September 3, 2024 • 55 mins
In this compelling episode of Our Life Beyond, hosts Scott Dibben and Connie King welcome Nigel, whose life story is both deeply personal and universally relatable. Nigel’s journey through the complexities of family dynamics, marked by multiple divorces within his family and the challenges of growing up in a strict religious environment, has profoundly shaped his understanding of relationships and his own identity.
From his early years in a small Midwestern town, surrounded by the expectations of a traditional Baptist upbringing, to the emotional turmoil of dealing with five divorces within his immediate family, Nigel opens up about how these experiences influenced his views on love, trust, and self-worth. He also candidly discusses the impact of these challenges on his own personal journey, including his struggle with accepting his sexual identity in an environment that was anything but accepting.
Through all the hardship, Nigel’s story is one of resilience and personal growth. He shares how he navigated these challenges, the importance of support systems, and the powerful lessons he learned about forgiveness, self-acceptance, and the strength it takes to live authentically.
Join us as we explore Nigel’s heartfelt story, offering insights into how we can all learn to navigate the most difficult transitions in life and emerge stronger and more self-aware on the other side.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Well, hello, hello, hello.
(00:09):
Welcome to our Life Beyond the podcast where we explore how to navigate and hopefully thrive
through some of life's biggest transitions.
I'm your co-host Scott Dibben and I've teamed up with my great friend and mentor, Connie
King to share some stories, strategies and insights that helped us adapt to the ever-changing
seasons of our life.
(00:30):
Whether your life transition is divorce, death of a loved one, switching careers, moving
to a new city or just trying to figure out what the hell is next, we're with you every
step of the way.
But always remember, we're not therapists, just fellow travelers with a knack for finding
humor in the chaos and maybe some untraditional method of overcoming what life dishes out
(00:51):
to us.
Hopefully you'll have fun embarking on this journey.
So now let's get started.
I want to give a special thank you to Habit Coffee for sponsoring us.
So if you're local to Springfield, you're probably aware of the miserable construction
at Highway 60 and Farm Road 125 heading into Rogersville.
(01:14):
Yeah, right in the midst of all that progress is the Habit Coffee Company, a fantastic local
vagina-owned business.
They're more than just a coffee shop, they serve delicious scratch-made breakfast and
lunch options, they have a state and county inspected kitchen, and they love catering
events.
While it might take a bit of extra effort to reach them right now, they're excited
(01:37):
about the upcoming expansion when the highway reopens this fall.
Support the Habit Coffee Company and enjoy their incredible offerings today.
Thank you so much, Habit Coffee.
Hello, Connie.
Hello, Scott.
How are you?
I'm doing well.
How about yourself?
I am great.
I am very excited about our next guest.
(02:00):
I think I say that about each of our guests, though.
We have some amazing guests, though.
We really have.
So tell me about this one.
Yeah, let me tell you.
Our guest today is Nigel.
His journey is both unique and deeply relatable.
Looking up, Nigel navigated the challenges of five divorces within his family.
(02:23):
And that's a reality that profoundly impacted his childhood and shaped his understanding
of relationships.
So in this heartfelt conversation, Nigel opens up about how these experiences influenced
his perspective on life and relationships and how he worked through the emotional terrain
of his past.
(02:43):
But beyond the trials, Nigel also shares a touching tribute to his mother and the way
he honors her through his personal growth and resilience.
His story is one of overcoming adversity, finding strength in the midst of change, and
celebrating the bonds that remain steadfast.
I am so excited to hear his story.
(03:04):
So without further ado, let's talk to Nigel.
Well, hello, Nigel.
How are you today?
Oh, I'm doing great, Scott.
How are you doing today?
I'm doing great.
I want to go ahead.
Nigel?
Oh, yeah.
Connie's on here too, Nigel, just so you know.
Oh, the co-host?
Yeah.
So I wanted to introduce just in the beginning.
(03:27):
So I've got a personal relationship with Nigel because he's my son's partner.
So I know a lot of the story that he may talk through or some of it, not all of it.
But I'm telling you right now, it's an amazing story.
He's got a great family and I look forward to people hearing this.
So Nigel, what do you think?
(03:48):
Do you want to start off maybe at like your biological mom and dad, where you were at
and that and how you felt about it?
Oh, yeah, sure.
So I much like how I've heard you refer on this podcast.
I was also born in a Midwest town in the middle of the United States, just nondescript.
(04:11):
I grew up pretty poor farmer background, Baptist background.
My grandparents were missionaries, both sets of them.
My mother grew up in Central America.
My father grew up in Mexico.
They spent most of their like their parents spent most of their life like in service.
So they grew up basically like from five years old, like in those countries almost all the
(04:37):
way through high school.
So their whole life that they knew was dedicated to like Christian service.
They met that way.
Their families were in the same convention.
And so they connected a lot on the mission field.
And I just kind of feel like the way that they told me and again, just my perspective
and how I remember things, I just kind of feel like it was expected.
(05:02):
Like it just was kind of like made sense.
Like this is what you do.
You get married.
You know, you have a family.
And so they tend to do that pretty young.
So my parents, I think, were married probably 19 or 20.
Okay, wow.
And they had me, I think when my mom was 21, 22 ish.
(05:25):
But I don't know, I think that just being married, feeling like this is what you're
supposed to do, and just following through the motions, it didn't really play out how
they wanted to.
And so they ended up divorcing before I even really have any memory.
Like I've get these little snippets, my sister, she's two years older than me.
(05:46):
She remembers just a little bit more.
But quite honestly, I don't like I don't remember that part.
And so after that, which I think I start remembering my mom dating my second or my first stepdad
in.
(06:06):
I'm just going to drop names because I don't think they're ever going to listen to this.
But Ron, so Ron was the first one they married pretty early on as well.
Of course, we moved to another small town.
And things were all right.
Go ahead.
How old were you at that time, Nigel?
(06:27):
So I might have been in like pre-k.
Oh, wow.
Okay, so you were really young.
Right.
Because they weren't married and we moved into a house and my was I didn't go to school
at that point.
So yeah.
Okay.
So Ron.
(06:48):
Oh, yeah.
So Ron, at some point, for whatever reason, joins the military.
And we ended up moving to Texas.
And we were on an army base there.
And I actually kind of like that because like I had relationship with my father still like
(07:08):
I have a relationship with my father clear until high school.
And you know, it was nice because he would come visit us.
Like while we were still in Missouri, but when we moved to Texas, I really didn't get
to see him as much.
Where I used to be able to see him like once a month or so I just kind of be a year or
so before I'd see him.
(07:30):
And I always kind of like knew that like Ron wasn't necessarily like my dad.
And it never quite felt like that I felt like.
And the common theme throughout the rest of this is like they had their interests, the
things that they wanted me to learn like he was always working on a truck and my my mom
and him would ask me to come sit outside and I'd sit next to a truck and hand them a wrench
(07:54):
or hand them something and I was never paying attention.
So I've never really felt like I got along or understood him and that he understood me
because once he joined the military, he kind of developed like that militant attitude.
So you know, things needed to be a certain way.
But I liked I did kind of not mind that part because he was often deployed.
(08:16):
So we just lived, you know, in this duplex and.
He was never there.
So I mean, it was just me and my mom and my sister.
So it's crazy because for the rest of the story as well, it's just like it feels like
she was always married.
But yeah, I always felt like I had a single mother.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
(08:37):
But yeah, I just I just always felt it was like me, my mom, my sister against the world.
So he yeah.
So we were in Texas and then we moved back to Missouri.
We were we moved to. Yeah, it doesn't drop one, but.
(08:58):
He had left the military at that point.
And we were getting ready to move back to Texas and he moved to Houston to go find the
house and whatever.
And so I guess while he was there, he bought a house and a truck and got a girlfriend.
Oh, wow.
And I was at school and my mom came and picked me up.
(09:23):
And I remember them calling me out, like calling me.
And I was just like, well, I'm not sick and I'm not allowed to like leave school unless
I'm sick.
And you know, like it was really strange because I'm like, no one's dead.
And so we drove from drop one back to my like I would say my hometown per se, but my hometown.
(09:45):
And they sat me down with my grandparents and they were like.
You know, Ron.
Ron doesn't want to be a part of the picture anymore.
He isn't coming back from Texas and we're not going there.
And so we stayed in my hometown for a while and then we moved to closer to Springfield
(10:10):
Republic.
And then she met Nathan and Nathan, she met at church.
She was, you know, that was important to her.
She wanted I think that the I think Ron, the start wasn't necessarily based in the church.
(10:31):
So I think after that, she really wanted to try to like make good choices and raise us
because like I said, we were heavily, heavily invested in the Baptist community and the
Baptist faith.
So I think that she really was trying to find like good quality in a person and really rely
like find them in church like you're supposed to, because then you can trust them and you
(10:53):
know they're good.
Allegedly.
So ideally.
So she met Nathan and I remember being really excited because he lived in a really big house
in Springfield and they had cable and air conditioning.
I just remember being so excited because he had all this technology.
(11:13):
He seemed really cool.
But you know, I could again tell like he was more and probably interested in my mother
than having like a family.
And my mom has recently said that, like in the past was just like, yeah, he thought that
he knew what it was like to be a father because his sister had children and he had been an
(11:34):
uncle.
Okay.
And so he wasn't necessarily prepared for like kids who don't behave or you know, kids
who are going through puberty and having hormones and yeah.
And so, oh, go ahead.
No, I was just kind of, I even forgot to ask.
So did Ron have any of his own kids on the first marriage?
(11:56):
No.
No.
Okay.
And Nathan didn't have any of his own kids the second one.
Okay.
No.
And, oh, going back to Ron really quick.
I didn't know really that they were having problems, but I did remember one time hearing
(12:17):
them fight.
And I remember being really confused by it because I had never heard anybody fight before.
And so I didn't really understand what it was, you know?
Yeah.
And my mom later on really apologized like in my 20s, she was like, oh my gosh, I never
knew that you could hear that.
(12:39):
Like I never wanted you to hear that.
And so I had never seen anyone fight before.
And so whenever mom was with Nathan and they got married and so instead of moving to Springfield
or a bigger city, they moved us back into Crane because they thought that we'd be safer
(13:02):
there.
Like as kids, he was worried that we'd get into like drugs and whatever.
So they moved us to a small town in Stone County as to avoid getting into drugs.
But we did not, I mean, it was fine.
I also feel like that wasn't necessarily a great move just because it was so isolating
and in a smaller town.
And at that point, that's when I started realizing that I might not be straight.
(13:26):
Okay.
And at what age was that?
Probably I think I started having an idea about it in like sixth and seventh grade.
Okay.
I had a crush on the neighbor.
So we moved back to Crane and we just kind of settled into it.
(13:48):
But I like again, like once again, I had a father like a stepfather who is taking me
to Bass Pro and fitting me up for hunting gear and taking me out into the woods to go
like turkey hunting.
And I don't like to sit still and I don't like to be quiet and I have a circulatory
(14:08):
disorder or circulatory disorder and I don't like getting cold.
And so that was just my own personal hell.
But no, he never really asked me like what I was into.
And so, you know, he would buy video games that felt like he was just buying video games
that he wanted and was just always trying to project.
(14:29):
I remember at one point I was singing some Dolly Parton just because I'm a woman, which
honestly is just Dolly Parton and it had nothing to do with a reflection of myself.
But I feel like he was so afraid and kind of like noticing all these behaviors about
me and didn't like it that he got so pissed one day that I was singing that song.
(14:49):
He's like, well, why would you sing this song?
Like why would you sing this?
And I'm like, I'm a I'm just a teenager.
I'm just singing a song.
It's catchy.
Like I'm not thinking too much about it.
Yeah.
And so I'm just picking up these little bitty things like that.
I'm like, OK, this isn't OK.
(15:11):
And so at the same time that this is happening, my dad, who was single and had it really dated,
he remarried and she had a kid.
And I had my sister and I had a room at my dad's house.
But when we moved, he moved in with his new wife and her kid.
(15:33):
She had boxed up all of our things and told us to take it home.
That we had a room at our mother's house and that this was now her son's room.
And it wasn't fair that we should have two rooms when he only gets one.
Oh, wow.
And it was made very, very clear that she had found her son a father and where at this
(15:57):
point I used to love going to my dad's house.
Like I felt like he was so cool.
He was like my best friend, which is really like in retrospect, my mom was doing the work.
My mom was, you know, taking care of us.
And he, you know, of course, got us on the weekends and he was an over the road trucker
and he made money.
(16:17):
And so he was able to buy the things that my mom couldn't.
And I honestly feel like I always recognize that.
I don't ever I never felt like my mom didn't provide or that it wasn't good enough.
I did like going to my dad's house.
It was fun, but I never really was just like, why can't you do this for me?
He does this for me.
(16:37):
And so I really felt like that she's always done a good job of making me feel safe.
And so when he remarried, he became like a different person.
Like he seemed really tired all the time.
He seemed really closed off.
(16:58):
I would ask him if we could hang out like without, you know, this my brother, my new
brother, my stepbrother and his wife.
And it would never happen.
He couldn't.
He just would never do it.
And so finally I started asking him because we would go every other weekend.
He'd come to Crane and pick us up.
And I finally was just like, if I could just have the ride from Crane to Springfield with
(17:19):
you, if I could just have that.
And he always brought his wife.
So you never really had any alone time with your dad at that point on.
And I would never again.
Was there any shared hobbies with your dad?
Yeah.
Yeah.
We he, you know, bought me a game like he played.
(17:41):
He had a Gameboy of his own.
An original one.
I remember playing this racing game that featured a race car driver, Nigel Mansell.
And I always got a kick out of the fact that the race car driver was my name.
We played like Mario together.
We would stay up really, really late playing Super Nintendo, working on the levels together.
Like, you know, we would go see movies.
(18:04):
And like my sister was right there.
Like she was right there in it.
Like we'd go to Whitewater.
Like we were hanging out.
We were doing things.
He, you know, asked me about the stuff I liked.
Like, you know, he knew that I was really into like orangutans and apes.
So he like, you know, would get things and like a lot of it was gifts.
I'm not gonna lie.
He didn't have a lot of time with us.
So I feel like he just.
(18:26):
That was his way.
But it did always feel like it was something that I was interested in.
Like he took us to the zoo so I could look at the orangutans.
I was just really obsessed with apes, like really obsessed.
Hyper focused except.
But yeah.
And like I said, it was just a 180 change of personality.
(18:47):
And so I don't have that family support there.
And then my mom's marriage started going a little bit weird with Nathan.
He just started getting angrier and more closed off.
He ended up building.
Like he turned the garage into a den and like put in surround sound and started spending
all this money on like technology and TVs.
(19:10):
And up until this point, my mom, we never had a TV.
And he started getting more and more upset with me.
And I never really could understand what like why I was in trouble.
One day he was upset that I was taking too many showers.
And I guess I was I was halfway through a shower, all lathered up.
And he somehow I don't know if it was the access underneath the sink, but he cut the
(19:34):
water off and I came out tallying off.
I was like something's wrong with the water.
And he just went in like you're wasting utilities and you're doing this and like you're not
thinking about it.
And you know, you're being so disrespectful and you never think of anyone else.
You're so selfish.
And I started at this point.
(19:56):
This is probably the part that's toughest, because again, like I love my mother and it
all ends up fine.
But at this point, it felt like she couldn't defend me.
And so I was just kind of I think everybody was starting to emotionally check out like
you like the whole house.
Everybody was just going into this like robot state.
(20:20):
I was just kind of doing I think there's this term called fawning, which is just like looking
ahead to see the problems and just like working your ass off to not create problems because
you're so scared of getting in trouble.
My mom decided that she couldn't take it.
And she decided to join the army.
Okay, I remember that she I remember her talking about going to the army.
(20:42):
So that was that was after after Nathan and it was during Nathan.
Okay.
So you were probably in about the seventh grade then?
Yeah.
Well, I think I was mid high school.
I think I was.
Okay, why?
Because we moved again.
Like we I've got there about halfway through sixth grade.
(21:03):
And so at this point, I've been switching schools about halfway through every year.
But yeah, so about this time and the the order is a little bit fuzzy, but it all happened
so quick about the same time.
But I finally was ready to admit and tell my parents that I was gay.
(21:25):
And so I called my mom and I made her come home.
And she gets there and I sit down and I probably talked for about 30 minutes about, you know,
there's this feeling inside and I don't know what it is.
And God says this and I don't know.
And I just feel so bad.
And I don't and my mom's finally like, you just need to say what it is.
And I told her I was gay and she started crying.
(21:47):
I might cry right now, too.
But she started crying.
And she said to me, I thought you were going to tell me you were on drugs.
But now that you've told me you're gay, I only wish that you were on drugs, because
at least there's rehab for that.
Oh, wow.
(22:08):
Which is kind of progressive a little bit in the time it took.
It hurt really bad right then.
But looking back, it kind of feels OK, because at least she was saying that it wasn't necessarily
a choice and that she knew that there was no fix for it.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
You know, growing up in a Baptist, especially I think if I remember right, it's pretty you
(22:31):
were your family was pretty strict.
Yeah, we were like fundamental independent.
So it was very much like rules, rules, rules and like hyper rules.
Like, like, don't play cards in public.
Even if you're just playing solitary goldfish, you don't want people to think you're gambling.
So don't play cards.
(22:52):
Like you have to look to see if other people might perceive you as doing something wrong.
So yeah, pretty strict.
So was Nathan in that conversation, too?
Well, hell no.
Hell no.
I was terrified.
She starts saying, your grandma's not going to accept this and Nathan is not going to
(23:14):
accept this.
We might have to move.
We might have to get an apartment.
We might have to leave.
And in that moment, I was I was I did recognize and I was really grateful that she chose me.
Yeah, absolutely.
She offered.
She said, do you want help?
Because she had been recently painting someone's house that worked in the church that we were
(23:38):
going to.
And there's the couple special like ministry was that they worked with gay people and trying
to lead them out of gayness and back into Christ.
And so she said that they had a class and that I could go to it and she would take me.
And it was like two hours every Thursday for about 16 weeks.
(23:58):
Thank God it wasn't like conversion therapy.
It's just more of like a class full of people with general problems.
Later on, my mom would tell me that she didn't want to take me to anything more specific
because she was worried that it would be too harsh.
So yet again, like even though we're working through the steps of like what we have in
(24:19):
our toolbox and that's the way that I really reframe it is.
My mom had a certain set of tools and a certain understanding and she was single a lot or
trying to find probably what she might have thought like the complete household, the way
(24:40):
that it was supposed to look.
And so I think with the tools that she had and the understanding the place where she
was at in life that she was doing her best.
And so I was grateful that she went with me and she sat in the classes with me.
And so I think it was about two weeks after these classes ended.
(25:06):
I was in Springfield and went on a date for the first time with a guy and yeah, ended
up experiencing my first kiss there, which was horrifying.
I was like, I'm going to hell now.
But it was just so funny because I was like, I want this to work out so bad.
And I remember that I got up at the last class and I stood up and I said, I just want to
(25:32):
let everyone know I'm here because I had kept it secret the whole time.
I'm here because I've been experiencing these feelings of homosexuality and like a gay attraction
and that I know that I can't help how I feel, but I can decide what my actions are.
(25:55):
And so if Christ gave his all for me, then I should be able to give my all for him and
I just won't act on them ever.
And then I wiped away a tear and the foundation that I was wearing wiped off in my napkin.
Which is also a big confusion.
(26:17):
I walked in because my friends were wearing makeup and I had a car and I was able to drive
to Springfield and hang out with these progressive punk kids and I was just this little quiet
weirdo but the girls I was with, they were putting makeup on me and I was just vibing
with that.
(26:38):
I came home one day with eyeliner on and my mom was just like, hey, you really need to
take that off because if your stepdad sees that he won't understand and I know it's
probably just like a thing that you're doing with your friends and it's fun, whatever,
but people might get the wrong impression.
And so once again, this theme of like, don't be yourself, people won't like you, push it
(27:02):
down, be acceptable, do what you're supposed to.
So that was all happening and then that class happened and then yeah, I just started going,
I just went for it and I moved out.
My mom wants the kids are out.
So I guess it happened afterwards.
(27:23):
She, there was a moment where the military needed doctors, but they didn't want doctors
right out of school and they didn't want old ass doctors.
So they raised the limit of the age and my mom to get out of her marriage because when
I tell you that he was spending all this money on other stuff, he would come home, there'd
be McDonald's wrappers in the foot, like the floorboard of his truck where he'd eaten
(27:47):
dinner on the way home and then wasn't giving money for groceries.
And my mom, you know, she didn't have a job at that point.
And so she worked in the flea market that my grandma owned and she'd be like, hey, if
you're hungry for dinner or breakfast, I've got some food at the shop and so you can come
there and but I guess at one point he was yelling at her and he said, well, no wonder
(28:09):
you have a kid who's gay when you he they have a mother like you.
And so I think that really like I can't imagine what that sorry if I'm crying a little bit,
but I can't imagine what that treatment was like for her.
And she had to suffer it alone since the age limit went up.
(28:29):
She was able then to join the military.
And so she went there and while she was in Iraq, she went to boot camp, AIT went to Iraq,
was there and somewhere in the middle of that, she found out something that he had done,
which was like a major, major betrayal of trust in something that she had at the very
(28:53):
beginning put on the line and said that this is not okay.
And found out that he had done that and that was her that was her like to get out because
again, she is this, you know, Baptist woman and you're not really allowed to just get
a divorce.
Yeah, like the Bible only makes room for like a couple things where it's just like if your
husband's not providing if he's beating you if he's cheating.
(29:14):
So she divorced him.
And at that time you had moved out though, and she was overseas.
So she had like a deployment over there that she had to do.
Uh huh.
Yeah.
Oh, and the part I missed that was kind of big was I was living in Springfield, they
asked me to come down to crane and babysit their dog.
(29:39):
And the Oh, sorry, as I piece this together, and I remember things, it all comes back.
I don't tend to think about this a lot, but the day that I called my mom, the catalyst
was I was sitting in the kitchen.
And I remember Amy Winehouse's Wake Up Alone was playing.
(30:05):
And you know, like when the light ray comes through the window, and you can see like the
dust particles like because you can see the beam of light, I was staying in the kitchen.
And I was holding, I was chopping up apples for a snack and I was holding a knife.
And I just thought from like this moment, if I went right now, if I just ended it now,
(30:25):
I wouldn't have to tell anybody and they wouldn't have to be embarrassed.
Oh, wow.
I can't believe you had that thought in your head.
Yeah, I thought, I can't fix this.
I have prayed and I have prayed.
And I was so frustrated because I cried myself to sleep every night wanting to know what
(30:48):
I had done, why this was happening.
Clearly all these male figures in my life were just, I wasn't like them.
And they always seem to be so mad at me for it, for like existing.
So I was just like, what if I didn't?
Because if I tell them, I'll lose everybody.
(31:08):
And so if I'm going to lose everybody, I may as well go this way so that way they won't
have to know and they won't be upset and they won't have to think about me that way.
But I can't.
I'm grateful that I just can't, couldn't bring myself to do it.
Self harm is not necessarily something that I guess I have in me like that.
(31:29):
But because I came right up to the edge and I peered over and just something said no.
So I didn't call my mom.
That's why I told her.
So flash forward, she's going to be deployed and he's driving her to the airport and they
want me to stay in Cranham and babysit the dog.
And I'm staying in the kitchen making some dinner and I don't really know how it happened.
(31:52):
But that song came back on and the light hit just right and I freaked out.
I panicked.
I hopped in the car.
I drove back to Springfield.
I found my roommate.
I was like, hey, I'm in a weird place right now.
Like I'm not necessarily a danger to myself, but like I don't know how that situation so
perfectly recreated itself.
(32:14):
But it was so upsetting.
I just left.
And so I called them about something because I needed something to know something and they
found out that I wasn't where I was supposed to be.
I wasn't in Cranham anymore.
And my mom had gotten on an airplane and I wasn't I wouldn't be able to speak to her
(32:35):
probably for the next six months to a year because she was in boot camp and AIT.
They can't call you during that time.
And so he said to me, well, why aren't you there?
And I couldn't explain it to him.
Yeah, like I couldn't.
And so I lied.
I said I was supposed to be at work.
He's like, well, you called me during this time you weren't at work.
(32:58):
He said your mom, when she found out that you lied to her, something in her eyes died
and she will never be able to look at you the same.
And basically basically told me that my mom didn't love me anymore.
And all I knew is that's what he said.
Was that a manipulation technique on his part to make you feel bad for not doing what he
(33:20):
wanted you to be doing?
Do you think that now?
Okay.
I mean, absolutely.
I also think that he was just really cruel.
Okay.
Your mom was taking a lot on at that time.
If you think about it, relationships weren't working.
Of course, she was probably getting pressured by her family because of the Baptist.
And my grandparents loved him.
(33:43):
Finally my mother, we were able to talk and you know, it just wasn't the same.
Like I had it in my head that she didn't love me anymore.
And we hadn't talked for so long.
And so she got out of the military.
And no, no, no.
(34:04):
Yeah, she got out.
She came back from Iraq and she got put into Fort Worth, Texas, which is where the army
base where we lived with Ron.
And my mom had some trouble with the paperwork.
And so she contacted Ron, they started talking.
And the next thing I know, they're getting married again.
(34:25):
Okay.
So, so number two and number four were the same person.
Yes.
And so at this point, I'm just like what is happening, you know, like I am, I've already
started building my own life.
But you know, I'm just heavily drinking.
(34:49):
I am in and out of bars.
I am not going quite to work where I'm supposed to.
I'm living couch to couch.
I had enrolled in cosmetology school at this point.
I just very gratefully was able to pay for it with student loans.
And you know, like having the hardest times establishing relationships.
(35:15):
Is that because of the experience you'd had with Nathan or was it the whole thing?
Okay.
I had never seen a successful relationship.
I had never seen a happy relationship.
I'd never seen a healthy relationship, even with my dad and his wife.
I mean, at one point, shoot, his wife was so controlling.
At one point, I said to my dad and like at this, like that marriage, we're no longer
(35:41):
getting like Christmas presents.
We're getting like stockings, like candy, but just a Walmart sack of candy and some
stuff and some trinkets in there, you know, because we're no longer really going to a
house.
My mom finally said, you don't have to go anymore if you don't want to.
And because we were coming, I would come home crying every time because you know, I just,
(36:03):
she was just always just this person and you know, and even while it was with Nathan, people
like would describe her as like, you know, evil stepmother.
And then Nathan, my friends just called him my landlord.
Like, you know, and so here she is married to this person again.
(36:24):
And I'm like, I don't really understand it.
And so yeah, I just was working my way through life.
Did you, did you give him another chance at that point or were you, I mean, over it?
I was so emotionally turned off from the whole situation.
It didn't make any sense.
(36:45):
I didn't have a close relationship with my mom.
I just, I didn't like it.
You know, but it was just like such a disassociation and such like an emotionally dead time for
me.
Like, you know, I was in hair school, I was eating a pack of ramen a day.
I barely could get employment.
(37:06):
I didn't have a car.
I was walking to school.
I was walking to work.
Like, you know, I would get tips in school.
And so like on the weekend, I might be able to afford a cheeseburger at McDonald's.
And that was like the splurge that made me feel like a human being.
So like I had problems of my own.
Yeah.
Like she's, I was like, you're making your problems.
(37:26):
You're doing your own thing.
I like, I don't really know what to do about this.
I have my grandparents coming to visit me in Springfield and they're telling me that
I'm selfish and self centered and that like I'll die before 50 because sin will wreck
my body and that I'm selfish.
I'll never know true love and what real love is because there's no real love outside of
(37:48):
Christ.
And if I even ran into a burning building building to save a baby, it would be a selfish
act.
Good Lord.
So like, I'm having like a struggle at this point.
And you know, she was with him for a couple years, but he pretty he showed us true colors
(38:10):
pretty quickly and she divorced him as well.
She stayed with him for quite a while, like quite a bit longer than she really wanted
to because she's like, I've just divorced so many times.
Yeah.
You know, I can't like I have to make sure that I'm really doing this and trying everything.
And so she really did try hard to make it work.
But ultimately, like it wasn't going to.
(38:34):
She had always had to restart her life every single time.
She was she never took anything.
She never fought for money.
Even when my father wasn't paying child support, she did not go after him.
So you know, I just yeah, I just I just had these.
Yeah, I just had a hard time with that.
(38:57):
A lot of people failed you.
So a lot of people made you feel not important.
It sounds like like you weren't the priority.
Yeah.
I asked my grandmother like right before I went to school because she was a Bible doctorate.
She taught at a college and I said, hey, I would really like to go to school.
I just need help cosigning on some loans.
(39:19):
And she said, why would I do that?
And I said, well, don't I mean, don't you even respect the fact that I'm trying to get
an education?
And she said.
And she said, respect you.
Why would I?
She said, I would sign a car like I would cosign on a car because if you defaulted on
the loan, I could sell the car and get my money back.
I would cosign on a house for you because if you defaulted, I could sell the house and
(39:43):
get my money back.
She's like, but if I cosign on your education, you default.
Like that's just a bad investment on my part.
Wow.
So that happened.
You know, it's just like that happened.
So, so Ron, your mom had divorced Ron and is that the last person that she was with
(40:06):
until she got married this time?
No, we're out.
We have one more.
Oh, OK.
And so she.
I had.
I had a.
I also had a really tragic dating life.
I've had at that point, I think I was on my second boyfriend and we had broken up.
(40:32):
And so my mom.
Can't like.
Flew me to Texas and we both celebrated and commiserated our.
Our breakups and divorces together for about a week.
And then I came home.
And then she met Phil.
(40:53):
So that marriage lasted for a while and.
Again like things started coming up and he wanted more out of my mom than my mom was
able to give.
And I get this phone call and I end up spending an hour and a half at this party in a.
(41:14):
Bare bedroom crying on the phone with my mother because she's once again getting a divorce.
And it's just like it's just so defeating, you know, because once again, it's just like
I kind of like I always got my hopes up for her.
Because I so desperately wanted her to be happy.
She said, first and foremost, I love you very much.
I don't think I've ever really shown you a great example.
(41:38):
Of what love looks like and what relationships can be or should be.
She said, I've tried my hardest to like find men in the right way.
You know, and she's like, I just don't know what that would be.
She's like, I just all I want for you is to be happy.
All I want for you is to be safe.
All I want for you is to be loved.
(41:59):
And she's like, and if that's a man.
Then that's what I want for you.
So if you'll come here, she's like, I've got you.
I love you and it'll be OK.
And she's like, and by the way, I was just like, well, what about I was like, what about
religion though?
Like you are up until this point, like we not talked about that either.
(42:20):
Like what would Christ say about it?
Like what would and she said, you know.
I really thought about it and like her whole demeanor changed after she got back from Iraq.
She was a lot more invested in me.
One night she had a couple of glasses of wine and she was like, so what is your ideal kind
of guy?
You know, she started asking me questions.
(42:41):
And so when I asked her about the religious part, she looked at me.
She said.
I don't think that I was raised like in the correct way.
I don't think I raised you in the correct way.
She said, I feel like I can't say I'm sorry for how I raised you.
(43:03):
But I can say I'm sorry that you're hurt.
She said I did the best that I had with what I knew.
And now she's remarried right in back in Texas and she seems to be doing well.
Oh my gosh.
I love her husband.
He is so sweet, so kind.
(43:30):
You know, he and I are close.
I think at this point he realizes that I just don't need another person trying to be my
dad right now.
Yeah.
I get that.
And so, yeah.
And then I just want to touch on this.
And I know I said before that I would.
(43:52):
But I have never seen a father figure.
Meeting Kyler was really good.
And then I remember you called me one day and you asked me to help you move some furniture
and I'd never had anybody else's parents reach out to me and think of me and include me in
(44:15):
a plan.
Yeah.
And you were so gracious about, you know, as long as it's okay with my son, because
you know, you like the way that you show love to your son and the way that you have such
joy in your voice when you talk about your son was really confusing at first and like
(44:35):
really hard and for me to accept when you were nice to me because I was just like, well,
I'm not your kid.
And like, I'm like never really been anybody's kid.
So it took a long time for me to trust that like the kindness that you were showing me
was legitimate.
(44:56):
But you've never once been angry with me.
You've never once like tried to say, well, I've done something for you.
Like I did this for you.
So you owe me this or and so yeah, that was really it's been really awesome to see like
actually like what a like a father son relationship could be.
(45:20):
And I've tried I always feel like I'd ever want to close the door on anybody.
I try to remain positive.
I try to remain open.
And so even when my father actually ended up getting a divorce from his wife, you know,
it's just never really been the same.
I feel like, you know, from 13 to 30 31, you know, it's kind of hard to build that back
(45:44):
up.
And so here I am today.
Yeah.
Well, I want to say something.
First of all, thank you for the compliments.
You know, my my son does mean the world to me, of course, and you're a huge part of his
happiness.
So you're a huge part of mine.
But I feel so bad because listening to this podcast, Nigel, I knew little tidbits, but
(46:10):
I had no idea from start to now, you know, all the struggles you'd went through.
And you know, I I think I should have probably quizzed you a little more or talk to you a
little more.
And so I really need to apologize for that.
I'm sorry.
I mean, yeah.
Thank you.
I have like a hard time actually learning not to say I'm sorry at everything or but
(46:34):
to actually accept compliments.
And so that's been a big struggle of mine for because of all this.
But actually, so thank you, Scott.
Actually, thank you very much.
Can I say something real quick?
Yeah.
Because Nigel, I think you should know this at this point.
Scott has always, you know, we started really, really talking what?
(46:59):
Three years ago, Scott.
Like you know, do you probably daily several times a day?
And he'd always say, my kids, you know, my kids, my kids.
Yeah.
And it's you and Kyler.
Those are his kids.
He's like my kids.
And it's just a normal thing.
It like just slides out, and I think based on what you're saying, I think it's really.
(47:25):
First of all, I think he doesn't think a thing about it when he says it.
It's like, yeah, this is normal.
And for you to now trust in that, I think is trying to trust, choosing to try, trying
to trust, choosing to trust.
Like, I still feel a lot of guilt.
Like sometimes when Scott is so generous, you know, I don't necessarily always feel
(47:47):
like I deserve it.
Or sometimes I'm like, well, this is only happening because he's doing this for his
son and I'm just here with him.
And I know that that's like at this point in my life, I've done a lot of work over
the last several years of really putting it to myself.
Like I am a great person.
I have a lot to offer.
You know, like if my grandparents don't want to be a part of my life, if my dad doesn't
(48:12):
want to be a part of my life.
And unfortunately, all these stepdads, I wish I could have known as a child that that was
their problem and their insecurity and their own thing.
And that like at the end of the day, I'm good.
And if you don't want to share in the joy and like what I am and who I am, then like
(48:32):
that's none of my business.
And that's just sad for them.
So I've you know, I have this thought process, have been trying to work on it, but it does
pop up.
But no, I know at the end of the day that Scott that like refers to me that way and
thinks about it that way.
And probably for the first time in a very long time hanging out with him and hanging
(48:54):
out with I don't know where we are and release of things, but Scott's girlfriend per se.
His future wife.
There we go.
I didn't know the order of which I don't know if that got mentioned in the thing, but
just spending time with them on vacation is probably the first time I felt like I was
on a family vacation where I felt like I was a part of a family I felt involved, I felt
(49:17):
connected with.
That's a huge compliment, Scott, for you and Ellen.
Yeah, I'm getting emotional now.
I want to say to Nigel is, I'm so sorry, you're going to have to deal with this the rest of
your life.
Yeah, she's totally teasing.
I'm like, I don't know, I've seen a lot of divorce.
(49:39):
But maybe I can't get out of this relationship, be like, sorry, Kyler, we have to get a divorce
because I can't stand your dad anymore.
No.
Oh my goodness.
Well, Nigel, I don't really have any more questions because I think your story, there's
(49:59):
so many aspects to it, as the child of divorce and not being seen or having, like you said,
here's the thing, religion, I think has control, shame and guilt issues attached to it in and
of itself.
(50:20):
And I think unfortunately, you had to deal with that as a child, which isn't fair.
And I hope as an adult, you move forward, like you've said, I'm learning these things
and too bad for those men who didn't get your gift.
That's on them.
Absolutely.
(50:41):
And I have loved hearing how you've dealt with this and who you are, knowing who you
are a little bit, the few times we've met.
But you've dealt with some shit.
And you've come out really cool.
Yes, you have.
And like, if there is like a cap off, a finishing statement of that is I'm so lucky also to
(51:05):
have the mother that I have.
She never left me.
She never...
That is so true.
You know, the situations weren't always perfect, but I think about my life right now and where
I'm at and thinking about how old my kids would be if I was her and the problems that
I have and like, you start to realize that your parents, she was 22 and had two children
(51:27):
and she was divorced.
You know, on the flip side of things, there's a lot of grace to be given there.
A lot of like understanding, forgiveness.
I really feel like she did the best she could.
And I honestly don't think that she could have done any better.
I think like I love her so much.
(51:49):
And then on the other part of it, it's like people have asked like, oh, wouldn't you go
back and change it or like if you could make it different?
And I just don't think so.
I think the hardships have shown me like when I love someone, I love them hard.
I work really hard.
I'm really independent.
I'm like, you know, I always want to make sure that I'm doing my best.
(52:11):
Now that I have a partner, you know, I know what it looks like to not have that support.
And so I try my best, you know, not perfect.
You know, I've got issues, my own thing.
So but I always just try really hard to not repeat those things.
I feel like if I were to go back and change something or make it different or maybe have
a better, I don't know what that would look like today.
(52:33):
And I don't I think it's a weird thing to think about.
And so as much as I don't really enjoy, I enjoy who I am as a person right now.
And I don't know that I would be that person if these things hadn't happened.
I agree.
You are who you are because of that.
Well, Nigel, thank you so much for the story.
Really.
Wow.
(52:53):
This is so much more than what I thought we were going to get to be quite honest.
I appreciate you being so open and I appreciate your mom.
I know you talked to her about it, allowing you to tell the story or being okay with it
because it's a tough story.
But I mean, just so you know, Nigel, I mean, we've got so many listeners out there and
I really do hope that somebody hears this and at least knows that there's hope down
(53:18):
the road.
Absolutely.
I always want to be so transparent as much as I can because, you know, I don't there's
a reason that I had to go through this.
There's a reason.
And if that reason is offering anybody support or solidarity or just the feeling of not being
alone in their situations when it's such a hard situation to talk about and connect with.
So I thank you for having me.
I'm actually was really excited and grateful for the opportunity to share this.
(53:41):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much.
And we've loved having you.
Thank you so much for sharing your story.
You're welcome.
Okay.
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Our Life Beyond.
We really hope that you found our discussion insightful and inspiring or at least brought
a smile to your day.
If you did enjoy this episode, please consider subscribing to the podcast on your favorite
(54:04):
platform and leave us a review.
For more information, resources or show notes, visit our website at our life beyond dot com.
You can also follow us on social media.
Search for us on Facebook at Our Life Beyond.
We would love to hear from you, our listeners, so feel free to reach out with your questions,
comments or suggestions through our contact us page at our life beyond dot com or on social
(54:29):
media.
And once again, thank you for joining us on this journey.
Till next time.
Remember life beyond any challenge is possible and we're here to navigate it with you.
Stay strong, stay positive and keep moving forward.
Well, hello, hello, hello.
(00:09):
Welcome to our Life Beyond the podcast where we explore how to navigate and hopefully thrive
through some of life's biggest transitions.
I'm your co-host Scott Dibben and I've teamed up with my great friend and mentor, Connie
King to share some stories, strategies and insights that helped us adapt to the ever-changing
seasons of our life.
(00:30):
Whether your life transition is divorce, death of a loved one, switching careers, moving
to a new city or just trying to figure out what the hell is next, we're with you every
step of the way.
But always remember, we're not therapists, just fellow travelers with a knack for finding
humor in the chaos and maybe some untraditional method of overcoming what life dishes out
(00:51):
to us.
Hopefully you'll have fun embarking on this journey.
So now let's get started.
I want to give a special thank you to Habit Coffee for sponsoring us.
So if you're local to Springfield, you're probably aware of the miserable construction
at Highway 60 and Farm Road 125 heading into Rogersville.
(01:14):
Yeah, right in the midst of all that progress is the Habit Coffee Company, a fantastic local
vagina-owned business.
They're more than just a coffee shop, they serve delicious scratch-made breakfast and
lunch options, they have a state and county inspected kitchen, and they love catering
events.
While it might take a bit of extra effort to reach them right now, they're excited
(01:37):
about the upcoming expansion when the highway reopens this fall.
Support the Habit Coffee Company and enjoy their incredible offerings today.
Thank you so much, Habit Coffee.
Hello, Connie.
Hello, Scott.
How are you?
I'm doing well.
How about yourself?
I am great.
I am very excited about our next guest.
(02:00):
I think I say that about each of our guests, though.
We have some amazing guests, though.
We really have.
So tell me about this one.
Yeah, let me tell you.
Our guest today is Nigel.
His journey is both unique and deeply relatable.
Looking up, Nigel navigated the challenges of five divorces within his family.
(02:23):
And that's a reality that profoundly impacted his childhood and shaped his understanding
of relationships.
So in this heartfelt conversation, Nigel opens up about how these experiences influenced
his perspective on life and relationships and how he worked through the emotional terrain
of his past.
(02:43):
But beyond the trials, Nigel also shares a touching tribute to his mother and the way
he honors her through his personal growth and resilience.
His story is one of overcoming adversity, finding strength in the midst of change, and
celebrating the bonds that remain steadfast.
I am so excited to hear his story.
(03:04):
So without further ado, let's talk to Nigel.
Well, hello, Nigel.
How are you today?
Oh, I'm doing great, Scott.
How are you doing today?
I'm doing great.
I want to go ahead.
Nigel?
Oh, yeah.
Connie's on here too, Nigel, just so you know.
Oh, the co-host?
Yeah.
So I wanted to introduce just in the beginning.
(03:27):
So I've got a personal relationship with Nigel because he's my son's partner.
So I know a lot of the story that he may talk through or some of it, not all of it.
But I'm telling you right now, it's an amazing story.
He's got a great family and I look forward to people hearing this.
So Nigel, what do you think?
(03:48):
Do you want to start off maybe at like your biological mom and dad, where you were at
and that and how you felt about it?
Oh, yeah, sure.
So I much like how I've heard you refer on this podcast.
I was also born in a Midwest town in the middle of the United States, just nondescript.
(04:11):
I grew up pretty poor farmer background, Baptist background.
My grandparents were missionaries, both sets of them.
My mother grew up in Central America.
My father grew up in Mexico.
They spent most of their like their parents spent most of their life like in service.
So they grew up basically like from five years old, like in those countries almost all the
(04:37):
way through high school.
So their whole life that they knew was dedicated to like Christian service.
They met that way.
Their families were in the same convention.
And so they connected a lot on the mission field.
And I just kind of feel like the way that they told me and again, just my perspective
and how I remember things, I just kind of feel like it was expected.
(05:02):
Like it just was kind of like made sense.
Like this is what you do.
You get married.
You know, you have a family.
And so they tend to do that pretty young.
So my parents, I think, were married probably 19 or 20.
Okay, wow.
And they had me, I think when my mom was 21, 22 ish.
(05:25):
But I don't know, I think that just being married, feeling like this is what you're
supposed to do, and just following through the motions, it didn't really play out how
they wanted to.
And so they ended up divorcing before I even really have any memory.
Like I've get these little snippets, my sister, she's two years older than me.
(05:46):
She remembers just a little bit more.
But quite honestly, I don't like I don't remember that part.
And so after that, which I think I start remembering my mom dating my second or my first stepdad
in.
(06:06):
I'm just going to drop names because I don't think they're ever going to listen to this.
But Ron, so Ron was the first one they married pretty early on as well.
Of course, we moved to another small town.
And things were all right.
Go ahead.
How old were you at that time, Nigel?
(06:27):
So I might have been in like pre-k.
Oh, wow.
Okay, so you were really young.
Right.
Because they weren't married and we moved into a house and my was I didn't go to school
at that point.
So yeah.
Okay.
So Ron.
(06:48):
Oh, yeah.
So Ron, at some point, for whatever reason, joins the military.
And we ended up moving to Texas.
And we were on an army base there.
And I actually kind of like that because like I had relationship with my father still like
(07:08):
I have a relationship with my father clear until high school.
And you know, it was nice because he would come visit us.
Like while we were still in Missouri, but when we moved to Texas, I really didn't get
to see him as much.
Where I used to be able to see him like once a month or so I just kind of be a year or
so before I'd see him.
(07:30):
And I always kind of like knew that like Ron wasn't necessarily like my dad.
And it never quite felt like that I felt like.
And the common theme throughout the rest of this is like they had their interests, the
things that they wanted me to learn like he was always working on a truck and my my mom
and him would ask me to come sit outside and I'd sit next to a truck and hand them a wrench
(07:54):
or hand them something and I was never paying attention.
So I've never really felt like I got along or understood him and that he understood me
because once he joined the military, he kind of developed like that militant attitude.
So you know, things needed to be a certain way.
But I liked I did kind of not mind that part because he was often deployed.
(08:16):
So we just lived, you know, in this duplex and.
He was never there.
So I mean, it was just me and my mom and my sister.
So it's crazy because for the rest of the story as well, it's just like it feels like
she was always married.
But yeah, I always felt like I had a single mother.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
(08:37):
But yeah, I just I just always felt it was like me, my mom, my sister against the world.
So he yeah.
So we were in Texas and then we moved back to Missouri.
We were we moved to. Yeah, it doesn't drop one, but.
(08:58):
He had left the military at that point.
And we were getting ready to move back to Texas and he moved to Houston to go find the
house and whatever.
And so I guess while he was there, he bought a house and a truck and got a girlfriend.
Oh, wow.
And I was at school and my mom came and picked me up.
(09:23):
And I remember them calling me out, like calling me.
And I was just like, well, I'm not sick and I'm not allowed to like leave school unless
I'm sick.
And you know, like it was really strange because I'm like, no one's dead.
And so we drove from drop one back to my like I would say my hometown per se, but my hometown.
(09:45):
And they sat me down with my grandparents and they were like.
You know, Ron.
Ron doesn't want to be a part of the picture anymore.
He isn't coming back from Texas and we're not going there.
And so we stayed in my hometown for a while and then we moved to closer to Springfield
(10:10):
Republic.
And then she met Nathan and Nathan, she met at church.
She was, you know, that was important to her.
She wanted I think that the I think Ron, the start wasn't necessarily based in the church.
(10:31):
So I think after that, she really wanted to try to like make good choices and raise us
because like I said, we were heavily, heavily invested in the Baptist community and the
Baptist faith.
So I think that she really was trying to find like good quality in a person and really rely
like find them in church like you're supposed to, because then you can trust them and you
(10:53):
know they're good.
Allegedly.
So ideally.
So she met Nathan and I remember being really excited because he lived in a really big house
in Springfield and they had cable and air conditioning.
I just remember being so excited because he had all this technology.
(11:13):
He seemed really cool.
But you know, I could again tell like he was more and probably interested in my mother
than having like a family.
And my mom has recently said that, like in the past was just like, yeah, he thought that
he knew what it was like to be a father because his sister had children and he had been an
(11:34):
uncle.
Okay.
And so he wasn't necessarily prepared for like kids who don't behave or you know, kids
who are going through puberty and having hormones and yeah.
And so, oh, go ahead.
No, I was just kind of, I even forgot to ask.
So did Ron have any of his own kids on the first marriage?
(11:56):
No.
No.
Okay.
And Nathan didn't have any of his own kids the second one.
Okay.
No.
And, oh, going back to Ron really quick.
I didn't know really that they were having problems, but I did remember one time hearing
(12:17):
them fight.
And I remember being really confused by it because I had never heard anybody fight before.
And so I didn't really understand what it was, you know?
Yeah.
And my mom later on really apologized like in my 20s, she was like, oh my gosh, I never
knew that you could hear that.
(12:39):
Like I never wanted you to hear that.
And so I had never seen anyone fight before.
And so whenever mom was with Nathan and they got married and so instead of moving to Springfield
or a bigger city, they moved us back into Crane because they thought that we'd be safer
(13:02):
there.
Like as kids, he was worried that we'd get into like drugs and whatever.
So they moved us to a small town in Stone County as to avoid getting into drugs.
But we did not, I mean, it was fine.
I also feel like that wasn't necessarily a great move just because it was so isolating
and in a smaller town.
And at that point, that's when I started realizing that I might not be straight.
(13:26):
Okay.
And at what age was that?
Probably I think I started having an idea about it in like sixth and seventh grade.
Okay.
I had a crush on the neighbor.
So we moved back to Crane and we just kind of settled into it.
(13:48):
But I like again, like once again, I had a father like a stepfather who is taking me
to Bass Pro and fitting me up for hunting gear and taking me out into the woods to go
like turkey hunting.
And I don't like to sit still and I don't like to be quiet and I have a circulatory
(14:08):
disorder or circulatory disorder and I don't like getting cold.
And so that was just my own personal hell.
But no, he never really asked me like what I was into.
And so, you know, he would buy video games that felt like he was just buying video games
that he wanted and was just always trying to project.
(14:29):
I remember at one point I was singing some Dolly Parton just because I'm a woman, which
honestly is just Dolly Parton and it had nothing to do with a reflection of myself.
But I feel like he was so afraid and kind of like noticing all these behaviors about
me and didn't like it that he got so pissed one day that I was singing that song.
(14:49):
He's like, well, why would you sing this song?
Like why would you sing this?
And I'm like, I'm a I'm just a teenager.
I'm just singing a song.
It's catchy.
Like I'm not thinking too much about it.
Yeah.
And so I'm just picking up these little bitty things like that.
I'm like, OK, this isn't OK.
(15:11):
And so at the same time that this is happening, my dad, who was single and had it really dated,
he remarried and she had a kid.
And I had my sister and I had a room at my dad's house.
But when we moved, he moved in with his new wife and her kid.
(15:33):
She had boxed up all of our things and told us to take it home.
That we had a room at our mother's house and that this was now her son's room.
And it wasn't fair that we should have two rooms when he only gets one.
Oh, wow.
And it was made very, very clear that she had found her son a father and where at this
(15:57):
point I used to love going to my dad's house.
Like I felt like he was so cool.
He was like my best friend, which is really like in retrospect, my mom was doing the work.
My mom was, you know, taking care of us.
And he, you know, of course, got us on the weekends and he was an over the road trucker
and he made money.
(16:17):
And so he was able to buy the things that my mom couldn't.
And I honestly feel like I always recognize that.
I don't ever I never felt like my mom didn't provide or that it wasn't good enough.
I did like going to my dad's house.
It was fun, but I never really was just like, why can't you do this for me?
He does this for me.
(16:37):
And so I really felt like that she's always done a good job of making me feel safe.
And so when he remarried, he became like a different person.
Like he seemed really tired all the time.
He seemed really closed off.
(16:58):
I would ask him if we could hang out like without, you know, this my brother, my new
brother, my stepbrother and his wife.
And it would never happen.
He couldn't.
He just would never do it.
And so finally I started asking him because we would go every other weekend.
He'd come to Crane and pick us up.
And I finally was just like, if I could just have the ride from Crane to Springfield with
(17:19):
you, if I could just have that.
And he always brought his wife.
So you never really had any alone time with your dad at that point on.
And I would never again.
Was there any shared hobbies with your dad?
Yeah.
Yeah.
We he, you know, bought me a game like he played.
(17:41):
He had a Gameboy of his own.
An original one.
I remember playing this racing game that featured a race car driver, Nigel Mansell.
And I always got a kick out of the fact that the race car driver was my name.
We played like Mario together.
We would stay up really, really late playing Super Nintendo, working on the levels together.
Like, you know, we would go see movies.
(18:04):
And like my sister was right there.
Like she was right there in it.
Like we'd go to Whitewater.
Like we were hanging out.
We were doing things.
He, you know, asked me about the stuff I liked.
Like, you know, he knew that I was really into like orangutans and apes.
So he like, you know, would get things and like a lot of it was gifts.
I'm not gonna lie.
He didn't have a lot of time with us.
So I feel like he just.
(18:26):
That was his way.
But it did always feel like it was something that I was interested in.
Like he took us to the zoo so I could look at the orangutans.
I was just really obsessed with apes, like really obsessed.
Hyper focused except.
But yeah.
And like I said, it was just a 180 change of personality.
(18:47):
And so I don't have that family support there.
And then my mom's marriage started going a little bit weird with Nathan.
He just started getting angrier and more closed off.
He ended up building.
Like he turned the garage into a den and like put in surround sound and started spending
all this money on like technology and TVs.
(19:10):
And up until this point, my mom, we never had a TV.
And he started getting more and more upset with me.
And I never really could understand what like why I was in trouble.
One day he was upset that I was taking too many showers.
And I guess I was I was halfway through a shower, all lathered up.
And he somehow I don't know if it was the access underneath the sink, but he cut the
(19:34):
water off and I came out tallying off.
I was like something's wrong with the water.
And he just went in like you're wasting utilities and you're doing this and like you're not
thinking about it.
And you know, you're being so disrespectful and you never think of anyone else.
You're so selfish.
And I started at this point.
(19:56):
This is probably the part that's toughest, because again, like I love my mother and it
all ends up fine.
But at this point, it felt like she couldn't defend me.
And so I was just kind of I think everybody was starting to emotionally check out like
you like the whole house.
Everybody was just going into this like robot state.
(20:20):
I was just kind of doing I think there's this term called fawning, which is just like looking
ahead to see the problems and just like working your ass off to not create problems because
you're so scared of getting in trouble.
My mom decided that she couldn't take it.
And she decided to join the army.
Okay, I remember that she I remember her talking about going to the army.
(20:42):
So that was that was after after Nathan and it was during Nathan.
Okay.
So you were probably in about the seventh grade then?
Yeah.
Well, I think I was mid high school.
I think I was.
Okay, why?
Because we moved again.
Like we I've got there about halfway through sixth grade.
(21:03):
And so at this point, I've been switching schools about halfway through every year.
But yeah, so about this time and the the order is a little bit fuzzy, but it all happened
so quick about the same time.
But I finally was ready to admit and tell my parents that I was gay.
(21:25):
And so I called my mom and I made her come home.
And she gets there and I sit down and I probably talked for about 30 minutes about, you know,
there's this feeling inside and I don't know what it is.
And God says this and I don't know.
And I just feel so bad.
And I don't and my mom's finally like, you just need to say what it is.
And I told her I was gay and she started crying.
(21:47):
I might cry right now, too.
But she started crying.
And she said to me, I thought you were going to tell me you were on drugs.
But now that you've told me you're gay, I only wish that you were on drugs, because
at least there's rehab for that.
Oh, wow.
(22:08):
Which is kind of progressive a little bit in the time it took.
It hurt really bad right then.
But looking back, it kind of feels OK, because at least she was saying that it wasn't necessarily
a choice and that she knew that there was no fix for it.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
You know, growing up in a Baptist, especially I think if I remember right, it's pretty you
(22:31):
were your family was pretty strict.
Yeah, we were like fundamental independent.
So it was very much like rules, rules, rules and like hyper rules.
Like, like, don't play cards in public.
Even if you're just playing solitary goldfish, you don't want people to think you're gambling.
So don't play cards.
(22:52):
Like you have to look to see if other people might perceive you as doing something wrong.
So yeah, pretty strict.
So was Nathan in that conversation, too?
Well, hell no.
Hell no.
I was terrified.
She starts saying, your grandma's not going to accept this and Nathan is not going to
(23:14):
accept this.
We might have to move.
We might have to get an apartment.
We might have to leave.
And in that moment, I was I was I did recognize and I was really grateful that she chose me.
Yeah, absolutely.
She offered.
She said, do you want help?
Because she had been recently painting someone's house that worked in the church that we were
(23:38):
going to.
And there's the couple special like ministry was that they worked with gay people and trying
to lead them out of gayness and back into Christ.
And so she said that they had a class and that I could go to it and she would take me.
And it was like two hours every Thursday for about 16 weeks.
(23:58):
Thank God it wasn't like conversion therapy.
It's just more of like a class full of people with general problems.
Later on, my mom would tell me that she didn't want to take me to anything more specific
because she was worried that it would be too harsh.
So yet again, like even though we're working through the steps of like what we have in
(24:19):
our toolbox and that's the way that I really reframe it is.
My mom had a certain set of tools and a certain understanding and she was single a lot or
trying to find probably what she might have thought like the complete household, the way
(24:40):
that it was supposed to look.
And so I think with the tools that she had and the understanding the place where she
was at in life that she was doing her best.
And so I was grateful that she went with me and she sat in the classes with me.
And so I think it was about two weeks after these classes ended.
(25:06):
I was in Springfield and went on a date for the first time with a guy and yeah, ended
up experiencing my first kiss there, which was horrifying.
I was like, I'm going to hell now.
But it was just so funny because I was like, I want this to work out so bad.
And I remember that I got up at the last class and I stood up and I said, I just want to
(25:32):
let everyone know I'm here because I had kept it secret the whole time.
I'm here because I've been experiencing these feelings of homosexuality and like a gay attraction
and that I know that I can't help how I feel, but I can decide what my actions are.
(25:55):
And so if Christ gave his all for me, then I should be able to give my all for him and
I just won't act on them ever.
And then I wiped away a tear and the foundation that I was wearing wiped off in my napkin.
Which is also a big confusion.
(26:17):
I walked in because my friends were wearing makeup and I had a car and I was able to drive
to Springfield and hang out with these progressive punk kids and I was just this little quiet
weirdo but the girls I was with, they were putting makeup on me and I was just vibing
with that.
(26:38):
I came home one day with eyeliner on and my mom was just like, hey, you really need to
take that off because if your stepdad sees that he won't understand and I know it's
probably just like a thing that you're doing with your friends and it's fun, whatever,
but people might get the wrong impression.
And so once again, this theme of like, don't be yourself, people won't like you, push it
(27:02):
down, be acceptable, do what you're supposed to.
So that was all happening and then that class happened and then yeah, I just started going,
I just went for it and I moved out.
My mom wants the kids are out.
So I guess it happened afterwards.
(27:23):
She, there was a moment where the military needed doctors, but they didn't want doctors
right out of school and they didn't want old ass doctors.
So they raised the limit of the age and my mom to get out of her marriage because when
I tell you that he was spending all this money on other stuff, he would come home, there'd
be McDonald's wrappers in the foot, like the floorboard of his truck where he'd eaten
(27:47):
dinner on the way home and then wasn't giving money for groceries.
And my mom, you know, she didn't have a job at that point.
And so she worked in the flea market that my grandma owned and she'd be like, hey, if
you're hungry for dinner or breakfast, I've got some food at the shop and so you can come
there and but I guess at one point he was yelling at her and he said, well, no wonder
(28:09):
you have a kid who's gay when you he they have a mother like you.
And so I think that really like I can't imagine what that sorry if I'm crying a little bit,
but I can't imagine what that treatment was like for her.
And she had to suffer it alone since the age limit went up.
(28:29):
She was able then to join the military.
And so she went there and while she was in Iraq, she went to boot camp, AIT went to Iraq,
was there and somewhere in the middle of that, she found out something that he had done,
which was like a major, major betrayal of trust in something that she had at the very
(28:53):
beginning put on the line and said that this is not okay.
And found out that he had done that and that was her that was her like to get out because
again, she is this, you know, Baptist woman and you're not really allowed to just get
a divorce.
Yeah, like the Bible only makes room for like a couple things where it's just like if your
husband's not providing if he's beating you if he's cheating.
(29:14):
So she divorced him.
And at that time you had moved out though, and she was overseas.
So she had like a deployment over there that she had to do.
Uh huh.
Yeah.
Oh, and the part I missed that was kind of big was I was living in Springfield, they
asked me to come down to crane and babysit their dog.
(29:39):
And the Oh, sorry, as I piece this together, and I remember things, it all comes back.
I don't tend to think about this a lot, but the day that I called my mom, the catalyst
was I was sitting in the kitchen.
And I remember Amy Winehouse's Wake Up Alone was playing.
(30:05):
And you know, like when the light ray comes through the window, and you can see like the
dust particles like because you can see the beam of light, I was staying in the kitchen.
And I was holding, I was chopping up apples for a snack and I was holding a knife.
And I just thought from like this moment, if I went right now, if I just ended it now,
(30:25):
I wouldn't have to tell anybody and they wouldn't have to be embarrassed.
Oh, wow.
I can't believe you had that thought in your head.
Yeah, I thought, I can't fix this.
I have prayed and I have prayed.
And I was so frustrated because I cried myself to sleep every night wanting to know what
(30:48):
I had done, why this was happening.
Clearly all these male figures in my life were just, I wasn't like them.
And they always seem to be so mad at me for it, for like existing.
So I was just like, what if I didn't?
Because if I tell them, I'll lose everybody.
(31:08):
And so if I'm going to lose everybody, I may as well go this way so that way they won't
have to know and they won't be upset and they won't have to think about me that way.
But I can't.
I'm grateful that I just can't, couldn't bring myself to do it.
Self harm is not necessarily something that I guess I have in me like that.
(31:29):
But because I came right up to the edge and I peered over and just something said no.
So I didn't call my mom.
That's why I told her.
So flash forward, she's going to be deployed and he's driving her to the airport and they
want me to stay in Cranham and babysit the dog.
And I'm staying in the kitchen making some dinner and I don't really know how it happened.
(31:52):
But that song came back on and the light hit just right and I freaked out.
I panicked.
I hopped in the car.
I drove back to Springfield.
I found my roommate.
I was like, hey, I'm in a weird place right now.
Like I'm not necessarily a danger to myself, but like I don't know how that situation so
perfectly recreated itself.
(32:14):
But it was so upsetting.
I just left.
And so I called them about something because I needed something to know something and they
found out that I wasn't where I was supposed to be.
I wasn't in Cranham anymore.
And my mom had gotten on an airplane and I wasn't I wouldn't be able to speak to her
(32:35):
probably for the next six months to a year because she was in boot camp and AIT.
They can't call you during that time.
And so he said to me, well, why aren't you there?
And I couldn't explain it to him.
Yeah, like I couldn't.
And so I lied.
I said I was supposed to be at work.
He's like, well, you called me during this time you weren't at work.
(32:58):
He said your mom, when she found out that you lied to her, something in her eyes died
and she will never be able to look at you the same.
And basically basically told me that my mom didn't love me anymore.
And all I knew is that's what he said.
Was that a manipulation technique on his part to make you feel bad for not doing what he
(33:20):
wanted you to be doing?
Do you think that now?
Okay.
I mean, absolutely.
I also think that he was just really cruel.
Okay.
Your mom was taking a lot on at that time.
If you think about it, relationships weren't working.
Of course, she was probably getting pressured by her family because of the Baptist.
And my grandparents loved him.
(33:43):
Finally my mother, we were able to talk and you know, it just wasn't the same.
Like I had it in my head that she didn't love me anymore.
And we hadn't talked for so long.
And so she got out of the military.
And no, no, no.
(34:04):
Yeah, she got out.
She came back from Iraq and she got put into Fort Worth, Texas, which is where the army
base where we lived with Ron.
And my mom had some trouble with the paperwork.
And so she contacted Ron, they started talking.
And the next thing I know, they're getting married again.
(34:25):
Okay.
So, so number two and number four were the same person.
Yes.
And so at this point, I'm just like what is happening, you know, like I am, I've already
started building my own life.
But you know, I'm just heavily drinking.
(34:49):
I am in and out of bars.
I am not going quite to work where I'm supposed to.
I'm living couch to couch.
I had enrolled in cosmetology school at this point.
I just very gratefully was able to pay for it with student loans.
And you know, like having the hardest times establishing relationships.
(35:15):
Is that because of the experience you'd had with Nathan or was it the whole thing?
Okay.
I had never seen a successful relationship.
I had never seen a happy relationship.
I'd never seen a healthy relationship, even with my dad and his wife.
I mean, at one point, shoot, his wife was so controlling.
At one point, I said to my dad and like at this, like that marriage, we're no longer
(35:41):
getting like Christmas presents.
We're getting like stockings, like candy, but just a Walmart sack of candy and some
stuff and some trinkets in there, you know, because we're no longer really going to a
house.
My mom finally said, you don't have to go anymore if you don't want to.
And because we were coming, I would come home crying every time because you know, I just,
(36:03):
she was just always just this person and you know, and even while it was with Nathan, people
like would describe her as like, you know, evil stepmother.
And then Nathan, my friends just called him my landlord.
Like, you know, and so here she is married to this person again.
(36:24):
And I'm like, I don't really understand it.
And so yeah, I just was working my way through life.
Did you, did you give him another chance at that point or were you, I mean, over it?
I was so emotionally turned off from the whole situation.
It didn't make any sense.
(36:45):
I didn't have a close relationship with my mom.
I just, I didn't like it.
You know, but it was just like such a disassociation and such like an emotionally dead time for
me.
Like, you know, I was in hair school, I was eating a pack of ramen a day.
I barely could get employment.
(37:06):
I didn't have a car.
I was walking to school.
I was walking to work.
Like, you know, I would get tips in school.
And so like on the weekend, I might be able to afford a cheeseburger at McDonald's.
And that was like the splurge that made me feel like a human being.
So like I had problems of my own.
Yeah.
Like she's, I was like, you're making your problems.
(37:26):
You're doing your own thing.
I like, I don't really know what to do about this.
I have my grandparents coming to visit me in Springfield and they're telling me that
I'm selfish and self centered and that like I'll die before 50 because sin will wreck
my body and that I'm selfish.
I'll never know true love and what real love is because there's no real love outside of
(37:48):
Christ.
And if I even ran into a burning building building to save a baby, it would be a selfish
act.
Good Lord.
So like, I'm having like a struggle at this point.
And you know, she was with him for a couple years, but he pretty he showed us true colors
(38:10):
pretty quickly and she divorced him as well.
She stayed with him for quite a while, like quite a bit longer than she really wanted
to because she's like, I've just divorced so many times.
Yeah.
You know, I can't like I have to make sure that I'm really doing this and trying everything.
And so she really did try hard to make it work.
But ultimately, like it wasn't going to.
(38:34):
She had always had to restart her life every single time.
She was she never took anything.
She never fought for money.
Even when my father wasn't paying child support, she did not go after him.
So you know, I just yeah, I just I just had these.
Yeah, I just had a hard time with that.
(38:57):
A lot of people failed you.
So a lot of people made you feel not important.
It sounds like like you weren't the priority.
Yeah.
I asked my grandmother like right before I went to school because she was a Bible doctorate.
She taught at a college and I said, hey, I would really like to go to school.
I just need help cosigning on some loans.
(39:19):
And she said, why would I do that?
And I said, well, don't I mean, don't you even respect the fact that I'm trying to get
an education?
And she said.
And she said, respect you.
Why would I?
She said, I would sign a car like I would cosign on a car because if you defaulted on
the loan, I could sell the car and get my money back.
I would cosign on a house for you because if you defaulted, I could sell the house and
(39:43):
get my money back.
She's like, but if I cosign on your education, you default.
Like that's just a bad investment on my part.
Wow.
So that happened.
You know, it's just like that happened.
So, so Ron, your mom had divorced Ron and is that the last person that she was with
(40:06):
until she got married this time?
No, we're out.
We have one more.
Oh, OK.
And so she.
I had.
I had a.
I also had a really tragic dating life.
I've had at that point, I think I was on my second boyfriend and we had broken up.
(40:32):
And so my mom.
Can't like.
Flew me to Texas and we both celebrated and commiserated our.
Our breakups and divorces together for about a week.
And then I came home.
And then she met Phil.
(40:53):
So that marriage lasted for a while and.
Again like things started coming up and he wanted more out of my mom than my mom was
able to give.
And I get this phone call and I end up spending an hour and a half at this party in a.
(41:14):
Bare bedroom crying on the phone with my mother because she's once again getting a divorce.
And it's just like it's just so defeating, you know, because once again, it's just like
I kind of like I always got my hopes up for her.
Because I so desperately wanted her to be happy.
She said, first and foremost, I love you very much.
I don't think I've ever really shown you a great example.
(41:38):
Of what love looks like and what relationships can be or should be.
She said, I've tried my hardest to like find men in the right way.
You know, and she's like, I just don't know what that would be.
She's like, I just all I want for you is to be happy.
All I want for you is to be safe.
All I want for you is to be loved.
(41:59):
And she's like, and if that's a man.
Then that's what I want for you.
So if you'll come here, she's like, I've got you.
I love you and it'll be OK.
And she's like, and by the way, I was just like, well, what about I was like, what about
religion though?
Like you are up until this point, like we not talked about that either.
(42:20):
Like what would Christ say about it?
Like what would and she said, you know.
I really thought about it and like her whole demeanor changed after she got back from Iraq.
She was a lot more invested in me.
One night she had a couple of glasses of wine and she was like, so what is your ideal kind
of guy?
You know, she started asking me questions.
(42:41):
And so when I asked her about the religious part, she looked at me.
She said.
I don't think that I was raised like in the correct way.
I don't think I raised you in the correct way.
She said, I feel like I can't say I'm sorry for how I raised you.
(43:03):
But I can say I'm sorry that you're hurt.
She said I did the best that I had with what I knew.
And now she's remarried right in back in Texas and she seems to be doing well.
Oh my gosh.
I love her husband.
He is so sweet, so kind.
(43:30):
You know, he and I are close.
I think at this point he realizes that I just don't need another person trying to be my
dad right now.
Yeah.
I get that.
And so, yeah.
And then I just want to touch on this.
And I know I said before that I would.
(43:52):
But I have never seen a father figure.
Meeting Kyler was really good.
And then I remember you called me one day and you asked me to help you move some furniture
and I'd never had anybody else's parents reach out to me and think of me and include me in
(44:15):
a plan.
Yeah.
And you were so gracious about, you know, as long as it's okay with my son, because
you know, you like the way that you show love to your son and the way that you have such
joy in your voice when you talk about your son was really confusing at first and like
(44:35):
really hard and for me to accept when you were nice to me because I was just like, well,
I'm not your kid.
And like, I'm like never really been anybody's kid.
So it took a long time for me to trust that like the kindness that you were showing me
was legitimate.
(44:56):
But you've never once been angry with me.
You've never once like tried to say, well, I've done something for you.
Like I did this for you.
So you owe me this or and so yeah, that was really it's been really awesome to see like
actually like what a like a father son relationship could be.
(45:20):
And I've tried I always feel like I'd ever want to close the door on anybody.
I try to remain positive.
I try to remain open.
And so even when my father actually ended up getting a divorce from his wife, you know,
it's just never really been the same.
I feel like, you know, from 13 to 30 31, you know, it's kind of hard to build that back
(45:44):
up.
And so here I am today.
Yeah.
Well, I want to say something.
First of all, thank you for the compliments.
You know, my my son does mean the world to me, of course, and you're a huge part of his
happiness.
So you're a huge part of mine.
But I feel so bad because listening to this podcast, Nigel, I knew little tidbits, but
(46:10):
I had no idea from start to now, you know, all the struggles you'd went through.
And you know, I I think I should have probably quizzed you a little more or talk to you a
little more.
And so I really need to apologize for that.
I'm sorry.
I mean, yeah.
Thank you.
I have like a hard time actually learning not to say I'm sorry at everything or but
(46:34):
to actually accept compliments.
And so that's been a big struggle of mine for because of all this.
But actually, so thank you, Scott.
Actually, thank you very much.
Can I say something real quick?
Yeah.
Because Nigel, I think you should know this at this point.
Scott has always, you know, we started really, really talking what?
(46:59):
Three years ago, Scott.
Like you know, do you probably daily several times a day?
And he'd always say, my kids, you know, my kids, my kids.
Yeah.
And it's you and Kyler.
Those are his kids.
He's like my kids.
And it's just a normal thing.
It like just slides out, and I think based on what you're saying, I think it's really.
(47:25):
First of all, I think he doesn't think a thing about it when he says it.
It's like, yeah, this is normal.
And for you to now trust in that, I think is trying to trust, choosing to try, trying
to trust, choosing to trust.
Like, I still feel a lot of guilt.
Like sometimes when Scott is so generous, you know, I don't necessarily always feel
(47:47):
like I deserve it.
Or sometimes I'm like, well, this is only happening because he's doing this for his
son and I'm just here with him.
And I know that that's like at this point in my life, I've done a lot of work over
the last several years of really putting it to myself.
Like I am a great person.
I have a lot to offer.
You know, like if my grandparents don't want to be a part of my life, if my dad doesn't
(48:12):
want to be a part of my life.
And unfortunately, all these stepdads, I wish I could have known as a child that that was
their problem and their insecurity and their own thing.
And that like at the end of the day, I'm good.
And if you don't want to share in the joy and like what I am and who I am, then like
(48:32):
that's none of my business.
And that's just sad for them.
So I've you know, I have this thought process, have been trying to work on it, but it does
pop up.
But no, I know at the end of the day that Scott that like refers to me that way and
thinks about it that way.
And probably for the first time in a very long time hanging out with him and hanging
(48:54):
out with I don't know where we are and release of things, but Scott's girlfriend per se.
His future wife.
There we go.
I didn't know the order of which I don't know if that got mentioned in the thing, but
just spending time with them on vacation is probably the first time I felt like I was
on a family vacation where I felt like I was a part of a family I felt involved, I felt
(49:17):
connected with.
That's a huge compliment, Scott, for you and Ellen.
Yeah, I'm getting emotional now.
I want to say to Nigel is, I'm so sorry, you're going to have to deal with this the rest of
your life.
Yeah, she's totally teasing.
I'm like, I don't know, I've seen a lot of divorce.
(49:39):
But maybe I can't get out of this relationship, be like, sorry, Kyler, we have to get a divorce
because I can't stand your dad anymore.
No.
Oh my goodness.
Well, Nigel, I don't really have any more questions because I think your story, there's
(49:59):
so many aspects to it, as the child of divorce and not being seen or having, like you said,
here's the thing, religion, I think has control, shame and guilt issues attached to it in and
of itself.
(50:20):
And I think unfortunately, you had to deal with that as a child, which isn't fair.
And I hope as an adult, you move forward, like you've said, I'm learning these things
and too bad for those men who didn't get your gift.
That's on them.
Absolutely.
(50:41):
And I have loved hearing how you've dealt with this and who you are, knowing who you
are a little bit, the few times we've met.
But you've dealt with some shit.
And you've come out really cool.
Yes, you have.
And like, if there is like a cap off, a finishing statement of that is I'm so lucky also to
(51:05):
have the mother that I have.
She never left me.
She never...
That is so true.
You know, the situations weren't always perfect, but I think about my life right now and where
I'm at and thinking about how old my kids would be if I was her and the problems that
I have and like, you start to realize that your parents, she was 22 and had two children
(51:27):
and she was divorced.
You know, on the flip side of things, there's a lot of grace to be given there.
A lot of like understanding, forgiveness.
I really feel like she did the best she could.
And I honestly don't think that she could have done any better.
I think like I love her so much.
(51:49):
And then on the other part of it, it's like people have asked like, oh, wouldn't you go
back and change it or like if you could make it different?
And I just don't think so.
I think the hardships have shown me like when I love someone, I love them hard.
I work really hard.
I'm really independent.
I'm like, you know, I always want to make sure that I'm doing my best.
(52:11):
Now that I have a partner, you know, I know what it looks like to not have that support.
And so I try my best, you know, not perfect.
You know, I've got issues, my own thing.
So but I always just try really hard to not repeat those things.
I feel like if I were to go back and change something or make it different or maybe have
a better, I don't know what that would look like today.
(52:33):
And I don't I think it's a weird thing to think about.
And so as much as I don't really enjoy, I enjoy who I am as a person right now.
And I don't know that I would be that person if these things hadn't happened.
I agree.
You are who you are because of that.
Well, Nigel, thank you so much for the story.
Really.
Wow.
(52:53):
This is so much more than what I thought we were going to get to be quite honest.
I appreciate you being so open and I appreciate your mom.
I know you talked to her about it, allowing you to tell the story or being okay with it
because it's a tough story.
But I mean, just so you know, Nigel, I mean, we've got so many listeners out there and
I really do hope that somebody hears this and at least knows that there's hope down
(53:18):
the road.
Absolutely.
I always want to be so transparent as much as I can because, you know, I don't there's
a reason that I had to go through this.
There's a reason.
And if that reason is offering anybody support or solidarity or just the feeling of not being
alone in their situations when it's such a hard situation to talk about and connect with.
So I thank you for having me.
I'm actually was really excited and grateful for the opportunity to share this.
(53:41):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much.
And we've loved having you.
Thank you so much for sharing your story.
You're welcome.
Okay.
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Our Life Beyond.
We really hope that you found our discussion insightful and inspiring or at least brought
a smile to your day.
If you did enjoy this episode, please consider subscribing to the podcast on your favorite
(54:04):
platform and leave us a review.
For more information, resources or show notes, visit our website at our life beyond dot com.
You can also follow us on social media.
Search for us on Facebook at Our Life Beyond.
We would love to hear from you, our listeners, so feel free to reach out with your questions,
comments or suggestions through our contact us page at our life beyond dot com or on social
(54:29):
media.
And once again, thank you for joining us on this journey.
Till next time.
Remember life beyond any challenge is possible and we're here to navigate it with you.
Stay strong, stay positive and keep moving forward.
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