
weirdest things I've ever experienced. But you know, I had worked during that time. I
(44:55):
found out who I was in a, in a work situation without a partner. And yeah, I think the just
finding out who you are is so important. So I, I too went through that. Jeff and I got
married. We have moved to a farm, well, 12 acres in our house. We are constantly, it
(45:24):
feels like redoing homes because we flip houses and we have rentals. So we're always in the
midst of something. And, and then we like to go to the lake on the weekends, but that's
really our life. And I'm so happy with it, you know,
you've done really well. I was fortunate enough to start a pretty close friendship with Connie
(45:52):
right before she started dating. So I know we have to do a podcast soon about dating
at our age because I've got so much to say. Oh my gosh, me too. That's going to have to
probably be a series because listen, we can make sure, well, I can't, I say that we can
really talk about the ins and outs and ups and downs of dating because you have a spreadsheet.
(46:17):
Well, and I had a service that helped me. So yes, we, I can tell you how to screw up dating
pretty good. So maybe that's where in the next few episodes, we'll do that. How's that?
Absolutely. With that, I think that's everything we were going to cover. Yeah. And I appreciate
you sharing your story again. Every time we get on here, I love to hear your story and
(46:41):
your take on it. So thank you so much for sharing. Yeah. And same with you, Connie.
Once again, it's so interesting how two completely different transitions in life, one being death,
one being a divorce. But when you look at the, the path coming out of it, it isn't dissimilar.
It's just has some different nuances to it. Yeah, exactly. So all right, well, I hope
(47:04):
this helps some of you and we will talk to you next week. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Our Life Beyond. We really hope
that you found our discussion insightful and inspiring or at least brought us a smile to
your day. If you did enjoy this episode, please consider subscribing to the podcast on your
(47:24):
favorite platform and leave us a review. For more information, resources or show notes,
visit our website at ourlifebeyond.com. You can also follow us on social media, search
for us on Facebook at our life beyond. We would love to hear from you or our listeners.
So feel free to reach out with your questions, comments or suggestions through our contact
(47:46):
us page at ourlifebeyond.com or on social media. And once again, thank you for joining
us on this journey. Till next time, remember life beyond any challenge is possible and
we're here to navigate it with you. Stay strong, stay positive and keep moving forward.
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