September 24, 2024 • 48 mins
In this milestone 10th episode of Our Life Beyond, Connie and Scott tackle the often complex, but deeply rewarding topic of opposite-sex friendships—especially at this stage in life. Can men and women truly be just friends? How do you build and maintain these friendships while navigating the societal expectations, personal insecurities, and challenges that often come with them?
Through candid stories and real-life experiences, Connie and Scott explore the benefits of having close friendships with the opposite sex, from gaining new perspectives to having a supportive, trusted sounding board. They also dive into the hurdles—jealousy, misunderstanding, and setting healthy boundaries—while sharing how they've made their own friendship thrive through life's biggest transitions, from dating after loss to major career and personal changes.
This episode isn’t just about male and female friendships; it’s about connection, trust, and how to nurture relationships that enrich our lives, regardless of gender. Tune in to hear practical advice, heartwarming anecdotes, and insights that may challenge your own beliefs about what it means to have an opposite-sex best friend.
Listen now to discover how Connie and Scott have navigated their unique friendship and how you can build meaningful, platonic relationships in your own life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Well, hello, hello, hello.
(00:09):
Welcome to our Life Beyond the podcast where we explore how to navigate and hopefully thrive
through some of life's biggest transitions.
I'm your co-host Scott Dibben and I've teamed up with my great friend and mentor, Connie
King to share some stories, strategies and insights that helped us adapt to the ever-changing
seasons of our life.
(00:30):
Whether your life transition is divorce, death of a loved one, switching careers, moving
to a new city or just trying to figure out what the hell is next, we're with you every
step of the way.
But always remember, we're not therapists, just fellow travelers with a knack for finding
humor in the chaos and maybe some untraditional method of overcoming what life dishes out
(00:51):
to us.
Hopefully you'll have fun embarking on this journey.
So now let's get started.
I want to give a special thank you to Habit Coffee for sponsoring us.
So if you're local to Springfield, you're probably aware of the miserable construction
at Highway 60 and Farm Road 125 heading into Rogersville.
(01:14):
Yeah, right in the midst of all that progress is the Habit Coffee Company, a fantastic local
vagina-owned business.
They're more than just a coffee shop, they serve delicious scratch-made breakfast and
lunch options.
They have a state and county inspected kitchen and they love catering events.
While it might take a bit of extra effort to reach them right now, they're excited
(01:37):
about the upcoming expansion when the highway reopens this fall.
Support the Habit Coffee Company and enjoy their incredible offerings today.
Thank you so much, Habit Coffee.
Welcome to Our Life Beyond, the podcast where we dive deep into the questions and conversations
that shape our lives.
I'm Connie King and I'm joined by my good friend, Scott Dibbin.
(02:00):
We're so excited you're joining us for this special episode.
Today we're wrapping up our first season with a topic that's sure to spark some interesting
discussions, opposite sex friendships.
We'll explore the dynamics, challenges, and benefits of having friends of the opposite
sex.
What makes these relationships unique and how can we navigate them in a way that's healthy
(02:23):
and respectful?
It's been an incredible journey with you all through these 10 episodes and we're thrilled
to end our season on such a thought-provoking note.
So grab your favorite beverage, settle in, and let's get into it.
Here's to exploring Our Life Beyond.
Hello, Scott.
Hello, Connie.
It's number 10, the big number 10.
(02:44):
Oh, we didn't even know if we'd get to this point.
Well, if you remember at the beginning, we had the conversation when we first started
the podcast and I'm like, we have got to commit to 10, Connie.
We have to because we don't know where it goes until we get to 10.
So we've got there.
Very good.
So what do you think?
Are we going to continue on?
I think so.
I'm excited because I think season two, we have some plans for, some discussions about.
(03:10):
So our listeners stay tuned for season two.
But I think this episode is going to be one of the probably the most fun, probably the
most authentic.
And I think we are pretty, I think we know our stuff on this one.
How's that?
Yeah, of course we do.
(03:30):
I mean, let's be honest, the podcast wouldn't exist unless this happened.
I think we've navigated a lot of different challenges along the way in staying with our
friendship being male and female.
And not only that, I can tell you right now, Connie, honestly, I'm a better person because
(03:51):
of it.
I absolutely am too.
So why don't we talk about our beginnings?
Okay.
You want to go there?
When you say our beginnings, what do you mean?
Well, how we started, we were friends, we were acquaintances more in school.
Yes.
And start from, you know, just briefly how we became such good friends.
(04:13):
Okay, perfect.
So of course, we went to the same school together, middle school through high school.
I knew Connie, we weren't in the same crowds.
But I mean, I always thought Connie was super nice.
She was seemed like a great person to be around.
I don't even know if I was in any classes with you.
But outside of that, I lost where you went, as you probably do with a lot of people outside
(04:39):
of high school, because we went down very different paths.
And the next thing you know, I'm on Facebook.
And I think I may have connected with you, you connected, however that happened, I'm
sure I reached out and connected with you.
But I started looking through your Facebook profile.
And lo and behold, Connie is redoing houses.
(05:03):
And honestly, that's the first thing that I noticed.
You're redoing houses and you're doing all this.
I'm in the middle of a house remodel at that particular time.
And I'm like, okay, I need to reach out to Connie and see if we can meet.
And I would love to start having some discussions on contractors, subcontractors, what I need
to do on the house, because I was newly divorced, trying to figure out how to put a house together.
(05:27):
Fun.
Do you so my perspective is a little different.
Sure.
Yes, we were friends.
I mean, we were acquaintances in school.
I remember getting a message from one of our friends and saying, Hey, there's a bunch of
us getting together.
Do you want to come meet?
Well, my first thought because somewhere along the way, I had seen that somebody was creating
(05:55):
beer or wine or something.
I don't even know what it was at this point.
But I was like, these guys are getting ready to start a brewery and they need an investor.
That was my first thought in this actually.
Really?
Yes.
And you guys were asking me to meet.
And I thought, I'm interested to know about this.
(06:18):
And so I went and met you guys at that bar.
Yes.
What do you call it at bar restaurant?
And it was nothing like what I thought.
We all just sat around and talked and laughed.
And you and I hit it off because I was sitting next to you.
And we hit it off and just, I think, chuckled a lot and started talking from there.
(06:48):
It was just a lot of fun.
And that is when our close friendship started.
Little did I know I could have got you as an investor.
I had no idea.
Now I'm rethinking everything I did.
No.
Well, see, and I will only invest in the sex, drugs, rock and roll because if something
happens to the economy, that's what continues to survive.
(07:09):
That is so true.
Yes.
But it was really cool.
And to be honest, it confused the hell out of all my friends the closer we got.
And that's why I think this episode is kind of cool.
Really?
Okay.
Yeah.
Let's get into that.
So let's talk a little bit about the benefits of our friendship then because maybe that's
(07:34):
what people didn't understand or didn't see.
Yeah.
Well, when I was single, and to be quite honest, until we met up that first time, I didn't
know you were single.
Once again, I knew you were redoing houses, you were flipping houses, you were in the
real estate market.
And I just thought this is a really good person for me to connect with, understand more.
(07:57):
And that's really where I thought it was.
But as we started getting closer and closer, everybody's like, hey, so you're dating Connie
and hey, you're dating Connie.
And I remember one got into my truck because we started doing a lot.
I mean, we went to a concert together.
I remember we went and had several drinks and dinners and stuff, but I remember getting
into my truck once and the friend of mine got into the seat or the passenger seat and
(08:20):
looked over.
And when I went to phones because it didn't connect my phone right off your phone, it
said Connie's phone.
And they're like, Connie's phone's even attached to your truck.
What does this mean?
Were you driving by my house?
No, no, it was just showing the phones that had...
Just remember how that would happen.
Yes.
It was showing the phones that had connected to my truck.
I guess it makes a special relationship when you let somebody connect their phone to your
(08:42):
car.
I don't know.
That's weird.
Oh, okay.
Got it.
Interesting.
But yeah.
And let me start with the benefits for me.
For me, once again, I had been divorced a little while.
I was dating.
We'll get into a dating series, hopefully in season two, and we can talk about a bunch
(09:04):
of fun stuff there.
But as I'm navigating dating and once again, my house and my kid and all of this stuff
that I felt like was on me, I needed somebody to bounce a lot of ideas off of.
And I had a lot of guy friends, and please don't get me wrong, they are great, but guys
are guys.
(09:27):
We don't necessarily understand the opposite sex a lot of times, especially in the dating.
So I just remember, Connie, I would come back from a date or I'd come back from something
and I would go, what the hell, Connie?
What am I doing wrong?
Or what does she mean by this?
Or what the hell is going on?
And you could explain it better than anybody could.
(09:47):
That was huge for me.
Right.
I think that was a huge part for both of us.
We were at the same place in our life.
We were both...
Rob had been passed away for a little over a year when you and I connected, I believe.
Yeah.
And the story for me was, my therapist said, you have to start dating.
(10:12):
And I was like, hell no.
But when I finally started dating, it was really nice to have somebody of the opposite
sex to bounce things off of.
Oh, one of my...
Oh, go ahead.
Sorry.
No, go ahead.
I was going to say, it also gave me so much confidence as a woman to stand up for myself
(10:34):
and create boundaries because I had this friend that was a male who was like, well, that's
not right.
Why is he treating you like that?
Or that's not very respectful, Connie.
And I went, I didn't think it was either, but I just kind of thought guys were like
that.
And the reality is, is that it was not true.
You demanded a higher ethic from people than I think a lot of women do, even though they
(11:03):
know they deserve it.
And so it was easy for me to be like, oh, he was a complete jerk.
And you're like, yep, he was.
And hearing it from somebody of the same sex was so nice.
So my favorite, favorite part was in the beginning, I do remember when your therapist said, you
need to start dating and you come to me and you're like, they want me to date, you know,
(11:26):
online dating, all the profiles is a big thing.
Two things I remember that was so fun to me.
I'm helping you on one of the sites, create the profile.
And I'm like, we're done.
Are you good with it?
And you're like, yes.
And I hit submit or launch.
And you're like, what?
You submitted that?
And you were, I could see the, or I could hear the anxiety.
(11:48):
You're like, holy shit.
I'm going to have to start dealing with this now, which was fun.
And the second one is when you were trying to, you know, it's funny because I was, I
think another podcast I was listening to was talking about online dating.
They call it window shopping.
And when you were window shopping, you know, left and right, occasionally you'd call me
and you're like, what do you think about this person?
(12:10):
And I remember trying me and I think your son tried to get you to go down the path of
a guy named Wayne.
And you went ahead, reached out to him.
And of course he was, he was a crazy lunatic of some sort.
And it was so fun because I, I felt like I helped you to see the lighter side of dating,
(12:31):
I guess.
You did.
It was you and Philip did some of the funniest stuff.
You're like, okay.
I would send you like, put this in the text and send this to him.
And Philip would be like, yeah, mom and do this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that was kind of funny, but, but having a male friend.
So I've always had male friends.
(12:54):
So starting pretty early.
Yeah.
Starting pretty early, I guess, seventh grade next door was a family of boys and where I
was close with all of them, there was one in particular I was very close with and being,
being a preteen, I guess, being a preteen, I started learning that my image of boys and
(13:22):
what society or what TV was telling teenage girls about boys was not actually true.
Like the boys I was around, they were fun.
They were all boy, but they were respectful to me.
They were like brothers.
They kept an eye out for me.
And to this day, I'm still very close to those boys.
(13:44):
But I also learned that it was easier to talk to boys a lot of times because they weren't
offended as easily.
And I'm not an offensive person, but sometimes to tiptoe or to, you know, around certain
subjects that might be tough with girls, you have to be a little more sensitive.
(14:06):
Guys, it's not quite the same.
And so I really enjoyed that aspect of my friendships.
And then when I got married, I kind of lost all my guy friends.
And that was just because my husband was my friend.
Sure.
You know, he was...
(14:27):
It was that season of your life, really.
I mean, yeah.
I don't know that he would have been really receptive to me having a very, very, very
close guy friend.
I think he was fine with my friendship with the boys from next door because he knew it
was like a brother-sister friendship.
(14:49):
But when he passed away, it was just, you know, something that was easy for me to transition
to.
I mean, don't get me wrong.
I am a girl's girl.
I have probably half a dozen girls that I absolutely would go to war with.
(15:10):
Will protect them.
They will protect me.
So it's not like I gravitate towards guys, but guys' friendships are much easier in a
lot of respects.
So when you and I met, that happened to be the case.
It was just a lot easier because I didn't have to tiptoe around anything.
(15:32):
And you know, we never even went down the path of should we date?
It never was like that.
It was really just a great friendship from the beginning.
And that's where I think it confused the friends I was with because everybody's like, oh, you're
dating Honey.
When are you guys going to start dating?
Is she not ready?
You know, all this stuff.
And I'm like, no, you don't understand.
This is different.
(15:53):
And you know, I don't know if it's like getting special secrets from the other side by knowing
you.
But what's funny is that's what it feels like.
It does because I can come to you and say, I don't understand this.
Or I can come to you.
Perfect example is whenever we was talking about proposing to Ellen, I'm like, hey, this
is what I'm thinking.
(16:14):
I'm going to do this.
And you're like, holy shit.
Don't you do that.
Now, if I would have went to a guy, we would have probably been going down that path.
And it was probably pretty shitty path to go down.
But I promise you, from my view, I am a much more well-rounded person because of this.
(16:34):
And that's the truth.
Well, I am glad to hear that.
But I think it's just women and men, I don't believe they cannot be friends.
You know, we as a society have kind of made that a thing.
And so what do you think it takes?
You and I have this beautiful friendship.
(16:56):
But what do you think it takes to defy those societal expectations of men and women friendships?
You know, for me, it's easier now.
So you know, before, it would have been a challenge.
(17:17):
Whenever I was married, it would have been a challenge to have had a female friend.
It really would have been.
And it was just the relationship.
It was just, I don't know, you know, from being 19 and growing up with that person,
it's similar to what you said with your, the husband that passed away, Rob.
You know, when you get into a relationship and you never have any friends that are the
(17:40):
opposite sex and all at once you bring one in, I think that feels very wrong to the other
person if you're not careful.
And I understand that aspect.
I do.
I am lucky because the season in life I'm in, you know, we got divorced and even before,
and right now if I found another friend, I honestly have three or four different friends
(18:00):
that are girls that Ellen is completely fine with.
But two things for me is that was one of the things that was in my, I told you I had an
Excel sheet on what I needed out of a relationship.
And one of them was being okay with a relationship with, you know, me having a friend that's
a woman.
(18:21):
And she absolutely is.
But what made it easier, I think either way it would have been okay.
What's really made it easier is you guys connect now.
Maybe I know not near as much as me and you, Connie, are talking, but I know for a fact
you Margot Polo her and she does back and forth even when she's on the road and stuff.
And she loves it.
And she tells me, you know, what's, do you know what's going on in Connie's?
(18:45):
And it's a shock to me that sometimes she'll tell me something and I'm like, what?
I had no freaking idea.
I talked to Connie every day.
But it's just, I think it's become healthy and easy because of that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think that's, that's one aspect of being able to be friends past society is that our
(19:07):
significant others are okay with it.
Because Jeff loves you.
I mean, you were, you married us.
Yeah.
And you know what I love about what you do with Jeff and this is part of that.
Not making anything a secret, not making it feel that it's wrong.
I can call Connie on a Wednesday at 10 o'clock and she'll answer the phone in the car and
(19:32):
it's throughout the car.
And I'm talking to Jeff and Connie.
She's not like, Oh, this is Scott.
I better get it on my phone and not let it go.
You know what I mean?
It is just, that's, that's been our whole, our whole relationship is, you know, it's,
there is nothing to hide and there never will be anything to hide.
I think that's what makes our significant others okay with the relationship.
(19:54):
I think for me, having a time period in my life.
So when I was first married, we were young, you know, we still have all the insecurities.
We have, you know, all the young brain crap is the only way I know how to put it.
(20:20):
And when something, when you go through a huge transition, divorce, death, anything
like that, and you find a friend and you realize how important that friendship is, you're not
willing to let go of those things.
And that is where, just like you said, my spreadsheet said, I have to have, I get to
(20:41):
have girlfriends.
Yes.
Same for me.
I, if I found a man who was jealous or was like, no, you're not going to be friends with
that person.
I would have been like, okay, well, you're adorable.
It's just not going to work, you know?
But on the other hand, if I thought that, let's say you had made the moves on me and
(21:04):
my significant other side, then I would understand.
So there's got to be a real sense of security, trust, boundaries.
And I think we do that perfectly.
But I also think, and it may be because of the point in time, the season in our life
we're at, the relationships that we started at our age are, we chose someone at our age
(21:31):
instead of having someone since 18 or 19.
So I think there's this, and I'm going to probably word it improperly, but there's this
level of trust that I have with Ellen and you have with Jeff that I don't know a lot
of people have.
And the reason is because when I brought her into my world and had a relationship, you
(21:55):
were already there and I brought you with me, along with some other friends, and she
became friends with you, right now I could even go out and say, hey, you know what?
I'm going to go run with someone that's a female down here that's going to make me a
better runner and blah, blah, blah, blah.
She would have no problem because she has the confidence that I've not ever had in any
(22:18):
other relationship.
And confidence probably isn't, it's the trust.
There is nothing in there.
Also, and you said this Connie, it's funny because we talked about this beforehand, and
this is another thing I love about you and the way you hold yourself in life in a sense.
You said, you know, that you honestly, if you ever seen me or would see me go out and
(22:43):
do something that's inappropriate, you would come to me and say, hey, are you telling Ellen
or am I?
Because this isn't right.
Absolutely.
You're going to hold me to that too.
Yeah.
There's just a foundation in the world of respect and my theory is if you stand on that
foundation, you're not going to go wrong no matter what happens.
(23:05):
Sometimes it's hard, but honesty, respect, creating boundaries, I'm huge into that.
And so I would do that for Ellen if you were screwing up and I would do that for you if
Ellen were screwing up.
And I would expect the same of you.
Absolutely.
With me and Jeff.
And I think that's the thing that maintains the male-female friendship is that we know
(23:32):
our place.
You know, if at some point Ellen said to you, I'm really uncomfortable with your and Connie's
relationship and it is making me not want to be in this relationship, but I love you.
If you called me and said, Connie, I can't do this anymore, I would be like, absolutely.
I respect that.
I respect your relationship with her.
(23:52):
You go.
Yeah, of course.
And I would do the same, man, that would be tough and it would take some discussion, let's
be honest.
We might be a little codependent, but that's okay.
Yeah, probably a lot.
So let's jump over what's in and I know we need to probably see it outside of our view,
(24:13):
but what do you think the biggest challenges are in having a relationship like this today?
Ooh, jealousy for girls.
Really?
Yeah.
So I told you about, you know, the young relationship I had with boys and I learned at a young age
that girls can be very, very jealous where my boyfriends weren't jealous of the relationship
(24:40):
I had with those boys, but their girlfriends were jealous of the relationship those boys
had with me.
So you think it's different for a girl than a guy, woman, man?
From my experience, I would say yes.
And even you and I have talked about this and you didn't see it, but I feel like I felt
(25:01):
it.
You had dated and there was somebody that you liked and I was around her and there was
a chill in the air every time I was around.
Interesting.
And she even knew I was dating Jeff at the time, but there was a big chill in the air.
And so I could just feel it.
(25:23):
And I am, you know how I feel about my own intuition.
I trust it like nobody's business.
And I was just like, oh, and I didn't know as an adult, I didn't know how to handle it
because I want my friend to be happy.
I always want to be in your life, but if you and this woman would have gotten together,
I don't think I could have been.
I don't think she would have allowed that eventually.
(25:45):
Oh, wow.
And I didn't see it from my side, of course.
You probably protected me in a sense by not telling me all that.
Interesting.
What do you think it is from a guy's standpoint?
Okay, so we could go two different directions.
The biggest challenge as a guy, we get put in situations sometimes that we need to be
(26:07):
able to be completely honest with you.
Allow us to do that.
And I think it's easier for women to come and tell men than it is men to tell women.
And let me back up and explain that a little bit more.
And I think I did explain it to you in a sense before we did the episode.
But you know, if I go over and I find a running group that I'm going to go run with and one
(26:31):
time I go over there and the only people that show up are two females that show up, who
cares what age, I don't even know.
And I run with just two females in that group and we go run our regular training run.
Allow me to come home and tell you that.
And you know, if there's some challenges, okay, we can talk through it.
(26:51):
But you know, from my past experiences, even dating, not just being married, and that's
why I said I have to be able to be friends with women, is because I have experienced
where I would go run with two females or whatever that would look like.
And I was told that was inappropriate or it didn't feel right to them.
(27:12):
And it always made me feel bad.
But if you're not careful, what ends up happening is whenever you go back to that running center
and two girls show up again, two things are going to happen.
I'm either not going to do it or I'm going to do it and not tell you.
And I promise you nothing was going on.
But it makes it awkward on the guy because it could be anything like that.
(27:34):
I mean, I could go to a brewery and I could go by myself.
I went to one last night.
And what if what if a girl come up and start talking to me and sat down at the table, and
it was someone that I've known for a long time, I need to be able to tell that my person
that the next day and not be concerned about what they think or that I shouldn't have done
that because that the societal image that I can't talk to another female or I can't
(27:59):
do this or that is utter bullshit and it needs to stop.
I absolutely agree with that.
And that's the thing.
I think to have complete freedom with your spouse or with your significant other.
Number one, it allows you to love them more.
(28:21):
But it also allows them to know you're always going to be trustworthy because you don't
have to hide things from them.
And I don't know where this whole thought process of guys are always going to cheat
or be shitty to women.
I don't I don't run into a lot of guys who are like that.
You know, even in dating, you and I have talked about this and I was always like, there were
(28:45):
some silly things that guys would do.
But at no time did I like run into just a completely shitty guy.
And part of that, let me just I'll preface this.
Part of it was I was very good in standing my ground and standing with my boundaries.
(29:09):
But even in that, when I would immediately like be turned off by a guy, it wasn't maybe
because they were crappy to me.
It could have been something else.
So I don't know where guys turn into the bad guy.
Well, I want to go with that for a second.
I want to paint another picture.
Tell me I'm wrong.
Which you will.
(29:32):
Let's say there is a guy that's going to cheat.
It just happens.
Do you really think that his mindset or being something wrong in a relationship that makes
him cheat?
It could be him.
I'm not saying it's the whole relationship.
Do you think that that's going to change because he goes and runs with a girl or talks to someone
(29:52):
or no, it doesn't.
That interaction with the person is not going to be the reason that he ends up cheating.
If he's going to cheat, he's going to cheat.
It has nothing to do with he ended up running with somebody at the running clinic here in
the town or he started talking to somebody that worked at the brewery.
(30:16):
It's just in my opinion, if a guy's going to cheat, he's going to cheat.
We shouldn't be nitpicking these very little things that's causing it because that is not
the cause.
That's not the root cause because someone started talking to him.
Right.
I would-
Fix what's up above that, not nitpick the little issue because I had a conversation
(30:40):
about something.
Right.
Right.
That's my opinion.
I agree completely with that.
I think our first defense is that we are completely honest with our significant other.
We put them above anything and everything else and we allow them to ask any question
that they need to of our friendship.
(31:02):
Our two don't actually have to ask questions because they're pretty much in the friendship.
They are.
I mean, the reality is we can all sit down and hang out and nobody's hearing very much
new information.
We had to get to that point.
We had to find those people who were willing to be open to that.
I'm going to go a little bit deeper and finding that person that has that trust and being
(31:26):
able to be trustworthy, I understand it doesn't take much for that to go away in a relationship,
that trust.
But I have an individual that I do a lot of talking about running because she actually
lives on the East Coast and I live here.
We talked about coming together this year to do a half marathon because of some medical
(31:47):
things that come up.
I said, I can't do it now, but that's the only reason.
But from day one, we've talked back and forth about running and doing all this stuff.
Occasionally she would come to town for work and we would go run.
Ellen knows all about this and met her once or twice, maybe twice, I don't know.
(32:09):
They've talked and they had a great conversation.
Outside of that though, Ellen's like, go do your thing.
It doesn't bother her in the least.
But I also want to say that you have to talk to that person because not every person's
going to be that way.
You said it perfectly and in one of our episodes before this, we talked about seats on the
bus, if you remember, switching seats around and everything.
(32:32):
Your significant other has to be in the passenger seat.
They have to be able to explain concerns.
They have to be able to voice their opinion and you have to listen to it and you have
to be okay coming up with a solution that's good for you and them both to fix that.
If that is okay, I won't fly anywhere and be able, whatever that is, I think you can
(32:54):
still come up with a solution that fits it.
But you have to allow them to have that.
That's the bigger issue.
I've heard you and Ellen both say the same statement, oh, he'll talk to anybody.
Oh, she'll talk to anybody.
You both know that about the other person and I think that's the other part of this
is for you and I to have a friendship and for you to have friendship with other women,
(33:20):
your most important person has to know you well.
And they have to know they're the most important.
Exactly.
So I think that's kind of a huge part of this too is I guess ultimately as we're explaining
all of this, the way we've kept our friendship is we have put our significant other first.
(33:41):
They have known their first.
They know every ounce of us.
They know every ounce of our friendship even and they're okay with it and we keep it that
way.
We are 100% open and honest.
So did Jeff ever question and just because I don't know I've ever asked this, I mean,
we've been close from the very beginning when you and Jeff started dating.
(34:04):
Did he ever question our relationship?
No, I think the only time that he ever mentioned anything to me, this is the funniest thing,
was on my birthday at Jim's.
And I remember that day.
No, you do not.
Sort of.
And that is what's so funny is because Jeff looked at me and he goes, man, when Scott
(34:28):
gets drunk, he gets a little friendly maybe because he was watching you not just with
me with everyone.
I'm just a friendly guy.
We were laughing so hard about that.
That's the only thing he's ever said.
And if you remember, he had only been in our life seven months.
So now he is seen every, I mean, you know, almost three years later, he's like, yeah,
(34:54):
okay, that's normal.
That's the, but he didn't question the friendship.
I think if he would have questioned it, he would have been like somebody else is going
to marry us.
So yeah, well, that's true, I guess.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
Ellen?
No, not at all.
I mean, Ellen, from day one, almost Ellen's loved you to death because you guys, it was
(35:15):
so easy on my side because you guys hit it off as friends and she's great with people.
And easy.
So easy.
I mean, we went down to the lake once with another friends of ours and she still talks
back and forth with two people from down there that lives in Springfield.
I don't even know who they are.
And I've probably been down there a dozen times and she went once.
(35:37):
And you know, once again, going back to, I knew what I needed my next relationship.
I needed trust.
I needed to be able to, to be able to have the male female relationship like this as
friends and be okay with it.
And I could not have asked for anybody that's any better at that.
So let's talk about, because we've gotten off onto our significant others, because the
(35:59):
reality is, is they have been amazing in allowing us our friendship.
Yes.
But what do you get out of the friendship?
What do I get out of the friendship today?
Well, first of all, I mean, we wouldn't have this, we wouldn't have this podcast if we
didn't have the friendship.
What I do like is even, even though you're not in the tech industry, and I am, I can
(36:24):
talk to you about business.
I can talk to you about challenges.
I can talk to you about those types of things.
And once again, I get a different view from you than I do guys typically.
And it's neat.
It's neat to have that.
And if I'm going to try and come up with something unique for Ellen, you know Ellen well enough
(36:45):
that I can get a female's perspective, Hey, what about this?
You know, what if I get this?
You know, all of all of that stuff helps when you've got a, when I've got someone that's
a woman that I can talk to.
And, and I hate that a lot of people don't have that.
Yeah, I agree with that.
I think it's something that's missing, especially in women's lives.
(37:08):
Even when I went and picked out a ring.
I have no idea what type of ring.
So I started messaging one of her best friends and you know, I never in my head once ever
thought it was inappropriate that I'm messing with, of course I'm messaging about a ring
for Ellen, but you know, in the relationship I am with Ellen, I don't even think about
(37:30):
that just because it's not a subject that we are worried about today.
Now this could change a month from now.
I don't know, but we, we have this level of trust that at any point in time, she wants
to see my phone.
I want to see it.
I mean, there's never, never anything inappropriate and I don't think there's any worries and
it just makes life easier.
Right.
(37:50):
And here's the thing when you and I have a conversation, if I say something to you, normally
what ends up happening is I'm on Marco Polo talking to Ellen and then I'm like, oh, by
the way, I told Scott this and cause pretty much I need her to back me.
Let's face it, you know, I don't want to be the only one on this team, but yeah, she'll
(38:12):
know what we usually talk about too.
You know what I mean?
It's not like we have anything back.
And do you know how nice it is for me as a guy at any point in time, Connie, I would
reach out to you or you and Jeff either one, but I could just reach out to you and say,
Hey, Connie, Wednesday, you got time for lunch.
And I don't have to worry about people thinking things.
(38:32):
Yeah.
Yep.
I, and, and I'll tell you one place that I had worked at one time, there were some individuals
at that work that did not believe that none of that should happen.
There shouldn't be no interaction between male and females at that.
And it's just, it's weird.
That's not the way society should be set up in my opinion.
Right.
And we all know that there are people who have overstepped those boundaries.
(38:54):
Well that's going to happen with or without you having friendships with other sex.
Well because that's sometimes where people are.
I think again, the benefits of having a friend of the opposite sex for me is that I don't
have to sugarcoat things.
Again, I always try and respect, be respectful, but I don't have to sugarcoat things with
(39:17):
you.
And there is something else that you understand that a lot of women don't understand.
So if you and I are in a conversation and I start feeling emotional about it, what do
I do?
Oh yes, you tell me, I need to get off the phone.
I want to sit on this for a little while.
Yeah.
(39:38):
You understand that.
It doesn't drive you crazy where as a woman we go, oh crap, what did we do wrong?
What's this?
What's that?
What's the other?
What's da da da da da?
And sometimes it gets the best of us and we'll start bugging that person.
Where for me, the reason I do that is because I grew up in a family where emotions ruled.
(40:05):
And I believe that decisions made purely on emotion can be really, really detrimental.
And so when I feel emotions coming on, I always want to back out of it and go to a logical
place instead of staying in that emotional place.
And you allow that.
And that way our friendship, I can take a break for a moment and come back and say,
(40:25):
hey, okay, so our conversation, let's resume it.
This is how I was feeling.
But then I started thinking and this is that.
And you go, okay, great.
Jeff does the same thing with me from a relationship standpoint.
Sure.
But friendships a lot of times don't allow those things to happen and you did.
(40:45):
And that has been huge for me to be able to be myself and back out of something and come
back and revisit it.
And it's okay.
I remember one of the instances because I was driving to a dinner somewhere and we were
on the phone.
I was in my truck and I sort of remember what we were talking about.
But the difference in our friendship and honestly, I know I probably wouldn't challenge a guy
(41:09):
as much as I did you.
And the reason is, it's not that I do think of you as a sister in a sense, but it's even
more than that.
I know what you deserve.
I know what you shouldn't have to put up with.
And I remember talking to you about something and it may have been something that happened
previously.
And I just basically, I remember saying, why in the hell did you let that happen?
(41:31):
And I was challenging you harder than I probably would any other person.
And that's when you said, okay, I need to get off the phone.
I need to sit on this a while.
But the reason you weren't screaming at me, because two guys, a lot of times if you challenge
to a certain point, that's when they start fist fighting or cussing each other or you
know what I mean?
Because I remember that and if it would have been a guy at that point, we probably wouldn't
(41:55):
have been friends after that.
But you allowed me to express what I thought you needed and it wasn't something you wanted
to hear at that time.
But you were okay by the next day you said, you know what, you were right, but you're
not so an asshole and I said, yes, I am.
And we talked through it.
Right.
And I think that's the difference.
(42:15):
And maybe it is the difference between two males and two females because you said if
that had been another male, it could have gotten emotional where I know with another
female it would have gotten emotional.
And so I think maybe, you know, it's just a friendship ourselves.
I don't know.
Now as we're sitting here going through this, I'm like male and female relationships, how
do you make them happen?
(42:37):
And sometimes it's just finding a person that you can be completely honest, vulnerable and
open with and say whatever it is you need and still be over respectful.
Let's jump into the next subject.
And I think this is the last one that we've got.
But how do we maintain this?
Are we going to maintain this until we get old?
(42:58):
Well, I would hope so.
You know, and I sit here and I think about it and I think, you know, there's a lot of
friendships that ebb and flow and that's okay.
It's that bus scenario where you're driving the bus and people switch seats.
And I just as far as maintaining, I don't know how we can't because you and I, again,
(43:19):
a little codependent in the fact that we have to talk to each other every day, even if it's
something like sending you a stupid meme.
You know, we've got days where we don't actually talk.
But I'm like, oh, this is funny, Scott would think this was hilarious.
It could be something as simple as that.
But I think just always being honest and open and respectful to our spouses is the way we'll
(43:47):
maintain our friendship.
You know, I would I'm trying to think of how to put this.
You really can't I can't have a relationship or I'm sorry, I can't have a conversation
with you that I wouldn't feel okay talking to Ellen about.
Yes, I think that's that's key.
You can't have a conversation that you wouldn't have with or wouldn't tell her about.
(44:12):
I can't have that.
Correct.
And I would never put you in that position.
Yes, I love that.
I love that.
I think that's kind of key.
And like I said before, it's it's cool to me because I can call you and you'll be in
the car and you'll put on speaker and next thing I know it's me you and Jeff all talking
about something.
It's that open that easy.
(44:33):
There's nothing that's hidden whatsoever in it.
And I just think it makes it easier.
And for me, I can tell you I get a whole nother side and view of the world that I don't get
as a guy.
Same here.
I get the guys point of view.
It's like you said, it's like we tell each other or we find out the secret of the like
(44:54):
I find out the secret of the male human their thought process when I talk to you and you
find out the female process.
And that's a secret to men.
You know, we seem to bridge that gap when we talk to each other.
All right.
I think we've I think we've went as far as we can go with this.
So you think you want to close it up now, Connie?
(45:16):
Well, I think we can close it up.
So if you were planning or if you have friendships of the opposite sex, I would actually encourage
you to have a friendship of the opposite sex if you are comfortable or if you are making
your spouse comfortable enough, because it has enriched my life immensely.
(45:36):
And I believe it's enriched your life immensely, too.
And my hope is what you get out of this is that your first priority is your significant
other, your spouse, your children.
Your second priority is bountiful friendships, whether they be opposite sex or just, you
know, the same sex.
(45:57):
But I love having the opposite sex as a friendship because I do learn something different.
I'm going to add one thing to that.
You know, for me being friends with you, my first concern is always going to be Ellen
or my first thing that I have to respect.
The second thing is Jeff and then you.
(46:17):
And that's true, because in order for me to stay friends with you, I have to make sure
Jeff's OK, too.
Not just not just Ellen, because Ellen's only one side of it.
So I have to make sure that I do that.
And you know, that may take a little more effort and it probably does.
But I can tell you right now, it in my opinion is so much worth it.
(46:38):
We've been able to have conversations I would have never had.
I'm a much more well rounded person.
I probably know shit about women I shouldn't know.
And some that I probably should have known way before now.
And that's all because of you, Connie.
Absolutely.
I agree with that.
All right.
And with that, I want to say thank you so much, Connie, for doing a complete season
(46:59):
of this podcast with me.
I think it's been awesome.
It's been a huge learning experience for me.
I hope it has been for you.
But I'm so excited to pick up next season, figure out what we're going to do and the
direction we're going to go.
I am excited about that as well.
So hopefully our listeners tune in to next season as well as this season.
(47:20):
If you haven't heard any of the other podcasts, go back and listen to them.
We have some beautiful stories, some beautiful guests, and we will see you next season.
Okay, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Our Life Beyond.
We really hope that you found our discussion insightful and inspiring or at least brought
(47:41):
a smile to your day.
If you did enjoy this episode, please consider subscribing to the podcast on your favorite
platform and leave us a review.
For more information, resources, or show notes, visit our website at ourlifebeyond.com.
You can also follow us on social media.
Search for us on Facebook at Our Life Beyond.
We would love to hear from you, our listeners, so feel free to reach out with your questions,
(48:05):
comments, or suggestions through our Contact Us page at ourlifebeyond.com or on social
media.
And once again, thank you for joining us on this journey.
Till next time, remember, life beyond any challenge is possible and we're here to navigate
it with you.
Stay strong, stay positive, and keep moving forward.
Well, hello, hello, hello.
(00:09):
Welcome to our Life Beyond the podcast where we explore how to navigate and hopefully thrive
through some of life's biggest transitions.
I'm your co-host Scott Dibben and I've teamed up with my great friend and mentor, Connie
King to share some stories, strategies and insights that helped us adapt to the ever-changing
seasons of our life.
(00:30):
Whether your life transition is divorce, death of a loved one, switching careers, moving
to a new city or just trying to figure out what the hell is next, we're with you every
step of the way.
But always remember, we're not therapists, just fellow travelers with a knack for finding
humor in the chaos and maybe some untraditional method of overcoming what life dishes out
(00:51):
to us.
Hopefully you'll have fun embarking on this journey.
So now let's get started.
I want to give a special thank you to Habit Coffee for sponsoring us.
So if you're local to Springfield, you're probably aware of the miserable construction
at Highway 60 and Farm Road 125 heading into Rogersville.
(01:14):
Yeah, right in the midst of all that progress is the Habit Coffee Company, a fantastic local
vagina-owned business.
They're more than just a coffee shop, they serve delicious scratch-made breakfast and
lunch options.
They have a state and county inspected kitchen and they love catering events.
While it might take a bit of extra effort to reach them right now, they're excited
(01:37):
about the upcoming expansion when the highway reopens this fall.
Support the Habit Coffee Company and enjoy their incredible offerings today.
Thank you so much, Habit Coffee.
Welcome to Our Life Beyond, the podcast where we dive deep into the questions and conversations
that shape our lives.
I'm Connie King and I'm joined by my good friend, Scott Dibbin.
(02:00):
We're so excited you're joining us for this special episode.
Today we're wrapping up our first season with a topic that's sure to spark some interesting
discussions, opposite sex friendships.
We'll explore the dynamics, challenges, and benefits of having friends of the opposite
sex.
What makes these relationships unique and how can we navigate them in a way that's healthy
(02:23):
and respectful?
It's been an incredible journey with you all through these 10 episodes and we're thrilled
to end our season on such a thought-provoking note.
So grab your favorite beverage, settle in, and let's get into it.
Here's to exploring Our Life Beyond.
Hello, Scott.
Hello, Connie.
It's number 10, the big number 10.
(02:44):
Oh, we didn't even know if we'd get to this point.
Well, if you remember at the beginning, we had the conversation when we first started
the podcast and I'm like, we have got to commit to 10, Connie.
We have to because we don't know where it goes until we get to 10.
So we've got there.
Very good.
So what do you think?
Are we going to continue on?
I think so.
I'm excited because I think season two, we have some plans for, some discussions about.
(03:10):
So our listeners stay tuned for season two.
But I think this episode is going to be one of the probably the most fun, probably the
most authentic.
And I think we are pretty, I think we know our stuff on this one.
How's that?
Yeah, of course we do.
(03:30):
I mean, let's be honest, the podcast wouldn't exist unless this happened.
I think we've navigated a lot of different challenges along the way in staying with our
friendship being male and female.
And not only that, I can tell you right now, Connie, honestly, I'm a better person because
(03:51):
of it.
I absolutely am too.
So why don't we talk about our beginnings?
Okay.
You want to go there?
When you say our beginnings, what do you mean?
Well, how we started, we were friends, we were acquaintances more in school.
Yes.
And start from, you know, just briefly how we became such good friends.
(04:13):
Okay, perfect.
So of course, we went to the same school together, middle school through high school.
I knew Connie, we weren't in the same crowds.
But I mean, I always thought Connie was super nice.
She was seemed like a great person to be around.
I don't even know if I was in any classes with you.
But outside of that, I lost where you went, as you probably do with a lot of people outside
(04:39):
of high school, because we went down very different paths.
And the next thing you know, I'm on Facebook.
And I think I may have connected with you, you connected, however that happened, I'm
sure I reached out and connected with you.
But I started looking through your Facebook profile.
And lo and behold, Connie is redoing houses.
(05:03):
And honestly, that's the first thing that I noticed.
You're redoing houses and you're doing all this.
I'm in the middle of a house remodel at that particular time.
And I'm like, okay, I need to reach out to Connie and see if we can meet.
And I would love to start having some discussions on contractors, subcontractors, what I need
to do on the house, because I was newly divorced, trying to figure out how to put a house together.
(05:27):
Fun.
Do you so my perspective is a little different.
Sure.
Yes, we were friends.
I mean, we were acquaintances in school.
I remember getting a message from one of our friends and saying, Hey, there's a bunch of
us getting together.
Do you want to come meet?
Well, my first thought because somewhere along the way, I had seen that somebody was creating
(05:55):
beer or wine or something.
I don't even know what it was at this point.
But I was like, these guys are getting ready to start a brewery and they need an investor.
That was my first thought in this actually.
Really?
Yes.
And you guys were asking me to meet.
And I thought, I'm interested to know about this.
(06:18):
And so I went and met you guys at that bar.
Yes.
What do you call it at bar restaurant?
And it was nothing like what I thought.
We all just sat around and talked and laughed.
And you and I hit it off because I was sitting next to you.
And we hit it off and just, I think, chuckled a lot and started talking from there.
(06:48):
It was just a lot of fun.
And that is when our close friendship started.
Little did I know I could have got you as an investor.
I had no idea.
Now I'm rethinking everything I did.
No.
Well, see, and I will only invest in the sex, drugs, rock and roll because if something
happens to the economy, that's what continues to survive.
(07:09):
That is so true.
Yes.
But it was really cool.
And to be honest, it confused the hell out of all my friends the closer we got.
And that's why I think this episode is kind of cool.
Really?
Okay.
Yeah.
Let's get into that.
So let's talk a little bit about the benefits of our friendship then because maybe that's
(07:34):
what people didn't understand or didn't see.
Yeah.
Well, when I was single, and to be quite honest, until we met up that first time, I didn't
know you were single.
Once again, I knew you were redoing houses, you were flipping houses, you were in the
real estate market.
And I just thought this is a really good person for me to connect with, understand more.
(07:57):
And that's really where I thought it was.
But as we started getting closer and closer, everybody's like, hey, so you're dating Connie
and hey, you're dating Connie.
And I remember one got into my truck because we started doing a lot.
I mean, we went to a concert together.
I remember we went and had several drinks and dinners and stuff, but I remember getting
into my truck once and the friend of mine got into the seat or the passenger seat and
(08:20):
looked over.
And when I went to phones because it didn't connect my phone right off your phone, it
said Connie's phone.
And they're like, Connie's phone's even attached to your truck.
What does this mean?
Were you driving by my house?
No, no, it was just showing the phones that had...
Just remember how that would happen.
Yes.
It was showing the phones that had connected to my truck.
I guess it makes a special relationship when you let somebody connect their phone to your
(08:42):
car.
I don't know.
That's weird.
Oh, okay.
Got it.
Interesting.
But yeah.
And let me start with the benefits for me.
For me, once again, I had been divorced a little while.
I was dating.
We'll get into a dating series, hopefully in season two, and we can talk about a bunch
(09:04):
of fun stuff there.
But as I'm navigating dating and once again, my house and my kid and all of this stuff
that I felt like was on me, I needed somebody to bounce a lot of ideas off of.
And I had a lot of guy friends, and please don't get me wrong, they are great, but guys
are guys.
(09:27):
We don't necessarily understand the opposite sex a lot of times, especially in the dating.
So I just remember, Connie, I would come back from a date or I'd come back from something
and I would go, what the hell, Connie?
What am I doing wrong?
Or what does she mean by this?
Or what the hell is going on?
And you could explain it better than anybody could.
(09:47):
That was huge for me.
Right.
I think that was a huge part for both of us.
We were at the same place in our life.
We were both...
Rob had been passed away for a little over a year when you and I connected, I believe.
Yeah.
And the story for me was, my therapist said, you have to start dating.
(10:12):
And I was like, hell no.
But when I finally started dating, it was really nice to have somebody of the opposite
sex to bounce things off of.
Oh, one of my...
Oh, go ahead.
Sorry.
No, go ahead.
I was going to say, it also gave me so much confidence as a woman to stand up for myself
(10:34):
and create boundaries because I had this friend that was a male who was like, well, that's
not right.
Why is he treating you like that?
Or that's not very respectful, Connie.
And I went, I didn't think it was either, but I just kind of thought guys were like
that.
And the reality is, is that it was not true.
You demanded a higher ethic from people than I think a lot of women do, even though they
(11:03):
know they deserve it.
And so it was easy for me to be like, oh, he was a complete jerk.
And you're like, yep, he was.
And hearing it from somebody of the same sex was so nice.
So my favorite, favorite part was in the beginning, I do remember when your therapist said, you
need to start dating and you come to me and you're like, they want me to date, you know,
(11:26):
online dating, all the profiles is a big thing.
Two things I remember that was so fun to me.
I'm helping you on one of the sites, create the profile.
And I'm like, we're done.
Are you good with it?
And you're like, yes.
And I hit submit or launch.
And you're like, what?
You submitted that?
And you were, I could see the, or I could hear the anxiety.
(11:48):
You're like, holy shit.
I'm going to have to start dealing with this now, which was fun.
And the second one is when you were trying to, you know, it's funny because I was, I
think another podcast I was listening to was talking about online dating.
They call it window shopping.
And when you were window shopping, you know, left and right, occasionally you'd call me
and you're like, what do you think about this person?
(12:10):
And I remember trying me and I think your son tried to get you to go down the path of
a guy named Wayne.
And you went ahead, reached out to him.
And of course he was, he was a crazy lunatic of some sort.
And it was so fun because I, I felt like I helped you to see the lighter side of dating,
(12:31):
I guess.
You did.
It was you and Philip did some of the funniest stuff.
You're like, okay.
I would send you like, put this in the text and send this to him.
And Philip would be like, yeah, mom and do this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that was kind of funny, but, but having a male friend.
So I've always had male friends.
(12:54):
So starting pretty early.
Yeah.
Starting pretty early, I guess, seventh grade next door was a family of boys and where I
was close with all of them, there was one in particular I was very close with and being,
being a preteen, I guess, being a preteen, I started learning that my image of boys and
(13:22):
what society or what TV was telling teenage girls about boys was not actually true.
Like the boys I was around, they were fun.
They were all boy, but they were respectful to me.
They were like brothers.
They kept an eye out for me.
And to this day, I'm still very close to those boys.
(13:44):
But I also learned that it was easier to talk to boys a lot of times because they weren't
offended as easily.
And I'm not an offensive person, but sometimes to tiptoe or to, you know, around certain
subjects that might be tough with girls, you have to be a little more sensitive.
(14:06):
Guys, it's not quite the same.
And so I really enjoyed that aspect of my friendships.
And then when I got married, I kind of lost all my guy friends.
And that was just because my husband was my friend.
Sure.
You know, he was...
(14:27):
It was that season of your life, really.
I mean, yeah.
I don't know that he would have been really receptive to me having a very, very, very
close guy friend.
I think he was fine with my friendship with the boys from next door because he knew it
was like a brother-sister friendship.
(14:49):
But when he passed away, it was just, you know, something that was easy for me to transition
to.
I mean, don't get me wrong.
I am a girl's girl.
I have probably half a dozen girls that I absolutely would go to war with.
(15:10):
Will protect them.
They will protect me.
So it's not like I gravitate towards guys, but guys' friendships are much easier in a
lot of respects.
So when you and I met, that happened to be the case.
It was just a lot easier because I didn't have to tiptoe around anything.
(15:32):
And you know, we never even went down the path of should we date?
It never was like that.
It was really just a great friendship from the beginning.
And that's where I think it confused the friends I was with because everybody's like, oh, you're
dating Honey.
When are you guys going to start dating?
Is she not ready?
You know, all this stuff.
And I'm like, no, you don't understand.
This is different.
(15:53):
And you know, I don't know if it's like getting special secrets from the other side by knowing
you.
But what's funny is that's what it feels like.
It does because I can come to you and say, I don't understand this.
Or I can come to you.
Perfect example is whenever we was talking about proposing to Ellen, I'm like, hey, this
is what I'm thinking.
(16:14):
I'm going to do this.
And you're like, holy shit.
Don't you do that.
Now, if I would have went to a guy, we would have probably been going down that path.
And it was probably pretty shitty path to go down.
But I promise you, from my view, I am a much more well-rounded person because of this.
(16:34):
And that's the truth.
Well, I am glad to hear that.
But I think it's just women and men, I don't believe they cannot be friends.
You know, we as a society have kind of made that a thing.
And so what do you think it takes?
You and I have this beautiful friendship.
(16:56):
But what do you think it takes to defy those societal expectations of men and women friendships?
You know, for me, it's easier now.
So you know, before, it would have been a challenge.
(17:17):
Whenever I was married, it would have been a challenge to have had a female friend.
It really would have been.
And it was just the relationship.
It was just, I don't know, you know, from being 19 and growing up with that person,
it's similar to what you said with your, the husband that passed away, Rob.
You know, when you get into a relationship and you never have any friends that are the
(17:40):
opposite sex and all at once you bring one in, I think that feels very wrong to the other
person if you're not careful.
And I understand that aspect.
I do.
I am lucky because the season in life I'm in, you know, we got divorced and even before,
and right now if I found another friend, I honestly have three or four different friends
(18:00):
that are girls that Ellen is completely fine with.
But two things for me is that was one of the things that was in my, I told you I had an
Excel sheet on what I needed out of a relationship.
And one of them was being okay with a relationship with, you know, me having a friend that's
a woman.
(18:21):
And she absolutely is.
But what made it easier, I think either way it would have been okay.
What's really made it easier is you guys connect now.
Maybe I know not near as much as me and you, Connie, are talking, but I know for a fact
you Margot Polo her and she does back and forth even when she's on the road and stuff.
And she loves it.
And she tells me, you know, what's, do you know what's going on in Connie's?
(18:45):
And it's a shock to me that sometimes she'll tell me something and I'm like, what?
I had no freaking idea.
I talked to Connie every day.
But it's just, I think it's become healthy and easy because of that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think that's, that's one aspect of being able to be friends past society is that our
(19:07):
significant others are okay with it.
Because Jeff loves you.
I mean, you were, you married us.
Yeah.
And you know what I love about what you do with Jeff and this is part of that.
Not making anything a secret, not making it feel that it's wrong.
I can call Connie on a Wednesday at 10 o'clock and she'll answer the phone in the car and
(19:32):
it's throughout the car.
And I'm talking to Jeff and Connie.
She's not like, Oh, this is Scott.
I better get it on my phone and not let it go.
You know what I mean?
It is just, that's, that's been our whole, our whole relationship is, you know, it's,
there is nothing to hide and there never will be anything to hide.
I think that's what makes our significant others okay with the relationship.
(19:54):
I think for me, having a time period in my life.
So when I was first married, we were young, you know, we still have all the insecurities.
We have, you know, all the young brain crap is the only way I know how to put it.
(20:20):
And when something, when you go through a huge transition, divorce, death, anything
like that, and you find a friend and you realize how important that friendship is, you're not
willing to let go of those things.
And that is where, just like you said, my spreadsheet said, I have to have, I get to
(20:41):
have girlfriends.
Yes.
Same for me.
I, if I found a man who was jealous or was like, no, you're not going to be friends with
that person.
I would have been like, okay, well, you're adorable.
It's just not going to work, you know?
But on the other hand, if I thought that, let's say you had made the moves on me and
(21:04):
my significant other side, then I would understand.
So there's got to be a real sense of security, trust, boundaries.
And I think we do that perfectly.
But I also think, and it may be because of the point in time, the season in our life
we're at, the relationships that we started at our age are, we chose someone at our age
(21:31):
instead of having someone since 18 or 19.
So I think there's this, and I'm going to probably word it improperly, but there's this
level of trust that I have with Ellen and you have with Jeff that I don't know a lot
of people have.
And the reason is because when I brought her into my world and had a relationship, you
(21:55):
were already there and I brought you with me, along with some other friends, and she
became friends with you, right now I could even go out and say, hey, you know what?
I'm going to go run with someone that's a female down here that's going to make me a
better runner and blah, blah, blah, blah.
She would have no problem because she has the confidence that I've not ever had in any
(22:18):
other relationship.
And confidence probably isn't, it's the trust.
There is nothing in there.
Also, and you said this Connie, it's funny because we talked about this beforehand, and
this is another thing I love about you and the way you hold yourself in life in a sense.
You said, you know, that you honestly, if you ever seen me or would see me go out and
(22:43):
do something that's inappropriate, you would come to me and say, hey, are you telling Ellen
or am I?
Because this isn't right.
Absolutely.
You're going to hold me to that too.
Yeah.
There's just a foundation in the world of respect and my theory is if you stand on that
foundation, you're not going to go wrong no matter what happens.
(23:05):
Sometimes it's hard, but honesty, respect, creating boundaries, I'm huge into that.
And so I would do that for Ellen if you were screwing up and I would do that for you if
Ellen were screwing up.
And I would expect the same of you.
Absolutely.
With me and Jeff.
And I think that's the thing that maintains the male-female friendship is that we know
(23:32):
our place.
You know, if at some point Ellen said to you, I'm really uncomfortable with your and Connie's
relationship and it is making me not want to be in this relationship, but I love you.
If you called me and said, Connie, I can't do this anymore, I would be like, absolutely.
I respect that.
I respect your relationship with her.
(23:52):
You go.
Yeah, of course.
And I would do the same, man, that would be tough and it would take some discussion, let's
be honest.
We might be a little codependent, but that's okay.
Yeah, probably a lot.
So let's jump over what's in and I know we need to probably see it outside of our view,
(24:13):
but what do you think the biggest challenges are in having a relationship like this today?
Ooh, jealousy for girls.
Really?
Yeah.
So I told you about, you know, the young relationship I had with boys and I learned at a young age
that girls can be very, very jealous where my boyfriends weren't jealous of the relationship
(24:40):
I had with those boys, but their girlfriends were jealous of the relationship those boys
had with me.
So you think it's different for a girl than a guy, woman, man?
From my experience, I would say yes.
And even you and I have talked about this and you didn't see it, but I feel like I felt
(25:01):
it.
You had dated and there was somebody that you liked and I was around her and there was
a chill in the air every time I was around.
Interesting.
And she even knew I was dating Jeff at the time, but there was a big chill in the air.
And so I could just feel it.
(25:23):
And I am, you know how I feel about my own intuition.
I trust it like nobody's business.
And I was just like, oh, and I didn't know as an adult, I didn't know how to handle it
because I want my friend to be happy.
I always want to be in your life, but if you and this woman would have gotten together,
I don't think I could have been.
I don't think she would have allowed that eventually.
(25:45):
Oh, wow.
And I didn't see it from my side, of course.
You probably protected me in a sense by not telling me all that.
Interesting.
What do you think it is from a guy's standpoint?
Okay, so we could go two different directions.
The biggest challenge as a guy, we get put in situations sometimes that we need to be
(26:07):
able to be completely honest with you.
Allow us to do that.
And I think it's easier for women to come and tell men than it is men to tell women.
And let me back up and explain that a little bit more.
And I think I did explain it to you in a sense before we did the episode.
But you know, if I go over and I find a running group that I'm going to go run with and one
(26:31):
time I go over there and the only people that show up are two females that show up, who
cares what age, I don't even know.
And I run with just two females in that group and we go run our regular training run.
Allow me to come home and tell you that.
And you know, if there's some challenges, okay, we can talk through it.
(26:51):
But you know, from my past experiences, even dating, not just being married, and that's
why I said I have to be able to be friends with women, is because I have experienced
where I would go run with two females or whatever that would look like.
And I was told that was inappropriate or it didn't feel right to them.
(27:12):
And it always made me feel bad.
But if you're not careful, what ends up happening is whenever you go back to that running center
and two girls show up again, two things are going to happen.
I'm either not going to do it or I'm going to do it and not tell you.
And I promise you nothing was going on.
But it makes it awkward on the guy because it could be anything like that.
(27:34):
I mean, I could go to a brewery and I could go by myself.
I went to one last night.
And what if what if a girl come up and start talking to me and sat down at the table, and
it was someone that I've known for a long time, I need to be able to tell that my person
that the next day and not be concerned about what they think or that I shouldn't have done
that because that the societal image that I can't talk to another female or I can't
(27:59):
do this or that is utter bullshit and it needs to stop.
I absolutely agree with that.
And that's the thing.
I think to have complete freedom with your spouse or with your significant other.
Number one, it allows you to love them more.
(28:21):
But it also allows them to know you're always going to be trustworthy because you don't
have to hide things from them.
And I don't know where this whole thought process of guys are always going to cheat
or be shitty to women.
I don't I don't run into a lot of guys who are like that.
You know, even in dating, you and I have talked about this and I was always like, there were
(28:45):
some silly things that guys would do.
But at no time did I like run into just a completely shitty guy.
And part of that, let me just I'll preface this.
Part of it was I was very good in standing my ground and standing with my boundaries.
(29:09):
But even in that, when I would immediately like be turned off by a guy, it wasn't maybe
because they were crappy to me.
It could have been something else.
So I don't know where guys turn into the bad guy.
Well, I want to go with that for a second.
I want to paint another picture.
Tell me I'm wrong.
Which you will.
(29:32):
Let's say there is a guy that's going to cheat.
It just happens.
Do you really think that his mindset or being something wrong in a relationship that makes
him cheat?
It could be him.
I'm not saying it's the whole relationship.
Do you think that that's going to change because he goes and runs with a girl or talks to someone
(29:52):
or no, it doesn't.
That interaction with the person is not going to be the reason that he ends up cheating.
If he's going to cheat, he's going to cheat.
It has nothing to do with he ended up running with somebody at the running clinic here in
the town or he started talking to somebody that worked at the brewery.
(30:16):
It's just in my opinion, if a guy's going to cheat, he's going to cheat.
We shouldn't be nitpicking these very little things that's causing it because that is not
the cause.
That's not the root cause because someone started talking to him.
Right.
I would-
Fix what's up above that, not nitpick the little issue because I had a conversation
(30:40):
about something.
Right.
Right.
That's my opinion.
I agree completely with that.
I think our first defense is that we are completely honest with our significant other.
We put them above anything and everything else and we allow them to ask any question
that they need to of our friendship.
(31:02):
Our two don't actually have to ask questions because they're pretty much in the friendship.
They are.
I mean, the reality is we can all sit down and hang out and nobody's hearing very much
new information.
We had to get to that point.
We had to find those people who were willing to be open to that.
I'm going to go a little bit deeper and finding that person that has that trust and being
(31:26):
able to be trustworthy, I understand it doesn't take much for that to go away in a relationship,
that trust.
But I have an individual that I do a lot of talking about running because she actually
lives on the East Coast and I live here.
We talked about coming together this year to do a half marathon because of some medical
(31:47):
things that come up.
I said, I can't do it now, but that's the only reason.
But from day one, we've talked back and forth about running and doing all this stuff.
Occasionally she would come to town for work and we would go run.
Ellen knows all about this and met her once or twice, maybe twice, I don't know.
(32:09):
They've talked and they had a great conversation.
Outside of that though, Ellen's like, go do your thing.
It doesn't bother her in the least.
But I also want to say that you have to talk to that person because not every person's
going to be that way.
You said it perfectly and in one of our episodes before this, we talked about seats on the
bus, if you remember, switching seats around and everything.
(32:32):
Your significant other has to be in the passenger seat.
They have to be able to explain concerns.
They have to be able to voice their opinion and you have to listen to it and you have
to be okay coming up with a solution that's good for you and them both to fix that.
If that is okay, I won't fly anywhere and be able, whatever that is, I think you can
(32:54):
still come up with a solution that fits it.
But you have to allow them to have that.
That's the bigger issue.
I've heard you and Ellen both say the same statement, oh, he'll talk to anybody.
Oh, she'll talk to anybody.
You both know that about the other person and I think that's the other part of this
is for you and I to have a friendship and for you to have friendship with other women,
(33:20):
your most important person has to know you well.
And they have to know they're the most important.
Exactly.
So I think that's kind of a huge part of this too is I guess ultimately as we're explaining
all of this, the way we've kept our friendship is we have put our significant other first.
(33:41):
They have known their first.
They know every ounce of us.
They know every ounce of our friendship even and they're okay with it and we keep it that
way.
We are 100% open and honest.
So did Jeff ever question and just because I don't know I've ever asked this, I mean,
we've been close from the very beginning when you and Jeff started dating.
(34:04):
Did he ever question our relationship?
No, I think the only time that he ever mentioned anything to me, this is the funniest thing,
was on my birthday at Jim's.
And I remember that day.
No, you do not.
Sort of.
And that is what's so funny is because Jeff looked at me and he goes, man, when Scott
(34:28):
gets drunk, he gets a little friendly maybe because he was watching you not just with
me with everyone.
I'm just a friendly guy.
We were laughing so hard about that.
That's the only thing he's ever said.
And if you remember, he had only been in our life seven months.
So now he is seen every, I mean, you know, almost three years later, he's like, yeah,
(34:54):
okay, that's normal.
That's the, but he didn't question the friendship.
I think if he would have questioned it, he would have been like somebody else is going
to marry us.
So yeah, well, that's true, I guess.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
Ellen?
No, not at all.
I mean, Ellen, from day one, almost Ellen's loved you to death because you guys, it was
(35:15):
so easy on my side because you guys hit it off as friends and she's great with people.
And easy.
So easy.
I mean, we went down to the lake once with another friends of ours and she still talks
back and forth with two people from down there that lives in Springfield.
I don't even know who they are.
And I've probably been down there a dozen times and she went once.
(35:37):
And you know, once again, going back to, I knew what I needed my next relationship.
I needed trust.
I needed to be able to, to be able to have the male female relationship like this as
friends and be okay with it.
And I could not have asked for anybody that's any better at that.
So let's talk about, because we've gotten off onto our significant others, because the
(35:59):
reality is, is they have been amazing in allowing us our friendship.
Yes.
But what do you get out of the friendship?
What do I get out of the friendship today?
Well, first of all, I mean, we wouldn't have this, we wouldn't have this podcast if we
didn't have the friendship.
What I do like is even, even though you're not in the tech industry, and I am, I can
(36:24):
talk to you about business.
I can talk to you about challenges.
I can talk to you about those types of things.
And once again, I get a different view from you than I do guys typically.
And it's neat.
It's neat to have that.
And if I'm going to try and come up with something unique for Ellen, you know Ellen well enough
(36:45):
that I can get a female's perspective, Hey, what about this?
You know, what if I get this?
You know, all of all of that stuff helps when you've got a, when I've got someone that's
a woman that I can talk to.
And, and I hate that a lot of people don't have that.
Yeah, I agree with that.
I think it's something that's missing, especially in women's lives.
(37:08):
Even when I went and picked out a ring.
I have no idea what type of ring.
So I started messaging one of her best friends and you know, I never in my head once ever
thought it was inappropriate that I'm messing with, of course I'm messaging about a ring
for Ellen, but you know, in the relationship I am with Ellen, I don't even think about
(37:30):
that just because it's not a subject that we are worried about today.
Now this could change a month from now.
I don't know, but we, we have this level of trust that at any point in time, she wants
to see my phone.
I want to see it.
I mean, there's never, never anything inappropriate and I don't think there's any worries and
it just makes life easier.
Right.
(37:50):
And here's the thing when you and I have a conversation, if I say something to you, normally
what ends up happening is I'm on Marco Polo talking to Ellen and then I'm like, oh, by
the way, I told Scott this and cause pretty much I need her to back me.
Let's face it, you know, I don't want to be the only one on this team, but yeah, she'll
(38:12):
know what we usually talk about too.
You know what I mean?
It's not like we have anything back.
And do you know how nice it is for me as a guy at any point in time, Connie, I would
reach out to you or you and Jeff either one, but I could just reach out to you and say,
Hey, Connie, Wednesday, you got time for lunch.
And I don't have to worry about people thinking things.
(38:32):
Yeah.
Yep.
I, and, and I'll tell you one place that I had worked at one time, there were some individuals
at that work that did not believe that none of that should happen.
There shouldn't be no interaction between male and females at that.
And it's just, it's weird.
That's not the way society should be set up in my opinion.
Right.
And we all know that there are people who have overstepped those boundaries.
(38:54):
Well that's going to happen with or without you having friendships with other sex.
Well because that's sometimes where people are.
I think again, the benefits of having a friend of the opposite sex for me is that I don't
have to sugarcoat things.
Again, I always try and respect, be respectful, but I don't have to sugarcoat things with
(39:17):
you.
And there is something else that you understand that a lot of women don't understand.
So if you and I are in a conversation and I start feeling emotional about it, what do
I do?
Oh yes, you tell me, I need to get off the phone.
I want to sit on this for a little while.
Yeah.
(39:38):
You understand that.
It doesn't drive you crazy where as a woman we go, oh crap, what did we do wrong?
What's this?
What's that?
What's the other?
What's da da da da da?
And sometimes it gets the best of us and we'll start bugging that person.
Where for me, the reason I do that is because I grew up in a family where emotions ruled.
(40:05):
And I believe that decisions made purely on emotion can be really, really detrimental.
And so when I feel emotions coming on, I always want to back out of it and go to a logical
place instead of staying in that emotional place.
And you allow that.
And that way our friendship, I can take a break for a moment and come back and say,
(40:25):
hey, okay, so our conversation, let's resume it.
This is how I was feeling.
But then I started thinking and this is that.
And you go, okay, great.
Jeff does the same thing with me from a relationship standpoint.
Sure.
But friendships a lot of times don't allow those things to happen and you did.
(40:45):
And that has been huge for me to be able to be myself and back out of something and come
back and revisit it.
And it's okay.
I remember one of the instances because I was driving to a dinner somewhere and we were
on the phone.
I was in my truck and I sort of remember what we were talking about.
But the difference in our friendship and honestly, I know I probably wouldn't challenge a guy
(41:09):
as much as I did you.
And the reason is, it's not that I do think of you as a sister in a sense, but it's even
more than that.
I know what you deserve.
I know what you shouldn't have to put up with.
And I remember talking to you about something and it may have been something that happened
previously.
And I just basically, I remember saying, why in the hell did you let that happen?
(41:31):
And I was challenging you harder than I probably would any other person.
And that's when you said, okay, I need to get off the phone.
I need to sit on this a while.
But the reason you weren't screaming at me, because two guys, a lot of times if you challenge
to a certain point, that's when they start fist fighting or cussing each other or you
know what I mean?
Because I remember that and if it would have been a guy at that point, we probably wouldn't
(41:55):
have been friends after that.
But you allowed me to express what I thought you needed and it wasn't something you wanted
to hear at that time.
But you were okay by the next day you said, you know what, you were right, but you're
not so an asshole and I said, yes, I am.
And we talked through it.
Right.
And I think that's the difference.
(42:15):
And maybe it is the difference between two males and two females because you said if
that had been another male, it could have gotten emotional where I know with another
female it would have gotten emotional.
And so I think maybe, you know, it's just a friendship ourselves.
I don't know.
Now as we're sitting here going through this, I'm like male and female relationships, how
do you make them happen?
(42:37):
And sometimes it's just finding a person that you can be completely honest, vulnerable and
open with and say whatever it is you need and still be over respectful.
Let's jump into the next subject.
And I think this is the last one that we've got.
But how do we maintain this?
Are we going to maintain this until we get old?
(42:58):
Well, I would hope so.
You know, and I sit here and I think about it and I think, you know, there's a lot of
friendships that ebb and flow and that's okay.
It's that bus scenario where you're driving the bus and people switch seats.
And I just as far as maintaining, I don't know how we can't because you and I, again,
(43:19):
a little codependent in the fact that we have to talk to each other every day, even if it's
something like sending you a stupid meme.
You know, we've got days where we don't actually talk.
But I'm like, oh, this is funny, Scott would think this was hilarious.
It could be something as simple as that.
But I think just always being honest and open and respectful to our spouses is the way we'll
(43:47):
maintain our friendship.
You know, I would I'm trying to think of how to put this.
You really can't I can't have a relationship or I'm sorry, I can't have a conversation
with you that I wouldn't feel okay talking to Ellen about.
Yes, I think that's that's key.
You can't have a conversation that you wouldn't have with or wouldn't tell her about.
(44:12):
I can't have that.
Correct.
And I would never put you in that position.
Yes, I love that.
I love that.
I think that's kind of key.
And like I said before, it's it's cool to me because I can call you and you'll be in
the car and you'll put on speaker and next thing I know it's me you and Jeff all talking
about something.
It's that open that easy.
(44:33):
There's nothing that's hidden whatsoever in it.
And I just think it makes it easier.
And for me, I can tell you I get a whole nother side and view of the world that I don't get
as a guy.
Same here.
I get the guys point of view.
It's like you said, it's like we tell each other or we find out the secret of the like
(44:54):
I find out the secret of the male human their thought process when I talk to you and you
find out the female process.
And that's a secret to men.
You know, we seem to bridge that gap when we talk to each other.
All right.
I think we've I think we've went as far as we can go with this.
So you think you want to close it up now, Connie?
(45:16):
Well, I think we can close it up.
So if you were planning or if you have friendships of the opposite sex, I would actually encourage
you to have a friendship of the opposite sex if you are comfortable or if you are making
your spouse comfortable enough, because it has enriched my life immensely.
(45:36):
And I believe it's enriched your life immensely, too.
And my hope is what you get out of this is that your first priority is your significant
other, your spouse, your children.
Your second priority is bountiful friendships, whether they be opposite sex or just, you
know, the same sex.
(45:57):
But I love having the opposite sex as a friendship because I do learn something different.
I'm going to add one thing to that.
You know, for me being friends with you, my first concern is always going to be Ellen
or my first thing that I have to respect.
The second thing is Jeff and then you.
(46:17):
And that's true, because in order for me to stay friends with you, I have to make sure
Jeff's OK, too.
Not just not just Ellen, because Ellen's only one side of it.
So I have to make sure that I do that.
And you know, that may take a little more effort and it probably does.
But I can tell you right now, it in my opinion is so much worth it.
(46:38):
We've been able to have conversations I would have never had.
I'm a much more well rounded person.
I probably know shit about women I shouldn't know.
And some that I probably should have known way before now.
And that's all because of you, Connie.
Absolutely.
I agree with that.
All right.
And with that, I want to say thank you so much, Connie, for doing a complete season
(46:59):
of this podcast with me.
I think it's been awesome.
It's been a huge learning experience for me.
I hope it has been for you.
But I'm so excited to pick up next season, figure out what we're going to do and the
direction we're going to go.
I am excited about that as well.
So hopefully our listeners tune in to next season as well as this season.
(47:20):
If you haven't heard any of the other podcasts, go back and listen to them.
We have some beautiful stories, some beautiful guests, and we will see you next season.
Okay, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Our Life Beyond.
We really hope that you found our discussion insightful and inspiring or at least brought
(47:41):
a smile to your day.
If you did enjoy this episode, please consider subscribing to the podcast on your favorite
platform and leave us a review.
For more information, resources, or show notes, visit our website at ourlifebeyond.com.
You can also follow us on social media.
Search for us on Facebook at Our Life Beyond.
We would love to hear from you, our listeners, so feel free to reach out with your questions,
(48:05):
comments, or suggestions through our Contact Us page at ourlifebeyond.com or on social
media.
And once again, thank you for joining us on this journey.
Till next time, remember, life beyond any challenge is possible and we're here to navigate
it with you.
Stay strong, stay positive, and keep moving forward.
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